1 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 1: Welcome to it could happen here talk podcast yep, I 2 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:12,239 Speaker 1: could say it a podcast. That's what we're doing, and 3 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:15,600 Speaker 1: it's about it's about how things are kinda kind of 4 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 1: kind of falling apart sometimes, or at least it feels 5 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 1: like it, and I don't know, maybe we can do 6 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:23,240 Speaker 1: some things to help make it better, like what happened 7 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: recently in terms of forests. So, hey, a good news episode. 8 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 1: Whoa rare rare, rare episode drop for us? Uh, we 9 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 1: got some good news. So I'm gonna be talking with Sam, 10 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:39,599 Speaker 1: who was on a previous episode discussing a forest defense, 11 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:43,920 Speaker 1: about an update on on all of the things that 12 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:47,520 Speaker 1: we were talking about a few weeks ago. Um, So yeah, 13 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: I think we can. We can pretty much get into 14 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:51,160 Speaker 1: it and then then we'll talk about some other stuff 15 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 1: around kind of forests in general. So hello, Sam, Thank 16 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 1: thank you for joining me again to talk about trees, 17 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: one of one of our favorite topics. Hello, my pleasure always. So. 18 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:07,400 Speaker 1: I think it was like a day or two after 19 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 1: we drafted the episode or something, or I think I 20 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 1: think it was. Actually it was maybe maybe even like 21 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 1: right like right before, um, we got some extra extra 22 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:19,400 Speaker 1: news about all about the post about the postfire logging 23 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 1: um near the bright Bush Watershed. Um, yeah, what happened there? Yeah? Yeah, 24 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 1: it was pretty wild. Actually, it was really serendipitous timing too. UM. 25 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:34,919 Speaker 1: We as I think we mentioned in the last podcast, 26 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 1: we were awaiting the first hearing for the court case. Essentially, 27 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:42,039 Speaker 1: you know, we believed that the plan to log in 28 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 1: that area for myriad reasons was not only unethical but 29 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 1: also illegal. Um. And so it was going to court 30 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 1: and we were awaiting a hearing that happened on December three, Friday. 31 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 1: And typically the judge does not rule from the bench 32 00:01:57,240 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 1: in these sorts of hearings, and so we did not 33 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 1: expect the decision on that day. UM. But sure enough, 34 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 1: the judge felt uh strongly enough about this case and 35 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:08,360 Speaker 1: sure enough about her decision that she did roll from 36 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:12,239 Speaker 1: the bench and ruled in our favor. And so yeah, victories. UM. 37 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: Now we have um a preliminary injunction in place, meaning 38 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: that no logging can happen there, um at least until 39 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 1: this uh timber sale has its real day in court, 40 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 1: or until the four Service just drops this Shenanigan entirely, 41 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:30,399 Speaker 1: which hopefully they will do. But we'll see. Yeah, so 42 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 1: they they blocked, they blocked the posts part logging and 43 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 1: the the the basically started start starting to clear cut 44 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:41,959 Speaker 1: these areas without without actual like public and puting, without 45 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:44,920 Speaker 1: actually going through the process. As flawed as the process, 46 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 1: maybe they were just skipping it entirely. So that that 47 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 1: was that was that was blocked by this, by by 48 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 1: this legal case. Um what was I guess? Yeah, well 49 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:56,640 Speaker 1: what was what was the uh? What what was what? 50 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 1: What was the reaction like in in in the room 51 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:05,800 Speaker 1: and in the very US signal chats this happened, Yeah, 52 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 1: in the ether spheres, Um, the reaction was super awesome. 53 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:13,520 Speaker 1: I mean, so many people love this place and that 54 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 1: was kind of the whole point of what we were 55 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 1: trying to do when we did the direct action out 56 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 1: there a number of weeks ago. It was just demonstrate 57 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 1: how many people love this place and how the four 58 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 1: Service wasn't going to get away with what they're planning 59 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:29,520 Speaker 1: to do. Um, because people, as we promised, would be 60 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:31,839 Speaker 1: back if they tried to log it and move forward 61 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: without logging, which, as you pointed out, and as we 62 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 1: said last time, was super sketchy, not only because it 63 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 1: was a terrible plan that they were planning to do 64 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 1: um in this beloved for us, but also because it 65 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 1: was behind locked gates that in the public wasn't allowed 66 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 1: into and so UM, it was just this you know, 67 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 1: travesty that was about to happen. And when we found 68 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 1: out UM, and when we heard the judges incredibly strong ruling, UM, 69 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 1: we you know, were absolutely overjoyed. UM. The news spread, 70 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 1: you know, like wild fire, excuse the pun it do 71 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: it um, and just you know, all the signal threads 72 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 1: were popping. People were putting it on Twitter. People were 73 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 1: reposting the sexy photos of the blockade with the giant 74 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 1: slash pile and the fire truck and the band on 75 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 1: top of the fire truck. And I just wish that 76 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:19,240 Speaker 1: we all could have hung out again and had another 77 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: dance party because it was the best that doesn't incredibly 78 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:27,719 Speaker 1: incredibly rad UM was was like your this is this 79 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 1: is this is something I don't I don't don't actually know, 80 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:32,279 Speaker 1: but I was like it was like the documentation that 81 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:34,840 Speaker 1: was taking place by by going to these places and 82 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:37,280 Speaker 1: showing hey, this is where they're cutting. Was that brought 83 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 1: up in the court case in terms of like, hey, 84 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:43,360 Speaker 1: this is we actually went and saw what's actually happening. 85 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 1: So it was was that type of evidence used and 86 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 1: did it in your mind like um um uh kind 87 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 1: of be a small part of like the result of 88 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 1: the ruling. Yeah, it definitely was. And that is such 89 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 1: an important point and I really hope that everyone who's 90 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 1: listening can just like put that in their minds for later. 91 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 1: How important it is for people to be UM field 92 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 1: surveying or sometimes we call it ground truth thing um 93 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:12,719 Speaker 1: these places and actually collecting documentation photographic evidence. UM. A 94 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:15,280 Speaker 1: lot of folks do kind of like we call community 95 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 1: surveying and collect um some site specific um kind of 96 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 1: like uh, community science sort of stuff. UM. But all 97 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 1: of that was used in court and it was super awesome. UM. 98 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 1: I actually was one of the standing declarence, so I 99 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:29,280 Speaker 1: got to submit a lot of evidence from my many 100 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 1: years of traveling that place. UM, and that all of 101 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 1: that was referenced in court. So so so important. UM. 102 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 1: Even you know, when the forest services essentially trying to 103 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 1: kick everyone out and keep everyone out of these places, 104 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 1: it's really important to go um and see them anyways. Obviously, 105 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 1: you know, everyone needs to consider how they do that 106 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 1: and their own security and safety. UM. And it's becoming difficult. Um, 107 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 1: but certainly putting eyes on threatened places is one of 108 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:00,080 Speaker 1: the best tools we have to save them. Yeah. And 109 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 1: I just think that's really important to really focus on 110 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 1: that as like a thing because like, yeah, stuff that 111 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:11,599 Speaker 1: people did actually had an impact on this not happening 112 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 1: right now. Um. And yeah, but by going out there 113 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:18,719 Speaker 1: and documenting and then talking about it, um, it has 114 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: like an actual like causal relation, which is very hard 115 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:28,039 Speaker 1: to It's it's it's hard to get direct causal stuff 116 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 1: to happen in like the general umbrella of activism. Um. 117 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:34,920 Speaker 1: And it's I think it's it's just really exciting that 118 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:38,920 Speaker 1: that that this happened. Yeah, that's so true. It does 119 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:41,920 Speaker 1: feel in the general umbrellaive activism really hard to point 120 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 1: to things that we do that are actually making an effect, 121 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 1: and this is totally one of them. I mean, when 122 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 1: if and when this case does have its day in court, um, 123 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:56,040 Speaker 1: you know, outside of the preliminary injunction itself. UM, I 124 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 1: am sure that so much of that evidence from all 125 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 1: the folks who've been traveling there, um and documenting it 126 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 1: will be used. We documented, you know, so many green 127 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 1: living trees and places the Forest Service that were dead. Um. 128 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 1: You know, so many like unused roads in places the 129 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 1: Forest Service said they needed to log alongside these roads 130 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 1: because they're so traffic and they're posing a safety hazard. 131 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 1: And so it's basically like, you know, the best way 132 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: to expose their gas lighting and lies is to just 133 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 1: go document what's there. Yeah, because a big part of 134 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 1: their ability to do this is utilizing deception in terms 135 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 1: of like and and and utilizing like non information, like 136 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 1: they're just not talking about the stuff that's actually happening, 137 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 1: or they're doing like white lies to make it sound better. 138 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 1: So they're just they're they're lying about the type of 139 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 1: like um uh, the type of sales that they're doing 140 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 1: with these with these treets, and like how they're classifying 141 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 1: the trees that they're logging to like get it past 142 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: all of the loopholes. But they're not actually like that, 143 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 1: that's not actually reality. They're just changing the terms to 144 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:00,080 Speaker 1: make it fit what they want. So like as so 145 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 1: as soon as you start looking into this stuff, it 146 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 1: gets all it gets very sketchy because it is they're 147 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 1: just lying about a lot of this stuff. Like if 148 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 1: you're like listening and be like, oh, you know, be 149 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 1: these people just love trees, Like, yes, we do love trees, 150 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 1: but like the actual thing that's going on is like 151 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 1: they're lying about the types of damage that's being done, 152 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 1: they're lying about what areas this is happening in all 153 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 1: to just rack up more timber sales. Like that that 154 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 1: that is that that that is what's actually happening. Um. 155 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 1: And that's so so important to say, like loudly and clearly, 156 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:34,080 Speaker 1: because the Forest Service and other management agencies are experts 157 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:38,200 Speaker 1: in making the public feel dumb and wrong and misinformed. 158 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 1: And right now, even we sound a little wing nutty 159 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:45,800 Speaker 1: being like yeah, you know, but like let us be clear, 160 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 1: a federal judge agrees with us. Yeah, you know, like 161 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 1: we're not the ones who are wrong here, and I 162 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 1: think you're totally right. You know, they're using a mixture 163 00:08:55,440 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 1: of blatant lies, um, but also euphemisms like we on. 164 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:02,559 Speaker 1: They don't they don't use the word clear cut anymore. 165 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:05,960 Speaker 1: They're using all of these euphemisms, you know, regeneration, harvest, 166 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:09,199 Speaker 1: I ship you not a lot of and a lot 167 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:11,080 Speaker 1: of this stuff that they're deciding to do is like 168 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 1: not open to the public. You need to do, like 169 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 1: fully requests to to to actually learn what they're doing 170 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 1: because they don't talk about it like that. It is all. 171 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 1: It is all extremely sketchy. And yeah, like the fact 172 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:25,079 Speaker 1: that like a federal a federal judge agreed with like 173 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 1: green activists is not a sentence you here often so 174 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 1: like it's like yeah, like this is actually a thing, 175 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 1: and it's it's important to remember, like you are not 176 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: immune to propaganda, like all a lot of this stuff 177 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:41,080 Speaker 1: is uh is has people who want a lot of 178 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 1: money are vested in making people believe things about about 179 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:47,680 Speaker 1: about about like force management and all this kind of stuff. Um, yeah, 180 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 1: I know it may it may sound crazy when we're 181 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:53,720 Speaker 1: talking about you know, the secret Illuminati of the Force Service, 182 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 1: but like no, like it acts like it's it is. 183 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: It is a governmental organization. All governmental organizations are kind 184 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:02,920 Speaker 1: of sketch, especially when their sole purpose is to one 185 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:04,960 Speaker 1: of their purposes is to make money or assistant like 186 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:07,320 Speaker 1: sales of something like yeah, it's it's gonna have some 187 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:11,440 Speaker 1: sketchy stuff. Um. Absolutely, and also you know in the 188 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 1: realm of just like the propaganda machine. Um we you know, 189 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:19,200 Speaker 1: just the other day, Um, a hilarious response piece came 190 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 1: out from the Timber Industry and Organization called Federal Forest 191 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:26,679 Speaker 1: Resource Coalition, which is just a coalition of loggers. UM 192 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 1: put out this hilarious little mini video responding directly to 193 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 1: the line that we've been using in forest events, which 194 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 1: is worth more standing. Our forests are worth more standing, 195 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 1: And they put out a hilarious response that is essentially 196 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 1: you know, pushing this timber sale, this logging propaganda, saying well, actually, 197 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 1: our forests aren't worth anything standing after they've been burned, 198 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 1: and they're contributing to the climate crisis, and they're destructive, 199 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:52,679 Speaker 1: you know, and all these things, and so totally, I mean, 200 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:55,679 Speaker 1: even people who see it with their eyes can be 201 00:10:55,720 --> 00:11:00,559 Speaker 1: convinced by these voices that they're wrong because they're so good, 202 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:03,320 Speaker 1: so good at making us feel just like we're the 203 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:07,200 Speaker 1: wrong ones, but we're not. Yeah, in terms of like 204 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 1: this the secretive kind of decision making and stuff behind 205 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 1: the scenes, in terms of like the types of like 206 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 1: terms they are using to to you know, do like restoration, thinning, 207 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 1: um and all this stuff around around trying to like 208 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:23,080 Speaker 1: basically just just take as many trees from the Bright 209 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:26,679 Speaker 1: British Watershed as they can. I know. The judge said 210 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 1: that she was quote disappointed in the agency, uh for 211 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:37,559 Speaker 1: for all of their silly behind the scenes trench coat 212 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 1: meat in the dark alley way to pass off information 213 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: type of thing um, which is yeah, like so what 214 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 1: what what is? What is some of the other kind 215 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: of um stuff that the four Service and the related 216 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:53,440 Speaker 1: organizations were trying to we're trying to hide like what 217 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 1: like what what? What What? What? What? What was the stuff 218 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 1: that like came out um via this legal process that 219 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:00,079 Speaker 1: was like yeah, what was it was? The was so 220 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 1: a few of the actual things that they were that 221 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 1: they were trying to do that eventually like came to light. 222 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 1: M hmm. The major thing is that they were trying 223 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:15,199 Speaker 1: to get away with changing the logging contracts without doing 224 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 1: any additional environmental analysis or public engagement process. And so 225 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 1: there were before there were there was a plan to 226 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 1: do what they what we had fought them so hard 227 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 1: to get them to agree to do, which was not 228 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:34,200 Speaker 1: log a bunch of these this older stands protect tree. 229 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:36,080 Speaker 1: They had a diameter limit on trees that they were 230 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 1: going to log. So we basically like slapped their hands 231 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 1: off of all of these trees and finally were like, okay, 232 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 1: we won't sue you if you move forward with the 233 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 1: plan as stated, and it had very strong sideboards, and 234 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:50,920 Speaker 1: you know, even local folks were like, okay, go do this. 235 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:52,920 Speaker 1: And then the fires came through, and so what they 236 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 1: were trying to do was just change the plans. They 237 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 1: turned it all into clear cuts in the forest that 238 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:00,160 Speaker 1: we slapped their hands off of. And they were trying 239 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:02,320 Speaker 1: to argue that they didn't need to do any an 240 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 1: additional analysis and they didn't need to engage the public, 241 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 1: and even in court, you know, that's what they were arguing. Um, 242 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 1: They're they're doing some stupid magic math and you know, somersaults, 243 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 1: um to try and explain how they had already done 244 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 1: an analysis that accounted somehow for the fires that no 245 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 1: one could have ever predicted before. At ye. So the 246 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 1: judge was like just you know, she was just roundly like, 247 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 1: y'all couldn't have predicted. I like to give her, you know, 248 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 1: Southern accident, y'all, I couldn't have predicted, Judge Akins still 249 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:38,440 Speaker 1: the South. No, Uh, you couldn't have predicted. Uh, you 250 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:40,560 Speaker 1: know that the fires were going to burn through, and 251 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 1: so there's no way you could have done analysis for 252 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:44,839 Speaker 1: fire that you didn't know what's going to happen here 253 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 1: us silly little beasts. But she did talk to them, 254 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 1: you know, as if they were just naughty little children, 255 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 1: which I loved to hear. You know, the disappointed in 256 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 1: the Forest Service was a major move, and I think 257 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:57,680 Speaker 1: the other one that came up is just you know, 258 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 1: the Forest Service was arguing that they need need it 259 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 1: quote need to do this logging um, for restoration, for 260 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 1: economic recovery, um, and to prevent future wildfires from severely 261 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:12,480 Speaker 1: burning in the area. All of that to BS. Like. 262 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 1: One thing that the judge said that was super strong, 263 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 1: UM was that she sees and obviously I'm paraphrasing here, um, 264 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 1: but she she sees that the community loves this place. 265 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:27,720 Speaker 1: It's obvious that this is like a beloved place, and she, 266 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 1: you know, essentially understands that the forest is worth more standing. 267 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 1: She said that she wanted she thinks that the forest 268 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 1: needs an opportunity to recover from the fires. And so 269 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 1: basically just called the BS on the Forest Service for 270 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 1: their hilarious, you know, justifications for logging. All the We're 271 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:45,880 Speaker 1: gonna save the forest by logging. It is just not 272 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 1: it's not right, it's not accurate. In the judge agrees. Yeah, 273 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 1: I'm very very excited about about this ruling and what 274 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 1: it means for the future and at least at least 275 00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 1: at least postponing this until um if if if the 276 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 1: if the lawsuit is going going to go through, or 277 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 1: if or if they're just gonna drop this, which they 278 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 1: also very well, maybe they might decide to focus on 279 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 1: another part that is that they just don't tell anybody 280 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 1: about and start doing it there and then you know, 281 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 1: we'll we'll start we'll start this again. But for this 282 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 1: particular area, UM, that is that is very exciting, and yeah, 283 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: it is. It is rare for a federal judge to 284 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 1: agree with people on this topic. UM. And now I 285 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 1: want want to talk about a few other kind of 286 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 1: stuff around like forests, um and how and how these 287 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:32,360 Speaker 1: kind of types of things work. I didn't get an 288 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 1: interesting comment which I totally agree with in terms of 289 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 1: like how propaganda works in this department, um, and how 290 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 1: like how like logging towns operate, or how like towns 291 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 1: became logging towns, how like they're basically able to convince 292 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 1: local populations that logging is is like good because like yeah, 293 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 1: like they're they're gonna they're gonna move into this town. 294 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 1: They're gonna restore the town because they're gonna bring in 295 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 1: new money through like a logging industry. Um. And yeah, 296 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 1: this is a very like, very like a tipic coal move, 297 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 1: whether it be for like you know, coal mining, whether 298 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 1: it be for pipelines. In terms of like big companies 299 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 1: going into small towns to be like, hey, we can 300 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 1: promise you economic growth if you can like assist in 301 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 1: this you know, extractive process, and they'll be able to 302 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 1: convince them with you know, misleading statistics and you know 303 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff. In terms of logging industry 304 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 1: is getting getting really good at radicalizing rule populations to 305 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 1: have them believe that it's one not it's it's not 306 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 1: like economically destructive to take down trees. They might even 307 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: say it's like good, um and all all that kind 308 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 1: of stuff has have Has there been like any outreach 309 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 1: in terms of kind of addressing addressing people in small 310 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 1: towns who like maybe used to like you know, rely 311 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 1: on unlogging or something and how does how does that works? 312 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 1: I know, like they'll be like, oh, but you people 313 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 1: come from the city and now you're coming out here 314 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:54,560 Speaker 1: into like the woods where I live, and I think 315 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 1: it's good that they're chopping down these trees. Right, there's 316 00:16:57,280 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 1: there's there's there's like that kind of that that kind 317 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 1: of disconnection because again, no one, no one's immune to propaganda. 318 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:04,200 Speaker 1: You can you just you just just have to find 319 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: the specific one. Um. See. I'm just curious about, like 320 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:09,919 Speaker 1: in terms of in terms of like forest defense, how 321 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:12,680 Speaker 1: often this comes up and how and how you kind 322 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:15,920 Speaker 1: of yeah, I don't know what's what steps to make 323 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 1: to to be like to tell people, hey, maybe you're 324 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:23,239 Speaker 1: believe these things because timber industries told you them, Like 325 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 1: how how how how do you start that conversation with people? Yeah, 326 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:31,440 Speaker 1: this is like actually the heart of the forest defense 327 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 1: work ahead, what you're talking about right now, the heart 328 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 1: of our work ahead. Um. And I would also say, 329 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:43,880 Speaker 1: you know, there's a there's certainly, um a dichotomy that 330 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:48,440 Speaker 1: the media especially likes to present between the rural logging 331 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:51,879 Speaker 1: communities and you know Portland or city based in the 332 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 1: metalists and the hippie environmentalists too like come in and yeah, yeah, yeah, 333 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:58,760 Speaker 1: yeah yeah, And everyone's familiar with that, and there's of 334 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:01,439 Speaker 1: course some truth to that, but I want to say, 335 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:06,359 Speaker 1: like super clearly there are so many rural folks who 336 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 1: do not support the logging industry, and so that's like 337 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:11,400 Speaker 1: a false dichotomy that gets presented to us right off 338 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 1: the bat, and a lot of those you know, for 339 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:17,200 Speaker 1: in the in um the work that I've been doing 340 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 1: on forest forest defense, essentially, we're always connecting with folks 341 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:25,679 Speaker 1: on the ground in literally the backyards of these logging proposals, 342 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:28,879 Speaker 1: and many of them are super uninterested in having their 343 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:32,640 Speaker 1: backyards clear cut. And so we you know, the we 344 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 1: we pushed directly against that mythology that you know it's 345 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 1: just environmentalists coming in from Portland, because we work directly 346 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 1: with people, including for Brighton Bush, but with every single 347 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:42,960 Speaker 1: thing that we work on directly with people who are 348 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 1: literally on the front lines of that logging. That said, 349 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:49,959 Speaker 1: there is absolutely um a huge pull um. You know 350 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 1: Oregon specifically as you know, famous for logging. Like we 351 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:55,639 Speaker 1: talked about last time, there's a logger on top of 352 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 1: the capitol. Um. You know, are the mayor of Portland's 353 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:06,199 Speaker 1: logging money? Yeah, it's in Oregon's Oregonians blood. Yeah. And 354 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 1: for rural Oregonians, Um, there are economic realities where in 355 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 1: some cases, some counties benefit from UM logging in their 356 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 1: total from the logging industry, their school you know, schools 357 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:21,119 Speaker 1: are tied to logging money UM. And there's you know, 358 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, a narrative that is not 359 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 1: really accurate anymore, but has like an element of nostalgia 360 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:31,160 Speaker 1: to it, like you know, logging towns and UM this 361 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:34,119 Speaker 1: old story about how things used to work with small, 362 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 1: small family logging. That's not how it is anymore. But 363 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 1: that narrative that like nostalgic narrative, carries on into a 364 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 1: lot of communities. And so what the way that I 365 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 1: like to cut through that UM for people is by 366 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 1: making it really clear that there's a difference between small 367 00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 1: you know, family loggers of lore UM and and you 368 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:57,280 Speaker 1: know of you know, people's what people are attached to, 369 00:19:57,600 --> 00:19:59,880 Speaker 1: and the kinds of what we're seeing today is we're 370 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 1: king at Wall Street logging. We're looking at Wall Street 371 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 1: invested UM invested huge you know corporate industries who owned 372 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 1: who can who still own like you know, huge percentages 373 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:17,639 Speaker 1: of our drinking water sheds of our UM communities. Some 374 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:20,160 Speaker 1: some of the communities on the coast are owned primarily 375 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:25,880 Speaker 1: by private industrial Wall Street funded UM logging corporations, and 376 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,160 Speaker 1: that's you know, those aren't mom and pop. They're not 377 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 1: living in the community. They're living often not even on 378 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 1: the Pacific Northwest. These are rich ass assholes who are 379 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 1: destroying our bioregion. And you know, I think that making 380 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 1: it clear that those aren't those folks are not like us. 381 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:49,200 Speaker 1: You know, those are not like rural Oregonians. Your those 382 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:51,600 Speaker 1: are not your friends. Those are not you know, your 383 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 1: pals or your neighbors. And just cutting through that narrative 384 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:58,040 Speaker 1: that like, oh, you know logging communities, Um, you know, 385 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 1: loggers are your friendly neighbor. Actually no, loggers are Wall Street, Um, 386 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:06,200 Speaker 1: you know, investment corporations, rich money people who are doing 387 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 1: this destruction. And just kind of like breaking that. I guess, 388 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 1: like that, um, that attachment that people have to this idea, 389 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:28,880 Speaker 1: that's just not a reality anymore. The reality is that 390 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:33,959 Speaker 1: people who are for logging in rural communities are they 391 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,120 Speaker 1: have a lot more common with those of us who 392 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:39,639 Speaker 1: are fighting logging than the actual people doing the logging, 393 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:42,160 Speaker 1: if that makes sense. Like there's a lack of understanding 394 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,400 Speaker 1: of what the logging industry actually is. It's like back 395 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 1: to that nostalgia, like people who are against logging in 396 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:53,119 Speaker 1: rural communities. UM, you know, often genuinely do not realize 397 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:56,159 Speaker 1: that this is Wall Street and like who's doing this logging. 398 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,400 Speaker 1: They're still thinking it's their you know, neighbor or their 399 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:01,119 Speaker 1: friend and it's you know, these stories. But you know, 400 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 1: the reality is that, you know, this is corporate timber 401 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:08,200 Speaker 1: owners who are maximizing their financial gain by buying out 402 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:11,639 Speaker 1: small landowners all over the place, UM ensuring that they 403 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:15,119 Speaker 1: aren't taxed by lobbying heavily in the government, so they 404 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:17,440 Speaker 1: don't you know, have any sort of taxation that then 405 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 1: goes back to benefit our communities. Don't even get me 406 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 1: started about how many taxes the timber industry skips out 407 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,959 Speaker 1: on that could actually benefit our communities and our schools 408 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:28,359 Speaker 1: and our libraries and our fire departments, but aren't. UM. 409 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:32,159 Speaker 1: And then they're adopting exploitative labor practices. Basically, you know, 410 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:35,639 Speaker 1: the contracted workers who are in the logging industry right now, 411 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,959 Speaker 1: who are doing the logging and hauling UM and reforestation 412 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:43,400 Speaker 1: so called reforestation planting of mono crop plantations, they are 413 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:47,640 Speaker 1: experiencing flat wages and declining work quality conditions. UM. Meanwhile, 414 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 1: while the corporate timber forms are expanding their profits um 415 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:54,320 Speaker 1: and you know, getting more wealthy investors. So that is 416 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:58,239 Speaker 1: the reality of the timber industry. These are not you know, 417 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:02,200 Speaker 1: your friendly neighborhood loggers anymore. So a few other points 418 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:04,399 Speaker 1: I wanted to bring up, kind of on force itself. 419 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 1: Someone someone said something about how we talked about like 420 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 1: old growth, and and I guess they think that we 421 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:16,840 Speaker 1: said that all forests in this area is old growth. 422 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 1: And that's not something we actually said old growth. This 423 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,680 Speaker 1: is a specific term that means a specific thing. And yeah, 424 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 1: regardless of it being old growth or not, they still 425 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:28,159 Speaker 1: shouldn't be cut down. I don't know, So I'm not 426 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:30,200 Speaker 1: sure why this point was really raised, because we didn't 427 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 1: I did. I don't think we did, uh say that 428 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:36,919 Speaker 1: every that every tree there is is old growth. Um. 429 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 1: A lot of them were planted in the past few 430 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:41,800 Speaker 1: dred years. Um. But that that doesn't mean like they're 431 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 1: like much less important. It's like that just because they're 432 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:48,359 Speaker 1: not old growth doesn't mean we shouldn't be preserving this 433 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,360 Speaker 1: particular watershed in this particular environment and not be clear 434 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:54,479 Speaker 1: cutting all of it. Yeah, old growth is like like 435 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:57,199 Speaker 1: the term old growths just like become fetish ezed to 436 00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 1: me and this like this thing that you know. This 437 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:01,359 Speaker 1: is also to be clear, that's not an agreement on 438 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,680 Speaker 1: what old growth actually means across the board, even between agencies, 439 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,719 Speaker 1: Like there's an arbitrary date cut off that the federal 440 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:10,679 Speaker 1: government uses to define old growth. Um. But obviously if 441 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 1: you walk into a forest stand, this a healthy you know, 442 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:17,919 Speaker 1: a healthy old growth stand is complex in terms of 443 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 1: age diversity. There's going to be old growth individual trees, 444 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 1: there's going to be a lot of younger trees. Is 445 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:26,640 Speaker 1: gonna be horizontal and vertical diversification, Like old growth is complicated, 446 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,400 Speaker 1: it's messy. But the whole point is like you're right, 447 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,199 Speaker 1: like it doesn't actually matter if it's like quote in 448 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,160 Speaker 1: the cat the small narrow category of what the Forest 449 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 1: Service would define as old growth, if it's a forest 450 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:40,399 Speaker 1: that's been around for you know, a hundred years or 451 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:42,240 Speaker 1: even you know, I would argue, if it's a forest 452 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:44,720 Speaker 1: that's over like seventy or eighty years old, what are 453 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:49,280 Speaker 1: we doing cutting that down? That? Especially now you know 454 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:51,960 Speaker 1: that's storing so much carbon safely in the ground, and 455 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 1: also by that age, it's had the opportunity you know, 456 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:58,600 Speaker 1: to to become more diverse than these like mono crop 457 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 1: plantations that we're seeing younger forests. So I would argue 458 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 1: any forest that's not a monocrop plantation, a young monocrop plantation, 459 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,639 Speaker 1: should absolutely not be clear cut. It's just an inappropriate 460 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:11,399 Speaker 1: activity to do in native forest. And speaking of a 461 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 1: clear cut, there was another Another comment was about how 462 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 1: clear cutting can sometimes be good because it creates new 463 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:25,480 Speaker 1: environments for other animals and living things to exist in. 464 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 1: And I find this to be a really weird comment 465 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:33,159 Speaker 1: to make. Um, I don't I don't quite understand this, 466 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:37,119 Speaker 1: this kind of idea, because yes, of course, if you 467 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:40,240 Speaker 1: cut down a forest, you are creating a new environment, 468 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 1: but that's not where that environment should be, nor is 469 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 1: it where it is. It's like if you if you 470 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,880 Speaker 1: erect a whole bunch of concrete skyscrapers where a force 471 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,360 Speaker 1: used to be. Yeah, you're also making a new environment. 472 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 1: But I would say we probably shouldn't do that, though 473 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:55,920 Speaker 1: I don't. That's not that's not a good thing. The 474 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 1: same thing with like the people obsessed with like putting 475 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:00,520 Speaker 1: solar panels in the desert, Like the desert is an 476 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 1: actual environment, like it has. There is reasons for why 477 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 1: deserts need to exist and that have this whole like 478 00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 1: a whole a whole whole environment and the whole um 479 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:15,200 Speaker 1: I forget the word, but like it has an entire 480 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:20,080 Speaker 1: system of living things that exist there that should Um, 481 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 1: we we don't need to terraform everything. I don't think 482 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,639 Speaker 1: that's like, I don't we shouldn't. I think preserving the 483 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 1: environment in general, presuming the environments that are existing and 484 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,919 Speaker 1: who are creating like ecosystems, is a good thing. I 485 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 1: think generally the less terraforming probably probably the better, at 486 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 1: least right now when we're be like with a massive 487 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:45,320 Speaker 1: like looming climate crisis that's caused by us terraforming the earth. Um, 488 00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 1: maybe we should not do that as much. Yeah, we 489 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,840 Speaker 1: could call about a general role like no more terraforming, 490 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,400 Speaker 1: You'll just leave it. Let's just let's just leave let's 491 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 1: leave us for a bit. We just address some other things. 492 00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,440 Speaker 1: But for real, though, whoever wrote that comment, I mean 493 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 1: that is is a timber industry talking point that at 494 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,080 Speaker 1: the time it's literally that is literally and whether they 495 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:06,840 Speaker 1: meant it or not, you know, this is how the 496 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 1: timber industry gets us. They're real good at this. This 497 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,160 Speaker 1: is there, you know, nice sounding talking points that we 498 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:15,240 Speaker 1: rebut all the time, um, you know, not just in 499 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 1: media but also in court. Um. And the talking point 500 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 1: is clear cuts mimic natural disasters like severe fires by 501 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:29,160 Speaker 1: replacing you know, And it's part of the totally don't 502 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 1: look at a clear cut, go look at a fire. 503 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:33,960 Speaker 1: It's a completely different experience than I could go down 504 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,480 Speaker 1: that rabbit hole all day on fire ecology another time maybe, 505 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 1: but suffice it's to say, you know, what they're arguing 506 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:45,880 Speaker 1: is that they're creating young forest or quote early several 507 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 1: habitat by clear cutting an old forest. But what they're 508 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 1: actually doing is DeForest station. They're replacing an old forest 509 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 1: with something that's not a forest. A young mono crop 510 00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:59,639 Speaker 1: plantation is a crop. It is not a forest, and 511 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 1: so they are deforesting, and um, it is ecosystem. It 512 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:09,400 Speaker 1: is ecoside, and um, yeah it is. It is egoside. 513 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,040 Speaker 1: And I think, yeah, the insistence that like it's it's 514 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 1: good because it will allow some species to exist in 515 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:17,680 Speaker 1: this new environment, like yeah, but there's other environments where 516 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:19,200 Speaker 1: they can't exist, and we don't we don't need to 517 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:22,000 Speaker 1: be destroying the ones that are already kind of important 518 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,800 Speaker 1: and doing good stuff to make room for other ones 519 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,480 Speaker 1: that aren't already there. And they argue that the deer 520 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:29,959 Speaker 1: and the butterflies love the clear cuts, and so just 521 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 1: call that out as bullshit next time y'all hear that. 522 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 1: It's you know, spread the word that is some timber 523 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:36,720 Speaker 1: industry bs. They're tricksy, but don't let them get you. 524 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:40,360 Speaker 1: And the last thing I wanted to mention is why 525 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 1: blocking off access to these areas is bad? Um, because 526 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,880 Speaker 1: I got someone someone said something like, um, you know, 527 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:53,280 Speaker 1: because fires are human caused, closing off public lands is 528 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,400 Speaker 1: it can be good because then fire someone get hurt 529 00:28:56,440 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 1: in those areas, And this really just misunderstands why fires 530 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 1: get started. And also it's just a bad thing to 531 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:05,960 Speaker 1: do anyway, because like fire, if you look at like 532 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,880 Speaker 1: the map of where wildfires start, um, almost all of 533 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:13,240 Speaker 1: them are on the path of highways. Um, specifically in 534 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 1: California that when when the fires were really there was 535 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 1: there was a firefighter who who who made a great 536 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,920 Speaker 1: video about like why the fire line was all next 537 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:23,200 Speaker 1: to the highway, And there was like conspiracy theories of 538 00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 1: like including the Antifa's driving down highways and setting the 539 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 1: forest on fire, which was which was an actual popular 540 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 1: talking point because we live in the hell world. Um, 541 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 1: but like you know, he's explained like the reason why, 542 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,479 Speaker 1: Like they are like human caused, but they're not, like 543 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:39,680 Speaker 1: a lot of them aren't intentionally caused. It's because that's 544 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 1: where power lines run, and this is where a lot 545 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,360 Speaker 1: of sparks can ignite stuff on the edges of of 546 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,080 Speaker 1: highways that will then take out part of the forest. Now, 547 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 1: every once in a while there's a gender reveal party 548 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,520 Speaker 1: that goes horribly wrong and does and and does ignite it. 549 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:55,560 Speaker 1: That is true, and I think the solution to that 550 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:59,200 Speaker 1: is not closing down the forest. It's not having gender 551 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:05,480 Speaker 1: reveal party that we stopped selling uh on Amazon. I'm 552 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 1: all thor Tanna right as an idea, But how about 553 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:11,320 Speaker 1: let's stop selling blue and pink Tanna right packets to 554 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 1: people who don't know how to use explosives genuinely don't 555 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:17,040 Speaker 1: know because yeah, like they're not they're not actually using 556 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:18,800 Speaker 1: tanna right for what it's meant for, and they're not 557 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:22,080 Speaker 1: using it to do like like training, Um, they're using 558 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 1: it to say that they're having a baby. And this 559 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 1: has caused a lot of wildfire death. So how how 560 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:32,160 Speaker 1: about we just stopped selling uh the gender reveal party bombs. 561 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 1: I think that'd be a better solution than closing down 562 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:40,080 Speaker 1: massive swaths of public land. And how about our power 563 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,520 Speaker 1: line companies get their ship together and stop. Yeah, do 564 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:47,680 Speaker 1: actually have a plan for planned power shutoffs? And actually, 565 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:51,040 Speaker 1: you know, we know now actually Pacific Corps is in 566 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:55,040 Speaker 1: court right now because they started the Santiam fires. Their 567 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:57,760 Speaker 1: power lines started the Santa Inspires and the Archie Creek 568 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 1: fires and probably more. And so yeah, how about the 569 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,200 Speaker 1: power line companies get their ships together? But I feel 570 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:05,719 Speaker 1: like the other huge thing here is that, you know, 571 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,160 Speaker 1: the suggestion that we should close off these forests to 572 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:13,120 Speaker 1: the public to me is just like more uh you know, 573 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,880 Speaker 1: it's you know, blatantly it's racist, um, and it's you know, 574 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:21,320 Speaker 1: I think it's wrong because these lands, these belong to 575 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,320 Speaker 1: indigenous people. We should be giving these lands back to 576 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 1: indigenous people. And as you know, when we're talking about 577 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:30,520 Speaker 1: like rural communities to and adjust transition, like rural community 578 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,360 Speaker 1: members should actually have more say in what happens in 579 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,040 Speaker 1: their backyard forests should be able to be more engaged 580 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:39,160 Speaker 1: um in you know, the forests that literally provide them 581 00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:42,080 Speaker 1: with their drinking water, um, and you know all of 582 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 1: the things that they need um to survive. So we 583 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:47,440 Speaker 1: should not be you know, locking off these lands and 584 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,479 Speaker 1: keeping humans out. Humans have a place in these lands. 585 00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:52,960 Speaker 1: I've always had a place in a role in these lands. 586 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:55,000 Speaker 1: And um, if we take leadership from the right folks, 587 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,080 Speaker 1: then we could totally live in a much more reasonable 588 00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:00,800 Speaker 1: way than the gender reveal party path. And I don't 589 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 1: know if you know this, but like being in the 590 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:06,720 Speaker 1: forest is great. It's like it is great to be 591 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:20,120 Speaker 1: surrounded by giant trees. It makes you feel awesome. The 592 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:23,400 Speaker 1: last thing I want to talk about is um you 593 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 1: you mentioned before, like getting people who live in these 594 00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,400 Speaker 1: rural areas who used to rely on logging, getting them 595 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 1: are involved and doing a just transition, because this is 596 00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:33,520 Speaker 1: a topic that comes out that comes up on climate 597 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:35,960 Speaker 1: change like everywhere in terms of like you know, like 598 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:38,920 Speaker 1: countries that are still developing not being able to have 599 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,520 Speaker 1: access to the same amount of fossil fuels that countries 600 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 1: like the States you know had when they when when 601 00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,240 Speaker 1: they were developing, and like how is that fair? Right? 602 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:48,920 Speaker 1: This is this is like this is a very common 603 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:51,280 Speaker 1: thing of in terms of countries that are better off. 604 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:54,840 Speaker 1: Um need will you know have kind of kind of 605 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:58,200 Speaker 1: like a duty to assist assist countries that are trying 606 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:02,120 Speaker 1: to develop and trying to get better standards living. Um, 607 00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:04,320 Speaker 1: because we profited off a fossil fuels and now they 608 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:06,719 Speaker 1: won't have the same opportunity if we're trying to you know, 609 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,400 Speaker 1: get to a carbon neutral world. Um. So in terms 610 00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:12,520 Speaker 1: of like a just just transition, this is something like 611 00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 1: you know, a COP twenty six there was supposed to 612 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:18,760 Speaker 1: be funding for adaptation efforts in in the developing countries. 613 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:20,880 Speaker 1: Now that failed because of course it did, It's COP 614 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:22,840 Speaker 1: twenty six. But in terms of like, in terms of 615 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:25,600 Speaker 1: like this this idea of a just transition, how do 616 00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:28,960 Speaker 1: you see this like locally in the rural environment within 617 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,120 Speaker 1: the States and for for like these types of areas, 618 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 1: because like, yeah, because it's similar to like coal mining 619 00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:37,960 Speaker 1: the towns, similar to you know, logging towns. How how 620 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,960 Speaker 1: does how how do you see this working? Yeah? This 621 00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:43,480 Speaker 1: is something I think about so much. Um. And we 622 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:46,000 Speaker 1: actually put out a platform called a Green New Deal 623 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,320 Speaker 1: for our Forests in the Pacific Northwest that talks like 624 00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 1: all about what a just transition could look like for communities. 625 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:53,480 Speaker 1: But I mean, this is a dream and I think 626 00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:57,000 Speaker 1: it's like a really inspiring uh inspiring path forward because 627 00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,040 Speaker 1: what it means is that, you know, we're not saying 628 00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:01,560 Speaker 1: to end logging, and we're not saying that rural communities 629 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,680 Speaker 1: basically need to like stop existing and getting funding from logging. 630 00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:07,720 Speaker 1: What we're saying is that rural community members, what we 631 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,719 Speaker 1: that nostalgic dream that are that people are playing to, 632 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:13,400 Speaker 1: we actually want to have something in that regard. We 633 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:17,120 Speaker 1: would like people to you know, engage with and interact 634 00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:19,600 Speaker 1: with their local forests. Now that shouldn't look like clear 635 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:23,600 Speaker 1: cutting them, because um, that's irresponsible and that doesn't benefit 636 00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:26,960 Speaker 1: local communities or you know, benefit of future. But that 637 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:31,759 Speaker 1: could look like restoring these young mono crop plantations into complex, 638 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,680 Speaker 1: healthy forests. It could be looked like bringing fire back 639 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,959 Speaker 1: onto the landscape with prescribed fire and cultural burning, taking 640 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:40,799 Speaker 1: lessons from indigenous folks who are doing network um. It 641 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:44,920 Speaker 1: could look like education and recreation and so many things 642 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:48,320 Speaker 1: of like you know, hands on engagement with backyard forests 643 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:51,239 Speaker 1: that surround us um and you know that that could 644 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:56,160 Speaker 1: look like basically firing the freddies and uh, taking this 645 00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:59,880 Speaker 1: land and giving it to local communities with um, you know, 646 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:05,120 Speaker 1: the with conservation goals, but also goals to economically support 647 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,120 Speaker 1: by all of those ways you know, jobs but also 648 00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:13,040 Speaker 1: jobs and recreation, um economically support local communities. So basically 649 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:15,719 Speaker 1: giving the land back to the local communities who rely 650 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:19,080 Speaker 1: on them and giving them power and control um to 651 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:21,839 Speaker 1: care for them in ways that makes sense because right now, 652 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,560 Speaker 1: while streets caring for our forests, and really it should 653 00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:27,640 Speaker 1: be us. And I think one other thing on this topic, 654 00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:31,319 Speaker 1: for like how how well propagando works when I was 655 00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:35,960 Speaker 1: at the stop line three purchase camps last summer in 656 00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:39,160 Speaker 1: terms of like how do corporations get towns to start 657 00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:41,480 Speaker 1: supporting these ideas and how do they like foster this 658 00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:45,880 Speaker 1: hatred of environmentalism um, despite you know, these areas often 659 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:48,080 Speaker 1: being the worst impact one of the worst impacted ones 660 00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:51,359 Speaker 1: by these like effort efforts. Right uh, you know, you're 661 00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:54,719 Speaker 1: they're chopping down forests near where this town is. Pipeline 662 00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,359 Speaker 1: is going next to the town. If it leaks, it's 663 00:35:57,360 --> 00:35:59,920 Speaker 1: going to cause all this problem to like their water 664 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,480 Speaker 1: fine stuff. But like how they do it's like the 665 00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:05,280 Speaker 1: day of the direct action to block off the pipeline. 666 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:09,560 Speaker 1: Enbridge was sponsoring like a town fair in like the 667 00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:13,400 Speaker 1: little downtown area, and it's like this super surreal moment 668 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,880 Speaker 1: of being like, oh, this is like I've read this 669 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:20,080 Speaker 1: happened in like comics before, like and this this is 670 00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:22,359 Speaker 1: like this is like one of Lex Luthor's favorite things 671 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:24,840 Speaker 1: to do. He'll like he'll like go into this like 672 00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,759 Speaker 1: small town. Who's gonna start like this evil you know, 673 00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:31,520 Speaker 1: evil like a like lab at and he'll like fund 674 00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:35,040 Speaker 1: like this small town event thing, and like I've seen 675 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:38,439 Speaker 1: this before in so many superhero comics, Like I've seen 676 00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:40,680 Speaker 1: this trope and that I'm just like living it. You're 677 00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:43,319 Speaker 1: just like watching it happen. You're like driving past the 678 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,919 Speaker 1: town to go block up pipeline, and then you see 679 00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:49,160 Speaker 1: like Enbridge with like a little stage and like a 680 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:51,480 Speaker 1: little like fair and like everyone in the towns like 681 00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:53,480 Speaker 1: dancing and they're giving out like free drinks, and like 682 00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:58,200 Speaker 1: oh no, like this is yeah, Like you're you're like 683 00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:00,279 Speaker 1: living the things like you know, a lot of it. 684 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:03,640 Speaker 1: It's about like this idea of like rein like reinvigorating 685 00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:06,360 Speaker 1: like like you know, like the like the spirit of 686 00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:09,279 Speaker 1: the town and injecting, injecting new life into it. So like, 687 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:10,719 Speaker 1: you know, this this is like a new one for 688 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:12,880 Speaker 1: like they're they're putting a pipeline down, but like, you know, 689 00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:14,600 Speaker 1: it's the same thing for like you know, old like 690 00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:18,560 Speaker 1: old coal towns, old logging towns, and these corporations will 691 00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:21,279 Speaker 1: come in, you know, make the town more active again, 692 00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:23,200 Speaker 1: start putting on events, make it feel like more of 693 00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:26,400 Speaker 1: a place. And then that that gets so the company 694 00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:29,960 Speaker 1: gets associated with positive changes. Right, so then people who 695 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:31,440 Speaker 1: live in the towns like, oh yeah, and we're just 696 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:33,960 Speaker 1: doing all these good things for my town. That must 697 00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,359 Speaker 1: mean they actually, you know, are gonna care about us 698 00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:38,799 Speaker 1: here and then help and help us out. Meanwhile, these 699 00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,160 Speaker 1: people from all around the country are driving through and 700 00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:44,120 Speaker 1: trying to block the pipeline, and the police are driving everywhere. 701 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:47,200 Speaker 1: Now it's all this chaos, right, these stupid environmentalists, they 702 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,279 Speaker 1: don't understand how this is gonna you know, it's it's 703 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:52,040 Speaker 1: we're creating so many jobs here, which actually didn't. Enbridge 704 00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,480 Speaker 1: outsourced most of the jobs out of state, but they 705 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:56,560 Speaker 1: lied about the type of job creation. You know, all 706 00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:58,920 Speaker 1: all all all this type of stuff, and this is 707 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:03,120 Speaker 1: a very very common think totally and like timber unity 708 00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:06,879 Speaker 1: is like delivering would to people when the when when 709 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:09,200 Speaker 1: the snow storm happened and everyone was cold and didn't 710 00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:11,040 Speaker 1: have power, and they were you know, going door to 711 00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:14,839 Speaker 1: door with mutual aid support. Um. But that is why 712 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:18,399 Speaker 1: you know, a remember how everyone should remember how how 713 00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:21,719 Speaker 1: tricksy and how dishonest these folks are, but also be 714 00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:24,640 Speaker 1: why um, those of us who want to see a 715 00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:27,279 Speaker 1: different way need to be doing mutual aid too, Like 716 00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,000 Speaker 1: we actually need to be out there in our communities 717 00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:32,440 Speaker 1: and making friends and building trust and not just showing 718 00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:34,879 Speaker 1: up to function up when it's time to function up. 719 00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:36,719 Speaker 1: And I think that kind of like circles back to 720 00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:39,000 Speaker 1: the point we talked about earlier, which is like building 721 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:41,680 Speaker 1: relationships with people on the front lines. Um. Looks like 722 00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:43,920 Speaker 1: so much more than just like the defense of a 723 00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:46,120 Speaker 1: bad thing in their backyards. It looks like, you know, 724 00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:49,719 Speaker 1: mutual aid because the industry is doing it, um and 725 00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:53,960 Speaker 1: they're they're good at it, and we need to be better. Um. 726 00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,440 Speaker 1: I think that rops up for us today what one 727 00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:59,080 Speaker 1: thing I wanted, like, what what is going to happen 728 00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:02,640 Speaker 1: going forward now after this, after this legal victory, what's 729 00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:05,120 Speaker 1: kind of just just just just just just so people know, 730 00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:07,000 Speaker 1: like what is like the next steps that are going 731 00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:08,799 Speaker 1: to be taken on the legal process that will kind 732 00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:12,040 Speaker 1: of determine what what happens UM with like you know, 733 00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:14,239 Speaker 1: direct actions and going to see the forest in like 734 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:18,480 Speaker 1: in the future. Yeah. UM, Well basically we're waiting UM 735 00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:21,640 Speaker 1: for a date for this court case UM, and so 736 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:24,000 Speaker 1: that will hopefully be scheduled if it if it ends 737 00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:26,200 Speaker 1: up having to go through, which it might not. UM. 738 00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:28,000 Speaker 1: Obviously it is going to be an effort made on 739 00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:31,439 Speaker 1: behalf of lawyers UM to try and get the Forest 740 00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:34,920 Speaker 1: Service to just stop to just drop this Shenanigan UM 741 00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:38,040 Speaker 1: and walk away UM while they're you know where they're at. 742 00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:40,480 Speaker 1: Because we we do think we have a really strong 743 00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:42,520 Speaker 1: case UM that will win in court if it goes 744 00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:45,480 Speaker 1: to court. So that's kind of like the legal avenue UM. 745 00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:47,759 Speaker 1: Same story as what I said with the last time 746 00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:51,400 Speaker 1: we talked. You know, if if logging is going to 747 00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:54,959 Speaker 1: move forward in that area, whether that be because UM 748 00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:57,839 Speaker 1: it happens in the future or because somehow this legal 749 00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:00,880 Speaker 1: case is lost, direct action will happened. People will be 750 00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:03,439 Speaker 1: out there in the way of logging. There's no way 751 00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:05,120 Speaker 1: people are going to let that go down in the 752 00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:07,640 Speaker 1: Brighton Bush community. UM, so right now we're kind of 753 00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:10,560 Speaker 1: in a waiting game. We're watching and waiting. Um, but 754 00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:13,000 Speaker 1: you know, I hope the Forest Service knows now that 755 00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:15,160 Speaker 1: they can't just get get away with stuff like this. 756 00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:18,680 Speaker 1: People are watching, people are going to file public records request. 757 00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:21,960 Speaker 1: We're documenting this and um, hopefully you know, we won't 758 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:23,840 Speaker 1: be seeing more of this, but because we live in 759 00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:26,000 Speaker 1: the real world, the real sad world, we will be 760 00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:28,600 Speaker 1: seeing more of this and so um, you know, we'll 761 00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:30,480 Speaker 1: be out there again when the next forest is on 762 00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:35,719 Speaker 1: the chopping block, which is probably going to be you know, today, tomorrow. Yeah, 763 00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,520 Speaker 1: it's kind of always the thing. Um. Well, thank thank 764 00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:40,120 Speaker 1: you so much for coming on to talk about this 765 00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:45,239 Speaker 1: and the uh rare rare good news episode of Hey 766 00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:50,960 Speaker 1: something good happening. Thank you. Than in any other sources, 767 00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:53,880 Speaker 1: people can kind of follow along on the fight that 768 00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:57,960 Speaker 1: the people can find online. Yeah, make sure to follow 769 00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:01,080 Speaker 1: Cascadia Forest Offenders and Portland Rise tide Um, who will 770 00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:04,360 Speaker 1: be definitely tracking and posting. You can also follow Cascadia Wildlands, 771 00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:07,759 Speaker 1: who um was the lead nonprofit on the lawsuit and 772 00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:11,239 Speaker 1: they've been posting about it too great all right, thanks 773 00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:18,359 Speaker 1: everybody for listening. Uh go see a tree, touch tree. 774 00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:21,640 Speaker 1: It could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone 775 00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:24,480 Speaker 1: Media and more podcasts from cool Zone Media. Visit our 776 00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:26,880 Speaker 1: website cool zone media dot com, or check us out 777 00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:29,440 Speaker 1: on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 778 00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:32,200 Speaker 1: you listen to podcasts. You can find sources for It 779 00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:35,200 Speaker 1: could Happen Here, updated monthly at cool zone Media dot 780 00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:37,400 Speaker 1: com slash sources. Thanks for listening.