1 00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:06,040 Speaker 1: On this episode of Sports Illustrated Weekly, we have a 2 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 1: New York baseball doubleheader. Later in the show, a s 3 00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:11,640 Speaker 1: I Senior writer Stephanie Apstein takes a look at how 4 00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 1: the Mets turned their team and their culture around to 5 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:19,279 Speaker 1: produce a surprisingly good and surprisingly functional season so far. 6 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 1: But first, s I Senior writer Tom Verducci joins me 7 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 1: to discuss his sit down with Yankees slugger Aaron Judge 8 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 1: during his history chasing season. I'm your host John Gonzalez 9 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:36,560 Speaker 1: from Sports Illustrated and iHeart Radio. This is Sports Illustrated Weekly. 10 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 1: Tom Verducci, Welcome back to Sports Illustrated Weekly. Hey, good 11 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 1: to be here. All right, So you wrote a fantastic 12 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 1: piece on Aaron Judge, who's having a really excellent season. 13 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:53,960 Speaker 1: The Yankee slugger is chasing home run history. You start 14 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 1: the piece with an anecdote on August twelve, and at 15 00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 1: bat facing Red Sox petcher Nathan of All the changeup 16 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 1: on ball one, we judge to lead it off as 17 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 1: we go to the third, one to nothing. Tell us 18 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 1: why that pitch on that at bat was so important 19 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 1: and how it helps explain the season Judges having well. 20 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:14,759 Speaker 1: First of all, Aaron Judge was really gracious with his time. 21 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: Doesn't do a lot of sit down interviews, so given 22 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:20,680 Speaker 1: that opportunity, my challenge was to really, if you will, 23 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:22,680 Speaker 1: kind of get inside of his head. Right. We can 24 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 1: all see the physical ability that he has, but what 25 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 1: is it about Aaron Judge that's making this season so special? 26 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 1: So I chose that pitch because to me, it's the 27 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:34,919 Speaker 1: intersection of all these experience in the major leagues, everything 28 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 1: he's done physically to prepare himself. Now he's in a 29 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:40,959 Speaker 1: situation where everybody knows he's the most dangerous hitter in baseball. 30 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 1: He sees so few actual good pitches to hit. An 31 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:47,039 Speaker 1: amazing thing is when he gets them, he's hitting him 32 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 1: for home runs. So this was kind of entree into 33 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 1: the mindset, the preparation, the intuition, if you will have 34 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 1: Aaron Judge to figure out, how is it that this 35 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 1: guy still is hitting home runs when pitchers know they 36 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 1: can't afford to make mistake as So that was a 37 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 1: window up against Nathan of Aaldi the Red Sox where 38 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 1: he did take the split figure change up for ball 39 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 1: one down and away and his sense and it's a 40 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 1: little more than sense, but I'll say, his sense told 41 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 1: him the next pitch was going to be a fastball 42 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:18,440 Speaker 1: up and in. That's exactly where it was. Swallow there, 43 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:21,919 Speaker 1: deep west center field. Hit us hot, let us far, 44 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:25,079 Speaker 1: let us got out of the ball park, and once 45 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 1: again he didn't miss it. I mean, sometimes hittors get 46 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 1: pitches they're looking for and they foul it off, they 47 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 1: popped it up, they hit it hard to the shortstop. 48 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:33,679 Speaker 1: This guy hit it on a parking garage in the 49 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 1: left field. Yeah, he hit that pitch thirteen point eight 50 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 1: miles prior, harder than any ball hit all season by 51 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: any right hand batter on up and end fastball. And 52 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 1: as you said, he crushed it out of Fenway. And 53 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: it's so cool that you got to sit down and 54 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 1: talk to him about how he studies the game, how 55 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 1: he does his homework on pictures like this, and I'm 56 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:55,080 Speaker 1: sure for him it was nice for him to do 57 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 1: that against the Red Sox in Boston. He gets a 58 00:02:56,880 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 1: little extra enjoyment out of that. At the time that 59 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 1: we were recording home runs through the first games, so 60 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 1: he's chasing this record. He had some thoughts on the 61 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:08,399 Speaker 1: record and who holds the real one? Right? He did 62 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 1: and question all of us as fans of the game, 63 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:13,799 Speaker 1: really ask ourselves all the time, ever since the steroid 64 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:17,080 Speaker 1: era kind of blew up the record book, what is 65 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 1: the record? What the official record obviously seventy three home 66 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:24,519 Speaker 1: runs by Barry Bonds. But it's interesting since testing for 67 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 1: p E. D s has been a place since two 68 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 1: thousand three, no one has even hit sixty home runs. 69 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 1: So in the minds of a lot of people, the 70 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 1: authentic record, if not the official one, is the sixty 71 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 1: one by Roger Marris in one. So I was curious 72 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: to think, what does Aaron Judge think about what the 73 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 1: record is? And listen, he grew up as a fan 74 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 1: of the Giants, but he said, seventy three is seventy three. 75 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 1: It was done. Whatever that arrow was, that's what it was. 76 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: You still have to go out there and do it. 77 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 1: So in his mind that is the record. But he 78 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 1: was quick to point out, have to bring this up. 79 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 1: The American League record is sixty one hit yet way 80 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 1: back there, and he said, I've got a shot at that. 81 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 1: And boy does he yeah, he really does. There's so 82 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 1: much going on for him, Tom, and as you said, 83 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 1: he doesn't do a lot of these interviews. I think 84 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:23,160 Speaker 1: it's really cool that you got him to sit down 85 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:26,159 Speaker 1: and and discuss this, because there's the on field component 86 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 1: where he's chasing this record or records depending on how 87 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 1: you you know, what your perspective is on it. And 88 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 1: then there's all the stuff swirling around him and the 89 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 1: club and the contract extension that he was offered started 90 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:40,600 Speaker 1: this season, turning down a massive contract extension that created 91 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 1: some tension between him and the Yankees, right because the 92 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 1: Yankees went public with the terms, which it seemed like 93 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:49,160 Speaker 1: Judge was not exactly thrilled about. No, you're absolutely right, 94 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 1: and that's what Judge told me, he said, Listen, I 95 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:55,600 Speaker 1: thought those conversations talking about the contract negotiations were private. 96 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 1: And as you mentioned, right before Opening Day was played, 97 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 1: the Yankees not only announced that Judge had turned down 98 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 1: this contract offer, but they gave the terms of that deal, 99 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 1: and it was about thirty and a half million dollars 100 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 1: per year over seven years, would have made Aaron Judge 101 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:17,280 Speaker 1: on average annual value, about the highest paid player. Obviously, 102 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 1: he found that unsatisfactory, but he didn't like the fact 103 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 1: that this offer came in at the last minute and 104 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 1: then was made public. Now, he said, told me, Listen, 105 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 1: I had a chance that I wanted to to make 106 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 1: a big deal out of that and go all negative 107 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: on team dates, front office, fan base, he said, But 108 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 1: you know what, I decided, I want to turn that 109 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 1: into a positive. I'm still playing for the New York Yankees, 110 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 1: no matter what the contract situation is, at least for 111 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 1: two I'm gonna make the best for this. And he's 112 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:47,480 Speaker 1: done nothing but add to his value and who knows 113 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 1: how much farther north that number is going. But there's 114 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 1: that phrase, Hey, he bet on himself, He's gonna cash 115 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 1: it big. Yeah. I love that you bring up the 116 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 1: better on himself part, because everybody would think about it 117 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:03,119 Speaker 1: that way, at least those of us who follow sports 118 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:05,160 Speaker 1: that are not professional athletes would say, oh, he he 119 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: bet on himself. But you talked to him about this 120 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 1: and you wrote that the easy angle is that he 121 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:11,360 Speaker 1: bet on himself. But Judge told you he doesn't see 122 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:13,719 Speaker 1: it that way, right. Yeah. I love that response. I 123 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 1: thought it was really interesting. He said, it wasn't a gamble. 124 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:18,479 Speaker 1: I'm not betting on myself now. It speaks to his 125 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:22,160 Speaker 1: supreme confidence. But he said, listen, I'm still playing for 126 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:24,160 Speaker 1: the Yankees. Whether I signed a deal or not. Talking 127 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 1: about two season that didn't change. And I think he's 128 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 1: at a point in his career where he is so 129 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 1: confident in himself. And the one thing I have to 130 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: point out here is that one of the reasons the 131 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:40,280 Speaker 1: contract offer wasn't bigger was because Aaron Judge has been 132 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 1: hurt a lot in his career. But Aaron Judge went 133 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:47,040 Speaker 1: a great detail explaining to me why that no longer 134 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 1: applies to him. He said a lot of things with 135 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:52,400 Speaker 1: his training, both before games and after a games, and 136 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 1: he feels like his body is very different from what 137 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:59,280 Speaker 1: it was in his younger days. So part of his confidence, Yeah, 138 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 1: he's a great hit or he knows it, but it's 139 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 1: also knowing he has a lot of confidence in the 140 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 1: way his body now is responding to the grind of 141 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 1: a season. Because he said, yeah, he's some people would 142 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 1: say you're taking a gamble, what if you get hurt, 143 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 1: But it seemed to me and Aaron explaining this to me, 144 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 1: that he's so confident in his routine right now, he 145 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 1: wasn't worried about getting hurt at all. So he's staying healthy. 146 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 1: Obviously a big deal for him and his season, and 147 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 1: it's going to help with the contract and those numbers, 148 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 1: as you kind of alluded to, or just ticking up, 149 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 1: ratcheting up. Another thing I found really interesting about the piece, 150 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 1: and it was so smart that you pointed this out, 151 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 1: is that he's having this historic season and he's staying 152 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 1: healthy and he's hitting the ball crushing at a time 153 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 1: when it's become really hard to hit a baseball. Through 154 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 1: three quarters of the season, the collective league batting average 155 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 1: is the fourth lowest since nineteen hundred, which just like 156 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 1: absolutely blew me away. Tom. Did you spend much time 157 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 1: reflecting on that or did Aaron Judge spend much time 158 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 1: reflecting on that with you? That he's having such a 159 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 1: successful season at a time when many of his peers 160 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 1: are not. Yeah, we talked the law about, especially the 161 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 1: velocity in the game that you see on a nightly basis. 162 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 1: That used to be maybe the closer for the other 163 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 1: team was a guy who threw really hard upper nineties. 164 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 1: Now you see it from one through nine. In terms 165 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:14,239 Speaker 1: of the innings of a game. The number of pitches 166 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 1: thrown a hundred miles or more just in the last 167 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 1: three years has tripled, and a swing in a miss 168 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 1: one the two again for strike three, and the amount 169 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 1: of spin in the game today has gone up. There's 170 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 1: more breaking pitches now than fastballs. That's the first time 171 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 1: it's ever happened in baseball history. As you mentioned, it's 172 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: harder to get a hit in today's game that it's 173 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:36,679 Speaker 1: ever been since the mount was lowered back in nine 174 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 1: So judges doing this at a time where I think 175 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:43,560 Speaker 1: it's harder to hit than ever before. Now. One thing 176 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:46,200 Speaker 1: he did tell me about how to combat that. A 177 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 1: lot of times before a game, he'll go in and 178 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 1: hit against a high velocity machine. This is a pitching 179 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 1: machine that cranks the ball up as high as a 180 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 1: hundred and ten miles per hour. And what they'll do 181 00:08:56,880 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 1: is they'll put some softer, dimpled baseballs in there, because 182 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 1: you're gonna get jammed. And even as good as error 183 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:05,560 Speaker 1: judge is coming in that hard, you're going to get jammed. 184 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 1: So you get in there or train your eyes and 185 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: your muscles to hit against something that's actually even faster 186 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 1: than what you'll see in the game. And he said 187 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:15,080 Speaker 1: that's really helped him. He's done this the last couple 188 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: of years to help slow down this extreme velocity we 189 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:24,960 Speaker 1: see in the game. You mentioned that he doesn't give 190 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 1: a lot of these interviews, and yet he gave an 191 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: interview to you, and you've got so much good stuff. 192 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 1: I mean, all these anecdotes that you were throwing at 193 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:35,559 Speaker 1: me right here are fascinating for me. Not to do 194 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 1: the like two inside baseball here, but get a little 195 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 1: inside baseball on the media with me. Like what was 196 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:44,199 Speaker 1: he like to interview as a subject? Well, he was great, 197 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 1: first of all, because he's a very him. He's a gentleman. 198 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 1: He talked to me about his parents, both of whom 199 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 1: are school teachers, and he said that's where he gets 200 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 1: this really incredible respect he has for other people, even empathy. 201 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 1: He's he's great with kids. He has a foundation that 202 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 1: reaches out to a lot of kids and provides education 203 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 1: opportunities for them. But it's I'm all about just treating people. 204 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 1: And I think Aaron Judge, especially this year, has so 205 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 1: many demands on him, yet I think it doesn't really 206 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 1: affect who he is as a person. Yeah, I don't 207 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:18,560 Speaker 1: think he loves talking about himself. It's probably not his 208 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:21,319 Speaker 1: favorite subjects. So I'm glad he gave me that opportunity 209 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 1: to kind of dive into what makes him tick. Um, 210 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:27,960 Speaker 1: but he's more about team and again about really other 211 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 1: people rather than talking about himself. If you want to 212 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 1: sit down and talk to Eric Judge about his teammates 213 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 1: with the team, he'll go out all day. So I 214 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:36,199 Speaker 1: was happy he gave me this time because he is 215 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 1: a fascinating study. Uh. And one of the things I 216 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: really wanted to get into is the fact that you know, 217 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 1: it wasn't like this guy came out of the gate 218 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 1: like some phenomen You know, he had won seventy nine 219 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:49,079 Speaker 1: his first year. He struck out almost half the times 220 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:51,960 Speaker 1: he came to the plate. So what you're seeing now 221 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 1: is the evolution of a great hitter, not one who 222 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: is necessarily born from day one of the big leagues 223 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 1: that way. Yeah, from a reporting perspective, From a journalism perspective, 224 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 1: I love that you got this access, but just also 225 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:07,680 Speaker 1: from a fan consumer perspective like this is this is 226 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:10,199 Speaker 1: a really fantastic piece and you've got some really good 227 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:12,680 Speaker 1: time with him. I want to ask you, though, where 228 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 1: you think all of this ends up on two different fronts. 229 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 1: Let's start with the record or records your perspective, where 230 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 1: do you think he ends up home run wise this season. 231 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:23,960 Speaker 1: I think he does hit number sixty two. He's not 232 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 1: gonna get seventy three. But at first I was very 233 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 1: skeptical because I thought the closer he got, and the 234 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:33,559 Speaker 1: more there is less help than the Yankee lineup for him, 235 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:37,720 Speaker 1: the fewer pitches he would see to hit, which is true, 236 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: but I'm continually blown away by the fact that when 237 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 1: he does see something, he's hitting it out of the 238 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 1: ballpark field. Going back looks number Nickels, it is sort 239 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 1: of Barry Bonds esque, maybe not quite to that extent, 240 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 1: but his ability not to miss the rare pitch is 241 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 1: just incredible. So that's why I think he could still 242 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:06,320 Speaker 1: get this done. I think the longest he's gone this 243 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 1: year without a home run is nine games, so he's 244 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 1: been very consistent. Listen, I think it's not a done deal, 245 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 1: but I think he does wind up hitting number sixty two, 246 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 1: And obviously that's American League record, the Yankee franchise record, 247 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:20,800 Speaker 1: and especially in this day and age, that should be 248 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 1: celebrated big time. It will be celebrated, probably by his 249 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 1: bank account as well. I'm wondering what you what you 250 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:33,679 Speaker 1: think happens there after the season. As you wrote, the 251 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 1: Yankees offered him thirty point five million per year, which 252 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 1: sounds like a ton to me. But then, as you know, 253 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 1: did eleven players make more, including two on his own team, 254 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:44,080 Speaker 1: he's gonna get paid. What kind of numbers do you 255 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:46,199 Speaker 1: think he's looking at? Yeah, and also I think you 256 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:48,280 Speaker 1: have to besides all the home runs he hits, talk 257 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:50,559 Speaker 1: about the impact that he has at the gate, right 258 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:52,920 Speaker 1: off the fielding on the field. He is one of 259 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:55,320 Speaker 1: the rare baseball players who I think to walk down 260 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:57,200 Speaker 1: any street in America and people know who he is. 261 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:00,560 Speaker 1: Of course, he's six ft seven, so that helps, but 262 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 1: he does have this star quality about him. He is 263 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 1: a drawing card. So when you sign Aaron Judge, you're 264 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 1: getting great offensive production, a guy you could play center 265 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:12,440 Speaker 1: field at six ft seven, But you're also getting a 266 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 1: guy who will sell tickets and draw eyeballs to your 267 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:19,400 Speaker 1: regional sports network. So the investment in Naron Judge is 268 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 1: going to be big, but I think the return is 269 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 1: just as big. So where the number goes, I think 270 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:26,720 Speaker 1: now you're looking at over thirty five million a year, 271 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:29,839 Speaker 1: probably again, maybe seven. Maybe he gets the eighth year 272 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 1: now because he has now played two straight years fully 273 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:35,560 Speaker 1: healthy playing and almost more than nine of the Yankees games. 274 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:37,880 Speaker 1: He's proven that where he goes, I still think he 275 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:39,839 Speaker 1: winds up at the Yankees. I think in his heart 276 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 1: of hearts, you know, this is the only organization he 277 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 1: plays for and wants to continue playing for them. But 278 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 1: as I imagined, he was a Giants fan growing up. 279 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:51,200 Speaker 1: The Giants certainly need a new star out there in 280 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 1: that ballpark in San Francisco. You've got the New York 281 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 1: Mets looming if they get bounced in the playoffs early. 282 00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 1: Maybe Steve Colin wants to get the biggest star he 283 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:02,079 Speaker 1: can get his hand ends on who is Aaron Judge. Listen, 284 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 1: there's going to be it's the top of the market. 285 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:06,960 Speaker 1: Only the richest teams can afford him. But I do 286 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 1: think what all of said, and it's gonna be between 287 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 1: thirty five and forty million a year. Yes, so much 288 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:14,679 Speaker 1: going on. It's so fascinating to watch him this season 289 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 1: and then into the off season. But as he said, 290 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:18,839 Speaker 1: as he told you all that other stuff is why 291 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 1: he has an agent. Read his excellent piece about Aaron 292 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 1: Judge on SI dot com. It's really good. So much access, 293 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:27,960 Speaker 1: so many things in there to unpack. Tom Verducci, you 294 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 1: killed it. Thank you, cool stuff, Thanks for having me. 295 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 1: After the break, we take a look at how the 296 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 1: Mets have stopped being while the Mets and have found 297 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:45,880 Speaker 1: success this season. Stephanie Epstein, Welcome back to Sports Illustrated Weekly. 298 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 1: Thanks for having me. Great to see you again. We're 299 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 1: about to discuss something, frankly, stuff that I would rather 300 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 1: not making a filly native talk about. This feels criminal. 301 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: I've debated whether or not I should file an HR 302 00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 1: complain about this, but we're making an exception because you're 303 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 1: the author of this piece. You wrote a story about 304 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 1: the New York Mets. Essentially the Mets not being MLB's 305 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 1: biggest and most consistent fail son, which is what we've 306 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 1: known them as for quite some time. I like, personally 307 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 1: stuff when they're more of a joke, but they haven't 308 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 1: been this season. As we record this, Atlanta has essentially 309 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 1: caught them in the NL East, and we will discuss 310 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 1: if the Mets are gonna end up metsing in the end. 311 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 1: But still on the whole macro terms, this has been 312 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 1: a good season for them. Yeah, they've played great, and 313 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 1: even the fact that Atlanta has taught them. It's not 314 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 1: the Mets haven't really played badly. Atlanta has just been 315 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 1: playing great. So you mentioned in your piece you start 316 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 1: with an anecdote and it involves new owner Steve Cohen 317 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 1: and President Sandy Alderson, and it certainly helps the Mets 318 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 1: in their metamorphosis. That Cohen is extremely rich, exceedingly rich 319 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 1: even by billionaire standards, and you start the piece with 320 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 1: Cohen giving everyone a raise at Alderson's request. Why is 321 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 1: that significant? I think that this is sort of how 322 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 1: the Mets should always have been behaving, right, like this 323 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 1: is the biggest mark it in the country and they 324 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 1: should should act like it, and over the past several 325 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 1: decades they have not really. I mean, I guess the 326 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 1: past decade is more accurate because it was after the 327 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: made off scandal, which the Crevier, the Mets, the Wilpons 328 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: were heavily invested in, that they really stopped being able 329 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 1: to make payroll almost They were taking out loans from 330 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 1: the league, and it became sort of a sort of 331 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:27,600 Speaker 1: a silly situation where like scouts were getting pulled off 332 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 1: the road because they didn't want to pay for their expenses. 333 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 1: Good Morning, The New York Mets shut out from new 334 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 1: funds from Major League Baseball. Sources tell the New York 335 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 1: Times the league is not willing to give any new 336 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:39,640 Speaker 1: substantial loans. They were really starting to nickel and dime things. 337 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 1: And you know, these are the New York Mets. They 338 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: should be. They could be on par from in a 339 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 1: lot of ways with the New York Yankees. And so 340 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 1: I think we get an owner like Steve Cohen who 341 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 1: has the money that he has, and he shows up 342 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 1: and one of his first act is to spend it 343 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 1: on the people who worked there. I think that says 344 00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 1: to your employees, Okay, this might be a little bit different. 345 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 1: Pay your people more. Ends up working out great. Otherson 346 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:06,120 Speaker 1: told you that it improved morale. You mentioned the previous owners. 347 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 1: How bad was morale under the Wilpons post Bernie made 348 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 1: off scamp. I think it just started to feel ridiculous 349 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:14,920 Speaker 1: a lot of the time, Like why didn't they have 350 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:18,120 Speaker 1: Old Timer's Day before the last this year? Because it's 351 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: expensive to have all Timers Day you have to pay 352 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 1: for you have to pay for it, and so they 353 00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 1: didn't want to do that. Like why didn't the retire 354 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:26,159 Speaker 1: numbers you have to pay for it, and so some 355 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:28,359 Speaker 1: of these, some of the places that they cut costs 356 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 1: I think felt ridiculous. And the Wilpons, you know, it 357 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 1: was not a totally bad ownership experience. You know, they 358 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 1: made they made it to the World Series. They the 359 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:40,879 Speaker 1: team was interesting, but I think by the end it 360 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:45,120 Speaker 1: was starting to feel like a pretty a pretty bad marriage. 361 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:48,879 Speaker 1: So things are obviously going much better now than they 362 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:52,200 Speaker 1: were then, but you wrote that even under Cohen's new ownership, 363 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 1: they still have some old mets to them. Cohen's first 364 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 1: GM was fired. Jared Porter sent explicit unsolicited text to 365 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:00,720 Speaker 1: a female reporter. Zack Scott reply paced him. He was 366 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 1: fired for allegedly driving under the influence after a team fundraiser. 367 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 1: We should note that Scott was acquitted. One review of 368 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 1: workplace culture led to the firing of the heads of 369 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: the legal and HR departments. The players were no better. 370 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:17,639 Speaker 1: Francisco Lindor reportedly grabbed second baseman Jeff McNeil by the 371 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 1: throat last year, and then Lindour, Javier Baiez, and Kevin 372 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 1: Pollar began booing fans when they were playing well, which, 373 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:26,600 Speaker 1: honestly stuff. I thought it was hilarious. That was like 374 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 1: the first thing the Mets had ever done. When I 375 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 1: was like, hey, good job Mets. But clearly they had 376 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:35,640 Speaker 1: a lot to do to change the culture, right, it 377 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:37,920 Speaker 1: was too silly. Francis Pilndor told me he felt like 378 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 1: it was an unprofessional organization last year, and I think 379 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 1: you can see that in the way a lot of 380 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:46,440 Speaker 1: people involved with the behaved. So what what changed them 381 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 1: with the culture this year? Obviously they're doing well. They 382 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:52,440 Speaker 1: meant at top the NL East all season. We mentioned 383 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 1: that the Braves are closing in on them, but there 384 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:56,399 Speaker 1: had to be a pretty significant shift in the way 385 00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 1: they operated. Yeah, it's a few things. One is that 386 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:03,920 Speaker 1: just the players are older. They've added some sort of 387 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 1: like notable adults in that clubhouse, so there's not a 388 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 1: lot of people who, you know, Buck sometimes likes to 389 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:12,399 Speaker 1: talk about eliminating sympathetic ears, like there are not a 390 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:15,359 Speaker 1: lot of people in that room anymore who will listen 391 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,640 Speaker 1: to you patiently while you're ripe about how your life 392 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 1: feels hard because you got in late on a charter flight. There. 393 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:25,439 Speaker 1: Buck basically he once saw that players at a previous 394 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 1: team we're sort of browsing in the clubhouse, and he 395 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 1: came in and said, oh my god, did the did 396 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 1: the checks bounce? You guys are like, well, he was 397 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:35,720 Speaker 1: like did did? Surely you're not the only reason you 398 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:37,639 Speaker 1: could be behaving like this is because you're not getting 399 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:40,159 Speaker 1: paid millions of dollars to play baseball game, right, And 400 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 1: they were like, well, we'll know, and he was like, okay, 401 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 1: then I don't want to hear it. And so that 402 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 1: you know, there's like a little bit of a red 403 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:48,920 Speaker 1: ass quality to that. That is probably not that he's 404 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 1: able to leaven with other uh the other ways he 405 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 1: interacts with them, But I do think that that attitude 406 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:59,400 Speaker 1: of shut up, play better has been really helping to them. 407 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 1: And then there is also it just helps to have 408 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:05,400 Speaker 1: the most funny you can just go. You can buy 409 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 1: the best players, you can buy the best equipment you 410 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 1: can you can do kind of whatever you want that 411 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 1: you think will help. In the second year of owning 412 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:15,440 Speaker 1: the team, poem and so I think that he's found 413 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:19,119 Speaker 1: his footing and they're they're pretty willing to drop cash 414 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 1: on things that they think will help. I like that 415 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:25,960 Speaker 1: attitude from Buck Shall Walter. I'm wondering what you make 416 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 1: of him. I got to cover him in another life 417 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 1: a long time ago, because I'm old, but I always 418 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:33,120 Speaker 1: liked Buck shall Walter, and I like that approach where 419 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 1: he's sort of no nonsense on that front. Yeah, I 420 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 1: can see why sometimes his act gets tired at teams 421 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:40,359 Speaker 1: where he sort of wears out as welcome. But I 422 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:43,399 Speaker 1: think he's pretty much the perfect manager for this group 423 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:46,680 Speaker 1: because I think they had they had like some babies 424 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:49,240 Speaker 1: in the clubhouse last year. There were there was not 425 00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 1: enough accountability. There was people were focusing on the wrong things, 426 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 1: and he doesn't have patience for that. And he also 427 00:20:56,200 --> 00:21:00,919 Speaker 1: has a pretty good way of empowering veterans to speak 428 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:04,240 Speaker 1: up in moments like that. So there's you don't get 429 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:07,720 Speaker 1: the sense that that sort of thing is acceptable because 430 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:10,160 Speaker 1: the manager doesn't doesn't put up with the coaches don't 431 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:13,239 Speaker 1: put up with it, and the veteran players don't put 432 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 1: up with it. And so you know, I was talking 433 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 1: to Taylan Walker about this, and he said, the stuff 434 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:20,199 Speaker 1: about the thumbs down and the fake hitting coach and 435 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:22,880 Speaker 1: the rat raccoon, all the nonsense from last year, none 436 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:24,960 Speaker 1: of that would have gotten this far because Buck would 437 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:26,919 Speaker 1: have sniffed that out immediately and put a stop to it, 438 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 1: so we wouldn't the media wouldn't even have heard about 439 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 1: it because it wouldn't have gotten pasted him. He doesn't 440 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:33,399 Speaker 1: spend a lot of time in the clubhouse because he 441 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:36,439 Speaker 1: thinks that's the player's room, but he does manage to 442 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:38,480 Speaker 1: have his finger on the pulse. It's it's a pretty 443 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:40,879 Speaker 1: good balancing act. I think he does. It's done a 444 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:42,160 Speaker 1: really good job, and I think he does a good 445 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:45,120 Speaker 1: job to have listening to these guys. I think he's 446 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:47,679 Speaker 1: been criticized in the past for being maybe ruling with 447 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:49,159 Speaker 1: too much of an iron fist, being a little bit 448 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: too much with pain, But here he's very good at 449 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:54,919 Speaker 1: checking in with his veterans. When the team is going 450 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 1: to make a roster move. Very often the veteran players 451 00:21:57,600 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 1: will know about it before it happens, and so they 452 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:01,400 Speaker 1: can prepare it for it. If you know, if they're 453 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:04,399 Speaker 1: gonna send somebody down or release somebody, he tells the 454 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 1: players beforehand so that they can be ready to cush 455 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,240 Speaker 1: on the blow on the clubhouse. And I think getting 456 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:14,439 Speaker 1: that level of buy in from your veteran's important. And 457 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 1: you would mentioned it's not just buck too right. I mean, 458 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 1: there there are adults in the room. I like that 459 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 1: you wrote that Max Scherzer leads to professionalism parade. Tell 460 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:26,920 Speaker 1: us about Max and the professionalism parade. Max is very 461 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:29,440 Speaker 1: He's a big accountability guy. A lot of these guys 462 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 1: are big on accountability. And I asked him when that 463 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 1: became important to him, and said he had had a 464 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 1: really good season when he was with the Diamondbacks and 465 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:41,400 Speaker 1: he sort of thought like, Okay, I've kind of got 466 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 1: this figured out. And then the next year he was 467 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 1: one of the worst pitchers in baseball. And that made 468 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 1: him realize that if you for one second think you 469 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:52,639 Speaker 1: know what you're doing this game, will we'll turn you 470 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:55,160 Speaker 1: upside down. He realized that you really have to every 471 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,160 Speaker 1: day figure out what you've done right, what you've done wrong, 472 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 1: what you can do better. You have to focus on 473 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:03,159 Speaker 1: those small steps and he has tried to bring that 474 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:05,320 Speaker 1: to his career ever since. And so he does things 475 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:08,640 Speaker 1: like after an outing, you know, this is Max chers 476 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 1: or he's a fairly intimidating guy. He's you know, so 477 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:14,399 Speaker 1: he could intimidate his teammates, but he pulls them all together, 478 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:16,720 Speaker 1: the other starting pitchers after he comes out of a start, 479 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 1: and he says, what did you guys see like good 480 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:21,720 Speaker 1: and bad? Tell me what you saw, because in that moment, 481 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,919 Speaker 1: he says, is when you can best learn from whatever happened. 482 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:27,959 Speaker 1: And so they've got this sort of adorable little tradition 483 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:29,919 Speaker 1: now where as soon as the starter comes out of 484 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 1: the game, the other starting pitchers swarm him and they 485 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:36,920 Speaker 1: talk about his outing, and they feel comfortable saying what 486 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:38,639 Speaker 1: they think he did well, what they think he didn't 487 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,720 Speaker 1: do well, because if you can say that to, you know, 488 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 1: this future Hall of Famer on your staff, surely you 489 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 1: can talk to David Peterson about what he needs to 490 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:49,199 Speaker 1: work on. And so that sort of willingness to have 491 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,160 Speaker 1: your performance taken apart and to look for what can 492 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:55,440 Speaker 1: be better. It sets an example. But it also he's 493 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,840 Speaker 1: vocally saying this is what we should be doing. So 494 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 1: all that sounds good. Time should be good. They're playing well, 495 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,640 Speaker 1: they're getting along, there's no drama, and yet they are 496 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,399 Speaker 1: still the Mets not exactly great with the media. They 497 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 1: had agreed to make front office stafforts available to you, 498 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:13,800 Speaker 1: and then didn't You got Alderson but not Cohen. Cohen 499 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 1: isn't Will Pond, but he also has some problems to 500 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,320 Speaker 1: tell us about his day job and why it's a 501 00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:22,880 Speaker 1: bit dodgy. Sure, I mean, nothing is is just one 502 00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:26,080 Speaker 1: thing right, Nothing is just simply, very simply bad. And 503 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 1: I think Steve Cohen has gotten to the point where 504 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,960 Speaker 1: he can be as successful as he is because he 505 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 1: has some business practices that pump up against lines or 506 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 1: sometimes allegedly crossed them. So for example, his firm settled 507 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:44,040 Speaker 1: basically the largest insider trading case in history, paid the 508 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 1: largest fine for that. However, he was not personally accused 509 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:50,720 Speaker 1: of wrongdoing, and he has denied personal wrongdoing, but he 510 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 1: did oversee a firm that admitted to wrongdoing. There have 511 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:58,119 Speaker 1: been very scrievances filed against him for gender discrimination in 512 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:00,240 Speaker 1: the years since then. They have settled all those, even 513 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:04,199 Speaker 1: says they have denied wrongdoing. But he does bring his 514 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:08,719 Speaker 1: own baggage, and you know, the team continues to make 515 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 1: some sort of goofy mistakes, like the way they handle 516 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 1: the media can be kind of ridiculous. I mean, he 517 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:15,639 Speaker 1: he did oversee the organization when they were firing two 518 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:19,160 Speaker 1: successive general managers, so it's not It's not as easy 519 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:20,920 Speaker 1: as just bringing the guy with the money and things 520 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,159 Speaker 1: get easier it takes some time, I think, to rebuild 521 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,360 Speaker 1: a culture, and it seems like they are doing that, 522 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:28,959 Speaker 1: but it is worth remembering who the people are at 523 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 1: the helm and they are rebuilding the culture. But as 524 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 1: you mentioned, they do still make the goofy Mets mistakes, 525 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:37,879 Speaker 1: like how they handle the media, sometimes even their own media. 526 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 1: They still have a bit of an uncomfortable relationship with 527 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,240 Speaker 1: their broadcasters, right, and they whine about Gary Cone and 528 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:47,320 Speaker 1: Keith Hernandez and Ron Darling. How's that received? Yeah, So 529 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 1: if for people who have people who have not watched 530 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:52,800 Speaker 1: the Mets broadcast, the Mets broadcasters are, if not the 531 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:56,119 Speaker 1: best in baseball, then top two. And part of the 532 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 1: reason that they are such a great watch is it 533 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 1: they're pretty candid about what they're seeing, and often that 534 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:04,879 Speaker 1: means the Mets will make a mistake and the broadcasters 535 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:06,960 Speaker 1: will talk about it for the next three innings. Why 536 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 1: Jason were because he's a fool, That's why. And so 537 00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:16,200 Speaker 1: if you are met, you might not appreciate that. Fans 538 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,240 Speaker 1: love it because they really learn about the game, but 539 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:20,639 Speaker 1: the Mets are like, this guy is on my team plane, 540 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 1: why does it sound like who's rooting against me? And 541 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,399 Speaker 1: so every year. A couple of times a year there's 542 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:29,600 Speaker 1: some little issue where they start right, but it's it's 543 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,120 Speaker 1: pretty passive aggressive. They don't usually get into it physically, 544 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:34,920 Speaker 1: although that has happened, but for the most part, they 545 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,400 Speaker 1: just start kind of complaining that these guys aren't nice 546 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:40,680 Speaker 1: enough for them. And one thing I thought was really 547 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 1: interesting is that that hasn't happened this year. And it's 548 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,320 Speaker 1: not just because they've been playing better. It's not just 549 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 1: because of the sort of accountability culture. It's because buckshow 550 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:52,000 Speaker 1: Walter muted the TVs in the clubhouse, so they just 551 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 1: can't hear Yeah, just why would we Why would we 552 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 1: let this be a problem. We don't need to watch 553 00:26:57,640 --> 00:26:59,439 Speaker 1: the game with the volume on. We know what's happening, 554 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:01,640 Speaker 1: so they just they can't hear it. If only they 555 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:03,879 Speaker 1: had thought about sticking their fingers in their ears sooner, 556 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:05,840 Speaker 1: all the problems would have gone away. I love that, 557 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 1: all right. I want to end this by asking you 558 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,639 Speaker 1: the very questions that you pose at the beginning of 559 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:17,720 Speaker 1: the piece and the nutgraph. Our attitude, personnel and money 560 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:21,479 Speaker 1: and one competent season enough to erase decades of dysfunction stuff, 561 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 1: But simply can this possibly continue. Can the Mets avoid 562 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,960 Speaker 1: being the Mets in perpetuity? We're gonna see. They've made 563 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:30,800 Speaker 1: it through most of the season this way, and that's 564 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:32,920 Speaker 1: something they hadn't done in a long time. Things are 565 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:36,639 Speaker 1: looking up, but I think for most fans it's what 566 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:38,399 Speaker 1: you do in the playoffs that matters, and so that 567 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 1: will be the ultimate Beside. Yeah, I'm over here acrossing 568 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,919 Speaker 1: all my fingers and toes that they returned to form. 569 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,080 Speaker 1: But we'll say, read her very good piece on the 570 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 1: no good because I'm required to hate them the Mets 571 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,160 Speaker 1: on SI dot com. Excellent piece. I might dislike the Mets, 572 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 1: but I love having her on. Stephanie Epstein, thank you 573 00:27:56,119 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 1: for this, Thanks for having Meg. Sports Illustrated Weekly is 574 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 1: a production of Sports Illustrated and I Heart Radio. For 575 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 1: more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart 576 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. 577 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:24,120 Speaker 1: And for more of Sports Illustrated's best stories and podcasts, 578 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:28,320 Speaker 1: visit SI dot com. This episode of Sports Illustrated Weekly 579 00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,320 Speaker 1: was produced by Jordan Rozsieri, Jessica you r Moski, and 580 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:35,440 Speaker 1: Isaac Lee, who was also our sound engineer, our senior 581 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,800 Speaker 1: producers are Dan Bloom and Harry sward Out. Our executive 582 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:42,480 Speaker 1: producers are Scott Brodie and me John Gonzalez. Our theme 583 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,480 Speaker 1: song is by Nolan Schneider. And if you've stuck around 584 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 1: this long, we leave you with this. Did you expect this? 585 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 1: I mean, I know that a lot of people had 586 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:52,560 Speaker 1: high hopes for the Mets coming to the season, but 587 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,360 Speaker 1: they are still the Mets, and so far, so good 588 00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:58,080 Speaker 1: for them through almost the entire season. Yeah, I don't 589 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 1: think I expected it. I thought there was a chance, 590 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,479 Speaker 1: given the sort of some of the personnel that they added, 591 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:07,000 Speaker 1: but I don't. I didn't expect them to play like 592 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:10,840 Speaker 1: this and to play to do it so undramatically, and 593 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:11,920 Speaker 1: I'm not sure they did either.