1 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 1: Hey there, folks. It is Friday, January thirtieth, and the 2 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:16,640 Speaker 1: case is in the hands of the jury in the 3 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: so called O Pair affair murder trial. Welcome to this 4 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:23,280 Speaker 1: episode of Amy and TJ. We have just been listening 5 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:27,200 Speaker 1: to the closing arguments this morning. Totally different approaches by 6 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 1: the attorneys. We'll get into that, but rogues we've been watching. 7 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 1: This has been a national fascination in a lot of ways, 8 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:34,839 Speaker 1: and as of this moment, been about two hours as 9 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:38,200 Speaker 1: we record this, the jury has been deliberating this man's fate. Wow. 10 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 2: I know we have been watching every moment of testimony 11 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 2: for the past three weeks and to hear the closing 12 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:50,639 Speaker 2: arguments this morning, to hear both attorneys some up their cases, 13 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 2: we had some strong reactions based on all the testimony 14 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 2: we've heard, and you think about how unbelievable this trial was. 15 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 2: To hear from the O pair herself and then to 16 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 2: hear from the husband himself and have their dueling testimony 17 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:11,680 Speaker 2: be at the heart of this case, and the jurors, 18 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:16,480 Speaker 2: according to the prosecution, literally has to decide who they believe. 19 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: Don't know how effective that strategy was. We will get 20 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 1: into that because as we are recording this, folks. We 21 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: just had a lunch in which we sat and we 22 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 1: couldn't come up with where we fall. If we were 23 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 1: a juror and we were forced to take a vote, 24 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:33,319 Speaker 1: we don't really know which way we would go. We'll 25 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:35,120 Speaker 1: get into what we think this jury is going to do, 26 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 1: but yes, you're up on it by now. Brendan Benfield 27 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 1: accused of killing his wife and a stranger in a 28 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 1: plot in which he arranged for him to come over 29 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: and then take the fall for his wife's death, but 30 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 1: end up murdering them all in a plan he hatched 31 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 1: with the O pair that he was in an affair 32 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 1: with at the time. The pair O pair testified in 33 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 1: this trial that there was this elaborate plot. Brendan Bamfield 34 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: testified it wasn't the case at all. She's just trying 35 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 1: to get out of jail, so she did anything the 36 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 1: prosecution would tell her. Okay, we're all caught up, good, 37 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 1: so here we are roll. This is it. This is 38 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 1: the last thing that the jurors get to hear from 39 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 1: either side. Closing arguments. The prosecutor went first, Defense went next, 40 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 1: Then the prosecution got a rebuttal. The prosecution went up 41 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:23,239 Speaker 1: twice and still took a quarter of the time probably 42 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:25,240 Speaker 1: that the defense did and his what did you think 43 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 1: about that strategy? She was very quick. 44 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 2: I was shocked. I was shocked that her first her 45 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:33,959 Speaker 2: closing arguments, this is her last chance to convince the 46 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 2: jury that the state proved beyond a reasonable doubt that 47 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 2: Brendan Banfield is a diabolical double murderer. Right, And she 48 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:50,640 Speaker 2: took less than twenty minutes and basically very quickly, very hurriedly, 49 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:54,640 Speaker 2: kind of just went check check check, check, check check. 50 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 2: And she she was leaning in on the notion that 51 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 2: come on, you and I we know this is let's 52 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 2: just use our common sense, like come on, So she 53 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 2: was that was her attitude. It was kind of like, yeah, 54 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 2: we get it, like you're not gonna fall for this, right, 55 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 2: And I just don't know that that It wasn't effective 56 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 2: for me. I was turned off by it. 57 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 1: Well, we kept saying evidence, what evidence did she lean on? 58 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 1: And she didn't. She leaned on a circumstantial case. And 59 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 1: I think her closing arguments robe confirmed for me what 60 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:32,800 Speaker 1: I was suspicious about during the case, that this is 61 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 1: just circumstantial, that they don't have hard evidence that there 62 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 1: is not a smoking gun. And when you have all 63 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 1: of this on the line and you decide to take 64 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 1: fifteen minutes just to say, yeah, this is a jury instruction, 65 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: do this and you're all going to convict him, right, 66 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 1: I mean, come on, we know like that just doesn't 67 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 1: Every answer was come on, that doesn't make sense. Well, 68 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 1: why didn't he do this? Really? Maybe I know in 69 00:03:57,680 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 1: that situation what I would. It was kind of just 70 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: it was all circumstantial. Her closing today, if I was 71 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 1: a juror, it hurt because this was an opportunity to 72 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 1: the questions I have, bring them home for me. Her 73 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 1: last two witnesses duds, one of them an embarrassment, and 74 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 1: then this closing. They did not have a strong last 75 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:19,800 Speaker 1: couple of days. 76 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:23,600 Speaker 2: She seemed shaky. She seemed like maybe she knew she 77 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:27,160 Speaker 2: didn't have the strongest case and was trying to almost 78 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 2: posture like obviously, obviously we know he's guilty. It was 79 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 2: that was her attitude. And I also think about this. 80 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:43,720 Speaker 2: The reason why it took investigators or police more than 81 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 2: a year to arrest Brandon Brendan Banfield was because they 82 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:52,279 Speaker 2: needed to have the au pair tell the story that 83 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 2: they needed her to tell and that could be the truth. 84 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:57,479 Speaker 2: I'm not saying it isn't in order for them to 85 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 2: have enough to arrest Brendan Banf And what we saw 86 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 2: in court today I'm sorry these past few weeks confirms that. 87 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 2: And what we heard from her in her closing arguments 88 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:11,159 Speaker 2: confirms that. Then, Nanny, if you don't believe the old pair, 89 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:14,719 Speaker 2: they don't have a case and they knew that from 90 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:15,279 Speaker 2: the beginning. 91 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:18,920 Speaker 1: I'm just thinking about this now, Sweart about the old pair. 92 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 1: Go back to that for a second. Did they had 93 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:29,239 Speaker 1: done all of this investigative work before they turned her? Correct? Meaning, 94 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 1: if your case was strong enough and you had enough 95 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 1: evidence to arrest this guy, then you would have arrested 96 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 1: him based on evidence. And there's a reason, yes we're 97 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:42,600 Speaker 1: here now. That for me as a juror listening. 98 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 2: To that, and normally you would think, and I know 99 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:48,839 Speaker 2: there is no normal, that's a silly word, but typically 100 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:54,040 Speaker 2: you would see police arrest both co defendants at the 101 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 2: same time. You wouldn't have them arrest the one and 102 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 2: keep that person in behind bars for more than a 103 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 2: year up until two weeks before the trial, and lean 104 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 2: on them so heavily and offer them this deal where hey, 105 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 2: you could be facing life in prison. You could be 106 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 2: going to prison for the rest of your life. And 107 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:15,920 Speaker 2: I know you're only twenty three years old, but your 108 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 2: life is over now. Or if you testify against your lover, 109 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 2: and here's the version events that seems to fit. If 110 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:26,679 Speaker 2: you testify to this, you can get out of jail 111 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 2: immediately with time served, to go back to your home country. 112 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 2: Oh and by the way, you've got plenty of media 113 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:37,720 Speaker 2: paying for and we heard the defense kind of detail 114 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:40,920 Speaker 2: this today and they're closing arguments, paying for your commissary, 115 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 2: paying for the little things that prisoners need to just 116 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 2: get around in prison. So you've got media companies throwing 117 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 2: money at you. Now, you've got Netflix offering you a 118 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 2: potential deal. You've got book deals in the works. Yeah, 119 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 2: all of a sudden, instead of being in prison for 120 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:59,280 Speaker 2: the rest of your life, you're free and you can 121 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:00,600 Speaker 2: actually profit off of this. 122 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 1: Well, everything we're talking about is circumstantial. Yes, all that 123 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 1: makes me think, yeah, she has an incentive to lie, 124 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: But that's just me jumping to a conclusion based on circumstances, 125 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 1: not based on any freaking evidence, which is my problem today. 126 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 1: And the prosecution her closing didn't button up things that 127 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 1: I had left open. Questions we have about timing and 128 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 1: fet life and who set up this account, and why 129 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 1: does it appear that the fet life account is being 130 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:36,239 Speaker 1: used while Brendan in and the old pair are gone. 131 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 1: Explain that to me. All she kept saying about the 132 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 1: digital evidence is, well, we don't know for sure who 133 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: was behind that device unless she were sick. You were 134 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: sitting right there next to the person. But Rob, she's 135 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 1: treating the jurors like they're stupid. We understand that, ma'am, 136 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 1: But there are other circumstances that lead us to believe 137 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 1: that we could say pretty surely who was on the laptop. 138 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: She never landed that. She never even tried to. 139 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 2: Yes, And the defense did actually in their closing arguments 140 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 2: talking specifically and actually went through and I appreciated this. 141 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 2: Dates and timestamps of where Brendan and his devices were 142 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 2: outside of the home. Juliana and her devices were outside 143 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 2: of the home, and the only person who was at 144 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 2: home with devices was Christine, And in those moments there 145 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 2: were several instances where those were the times where Christine's 146 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 2: devices went on to fet life accessed that suspect Gmail 147 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 2: account accessed another messaging surface that was associated with the 148 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 2: fet life account that has not been accounted for, and 149 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 2: that is the reason why the defense had two forensic 150 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 2: experts say we cannot support the cat fishing theory. 151 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 1: Do it for me, then account for that for me 152 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:53,319 Speaker 1: as a juror. You're trying to reconcile that the prosecution 153 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: is saying this account was set up by Brendan Banfil 154 00:08:57,440 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 1: and the olpair as a part of a cat fishing scheme. 155 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:06,560 Speaker 1: I have digital evidence that shows Christine Banfield was the 156 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 1: one using fet life. Help me reconcile them, babe. If 157 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 1: Christine knew about it and was operating it, how can 158 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 1: I vote him guilty? 159 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 2: Because now how could he have planned this elaborate catfishing 160 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 2: scheme and murder If Christine is the one who was 161 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:27,679 Speaker 2: accessing her fet life I'm simplified. 162 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 1: I think we said this maybe if she was in 163 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 1: control of that fet life account, is this game over? 164 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:38,680 Speaker 1: If you believe that she knew about it or was 165 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:42,320 Speaker 1: operating it. Does this mean he's not guilty and you 166 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:43,680 Speaker 1: have to vote that way? Babe? 167 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:46,840 Speaker 2: It means there's reasonable doubt. I think that's where I 168 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 2: am because I can honestly say I don't know, and 169 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 2: that's a problem for the prosecution. 170 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 1: But you don't know if she knew about the account 171 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 1: or not. 172 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 2: I am so confused, right, and I cannot come up 173 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 2: with I can't come up with a scenario that makes 174 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 2: me feel confident beyond a reasonable doubt that it was 175 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 2: only Brendan and Juliana vio Pier who had access to 176 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 2: the Gmail, the fet life and the messenger service. 177 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: Where I have no confidence that they were in control. 178 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 1: I don't have confidence that Christine was in control. So 179 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:22,960 Speaker 1: do I send the man to prison for the rest 180 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 1: of his life based on a coin toss of who 181 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 1: I believe him or her? Because both of them are 182 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:32,560 Speaker 1: problematic witnesses. 183 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 2: And yes, the truth is probably somewhere in between. But 184 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 2: the problem, the big problem for the prosecution, well, they've 185 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 2: got a lot of problems, but your star witness, who 186 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 2: you need the jurors to believe to make this version 187 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 2: of events, to make this narrative work, is problematic because 188 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 2: she's been massively incentivized to say whatever the prosecution tells 189 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:59,239 Speaker 2: her to say, period point blank. That's kind of undeniable. 190 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:05,200 Speaker 1: She shot a guy, she shot a guy the fatal 191 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 1: shot and he died. She's convicted of murder as we 192 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:15,079 Speaker 1: speak right which nvicted, and she's going home free. Done. 193 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 1: That is a hell of an incentive life in prison 194 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 1: or I get to go home today and I need 195 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 1: to get on the stand and say what do you 196 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 1: need me to say? Not sure? I can say that, 197 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 1: no problem. 198 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:26,679 Speaker 2: And then when she was cross examined she didn't remember anything, 199 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 2: not a guy ida. I don't know. I don't know. 200 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 2: That was problematic for me because I'm thinking to myself, 201 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:35,320 Speaker 2: if you are really now telling the truth and now 202 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:39,320 Speaker 2: actually coming clean, why can't you remember the details that 203 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:42,320 Speaker 2: you would need to know if the scenario in which 204 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:45,560 Speaker 2: you want us to believe happened, you would have remembered. 205 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:47,560 Speaker 1: When did you set it up? Don't know where were 206 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 1: you in the house, don't know who grabbed Christine's laptop? 207 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:51,840 Speaker 1: Can't remember when did you put it back? Don't know 208 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 1: how long did you have it? Can't remember were you 209 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 1: in the basement? Not sure we're in the kitchen now, No, 210 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 1: where's Christine think she was upstairs? 211 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 2: Who wrote this email? Who wrote that? I don't know? 212 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 2: I don't remember every time. That's a problem. 213 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 1: A problem. 214 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 2: That is a problem. And look for the prosecution to 215 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 2: say that it was up to the jury who they 216 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 2: believed more, that's also a problem. Like that was how 217 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 2: she was like, that was her big thing. I can't 218 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 2: remember that one big moment. 219 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:24,080 Speaker 1: Damn it. What was that moment when she said and 220 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 1: then she said yes, she said, what was that line? 221 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 1: Oh my god, please please please, because we said if 222 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:31,679 Speaker 1: if you were a politician, you would clip it right 223 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 1: there and run that against her time and again on 224 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:38,080 Speaker 1: television she said something we could not believe. They said 225 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 1: that the defense is accusing us of da da da 226 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 1: da da, And then she said, yes that it was unreal, 227 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:49,320 Speaker 1: but she made but your point. She was saying to 228 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 1: the jury, you gotta pick the side Juliana or Brendan. 229 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 1: She really laid it out to them, like this case 230 00:12:57,240 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 1: is not about evidence. It's about whether or not you 231 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 1: believe him or believe her shit. 232 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:03,679 Speaker 2: And look, that might be true, but she's basically at 233 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:06,080 Speaker 2: that point shooting herself in the foot saying, yeah, our evidence, 234 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:09,080 Speaker 2: we've got nothing. Our evidence sucks. So really it's kind 235 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:10,680 Speaker 2: of who you believe. I was like, why are you 236 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:13,680 Speaker 2: acknowledging that your evidence is like She didn't mean to 237 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:16,440 Speaker 2: say that, because the breast before she was talking about 238 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 2: how great her evidence was, and then in the next 239 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:20,440 Speaker 2: breath she was saying, well, basically, you just have to 240 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 2: decide who you believe, Juliana or Brendan. 241 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:26,439 Speaker 1: By the way, she said that in some of her 242 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 1: last breaths. This was some of the last stuff she 243 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 1: said to the jury. Who you going to believe? 244 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 2: Who? 245 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:37,400 Speaker 1: You got so hard? She almost a got twenty. 246 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 2: Five year old who wants to go back home and 247 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 2: doesn't want to be in prison anymore. 248 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 1: You know, she or the guy who's been married for 249 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:46,959 Speaker 1: nineteen years to a woman, has had no history of violence, 250 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:50,200 Speaker 1: no history of domestic violence, no history of anything violent 251 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:51,599 Speaker 1: in his background. 252 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 2: And lots of history of affairs. 253 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 1: And this was the one with a twenty one year 254 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 1: old for six weeks and all of a sudden he 255 00:13:57,080 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 1: wants to plot this murder. Oh what stay with us, heer, folks. 256 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 1: We will now get into we come back after the break. 257 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 1: The brilliance that we thought from the defense, the guy 258 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 1: who everybody has been kind of hard on because he's 259 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:14,200 Speaker 1: had some difficulties. 260 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:16,559 Speaker 2: He's a little fuddled, he's a little unorganized. 261 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 1: Incredibly, but he might be a damn good defense attorney. 262 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 1: Stay here all right, continuing here on Amy and TJ. 263 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 1: The jury has been deliberating as of this recording about 264 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 1: two hours in the old Pair affair murder trial happening 265 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: in Fairfax County, Virginia. Brendan Bamfield on trial closing arguments 266 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 1: for today. Who knows how long this jury is going 267 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: to deliberate? I always say, and they always say it, 268 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 1: if it's coming up on a vacation or a weekend, 269 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 1: don't be surprised to get a quick verdict because they're 270 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 1: trying to get out of there. 271 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, but this one's tough. All this one is tough. 272 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 2: And you know, we talked before the break. We teased 273 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 2: at least that we were going to talk about how 274 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 2: impressed we were with the defense attorney and his closing argument. 275 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 2: So you had the prosecution go less than twenty minutes 276 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 2: in her closing arguments in a very different approach. The 277 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 2: defense attorney was up for an hour and a half, Yes, 278 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 2: so he had to take a break in between, or 279 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 2: at least the judge asked for a break in between, 280 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,760 Speaker 2: which I thought was unusual. I've never seen a closing 281 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 2: argument broken up like that. But yes, he went for 282 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 2: an hour and a half and where the prosecution just 283 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 2: kind of was like, he wove this story. He was 284 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 2: a storyteller, and he made things make sense, and he 285 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 2: tried to explain some of the question marks that a 286 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 2: lot of us had after the testimony, after Brendan Banfield's testimony, 287 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:47,960 Speaker 2: and he wove it together, and he gave a version 288 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 2: to the jury that was digestible. 289 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 1: Yes, when points came up that I wondered about, I 290 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 1: didn't have to ask the question out loud. He explained 291 00:15:57,960 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 1: there was blood evidence. He said, well, yeah, it had 292 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 1: that way because of this, this, this, and it could 293 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 1: have been this. He gave another option. The prosecution left 294 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 1: me hanging, just said what the evidence was, but didn't 295 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 1: have an explanation for it. It could be this, or 296 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 1: it could be that he filled in a blank where 297 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 1: she left the blank for me to figure out on 298 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 1: my own. That works. 299 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 2: I appreciate, Yes, I agree, and I appreciated the fact 300 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 2: because one of my big questions is I'm one of 301 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 2: the things I've had a hard time getting over from 302 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 2: a common sense or just why would it happen that 303 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 2: way standpoint? And I think jurors do imagine that why 304 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 2: would Joe Ryan stab Christine when a gun is trained 305 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 2: on him? And the defense attorney clearly he actually said, so, 306 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 2: why would Joe Ryan stab Christine Banfield? He said, maybe 307 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 2: he was scared, he was angry, he had a gun 308 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 2: pointed on him at him. He freaked, he panicked, he 309 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 2: was pissed. He thought this woman set me up, you know, 310 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:01,720 Speaker 2: or this police. Maybe he thought he was gonna kill everybody, 311 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 2: you know. Maybe he was gonna get out of there 312 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 2: by Yeah, now he's caught. He's got a man saying 313 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:08,480 Speaker 2: police with a gun on him. He's desperate. 314 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:11,920 Speaker 1: Desperation works for me, and I don't, I don't, never 315 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:16,240 Speaker 1: had me. He gave a scenario in a very a 316 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:18,639 Speaker 1: room that's small on close proc this was a scary, 317 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 1: terrifying situation, and he clearly was surprised. I think everybody 318 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:24,879 Speaker 1: there understands. If anybody didn't have any idea what was 319 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:27,159 Speaker 1: going on in that room, it was Joe Ryan. He 320 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:29,600 Speaker 1: gave a scenario robes and it made sense. But in 321 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 1: that whole scenario, the defense attorney explained something about the 322 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 1: knife that you and I want, what the actual hell 323 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 1: there were no there was no evidence, no DNA, nothing 324 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:46,200 Speaker 1: on that knife from Brendan Banfield. And there were also 325 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 1: no wounds on Brendan Banfield's hand. So he is accused 326 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 1: of violently stabbing his wife seven times with this knife. 327 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 2: No it. 328 00:17:56,359 --> 00:17:59,160 Speaker 1: Look, if you watch any true crime, you've seen enough 329 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:02,119 Speaker 1: of these stories. The person who does the stabbing oftentimes 330 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 1: has their hand all cut up in a lot of ways. Okay, 331 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 1: maybe it didn't happen this time, but how does he 332 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 1: get his DNA off the knife but still have Joe 333 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 1: Ryan's and blood and everything else on it. 334 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 2: I'm telling you that was jaw dropping to me in 335 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:17,400 Speaker 2: this closing argument by the defense to imagine that Joe 336 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 2: Ryan's hands were cut up, they had knife injuries that 337 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 2: would be consistent with someone stabbing another person, and he 338 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 2: had all of the different blood on him. So how 339 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 2: did Brendan Banfield manage to stab his wife, not get 340 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:39,159 Speaker 2: any DNA on that knife, and not get any wounds 341 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 2: on his hand? Doing that seven times? And they were 342 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:44,880 Speaker 2: deep and we heard about just what types of wounds 343 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:49,000 Speaker 2: she was contending with in her neck, seven of them. 344 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:52,160 Speaker 2: That's hard to imagine. When I heard the defense attorneys 345 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 2: say that, you know you start to go into this 346 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 2: logical part of your brain and you just think, wait, 347 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:00,159 Speaker 2: that doesn't make sense. How could he have pulled that off? 348 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 2: And that little amount of time. I don't know what 349 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:04,159 Speaker 2: the time was between when they called nine one one 350 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:07,760 Speaker 2: and when police and paramedics arrived, just. 351 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 1: When the moaning was important. That's why that moaning nine 352 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:11,639 Speaker 1: one one call. 353 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:14,439 Speaker 2: Whether it was the dog or whether it was Joe Ryan. 354 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 2: But I and like, it's just confusing to me how 355 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:21,919 Speaker 2: And by the way, Christine didn't die right away. She 356 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:25,400 Speaker 2: died in the hospital. So I'm wondering if Brendan really 357 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 2: did stab her and kill her, is he panicked now 358 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:30,920 Speaker 2: that she's going to survive, that she's going to survive 359 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:32,880 Speaker 2: and tell the real story. I was thinking about all 360 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:35,400 Speaker 2: of that too. Why not make sure she's dead first 361 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:36,640 Speaker 2: before you call nine one one? 362 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:39,120 Speaker 1: There was another good point. Wow, I didn't think about 363 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:41,160 Speaker 1: that scenario the other one. And this was the one 364 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:45,400 Speaker 1: that finally for me. The timing of the steps twelve 365 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:48,400 Speaker 1: twenty four to twelve forty one, excuse me, seven twenty 366 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:52,359 Speaker 1: four to seven forty one. They're able to track Juliana's movement. 367 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 1: They know he's at McDonald's the morning of the killing. 368 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:57,639 Speaker 1: They know her their's surveillance video. No, that's not in question. 369 00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 1: They are tracking her based on her whatever watch or something. 370 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 1: Her steps stop at seven point twenty four because she's 371 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:09,680 Speaker 1: outside in the car with the child. She doesn't move 372 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:13,200 Speaker 1: again until seven forty one. Brendan Bamfield is not at 373 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:16,919 Speaker 1: the house between seven twenty four and seven forty one. 374 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 1: Somebody in the house is using the laptop for the 375 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 1: fat Life account. Please tell me what's up. So does 376 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:28,159 Speaker 1: that either mean she just happened to discover it on 377 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 1: her laptop the very morning that the man was coming 378 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 1: to for this fetish or was it her account? Babe? 379 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 2: Was she communicating with him? 380 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 1: Babe? 381 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:44,480 Speaker 2: Well, I know that's incredibly difficult to try and explain 382 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:46,359 Speaker 2: to fit the prosecution's theory. 383 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:48,160 Speaker 1: So tell me how they explained it. Did you ever 384 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:50,360 Speaker 1: hear them account for that or did they just keep 385 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:53,919 Speaker 1: saying well, since nobody was right there, we don't know 386 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 1: exactly who was using it, Or do they say well, 387 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:57,680 Speaker 1: Juliana probably got back in the house. 388 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 2: They didn't specifically that, They did not specifically address that. 389 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:05,520 Speaker 2: And to know that Juliana, Juliana didn't have any steps 390 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:08,440 Speaker 2: would also imply that she wasn't back in the house, 391 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:11,120 Speaker 2: and they could also see where her devices were, so 392 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:14,200 Speaker 2: that's a tough one to get around. I just also 393 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:16,720 Speaker 2: thought one of the most effective lines from the defense 394 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:20,959 Speaker 2: attorney was when he talked about Juliana and her testimony. 395 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 2: He said her entire story has been bought and paid for. 396 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:29,840 Speaker 2: And when he said that, that landed for me. I 397 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:32,399 Speaker 2: just thought, there's really no other way to put it. 398 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:34,639 Speaker 2: And it was so interesting to hear in the rebuttal 399 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 2: the prosecution getting the final world word. She kept saying, 400 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 2: why would she do this for ten thousand dollars, meaning 401 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:43,359 Speaker 2: that's how much Netflix was offering to pay her for 402 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:45,680 Speaker 2: her story. She wouldn't do all of this for ten 403 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 2: thousand dollars, No, lady, she did this for her freedom. 404 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,480 Speaker 2: So she didn't acknowledge, and I thought that was really 405 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:54,879 Speaker 2: not smart on her end, because anyone you treat us 406 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:58,360 Speaker 2: like we were stupid, obviously the jury is our thinking. No, 407 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 2: she's tested buying against Brendan. Yeah, okay, maybe she might 408 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:04,880 Speaker 2: make money down the line, but that wasn't her motivation. 409 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 2: Her motivation was freedom. Her motivation was freedom, period. 410 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 1: You just helped thank you. I thought you were piecing 411 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 1: it together. Oh she remembered. That was it, Babe, His 412 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:22,959 Speaker 1: line about the story being bought and paid for the rebuttal, 413 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:26,760 Speaker 1: She got up there said, you know what the defense 414 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 1: accuses us. They say her story has been bought and 415 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:35,400 Speaker 1: paid for. Yes, you're right. That was it. That was it. 416 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 2: And then she went on to say, so was she really? 417 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 2: But would she really do all of this for ten 418 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:40,199 Speaker 2: thousand dollars? 419 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:43,880 Speaker 1: And that's what I was saying, was hilarious. They say 420 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: she's been bought and paid for? Yes? And then she continued, 421 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:52,359 Speaker 1: but that was It was enough of a beat that 422 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:56,159 Speaker 1: it landed for me that, oh she's acknowledging. Does she 423 00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 1: mean to do that? 424 00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 2: You looked at me and you said, did she just 425 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,919 Speaker 2: say yes to that? And I was like, yep, she 426 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:04,119 Speaker 2: really just did that. And we thought, man, can you 427 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:06,080 Speaker 2: imagine if you were running for office and you made 428 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:08,359 Speaker 2: a speech, you would literally just take that clip and 429 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,080 Speaker 2: just air it over and over again in your paid 430 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:13,800 Speaker 2: commercial to convince everybody like, yeah, here's the truth. She 431 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 2: said it herself. 432 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 1: Accidentally let it out. This has been a doozy, and 433 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 1: we both said, look, if you have been falling along 434 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 1: with us. As we've been following on this trial. We 435 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:27,159 Speaker 1: have essentially, Robes listened to ninety plus percent of the 436 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:29,640 Speaker 1: testimony in this trial. We have seen just about all 437 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:32,360 Speaker 1: of it. And as we sit here today, we never 438 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:34,359 Speaker 1: really can't predict what a jury is going to do, 439 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 1: so we will predict what we would do, Robes, if 440 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 1: you were on that jury, walk in as soon as 441 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 1: we walk in, after we get the case, and we 442 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:47,639 Speaker 1: take that straw vote right now, everybody, before we go 443 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:49,760 Speaker 1: over with evidence, let's just show a hands. Who thinks 444 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,119 Speaker 1: he's guilty, who thinks he's not guilty? Your hand is 445 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 1: going where? 446 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 2: So I think right now I would be in the 447 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 2: not guilty camp, but not because I don't think he 448 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:02,879 Speaker 2: didn't do it. I think he very well may have 449 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,919 Speaker 2: done it, but I don't think the state proved that 450 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:08,280 Speaker 2: he did it the way they said he did it 451 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:09,440 Speaker 2: beyond a reasonable doubt. 452 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,680 Speaker 1: Same thing, first vote, not guilty. All right, going through 453 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 1: the evidence, I don't know where we'll land, but I 454 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:17,639 Speaker 1: am open. It's just too much of a question, and 455 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:21,199 Speaker 1: I have too many questions about credibility of one of 456 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:25,199 Speaker 1: your witnesses, which you're admitting I have to send this 457 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:28,000 Speaker 1: man to jail for the rest of his life based 458 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:31,879 Speaker 1: on testimony that was bought and paid for from a 459 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:35,640 Speaker 1: witness who has every incentive to lie, who actually can't 460 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:39,920 Speaker 1: remember a damn thing, and actually wasn't that convincing or 461 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 1: or apologetic or sympathetic or remorseful on the stand. 462 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:49,280 Speaker 2: Her testimony was not credible enough for me to send 463 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:52,240 Speaker 2: a man to prison for the rest of his life. 464 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:55,879 Speaker 2: I just don't think there was enough actual evidence to 465 00:24:56,160 --> 00:25:00,679 Speaker 2: back up her version against his version for me to 466 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:02,479 Speaker 2: feel comfortable as a juror. 467 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,520 Speaker 1: I'm willing to listen to my fellow jurory. I want 468 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 1: to listen to another argument by all means, But right 469 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 1: now this is a tough one. What do you think 470 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 1: that was what we would do? What do you think 471 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:13,960 Speaker 1: this jury is going to do right now? Official prediction is. 472 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 2: Either I think it's either hung jury or not guilty. 473 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:20,639 Speaker 2: I don't think they're going to come back with a 474 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:21,359 Speaker 2: guilty verdict. 475 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,480 Speaker 1: I'm going with hung. How did we do on the 476 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 1: predictions on Walshin Diddy? I think I was wrong on Walt. 477 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 2: I think I was wrong on both. So don't listen 478 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:35,480 Speaker 2: to what we're saying. But I just look, because you know, 479 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 2: the interesting thing is the folks who are making these 480 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 2: decisions also don't have legal backgrounds. They're like you and me. 481 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 2: Perhaps maybe we've seen more trials than most and have 482 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,520 Speaker 2: watched outcomes more often than not. And I will say, 483 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:51,400 Speaker 2: having watched them for the last three decades, usually mostly 484 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:53,880 Speaker 2: jurors come back with guilty verdicts. I mean that has 485 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:57,639 Speaker 2: been my experience at least. It does take a lot 486 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:01,960 Speaker 2: a very good defense attorney a lot of times to 487 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:06,159 Speaker 2: put enough doubt in juror's minds for them to question 488 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,000 Speaker 2: what a prosecutor what a police officer was telling them. 489 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 2: But in this case, you have two detectives who work 490 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:17,720 Speaker 2: with the Fairfax County Police Department flat out, flat out 491 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:21,760 Speaker 2: testify for the defense and throw the prosecution's theory in 492 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:25,120 Speaker 2: the mud. And for me, those two guys were so credible. 493 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 2: I don't think Juliana was that credible, and I don't 494 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:30,240 Speaker 2: even know if Brandon was that credible, But those two 495 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:34,199 Speaker 2: forensic digital forensic experts were credible enough that that for 496 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:38,439 Speaker 2: me is the reason why I would vote not guilty. 497 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,639 Speaker 1: Right now, you say credible enough, they were the most 498 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 1: overwhelmingly credible people on the stand as far as the 499 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:46,719 Speaker 1: detectives go, because so many of them were up there 500 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:50,000 Speaker 1: trying to defend their work, trying to justify why they 501 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 1: did this, or that they had a dog in the fight. 502 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:54,679 Speaker 1: They did have a side that they have picked. I 503 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:56,720 Speaker 1: got two guys up here saying, I'm just going where 504 00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,640 Speaker 1: the evidence goes, and it tells me that prosecution theory 505 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:04,400 Speaker 1: is bull. Those were two very credible witnesses. We didn't 506 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,199 Speaker 1: even mention them until here at the end that that 507 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:08,280 Speaker 1: might tip the scales. 508 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 2: I think it does, because also it's not good for 509 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 2: their careers. It's not good for them to not agree 510 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,760 Speaker 2: with what their supervisors wanted them to come to. Those 511 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 2: supervisors clearly wanted them to reach a conclusion that they 512 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:22,720 Speaker 2: didn't reach, and I thought that was admirable that they 513 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:24,959 Speaker 2: stuck to their guns based on their experience and their 514 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:28,480 Speaker 2: expertise and did not let a supervisor or someone higher 515 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,159 Speaker 2: up with in the police department kind of twist their 516 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 2: arm into saying something different. That gave them so much 517 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,680 Speaker 2: more credibility because there's no incentive for them career wise 518 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:38,240 Speaker 2: to take the stances they've taken. 519 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:41,920 Speaker 1: Folks will keep an eye Verdict Watch is officially underway. 520 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:43,840 Speaker 1: We will hop back on if anything happens tonight. But 521 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:45,600 Speaker 1: if they don't get a verdict tonight, they will be 522 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,639 Speaker 1: going home for the weekend and coming back on Monday 523 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:50,600 Speaker 1: and trying again. We shall see if they try to 524 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:53,920 Speaker 1: get out of there before the weekend roads. But folks, 525 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,359 Speaker 1: we always appreciate you going along with us on TJ. 526 00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 1: Holmes will behalf of my dear Amy Robock. Thank you 527 00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 1: for listening, and again, uh keep an eye on our feet. 528 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:03,680 Speaker 1: We will let you know if something else happens to that. 529 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:13,159 Speaker 2: H m hm