1 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:11,240 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Savor production of I Heart Radio. 2 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 1: I'm Any and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we have 3 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:19,159 Speaker 1: an episode for you about turtle soup. Yes, and what 4 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 1: a wild ride it is? Oh my heck, yeah, yeah, 5 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:25,640 Speaker 1: this is right. This is one of those ones where 6 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: like I was like, oh, yeah, this is a okay. 7 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 1: So so like Marta Grass coming up and I was like, 8 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 1: all right, Like, what's a dish that New Orleans is 9 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: famous for that we haven't really dug into yet. Uh, 10 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 1: Commander's Palace is sort of famous for having turtle soup. 11 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: You had some moile we were there, Um, let's talk 12 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:45,519 Speaker 1: about that. And then you get into the history and 13 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 1: it's just bonkers. It's just like what the heck we're 14 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 1: humans up to? What were they doing? And why? Holy heck? Yes? Yes, 15 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: And it was one of the times where we kept 16 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 1: having to remind ourselves we are a food show. Yeah, 17 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 1: turtles are cool and weird. It was difficult listeners, it really, yes. Um. 18 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: I just before we started, I had to like close 19 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: a side quest tab that I had just opened about tortoiseshell, 20 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:23,839 Speaker 1: like as a material um, because we have to record 21 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:26,680 Speaker 1: this episode and I can't today. I cannot today. Were 22 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 1: a food show ostensibly. Ostensibly we do have some fun facts. 23 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 1: We did bad facts this one. UM. I did. Just 24 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:42,320 Speaker 1: remember before we did this, some of you listeners know, 25 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:46,200 Speaker 1: I know, Lauren knows, I have not a great history 26 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 1: with pets. Um, you're no faults of my own, I 27 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 1: would like to say, but some of it was fault 28 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 1: of my own. This was all like as a young child, 29 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 1: I did have a pet turtle. Um. I believe his 30 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 1: aim was it was one of those like really bad 31 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 1: puns like Shelly. I don't think it was Shelly, but 32 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 1: it was like that one level. I had a pet 33 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 1: turtle and my older brother had a pet snake and 34 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 1: we went on a vacation and we bought them both 35 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:22,639 Speaker 1: with us. Oh yeah, that's ambitious, it certainly was. And uh, 36 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:26,359 Speaker 1: We're going to go out to lunch, and I put 37 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:30,360 Speaker 1: up this whole big fuss about like, look, we can't 38 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:33,799 Speaker 1: leave my turtle with the snake because the snake will 39 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:36,639 Speaker 1: kill my turtle and it will be so tragic. And 40 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:39,120 Speaker 1: my parents were like, that's really not how it works. 41 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 1: They'll be fine. Um. So we kept them in the 42 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 1: same like aquarium situation, and we returned from lunch and 43 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 1: both were dead because my turtle had tried to eat 44 00:02:56,800 --> 00:03:08,640 Speaker 1: the snake and choked. And so yeah, more turtles. UM, 45 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 1: I'm sorry that I just laughed so hard at that. 46 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:14,640 Speaker 1: Um no, it's pretty funny hindsight. I'm sorry to the 47 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:17,960 Speaker 1: turtle land the snake. Do you do harshly sneak? It 48 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 1: was the turtle that was the threat. I yeah, no. 49 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:25,920 Speaker 1: And turtles yeah, um, turtles have a lot of ire 50 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 1: in their hearts. Um, they do not like us, and 51 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:32,639 Speaker 1: I think that this history will reveal why. It will. 52 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 1: Indeed it will indeed, uh to kind of give us 53 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 1: an up note after that story, I also recently hung 54 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 1: out with a good friend of my friend of the show, Marissa, 55 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 1: and it's it's a long, confusing, convoluted story, but essentially 56 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 1: she just said in the middle of a conversation, uh, 57 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 1: that's like turtle talk, and expected us all to know 58 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 1: what she was talking about. And it took, I would say, 59 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 1: a solid set the minutes before we got to the 60 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 1: bottom of what she was talking about, which is Crush, 61 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: the animated turtle from Finding Nemo has this thing called 62 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 1: turtle talk at Disney World where he talks to you 63 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 1: m turtle talk. And I bring it up because this 64 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 1: is actually something that came up in the research, a 65 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 1: lot of sort of this like cutification or anthropomorphizing of 66 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 1: turtles in the story of turtle soup and why it 67 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 1: sort of fell out of favor. But it just made 68 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 1: me laugh because she was so certain we would all 69 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 1: know what turtle talk was, Like, clearly it's turtle talk obviously, right. Um, yeah, no, 70 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:42,599 Speaker 1: that's not I had not heard of that before either, 71 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 1: So I'm glad, thank you for elucidating um. Always. Yeah, 72 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 1: it was very funny. It was one of those conversations 73 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 1: I wish I had recorded. Um, But all right, Uh, 74 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 1: you can see our New Orleans mini series for more 75 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 1: few popular during Mardi Gras, just kind of a general 76 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:08,840 Speaker 1: contextualization history of that culinary scene. And yes, I did 77 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:11,159 Speaker 1: have some I had some turtle soup when we were there. 78 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 1: But I guess this brings us to our question. I 79 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 1: suppose it does in a very interesting way. Yes, turtle soup. 80 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:29,600 Speaker 1: What is it? Well, turtle soup is a category of 81 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 1: soups made with turtle meat, though these days a mock 82 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:35,600 Speaker 1: turtle soup is probably more common in a lot of 83 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:38,599 Speaker 1: places um, which is a category of soups made with 84 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:42,039 Speaker 1: turtle substitutes, and of course, like making a meat into 85 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:45,039 Speaker 1: a soup, can take just about infinite forms, depending on 86 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 1: the exact cut of meat in question and what other 87 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 1: ingredients you incorporate and how you season it. And indeed, 88 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 1: various cultures around the world make all sorts of soups 89 00:05:55,480 --> 00:06:00,600 Speaker 1: using turtles, but in the English speaking world, and specifically 90 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 1: in the US and extra specifically in New Orleans, a 91 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 1: turtle soup often refers to a a hardy tomato based 92 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 1: soup that's thickened with a with a toasty rou season 93 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:14,159 Speaker 1: with worcestera shear sauce and aliens um and sweet and 94 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 1: spicy peppers, brightened with lemon and parsley, and smoothed out 95 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 1: and sort of sweetened with sherry upon serving. All with 96 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 1: this with this rich undercurrent of turtle stock and little 97 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 1: bits of meat um mock. Turtle soups usually use beef 98 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 1: or veal as a substitute. And like you know how, 99 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 1: you know how some soups are almost like a gravy 100 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 1: kind of um, like a sipping gravy. It's it's, it's, 101 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 1: it's one of those um it's it's one of those 102 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 1: uh savory and silky and stick to your bones like 103 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 1: a like a meaty tomato soup like gumbo. Took a 104 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 1: hard left at Albuquerque and now it's not sure where 105 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:56,040 Speaker 1: the heck it is. Um it's it's old fashioned and 106 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 1: a little fussy in a way that also feels um 107 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: homey and and modern to me, which to me is 108 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 1: just absolutely New Orleans. Like that is the vibe. Yeah, yeah, 109 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 1: I agree. It's got like all these kind of steps, 110 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 1: like the adding of the sherry at the end that 111 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 1: feels very New Orleans to me, kind of that final 112 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 1: touch all right, yeah, and like and having write like 113 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 1: a tradition around it, having like at like it's not 114 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 1: just soup like you right, you have right right, Yeah, 115 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 1: Like there's uh not in every place, but in a 116 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 1: lot of places. Area's kind of a serving whole yeah, 117 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 1: ritual around serving at the soup love it um Okay. 118 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 1: So turtle is a darker type of meat with them 119 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 1: a richness like like a chicken thigh or pork, but 120 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 1: a little bit of the chew and brininess and sweetness 121 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 1: of like clam. Yeah. Um, it's been compared to to 122 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 1: frog legs if you're familiar with those, and turtle turtle 123 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 1: itself is gonna be a whole different episode or series 124 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 1: of episodes at some point. Um but but yeah, these 125 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 1: are usually um aquatic or semi aquatic reptiles with an 126 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 1: internal skeletal structure and the large external shell that's fused 127 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 1: on the types of turtles used today can vary. It's 128 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 1: often snapping turtle. Um. Traditionally speaking, you would make a 129 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:22,400 Speaker 1: stock from like bone in turtle and then use that 130 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 1: stock in creating the soup. For mock turtle soup, you're 131 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 1: probably using beef stock, and to build the flavor and 132 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 1: the body of the soup, Yeah, you start with a 133 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 1: room um, which is butter and flour cooked together to 134 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 1: make in this case like a toast colored paste um. 135 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 1: Then add a version of merpoi or dice Aarabatic vegetables 136 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:43,560 Speaker 1: that's called trinity or holy trinity, which consists of onion 137 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 1: and celery and bell pepper um. After they soften, you 138 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 1: start adding stock until you approach the consistency that you're 139 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 1: going for, and also add in whatever meat you're using, 140 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 1: either ground or chopped um, plus crushed tomatoes or maybe 141 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 1: tomato juice and your seasonings. Seasonings can vary that worce 142 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:04,199 Speaker 1: to shear sauce, Cayenne, pepper, paprika, nutmeg, and cinnamon are 143 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 1: all pretty common. Um. And then yeah, after simmering everything together, 144 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 1: you finished with stuff that you don't want to to 145 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:15,200 Speaker 1: to get cooked down. Um, lemon juice and or zest, parsley, 146 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 1: maybe some chopped hard boiled eggs and some dry sherry. Um. 147 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 1: The sherry can also be added at the table if 148 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 1: you are yes going for that ritual kind of situation. 149 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: For mock turtle soup, the meat might be ground beef 150 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 1: or chopped veal or um the meat pulled from a 151 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:36,439 Speaker 1: boiled calf's head um, which is like really specific when winter. 152 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 1: When turtle meat first became real expensive, calf's head was 153 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 1: considered like the best substitute. Although these days it's probably 154 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:46,959 Speaker 1: just as difficult to get a hold of. So yeah, 155 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:51,840 Speaker 1: mileage may very um. If you are looking for turtle meat, UM, 156 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:54,840 Speaker 1: check a check your local Asian supermarket. Um. But you 157 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 1: can also buy it online. Yeah. And yeah, turtle soup 158 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 1: these days is mostly served places that are like marketing 159 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 1: a historical sort of vibe. In cities like New Orleans 160 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 1: or Philadelphia. It can be an appetizer or a main course. Um. 161 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 1: In some places it might be called snapper soup or 162 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:15,840 Speaker 1: terrapin soup, based on the species of turtle that was 163 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:22,560 Speaker 1: traditionally used in that area. Mm hmmm mmmm well what 164 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 1: about the nutrition? It depends, It depends. It's a soup, 165 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:29,440 Speaker 1: it depends on what you put in it. Um. But 166 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:33,440 Speaker 1: but I will say that, like generally there's like this 167 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:35,960 Speaker 1: is like a real heavy soup. So there's like a 168 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:40,319 Speaker 1: lot of butter involved, which is great tasting. Um. Uh, 169 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 1: it's you know, I don't eat eat eat a vegetable. 170 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:47,440 Speaker 1: You know, turtle is not a vegetable. Kind a moment 171 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 1: where I like, wait a minute, Oh yeah, firing on 172 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 1: all cylinders today, Oh yeah, oh yeah, we have a 173 00:10:56,920 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 1: couple of numbers slash facts for yeah, okay, alright, so 174 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 1: like yeah, we have like one bullet point of numbers. Um. 175 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 1: As of two thousand and eight, China was farming um 176 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 1: three hundred to six hundred million turtles a year UM 177 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 1: worth some seven hundred and fifty million dollars. Yeah. Um. 178 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:24,960 Speaker 1: The mock turtle was featured in Alice's Adventures in Wonderland. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, 179 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:28,680 Speaker 1: um when she goes through the through the keyhole and 180 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 1: hangs out with right, the mock turtle and the and 181 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:33,560 Speaker 1: the griffin, and they have like a silly race and 182 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 1: the mouse tells its long sad tale and then she 183 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 1: cries a lot um and they all float away honestly 184 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 1: of her tears. Oh wow, that's such a fun thing 185 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 1: to hear, kind of about a context. I really liked it. Yeah. 186 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 1: As we discussed in our Alice episode, describing anything from 187 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 1: those books is uh fun task, difficult, fun, strange task. 188 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, um, alright, one one more? Okay, So 189 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 1: as a riff on the candies that are called turtles, 190 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:13,680 Speaker 1: which are like chocolate covered like bits of caramel and nuts. Yeah, 191 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:17,440 Speaker 1: Ben and Jerry's had an ice cream flavor in the 192 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 1: early twenty ADS called turtle soup. Oh, turtle soup. Yeah, yeah, 193 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:28,319 Speaker 1: I forgot about that. My dad used to get me 194 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 1: turtles every Christmas. They were good, they were good. I've 195 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 1: told the story before. But I would always get the 196 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 1: dark chocolate ones, right, no chocolate ones, and my younger 197 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:44,200 Speaker 1: brother would get the white chocolate ones. Yeah turtles. Well, wow, 198 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:47,240 Speaker 1: we have quite the history for you. Oh heck, we do, okay, 199 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 1: and we are going to get into that as soon 200 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:50,320 Speaker 1: as we get back from a quick break for a 201 00:12:50,320 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 1: word from our sponsors, and we're back. Thank you sponsored, Yes, 202 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 1: thank you. And uh so turtles, oh dear, Yeah, that's 203 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 1: gonna be a whole episode, probably a whole different podcasts there. Fascinating, 204 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 1: honestly fascinating, and they're very very old, and they're like 205 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 1: frequently put in the same kind of category of like dinosaurs. 206 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 1: That's cool. Like I've found some accounts that said that 207 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:31,440 Speaker 1: they're about a hundred and ten million years old sea turtles, 208 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 1: specifically aquatic turtles, um, although some pretty recent developments I 209 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 1: think from put them at closer to two hundred and 210 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: thirty million years old. Okay, alright, cool, yeah, okay, so 211 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:49,679 Speaker 1: they've been doing what they've been doing for for just 212 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:55,120 Speaker 1: a second here for a hot second. Um, Well, archaeological 213 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 1: evidence shows that Paleolithic people were probably eating turtles and 214 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 1: tortoise is as long as four hundred thousand years ago 215 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 1: and what's now Israel. Um so ah, yes, turtles have 216 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 1: been around for a while and we've been eating them 217 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 1: for a while. Yes, And this was one of those 218 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:17,079 Speaker 1: ones where to me, it just makes sense wherever turtles 219 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 1: where people were probably eating them. I couldn't like find 220 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 1: a lot of sources about it, but I imagine, Yeah, 221 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: if turtles were around, people were probably like, can I 222 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:30,360 Speaker 1: eat that? It doesn't move that fast? Let's try. Yeah, exactly. Um. 223 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 1: Local turtles had been a key part of the diets 224 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:39,840 Speaker 1: of Indigenous Americans for centuries prior to European colonization. Um. 225 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 1: But yeah, jumping wetead turtle soup. Turtle soup became popular 226 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 1: in the seventeen hundreds. According to some sources, British soldiers 227 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 1: on the return voyage from the Caribbean would catch wild 228 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 1: turtles um as a source of protein. Um. And they 229 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 1: would also transport some of these turtles back home, where 230 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 1: rich people readily bought them up, snash them up, um, 231 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 1: serving them at these fancy dinner parties and celebrations. At 232 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 1: the height of the turtle trade, Britain was importing fifteen 233 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 1: thousand turtles from the Caribbean a year. But yeah, this 234 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 1: was a far cry from their subsistence beginnings. Yeah. Historian 235 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 1: India mandel Kom wrote the green sea turtle was without 236 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 1: doubt the most expensive status Latin and morally contested feat 237 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 1: of eighteenth century English cuisine. Like by the seventeen fifties, 238 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 1: eating turtle was a huge status symbol and like vaguely 239 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 1: patriotic for the English because like they had successfully colonized 240 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 1: the Caribbean and they could afford to import this kind 241 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 1: of weird animal from there and then eat it. Uh 242 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 1: So it was really wrapped up in this kind of 243 00:15:56,040 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 1: like nationalistic pride about colonization, interesting interest in giving what 244 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 1: happens with like New Orleans and France and England anyway, 245 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 1: huh okay, Well, this dishes popularity extended to the well 246 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 1: to do in the American colonies, um, and it was 247 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:22,040 Speaker 1: adapted based on region two. Um. They even played a 248 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 1: main role like turtle soup UM. And turtles also played 249 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 1: a main role in some post revolution American dishes for 250 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 1: the likes of John Adams. And apparently there was an 251 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 1: elite Hoboken Turtle Club formed and President Lincoln allegedly had 252 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: turtle soup at his inaugural feast. Like it was a 253 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 1: very yeah, I kind of had this like or this 254 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 1: mystike fancy turtles. In Philadelphia, for instance, people would add 255 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 1: sherry just before serving um and at the time in 256 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:06,399 Speaker 1: that area, turtle soup generally consisted of big green sea turtles. Yeah. 257 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 1: And these had to be brought in from the coast, um, 258 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:13,200 Speaker 1: and possibly from further down south. Their their fat layer 259 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 1: has this greenish tinge that might have kind of colored 260 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:21,680 Speaker 1: the soup a little bit. I'm not sure, y. Yeah, 261 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 1: which was the thing? Which was the thing you wanted? 262 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:27,879 Speaker 1: The well, some people wanted that green tinge? Yeah. Um. 263 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:30,680 Speaker 1: And these turtles could vary wildly in size, but generally 264 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 1: fell between fifty to three hundred pounds. And because of 265 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:36,120 Speaker 1: the size and price of the turtles, they were often 266 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:41,440 Speaker 1: the centerpiece of a banquet, and people might have even 267 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:45,919 Speaker 1: purchased tickets to attend where there were these turtles at 268 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 1: the centerpiece, to see what all the fuss was about. Um. 269 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 1: I read some of these events were called turtle frolics. 270 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:58,679 Speaker 1: Turtle frolic turtle frolics. Sure, yes, And it wasn't just 271 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 1: private citizens either. Hotels and restaurants would run ads about 272 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 1: their turtle offerings. Yeah. I saw that some right hotels 273 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:15,160 Speaker 1: and restaurants would um would take a turtle shell from 274 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:20,360 Speaker 1: a previous uh frolic. I suppose, um, and uh and 275 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:24,120 Speaker 1: paint like on the shell like hey, basically like, hey, 276 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 1: we have turtle soup here, come check it out, um, 277 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 1: and hang the shell outside. And that was part of 278 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:30,560 Speaker 1: the I mean they would might also run and add 279 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:34,399 Speaker 1: on a newspaper that was not printed on turtle shell. Um. 280 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, and and right. People would keep them 281 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:41,360 Speaker 1: in like big tanks, um until they were ready for use. 282 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:42,800 Speaker 1: And so that was kind of part of the draw 283 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:46,119 Speaker 1: because you get get to see this turtle um. In 284 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:49,840 Speaker 1: In eight I read there was a dinner held in 285 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 1: London for four hundred guests that served pounds of turtle. Wow. 286 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 1: It was a whole thing, sole thing. Oh. By the 287 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:07,879 Speaker 1: eighteen sixties, companies in Texas were canning green turtle okay, 288 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:13,680 Speaker 1: all right, um, and yeah it became this whole thing. 289 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 1: It became like a cultural benchmark that anyone of like 290 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 1: a certain level of sophistication was expected to to know 291 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 1: about and to have had. Um. A Swedish traveler who 292 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:29,399 Speaker 1: visited the United States in the eighteen sixties went to 293 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 1: New Orleans and um was trying to write home about gumbo, 294 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:38,159 Speaker 1: all right, and he used turtle soup as this this benchmark. Yeah. 295 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 1: He said that Gumbo is the crown of all the 296 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:44,160 Speaker 1: savory and remarkable soups in the world, a regular lixir 297 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 1: of life of the substantial kind. He who has once 298 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:50,400 Speaker 1: eaten gumbo may look down disdainfully upon the most genuine 299 00:19:50,560 --> 00:20:03,480 Speaker 1: turtle soup. Who wow, yeah, what a bird? Well uh. 300 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:09,720 Speaker 1: Because of their popularity, turtles were hunted to the brink 301 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 1: of extinction, and because of that, the price of turtle 302 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:18,960 Speaker 1: meat skyrocketed like mind bogglingly so um, pushing turtle meat 303 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 1: out of the price range for most folks. And it 304 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 1: was already like yeah um. Not to mention, most recipes 305 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:32,159 Speaker 1: at the time for turtle meat were extremely complicated and 306 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 1: time consuming, Like some of them were five to six 307 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:38,600 Speaker 1: pages for a recipe, so that's a lot of also time, 308 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:45,120 Speaker 1: yes um, handle glasses. Edition of The Art of Cookery 309 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 1: Made Plain and Easy included some of the earliest English 310 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:51,879 Speaker 1: recipes of turtle with some focusing on the fins, on 311 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 1: the entrails, on the belly, the back of the shell. 312 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 1: Um and the soup. And the soup in this book 313 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:02,439 Speaker 1: is a recognizable version of what we still eat today. 314 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 1: It's a it's a veal broth with with turtle meat. 315 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 1: M clove, nutmeg, cayenne pepper, madeira wine thickened with yeah 316 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 1: yeah um. In her seventeen sixty nine works, the experienced 317 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 1: English housekeeper Elizabeth Raffold wrote, the first course should be 318 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:22,439 Speaker 1: of turtle only when it is dressed in this manner, 319 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 1: but when it was with other victuals, it should be 320 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:27,960 Speaker 1: in three different dishes. But this way I have often 321 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:31,919 Speaker 1: dressed them and have given great satisfaction, satisfaction with the 322 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 1: capital as. I don't know if that was like in 323 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:37,199 Speaker 1: the book. That was just, but I hope that it 324 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:41,639 Speaker 1: was in the book Capital as satisfaction, Capital as satisfaction. 325 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 1: I love it should be turtle only, otherwise I am 326 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 1: out um. But kind of the point being when that 327 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:53,159 Speaker 1: recipe was included in a lot of the articles I 328 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:56,439 Speaker 1: read that it was for the well to do. It 329 00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 1: was like a part of the meal. It was just 330 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:04,159 Speaker 1: way you had turtle. Um. Some early recipes called for 331 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,520 Speaker 1: including the turtle's blood after bleeding it into into the soup, 332 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,600 Speaker 1: and a significant number of American and English cookbooks from 333 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 1: this time included five or more recipes for turtle, and 334 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:16,720 Speaker 1: some people think that's because it was kind of complicated 335 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,720 Speaker 1: to cook or to make like it. It did have 336 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 1: a lot of pieces and a sure and yeah, and 337 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 1: you know, like like where someone might more easily know 338 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 1: what to do with like a chicken, right, there needed 339 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: to be some explanation about how to butcher a turtle, right, yeah, yeah, yes, Okay, 340 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:42,159 Speaker 1: So we're seeing this decline in in turtle, the turtle population, 341 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,200 Speaker 1: we're seeing this really high price. Um, this is where 342 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 1: we get mock turtle soup. Um. And yeah, it's right 343 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,440 Speaker 1: in the name. It's just basically like trying to find 344 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:56,240 Speaker 1: substitution for turtle. That's close enough. Um. Cooks and chefs 345 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 1: experimented until they arrived at a soup that imitated the 346 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 1: flavor and texture of turtle soup. And yeah, it was 347 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 1: typically a combo of calf's head at the time and 348 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,960 Speaker 1: light vegetables. Um. And some even found a way to 349 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 1: make this mock turtle soup green to further mimic the 350 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:14,400 Speaker 1: popular dish. UM. But a note too, it wasn't easy 351 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 1: to make either, and it wasn't necessarily inexpensive Nope, just 352 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 1: less wildly expensive. Right. Uh. And apparently the US government 353 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:28,119 Speaker 1: played a role in pushing this mock turtle soup to 354 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:31,960 Speaker 1: convince the American public who were previously wary of awful 355 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,159 Speaker 1: and you can see your awful episode about that um 356 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:38,240 Speaker 1: to consume it and to pay for it. Uh. And 357 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 1: it worked for a while, but by the end of 358 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:42,760 Speaker 1: World War Two, people were really looking to return to 359 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:49,280 Speaker 1: things like beef, hamburgers and steaks. Sure well, A recipe 360 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 1: published in four going a bit back instructed followers to 361 00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 1: clean and boil calf's head until tender, and then you 362 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 1: would add in veal, ham foul and wine to the mix, 363 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 1: sometimes with meatballs and hard boiled eggs. It's very rich 364 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:10,119 Speaker 1: sounding to me. Um. Other people experimented with various beef 365 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:12,919 Speaker 1: organs to achieve the taste and texture of turtle, but 366 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 1: cast's head was still Yeah, it was generally deemed the 367 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 1: best substitute. However, Mark turtle soup wasn't the only solution 368 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:25,720 Speaker 1: to this shortage of turtles. People in the US also 369 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 1: started turning to local varieties of turtle as well, um, 370 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 1: including the terrapin, a species of turtle native to the 371 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:37,560 Speaker 1: southern and eastern parts of the United States. I think 372 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:39,240 Speaker 1: this story is a little bit hard to pin down, 373 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:42,159 Speaker 1: because I'm pretty sure people were eating these types of 374 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:48,400 Speaker 1: turtles for free. Um. But but this is when people 375 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:50,440 Speaker 1: were like, wait a minute, we could make money off 376 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:55,200 Speaker 1: of this anyway. Um. In eighteen thirty two, a British 377 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 1: actress visiting Philadelphia wrote, came home and supped. I had 378 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 1: eaten nothing since or a clock, and was famished for 379 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,199 Speaker 1: I do not like stewed oysters and terrapins, which are 380 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 1: the refreshments invariably handed round at an American evening party. 381 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:10,960 Speaker 1: And then she went on to write of her father, 382 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:14,639 Speaker 1: quote set off with colonel for Hoboken, a place across 383 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 1: the water, famous once for dueling, but now the favorite 384 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:21,200 Speaker 1: resort of a turtle eating club who go there every 385 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 1: Tuesday to cook and swallow turtle. Oh my, oh my. Um. 386 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,119 Speaker 1: A butcher from New York in the nineteenth century, I 387 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:37,480 Speaker 1: wrote about the diamondback terrapin that they were quote the 388 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 1: best of the turtle tribe. They are usually cooked with 389 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:43,240 Speaker 1: a shell on for the various dishes, and considered best 390 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 1: and fattest. In the months of November, December, and January. 391 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,720 Speaker 1: Female turtles were preferred both for the meat and for 392 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:55,399 Speaker 1: their eggs, which reviewed as almost a delicacy. But you 393 00:25:55,400 --> 00:26:01,679 Speaker 1: can already see the issue right here with the turtle population. Yeah. Um. 394 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 1: Some chefs from the time created a whole reputation on 395 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 1: being able to cook terrapin. Yeah, and apparently President Taft 396 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:16,119 Speaker 1: was a fan. Um. He commissioned a chef specifically for 397 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:21,320 Speaker 1: his turtle soup, and the chef called this Taft Terrapin Soup. 398 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:24,720 Speaker 1: It involved a turtle, four pounds of veal and was 399 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:30,359 Speaker 1: served with champagne. Wow. Oh fancy um. But yeah, it 400 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:34,359 Speaker 1: wasn't long before terrapins were endangered too by about the 401 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:38,119 Speaker 1: early twentieth century um, and this led some chefs and 402 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:41,000 Speaker 1: food writers to press for less people to consume them 403 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:46,679 Speaker 1: unless they had a quote refined palette to appreciate them. Um. 404 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:49,880 Speaker 1: In their minds, the substitutes were good enough to fool 405 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:54,679 Speaker 1: most people. Um. Here's a quote from the time. The 406 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:58,760 Speaker 1: diamondbacked terrapin is wasted on anyone save an epicure of 407 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,840 Speaker 1: very discriminating ballet, and even on him, unless it profit 408 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:05,560 Speaker 1: first by the service of the culinary adept. For the 409 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 1: difference in flesh between the true diamond back and many 410 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:12,119 Speaker 1: masquerading counterfeits is so slight that only the combination of 411 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 1: high professional skill and a keen palette justifies the enormous 412 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 1: difference in price. The flush of the diamond back and 413 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:23,680 Speaker 1: various of its substitutes is alike in being highly gelatinous 414 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:26,960 Speaker 1: and and owing fame chiefly to its adaptability and quick 415 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:34,800 Speaker 1: response to skillful cooking. Wow. Yeah, all right, such a 416 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:39,000 Speaker 1: like what I mean, I get it. But it's also 417 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:43,720 Speaker 1: like day, like all right, I guess I won't eat 418 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 1: that diamond back terrapin. Like that's no, nope, no problem, 419 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:50,399 Speaker 1: you keep it. You keep it. Man, you know a 420 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 1: lot more than me, clearly, don't man displain my turtle 421 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:58,679 Speaker 1: to me. But like all right, um heck uh. But 422 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 1: you know, like there there was a little bit of 423 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,600 Speaker 1: a panic um Like in nineteen o two, the US 424 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:07,440 Speaker 1: Bureau of Fisheries got Congress to pour millions of dollars 425 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:11,600 Speaker 1: into terrapin farming research. They were like, we are, we 426 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,160 Speaker 1: are running out of terrapins. We need them for our soup. 427 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:19,200 Speaker 1: What are we going to do? Right? Yes? So there 428 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:22,960 Speaker 1: was also another turtle that people turned to for the 429 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 1: soup in the US, and that is the alligator snapping turtle. Uh. 430 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,760 Speaker 1: And it became so popular as a soup ingredient that 431 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,880 Speaker 1: it almost led to their extinction in the nineteen sixties 432 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 1: and seventies. According to one collectors of these turtles in Georgia, Um, 433 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:42,480 Speaker 1: they were gathering a ton from a river in Georgia 434 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:46,280 Speaker 1: every day, every day at their peak, and they stopped 435 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:48,720 Speaker 1: when the population had dwindled to the point that it 436 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 1: just wasn't worth their while. Yeah. Um. At one point, 437 00:28:55,720 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 1: Campbell Soup offered turtle soup just like right along tomato souper, 438 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:06,040 Speaker 1: right alongside. Uh. They did discontinue it by the nineteen sixties, 439 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:11,240 Speaker 1: and by the nineteen sixties even mock turtle soup was 440 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 1: fairly rare. Uh. But yeah, we have to step back 441 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:20,160 Speaker 1: again because we've got to talk about prohibition is yeah, 442 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:25,280 Speaker 1: clearly clearly because it actually played a role in the 443 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 1: conservation of the turtle species and the decline of turtle 444 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:33,000 Speaker 1: soup in the US because sherry was a main ingredient 445 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:37,440 Speaker 1: and many turtle super surpees. Yeah, and the downfall of 446 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:40,200 Speaker 1: turtle soup um was really due to this one to 447 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:43,960 Speaker 1: punch between prohibition and the Great Depression, Like you couldn't 448 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,440 Speaker 1: get sherry and turtle was this premium ingredient at this 449 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 1: time when many could not afford the expense. Um, turtles 450 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:53,960 Speaker 1: were going for the equivalent of like a hundred bucks 451 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:59,640 Speaker 1: apiece at the time. H m hmmm. However, through all 452 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 1: of the local turtle was still this subsistence food, Like 453 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 1: like I said earlier, they're kind of free if you 454 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:13,080 Speaker 1: could find. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so go for turtles. Because 455 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 1: of that, became such a key source of meat during 456 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 1: the Great Depression South that they were called Hoover chicken 457 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:26,200 Speaker 1: after the President. Yeah. Um. Something else that didn't help, 458 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:30,800 Speaker 1: as mentioned at the top, animated turtles or otherwise like 459 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 1: cultural turtles that we fell in love with, like Franklin 460 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 1: and Girdle, the Ninja turtles, crush turtle talk with crush um, 461 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 1: and I would say for a lot of people, and 462 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 1: myself included, they kind of became like when you think 463 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 1: of endangered species, you think of the turtle, the turtles 464 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 1: special times of that entire movement. Yeah, exactly, So that 465 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 1: was certainly something that people It was on people's minds 466 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:05,480 Speaker 1: when it came to this dish. Um. In two thousand four, 467 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:10,520 Speaker 1: Louisiana illegalized the commercial collection of alligator snapping turtles. Um. 468 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 1: Restaurants in the state that still offer traditional turtle soups 469 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:17,120 Speaker 1: source their turtles from farms and not wild populations. That's 470 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:18,800 Speaker 1: kind of an older number, So I would love to 471 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 1: know how that's going. Um yeah, because it is from 472 00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:28,640 Speaker 1: what I understand, kind of as you said at the top, Lauren, 473 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:33,480 Speaker 1: relegated to certain areas and restaurants, um and kind of 474 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:35,200 Speaker 1: subject to certain rules. And I feel like they know, 475 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:38,880 Speaker 1: they understand that a lot of people do have this, 476 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:44,520 Speaker 1: like but Frank on the turtle right, not crush? What 477 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 1: about turtle? Doc? Don't you know about turtles are friends 478 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:53,720 Speaker 1: not food? Yeah? Um? Right, No, I mean you know, 479 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,560 Speaker 1: like like I I had a crush on Donna Tello, 480 00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:06,560 Speaker 1: like any normal child growing of course, so indisputable, gosh 481 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:10,800 Speaker 1: um but but but right yeah, so and and and 482 00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:12,920 Speaker 1: there were like a bunch of laws that went into 483 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:17,320 Speaker 1: effect in the nineteen seventies that um that prevented the 484 00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 1: wild collection of turtles. Um. So yeah yeah, And I know, um, 485 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,440 Speaker 1: climate change as always has not helped, um, certainly not. 486 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 1: And also I would love for listeners so you can 487 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:35,520 Speaker 1: We've been pretty much focusing on like English speaking world 488 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:39,200 Speaker 1: and New Orleans specifically, but I know that other cultures 489 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,160 Speaker 1: people eat them as well. So if you can write 490 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:44,480 Speaker 1: in about that, that'd be great. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah. 491 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:49,320 Speaker 1: That this specific phenomenon of like English turtle soup and 492 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 1: then right like like early American turtle soup that has 493 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:58,200 Speaker 1: persisted UM is extremely specific. UM, but oh my goodness, 494 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 1: I want to hear about all of the other turtle 495 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:04,040 Speaker 1: dishes around the world and how and whether or not 496 00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:07,600 Speaker 1: other people messed up their turtle populations as seriously as 497 00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:14,680 Speaker 1: we did. Yes, we certainly did. We certainly did. Ah. Well, uh, 498 00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:17,240 Speaker 1: I think that's what we have to say about turtle 499 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:20,800 Speaker 1: soup for now. We we do. We do have some 500 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,040 Speaker 1: listener mail for you, though, and we are going to 501 00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:24,600 Speaker 1: get into that as soon as we get back from 502 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:26,520 Speaker 1: one more quick break for a word from our sponsors. 503 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,320 Speaker 1: And we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you, And 504 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:49,640 Speaker 1: we're back with Oh my goodness. I was going to 505 00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:53,040 Speaker 1: do turtle talk, but then I should do turtle talk, 506 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:56,640 Speaker 1: but that would be like a surfing dude boys. Okay, yeah, no, no, 507 00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:58,880 Speaker 1: this this this one was good. This one was yeah. There, 508 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:01,800 Speaker 1: I enjoyed it, and I wish that we had that 509 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:06,080 Speaker 1: this was a visual medium, because I will say that 510 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:10,200 Speaker 1: Annie's gesticulation during that um mirroring the movement of a 511 00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:13,640 Speaker 1: turtle of a sea turtle was very very good. Thank 512 00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:15,919 Speaker 1: you well. I have to give you as many tips 513 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:22,160 Speaker 1: as like, Hey, I know it's not easy, so I 514 00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:26,400 Speaker 1: hope it communicated, but I needed it to. It's an 515 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:32,960 Speaker 1: adventure every time. It certainly is. Vivian wrote, I haven't 516 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:34,920 Speaker 1: listened in a long while and finally caught up on 517 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:37,879 Speaker 1: three episodes last night while cooking dinner. Didn't realize till 518 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:43,200 Speaker 1: then how much I missed your voices and banter. Regarding lettuce, 519 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,279 Speaker 1: I think an extremely underrated way of eating lettuce is 520 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:49,520 Speaker 1: actually blanching it or adding it to light soups. Seems 521 00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,520 Speaker 1: sacrilegious to apply heat to a salad vegetable. I know 522 00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:55,080 Speaker 1: that's what I thought when my grandma first served it 523 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:57,680 Speaker 1: in a chicken soup. But cooking it actually really brings 524 00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:00,920 Speaker 1: out a sweetness, as happens with other veggie. They retain 525 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:03,840 Speaker 1: their crunch quite well even when cooked. They're amenable to 526 00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:07,600 Speaker 1: stir frying or even grilling too. Romane lettuce is quite 527 00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:11,760 Speaker 1: similar and in the same genus as a choy literally vegetable, 528 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:15,240 Speaker 1: a which can be served stir fried, steamed in soups 529 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,760 Speaker 1: in Chinese cuisine, So no wonder my grandma thought nothing 530 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:21,560 Speaker 1: of applying the same methods to the same salad green. 531 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:24,960 Speaker 1: Regarding lotus root, thank you for featuring one of my 532 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:28,440 Speaker 1: favorite veggies. I love them every which way, especially in 533 00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:31,520 Speaker 1: pork ripe, soup, in hot pot, and as dessert. As 534 00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:34,840 Speaker 1: you mentioned, lotus seeds are also an excellent addition to 535 00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:38,440 Speaker 1: soups and porridges. Lighten flavor, creamy of texture. There's a 536 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:42,239 Speaker 1: beautiful idiom about the lotus root. It literally translates to 537 00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:46,160 Speaker 1: lotus brakes silk connects, and refers to how when you 538 00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:49,800 Speaker 1: break a lotus root, they're often silk like stringing fibers 539 00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:52,920 Speaker 1: that maintain a tenuous connection between the two halves. It's 540 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:55,759 Speaker 1: a metaphor for a relationship that has been ended, but 541 00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,359 Speaker 1: where the two parties still retain feelings for each other, 542 00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:03,560 Speaker 1: still think of each other. Regarding Limburger, just wanted to 543 00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:07,560 Speaker 1: add that I too, deeply enjoy so called smelly food. 544 00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:10,960 Speaker 1: My favorite cheese is a pois, an orange, dry and 545 00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,160 Speaker 1: soft cheese that is supposed to be stinky, but to 546 00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:16,640 Speaker 1: me is merely pungent. Same goes for Durian. I don't 547 00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:19,040 Speaker 1: think it smells like socks or garbage. At all. It 548 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:22,360 Speaker 1: just smells strongly, like the promise of an incomparable complexity 549 00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:25,600 Speaker 1: and strength of flavor. If you haven't tried it, I 550 00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:31,560 Speaker 1: highly recommend fermented tofu curd sometimes considered Chinese cheese. One 551 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,640 Speaker 1: Jeff is the go to brand and it can come 552 00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:37,239 Speaker 1: in a variety of different flavors. I'm currently going through 553 00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:40,920 Speaker 1: a jar of great blocks dubbed stinky tofu. May the 554 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:45,319 Speaker 1: new year bring you lots of new deliciousness. Thank you. 555 00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:53,000 Speaker 1: Oh I've had a lovely stinky tofu. I really like it. Yeah, no, 556 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:56,919 Speaker 1: I write I I enjoy stuff like that. Um, it's right. 557 00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:00,560 Speaker 1: It's maybe not every day all the time constant, but 558 00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:06,720 Speaker 1: certainly as like oh oh that's that's exciting. Yeah. Yeah. 559 00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,359 Speaker 1: Like I said, I'm pretty sensitive to smell, but if 560 00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:11,959 Speaker 1: I can like get past the smell, then I love, 561 00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:15,839 Speaker 1: like quote stinky things as well. They usually do have 562 00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:18,160 Speaker 1: like the flavor doesn't match the smell in a really 563 00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:22,480 Speaker 1: interesting way. I love. Oh no, absolutely absolutely. The smell 564 00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:25,120 Speaker 1: is usually so much stronger than the flavor, and so 565 00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:26,600 Speaker 1: then you're like, oh, this is nice, this is like 566 00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:31,279 Speaker 1: sort of mild yes, yes, yes, yes, Um I am 567 00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:34,440 Speaker 1: Durian is part of our feast. It's been there forever. 568 00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:37,440 Speaker 1: We will try it. I want to try it. Um. Also, 569 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:40,480 Speaker 1: I apologize if I mispronounced anything in there, but I 570 00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:44,759 Speaker 1: tried my best. And also I love that idiom right, 571 00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:49,920 Speaker 1: Lotus brakes silk connects. That's very I love that beautiful. 572 00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:54,560 Speaker 1: And and yeah, grilled grilled lettuces are so good. Yes, 573 00:37:55,560 --> 00:38:00,399 Speaker 1: one of my favorite things to do. M agreed well, 574 00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:04,040 Speaker 1: Anne wrote, thanks to your episode on benito flakes, we 575 00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:06,719 Speaker 1: have discovered a new favorite snack for our two year old. 576 00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:10,240 Speaker 1: She is obsessed with ungeary filled with soy sauce, Benita 577 00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:13,560 Speaker 1: flakes and prey cocke. Um. I'm sure if you actually 578 00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:16,759 Speaker 1: enjoy kids, but here she is going full feral on 579 00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:19,799 Speaker 1: that combination in a bowl. Um. Maybe one day she 580 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:23,920 Speaker 1: will eat a vegetable too. Okay. And and this, you know, 581 00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:26,640 Speaker 1: came with a very cute video of a baby going 582 00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:33,080 Speaker 1: to absolute town. Absolutely, I love it. Honestly. One of 583 00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:37,319 Speaker 1: my very favorite things about like young children is their 584 00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:41,440 Speaker 1: food taste, because they can be so specific. You can 585 00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:44,120 Speaker 1: be like so picky and then eat a thing that 586 00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:49,680 Speaker 1: I've never heard of and it's the very right, It's delightful. Um. Yeah, no, 587 00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:52,120 Speaker 1: I love other people's kids. Other people's kids are great 588 00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:55,720 Speaker 1: and like not that I have children that I dislike. 589 00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:57,880 Speaker 1: I don't have any kids. I don't want any kids. 590 00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:00,720 Speaker 1: I but but no, but other people's it's our torrism. 591 00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:05,160 Speaker 1: And this one is very cute. Thank you. That's yes, 592 00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:08,520 Speaker 1: and that's a great snack. I mean that I would 593 00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:11,600 Speaker 1: eat that today. I would love that. Yeah, I would 594 00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:13,880 Speaker 1: do I would that. That could very well be a 595 00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:18,040 Speaker 1: video of me. It could be. I've been known to 596 00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:24,080 Speaker 1: go feral on my meals as well. Well. Thanks to 597 00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:26,719 Speaker 1: both of those listeners for writing in. If you would 598 00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:28,279 Speaker 1: like to write to us, you can or email as 599 00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:30,719 Speaker 1: hello at favorite pod dot com. We are also on 600 00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:33,480 Speaker 1: social media. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook, and 601 00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:35,920 Speaker 1: Instagram at savor pod, and we do hope to hear 602 00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:38,480 Speaker 1: from you. Savor is production of I Heart Radio. For 603 00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:40,640 Speaker 1: more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can visit the 604 00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:43,759 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 605 00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:46,160 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our super 606 00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:49,240 Speaker 1: producers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, 607 00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:50,919 Speaker 1: and we hope that lots more good things are coming 608 00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:51,319 Speaker 1: your way.