WEBVTT - Idealogical Totalism with Andrew 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:11.840 Al Zone, Media, isis ALM, Shinrikyu, and Christian sign this on. 0:00:12.600 --> 0:00:15.320 At first glance, these movements appear to have almost nothing 0:00:15.360 --> 0:00:20.360 in common. One is transnational but territorially weakened terror network 0:00:20.720 --> 0:00:24.959 most active into twenty and twenty tens. One was a 0:00:25.200 --> 0:00:29.120 fringe Japanese doomsday culled from the nineties, and one remains 0:00:29.160 --> 0:00:32.800 a powerful political movement embedded in the heart of the US, 0:00:33.280 --> 0:00:37.800 the world's premier imperialist power. The ideologies may be irreconcilable, 0:00:37.840 --> 0:00:40.960 their enemies may be different, and their methods even may 0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:45.040 vary from gorilla warfare to political lobbying, and yet they 0:00:45.080 --> 0:00:48.159 have more in common than meets the eye. Welcome to 0:00:48.240 --> 0:00:51.760 cat Happen Here. I'm Andrew's Sage or andrewsm on YouTube, 0:00:52.080 --> 0:00:57.680 and I'm joined today by Garrison Davis. Hello, Welcome, Welcome. 0:00:58.400 --> 0:01:00.400 So my goal is to try and understand these mounds 0:01:00.440 --> 0:01:04.600 through the lens of ideological totalism, which was a specific 0:01:04.840 --> 0:01:09.320 theoretical framework developed by Robert Jlifton to identify the outcome 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:13.920 of a successful thought reform process, characterized by Denesturish and 0:01:13.959 --> 0:01:18.039 Tim Wolforth In on the Edge as a quote mode 0:01:18.080 --> 0:01:22.840 of absolute conviction, which embeds ideas so deeply in people's 0:01:22.880 --> 0:01:27.520 heads that they grow inoculated against doubt. Ideas cease to 0:01:27.560 --> 0:01:31.160 be provisional theories about the world and instead become secret 0:01:31.280 --> 0:01:34.440 convictions dependent on the word of how old authorities for 0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:39.240 their validation rather than evidence end quote. Lifton saw the 0:01:39.240 --> 0:01:43.920 potential for the emergence of ideological totalism within everyone, but 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:47.760 he noted quote totalistic convictions are most likely to occur 0:01:48.000 --> 0:01:51.360 with those ideologies which are most sweeping in their content 0:01:51.720 --> 0:01:57.320 and most ambitious or messianic in their claims, whether religious, political, 0:01:57.520 --> 0:02:01.640 or scientific. The eight criteria that identified for thought reform 0:02:01.840 --> 0:02:05.080 were milieu control, which is the control of communication and 0:02:05.120 --> 0:02:09.560 information within the environment. Mystical manipulation, which is the orchestrating 0:02:09.639 --> 0:02:13.280 of spontaneous events to save the group's message. The demand 0:02:13.320 --> 0:02:16.280 for purity, which divides the world into black and white, 0:02:16.360 --> 0:02:20.480 good and evil categories. The cult of confession, which pushes 0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:24.000 members to confess past sins and personal feelings to the group. 0:02:24.400 --> 0:02:27.040 The secret science, which elevates the group's dogma to an 0:02:27.120 --> 0:02:31.440 unquestionable truth. Loading the language, which is using jargon or 0:02:31.440 --> 0:02:36.040 cliches to minimize critical thinking. Doctrine over a person, which 0:02:36.080 --> 0:02:40.640 subordinates individual experiences and identity to the group's beliefs, and finally, 0:02:40.680 --> 0:02:44.040 the dispensing of existence, declaring that only those in the 0:02:44.080 --> 0:02:47.520 group have the right to exist. Now, not all of 0:02:47.560 --> 0:02:50.520 these factors may be at play for each of these 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:54.560 specific movements that I would have mentioned, but we still 0:02:54.560 --> 0:02:57.760 see the outcome of this ideological totalism in each of 0:02:57.800 --> 0:03:01.920 these movements, to a very an extent, the systematic erosion 0:03:02.000 --> 0:03:07.200 of individual autonomy in favor of an unassailable authority. Whether 0:03:07.240 --> 0:03:12.200 we're speaking about Isis or Armshriakio, or Christian Zionism within 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:16.280 the evangelical movement, or in any other case, we will 0:03:16.280 --> 0:03:21.239 see how movements replace individual identity with a collective proground 0:03:21.280 --> 0:03:26.240 persona where loaded language and thought terminating cliches make dissent 0:03:26.800 --> 0:03:31.440 literally unthinkable, where the enemy other is manufactured, and where 0:03:31.520 --> 0:03:35.120 power is concentrated so tightly that the leader or the 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:39.160 dogma becomes the only source of truth. So the foundation 0:03:39.240 --> 0:03:43.840 of ideological totalism is the destruction of nuance. To build 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:47.480 a cohesive US and them, they must be clearly defined 0:03:47.920 --> 0:03:53.240 and definitionally polarized. First comes the categorization, where the complexity 0:03:53.240 --> 0:03:57.200 of human identity is reduced into a single non negotiable trait, 0:03:57.600 --> 0:04:01.240 be it religion or nationality or idea geology, and then 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:05.160 comes to humanization, which is stripping the other of human qualities, 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:10.080 transforming them from a person into a threat, impure, an infidel, 0:04:10.160 --> 0:04:14.520 and obstacle. And finally there's enclosure, which creates social or 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:18.680 psychological walls that prevent the US from interacting with them. 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:22.120 This ensures the only information the group receives is that 0:04:22.360 --> 0:04:26.000 of the others perceived malice. In the context of groups 0:04:26.000 --> 0:04:28.640 like Isis, the US versus Them engine is expressed both 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:33.000 ideologically and through physical violence. By committing act of terror, 0:04:33.040 --> 0:04:35.720 the group forces the rest of the world to recognize 0:04:35.760 --> 0:04:39.159 their boundary. There's no cross contamination to be had with 0:04:39.240 --> 0:04:43.400 the infidel world, no middle ground. You're either a part 0:04:43.520 --> 0:04:46.520 of their struggle for a global caliphate or you're an 0:04:46.640 --> 0:04:50.720 enemy to be eradicated, whether you consider yourself a Muslim 0:04:51.120 --> 0:04:55.599 or anything else. With arm serikio, the cults us versus 0:04:55.600 --> 0:04:59.640 them engine operated through isolation in communes and the severan 0:04:59.640 --> 0:05:03.800 excit donal ties them was defined as the corrupted world 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:07.160 or the spiritually dead, and the group sought purity and enlightenment, 0:05:07.400 --> 0:05:11.839 so They targeted the individual's existing social networks, family friends, 0:05:11.880 --> 0:05:16.719 mainstream society, labeling them as sources of contamination. By cutting 0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:19.680 off the member from the outside world, the culton showed 0:05:19.680 --> 0:05:22.720 that the only reality that existed was the one provided 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:26.919 by the leader. Were the political religious Christian Zionists. The 0:05:27.080 --> 0:05:29.919 US versus Them engine is built through a historical and 0:05:30.160 --> 0:05:34.799 eschatological narrative that sees the entire secular world as enemies 0:05:34.839 --> 0:05:38.880 to the apocalyptic ambitions of Christ's return. They are frequently 0:05:38.960 --> 0:05:43.560 warned to avoid worldly influences, temptations from the devil that 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:47.839 might skew them from the righteous path. The other in 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:51.960 all these cases is successfully stripped of their humanity. The 0:05:52.040 --> 0:05:56.800 destruction of the them becomes a logical necessity for the 0:05:56.839 --> 0:06:00.560 survival of the US and the isolation, and shows the 0:06:00.600 --> 0:06:04.600 group's total control over an individual's interpretation of reality. 0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:09.280 Interesting how all these various cultish elements build on or 0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:11.960 use the techniques written about by like Karl Schmidt the 0:06:12.000 --> 0:06:15.960 frind enemy distinction, and how like creating groups like this, 0:06:16.080 --> 0:06:18.159 you know you have to choose like a border point, 0:06:18.640 --> 0:06:21.039 to choose the point that determines what we are and 0:06:21.080 --> 0:06:23.839 what our enemy is, and then in order to keep 0:06:23.920 --> 0:06:26.760 your group active or like safe, that border has to 0:06:26.800 --> 0:06:29.080 be moved, has to always be like like pushing. It 0:06:29.160 --> 0:06:31.800 can't actually stay at the same point. And then you 0:06:31.839 --> 0:06:34.039 see that movement with all these groups, right, they have 0:06:34.080 --> 0:06:37.440 this like milleneriness, like apocalyptic focus, but they're still like 0:06:37.720 --> 0:06:40.359 moving towards this like larger enemy population. 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:43.799 Yeah, I mean you see it in like I mentioned, 0:06:43.880 --> 0:06:49.240 Isis has erected this barrier that separates them even from 0:06:49.600 --> 0:06:53.560 Mostlims who may share some of their other religious convictions 0:06:53.560 --> 0:06:56.680 but do not share their political ambitions. Yeah, you see 0:06:56.720 --> 0:07:00.960 what the evangelical movement, which distinguishes themselves from other Christian 0:07:01.600 --> 0:07:06.559 sects as being heretical or not fully committed to the wood, 0:07:06.680 --> 0:07:08.520 or have gone astray in some way. 0:07:09.000 --> 0:07:11.160 Yeah, I mean you can see that with the evangelical 0:07:11.240 --> 0:07:14.440 leaders and like the president picking fights with the literal 0:07:14.480 --> 0:07:15.840 pope of the Catholic Church. 0:07:16.640 --> 0:07:20.960 Yeah, I mean, the beef between the Catholics and the 0:07:21.000 --> 0:07:24.640 Protestants go kind of kind of far back. You suppose 0:07:24.680 --> 0:07:29.480 at least share this scripture or this overarch in like 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:33.760 religious roomwork, and yet there's still a desire to delineate, 0:07:33.920 --> 0:07:38.400 to separate, to define an enemy even within that cohort. 0:07:38.560 --> 0:07:40.880 And a lot of those like current differences that do 0:07:41.000 --> 0:07:43.680 relate to like military action in the Middle East and 0:07:43.760 --> 0:07:47.600 what's happening in Palestine, like specifically. And I found that 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:50.240 to be an interesting connection as you're as you're talking about, 0:07:50.240 --> 0:07:53.200 you know, specifically like Christian Zionists and how the situation 0:07:53.280 --> 0:07:56.840 in the Middle East is extremely important for their apocalyptic worldview, 0:07:57.280 --> 0:07:59.640 and that is like one of the key differences between 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:03.720 between like evangelical Christians and you know, the current stuff 0:08:03.760 --> 0:08:07.000 like that that the Pope is saying, which is very 0:08:07.040 --> 0:08:08.960 much opposed to what's happening in the Middle East. 0:08:09.400 --> 0:08:14.840 Yeah, because they've constructed this very robust eschatological framework, which 0:08:14.880 --> 0:08:17.160 is the next thing that I wanted to get into. 0:08:27.960 --> 0:08:34.480 The language that these movements use helps to control their people. 0:08:35.040 --> 0:08:38.160 They're controlling people not just through physical barriers, but through 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:44.520 psychological barriers. Yeah, if you can control the vocabulary available 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:47.640 to a person, how a person understands the meaning of words, 0:08:47.640 --> 0:08:50.360 how they understand the meaning of their scriptures, you can 0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:53.240 control the range of thoughts that they're capable of having. 0:08:53.840 --> 0:08:54.040 You know. 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:57.960 That was kind of the point that has cliched this 0:08:58.040 --> 0:09:01.240 point is the point that George Orwell's and when they 0:09:01.240 --> 0:09:04.880 had the Ministry of Truth in nineteen eighty four, that 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:09.200 you limit even language available so that even dissent cannot 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:12.720 be fully expressed. You don't have to censor anybody because 0:09:12.760 --> 0:09:14.319 you've already censored their minds. 0:09:14.840 --> 0:09:18.520 Yeah, and you see that even their own creation of 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:20.920 like phrases and terms across all these groups, Like they 0:09:21.000 --> 0:09:24.120 come up with specific terms of phrase, they just get repeated. 0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:27.440 And that just starts like replacing language if it starts 0:09:27.600 --> 0:09:31.480 filling in the gap of language and communication. So thought 0:09:31.600 --> 0:09:33.480 terminating cliches. 0:09:33.559 --> 0:09:37.040 Exactly exactly thought to any cliches, and also just a 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:41.360 broader cognitive enclosure. So in the case of Shinriqu, you 0:09:41.440 --> 0:09:45.480 had the group using this dense pseudo scientific and pseudo 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:53.079 religious jargon that blended spirituality, quantum physics biology, and those 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:55.280 who are most elevated in that group were able to 0:09:55.320 --> 0:09:58.640 wield that language and make themselves sound so sophisticated and 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:02.600 elevated and on a higher plane of truth and reality. 0:10:02.640 --> 0:10:05.439 That made it very easy for them to swindle people 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:09.679 within their circle. It created a linguistic barrier of the entry, 0:10:09.840 --> 0:10:13.120 so that you couldn't participate even in the group's truth 0:10:13.600 --> 0:10:17.679 without committing to the incomprehensible dogma. 0:10:17.920 --> 0:10:18.240 Yeah. 0:10:18.280 --> 0:10:20.880 And if you don't commit to the incomprehensible dogma, then 0:10:20.880 --> 0:10:22.240 you just you don't get it. You're going to be 0:10:22.240 --> 0:10:25.439 an outside of fever. You are not enlightened, you are 0:10:26.160 --> 0:10:27.200 outside of the truth. 0:10:27.679 --> 0:10:27.920 Yeah. 0:10:28.480 --> 0:10:31.560 And this this is a problem across a lot of 0:10:31.640 --> 0:10:34.080 a lot of different groups, in concluding groups that are 0:10:34.120 --> 0:10:37.960 not this, you know, apocalyptic or fascist or like religiously based, 0:10:38.000 --> 0:10:40.600 but they even see versions of this among like the 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:44.200 contemporary left, yeah, which creates like, yeah, this like barrier 0:10:44.240 --> 0:10:48.040 to entry by using certain like phrases like academic language. 0:10:47.840 --> 0:10:52.320 Yeah, and and very idiosyncratic definitions of words that have 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:55.160 otherwise common definitions yeah. 0:10:55.320 --> 0:10:58.080 No. And and how much politics is like this subcultural 0:10:58.360 --> 0:11:02.520 purpose of like maintaining a certain like subgroup like a 0:11:02.600 --> 0:11:06.920 social circle, versus actually building like mass politics, And how 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:12.400 leadiosyncratic small like purity of groups with their special language 0:11:12.400 --> 0:11:15.520 and these like barriers to entry makes it very hard 0:11:15.559 --> 0:11:19.680 to do larger political organizing that actually goes towards like 0:11:19.720 --> 0:11:20.760 a working class movement. 0:11:21.840 --> 0:11:22.280 Yeah. 0:11:22.559 --> 0:11:26.040 Liftin points out that there is a tendency for ideological 0:11:26.080 --> 0:11:30.560 totalism in a lot of movements as as I had 0:11:30.559 --> 0:11:33.199 have mentioned, so something we have to be on God 0:11:33.960 --> 0:11:36.599 for if we want to avoid falling into these traps. 0:11:37.120 --> 0:11:39.640 And so we look at the example of Amiki in 0:11:39.679 --> 0:11:43.040 this case, but Isis also has a kind of a 0:11:43.080 --> 0:11:48.960 total elimination of nuance through polarized, emotionally charged vocabulary. And 0:11:49.120 --> 0:11:51.360 you have the believer, and you have the infidel, which 0:11:51.480 --> 0:11:54.560 again includes fellow Muslims, you have the peol, and you 0:11:54.600 --> 0:11:58.559 have the corrupt. Every dynamic, every binary is zero sum. 0:11:59.160 --> 0:12:02.240 You know, you either with de califate or you're an 0:12:02.280 --> 0:12:04.840 enemy of God to be wiped out. And within the 0:12:04.920 --> 0:12:10.439 eschatological framework of Christian Zionism, opposing the apocalyptic informed geopolitical 0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:15.120 ambitions is tantamount opposing God's plan. You know, it's like, 0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:18.320 how dare you They use these thought terminating cliches as 0:12:18.320 --> 0:12:22.360 you would have mentioned, things like it is written, it's 0:12:22.400 --> 0:12:26.320 in revelation. You know, it's God's will, and there's no 0:12:26.360 --> 0:12:29.280 way to actually challenge their policies or actions in their 0:12:29.360 --> 0:12:34.280 minds on whether it be humanitarian, legal, or logical grounds, 0:12:34.320 --> 0:12:38.120 because it's like you speaking Greek, I mean, doing something 0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:41.920 like that is like arguing with God. It's like attacking 0:12:42.000 --> 0:12:46.600 their faith, and so we also see these movements stripping 0:12:46.640 --> 0:12:50.080 individuals of the agency for the sake of a transaction, 0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:53.800 the exchange of these self with all its very real 0:12:53.880 --> 0:12:58.400 vulnerabilities and mortality and earth limitations, for a higher purpose 0:12:58.760 --> 0:13:02.160 that is eat you know, and absolute. In the case 0:13:02.200 --> 0:13:05.520 of Amgenrikiu, the destruction of the self was achieved through 0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:10.080 the redefinition of morality that used a distorted interpretation of 0:13:10.240 --> 0:13:16.920 Vadaryana Buddhism and placed the Master's will above all conventional ethics. 0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:21.040 To follow the Master and achieve spiritual evolution, one had 0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:24.199 to abandon the ego with its moral compass and its 0:13:24.280 --> 0:13:28.320 human attachments, and in its place armation. IQ offered the 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:33.440 merit of absolute obedience. By following their leader's commands, even 0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:36.800 those of mass violence that would expose the wider will 0:13:36.880 --> 0:13:39.640 to their threat. The practitioner believed that they were performing 0:13:39.720 --> 0:13:43.680 a ritual act of spiritual cleansing to become an instrument 0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:46.719 of a higher cosmic order. You see the same thing 0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:49.560 with the rise of isis the destruction of the self 0:13:49.640 --> 0:13:54.360 achieved through the total absorption of the individual into the monolith. 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:58.840 The individuals stripped to their specific context whatever nationality or 0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:02.280 background they may have had, and being reduced to a singular, 0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:06.719 functional component of the struggle being given up purpose that 0:14:06.920 --> 0:14:11.200 was compensated with the promise of eternal significance, the promise 0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:15.080 of martyrdom, of fighting and dying for the caliphate, and 0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:18.400 with that the individual could bypass the mundane struggles of 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:22.960 earthly life to secure a police in a permanent, divine reality. 0:14:24.160 --> 0:14:28.320 And the political theological sphere of Christian Zionism, the destruction 0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:30.920 of the self has more to do with relinquishing the 0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:34.560 selfs agency and become an instrumentalized for the sake of 0:14:34.600 --> 0:14:38.240 God's plan by Freeman Israel's ascendants in the Middle East 0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:41.000 as an essential precursor to the Second Coming of Christ, 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:43.320 and when everything in their power to lobby for and 0:14:43.400 --> 0:14:48.080 support it, the movement disregards the genocidal costs for the 0:14:48.160 --> 0:14:53.440 reward being the fulfillment of a divine apocalyptic timeline. And 0:14:53.480 --> 0:14:56.160 so in all three cases, the follower is convinced that 0:14:56.200 --> 0:14:59.240 the destruction of this world as they know it, and 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:02.560 the destruction of the self within it is not a tragedy, 0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:06.120 but actually a kind of liberation. But all three of 0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:08.560 these movements of tragedies for the rest of the world. 0:15:09.000 --> 0:15:12.920 Armisian Rekio deployed chemical weapons in Tokyo subway system. They 0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:16.640 killed thirteen people and injured over fifty eight hundred others, 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:19.600 instill in a long term anxiety for those who live 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:22.000 in the city that their shared space could be the 0:15:22.040 --> 0:15:25.920 site of potential terror and the person sitting next to 0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:29.840 you could be the vessel for a hidden lethal ideology. 0:15:30.600 --> 0:15:35.560 Isis has forcibly displaced millions, killed tens of thousands, and 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:39.560 destroyed ancient heritage sites, all in an effort to erase 0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:42.560 the other, and the Middle East and Africa in particular 0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:47.400 continued to be scarred by its violence. Christian Zionist ideology 0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:50.400 has introduced a variable to the political equation that is 0:15:50.440 --> 0:15:56.480 immune to reason and negotiation, that cannot question its theological justifications. 0:15:57.320 --> 0:16:01.360 Of course, Zionism is not entirely dependent on Christian Zionis support. 0:16:02.000 --> 0:16:06.200 You know, Jewish colonial settlements would have predated British support, 0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:11.320 American support, and Christian Zionis support. But the political cosign 0:16:11.640 --> 0:16:18.120 that Christian Zionis provide within the premier superpower does aid 0:16:18.480 --> 0:16:24.560 in the continued support for the Palestinian genocide. So ideological 0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:30.600 totalism seeks to eliminate pluralism, to eliminate shared truth, and 0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:35.000 to literally kill. But we should not view the rise 0:16:35.200 --> 0:16:39.720 of totalizing ideologies as some freak, isolated phenomenon, because it 0:16:39.800 --> 0:16:43.640 deprives its strength from the very framework and conditioning embedded 0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:47.760 in our existent social structures. The mechanisms of miliu control, 0:16:48.040 --> 0:16:51.239 loading the language, and other techniques used by cultic tendencies 0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:56.080 exist in subtle forms within our mainstream institutions. We see 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:58.360 the seeds of thought or form in the echo chambers 0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:01.600 of media ecosystems. We see the loading of language in 0:17:01.600 --> 0:17:04.879 the polarized rhetoric of politics. We see the demand for 0:17:04.960 --> 0:17:08.840 purity in the most aggressive forms of cultural and religious tribalism. 0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:13.680 The extremist can sometimes be the most honest, uninhibited expression, 0:17:14.119 --> 0:17:18.280 the natural endpoint of our world's authoritarian tendencies and subtle 0:17:18.520 --> 0:17:22.919 lifelong conditioning. At home, in the classroom, at work in 0:17:23.000 --> 0:17:26.679 civic life, we are trained in the soft versions of 0:17:26.760 --> 0:17:30.919 the very deference that totalize and leaders eventually demand. We 0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:34.679 are conditioned to respect authority without question, to prioritize the 0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:38.159 greater good of the institution over individual agency, and to 0:17:38.240 --> 0:17:42.520 accept official narratives as the only valid reality. So when 0:17:42.520 --> 0:17:46.560 a leader arrives who promises to replace the complex messyan 0:17:46.600 --> 0:17:50.000 certainty of our political and social reality with the clarity 0:17:50.160 --> 0:17:53.840 of absolute truth, the most conditioned minds naturally find the 0:17:53.880 --> 0:17:58.080 offer at a seductive and so this disease caught through 0:17:58.160 --> 0:18:02.600 social conditioning must be treated by a fundamental reclamation of 0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:06.439 the individual's capacity for critical thought and autonomy. We have 0:18:06.480 --> 0:18:10.679 to move beyond the mere consumption of information to the 0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:15.120 active interrogation of it. This means cultivating the ability to 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:19.320 recognize the traps of thought reform, the logical fallacies, the 0:18:19.359 --> 0:18:22.399 loading of the language, to recognize when an ideology is 0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:26.000 attempting to bypass our reason in favor of or emotions. 0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:29.800 The primary defense against thought reform is the refusal so 0:18:29.880 --> 0:18:34.639 that any authority, religious, political, or otherwise becomes secret and 0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:35.480 beyond the question. 0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:39.760 Yeah, I think that point that you made towards the 0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:42.840 end there, But like this thing just being the most 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:47.840 visible consequence of the contradictions of our current social system 0:18:48.240 --> 0:18:51.320 is like really important. Is because yeah, I mean, we're 0:18:51.400 --> 0:18:55.840 all sorting through the same sorts of causes that produced 0:18:55.880 --> 0:18:58.800 groups like this, or produce the people that move into 0:18:58.800 --> 0:19:01.320 groups like this, and we might sort these out in 0:19:01.880 --> 0:19:05.359 different ways, but in the way that they do it, 0:19:04.920 --> 0:19:07.320 it's not fully alien. It's just it's just a very 0:19:07.520 --> 0:19:12.480 visible outward manifestation of the same sorts of internal contradictions, 0:19:12.880 --> 0:19:15.399 and like fascism feeds on these same things. You can 0:19:15.400 --> 0:19:18.399 see how much fascism like overlaps with a lot of 0:19:18.400 --> 0:19:18.760 stuff that. 0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:20.080 You're talking about here, yep. 0:19:20.200 --> 0:19:22.760 And it seemed kind of like suicidal tendencies, this destruction 0:19:22.840 --> 0:19:24.399 of the self, right, that is, that is dealing with 0:19:24.440 --> 0:19:27.679 those with those same sorts of like social tensions and 0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:32.280 internal contradictions that produce like outbursts of antisocial behavior like 0:19:32.280 --> 0:19:35.000 this or in some cases like genocidal behavior. 0:19:35.880 --> 0:19:38.440 Yeah. Yeah, I think it's very much resultant. Oh, there's 0:19:38.440 --> 0:19:43.000 the structure of our old system. You know, the stresses, 0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:47.639 the anxiety, is the pains and pressure points, and you know, 0:19:47.680 --> 0:19:51.640 we are all different as individuals, and I think that 0:19:51.680 --> 0:19:56.119 some people respond to these conditions in ways that are 0:19:56.240 --> 0:20:00.560 very much either self destructive externally destructive for both. 0:20:11.520 --> 0:20:13.919 I think a part of our task in like a 0:20:14.000 --> 0:20:17.159 general sense, is providing some alternative to this. Right you 0:20:17.240 --> 0:20:20.119 can like look at the way the really like on 0:20:20.200 --> 0:20:22.520 like a global level, like the left has really receded 0:20:22.520 --> 0:20:26.440 a lot in the past fifty sixty seventy years, and 0:20:26.520 --> 0:20:29.240 that that leaves a lot of you know, people who 0:20:29.240 --> 0:20:31.320 are who are trying to look for this for this 0:20:31.359 --> 0:20:34.400 sort of purpose, Right, They're trying to understand the contradictions 0:20:34.480 --> 0:20:38.160 of the world, and there may not be a humanistic 0:20:38.600 --> 0:20:41.159 option for that, so it gets directed into much more 0:20:41.160 --> 0:20:44.080 destructive ways. Sometimes you can see like what happened in 0:20:44.520 --> 0:20:46.919 Rajava with like democratic con federalism as like, right, they 0:20:47.000 --> 0:20:49.399 they actually did that, right, They they saw what was 0:20:49.480 --> 0:20:52.760 needed and they did it. And it's directly opposing the 0:20:52.840 --> 0:20:55.760 sort of alternative version which is which is isis which 0:20:55.960 --> 0:20:58.479 is like super interesting, Right, but I think we have 0:20:58.640 --> 0:21:01.720 we have the same problem here, but we don't really 0:21:01.800 --> 0:21:04.960 have a strong and strong like alternative to that, right, 0:21:04.960 --> 0:21:09.040 like a healthy, a healthy and growing like working class movement, 0:21:09.520 --> 0:21:12.000 which it attempts to actually solve the sort of sort 0:21:12.000 --> 0:21:14.840 of problems that are in the world that these sorts 0:21:14.880 --> 0:21:17.639 of other things like feed on. Right, they grab onto 0:21:17.640 --> 0:21:22.000 these onto these very very present problems and apply an 0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:27.119 emotionally soothing response to it, even if it is self destructive. 0:21:27.960 --> 0:21:32.879 Yeah, the work of building an alternative and demonstrating it 0:21:32.960 --> 0:21:35.080 and showing people live in it, I think is very 0:21:35.160 --> 0:21:36.560 very important. 0:21:36.880 --> 0:21:37.560 Yeah. 0:21:37.640 --> 0:21:40.280 I also think that when you consider the fact that 0:21:40.440 --> 0:21:44.600 the whole mark of totalizing systems is the elimination of 0:21:44.720 --> 0:21:49.160 the other and the criminalization of descent our antidotes, our 0:21:49.240 --> 0:21:54.399 alternative has to embrace. It has to be committed to 0:21:55.000 --> 0:21:58.440 the adversity of thought and expression. And I also think 0:21:58.480 --> 0:22:02.680 that it has to be willing to sit with conflict, 0:22:02.680 --> 0:22:07.520 to sit with tensions. Yeah, two, allow them to in 0:22:07.720 --> 0:22:09.800 ate with each other without trying to just override it 0:22:10.000 --> 0:22:12.159 with some false unity. 0:22:12.680 --> 0:22:16.000 Those tensions in conflict are like important and that is 0:22:16.080 --> 0:22:18.200 that is how we will develop our thought and develop 0:22:18.280 --> 0:22:19.480 our movement forward. 0:22:19.480 --> 0:22:21.439 You have to you have to have those tensions. You 0:22:21.440 --> 0:22:22.000 have to have. 0:22:21.880 --> 0:22:26.400 That that conflict and disagreement which will hopefully produce more 0:22:26.400 --> 0:22:27.160 positive outcomes. 0:22:27.280 --> 0:22:27.480 Yeah. 0:22:27.480 --> 0:22:30.920 Hopefully. It's it's generative conflict and exbstructive conflict. 0:22:31.320 --> 0:22:32.600 Yeah yeah, yeah. 0:22:32.520 --> 0:22:35.479 I mean, and some conflicts can be generative if we 0:22:35.560 --> 0:22:37.040 accept that they can't be resolved. 0:22:37.240 --> 0:22:37.440 Yeah. 0:22:37.520 --> 0:22:40.679 I think part of what makes some conflicts destructive is 0:22:41.240 --> 0:22:45.120 this effort to kind of uh just paint over them 0:22:45.200 --> 0:22:49.040 with some kumbaya sense of oh well, just well, you 0:22:49.240 --> 0:22:52.920 just unify like that's not consequential, or we'll figure it out, 0:22:53.040 --> 0:22:56.119 or that's just how it is. And I think we, Yeah, 0:22:56.240 --> 0:22:59.199 we have to be willing to be uncomfortable with not 0:22:59.320 --> 0:23:02.560 having the answers and maybe never having the answers. In 0:23:02.560 --> 0:23:07.560 some cases. There are those who I think will have 0:23:07.680 --> 0:23:13.960 the capacity to engage into deradicalization of ideological totalists. I 0:23:13.960 --> 0:23:16.760 don't think I'm among them, and I think that there 0:23:16.800 --> 0:23:20.520 are others that we can gear outreach towards. Yes, I 0:23:20.560 --> 0:23:24.679 get irritated sometimes when I see people who believe that 0:23:24.920 --> 0:23:29.080 the focus of our attention right now, as people trying 0:23:29.119 --> 0:23:31.760 to build an alternative, trying to build a better tomorrow, 0:23:32.200 --> 0:23:37.400 that our focus should be on trying to deradicalize right wingers. Yeah, 0:23:38.359 --> 0:23:45.680 the vast majority of people are politically unaffiliated, politically uncommitted, apathetic, disengaged, 0:23:46.200 --> 0:23:50.120 and I think that we can do far more if 0:23:50.119 --> 0:23:52.760 we were to focus on reaching those people and helping 0:23:52.760 --> 0:23:55.399 those people see the problems with this system and the 0:23:55.440 --> 0:24:00.240 solutions that we have on offer than engaging in fruit 0:24:00.280 --> 0:24:03.080 that's to beat with right wing hounzol. 0:24:03.440 --> 0:24:06.800 Yeah, and I think that's actually the most effective form 0:24:06.960 --> 0:24:11.760 of deradicalization, exactly, exactly. There is a lot of problems 0:24:11.760 --> 0:24:15.159 with the sort of like deradicalization framework that emerge in 0:24:15.240 --> 0:24:18.080 like twenty eighteen to kind of meet the rise of 0:24:18.080 --> 0:24:20.720 like the alt right. A lot of it doesn't work, 0:24:20.880 --> 0:24:23.080 a lot of it can be fruitless, but there is 0:24:23.119 --> 0:24:26.639 like a noble intention behind it, and I think the 0:24:26.640 --> 0:24:29.879 best way to actually do that is by just providing 0:24:30.040 --> 0:24:32.480 a healthy alternative that does appeal to most people. 0:24:32.480 --> 0:24:32.840 It doesn't. 0:24:32.840 --> 0:24:35.400 It doesn't need to be catered towards someone who's on 0:24:35.520 --> 0:24:37.879 like the right or like the far right, because in 0:24:37.880 --> 0:24:39.960 a lot of cases, those people are suffering from the 0:24:40.000 --> 0:24:41.880 same sorts of problems that the rest of people are. 0:24:41.880 --> 0:24:45.119 They've just found of a false solution for it, and 0:24:45.160 --> 0:24:47.399 so if you're able to provide a better solution, a 0:24:47.440 --> 0:24:49.880 lot of them will move over. There's really very few 0:24:49.920 --> 0:24:53.199