Speaker 1: Hi, Oh my god, am I on?
Speaker 2: Yes you are.
Speaker 1: What's your name, Naudia? It's not my real name, but you.
Speaker 2: Know, I'm gonna give you some advice if you're going
Speaker 2: by a if you're going by a fake name, let
Speaker 2: everyone think it's your real name. It's the point of
Speaker 2: the fake name to clarify that it's not your real name.
Speaker 2: It it ruins your progriface.
Speaker 1: I just don't want to lie.
Speaker 3: To you, you know what.
Speaker 2: I respect the intention with which you you did that.
Speaker 1: Thank you. I'm glad.
Speaker 2: Uh, what's what's going on?
Speaker 1: I just want to apologize. If I sound bad, it's
Speaker 1: because I'm a little under the liver right now. My
Speaker 1: voice doesn't normally sound like this, but I'm just so
Speaker 1: psyched that I'm on here. The reason I wanted to
Speaker 1: talk to you, as I'm sure you know, is because
Speaker 1: I catfished somebody that I worked with over a year ago,
Speaker 1: and I broke his heart as the catfish. And now
Speaker 1: we're like best friends and he still doesn't know that
Speaker 1: I did this.
Speaker 3: Mmm.
Speaker 2: Okay, so uh, how do you first start to catfish
Speaker 2: this guy?
Speaker 1: Okay, so it started when he first started working with me.
Speaker 1: I didn't know anything about him. But one day he
Speaker 1: said something that came across as like really like homophobic,
Speaker 1: and I was like, yikes, you know, like you know,
Speaker 1: you don't just say that shit around people openly. And
Speaker 1: then I found out from one of the other people
Speaker 1: that I work with that apparently he told a girl
Speaker 1: that he wanted to stuff her donut when he was
Speaker 1: trying to get laid, I guess, and so we thought, yeah, natural,
Speaker 1: just you know, regular weird things. So I knew that
Speaker 1: this guy had tender because I joined Tinder around this
Speaker 1: time that year, and I had seen him while I
Speaker 1: was swiping on Tender. So we got the idea to
Speaker 1: make a Tender profile that was like geared specifically towards
Speaker 1: this guy. Like the profile it was so specific. It
Speaker 1: was like I love short guys, I love guys that
Speaker 1: can cook, just like very generic things that just happened
Speaker 1: to apply to him. And within like a few minutes
Speaker 1: of us swiping on him, we matched and we started
Speaker 1: talking to him as a fake profile, and we never
Speaker 1: had any like in depth conversations with him, at least
Speaker 1: from our angle. Most of it was just us like
Speaker 1: saying the weirdest shit and like trying to get like
Speaker 1: some kind of like reaction or suspicion out of him,
Speaker 1: and like, I think we told him that our grandma
Speaker 1: was like addicted to cocaine and that she was hiding
Speaker 1: coke in the the flower pantry.
Speaker 2: So did you did you?
Speaker 3: Ever?
Speaker 2: How long? How long did you talk to this guy
Speaker 2: as the fake profile?
Speaker 1: We talked to him for two months and it ended
Speaker 1: because he started to get saucy one night and we
Speaker 1: wanted to see like just how far we could, like
Speaker 1: what kind of crazy stuff we could say to like
Speaker 1: scare him away. Like we told him to open his
Speaker 1: bitch hole for mommy at one point, and that still
Speaker 1: didn't scare him away, and he started asking for live pictures,
Speaker 1: so we like panicked and we left him undelivered for
Speaker 1: like two days, and then a few days later he
Speaker 1: like just finally ended.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So so you say that he was heartbroken, What
Speaker 2: did he say to you, either that you found out
Speaker 2: about in real life or that the uh you found
Speaker 2: out through the fake profile.
Speaker 1: He blocked the fake profile after we the The thing
Speaker 1: we did to I guess really make him go away
Speaker 1: was we've had some like random dude on her Snapchat
Speaker 1: story and called him a sexy cowboy and he finally
Speaker 1: just blocked her, I guess, and then when he came
Speaker 1: back to work, he seemed really upset. And that was
Speaker 1: when I first was like, oh, like this like actually
Speaker 1: affected this guy. And I remember one of my other
Speaker 1: coworkers asked him what was wrong, and he was like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: I might want to talk about it later. And that
Speaker 1: was when I started feeling bad for it, like, you know,
Speaker 1: beyond just like oh, this is a silly thing I'm doing.
Speaker 2: Okay, so you said you started to feel bad for
Speaker 2: I feel bad about doing this. What what did those
Speaker 2: feelings look like?
Speaker 1: Well, especially started once I actually like got to know him.
Speaker 1: It started around the beginning of this year, Like my
Speaker 1: work started throwing these little parties after work where we
Speaker 1: all drink and we'd have like a good time. And
Speaker 1: that was when I started like actually talking to this dude,
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, he's actually kind of like
Speaker 1: cool and sweet, and he eventually like joined my friend
Speaker 1: group over time, and now like we're really close, and
Speaker 1: like over time, I've just been feeling like worse and
Speaker 1: worse about it because it's like he doesn't know about
Speaker 1: this horrible thing I did. But I know it, and
Speaker 1: if I tell him, it's like he's never gonna talk
Speaker 1: to me again. And it's like, as much as I
Speaker 1: want to tell him, it's like I don't know if
Speaker 1: it would be worth it, if that makes sense, But
Speaker 1: I also feel like genuinely guilty about it. But it's
Speaker 1: just a matter of like if it would be worth to,
Speaker 1: like how much things would change if I were to
Speaker 1: like tell him, m.
Speaker 2: A, is this for you? Has this experience like changed
Speaker 2: your perspective on people in any way or giving you
Speaker 2: a lesson of any kind?
Speaker 1: I think so, Yeah, it's kind of taught me that,
Speaker 1: like I'm not always right about people from the get go,
Speaker 1: you know, like that's definitely one thing I've learned, because
Speaker 1: like at the time, I just thought this guy was
Speaker 1: like some weird, little homophobic troll, but he's actually like
Speaker 1: chill with like me and my friend group and everything.
Speaker 1: So now it's just like, oh, like, you know, if
Speaker 1: I knew what I knew now, I wouldn't have done it.
Speaker 1: But I don't know how much I can blame myself
Speaker 1: for doing it with what I knew at the time.
Speaker 2: You know, Okay, you said you did this with a friend.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I did this with two of the people I
Speaker 1: was living with at the time. One of them denies
Speaker 1: any and all involvement in it to this day, but
Speaker 1: was definitely involved.
Speaker 2: Okay, Uh, do they know this guy personally at all?
Speaker 1: Yeah, he has been hanging out with like all of us,
Speaker 1: Like we hang out at those people's house like regularly.
Speaker 1: Other people I did it with.
Speaker 2: So, so, what are their thoughts and feelings about the situation.
Speaker 1: I'm with one of those people right now. Actually I'm not.
Speaker 4: Don't worry.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna put you on the spot.
Speaker 2: But does she I mean, I'm down to hear from
Speaker 2: her perspective if she wants to tell us?
Speaker 1: Do you want to talk to?
Speaker 4: What am I supposed to say?
Speaker 3: Hello?
Speaker 2: Hi? Hi? What's your name?
Speaker 4: Hi? My name is Meredith.
Speaker 2: Hello, Meredith. How are you doing?
Speaker 4: I am doing amazing? I can't believe I'm talking to you.
Speaker 3: So.
Speaker 2: Uh, Meredith, you heard your friend tell this story that
Speaker 2: you were involved with, and you've heard her feelings about it.
Speaker 3: Hm, what.
Speaker 2: Are your feelings about it?
Speaker 4: I have no regrets. I would do it all over again.
Speaker 2: Interesting, Why do you feel like you would do it
Speaker 2: all over again?
Speaker 4: I it was just a wonderful experience, and it's it
Speaker 4: brought us closer together than me and this other person here.
Speaker 4: And even though the person who was affected by it
Speaker 4: is still experiencing the effects, I think it was worth
Speaker 4: it because he deserved it. It also it also it
Speaker 4: also changed him for the better, because before he was
Speaker 4: he's a little homophobic grimlin and then like now he's
Speaker 4: more open and like, I feel like we did that
Speaker 4: as the catfish.
Speaker 2: Why do you think your feelings about this are so
Speaker 2: different from your friends?
Speaker 4: Can I tell the truth here? You can let me
Speaker 4: tell the truth here?
Speaker 3: Please?
Speaker 4: Yeah, go ahead, Okay, I had to get permission first.
Speaker 4: This Naughtia here eventually fell in love with the person
Speaker 4: that we catfish. I wouldn't say love selling light.
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, but I mean I mean, look to me,
Speaker 2: these two retrospectives on this situation.
Speaker 3: Are not.
Speaker 2: Like like to me, even the not now that Nadia
Speaker 2: did have like a deeper personal relationship with this guy
Speaker 2: feels irrelevant to me in terms of how she now
Speaker 2: views the situation as a whole because she took a
Speaker 2: lesson from it of you know, not going you know,
Speaker 2: not feeling as though you know a person based off
Speaker 2: of very little information, which is a general broad lesson
Speaker 2: that has nothing to do really with her having any
Speaker 2: sort of deep personal relationship with the guy. And I'm wondering,
Speaker 2: you know that from just an objective level. Does does
Speaker 2: that not resonate with you as an idea, these ideas
Speaker 2: that she's talking about as to why she feels guilty
Speaker 2: about it?
Speaker 4: No, because for me, I got to know him a
Speaker 4: little more as just as did Nadia, but I did
Speaker 4: not eventually like him.
Speaker 2: Okay, do you feel as though you can do wrong
Speaker 2: onto people if you feel like you're justified in doing it?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 2: What makes you feel like that?
Speaker 1: You can't see it? But Meredith is shrugging right now.
Speaker 2: No, I'm asking you genuine question. It's not like a
Speaker 2: gotcha moment or anything.
Speaker 1: I want to know, still shrugging. So I guess I'll
Speaker 1: speak my piece here. Okay, sure, because I've been having
Speaker 1: talked about this recently, Because one of the reasons I've
Speaker 1: been wanting to talk to you about this so bad
Speaker 1: is because one of my other close friends recently just
Speaker 1: kind of like confronted me and basically told me that
Speaker 1: they think I'm like this like mean spirited person who
Speaker 1: just like enjoys doing these things to people, and this
Speaker 1: was like the most prominent example, and you.
Speaker 2: The angel on your shoulder, don't you Apparently yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: so tell me more.
Speaker 3: They just.
Speaker 1: Oh, sorry, you're good. But they they like kind of
Speaker 1: cited this as like proof that I'm like just generally
Speaker 1: like not a good person because I can do these
Speaker 1: things to people. But it's like, again, like I don't
Speaker 1: think they fully understand that, Like, you know, this isn't
Speaker 1: something I just did for like no reason. I wasn't
Speaker 1: like I'm just going to rip this dude's hard out
Speaker 1: of his chest, even if that's what we ended up
Speaker 1: doing it. At the time, it wasn't from a place
Speaker 1: of like genuine malice to an innocent person. It was
Speaker 1: just like, oh, this guy is like has a really
Speaker 1: shitty worldview. Let's let's mess with them a little. But
Speaker 1: now it's turned into like this whole thing where I'm
Speaker 1: questioning my own morality.
Speaker 2: Well even that, I mean even I mean, that's that's
Speaker 2: I guess when I'm asking Meredith. And again again I'm
Speaker 2: not you know, inflecting any kind of like you know,
Speaker 2: personal view on it, but I I want to understand
Speaker 2: deeper like why, I mean, do you I mean, do
Speaker 2: you feel as though if you feel like you're justified,
Speaker 2: uh to to do something to someone that you should
Speaker 2: do it?
Speaker 1: Is that to both of us or just Meredith?
Speaker 5: Sorry?
Speaker 2: Well I asked it to Meredith and she she doesn't
Speaker 2: have an answer, which is which is fine, But I'm
Speaker 2: curious what yours is.
Speaker 1: That is a good question. That's That's definitely another thing
Speaker 1: I've been struggling with because at the time, like another
Speaker 1: element of it was like it just felt like a
Speaker 1: funny thing to do, like I guess, not something necessarily
Speaker 1: that I should do, but that like you know, like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'll get a kick out of seeing what like this
Speaker 1: weird little man says to his like fake tender soulmates.
Speaker 2: Well, it's funny that you guys are friends. I mean,
Speaker 2: it sounds like you have gained a new perspective out
Speaker 2: of this situation. And yeah, I don't know. Hopefully that
Speaker 2: perspective is helpful to you and you believe in it
Speaker 2: and that it guides you towards doing the things in
Speaker 2: the future that you you are proud of. I guess.
Speaker 1: Do you think we should tell him? Yet?
Speaker 2: I cannot answer that question.
Speaker 1: I appreciate that.
Speaker 2: Let me ask you that I can. I ask you
Speaker 2: a question before we.
Speaker 1: Go, Yes, ask me a question.
Speaker 2: Do you think you should tell him?
Speaker 1: Well, I guess I'm gonna go right back at you
Speaker 1: with the I don't have an answer to that because
Speaker 1: on a moral standpoint, I think I should, But on
Speaker 1: a standpoint of like basic self preservation and not wanting
Speaker 1: to dig up old wounds, I also don't think I
Speaker 1: should because I think telling him would ultimately harm both
Speaker 1: me and him more than it would, like help me
Speaker 1: relieve myself with this burden. If that makes sense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that does make sense. It does make sense. I
Speaker 2: don't know. I'm not the fucking moral police, and I
Speaker 2: don't even think, thank you. I don't. Well, nobody fucking
Speaker 2: acts morally all I don't fucking act morally all the time.
Speaker 2: I gotta sit here and tell you two. So, I mean,
Speaker 2: do whatever feels right. I suppose that was a stupid
Speaker 2: thing to say. I could have just said nothing, but
Speaker 2: I said do what ever feels right, which doesn't make
Speaker 2: any sense. God damn it, do what ever feels right?
Speaker 3: Now? Do you?
Speaker 2: Is there anything else you want to say to the
Speaker 2: people of the computer before we go.
Speaker 1: I just wanted to say I was totally like stoked
Speaker 1: that you took my call. I'm sure everyone says that,
Speaker 1: but it just made my night, Like you have no
Speaker 1: idea how long I've wanted to talk to you. Everyone,
Speaker 1: don't catfish weird little guys that you work with. They
Speaker 1: might turn out to be kind of cool.
Speaker 2: Meredith. Any is Meredith still there? Does she have any
Speaker 2: final words before we go?
Speaker 1: Fuck bitches, get money?
Speaker 2: Thank yes for calling?
Speaker 4: Thank you?
Speaker 2: That that poses an interesting question. Should you fuck with
Speaker 2: people if you feel like they deserve it? And as
Speaker 2: somebody who has fucked with people in my life before
Speaker 2: because I felt like they deserved it, I don't know
Speaker 2: the answer to that question. I mean, at this point
Speaker 2: in my life, I feel like the answer is no.
Speaker 2: But I don't know. Some person who knows about like
Speaker 2: history and fucking science and psychology or something could sit
Speaker 2: down and have some good argument as to why you
Speaker 2: should be able to do things if you feel justified
Speaker 2: in doing it. But I guess my thing is I don't.
Speaker 2: And again, in the when I was in a fucking
Speaker 2: in high school, I probably fucked with a lot of
Speaker 2: people just because I felt like, you know, they deserved it.
Speaker 2: I should be able to fuck with them. But to me,
Speaker 2: that feels childish. That's why I did it when I
Speaker 2: was a child, because what I don't I guess where
Speaker 2: I stand now in my life. I don't feel comfortable
Speaker 2: designating myself as like the universe's moral arbiter. Like I
Speaker 2: get to decide who has done wrong, and then I
Speaker 2: get to decide that they deserve something or don't deserve something.
Speaker 2: That's just not a power I feel comfortable wielding, and
Speaker 2: so I don't. I don't know if it's a power
Speaker 2: that any one mortal shall wield. That's why I'm not
Speaker 2: a fucking this is I'm not Christian, but I do
Speaker 2: believe in the weird hippie sense that only God can judge.
Speaker 2: And so if I decide to judge, does that make
Speaker 2: me am I declaring myself as a god? Isn't that
Speaker 2: insane to declare yourself as a god? All right, let's
Speaker 2: take another call.
Speaker 3: Hello, Hi, Hi, I'm Noko, Noko.
Speaker 2: How are you doing?
Speaker 3: I'm live and kicking, and that's not it?
Speaker 2: Noko? How can I how can I get you today?
Speaker 2: What's going on with you in the universe?
Speaker 3: Well? I have a shut in. I've been a shut
Speaker 3: in for years, a year at least, and I was
Speaker 3: going fine because I was doing remote work. That they
Speaker 3: cut my remote hours from five days a week to two.
Speaker 3: And then my significant others she's not too I'm happy
Speaker 3: about not being able to go outside with me. So
Speaker 3: it's just my shudden ness is just starting to get
Speaker 3: in the way of my life.
Speaker 2: So tell me where the shutting ness originated from.
Speaker 3: I wish I knew there's on and off for my
Speaker 3: entire adult life, but and then as a teenager, I
Speaker 3: was always stuck in the house.
Speaker 2: So so is this is this like a gloraphobia?
Speaker 3: That's what the what the term I used before I
Speaker 3: started seeing a doctor and then she told me, no,
Speaker 3: it's not a gloraphobia. And then we haven't come to
Speaker 3: a diagnosis yet after six months of sessions. But it's
Speaker 3: not a gorphobia, apparently.
Speaker 2: Tell me more about what the doctor is telling you.
Speaker 2: Why what what information have they given you as to
Speaker 2: what might be going on with.
Speaker 3: You outside of the normal depression. And they're claiming PTSD
Speaker 3: but I don't even know what could even be PTSD
Speaker 3: in my life. But yeah, I don't know why and
Speaker 3: I'm not too concerned why if it wasn't. Honestly, I'd
Speaker 3: be okay with never leaving the house. If I could
Speaker 3: just work, people would let me work, you know.
Speaker 2: So you would be okay with never leaving the house
Speaker 2: if it didn't affect your work. So you have no
Speaker 2: this is not a thing that you even desire to overcome.
Speaker 3: Not particularly, And I'd rather set my life around not
Speaker 3: leaving than leaving.
Speaker 2: You know, it's not necessary. And if you don't have it,
Speaker 2: that's cool. And if you don't even want to tell me,
Speaker 2: that's cool. But do you have a explanation of some kind? Again,
Speaker 2: you don't even need to, But do you have an
Speaker 2: explanation of some kind as to why you have no
Speaker 2: desire to overcome this?
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't have an explicit reason. It's just
Speaker 3: I'd rather be comfortable than uncomfortable. I guess I'd rather
Speaker 3: not deal with the anxieties that come with dealing with
Speaker 3: the public and people and strangers and all that. Sure,
Speaker 3: But I guess that's about all the reason that I
Speaker 3: have got, you know.
Speaker 2: Okay, I you know, look, I think that's legitimately. I
Speaker 2: think you're you know, as a free human on the earth.
Speaker 2: You are entitled and compelled to live your life in
Speaker 2: whatever way you choose, but you're finding it difficult to
Speaker 2: work in these constraints.
Speaker 3: Yeah, i've before. See I started working remote in twenty twenty.
Speaker 3: Well what it it's twenty twenty two now, so it
Speaker 3: would have been twenty twenty one. I started working remote
Speaker 3: for the first time. But before then, i'd be able
Speaker 3: to work for I don't know, like three months or so,
Speaker 3: and then just stop going in, just no call, no show,
Speaker 3: and never never come back or talk to them again.
Speaker 3: And then I started working remote, and then I actually
Speaker 3: started working for it's really started working for the state.
Speaker 3: And apparently you can't get fired from the state. So
Speaker 3: when I just stopped going in and talking to everybody,
Speaker 3: instead of just firing me, they actually reached out and said, hey,
Speaker 3: we can provide you with a doctor. Just go to
Speaker 3: this doctor, be remote and keep doing your work. And
Speaker 3: then a couple of weeks ago they said, well the
Speaker 3: remote time's over. You need to start going back into
Speaker 3: the office. And at that point I told my doctor, hey,
Speaker 3: I can't do this, and she said, well, you can
Speaker 3: take fml not fuck my life, but family medical leave,
Speaker 3: which is cool. Which means I won't get fired, but
Speaker 3: it also means I'm not getting paid three days a week.
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm a single father and you know, just
Speaker 3: trying to make it on my own, which is not
Speaker 3: easy paying rent on a single income.
Speaker 2: Have you looked into any alternative work that you might
Speaker 2: be able to do from home, just.
Speaker 3: Just just some remote stuff. I've tried to look at
Speaker 3: a couple of different things, and I've even been told
Speaker 3: that I qualify to go on disability and get those
Speaker 3: neat bucks. But it's just it's much to do, you know.
Speaker 3: The doctor's prescribed of all things ken of me, and
Speaker 3: I don't know how I feel about that.
Speaker 2: I wanted to ask you this year, your father, Yeah,
Speaker 2: how has what's been going on with you affected that
Speaker 2: aspect of your life?
Speaker 3: Oh? My kid's twelve now and they're more interested in
Speaker 3: staying in and playing games anyway, which I so it's
Speaker 3: really just a guilt thing. Having know, I'd like to
Speaker 3: take them out and go and do things, but it's
Speaker 3: already hard enough for me. And when they say, oh,
Speaker 3: I don't want to do anything anyway. Yeah, so it's
Speaker 3: it's affecting my guilt a lot. I feel like I'm
Speaker 3: not doing I'm setting a bad example, you know.
Speaker 2: Mm Hm, does that guilt compel you to change anything?
Speaker 3: That guilt has kept me from commit becoming an hero
Speaker 3: a couple of times, but and it's kept me from
Speaker 3: running away out of the state and going and living
Speaker 3: in the woods. But uh, and I guess it's what's
Speaker 3: keeping me going to see a doctor. I mean, I
Speaker 3: could just say do what I've always done and say
Speaker 3: screw it. I'm just gonna like just quit my job
Speaker 3: and screw this mental health thing. It's not working, you know,
Speaker 3: for six months and nothing's changed. But like, h, they're
Speaker 3: keeping being going. I guess you don't really like I do.
Speaker 3: I do, and especially now, ah, because they're getting older
Speaker 3: and this is the time when they're really learning life,
Speaker 3: you know. And uh, I really like teaching her about
Speaker 3: these things, but it's hard not to be give her
Speaker 3: a bleak outlook on things too. HM.
Speaker 2: Do you have in your mind an outlook a vision
Speaker 2: of philosophy of any kind for her that you would
Speaker 2: like to see her adopt or open up to, just
Speaker 2: about life, even if it's different from your personal one.
Speaker 3: I really wish I could say, Yeah, it's a lot
Speaker 3: of times, you know, and like hard things happen. H
Speaker 3: I don't know what to say, and I end up
Speaker 3: just sitting next to her, you know, because if I
Speaker 3: were to say what's on my mind, then it's just
Speaker 3: incredibly bleak and it's best not to give my view
Speaker 3: of my world view.
Speaker 2: Yeah that makes sense, Yeah, it does, it does.
Speaker 3: Mm hmm.
Speaker 2: No, col it sounds like it sounds like you are
Speaker 2: dealing with a lot, and it's good to hear.
Speaker 3: That you.
Speaker 2: Are still doing the best you can in spite of that.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying. It sounds to me like
Speaker 2: you're doing the best to be the best father that
Speaker 2: you can within the constraints of your mental health issues.
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know what else to do, you know.
Speaker 3: It's yeah, it's a by day thing for me right now,
Speaker 3: and it's.
Speaker 2: Just you know, but I mean just to just to
Speaker 2: I mean, look at the ways from what you've told
Speaker 2: me on the phone in which you're trying like going
Speaker 2: to the doctor like you. I mean, you said this yourself.
Speaker 2: I just want to point it out, you know, you totally.
Speaker 2: I mean, like I told you earlier, I was like,
Speaker 2: you are free as a human being to live life.
Speaker 2: However you want. You don't have to make any attempt
Speaker 2: to change how you're currently living. But you're going to
Speaker 2: the doctor. You don't have to go to You're a
Speaker 2: grown man. You don't have to go to the doctor
Speaker 2: ran too. But you're doing it. But you're doing it
Speaker 2: because you want to try, because you want to be
Speaker 2: a better father. I think that's an admirable thing to do,
Speaker 2: to try to help yourself so that you can be
Speaker 2: a better father. I just wanted to say.
Speaker 3: That, Yeah, yeah, and I and that's ultimately I want
Speaker 3: to I want to be a better father. I want
Speaker 3: to be a better significant other, I want to be
Speaker 3: a better son, and I want to be a better employee. Mhm.
Speaker 3: But something, why can't they just see it my way?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 2: So you're going what kind of what kind of doctor
Speaker 2: are you? Do you also speak with a I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't know what the types of doctors are for
Speaker 2: what you're going to a therapy? Okay, So what has
Speaker 2: your psychotherapist told you anything else that's been helpful to you?
Speaker 3: Honestly? I mean she comes from like I love acid,
Speaker 3: I love lsky. I take it maybe like once or
Speaker 3: twice a year and and I really lucked out because
Speaker 3: she doesn't condemn me for my LD and my cannabis
Speaker 3: use and all this other stuff. She doesn't say, oh,
Speaker 3: well that's your problem. You got to stop that, you know.
Speaker 3: But no, she she listens to me, which has been
Speaker 3: really good. It's all. That's it, you know what I mean,
Speaker 3: It's just, yeah, that sucks. I wish you could do
Speaker 3: I wish you could have things better, try thinking different,
Speaker 3: you know, I don't know.
Speaker 2: Did she get what's the most helpful thing you think
Speaker 2: she's told you? Or that you're just that you've gotten
Speaker 2: out of that experience.
Speaker 3: Someone to talk to every every week.
Speaker 2: M hm.
Speaker 3: That's that's really I mean, that's that's been helpful, and
Speaker 3: it's been helpful and like remembering things I have, my
Speaker 3: memory is just gone. But she she does she said
Speaker 3: that that's a sentiment of PTSD apparently, but she just
Speaker 3: is just gone. And so she's kind of like unearthed
Speaker 3: a couple of things. There's just been like two or
Speaker 3: three sessions that it's just you know, a typical therapy
Speaker 3: session when you're out, when you're done with it and
Speaker 3: you're just bawling at the end of it or whatever,
Speaker 3: and so there's been a couple of those. I guess
Speaker 3: that's that's I guess that's progress. I guess that counts
Speaker 3: as progress.
Speaker 2: Okay, So like in defining progress, can I ask you this,
Speaker 2: and you know, look, tell me the truth of however
Speaker 2: you feel. But day to day or I guess week
Speaker 2: to week as time goes on, are you noticing, even
Speaker 2: if it's microscopic, are you noticing any kind of trajectory
Speaker 2: upwards or downwards in dealing with this problem?
Speaker 3: Yeah, i'd say neither. It just seems I just feel
Speaker 3: the same. It's like it comes in ebbs and flows,
Speaker 3: you know, where I get really really bad for a
Speaker 3: little while. Then I kind of like plateau at an
Speaker 3: okay level. And I've been all that plateau for a while,
Speaker 3: so but I'm just waiting for the time when it
Speaker 3: dips down again. Yeah, And it's good to know that
Speaker 3: she's there and she's doing a pro bono, right. I
Speaker 3: have insurance through my job and she's not even taking
Speaker 3: the money, so she'll be there even if I did
Speaker 3: leave my job, which is a relief to say the least.
Speaker 3: And also knowing that she's not going to call the
Speaker 3: cops if I say something suicidal and get me in
Speaker 3: more debt.
Speaker 2: You know, I feel like I'm not obviously I think
Speaker 2: we all know I'm obviously not a real therapist, you know,
Speaker 2: I think one of my big takeaways, I don't know
Speaker 2: if your real therapist has but I said this already.
Speaker 2: I don't know if your real therapist has brought this
Speaker 2: up or if this is something that you believe about
Speaker 2: yourself because you told me about like all this guilt
Speaker 2: that you have, and if it does any help to
Speaker 2: alleviate the guilt, and I might not, I don't know,
Speaker 2: but I do hope that you recognize, at least from
Speaker 2: my perspective, it sounds as though you are you are
Speaker 2: doing the best you can to help yourself, to be
Speaker 2: a good father, to be a better significant other, to
Speaker 2: be a good son by just showing up every week
Speaker 2: to work on it. Just you're trying, and you're trying
Speaker 2: the best you can within your constraints, and I hope
Speaker 2: that you're not feeling guilty about that not being good enough,
Speaker 2: because it's it's a lot. Let's I'll say it again.
Speaker 2: We both we both said it where you were like,
Speaker 2: I don't have to fucking go to the dock I
Speaker 2: don't have to work on this. You don't, You really don't.
Speaker 2: You really don't have to. You could if you wanted to,
Speaker 2: be like, fuck everything, I'm gonna not even work on
Speaker 2: this issue because I'm too afraid to or I don't
Speaker 2: feel like it. But you are. You're showing up to
Speaker 2: therapy every week. You're even you know what, You're even
Speaker 2: not noticing progress right away, but you're still showing up
Speaker 2: because you so badly want to be a good father,
Speaker 2: to be all those things. And I hope you recognize
Speaker 2: that that's a big deal and that's not nothing, and
Speaker 2: I hope you feel good about that, and I hope
Speaker 2: that that alleviates the guilt because you're dealing with a
Speaker 2: tough issue, but your role, you're standing beneath the boulder
Speaker 2: every day, pushing on it. You're not letting it roll
Speaker 2: back down the hill.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: You're pushing on the boulder. You're not giving up. And
Speaker 2: I don't know how long it's gonna take. And I'm
Speaker 2: not a real therapist, and I can't sit here and
Speaker 2: tell you whether or not things are going to give.
Speaker 2: I can't sit here and tell you about the trajectory
Speaker 2: because I don't know, but I hope you feel good
Speaker 2: about that, and I hope that you continue to show
Speaker 2: up every day and work on this, and I hope
Speaker 2: that as you do, you stop feeling so guilty because
Speaker 2: you really are doing the best you can, and I think,
Speaker 2: I think that makes you a good father.
Speaker 3: I appreciate those words. I do. I do. It is
Speaker 3: the best I can.
Speaker 2: Is enough, Noko, Is there anything else you want to
Speaker 2: say to the people of the computer or any aspect
Speaker 2: of this that you feel like we didn't talk about
Speaker 2: that that you would want to talk about.
Speaker 3: No, glad you talked to me.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Yeah, thanks for sharing this stuff. It's you know,
Speaker 2: I know, it's it's a lot, and I appreciate you
Speaker 2: sharing it because you never know who's listening to this,
Speaker 2: and perhaps somebody else is in you know, some form
Speaker 2: of a similar circumstance and has helped you, uh sharing,
Speaker 2: So thanks for doing that.
Speaker 3: Thanks thanksking laugh, take care, nokop my mind?
Speaker 2: How sorry that is inappropriate to make silly noises after
Speaker 2: that call. It just was my own personal version of
Speaker 2: Catharsis after dealing with a heavy topic, I shiit. My
Speaker 2: post call thoughts are just me reiterating all the things
Speaker 2: that I've said, do but fuck it, why not? Yes,
Speaker 2: I think it's uh. They're like, we have limited capacities,
Speaker 2: limited energy, and limited time and limited health, and I
Speaker 2: think it's it's important to just fucking focus on doing
Speaker 2: what you can with what you have. And that's uh
Speaker 2: what Noko is doing, man. And I hope he feels
Speaker 2: empowered by that. And I hope that the empower I
Speaker 2: hope he feels empowered by that, and I hope the
Speaker 2: empowerment he feels overcomes beats out the guilt and motivates
Speaker 2: him to keep showing up. I wasn't gonna say it
Speaker 2: to him because I don't like to promise that. I
Speaker 2: don't like to say it gets better because it's I
Speaker 2: don't know, but I have an inkling of a feeling.
Speaker 2: Maybe it's a naive feeling, but an inkling of a
Speaker 2: feeling that if he shows up continuously to work on
Speaker 2: the problem, I don't know how long, and I might
Speaker 2: not even I fucking might not be right, but I
Speaker 2: would think after some period of time that it would
Speaker 2: get better. And I cannot tell the future, but I
Speaker 2: hope that it does. And I appreciate you for calling
Speaker 2: Noko Hello, Hi is this Greg?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: It is. Uh what's life like, Greg?
Speaker 6: Life's busy?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was? It busy with school.
Speaker 6: I'm finishing my degree finally after a million and a
Speaker 6: half years.
Speaker 2: What are you getting? The degree in.
Speaker 6: Art and graphic design?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 6: Yeah, nothing, fancy.
Speaker 2: Greg, What is it that you wanted to talk about today?
Speaker 6: So, as I'm sure you saw, I used to think
Speaker 6: that my life was like the Truman Show, but I
Speaker 6: didn't know the Truman Show existed, if that makes any sense.
Speaker 6: Like I used to think that everything in my life
Speaker 6: was like meant. I mean, I guess it's meant to happen,
Speaker 6: but like people were watching me through cameras and like
Speaker 6: monitoring my moves and like does that make sense?
Speaker 2: Yeah? So you thought that you were being watched and
Speaker 2: this was before you even knew that the Truman Show
Speaker 2: was a thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 6: So then like once I finally told people like hey, guys,
Speaker 6: like I think, like I think I'm crazy, and they're like, no,
Speaker 6: that's just the Truman Show And I was like no, no, no,
Speaker 6: like genuinely I think I'm crazy. What is Truman Show?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, How did you feel when you found out
Speaker 2: that this was a thing? That was actually fictionalized.
Speaker 6: I kind of felt stupid. I was like, well, I
Speaker 6: feel like I don't know that I'm just crazy.
Speaker 2: Is this something that you still feel or is this
Speaker 2: the fear that you've gotten over?
Speaker 6: For the most part, I've gotten over it. Like living
Speaker 6: as like a being watched every move like cameras and
Speaker 6: like people on queue type thing like okay, go now
Speaker 6: she's doing this type thing. I've gotten over that. But
Speaker 6: like I'm obviously mentally unstable undiagnosed.
Speaker 2: For how long were you feeling like you were being watched?
Speaker 6: I mean it was like the majority of like my
Speaker 6: high school years. Like I have a very vivid memory
Speaker 6: of like being in like the back hallways of school
Speaker 6: and I'm like thinking, Okay, once I turn this corner,
Speaker 6: they're gonna tell the people on the other side of
Speaker 6: that wall, like Okay, she's coming around the corner, like
Speaker 6: go you know what I mean, Like everybody was kind
Speaker 6: of on a queue around me.
Speaker 2: So how did this feeling like you're being watched effect
Speaker 2: kind of the way that you lived your life?
Speaker 6: I feel like I was. I was very impulsive and
Speaker 6: I tried to like do things. I'm like, this is
Speaker 6: gonna throw them off today, like this is gonna this
Speaker 6: is gonna you know, throw them off, and they're not
Speaker 6: gonna know how to react to this. And I like
Speaker 6: try to catch people off guard like they were instructed. Okay, Greg,
Speaker 6: here is gonna react this way, so then you're gonna
Speaker 6: react like this. So then I would try to do
Speaker 6: something crazy out of the ordinary to see if they're like, oh, okay,
Speaker 6: we didn't we weren't prepared for you to react like this,
Speaker 6: like our head honcho, doesn't you know to tell us
Speaker 6: what to do after this?
Speaker 2: So you would do things out of your routine and
Speaker 2: to try to trip up the camera crew?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 2: Interesting? Uh did did? Did you ever do like things
Speaker 2: that were just irrational because you were trying to trip
Speaker 2: up the camera crew?
Speaker 6: I mean kind of not really. I mean it was
Speaker 6: like kind of just like stupid little things where like
Speaker 6: I would try to like read people's like their body
Speaker 6: language in a sense, seeing if like I could catch
Speaker 6: them off and notice that they're being weird and like
Speaker 6: they're kind of on like a script and if I'm
Speaker 6: not like not following this said script.
Speaker 2: What is it that made you realize that you're not
Speaker 2: being watched? Was it the realization that a movie about
Speaker 2: this existed.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that, and like you know, I tell people, I'm like, oh,
Speaker 6: you know, kind of a joke. I'm like, hey, I
Speaker 6: think my life was like the simulation, like scripted, and
Speaker 6: you all were put in my life, like you were
Speaker 6: hired to do this. And they're like okay, like they
Speaker 6: kind of not really guilty because they made me feel
Speaker 6: stupid about it. So I'm like, ah, I'm just an
Speaker 6: idiot for thinking this, like it's weird for me to
Speaker 6: think this. And then of course when I heard about
Speaker 6: the Truman Show, I was like, oh, that's how I
Speaker 6: feel felt not really anymore, but right.
Speaker 2: You're saying you say that for the most you said,
Speaker 2: for the most part, you don't feel like this, And
Speaker 2: I feel like you wouldn't have said that if some
Speaker 2: hint of a little something was lingering. What is it
Speaker 2: that is preventing you from saying I am completely over this.
Speaker 6: I guess it's like I don't know, I'm like not
Speaker 6: a spiritual person whatsoever, but I still think like it's
Speaker 6: like so cliche, but like everything kind of happens for
Speaker 6: a reason, and like in the sense of like you know,
Speaker 6: if it's going to happen. It's going to happen, so
Speaker 6: not in like the sense that like there's a camera crew,
Speaker 6: but like I can't really control what's going on. I
Speaker 6: don't know what's going on around me. But yeah, if
Speaker 6: that makes sense, I feel like I'm not making sense here.
Speaker 2: Well okay, So I mean, is it the idea that
Speaker 2: life is sort of deterministic and that all of your
Speaker 2: actions have been pre planned in a sense you're just
Speaker 2: following out?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 6: Yeah for the most part.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Do you feel as though you have free will?
Speaker 3: Greg?
Speaker 6: For the most part, Yeah, I kind of just feel
Speaker 6: like I go through the emotions every day and I
Speaker 6: feel like, I don't know.
Speaker 5: I don't know.
Speaker 6: It's it's a weird part of my brain that I try.
Speaker 6: I'm like, I try not to look too much into
Speaker 6: it because I don't know. And I think that's what
Speaker 6: makes me spiral, is because.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Have you talked to a real therapist about this stuff?
Speaker 6: No, I'm too scared.
Speaker 2: Why are you scared?
Speaker 6: I'm scared they're gonna tell me I'm crazy, which I
Speaker 6: probably am.
Speaker 2: But why knowing you're afraid of being told that you're
Speaker 2: crazy or of living in a reality in which you
Speaker 2: actually are some kind of a you know whatever, you
Speaker 2: have some sort of mental illness you don't want to
Speaker 2: face that. If that's the case, yeah, tell me more
Speaker 2: about why you're afraid of that.
Speaker 6: I guess I don't know. I'm like in a place
Speaker 6: in my life where I'm like cool with what's going on.
Speaker 6: I'm like finally okay with waking up and being alive.
Speaker 6: So I feel like I'm scared that if I put
Speaker 6: something new in my life, Like I'm I've been doing
Speaker 6: the same thing kind of for the past ever since,
Speaker 6: so I don't know, five years ago or so, So
Speaker 6: I feel like if I throw something new into my life,
Speaker 6: it like makes me crumble because I'm not your new
Speaker 6: things happening.
Speaker 2: If that makes yeah, no, it actually makes a lot
Speaker 2: of your your I mean, it sounds like it took
Speaker 2: you a while to get to a point that you're
Speaker 2: feeling good about and now you're here and you're feeling
Speaker 2: good and uh, you've reached this like state of equilibrium
Speaker 2: and you don't want to fuck with it because it's fragile, right, well,
Speaker 2: does any part of you? And I don't know, I'm
Speaker 2: not gonna it's really not my place to argue with
Speaker 2: that mode of operation. It's really not can I ask
Speaker 2: you look, let me ask you this, then, let me
Speaker 2: ask you this. What do you feel like it is
Speaker 2: right now that is giving your life a state of
Speaker 2: peaceful equilibrium?
Speaker 6: I guess I don't know. Like I finally am, like
Speaker 6: I said earlier, finishing up school, which was something I
Speaker 6: never really got into the groove of. But like now
Speaker 6: I'm like excited to go to school. I'm excited to
Speaker 6: be doing something that I enjoyed, And for a long
Speaker 6: time I didn't know what I enjoyed. So like finding
Speaker 6: things that I'm like genuinely good at and like genuinely
Speaker 6: enjoy doing is really like a good thing for me.
Speaker 3: M hm.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Well, I'm glad to hear that. It sounds
Speaker 2: like there's been an upward trajectory for you, that life
Speaker 2: is getting better.
Speaker 6: Yeah, slowly. Okay, here's the thing. This call was like
Speaker 6: supposed to be kind of goofy, funny, but I'm like
Speaker 6: pacing around my room.
Speaker 2: Nervous, pacing around your room, nervous that you're on the phone,
Speaker 2: kind of can I ask you this, what what do
Speaker 2: you what do you desire for the future? Even though
Speaker 2: you think it's uh, you know, you're just following and
Speaker 2: it started planned out for me, right right. Yeah, But
Speaker 2: so let's say you have free will, what would you
Speaker 2: be doing, Greg, I don't know.
Speaker 6: I just I just want to be happy. I want
Speaker 6: to be with my friends and people I love, doing
Speaker 6: something I love, you know, waking up, going to a job,
Speaker 6: or doing whatever that I like to do. Yeah, every day,
Speaker 6: I just try to find like a happiness if that
Speaker 6: like sounds so emio. But I just try to be
Speaker 6: happy because I feel like that. I mean, I don't
Speaker 6: really care what's going on around as long as I'm happy.
Speaker 2: I think that's very legitimate. Let me ask you this,
Speaker 2: how close is your reality to that? Right now? In
Speaker 2: this very moment?
Speaker 6: Uh, what do you mean exactly?
Speaker 2: You described to me being at a job that you like,
Speaker 2: being with friends that you like. Oh, sure, you're happy
Speaker 2: right now. You described to me a version of reality. Well,
Speaker 2: how how close is your reality to what you just described?
Speaker 6: Sure? I mean, it's it's getting there. I recently moved
Speaker 6: away from my family actually, but the school I'm going
Speaker 6: to is close to my family, so I see my
Speaker 6: family during the week, but then on the weekends, I'm
Speaker 6: at like my house that's you know, about an hour
Speaker 6: or so away, so I don't see my family as much.
Speaker 6: But you know, I talk to him all the time
Speaker 6: and call him on the phone face time and whatever.
Speaker 6: And then for job stuff. I don't really have a
Speaker 6: job right now. I'm trying to just finish school. So
Speaker 6: that's the other thing I was I mean, I'm feeling
Speaker 6: good about since I'm finishing my degree, I'm feeling good
Speaker 6: about jobs. Trying not to think too much about.
Speaker 2: It though, Greg, is there any other aspect of any
Speaker 2: of the or anything in particular that you want to
Speaker 2: say to the people of the computer before we go?
Speaker 1: I don't.
Speaker 6: I don't think so. I love your podcast. I'm sure
Speaker 6: everybody says it. I love your podcast, love listening to it.
Speaker 2: Thanks all the time.
Speaker 6: But yeah, I think that's all I got.
Speaker 2: Well, thanks for being a part of it. Thanks for
Speaker 2: I mean, is there are you still pacing around your room?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 2: You did it, but I have to.
Speaker 6: I'm a mover. I'm a mover to think.
Speaker 2: Well, it's funny because you're being perceived right now, which
Speaker 2: seems as though it has been a fear of yours
Speaker 2: being perceived and yet you're you're handling, At least from
Speaker 2: where I sit, You're you're being perceived you're handling it.
Speaker 6: Well, yeah, I'm trying. I'm trying. Yeah, I know it's
Speaker 6: so cringey and cliche, but yeah, listening to your pod podcast,
Speaker 6: it's great because it's like a just a normal gek
Speaker 6: So it's not really someone with a an opinion that
Speaker 6: is based off of you know.
Speaker 3: What am I trying to say?
Speaker 2: You're gidding? Did you watch the movie?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 6: No, no, I avoided it.
Speaker 2: Would it would if the main character of the movie
Speaker 2: was wearing a gecko costume, not the main character, the
Speaker 2: guy who's orchestrating the thing. Would that make it better?
Speaker 6: Uh?
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 6: Maybe I feel like it would be kind of funny,
Speaker 6: but it'd be kind of scary.
Speaker 2: It be kind of scary. Thank you for calling Greg.
Speaker 6: Okay, yeah, I'll let you go. Bye.
Speaker 2: Right, Let's figure out what's going on with Michael while
Speaker 2: Hey Michael, Oh Hello, what's that man?
Speaker 1: Uh?
Speaker 5: Is this all?
Speaker 3: Or? No?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Who is this?
Speaker 5: Oh? Michael?
Speaker 2: Michael? It says here that it says here that you
Speaker 2: just tried crossing a river and your foot slipped and
Speaker 2: now you're stuck on a rock?
Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, So, oh my gosh, it's just crazy. I
Speaker 5: didn't think I talked to him.
Speaker 2: What do you hold on? Okay? Yeah, no, go ahead,
Speaker 2: go ahead, I'll let you talk.
Speaker 5: Okay, okay, I'll just I'll just go through it quick.
Speaker 5: So I'm just at like a state park sometimes I
Speaker 5: just go hiking by myself out here, and there was
Speaker 5: a river and like on the other side, like there's
Speaker 5: a big like dirt cliff from the river, you know,
Speaker 5: taking the dirt away obviously, So I'm like trying to
Speaker 5: cross it because I want to go up there. And
Speaker 5: there's like a lot of rocks scattered, but not many,
Speaker 5: so I'm like hopping across them, you know, and my
Speaker 5: foot slips and it gets like soaked. So I just
Speaker 5: like take my shoes and talked off because like I mean,
Speaker 5: my foot sweat, I might as well just try it.
Speaker 5: And then basically just after that, I uh, just up
Speaker 5: there for a while. Yeah, And that's when I tried
Speaker 5: calling in.
Speaker 2: So, so, are you currently stuck on a rock? What
Speaker 2: does that mean? Like, is your foot stuck somewhere? Is
Speaker 2: your what what do you mean by you're.
Speaker 5: Stuck it's more like I just have nowhere to go.
Speaker 5: Like the rocks around me are like more than five
Speaker 5: feet away, and it's just like I can't they're not
Speaker 5: They're too far to jump. So it's like I'm just
Speaker 5: gonna have to get in at some point.
Speaker 2: Okay, so you're not like stuck, You're just gonna have
Speaker 2: to get wet.
Speaker 5: Yeah, basically, But it's like freezing cool because I'm in
Speaker 5: you know, North America, northern.
Speaker 2: Okay, I thought were I thought we were in some
Speaker 2: kind of a one hundred and twenty seven hours situation.
Speaker 5: No, no, no, it's gonna get really cold.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: I mean you've been on hold by the way for
Speaker 2: forty five minutes, so have you just how long have
Speaker 2: you been on this rock?
Speaker 5: For about an hour?
Speaker 2: You have surprisingly good cell service in the middle of
Speaker 2: the woods.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think at and T is just the it's
Speaker 5: just the.
Speaker 2: It's are you Are you really on a rock right now?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 2: Are you serious?
Speaker 5: I'm serious? I just I don't know. I don't really
Speaker 5: have anywhere to be. I plan my whole day around this,
Speaker 5: so it's like I was just gonna come out here
Speaker 5: until like nighttime, and it's just I don't really have
Speaker 5: anywhere to go, So I just been listening into the
Speaker 5: call music.
Speaker 2: Do you do this a lot where you just kind
Speaker 2: of go hiking by yourself and spend the whole day outside?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Do you learn things about it? Much? But I'm various epiphanies.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like.
Speaker 5: I mean, just really recently, I was just like, I
Speaker 5: just did not think this through, Like, even if I
Speaker 5: did get across, how was I supposed to get back?
Speaker 5: And so I was like, well, should you always think
Speaker 5: about should you always think like five steps ahead? Or
Speaker 5: should you just do it? And I think you just
Speaker 5: need to bet that balance, you know, sometimes you gotta
Speaker 5: think ahead and sometimes you just gotta go for it.
Speaker 3: Mm hmmm.
Speaker 2: I like that. That's a good life analogy.
Speaker 5: I know. Yeah, I know for a fact, once I
Speaker 5: get up to that, once I get across and I
Speaker 5: go up there, it's just gonna I'm gonna have no regrets,
Speaker 5: you know, seeing to the prairie on the other side.
Speaker 2: What are you looking at right now? Can you describe
Speaker 2: the scene.
Speaker 5: Just up and down the river?
Speaker 2: Uh?
Speaker 5: A lot, there's I mean, there's a lot of rocks
Speaker 5: across it, but just really far as like distance as
Speaker 5: far actually just like this. The part that I was
Speaker 5: on to get to this rock, there was a lot
Speaker 5: of little rocks get kind of like start where the
Speaker 5: river was just barely below the the river bed, you
Speaker 5: know what I mean, kind of there's a little bit
Speaker 5: of land and there's a lot of birds on it
Speaker 5: right now, a lot of robins. Pretty cool. I've just
Speaker 5: been watching them.
Speaker 2: What do you hope to do with your life? Michael?
Speaker 5: Basically this, I mean, I'm in college right now, because
Speaker 5: I mean it's still like you still live in a society.
Speaker 5: You need money and stuff, so you need like a degree.
Speaker 5: But I mean, this is really what I live for
Speaker 5: is just not thinking at all. I've mostly just been
Speaker 5: writing a lot of stuff down.
Speaker 2: Have you been Have you been writing down, like like
Speaker 2: your thoughts and feelings?
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, yeah?
Speaker 2: What can I hear the most recently wrote down?
Speaker 5: Okay, so m hm.
Speaker 3: M hmm.
Speaker 5: I'm getting looking at my notebook. Usually just go to spots.
Speaker 5: I'm trying to become a better writer, so I just
Speaker 5: try and describe places as best as I can. Mm hmmm,
Speaker 5: Oh hold on, alright, just I can't.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm is your is your notebook? Wet?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 5: I did keep my back pack off the ground thankfully.
Speaker 3: Okay, I'm fine.
Speaker 2: Do you get it? You find it?
Speaker 5: Yeah, A lot of the recent stuff is about school.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, what what what about school?
Speaker 5: Just like an English class. I've just been talking to
Speaker 5: a professor. So I was just trying, like, I mean,
Speaker 5: just like stuff I gotta do, and like what I'm
Speaker 5: gonna do for homework. Basically, you said you.
Speaker 2: Sound like you got a chill life going on, Michael.
Speaker 5: I mean compared to like everyone else that calls in.
Speaker 5: I mean, I've listened to like your stuff for a
Speaker 5: year now. I'm yeah, I probably have the most stable
Speaker 5: life out of everyone.
Speaker 3: You.
Speaker 2: You're throwing your hat in the ring as the most
Speaker 2: stable person that has ever called in your you are
Speaker 2: in the on a rock right now, in the middle
Speaker 2: of the woods.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but mentally, I'm the most stable person that's ever
Speaker 5: called in here. What makes you say that, Well, just
Speaker 5: because like everyone in here, everyone that calls in usually
Speaker 5: has a bunch of life problems stuff. I really don't
Speaker 5: have any problems other than right now. But I wouldn't
Speaker 5: see this as a problem. I'd see it as more
Speaker 5: of an opportunity.
Speaker 2: So you're saying that the advice that you would give
Speaker 2: to every single person who's called into the show is
Speaker 2: to go find a rock to lay on in the
Speaker 2: middle of the woods.
Speaker 5: I'm not the best advocate. I've never had any mental
Speaker 5: health issues, so it's like I don't really have sympathy
Speaker 5: for people with I can't really feel a sympathy for
Speaker 5: people with that. Yeah, it's a bit of an issue, but.
Speaker 2: Well, it's not necessarily about mental health issues. It's just
Speaker 2: about life, walking around and looking at stuff and thinking things.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I just try to not think as
Speaker 5: much as possible.
Speaker 2: Well, Michael, I feel like we can all learn a
Speaker 2: lot from you. Thank you. Is there anything else you
Speaker 2: want to say to the people of the computer before
Speaker 2: we go?
Speaker 5: Well I did. I didn't want to say, like, you're
Speaker 5: like jingle for the end of the Spotify is like
Speaker 5: so good, it's so catchy. Oh thank you you like
Speaker 5: did you make that?
Speaker 2: That was made by crmony? Okay, anything you want to
Speaker 2: say about have you ever thought of.
Speaker 5: Like having like oh, I'm just gonna probably take a
Speaker 5: nap out here later, so right to shut down?
Speaker 2: So no, no, Well, thank you very much for calling
Speaker 2: and sharing with us your secrets to a good life, Michael.
Speaker 5: No problem, I'll have to the share.
Speaker 2: Take care brother.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But you know, maybe he is the most mentally stable
Speaker 2: person that's ever called in. Maybe he's right, although I
Speaker 2: feel like the most mentally stable person that's ever called
Speaker 2: in wouldn't declare themselves to be that, So it's a
Speaker 2: bit of a catch. Twenty two. I'm gonna go find
Speaker 2: a rock to lay on.
Speaker 3: The cat goes on the line, taking your phone calls
Speaker 3: every night.
Speaker 2: There Bek goes to his eye. He's teaching you aloud
Speaker 2: in the mid of your life, but he's not really
Speaker 2: an expert.