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Speaker 1: Hi, Oh my god, am I on?

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Speaker 2: Yes you are.

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Speaker 1: What's your name, Naudia? It's not my real name, but you.

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Speaker 2: Know, I'm gonna give you some advice if you're going

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Speaker 2: by a if you're going by a fake name, let

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Speaker 2: everyone think it's your real name. It's the point of

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Speaker 2: the fake name to clarify that it's not your real name.

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Speaker 2: It it ruins your progriface.

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Speaker 1: I just don't want to lie.

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Speaker 3: To you, you know what.

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Speaker 2: I respect the intention with which you you did that.

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Speaker 1: Thank you. I'm glad.

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Speaker 2: Uh, what's what's going on?

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Speaker 1: I just want to apologize. If I sound bad, it's

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Speaker 1: because I'm a little under the liver right now. My

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Speaker 1: voice doesn't normally sound like this, but I'm just so

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Speaker 1: psyched that I'm on here. The reason I wanted to

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Speaker 1: talk to you, as I'm sure you know, is because

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Speaker 1: I catfished somebody that I worked with over a year ago,

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Speaker 1: and I broke his heart as the catfish. And now

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Speaker 1: we're like best friends and he still doesn't know that

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Speaker 1: I did this.

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Speaker 3: Mmm.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so uh, how do you first start to catfish

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Speaker 2: this guy?

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Speaker 1: Okay, so it started when he first started working with me.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know anything about him. But one day he

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Speaker 1: said something that came across as like really like homophobic,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, yikes, you know, like you know,

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Speaker 1: you don't just say that shit around people openly. And

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Speaker 1: then I found out from one of the other people

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Speaker 1: that I work with that apparently he told a girl

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Speaker 1: that he wanted to stuff her donut when he was

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Speaker 1: trying to get laid, I guess, and so we thought, yeah, natural,

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Speaker 1: just you know, regular weird things. So I knew that

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Speaker 1: this guy had tender because I joined Tinder around this

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Speaker 1: time that year, and I had seen him while I

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Speaker 1: was swiping on Tender. So we got the idea to

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Speaker 1: make a Tender profile that was like geared specifically towards

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Speaker 1: this guy. Like the profile it was so specific. It

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Speaker 1: was like I love short guys, I love guys that

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Speaker 1: can cook, just like very generic things that just happened

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Speaker 1: to apply to him. And within like a few minutes

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Speaker 1: of us swiping on him, we matched and we started

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Speaker 1: talking to him as a fake profile, and we never

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Speaker 1: had any like in depth conversations with him, at least

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Speaker 1: from our angle. Most of it was just us like

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Speaker 1: saying the weirdest shit and like trying to get like

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Speaker 1: some kind of like reaction or suspicion out of him,

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Speaker 1: and like, I think we told him that our grandma

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Speaker 1: was like addicted to cocaine and that she was hiding

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Speaker 1: coke in the the flower pantry.

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Speaker 2: So did you did you?

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Speaker 3: Ever?

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Speaker 2: How long? How long did you talk to this guy

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Speaker 2: as the fake profile?

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Speaker 1: We talked to him for two months and it ended

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Speaker 1: because he started to get saucy one night and we

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Speaker 1: wanted to see like just how far we could, like

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Speaker 1: what kind of crazy stuff we could say to like

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Speaker 1: scare him away. Like we told him to open his

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Speaker 1: bitch hole for mommy at one point, and that still

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Speaker 1: didn't scare him away, and he started asking for live pictures,

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Speaker 1: so we like panicked and we left him undelivered for

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Speaker 1: like two days, and then a few days later he

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Speaker 1: like just finally ended.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So so you say that he was heartbroken, What

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Speaker 2: did he say to you, either that you found out

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Speaker 2: about in real life or that the uh you found

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Speaker 2: out through the fake profile.

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Speaker 1: He blocked the fake profile after we the The thing

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Speaker 1: we did to I guess really make him go away

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Speaker 1: was we've had some like random dude on her Snapchat

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Speaker 1: story and called him a sexy cowboy and he finally

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Speaker 1: just blocked her, I guess, and then when he came

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Speaker 1: back to work, he seemed really upset. And that was

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Speaker 1: when I first was like, oh, like this like actually

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Speaker 1: affected this guy. And I remember one of my other

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Speaker 1: coworkers asked him what was wrong, and he was like, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: I might want to talk about it later. And that

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Speaker 1: was when I started feeling bad for it, like, you know,

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Speaker 1: beyond just like oh, this is a silly thing I'm doing.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so you said you started to feel bad for

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Speaker 2: I feel bad about doing this. What what did those

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Speaker 2: feelings look like?

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Speaker 1: Well, especially started once I actually like got to know him.

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Speaker 1: It started around the beginning of this year, Like my

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Speaker 1: work started throwing these little parties after work where we

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Speaker 1: all drink and we'd have like a good time. And

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Speaker 1: that was when I started like actually talking to this dude,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, he's actually kind of like

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Speaker 1: cool and sweet, and he eventually like joined my friend

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Speaker 1: group over time, and now like we're really close, and

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Speaker 1: like over time, I've just been feeling like worse and

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Speaker 1: worse about it because it's like he doesn't know about

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Speaker 1: this horrible thing I did. But I know it, and

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Speaker 1: if I tell him, it's like he's never gonna talk

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Speaker 1: to me again. And it's like, as much as I

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Speaker 1: want to tell him, it's like I don't know if

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Speaker 1: it would be worth it, if that makes sense, But

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Speaker 1: I also feel like genuinely guilty about it. But it's

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Speaker 1: just a matter of like if it would be worth to,

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Speaker 1: like how much things would change if I were to

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Speaker 1: like tell him, m.

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Speaker 2: A, is this for you? Has this experience like changed

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Speaker 2: your perspective on people in any way or giving you

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Speaker 2: a lesson of any kind?

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Speaker 1: I think so, Yeah, it's kind of taught me that,

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Speaker 1: like I'm not always right about people from the get go,

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Speaker 1: you know, like that's definitely one thing I've learned, because

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Speaker 1: like at the time, I just thought this guy was

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Speaker 1: like some weird, little homophobic troll, but he's actually like

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Speaker 1: chill with like me and my friend group and everything.

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Speaker 1: So now it's just like, oh, like, you know, if

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Speaker 1: I knew what I knew now, I wouldn't have done it.

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Speaker 1: But I don't know how much I can blame myself

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Speaker 1: for doing it with what I knew at the time.

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Speaker 2: You know, Okay, you said you did this with a friend.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I did this with two of the people I

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Speaker 1: was living with at the time. One of them denies

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Speaker 1: any and all involvement in it to this day, but

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Speaker 1: was definitely involved.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Uh, do they know this guy personally at all?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he has been hanging out with like all of us,

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Speaker 1: Like we hang out at those people's house like regularly.

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Speaker 1: Other people I did it with.

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Speaker 2: So, so, what are their thoughts and feelings about the situation.

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Speaker 1: I'm with one of those people right now. Actually I'm not.

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Speaker 4: Don't worry.

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna put you on the spot.

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Speaker 2: But does she I mean, I'm down to hear from

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Speaker 2: her perspective if she wants to tell us?

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Speaker 1: Do you want to talk to?

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Speaker 4: What am I supposed to say?

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Speaker 3: Hello?

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Speaker 2: Hi? Hi? What's your name?

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Speaker 4: Hi? My name is Meredith.

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Speaker 2: Hello, Meredith. How are you doing?

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Speaker 4: I am doing amazing? I can't believe I'm talking to you.

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Speaker 3: So.

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Speaker 2: Uh, Meredith, you heard your friend tell this story that

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Speaker 2: you were involved with, and you've heard her feelings about it.

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Speaker 3: Hm, what.

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Speaker 2: Are your feelings about it?

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Speaker 4: I have no regrets. I would do it all over again.

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Speaker 2: Interesting, Why do you feel like you would do it

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Speaker 2: all over again?

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Speaker 4: I it was just a wonderful experience, and it's it

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Speaker 4: brought us closer together than me and this other person here.

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Speaker 4: And even though the person who was affected by it

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Speaker 4: is still experiencing the effects, I think it was worth

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Speaker 4: it because he deserved it. It also it also it

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Speaker 4: also changed him for the better, because before he was

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Speaker 4: he's a little homophobic grimlin and then like now he's

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Speaker 4: more open and like, I feel like we did that

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Speaker 4: as the catfish.

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Speaker 2: Why do you think your feelings about this are so

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Speaker 2: different from your friends?

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Speaker 4: Can I tell the truth here? You can let me

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Speaker 4: tell the truth here?

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Speaker 3: Please?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, go ahead, Okay, I had to get permission first.

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Speaker 4: This Naughtia here eventually fell in love with the person

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Speaker 4: that we catfish. I wouldn't say love selling light.

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Speaker 2: Okay, okay, but I mean I mean, look to me,

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Speaker 2: these two retrospectives on this situation.

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Speaker 3: Are not.

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Speaker 2: Like like to me, even the not now that Nadia

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Speaker 2: did have like a deeper personal relationship with this guy

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Speaker 2: feels irrelevant to me in terms of how she now

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Speaker 2: views the situation as a whole because she took a

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Speaker 2: lesson from it of you know, not going you know,

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Speaker 2: not feeling as though you know a person based off

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Speaker 2: of very little information, which is a general broad lesson

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Speaker 2: that has nothing to do really with her having any

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Speaker 2: sort of deep personal relationship with the guy. And I'm wondering,

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Speaker 2: you know that from just an objective level. Does does

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Speaker 2: that not resonate with you as an idea, these ideas

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Speaker 2: that she's talking about as to why she feels guilty

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Speaker 2: about it?

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Speaker 4: No, because for me, I got to know him a

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Speaker 4: little more as just as did Nadia, but I did

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Speaker 4: not eventually like him.

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Speaker 2: Okay, do you feel as though you can do wrong

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Speaker 2: onto people if you feel like you're justified in doing it?

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Speaker 3: Yes?

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Speaker 2: What makes you feel like that?

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Speaker 1: You can't see it? But Meredith is shrugging right now.

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Speaker 2: No, I'm asking you genuine question. It's not like a

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Speaker 2: gotcha moment or anything.

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Speaker 1: I want to know, still shrugging. So I guess I'll

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Speaker 1: speak my piece here. Okay, sure, because I've been having

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Speaker 1: talked about this recently, Because one of the reasons I've

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Speaker 1: been wanting to talk to you about this so bad

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Speaker 1: is because one of my other close friends recently just

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Speaker 1: kind of like confronted me and basically told me that

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Speaker 1: they think I'm like this like mean spirited person who

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Speaker 1: just like enjoys doing these things to people, and this

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Speaker 1: was like the most prominent example, and you.

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Speaker 2: The angel on your shoulder, don't you Apparently yeah, okay,

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Speaker 2: so tell me more.

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Speaker 3: They just.

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Speaker 1: Oh, sorry, you're good. But they they like kind of

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Speaker 1: cited this as like proof that I'm like just generally

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Speaker 1: like not a good person because I can do these

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Speaker 1: things to people. But it's like, again, like I don't

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Speaker 1: think they fully understand that, Like, you know, this isn't

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Speaker 1: something I just did for like no reason. I wasn't

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Speaker 1: like I'm just going to rip this dude's hard out

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Speaker 1: of his chest, even if that's what we ended up

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Speaker 1: doing it. At the time, it wasn't from a place

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Speaker 1: of like genuine malice to an innocent person. It was

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Speaker 1: just like, oh, this guy is like has a really

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Speaker 1: shitty worldview. Let's let's mess with them a little. But

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Speaker 1: now it's turned into like this whole thing where I'm

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Speaker 1: questioning my own morality.

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Speaker 2: Well even that, I mean even I mean, that's that's

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Speaker 2: I guess when I'm asking Meredith. And again again I'm

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Speaker 2: not you know, inflecting any kind of like you know,

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Speaker 2: personal view on it, but I I want to understand

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Speaker 2: deeper like why, I mean, do you I mean, do

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Speaker 2: you feel as though if you feel like you're justified,

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Speaker 2: uh to to do something to someone that you should

224
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Speaker 2: do it?

225
00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:51,679
Speaker 1: Is that to both of us or just Meredith?

226
00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:52,080
Speaker 5: Sorry?

227
00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:54,680
Speaker 2: Well I asked it to Meredith and she she doesn't

228
00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:56,640
Speaker 2: have an answer, which is which is fine, But I'm

229
00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:57,560
Speaker 2: curious what yours is.

230
00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:07,400
Speaker 1: That is a good question. That's That's definitely another thing

231
00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:09,440
Speaker 1: I've been struggling with because at the time, like another

232
00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:12,560
Speaker 1: element of it was like it just felt like a

233
00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:15,960
Speaker 1: funny thing to do, like I guess, not something necessarily

234
00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:19,000
Speaker 1: that I should do, but that like you know, like, oh,

235
00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:21,200
Speaker 1: I'll get a kick out of seeing what like this

236
00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:25,120
Speaker 1: weird little man says to his like fake tender soulmates.

237
00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:32,040
Speaker 2: Well, it's funny that you guys are friends. I mean,

238
00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:38,600
Speaker 2: it sounds like you have gained a new perspective out

239
00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:43,880
Speaker 2: of this situation. And yeah, I don't know. Hopefully that

240
00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:48,160
Speaker 2: perspective is helpful to you and you believe in it

241
00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:52,560
Speaker 2: and that it guides you towards doing the things in

242
00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:57,760
Speaker 2: the future that you you are proud of. I guess.

243
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:01,240
Speaker 1: Do you think we should tell him? Yet?

244
00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:03,880
Speaker 2: I cannot answer that question.

245
00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:07,840
Speaker 1: I appreciate that.

246
00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:11,200
Speaker 2: Let me ask you that I can. I ask you

247
00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:12,080
Speaker 2: a question before we.

248
00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:15,280
Speaker 1: Go, Yes, ask me a question.

249
00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:21,320
Speaker 2: Do you think you should tell him?

250
00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:23,400
Speaker 1: Well, I guess I'm gonna go right back at you

251
00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:26,360
Speaker 1: with the I don't have an answer to that because

252
00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:29,920
Speaker 1: on a moral standpoint, I think I should, But on

253
00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:34,800
Speaker 1: a standpoint of like basic self preservation and not wanting

254
00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:39,760
Speaker 1: to dig up old wounds, I also don't think I

255
00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:42,680
Speaker 1: should because I think telling him would ultimately harm both

256
00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:44,760
Speaker 1: me and him more than it would, like help me

257
00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:48,240
Speaker 1: relieve myself with this burden. If that makes sense.

258
00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:52,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, that does make sense. It does make sense. I

259
00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:56,520
Speaker 2: don't know. I'm not the fucking moral police, and I

260
00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:59,200
Speaker 2: don't even think, thank you. I don't. Well, nobody fucking

261
00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:01,560
Speaker 2: acts morally all I don't fucking act morally all the time.

262
00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:06,840
Speaker 2: I gotta sit here and tell you two. So, I mean,

263
00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:10,360
Speaker 2: do whatever feels right. I suppose that was a stupid

264
00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:11,720
Speaker 2: thing to say. I could have just said nothing, but

265
00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:14,000
Speaker 2: I said do what ever feels right, which doesn't make

266
00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:16,760
Speaker 2: any sense. God damn it, do what ever feels right?

267
00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:17,080
Speaker 3: Now? Do you?

268
00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:18,320
Speaker 2: Is there anything else you want to say to the

269
00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:19,520
Speaker 2: people of the computer before we go.

270
00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:23,760
Speaker 1: I just wanted to say I was totally like stoked

271
00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:26,440
Speaker 1: that you took my call. I'm sure everyone says that,

272
00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:28,360
Speaker 1: but it just made my night, Like you have no

273
00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:30,800
Speaker 1: idea how long I've wanted to talk to you. Everyone,

274
00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:34,440
Speaker 1: don't catfish weird little guys that you work with. They

275
00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:36,280
Speaker 1: might turn out to be kind of cool.

276
00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:39,920
Speaker 2: Meredith. Any is Meredith still there? Does she have any

277
00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:41,000
Speaker 2: final words before we go?

278
00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:47,800
Speaker 1: Fuck bitches, get money?

279
00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:49,480
Speaker 2: Thank yes for calling?

280
00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:51,880
Speaker 4: Thank you?

281
00:16:55,920 --> 00:17:01,120
Speaker 2: That that poses an interesting question. Should you fuck with

282
00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:06,640
Speaker 2: people if you feel like they deserve it? And as

283
00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:12,520
Speaker 2: somebody who has fucked with people in my life before

284
00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:16,080
Speaker 2: because I felt like they deserved it, I don't know

285
00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:19,760
Speaker 2: the answer to that question. I mean, at this point

286
00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:21,600
Speaker 2: in my life, I feel like the answer is no.

287
00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:25,800
Speaker 2: But I don't know. Some person who knows about like

288
00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:30,720
Speaker 2: history and fucking science and psychology or something could sit

289
00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:33,280
Speaker 2: down and have some good argument as to why you

290
00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:36,080
Speaker 2: should be able to do things if you feel justified

291
00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:41,200
Speaker 2: in doing it. But I guess my thing is I don't.

292
00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:43,840
Speaker 2: And again, in the when I was in a fucking

293
00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:45,240
Speaker 2: in high school, I probably fucked with a lot of

294
00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:48,280
Speaker 2: people just because I felt like, you know, they deserved it.

295
00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:53,040
Speaker 2: I should be able to fuck with them. But to me,

296
00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:57,560
Speaker 2: that feels childish. That's why I did it when I

297
00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:04,720
Speaker 2: was a child, because what I don't I guess where

298
00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:07,680
Speaker 2: I stand now in my life. I don't feel comfortable

299
00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:16,239
Speaker 2: designating myself as like the universe's moral arbiter. Like I

300
00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:20,560
Speaker 2: get to decide who has done wrong, and then I

301
00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:26,800
Speaker 2: get to decide that they deserve something or don't deserve something.

302
00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:32,760
Speaker 2: That's just not a power I feel comfortable wielding, and

303
00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:37,600
Speaker 2: so I don't. I don't know if it's a power

304
00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:44,240
Speaker 2: that any one mortal shall wield. That's why I'm not

305
00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:49,400
Speaker 2: a fucking this is I'm not Christian, but I do

306
00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:54,960
Speaker 2: believe in the weird hippie sense that only God can judge.

307
00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:58,880
Speaker 2: And so if I decide to judge, does that make

308
00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:03,600
Speaker 2: me am I declaring myself as a god? Isn't that

309
00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:11,320
Speaker 2: insane to declare yourself as a god? All right, let's

310
00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:11,960
Speaker 2: take another call.

311
00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:20,879
Speaker 3: Hello, Hi, Hi, I'm Noko, Noko.

312
00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:21,560
Speaker 2: How are you doing?

313
00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:25,800
Speaker 3: I'm live and kicking, and that's not it?

314
00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:29,840
Speaker 2: Noko? How can I how can I get you today?

315
00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:31,320
Speaker 2: What's going on with you in the universe?

316
00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:36,359
Speaker 3: Well? I have a shut in. I've been a shut

317
00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:43,600
Speaker 3: in for years, a year at least, and I was

318
00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:46,479
Speaker 3: going fine because I was doing remote work. That they

319
00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:50,160
Speaker 3: cut my remote hours from five days a week to two.

320
00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:55,119
Speaker 3: And then my significant others she's not too I'm happy

321
00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:57,520
Speaker 3: about not being able to go outside with me. So

322
00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:04,240
Speaker 3: it's just my shudden ness is just starting to get

323
00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:05,160
Speaker 3: in the way of my life.

324
00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:12,879
Speaker 2: So tell me where the shutting ness originated from.

325
00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:20,960
Speaker 3: I wish I knew there's on and off for my

326
00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:25,480
Speaker 3: entire adult life, but and then as a teenager, I

327
00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:27,960
Speaker 3: was always stuck in the house.

328
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:35,600
Speaker 2: So so is this is this like a gloraphobia?

329
00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:41,119
Speaker 3: That's what the what the term I used before I

330
00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:43,840
Speaker 3: started seeing a doctor and then she told me, no,

331
00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:48,080
Speaker 3: it's not a gloraphobia. And then we haven't come to

332
00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:55,200
Speaker 3: a diagnosis yet after six months of sessions. But it's

333
00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:56,960
Speaker 3: not a gorphobia, apparently.

334
00:20:57,400 --> 00:20:59,240
Speaker 2: Tell me more about what the doctor is telling you.

335
00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:02,479
Speaker 2: Why what what information have they given you as to

336
00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:04,359
Speaker 2: what might be going on with.

337
00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:12,159
Speaker 3: You outside of the normal depression. And they're claiming PTSD

338
00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:17,000
Speaker 3: but I don't even know what could even be PTSD

339
00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:23,200
Speaker 3: in my life. But yeah, I don't know why and

340
00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:26,600
Speaker 3: I'm not too concerned why if it wasn't. Honestly, I'd

341
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,840
Speaker 3: be okay with never leaving the house. If I could

342
00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:32,919
Speaker 3: just work, people would let me work, you know.

343
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:39,879
Speaker 2: So you would be okay with never leaving the house

344
00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:41,960
Speaker 2: if it didn't affect your work. So you have no

345
00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:47,640
Speaker 2: this is not a thing that you even desire to overcome.

346
00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:55,119
Speaker 3: Not particularly, And I'd rather set my life around not

347
00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:58,600
Speaker 3: leaving than leaving.

348
00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:02,480
Speaker 2: You know, it's not necessary. And if you don't have it,

349
00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:04,439
Speaker 2: that's cool. And if you don't even want to tell me,

350
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:11,120
Speaker 2: that's cool. But do you have a explanation of some kind? Again,

351
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:15,399
Speaker 2: you don't even need to, But do you have an

352
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:19,080
Speaker 2: explanation of some kind as to why you have no

353
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:20,760
Speaker 2: desire to overcome this?

354
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:29,720
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't have an explicit reason. It's just

355
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:34,760
Speaker 3: I'd rather be comfortable than uncomfortable. I guess I'd rather

356
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:39,159
Speaker 3: not deal with the anxieties that come with dealing with

357
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:44,879
Speaker 3: the public and people and strangers and all that. Sure,

358
00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:49,439
Speaker 3: But I guess that's about all the reason that I

359
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:50,359
Speaker 3: have got, you know.

360
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:54,560
Speaker 2: Okay, I you know, look, I think that's legitimately. I

361
00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:59,200
Speaker 2: think you're you know, as a free human on the earth.

362
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:03,760
Speaker 2: You are entitled and compelled to live your life in

363
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:08,919
Speaker 2: whatever way you choose, but you're finding it difficult to

364
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:13,080
Speaker 2: work in these constraints.

365
00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:18,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, i've before. See I started working remote in twenty twenty.

366
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:22,280
Speaker 3: Well what it it's twenty twenty two now, so it

367
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:25,680
Speaker 3: would have been twenty twenty one. I started working remote

368
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:30,840
Speaker 3: for the first time. But before then, i'd be able

369
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 3: to work for I don't know, like three months or so,

370
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:38,120
Speaker 3: and then just stop going in, just no call, no show,

371
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:42,600
Speaker 3: and never never come back or talk to them again.

372
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,280
Speaker 3: And then I started working remote, and then I actually

373
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:53,960
Speaker 3: started working for it's really started working for the state.

374
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:59,679
Speaker 3: And apparently you can't get fired from the state. So

375
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 3: when I just stopped going in and talking to everybody,

376
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 3: instead of just firing me, they actually reached out and said, hey,

377
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:08,879
Speaker 3: we can provide you with a doctor. Just go to

378
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:13,679
Speaker 3: this doctor, be remote and keep doing your work. And

379
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 3: then a couple of weeks ago they said, well the

380
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,160
Speaker 3: remote time's over. You need to start going back into

381
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:24,880
Speaker 3: the office. And at that point I told my doctor, hey,

382
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 3: I can't do this, and she said, well, you can

383
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:31,920
Speaker 3: take fml not fuck my life, but family medical leave,

384
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:35,439
Speaker 3: which is cool. Which means I won't get fired, but

385
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 3: it also means I'm not getting paid three days a week.

386
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm a single father and you know, just

387
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:48,760
Speaker 3: trying to make it on my own, which is not

388
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:54,440
Speaker 3: easy paying rent on a single income.

389
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:59,159
Speaker 2: Have you looked into any alternative work that you might

390
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:03,199
Speaker 2: be able to do from home, just.

391
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 3: Just just some remote stuff. I've tried to look at

392
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 3: a couple of different things, and I've even been told

393
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:13,480
Speaker 3: that I qualify to go on disability and get those

394
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 3: neat bucks. But it's just it's much to do, you know.

395
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 3: The doctor's prescribed of all things ken of me, and

396
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 3: I don't know how I feel about that.

397
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 2: I wanted to ask you this year, your father, Yeah,

398
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:42,440
Speaker 2: how has what's been going on with you affected that

399
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 2: aspect of your life?

400
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:53,679
Speaker 3: Oh? My kid's twelve now and they're more interested in

401
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 3: staying in and playing games anyway, which I so it's

402
00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:01,240
Speaker 3: really just a guilt thing. Having know, I'd like to

403
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 3: take them out and go and do things, but it's

404
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 3: already hard enough for me. And when they say, oh,

405
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 3: I don't want to do anything anyway. Yeah, so it's

406
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:20,880
Speaker 3: it's affecting my guilt a lot. I feel like I'm

407
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 3: not doing I'm setting a bad example, you know.

408
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 2: Mm Hm, does that guilt compel you to change anything?

409
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 3: That guilt has kept me from commit becoming an hero

410
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:50,639
Speaker 3: a couple of times, but and it's kept me from

411
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:56,399
Speaker 3: running away out of the state and going and living

412
00:26:56,400 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 3: in the woods. But uh, and I guess it's what's

413
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 3: keeping me going to see a doctor. I mean, I

414
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:07,880
Speaker 3: could just say do what I've always done and say

415
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 3: screw it. I'm just gonna like just quit my job

416
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 3: and screw this mental health thing. It's not working, you know,

417
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 3: for six months and nothing's changed. But like, h, they're

418
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:32,440
Speaker 3: keeping being going. I guess you don't really like I do.

419
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:41,120
Speaker 3: I do, and especially now, ah, because they're getting older

420
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:47,919
Speaker 3: and this is the time when they're really learning life,

421
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 3: you know. And uh, I really like teaching her about

422
00:27:54,119 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 3: these things, but it's hard not to be give her

423
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:04,720
Speaker 3: a bleak outlook on things too. HM.

424
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:14,879
Speaker 2: Do you have in your mind an outlook a vision

425
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 2: of philosophy of any kind for her that you would

426
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:27,159
Speaker 2: like to see her adopt or open up to, just

427
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 2: about life, even if it's different from your personal one.

428
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 3: I really wish I could say, Yeah, it's a lot

429
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 3: of times, you know, and like hard things happen. H

430
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 3: I don't know what to say, and I end up

431
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 3: just sitting next to her, you know, because if I

432
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:57,239
Speaker 3: were to say what's on my mind, then it's just

433
00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 3: incredibly bleak and it's best not to give my view

434
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 3: of my world view.

435
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 2: Yeah that makes sense, Yeah, it does, it does.

436
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 3: Mm hmm.

437
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 2: No, col it sounds like it sounds like you are

438
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 2: dealing with a lot, and it's good to hear.

439
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 3: That you.

440
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 2: Are still doing the best you can in spite of that.

441
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying. It sounds to me like

442
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 2: you're doing the best to be the best father that

443
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 2: you can within the constraints of your mental health issues.

444
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know what else to do, you know.

445
00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:02,320
Speaker 3: It's yeah, it's a by day thing for me right now,

446
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 3: and it's.

447
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 2: Just you know, but I mean just to just to

448
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 2: I mean, look at the ways from what you've told

449
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 2: me on the phone in which you're trying like going

450
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 2: to the doctor like you. I mean, you said this yourself.

451
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 2: I just want to point it out, you know, you totally.

452
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 2: I mean, like I told you earlier, I was like,

453
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 2: you are free as a human being to live life.

454
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 2: However you want. You don't have to make any attempt

455
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 2: to change how you're currently living. But you're going to

456
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 2: the doctor. You don't have to go to You're a

457
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 2: grown man. You don't have to go to the doctor

458
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 2: ran too. But you're doing it. But you're doing it

459
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 2: because you want to try, because you want to be

460
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 2: a better father. I think that's an admirable thing to do,

461
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 2: to try to help yourself so that you can be

462
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 2: a better father. I just wanted to say.

463
00:30:51,040 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 3: That, Yeah, yeah, and I and that's ultimately I want

464
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 3: to I want to be a better father. I want

465
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 3: to be a better significant other, I want to be

466
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 3: a better son, and I want to be a better employee. Mhm.

467
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 3: But something, why can't they just see it my way?

468
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 3: You know?

469
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 2: So you're going what kind of what kind of doctor

470
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 2: are you? Do you also speak with a I don't know.

471
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 2: I don't know what the types of doctors are for

472
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 2: what you're going to a therapy? Okay, So what has

473
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 2: your psychotherapist told you anything else that's been helpful to you?

474
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 3: Honestly? I mean she comes from like I love acid,

475
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:45,080
Speaker 3: I love lsky. I take it maybe like once or

476
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 3: twice a year and and I really lucked out because

477
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 3: she doesn't condemn me for my LD and my cannabis

478
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 3: use and all this other stuff. She doesn't say, oh,

479
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:58,960
Speaker 3: well that's your problem. You got to stop that, you know.

480
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 3: But no, she she listens to me, which has been

481
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 3: really good. It's all. That's it, you know what I mean,

482
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 3: It's just, yeah, that sucks. I wish you could do

483
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 3: I wish you could have things better, try thinking different,

484
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 3: you know, I don't know.

485
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 2: Did she get what's the most helpful thing you think

486
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 2: she's told you? Or that you're just that you've gotten

487
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 2: out of that experience.

488
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 3: Someone to talk to every every week.

489
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:30,959
Speaker 2: M hm.

490
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 3: That's that's really I mean, that's that's been helpful, and

491
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 3: it's been helpful and like remembering things I have, my

492
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 3: memory is just gone. But she she does she said

493
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 3: that that's a sentiment of PTSD apparently, but she just

494
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 3: is just gone. And so she's kind of like unearthed

495
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 3: a couple of things. There's just been like two or

496
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 3: three sessions that it's just you know, a typical therapy

497
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 3: session when you're out, when you're done with it and

498
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 3: you're just bawling at the end of it or whatever,

499
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 3: and so there's been a couple of those. I guess

500
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 3: that's that's I guess that's progress. I guess that counts

501
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 3: as progress.

502
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 2: Okay, So like in defining progress, can I ask you this,

503
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 2: and you know, look, tell me the truth of however

504
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 2: you feel. But day to day or I guess week

505
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 2: to week as time goes on, are you noticing, even

506
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 2: if it's microscopic, are you noticing any kind of trajectory

507
00:33:53,440 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 2: upwards or downwards in dealing with this problem?

508
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, i'd say neither. It just seems I just feel

509
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:09,280
Speaker 3: the same. It's like it comes in ebbs and flows,

510
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 3: you know, where I get really really bad for a

511
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:16,760
Speaker 3: little while. Then I kind of like plateau at an

512
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 3: okay level. And I've been all that plateau for a while,

513
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 3: so but I'm just waiting for the time when it

514
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:33,360
Speaker 3: dips down again. Yeah, And it's good to know that

515
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 3: she's there and she's doing a pro bono, right. I

516
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 3: have insurance through my job and she's not even taking

517
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:42,799
Speaker 3: the money, so she'll be there even if I did

518
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 3: leave my job, which is a relief to say the least.

519
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:54,600
Speaker 3: And also knowing that she's not going to call the

520
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 3: cops if I say something suicidal and get me in

521
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:03,720
Speaker 3: more debt.

522
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 2: You know, I feel like I'm not obviously I think

523
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 2: we all know I'm obviously not a real therapist, you know,

524
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:13,880
Speaker 2: I think one of my big takeaways, I don't know

525
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:16,320
Speaker 2: if your real therapist has but I said this already.

526
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:18,880
Speaker 2: I don't know if your real therapist has brought this

527
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:22,439
Speaker 2: up or if this is something that you believe about

528
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:24,800
Speaker 2: yourself because you told me about like all this guilt

529
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 2: that you have, and if it does any help to

530
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 2: alleviate the guilt, and I might not, I don't know,

531
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 2: but I do hope that you recognize, at least from

532
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:48,399
Speaker 2: my perspective, it sounds as though you are you are

533
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 2: doing the best you can to help yourself, to be

534
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 2: a good father, to be a better significant other, to

535
00:35:56,040 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 2: be a good son by just showing up every week

536
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:07,720
Speaker 2: to work on it. Just you're trying, and you're trying

537
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 2: the best you can within your constraints, and I hope

538
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 2: that you're not feeling guilty about that not being good enough,

539
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:28,479
Speaker 2: because it's it's a lot. Let's I'll say it again.

540
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:30,400
Speaker 2: We both we both said it where you were like,

541
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:32,319
Speaker 2: I don't have to fucking go to the dock I

542
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 2: don't have to work on this. You don't, You really don't.

543
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:36,840
Speaker 2: You really don't have to. You could if you wanted to,

544
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:43,759
Speaker 2: be like, fuck everything, I'm gonna not even work on

545
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 2: this issue because I'm too afraid to or I don't

546
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 2: feel like it. But you are. You're showing up to

547
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 2: therapy every week. You're even you know what, You're even

548
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 2: not noticing progress right away, but you're still showing up

549
00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:01,240
Speaker 2: because you so badly want to be a good father,

550
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:05,680
Speaker 2: to be all those things. And I hope you recognize

551
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 2: that that's a big deal and that's not nothing, and

552
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 2: I hope you feel good about that, and I hope

553
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:18,360
Speaker 2: that that alleviates the guilt because you're dealing with a

554
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:24,800
Speaker 2: tough issue, but your role, you're standing beneath the boulder

555
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 2: every day, pushing on it. You're not letting it roll

556
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:31,439
Speaker 2: back down the hill.

557
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 3: You know.

558
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 2: You're pushing on the boulder. You're not giving up. And

559
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 2: I don't know how long it's gonna take. And I'm

560
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 2: not a real therapist, and I can't sit here and

561
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 2: tell you whether or not things are going to give.

562
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 2: I can't sit here and tell you about the trajectory

563
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:54,879
Speaker 2: because I don't know, but I hope you feel good

564
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 2: about that, and I hope that you continue to show

565
00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:00,799
Speaker 2: up every day and work on this, and I hope

566
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 2: that as you do, you stop feeling so guilty because

567
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 2: you really are doing the best you can, and I think,

568
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 2: I think that makes you a good father.

569
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:23,200
Speaker 3: I appreciate those words. I do. I do. It is

570
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 3: the best I can.

571
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 2: Is enough, Noko, Is there anything else you want to

572
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:32,880
Speaker 2: say to the people of the computer or any aspect

573
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:39,240
Speaker 2: of this that you feel like we didn't talk about

574
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:42,320
Speaker 2: that that you would want to talk about.

575
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:44,880
Speaker 3: No, glad you talked to me.

576
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 2: Thank you, Yeah, thanks for sharing this stuff. It's you know,

577
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 2: I know, it's it's a lot, and I appreciate you

578
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 2: sharing it because you never know who's listening to this,

579
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 2: and perhaps somebody else is in you know, some form

580
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 2: of a similar circumstance and has helped you, uh sharing,

581
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:03,279
Speaker 2: So thanks for doing that.

582
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 3: Thanks thanksking laugh, take care, nokop my mind?

583
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 2: How sorry that is inappropriate to make silly noises after

584
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 2: that call. It just was my own personal version of

585
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 2: Catharsis after dealing with a heavy topic, I shiit. My

586
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:30,799
Speaker 2: post call thoughts are just me reiterating all the things

587
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 2: that I've said, do but fuck it, why not? Yes,

588
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:42,160
Speaker 2: I think it's uh. They're like, we have limited capacities,

589
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 2: limited energy, and limited time and limited health, and I

590
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:55,959
Speaker 2: think it's it's important to just fucking focus on doing

591
00:39:55,960 --> 00:40:00,440
Speaker 2: what you can with what you have. And that's uh

592
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 2: what Noko is doing, man. And I hope he feels

593
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 2: empowered by that. And I hope that the empower I

594
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:13,400
Speaker 2: hope he feels empowered by that, and I hope the

595
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 2: empowerment he feels overcomes beats out the guilt and motivates

596
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:20,640
Speaker 2: him to keep showing up. I wasn't gonna say it

597
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 2: to him because I don't like to promise that. I

598
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:25,279
Speaker 2: don't like to say it gets better because it's I

599
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 2: don't know, but I have an inkling of a feeling.

600
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 2: Maybe it's a naive feeling, but an inkling of a

601
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 2: feeling that if he shows up continuously to work on

602
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:44,719
Speaker 2: the problem, I don't know how long, and I might

603
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:48,640
Speaker 2: not even I fucking might not be right, but I

604
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 2: would think after some period of time that it would

605
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:59,719
Speaker 2: get better. And I cannot tell the future, but I

606
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:03,399
Speaker 2: hope that it does. And I appreciate you for calling

607
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 2: Noko Hello, Hi is this Greg?

608
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:09,480
Speaker 4: Yeah?

609
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 2: It is. Uh what's life like, Greg?

610
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:16,440
Speaker 6: Life's busy?

611
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was? It busy with school.

612
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:25,840
Speaker 6: I'm finishing my degree finally after a million and a

613
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 6: half years.

614
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 2: What are you getting? The degree in.

615
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:33,400
Speaker 6: Art and graphic design?

616
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:34,719
Speaker 2: Yeah?

617
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:37,239
Speaker 6: Yeah, nothing, fancy.

618
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 2: Greg, What is it that you wanted to talk about today?

619
00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:48,600
Speaker 6: So, as I'm sure you saw, I used to think

620
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 6: that my life was like the Truman Show, but I

621
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:55,480
Speaker 6: didn't know the Truman Show existed, if that makes any sense.

622
00:41:56,280 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 6: Like I used to think that everything in my life

623
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:05,840
Speaker 6: was like meant. I mean, I guess it's meant to happen,

624
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:09,400
Speaker 6: but like people were watching me through cameras and like

625
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 6: monitoring my moves and like does that make sense?

626
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:16,600
Speaker 2: Yeah? So you thought that you were being watched and

627
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:18,399
Speaker 2: this was before you even knew that the Truman Show

628
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:18,799
Speaker 2: was a thing.

629
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:20,439
Speaker 3: Yeah.

630
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:20,799
Speaker 2: Yeah.

631
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 6: So then like once I finally told people like hey, guys,

632
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 6: like I think, like I think I'm crazy, and they're like, no,

633
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 6: that's just the Truman Show And I was like no, no, no,

634
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:36,919
Speaker 6: like genuinely I think I'm crazy. What is Truman Show?

635
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, How did you feel when you found out

636
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 2: that this was a thing? That was actually fictionalized.

637
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:48,800
Speaker 6: I kind of felt stupid. I was like, well, I

638
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:53,280
Speaker 6: feel like I don't know that I'm just crazy.

639
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:57,719
Speaker 2: Is this something that you still feel or is this

640
00:42:57,719 --> 00:42:58,839
Speaker 2: the fear that you've gotten over?

641
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:05,080
Speaker 6: For the most part, I've gotten over it. Like living

642
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:08,960
Speaker 6: as like a being watched every move like cameras and

643
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:11,439
Speaker 6: like people on queue type thing like okay, go now

644
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 6: she's doing this type thing. I've gotten over that. But

645
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:20,279
Speaker 6: like I'm obviously mentally unstable undiagnosed.

646
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:28,840
Speaker 2: For how long were you feeling like you were being watched?

647
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 6: I mean it was like the majority of like my

648
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 6: high school years. Like I have a very vivid memory

649
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:43,320
Speaker 6: of like being in like the back hallways of school

650
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:45,920
Speaker 6: and I'm like thinking, Okay, once I turn this corner,

651
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:48,759
Speaker 6: they're gonna tell the people on the other side of

652
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:50,840
Speaker 6: that wall, like Okay, she's coming around the corner, like

653
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:54,239
Speaker 6: go you know what I mean, Like everybody was kind

654
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 6: of on a queue around me.

655
00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:02,160
Speaker 2: So how did this feeling like you're being watched effect

656
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:04,120
Speaker 2: kind of the way that you lived your life?

657
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:09,520
Speaker 6: I feel like I was. I was very impulsive and

658
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 6: I tried to like do things. I'm like, this is

659
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:14,480
Speaker 6: gonna throw them off today, like this is gonna this

660
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:16,040
Speaker 6: is gonna you know, throw them off, and they're not

661
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:17,680
Speaker 6: gonna know how to react to this. And I like

662
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:22,840
Speaker 6: try to catch people off guard like they were instructed. Okay, Greg,

663
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:25,040
Speaker 6: here is gonna react this way, so then you're gonna

664
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:27,080
Speaker 6: react like this. So then I would try to do

665
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 6: something crazy out of the ordinary to see if they're like, oh, okay,

666
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:34,480
Speaker 6: we didn't we weren't prepared for you to react like this,

667
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:38,600
Speaker 6: like our head honcho, doesn't you know to tell us

668
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:39,839
Speaker 6: what to do after this?

669
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:42,680
Speaker 2: So you would do things out of your routine and

670
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:46,279
Speaker 2: to try to trip up the camera crew?

671
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 1: Yes?

672
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 2: Interesting? Uh did did? Did you ever do like things

673
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:57,919
Speaker 2: that were just irrational because you were trying to trip

674
00:44:58,000 --> 00:44:58,719
Speaker 2: up the camera crew?

675
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 6: I mean kind of not really. I mean it was

676
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:07,160
Speaker 6: like kind of just like stupid little things where like

677
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:11,400
Speaker 6: I would try to like read people's like their body

678
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:15,600
Speaker 6: language in a sense, seeing if like I could catch

679
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:18,320
Speaker 6: them off and notice that they're being weird and like

680
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 6: they're kind of on like a script and if I'm

681
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:24,239
Speaker 6: not like not following this said script.

682
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:30,920
Speaker 2: What is it that made you realize that you're not

683
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:35,760
Speaker 2: being watched? Was it the realization that a movie about

684
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:36,520
Speaker 2: this existed.

685
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:42,399
Speaker 6: Yeah, that, and like you know, I tell people, I'm like, oh,

686
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:44,279
Speaker 6: you know, kind of a joke. I'm like, hey, I

687
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:47,279
Speaker 6: think my life was like the simulation, like scripted, and

688
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 6: you all were put in my life, like you were

689
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:52,160
Speaker 6: hired to do this. And they're like okay, like they

690
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 6: kind of not really guilty because they made me feel

691
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:56,759
Speaker 6: stupid about it. So I'm like, ah, I'm just an

692
00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:58,719
Speaker 6: idiot for thinking this, like it's weird for me to

693
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:01,120
Speaker 6: think this. And then of course when I heard about

694
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:03,400
Speaker 6: the Truman Show, I was like, oh, that's how I

695
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:08,320
Speaker 6: feel felt not really anymore, but right.

696
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:10,080
Speaker 2: You're saying you say that for the most you said,

697
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:12,799
Speaker 2: for the most part, you don't feel like this, And

698
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:16,280
Speaker 2: I feel like you wouldn't have said that if some

699
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:23,319
Speaker 2: hint of a little something was lingering. What is it

700
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:27,879
Speaker 2: that is preventing you from saying I am completely over this.

701
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:33,400
Speaker 6: I guess it's like I don't know, I'm like not

702
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 6: a spiritual person whatsoever, but I still think like it's

703
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 6: like so cliche, but like everything kind of happens for

704
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:43,719
Speaker 6: a reason, and like in the sense of like you know,

705
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:47,480
Speaker 6: if it's going to happen. It's going to happen, so

706
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:49,359
Speaker 6: not in like the sense that like there's a camera crew,

707
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:51,920
Speaker 6: but like I can't really control what's going on. I

708
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 6: don't know what's going on around me. But yeah, if

709
00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:00,560
Speaker 6: that makes sense, I feel like I'm not making sense here.

710
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 2: Well okay, So I mean, is it the idea that

711
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:07,880
Speaker 2: life is sort of deterministic and that all of your

712
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:11,319
Speaker 2: actions have been pre planned in a sense you're just

713
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:12,080
Speaker 2: following out?

714
00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:12,640
Speaker 5: Yeah?

715
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:13,879
Speaker 6: Yeah for the most part.

716
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:14,440
Speaker 5: Yeah.

717
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 2: Yeah. Do you feel as though you have free will?

718
00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:18,040
Speaker 3: Greg?

719
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:23,600
Speaker 6: For the most part, Yeah, I kind of just feel

720
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:25,239
Speaker 6: like I go through the emotions every day and I

721
00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:26,879
Speaker 6: feel like, I don't know.

722
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:28,200
Speaker 5: I don't know.

723
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:31,120
Speaker 6: It's it's a weird part of my brain that I try.

724
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:32,799
Speaker 6: I'm like, I try not to look too much into

725
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 6: it because I don't know. And I think that's what

726
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:37,800
Speaker 6: makes me spiral, is because.

727
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:37,960
Speaker 3: I don't know.

728
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 2: Have you talked to a real therapist about this stuff?

729
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:48,120
Speaker 6: No, I'm too scared.

730
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:49,200
Speaker 2: Why are you scared?

731
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:55,279
Speaker 6: I'm scared they're gonna tell me I'm crazy, which I

732
00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:55,879
Speaker 6: probably am.

733
00:47:55,960 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 2: But why knowing you're afraid of being told that you're

734
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:07,960
Speaker 2: crazy or of living in a reality in which you

735
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:12,920
Speaker 2: actually are some kind of a you know whatever, you

736
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:15,000
Speaker 2: have some sort of mental illness you don't want to

737
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:26,359
Speaker 2: face that. If that's the case, yeah, tell me more

738
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:27,400
Speaker 2: about why you're afraid of that.

739
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:34,120
Speaker 6: I guess I don't know. I'm like in a place

740
00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:37,400
Speaker 6: in my life where I'm like cool with what's going on.

741
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:42,760
Speaker 6: I'm like finally okay with waking up and being alive.

742
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:46,160
Speaker 6: So I feel like I'm scared that if I put

743
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:48,239
Speaker 6: something new in my life, Like I'm I've been doing

744
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:50,400
Speaker 6: the same thing kind of for the past ever since,

745
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:53,960
Speaker 6: so I don't know, five years ago or so, So

746
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:58,000
Speaker 6: I feel like if I throw something new into my life,

747
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:02,000
Speaker 6: it like makes me crumble because I'm not your new

748
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:02,680
Speaker 6: things happening.

749
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:05,120
Speaker 2: If that makes yeah, no, it actually makes a lot

750
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:07,359
Speaker 2: of your your I mean, it sounds like it took

751
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:10,319
Speaker 2: you a while to get to a point that you're

752
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:13,880
Speaker 2: feeling good about and now you're here and you're feeling

753
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:18,160
Speaker 2: good and uh, you've reached this like state of equilibrium

754
00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:26,479
Speaker 2: and you don't want to fuck with it because it's fragile, right, well,

755
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:31,440
Speaker 2: does any part of you? And I don't know, I'm

756
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:35,680
Speaker 2: not gonna it's really not my place to argue with

757
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:39,960
Speaker 2: that mode of operation. It's really not can I ask

758
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:41,279
Speaker 2: you look, let me ask you this, then, let me

759
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:43,239
Speaker 2: ask you this. What do you feel like it is

760
00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:49,239
Speaker 2: right now that is giving your life a state of

761
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:56,480
Speaker 2: peaceful equilibrium?

762
00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 6: I guess I don't know. Like I finally am, like

763
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:03,400
Speaker 6: I said earlier, finishing up school, which was something I

764
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:07,279
Speaker 6: never really got into the groove of. But like now

765
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:10,000
Speaker 6: I'm like excited to go to school. I'm excited to

766
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:12,759
Speaker 6: be doing something that I enjoyed, And for a long

767
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:16,080
Speaker 6: time I didn't know what I enjoyed. So like finding

768
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:18,840
Speaker 6: things that I'm like genuinely good at and like genuinely

769
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:25,400
Speaker 6: enjoy doing is really like a good thing for me.

770
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:27,239
Speaker 3: M hm.

771
00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:32,680
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Well, I'm glad to hear that. It sounds

772
00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:35,760
Speaker 2: like there's been an upward trajectory for you, that life

773
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 2: is getting better.

774
00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:42,000
Speaker 6: Yeah, slowly. Okay, here's the thing. This call was like

775
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:44,279
Speaker 6: supposed to be kind of goofy, funny, but I'm like

776
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:47,440
Speaker 6: pacing around my room.

777
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:49,520
Speaker 2: Nervous, pacing around your room, nervous that you're on the phone,

778
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:55,960
Speaker 2: kind of can I ask you this, what what do

779
00:50:56,000 --> 00:51:00,480
Speaker 2: you what do you desire for the future? Even though

780
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:03,800
Speaker 2: you think it's uh, you know, you're just following and

781
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:06,440
Speaker 2: it started planned out for me, right right. Yeah, But

782
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:09,759
Speaker 2: so let's say you have free will, what would you

783
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:14,359
Speaker 2: be doing, Greg, I don't know.

784
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:16,160
Speaker 6: I just I just want to be happy. I want

785
00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:21,920
Speaker 6: to be with my friends and people I love, doing

786
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:24,640
Speaker 6: something I love, you know, waking up, going to a job,

787
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:29,839
Speaker 6: or doing whatever that I like to do. Yeah, every day,

788
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:32,640
Speaker 6: I just try to find like a happiness if that

789
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:35,080
Speaker 6: like sounds so emio. But I just try to be

790
00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:39,000
Speaker 6: happy because I feel like that. I mean, I don't

791
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:41,240
Speaker 6: really care what's going on around as long as I'm happy.

792
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:46,239
Speaker 2: I think that's very legitimate. Let me ask you this,

793
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:52,640
Speaker 2: how close is your reality to that? Right now? In

794
00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:53,480
Speaker 2: this very moment?

795
00:51:56,640 --> 00:51:57,760
Speaker 6: Uh, what do you mean exactly?

796
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:02,600
Speaker 2: You described to me being at a job that you like,

797
00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:05,000
Speaker 2: being with friends that you like. Oh, sure, you're happy

798
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:09,400
Speaker 2: right now. You described to me a version of reality. Well,

799
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:13,000
Speaker 2: how how close is your reality to what you just described?

800
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:18,880
Speaker 6: Sure? I mean, it's it's getting there. I recently moved

801
00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:23,279
Speaker 6: away from my family actually, but the school I'm going

802
00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:25,640
Speaker 6: to is close to my family, so I see my

803
00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:28,000
Speaker 6: family during the week, but then on the weekends, I'm

804
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:31,640
Speaker 6: at like my house that's you know, about an hour

805
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:34,680
Speaker 6: or so away, so I don't see my family as much.

806
00:52:34,719 --> 00:52:36,759
Speaker 6: But you know, I talk to him all the time

807
00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:38,920
Speaker 6: and call him on the phone face time and whatever.

808
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:41,680
Speaker 6: And then for job stuff. I don't really have a

809
00:52:41,719 --> 00:52:44,879
Speaker 6: job right now. I'm trying to just finish school. So

810
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:47,680
Speaker 6: that's the other thing I was I mean, I'm feeling

811
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:51,799
Speaker 6: good about since I'm finishing my degree, I'm feeling good

812
00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:54,320
Speaker 6: about jobs. Trying not to think too much about.

813
00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:59,799
Speaker 2: It though, Greg, is there any other aspect of any

814
00:52:59,840 --> 00:53:02,400
Speaker 2: of the or anything in particular that you want to

815
00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:04,319
Speaker 2: say to the people of the computer before we go?

816
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:08,280
Speaker 1: I don't.

817
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:12,439
Speaker 6: I don't think so. I love your podcast. I'm sure

818
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:15,160
Speaker 6: everybody says it. I love your podcast, love listening to it.

819
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:16,360
Speaker 2: Thanks all the time.

820
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:22,080
Speaker 6: But yeah, I think that's all I got.

821
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:24,480
Speaker 2: Well, thanks for being a part of it. Thanks for

822
00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:28,439
Speaker 2: I mean, is there are you still pacing around your room?

823
00:53:30,239 --> 00:53:31,040
Speaker 6: Yeah?

824
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:34,120
Speaker 2: You did it, but I have to.

825
00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:36,399
Speaker 6: I'm a mover. I'm a mover to think.

826
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:39,279
Speaker 2: Well, it's funny because you're being perceived right now, which

827
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:41,640
Speaker 2: seems as though it has been a fear of yours

828
00:53:42,239 --> 00:53:47,720
Speaker 2: being perceived and yet you're you're handling, At least from

829
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:55,040
Speaker 2: where I sit, You're you're being perceived you're handling it.

830
00:53:55,080 --> 00:54:02,239
Speaker 6: Well, yeah, I'm trying. I'm trying. Yeah, I know it's

831
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:07,000
Speaker 6: so cringey and cliche, but yeah, listening to your pod podcast,

832
00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:10,440
Speaker 6: it's great because it's like a just a normal gek

833
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 6: So it's not really someone with a an opinion that

834
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:17,560
Speaker 6: is based off of you know.

835
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:21,280
Speaker 3: What am I trying to say?

836
00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:26,920
Speaker 2: You're gidding? Did you watch the movie?

837
00:54:29,719 --> 00:54:29,879
Speaker 1: Oh?

838
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:32,200
Speaker 6: No, no, I avoided it.

839
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:39,120
Speaker 2: Would it would if the main character of the movie

840
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:43,360
Speaker 2: was wearing a gecko costume, not the main character, the

841
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:46,480
Speaker 2: guy who's orchestrating the thing. Would that make it better?

842
00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:50,560
Speaker 6: Uh?

843
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:51,120
Speaker 2: I don't know.

844
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:56,480
Speaker 6: Maybe I feel like it would be kind of funny,

845
00:54:56,480 --> 00:54:58,640
Speaker 6: but it'd be kind of scary.

846
00:54:59,719 --> 00:55:02,560
Speaker 2: It be kind of scary. Thank you for calling Greg.

847
00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:05,400
Speaker 6: Okay, yeah, I'll let you go. Bye.

848
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:11,399
Speaker 2: Right, Let's figure out what's going on with Michael while

849
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:17,480
Speaker 2: Hey Michael, Oh Hello, what's that man?

850
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:19,960
Speaker 1: Uh?

851
00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:20,560
Speaker 5: Is this all?

852
00:55:20,680 --> 00:55:20,920
Speaker 3: Or? No?

853
00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:22,160
Speaker 1: Oh?

854
00:55:22,239 --> 00:55:23,279
Speaker 2: Yeah? Who is this?

855
00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:25,520
Speaker 5: Oh? Michael?

856
00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:30,000
Speaker 2: Michael? It says here that it says here that you

857
00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:32,960
Speaker 2: just tried crossing a river and your foot slipped and

858
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:34,359
Speaker 2: now you're stuck on a rock?

859
00:55:36,600 --> 00:55:40,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, So, oh my gosh, it's just crazy. I

860
00:55:40,160 --> 00:55:41,200
Speaker 5: didn't think I talked to him.

861
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:44,160
Speaker 2: What do you hold on? Okay? Yeah, no, go ahead,

862
00:55:44,200 --> 00:55:45,320
Speaker 2: go ahead, I'll let you talk.

863
00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:48,439
Speaker 5: Okay, okay, I'll just I'll just go through it quick.

864
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:50,960
Speaker 5: So I'm just at like a state park sometimes I

865
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:55,440
Speaker 5: just go hiking by myself out here, and there was

866
00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:57,719
Speaker 5: a river and like on the other side, like there's

867
00:55:57,760 --> 00:56:00,360
Speaker 5: a big like dirt cliff from the river, you know,

868
00:56:00,680 --> 00:56:03,920
Speaker 5: taking the dirt away obviously, So I'm like trying to

869
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:06,160
Speaker 5: cross it because I want to go up there. And

870
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:08,480
Speaker 5: there's like a lot of rocks scattered, but not many,

871
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:11,880
Speaker 5: so I'm like hopping across them, you know, and my

872
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:15,799
Speaker 5: foot slips and it gets like soaked. So I just

873
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:22,040
Speaker 5: like take my shoes and talked off because like I mean,

874
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:24,400
Speaker 5: my foot sweat, I might as well just try it.

875
00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:29,440
Speaker 5: And then basically just after that, I uh, just up

876
00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:32,919
Speaker 5: there for a while. Yeah, And that's when I tried

877
00:56:32,960 --> 00:56:33,319
Speaker 5: calling in.

878
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:36,120
Speaker 2: So, so, are you currently stuck on a rock? What

879
00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:38,880
Speaker 2: does that mean? Like, is your foot stuck somewhere? Is

880
00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:40,279
Speaker 2: your what what do you mean by you're.

881
00:56:40,200 --> 00:56:42,960
Speaker 5: Stuck it's more like I just have nowhere to go.

882
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:46,439
Speaker 5: Like the rocks around me are like more than five

883
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:50,000
Speaker 5: feet away, and it's just like I can't they're not

884
00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:51,759
Speaker 5: They're too far to jump. So it's like I'm just

885
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:53,160
Speaker 5: gonna have to get in at some point.

886
00:56:54,600 --> 00:56:56,560
Speaker 2: Okay, so you're not like stuck, You're just gonna have

887
00:56:56,600 --> 00:56:57,120
Speaker 2: to get wet.

888
00:56:59,080 --> 00:57:01,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, basically, But it's like freezing cool because I'm in

889
00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:05,120
Speaker 5: you know, North America, northern.

890
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:06,960
Speaker 2: Okay, I thought were I thought we were in some

891
00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:09,400
Speaker 2: kind of a one hundred and twenty seven hours situation.

892
00:57:11,560 --> 00:57:16,760
Speaker 5: No, no, no, it's gonna get really cold.

893
00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:17,600
Speaker 1: Okay.

894
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:19,320
Speaker 2: I mean you've been on hold by the way for

895
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:22,480
Speaker 2: forty five minutes, so have you just how long have

896
00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:23,280
Speaker 2: you been on this rock?

897
00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:26,560
Speaker 5: For about an hour?

898
00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:30,880
Speaker 2: You have surprisingly good cell service in the middle of

899
00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:31,880
Speaker 2: the woods.

900
00:57:33,160 --> 00:57:35,919
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think at and T is just the it's

901
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:36,320
Speaker 5: just the.

902
00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:41,160
Speaker 2: It's are you Are you really on a rock right now?

903
00:57:43,120 --> 00:57:43,320
Speaker 3: Yes?

904
00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:45,680
Speaker 2: Are you serious?

905
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:50,040
Speaker 5: I'm serious? I just I don't know. I don't really

906
00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:52,240
Speaker 5: have anywhere to be. I plan my whole day around this,

907
00:57:53,720 --> 00:57:55,320
Speaker 5: so it's like I was just gonna come out here

908
00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:58,480
Speaker 5: until like nighttime, and it's just I don't really have

909
00:57:58,560 --> 00:58:00,360
Speaker 5: anywhere to go, So I just been listening into the

910
00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:01,000
Speaker 5: call music.

911
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:06,040
Speaker 2: Do you do this a lot where you just kind

912
00:58:06,040 --> 00:58:09,440
Speaker 2: of go hiking by yourself and spend the whole day outside?

913
00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:12,560
Speaker 5: Yeah?

914
00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:18,280
Speaker 2: Do you learn things about it? Much? But I'm various epiphanies.

915
00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:21,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like.

916
00:58:22,680 --> 00:58:25,600
Speaker 5: I mean, just really recently, I was just like, I

917
00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:28,000
Speaker 5: just did not think this through, Like, even if I

918
00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:30,520
Speaker 5: did get across, how was I supposed to get back?

919
00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:33,560
Speaker 5: And so I was like, well, should you always think

920
00:58:33,600 --> 00:58:35,840
Speaker 5: about should you always think like five steps ahead? Or

921
00:58:35,880 --> 00:58:38,000
Speaker 5: should you just do it? And I think you just

922
00:58:38,040 --> 00:58:40,200
Speaker 5: need to bet that balance, you know, sometimes you gotta

923
00:58:40,240 --> 00:58:42,160
Speaker 5: think ahead and sometimes you just gotta go for it.

924
00:58:43,520 --> 00:58:44,040
Speaker 3: Mm hmmm.

925
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:45,680
Speaker 2: I like that. That's a good life analogy.

926
00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:48,520
Speaker 5: I know. Yeah, I know for a fact, once I

927
00:58:48,560 --> 00:58:50,360
Speaker 5: get up to that, once I get across and I

928
00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:53,360
Speaker 5: go up there, it's just gonna I'm gonna have no regrets,

929
00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:59,160
Speaker 5: you know, seeing to the prairie on the other side.

930
00:59:00,720 --> 00:59:02,760
Speaker 2: What are you looking at right now? Can you describe

931
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:03,480
Speaker 2: the scene.

932
00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:06,600
Speaker 5: Just up and down the river?

933
00:59:07,840 --> 00:59:08,000
Speaker 2: Uh?

934
00:59:09,760 --> 00:59:12,040
Speaker 5: A lot, there's I mean, there's a lot of rocks

935
00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:16,000
Speaker 5: across it, but just really far as like distance as

936
00:59:16,040 --> 00:59:20,080
Speaker 5: far actually just like this. The part that I was

937
00:59:20,800 --> 00:59:24,280
Speaker 5: on to get to this rock, there was a lot

938
00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:27,440
Speaker 5: of little rocks get kind of like start where the

939
00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:32,320
Speaker 5: river was just barely below the the river bed, you

940
00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:35,120
Speaker 5: know what I mean, kind of there's a little bit

941
00:59:35,120 --> 00:59:39,120
Speaker 5: of land and there's a lot of birds on it

942
00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:42,000
Speaker 5: right now, a lot of robins. Pretty cool. I've just

943
00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:43,520
Speaker 5: been watching them.

944
00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:45,960
Speaker 2: What do you hope to do with your life? Michael?

945
00:59:49,120 --> 00:59:53,120
Speaker 5: Basically this, I mean, I'm in college right now, because

946
00:59:53,160 --> 00:59:56,760
Speaker 5: I mean it's still like you still live in a society.

947
00:59:56,800 --> 00:59:59,480
Speaker 5: You need money and stuff, so you need like a degree.

948
01:00:00,200 --> 01:00:02,200
Speaker 5: But I mean, this is really what I live for

949
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:07,720
Speaker 5: is just not thinking at all. I've mostly just been

950
01:00:07,720 --> 01:00:08,919
Speaker 5: writing a lot of stuff down.

951
01:00:10,440 --> 01:00:13,120
Speaker 2: Have you been Have you been writing down, like like

952
01:00:13,200 --> 01:00:14,960
Speaker 2: your thoughts and feelings?

953
01:00:16,040 --> 01:00:17,120
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, yeah?

954
01:00:17,200 --> 01:00:19,240
Speaker 2: What can I hear the most recently wrote down?

955
01:00:21,760 --> 01:00:24,200
Speaker 5: Okay, so m hm.

956
01:00:26,280 --> 01:00:26,720
Speaker 3: M hmm.

957
01:00:27,120 --> 01:00:31,000
Speaker 5: I'm getting looking at my notebook. Usually just go to spots.

958
01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:32,800
Speaker 5: I'm trying to become a better writer, so I just

959
01:00:32,880 --> 01:00:39,720
Speaker 5: try and describe places as best as I can. Mm hmmm,

960
01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:47,760
Speaker 5: Oh hold on, alright, just I can't.

961
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:55,720
Speaker 2: Mm hmm is your is your notebook? Wet?

962
01:00:58,560 --> 01:00:58,760
Speaker 1: No?

963
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:02,240
Speaker 5: I did keep my back pack off the ground thankfully.

964
01:01:01,920 --> 01:01:04,120
Speaker 3: Okay, I'm fine.

965
01:01:05,120 --> 01:01:06,120
Speaker 2: Do you get it? You find it?

966
01:01:09,320 --> 01:01:16,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, A lot of the recent stuff is about school.

967
01:01:17,200 --> 01:01:18,960
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, what what what about school?

968
01:01:21,960 --> 01:01:24,720
Speaker 5: Just like an English class. I've just been talking to

969
01:01:24,720 --> 01:01:27,240
Speaker 5: a professor. So I was just trying, like, I mean,

970
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:29,000
Speaker 5: just like stuff I gotta do, and like what I'm

971
01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:32,960
Speaker 5: gonna do for homework. Basically, you said you.

972
01:01:32,880 --> 01:01:35,160
Speaker 2: Sound like you got a chill life going on, Michael.

973
01:01:36,760 --> 01:01:39,160
Speaker 5: I mean compared to like everyone else that calls in.

974
01:01:39,240 --> 01:01:41,480
Speaker 5: I mean, I've listened to like your stuff for a

975
01:01:41,520 --> 01:01:45,280
Speaker 5: year now. I'm yeah, I probably have the most stable

976
01:01:45,320 --> 01:01:46,280
Speaker 5: life out of everyone.

977
01:01:47,160 --> 01:01:47,200
Speaker 3: You.

978
01:01:47,680 --> 01:01:50,640
Speaker 2: You're throwing your hat in the ring as the most

979
01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:54,200
Speaker 2: stable person that has ever called in your you are

980
01:01:54,280 --> 01:01:56,360
Speaker 2: in the on a rock right now, in the middle

981
01:01:56,360 --> 01:01:58,680
Speaker 2: of the woods.

982
01:01:58,920 --> 01:02:02,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, but mentally, I'm the most stable person that's ever

983
01:02:02,840 --> 01:02:09,080
Speaker 5: called in here. What makes you say that, Well, just

984
01:02:09,120 --> 01:02:12,080
Speaker 5: because like everyone in here, everyone that calls in usually

985
01:02:12,160 --> 01:02:14,800
Speaker 5: has a bunch of life problems stuff. I really don't

986
01:02:14,800 --> 01:02:17,760
Speaker 5: have any problems other than right now. But I wouldn't

987
01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:19,560
Speaker 5: see this as a problem. I'd see it as more

988
01:02:19,560 --> 01:02:20,440
Speaker 5: of an opportunity.

989
01:02:22,440 --> 01:02:24,400
Speaker 2: So you're saying that the advice that you would give

990
01:02:24,440 --> 01:02:27,360
Speaker 2: to every single person who's called into the show is

991
01:02:27,480 --> 01:02:29,880
Speaker 2: to go find a rock to lay on in the

992
01:02:29,880 --> 01:02:32,880
Speaker 2: middle of the woods.

993
01:02:33,200 --> 01:02:37,080
Speaker 5: I'm not the best advocate. I've never had any mental

994
01:02:37,680 --> 01:02:40,240
Speaker 5: health issues, so it's like I don't really have sympathy

995
01:02:40,280 --> 01:02:42,960
Speaker 5: for people with I can't really feel a sympathy for

996
01:02:43,080 --> 01:02:47,960
Speaker 5: people with that. Yeah, it's a bit of an issue, but.

997
01:02:50,200 --> 01:02:53,240
Speaker 2: Well, it's not necessarily about mental health issues. It's just

998
01:02:53,280 --> 01:02:58,840
Speaker 2: about life, walking around and looking at stuff and thinking things.

999
01:03:00,400 --> 01:03:02,440
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I just try to not think as

1000
01:03:02,520 --> 01:03:03,400
Speaker 5: much as possible.

1001
01:03:06,240 --> 01:03:08,600
Speaker 2: Well, Michael, I feel like we can all learn a

1002
01:03:08,640 --> 01:03:13,120
Speaker 2: lot from you. Thank you. Is there anything else you

1003
01:03:13,160 --> 01:03:14,600
Speaker 2: want to say to the people of the computer before

1004
01:03:14,640 --> 01:03:14,800
Speaker 2: we go?

1005
01:03:17,960 --> 01:03:20,040
Speaker 5: Well I did. I didn't want to say, like, you're

1006
01:03:20,320 --> 01:03:22,680
Speaker 5: like jingle for the end of the Spotify is like

1007
01:03:22,840 --> 01:03:26,280
Speaker 5: so good, it's so catchy. Oh thank you you like

1008
01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:28,240
Speaker 5: did you make that?

1009
01:03:28,240 --> 01:03:33,960
Speaker 2: That was made by crmony? Okay, anything you want to

1010
01:03:33,960 --> 01:03:35,160
Speaker 2: say about have you ever thought of.

1011
01:03:35,160 --> 01:03:41,480
Speaker 5: Like having like oh, I'm just gonna probably take a

1012
01:03:41,560 --> 01:03:46,320
Speaker 5: nap out here later, so right to shut down?

1013
01:03:46,360 --> 01:03:51,760
Speaker 2: So no, no, Well, thank you very much for calling

1014
01:03:51,760 --> 01:03:54,480
Speaker 2: and sharing with us your secrets to a good life, Michael.

1015
01:03:56,160 --> 01:03:57,680
Speaker 5: No problem, I'll have to the share.

1016
01:03:58,480 --> 01:03:59,160
Speaker 2: Take care brother.

1017
01:04:00,480 --> 01:04:01,680
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1018
01:04:01,080 --> 01:04:04,000
Speaker 2: But you know, maybe he is the most mentally stable

1019
01:04:04,040 --> 01:04:07,640
Speaker 2: person that's ever called in. Maybe he's right, although I

1020
01:04:07,640 --> 01:04:10,280
Speaker 2: feel like the most mentally stable person that's ever called

1021
01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:14,200
Speaker 2: in wouldn't declare themselves to be that, So it's a

1022
01:04:14,200 --> 01:04:18,120
Speaker 2: bit of a catch. Twenty two. I'm gonna go find

1023
01:04:18,120 --> 01:04:18,960
Speaker 2: a rock to lay on.

1024
01:04:19,760 --> 01:04:23,240
Speaker 3: The cat goes on the line, taking your phone calls

1025
01:04:23,320 --> 01:04:23,880
Speaker 3: every night.

1026
01:04:24,240 --> 01:04:27,360
Speaker 2: There Bek goes to his eye. He's teaching you aloud

1027
01:04:27,400 --> 01:04:29,960
Speaker 2: in the mid of your life, but he's not really

1028
01:04:30,200 --> 01:04:30,960
Speaker 2: an expert.