Speaker 1: Check it down man, Now down man. It's the Beating
Speaker 1: the Book Podcast, Bill Alexander, another edition of the pod
Speaker 1: for your enjoyment during this strange time in all of
Speaker 1: our lives, global pandemic. Surreal, man, just completely surreal. But
Speaker 1: a credit to all of the guests who are kind
Speaker 1: enough to come on the show and spend their time
Speaker 1: talking to me, uh, super generous of them, lending all
Speaker 1: of their insights and really giving their history as to
Speaker 1: how they became the guys that they became, and really
Speaker 1: the betters that they became. Each story in its own
Speaker 1: right fascinating, none more so than that of this gentleman
Speaker 1: right here. I've known him for quite some time now,
Speaker 1: one of the most successful sports betters I know, if
Speaker 1: not the most successful. Rufus Peabody. Great story, interesting story. Uh,
Speaker 1: he unplays it. He's modest about it. Uh. But I
Speaker 1: think you'll find it as fascinating as I do, and
Speaker 1: hopefully it inspires someone out there. Rufus Peabody on today's
Speaker 1: Beating the Book Podcast, Enjoy it's a numbers game with
Speaker 1: your host, Kill Alexander. You want comunits to believe in analytics, Zenner,
Speaker 1: it is your home for analytics for sports metting analytics
Speaker 1: live actual sports betting information. It's Gil Alexander Terrus except
Speaker 1: Channel two oh four, Visa dot Com, the Visa app
Speaker 1: Foobos laying Game Plus on down the line. Thank you
Speaker 1: for tuning in on this Wednesday. Later on the show,
Speaker 1: coming up, some more college football season win totals, y'all. Yesterday,
Speaker 1: Chris Felika, the bear for ESPN, was on here to
Speaker 1: give his thoughts on those that were released by Caesar's.
Speaker 1: Also some conference futures. Today, Pete Feutach from College Football
Speaker 1: News will take his dab at what we hope are
Speaker 1: meaningful prop bets for the coming college football season props
Speaker 1: in terms of the futures on conferences, but also season
Speaker 1: win totals. So people will be here our number two
Speaker 1: before that, very pumped to have my next guest hang
Speaker 1: out with us as I channel my inner my inner
Speaker 1: Bob costas U Roy Firestone here during this global pandemic. Uh.
Speaker 1: He is a how can I put this? He will
Speaker 1: He will be modest after I say this, but he's
Speaker 1: certainly one of the two most successful sports bettors that
Speaker 1: I know. He'll immediately say, well, then I don't know
Speaker 1: enough sports bettors. Uh. You may know him, perhaps as
Speaker 1: the co host of the Bet the Process podcast that
Speaker 1: he does with his buddy Jeff ma Uh, it's my
Speaker 1: old friend Rufus Peatbody. Good morning to you, Rufus. How
Speaker 1: you do it? Man Um, I'm doing wal Gil, Good
Speaker 1: morning to you. How are you how San Francisco. Oh,
Speaker 1: it's good man Ash. You mentioned him live from San Francisco.
Speaker 1: You've been here, You've been h the spot here in
Speaker 1: San Francisco. It's I'm well man. San Francisco got this
Speaker 1: right early. They shut down before any other city did,
Speaker 1: and of course got some flak four it. But in
Speaker 1: the end, I think they they have proven to be
Speaker 1: ahead of things, and the stats bear that out. So far,
Speaker 1: we have not picked yet. You're in Boston, right, I
Speaker 1: am in Boston, where it's you know, I don't think
Speaker 1: they're a head of things here. I went to the
Speaker 1: grocery story this past weekend, and maybe ten to fifteen
Speaker 1: percent of people have masks. But I went for a
Speaker 1: walk yesterday and it was close to like people with masks,
Speaker 1: despite the fact that a lot of people were jogging
Speaker 1: or running a rollerblading. So I think it's getting better.
Speaker 1: But I don't think a lot of people are taking
Speaker 1: that that seriously. In terms of the mask recommendation, well,
Speaker 1: I'm guessing you asked me this yesterday. How many with
Speaker 1: the percentage of folks here anecdotally that I think are
Speaker 1: wearing masks, it's I don't know if it's fifty I
Speaker 1: said percent yesterday. It's probably like thirty or to But
Speaker 1: you just mentioned something that to me is kind of
Speaker 1: it induces complacency. When the weather is not good, it
Speaker 1: is very easy to self quarantine. But when it gets
Speaker 1: sunny outside, dude, they're all over Chrissy Field running here,
Speaker 1: people are exercising. And I got the sense yesterday because
Speaker 1: I've I've been one of these people who who have
Speaker 1: always you know, looked askance and people who have denied
Speaker 1: this from the beginning that this is happening and as
Speaker 1: serious as it is. But yesterday, it's sort of it
Speaker 1: messes with your brain when it's sunny outside and you're like, huh,
Speaker 1: it just doesn't feel virusy out here, right. Our brains
Speaker 1: played tricks on us like that. So I kind of
Speaker 1: get the complacency thing. I'm a little worried about that.
Speaker 1: For a second. Spot, No I agree. I wanted to
Speaker 1: get a sandwich at my favorite sandwich shop, which is
Speaker 1: actually still open somehow, because it's like a deli. It's
Speaker 1: I guess essential you can get. It's all take out anyway.
Speaker 1: So I was walking back. It was this beautiful spring
Speaker 1: day and I almost sat down and ate it outside,
Speaker 1: and I was like, wait, what am I doing. I'm
Speaker 1: not supposed to sit down at a park bench. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's right. It's Gill Alexander Rufus Peabody, our guest today
Speaker 1: here on a numbers game at Vista, these sports betting network. Um,
Speaker 1: so listen, we buried the headline for those who didn't
Speaker 1: hear you on the show. A couple of weeks ago,
Speaker 1: you actually tested positive for COVID nights seeing the growth
Speaker 1: virus um. You said at the time that you had
Speaker 1: a very mild form of it. You were feeling okay.
Speaker 1: Are you clear? You and your fiance, I should say,
Speaker 1: you both sort of clear of any symptoms at this point. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I've been clear. It feels like it was a month
Speaker 1: ago that I had the symptoms, So it's been a
Speaker 1: long time. We've both been clear symptoms for a while.
Speaker 1: She has to she she works in the medical profession.
Speaker 1: She's a doctor, so she has to test positive or
Speaker 1: test negative twice before she can go back to work. So, um,
Speaker 1: she's I think you can go get tested today. Uh,
Speaker 1: they're not retesting me. I've been cleared to resume being
Speaker 1: I guess, resume going to the grocery store. That's basically
Speaker 1: what's good saying doing these days. I was clear to
Speaker 1: do that, I guess two weeks ago. So they I'm
Speaker 1: presumed to be negative at this point. Well, we're all
Speaker 1: glad to hear that. Um, Seriously, when I was a
Speaker 1: worried about you there, even though I know you said
Speaker 1: it was mild, but once you hear someone positive, you always,
Speaker 1: uh worry for obvious reasons. Uh kill you avoided You
Speaker 1: avoided slow this year, which proved to be a pretty
Speaker 1: good decision, probably given the fact that I just gave
Speaker 1: it to everybody there. Yeah, and you would have given
Speaker 1: it to me, I'm sure as well. No, for sure,
Speaker 1: I hope everybody else. I know you mentioned Spanky a
Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago, who's a better that we all know.
Speaker 1: I hope he's doing better. I had asked him to
Speaker 1: come on the show, and he really wasn't feeling up
Speaker 1: to it at the time. He said he wanted to
Speaker 1: come on when he felt a lot better. Uh, he was,
Speaker 1: he was geek to do so, but he just wasn't
Speaker 1: feeling well. So I think he's I think he's doing better.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've talked to him at all.
Speaker 1: You know, I've talked to him a little bit, and
Speaker 1: I think he is doing better. So good, that's good. Okay,
Speaker 1: that's good. All right. UM. So, obviously the reason you're
Speaker 1: here is, and maybe it's not so obvious, is that
Speaker 1: I like to You know, Alan Boston came on the
Speaker 1: show a few weeks back. I was able to talk
Speaker 1: to him for two hours, talked to Bob Stole at length.
Speaker 1: Dr Bob about his handicapping process, how he became the
Speaker 1: better that he became. Bill Krackenburger did that in a
Speaker 1: couple of subsequent weeks when he was on his regular
Speaker 1: portion of this show. You are one of the more
Speaker 1: fascinating cases. And I know you probably don't feel that
Speaker 1: about yourself, um, but I have. I have always felt
Speaker 1: that way about you, and I think most do. Because
Speaker 1: you are not typical. You do realize that right like
Speaker 1: your brain is not the average brain. Gil is there an?
Speaker 1: Is there a typical sports better? I don't think that. Well.
Speaker 1: I think the whole point is everybody is kind of quirky,
Speaker 1: in nuanced in ways and things differently, and that's why,
Speaker 1: that's why it's a beautiful, beautiful thing. Yes, that's a
Speaker 1: that's a very clever way of trying to, uh put
Speaker 1: a false equivalency into what you into your brain versus others.
Speaker 1: But I understand what you're saying. Certainly, it's a it's
Speaker 1: an interesting cross section of humanity. I get it. But
Speaker 1: what I'm getting out with you is your your background
Speaker 1: is not typical. Let's let's go back, way back. We'll
Speaker 1: get to the part that's not typical. I guess it
Speaker 1: started ultimpically. You grew up I know this much about you,
Speaker 1: Like myself, you were of that generation, or I should
Speaker 1: say those two three decades growing up in the DC
Speaker 1: area where you were a redskin. You were a Redskin
Speaker 1: fan and an Orioles fan because we were too young
Speaker 1: for the Senators um and too old for the Nationals
Speaker 1: kind of thing. So I know you grew up a
Speaker 1: sports fan like that. What did your parents do? What
Speaker 1: do they do, by the way. So my my parents
Speaker 1: met at architecture school. Actually, my dad is an architect.
Speaker 1: He runs a small residential design firm, which now he
Speaker 1: does out of the basement of our childhood my childhood house. UM.
Speaker 1: And my mother Actually my mom worked at a boarding school, UM,
Speaker 1: doing administrative stuff that was in Alexander, Virginia I grew up,
Speaker 1: but she was home most of the time. She started
Speaker 1: working there after I went to college, so she was
Speaker 1: she was very active parent and drove me to sporting
Speaker 1: events and all those types of things, and was Actually
Speaker 1: I was born to Mrs Surprisingly Surprisingly I don't have
Speaker 1: an accent, right, Um, Natchez, Mississippi, and I lived there
Speaker 1: for five years before before my family moved to the
Speaker 1: DC area. So and and two siblings, one sister, one
Speaker 1: brother if I'm correct, Okay, and but we're all very different,
Speaker 1: but they're they're both like really really awesome and really talented.
Speaker 1: I've met your brother, and I know your sister is
Speaker 1: very talented, so I would I would concur with both
Speaker 1: of that, Um, both of those comments. But you are
Speaker 1: in your own right obviously very talented as well. And
Speaker 1: I'm not blowing smoke here because folks you know who
Speaker 1: lends it to this show are probably familiar with you
Speaker 1: by this point again that the podcast that Rufus co
Speaker 1: host is called bet the Process wherever podcast aren't distributed. Um,
Speaker 1: so here's the thing about you. You're super smart. Let
Speaker 1: me just tell you what Roxy. Do you know what
Speaker 1: Roxy says about you? Roxy Roxburrow, who's the legendary founder
Speaker 1: of Las Vegas Sports Consultants, who I was just to
Speaker 1: damming with last night from from Thailand. And he didn't
Speaker 1: say this last night, but I know that he says
Speaker 1: this of you. Do you do you have any guesses
Speaker 1: as to what he says about you? What is? What
Speaker 1: is stock line is? I don't know, he says. He says,
Speaker 1: I always learned something from Rufus. I never forgot the
Speaker 1: same way about Roxy. Yeah, I think we all do
Speaker 1: about Roxy. Um, but when did you know? I guess
Speaker 1: when you're a kid and you're a sports fan, like
Speaker 1: like all of us were sports fans when we were kids.
Speaker 1: That is very typical. But when when did you know
Speaker 1: that you were sort of thinking on a level that
Speaker 1: other kids might not have been. Did that start young
Speaker 1: for you or was that something that happened only when
Speaker 1: you got to college age. Um, you know, I think
Speaker 1: it happened. I mean, I don't think I'm thinking on
Speaker 1: a level that's different from other people. I think that
Speaker 1: there's a lot of people thinking, well, no, I mean
Speaker 1: to me, I think that if I tried to do
Speaker 1: what I do and and sort of typical finance markets,
Speaker 1: I would not be nearly as successful because part of
Speaker 1: it is the fact that I just love sports and
Speaker 1: and have always loved the number of side of sports,
Speaker 1: and it just gives me ideas. I always I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: I wonder if this has an effect. It just basically
Speaker 1: think theories to test, which I remember, like charting people
Speaker 1: this this is not to things the typical kid does,
Speaker 1: but I remember watching Orioles games and charting pitches for
Speaker 1: this is back in like the nineties, charting pitches for
Speaker 1: um reading baseball prospectives cover to cover, back when it
Speaker 1: was called UM yeah, yeah, I remember when Richard Hidalgo,
Speaker 1: When Richard Hidalgo, remember that guy was on the side. Yes,
Speaker 1: I do know PD guy, but I reference in my
Speaker 1: spare time, I like worked on a project basically trying
Speaker 1: to prove that walk rate was way undervalued and important Um,
Speaker 1: I guess this is before a little bit before moneyball,
Speaker 1: I guess, but I'm around that this time when you're
Speaker 1: trying to figure this out. Um, this was let's see, actually, no,
Speaker 1: this was early two thousands. I was probably this is
Speaker 1: the end of high school, beginning of college. Probably they're there,
Speaker 1: but the Richard at nine years old? Yeah, no, but
Speaker 1: but I was, so we would so when I, I
Speaker 1: guess in kindergarten and first grade, I went to this
Speaker 1: private school and my parents we had a car. We'd
Speaker 1: have a car pool to work, and my dad would stop,
Speaker 1: um and pick up a newspaper from the newsstand every
Speaker 1: day and I would look at the sports section, read
Speaker 1: the baseball box scores, and so that was that was
Speaker 1: like my daily routine. And I love and I like.
Speaker 1: My mom was like, I don't know how you understood
Speaker 1: what those numbers meant, but you somehow like found meeting
Speaker 1: in them. So I think I've always been into the
Speaker 1: number side of sports, and so that's kind of driven
Speaker 1: driven me to to where I am now. But that
Speaker 1: that's very interesting what you said though, that if you
Speaker 1: were in financial markets, you wouldn't be nearly successful. So
Speaker 1: what you know, what follows obviously then is I guess
Speaker 1: what you're saying, And I think it's true sports, that
Speaker 1: the coverage of sports in this country in many ways
Speaker 1: is so primitive and and even to this day, is primitive,
Speaker 1: right in terms of what we focus on. Right, it's
Speaker 1: the notion of third down conversion, where just throwing out
Speaker 1: one off the top of my head, the notion that
Speaker 1: that is some catch all stat that is meaningful without
Speaker 1: giving an indication it is a third and two is
Speaker 1: a third and eleven, right, just like one quick example.
Speaker 1: It's just a very simplified thing that's out there in
Speaker 1: the mainstream media. And I guess what you're saying is
Speaker 1: that's what allows you to be successful. So much of
Speaker 1: that is that it is just so basic across the board. Well,
Speaker 1: that and the fact that I feel like I have
Speaker 1: intuitions for sports that I just don't have for general
Speaker 1: business stuff because that's sports has been what I've been
Speaker 1: exposed to and and what I think about. Whereas and now,
Speaker 1: like you know, obviously, I'm spending a little more time
Speaker 1: in finance related stuff now and I talked to other
Speaker 1: people that are that I think are way smarter than me,
Speaker 1: who have these intuitions, and man, these guys so smart, like, oh,
Speaker 1: that makes so much sense. But but I can't, Like,
Speaker 1: I don't think that myself. Are you betting anything with
Speaker 1: the stock market on a daily basis during the pandemic?
Speaker 1: It is betting. I'm not doing any day trading exactly.
Speaker 1: But I'm an investor in the stock market. I have
Speaker 1: for a while. Um the amount I invest in ebbed
Speaker 1: and float, I guess so I have made the occasional
Speaker 1: mistake of trying to time it a little bit, and
Speaker 1: I did. I did sell a lot of stocks back
Speaker 1: in late February when I thought this is gonna be
Speaker 1: a lot worse than everybody thought. And so I'm trying
Speaker 1: to figure out and I put a little bit of
Speaker 1: money back in a few weeks ago when when the
Speaker 1: Dow was under twenty. But but now I'm like, I
Speaker 1: should have sold more and bought more. So there's still
Speaker 1: there's that. But I'm trying to figure out what to position.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm mostly a buy and hold guy, passive investor,
Speaker 1: you know van Guard index funds, they have lowest fees,
Speaker 1: tracked the market, but occasionally I will do some gambling occasionally,
Speaker 1: and I've done yeah, I've done some. I've done some
Speaker 1: gambling during during this. I mean, you got where else
Speaker 1: is the gambling? I don't know yet. By the way, um,
Speaker 1: I think I mentioned to this this to you a
Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago when you were on But I
Speaker 1: got an update Bookmaker now on an individual uh Maddens
Speaker 1: simulation about a hundred thousand dollars in handle. So I
Speaker 1: think it's a fascinating stat because, on the one hand,
Speaker 1: the reaction of many will be oh my god, degenerates,
Speaker 1: it's ridiculous, and there's a little part of my reaction
Speaker 1: that's that as well. But then you do have the
Speaker 1: thought right afterwards, is that any less predictable than the
Speaker 1: actual NFL is free flapping? I haven't watched it, so
Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe their patterns, Maybe there's there's ways
Speaker 1: for betters to get edge edges. I don't I haven't
Speaker 1: had enough interest yet to sit down and find out.
Speaker 1: But I find that fascinating that just from an evolutionary standpoint,
Speaker 1: if you ever doubted that betting was in our DNA,
Speaker 1: or if betting was at its worst an addiction, there
Speaker 1: is or there is your proof right there, or maybe
Speaker 1: there actually is an angle to it. Well, to me,
Speaker 1: it just it just says how big their handle must
Speaker 1: be regularly. You know how they're doing this to keep
Speaker 1: keep the lights on, I guess, but you know you
Speaker 1: don't see numbers like you do for New Jersey, Nevada,
Speaker 1: for the off shore world. So you you're a we're
Speaker 1: talking to Rufus Peabody, by the way, um on the
Speaker 1: show today, and um, you got to high school. I
Speaker 1: I assume you were a successful student because the shows
Speaker 1: are not the shows, but the universities that you can
Speaker 1: apply to. We're probably the entire set of universities you
Speaker 1: end up at Yale. Um tell everybody what your thesis
Speaker 1: ended up being there. Well, Gil, before we get to that,
Speaker 1: my high school experience was. I mean, I I was
Speaker 1: lucky that my parents pushed me academically because I was
Speaker 1: someone that, like my sister, would do extra credit in
Speaker 1: a class that she already had a hundred in And
Speaker 1: I wasn't that person. I was someone that I did
Speaker 1: the bare minimum um to get the grade I needed
Speaker 1: to get. And so I knew that to me, like
Speaker 1: getting into a good college was like sort of the
Speaker 1: what I was supposed to do, and the challenge, and
Speaker 1: I knew that I had to get end up with
Speaker 1: a's at the end of the year and all the
Speaker 1: courses in my transcript. But but you didn't have to
Speaker 1: get in a every quarter to do that. In fact,
Speaker 1: the way it worked, if you got an A went
Speaker 1: into the systems of four point oh and a V
Speaker 1: plus went in is at three point five. And so
Speaker 1: if you got um in grades were determined by we
Speaker 1: had four quarters in the final exam, so one fifth
Speaker 1: for each of those five segments, and so one A
Speaker 1: and four B plus is averaged out to an A.
Speaker 1: And so I would look if if that's what I had,
Speaker 1: I would look just as good as the guy that
Speaker 1: got a hundred on every test and was the star
Speaker 1: of the class. So basically I was I was the
Speaker 1: guy that flew under the radar here, and and I
Speaker 1: was like, I worked as hard as I needed to
Speaker 1: to sort of get the low A. That was what
Speaker 1: my goal was. And I didn't sort of say it
Speaker 1: that way, but like I definitely I didn't put in Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I did my German homework for second period,
Speaker 1: for I did my German homework in calculus class and
Speaker 1: as well as working on running a bracket contest from
Speaker 1: the back of the class in the funny story. Actually
Speaker 1: the calculus teacher, Mr Nickley until I remember when I
Speaker 1: asked him for a letter of recommendation when I was
Speaker 1: applying to college. He said, I assume you don't want
Speaker 1: me to talk about the fact you're running bracket You're
Speaker 1: running bracket contests from the back of the class. I
Speaker 1: was like, you were that kid. You were that kid
Speaker 1: as well? What's what school? Was this? Rufus? Just so
Speaker 1: just like I'm familiar TC Williams High School TC Williams.
Speaker 1: Wasn't TC Williams featured in the Denzel Washington movie as well?
Speaker 1: Was that TC Williams? It was Remember the Titans. Remember
Speaker 1: the Titans are claim to fame. Although our so our
Speaker 1: football team when I was there was not nearly successful.
Speaker 1: I think we won maybe four games in four years,
Speaker 1: and I still remember we were losing I think to
Speaker 1: nothing it senior year at homecoming at halftime, um, oh man,
Speaker 1: not good. I wasn't there, though I was. I was
Speaker 1: a runner. I ran across country and so I didn't
Speaker 1: I didn't have to go to any of the games. Luckily, Oh,
Speaker 1: I could see you running cross country you have that
Speaker 1: cross country bill? What was the uh so TC Williams
Speaker 1: had that grading system? I had no idea. I think
Speaker 1: I still do they still have that system? I'm sure.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know. It's been many years. But
Speaker 1: but the way the way it works, right because because
Speaker 1: a's are on a range. But when I found this out,
Speaker 1: I mean it was it was a game changer. But
Speaker 1: three be goes in as a three point oh though,
Speaker 1: so if you have one B, it's like it's it's
Speaker 1: a little harder. See, I needed I needed to make
Speaker 1: sure I got at least b pluses. See this changes everything.
Speaker 1: Where was perhaps you weren't as smart as I gave
Speaker 1: you credit for her exactly. See, I was that I
Speaker 1: was not the superstars to in the class, and I
Speaker 1: managed to be like, you know, well rounded. That was
Speaker 1: the thing everybody was, you know, you know, that was
Speaker 1: what I everydu was talking about to get into good
Speaker 1: college and to be well round, to do all these extracurriculars.
Speaker 1: I just kept busy in general. Like I I refereed.
Speaker 1: I refereed youth soccer games as a weekend job. I
Speaker 1: umpired youth baseball. I was, I was in the band,
Speaker 1: I you know, like I did all these things just
Speaker 1: because you know, I kept myself busy and I enjoyed
Speaker 1: all the sports stuff. I played every you know, I've
Speaker 1: played sports every season as well as I did UM
Speaker 1: stats for the basketball team my senior year. I ran
Speaker 1: their statistics UM department. I guess I don't even know
Speaker 1: what you call it. So so somehow my senior year
Speaker 1: I ended up as well as running into a track,
Speaker 1: and I ended up with four senior letters and four
Speaker 1: varsity letters in three seasons. So so I graduated with
Speaker 1: thirteen varsity letters in twelve seasons as a result of that. So,
Speaker 1: I mean, I but but it wasn't like with the
Speaker 1: intention of, yeah, building up my resume. It was because, like,
Speaker 1: this is the stuff that I wanted to do. Um
Speaker 1: rufus Peabody. But one of the most successful bettters I know,
Speaker 1: if not the most successful, mild mannered, average childhood. I
Speaker 1: guess that's very relatable. Uh, we'll get to what his
Speaker 1: college thesis was. That's where the betting really goes in
Speaker 1: full bore. Rufus Peabody Today on a numbers game at
Speaker 1: Visa these sports betting network welcome back to a numbers
Speaker 1: game with you. Alexander Rufus Peabody my guest today on
Speaker 1: the Numbers game at Visa. The Sports Betting Network will
Speaker 1: do some college football season win totals in conference futures
Speaker 1: later with Pete few Tech from College Football News. Rufus,
Speaker 1: you were telling me off air, first of all thirteen
Speaker 1: varsity letters in twelve seasons, cross country, indoor track, tennis.
Speaker 1: Are you good at tennis? Not anymore? I wasn't great.
Speaker 1: I was a hustler. I was, I think in my
Speaker 1: best like number four on our on our on our team,
Speaker 1: hustled in tennis, hustled the grading system. And what was
Speaker 1: that you just told me off air. In addition, you
Speaker 1: were sort of like the reporter of sorts for sports. Oh.
Speaker 1: I volunteered, I you know, I covered local college basketball
Speaker 1: games for the local connection newspapers, so to the commuter
Speaker 1: newspapers out there, so um, the Alexandria Gazette Packett, there
Speaker 1: are other ones. And so I would go see like
Speaker 1: a Mount Vernon versus Hayfield basketball game and write an
Speaker 1: article for and for free. And I think the sports
Speaker 1: editor of this guy, Rich Sanders, I still remember his name,
Speaker 1: must have loved me. And so but it was good
Speaker 1: because at the time I thought I wanted to be
Speaker 1: I thought I wanted to be a sports journalist. That's
Speaker 1: what I thought I wanted to do. And but I
Speaker 1: realized I wrote these articles. Looking back at some of
Speaker 1: the articles I wrote, I see that what I was
Speaker 1: kind of doing was sort of I wasn't covering just
Speaker 1: the what happened, but kind of the why it happened.
Speaker 1: I was like, this team is like they're planned to
Speaker 1: penetrate and kick out generated open shots, and that's why
Speaker 1: this happened. So creating narratives, but but also really kind
Speaker 1: of getting into the analysis part of it. You know.
Speaker 1: I had Chris Feliko in the bear from ESPN's College
Speaker 1: Game Day, Yes Your Day, and I tried to do
Speaker 1: the same thing with him and and and it was
Speaker 1: a fascinating story how he got to ESPN. And I
Speaker 1: just think there's so much to inspire young people with
Speaker 1: with these stories, because someone inevitably, and probably multiple people
Speaker 1: in all of these cases, will hear you, will hear Chris,
Speaker 1: and will just be like, Yes, this is exactly who
Speaker 1: I am. I should embrace this. Maybe I was. Maybe
Speaker 1: I'm not the coolest kid in the room. But if
Speaker 1: this guy became the greatest No, no, serious, And I
Speaker 1: don't say that disparagingly because I relate to all of
Speaker 1: this stuff in different ways, right, but we're kind of
Speaker 1: the same type. The other thing you mentioned that is
Speaker 1: so common to do those of us who bet sports
Speaker 1: and bet sports seriously and in your case professionally, is
Speaker 1: you ran you I don't want to gloss over this detail.
Speaker 1: You were running an n C double a bracket from
Speaker 1: the back of the class. Is that what you were doing? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I was. Yeah, what was the format? Do you remember?
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. I think we gave bonus points to
Speaker 1: under two picking underdogs, but you know, I think it
Speaker 1: was like five bucks or something, and people gave me
Speaker 1: the brackets. And this is before, this is before everybody
Speaker 1: had laptops and everything like that, So I would I
Speaker 1: would have to go through manually and check, you know,
Speaker 1: which which picks one and which picks lost. And here
Speaker 1: here's what I always find interesting about that stuff. So
Speaker 1: in five this will date me. I was a huge
Speaker 1: Georgetown fan. That was the year that Georgetown was unbeatable, right,
Speaker 1: like they were the behemoth. I didn't even know anything
Speaker 1: about betting, odds at the time, but somehow instinctively I knew.
Speaker 1: I went around all my classmates and I'm like, I
Speaker 1: got Georgetown, you got the other sixty three teams or
Speaker 1: forty seven, whatever was at the time. I think it
Speaker 1: was the first year, if I'm not mistaken of sixty
Speaker 1: four might have been the next year. I can't remember.
Speaker 1: I think it was the first year, but I said,
Speaker 1: I got Georgetown, you got the other sixty three teams,
Speaker 1: but you have to give me five like you have
Speaker 1: to give me five times the profit. If I went like,
Speaker 1: I just didn't. I just knew it somehow in eately
Speaker 1: and you just mentioned that you rewarded upsets. Did you
Speaker 1: even know that from anywhere else? Or was that just
Speaker 1: something you came up with. I don't know. I feel
Speaker 1: like I wouldn't have come up with that on my own.
Speaker 1: I'm not that smart, but I think it was one.
Speaker 1: It was one format that people used for these things
Speaker 1: because I didn't want like I liked picking the upsets,
Speaker 1: and I had friends that kind of like that too,
Speaker 1: and so I think we wanted it to be more interesting.
Speaker 1: All right, So you go to Yale and I'm sorry
Speaker 1: to fast forward through your life because I want to
Speaker 1: get to the to the betting and your approach. But
Speaker 1: you're at Yale, obviously one of the great Ivy League
Speaker 1: schools in this country, and you decide to do as
Speaker 1: your thesis. First of all, was your major economics economics, economics,
Speaker 1: And I was either gonna be political science, history or economics,
Speaker 1: I thought, I ended up I ended up liking economics
Speaker 1: and liking the the approach, the tools that gives you
Speaker 1: to approach things, the kind of the way of thinking,
Speaker 1: not necessarily doing it towards you know, I don't care
Speaker 1: about interest rates or forecasting the macroeconomic climates or anything
Speaker 1: like that, but but I like the sort of the way.
Speaker 1: I liked the micro economics side of it and the
Speaker 1: sort of and that approach has been useful for me
Speaker 1: as a sports better for sure, Yeah, much more practical.
Speaker 1: I ended up being a political science major and knew
Speaker 1: while I was a political science major that I would
Speaker 1: never apply it to anything. UM, So good for you
Speaker 1: for that. So what ends up being your thesis then?
Speaker 1: So my thesis actually ended up being UM on the
Speaker 1: psychological inefficiencies of Baseball betting market. That basically process was
Speaker 1: I'm looking at these pictures here the process was undervalued
Speaker 1: and outcomes were over value. But initially Gil I got
Speaker 1: money from Yale. They actually paid for me to go
Speaker 1: out to Las Vegas for this internship with Las Vegas
Speaker 1: Sports Consultants where I was gonna I was gonna be
Speaker 1: doing my senior thesis on like on corruption and amateur
Speaker 1: athletics and like point shaving and stuff. But I kind
Speaker 1: of I want a different direction. All right, let's put
Speaker 1: a holder in that. I want to hear all about that.
Speaker 1: We'll talk about that after the break, and then we'll
Speaker 1: get into when Rufus first knew he could make a
Speaker 1: living at this, what was sort of the moment he
Speaker 1: knew that he had some note iety all of that.
Speaker 1: Rufus Pabody on a numbers game right here at Visa
Speaker 1: the Sports Betting Network. Welcome back to a numbers game
Speaker 1: with you, Alexander. Quick Picks Classic offers matchups and pro
Speaker 1: sports superstars determined by their historical game stats and then
Speaker 1: playable in a head to head parlay game. With quick
Speaker 1: Pigs Classic, you play these matchups win money on them
Speaker 1: as well. You can select your first ticket for as
Speaker 1: little as ten cents and win up to fifty thou
Speaker 1: dollars for each entry. New virtual NBA matchups are posted
Speaker 1: each hour, giving you more opportunities to cash big tickets.
Speaker 1: NFL games will launch soon as well. Congratulations, by the way,
Speaker 1: the last week's top winners at quick bigs Classic mikey Knows,
Speaker 1: j wa O, Dean Machine, and Jitnoid. If I mispronounced
Speaker 1: any of those by serious apologies their trick submitting several
Speaker 1: tickets each day. For details, go to quick picks dot
Speaker 1: com slash Visa bonus. That's quick picks dot com slash
Speaker 1: Visa Bonus. It's Gill Alexander. It's a numbers game right
Speaker 1: here at Visa the sports betting network. Rufus Peabody kind
Speaker 1: of enough to join us for the hour. I might
Speaker 1: need an extra segment after this, Rufus, so it might
Speaker 1: bleed to the second hour, if you can afford me
Speaker 1: that time. Uh, just because I want to flesh this
Speaker 1: out for first thing. And I probably buried the headline
Speaker 1: with you. I don't know if I buried the headline.
Speaker 1: I'm sort of big tongue in cheek there. But your
Speaker 1: name is Rufus Peabody. How many people? Uh, because you
Speaker 1: sound like a horn section player in Earth Wind and Fire, Like,
Speaker 1: how many people hear your name? And that he played clarinet? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I should have asked you that was what clarinet? Um
Speaker 1: interesting interesting name? Do people stop? First of all, your
Speaker 1: co host, Jeff ma cam't pronounce it. Do you know
Speaker 1: this about Jeff? It's not Peabody, it's Peabody, right, I mean,
Speaker 1: he's a Boston guy, so he likes he likes to
Speaker 1: represent former Boston guy. He lives. He's out there with
Speaker 1: you and in the on the Bay area. But you
Speaker 1: know he was Yeah, I don't know if you know this,
Speaker 1: but he went to m I t no, I did
Speaker 1: familiar I've heard that before. I am familiar with that story.
Speaker 1: All right, So your thesis is on the inefficiencies in
Speaker 1: the baseball betting market and what was your intention to
Speaker 1: go to Las Vegas and do what? Um, my intention
Speaker 1: was to go to Las Vegas and work for Las
Speaker 1: Vegas Sports Consultants. That's actually that was That was well,
Speaker 1: it wasn't my original intention. It was never my original intention.
Speaker 1: I I never even knew that. I didn't even know.
Speaker 1: I didn't know much about the world of sports betting
Speaker 1: at all. I remember actually I think I signed up
Speaker 1: for my first off shore sports book account, like back
Speaker 1: in maybe two thousand six or something, and I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna and I think I lost a hundred dollars
Speaker 1: really quickly, I put I think I still remember I
Speaker 1: betted on like the Angels laying minus one fifty or something.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, there, they have to be more
Speaker 1: likely than six, so there's no analytics behind it. But
Speaker 1: I didn't know much about the gambling world at all,
Speaker 1: So I wasn't one of these people that was like
Speaker 1: a gambler their whole life. And and I think, like,
Speaker 1: I'm not naturally gambler. I've always been sort of conservative financially.
Speaker 1: I naturally am someone that loves games, though, and so
Speaker 1: gambling is kind of a game. And so when I
Speaker 1: when I found out this whole world existed, I like,
Speaker 1: you know, I kind of dove into it. But but
Speaker 1: I still, even after doing the internship at Las Vegas
Speaker 1: Sports Consultants and getting an offer to go work there
Speaker 1: full time, I kind of explored my options. Um, I
Speaker 1: applied for some jobs in finance, which I didn't get,
Speaker 1: and and then so then and so backup Las Vegas. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I wasn't. I'll be honest. The first time
Speaker 1: I had one of these sort of finance consulting interviews
Speaker 1: when they were like, how many cell phone towers do
Speaker 1: you think there are in the United States? Like that
Speaker 1: kind of question. That was the specific one I got,
Speaker 1: And I didn't even know what a cell phone tower
Speaker 1: was at the time. I was like, like, I had
Speaker 1: no idea how cell phones actually worked. It was magic
Speaker 1: to me. But would you love stuff like that? Yeah? Well,
Speaker 1: the thing is the funny thing is I was so
Speaker 1: I bombed on that, but I feel like i'd be
Speaker 1: I'd be so much better at that stuff now. But
Speaker 1: I think sports betting in a way kind of taught
Speaker 1: me how to think. That's interesting. How did you become
Speaker 1: aware of Las Vegas Sports Consultants if you weren't a
Speaker 1: gambler to begin with, Like, that's a pretty obscure thing,
Speaker 1: especially back then. Yeah. Gene Wojahowski for ESPN dot Com
Speaker 1: wrote an article about LVSC. This was it was during
Speaker 1: March Madness, I think of two thousand seven or maybe
Speaker 1: two six I think I remember this. Yeah. He basically
Speaker 1: he was embedded at LVSC during selection Sunday and I
Speaker 1: think the whole thesis of the article was like you
Speaker 1: think you know sports, like you're actually square. These guys
Speaker 1: are the sharps and and and this is like this
Speaker 1: is how they work. And I was like, this seems
Speaker 1: so cool. It seems like academia for for sports kind
Speaker 1: of and and I was like I wanted to Oprah
Speaker 1: would say you're aha moment or reading that sort of thing.
Speaker 1: So when when you got there and let's be honest
Speaker 1: here and you spent some time there, were you shock
Speaker 1: did how primitive it all was? Yeah? I was shocked
Speaker 1: that as a as an economics major, I had more
Speaker 1: of a statistical background than anybody. But the thing is,
Speaker 1: these people are all they were very very smart, but
Speaker 1: they um and they just didn't have the sort of
Speaker 1: foremal statistics. They couldn't run like significance tests and stuff
Speaker 1: like that, right, but they but they were very very
Speaker 1: good with numbers and and what's interesting is I think
Speaker 1: Kenny White had me like test out something to try
Speaker 1: to figure out the value of three point shot versus
Speaker 1: a rebound versus an assistant basketball basically come up with
Speaker 1: some formula for him um to test what his was.
Speaker 1: And the funny thing is like it almost matched exactly
Speaker 1: what he had developed just from his intuition, which was
Speaker 1: just absolutely incredible to me. So you have a bunch
Speaker 1: of people that spent their careers out, you know, looking
Speaker 1: basically making numbers on sporting events, and they had their
Speaker 1: system and and it was logical, and they were very
Speaker 1: very smart people. Um, but isn't that amazing? I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: go ahead, no, no, you know you said that about Kenny.
Speaker 1: Kenny is a frequent guest on the network uh here
Speaker 1: at visn um so Kenny still and Kenny does things
Speaker 1: on his own CBS sports line, I believe as well.
Speaker 1: But what you just said to me is very interesting.
Speaker 1: And I always say that the reason I started doing
Speaker 1: a podcast on sports betting so many years ago and
Speaker 1: I'm doing this show now is just everything about the
Speaker 1: subject fascinates me. And you just hit on one of
Speaker 1: my favorite things, which is and I always use you,
Speaker 1: by the way, in this example, I say, I know
Speaker 1: the most mathematical guys in the world who do things,
Speaker 1: you know, on one side of the spectrum to approach
Speaker 1: approach sports betting, and then on the far end of
Speaker 1: the spectrum, there are guys that just from you know,
Speaker 1: being involved in it for as long as they have
Speaker 1: some more scammy than others. We can get into that later. Um,
Speaker 1: but some just by sheer experience, right, And oftentimes those
Speaker 1: two approaches end up at the same answer. That's amazing,
Speaker 1: isn't it Like it's endlessly fascinating me. No, it really
Speaker 1: is that there's not sort of it's not one size
Speaker 1: fits all and everybody. And by the way, the fact
Speaker 1: that you consider me the mathematical guy is very interesting
Speaker 1: because I don't consider myself like the mathematical guy. I'm
Speaker 1: a guy that you know, I have somewhat of a
Speaker 1: statistical background, but I'm I'm not gonna I mean, there's
Speaker 1: there are a lot of people that are way way
Speaker 1: better at the at the math than I am. For
Speaker 1: sure Dr Bobs as well as a math guy too.
Speaker 1: Sometimes Uh, he's we established that he was not actually
Speaker 1: a trained physician last time he was on UM, so
Speaker 1: I want to get into that room. Is because what
Speaker 1: I'm curious about after the break is so you're at
Speaker 1: Las Vegas Sports Consultants. You have your first entree into
Speaker 1: the business, this world of Las Vegas. You come all
Speaker 1: the way over from Connecticut and are immersed in this
Speaker 1: and at some point something must have triggered that said
Speaker 1: to you, I might be better off on the other
Speaker 1: side of this, I might be better as a better
Speaker 1: O R E er. We'll get into that how that's
Speaker 1: would have clicked for you if it was a sudden
Speaker 1: thing or something that happened over time. Rufus Peabody profiling
Speaker 1: the better right here on a numbers game at Visa
Speaker 1: Welcome back to a numbers game with Jill Alexander. No Masters,
Speaker 1: No problem. The golf issue for Point Spread Weekly is
Speaker 1: ready for download today and among the golf features Matt
Speaker 1: Human's previews, the potential second Tiger versus film Mano a
Speaker 1: Mano matchup West Reynolds, handicapping all ninety six golfers in
Speaker 1: the Masters field in November. Say that again. Masters Field
Speaker 1: in November and available for futures wagers Plus. We get
Speaker 1: your prep for the NFL Draft and wait for it
Speaker 1: table tennis. If you're so inclined to bet it, now's
Speaker 1: the time to become a Visa Plus subscriber. It's free.
Speaker 1: You won't have to decide what you want to do,
Speaker 1: pay or cancel until at least one of the major
Speaker 1: sports returns just go to visa dot com slash subscribe
Speaker 1: to sign up. That's Visa dot com slash subscribe. Rufus.
Speaker 1: We were saying off air, and there was poor form
Speaker 1: of me to ask you to stay an extra segment
Speaker 1: while we were on air. Um, but pesky commercials get
Speaker 1: in the way. I wish it were podcast for and
Speaker 1: we could just fly through it. But we're still in
Speaker 1: college or which still we just got past. Um. But
Speaker 1: so so you're at Las Vegas sports consultants, You're around
Speaker 1: smart people. But at some point you have to realize, um,
Speaker 1: all right, maybe maybe my and this is my words.
Speaker 1: It's not it's never gonna be your words. But you're like,
Speaker 1: my brain is bigger than everybody else is here. No, okay,
Speaker 1: I'm just but but but I had a different approach.
Speaker 1: I think you have a different proach. So what yeah,
Speaker 1: when did it trigger where you're like, hey, maybe I
Speaker 1: maybe I should actually be a better So at the time,
Speaker 1: so I was making a salary of twenty five tho
Speaker 1: dollars a year, so I was scraping by and I
Speaker 1: had a little bit of I had a little bit
Speaker 1: of savings. Um, but I was very lucky that I
Speaker 1: was very privileged that I did not have. UM, I
Speaker 1: didn't have any student loans or anything to pay off.
Speaker 1: So that was you know, so I was in a
Speaker 1: fortunate position that you know where if I did, I
Speaker 1: wouldn't probably would not have been able to take a
Speaker 1: job making dollars a year. So UM, I was betting,
Speaker 1: betting props, betting derivatives. I've built out money line charts.
Speaker 1: I remember I would get off of work at LVSC
Speaker 1: and then and this is before smartphones, I'd have a
Speaker 1: list of m I'd write down a list of of
Speaker 1: bets and casinos they need to go to, and that's
Speaker 1: the place, and and go there and be you know,
Speaker 1: betting a hundred bucks fifty bucks, three hundred bucks um pop.
Speaker 1: And and also doing some card county and playing blackjack
Speaker 1: and trying to slow slowly build a bank roll. And
Speaker 1: I you know, I had some success on props. In fact,
Speaker 1: the super Bowl of the it was the two thousand
Speaker 1: nine Super Bowl, so Steelers and Cardinals, which to this
Speaker 1: day I still have not actually watched, where I's pretty good.
Speaker 1: Want to check it out, seriously, Uh, you know, I
Speaker 1: just know what the final stat line was. I didn't
Speaker 1: know that Larry fitz jailed was like shut down for
Speaker 1: three quarters and then went off in the fourth quarter.
Speaker 1: But I just saw that that line. Yeah, that was
Speaker 1: that was an un it that didn't win for me.
Speaker 1: But but I I had Let's see, I had about
Speaker 1: ten thousand dollars to my name. I borrowed ten thousand
Speaker 1: dollars from a friend, and I had someone that worked
Speaker 1: invest forty dollars in me um where I was getting
Speaker 1: a twenty percent free roll, and which is honestly quite
Speaker 1: quite generous on the free roll if you think about
Speaker 1: it's one game, like I was quite diversified. But but
Speaker 1: I ended up hitting Gary Russell to score the first
Speaker 1: touchdown and I think twenty five to one odds or
Speaker 1: something like that, and for uh, you know, and that
Speaker 1: was that was a pretty big hit because I had
Speaker 1: to think a total like fifty fifty some thousand invested
Speaker 1: and I think the return to profit of like seven thousand,
Speaker 1: so um, so it was you know, and not obviously,
Speaker 1: I mean I think I made eight thousand after that,
Speaker 1: since you know, I had to pay people back and
Speaker 1: and all that. But but that was kind of I
Speaker 1: remember thinking at the time, like like where am I
Speaker 1: going with this job. Like my parents were fine with
Speaker 1: me moving out here that they knew this is kind
Speaker 1: of my passion, but they wanted My dad would always say,
Speaker 1: he's just concerned that I was. I wasn't um that
Speaker 1: it wasn't like a dead end, right that they're basically
Speaker 1: what's my plan? And so I didn't really know what
Speaker 1: my plan was. But I felt like if I had
Speaker 1: bombed and that super Bowl, it might have been worth saying, well,
Speaker 1: what am I actually doing here? And so I think
Speaker 1: that's super Bowl? Though without that super Bowl, it wasn't
Speaker 1: just the fact that that I did well, it was
Speaker 1: it was actually a chance meeting I had that kind
Speaker 1: of set the stage for me to bed for a living.
Speaker 1: Where I was in line at the Golden Nugget betting
Speaker 1: or to bet props. Actually they just released their sheet.
Speaker 1: I happened to just randomly be there. It was the friday.
Speaker 1: It was that first Friday after conference championships. Um, I'm
Speaker 1: and this one guy was already there, Like the sheet
Speaker 1: comes out, I grab it. He he's already in line.
Speaker 1: Um he uh? And he was. I think he spent
Speaker 1: forty minutes betting props and ordered. Uh. I think he
Speaker 1: ordered like a jack and coke from a Cotta waitress
Speaker 1: while he was up there betting his props. Um, and
Speaker 1: the Cotto waitress came back with the drink and he
Speaker 1: was still betting the props. So um, this was he was.
Speaker 1: And so I when I ran into him at the Palms,
Speaker 1: I saw him asking about NBA props at the Palms
Speaker 1: that in March. I kind of followed him out of
Speaker 1: the book, and as he tells the story, he thought
Speaker 1: I was going to try to mug him in the
Speaker 1: parking lot, and so he had his hand on his mace,
Speaker 1: and because you're still exactly right, I was like, really, um,
Speaker 1: but but I he he was the professional sports veteran,
Speaker 1: and he kind of introduced me to that world. And
Speaker 1: I threw him, you know, and I met him and
Speaker 1: his partners and sort of things kind of went from there.
Speaker 1: If you were name was Gary Russell, well what do
Speaker 1: you what do you say to him? Do you hug him?
Speaker 1: You know? Yeah, Gary Russell in a way is kind
Speaker 1: of an m VV in my life. If I guess
Speaker 1: you would have thought, so, okay. So that's a great
Speaker 1: story and and certainly I understand how it it triggers
Speaker 1: it for you. Were you successful across the board? Did
Speaker 1: you realize very quickly that you were better at other
Speaker 1: supports than others? How did that go from there? So
Speaker 1: so my I guess I had my baseball model I
Speaker 1: had built when I did my senior thesis. So the
Speaker 1: senior thesis actually was looking at inefficiencies in the market,
Speaker 1: psychological inefficiency. So it's basically, rather than predicting a game,
Speaker 1: it was predicting what was going to be miss priced
Speaker 1: based on sort of the safer metric stuff at the time.
Speaker 1: So the fact that a picture that had allowed a
Speaker 1: high batting average and balls in play had been unlucky
Speaker 1: and was probably going to be undervalued by the market,
Speaker 1: and a picture with a high strike out you know,
Speaker 1: and I got a picture with the low strike out
Speaker 1: rate in the high walk rate but had been good
Speaker 1: on batting average of balls in play, like the Matt
Speaker 1: Cain's of the world, would probably be overvalued. So there'd
Speaker 1: be value was Matt Caine for years and so yeah,
Speaker 1: he managed to sustain it for quite a while before
Speaker 1: he dropped off a cliff, right, So did the Jared
Speaker 1: Weaver type too. But uh, so, I I guess at
Speaker 1: the end of that though, I actually built a model
Speaker 1: as well, which I had been working and refining, and
Speaker 1: so I, um, so I guess I got my start. Um.
Speaker 1: I got a twenty free roll from UM from this
Speaker 1: this betting group and to bet baseball. And a month
Speaker 1: into it, we had they had made or I should
Speaker 1: say I had made about I think dollars was my cut,
Speaker 1: and they were like, why are you still you know,
Speaker 1: why are you still working at LVSC? Why not? Uh?
Speaker 1: Why not? You know you're cutting your own throat at
Speaker 1: that point. So they basically gave me a full time offer.
Speaker 1: I would continue get um free roll and on the
Speaker 1: other sports they're doing as well. And so I went
Speaker 1: from there until I, you know, had enough to buy
Speaker 1: into the bank roll and then ye and then the
Speaker 1: rest of the rest of his Wray still did good relationship.
Speaker 1: You still have a good relationship with the guys you
Speaker 1: used to work with. Yeah, fantastic guys. Fantastic So your
Speaker 1: first so correct me if I'm wrong, and you'll tell me.
Speaker 1: Here here's what I know about you that your staple sports,
Speaker 1: and maybe there are more that I don't know about,
Speaker 1: but I know you to be a baseball guy. I
Speaker 1: know you to be a golf guy. You love betting golf.
Speaker 1: But the thing that you and you touched on it
Speaker 1: by your story about standing in line there at the
Speaker 1: Gold Nugget. The thing that you gained notoriety for first
Speaker 1: was betting super Bowl props and was at the Washington
Speaker 1: Post that did a piece on you. What year was that?
Speaker 1: I guess that was to the two thousand eleven Super Bowl.
Speaker 1: Very google bow Yes for super Bowl props? How did you?
Speaker 1: How did you know? You know? How that whole thing
Speaker 1: originated by the way that the Washington Post store was
Speaker 1: was I was trying to pimp out the Massy Peabody
Speaker 1: ratings to Dan Steinberg at the Washington Post, and so
Speaker 1: he ended up with without really having much success, but
Speaker 1: he ended up coming to me and was like, Hey,
Speaker 1: I actually want to do a story and like a
Speaker 1: better betting on all the Super Bowl prop stuff, and
Speaker 1: so that's kind of it kind of happened from that.
Speaker 1: But but the Massy Peaple, the Massy Peabody thing was
Speaker 1: was the reason I got in touch with him. The
Speaker 1: first place to explain to people, because we have two
Speaker 1: minutes here before the Blake the brig explained to people.
Speaker 1: So Kate Massey was your professor, one of your professors
Speaker 1: at Yale. This is my senior thesis advisor. Oh, I see,
Speaker 1: And so the two of you got together at some
Speaker 1: point to do these ratings. So he was he was
Speaker 1: a mentor to me, and he approached me in I
Speaker 1: guess the summer of two thousand ten. He had been
Speaker 1: approached by this guy, Michael Saltheno, who's a reporter um
Speaker 1: for it was a reporter for Meadaland's media group, which
Speaker 1: to stuff for the Wall Street Journal, and he had
Speaker 1: this idea to do quantitative NFL ratings, and so he
Speaker 1: approached Kate about it, and he was like, I know
Speaker 1: the guy that I want to do this with, and
Speaker 1: that was me. And so I think Kate initially said that,
Speaker 1: you know, I would I would do I would do
Speaker 1: nine per cent. You know, I would have to do
Speaker 1: nine of the work. But um it was something like
Speaker 1: fifty percent the ideas of the work. As he comes
Speaker 1: four peabody. Yeah, that's another copulation. Yeah exactly. I mean,
Speaker 1: your kid's a kid's a heavyweight in that world. So
Speaker 1: all right, when we come back, Rufus, I want to
Speaker 1: get into when you first knew then that you could
Speaker 1: make a living at this. How you felt about that
Speaker 1: first notoriety in the Washington Post? What you're betting? If
Speaker 1: we had a full sports calendar, what you would actually
Speaker 1: be betting? Would you be betting every sport year round?
Speaker 1: Or what sports do you focus on? Uh? And then
Speaker 1: what this is probably a whole another tentacle of this,
Speaker 1: what kind of moves your needle today, Like as you
Speaker 1: look to your future, will you be betting sports for
Speaker 1: the rest of your a's or uh? Does a guy
Speaker 1: like you who has a pedigree from Yale and is
Speaker 1: a thinker, um, introspective, analytical? Do you have your site
Speaker 1: set on other things beyond sports betting? You and I
Speaker 1: used to have conversations about this back in the day.
Speaker 1: A lot curious where your heads at rufus Peabody Right
Speaker 1: here on a numbers game at Visa. It's on numbers
Speaker 1: game with your host Gil Alexander wants to believe in
Speaker 1: analy It's it is Gil Alexander our number two of
Speaker 1: a numbers game right here at Visa and the Sports
Speaker 1: Betting Network series Sex and Channel two four, Visa dot Com,
Speaker 1: the Visa app, Foo Boa Sling Game plus Profiling Rufus
Speaker 1: peabody uh this morning. UM. I don't know. If we
Speaker 1: have a Rufus still up on video, we might not
Speaker 1: be able to say it's pretty, but we we can
Speaker 1: certainly still talk to him, and we can flash pictures
Speaker 1: of his uh, his life uh in front of us
Speaker 1: as we talked to Rufus. Um. And let me just
Speaker 1: sort of kick it into what you have learned about yourself.
Speaker 1: I remember you telling me on more than one occasion,
Speaker 1: and I've sat with you on a college football Saturday
Speaker 1: back in the day when you're just betting rampantly, um,
Speaker 1: and you always used to say, you know, if I
Speaker 1: insertain my opinion or my emotions into things, or my
Speaker 1: feelings or my thoughts, it usually doesn't go as well
Speaker 1: for you. So you're you're super, You're super by the numbers,
Speaker 1: and I'm curious, do you consider your approach excuse me,
Speaker 1: very complicated. So it occurs to me that for people
Speaker 1: listening to this and they're like, Okay, this is super inspiring,
Speaker 1: I want to be just like this guy. I'm just
Speaker 1: worried I'm not as smart as this guy and I
Speaker 1: don't have the background that he does. Do you consider
Speaker 1: what you do complicated. Is it generally simple to you, like, like,
Speaker 1: what's the threshold? Yeah, that's a good question. It kind
Speaker 1: of is complicated and simple at the same time. So
Speaker 1: the framework is simple. I'm not someone that is. I'm not.
Speaker 1: It depends on the sport, of course, but like for football,
Speaker 1: I'm not simulating. I know people that are, but I'm
Speaker 1: not simulating a matchup between a left tackle and a
Speaker 1: right defensive end. Um, I'm not. I'm not simulating at
Speaker 1: a play level for football either. Um. What I'm doing
Speaker 1: is contextualizing. I'm I'm contextualizing performance and basically trying to
Speaker 1: figure out what is predictive and what isn't and from
Speaker 1: they're building a model. And so it's um and and
Speaker 1: then and honestly you can get into the weeds on
Speaker 1: any one individual part. But but I guess the thing
Speaker 1: is in the massy pebody. I mean, the kind of
Speaker 1: the kind of basis of that was was we're gonna
Speaker 1: do something simple, but we're gonna do it well. And
Speaker 1: so we focused at the beginning on four only four
Speaker 1: different stats. It was we had rushing passing play success
Speaker 1: in scoring efficiency, and we actually ended up building a
Speaker 1: model that there was it was quite good. It It
Speaker 1: did well for for many many years against the against
Speaker 1: the NFL spreads, and it was just literally based on
Speaker 1: those four stats, but adjusting for opponent quality, figuring out
Speaker 1: how much how predictive it is, um, you know, adjusting
Speaker 1: for the fact that, as you said, like third and
Speaker 1: two is very different than third and twelve and so UM.
Speaker 1: And so it really comes from UM at each stage
Speaker 1: being saying what is skill? What is luck? How can
Speaker 1: I quantify this? And so the model at the end
Speaker 1: is a sum of all these different things where weighted
Speaker 1: bit by how predictive they are. And so UM, I
Speaker 1: don't know if you want to call that simple or complicated,
Speaker 1: because you can you can dive, you can, I mean,
Speaker 1: you can get really really deep in like in anything.
Speaker 1: I mean you can say, well, you know this ninety
Speaker 1: touchdown pass to Wes Welker on the screen, like was
Speaker 1: because this defender fell down? Should we really credit this
Speaker 1: guy with ninety yards? Like predictively speaking things like that,
Speaker 1: what what is skill? What is luck? What is quantifiable?
Speaker 1: And I would add UM otherwise stated what is sustainable?
Speaker 1: What is not sustainable? We're talking to Rufus Peabody's Kiel
Speaker 1: Alexander right here on the numbers game at Visa in
Speaker 1: the Sports Betting Network. Was I right when I said
Speaker 1: baseball golf props are still your bread and butter? Or
Speaker 1: am I missing something? No, You're right, I've kind of
Speaker 1: dabbled in some other stuff, but I've I've sort of
Speaker 1: gotten a little more into the DFS world recently as well,
Speaker 1: and over the last year. Yeah, I wish I had
Speaker 1: had looked into it earlier. Actually, I think there are
Speaker 1: some real opportunities there especially, I mean there still are,
Speaker 1: but I think there were even more opportunities, you know,
Speaker 1: five years ago or south that that I missed out on.
Speaker 1: But I was actually planning and taking this season off
Speaker 1: of baseball because I am focused on some some other things.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to I'm trying to devote more time to
Speaker 1: things that are gonna pay off long term. And honestly,
Speaker 1: at this point, I'm not sure baseball is one of
Speaker 1: those things anymore, at least baseball betting. There's there's just there.
Speaker 1: There is so much data out there, and there's a
Speaker 1: lot of really smart people attacking it, and and so
Speaker 1: I just don't I don't see myself building a business
Speaker 1: around it. Or anything. And so I'm trying to fit,
Speaker 1: like you mentioned, talking potentially about other things, and I'm
Speaker 1: trying to figure out where where kind of I'm going
Speaker 1: in this industry. I think when you do anything for
Speaker 1: long enough, it gets a little bit um, I don't
Speaker 1: want to say stale, but but it it becomes a
Speaker 1: little bit tedious and repetitive. And so I'm I'm trying
Speaker 1: to and I got in well, I would say I
Speaker 1: got in at the right time, but I feel like
Speaker 1: if I had gotten in ten years earlier would have
Speaker 1: definitely been the right time. It feels like, you know,
Speaker 1: it gets harder and harder to win, you know, every year,
Speaker 1: and so I'm just trying to I don't know if
Speaker 1: I'll still be able to. I don't know if I'll
Speaker 1: still be a winning veteran in ten years. And so
Speaker 1: I'm trying to figure out what I you know, I'm
Speaker 1: relatively young. I'm thirty four. I want to figure out
Speaker 1: what i want to do with the rest of my life.
Speaker 1: So I got your whole life in front of you,
Speaker 1: as as our parents would say, and it is really
Speaker 1: true at thirty war um, and I think, you know,
Speaker 1: look just right, there is also something that should be
Speaker 1: just emphasized the fact that you have the ability to
Speaker 1: sort of self assess and assess the market in front
Speaker 1: of you and say, um, these things don't last forever.
Speaker 1: And I think you're right. You know when you say
Speaker 1: it was ten years before. Listen, I hear stories when
Speaker 1: when we talked to Roxy and Chrissy and all these
Speaker 1: these guys who have been in the industry from its inception.
Speaker 1: I mean, imagine what it was like then. Alan Boston
Speaker 1: can tell you stories. So I think that that awareness
Speaker 1: is also what makes you successful, the fact that you
Speaker 1: know that, um, there are other factors. It's not just you, right,
Speaker 1: it's it's the general market, and that is always changing.
Speaker 1: I've said often on the show Baseball. Just five years ago,
Speaker 1: I would have said it's my favorite sport period to bet,
Speaker 1: And now I'm like the way this game has changed.
Speaker 1: With pitching, it's just so different. For goodness sake, some
Speaker 1: teams start games with closers. Now I call them they're opener.
Speaker 1: So it's it's totally different to quantify when when folks
Speaker 1: come in to the bullpen. Now it's much earlier than
Speaker 1: it used to be. It's a whole bunch of things,
Speaker 1: so you recognize that things are evolving. So then you know,
Speaker 1: you and I used to have discussions about bigger picture
Speaker 1: stuff beyond the industry that you you didn't know. Did
Speaker 1: you want to spend the rest of your life betting sports?
Speaker 1: You struggled, If I'm correct, and I believe I'm characterizing
Speaker 1: this correctly, you struggled with the you know, was it
Speaker 1: meaningful enough to do it for the rest of your
Speaker 1: days on Earth? Talk about that if you could for
Speaker 1: a second. But you also just mentioned within the industry,
Speaker 1: so maybe you're not completely thinking of one day leaving
Speaker 1: the industry. What is it that that that is passionate
Speaker 1: for you now within the industry, and then what do
Speaker 1: you think about outside of it? What what am I
Speaker 1: pass Okay? I think the thing I'm most passionate about
Speaker 1: in the industry right now is the nonprofit idea, the
Speaker 1: the American Betts Coalition that UM that I've been working
Speaker 1: on with with Captain Jack, among other people, UM, Captain
Speaker 1: Jack Cars and Twitter. He's really really smart guy, and
Speaker 1: he is more plugged into the legal sports betting landscape
Speaker 1: than anybody I know. It's it's crazy how he knows
Speaker 1: what he does. I don't. I don't know how he
Speaker 1: knows all these things, like, but he knows everything. I
Speaker 1: asked him. I asked him, I said, when you come
Speaker 1: on the show, what is it that you want to
Speaker 1: talk about? And I didn't expect him to answer that,
Speaker 1: and and I've followed he said, he goes, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: all the legal all the different you know, ramifications in
Speaker 1: every jurisdiction, that kind of thing, which I didn't expect
Speaker 1: that to be the answer. And I followed him on
Speaker 1: that since then, And he is your right bar none
Speaker 1: the the top authority. I would say all that he
Speaker 1: might for sure, and he's he's actually i'll plug you know.
Speaker 1: He's he's starting a YouTube channel and he I think, um,
Speaker 1: he's doing these Friday webcast lebinar things where he's trying
Speaker 1: to make people people better, better to help their process.
Speaker 1: So he's he's he's a great follow on Twitter. But
Speaker 1: I'm passionate about that. I think it's something that because
Speaker 1: I've always kind of been outspoken about, UM, I guess
Speaker 1: fairness in the industry, and and that's largely been directed
Speaker 1: at touts and and my stance on the town industry
Speaker 1: is I think pretty well nown UM I don't need
Speaker 1: to go into detail on it, but I mean, I
Speaker 1: think because I'm curious about that with you, so you
Speaker 1: have always been passionate about it. You and I have
Speaker 1: certainly talked about it before, uh, in some more contentious
Speaker 1: situations than others. For those who don't know, Um, but
Speaker 1: do you ever think to yourself because because the only
Speaker 1: pushback I ever gave you one because I think the
Speaker 1: cause is a good one, right, I think we all agree, well,
Speaker 1: this is an industry that, for you know, in history
Speaker 1: has just been a horrible one generally speaking. I guess
Speaker 1: my only pushback with it was, boy, you're really trying
Speaker 1: to save the world? Is that really something you want
Speaker 1: to get into? And then the other thing that I
Speaker 1: that I was super questioning of was be careful not
Speaker 1: to throw every human being into this same barrel. Right,
Speaker 1: those were the only two things I would push back on.
Speaker 1: So I don't know, maybe maybe you are as passionate,
Speaker 1: Maybe you listen to that and didn't care or thought
Speaker 1: I was full of it. I don't know what is
Speaker 1: your approach to it now? No, I mean I think
Speaker 1: it's hard to have a one size fits all approach
Speaker 1: to anything, right, I mean there's always room for nuance,
Speaker 1: And I think that's a good point, But I mean,
Speaker 1: I just think in general, it's just not a sustainable
Speaker 1: business model because if you're if you're, if you are
Speaker 1: a successful handicapper, you're giving out quality information, you're going
Speaker 1: to be moving lines in the vast majority of your
Speaker 1: subscribers are not gonna be able to get down at
Speaker 1: the price you listed you And I don't know that
Speaker 1: the way markets, you know, markets are efficient enough that
Speaker 1: that if you're if you're taking the worst price, it's
Speaker 1: gonna be really hard to win laun term. And so
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously we all know the Vegas days of
Speaker 1: the world. Are you know that's that's you know, those
Speaker 1: are salesmen the obvious and yeah, right, you know, scammers
Speaker 1: and like he's a marketing genius and that's what you know,
Speaker 1: he's not a winning sports better um. But I just
Speaker 1: think even if you are, even if you do have
Speaker 1: good information, I think it's it's sort of the more
Speaker 1: successful you are, or the better better you are, the
Speaker 1: harder becomes to sort of maintain or to build a
Speaker 1: to sort of build yourself as a talent um, at
Speaker 1: least to do it in a sustainable way and so.
Speaker 1: But but I think right now, I mean, the American
Speaker 1: Betters Coalition isn't about talents as much. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: about consumer protection for better as largely. And I guess
Speaker 1: protecting better is from tals is one asment of that.
Speaker 1: But the bigger part is just the opportunity we have
Speaker 1: now given legalization is happening in the majority, or is
Speaker 1: happening or is in the process of happening in the
Speaker 1: majority of the states right now, and so UM, I
Speaker 1: think it's it's an opportunity UM to get it right,
Speaker 1: and I think unfortunately we're we're not really doing it.
Speaker 1: The people that are writing these laws are essentially UM
Speaker 1: being educated on sports betting by lobbyists. And these are
Speaker 1: not lobbyists for betters. These are lobbyists for UM, for operators,
Speaker 1: for leagues, for data providers, for you know B two
Speaker 1: B like the Canbies and the sp text of the
Speaker 1: world right and so so betters don't really have a voice,
Speaker 1: and you end up with with legislation that ends up,
Speaker 1: you know, hurting betters. I mean, you look at a
Speaker 1: state like New Hampshire and the Draft Kings has a
Speaker 1: monopoly there. Betters don't have any other options. And so
Speaker 1: the whole point is if you want the US sports
Speaker 1: betting market to be competitive, you need to have it.
Speaker 1: You need to um it needs to kind of make
Speaker 1: inroads into the offshore world. I think, because I think
Speaker 1: a lot of people don't you know, I know there's
Speaker 1: the people that that that hate on the off shore world,
Speaker 1: um and and say that that they aren't subject to
Speaker 1: the same task as in regulations, so they'll always have
Speaker 1: a competitive advantage and they can offer credit. But at
Speaker 1: the same time, you know, people have to it's you know,
Speaker 1: your your trusting. You have to trust some site in
Speaker 1: Aruba or Costa Rica wherever it is right and so UM.
Speaker 1: But I think if you want to if you want
Speaker 1: to compete against the off shore, you need a good product.
Speaker 1: And I think when you see sort of these monopolies, UM,
Speaker 1: I think these books are not really doing that. They're
Speaker 1: just trying to compete against the other folks the United
Speaker 1: States or in their state. And so I just don't
Speaker 1: think there's gonna be the same innovation in the state
Speaker 1: like New Hampshire where you only have one operator, whereas
Speaker 1: in New Jersey where you have a you know, a
Speaker 1: ton of different operators. I think it's better for the consumer.
Speaker 1: And so anyway, sorry, I didn't I didn't mean to
Speaker 1: ramble on that. But no, no, no, no, as you
Speaker 1: as you talk about that, I mean that really gets me, Jazz.
Speaker 1: I mean, look, you were you and I are from
Speaker 1: like d C leaps to mind as one of the
Speaker 1: more embarrassing jurisdictions, right in terms of what what they're doing. UH.
Speaker 1: And you bring up the off shore point, and I
Speaker 1: try to list. Look, I try to do this on
Speaker 1: a numbers game all the time. I don't know what
Speaker 1: others do, but I bet, I bet you know when
Speaker 1: sports is going on over three days a year and
Speaker 1: fifty days a year, I mean, that's what that's what
Speaker 1: I do. This is relatable to those who listen to
Speaker 1: this show. And two, you know, to not act like
Speaker 1: offshore as a thing and in some respects a good thing.
Speaker 1: UH is doing this inauthentically. And you know there was
Speaker 1: a statement made by the president of the American Gaming
Speaker 1: Association over the weekend. I'm not sure if you caught it,
Speaker 1: and I don't want yeah, I don't want to disparage anyone,
Speaker 1: but just the it reeked of not knowing some facts, right,
Speaker 1: like it just it started at a point that just
Speaker 1: seemed disingenuous on a few levels. Not maybe not disingenuous,
Speaker 1: maybe just ignorant, maybe just someone who doesn't bet themselves,
Speaker 1: who was saying some things that were just false. Right, Um,
Speaker 1: odds are better offshore, Uh in the reputable places. You know.
Speaker 1: That was one of the statements that leaps to mine
Speaker 1: where I'm just like, this is just depth to me.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you have the same reaction of that. Well,
Speaker 1: I think you have to judge people what they say
Speaker 1: based on their based on their motivations and their incentives,
Speaker 1: you know, and if if it's on Twitter, someone who uh,
Speaker 1: you know, if who works for a site that get
Speaker 1: has affiliate deals with legal sports books, is is trashing
Speaker 1: the offshore world that that probably you know, there's probably
Speaker 1: a reason he's doing that him or right. I mean,
Speaker 1: so I think it's you have to look at people's motivations.
Speaker 1: I truly believe that. I Mean there are people that um,
Speaker 1: back during the before the financial market financial sorry, the
Speaker 1: housing crisis, back you know, the two thousand eight financial crisis, Um,
Speaker 1: we're justifying what they were doing and saying, um, I'm
Speaker 1: trying to actually, I'm I'm trying to remember that example.
Speaker 1: But basically, no, people, I mean people that were selling
Speaker 1: these mortgage backed securities and everything saying they were, you know,
Speaker 1: the next great thing. And and there's people that people
Speaker 1: can justify a lot of things, right and so, um,
Speaker 1: I guess you. I mean, you have to take the
Speaker 1: motivations into consideration, the fact that what's paying their paychecks.
Speaker 1: So I think it's that simple. And I don't think
Speaker 1: I'm not saying these people like, I'm not saying people
Speaker 1: that have the opinion that the off shore world is
Speaker 1: bad or good, you know, or or wrong or anything
Speaker 1: like that. I'm just saying that you have to you
Speaker 1: start looking at things through a certain lens after a while, um,
Speaker 1: just based on your motivations incentives. I think it just
Speaker 1: happens naturally. I don't think I'm not trying to say
Speaker 1: that people. I'm not trying to say it's a conscious thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I'm not listen, I'm not again, I'm not trying
Speaker 1: to disparage anyone. I guess what I'm saying is you
Speaker 1: have to start at some sort of factual basis, right,
Speaker 1: like not every nothing's black and white. Uh not all
Speaker 1: is evil over there and all is good over here.
Speaker 1: In fact, in many respects quite the opposite. So we
Speaker 1: have to I think your cause, I guess what I'm
Speaker 1: saying is is a very as you point out, what
Speaker 1: a moment in time to do that of all times,
Speaker 1: right post legalization here as jurisdictions come online one after another,
Speaker 1: hopefully we get sports back sooner than later. So Rufus
Speaker 1: and again we're talking to Rufus Peabody, who co host
Speaker 1: the Bet the Process podcast with Jeff ma. I leave
Speaker 1: you with this, and I could go on and talk
Speaker 1: to you for hours. I always enjoy talking to you.
Speaker 1: But you and I used to I don't know if
Speaker 1: you remember this. Um, we used to go to this
Speaker 1: restaurant there in Vegas. It had I want to say,
Speaker 1: it was like a New Orleans. Um. It was a
Speaker 1: Cajun place, right right, Lola's That's right, which, by the way,
Speaker 1: did not it did not make it onto Aaron Kessler's
Speaker 1: Bracket and Rhythm Kitchen, another Cajun place did. So it
Speaker 1: is a seven seed. I don't know if you saw it.
Speaker 1: You know our friend Aaron Kessler, Yes, yeah, he did
Speaker 1: a bracket of you know, March Madness for for best
Speaker 1: restaurants in Las Vegas. Anyway, Lo Lolas didn't make it
Speaker 1: into the field, and Rhythm Kitchen was the seven, so
Speaker 1: I was upset about that. Anyway, I gotta I gotta
Speaker 1: find that. I gotta find Kesler's bracket, because I'm sure
Speaker 1: there are. Here's the thing with those kinds of brackets,
Speaker 1: though you can only put in what you've been to.
Speaker 1: I guess on those brackets, and there's always gonna be omissions,
Speaker 1: even if you know, for anybody who does I want
Speaker 1: to see that. But Lola's big oversight on on this
Speaker 1: part maybe has never been there. But you used to say,
Speaker 1: and we have about nineties, about thirty seconds here for
Speaker 1: sixty seconds, I used to say, you wanted to do
Speaker 1: things beyond this. Do you still feel that way? Obviously
Speaker 1: you have a passion what we just discussed. But do
Speaker 1: you ever I mean, I doubt you'll do that, you know,
Speaker 1: solely for the rest of your life. Do you ever
Speaker 1: think about other things? Is there some other arena that
Speaker 1: interests you? You're right, I mean, and so arena besides
Speaker 1: sports betting? I mean, yes, I do think I want
Speaker 1: to do something business related Um, I think it would
Speaker 1: be sports or sports betting related, probably in some capacity,
Speaker 1: just because I feel like that's kind of where I've
Speaker 1: been in this for ten years. I feel like that's
Speaker 1: kind of where my expertise is. I in something else,
Speaker 1: i'd kind of be starting starting a new in a way. Obviously,
Speaker 1: the American Betts Coalition is not gonna be a career.
Speaker 1: That's that's something that's that is not going to make money.
Speaker 1: It's a nonprofit. That's something that I want to do
Speaker 1: kind of is something to give back. But but I'm
Speaker 1: looking at a few different things, but they are in
Speaker 1: sort of the sports world, still in the sports analytics space,
Speaker 1: all right. So that I mean, I don't know, Maybe
Speaker 1: maybe I'm wrong, but it sounds like you've you're more
Speaker 1: comfortable in your own skin now than you were maybe
Speaker 1: five years ago. Is that true? I think so? Or
Speaker 1: maybe I just realized that, I uh that, I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's it's a lot harder to transition into something completely new.
Speaker 1: And the fact that is, I I still you know,
Speaker 1: I like sports and and I've I've talked with Jeff
Speaker 1: a lot about this. Actually, Um, Jeff and I have
Speaker 1: had a lot of discussions and he has just great
Speaker 1: because he has he has strong opinions about things. He
Speaker 1: may not agree with them, but he's going to give
Speaker 1: you his opinions. Yes, yes he will. Um, Rufus again,
Speaker 1: Sorry about my voice. I can't thank you enough. Um again,
Speaker 1: Bet the process is the name of the podcast. Congratulations,
Speaker 1: I know you're engaged. We talked about that last time.
Speaker 1: Congratulations in advance on your upcoming wedding and more than anything, man, UM,
Speaker 1: so glad to hear that you and your your bride
Speaker 1: to be are doing well after testing positive. Hopefully her
Speaker 1: test is negative today and all goes well there. Man,
Speaker 1: Thanks so much, Rufus girl, thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 1: I always will always enjoy talking to you, likewise at
Speaker 1: rupus peabody on Twitter. By the way,