WEBVTT - Fantasy Sports & Betting - Lab 126 0:00:03.680 --> 0:00:09.200 I'm t T and I'm Zakiah and this is Dope Labs. 0:00:11.360 --> 0:00:14.600 Welcome to Dope Labs, a weekly podcast that mixes hardcore 0:00:14.680 --> 0:00:17.599 science with pop culture and a healthy dose of friendship. 0:00:21.840 --> 0:00:25.239 It's Super Bowl Sunday, Oh yes, and I feel like 0:00:25.280 --> 0:00:28.360 it's highly anticipated by a lot of folks, not necessarily me, 0:00:28.720 --> 0:00:31.720 but I am excited for the halftime show. I can't 0:00:31.720 --> 0:00:34.480 say that, yes, bad bunny, Yes, fresh off the heels 0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:38.440 of a Grammy win a year. Oh, It's it's up, 0:00:38.520 --> 0:00:40.920 It's up, It's up. It feels like even if the 0:00:40.920 --> 0:00:42.920 super Bowl isn't for you, it's still for you, like 0:00:42.960 --> 0:00:45.479 if you like the ads, or you're just there for 0:00:45.520 --> 0:00:47.760 the buffalo chicken dip at the party, or even if 0:00:47.760 --> 0:00:48.680 you're just making it alone. 0:00:48.760 --> 0:00:48.960 You know. 0:00:50.120 --> 0:00:52.760 I feel like this year, though, people are already talking 0:00:52.760 --> 0:00:54.880 about the bets who they're betting on, right, and look, 0:00:54.880 --> 0:00:57.480 I just don't remember that as much from the past. Honestly, 0:00:57.640 --> 0:00:59.640 I remember. I don't remember any of that. And it 0:00:59.680 --> 0:01:02.960 feels like the whole betting thing has is like not 0:01:03.120 --> 0:01:06.000 new because people always been betting, but like so in 0:01:06.040 --> 0:01:08.520 your face, that feels like no recent thing, Like I 0:01:08.560 --> 0:01:12.119 even just saw that Kendall Jenner put a million dollars 0:01:12.120 --> 0:01:14.920 on the Patriots. Like, when do we know what the 0:01:14.959 --> 0:01:17.440 celebrities are doing? I know Drake always says every year 0:01:17.560 --> 0:01:20.400 who he always is, but I mean, it just feels 0:01:20.440 --> 0:01:23.920 like so in your face these days. And I think 0:01:24.000 --> 0:01:26.000 because it feels so in your face, you know me, 0:01:26.160 --> 0:01:29.720 I'm like, let's pull out our magnifying glass. I am 0:01:29.840 --> 0:01:32.200 curious about it. So let's go ahead and jump right 0:01:32.240 --> 0:01:39.160 into the recitation. What do we know? Okay? I think 0:01:39.200 --> 0:01:42.920 the first thing that we know is that sports bring 0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:46.840 us together, Like sports is one of the great uniters. 0:01:47.160 --> 0:01:50.600 Whether you have rival teams or you are supporting the 0:01:50.640 --> 0:01:54.720 same team, people love using sports to bring them together. 0:01:55.160 --> 0:01:57.320 We also know that there's a lot of money in sports, 0:01:57.320 --> 0:01:59.600 particularly fantasy sports. Oh my gosh. 0:01:59.680 --> 0:01:59.920 Yes. 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:03.120 In twenty twenty four, the market was estimated at over 0:02:03.280 --> 0:02:07.120 twenty four million dollars and it's projected to reach over 0:02:07.280 --> 0:02:11.560 fifty five million in twenty thirty. That's huge. I need 0:02:11.600 --> 0:02:14.040 to put my little coins over there, because that feels 0:02:14.080 --> 0:02:16.280 like a lot of growth. And that growth is not 0:02:16.360 --> 0:02:19.400 just limited to fantasy but it also extends to sports 0:02:19.440 --> 0:02:23.120 betting and even prediction markets. Now that gets us right 0:02:23.160 --> 0:02:25.640 up against what we want to write, because that's the 0:02:25.680 --> 0:02:28.400 limit of the things that I do know. So I 0:02:28.440 --> 0:02:31.000 want to know what's the difference between everything, Like I 0:02:31.080 --> 0:02:35.560 hear these words fantasy betting, prediction markets, Like what is 0:02:35.600 --> 0:02:39.000 the difference between all of this? Yeah, like where's the 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:41.720 best Exactly when does it go from fantasy to being 0:02:41.720 --> 0:02:45.960 a bet or bet to being fantasy? Right? Because I've 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:48.680 been seeing a lot of players in different leagues. NBA 0:02:48.720 --> 0:02:51.799 has had some controversy, but other these too and their 0:02:51.840 --> 0:02:55.200 players have been like tied up in gambling or sports betting, 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:56.800 And I'm like, is this something we need to keep 0:02:56.840 --> 0:02:58.960 our eye on? Right? And then it also feels like 0:02:59.000 --> 0:03:04.080 sports betting is everywhere. I see ads for fan duel 0:03:04.360 --> 0:03:08.920 and DraftKings, and I'm not their target audience. I don't 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:12.359 think because I don't know the first thing about it 0:03:12.680 --> 0:03:16.240 that it's everywhere. I mean, even when they're the sports 0:03:16.280 --> 0:03:19.000 casters are doing their thing, they're talking about the betting, 0:03:19.600 --> 0:03:23.880 Like how has the rise of legalized betting changed sports 0:03:24.000 --> 0:03:26.000 culture and media? I want to know, like what the 0:03:26.040 --> 0:03:29.400 impact is now that it's everywhere? And you know, I 0:03:29.440 --> 0:03:31.560 think we have just the right person to answer those 0:03:31.639 --> 0:03:37.240 questions for us. So let's jump into the dissection. Today's 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:39.080 expert is Jess Bryant. 0:03:39.560 --> 0:03:42.240 Just Brian. I'm senior editor in Fantasy Sports and Betting 0:03:42.280 --> 0:03:42.920 at the Athletic. 0:03:43.400 --> 0:03:45.360 Now, Jess, we're excited to talk to you because t 0:03:45.480 --> 0:03:47.120 T I did pickskin pick them? But have you ever 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:51.760 done fantasy sports pigskin pick them? No, I've never done 0:03:51.840 --> 0:03:55.400 fantasy sports. Never. Yeah. Back in grad school, Bj, the 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:57.120 guy who used to sit behind me was like, you 0:03:57.120 --> 0:03:59.200 can participate in this fantasy sports league with us. All 0:03:59.240 --> 0:04:00.600 you do is pick the win. So I never made 0:04:00.640 --> 0:04:03.160 a full team. Oh, I just picked who I thought 0:04:03.160 --> 0:04:05.880 would win out of the matchups each week. Okay, that 0:04:05.920 --> 0:04:08.840 sounds simple enough, Jess. I mean that's my extent of 0:04:08.840 --> 0:04:11.440 fantasy sports. So does that count? 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:15.080 I would say, I would say your pigskin pick and 0:04:15.120 --> 0:04:18.839 falls into the category of fantasy sports because. 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:19.119 You are picking. 0:04:19.160 --> 0:04:21.560 I don't know if you had a pool, did you 0:04:21.600 --> 0:04:22.360 have money. 0:04:22.120 --> 0:04:24.000 Involved in your pigskin? 0:04:25.240 --> 0:04:28.840 Okay, yeah, I mean that's that is one that I 0:04:28.880 --> 0:04:31.400 was really right on the line. And so are the 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:34.800 March Madness brackets, which for us at the Athletic are 0:04:35.279 --> 0:04:38.200 some of our biggest stories and clicks are just on 0:04:38.800 --> 0:04:40.440 the bracket sheet download. 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:42.480 It qualifies it as. 0:04:42.520 --> 0:04:45.560 Fantasy, but it isn't traditional fantasy sports, which are more 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:50.200 rooted in players often than teams. But yeah, it's kind 0:04:50.200 --> 0:04:52.240 of on the line between fantasy and betting. I would say, 0:04:52.279 --> 0:04:56.320 I think fantasy typically you're thinking of a traditional twelve 0:04:56.360 --> 0:05:00.479 team league in any given sport, where you're drafting a 0:05:00.600 --> 0:05:03.719 roster of those individual players. That's what people think of 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:05.600 when they think of fantasy sports. I would say, you're 0:05:05.600 --> 0:05:08.760 still a rookie with that experience, but or at least 0:05:08.800 --> 0:05:11.440 maybe a second year player or something you know early 0:05:11.560 --> 0:05:12.400 in your career. 0:05:12.720 --> 0:05:16.160 I think my question kind of piggybacks off of that one. 0:05:16.360 --> 0:05:20.279 Now you are participating in fantasy sports, what are you 0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:24.320 doing week to week? Like what skills are you looking for? 0:05:24.480 --> 0:05:27.400 And like what does that look like, you know, from 0:05:27.560 --> 0:05:28.279 game to game. 0:05:29.240 --> 0:05:30.680 I want to first say you can do as little 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:32.760 or as much as you want, and you don't even 0:05:32.800 --> 0:05:34.920 have to have twelve teams. Like, if you have six 0:05:34.960 --> 0:05:36.840 friends that want to play, you can start a league 0:05:36.920 --> 0:05:41.240 on any platform, Yahoo, ESPN, Sleeper. For the people who 0:05:41.320 --> 0:05:44.000 are a little bit more experienced in it, week to 0:05:44.040 --> 0:05:45.760 week is a lot of research, and a lot of 0:05:45.760 --> 0:05:49.920 people pay premium subscriptions to various websites to do that. 0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:52.920 So Fantasy pros is one that has a lot of 0:05:53.000 --> 0:05:57.520 data and information and consensus rankings. And then we at 0:05:57.520 --> 0:06:00.200 the Athletic have Jake Seely's our ranker, but we also 0:06:00.279 --> 0:06:02.839 have a lot of fantasy experts in the space, and 0:06:02.920 --> 0:06:07.960 you're really researching different stat lines, matchup ratings. 0:06:08.839 --> 0:06:10.279 If it's football, because. 0:06:10.080 --> 0:06:11.880 We're at the end of football season, who is the 0:06:12.000 --> 0:06:15.760 quarterback playing, who are the coverage matchups? Is it a 0:06:15.839 --> 0:06:19.400 given team good against tight ends or wide receivers particularly, 0:06:19.480 --> 0:06:21.799 are they good at the pass rush? Do they stop 0:06:21.839 --> 0:06:22.640 the run well? 0:06:23.160 --> 0:06:23.680 Part one? 0:06:23.800 --> 0:06:26.240 And then like part two, you're looking at once you're 0:06:26.440 --> 0:06:28.599 say four weeks into the season. You can find trends 0:06:28.640 --> 0:06:31.599 with players and how they're playing and what types of 0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:35.240 matchups they're more likely or less likely to do well. 0:06:35.400 --> 0:06:37.880 So there's a lot of research that can go into it. 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:39.600 And then a lot of fantasy folks that are called 0:06:39.600 --> 0:06:43.400 themselves fantasy experts, who are fantasy experts have multiple teams 0:06:43.680 --> 0:06:46.640 they're playing against experts. A lot of them have their 0:06:46.680 --> 0:06:50.680 own projection models. If they don't have their own projection models. 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:53.840 They're at least adapting someone else's oftentimes to see what 0:06:53.920 --> 0:06:54.480 they think. 0:06:55.080 --> 0:06:59.000 If you want to win, basically you have to have 0:06:59.040 --> 0:07:04.520 a part time job. I mean, you told me the minimum, 0:07:04.520 --> 0:07:06.600 But if you're really in this thing to win, you 0:07:06.680 --> 0:07:09.760 got to find somebody that's ranking or some model or 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:11.640 you know, you have to have this information. You have 0:07:11.760 --> 0:07:14.600 to collect the data, you have to analyze it. I'm 0:07:14.600 --> 0:07:19.920 sorry it's giving sciencey for some of this, yes, and 0:07:19.960 --> 0:07:22.600 so I'm curious though, because as much as people say 0:07:22.720 --> 0:07:25.520 they hate math, I'm like, this is giving a lot 0:07:25.520 --> 0:07:30.800 of statistical things I'm curious about, Like what makes people 0:07:30.840 --> 0:07:33.440 stick with fantasy year after year? Like, I know you've 0:07:33.480 --> 0:07:36.520 done some stories just that follow people who are in 0:07:36.520 --> 0:07:38.200 a fantasy sports, but I'm like, this is a lot 0:07:38.200 --> 0:07:41.200 of work. Why are people continuing to show up and 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:41.600 do this? 0:07:42.520 --> 0:07:47.360 Yeah, I mean, I think the most basic reason is community. 0:07:47.360 --> 0:07:50.560 A lot of people are playing against their friends or coworkers, 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:55.920 or even if they are in more cemented leagues, people 0:07:55.960 --> 0:07:57.920 that they have met randomly, but I have played with 0:07:57.960 --> 0:08:01.200 for a number of years. I think the community aspect 0:08:01.520 --> 0:08:04.239 is what keeps people coming back. I've talked to groups 0:08:04.280 --> 0:08:06.400 of people who have started leagues just because they want 0:08:06.400 --> 0:08:09.680 to talk to their friends. More so, a group of 0:08:09.720 --> 0:08:12.040 women who did not know like people in their life 0:08:12.200 --> 0:08:15.200 liked sports, but they didn't really enjoy sports. But they 0:08:15.200 --> 0:08:18.040 were all good friends who lived across the country, went 0:08:18.080 --> 0:08:20.679 to college together, wanted to stay in touch. The group 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:22.440 chats weren't working, and they're like, what if we just 0:08:22.440 --> 0:08:25.920 start this fantasy football league, you know? And that was 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:28.600 their way of like all season, they're texting back and forth, 0:08:28.600 --> 0:08:29.760 they're being competitive. 0:08:29.880 --> 0:08:30.679 That was a league. 0:08:30.680 --> 0:08:32.960 I think that was free and it was only six people. 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:35.360 So again, you don't have to have a lot of 0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:37.640 people to play fantasy. You don't have to play for money. 0:08:37.720 --> 0:08:40.400 But what if you actually do like sports and you're 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:43.880 super competitive and you are following all the teams, like 0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:45.600 I have a cousin in mind, I have a husband 0:08:45.600 --> 0:08:46.000 in mind. 0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:52.280 If you are a sports fan, it adds another level 0:08:52.360 --> 0:08:55.400 to the game. So if you think about watching a 0:08:55.400 --> 0:08:58.200 football game and maybe the score is like seven to 0:08:58.280 --> 0:09:00.440 zero at halftime and it feels kind of like a 0:09:00.480 --> 0:09:04.160 boring game with very little movement, if you're invested in 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:06.840 a player in that game, the second half is still 0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:09.520 very meaningful to you you know, and how that player 0:09:09.679 --> 0:09:12.080 plays is meaningful to you. So I think once people 0:09:12.200 --> 0:09:16.320 do get into it, they enjoy that they're able to 0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:19.400 watch multiple games and those games become more meaningful, and 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:21.800 then they become a bigger fan of like the sport 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:23.959 and not just their team. And I think that's another 0:09:24.000 --> 0:09:27.920 reason people come back outside of the competitive nature. And 0:09:27.960 --> 0:09:32.080 then obviously experts who do use it as a career 0:09:32.240 --> 0:09:35.680 or sometimes part time, sometimes full time. I know somebody 0:09:35.679 --> 0:09:39.160 who left a freelance writing job to enter a high 0:09:39.160 --> 0:09:41.640 stakes fantasy basketball draft. 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:43.000 What's the winnings? 0:09:43.800 --> 0:09:46.680 So I don't want to be exact on this, but 0:09:46.800 --> 0:09:49.160 my memory is that it was a sixty thousand dollars 0:09:49.320 --> 0:09:52.720 entry fee for this particular person, and then the winnings 0:09:53.160 --> 0:09:56.920 can be over a million because he plays with a 0:09:57.040 --> 0:10:00.679 larger league and more people and more experts. So he 0:10:00.720 --> 0:10:06.360 and another person teamed up to run this fantasy basketball team. 0:10:06.760 --> 0:10:11.120 And it's so much work, so they are doing it 0:10:11.200 --> 0:10:14.000 full time, committing their resources and like you said, doing 0:10:14.040 --> 0:10:15.840 a lot of math and a lot of research. 0:10:17.120 --> 0:10:19.480 All this makes me think of Moneyball. Have y'all seen 0:10:19.480 --> 0:10:20.600 that movie? 0:10:21.320 --> 0:10:23.240 Oh my gosh, I did a long time ago. 0:10:23.480 --> 0:10:27.520 So it's about a baseball team. It's about the Oakland Athletics, 0:10:27.559 --> 0:10:30.840 and they were struggling and then they hired somebody on 0:10:31.600 --> 0:10:35.240 to do like all of these statistics about like which pictures, 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:37.240 all these things like that, and then they were able 0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:40.040 to you know, course correct and ended up doing really well. 0:10:40.720 --> 0:10:43.200 But it was like a brand new strategy. So I 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:45.439 guess that impacts like how people would be able to 0:10:45.480 --> 0:10:48.440 bet if all of a sudden you have this pivot 0:10:48.440 --> 0:10:52.080 in how well your team is doing. But if we're 0:10:52.120 --> 0:10:58.160 thinking of fantasy and gambling, do those circles just overlap? 0:10:58.280 --> 0:11:04.240 It's fantasymbling is gambling fantasy? What is the distinction between 0:11:04.360 --> 0:11:04.640 the two? 0:11:05.600 --> 0:11:06.160 By nature? 0:11:06.200 --> 0:11:10.800 If you're entering money and then hoping to win, that's gambling. 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:14.880 But when you enter in fantasy, you're entering against other people, 0:11:14.960 --> 0:11:16.920 and you don't have to have like the best players. 0:11:16.960 --> 0:11:20.800 You just have to have the players that are relatively 0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:24.080 the best, like relatively the best lineup. But in betting, 0:11:24.120 --> 0:11:27.720 you're not competing against others. When you're betting, you're playing 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:31.640 against the house. They're statistical models, their algorithms, their proprietary 0:11:31.720 --> 0:11:36.520 systems are incredible. I mean, fantasy players could look at 0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:42.679 betting sites at MGM, DraftKings, FanDuel and see what the 0:11:42.720 --> 0:11:45.120 lines are and what some of the player proposition bets 0:11:45.160 --> 0:11:48.680 are and actually probably help inform their fantasy lineup. But 0:11:49.240 --> 0:11:51.360 you know, the house does all of this research to win, 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:56.280 so you're already at a disadvantage, right, because they're going 0:11:56.320 --> 0:11:59.560 to win. That's why they're multimillion dollar businesses, whereas in 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:03.360 fantasy is still I think gambling, but with I don't know, 0:12:03.400 --> 0:12:05.480 with a little bit more level of a playing field 0:12:05.640 --> 0:12:08.240 and yeah, a different overall strategy. 0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:26.079 Do players pay attention to their fantasy stuff? Because I 0:12:26.080 --> 0:12:28.240 feel like this would affect myself a Steve. If somebody 0:12:28.360 --> 0:12:31.880 was like, get Tt off that team, you need to 0:12:31.880 --> 0:12:36.040 put Zaki in as quarterback. TT sucks, I'm like, oh 0:12:36.080 --> 0:12:36.520 my god. 0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:40.679 Yeah, and I think there are huge problems with it. 0:12:41.640 --> 0:12:46.040 So players pay attention on accident. A lot of times, 0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:48.640 if they don't do well or if they're injured, they 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:51.920 might hear from fantasy players even more so better. 0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:53.920 A lot of them don't love it. 0:12:54.360 --> 0:12:58.440 Because the value isn't placed on them as like a 0:12:58.520 --> 0:13:01.920 human right, which they would love to be humanized more. 0:13:02.160 --> 0:13:07.040 In sports, each player we typically dehumanize them and Myriya 0:13:07.040 --> 0:13:10.360 out of ways, but so it kind of dehumanizes them, 0:13:10.360 --> 0:13:12.400 and when they're injured, it's about, oh, who can we 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:15.880 replace this person with, not like can you imagine. 0:13:15.480 --> 0:13:16.120 What will soon? 0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:22.160 Like right, I think they're often paying attention out of 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:25.520 like self preservation and responding to how the fantasy sports 0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:26.440 have impacted the game. 0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:29.080 When you were talking about the auction league, I was like, 0:13:29.320 --> 0:13:33.640 this sounds terrible. Valuing people at different mouths and putting 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:34.839 a team together. 0:13:34.600 --> 0:13:37.400 When we write or and when I edit, myself and 0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:40.240 the folks on our editorial staff are always trying to 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:45.439 veer away from like who do you own on your team, 0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:48.840 like just making sure the language doesn't own or purchase 0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:52.920 or buy or you know, to your point about auction leagues, 0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:54.720 like we do try to pay attention to the language 0:13:54.720 --> 0:13:59.760 of that, but inevitably, I you know, like you're saying 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:05.040 auction links, there's this purchasing aspect and evaluation of people 0:14:05.480 --> 0:14:06.360 into dollar amounts. 0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:07.120 Yeah, that's real. 0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:10.640 This was making me think a little bit about this 0:14:10.800 --> 0:14:14.120 control element, which it feels like a lot of this 0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:16.080 is the ability to control who's Like when we were 0:14:16.080 --> 0:14:19.200 talking about replacing people, if they get injured. And it's 0:14:19.240 --> 0:14:21.880 also making me think about that book by Christopher Mems 0:14:22.000 --> 0:14:25.080 Arriving Today. Arriving Today, there's a book by Christopher Mems 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:28.480 who writes for the Journal, and it makes me think 0:14:28.520 --> 0:14:32.600 about like the changing workforce, where we were trying to 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:35.120 get people to perform against metrics and to be faster, 0:14:35.440 --> 0:14:37.720 and it feels like a little bit of that is 0:14:37.800 --> 0:14:39.200 in the fantasy world. 0:14:39.520 --> 0:14:41.720 Oh yeah, I think there's not a lot out on 0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:46.520 some of these human elements around fantasy sports, or like 0:14:46.600 --> 0:14:49.360 I said, like the humanization of players. I mean a 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:51.600 lot of it is like the illusion of it, because 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:54.520 you have no say in these players' lives. They are 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:58.080 not working for you. But it gives the illusion of control. 0:14:58.120 --> 0:15:00.520 And that's one of the reasons people like fantasy sports 0:15:00.560 --> 0:15:03.600 compared to betting, is like it gives you the illusion 0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:06.000 of managing a team. It gives you the illusion of 0:15:06.440 --> 0:15:09.480 fairness and like if you do well enough, then you, 0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:13.320 as a good manager, will succeed, and that can give 0:15:13.400 --> 0:15:17.200 people confidence or maybe it can give people arrogance. But 0:15:17.640 --> 0:15:22.200 certainly I think in folks minds, they are managing a team, 0:15:22.280 --> 0:15:26.240 they have control. That's what inspires them in some ways 0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:27.520 or keeps them playing. 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:29.600 I think in. 0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:33.880 Sports, across sports and all arenas, we have all of 0:15:33.920 --> 0:15:38.520 these issues of control and workforce when you look at ownerships, 0:15:38.920 --> 0:15:43.720 racial demographics, players, racial demographics, et cetera, and thinking about 0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:47.400 how the owners and managers make decisions the rules that 0:15:47.480 --> 0:15:49.720 they have to follow versus the rules that players have 0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:54.360 to follow. Even in betting, the leagues obviously make a 0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:57.720 lot of money off of betting, a lot of money 0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:01.960 off of betting, and yet are penalized for betting players 0:16:01.960 --> 0:16:05.200 who have less money than those corporations. And of course 0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:07.360 you have to keep legitimacy in the game, and you 0:16:07.400 --> 0:16:09.240 have to keep your game legitimate, and so there have 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:12.720 to be repercussions I suppose for betting. But it is 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:15.960 a sort of this idea of like, we can profit 0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:16.960 from it, but you can't. 0:16:17.240 --> 0:16:18.480 How do they make that money? 0:16:18.720 --> 0:16:23.040 Advertisements? You know, a lot of it's advertisement sponsorships. That 0:16:23.080 --> 0:16:26.280 the betting houses do have money, a lot of it, 0:16:26.320 --> 0:16:28.880 and they do inject it into the sports space because 0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:33.200 that's where you know, primary betting happens or on happens. 0:16:33.360 --> 0:16:36.160 Okay, we've talked fantasy and we've talked to sports betting 0:16:36.400 --> 0:16:40.600 fantasy is basically being relatively better than the other people 0:16:40.640 --> 0:16:45.360 you're competing against, and betting is being absolutely right against 0:16:45.440 --> 0:16:50.000 a well researched organization. Betting and fantasy are different, but 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:53.480 the legislation has them tied together. When I was looking 0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:58.520 at the connection between fantasy and basically sports betting, particularly 0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:00.680 like on your phone, I was looking in two thousand 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:04.040 and six the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act, which was 0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:08.639 targeting unlawful Internet gambling, but that explicitly carved out a 0:17:08.680 --> 0:17:11.760 space for fantasy sports, and that said that you have 0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:14.399 to be using skills. You've already defined what skills are 0:17:14.400 --> 0:17:17.919 required for fantasy sports. I don't have them. I do 0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:19.920 have them, but I don't know that I've used them. 0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:22.840 I've used them to predict experimental results. 0:17:22.920 --> 0:17:26.639 Not I'm just about to say you have them, and 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:30.879 I'm sure, actually you could create an amazing model, you know, 0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:31.960 and I'd love to see that. 0:17:32.840 --> 0:17:36.000 Yeah, but I but I'm curious. You know, it feels 0:17:36.040 --> 0:17:39.280 like sports betting was kind of dampered down there, but 0:17:39.320 --> 0:17:41.960 then we had fan duel and DraftKings, and now it 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:45.240 just feels like sports betting has gotten so much bigger, 0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:46.480 And I'm like how did that happen? 0:17:46.600 --> 0:17:52.080 Yeah, so, states historically have regulated sports betting and the 0:17:52.119 --> 0:17:54.679 control of like sports betting, legislation is in the state's 0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:59.080 hands until recent so we're at California and Texas, it's 0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:01.880 illegal to beout on sports as an example. 0:18:02.400 --> 0:18:04.240 But prediction markets, which. 0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:07.199 Are new to sports, I mean, they've existed for a 0:18:07.280 --> 0:18:11.439 very long time, over a century, but lately there have 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:13.640 been startups. I don't know if you've heard of Calshi 0:18:13.720 --> 0:18:17.400 or poly market. Yes, so Polymarket and Calsha are two 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:20.480 new prediction market apps that have launched and they're doing 0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:24.880 incredibly well. And in December mid and late December, fan 0:18:24.960 --> 0:18:29.160 Duel and DraftKings ended up also creating a prediction markets 0:18:29.240 --> 0:18:32.439 app that is separate from the typical app, and really 0:18:32.440 --> 0:18:36.760 they're trying to target Texas and California. Those are two 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:40.240 big markets that don't allow sports betting. Whereas sports betting 0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:45.000 is monitored by the statewide legislation, these prediction markets, which 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:50.000 are different because like fantasy, you're actually only competing against 0:18:50.119 --> 0:18:53.200 other individuals, but you could be competing against super users 0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:56.119 you know which there are, but you're still competing against 0:18:56.160 --> 0:18:59.439 other individuals, and the companies make their money off of 0:18:59.480 --> 0:19:04.280 transaction fees and commissions versus the actual cash that's invested, 0:19:04.760 --> 0:19:07.800 and those are run by the federal government. Donald Trump 0:19:07.840 --> 0:19:10.520 Junior is an advisor on the board of both Calshi 0:19:10.720 --> 0:19:14.159 and poly Market, And like I said, the prediction markets 0:19:14.160 --> 0:19:17.000 are controlled by the federal government versus the state government. 0:19:17.400 --> 0:19:19.919 Is that even legal? Well, first aside out to the 0:19:19.920 --> 0:19:23.439 one degree removed from power with you know Trump Junior 0:19:23.840 --> 0:19:25.960 being on the board of both of those companies. But 0:19:26.040 --> 0:19:30.520 are these sites legal and does prediction market betting have regulations? 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:35.560 So these are legal and there's some regulation, but not much. 0:19:35.600 --> 0:19:41.720 You can pretty much bet live on anything from you know, 0:19:42.040 --> 0:19:45.399 which team will win a game, or whether a certain 0:19:45.400 --> 0:19:48.320 player will have a certain amount of receiving yards, or 0:19:49.400 --> 0:19:53.280 will the Seahawks win the Super Bowl too? Will Hamnet 0:19:53.280 --> 0:19:54.080 win Best picture? 0:19:54.320 --> 0:19:58.080 Right? I feel like one day prediction markets were just everywhere, 0:19:58.160 --> 0:20:00.560 though where did they come I'm from. 0:20:00.680 --> 0:20:04.320 They became popular or more known during the twenty twenty 0:20:04.320 --> 0:20:07.840 four election because you were able to bet on the 0:20:07.880 --> 0:20:08.919 result of the election. 0:20:22.920 --> 0:20:25.040 So these prediction markets have come up quite a bit 0:20:25.440 --> 0:20:27.560 for us, and just in some things we've been working on. 0:20:27.680 --> 0:20:31.800 We just interviewed a music critic and cultural writer Sidney Madden, 0:20:31.920 --> 0:20:34.280 and she was talking to us about the Grammys, and 0:20:34.359 --> 0:20:38.240 she kept saying, don't bet based on what I'm saying. 0:20:38.880 --> 0:20:42.080 And I was like, are people really betting on the Grammys? 0:20:42.080 --> 0:20:44.400 Like I might say to teach, you know, like I 0:20:44.440 --> 0:20:48.160 bet this person's not gonna win. But she was like, no, 0:20:48.200 --> 0:20:50.000 people are betting on these things. And so it seems 0:20:50.040 --> 0:20:51.920 like the prediction market is the place where you can 0:20:51.960 --> 0:20:56.760 bet on these types of outcomes. I remember even recently, 0:20:56.840 --> 0:20:59.840 like people were betting on whether or not your president 0:20:59.880 --> 0:21:02.760 was going to say certain phrases in his speeches and 0:21:02.840 --> 0:21:06.159 how many times. Pew Research in the past couple of 0:21:06.240 --> 0:21:09.800 months just released this survey data asking people like, what 0:21:09.840 --> 0:21:12.280 do they think about sports betting? How many people are 0:21:12.280 --> 0:21:15.480 betting on sports? Twenty two percent of people they surveyed 0:21:15.520 --> 0:21:17.840 are betting on sports. That's at least one in five. 0:21:19.760 --> 0:21:23.400 But interestingly, forty three percent of people that they surveyed 0:21:23.600 --> 0:21:25.480 said they think sports betting is not a good thing 0:21:25.520 --> 0:21:30.959 for sports. And I was like, so are those mutually 0:21:30.960 --> 0:21:34.400 exclusively I don't know right, or are you like saying 0:21:34.440 --> 0:21:37.720