Speaker 1: Welcome to five hundred Greatest Songs, a podcast based on
Speaker 1: Rolling Stones, hugely popular, influential and sometimes controversialist. I'm Britney
Speaker 1: Spanis and.
Speaker 2: I'm Rob Sheffield. We're here to shed light on the
Speaker 2: greatest songs ever made and discover what makes them so
Speaker 2: special and what makes them matter throughout history.
Speaker 1: And today's song is none other than Hotline Blank, right, Drake,
Speaker 1: a true classic and I mean obviously of course to
Speaker 1: my twenty one list. This was Drake's debut on the list.
Speaker 1: He came in strong with three songs. Hotline Blink comes
Speaker 1: in at number three seventy three. The other songs are
Speaker 1: hold On, We're Going Home and take Care, both great,
Speaker 1: both perfect songs. But today we're going to talk about
Speaker 1: Hotline Blink because that was like an earth shattering song
Speaker 1: in twenty fifteen. Do you remember a little bit of
Speaker 1: that of that summer and Drake and kind of hearing
Speaker 1: that song for the first time.
Speaker 2: It was such a great song. Hearing here for the
Speaker 2: first time. It was so different from what you would
Speaker 2: have expected from Drake at the time, since he was
Speaker 2: being challenged so much at the time on his rap credentials,
Speaker 2: on his seriousness, and this is how he chooses to respond.
Speaker 2: Is such an incredibly bold, audacious Drake move.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we should talk a little bit about the history
Speaker 1: of Drake leading up to this, because he is his
Speaker 1: careers truly. I mean it's obviously such like a part
Speaker 1: of everything. It was beyond De Grossi as a teen actor,
Speaker 1: then releasing mixtapes and gained signed to Young Money and
Speaker 1: working with Lil Wayne and like being a part of
Speaker 1: that whole crew, which of course was dominating twenty tons rap.
Speaker 1: I remember, best I ever had was mind blowing to
Speaker 1: see the kid from De Grossi on you know, hearing
Speaker 1: him on the radio and being like he's rapping now,
Speaker 1: Jimmy from De Grossi is rapping now, And I mean
Speaker 1: he just like I mean out the gate, like he
Speaker 1: was already so popular. He had such an impact on
Speaker 1: younger audiences almost immediately, I feel like, and also because
Speaker 1: I grew up watching De Grossi, like that was a
Speaker 1: show that's like especially for millennials, like it was on
Speaker 1: TV constantly, Like there was no Sadder Morning where De
Speaker 1: Grassei wasn't playing in sort of marathon form on PBS
Speaker 1: or something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was amazing. What was your first Drake experience
Speaker 2: because you were Drake fan really early.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it was best I ever had. But
Speaker 1: also like that song, I feel like set such like
Speaker 1: a precedent for what would come next because it is
Speaker 1: such a such a boy band pop song, you know,
Speaker 1: like so pants, like chilling with your hair tide like
Speaker 1: you know, like no makeup on all that stuff is
Speaker 1: like such like a you know, one direction, like little
Speaker 1: things type of song moment. So I feel like it
Speaker 1: was such a good precedent for kind of him catering
Speaker 1: to the women who love him and love his music.
Speaker 2: A lifelong passion for him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but that was that was the first introduction, and
Speaker 1: I feel like he was already kind of straddling that,
Speaker 1: like trying to be a tough rapper, but also like
Speaker 1: having this kind of you know, pop sensitivity to him
Speaker 1: where he really did want to be a pop star
Speaker 1: and did want to like make and still you know,
Speaker 1: this is still a big part of him, like he
Speaker 1: wants to be someone who makes like pop music for
Speaker 1: everyone and looks up to a lot of big pop
Speaker 1: stars and sees himself in competition with like the Beyonces
Speaker 1: and Taylor Swifts of the world, like He's always like
Speaker 1: his competition is not just jay Z or Kanye, even
Speaker 1: though he also is competing with them too. He didn't
Speaker 1: invent sort of being a rapper who sings too right.
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, we heard it like jot Role
Speaker 1: and like Nelly in the early two thousands, and that
Speaker 1: was such a part of them.
Speaker 2: Drake just had his unique personality there. He was really
Speaker 2: unstressed about things that you would think that other people
Speaker 2: would be stressed about artistically, but he was so confident
Speaker 2: about doing so many things at the same time that
Speaker 2: you really wondered how he got away with doing all these,
Speaker 2: in some ways contradictory things at the same time. There's
Speaker 2: so many Drake songs you'd hear them for the first
Speaker 2: time think I just can't believe somebody's.
Speaker 1: Doing this, and like nothing was the same. Of course,
Speaker 1: headhold on We're Going Home, which I know is your
Speaker 1: vote for the five hundred Great of Songs list, But
Speaker 1: that song, I feel like, really set the precedent of
Speaker 1: how people would kind of have a new understanding an
Speaker 1: image of Drake in their heads.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and it was such a massive song. I remember
Speaker 2: really fun October afternoon that year, I was walking and
Speaker 2: I had my headphones on. I was listening to the
Speaker 2: radio in New York and I thought, you know, every
Speaker 2: station is playing this Drake song. I wonder if I
Speaker 2: can spend the entire afternoon just listening to this one
Speaker 2: song from station to station, And it was absurdly easy.
Speaker 2: Every moment I had to spin the dial, it was
Speaker 2: starting on another station. It was a continuous flow of
Speaker 2: that on New York radio. And that was very typical
Speaker 2: for that whole fall.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean his like, his voice sounds great on it.
Speaker 1: I mean it's just him singing like it's so it
Speaker 1: was so unlike anything for a rapper to do at
Speaker 1: that time, especially a male rapper to test out at
Speaker 1: that time, and I mean nothing was the same, and
Speaker 1: that song really dominated things for a couple of years,
Speaker 1: and then twenty fifteen is sort of a whole new peek.
Speaker 1: If you're reading this, it's too late. Surprise dropped in
Speaker 1: the beginning of the year, which was like post Beyonce
Speaker 1: and also like a lot of artists were attempting to
Speaker 1: do the surprise drops at that time, and very few
Speaker 1: were doing it effectively. But it was a big moment
Speaker 1: for Drake to be able to surprise drop something and
Speaker 1: then actually it kind of becomes a conversation for longer
Speaker 1: than forty eight hours and really like made people realize, oh, yes,
Speaker 1: this is like the biggest artist of this generation right now.
Speaker 1: Like he's like really like in charge of everything. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's like I love that mixtape.
Speaker 2: I love it so much, And it's so funny that
Speaker 2: it was not just the surprise that he's surprise released
Speaker 2: an album, but that it was such a surprise move
Speaker 2: for him that he was so tough on it and
Speaker 2: so street on it and going for one style of
Speaker 2: what he did, yeah, and just focusing on that.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, those are some of my probably my
Speaker 1: favorite Drake songs still, Like I love Madonna on There,
Speaker 1: such a great song. I love that album, yeah Energy.
Speaker 2: I love the one where he's complaining about driving his
Speaker 2: girlfriend to her law school exams through the snow, and
Speaker 2: I'm just like, that is so perfectly on brand Drake.
Speaker 2: I mean, aside from the whole thing he's complaining about
Speaker 2: the snow and he's driving to her law board examinations
Speaker 2: in Toronto, it's just a very strange sort of complaint
Speaker 2: to make, and yet he is he's so on brand Drake,
Speaker 2: even when he's adopting this really street running through the
Speaker 2: six with my woes sort of persona.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then he headline Cortello that year and brought
Speaker 1: out Madonna as a guest, which again big deal for
Speaker 1: sort of a kind of someone who is slid bying
Speaker 1: themselves as like the pop star version of themselves while
Speaker 1: also slovilling themselves as like a great rapper and has
Speaker 1: the beef with Meek Mill this year. He starts off
Speaker 1: the summer with back to Back, which was like a
Speaker 1: great diss song. I feel like that song immediately just
Speaker 1: became such a massive hit and was all over the
Speaker 1: clubs and like everywhere. And then just a couple months
Speaker 1: later he comes back with complete polar opposite of back
Speaker 1: to Back with Hotline, which is a perfect song.
Speaker 2: It's a perfect song, It's a perfect song. I know
Speaker 2: that you, like me, are obsessed with the connection between
Speaker 2: Drake and Paul McCartney. Yes, who are the same person
Speaker 2: in so many ways. They have very similar sort of
Speaker 2: mixes of contradictory personality traits. But I think of Hotline,
Speaker 2: bling is such a Paul McCartney song, the one it
Speaker 2: really reminds me of is the Beatles classic for No
Speaker 2: One Yes, And it's a breakup song where Paul McCartney
Speaker 2: is sitting alone in his room thinking about this girl
Speaker 2: who left and he's trying to figure out what went wrong,
Speaker 2: and he's having this conversation with her where he talks
Speaker 2: her out of it and explains why it was such
Speaker 2: a bad idea, was a love that should have lasted years.
Speaker 2: And he's having this argument with her in his head
Speaker 2: and she's totally forgotten him. Someone mentions his name to
Speaker 2: her and she just says, yet he was someone I knew,
Speaker 2: but you know I don't need him. You know it's
Speaker 2: over for her. It's so not over for him. It's
Speaker 2: such a McCartney song for him in the best ways. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I remember, like years ago, I think, on the Music
Speaker 1: Now podcast we were talking about it and I always
Speaker 1: liked the song Drive My Car by the Beatles is
Speaker 1: one of my favorite songs in he re mind. It's
Speaker 1: like such like a Drake song in so many ways.
Speaker 2: It really is. My God, it's a total Drake song.
Speaker 1: Like just like completely obsessed with this girl who like
Speaker 1: really doesn't want him that much, and like it's just
Speaker 1: like you could drive my car. You know you could
Speaker 1: do this and this song, I mean, just the the
Speaker 1: girl in the song is like I want to be
Speaker 1: this girl just generally, like she's all over the world.
Speaker 1: She's like, you know, hanging out with a bunch of
Speaker 1: new friends. She's living a fabulous life. She's I mean,
Speaker 1: everything he's describing is perfect. It's a great it's a
Speaker 1: great existence.
Speaker 2: It's an aspirational breakup song. Yeah, he and he totally knows.
Speaker 2: He's got so much fomo about all the fun that
Speaker 2: she's having without him, And he's totally right. She's having
Speaker 2: the best time of her life. Absolutely nobody on earth
Speaker 2: is having a better time than this girl who got
Speaker 2: away from Drake and is finally wearing less and going
Speaker 2: out more. And he's convinced that somewhere in it there's
Speaker 2: some sort of inner sadness and she still yearns for
Speaker 2: him on some level. And yeah, she so obviously doesn't.
Speaker 1: She's got champagne out on the dance floor, like she's
Speaker 1: not thinking about Drake at all. Aubrey Graham, who.
Speaker 2: What's the status of her passport?
Speaker 1: Pridgin, She's running out of pages, running out of pages,
Speaker 1: Like who doesn't want to be this girl. I mean,
Speaker 1: only Drake can release a hit breakup song where he's
Speaker 1: the loser in the song, yes, and.
Speaker 2: It's so perfect and also it makes women in the
Speaker 2: audience this is what they want to be. They want
Speaker 2: to be the girl who has left Drake and he's
Speaker 2: so miserable and he keeps telling them how much fun
Speaker 2: they're having without him. Yeah, it's kind of perfectly perfectly
Speaker 2: designed that way.
Speaker 1: I feel like that's like such a marker of Drake
Speaker 1: during this period or this like chunk of his career,
Speaker 1: right like from I guess like nothing was the same
Speaker 1: ish era like twenty thirteen, but I mean obviously really
Speaker 1: kind of hits its stride with Hotline Blank and kind
Speaker 1: of goes into the next couple of years with Views
Speaker 1: and Scorpion, where he has these songs that are so
Speaker 1: much for the girls and for his like female audience
Speaker 1: who like need these kind of like great sort of
Speaker 1: anthemic club bangers that he makes where it's still him complaining.
Speaker 1: It's it's like so like only Drake can do this
Speaker 1: where he's the one complaining on the song, and yet
Speaker 1: everything he's complaining about is just like absolutely what I
Speaker 1: would like my life to look like like everything that's
Speaker 1: making him so angry, it's just kind of like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I would like to live like that. I would like
Speaker 1: to have this life. Of all of Drake's exes, they
Speaker 1: seem to have a nice life, they seem to have
Speaker 1: they seem to go to greener pastures in their own existence.
Speaker 2: After this, the entire city of Toronto is a Drake
Speaker 2: X who's having the best time ever. Without him, Toronto
Speaker 2: turns into one big party zone as soon as Drake
Speaker 2: leaves down.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think he just he makes such great
Speaker 1: pop records, like he really and it's one of those
Speaker 1: things where he's never shied away from it. I think
Speaker 1: there's a lot of this idea of like hardness and
Speaker 1: rap and kind of being sort of like leaning into
Speaker 1: that for male rappers specifically, and like I feel like
Speaker 1: he did something where I think he's influenced so much
Speaker 1: of what rap sounds like now, which is like unafraid
Speaker 1: of making really dancy music and unafraid of making things
Speaker 1: that are you know, straddling that line between like Meg
Speaker 1: and The Stallion, where she has like really kind of
Speaker 1: like hard bars on songs that are kind of super
Speaker 1: clubby and meant to be super clubby and are like
Speaker 1: unapologetically pop. He like worked with city girls around this time,
Speaker 1: and they are like queens of that. They're so good
Speaker 1: at doing that where they have these like incredibly really
Speaker 1: really hard songs that are just like excellent rapping from
Speaker 1: them and then just like the best beat you've ever
Speaker 1: heard in your entire life, you know. And he's and
Speaker 1: obviously with him singing on a lot of those songs too,
Speaker 1: like he's doing his own hooks. He's like having these
Speaker 1: like really excellent kind of like pop R and B hooks.
Speaker 1: I mean it came from like, like I think, like
Speaker 1: Trey songs dissed him once and was like, Drake can't sing,
Speaker 1: and he was like, I'll show him, which is like,
Speaker 1: is such a Drake thing? Which is like, well, I
Speaker 1: mean like building the entire like branding of himself for
Speaker 1: years was just like kind of like to piss off
Speaker 1: Trey songs, what.
Speaker 2: A quest unbelievable. Something I love about how hotline bling
Speaker 2: works like that for him is that, like you said,
Speaker 2: this was after his Meek Mill beef and he'd just
Speaker 2: been accused of not being serious enough about hip hop
Speaker 2: and not taking his rap hardness seriously enough, and this
Speaker 2: is how he chooses to respond. Yeah, it's just kind
Speaker 2: of brilliant. It's funny that beef with Meek Mill was
Speaker 2: such an amazing iconic night of hip hop radio, for
Speaker 2: sure in New York. I remember, I was listening to
Speaker 2: funk Maxter Flex. I was in a cab on the
Speaker 2: way to a party, and it actually was so obsessed
Speaker 2: with what was going on in the radio that it
Speaker 2: got to the party and didn't even go in. I
Speaker 2: just walked around in Brooklyn just like listening to this
Speaker 2: rap beef unfold in real time on funk Master Flex,
Speaker 2: And it was just an incredibly exciting, action packed pop
Speaker 2: moment of hip hop as a sort of ongoing real
Speaker 2: time thing. Yeah, And it was so wild that having
Speaker 2: responded from basically responding to something like that, that he
Speaker 2: would go to a song as pop as R and B,
Speaker 2: as Slow Jammy and as forlorn as Hotline Bling is
Speaker 2: something that just really bold move.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it also is such a big thing of
Speaker 1: showing off just how much he understands hip hop, you know,
Speaker 1: like it really does show off how much he understands
Speaker 1: kind of that history and kind of you know, a
Speaker 1: lot of what's made hip hop work and successful is
Speaker 1: like it's dance music, you know, like it's meant to be,
Speaker 1: you know, great dance music, and so you know, I
Speaker 1: think that is just like such a great coup for
Speaker 1: him to kind of come back off of already a
Speaker 1: hit diss record like that song was also having back
Speaker 1: to back and Hotline Bling simultaneously blowing up over the
Speaker 1: course of that year. Like it was. I remember going
Speaker 1: to like clubs and they would play them, like both
Speaker 1: the songs at the same time, you know, like just
Speaker 1: to kind of highlight this like massive year that Drake
Speaker 1: was having. But yeah, I mean just they were kind
Speaker 1: of coexisting as like the two sides of Drake his
Speaker 1: Juckle and Hyde music.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, Holling Bling is so special because it's
Speaker 2: also it's got its own sort of musical personality with
Speaker 2: the sort of seventies Miami soul sound of it.
Speaker 1: Oh, there's been a lot of covers of it, but yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean there's been like, like I love the Rikabadoo
Speaker 1: remix of it. Billie Eilish did like a version of it.
Speaker 1: Justin Bieber did a version which I actually really liked.
Speaker 1: His version of the song I thought that was kind
Speaker 1: of a fun one, and I kind of always always
Speaker 1: liked that they always played with beans sort of each
Speaker 1: other's kind of Toronto pop mirrors in a lot of
Speaker 1: ways over the.
Speaker 2: Years, interestingly linked spiritual twins. Yeah, in some interesting ways.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I thought one of the smartest things Drake has ever
Speaker 1: done is have Justin Bieber Starr and his pop Star video.
Speaker 1: I thought that was the most brilliant casting he's ever done.
Speaker 1: I was like, this is perfect for a song called
Speaker 1: pop Star, Justin Bieber, you know, lip syncing to it. Like,
Speaker 1: I'm like, this is like an actually like perfect little
Speaker 1: little moment from.
Speaker 2: I'm intrigued by the Beyonce Drake combination that because it
Speaker 2: is interesting that, like you said about the ego and
Speaker 2: the self seriousness, whereas I mean, it's just very different
Speaker 2: for her. He is willing to seem silly in a
Speaker 2: way that she wouldn't or you.
Speaker 1: Know, yeah, and I feel like she's just starting to
Speaker 1: be sillier.
Speaker 2: But I also feel like for he and Beyonce, there's
Speaker 2: so much, so much symbiosis that they have yet to
Speaker 2: explore fully.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, even like the song Mine on Beyonce
Speaker 1: self titled Deeply Underrated Tracks for an album, And I
Speaker 1: think they just work really well as duet partners because
Speaker 1: they both kind of straddle that like the hardness and
Speaker 1: the softness very well of both hip hop and R
Speaker 1: and B, and like that's something that they both lean
Speaker 1: into at the same time. I'm kind of surprised that
Speaker 1: they haven't done more over the years, because I think
Speaker 1: they would. They really kind of, like I don't know,
Speaker 1: sort of flourish together in that way. And I really
Speaker 1: kind of I've always really liked their like innership.
Speaker 2: It seems so perfect. Also, what you said about him
Speaker 2: being the ultimate risk taker is so true of her.
Speaker 2: That they're both fearless in a way that you can't
Speaker 2: really imagine anybody else being that fearless together at the
Speaker 2: same time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like the one sort of downfall for Drake,
Speaker 1: and that is like Beyonce's a very good editor. Beyonce
Speaker 1: is very she's very strict with how she puts things out,
Speaker 1: and Drake is not Drake, And I mean, I mean,
Speaker 1: I guess like it's two different kinds of risk takers, right,
Speaker 1: Like Beyonce is like very like virgo calculated of like
Speaker 1: I'm going to be thinking about exactly the risk that
Speaker 1: I'm going to take, and we're going to put in
Speaker 1: all of her effort and we're going to make the
Speaker 1: best house album you've ever heard in your entire life,
Speaker 1: and it's going to be so referential to everything in
Speaker 1: the history of house music. And Drake's like, what if
Speaker 1: I just called up this artist from the scene that
Speaker 1: I like and I try out an accent and sometimes
Speaker 1: it works and sometimes it doesn't, And that's okay.
Speaker 2: Absolutely yes. She is like the concept of quality control
Speaker 2: does not have the same weight for him that it
Speaker 2: does for her. She is so determined to keep her
Speaker 2: flawless track record. She's like, there will never be a
Speaker 2: bad track ever under this brand name. She's absolutely committed
Speaker 2: to that quality control. And he does not worry about
Speaker 2: the hits to Missus Ratio Yeah at all.
Speaker 3: That is just math.
Speaker 2: He does not do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, He's like, if you if you want to hear
Speaker 1: British accent, let me try it real quick. Yes, Like
Speaker 1: let's just see how it works. Like if you're not
Speaker 1: cool with it, we'll move on. Yes, And I'm okay
Speaker 1: with that, Like I think it's it's been for the
Speaker 1: best that He's willing to like try and do that
Speaker 1: because I think that's like made him who he is,
Speaker 1: you know, that's made him so popular, and it's made
Speaker 1: him such like a person who people you know, kind
Speaker 1: of laugh with most of the time most of the time,
Speaker 1: not all the time, but most of the time. And
Speaker 1: he leans into that. He doesn't mind that. I'm wondering
Speaker 1: if there's gonna be more of I feel like the
Speaker 1: heated semi collab I'm Connie as a clap in my
Speaker 1: head because I mean, also, some of those lines are
Speaker 1: so peak peak Drake, but like, but yeah, I feel
Speaker 1: like there has to be there has to be happening
Speaker 1: in the future.
Speaker 2: Absolutely well. They both have the undeniable ear for a classic,
Speaker 2: yeah no, and the hotline bling is I mean, that's
Speaker 2: a song that people will be singing forever, yeah.
Speaker 1: Ear for a classic, and also a great knowledge of history,
Speaker 1: like of music history, Like they both. Drake is so
Speaker 1: good at picking samples, so good at like really you know,
Speaker 1: finding like really great R and B songs to sort
Speaker 1: of integrate into his music and to use and to
Speaker 1: sing along with and you know, make a part of it. Obviously,
Speaker 1: this episode, as probably our listeners can tell much of
Speaker 1: it was recorded prior to the Great Drake Kendrick lamarbef
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty four that involves future and Metro Boomin
Speaker 1: and Jack Antonov randomly and everyone else. I want us
Speaker 1: to kind of revisit a conversation that we had in
Speaker 1: this episode and the conversation that we will be having
Speaker 1: with Jeff in the next segment. I'm curious how you
Speaker 1: think this particular moment between Drake and Kendrick Lamar will
Speaker 1: affect the future of Drake. Will this lower Hotline Bling
Speaker 1: and other Drake songs on the list and future incarnations?
Speaker 1: Will we forget about him altogether? What will happen now
Speaker 1: that all of these diss songs have come out and
Speaker 1: Drake has ostensibly kind of lost in the war between
Speaker 1: Kendrick Lamar.
Speaker 2: We've been talking about Hotline Bling as a moment in
Speaker 2: Drake's long, complex career, an ongoing career, and an ongoing moment.
Speaker 2: We've been talking about him and his rap career and
Speaker 2: what this pop moment means in his rap career. And
Speaker 2: of course, you know, while we're talking about this now
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty four, obviously a lot is going on
Speaker 2: with Drake and his participation in an old school rap beef,
Speaker 2: except none of the old school rap beefs were actually
Speaker 2: like this.
Speaker 1: No rap beef has ever happened this quickly. Yeah, No
Speaker 1: one's ever dropped a song fifteen minutes after someone dropped theirs.
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean, this makes the old like you know,
Speaker 2: South Bronx, Queen's Bad be like you know mc shan,
Speaker 2: that kind of back and forth seem like snail mail
Speaker 2: in comparison. Also, I mean a very strange beef. Honestly,
Speaker 2: I can't think of any hip hop beef that compares
Speaker 2: to this in terms of one very artistic, serious, for
Speaker 2: lack of a better word, rapper who is like very
Speaker 2: much a poet, a complex artist, a winner of a
Speaker 2: Pulitzer Prize versus one who has always been a pop
Speaker 2: entertainer in addition to everything else he is. And we've
Speaker 2: got a Pulitzer Prize winner versus someone who is onto
Speaker 2: grassy Junior High. It's very strange for them to be
Speaker 2: competing on any level, but to have this kind of
Speaker 2: beef is without precedent.
Speaker 1: I mean, and also Kendrick Lamar beating Drake at his
Speaker 1: own game, I mean his song debut at number one.
Speaker 1: I mean all is like all of his songs charted
Speaker 1: and did much better than Drake. And of course the
Speaker 1: thing that Drake has had is incredible chart success. I mean,
Speaker 1: this is someone who's like beating Beatles records. You know,
Speaker 1: He's the person who's like finally kind of broke through
Speaker 1: and beat a lot of those you know, big kind
Speaker 1: of sales and chart records that had not yet been
Speaker 1: broken just in terms of the volume of hits that
Speaker 1: he's had and kind of in that way got beat
Speaker 1: in his own game. I mean again, the timing of
Speaker 1: Hotline Bling was coming after a beef with Meek Mill
Speaker 1: that Drake was having and you know, back to back
Speaker 1: being Drake's diss song which ended up becoming like a
Speaker 1: massive hit, and therefore he won that battle, and Hotline
Speaker 1: Bling sort of further solidifying that by becoming an even
Speaker 1: bigger song. Like I'm wondering, like, is he going to
Speaker 1: try to do that again? Like is he going to
Speaker 1: try to drop in twenty twenty four his new version
Speaker 1: of Hotline Bling that sort of like overtakes the beef
Speaker 1: and kind of goes beyond the dis songs as just
Speaker 1: like a pop hit like could that be his way
Speaker 1: of sort of like kind of secretly side stuffing the
Speaker 1: dissongs by just Drafia, another big pop hit banger. I
Speaker 1: don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't know, Honestly, it's hard to tell because I mean,
Speaker 2: a rap beef is Kendrick's home turf. Yeah, Drake is
Speaker 2: the out of town team and this like he's never
Speaker 2: been the artist that you go to for that. He's
Speaker 2: got more slaps than the Beatles, but like you know,
Speaker 2: the Beatles wouldn't have won a rap beef war with
Speaker 2: Kendrink either, nobody would. But it's not I mean not
Speaker 2: even like Boogey Down Productions versus like Queensbridge so much
Speaker 2: as like Boogeann Productions versus pm DON, which is a
Speaker 2: rap beef that nobody remembered because it was a very
Speaker 2: serious street artistic philosopher king of hip hop versus a
Speaker 2: pop act with the number one hit, and it just
Speaker 2: didn't make any cultural impact because there was you know,
Speaker 2: there was really no common ground. Neither of them had
Speaker 2: something that the other one wanted. It's obviously too early
Speaker 2: to tell this is ongoing thing, but I had to
Speaker 2: picture this doing long term damage to either of them,
Speaker 2: but it's hard just because that isn't the standard that
Speaker 2: people generally measured Drake.
Speaker 1: But maybe why it's been such like a shocking development,
Speaker 1: and like this is the most damage it's done to Drake,
Speaker 1: you know, this is like probably the most kind of
Speaker 1: like public image, and Drake usually pretty unbreakable just because
Speaker 1: he is like such a meme in and of himself,
Speaker 1: Like that is something he's lead into. He's like leaned
Speaker 1: into a lot of the joke of the Drake of
Speaker 1: it all right, But like this is just because it's
Speaker 1: very clear that there's like someone from his own team
Speaker 1: kind of leaking stuff to Kendrick. Like there's like kind
Speaker 1: of levels to a lot of what's going on like
Speaker 1: behind the scenes for Drake, levels to a lot of
Speaker 1: what Kendrick alleges in the songs. And it's very fascinating
Speaker 1: because I mean, even when we spoke, you know, a
Speaker 1: while ago about the song for this episode, like it
Speaker 1: almost seemed like there was nothing that could kind of
Speaker 1: break that Drake success bubble. And this is maybe the
Speaker 1: closest is gotten. But I'm also not in that same
Speaker 1: way sure this is like the end in any way
Speaker 1: for Drake, Like I do kind of genuinely think that
Speaker 1: he probably has a hotline bling in my feelings nice
Speaker 1: for what level type of like summer smash in him.
Speaker 1: Still that like immediately people move on from He's.
Speaker 2: Taken l's like this before. That's the essence of Drake, right,
Speaker 2: he takes l's. That's what he does.
Speaker 1: Drake thesis of everything.
Speaker 3: Yes, likee yes.
Speaker 2: The constant themes with Drake are girls love Drake and
Speaker 2: Drake loses, like you know.
Speaker 1: Hot line Blink.
Speaker 2: Yeah, people thought people thought pusha and ended Drake. Ye,
Speaker 2: Like they seriously thought that, and it seemed like he
Speaker 2: could never come back from this, and of course it
Speaker 2: went down in history. Is one of the great l's
Speaker 2: that Drake takes because that's what Drake does.
Speaker 3: So what's that?
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly, So to me it fits in with hotline
Speaker 2: Blink because hotline Bling is like, Drake is not the
Speaker 2: winner of that battle with the girl. She's wearing lesson
Speaker 2: going out more. You know, Kendrick could be you know,
Speaker 2: like the one in Hotline Blaying who's like, you know,
Speaker 2: leaving Drake behind charity Moore, Yeah, exactly. But you know,
Speaker 2: part of what people love about Drake is, you know
Speaker 2: that he gets beat down, like in his songs. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and that's just something about him that people relate to.
Speaker 2: And so I think he comes out of this. I
Speaker 2: could be wrong, but I think this fits into a
Speaker 2: long tradition of Drake taking l's and people like, ah,
Speaker 2: that Drake. He sure got beat this time, he said,
Speaker 2: the Drake of it all.
Speaker 1: Next up, we will be joined by Rolling Stone Senior
Speaker 1: editor Jeffy Hasa. And now we're joined by senior Editor
Speaker 1: Rolling Stone, Jeffy Haza. Thank you so much for joining
Speaker 1: us today.
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me, guys.
Speaker 1: So tell us a little bit about your your relationship
Speaker 1: with Drake over the years.
Speaker 4: Oh my goodness, it's funny actually. So I'm from Houston,
Speaker 4: Texas originally, and when Drake was first really popping off,
Speaker 4: this has to have been in two thousand and nine,
Speaker 4: maybe two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine. A
Speaker 4: lot of his early shows were at in Houston. I
Speaker 4: think he wraps about like nine at Warehouse, like his
Speaker 4: buncoming or whatever. And I'll never forget I worked at
Speaker 4: Kroger grocery store and I was like a bag boy,
Speaker 4: and I had a crush on the girl who was
Speaker 4: the cashier that I was bagging for, and that was
Speaker 4: the beginning of me knowing who Drake was and listening
Speaker 4: to Drake.
Speaker 1: And do you remember where you were or kind of
Speaker 1: like how you heard Hotline Blane when it first came out.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So fast forward all those years later, I think
Speaker 4: I just moved to New York or i'd been here
Speaker 4: for like a year or so, and I was working
Speaker 4: at a different music magazine and I had the graveyard
Speaker 4: shift editor job, so it was like he announced that
Speaker 4: it was dropping, and then it was my job that
Speaker 4: night to like write up the premiere. So I was
Speaker 4: very much like refreshing the page waiting to see it.
Speaker 4: And then you know, when the video came out, all
Speaker 4: those memes came along with it of like him in
Speaker 4: the room and the dancing and everything, and then one
Speaker 4: of the first like blog post that ever and was
Speaker 4: like all of the funny memes to come out of
Speaker 4: the Hotline playing music video. Very impactful moment in my
Speaker 4: music journalism career.
Speaker 1: I'd say, yeah, I feel like the that summer it
Speaker 1: was like the first summer, like the first true summer
Speaker 1: of Drake.
Speaker 4: It felt like, yeah, that whole year honestly, Yeah, he
Speaker 4: kind of ran twenty fifteen to a point where, you know,
Speaker 4: the haters came out.
Speaker 3: Of the woodwork as we saw.
Speaker 4: I feel like that same year Kanye was doing like
Speaker 4: I forget what release Kanye was doing or what was
Speaker 4: going on, but he had this big concert in Madison
Speaker 4: Square Park and like Push a T, Travis Scott, all
Speaker 4: these people were there, and then all these videos came
Speaker 4: out the next day of like Drake in the crowd,
Speaker 4: like trying to get up front, and it was like
Speaker 4: the beginning of people like hating on Drake in this
Speaker 4: where it's like Kanye didn't even let you into the
Speaker 4: show type of big. But yeah, that summer, like Drake
Speaker 4: was so hot that I feel like there were just
Speaker 4: all these arrows coming at him because everyone wanted to
Speaker 4: take him off like the perch.
Speaker 1: You know, were you both immediate fans of this song
Speaker 1: when he first heard it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it didn't take it long because it's got that
Speaker 4: like I don't know what the classic thing is called,
Speaker 4: but it kind of the rhythm of it feels very
Speaker 4: reminiscent of like a like a Honolulu like vacation song
Speaker 4: or something, or like something you'd played a wedding like
Speaker 4: it just immediately kind of catches you as like, oh,
Speaker 4: this is a very almost wholesome song, even though it's
Speaker 4: very not wholesome yea what he's talking.
Speaker 3: About on it.
Speaker 1: I feel like everyone was taken by Hotline Playing immediately,
Speaker 1: Like it was there's no corner of music that was
Speaker 1: untouched by loving Hotline Playing.
Speaker 2: And it was such a weird sound that really retro
Speaker 2: Miami sound really transposed to a really different sort of
Speaker 2: emotional story, and it definitely it got your attention, and
Speaker 2: that was even before anybody saw the video, which was
Speaker 2: different kind of attention getting.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it reminds me a lot of hold on, We're
Speaker 4: going Home, where it's like it's Drake in this like
Speaker 4: retro pop vibe, which is so outside of the norm
Speaker 4: from what you see from rappers or even pop stars.
Speaker 4: And I think like he kind of does that really well.
Speaker 4: It's one of the many like little like that he
Speaker 4: can put on where it's like okay, dude, you're Bobby called, Well,
Speaker 4: we'll take it.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I feel like he was so good at catering to
Speaker 1: like his female audience because he realized very early on
Speaker 1: how much like like girls just loved his music and
Speaker 1: like he kind of catered to it in a way
Speaker 1: that was so specific and so like you said, like
Speaker 1: so outside of what so many rappers were doing at
Speaker 1: that time and singing and like really making a point
Speaker 1: to show off that he can sing and you know,
Speaker 1: hold on, we're going home with such a big moment
Speaker 1: for him in that way, and I think obviously sets
Speaker 1: the tone for this. And then he'd have a hit
Speaker 1: with like One Dance Later and Passion Food and you know,
Speaker 1: like obviously like in my feelings and nice for what
Speaker 1: kind of also have this kind of like you know,
Speaker 1: lightness to them and sort of like party kind of
Speaker 1: club vibe to them. That's like so much different than
Speaker 1: a lot of other stuff he had been doing prior.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like this is pop star drink.
Speaker 4: Yeah, this is where he's like kind of you know,
Speaker 4: I think when he came onto the scene, it was
Speaker 4: like I can rap and I can sing, And then
Speaker 4: into this era he starts to get into like I
Speaker 4: can also do Taylor Swift number with these major hits.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is the year that they had the Apple Music.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely, she was in your feelings.
Speaker 1: Like Drake, you know, even just that summer of having
Speaker 1: back to back and hotline blank, which are such like
Speaker 1: disparate sides of who Drake is. Like this like really
Speaker 1: hard to song at another rapper and that he like
Speaker 1: really owned, and then this like really great sort of
Speaker 1: like sung Miami ish like R and B song, which
Speaker 1: is perfect.
Speaker 4: Well, that's a really fun way to like end a
Speaker 4: rap beef. It's like to now, I'm just gonna come
Speaker 4: out with like the softest song ever.
Speaker 3: But only Drake.
Speaker 4: I feel like, Oh, that's like kind of Drake's specialty
Speaker 4: where it's he doesn't he doesn't like fulfill any expectations,
Speaker 4: especially when it comes to hip hop. It's like he
Speaker 4: does his own thing genuinely. And I think his fans
Speaker 4: and people who really love him they respond to that
Speaker 4: because it's like he's willing to be vulnerable. He's willing
Speaker 4: to be you know, self deprecating. Even though Drake is
Speaker 4: probably two in his head about.
Speaker 3: It these days.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like he really had fun with being
Speaker 1: a meme when it came up, Like it was something
Speaker 1: where he didn't take it too seriously. And I think
Speaker 1: a lot of artists can and feel so like self
Speaker 1: conscious about it and like in their head about it
Speaker 1: and like take it very, very personally, Whereas I think
Speaker 1: like Drake really owned it and kind of loved it
Speaker 1: because he knew that was like the power of the
Speaker 1: audience and like what kept him in the conversation.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, Drake is so Internet savvy, and I
Speaker 4: feel like this hotline and bling moment is kind of
Speaker 4: the beginning of us really seeing how savvy.
Speaker 3: He is with the Internet.
Speaker 4: I know we were talking earlier about how that song
Speaker 4: was ten years ago, and it's like for the past
Speaker 4: ten years, Drake has dominated the conversation primarily because he's
Speaker 4: so good at being like the subject of the internet's
Speaker 4: you know, ire or love one day or the other,
Speaker 4: and he kind of knows how to just own it
Speaker 4: and not like flame out. Like we've seen a lot
Speaker 4: of artists flame out. There's one flaming out today.
Speaker 1: And I mean, let's talk about the video a little bit,
Speaker 1: because the video is so good and like, even just
Speaker 1: like rewatching it, I'm like, I don't even know what
Speaker 1: it was about this, Like it's such a great video obviously,
Speaker 1: but like I'm like, I cannot believe how much this
Speaker 1: video overtook culture for like as long as it did,
Speaker 1: Like it's like so simple. It's just like Drake dancing
Speaker 1: and just Neon like rooms, and it works so well
Speaker 1: because he's just like kind of it's just funny to
Speaker 1: watch him dance, and it's.
Speaker 4: Just Drake, right, if I'm remembering correctly. It's like there's
Speaker 4: not like a whole background dancer.
Speaker 1: There's like one dancer who shows up randomly, and then
Speaker 1: there's like the call center girls. At the beginning, I
Speaker 1: did a group costume for Hotlines playing that year. I
Speaker 1: was a call center girl, and then one of my
Speaker 1: friends was Drake and then another friend Why go Aground?
Speaker 4: The video is like it's so minimal and it's so
Speaker 4: like I think the lighting of it and the way
Speaker 4: that Drake dances in it just became so immediately like
Speaker 4: this is what we're doing now. From twenty fifteen to
Speaker 4: like twenty sixty or seventeen, almost like Borat where it's
Speaker 4: like one of those things that happens and then everywhere
Speaker 4: you look it's like someone's making a joke about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I feel like there was, like I mean
Speaker 1: it was there were memes for like a year. There's
Speaker 1: references on like every show and it's even crazier that
Speaker 1: it's not even like I feel like Hotline Blink isn't
Speaker 1: even like the primary thing you think of when you
Speaker 1: think of Drake anymore. Like it's right how everywhere that
Speaker 1: song was like it it's not necessarily the thing people
Speaker 1: even associate with Drake. Like there's so much other like
Speaker 1: really massive hits he's had since then, or like giant
Speaker 1: cultural moments that he's had since then.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like, you know, that was the first of
Speaker 4: many of his like world smashing pop crossover hits, whereas
Speaker 4: you mentioned like One Dance, Passion Fruit, those all came
Speaker 4: I feel like right after actually because they're all on views.
Speaker 4: But I feel like the guy's got it, you know
Speaker 4: when he makes these big statement songs, like they take
Speaker 4: over and then it's he does so many of them
Speaker 4: that you almost forget that he did that. Like when
Speaker 4: we were talking about doing this episode, I'm like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 4: Hotline Blink, that song is amazing, Like it's just one
Speaker 4: of those things about Drake.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I feel like everyone, especially with like you know,
Speaker 1: more of his more at the Twin One Savage album
Speaker 1: and all that, Like it seems like he's kind of
Speaker 1: moved towards just being like harder Drake again.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what do you.
Speaker 1: Think of that?
Speaker 4: I think he's been so tested by his peers where
Speaker 4: you know, kind of like we're talking about, you know,
Speaker 4: twenty fifteen and onwards, he's been like the main target
Speaker 4: at the same time, and I think he's someone who
Speaker 4: seems to need to have the need to prove himself
Speaker 4: or feel the need to prove himself. So instead of
Speaker 4: giving us full on house bangers for the past ten years,
Speaker 4: which I'm sure in his heart is what he wants
Speaker 4: to be doing, it's like someone tests him and he's like,
Speaker 4: you know what, I gotta rap again just to make
Speaker 4: sure they know that, like I still got it, I'm still.
Speaker 3: Him or whatever.
Speaker 4: Meanwhile, his real fans we want that, honestly, never mind Drake,
Speaker 4: we want the Abeza Drake. Like, I'm good with that.
Speaker 4: I'm good if he never wraps again. Just does hotline blinks.
Speaker 1: I feel the exact same way.
Speaker 4: What's gonna happen when Drake is like happy, like he
Speaker 4: gets merri or something and falls in love.
Speaker 3: Oh no, I.
Speaker 1: Feel like Drake is like the least satisfied man.
Speaker 3: I think him in future of a song about that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he sort of built that into the system.
Speaker 2: I don't think we have to worry about that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that'll be the twist in pop culture though, Like
Speaker 4: Drake pulls up and he's like happily married. Say, guys,
Speaker 4: I love my wife.
Speaker 1: I would I think a wife, guy Drake wife be
Speaker 1: really earth shattering.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's how you really change it up.
Speaker 1: By for Drake his version of Man of the Woods.
Speaker 1: You know, like, yeah, well, thank you so much Jeff
Speaker 1: for joining us today. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 3: Thank you guys, it's just fun.
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listening to Rolling Stone's five hundred
Speaker 1: Greatest songs. This podcast is brought to you by Rolling
Speaker 1: Stone and iHeartMedia. Written hosted by Me, Britney Spanos.
Speaker 2: And Rob Sheffield, Executive.
Speaker 1: Produced by Jason Fine, Alex Dale and Christian Horde, and
Speaker 1: produce by Jesse Cannon, with music supervision by Eric Zeiler.
Speaker 1: Thanks for watching, and thanks for listening.