WEBVTT - Listener Q's: Sex Swapping, Smallest Shark, Marmots! 0:00:07.360 --> 0:00:10.799 Welcome to Creature Future production of iHeartRadio. I'm your host 0:00:10.800 --> 0:00:15.280 of Many Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology and evolutionary biology, 0:00:15.280 --> 0:00:16.000 and today on the. 0:00:16.040 --> 0:00:18.680 Show, it's a listener Questions episode. 0:00:19.079 --> 0:00:22.800 I answer your questions that you send to me at 0:00:22.840 --> 0:00:26.040 Creature Feature product gmail dot com. Do you have any 0:00:26.120 --> 0:00:31.480 questions about evolutionary biology, your pets, animal behavior. I will 0:00:31.520 --> 0:00:34.920 do my best to answer them. I love these questions. 0:00:35.040 --> 0:00:38.199 They often make me do a little bit of homework, 0:00:38.920 --> 0:00:42.839 do some research, phone up on my evolutionary biology and 0:00:42.920 --> 0:00:45.760 so I love them and I really appreciate you guys 0:00:46.040 --> 0:00:50.160 writing in. Let's get right into the first listener question. Hi, Katie, 0:00:50.200 --> 0:00:53.199 I absolutely love learning and I love animals, so when 0:00:53.240 --> 0:00:56.320 I found your podcast, I was a static. I'm constantly 0:00:56.320 --> 0:00:59.040 annoying my friends and family with the fascinating facts I've 0:00:59.080 --> 0:01:01.960 learned while to your podcast. I am still working my 0:01:02.000 --> 0:01:03.639 way through your podcast, so I'm not sure if you've 0:01:03.640 --> 0:01:06.000 covered this topic yet, but I am so fascinating with 0:01:06.040 --> 0:01:09.360 animals that have evolved to change their sex. I know 0:01:09.440 --> 0:01:12.920 there are fish, clownfish, and Asian sheep's head rass that 0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:16.360 can do it, and also a lizard in Madagascar. I 0:01:16.400 --> 0:01:19.800 think that lays fertilized eggs limiting the need to mate 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:22.720 with a male. It's just so amazing how nature can 0:01:22.880 --> 0:01:25.880 just evolve like that in order to survive. Are there 0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:29.920 other animals besides those two fish and that lizard that 0:01:29.959 --> 0:01:32.160 have evolved in this way? No, I'd love to hear 0:01:32.200 --> 0:01:35.560 more from a biologists perspective on this topic. Also, if 0:01:35.560 --> 0:01:38.560 this is an episode already ready, which is it? 0:01:38.600 --> 0:01:39.280 Which one is it? 0:01:39.600 --> 0:01:41.840 I want to hear all the things. Thank you again 0:01:41.920 --> 0:01:44.560 for such a great podcast and can't wait to hear more. 0:01:44.840 --> 0:01:49.200 This is Chelsea from Coal Valley, Illinois. Hi, Chelsea, thank 0:01:49.240 --> 0:01:51.720 you so much for your question. I will definitely get 0:01:51.760 --> 0:01:55.760 into some details and facts and examples of animals who 0:01:56.280 --> 0:01:58.640 change their sex, But first I can tell you about 0:01:58.680 --> 0:02:02.160 the some of the episodeodes where I have covered some 0:02:02.280 --> 0:02:04.720 of this. There's plenty of stuff to go over those, 0:02:04.800 --> 0:02:07.840 so I have plenty more to talk about right now 0:02:07.880 --> 0:02:11.000 and then also on later episodes. But a couple examples 0:02:11.120 --> 0:02:17.360 of episodes where I cover sex swap shenanigans. There's one 0:02:17.760 --> 0:02:21.440 that was published January twentieth. In twenty twenty one, it 0:02:21.560 --> 0:02:25.400 was an episode called Paul Blart Jurassic Park cop where 0:02:25.400 --> 0:02:31.000 we talked about whiptail lizards and clownfish. And on June nineteenth, 0:02:31.080 --> 0:02:34.040 twenty twenty four, I did an episode called Happy Pride 0:02:34.440 --> 0:02:39.079 that was on all sorts of animal sex diversity, both 0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:42.720 in terms of like biological sex and also sexuality. There's 0:02:42.840 --> 0:02:45.280 probably more episodes where I talk about these things, but 0:02:45.320 --> 0:02:48.959 those are the two that I can remember. Anyways, I 0:02:49.000 --> 0:02:53.640 am as fascinated as you are by animals and the 0:02:54.320 --> 0:02:59.720 ways in which sex is not really a binary, or 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:02.720 at LEAs it's not a strict set in stone binary 0:03:03.240 --> 0:03:06.720 in a lot of cases in animals. First, let me 0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:09.480 explain before I go onto the new examples. Let me 0:03:09.480 --> 0:03:13.639 explain the ones that you brought up, Chelsea. The clownfish 0:03:13.680 --> 0:03:17.960 and Asian sheep's head rass. These are two species of 0:03:18.000 --> 0:03:23.800 fish which are sequential hermaphrodites, which means they change sex 0:03:24.120 --> 0:03:28.720 during their life cycle. So clownfish famously can change their 0:03:28.800 --> 0:03:34.840 sex depending on their environment as well as a hierarchical 0:03:35.200 --> 0:03:39.480 social system. So they start out as males, and a 0:03:39.560 --> 0:03:43.880 dominant male will listend to the rank of breeding female, 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:46.200 and this is sort of like the queen of a 0:03:46.240 --> 0:03:50.760 group of all males. Her second in command. The second 0:03:50.800 --> 0:03:55.000 most dominant is a breeding male, and so these are 0:03:55.040 --> 0:03:58.600 the two. These are the only two that generally breed 0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:00.880 in these groups. It's these two and then a bunch 0:04:00.880 --> 0:04:04.480 of other males, and they live together, protect each other. 0:04:05.120 --> 0:04:07.839 Often they live among the sea and enemies because they 0:04:08.240 --> 0:04:12.520 are able to be resistant to the ceain enemy toxins 0:04:12.600 --> 0:04:16.159 while benefiting from the protection and the cea An enemies 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:20.480 benefit from the little scraps of food that the clownfish 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:24.120 lead behind. So they're living there. But then they also 0:04:24.360 --> 0:04:27.080 live in a social group where you have a queen 0:04:28.240 --> 0:04:32.520 dominant female, then the second in command, which is a male. 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:34.960 Those two breed, and then the rest of the males 0:04:35.360 --> 0:04:38.720 just kind of orbit around them benefit from the territory, 0:04:38.880 --> 0:04:43.320 but they are not breeding. If the breeding female dies 0:04:43.920 --> 0:04:48.080 is lost moves on, the second in command male actually 0:04:48.120 --> 0:04:52.520 turns into a female, and then he becomes a she 0:04:53.400 --> 0:04:56.320 and becomes the breeding female, the new sort of like 0:04:56.560 --> 0:05:02.080 queen of this little colony, and then just the non 0:05:02.120 --> 0:05:06.280 breeding males then becomes her consort, the next second in command, 0:05:07.600 --> 0:05:11.559 who will eventually then take over her spot and become 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:17.080 female when she dies or if she's killed. So this 0:05:17.160 --> 0:05:19.599 is how it works, right, It's a really interesting system. 0:05:20.040 --> 0:05:26.440 These fish will change sex throughout their lifetime based on 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:29.919 the social hierarchy, which is there's really in one of 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:34.839 these little colonies, there's only one female who's breeding and 0:05:34.880 --> 0:05:37.400 then her second in command. It's not really a harem 0:05:37.640 --> 0:05:39.960 situation where she's breeding with all the males. That's not 0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:43.720 really happening. She's breeding with her one second in command male, 0:05:44.480 --> 0:05:46.360 and then the rest of the males are just in 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:49.280 a way waiting their turn. And they also benefit from 0:05:49.320 --> 0:05:54.000 the protective nature of having a colony. So you know, 0:05:54.880 --> 0:06:00.000 it's a really interesting system. So the Asian, she said 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:05.840 wrass are similarly really interesting. So they start out as 0:06:06.040 --> 0:06:10.400 normal looking tropical fish. The young ones are sort of 0:06:10.440 --> 0:06:15.839 orangish orangish with a white stripe. Older ones turn more 0:06:15.839 --> 0:06:19.080 of an olive tan color, they still have the little 0:06:19.160 --> 0:06:22.880 racing stripe. Now, unlike the clownfish, which all start out 0:06:22.880 --> 0:06:27.400 as males, the sheep head rass all start out as females. 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:31.680 When they get old enough, which is about ten to 0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:37.200 fifteen years old and big enough, they actually turn in 0:06:37.320 --> 0:06:42.239 two males at that point and they undergo a really 0:06:42.360 --> 0:06:48.560 dramatic change in body size and shape, so they look 0:06:48.760 --> 0:06:53.080 very very different from their juvenile female forms. They lose 0:06:54.200 --> 0:06:57.520 any of the youthful coloration. They turn a sort of 0:06:57.960 --> 0:06:59.960 tan brown color or a reddish color. 0:07:00.680 --> 0:07:00.800 Uh. 0:07:01.080 --> 0:07:06.080 And most notably, their heads kind of balloon out and 0:07:06.120 --> 0:07:11.000 get bulbous and puffy and big, so they have this 0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:16.440 huge growth on the forehead, an extruded, puffy lower jaw, 0:07:17.120 --> 0:07:19.840 and they grow from a little over a foot at 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:23.640 their mature female size to up to two feet as 0:07:23.680 --> 0:07:27.000 a male. So the change from female into a male 0:07:27.120 --> 0:07:30.760 is permanent and they'll live the rest of their lives 0:07:30.800 --> 0:07:35.880 as a big headed dude. And this is a really 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:39.720 interesting case where it doesn't really seem the environment might 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:42.480 play a role, but in general it's just once they 0:07:42.560 --> 0:07:46.400 get big enough, they are able to turn from a 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:49.280 female into a male, and. 0:07:49.120 --> 0:07:50.960 This is just their life cycle. 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:55.040 So clownfish and cheap drasts are far from the only 0:07:55.160 --> 0:07:59.320 fish who can change their sex. There are many many 0:07:59.400 --> 0:08:04.680 species of both sequential hermaphrodites. These are the clownfish and 0:08:04.720 --> 0:08:07.200 the rass are the two examples of that, but there 0:08:07.200 --> 0:08:09.239 are also a lot of species of fish who can 0:08:09.720 --> 0:08:14.000 change back and forth where it's not a permanent change. So, 0:08:14.240 --> 0:08:18.800 coral gobies are a genius of small colorful fish that 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:22.200 live in nooks and crannies of coral reefs. They're very pretty, 0:08:22.280 --> 0:08:24.960 very cute, but they don't want to waste encounters with 0:08:25.080 --> 0:08:28.120 other coral gobies. So if they happen to both be 0:08:28.400 --> 0:08:31.880 the same sex, usually one of them will rapidly change 0:08:31.880 --> 0:08:35.640 sex in order to mate with the other. And in 0:08:35.679 --> 0:08:39.680 a lot of species they form long term pair bonds. 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:42.840 So for them, when their partner dies, if their partner 0:08:42.840 --> 0:08:46.560 dies before them, they'll go find another goby and if 0:08:46.640 --> 0:08:49.400 they are the same sex with this other gobi, they 0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:52.960 will change their sex to mate with them, to match 0:08:53.000 --> 0:08:55.760 with them, and they can switch back and forth if 0:08:55.800 --> 0:09:00.160 they need to. So really really interesting again, like this 0:09:00.240 --> 0:09:05.720 is something where they have you know, it is easier 0:09:05.720 --> 0:09:08.040 for them to be able to change their sex than 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:12.160 to make sure that they're finding a male or a 0:09:12.200 --> 0:09:16.080 female if they happen to be the opposite sex. Incredible. 0:09:16.840 --> 0:09:22.120 So another one that you mentioned are the New Mexico 0:09:22.200 --> 0:09:26.840 whiptail lizards. So they are I think this is the 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:31.839 lizard that you're mentioning, Chelsea. Now, these are a type 0:09:31.880 --> 0:09:35.320 of lizard, a species that are found in New Mexico 0:09:35.440 --> 0:09:40.600 and Arizona, and they don't change their sex, but they 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:45.160 are all females, so they do not need males to reproduce, 0:09:45.600 --> 0:09:52.360 and they're a hybridization basically of these very closely related 0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:56.600 species of lizards. And so what happens is that these 0:09:56.720 --> 0:10:03.760 females actually have three chromosomes triploid rather than having two 0:10:03.880 --> 0:10:08.960 chromosomes like humans and a lot of animals have, and 0:10:09.280 --> 0:10:14.320 so they are able to reshuffle these three chromosomes and 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:21.880 produce a reshuffled clone in an act of parthenogenesis. So 0:10:21.920 --> 0:10:29.160 that's reproduction without sex. So usually asexual reproduction can cause 0:10:29.240 --> 0:10:31.959 issues when you don't have a. 0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:33.920 Lot of genetic diversity. 0:10:33.960 --> 0:10:37.479 So you'll have a lot of species of animals, particularly 0:10:37.520 --> 0:10:43.239 insects and invertebrates, where they will have an asexual reproduction 0:10:43.400 --> 0:10:47.640 phase and then a sexual reproduction phase so that they're 0:10:47.880 --> 0:10:52.319 able to multiply a lot without needing to go through sex. 0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:56.360 But then they will every so often have some sex 0:10:57.400 --> 0:11:00.760 so that they can introduce some genetic Diversityids do this 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:06.560 where some generations are asexual and then another there's every 0:11:06.600 --> 0:11:09.600 so often there will be a generation of them that 0:11:09.720 --> 0:11:15.480 are sexually reproducing, and then that helps them increase the 0:11:15.640 --> 0:11:21.239 genetic diversity of their population. A lot of like coral species. 0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:26.040 What they do is they will go through asexual reproduction 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:28.280 phase budding, creating. 0:11:27.920 --> 0:11:30.240 Clones, and then those clones. 0:11:30.040 --> 0:11:32.760 Will then go through a sexual reproduction phase, so that 0:11:32.800 --> 0:11:37.120 you're basically going back and forth between asexually reproducing and 0:11:37.120 --> 0:11:41.040 then sexually reproducing. So the benefit of asexual reproduction is 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:43.800 you can do it really quickly. You don't need to 0:11:44.360 --> 0:11:48.040 find a partner, which is great when you're coral and 0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:48.800 you can't. 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:50.079 Move, and. 0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:54.640 You can do like a lot of it at once. 0:11:55.840 --> 0:11:59.359 But then the benefit of sexual reproduction is the introducing 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:05.360 more diverse genome and that is useful because if you 0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:09.200 have a disease or change in the climate or a 0:12:09.240 --> 0:12:15.640 new predator, having a larger, richer genetic library increases the 0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:18.120 chance that some of your offspring is going to have 0:12:18.640 --> 0:12:23.280 some genetic quality or mutation or capability of a future 0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:26.959 mutation that will allow them to survive. So the whiptailed 0:12:27.000 --> 0:12:30.520 lizards kind of bypass that by having that set of 0:12:30.559 --> 0:12:34.120 three chromosomes that they can kind of shuffle and create 0:12:34.160 --> 0:12:40.440 new combinations that allow them to asexually reproduce. Interestingly, they 0:12:40.760 --> 0:12:44.920 don't need to have sex because they don't need to 0:12:44.960 --> 0:12:47.480 be fertilized, and they don't do that, but they do 0:12:47.679 --> 0:12:53.480 pseudocopulation where essentially one female lizard will hump another female lizard, 0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:57.680 and it's actually useful in addition to probably being a 0:12:57.760 --> 0:13:03.520 nice social activity for them, it induces ovulation and it's 0:13:03.559 --> 0:13:07.160 a really interesting thing where it's like there's no real 0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:14.239 practical purpose to it other than encouraging ovulation and probably 0:13:14.320 --> 0:13:18.079 being a way for them to socially connect. So yeah, 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:22.960 really really interesting reptiles there. Another example of an interesting 0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:29.080 reptile is the bearded dragon, which this is another case 0:13:29.280 --> 0:13:36.280 of non set in stone sex. So this actually happens 0:13:36.400 --> 0:13:39.959 when they are still in the egg. So, like many reptiles, 0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:47.760 the temperature of incubation will determine the sex of the embryo, 0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:54.280 but unlike some other reptile species, they also have a 0:13:54.600 --> 0:14:01.079 chromosomal determinant of sex upon fertilization. So what this is 0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:10.760 that they will sometimes have like say, one sex upon fertilization, 0:14:11.679 --> 0:14:16.280 but then that can be overridden by the temperature of incubation. 0:14:17.040 --> 0:14:23.480 And this typically happens when you have a male chromosomally 0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:28.800 and then a high incubation temperature, which actually will turn 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:36.040 it into a fully functional physiological female with male chromosomes. 0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:39.720 So yeah, this is this is a case in which 0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:46.360 like the male embryo transitions physiologically into a female in 0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:51.120 the embryo as the embryo inside the egg before it hatches, 0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:56.280 so it's able to get pregnant, breed act like a female, 0:14:56.400 --> 0:14:59.840 but it has the genetics of a male. In human 0:15:00.640 --> 0:15:03.320 we have cases like this. It's not due to the 0:15:03.360 --> 0:15:09.480 temperature in utero, but there are definitely cases of people 0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:13.920 who are intersex or have androgen and sensitivity syndrome, where 0:15:13.960 --> 0:15:18.640 you have you may have genes that say one thing 0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:23.920 right like say x Y like your male, but then 0:15:24.640 --> 0:15:32.120 you have your physiologically appear female. So you know, this 0:15:32.160 --> 0:15:35.560 does happen in humans. It's just not like as it 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:39.240 doesn't happen as a rule, whereas in bearded dragons it 0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:44.080 happens every time the eggs are incubated at a higher temperature. 0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:48.960 So you know, if anyone tells you that sex is 0:15:49.000 --> 0:15:54.560 really a very simple binary, they have not listened to 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:58.920 this podcast or really gotten into the juicy bits of 0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:04.960 evolutionary biology where things get a lot more fun. So 0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:09.320 I hope that helps satisfy some of your curiosity. But 0:16:09.360 --> 0:16:12.400 I'm definitely we'll talk more on the show about these 0:16:12.440 --> 0:16:15.880 kinds of things because there are so many, many, many, 0:16:15.920 --> 0:16:23.720 many examples of interesting sex sort of like either sex 0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:28.880 changes or different kinds of systems than what we think, 0:16:29.040 --> 0:16:32.040 like what is the traditional view of what is normal 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:34.040 and natural in terms of having a male and a 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:36.440 female and they have sex and they have an offspring. 0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:40.240 A lot of different ways to do it in nature. 0:16:40.360 --> 0:16:45.400 So thank you for that question. Onto the next listener question. 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:47.800 This one's short and sweet, but I like it. What 0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:49.200 are the smallest sharks and. 0:16:49.160 --> 0:16:50.960 What do they hunt? This is from Ada. 0:16:52.160 --> 0:16:56.800 So the smallest known sharks are the dwarf lantern sharks, 0:16:56.840 --> 0:16:59.760 which are tiny guys who can fit in the palm 0:16:59.760 --> 0:17:04.440 of your hand. They grow to be about only up 0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:08.920 to eight inches long, which is around twenty centimeters. They 0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:15.040 are found in the waters off of Colombia and Venezuela. 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:19.320 They live at depths of over nine hundred feet which 0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:23.160 is over two hundred and eighty meters, so they're relatively 0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:28.639 rare to spot because they're in the twilight zone, which 0:17:28.680 --> 0:17:34.280 is this depth of the ocean. Where there's a little 0:17:34.280 --> 0:17:38.040 bit of light but not much. They are a brownish 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:42.080 dark gray color and they have big old eyes. So 0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:44.880 they also have a series of black markings along their 0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:48.359 sides and on their bellies. Actually also on their bellies. 0:17:48.440 --> 0:17:53.919 They have photophores, which are light producing cells, so they 0:17:53.920 --> 0:17:57.520 can actually light up in the dark twilight zone depths 0:17:57.600 --> 0:18:01.760 where they live. So the light producing cells accomplish a 0:18:01.920 --> 0:18:06.080 couple of things. They can attract prey, which I don't 0:18:06.080 --> 0:18:09.680 know if we have a lot of specifics on what 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:13.840 they eat exactly, but it is going to be things 0:18:13.920 --> 0:18:23.160 like invertebrates or smaller vertebrates like smaller fish. But really interestingly, 0:18:23.480 --> 0:18:28.080 this light also acts as camouflage, which sounds counterintuitive, right 0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:31.280 you're lighting yourself up. That seems like it'd making more noticeable, 0:18:31.680 --> 0:18:35.680 But like I said, the photophores are along their belly, 0:18:35.760 --> 0:18:38.080 and so if you're a predator, you're only going to 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:43.600 see those lights looking up and upwards. When you're in 0:18:43.640 --> 0:18:47.040 the toilet zone, light is actually filtering down. So if 0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:49.440 you look down and you're in the twilet zone, it's 0:18:49.440 --> 0:18:52.240 all darkness, but if you look up, you're seeing light 0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:57.960 filtering in from the sun or the moon, and if 0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:03.400 you have something that has a dark underside and it's 0:19:03.440 --> 0:19:06.000 not illuminated, you're going to see like a shadow above 0:19:06.040 --> 0:19:08.359 you and see like, oh, that looks like a nice snack. 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:14.960 But with these lantern sharks, because their bellies are slightly luminous, 0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:18.040 it actually blends in with the light filtering down from above, 0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:21.280 so predator looks up and can't necessarily tell the difference 0:19:21.640 --> 0:19:25.600 between the lit up belly of this lantern shark and 0:19:25.640 --> 0:19:28.920 the rest of the diffuse light coming in from above. 0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:34.280 You actually see this not always with light producing coloration, 0:19:34.520 --> 0:19:39.879 but with say white bellies for animals, where they'll have 0:19:39.960 --> 0:19:44.920 a darker top and then white bellies a la an orca, 0:19:45.440 --> 0:19:49.679 and that helps camouflage them. For orcas, it's not as 0:19:49.760 --> 0:19:52.560 much for detection, maybe as being able to ambush prey. 0:19:53.359 --> 0:19:56.119 But yeah, so for the lantern sharks though, they are 0:19:56.160 --> 0:20:03.400 literally lighting up with bioluminescence these photophores. So interestingly, there 0:20:03.440 --> 0:20:07.560 is a similarly sized shark, maybe a little bigger, like 0:20:07.640 --> 0:20:09.160 by a fraction. 0:20:08.920 --> 0:20:11.320 Of an inch. It's maybe on average. 0:20:10.960 --> 0:20:15.440 Bigger, but it's a completely different species of shark in 0:20:15.480 --> 0:20:19.359 a completely different region in the waters near Japan. The 0:20:19.359 --> 0:20:23.159 philippines in Australia actually at a similar depth in the 0:20:23.200 --> 0:20:27.920 twilight zone as this other the lantern shark, but they're 0:20:28.119 --> 0:20:34.439 very morphologically that is, like physically similar to the lantern shark, 0:20:34.840 --> 0:20:38.000 despite being a completely different, unrelated species in a different 0:20:38.000 --> 0:20:40.840 area of the world. This is called the small eye 0:20:40.880 --> 0:20:46.760 pygmy shark and it's also tiny brown and they also 0:20:46.960 --> 0:20:51.880 have photophores, light producing cells on their bellies, and it's 0:20:51.920 --> 0:20:56.600 thought they use the same strategy as the lantern shark, 0:20:56.880 --> 0:21:01.520 so the lights help them camouflage but also tracked small prey. 0:21:02.920 --> 0:21:05.320 We do know a little more about what kind of 0:21:05.359 --> 0:21:10.879 prey these guys eat, which is small squid, shrimp, krill, 0:21:11.560 --> 0:21:16.760 and smaller fish like lantern fish. Now lanternfish, don't get 0:21:16.760 --> 0:21:19.439 that confused with lantern sharks. The lantern sharks that we 0:21:19.560 --> 0:21:22.359 just talked about too big for these guys live in 0:21:22.400 --> 0:21:25.359 a different area. But lantern fish, which are these tiny 0:21:25.400 --> 0:21:31.240 little guys, our prey for the small eye pygmy shark. 0:21:31.440 --> 0:21:35.480 So my guess would be that it's slightly smaller look 0:21:35.520 --> 0:21:39.720 alike the lantern fish or lantern shark that we talked 0:21:39.720 --> 0:21:44.080 about earlier probably eats very similar things, probably shrimp, krill, 0:21:44.480 --> 0:21:48.560 other invertebrates, and then smaller fish. 0:21:48.760 --> 0:21:50.000 So there you go. 0:21:50.160 --> 0:21:54.280 They do hunt, but they also gotta be sneaky because 0:21:54.280 --> 0:21:57.520 they are small and snack sized, and they use that 0:21:57.640 --> 0:22:01.840 really cool trick of lighting their tummies so that when 0:22:01.880 --> 0:22:06.720 you're looking up above, they blend in with the light filtering. 0:22:06.240 --> 0:22:07.800 Down in the twilight zone. 0:22:07.760 --> 0:22:10.960 Whereas if you're looking above and down below at them, 0:22:10.960 --> 0:22:13.679 you don't see the lights on their bellies. You just 0:22:13.800 --> 0:22:18.080 see that dark brown color that blends in with the 0:22:18.160 --> 0:22:19.639 murkiness of the depths. 0:22:19.680 --> 0:22:22.919 So really really cool. Thank you for your question. 0:22:24.240 --> 0:22:29.399 Onto the next listener question. I got sent a video 0:22:29.920 --> 0:22:33.679 of a marmot and the email goes, I saw this 0:22:33.760 --> 0:22:36.560 cute marmot video on Reddit today and don't think I've 0:22:36.560 --> 0:22:38.600 heard you talk about them that much. I'd love some 0:22:38.640 --> 0:22:41.800 more episodes about rodents. I love rats, but also Keppy barras. 0:22:41.920 --> 0:22:44.399 I would love to hear any episodes about Marmott's, Beaver's, 0:22:44.440 --> 0:22:47.840 Kepby Burrows, etc. While not a rodent, I love higher 0:22:47.840 --> 0:22:50.639 axes now because of you, hope you enjoy the video 0:22:50.920 --> 0:22:55.479 from Chloe. The video is of a marmot stealing a 0:22:55.520 --> 0:23:01.320 cracker from a man slowly approaching the camera, stopping every 0:23:01.359 --> 0:23:03.480 time the man looks at him, and then every time 0:23:03.480 --> 0:23:06.399 the man looks away, comes right up steals the cracker 0:23:06.480 --> 0:23:09.680 right out of his hands, which is a very very 0:23:09.720 --> 0:23:14.240 marmot behavior. So thank you for this video and for 0:23:15.000 --> 0:23:17.920 question Chloe. I'll talk a little bit about marmots right now. 0:23:18.640 --> 0:23:22.280 Definitely will have occasion to talk about more rodents in 0:23:22.320 --> 0:23:27.399 the future on the podcast. So marmots are very very cool. 0:23:28.640 --> 0:23:32.680 I've personally run into them hiking in the Sierra Nevadas. 0:23:33.480 --> 0:23:37.520 There's the yellow bellied marmot in Canada and western US. 0:23:37.560 --> 0:23:38.679 They're quite big. 0:23:38.760 --> 0:23:44.000 They're like, I would say, like a very fat cat size, 0:23:44.040 --> 0:23:49.280 like they're larger than your average cat, and they're very cute. 0:23:49.800 --> 0:23:55.159 They are indeed large rodents. In fact, they're technically a 0:23:55.280 --> 0:23:59.040 type of ground squirrel. They don't look very squirrely, they 0:23:59.040 --> 0:24:04.200 don't generally have the fluffy long tails like squirrels. There 0:24:04.240 --> 0:24:07.080 are many different species of these though, so there are 0:24:07.119 --> 0:24:12.280 fifteen species found in Europe, Asia and North America, so 0:24:12.320 --> 0:24:15.760 they get around. If you're not sure what a marmot is, 0:24:16.480 --> 0:24:21.080 think of a groundhog. The ground hog is actually a 0:24:21.160 --> 0:24:25.200 species of marmot. So if you've seen a groundhog, you'll 0:24:25.240 --> 0:24:27.480 have a general idea of what a marmot looks like. 0:24:27.680 --> 0:24:32.680 Of course, different species have slightly different colorations, slightly different shapes. 0:24:32.760 --> 0:24:35.840 A lot of them are a bit bigger than a groundhog. 0:24:38.000 --> 0:24:41.000 You might hear about marmots in the news every so often, 0:24:42.280 --> 0:24:46.880 well pretty rarely, when someone contracts the bubonic plague from 0:24:46.920 --> 0:24:52.040 them by hunting and consuming their meat, particularly if it's 0:24:52.160 --> 0:24:58.240 raw or undercooked. So this doesn't really happen in North America. 0:24:58.280 --> 0:25:01.840 This is usually something that happens in Northeast Asia. So 0:25:02.040 --> 0:25:05.600 technically you could get the plague from an infected marmot 0:25:05.640 --> 0:25:09.160 if fleas travel from the marmot to humans, but that's 0:25:09.240 --> 0:25:13.000 really rare these days. I was unable to find an 0:25:13.080 --> 0:25:18.240 example of that happening in recent history. I think probably 0:25:19.520 --> 0:25:23.480 it's just very uncommon to be living in close quarters 0:25:23.960 --> 0:25:27.840 with marmots to the point where a flea is gonna 0:25:27.840 --> 0:25:30.560 bite an infected marmot, get off the marmot and get 0:25:30.600 --> 0:25:34.439 on you and bite you. The last time there was 0:25:34.480 --> 0:25:39.080 a plague caused by marmots was the Manchurian Plague of 0:25:39.280 --> 0:25:45.800 nineteen ten in Northeast Asia, during which people caught the 0:25:45.880 --> 0:25:50.159 pneumonic plague from marmot fleas killed a lot of people, 0:25:50.240 --> 0:25:53.640 killed like at least sixty thousand people, so. 0:25:53.640 --> 0:25:54.760 It was very serious. 0:25:55.760 --> 0:26:00.679 But yeah, it's really not very common, not something to 0:26:00.720 --> 0:26:05.479 worry about. I have not seen any cases of plague 0:26:05.800 --> 0:26:09.280 being transmitted from marmot's to humans in America. 0:26:09.400 --> 0:26:10.320 In North America. 0:26:11.600 --> 0:26:16.240 It could happen, but it's I haven't seen any documentation 0:26:16.320 --> 0:26:21.000 of it, because they are technically a carrier of the 0:26:21.000 --> 0:26:26.520 the bacteria that can cause the plague. Yeah, it's just 0:26:26.560 --> 0:26:29.399 really rare that someone would be in close proximity with 0:26:29.400 --> 0:26:35.080 a marmot and a flea would jump from that marmot, 0:26:35.119 --> 0:26:38.480 which would happen to be infected, which is also very rare, 0:26:38.800 --> 0:26:40.639 and then happen to by the person. It just it 0:26:41.000 --> 0:26:47.440 doesn't really happen personally. I wouldn't cuddle with a marmot, 0:26:47.840 --> 0:26:50.800 but yeah, they're probably not going to want. 0:26:50.640 --> 0:26:52.200 To cuddle with with you either. 0:26:52.240 --> 0:26:54.760 A wild marment is not going to have interest stealing 0:26:54.760 --> 0:26:57.720 your food. Yes, and you're you're not going to get 0:26:57.760 --> 0:27:00.120 sick by a marmot just running up and stealing your food, 0:27:00.160 --> 0:27:03.760 but you should still do your best to secure your 0:27:03.800 --> 0:27:09.119 food when you're hiking. But yeah, the more recent cases 0:27:09.160 --> 0:27:14.600 of plague have been from people hunting and consuming their meat, 0:27:14.760 --> 0:27:20.560 particularly raw and undercooked meat, but even that is extremely 0:27:20.600 --> 0:27:26.840 extremely rare. So Prairie dogs, which are another very rare 0:27:27.320 --> 0:27:32.680 source of the plague, are highly related to marmots. Marmots 0:27:32.720 --> 0:27:35.959 differ from perry prairie dogs because they're a lot larger. 0:27:37.040 --> 0:27:43.400 They don't have as large and strictly struct structured communes 0:27:43.440 --> 0:27:46.600 as prairie dogs do. Prairie dogs basically live in like 0:27:47.000 --> 0:27:50.280 quite large prairie dog cities, whereas marmots kind of live 0:27:50.280 --> 0:27:55.520 in smaller population marmot towns. Marmots, depending on the species, 0:27:55.560 --> 0:27:59.600