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Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet, as a production

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Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Toad and this

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Speaker 1: is there Are No Girls on the Internet. This is

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Speaker 1: There No Girls on the Internet, where we explore the

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Speaker 1: intersection of identity, technology and the Internet and Happy Pride Months.

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Speaker 1: Pride is a great time to be thinking about all

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Speaker 1: the different LGBTQ people, past, present, and future who have

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Speaker 1: been beacons of the vastness of what is possible for

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Speaker 1: our communities. And that is one of the reasons why

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Speaker 1: I really wanted to spend this time honoring computer scientist

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Speaker 1: Lynn Conway. To me, Lynn Conway really represents all three past, present,

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Speaker 1: and the future. Now. I have talked about Lynn's story

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Speaker 1: across various podcasts over the last few years, and what

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Speaker 1: strikes me is that a lot of those conversations were

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Speaker 1: about her past, but we also got to celebrate her

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Speaker 1: present and she was still alive. And I am a

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Speaker 1: big believer in giving people their flowers while they are

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Speaker 1: still here to smell them. And so now I am

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Speaker 1: left wondering about what her legacy means for the future.

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Speaker 1: And that's because Lynn Conway passed away this week from

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Speaker 1: a heart condition. At the age of eighty six, Lynn

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Speaker 1: Conway literally changed the world. All of us owe her

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Speaker 1: a debt. If you've ever used a smartphone or an iPhone,

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Speaker 1: you literally have Linn Conway to thank for that, and

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Speaker 1: her contributions were almost overlooked and were devalued. Specifically because

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Speaker 1: of her identity. Lynn Conway had a big hand in

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Speaker 1: contributing to the modern day internet and smartphones, and honestly

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Speaker 1: because of good old fashioned transphobia, her contributions were almost

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Speaker 1: overlooked completely even though she changed the world. Conway was

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Speaker 1: born in nineteen thirty eight and assigned male at birth,

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Speaker 1: but from a very early age, Lynn Conway knew that

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Speaker 1: there was more to her story as it pertains to gender.

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Speaker 1: Her mom was studying anthropology at Columbia, and Lynn, as

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Speaker 1: a child would flip through her mom's textbooks looking for

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Speaker 1: answers telling Michigan engineering news. In a really lovely profile

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Speaker 1: of her life that Will linked to in the show

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Speaker 1: notes quote, it seemed like people in other cultures had

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Speaker 1: found different ways to deal with what I knew I

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Speaker 1: was feeling, But then that became scrambled with the thought

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Speaker 1: that what I was feeling was that I was gay,

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Speaker 1: but nobody ever talked about those things. When Lynn was fourteen,

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Speaker 1: she read a news story about former Army private Christine Jorgensen,

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Speaker 1: who was known for being the first person in the

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Speaker 1: United States to publicly announce a gender transition. When Conway

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Speaker 1: saw this, she knew immediately what she wanted to do. Now,

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Speaker 1: keep in mind it was the fifties, and given what

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Speaker 1: we know about how narrowly society was dealing with and

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Speaker 1: talking about gender and identity in the fifties and sixties,

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Speaker 1: you have to wonder, you know, what was Conway's coming

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Speaker 1: of age and her journey really like, Conway initially tried

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Speaker 1: to transition while studying at MIT in the nineteen fifties.

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Speaker 1: She began taking hormones on her own and asked a

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Speaker 1: friend in the medical school at MIT if he could

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Speaker 1: help her find a doctor who could actually help her transition. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: that friend kind of sold her out. That friend took

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Speaker 1: her to a dean who told her that if she

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Speaker 1: did not stop taking hormones, she could be put in

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Speaker 1: a mental institution. Fear of being institutionalized or arrested was

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Speaker 1: a huge concern for Lynn Conway because being trans was

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Speaker 1: commonly strongly associated with being mentally ill or criminal behavior.

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Speaker 1: If you were openly trans you could end up institutionalized

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Speaker 1: or even arrested in some places, which looking forward to today,

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Speaker 1: it's one of the reasons why when people try to

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Speaker 1: equate transness with being mentally ill or criminal behavior, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's just more of the same, and it's just that

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Speaker 1: much more sad and infuriating that those are still things

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Speaker 1: that transphobes evoke to this day. So after this disappointing

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Speaker 1: turn of events for Lynn at MIT, she kind of

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Speaker 1: put transitioning at the back of her mind. She got married,

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Speaker 1: she became a parent, and she started working at IBM.

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Speaker 1: At this time in her life, she kind of seemed

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Speaker 1: to have a picture perfect life from the outside. That is,

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Speaker 1: you know, she was making major professional moves and innovations

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Speaker 1: and computing design at IBM, which at the time was

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Speaker 1: the seventh largest corporation in the entire world. While she

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Speaker 1: was at IBM, by all accounts, she was kicking ass.

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Speaker 1: She invented a hardware protocol that enabled the out of

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Speaker 1: order command processing that most computers still rely on to

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Speaker 1: this day. But all of this was put in jeopardy

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Speaker 1: because of transphobia. That would alter the trajectory of her life.

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Speaker 2: Let's take a quick break.

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Speaker 1: At her back. So, even though Conway had kind of

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Speaker 1: put the idea of transitioning the back of her mind

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Speaker 1: during this phase of her life, she kept learning about it.

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Speaker 1: She learned about the pioneering gender transition work of doctor

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Speaker 1: Harry Benjamin, an endocrinologist and sexologist known for his clinical

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Speaker 1: work with trans people, and decided I have to work

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Speaker 1: with him. So what's kind of heartbreaking about all of

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Speaker 1: this is that, according to this profile in Michigan Engineering,

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Speaker 1: Conway and her then spouse had worked out like a

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Speaker 1: pretty solid plan together for how conway transitioning would work.

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Speaker 1: Their plan was that they would get a divorce and

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Speaker 1: that Conway would start working with doctor Benjamin to transition.

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Speaker 1: Conway would pay for child support from her IBM salary

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Speaker 1: and stay in the children's lives. They actually even worked

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Speaker 1: out what the children would call her, which was they

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Speaker 1: would call her aunt. And according to a really compelling

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Speaker 1: Forbes piece by Jeremy Alessandri, Conway's immediate family and IBM's

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Speaker 1: divisional management were actually pretty accepting and supportive of this

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Speaker 1: at first. However, when IBM's corporate medical director learned that

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Speaker 1: Conway was planning to try transition in nineteen sixty eight.

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Speaker 1: He told CEO Thomas J. Watson Junior, who fired Conway,

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Speaker 1: to avoid the public embarrassment of employing a trans woman.

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Speaker 1: So this moment, you know, getting fired from your big

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Speaker 1: important job that you are kicking ass at and losing

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Speaker 1: the support of your employer began a downward spiral in

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Speaker 1: Conway's life that was completely destabilizing. She had a divorce

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Speaker 1: from her spouse while also losing her source of income,

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Speaker 1: which made it that much more difficult. California's social services

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Speaker 1: even tried to keep her away from her children, and

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Speaker 1: Conway's ex spouse decided that she could not have any

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Speaker 1: contact with the children because she was worried that if

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Speaker 1: Conway was actually in the kid's life, they would be

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Speaker 1: risking having those kids removed by the state. At the time,

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Speaker 1: Conway's kids were just babies, two years old and four

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Speaker 1: years old. This was absolutely devastating for Lynn Conway. She

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Speaker 1: recalls that poured me up. Let me tell you, the

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Speaker 1: hardest part of the whole thing was that I felt

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Speaker 1: like mom to them, She told Michigan Engineering. Lynn knew

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Speaker 1: this was going to be a tough process, and she

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Speaker 1: relied on lessons that she had learned from a lifetime

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Speaker 1: love of the outdoors and outdoor adventures like canoeing and

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Speaker 1: rock climbing to steady herself for the challenges to come.

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Speaker 1: As she described it, now, I had a plan to

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Speaker 1: get across the river. I could see the steps I'd

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Speaker 1: have to take to make it. I could see the

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Speaker 1: dangers and how to protect against them. The only problem

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Speaker 1: was I didn't know where I'd end up on the

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Speaker 1: other side. So even though it cost her her family,

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Speaker 1: her career, and her kids, she continued to work with

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Speaker 1: doctor Benjamin to transition. It was not an easy road,

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Speaker 1: as a lot of trans folks will tell you. The logistics,

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Speaker 1: you know, things like changing your name, getting new identification

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Speaker 1: and paperwork can be a big part of navigating trans identity,

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Speaker 1: you know, just establishing yourself so that you can work

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Speaker 1: and earn an income, have a bank account, and get

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Speaker 1: a place to live. Conway was dealing with all of

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Speaker 1: this decades ago. But even today this process is complicated

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Speaker 1: and sometimes prohibitively expensive, and sadly, today a lot of

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Speaker 1: trans folks do not have the support or resources to

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Speaker 1: navigate it. According to the National Transgender Discrimination Survey, only

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Speaker 1: one fifth of trans people who have transitioned have been

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Speaker 1: able to update all of their IDs and records, and

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Speaker 1: one third haven't been able to update any of their

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Speaker 1: ideas and records. So it is a real problem with

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Speaker 1: a lot of barriers. Luckily, Lynn was able to use

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Speaker 1: connections that doctor Benjamin had in Oakland to get this

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Speaker 1: navigated quickly, which was really important for her because she's

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Speaker 1: written that she wanted to avoid suspicion because that suspicion

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Speaker 1: could quickly turn unsafe. Conway wrote, you were an undocumented

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Speaker 1: alien from Mars. You don't have a birth certificate. How

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Speaker 1: are you going to get a job? This was the sixties.

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Speaker 1: You could think of it like being a spy in

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Speaker 1: a foreign country. If you were found out, you'd be

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Speaker 1: dealt with immediately, if not by the police, then by

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Speaker 1: people on the streets. So it's probably pretty clear that

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Speaker 1: why after transitioning, Conway would go into what she has

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Speaker 1: called the stealth phase of her career. So it's nineteen

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Speaker 1: sixty nine. Conway has changed her name and she's hiding

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Speaker 1: her gender identity and starting to look for work and computing,

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Speaker 1: eventually finding a job as a contract programmer and later

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Speaker 1: working at Memorrecks. But then she landed what is sort

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Speaker 1: of like the big job, like nailing the big account

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Speaker 1: in her life, which is getting a job at Xerox

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Speaker 1: pallow Alto Research Center, which was a massively huge deal. Again,

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Speaker 1: like she does, Lynn Conway just starts kicking ass professionally,

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Speaker 1: just like she had done at IBM before being fired

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Speaker 1: for being trans. During this time, she had many of

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Speaker 1: her biggest accomplishments. Her work completely revolutionized how microchips were designed.

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Speaker 1: Lynn Conway is sometimes called the hidden Hand for her

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Speaker 1: work because so much of her work led to the

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Speaker 1: tech revolution in the nineteen eighties and again is the

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Speaker 1: reason why we had things like personal computers and smartphones.

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Speaker 1: But even while accomplishing all of these massively important and

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Speaker 1: lasting innovations, she could didn't really own them because of

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Speaker 1: her identity. In a piece that she wrote for The

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Speaker 1: Huffington Post, Conway describes her stealth mode phase in life,

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Speaker 1: where she just kind of purposely stayed behind the scenes

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Speaker 1: despite creating these big innovations that literally changed the world.

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Speaker 1: During this time, Lynn Conway's trans identity was not public knowledge.

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Speaker 1: She only disclosed this to close friends, HR administrators and

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Speaker 1: security clearance administrators. She purposely kind of made herself scarce

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Speaker 1: and always was sure to stay behind the scenes, hence

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Speaker 1: that nickname the hidden Hand, and that meant that a

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Speaker 1: lot of her accomplishments and innovations, even while they were huge,

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Speaker 1: also went unnoticed. She has talked about this time in

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Speaker 1: her life as kind of feeling like a Cold War spy, saying,

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Speaker 1: you have to operate at a pretty high level pretty quickly,

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Speaker 1: or else you'll get exposed and then you're a traitor

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Speaker 1: to the whole institution, she told The Independent. But at

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Speaker 1: the same time, you have to be kind of affable

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Speaker 1: and not attract attention. You can't get angry or show fear.

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Speaker 1: So she wasn't really able to be her full self

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Speaker 1: at work, even as she was contributing to all of

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Speaker 1: these historic, lasting innovations and technological developments. But she couldn't

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Speaker 1: even really be herself and own those developments. And honestly,

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Speaker 1: this is a dynamic that is bad for all of

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Speaker 1: us because we end up truly not knowing our own history,

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Speaker 1: you know. Transphobia almost kept us from having a full

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Speaker 1: accounting of this important tech history Conway's contribution started becoming

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Speaker 1: made public almost by accident. So in nineteen ninety nine,

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Speaker 1: a computer historian began investigating her early innovations at IBM,

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Speaker 1: which tipped her off that other people were actually taking

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Speaker 1: credit for her work at IBM, and she wanted to

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Speaker 1: correct the record, but in order to do so, she

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Speaker 1: would need to open up about her identity and explain

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Speaker 1: why somebody with a different name had made all of

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Speaker 1: these big contributions and that they were out there saying

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Speaker 1: that they were actually hers. She wanted to clear up

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Speaker 1: this confusion, so she ended up telling this computer historian

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Speaker 1: and then quietly adding a section to her website with

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Speaker 1: the headline gender Transition. And this decision is what really

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Speaker 1: sparked the next chapter of her life as an advocate

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Speaker 1: for trans rights. So something that I love about Lyn

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Speaker 1: Conway's legacy is that after this point in her life,

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Speaker 1: she becomes this vocal advocate for other trans people in tech.

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Speaker 1: She has given financial support and assistance to many transwomen

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Speaker 1: going through transition, and she also has been an advocate

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Speaker 1: for employment protections for trans folks. And she was doing this,

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Speaker 1: you know, continuing this legacy of trying to make improvements

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Speaker 1: for other trans folks in tech pretty shortly before she died.

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Speaker 1: The kind of advocacy that she's done for trans folks

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Speaker 1: in tech has a lasting impact even today. In twenty thirteen,

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Speaker 1: Conway and Leandravicki of the University of North Carolina successfully

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Speaker 1: lobbied the Board of Directors at the Institute of Electrical

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Speaker 1: and Electronics Engineers, which is essentially like a code of

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Speaker 1: ethics for the engineering profession to include trans folks, which

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Speaker 1: impacts the world's largest engineering professional society. Conway's website also

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Speaker 1: served as a beacon for trans folks. According to The Independent,

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Speaker 1: for years her personal website was one of the few

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Speaker 1: places you could find clear, detailed, unprejudiced information about the

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Speaker 1: experience of being trans and the process of transition, as

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Speaker 1: well as striking examples of how trans people could find

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Speaker 1: lasting happiness and success. The Independent spoke to a woman

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Speaker 1: named Rebecca, a fifty one year old government worker in Colorado,

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Speaker 1: who was quoted as saying, it was the early two thousands.

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Speaker 1: My relationship with my girlfriend was falling apart. I was

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Speaker 1: having a hard time containing the feelings I had when

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Speaker 1: I was younger about the need to transition. Her site

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Speaker 1: wasn't the first one I found, but when I did

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Speaker 1: find it, it opened up a whole new world to me,

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Speaker 1: and I knew I wasn't alone. So Lynn Conway is

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Speaker 1: basically this world changing technological badass. So I think we

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Speaker 1: can all agree that IBM really messed up by firing

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Speaker 1: her because she was trans and after fifty years of

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Speaker 1: silence on this issue, in twenty twenty October, IBM invited

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Speaker 1: staff to an event that they called tech Trailblazer and

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Speaker 1: transgender pioneery Lynn Conway in conversation with Diane Gearson. Gearson

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Speaker 1: was IBM's senior vice president of Human Resources. The event

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Speaker 1: starts with a formal apology to Lynn Conway for her

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Speaker 1: transphobic firing fifty two years earlier. Conway was struggling to

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Speaker 1: hold back tears. Not only did IBM apologize, but they

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Speaker 1: also recognized her immense contributions to IBM's work that had

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Speaker 1: gone unattributed. Darie O'Gill, director of IBM Research, presented Lynn

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Speaker 1: Conway with a Lifetime Achievement Award, given to individuals who

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Speaker 1: have changed the world through tech innovations, and gil noted

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Speaker 1: that Lynn's extraordinary technical achievements helped define the modern computing industry,

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Speaker 1: and that she paid the way for how we design

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Speaker 1: and make computing ships today, and that she forever changed

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Speaker 1: microelectronic devices and people's lives. This is really important. IBM

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Speaker 1: acknowledged that after Conway was fired back in nineteen sixty eight,

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Speaker 1: that her research still aided IBM successes. In nineteen sixty five,

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Speaker 1: Lynn created the architectural Level Advanced Computing System one simulator

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Speaker 1: and invented a method that led to the development of

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Speaker 1: a superscalar computer. This dynamic instruction schedule invention was later

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Speaker 1: used at computer chips, greatly improving their performance. And none

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Speaker 1: of this would be possible without Lynn Conway, and these

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Speaker 1: continued contributions just went unacknowledged for decades because of bias.

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Speaker 1: More after a.

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Speaker 2: Quick break, let's get right back into it.

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Speaker 1: So when I first read about this ceremony that IBM

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Speaker 1: had acknowledging her contributions and apologizing for her firing, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's easy to read this and be kind of cynical

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Speaker 1: and be like, well, they're just doing that to get

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Speaker 1: good press. Like this was back in twenty twenty when

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Speaker 1: we were having a lot of those kinds of conversations,

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Speaker 1: But it sounds like to Lynn, this really meant a lot.

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Speaker 1: So I don't want to take anything away from that

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Speaker 1: of the event, Lynn Conway said, instead of just being

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Speaker 1: a resolution of what had happened to me in nineteen

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Speaker 1: sixty eight, it became a heartfelt group celebration of how

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Speaker 1: far we've come since then. And I guess I'm just

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Speaker 1: really happy that Lynn Conway got to have that official

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Speaker 1: apology on their record, have it be acknowledged by the

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Speaker 1: company that did her dirty decades earlier, that she was

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Speaker 1: an innovator that helped them to have future success, even

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Speaker 1: after they fired her so cruelly because of her identity. Like,

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Speaker 1: I'm so happy that they did not wait to do

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Speaker 1: that after her death, that they did that in a

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Speaker 1: way that could really include her while she was here,

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Speaker 1: you know. Of the apology, Conway said that it brought

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Speaker 1: closure to a really dark period in her life that

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Speaker 1: being fired kicked off. She said, quote even better, as

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Speaker 1: I've made friend after friend among today's ibmers, It's felt

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Speaker 1: like I was coming home home to an IBM that's

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Speaker 1: also come very far since nineteen sixty eight. In lin

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Speaker 1: Conway's later years, she did a two year stint working

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Speaker 1: on machine intelligence at the Department of Defense. After that,

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Speaker 1: she retired from working in tech and went into teaching.

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Speaker 1: She became an Associate dean for instruction and Instructional Technology

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Speaker 1: at the University of Michigan in nineteen eighty five, where

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Speaker 1: she worked until retiring in nineteen ninety eight. So after

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Speaker 1: retiring from teaching in ninety eight, it honestly sounds like

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Speaker 1: she spent her time after that just enjoying a really

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Speaker 1: beautiful life. She was married to Charlie Rodgers. She had

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Speaker 1: two children, four grandchildren, and six great grandchildren. Before her death,

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Speaker 1: she lived on twenty four beautiful acres of meadow marsh

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Speaker 1: and woodlands and rural Michigan, where her and her husband

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Speaker 1: spent their time exploring and playing in the outdoors. And

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Speaker 1: she was still engaging in activism around trans writes right

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Speaker 1: up until her death. And I'm so pleased that she

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Speaker 1: got to enjoy such a full, rich life, because trans

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Speaker 1: people deserve to live full lives that account for their

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Speaker 1: contributions and brilliance, regardless of where they are on that journey.

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Speaker 1: A big part of Lynn Conway's personal journey was about

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Speaker 1: her transition and trans folks deserve to live full lives

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Speaker 1: that account for their contributions and brilliant regardless of where

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Speaker 1: they are on a personal journey of transition. You know,

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Speaker 1: transition means many different things to many different people. It

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Speaker 1: can mean personal or medical or legal steps, things like

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Speaker 1: just telling one's friends or families or coworkers using a

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Speaker 1: different name, establishing pronouns, dressing a certain way, or changing

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Speaker 1: your name on a legal documents, which, as we've discussed,

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Speaker 1: can be prohibitively expensive for many people, and trans folks

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Speaker 1: deserve to live full lives even if they are not

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Speaker 1: able to take those steps the way that Lynn Conway did.

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Speaker 1: I'm really happy and grateful that Conway had that connection

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Speaker 1: to doctor Benjamin who could help her navigate transition. But

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Speaker 1: not everyone has the resources, access or support. And I

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Speaker 1: think Lynn Conway's story is a good example of how

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Speaker 1: living history it's all around us, and that we can't

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Speaker 1: let sexist, racist, and transphobic systems erase the accomplishments of

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Speaker 1: marginalized people. Because there's a version of this story where

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Speaker 1: we don't know about Lynn Conway's legacy and how she

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Speaker 1: contributed to all of our lives. So when I found

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Speaker 1: out about Lyn Conway and her story. I almost felt

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Speaker 1: kind of personally negligent that this was somebody who had

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Speaker 1: accomplished so much, who had basically given us technology that

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Speaker 1: I use every day today, whose name and story I

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Speaker 1: didn't even know about. And it really allowed me to

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Speaker 1: see the ways that bias can obscure the stories of

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Speaker 1: traditionally marginalized people, even if you're someone who was actively

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Speaker 1: trying to see those stories like undertold or overlooked stories

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Speaker 1: and technology are obviously my jam and I didn't know

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Speaker 1: her story, so part of me wanted to really write

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Speaker 1: this personal wrong by doing everything I could to make

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Speaker 1: sure that more people knew Lynn Conway's name and knew

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Speaker 1: her story and knew what she had given all of us.

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Speaker 1: And I wanted people to know that while she was

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Speaker 1: still alive. So I have talked about Lynn Conway's story

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Speaker 1: on several different podcasts. Maybe you've heard some of them.

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Speaker 1: And something that I loved about making those podcasts about

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Speaker 1: her life was getting to the end where I feel

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Speaker 1: like in a lot of stories, who hear about her

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Speaker 1: death or something like that, and getting to instead say

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Speaker 1: Lynn Conway is still very much alive. You can follow

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Speaker 1: Lynn Conway on Twitter, where she's very active, you know,

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Speaker 1: getting to really honor her while she was here. And

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Speaker 1: a funny thing is is that I know that she

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Speaker 1: actually got to hear some of those podcasts because she

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Speaker 1: got in touch with me before her death. In April

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Speaker 1: of twenty twenty three, after one of those podcasts aired,

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Speaker 1: she sent me a LinkedIn message saying, a friend just

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Speaker 1: shared the wonderful podcast you posted in January twenty twenty two. Wow,

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Speaker 1: you captured it ever so coolly. I'd really enjoy connecting

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Speaker 1: on LinkedIn for the long term so I can follow

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Speaker 1: your adventures as you and all your friends work to

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Speaker 1: tune up this messed up world. All the best, Linn.

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Speaker 1: It was such a sweet, affirming message of hope and resilience.

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Speaker 1: And again, I think it shows that LGBTQ history isn't

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Speaker 1: just something happening long ago. It's happening right now, right here,

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Speaker 1: all around us. And if there's someone whose legacy you

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Speaker 1: want to honor, you don't have to wait until they're

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Speaker 1: no longer here to do that. You can honor their present.

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Speaker 1: In what is believed to be her last interview with

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Speaker 1: The Independent, Lynn looked back on her legacy, saying I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of us trans people are living more interesting,

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Speaker 1: more fun lives than most people. It's our secret. We're

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Speaker 1: highly empowered in ways that people may not understand because

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Speaker 1: of the joyfulness we feel in having been able to

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Speaker 1: do what we do in spite of the difficulties and

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Speaker 1: find a place in society where we actually have joy

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Speaker 1: in just living. Conway's death was announced on Tuesday by

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Speaker 1: the University of Michigan, which said that she passed away

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Speaker 1: on June ninth, twenty twenty four. Michael Hiltick, a columnist

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Speaker 1: for the Los Angeles Times who was a friend of

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Speaker 1: Lynn for twenty five years, said that she was the

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Speaker 1: bravest person that he ever knew. IBM also honored her

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Speaker 1: legacy after death, saying, during a truly impressive life, Lynn

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Speaker 1: Conway broke down barriers for the trans community and pushed

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Speaker 1: the limits of technology through revolutionary work that is still

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Speaker 1: impacting our lives to this day. IBM Chief Human Resources

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Speaker 1: Officer Nicol Lamreau said this in a statement to Axios.

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Speaker 1: We are humbled by her continuous examples of grace and

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Speaker 1: her advocacy for others. Honestly thinking about IBM, I am

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Speaker 1: so glad that they righted their historic wrong in firing

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Speaker 1: Conway for being trans. I mean, there's a reality where

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Speaker 1: they never took accountability and probably would not have been

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Speaker 1: able to acknowledge that they had this brilliant mind making

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Speaker 1: all of these historic contributions for them, you know. Or

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Speaker 1: maybe they would have announced it in a statement after

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Speaker 1: she died. And if they had not apologized in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty and acknowledged this, what would that have looked like?

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Speaker 1: I imagine either they would have to keep quiet or

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Speaker 1: risk people really calling them out on social media being like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: don't try to give her flowers now, and y'all fired

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Speaker 1: her and never apologized for it. So I am glad

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Speaker 1: that they made that apology because it sounds like that

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Speaker 1: allowed for them to adequately honor her legacy in her

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Speaker 1: death in a way that I don't think they would

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Speaker 1: have been able to do had they never apologized. Lynn

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Speaker 1: Conway's story is one of resilience and also a story

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Speaker 1: of how things like transphobia harm trans people and stifle

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Speaker 1: tech innovation. You know how many trans technologists are being

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Speaker 1: shut out of education and jobs because of bias today,

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Speaker 1: and how many generations of role models in tech are

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Speaker 1: we missing out on I'm so glad that Lynn Conway

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Speaker 1: was a light that other folks could look to in

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Speaker 1: terms of being able to imagine the kinds of lives

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Speaker 1: and futures that are possible. Lynn Conway didn't just have

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Speaker 1: the ability to imagine new technologies that didn't yet exist,

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Speaker 1: but new realities and new futures too. Lynn lived to

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Speaker 1: be eighty six and there were probably times where she

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Speaker 1: thought she would not get to have a full, rich

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Speaker 1: future that she got to enjoy. And I want that

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Speaker 1: for everybody, all of our trans siblings, to get to

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Speaker 1: be able to dream about a full color future that

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Speaker 1: you also get to experience. As Lynn put it herself

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Speaker 1: in her piece for huff Post. Bottom line, if you

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Speaker 1: want to change the future, start living like you're already there.

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Speaker 1: If you're looking for ways to support the show, check

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Speaker 1: out our March store at tenggodi dot com slash store.

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Speaker 1: Got a story about an interesting thing in tech, or

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Speaker 1: just want to say hi, You can reach us at

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Speaker 1: Hello at tengodi dot com. You can also find transcripts

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Speaker 1: for today's episode at teng goody dot com. There Are

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Speaker 1: No Girls on the Internet was created by me bridget Come.

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Speaker 1: It's a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative edited by

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Speaker 1: Joey Pat Jonathan Strickland as our executive producer. Tari Harrison

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Speaker 1: is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Almado is our

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Speaker 1: contributing producer. I'm your host, bridget Todd. If you want

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Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app,

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Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts