1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:01,599
Speaker 1: Hey guys, Saga and Crystal here.

2
00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:05,240
Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,

3
00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:07,840
Speaker 2: and we are so excited about what that means for

4
00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:08,760
Speaker 2: the future of the show.

5
00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:10,760
Speaker 1: This is the only place where you can find honest

6
00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:13,280
Speaker 1: perspectives from the left and the right that simply does

7
00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:14,680
Speaker 1: not exist anywhere else.

8
00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:17,080
Speaker 2: So if that is something that's important to you, please

9
00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:19,599
Speaker 2: go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and

10
00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:22,800
Speaker 2: you'll get access to our full shows, unedited, ad free,

11
00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:25,600
Speaker 2: and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

12
00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:27,560
Speaker 1: We need your help to build the future of independent

13
00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:29,920
Speaker 1: news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints

14
00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:33,720
Speaker 1: dot com.

15
00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:37,159
Speaker 3: Good morning, and welcome to Breaking Points Crystal, thanks for

16
00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:37,919
Speaker 3: stepping in.

17
00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:40,320
Speaker 4: And Ryan sped today my pleasure.

18
00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:41,320
Speaker 5: We're mixing it up this week.

19
00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:43,640
Speaker 2: Tomorrow I'll be me and Ryan with the Comedy Takeover,

20
00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:45,080
Speaker 2: so everybody get excited for that.

21
00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:47,319
Speaker 3: I love that we're calling at the Comedy Takeover. It's

22
00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:49,160
Speaker 3: how I have always identified it in my head.

23
00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:51,760
Speaker 4: But now that's it's official.

24
00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:53,400
Speaker 5: We're just making a public now.

25
00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:55,200
Speaker 4: Yes, I love it all right.

26
00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:57,800
Speaker 3: So if you want to get the whole Gang's Friday

27
00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:00,520
Speaker 3: Show experience, make sure you're subscribed over at breaking points

28
00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:03,600
Speaker 3: dot com because that's where you know Soccer Pops and

29
00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:07,240
Speaker 3: sometimes too. We've got Griffin most Fridays, Crystal, so we're

30
00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:09,119
Speaker 3: having lots of fun. You get the second half of

31
00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:13,360
Speaker 3: that show in addition to early, and actually you just

32
00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:15,440
Speaker 3: get the second half of the show. Nobody else gets

33
00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:17,720
Speaker 3: to see it unless your premium sits or whatever. So

34
00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:20,240
Speaker 3: make sure to subscribe over there in addition to getting

35
00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:23,360
Speaker 3: the show early every single day in your inbox over

36
00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:26,399
Speaker 3: on breakingpoints dot com.

37
00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:27,800
Speaker 4: Big newsweek, Crystal.

38
00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:31,839
Speaker 3: Obviously, the UN General Assembly is going down and Donald

39
00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:35,679
Speaker 3: Trump had a hell of a speech yesterday. Trumpion in

40
00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:39,280
Speaker 3: all of the most predictable ways, and yet still manages

41
00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:41,600
Speaker 3: at least managed to surprise me.

42
00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:44,759
Speaker 4: I don't know about you, Christal, that was something else.

43
00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:48,280
Speaker 2: I don't know what surprises me anymore, but yeah, it was.

44
00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:50,680
Speaker 2: You know, there was there was an escalator scandal that

45
00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:52,360
Speaker 2: we'll get to the bottom of as well. There was

46
00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:54,880
Speaker 2: a teleprompter scandal that we can dig into. So a

47
00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:57,440
Speaker 2: lot of moving pieces there. Let's say, wow, we're not

48
00:01:57,480 --> 00:01:59,840
Speaker 2: moving I thought you did that earlier.

49
00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:06,120
Speaker 3: Also, well, Crystal, maybe you should be writing jokes for

50
00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:08,519
Speaker 3: Kimmel I think they might be better if you're writing.

51
00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:12,920
Speaker 5: Jokes for Kimmel, writing Dad jokes for Ryan maybe is more.

52
00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:15,799
Speaker 3: Like Ryan doesn't need a writer. They're all right off

53
00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:19,200
Speaker 3: the dome. It's incredible what he's capable of. Jimmy Kimmel

54
00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:23,520
Speaker 3: returned to the airwaves last night, although not everyone's airwaves

55
00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:28,040
Speaker 3: because Sinclair and Next our affiliates are still not running Kimmel.

56
00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:32,079
Speaker 3: But we have a breakdown of Kimmel's return, what he said,

57
00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:37,160
Speaker 3: how the President responded, and where we go from here.

58
00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:39,119
Speaker 4: Kamala Harris is on a book tour.

59
00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:42,120
Speaker 3: She's a book called One hundred and seven Days Out

60
00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:47,000
Speaker 3: and is basically face planting in every media appearance, major

61
00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:50,880
Speaker 3: media appearance that she does. So we have some interesting

62
00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:54,880
Speaker 3: updates on that front. Looking like for her, Oh.

63
00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:56,440
Speaker 2: That's just kind of what she does, that's her thing.

64
00:02:57,360 --> 00:02:59,280
Speaker 2: Doing a terrible job in interviews.

65
00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:01,280
Speaker 3: And I'm excited for this segment and also the second

66
00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:03,840
Speaker 3: we're going to do on Alexandro Kazu. Kurtz has Crystal

67
00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:06,680
Speaker 3: to get some of your insights on where democrats are

68
00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:08,640
Speaker 3: right now. It looks like AOC is teeming up with

69
00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:13,920
Speaker 3: Kevin Newsom to take on some of the redistricting fights,

70
00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:17,239
Speaker 3: so that'll be I'm eager to hear what you think

71
00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:19,600
Speaker 3: of that, Crystal, because there's all kinds of stuff to

72
00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:23,080
Speaker 3: dive into. Wanda Vive Rojas is joining us to discuss

73
00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:27,320
Speaker 3: his new compact piece on Argentina, which is getting a

74
00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:32,520
Speaker 3: US bailout as the market started to dip. We have

75
00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:38,080
Speaker 3: some updates on the Mela situation and Crystal. Also some

76
00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:43,920
Speaker 3: updates on from Turning Point USA World on what was

77
00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:46,640
Speaker 3: going on behind the scenes as.

78
00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:48,040
Speaker 4: It relates to Israel.

79
00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:52,920
Speaker 3: Charlie Kirk in the weeks and months before his death.

80
00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:57,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, very interesting revelations there from one of Charlie's closest

81
00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:01,480
Speaker 2: friends and executive producer. Obviously, there's been great interest in

82
00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:04,960
Speaker 2: the pressure that Charlie was under in his final months,

83
00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:07,320
Speaker 2: especially after NAT and Yahoo came out and tried to

84
00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:11,720
Speaker 2: claim him as his firmest and strongest constant ally and

85
00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:16,320
Speaker 2: really used Charlie's legacy and molded for his own aim.

86
00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:18,840
Speaker 2: So in any case, some interesting revelations there that kind

87
00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:21,760
Speaker 2: of backs up some reporting from Max Plumenthal over at

88
00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:24,120
Speaker 2: Gray Zone. So we'll get into all of that. I'm

89
00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:25,800
Speaker 2: sure people will be quite interested.

90
00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:26,080
Speaker 4: That's right.

91
00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:29,480
Speaker 3: Let's start with the United Nations speech yesterday that Donald

92
00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:33,960
Speaker 3: Trump gave, and also some updates on Trump and Ukraine.

93
00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:36,520
Speaker 3: He sat down with Zelenski yesterday and then posted on

94
00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,120
Speaker 3: True Social So we're going to get into all of that.

95
00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:43,280
Speaker 3: But first, Christal, the way that I understood Donald Trump's spech,

96
00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:45,400
Speaker 3: the way that I came to frame in my own

97
00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:48,880
Speaker 3: mind I was as I was digesting it his speech,

98
00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:51,720
Speaker 3: was that on the one hand, he's making this deep

99
00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:56,760
Speaker 3: structural criticism of the geopolitical elite of the United Nations.

100
00:04:56,800 --> 00:04:58,560
Speaker 3: He's doing it as people will hear in just one

101
00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:01,520
Speaker 3: moment to their faces. And then he's also swinging for

102
00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:04,839
Speaker 3: the fences and looking for a noble peace prize. So

103
00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:08,600
Speaker 3: it's an interesting combination of goals. The complaint, let's go

104
00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:11,560
Speaker 3: ahead and enroll this compilation of some of the big

105
00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:12,400
Speaker 3: moments from the speech.

106
00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:14,440
Speaker 6: Your countries are being ruined.

107
00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:18,760
Speaker 7: The United Nations is funding an assault on Western countries

108
00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:23,520
Speaker 7: and their borders. In twenty twenty four, the UN budgeted

109
00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:26,920
Speaker 7: three hundred and seventy two million dollars in cash assistance

110
00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:31,080
Speaker 7: to support and estimated six hundred and twenty four thousand

111
00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:34,800
Speaker 7: migrants journeying into the United States.

112
00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:36,719
Speaker 6: I'm not mentioning names.

113
00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:39,440
Speaker 7: I see it, and I could call every single one

114
00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:44,440
Speaker 7: of them. You're destroying your countries. They're being destroyed. Europe

115
00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:47,960
Speaker 7: is in serious trouble. They've been invaded by a force

116
00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:51,520
Speaker 7: of illegal aliens like nobody's ever seen before.

117
00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:54,479
Speaker 6: It's time to end the failed experiment of open borders.

118
00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:56,080
Speaker 6: You have to end it now. Let see.

119
00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:59,000
Speaker 7: I can tell you I'm really good at this stuff.

120
00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:03,960
Speaker 7: Your countries going to hell. The American public agrees with it.

121
00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:06,160
Speaker 7: I mean, I was very proud to see this morning.

122
00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:08,279
Speaker 7: I have the highest poll numbers I've ever had. Part

123
00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:11,040
Speaker 7: of it is because of what we've done on the border,

124
00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:12,640
Speaker 7: I guess. The other part is what we've done in

125
00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:17,279
Speaker 7: the economy. It's the greatest con job ever perpetrated.

126
00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:18,080
Speaker 6: On the world in my opinion.

127
00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:21,960
Speaker 7: Climate change, no matter what happens, you're involved in that.

128
00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:25,960
Speaker 7: No more global warming, no more global cooling. All of

129
00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:30,680
Speaker 7: these predictions made by the United Nations and many others,

130
00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:32,000
Speaker 7: often for bad reasons.

131
00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:33,040
Speaker 6: We're wrong.

132
00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:37,480
Speaker 7: They were made by stupid people that of course their

133
00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:41,120
Speaker 7: country's fortunes and given those same countries no chance for success.

134
00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:44,600
Speaker 7: If you don't get away from this green scam, your

135
00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:45,839
Speaker 7: country is going to fail.

136
00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:48,599
Speaker 4: So an absolute banger. Has everyone just heard?

137
00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:52,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, indeed telling every other country that they're destroying their countries.

138
00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:53,400
Speaker 5: They're going to hell.

139
00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:56,120
Speaker 2: I mean, just think about Trump's record year and what

140
00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:58,080
Speaker 2: he's done to this country with one of the things

141
00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:01,200
Speaker 2: we consider covering is you know, have sixty plus percent

142
00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:04,160
Speaker 2: of Americans saying they're worse off this year than they

143
00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:08,000
Speaker 2: were previously. Wrong track numbers are off the charts. So

144
00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:10,120
Speaker 2: just in terms of the well being of Americans in

145
00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:12,760
Speaker 2: the here and now, Trump's complete disasters, I don't think

146
00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:15,680
Speaker 2: he's in any condition or in any position to lecture

147
00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,400
Speaker 2: the rest of the world, not to mention the undermining

148
00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:20,000
Speaker 2: of what, in my opinion, are some of the best

149
00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:23,200
Speaker 2: things about America, the freedoms we enjoy, the freedom of speech,

150
00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:24,920
Speaker 2: the sense that you know, the government is going to

151
00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:28,680
Speaker 2: aspire to be neutral, that there's going to be representative government.

152
00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:32,000
Speaker 2: And then you also have on the geopolitical space stage,

153
00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:35,200
Speaker 2: which is very relevant of course at at the UN

154
00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:40,280
Speaker 2: him effectively aligning the entire world against us and you know,

155
00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:46,040
Speaker 2: hastening the rise of a multipolar world, which hey may

156
00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:48,120
Speaker 2: actually end up being better for the world, but maybe

157
00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:50,400
Speaker 2: not the best for American interests.

158
00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:51,120
Speaker 5: So that's one thing.

159
00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:55,280
Speaker 2: The other thing that is galling to me, Emily is

160
00:07:56,080 --> 00:08:01,000
Speaker 2: the two major policy themes were around and climate change,

161
00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:03,800
Speaker 2: which he considers to be a complete total hoax, and

162
00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:07,360
Speaker 2: then migration. And I think you and I are probably

163
00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:10,120
Speaker 2: in a different place on migration, but perhaps this part

164
00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:11,880
Speaker 2: you could agree with, which I don't know if there's

165
00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:14,680
Speaker 2: any country in the world that is more committed to

166
00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:19,120
Speaker 2: creating migration crises than the United States of America. I mean,

167
00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:22,840
Speaker 2: we are currently working with Israel to try to expel

168
00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:26,840
Speaker 2: all two million Palestinians from Gaza to go somewhere else.

169
00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:31,960
Speaker 2: We are threatening Venezuela right now with another regime change war.

170
00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:34,760
Speaker 2: And you know, certainly the list could go on of

171
00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:39,160
Speaker 2: places where we have created tumult and turmoil, and you know,

172
00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:42,920
Speaker 2: the conditions for refugee crises, Syria being a key one

173
00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:45,640
Speaker 2: among them, which is you know, part of what upbended

174
00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:48,439
Speaker 2: European politics. I wanted to ask you too about the

175
00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:52,040
Speaker 2: climate change piece. It seems to me that there was

176
00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:54,720
Speaker 2: a time when Republicans were all in on climate changes

177
00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:58,440
Speaker 2: a hoax. Then it felt a little bit like we

178
00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:01,720
Speaker 2: better least acknowledged this is real while throwing up a

179
00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:04,960
Speaker 2: million roadblocks to not do anything about it. And now

180
00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:07,560
Speaker 2: we're back with Trump just full on being like, you know,

181
00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:10,560
Speaker 2: this is a hoax, there's nothing to see here, and

182
00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:13,000
Speaker 2: you guys are destroying your countries in service of something

183
00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:13,880
Speaker 2: that's completely fake.

184
00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:18,720
Speaker 3: I don't know if that endures beyond Trump, to be honest.

185
00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:21,600
Speaker 3: I mean, it's hard to say, but when you look

186
00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:26,360
Speaker 3: at the kind of next generation of Republican politicians, especially

187
00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:29,200
Speaker 3: like a JD. Vance who's kind of from tech world,

188
00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:33,679
Speaker 3: my assumption is that nobody is going to get on

189
00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:37,720
Speaker 3: the climate change bandwagon, but will probably be a bit

190
00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:41,520
Speaker 3: more I don't know, maybe nuanced is the word, because

191
00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:46,199
Speaker 3: they're also tied into the business community, which has some serious,

192
00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:49,800
Speaker 3: obviously serious concerns in front of them when it comes

193
00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:52,720
Speaker 3: to different changes obviously that they have.

194
00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:53,280
Speaker 4: To worry about.

195
00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:57,319
Speaker 3: If they're you know, real estate, if they're in different businesses,

196
00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:01,160
Speaker 3: it matters to them. Also on the mic point, I

197
00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:05,120
Speaker 3: think that just captures Trump in a nutshell, and for me,

198
00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:09,560
Speaker 3: it captures my It's a representative of my entire reaction

199
00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:12,200
Speaker 3: to that speech, which is he's saying some things about

200
00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:15,400
Speaker 3: the United Nations that are just like right on the money,

201
00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:18,280
Speaker 3: and it's satisfying as someone on the right to see

202
00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:21,679
Speaker 3: them being said to the face of the United Nations

203
00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:22,360
Speaker 3: or he's like.

204
00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:25,280
Speaker 4: At what point, what is the point of the United Nations?

205
00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:27,480
Speaker 3: Or like what is the purpose of the United Nations?

206
00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:28,719
Speaker 4: He's like, what do you what do.

207
00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:31,120
Speaker 3: You guys actually do, which, again, as someone on the right,

208
00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:34,319
Speaker 3: is fairly satisfying to hear that from a United States president.

209
00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:37,720
Speaker 3: On the other hand, I'm just a migration issue alone.

210
00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:41,320
Speaker 3: Agree with your critiques and then also agree with the

211
00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:44,520
Speaker 3: critique of the United Nations, which is that they were

212
00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:49,920
Speaker 3: basically complicit in a lot of the trafficking that happened.

213
00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:53,439
Speaker 3: I remember years ago going through their disbursements just I

214
00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:54,920
Speaker 3: don't know if it was a tip or something that

215
00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:56,880
Speaker 3: led me to like going through their disbursements, but it's

216
00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:59,400
Speaker 3: just an incredible amount of money that spent, you know,

217
00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:01,520
Speaker 3: for example, making it easier for people to go through

218
00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:05,360
Speaker 3: the dairyen gap, and it's awful what people experience going

219
00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:07,720
Speaker 3: through the dairy and gap. And people ended up coming

220
00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:11,120
Speaker 3: in higher numbers as the UN was stepping in more

221
00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:14,520
Speaker 3: and more to provide things like debit cards and protective

222
00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:18,360
Speaker 3: measures and going through some of these parts. So it's

223
00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:20,760
Speaker 3: with Trump, it's this, and I think a lot of

224
00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:23,680
Speaker 3: populists have this. It's it's it's funny even on the

225
00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:27,240
Speaker 3: tariffs too. You look at it and you're like, well,

226
00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:32,120
Speaker 3: he's at least correct about this critique that nobody else

227
00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:32,800
Speaker 3: will talk about.

228
00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:35,480
Speaker 4: He's like, nobody else would say what he's saying.

229
00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:38,640
Speaker 3: And then it's all the way it's manifest is just

230
00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:43,120
Speaker 3: like completely insane. So you get a little satisfaction out

231
00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:44,800
Speaker 3: of him being like, what are you guys doing? And

232
00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:46,840
Speaker 3: then on the other hand, it's like, okay, but what

233
00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:47,520
Speaker 3: are you doing?

234
00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:49,240
Speaker 5: Yeah?

235
00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:52,920
Speaker 2: Well there was one part that was again quite galling

236
00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:55,640
Speaker 2: to me on the immigration piece, because he made some

237
00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:59,000
Speaker 2: comment about like, you know, will be compassion, we want

238
00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:02,000
Speaker 2: to help you in your country, and I'm like, first

239
00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:05,160
Speaker 2: of all, bullshit, because yeah, you're committed to waging all

240
00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:08,720
Speaker 2: these regime change wars and you know Iran and Venezuela

241
00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:12,000
Speaker 2: and like I said, in Gaza, and you know, not

242
00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:16,280
Speaker 2: to mention his involvement the past involvement of US presidence

243
00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:18,080
Speaker 2: in Syria and all of those sorts of things. But

244
00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:20,440
Speaker 2: in addition, you know, it's not like I'm the biggest

245
00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:22,480
Speaker 2: USAID fan, and as a leftist, I don't have my

246
00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:25,640
Speaker 2: own critique of USAID. But it is also true that

247
00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:31,080
Speaker 2: the destruction of that agency has created mass harm, you know,

248
00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:33,640
Speaker 2: on a basic level in a lot of poor countries,

249
00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:36,720
Speaker 2: which again can lead to you know, further suffering and

250
00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:40,880
Speaker 2: more migration crises, if that is your concern. So I

251
00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:43,679
Speaker 2: don't know, I mean, it's a fool's errand to try

252
00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:48,120
Speaker 2: to ring any sort of consistency or principle from a

253
00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:51,560
Speaker 2: Trumpian speech. But it was certainly, you know, it was

254
00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:56,520
Speaker 2: certainly like unvarnished and insane in many ways. And like

255
00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:59,520
Speaker 2: I said before, the idea that this man who has

256
00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:02,240
Speaker 2: done so much much destruction to the best parts of

257
00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:05,720
Speaker 2: the American project and to the you know, basic like

258
00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:09,120
Speaker 2: livelihoods of millions of Americans who feel themselves slipping behind.

259
00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:13,720
Speaker 2: See the you know, the jobless, the job numbers falling off,

260
00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:18,120
Speaker 2: inflation coming back, the chaos and turmoil of the tariff regime,

261
00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:20,720
Speaker 2: which you know, if done appropriately, it might have been helpful,

262
00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:23,480
Speaker 2: but instead we're actually seeing a decline in manufacturing jobs.

263
00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:25,840
Speaker 2: The idea of this man lecturing the rest of the

264
00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:27,599
Speaker 2: world is so absurd to me.

265
00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:32,920
Speaker 3: Let's get to this escalator subplot, because it's not entirely unimportant.

266
00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:34,840
Speaker 3: So we can roll a two on the screen. If

267
00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:37,439
Speaker 3: you're listening and you haven't seen this clip yet. As

268
00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:41,319
Speaker 3: soon as Milania Trump and Donald Trump step onto the escalator,

269
00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:45,400
Speaker 3: it stops. Melania Trump kind of looks around and Donald

270
00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:47,679
Speaker 3: Trump kind of looks around, and finally they just start

271
00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:52,240
Speaker 3: walking up the escalator. This led to all kinds of

272
00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:58,120
Speaker 3: conspiracy theories. Crystal, when an escalator at a you know,

273
00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:02,199
Speaker 3: major building, president of United States steps on it with

274
00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:05,280
Speaker 3: timing like that goes off. I actually do kind of

275
00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:07,439
Speaker 3: understand why people are asking what's going on. We could

276
00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:09,600
Speaker 3: put a two B up on the screen. It was

277
00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:16,760
Speaker 3: unfortunately timed with this story from the Sunday Times that said,

278
00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:19,520
Speaker 3: quote to mark Trump's arrival, you and staff members have

279
00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:23,520
Speaker 3: joked that they may turn off the escalators and elevators

280
00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:27,160
Speaker 3: and simply tell him they ran out of money, so

281
00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:31,240
Speaker 3: he has to walk up the stairs. And then, of course,

282
00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:35,880
Speaker 3: the escalator actually did stop as the President and first

283
00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:38,400
Speaker 3: lady walked onto it. Some people were taking this in

284
00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:40,600
Speaker 3: a more serious direction and saying it could have been

285
00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:47,200
Speaker 3: part of a nefarious, potential plot to hurt Trump and

286
00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:50,120
Speaker 3: the First Lady in some way by causing them to

287
00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:53,720
Speaker 3: stop in their tracks in a predictable way that someone

288
00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:58,360
Speaker 3: could exploit the obviously, The Sunday Time says that as

289
00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:00,720
Speaker 3: part of a prank, that or that it may have

290
00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:02,320
Speaker 3: been part of a prank, that people were joking about

291
00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:03,280
Speaker 3: whether it was part of a prank.

292
00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:04,880
Speaker 4: Reuters had a report.

293
00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:08,400
Speaker 3: Someone at the UN said it was because the UN

294
00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:11,160
Speaker 3: spokesperson said it was a built in safety mechanism on

295
00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:12,840
Speaker 3: the comb step that was triggered at the top of

296
00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:16,640
Speaker 3: the escalator. They're saying by Trump's videographer who was backing

297
00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:22,600
Speaker 3: up to capture them going up the escalator. Unfortunate timing

298
00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:27,200
Speaker 3: that there were leaks about the potential pranks, though Crystal

299
00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:28,880
Speaker 3: in the Sunday Times.

300
00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:30,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, in the subtext is Trump knows he's so

301
00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:33,600
Speaker 2: hated by so many people that it's entirely plausible that

302
00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:35,600
Speaker 2: some intern was like, let me see if there's a

303
00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:37,680
Speaker 2: way I can just like mildly fuck with this guy,

304
00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:42,360
Speaker 2: you know, then it And then additionally, during his speech

305
00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:47,520
Speaker 2: at one portion his teleprompter was not working and he

306
00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:50,200
Speaker 2: said something about you know, the teleprompter operator is going

307
00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:51,960
Speaker 2: to be in big trouble again.

308
00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:52,920
Speaker 5: If this is true.

309
00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:55,080
Speaker 2: The reporting is that it actually is like one of

310
00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:58,000
Speaker 2: his staffers that's running the teleprompter, which would make sense

311
00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:00,640
Speaker 2: because if it's your guy, and you understand in the speech,

312
00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:03,360
Speaker 2: you know, the cadence like, you would probably want your

313
00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:05,520
Speaker 2: person in there. So in any case, I don't know

314
00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:07,720
Speaker 2: if there were any conspiracies.

315
00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:08,400
Speaker 5: Afoot, but he felt that they were.

316
00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:11,520
Speaker 2: He felt targeted and aggrieved, as he often does.

317
00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:14,560
Speaker 3: One of the best VIEEP episodes, one of the best

318
00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:17,880
Speaker 3: VIEP plot lines is when this happens to Selena Meyer

319
00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:21,760
Speaker 3: and Trump handled it arguably even better. It was riffing

320
00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:27,240
Speaker 3: wildly during that speech yesterday, not surprisingly, but wildly nonetheless,

321
00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:30,480
Speaker 3: and it gets to Trump's this idea that maybe it

322
00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:33,240
Speaker 3: was on purpose. It's sort of like Trump's central frustration

323
00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:35,640
Speaker 3: with the United Nations, which is that the United States

324
00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:38,880
Speaker 3: has been the single biggest funder of the United Nations

325
00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:43,920
Speaker 3: for years is still US support is a significant chunk

326
00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:47,640
Speaker 3: of the UN's total budget. I think it's somewhere between

327
00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:50,120
Speaker 3: twenty five percent, so a quarter and a third. It's

328
00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:53,400
Speaker 3: a huge chunk of the budget, and then you have

329
00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:55,880
Speaker 3: them joking in the Sunday Times but just you know,

330
00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:58,040
Speaker 3: flipping the switch on the ascal later.

331
00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:02,440
Speaker 2: It illus, well, I think that's a reference to under

332
00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:06,840
Speaker 2: this Trump administration, they've withheld a significant amount of funds

333
00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:09,640
Speaker 2: to the tune of like billions of dollars. So that's

334
00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:12,120
Speaker 2: why that's where the joke comes from, is like, oh, well,

335
00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:14,560
Speaker 2: we're cash dropped because you guys aren't paying your bills.

336
00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:16,399
Speaker 2: So maybe we just don't have the money to run

337
00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:17,439
Speaker 2: the escalator anymore.

338
00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:19,960
Speaker 5: That's the that's the idea there.

339
00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:23,720
Speaker 3: Right, And so Trump sat down also with Zelenski for

340
00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:27,520
Speaker 3: a conversation and then posted on True Social what seemed

341
00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:30,080
Speaker 3: to many people to feel like a total one to

342
00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:32,440
Speaker 3: eighty on Ukraine war policy.

343
00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:34,280
Speaker 4: We can put a four on the screen.

344
00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:37,399
Speaker 3: This is from Donald Trump saying, after getting to know

345
00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:40,760
Speaker 3: and fully understand, I can't even read this crystalence is

346
00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:44,680
Speaker 3: so it's just so I don't even know what's what's

347
00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:47,719
Speaker 3: the right word for it is, it's it's so transparent.

348
00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:51,320
Speaker 3: Fully understand the Ukraine Russia military and economic situation, and

349
00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:53,879
Speaker 3: after seeing the economic trouble is causing Russia, I think

350
00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:56,159
Speaker 3: Ukraine with the support of the European Union is in

351
00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:59,879
Speaker 3: a position to fight and win all of Ukraine back

352
00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:04,000
Speaker 3: in its original form, with time, patients and the financial

353
00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,520
Speaker 3: support of Europe and in particular NATO. The original borders

354
00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:09,480
Speaker 3: from where this war started is very much an option.

355
00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:10,119
Speaker 4: Why not.

356
00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:12,960
Speaker 3: He goes on to say Russia has been finding aimlessly

357
00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:15,360
Speaker 3: for three and a half years. It talks more about

358
00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:23,960
Speaker 3: that this caused understandably in immediate sort of chaos in

359
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,760
Speaker 3: the news cycles. People says it's a US policy on

360
00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:30,879
Speaker 3: Ukraine completely changing, which, of course you have to read

361
00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:35,040
Speaker 3: into the President of the United States, his posts and

362
00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:38,040
Speaker 3: his statements on this. You can't ignore it. Chris, So

363
00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:42,040
Speaker 3: my immediate reaction was A what the hell? And b

364
00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:45,240
Speaker 3: that Trump is at the United Nations making this pitch

365
00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:48,199
Speaker 3: that he's the big peacemaker. He's talking about how he

366
00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:50,439
Speaker 3: solved all of these conflicts. That was another part of

367
00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:53,040
Speaker 3: his speech. It was actually a big theme in his speech.

368
00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:56,720
Speaker 3: And he's surrounded by world leaders that he wants to

369
00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:58,880
Speaker 3: have the respect is not the right word.

370
00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:00,680
Speaker 4: He wants them to sort of kissed the ring.

371
00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:04,760
Speaker 3: And there he is frustrated that he's not able to

372
00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:06,879
Speaker 3: get an end to this conflict. And decides to try

373
00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:10,720
Speaker 3: a new tactic and just be like, yeah, yep, original borders.

374
00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:13,480
Speaker 3: That's what we're fighting for in Ukraine. Now, everything that

375
00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:17,240
Speaker 3: we've said up to this point about negotiating, Nope, we're

376
00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:20,440
Speaker 3: going to stay in it until Zelenski has every inch

377
00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:22,960
Speaker 3: of the original border, which is like sort of the

378
00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:27,240
Speaker 3: John Bolton dream. It sounds pretty obviously to me like

379
00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:30,960
Speaker 3: a transparent negotiating tactic that I.

380
00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:32,480
Speaker 4: Compared it when we were talking yesterday.

381
00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:34,720
Speaker 3: So when like a five year old learns how to

382
00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:38,840
Speaker 3: do a high down low too slow and you've done

383
00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:44,439
Speaker 3: it like twenty times with them and they still think yeah, yeah,

384
00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:46,160
Speaker 3: it's just sort of felt like that.

385
00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:47,280
Speaker 6: Yeah.

386
00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:49,080
Speaker 2: I mean, he's been all over the place with regard

387
00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:52,040
Speaker 2: to Ukraine and Russia, and you know, I think really

388
00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:56,600
Speaker 2: believed that he had this special relationship with Vladimir Putin

389
00:19:56,680 --> 00:20:00,520
Speaker 2: and that he could use his grand negotiating skills to

390
00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:03,000
Speaker 2: come in and that this would be easy to solve.

391
00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:06,480
Speaker 2: And it's anything but easy to solve, you know, it's not.

392
00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:06,399
Speaker 5: It's not.

393
00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:12,040
Speaker 2: An uncomplicated situation, especially you know, at this point in

394
00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:16,640
Speaker 2: the conflict, so where you would have to force Ukraine

395
00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:20,000
Speaker 2: to take some very significant concessions that would be ugly

396
00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:22,880
Speaker 2: and that would be frankly, wildly unjust. I mean, that's

397
00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:26,000
Speaker 2: just that's where we are, and he has, you know,

398
00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:28,640
Speaker 2: he's not been willing to do that, and so now

399
00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:33,280
Speaker 2: we're back to like the most sort of hawkish, hardline position.

400
00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:34,439
Speaker 5: And it wasn't just this.

401
00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:37,240
Speaker 2: There was also a joint I don't know if you

402
00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:39,879
Speaker 2: call it a press conference, but a brief press avail

403
00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:44,040
Speaker 2: with Stelenski himself, and Trump got asked, okay, well, if

404
00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:47,040
Speaker 2: you've got NATO countries and Russia's flying drugs over them,

405
00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:47,840
Speaker 2: what should they do?

406
00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:50,159
Speaker 5: And he said, well, they should shoot him down. And

407
00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:51,360
Speaker 5: even Selensky.

408
00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:54,400
Speaker 2: Looked sort of surprised that he made that comment at

409
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:56,760
Speaker 2: that moment, because of course, of you know, if you

410
00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:00,119
Speaker 2: get a NATO country dragged into this, then you have

411
00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:03,800
Speaker 2: significant treaty obligations from the United States of America, which

412
00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:07,600
Speaker 2: is why this is also incredibly fraud and incredibly dangerous.

413
00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:10,840
Speaker 2: So I can only imagine how much Soccer is losing

414
00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:14,000
Speaker 2: his mind right now about this complete and total one

415
00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:17,760
Speaker 2: eighty from Trump based on some of the some of

416
00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:19,840
Speaker 2: the comments that he made on the campaign trail. Though

417
00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:21,439
Speaker 2: I have to say, even on the campaign trail, he

418
00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:24,240
Speaker 2: was never completely consistent. But this was a major issue

419
00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:27,160
Speaker 2: with the Republican base. You know, they really thought that

420
00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:30,080
Speaker 2: the Biden approach to Ukraine had been a disaster. They

421
00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:32,960
Speaker 2: really wanted someone to come in and force a negotiated

422
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:36,560
Speaker 2: solution on Ukraine. It seemed at the beginning after that

423
00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:39,680
Speaker 2: like Oval office blow up and you know, public humiliation

424
00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:42,840
Speaker 2: ritual of Zelenski, that perhaps that was direction that things

425
00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,160
Speaker 2: are headed in. And now you've got, like I said,

426
00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:50,040
Speaker 2: a complete one eighty here to the most hawkish possible position,

427
00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:52,480
Speaker 2: because I assume when he says, you know, the original lines,

428
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:54,520
Speaker 2: I assume he means crimea as well, which.

429
00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:56,720
Speaker 5: Is a wild position to take.

430
00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,560
Speaker 2: And let's also be clear that, you know, if he's

431
00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:01,560
Speaker 2: serious about that, and I think you're right, it's a

432
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,080
Speaker 2: negotiating tactic, but we also have to take you know,

433
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:05,879
Speaker 2: this president does some wild things, and we have to

434
00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:09,320
Speaker 2: take him seriously at his words. At this point, what

435
00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:13,919
Speaker 2: the requirement from US involvement in order to actually effectuate

436
00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:18,240
Speaker 2: that outcome? It would be extraordinary, would be absolutely extraordinary

437
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:21,680
Speaker 2: at this point. Now he's right that Russia hasn't made

438
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:25,959
Speaker 2: like tremendous gains in the last little while. I wouldn't

439
00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:28,680
Speaker 2: say it's a total stalemate. They have made some gains

440
00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:33,280
Speaker 2: and they have more both manpower and you know, industrial

441
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:36,720
Speaker 2: capacity and resources to be able to drag this thing

442
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,760
Speaker 2: down and prevail in the end. But yeah, what he's

443
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:43,560
Speaker 2: floating here would be incredible escalation in terms of US

444
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:46,119
Speaker 2: involvement if he's actually serious about that outcome.

445
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:49,240
Speaker 3: And in a nuclear conflict. Again that it seems so

446
00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:52,359
Speaker 3: ridiculous to say that, but a potential nuclear conflict and

447
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:56,399
Speaker 3: Trump one of the places he does talk more sensitively

448
00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:59,040
Speaker 3: about is one of the areas in which he is

449
00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,760
Speaker 3: I think more attuned to the general public then your

450
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:06,000
Speaker 3: average politician here in DC is that it's not a

451
00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:09,920
Speaker 3: joke to mess with other nuclear powers and saying that

452
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:12,240
Speaker 3: you're gonna fight for every inch of Ukraine's original border

453
00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:17,880
Speaker 3: is messing with nuclear powers and a negotiating tactic. He's

454
00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,520
Speaker 3: he's like Jekyl and Hyde, but it's like John Bolton

455
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:23,440
Speaker 3: and Tucker Carlson. You never know exactly what you're gonna

456
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:25,760
Speaker 3: go with you One day he's like, he s sounds

457
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:29,680
Speaker 3: like Tucker and the other day he sounds like John Bolton. Obviously,

458
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,919
Speaker 3: I think we're you know, always rightfully cover it as

459
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:38,880
Speaker 3: his sometimes very thinly veiled negotiating methods, but it's still

460
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:42,560
Speaker 3: obviously has a serious effect. And my last takeaway before

461
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:44,919
Speaker 3: we bring the guests in is I think just wrapping

462
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:45,760
Speaker 3: a bow on all of this.

463
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:47,159
Speaker 4: The man really.

464
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 3: Wants a Nobel Peace Prize. He really wants a Nobel

465
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:50,400
Speaker 3: Peace Prize.

466
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:53,880
Speaker 2: And yeah, we did the typical Trumpian thing of being like,

467
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:55,800
Speaker 2: you know, I should get a Nobel Peace Prize for this,

468
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:57,119
Speaker 2: now that I care about the awards.

469
00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:59,320
Speaker 5: It's not about that. It's not about the people. It's

470
00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:00,639
Speaker 5: about bringing peace to the people.

471
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:03,040
Speaker 2: And it's like, in his of course list of the

472
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:06,719
Speaker 2: conflicts that he's allegedly solved, he includes you know, Iran

473
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:09,359
Speaker 2: and Israel as if oh, they're all best friends.

474
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:10,639
Speaker 5: Now we're never going to have a flare up.

475
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 2: Then again, even as Israel is like preparing right now

476
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:16,680
Speaker 2: to Bambaran again likely and drag us right back into

477
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:20,359
Speaker 2: this whole thing, includes in there that India Pakistan sees fire,

478
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 2: which both Indian and Pakistan are like, bro, you had

479
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 2: nothing to do with this. So in any case, if

480
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:28,240
Speaker 2: you're wondering how legit his claims are to be such

481
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:31,760
Speaker 2: a great peacemaker. I offer you those two examples as

482
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:37,000
Speaker 2: emblematic of the you know, of the accuracy of the

483
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 2: speech overall, what.

484
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 4: Let's get to Gaza and bring our guest.

485
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:45,440
Speaker 2: In fortunate to be joined this morning by Anthony Lowenstein.

486
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:49,400
Speaker 2: He's an independent journalist and filmmakers, author of the Palstain Laboratory,

487
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:52,119
Speaker 2: which I highly suggest you guys check out, and also

488
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,639
Speaker 2: the creator of a new Al Jazeerra documentary titled Germany's

489
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 2: Israel Obsession. Joins us now to weigh in on Trump's

490
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,320
Speaker 2: UN comments with the are to Israel and a number

491
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:03,119
Speaker 2: of other relevant stories.

492
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:03,600
Speaker 5: It's great to.

493
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:05,800
Speaker 8: See Anthony, thanks so much for having me.

494
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:08,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, so Emily and I were just talking

495
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 2: about Trump's big UN speech. Within that speech, he made

496
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 2: some comments about Palestinian state recognition. Let's go ahead and

497
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 2: take a listen to that.

498
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 7: As everyone knows, I have also been deeply engaged in

499
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 7: seeking a cease fire in Gaza.

500
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 6: Have to get that done, have to get it done.

501
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 7: Unfortunately, Hamas has repeatedly rejected reasonable offers to make peace.

502
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:34,400
Speaker 6: We can't forget October seventh, can we now?

503
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 7: As if to encourage continued conflict, some of this body

504
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 7: seeking to unilaterally recognize a Palestinian state.

505
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:46,879
Speaker 6: The rewards would be too.

506
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:51,439
Speaker 7: Great for Hamas terrorists for their atrocities. But instead of

507
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 7: giving in to Harmas's ransom demands, those who want peace

508
00:25:55,560 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 7: should be united with one message, release hostages now.

509
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:03,680
Speaker 6: Just release the hostages now.

510
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 9: But after almost two years of war, what is the result.

511
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 9: Once again, they killed the top leados of Hamas. It works,

512
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 9: this is a great achievement, but at the same time

513
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 9: you have as many Hamas fighters as you had the

514
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:23,879
Speaker 9: first date, so it doesn't work to these matters of Hammas.

515
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 6: Well, I have to say that I'm on the side

516
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 6: of Israel.

517
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:28,879
Speaker 7: I've been on the side of Israel really my whole life,

518
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 7: and we are going to get a solution, and it's

519
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 7: going to be a solution.

520
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 6: Hopefully that's good for everybody. But it's time to stove.

521
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 2: So a lot that was interesting there, Anthony, What did

522
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 2: you make of President Trump's comments with regard to Palestinian

523
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:44,199
Speaker 2: state recognitions.

524
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 5: Of course comes.

525
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 2: After UK, Canada, Australia and other countries have announced they

526
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:51,439
Speaker 2: are going to recognize a Palestinian state, and I think

527
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:53,359
Speaker 2: there's a bit of a divide, at least on the

528
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 2: left of how significant this is, whether this is just

529
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:59,400
Speaker 2: like in basically an ass cover and move that makes

530
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 2: it seem like you doing something without actually doing the

531
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,439
Speaker 2: hard things of like arms, embargo or you know, sanctions

532
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 2: or cutting tridize those sorts of things. So what did

533
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:08,919
Speaker 2: you make of the president's comments and what do you

534
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,440
Speaker 2: make of the reality of Palestinian state recognition.

535
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:14,880
Speaker 8: Look, in some ways, what Trump is saying is reiterating

536
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 8: what the US has felt for a long time. I mean, yes, Biden,

537
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 8: at least on paper, supported a two state solution, whereas

538
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,160
Speaker 8: Trump and his administration do not, which mirrors what Netta

539
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 8: Yahu and his government believes, which is no two state solution,

540
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,919
Speaker 8: no Palestinian state. But at the same time, I'm very

541
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 8: much in the camp of saying that all these Western

542
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,640
Speaker 8: states that have recognized Palestine this week and have done

543
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 8: so in some ways for years in the past, to

544
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 8: say it's symbolic, I think would be too kind. You

545
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 8: can all, on the one hand, talk about recognizing Palestine

546
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 8: as a state and the belief that you should acknowledge

547
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,159
Speaker 8: that Palestinians have a right to self determination, while at

548
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,919
Speaker 8: the same time still funding and backing and arming the

549
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 8: oppressor Israel, which the UK does, and France does, and

550
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:01,960
Speaker 8: Australia does, and Canada does. They are still sending weapons

551
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 8: and weapons parts to Israel two years into this genocide.

552
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 8: And one of the conditions that President Macron of France

553
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,399
Speaker 8: said in the last twenty four hours around Palestine wars,

554
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,360
Speaker 8: I think two things, mainly, one, Humas can't be part

555
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:19,200
Speaker 8: of any future government and two it must be demilitarized.

556
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 8: And I do not know any state in recent history.

557
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 8: The two most recent states that have existed and been

558
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:30,160
Speaker 8: born was South Sudan in twenty eleven and East Timor

559
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 8: in about twenty years ago, twenty three years ago. Now,

560
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 8: the idea that you would say to those states you

561
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 8: can be demilitarized, you must be demilitarized, is a non starter.

562
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 8: I mean, it's an absurd situation because if you demilitarize,

563
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 8: what that means is in this case, Israel would control

564
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 8: your land, sea, in air borders. The occupation therefore continues

565
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 8: in a different form. And secondly, this is no love

566
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 8: for Hummas, but the idea that you are telling Palestinians

567
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 8: that essentially you cannot vote for this party. You have

568
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 8: to vote for who the corrupt Palestine authority. Who a

569
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 8: Palestinians supposed to vote for? Is it up to them

570
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 8: or is it up to outsiders? So most Palestinians I know,

571
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 8: in Gars of the West Bank and in the diaspora saying, yes,

572
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 8: we welcome that the West sees us as humans, I guess.

573
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 8: But after, as I think, many people have said, what

574
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 8: are you recognizing? Are you recognizing a Mahmuda bas the

575
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 8: late eighties corrupt dictator of the Palestine authority as the

576
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 8: leader of his future Palestine, who, by the way he's

577
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 8: celebrated in the last twenty four hours, is happening stuck

578
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 8: in Romolah because the US won't give him a visa

579
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 8: almost comically really, But ultimately it comes to the same

580
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 8: point that what is there a Palestine to recognize? Gaza

581
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 8: no longer exists, it has gone, and the West Bank,

582
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 8: I fear, is going in the same way. So unless, unless,

583
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 8: and until Western states, including the US, but the US

584
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 8: arguably is too far gone on this question, U and

585
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 8: others Europe, Australia and my country want to actually see

586
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 8: a resolution of this conflict. You cannot do so by

587
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 8: simply issuing a speech at the UN. We are so

588
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 8: far beyond that. And it's finally on this point, I

589
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 8: think it's worth saying that Western States routinely bring up

590
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 8: a two state solution when there is a so called

591
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 8: problem in the Israel Palestine conflict, when there is a

592
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 8: perceived need to announce something different, to sort of break

593
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 8: the algorithm, so to speak. And yes, obviously what's happened

594
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 8: in Gaza in the last two years is an unprecedented scale,

595
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 8: far greater than anything in Palestine's history. But I don't

596
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 8: think Kissed Arma or Mark Khni or Australian Prime Minister

597
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 8: around in Albanesi actually thinks that by announcing recognition it's

598
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 8: going to change anything on the ground because they're not

599
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 8: willing to take any steps to make it happen. It's

600
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 8: lip service at best, and that's being polite.

601
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 3: So obviously Israel understands the scale are high going into

602
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:05,800
Speaker 3: the UN this week, with Nacron and others pushing as

603
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 3: they are, So I want to get your take on

604
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 3: this story in the New York Times. This is a

605
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 3: six A lot of theories here as to what's going on,

606
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 3: but the headline is cash of devices capable of crashing

607
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 3: cell network is found near un Just from the lead

608
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 3: I'm going to read quote, the Secret Service found and

609
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 3: seized an illicit network of sophisticated equipment in the New

610
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 3: York region that was capable of shutting down the cellular

611
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 3: network as foreign leaders prepared to gather nearby for the

612
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 3: annual UN General Assembly, the agency announced on Tuesday. Officials

613
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 3: said the anonymous communications network, which included more than one

614
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 3: hundred thousand simcards and three hundred servers, could interfere with

615
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 3: emergency response services and could be used to conduct encryptic communication.

616
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 3: When official said the network was capable of sending thirty

617
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 3: million text messages per minute anonymously, the official said the

618
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 3: agency had never been seen before. I had never before

619
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 3: seen such an extensive operation. There's no specific info that

620
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 3: the network posts a threat to the conference itself.

621
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 4: They go on to.

622
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 3: Say, so this obviously has sparked many many theories, and

623
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 3: particularly people are appointing to Israel being behind this operation.

624
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 4: What do you make of the story?

625
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 3: I mean, that's sort of one of the things people

626
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 3: should know about what you've done with the Palistine Laboratory

627
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 3: is that this is you've studied, and you've studied how

628
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:28,959
Speaker 3: Israel has studied the attack capabilities and places like this

629
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 3: or in ways like this.

630
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 4: So what did you make of the story?

631
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 8: I think there's two ways to see this. One the

632
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 8: only likely states who would be doing this in my

633
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 8: view and experience, is Israel or maybe China. I don't

634
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 8: think it's necessarily Israel, and it may well be. And

635
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 8: there's a history, including in the last ten years, have

636
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 8: a lot of evidence of Israel bugging for example, Boris

637
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 8: Johnson's residents. He's talked about this in these autobiography the

638
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 8: former British Prime Minister. During the first Trump administration, there

639
00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 8: was likely evidence, well not likely, there was evidence that

640
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 8: Israel was potentially bugging the Trump White House when Netanyahu

641
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 8: had visited the White House. And one thing that people

642
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 8: often don't understand about the US Israel relationship is that actually, yes,

643
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 8: they're seen as best of friends, but they actually also

644
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 8: don't trust each other. And what I mean by that

645
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:21,360
Speaker 8: is that both countries have literally hundreds and hundreds of

646
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 8: intelligence officers every day spying on the other, listening to communication.

647
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 8: I mean this has been known for years that Belly

648
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 8: gets talked about in the press, but it's a statement of.

649
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 6: Fact, so yes.

650
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:36,200
Speaker 8: And in fact, one of the interesting revelations of Edward

651
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 8: Snowden's documents when he released those in twenty thirteen was

652
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 8: that he showed that we often are told in the

653
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 8: West that our greatest enemies are Russia and China. And yes,

654
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 8: they spil in America, to be sure, but one of

655
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:51,080
Speaker 8: the greatest threats that is perceived by the American intelligence

656
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 8: agencies was Israel, because they were so obsessed with spying

657
00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 8: on every detail. And of course the Americans know this

658
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 8: and israelis know this. So look this latest event, Emily.

659
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 8: I don't know who it is, of course, beyond what

660
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 8: the story in the New York Times said, and obviously

661
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 8: what information the authorities wanted to release, but the likely

662
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:13,240
Speaker 8: culprits to me Israel or China. China has a reason

663
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 8: to do so as well. Of course, they have a

664
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 8: long history of spying and bugging in the US, but

665
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:21,399
Speaker 8: so does Israel. And I would say, as I said,

666
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:25,279
Speaker 8: that the US Israel relationship is BFFs on paper, but

667
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:27,760
Speaker 8: actually profoundly dysfunctional behind the scenes.

668
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 4: And there's a lot of paranoia right now.

669
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:33,120
Speaker 3: I think is really saying about how much support they

670
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:34,720
Speaker 3: have in the Trump administration, which.

671
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,880
Speaker 8: Actionally, yeah, there's a lot of paranoid And on the

672
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,319
Speaker 8: one hand, you could say it's bizarre that there is

673
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 8: that paranoid because they clearly are getting everything they wanted,

674
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 8: as was happening under Biden. But they Israel and Israeli,

675
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 8: I guess spokespeople in the US, they see what is

676
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,840
Speaker 8: happening within the Republican Party. Put aside, the Democrats to

677
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:56,480
Speaker 8: Democrats obviously are increasingly least in the base, very much

678
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,280
Speaker 8: against Israel, where the leadership is still very much seemingly

679
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 8: insupportive Israel in general. It's not quite as black and

680
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 8: white as that, as you guys know well. But on

681
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 8: the Republican side, yes, Trump and Marco Rubio and everything

682
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 8: are one hundred and ten percent behind Israel, so we're told.

683
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:12,759
Speaker 8: But clearly in the Republican right and the Maga rite

684
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,839
Speaker 8: there is a growing split. It's hard to see how

685
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 8: that plays out politically yet at this point, but it

686
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 8: is clearly happening, and that does worry rightly the Israelis.

687
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 8: So yes, they would have definite cause to do this,

688
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 8: but of course if it was found out to be Israel.

689
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:32,359
Speaker 8: What would the so called punishment be is Netiania who

690
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 8: likely to lose his access to the on suite bathroom

691
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:39,799
Speaker 8: at the White House. No, I mean this is the reality, right,

692
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:43,399
Speaker 8: this is the relationship. It's dysfunctional. And if Netania who

693
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,359
Speaker 8: one day no longer is prime Minister of Israel, which

694
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 8: will happen the likely successors to him in Israel Naftali

695
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:54,840
Speaker 8: Bennett or ye Lapid or Benny Gan someone like that,

696
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 8: and a lot of these issues, believe me, are not

697
00:35:57,320 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 8: much different to Netanyahu.

698
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's something and we've tried to highlight as well,

699
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 2: because there's I think a lot of wish casting from

700
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:09,240
Speaker 2: American politics, especially American liberals, that it's just not Yahoo.

701
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 2: We've just got to get him out of there and

702
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 2: then everything will be fine and different, et cetera. And

703
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:16,319
Speaker 2: there's just very there's just no evidence for that. I

704
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:18,799
Speaker 2: wanted to talk to you too about this, this documentary

705
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:22,279
Speaker 2: that you just made for Al Jazeera. We can put

706
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 2: the thumbnail up on the screen here, and I found

707
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 2: this absolutely fascinating. The topic is fascinating. You are Australian,

708
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:31,279
Speaker 2: but your family's originally from Germany, so you've close, you know,

709
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 2: personal ties to the country, and I'm not sure I

710
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 2: really internalized how much the ethos of never again and

711
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:42,239
Speaker 2: the knowledge that the you know, the German people had

712
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 2: perpetrated the Holocaust, how much that is a cornerstone of

713
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 2: sort of like modern German identity.

714
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 5: And then your documentary.

715
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 2: Talks about the way that this has been bastardized in

716
00:36:55,719 --> 00:37:00,440
Speaker 2: order to effectively criminalize any sort of pro Palestinian support,

717
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 2: which obviously is ironic because now, because there is such

718
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 2: desperation about avoiding charges of anti Semitism in Germany, you

719
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 2: have the German government complicit in another genocide here with

720
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 2: regard to Palestine. So talk a little bit about what

721
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:19,279
Speaker 2: drew you to the topic and the way that this

722
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:22,400
Speaker 2: cultural identity has played out within Germany.

723
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:26,319
Speaker 8: One thing that most people maybe don't realize is that

724
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 8: Germany is the second biggest provider weapons to Israel after

725
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 8: the US. The US is number one, to be sure

726
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:36,439
Speaker 8: Underbiden or Trump, but Germany second, and that accelerated after

727
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 8: October seven. So you're right that there is this sense

728
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 8: within Germany which didn't exist straight after World War Two,

729
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 8: but certainly the last thirty forty years that we as

730
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:50,239
Speaker 8: a German people need to commemorate and atone essentially for

731
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:52,799
Speaker 8: the crimes of our ancestors. And I on paper haven't

732
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 8: no problem with that. I mean, Germany committed one of

733
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:57,920
Speaker 8: the ultimate crimes, the genocide of course of Jews and

734
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:00,960
Speaker 8: millions and millions of others of course. But the way

735
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 8: that manifests itself today, and this was beginning long before

736
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 8: October seven, but it's accelerated since, is this belief amongst

737
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 8: the vast bulk of the German political elite and media elite,

738
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,759
Speaker 8: and a size le proportioned of the German public, both

739
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 8: in the East former East Germany and the West, that

740
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 8: they have a historical responsibility to support Israel no matter what. Now,

741
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:27,799
Speaker 8: this was a view, as I said, long before October seven,

742
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:30,799
Speaker 8: but it's got stronger sinins. So what that means practically,

743
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 8: I'm believing that, for example, pro Palestine protests have to

744
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:37,399
Speaker 8: be crushed hugely violently. People who say from the river

745
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:41,320
Speaker 8: to the sea Palestine should be free are literally charged

746
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 8: and brought before court. If an individual tries to make

747
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 8: a comparison between the Nazi Holocaust and what Israel's doing

748
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 8: in Gaza, you are apparently disparaging their so called original Holocaust,

749
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:56,359
Speaker 8: and therefore you might be charged. There have been huge

750
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:59,319
Speaker 8: amounts of Palestinians who have been deported in Arabs for

751
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:02,400
Speaker 8: that matter, who have not been violent, who are not terrorists,

752
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,840
Speaker 8: who are simply expressing a critical view of Israel. And

753
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:10,280
Speaker 8: the impact of that practically on arguably the most powerful

754
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 8: country in Europe, the most powerful economy has been for years,

755
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 8: although it's in a bit of a bad shape these

756
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 8: days economically, is to actually empower the far right, the AfD,

757
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:23,240
Speaker 8: which is now the largest opposition party in the country.

758
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:27,239
Speaker 8: And you have someone in the film Iras Heifetz, who's

759
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:33,239
Speaker 8: a Jewish Israeli born German citizen, who basically says, I'm

760
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 8: paraphrasing what she says that Israel has become the washing

761
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:40,320
Speaker 8: machine for the far right, and what that means is

762
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 8: which is happening in the US, across Europe as well.

763
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 8: It's not unique to Germany, but it's happening, is that

764
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 8: when someone in the far right says, I love Israel

765
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:50,719
Speaker 8: or I love Jews, you can't accuse me of anti Semitism.

766
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 8: I love the world's only Jewish state. And the AfD

767
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 8: in Germany is doing that very successfully and whitewashing their

768
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:02,080
Speaker 8: own record, which historically has been often tied to neo Nazism.

769
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:05,719
Speaker 8: And today they are supported, according to the polls, by

770
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:08,759
Speaker 8: around twenty five percent of the German population. Now they're

771
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 8: not in government, yes, but potentially years to come they

772
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:13,880
Speaker 8: will be. And I guess part of the reason to

773
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:16,760
Speaker 8: make this film I made it with the British filmmaker

774
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 8: Dan Davies. I also made The Palestine Laboratory with Eldersira

775
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:23,920
Speaker 8: earlier this year. Was in some ways most people I

776
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:27,480
Speaker 8: spoke to about this question had no idea of what

777
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:29,880
Speaker 8: was happening in Germany. We're very well aware of the

778
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 8: massive repression ticket since Trump has returned to the White House,

779
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 8: of crushing pro Palestine speech, trying to poor people Machmud Khalil,

780
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 8: amongst many many others. But what's happening in Germany the

781
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:47,320
Speaker 8: heart of Europe is actually remarkably similar. It's remarkably similar, different,

782
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 8: but similar. And I am born in Australia, but I'm

783
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:54,960
Speaker 8: a German citizen, so I wouldn't say I feel particularly

784
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:57,920
Speaker 8: German per se, but I at the same time feel

785
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 8: the reason I got a passport fifteen or so year

786
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 8: years ago was for those who are unaware. After the

787
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:06,960
Speaker 8: war World War II, Germany allowed Jews whose citizenship was

788
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:10,440
Speaker 8: removed because the Nazis didn't recognize Jewish citizens could have

789
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:14,680
Speaker 8: reinstated essentially, and many many Jews for about half a

790
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:18,880
Speaker 8: century mostly refused to do that, including my parents basically saying,

791
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:20,839
Speaker 8: why would I want to be a German citizen after

792
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:22,800
Speaker 8: what Germany did to us, which I understood.

793
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:24,759
Speaker 6: In the last twenty twenty.

794
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 8: Five years, many Jews around the world have changed their

795
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:28,880
Speaker 8: opinion and have now because they want to have an

796
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:32,880
Speaker 8: EU passport for whatever reason may be. But the idea

797
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:36,400
Speaker 8: somehow that Germany says they are doing this in the

798
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:40,279
Speaker 8: name of me as a Jew to support Israel and

799
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:45,320
Speaker 8: critically apparently makes Germany a good global citizen despite the fact,

800
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:49,239
Speaker 8: as you said, that they are now backing arming a

801
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:54,080
Speaker 8: genocide an Israeli state that is proudly I would argue genocidal.

802
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 8: So the film I supposed tries to uncover that investigate that,

803
00:41:58,120 --> 00:41:59,799
Speaker 8: and it came out about two weeks ago, just had

804
00:41:59,880 --> 00:42:04,120
Speaker 8: amazing global response, I think because most people just don't

805
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:07,239
Speaker 8: know what is happening in a country which is in

806
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 8: the center of Europe with huge amounts of influence, and

807
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:13,920
Speaker 8: what's happening in Germany is happening elsewhere US growing parts

808
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:16,960
Speaker 8: of Europe, France, England. And then we finish on this

809
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:19,320
Speaker 8: point we talk about at the end of the film

810
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:22,279
Speaker 8: that what's happening in Germany's mirrored elsewhere. Just this year,

811
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:26,479
Speaker 8: the UK has prescribed as a terrorist organization a group

812
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 8: called Palestine Action, which is a non violence group trying

813
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:34,360
Speaker 8: to stop Israel's genocide, but also the complicity of Israeli

814
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:39,080
Speaker 8: arms companies in the Israeli occupation. The idea that that

815
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 8: is a terrorist organization is absurd, and yet Kirstariner's government

816
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:48,400
Speaker 8: has prescribed that as a terrorist organization, meaning that if

817
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 8: you are in London, for example, or Birmingham, wherever you

818
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 8: may be, and you hold a sign and you say

819
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:56,880
Speaker 8: I support Palestine Action, you will be arrested and charged.

820
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:02,800
Speaker 8: And so this obsessive desire in so many Western countries

821
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 8: to protect Israel at the expense of their own countries

822
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 8: democracy should really disturb us all a lot and.

823
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:12,960
Speaker 4: A point that you're making heroes, I can also massively.

824
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:17,040
Speaker 8: Backfire, well massively backfire to those I think who are saying,

825
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 8: I guess it depends backfire for whom right. I mean.

826
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:22,880
Speaker 8: In Germany, for example, we have some people talking about

827
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:25,920
Speaker 8: this idea that you as a journalist one doesn't want

828
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:28,560
Speaker 8: to predict the future because we're often wrong. But the

829
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:31,360
Speaker 8: direction that Germany appears to be heading on at the

830
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 8: moment is moving towards a far more anti Islam, anti immigration,

831
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:42,920
Speaker 8: anti multiculturalism, blindly pro Israel direction. And whether that is

832
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:46,520
Speaker 8: the AfD being in power in the coming years or

833
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:50,319
Speaker 8: someone like the AfD, I mean, it's worth saying, as

834
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:52,880
Speaker 8: some viewers of Breaking Points of Course will know, is

835
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 8: that Elon Musk is a massive fan of the AfD.

836
00:43:56,840 --> 00:43:59,719
Speaker 8: During the German election earlier this year, he was very

837
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:02,120
Speaker 8: keen support the AfD. I think he said, and I'm

838
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 8: paraphrasing here something like only AfD can save Germany. Now

839
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:09,480
Speaker 8: his focus wasn't nothing so much on Israel. Who is more,

840
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:12,840
Speaker 8: the fact that the AfD is talking about is basically

841
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:17,360
Speaker 8: urging or encouraging the idea or would force faculty immigrants

842
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 8: who have arrived to be sent back to their supposed

843
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 8: home countries. And that's of course what's happening increasing the

844
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:28,400
Speaker 8: US and certain other Western States. So I would argue

845
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:33,680
Speaker 8: it's massively backfiring on Germany because German identity, you would think,

846
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 8: historically correctly, is based on both a combination of guilt

847
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:43,400
Speaker 8: acknowledgment learning from that history. And I still say to

848
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 8: this day that Germany, unlike virtually any other European nation,

849
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 8: who are often very complicit with Nazis, collaborated with them,

850
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 8: has done a lot of atoning and I welcome that.

851
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:58,839
Speaker 8: But the question is in what service for whom? And

852
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:03,799
Speaker 8: when Germany is supporting in Israeli state uncritically when they

853
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:07,319
Speaker 8: are committing genocide, I say, you are learning little to

854
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:11,880
Speaker 8: nothing from history, and that's a pretty worrying conclusion.

855
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:13,480
Speaker 4: Answer.

856
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:16,719
Speaker 2: My last question for you is we actually see Israel

857
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:21,480
Speaker 2: dividing the right in the US, especially among young people.

858
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:23,880
Speaker 2: You mentioned some of this before. I know you're familiar

859
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:26,240
Speaker 2: with the Poles in those dynamics as well. Yes, dividing

860
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:28,680
Speaker 2: the far right. You know, if you look at Stephen

861
00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:31,040
Speaker 2: Miller very pro Israel, if you look at a Nick

862
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:35,439
Speaker 2: Fuenttes very anti Israel. Are those dynamics playing out in

863
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 2: Germany as well?

864
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:42,359
Speaker 8: With AfD largely not yet? And in short, there is

865
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:44,680
Speaker 8: I mean the irony of course with all this is

866
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 8: that those on the far ride don't like Jews. They've

867
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:51,759
Speaker 8: never liked Jews, they still don't like Jews. So yes,

868
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:54,200
Speaker 8: the AfD. I'm not saying everyone who supports the AfD

869
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:57,040
Speaker 8: is racist, that would not be true. But there is

870
00:45:57,120 --> 00:46:01,000
Speaker 8: a deep antipathy within I think the AfD and much

871
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:04,560
Speaker 8: of the German far right and frankly right wing in

872
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:08,040
Speaker 8: idealizing Israel. And this is something I've talked about for

873
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:09,919
Speaker 8: a long time that for many people on the right

874
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:11,840
Speaker 8: and the far right. I understand there's a split in

875
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 8: parts of the US, and in some ways I welcome that,

876
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:17,319
Speaker 8: but for many on the right and the far right,

877
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:21,359
Speaker 8: Israel is their model. It's their ethno nationalist wet dream.

878
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:24,520
Speaker 8: That is the nation they want to be like. Not Jewish,

879
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:28,479
Speaker 8: of course, but Christian, a Christian nationalist, fundamental est state.

880
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:30,640
Speaker 8: And only has to look at, for example, a lot

881
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 8: of the language around the Charlie Kirk funeral a few

882
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:39,040
Speaker 8: days ago that was a hard line Christian nationalist agenda,

883
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:42,799
Speaker 8: petrifying to someone like me who's a secular atheist Jew,

884
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 8: to put it mildly, and I see in Germany a

885
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:52,600
Speaker 8: real almost a combination of growing numbers of young Germans

886
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:55,040
Speaker 8: resent the fact that they're told they should be feeling

887
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:58,319
Speaker 8: guilty for their past, for what their ancestors did in

888
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:02,440
Speaker 8: World War Two, manifests itself now in a hard line

889
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:07,520
Speaker 8: far right, anti immigration, anti Islam, pro Israel agenda. Despite

890
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 8: the fact that me and those people don't like Jews

891
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:11,440
Speaker 8: both can exist.

892
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:12,560
Speaker 6: You can be an.

893
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:16,040
Speaker 8: Anti Semite and love Israel. And what's so disturbing about

894
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:20,640
Speaker 8: that is Israel itself is welcoming that support. You've had

895
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:24,400
Speaker 8: In the last year alone, the Israeli government since the genocide,

896
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 8: began organizing far right conferences in Jerusalem for some of

897
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 8: these European far right leaders. You've had Israeli government ministers

898
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:36,800
Speaker 8: going to these far right conferences in Europe.

899
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:38,239
Speaker 6: Now, if you're a.

900
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:41,960
Speaker 8: Sane Jew, sane person, you don't welcome the love of

901
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:45,360
Speaker 8: the far right because historically, you know, they don't like

902
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:50,880
Speaker 8: us for a range of reasons. So the idea that Israel,

903
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:55,960
Speaker 8: as a increasingly theocratic far right nation welcomes and embraces

904
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:59,560
Speaker 8: a far right agenda both within its own borders and elsewhere,

905
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:01,960
Speaker 8: says all you need to know. I think about where

906
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 8: Israel as a country is going, which is in my view,

907
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:09,640
Speaker 8: increasingly likely to be theocretic, proudly theocretic.

908
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 5: Anthony.

909
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:14,400
Speaker 2: Tell people where they can watch this, this documentary.

910
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:16,880
Speaker 8: So Jermy's Israel Obsession is on YouTube if you just

911
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:21,799
Speaker 8: put that in Google. It is on on the Olviazira website.

912
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:25,279
Speaker 8: If you google that, you'll find lots of entries. It's available.

913
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:29,200
Speaker 8: Go watch it. It's it'll hopefully shock you in a

914
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:32,360
Speaker 8: good way, and it'll shock you in a way that

915
00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:34,040
Speaker 8: makes you open your eyes.

916
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:36,319
Speaker 2: Do you think, Yeah, it illuminates things in a way

917
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:39,200
Speaker 2: that's important. I certainly got a lot on watching it

918
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:41,680
Speaker 2: and highly recommend Atie. Thank you so much for your

919
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:43,480
Speaker 2: work and it's great to see as always.

920
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:45,920
Speaker 8: Thank you so much, guys, both of you. I appreciate it.

921
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:46,439
Speaker 8: Thank you.

922
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:49,560
Speaker 3: So.

923
00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:53,040
Speaker 2: Jimmy Kimmel was back last night after being pulled from

924
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:56,520
Speaker 2: the air by Disney under pressure from the Trump administration.

925
00:48:57,040 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 2: At least he was back on most ABC broadcast around

926
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:04,360
Speaker 2: the country. Next Doer and Sinclair did decide to continue

927
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 2: to preempt his program, and we'll get to that in

928
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:08,279
Speaker 2: a minute. Let's take a listen to a little bit

929
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:11,239
Speaker 2: of what he had to say about his suspension.

930
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:15,160
Speaker 10: We supported our show, cared enough to do something about it,

931
00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:17,359
Speaker 10: to make your voices heard so that mine could be heard.

932
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:18,920
Speaker 10: I will never forget it.

933
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:23,279
Speaker 2: And maybe maybe most.

934
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:25,600
Speaker 10: Of all, I want to thank that people who don't

935
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 10: support my show and what I believe, but support my

936
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:32,319
Speaker 10: right to share those beliefs. Anyway, I've been hearing a

937
00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:34,800
Speaker 10: lot about what I need to say and do tonight,

938
00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:37,279
Speaker 10: and the truth is, I don't think what I have

939
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:38,920
Speaker 10: to say is going to make much of a difference.

940
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:40,399
Speaker 10: If you like me, you like me. If you don't,

941
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:43,240
Speaker 10: you don't. I have no illusions about changing anyone's mind.

942
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:45,040
Speaker 10: But I do want to make something clear because it's

943
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:48,239
Speaker 10: important to me as a human, and that is you

944
00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:51,520
Speaker 10: understand that it was never my intention to make light of.

945
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:53,399
Speaker 6: The murder of a young man.

946
00:49:54,560 --> 00:50:01,080
Speaker 4: I don't. I don't think there's only he's running about it.

947
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:04,279
Speaker 10: I posted a message on Instagram of the daves killed,

948
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:07,279
Speaker 10: sending love to his family and asking for compassion, and

949
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:07,839
Speaker 10: I meant it.

950
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:08,719
Speaker 4: I still do.

951
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:12,279
Speaker 10: Nor was it my intention to blame any specific group

952
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:15,560
Speaker 10: for the actions of what it was obviously a deeply

953
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:19,359
Speaker 10: disturbed individual that was really the opposite of the point

954
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:21,239
Speaker 10: I was trying to make but I understand that to

955
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:24,879
Speaker 10: some that felt either ill timed or unclear, or maybe both.

956
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:27,840
Speaker 10: And for those who think I did point a finger,

957
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:30,600
Speaker 10: I get why you're upset. If the situation was reversed,

958
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:33,000
Speaker 10: there was a good chance I'd have felt the same way.

959
00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:33,680
Speaker 4: This show.

960
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:37,960
Speaker 10: This show is not important. What is important is that

961
00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:40,520
Speaker 10: we get to live in a country that allows us

962
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:41,799
Speaker 10: to have a show like this.

963
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:45,560
Speaker 2: So you hear his voice quavering with emotion there where

964
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:48,759
Speaker 2: he's talking about you know, he never intended to make

965
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:51,359
Speaker 2: light of the killing of Charlie Kirk.

966
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:52,480
Speaker 5: I think a lot.

967
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:54,279
Speaker 2: I don't want to speak for the you know, the

968
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 2: right I'll let you say what you made of it, Emily.

969
00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:00,920
Speaker 2: I think there were skepticism about the sincerity of this

970
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:02,640
Speaker 2: sort of pseudo apology, but.

971
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:03,759
Speaker 5: You know it would.

972
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:07,440
Speaker 2: I'm sure this was all a very upsetting and traumatic

973
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:10,000
Speaker 2: event for Jimmy Kimmel, and I think we've seen the

974
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:12,960
Speaker 2: way that even people who don't like Charlie Kirk, really

975
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:15,040
Speaker 2: disagree with Charlie Kirk, but who were in the public

976
00:51:15,040 --> 00:51:20,200
Speaker 2: eye were somewhat traumatized by his you know, violent murder,

977
00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:24,480
Speaker 2: you know, effectively live streamed murder, because Kimmel talks about

978
00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:27,439
Speaker 2: how he faces threats as well, so you can't help

979
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:31,239
Speaker 2: but think about your own mortality and you know the

980
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:34,320
Speaker 2: reality of the dangerous situation that you yourself may be

981
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:35,080
Speaker 2: in as well.

982
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:41,960
Speaker 3: It was interesting that Kimmel was emotional and not completely

983
00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:46,880
Speaker 3: doing a sort of smug victory lap, which he's want

984
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:50,880
Speaker 3: to do. I think he probably handled it as best

985
00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:56,080
Speaker 3: he could, walking the line between keeping the sort of

986
00:51:56,480 --> 00:52:01,160
Speaker 3: left happy, keeping the middle America happy, and trying to

987
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:03,960
Speaker 3: throw a bone to the right without looking like from

988
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:08,680
Speaker 3: his perspective, he folded entirely to the administration, because obviously

989
00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:11,480
Speaker 3: that's not in any way what he wants to do.

990
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:14,439
Speaker 3: I think Kimball is such a frustrating case. I mean,

991
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:18,080
Speaker 3: he did not apologize for this is where, for example,

992
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:21,400
Speaker 3: turning Point USA, Andrew Colbett came out and said not

993
00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:25,759
Speaker 3: good enough. Didn't apologize for fundamentally saying something that was incorrect.

994
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:29,960
Speaker 3: And there are polls that show a lot of people think,

995
00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:34,799
Speaker 3: for example, Tyler Robinson was a griper, was a far

996
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:38,879
Speaker 3: right type of guy, and so fully understand why many

997
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:42,040
Speaker 3: of my friends on the writer are furious about somebody

998
00:52:42,040 --> 00:52:48,560
Speaker 3: who has a public public good like the airwaves making

999
00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:53,600
Speaker 3: equip that implies this was a Trump supporter who killed

1000
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:57,400
Speaker 3: Charlie Kirk. But Kimba is sort of he's frustrating. He's

1001
00:52:57,440 --> 00:53:00,359
Speaker 3: become like this performative and sort of self sad by

1002
00:53:00,560 --> 00:53:02,680
Speaker 3: type of anti Trump comedian in a way that's like

1003
00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:07,800
Speaker 3: hurt his comedy and like softened his edges and gets cringey.

1004
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:08,400
Speaker 4: Sometimes.

1005
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:12,640
Speaker 3: He also was like happy about Roseanne firing whatever else.

1006
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:17,160
Speaker 3: But that's where we should bring in Next Star Sinclair

1007
00:53:17,239 --> 00:53:19,040
Speaker 3: and then Joe Rogan so we can put B two

1008
00:53:19,080 --> 00:53:24,239
Speaker 3: on the screen. Next Star and Sinclair did not air this,

1009
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:27,960
Speaker 3: as Crystal mentioned earlier, So that's a good chunk of

1010
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:33,760
Speaker 3: affiliates around the country who have more probably my assumption

1011
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:38,360
Speaker 3: would be in many cases more pro Kirk audience audiences

1012
00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:42,960
Speaker 3: and some of these local networks or these communities who

1013
00:53:43,040 --> 00:53:46,520
Speaker 3: have some of their own pressures to deal with, and

1014
00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:50,399
Speaker 3: obviously Next Star it is what would be. We would

1015
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:53,040
Speaker 3: be remiss if we didn't mention that they have a

1016
00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:56,719
Speaker 3: merger they're trying to get through with Tegna that's going

1017
00:53:56,760 --> 00:54:00,400
Speaker 3: to come in front of Brendan Cars FCC the not

1018
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:06,759
Speaker 3: too distant future. So let's roll how Joe Rogan reacted

1019
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:11,160
Speaker 3: to the pressures that befell ABC from the Trump administration.

1020
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:11,759
Speaker 4: B three.

1021
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:14,360
Speaker 11: First of all, I definitely don't think that the government

1022
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:18,440
Speaker 11: should be involved ever in dictating what a comedian can

1023
00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:21,240
Speaker 11: or cannot say in a monologue. That's fucking crazy.

1024
00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:21,640
Speaker 4: Crazy.

1025
00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:27,080
Speaker 11: Now, if the problem is the companies, if they're being

1026
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:30,319
Speaker 11: pressured by the government, So if that's real, and if

1027
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:32,680
Speaker 11: people on the right are like, yeah, go get them,

1028
00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:38,160
Speaker 11: Oh my god, you're crazy. You're crazy for supporting this

1029
00:54:38,640 --> 00:54:40,960
Speaker 11: because this will be used on you. You don't think

1030
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:44,400
Speaker 11: that the fucking globalist lizard people who run the world

1031
00:54:44,400 --> 00:54:46,440
Speaker 11: are sitting here going great, what do we got three years?

1032
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:48,920
Speaker 6: We'll wake this out, We'll wake this out. Yeah.

1033
00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:52,160
Speaker 11: Let them say the government should be involved in censoring

1034
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:53,040
Speaker 11: people's speech.

1035
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:54,879
Speaker 6: Yeah yeah, let them support that.

1036
00:54:55,160 --> 00:54:59,799
Speaker 11: Let these fucking dumbasses because Jimmy Kimmel's a leftist. Let

1037
00:54:59,840 --> 00:55:02,799
Speaker 11: these dumb asses think it's a good idea and we

1038
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:03,799
Speaker 11: should celebrate.

1039
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:05,880
Speaker 3: So, Chris, So, the reason I wanted to toss to

1040
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:10,480
Speaker 3: that just now is I obviously completely agree that the

1041
00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:12,799
Speaker 3: government shouldn't be in a position at all to say

1042
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:14,160
Speaker 3: what's in a comedian's monologue.

1043
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:16,160
Speaker 4: That's obviously the way the FCC is set up.

1044
00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:18,279
Speaker 3: And Brendan Carr told me not too long ago that

1045
00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:21,400
Speaker 3: he thinks it's possible the entire law should just be changed.

1046
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:24,960
Speaker 3: I think it's it's you know, I'm sympathetic to the

1047
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:27,480
Speaker 3: argument that you just abolished the FCC, but that's a

1048
00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:31,520
Speaker 3: more radical proposal. What's interesting about what Rogan just said

1049
00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:35,080
Speaker 3: is I can hear my friends on the right in

1050
00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:39,720
Speaker 3: their head saying, yeah, okay, what is the FCC going

1051
00:55:39,800 --> 00:55:44,279
Speaker 3: to do? Cancel a conservative late night host? There's not

1052
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:46,520
Speaker 3: a single conservative.

1053
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:46,520
Speaker 4: Late night house.

1054
00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:49,839
Speaker 3: What are they going to do to the right that

1055
00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:54,840
Speaker 3: could possibly make these networks more biased in or what

1056
00:55:54,880 --> 00:55:57,080
Speaker 3: are they going to do to the right, given how

1057
00:55:57,160 --> 00:56:02,720
Speaker 3: these networks are already so biased against the left, and they're.

1058
00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:04,279
Speaker 5: Coming for Sidney Sweeney, Emily.

1059
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:07,440
Speaker 3: They're coming for Sidney Sweeney obviously, Like I just have this,

1060
00:56:07,600 --> 00:56:13,080
Speaker 3: like gross, I feel gross anytime the government is threatening journalists,

1061
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:16,880
Speaker 3: right comedians. So I'm not I can't get on that bandwagon,

1062
00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:18,520
Speaker 3: though most of my friends on the right are on

1063
00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:21,160
Speaker 3: that bandwagon. They're like, well what the okay, great, yeah,

1064
00:56:21,239 --> 00:56:22,920
Speaker 3: what do you mean they're going to like we're not

1065
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:26,120
Speaker 3: afraid of the FCC because all of these networks are

1066
00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:29,479
Speaker 3: already downplaying conservative voices. That's a taste of what people

1067
00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:31,279
Speaker 3: would say in response to Rogan there.

1068
00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:34,920
Speaker 2: Well, the thing is like, the FCC is not really

1069
00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:39,960
Speaker 2: the thing here because this is coming down from Trump himself,

1070
00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:44,040
Speaker 2: who threatened Kimmel after Colbert got fired.

1071
00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:45,520
Speaker 5: Who I think we do.

1072
00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:48,319
Speaker 2: We have Trump's truth B six we can put up

1073
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:52,600
Speaker 2: on the screen where he's continuing to threaten Kimmel and

1074
00:56:52,640 --> 00:56:56,400
Speaker 2: say he should still be canceled. And so it's not like,

1075
00:56:56,680 --> 00:56:58,400
Speaker 2: you know, it'd be one thing if this was some

1076
00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:01,880
Speaker 2: narrow FCC like we're going to apply the law differently,

1077
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:03,840
Speaker 2: which of course they are. You know, Brendan Carr is

1078
00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:06,560
Speaker 2: threatening that as well. But what you're talking about with

1079
00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:11,279
Speaker 2: the Trump administration is a whole of government weaponization. And

1080
00:57:11,640 --> 00:57:15,080
Speaker 2: you know, as you mentioned before, Next Star and Sinclair,

1081
00:57:15,120 --> 00:57:20,640
Speaker 2: which also preempted Kimmel shows, they both are lobbying the

1082
00:57:20,680 --> 00:57:23,920
Speaker 2: government for different things. You know, they both are our

1083
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:27,360
Speaker 2: lobbying to get their business needs meant. And in Next

1084
00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:32,280
Speaker 2: Star's case this merger approved, Disney also has business before

1085
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:36,840
Speaker 2: the government. So you know, from a dollars and cents perspective,

1086
00:57:37,040 --> 00:57:39,920
Speaker 2: I think the reason Jimmy Kimmel is back on air

1087
00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:44,920
Speaker 2: is because there was enough of a public and artist

1088
00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:51,000
Speaker 2: backlash that they decided that as a business decision, it

1089
00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:53,840
Speaker 2: was more risky to keep him off than to bring

1090
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:58,160
Speaker 2: him back on come what may from the Trump administration. So,

1091
00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:01,560
Speaker 2: you know, I don't think this was like a principal decision.

1092
00:58:02,120 --> 00:58:04,080
Speaker 2: I don't think that, you know, I don't think these

1093
00:58:04,080 --> 00:58:07,360
Speaker 2: capitalist organizations make principal decisions. They make decisions based on

1094
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:09,520
Speaker 2: what they perceive, at least their bottom line to be,

1095
00:58:09,880 --> 00:58:11,760
Speaker 2: and there was enough of an outcry and enough people

1096
00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:14,840
Speaker 2: who canceled their Disney Plus subscriptions that they thought, we

1097
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:16,520
Speaker 2: got a bit of a problem here, we better bring

1098
00:58:16,640 --> 00:58:21,000
Speaker 2: him back. So, you know, to your point about oh, well,

1099
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:23,720
Speaker 2: what could the liberals do to us if they got

1100
00:58:23,720 --> 00:58:29,360
Speaker 2: back in power, I think it is where I disagree

1101
00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:31,680
Speaker 2: with Rogan's point is, I don't know if we're going

1102
00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:34,760
Speaker 2: to get any sort of Democrat who would be accrossive

1103
00:58:34,840 --> 00:58:38,160
Speaker 2: enough to do this sort of retaliation. I also don't

1104
00:58:38,160 --> 00:58:40,680
Speaker 2: think that the Supreme Court would go along with the

1105
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:43,880
Speaker 2: same things from a democratic president that they go along

1106
00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:46,240
Speaker 2: with from a Republican president.

1107
00:58:46,320 --> 00:58:48,160
Speaker 5: I mean did have someone.

1108
00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:50,760
Speaker 4: They rejected Merthy b v.

1109
00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:54,200
Speaker 3: Missouri, which was the challenge on Biden ear a pressure

1110
00:58:54,200 --> 00:58:55,320
Speaker 3: on social media companies.

1111
00:58:55,320 --> 00:58:58,200
Speaker 2: And I'm speaking more broadly though of I mean, first

1112
00:58:58,200 --> 00:59:00,120
Speaker 2: of all, that was a different situation because you and

1113
00:59:00,240 --> 00:59:03,120
Speaker 2: have such a direct and overt threat. It was implicit.

1114
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:06,440
Speaker 2: But I'm speaking of, you know, the shadow docket. Basically,

1115
00:59:06,440 --> 00:59:09,400
Speaker 2: the Trump administration this time around has gotten everything they

1116
00:59:09,400 --> 00:59:12,040
Speaker 2: want from this court. And I don't think that it's

1117
00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:14,720
Speaker 2: based on principle. I think it's based on like number one,

1118
00:59:14,800 --> 00:59:18,440
Speaker 2: they want to void a direct conflict with you know,

1119
00:59:18,520 --> 00:59:21,600
Speaker 2: with Trump, who has made it pretty plain that he's

1120
00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:24,800
Speaker 2: open to just ignoring Supreme Court decisions. They don't want

1121
00:59:24,800 --> 00:59:26,920
Speaker 2: to destroy the court. And number two, you know, to

1122
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:29,440
Speaker 2: a certain extent, they're just like on board with the agenda.

1123
00:59:29,560 --> 00:59:30,880
Speaker 5: So I don't know that.

1124
00:59:30,840 --> 00:59:33,760
Speaker 2: A democratic president would likely weaponize the whole of federal

1125
00:59:33,800 --> 00:59:36,840
Speaker 2: government the way that Trump has been willing to. But yeah,

1126
00:59:36,840 --> 00:59:38,600
Speaker 2: I guess it's good for the right to be afraid

1127
00:59:38,760 --> 00:59:41,560
Speaker 2: that that would be one of the things that would happen. Well,

1128
00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:44,360
Speaker 2: but if he did, I mean, listen, Fox News is

1129
00:59:44,360 --> 00:59:47,080
Speaker 2: the thing that exists. It is the largest cable news network.

1130
00:59:47,120 --> 00:59:50,840
Speaker 2: It is extraordinarily powerful in terms of it's you know,

1131
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:56,000
Speaker 2: its reach and its influence on the overall national conversation.

1132
00:59:56,120 --> 00:59:58,520
Speaker 2: They can really set the agenda in a lot of ways,

1133
00:59:58,680 --> 01:00:00,760
Speaker 2: and there's a lot of connectivity betwe Fox News and

1134
01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:04,080
Speaker 2: the rest of the conservative media apparatus. Since this isn't

1135
01:00:04,160 --> 01:00:08,439
Speaker 2: really about the FCC because it's cable versus broadcast, of course,

1136
01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:12,640
Speaker 2: there's ways that future democratic administration could go after Fox

1137
01:00:12,720 --> 01:00:15,520
Speaker 2: News and try to make them pay for supporting a

1138
01:00:15,560 --> 01:00:19,160
Speaker 2: Republican agenda. You know, I don't think that that's the

1139
01:00:19,200 --> 01:00:22,760
Speaker 2: direction that the country should go in. And the fact

1140
01:00:22,760 --> 01:00:25,800
Speaker 2: that Trump immediately just like comes out and threatens Kimmel

1141
01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:29,840
Speaker 2: again is basically an admission that this was not about

1142
01:00:29,880 --> 01:00:33,240
Speaker 2: Disney making a business decision. This was them caving to

1143
01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:38,479
Speaker 2: the authoritarian demands of the Trump administration. And the only

1144
01:00:38,520 --> 01:00:40,960
Speaker 2: reason he's back is because of the level of pushback

1145
01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:41,680
Speaker 2: that they received.

1146
01:00:41,800 --> 01:00:45,120
Speaker 3: Well, I was also going to say the potential CBS

1147
01:00:45,160 --> 01:00:50,040
Speaker 3: Free Press merger, that's clearly like a downstream consequence of

1148
01:00:50,080 --> 01:00:54,000
Speaker 3: the broader vibe shift narrative where you have some of

1149
01:00:54,040 --> 01:00:56,000
Speaker 3: these I was talking about this in the context of

1150
01:00:56,040 --> 01:00:59,080
Speaker 3: Kimmel last week is like the market is catching up

1151
01:00:59,120 --> 01:01:01,960
Speaker 3: to Kimmel and Colbert to some extent, Like there are

1152
01:01:02,520 --> 01:01:06,160
Speaker 3: structural conversations to be had about people who are making

1153
01:01:06,920 --> 01:01:11,080
Speaker 3: shows that are getting just a fraction of the viewership

1154
01:01:11,160 --> 01:01:14,000
Speaker 3: they used to get with a lot of the same overhead.

1155
01:01:14,080 --> 01:01:16,480
Speaker 3: So Kimmel mentioned there are hundreds of people that work

1156
01:01:16,520 --> 01:01:19,680
Speaker 3: on you know, these shows between him Colbert, like that's

1157
01:01:19,720 --> 01:01:21,000
Speaker 3: those hundreds of jobs.

1158
01:01:21,040 --> 01:01:23,919
Speaker 4: Like, yeah, man, that's hundreds of jobs. That's a lot

1159
01:01:23,920 --> 01:01:24,360
Speaker 4: of money.

1160
01:01:25,320 --> 01:01:29,000
Speaker 3: And you know, it's it's not quite trickling into social

1161
01:01:29,080 --> 01:01:31,480
Speaker 3: media in ways that are super profitable for these companies

1162
01:01:31,520 --> 01:01:35,240
Speaker 3: as linear television starts to decline. So in some sense, yes,

1163
01:01:35,280 --> 01:01:37,240
Speaker 3: the market is catching up with these guys in a

1164
01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:40,880
Speaker 3: business sense, but also in a content sense that you

1165
01:01:40,920 --> 01:01:43,360
Speaker 3: know what they're what they're offering. I mean, these late

1166
01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:46,720
Speaker 3: night hosts are having like Gavin Newsome and Adam schiff On.

1167
01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:51,360
Speaker 3: It's this like super niche content for us, as I

1168
01:01:51,360 --> 01:01:55,520
Speaker 3: always describe it, resistant resistance wine moms uh.

1169
01:01:55,560 --> 01:01:57,160
Speaker 4: And there's like not.

1170
01:01:57,680 --> 01:01:59,600
Speaker 3: The same amount of money in that as there was

1171
01:01:59,840 --> 01:02:02,120
Speaker 3: you know, Hay for Love and I Love Him Jay

1172
01:02:02,160 --> 01:02:05,280
Speaker 3: Leno in nineteen ninety six, it's just totally different games.

1173
01:02:05,280 --> 01:02:07,360
Speaker 3: So in some sense, the market is catching up with them,

1174
01:02:07,400 --> 01:02:12,200
Speaker 3: and in some sense, these companies are starting to realize

1175
01:02:12,240 --> 01:02:15,760
Speaker 3: that they've maybe ignored a swath of the country and

1176
01:02:15,800 --> 01:02:18,960
Speaker 3: that they could make money off that swath of the country.

1177
01:02:19,160 --> 01:02:20,240
Speaker 4: And Crystal.

1178
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:23,600
Speaker 3: If there is a CBS Free Press merger and you

1179
01:02:23,680 --> 01:02:27,560
Speaker 3: start to see some more right leaning content at a

1180
01:02:27,600 --> 01:02:32,040
Speaker 3: place like CBS, then yeah, actually there could be potential

1181
01:02:32,200 --> 01:02:35,800
Speaker 3: for adem who will talk about this later in the show.

1182
01:02:35,840 --> 01:02:39,000
Speaker 3: To your point, if they have the Stones, but if

1183
01:02:39,040 --> 01:02:41,880
Speaker 3: a DEM wanted to mess with them, I mean, maybe

1184
01:02:41,880 --> 01:02:43,360
Speaker 3: that's coming for Sherry Redstone.

1185
01:02:44,040 --> 01:02:47,960
Speaker 2: M Yeah, it's it's possible. It's possible. I'll believe it.

1186
01:02:48,080 --> 01:02:50,400
Speaker 2: I'll believe the DEM with the Stones when I see it.

1187
01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:55,280
Speaker 2: They have not emerged yet, but yeah, I mean you

1188
01:02:55,360 --> 01:02:59,600
Speaker 2: have that, you have the Ellison Family also potentially buying

1189
01:02:59,720 --> 01:03:04,280
Speaker 2: CS then and HBO and Comedy Central. You've got obviously

1190
01:03:04,320 --> 01:03:07,440
Speaker 2: TikTok coming under the you know already has an idea

1191
01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:10,920
Speaker 2: of Sensor involved and is likely to be also you know,

1192
01:03:11,120 --> 01:03:16,240
Speaker 2: Ellison Family plus Fox News. So you've got Twitter obviously

1193
01:03:16,280 --> 01:03:20,120
Speaker 2: already owned by Elon Musk. So there's a lot of

1194
01:03:20,120 --> 01:03:24,640
Speaker 2: conservative media apparatus that is already out there, and that

1195
01:03:24,880 --> 01:03:27,320
Speaker 2: is you know, going to that Trump is trying to

1196
01:03:27,360 --> 01:03:30,720
Speaker 2: consolidate right now as we speak. And so the goal,

1197
01:03:30,800 --> 01:03:35,000
Speaker 2: the overall plan is, Okay, I'm going to consolidate ownership

1198
01:03:35,120 --> 01:03:39,400
Speaker 2: of as many media properties in my ally's hands, which

1199
01:03:39,440 --> 01:03:42,440
Speaker 2: is a large chunk of the media space. And the

1200
01:03:42,440 --> 01:03:45,400
Speaker 2: fact that you've had so much consolidation and media makes

1201
01:03:45,400 --> 01:03:47,640
Speaker 2: this much easier for an authoritarian like Trump to be

1202
01:03:47,640 --> 01:03:50,280
Speaker 2: able to effectuate. So you've got a large chunk in

1203
01:03:50,360 --> 01:03:53,560
Speaker 2: the hands of his allies effectively him, and then you

1204
01:03:53,640 --> 01:03:58,040
Speaker 2: have another chunk that you are using the you're weaponizing

1205
01:03:58,040 --> 01:04:01,880
Speaker 2: the government to try to coerce and keep them in line.

1206
01:04:02,240 --> 01:04:06,400
Speaker 2: Now Kimmel has been brought back, but a message has

1207
01:04:06,440 --> 01:04:10,080
Speaker 2: been sent. And we covered how last week the view,

1208
01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:13,680
Speaker 2: which was set in the sights of Brennan Carr, called

1209
01:04:13,680 --> 01:04:16,760
Speaker 2: them explicitly as the next target, how they were too

1210
01:04:16,800 --> 01:04:20,240
Speaker 2: cowardly to say anything about this. In the first days

1211
01:04:20,280 --> 01:04:22,720
Speaker 2: after Kimmel was taken off the air, they did break

1212
01:04:22,760 --> 01:04:26,240
Speaker 2: their silence, I think again because the audience was like,

1213
01:04:26,280 --> 01:04:27,200
Speaker 2: what the hell is like?

1214
01:04:27,920 --> 01:04:28,960
Speaker 5: How cowardly are you?

1215
01:04:29,040 --> 01:04:31,560
Speaker 2: Like? What you're not going to say anything. Now they claimed, oh,

1216
01:04:31,560 --> 01:04:33,520
Speaker 2: we were waiting to see if Jimmy Kimmel was going

1217
01:04:33,560 --> 01:04:36,720
Speaker 2: to say anything. Both they were just afraid and then

1218
01:04:36,720 --> 01:04:38,720
Speaker 2: when they saw the backlash, they realized they couldn't get

1219
01:04:38,720 --> 01:04:41,480
Speaker 2: away with not saying anything. But anyway, the point, the

1220
01:04:41,520 --> 01:04:44,360
Speaker 2: point I'm trying to make here is that many people,

1221
01:04:44,680 --> 01:04:50,680
Speaker 2: whether they realize it or not, journalists, comedians, podcasters, whoever,

1222
01:04:52,040 --> 01:04:55,480
Speaker 2: they will think about this episode when they're writing their

1223
01:04:55,520 --> 01:05:00,840
Speaker 2: monologues or crafting their commentary or riffing on cable news networks.

1224
01:05:00,960 --> 01:05:04,920
Speaker 2: They will think about what happened here. They will again

1225
01:05:05,040 --> 01:05:07,920
Speaker 2: could be without even realizing it, they'll trim their sales

1226
01:05:07,960 --> 01:05:11,080
Speaker 2: a little bit to not provoke that ire of Trump

1227
01:05:11,200 --> 01:05:14,720
Speaker 2: World and create a big problem for themselves and their employers,

1228
01:05:14,760 --> 01:05:17,640
Speaker 2: because no one should have any confidence that their employers

1229
01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:20,520
Speaker 2: are going to stand up for them in this fight

1230
01:05:20,560 --> 01:05:24,120
Speaker 2: with the Trump administration. They're not your best hope, is

1231
01:05:24,440 --> 01:05:27,400
Speaker 2: you know, the like the grassroots backlash is kind of

1232
01:05:27,440 --> 01:05:29,920
Speaker 2: your best hope. But you have to be a Jimmy

1233
01:05:30,000 --> 01:05:35,240
Speaker 2: Kimmel level national figure, prominent national figure to expect that

1234
01:05:35,240 --> 01:05:37,240
Speaker 2: that is going to be there for you as well.

1235
01:05:37,360 --> 01:05:39,720
Speaker 2: So in any case, even with Kimmel, at least for

1236
01:05:39,800 --> 01:05:42,200
Speaker 2: now back in the air again, you still have this,

1237
01:05:43,240 --> 01:05:47,000
Speaker 2: you know, this conflict between ABC and Disney and now

1238
01:05:47,080 --> 01:05:50,480
Speaker 2: these affiliates Next Star and Sineclair. So it's not like

1239
01:05:50,520 --> 01:05:53,480
Speaker 2: the problem has completely gone away. But even with him

1240
01:05:53,520 --> 01:05:56,840
Speaker 2: back on the air, a message has been sent and

1241
01:05:57,360 --> 01:06:00,240
Speaker 2: you know, a chilling effect when you add this to

1242
01:06:00,360 --> 01:06:03,400
Speaker 2: the previous actions taken by the Trump administration as well.

1243
01:06:03,760 --> 01:06:09,560
Speaker 3: Kimmel rounded out his response with a bit where Robert

1244
01:06:09,640 --> 01:06:14,200
Speaker 3: de Niro is the new FCC commissioner, And what's a

1245
01:06:14,200 --> 01:06:15,760
Speaker 3: couple of takeaways for that. I mean, first of all,

1246
01:06:15,840 --> 01:06:18,240
Speaker 3: you could have read Trump's truth social like in the

1247
01:06:18,320 --> 01:06:21,920
Speaker 3: voice of Roy Cone, and actually believe that roy Cone

1248
01:06:22,040 --> 01:06:25,280
Speaker 3: wrote it. That's what it sounded like. He says, last

1249
01:06:25,280 --> 01:06:27,840
Speaker 3: time I went after them, they gave me sixteen million dollars.

1250
01:06:27,880 --> 01:06:31,120
Speaker 3: This one sounds even more lucrative. A true bunch of losers.

1251
01:06:32,160 --> 01:06:34,720
Speaker 3: You could absolutely do that, and you would be like, oh, yes,

1252
01:06:34,760 --> 01:06:37,040
Speaker 3: this is a mafia boss, but it's of course the

1253
01:06:37,040 --> 01:06:40,160
Speaker 3: president of the United States, and so on the one hand,

1254
01:06:40,920 --> 01:06:45,080
Speaker 3: they're also going to like Kimmel didn't really pull any punches.

1255
01:06:45,120 --> 01:06:47,880
Speaker 3: I don't think Kimmel or Colbert will really pull any punches.

1256
01:06:47,880 --> 01:06:49,360
Speaker 3: As long as Colbert is on the air, I don't

1257
01:06:49,400 --> 01:06:52,720
Speaker 3: think seth Meyer's going to pull any punches. And so

1258
01:06:53,480 --> 01:06:57,560
Speaker 3: if what they think about going forward is like jokes

1259
01:06:57,600 --> 01:07:02,000
Speaker 3: that are based on false information that are going to

1260
01:07:02,200 --> 01:07:07,880
Speaker 3: needlessly inflame a big portion of the country, then I

1261
01:07:07,920 --> 01:07:11,440
Speaker 3: think that's a good thing. If it does end up

1262
01:07:11,600 --> 01:07:15,760
Speaker 3: censoring any like just left of center criticism of Donald Trump,

1263
01:07:15,880 --> 01:07:18,480
Speaker 3: that's a bad thing. So it's just one of these

1264
01:07:19,040 --> 01:07:22,040
Speaker 3: I don't know, it's one of these stories that is.

1265
01:07:23,600 --> 01:07:25,080
Speaker 4: I don't know about you, Crystal. It just for me,

1266
01:07:25,120 --> 01:07:26,640
Speaker 4: it's so annoying.

1267
01:07:26,880 --> 01:07:29,000
Speaker 3: Again, we were talking about this with the UN where

1268
01:07:29,040 --> 01:07:31,600
Speaker 3: it's like Trump has as someone on the right, Oh sorry,

1269
01:07:31,600 --> 01:07:33,000
Speaker 3: I just touched my microphone, but as somebody on the

1270
01:07:33,040 --> 01:07:37,920
Speaker 3: right like Trump often will have this like directionally correct

1271
01:07:38,560 --> 01:07:41,320
Speaker 3: approach to like, for example, the problems at the UN,

1272
01:07:41,600 --> 01:07:45,480
Speaker 3: and then he just like talks like he's a mafia boss,

1273
01:07:45,480 --> 01:07:48,360
Speaker 3: like he's Robert de Niro in a Mafia movie, or

1274
01:07:48,520 --> 01:07:51,800
Speaker 3: literally like he's Roy Kohene and you're like, oh my gosh,

1275
01:07:51,840 --> 01:07:54,880
Speaker 3: like do you have to do it this way?

1276
01:07:55,040 --> 01:07:55,640
Speaker 4: But he does.

1277
01:07:56,200 --> 01:07:59,880
Speaker 2: You don't think there's anything directionally correct though about like

1278
01:08:00,040 --> 01:08:02,120
Speaker 2: answoring comedians monologue.

1279
01:08:01,600 --> 01:08:04,880
Speaker 3: And look about pushing back on what Kimmel said at

1280
01:08:04,920 --> 01:08:08,040
Speaker 3: a like about that potentially being a MAGA shooter after it.

1281
01:08:08,000 --> 01:08:09,600
Speaker 5: Was sure take issue with it.

1282
01:08:09,680 --> 01:08:12,000
Speaker 2: I mean I personally, I don't have a problem with

1283
01:08:12,040 --> 01:08:13,720
Speaker 2: what Kimmel said, because I think the point he was

1284
01:08:13,720 --> 01:08:16,639
Speaker 2: trying to make is they're like doing everything to make

1285
01:08:16,680 --> 01:08:19,400
Speaker 2: it like this had nothing to do with us, right,

1286
01:08:19,720 --> 01:08:21,960
Speaker 2: And that's true, Like everybody was doing that, you know

1287
01:08:22,120 --> 01:08:24,320
Speaker 2: Ryan a minute and openly that he's like hoping that

1288
01:08:24,360 --> 01:08:26,160
Speaker 2: it wasn't a left wing shar will. It turned out that,

1289
01:08:26,280 --> 01:08:28,360
Speaker 2: you know, based on what we know in Tyler, seems

1290
01:08:28,400 --> 01:08:33,280
Speaker 2: like he was motivated by LGBTQ issues in particular. Again

1291
01:08:33,360 --> 01:08:35,519
Speaker 2: at least based on what we know at this point.

1292
01:08:35,960 --> 01:08:38,599
Speaker 2: But like that wasn't even the major crux of the joke.

1293
01:08:38,640 --> 01:08:40,599
Speaker 2: The major crux of the joke was poking fun at

1294
01:08:40,640 --> 01:08:43,760
Speaker 2: Trump because he didn't give a shit that Charlie Kirk died.

1295
01:08:44,040 --> 01:08:46,519
Speaker 2: Like that Charlie Kirk was murdered. He gets asked about

1296
01:08:46,560 --> 01:08:48,479
Speaker 2: it and he's like, oh, yeah, I'm doing great. Take

1297
01:08:48,479 --> 01:08:50,720
Speaker 2: a look at my construction. Like that was actually like

1298
01:08:50,800 --> 01:08:52,880
Speaker 2: the real joke that was going on here. So personally,

1299
01:08:52,920 --> 01:08:55,760
Speaker 2: I would have loved to see Jimmy Kimmel wore defiant

1300
01:08:56,280 --> 01:08:59,600
Speaker 2: versus emotional. And the reporting is that that was his

1301
01:08:59,680 --> 01:09:03,200
Speaker 2: original instinct in the face of the backlash, and that

1302
01:09:03,320 --> 01:09:06,719
Speaker 2: was part of what made ABC Disney feel like, Okay, well,

1303
01:09:06,760 --> 01:09:08,920
Speaker 2: we have the present coming after us, with the FCC

1304
01:09:08,960 --> 01:09:12,160
Speaker 2: commissioner coming after us, and Jimmy is unre repentant and

1305
01:09:12,240 --> 01:09:14,200
Speaker 2: not willing to go out here and grovel, so I

1306
01:09:14,200 --> 01:09:15,679
Speaker 2: guess we're gonna have to pull him off the air.

1307
01:09:16,840 --> 01:09:21,600
Speaker 2: So in any case, like you know, Trump, he literally

1308
01:09:21,640 --> 01:09:24,760
Speaker 2: said that people should not be allowed to criticize him

1309
01:09:24,960 --> 01:09:28,160
Speaker 2: like that is his view. His genuine view is that

1310
01:09:28,200 --> 01:09:30,640
Speaker 2: the media should genuflect, that they should be just like

1311
01:09:30,680 --> 01:09:34,759
Speaker 2: his cabinet and constantly praise his greatness, and that anything

1312
01:09:35,320 --> 01:09:39,559
Speaker 2: outside of that should be basically illegal and barred and

1313
01:09:39,600 --> 01:09:42,519
Speaker 2: taken off the air. So, you know, while there are

1314
01:09:42,600 --> 01:09:44,640
Speaker 2: other areas where I agree with you, Trump will be

1315
01:09:44,800 --> 01:09:47,400
Speaker 2: like on terras right, Trump will be directionally correct about

1316
01:09:47,560 --> 01:09:49,920
Speaker 2: or have make some point about the way the previous

1317
01:09:49,920 --> 01:09:52,840
Speaker 2: system has failed, and then come up with the scheme

1318
01:09:52,840 --> 01:09:54,000
Speaker 2: that makes everything way worse.

1319
01:09:54,320 --> 01:09:57,160
Speaker 5: On this one, I don't. I don't see that. I don't.

1320
01:09:57,439 --> 01:10:00,960
Speaker 2: There's nothing about this to me that is directionally correct whatsoever.

1321
01:10:01,200 --> 01:10:04,320
Speaker 2: And you know, if Jimmy Kimmel sucks so bad and

1322
01:10:04,360 --> 01:10:06,519
Speaker 2: his ratings are so bad and it's so expensive and whatever,

1323
01:10:06,640 --> 01:10:09,120
Speaker 2: guess what, you don't have to do anything like that.

1324
01:10:09,160 --> 01:10:12,040
Speaker 2: Business decision is going to be made at some point.

1325
01:10:12,720 --> 01:10:15,479
Speaker 2: You I mean, you're right, these are dinosaur business models.

1326
01:10:15,520 --> 01:10:18,840
Speaker 2: There's no world in which two hundred people working on

1327
01:10:18,880 --> 01:10:20,920
Speaker 2: a single show, which I think is the number that

1328
01:10:20,960 --> 01:10:25,120
Speaker 2: I heard for Jimmy Kimmel, is going to sustain long

1329
01:10:25,240 --> 01:10:28,400
Speaker 2: into the future. That's just not the world we live

1330
01:10:28,439 --> 01:10:33,160
Speaker 2: in now with totally fragmented media diets. So you know,

1331
01:10:33,320 --> 01:10:35,840
Speaker 2: if you hate Jimmy Kimmel, that problem was going to

1332
01:10:35,920 --> 01:10:38,720
Speaker 2: solve itself ultimately because the United States did not need

1333
01:10:38,720 --> 01:10:39,160
Speaker 2: to weigh in.

1334
01:10:39,200 --> 01:10:42,040
Speaker 3: It's the exact same thing with Colbert, and weighing in

1335
01:10:42,479 --> 01:10:44,559
Speaker 3: changes the news cycle in a way where it's like,

1336
01:10:44,800 --> 01:10:47,800
Speaker 3: you know, people are like, oh, Trump got Colbert cansl

1337
01:10:47,880 --> 01:10:51,480
Speaker 3: was like, actually, probably Colbert got Colbert canceled by making.

1338
01:10:51,479 --> 01:10:52,479
Speaker 4: Millions of dollars a year.

1339
01:10:52,520 --> 01:10:55,200
Speaker 3: But obviously, now these companies can use their decisions as

1340
01:10:55,240 --> 01:10:58,479
Speaker 3: opportunities to like suck up to the administration and be like, hey,

1341
01:10:58,600 --> 01:11:01,120
Speaker 3: we because Trump in his We'll move on after this.

1342
01:11:01,200 --> 01:11:03,400
Speaker 3: But in his post, he said that ABC told the

1343
01:11:03,400 --> 01:11:06,280
Speaker 3: White House. This is actually very interesting. Uh he said

1344
01:11:06,320 --> 01:11:09,000
Speaker 3: ABC told the White House that Kimmel had been canceled.

1345
01:11:09,280 --> 01:11:12,120
Speaker 2: He says, yes, the White House was told by ABC

1346
01:11:12,280 --> 01:11:14,000
Speaker 2: that his show was canceled.

1347
01:11:14,080 --> 01:11:16,519
Speaker 5: Because it might be a lie. Trump does make shit up,

1348
01:11:16,800 --> 01:11:17,160
Speaker 5: so I.

1349
01:11:17,120 --> 01:11:20,280
Speaker 3: Totally or someone lied to him, someone misstarted on the

1350
01:11:20,320 --> 01:11:23,280
Speaker 3: phone call. And because it sounds like they told quote

1351
01:11:23,320 --> 01:11:25,880
Speaker 3: the White House, not him. So he then posted in

1352
01:11:25,920 --> 01:11:28,240
Speaker 3: the UK taking this victory lap about the cancelation of

1353
01:11:28,280 --> 01:11:30,000
Speaker 3: Jimmy Kimble on the firing of Jimmy Kimmel, and that

1354
01:11:30,040 --> 01:11:31,360
Speaker 3: was never the case. It was always said it was

1355
01:11:31,400 --> 01:11:34,639
Speaker 3: an indefinite suspension after the news broke. But that's actually

1356
01:11:34,720 --> 01:11:37,960
Speaker 3: pretty interesting and does speak to how these companies are

1357
01:11:38,000 --> 01:11:42,519
Speaker 3: probably using their business decisions in conversations with the administration, uh,

1358
01:11:42,560 --> 01:11:46,200
Speaker 3: to say, hey, we we're getting ridical Beart, we're getting

1359
01:11:46,280 --> 01:11:49,320
Speaker 3: rid of Kimmel, like we're we're doing the thing. So

1360
01:11:49,479 --> 01:11:54,920
Speaker 3: nothing to ignore on that front. Let's go ahead and

1361
01:11:54,960 --> 01:11:57,240
Speaker 3: move on to Kamala Harris's book tour.

1362
01:11:57,880 --> 01:11:59,639
Speaker 4: Chris, I can't believe I'm saying those.

1363
01:11:59,479 --> 01:12:03,519
Speaker 3: Words and September of twenty twenty five, let alone showing

1364
01:12:03,520 --> 01:12:07,280
Speaker 3: the clips that we're about to show, because Kamala Harris

1365
01:12:07,320 --> 01:12:09,280
Speaker 3: fully unreconstructed?

1366
01:12:09,400 --> 01:12:10,439
Speaker 4: Is that fair to say, Crystal?

1367
01:12:11,680 --> 01:12:14,240
Speaker 5: It seems fair, I would say so, it seems fair.

1368
01:12:14,560 --> 01:12:18,080
Speaker 3: The book is called one hundred and seven Days. She

1369
01:12:18,200 --> 01:12:21,479
Speaker 3: has been on Good Morning America, The View and Rachel

1370
01:12:21,760 --> 01:12:26,040
Speaker 3: Maddow to sell this book, which came out yesterday, and

1371
01:12:26,120 --> 01:12:29,439
Speaker 3: it's going exactly how you would expect.

1372
01:12:29,720 --> 01:12:31,000
Speaker 4: So let's roll see one.

1373
01:12:31,400 --> 01:12:36,400
Speaker 12: My concern about him running for reelection was completely separate

1374
01:12:36,760 --> 01:12:40,840
Speaker 12: from my admiration and knowledge about his capacity to serve

1375
01:12:40,880 --> 01:12:44,160
Speaker 12: as president of the United States, which was consistent and

1376
01:12:44,280 --> 01:12:45,000
Speaker 12: never waivered.

1377
01:12:45,080 --> 01:12:47,160
Speaker 13: Well, when we sit here to athlete sit here today,

1378
01:12:47,160 --> 01:12:49,320
Speaker 13: do you think he would have been up for running

1379
01:12:49,320 --> 01:12:50,840
Speaker 13: the country for four more years?

1380
01:12:51,320 --> 01:12:53,200
Speaker 4: I here's the distinction that I make.

1381
01:12:53,800 --> 01:12:58,120
Speaker 12: It's and having had the experience myself, it is one

1382
01:12:58,160 --> 01:13:02,120
Speaker 12: thing to have the capacity to govern. It is another

1383
01:13:02,160 --> 01:13:05,400
Speaker 12: thing to go through an election for president of the

1384
01:13:05,439 --> 01:13:09,000
Speaker 12: United States. And by the way, another piece of what

1385
01:13:09,200 --> 01:13:13,040
Speaker 12: is unprecedented and a bit historical about that race. It

1386
01:13:13,120 --> 01:13:17,400
Speaker 12: is the closest presidential race in the twenty first century

1387
01:13:17,560 --> 01:13:18,400
Speaker 12: in terms of the outcome.

1388
01:13:18,560 --> 01:13:22,840
Speaker 14: Wow, you know, say that again, because he likes to

1389
01:13:22,880 --> 01:13:25,000
Speaker 14: say over and over again, he's got a mandate and well.

1390
01:13:25,040 --> 01:13:27,919
Speaker 12: And that's part of why I wrote this book, because

1391
01:13:28,560 --> 01:13:30,880
Speaker 12: history will talk about this race.

1392
01:13:31,720 --> 01:13:33,280
Speaker 4: It is part of American history.

1393
01:13:34,040 --> 01:13:39,120
Speaker 12: I didn't fully appreciate how much people wanted to know

1394
01:13:39,200 --> 01:13:43,200
Speaker 12: there was a difference between me and President Biden.

1395
01:13:44,439 --> 01:13:45,120
Speaker 4: I thought it was.

1396
01:13:45,160 --> 01:13:50,000
Speaker 12: Obvious, and I didn't want to offer a difference in

1397
01:13:50,040 --> 01:13:52,720
Speaker 12: a way that would be received or suggested to be

1398
01:13:52,840 --> 01:13:53,800
Speaker 12: a criticism.

1399
01:13:54,280 --> 01:13:54,720
Speaker 4: And in.

1400
01:13:57,160 --> 01:13:59,679
Speaker 14: During your appearance and you write about it, you say,

1401
01:13:59,720 --> 01:14:02,000
Speaker 14: every thing about my appearance on the View was going

1402
01:14:02,040 --> 01:14:07,320
Speaker 14: well until it wasn't. And if you recall, you were

1403
01:14:07,320 --> 01:14:11,559
Speaker 14: here twenty eight days before the election, and I asked

1404
01:14:11,640 --> 01:14:14,639
Speaker 14: you if there was anything you would have done differently

1405
01:14:14,680 --> 01:14:19,080
Speaker 14: than President Biden during the past four years, and you said, quote,

1406
01:14:19,160 --> 01:14:21,120
Speaker 14: there is not a thing that comes to mind.

1407
01:14:21,640 --> 01:14:22,200
Speaker 4: End quote.

1408
01:14:22,960 --> 01:14:25,240
Speaker 14: You're right, you had no idea. You just pull the

1409
01:14:25,240 --> 01:14:28,160
Speaker 14: pin on a hand grenade. In the moment I knew

1410
01:14:29,400 --> 01:14:34,200
Speaker 14: the Trump campaign weaponized your answer against you. My question,

1411
01:14:35,160 --> 01:14:38,559
Speaker 14: and some including James Carville and Jake Tapper point to

1412
01:14:38,560 --> 01:14:42,080
Speaker 14: that answer as a turning point in your candidacy. Do

1413
01:14:42,160 --> 01:14:48,480
Speaker 14: you think that moment tip the election no.

1414
01:14:47,120 --> 01:14:52,240
Speaker 3: Good because Sonny doesn't want to take the blank? Chrysl

1415
01:14:52,280 --> 01:14:55,479
Speaker 3: I'm so excited to get your response to Kamala Harris

1416
01:14:55,680 --> 01:14:59,519
Speaker 3: answering some pretty softball questions, if I may say so,

1417
01:14:59,720 --> 01:15:04,160
Speaker 3: about out why she let Joe Biden run and how

1418
01:15:04,200 --> 01:15:06,400
Speaker 3: she ended up kind of well, not that it was

1419
01:15:06,439 --> 01:15:08,280
Speaker 3: her choice to let Joe Biden run, but why she

1420
01:15:08,880 --> 01:15:12,280
Speaker 3: covered for Joe Biden and how she responded to that

1421
01:15:12,280 --> 01:15:15,680
Speaker 3: in the book, and then how she ultimately ended up

1422
01:15:15,720 --> 01:15:16,679
Speaker 3: losing to Donald Trump.

1423
01:15:17,960 --> 01:15:22,880
Speaker 2: I haven't read the book full Disclosure, so but I mean,

1424
01:15:23,040 --> 01:15:25,679
Speaker 2: I might write it does seem like there's some somewhat

1425
01:15:25,720 --> 01:15:27,880
Speaker 2: interesting stuff in there. To be honest with you, the

1426
01:15:27,880 --> 01:15:30,280
Speaker 2: book is a little bit more candid than I expected

1427
01:15:30,280 --> 01:15:33,160
Speaker 2: it to be. But then in these public media appearances,

1428
01:15:33,200 --> 01:15:35,439
Speaker 2: she's doing the same old, same old, like let me

1429
01:15:35,520 --> 01:15:37,720
Speaker 2: try to split the difference, let me try to make

1430
01:15:37,760 --> 01:15:40,839
Speaker 2: everybody happy, which just ends up making literally no one happy.

1431
01:15:41,320 --> 01:15:45,120
Speaker 2: The choice of venue is also worth noting, like, if

1432
01:15:45,200 --> 01:15:48,839
Speaker 2: you want to be new and improved, Kamala Harris improved

1433
01:15:48,840 --> 01:15:51,320
Speaker 2: to the world, you're a different candidate than you, a

1434
01:15:51,360 --> 01:15:54,479
Speaker 2: different person than they thought that you were. Don't just

1435
01:15:54,520 --> 01:15:56,880
Speaker 2: do a view and Rachel Matta like, go into Linestone,

1436
01:15:56,920 --> 01:15:57,839
Speaker 2: take some risks.

1437
01:15:57,720 --> 01:15:58,960
Speaker 5: Like go on with Joe.

1438
01:15:59,120 --> 01:16:02,040
Speaker 2: Imagine she did them Joe Rogan podcast A long last

1439
01:16:02,200 --> 01:16:07,080
Speaker 2: Yeah about that, that would be interesting, right, But it's

1440
01:16:07,120 --> 01:16:09,320
Speaker 2: just I mean, in a sense, I sort of feel

1441
01:16:09,360 --> 01:16:11,360
Speaker 2: bad for because I feel like, I don't know, she

1442
01:16:11,400 --> 01:16:15,719
Speaker 2: walks herself into this life where she's questing after ambition

1443
01:16:15,920 --> 01:16:20,719
Speaker 2: and power, and she clearly doesn't really care about any

1444
01:16:20,760 --> 01:16:23,720
Speaker 2: particular issues in a way that's like motivating for her.

1445
01:16:24,040 --> 01:16:28,800
Speaker 2: Is deeply uncomfortable in these situations, constantly trying to find

1446
01:16:28,880 --> 01:16:32,160
Speaker 2: the right answer, like the correct answer versus what she

1447
01:16:32,280 --> 01:16:34,800
Speaker 2: actually thinks. And then you just end up with this

1448
01:16:34,840 --> 01:16:38,480
Speaker 2: pathetic display where you have to say you didn't realize

1449
01:16:38,560 --> 01:16:41,160
Speaker 2: people wanted you to be different than Joe Biden and

1450
01:16:41,200 --> 01:16:43,519
Speaker 2: you thought it would be obvious, which to me is

1451
01:16:43,600 --> 01:16:49,440
Speaker 2: like a to me, that's a gesture towards her identity

1452
01:16:49,720 --> 01:16:51,479
Speaker 2: that she just thought like, well, I'm a black woman,

1453
01:16:51,520 --> 01:16:53,160
Speaker 2: of course I'm different from Joe Biden. It's like, no,

1454
01:16:53,240 --> 01:16:55,880
Speaker 2: that's not what we're talking about. Here, you are his

1455
01:16:56,040 --> 01:16:59,760
Speaker 2: vice president. You have stood there and backed his every decision.

1456
01:17:00,240 --> 01:17:02,800
Speaker 2: People wanted to know they're not happy with how things

1457
01:17:02,880 --> 01:17:05,360
Speaker 2: are going, Yes, they want to know how you're different,

1458
01:17:05,439 --> 01:17:08,960
Speaker 2: what you think went wrong, why they should put their

1459
01:17:09,000 --> 01:17:12,519
Speaker 2: trust in you to create a different outcome than what

1460
01:17:12,560 --> 01:17:16,360
Speaker 2: they're experiencing right now. And then you know, I've also

1461
01:17:16,439 --> 01:17:19,320
Speaker 2: seen some of the discussion around what she had to

1462
01:17:19,360 --> 01:17:24,080
Speaker 2: say about Gaza. Allegedly privately she was urging Biden to

1463
01:17:24,120 --> 01:17:26,960
Speaker 2: be more compassionate, blah blah blah, And it's like, okay,

1464
01:17:26,960 --> 01:17:29,760
Speaker 2: but when it actually mattered, when you were in a

1465
01:17:29,840 --> 01:17:35,280
Speaker 2: position of power, you did nothing to change anything, right,

1466
01:17:35,320 --> 01:17:38,240
Speaker 2: And now we're supposed to believe after the fact that, oh,

1467
01:17:38,280 --> 01:17:40,880
Speaker 2: you were genuinely you were being courageous behind the scenes.

1468
01:17:40,920 --> 01:17:43,080
Speaker 2: Like I'm sorry, no one should buy that, No one

1469
01:17:43,120 --> 01:17:44,760
Speaker 2: should believe that whatsoever.

1470
01:17:45,680 --> 01:17:48,679
Speaker 3: She is the I feel like the physical embodiment of

1471
01:17:48,800 --> 01:17:51,880
Speaker 3: a lot of the Democratic Party's problems, Like it's illustrated

1472
01:17:51,880 --> 01:17:54,360
Speaker 3: in this one woman so perfectly. Let's get more into

1473
01:17:54,439 --> 01:17:58,880
Speaker 3: the identity conversation because she One of the big revelations

1474
01:17:59,120 --> 01:18:01,280
Speaker 3: in the book is that she her first choice to

1475
01:18:01,320 --> 01:18:04,400
Speaker 3: add to vice president. The vice presidential ticket was actually

1476
01:18:04,520 --> 01:18:08,040
Speaker 3: Pete boota judge, and not Tim Wallas, but she believed

1477
01:18:08,120 --> 01:18:12,599
Speaker 3: that as a black woman married to a Jewish man,

1478
01:18:13,080 --> 01:18:18,280
Speaker 3: adding a gay vice presidential candidate to the ticket would

1479
01:18:18,320 --> 01:18:21,439
Speaker 3: have been too much of a risk. Now, Rachel Maddow

1480
01:18:22,360 --> 01:18:25,799
Speaker 3: confreditor about this, it was maybe the most uncomfortable moment

1481
01:18:25,840 --> 01:18:29,200
Speaker 3: in a pretty, I don't know, friendly interview.

1482
01:18:29,320 --> 01:18:30,799
Speaker 4: Let's go ahead and rule C three.

1483
01:18:31,200 --> 01:18:33,640
Speaker 15: If his reaction to that, since this part of the

1484
01:18:33,640 --> 01:18:36,599
Speaker 15: book has come out, if you've had any reflection on that,

1485
01:18:36,920 --> 01:18:41,800
Speaker 15: or I guess, I guess I'd ask you to just

1486
01:18:41,880 --> 01:18:44,080
Speaker 15: elaborate on that a little bit. It's hard to hear

1487
01:18:45,520 --> 01:18:47,719
Speaker 15: with you running, as you know, you're the first woman

1488
01:18:47,760 --> 01:18:50,519
Speaker 15: elected vice president, you're a black woman and a South

1489
01:18:50,560 --> 01:18:54,519
Speaker 15: Asian woman elected that high office, very nearly elected president,

1490
01:18:54,760 --> 01:18:56,759
Speaker 15: to say that he couldn't be on the ticket effectively

1491
01:18:56,760 --> 01:18:57,519
Speaker 15: because he was gay.

1492
01:18:57,760 --> 01:18:58,360
Speaker 13: It's hard to hear.

1493
01:18:58,439 --> 01:19:01,280
Speaker 12: No, no, no, that's not what I said that. That's that

1494
01:19:01,479 --> 01:19:03,760
Speaker 12: he couldn't be on the ticket because he is gay.

1495
01:19:04,439 --> 01:19:08,360
Speaker 12: My point, as I write in the book, is that

1496
01:19:09,800 --> 01:19:13,360
Speaker 12: I was clear that in one hundred and seven days

1497
01:19:13,640 --> 01:19:18,719
Speaker 12: in one of the most hotly contested elections, for president

1498
01:19:18,840 --> 01:19:22,760
Speaker 12: United States against someone like Donald Trump, who knows no

1499
01:19:23,000 --> 01:19:28,080
Speaker 12: floor to be a black woman running for president United

1500
01:19:28,120 --> 01:19:34,200
Speaker 12: States and as a vice presidential running mate a gay man,

1501
01:19:35,720 --> 01:19:40,040
Speaker 12: with the stakes being so high, it made me very sad,

1502
01:19:40,120 --> 01:19:43,439
Speaker 12: But I also realized it would be a real risk

1503
01:19:45,880 --> 01:19:46,880
Speaker 12: no matter how.

1504
01:19:47,040 --> 01:19:47,280
Speaker 16: You know.

1505
01:19:47,360 --> 01:19:51,760
Speaker 12: I've been an advocate and an ally of the LGBT

1506
01:19:51,880 --> 01:19:54,679
Speaker 12: community my entire life. So it wasn't about it wasn't

1507
01:19:54,720 --> 01:19:57,360
Speaker 12: about it right, So it wasn't about any any prejudice

1508
01:19:57,400 --> 01:20:02,559
Speaker 12: on my part. But short we had such a short

1509
01:20:02,640 --> 01:20:08,200
Speaker 12: period of time and the stakes were so high. I

1510
01:20:08,240 --> 01:20:15,720
Speaker 12: think Pete is a phenomenal, phenomenal public servant, and I

1511
01:20:15,760 --> 01:20:22,320
Speaker 12: think America is and would be ready for that. But

1512
01:20:22,520 --> 01:20:25,000
Speaker 12: at when I had to make that decision with two

1513
01:20:25,040 --> 01:20:29,880
Speaker 12: weeks to go, you know, And maybe I was being

1514
01:20:30,000 --> 01:20:33,439
Speaker 12: too cautious, you know, I'll let our friends, we should

1515
01:20:33,479 --> 01:20:38,519
Speaker 12: all talk about that. Maybe I was, but that's the

1516
01:20:38,560 --> 01:20:39,400
Speaker 12: decision I made.

1517
01:20:39,800 --> 01:20:43,120
Speaker 3: I like how powerful she thought it was that she

1518
01:20:43,439 --> 01:20:47,000
Speaker 3: was saying she believes Pete Buddha Judge is a phenomenal

1519
01:20:47,400 --> 01:20:51,920
Speaker 3: public servant. As though that's some really important line coming

1520
01:20:51,960 --> 01:20:52,400
Speaker 3: from her.

1521
01:20:52,720 --> 01:20:57,000
Speaker 2: Kamala Harris, I mean, where do you start with this, like,

1522
01:20:58,920 --> 01:21:02,320
Speaker 2: on one level, it gives me flashbacks to the Bernie

1523
01:21:02,439 --> 01:21:05,880
Speaker 2: Elizabeth Warren you're a secret sexist because you told me

1524
01:21:06,120 --> 01:21:09,720
Speaker 2: like women can't be president or something like that conversation,

1525
01:21:10,160 --> 01:21:13,679
Speaker 2: which you know, it appears what Bernie was actually saying

1526
01:21:13,800 --> 01:21:16,200
Speaker 2: was like, Listen, sexism is a real thing. Trump will

1527
01:21:16,240 --> 01:21:19,799
Speaker 2: try to weaponize it. Not like I think I'm sexist

1528
01:21:19,840 --> 01:21:22,160
Speaker 2: and I don't think you should be president, and so

1529
01:21:23,160 --> 01:21:27,000
Speaker 2: Matt out being you know, high dudgeon about an analysis

1530
01:21:27,080 --> 01:21:29,040
Speaker 2: of Listen, it's still you know, it's a lot to

1531
01:21:29,080 --> 01:21:31,240
Speaker 2: have a black woman and a gay guy on the ticket,

1532
01:21:31,320 --> 01:21:33,080
Speaker 2: and we know what Trump will do with that and

1533
01:21:33,280 --> 01:21:36,560
Speaker 2: whatever is annoying to me. Then it's annoying to me

1534
01:21:36,760 --> 01:21:39,120
Speaker 2: that Kamala doesn't stand on business. Like if that's what

1535
01:21:39,160 --> 01:21:41,960
Speaker 2: you thought and that was your analysis, Like girl, you

1536
01:21:42,000 --> 01:21:44,080
Speaker 2: put it in the book. This is actually I'm sure

1537
01:21:44,080 --> 01:21:46,439
Speaker 2: you've had this experience too, where authors will say something

1538
01:21:46,479 --> 01:21:48,960
Speaker 2: provocative and then you go to interview about them about

1539
01:21:49,000 --> 01:21:51,519
Speaker 2: it and they add like a thousand caveats and you're like, dude,

1540
01:21:51,560 --> 01:21:54,759
Speaker 2: you wrote it, like say it with your chest, explain

1541
01:21:54,800 --> 01:21:57,080
Speaker 2: why you felt that way, rather than trying to like

1542
01:21:57,160 --> 01:22:00,160
Speaker 2: run away from it and be all scared, where it

1543
01:22:00,360 --> 01:22:02,360
Speaker 2: just comes off as weakness.

1544
01:22:02,560 --> 01:22:03,960
Speaker 5: So that's number two.

1545
01:22:04,360 --> 01:22:07,439
Speaker 2: Number three, the problem with Pete Bootage is not that

1546
01:22:07,520 --> 01:22:09,320
Speaker 2: it's he's gay, it's that he sucks.

1547
01:22:09,360 --> 01:22:09,800
Speaker 4: It's that his.

1548
01:22:09,960 --> 01:22:13,639
Speaker 2: Neoliberal shill who stands for nothing, who black people can't

1549
01:22:13,640 --> 01:22:17,360
Speaker 2: stand right, Like, that's the problem with Pee Bootajie. Okay,

1550
01:22:17,640 --> 01:22:20,040
Speaker 2: now she doesn't have that problem with him, but that's

1551
01:22:20,080 --> 01:22:23,760
Speaker 2: the actual issue with him. Number four, I think Pete

1552
01:22:23,800 --> 01:22:26,120
Speaker 2: should feel lucky that he dodged this bullet of being

1553
01:22:26,200 --> 01:22:29,400
Speaker 2: not being happy to be associated with this, you know,

1554
01:22:30,120 --> 01:22:33,680
Speaker 2: terrible campaign which ended in disaster in my opinion, for

1555
01:22:33,760 --> 01:22:34,799
Speaker 2: the country and the world.

1556
01:22:35,720 --> 01:22:39,000
Speaker 5: So there's that as well. So there's just there's a lot.

1557
01:22:38,800 --> 01:22:43,400
Speaker 2: Of different layers going on here with this Pete bootaj

1558
01:22:43,439 --> 01:22:44,320
Speaker 2: Judge commentary.

1559
01:22:44,840 --> 01:22:46,840
Speaker 5: And you know the.

1560
01:22:46,840 --> 01:22:49,920
Speaker 2: Last piece, well, there's two other pieces on the question

1561
01:22:49,960 --> 01:22:51,960
Speaker 2: of is the country you're writer for like a black

1562
01:22:52,000 --> 01:22:53,960
Speaker 2: woman and a gay man. Would that have been too

1563
01:22:54,040 --> 01:22:57,360
Speaker 2: much to ask to ask the country to endure? Listen,

1564
01:22:57,400 --> 01:22:59,760
Speaker 2: I'm not one who says that sexism didn't play any

1565
01:22:59,840 --> 01:23:01,599
Speaker 2: role in this campaign. I think it did. I think

1566
01:23:01,640 --> 01:23:05,320
Speaker 2: that that was part of Trump ran this very campy

1567
01:23:06,160 --> 01:23:10,080
Speaker 2: Man campaign. Remember the way that the Madison Square Garden

1568
01:23:10,160 --> 01:23:13,519
Speaker 2: rally was like he leaned into this kind of gender

1569
01:23:13,880 --> 01:23:17,920
Speaker 2: dividean ripping off a shirt at the RNC exactly. So

1570
01:23:18,080 --> 01:23:20,880
Speaker 2: that was that was there, right And I think there's

1571
01:23:20,920 --> 01:23:23,759
Speaker 2: a lot of hostility towards women right now in general.

1572
01:23:23,800 --> 01:23:26,360
Speaker 2: I genuinely feel that coming from like you know, the

1573
01:23:26,400 --> 01:23:29,639
Speaker 2: red pill and the manisphere and whatever, like guys can't

1574
01:23:29,640 --> 01:23:31,599
Speaker 2: get ahead and it's because of these damn women who

1575
01:23:31,640 --> 01:23:34,479
Speaker 2: are keeping them down and nagging them, and they need

1576
01:23:34,520 --> 01:23:35,920
Speaker 2: to be put in their place. Like there is an

1577
01:23:36,000 --> 01:23:37,400
Speaker 2: energy of that right now. That is.

1578
01:23:39,360 --> 01:23:39,519
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1579
01:23:39,560 --> 01:23:41,519
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm trying to kind of work on myself emily,

1580
01:23:41,680 --> 01:23:44,160
Speaker 2: like the self hating thing, but anyway, I'll get there.

1581
01:23:44,160 --> 01:23:48,200
Speaker 3: But imagine powerful Saga could be without you nagging him.

1582
01:23:50,120 --> 01:23:53,000
Speaker 2: I'm sure he feels that way some days. He definitely

1583
01:23:53,000 --> 01:23:59,200
Speaker 2: feels so. In any case, so that was definitely an energy.

1584
01:23:59,280 --> 01:24:02,080
Speaker 2: I think that was you know, I think that played

1585
01:24:02,120 --> 01:24:04,280
Speaker 2: into her loss. I'm not going to say the only fact,

1586
01:24:04,360 --> 01:24:06,400
Speaker 2: but I definitely think that was a factor in her

1587
01:24:06,439 --> 01:24:09,600
Speaker 2: loss as well. There may have been an argument for

1588
01:24:09,800 --> 01:24:13,160
Speaker 2: actually sort of leaning into that, like heightening the contradictions

1589
01:24:13,400 --> 01:24:16,400
Speaker 2: I think it was maybe who was it somebody was

1590
01:24:16,479 --> 01:24:19,679
Speaker 2: arguing for putting another woman on the ticket, like Aggretcha

1591
01:24:19,680 --> 01:24:21,800
Speaker 2: Whitmer or something like that, and actually leaning into it

1592
01:24:22,200 --> 01:24:24,519
Speaker 2: and making the contrast ex was not being afraid of it,

1593
01:24:24,640 --> 01:24:27,320
Speaker 2: not trying to do You're like, I'm actually the one

1594
01:24:27,320 --> 01:24:29,960
Speaker 2: who prosecuted transnational gangs is going to be bigger and

1595
01:24:30,000 --> 01:24:31,920
Speaker 2: badder and tougher than you are, because no one was

1596
01:24:31,920 --> 01:24:34,479
Speaker 2: going to buy that. So you know, I'm not saying

1597
01:24:34,479 --> 01:24:36,559
Speaker 2: a gay man is equivalent to a woman, but if

1598
01:24:36,560 --> 01:24:38,519
Speaker 2: you're like doing the whole we're going to be historic.

1599
01:24:38,920 --> 01:24:41,160
Speaker 2: I don't think that him being a gay man was

1600
01:24:41,200 --> 01:24:46,040
Speaker 2: really the challenge here, and then yeah.

1601
01:24:45,920 --> 01:24:47,200
Speaker 5: I'll I'll just leave it there.

1602
01:24:47,280 --> 01:24:51,000
Speaker 2: There's other things I could say, but you know, the

1603
01:24:51,720 --> 01:24:55,840
Speaker 2: bottom line is that Kamala is still this person who

1604
01:24:55,840 --> 01:25:00,000
Speaker 2: doesn't really believe anything, isn't really ready to stand on business,

1605
01:25:00,080 --> 01:25:04,880
Speaker 2: on literally anything, wilt under the slightest criticism, is constantly

1606
01:25:04,920 --> 01:25:07,720
Speaker 2: trying to please absolutely everyone in a way that is

1607
01:25:07,760 --> 01:25:09,759
Speaker 2: just going to please absolutely no one.

1608
01:25:10,040 --> 01:25:12,320
Speaker 3: So I'm shocked to hear you say that, because if

1609
01:25:12,360 --> 01:25:14,200
Speaker 3: we put C four on the screen, the book actually

1610
01:25:14,200 --> 01:25:18,080
Speaker 3: opens with a Kendrick Lamar quote that I feel really

1611
01:25:18,120 --> 01:25:21,080
Speaker 3: captures the energy of Kamala Harris. I got loyalty, got

1612
01:25:21,160 --> 01:25:25,200
Speaker 3: royalty inside my dna. I was born like this. That

1613
01:25:25,360 --> 01:25:29,639
Speaker 3: is actually at the intro of the book. So, Chris,

1614
01:25:29,720 --> 01:25:32,040
Speaker 3: I'm confused to hear you say that she's not standing

1615
01:25:32,080 --> 01:25:37,400
Speaker 3: on business and that she's timid and seems ambivalent on

1616
01:25:37,439 --> 01:25:40,200
Speaker 3: some of the key issues because she was born like

1617
01:25:40,240 --> 01:25:43,400
Speaker 3: this and royalty is in her DNA, and she listens

1618
01:25:43,400 --> 01:25:48,440
Speaker 3: to rap music, so I assume she's a very badass

1619
01:25:48,680 --> 01:25:52,120
Speaker 3: woman despite the actually no, because of the pantsuits.

1620
01:25:53,200 --> 01:25:55,840
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I've said this very after I did

1621
01:25:55,920 --> 01:25:58,960
Speaker 2: my feminist tirade. I'll say the very unfeminist thing of

1622
01:25:59,040 --> 01:26:01,320
Speaker 2: like this lady loves gig like she should do a

1623
01:26:01,360 --> 01:26:04,160
Speaker 2: cooking show. She'd be so much happier. She's so much

1624
01:26:04,160 --> 01:26:07,400
Speaker 2: more like when you see her in the kitchen, she's

1625
01:26:07,400 --> 01:26:12,280
Speaker 2: in her element. So the headline of the segment is

1626
01:26:12,560 --> 01:26:14,240
Speaker 2: I believe Kamala Harris should be back.

1627
01:26:14,080 --> 01:26:17,040
Speaker 4: In the kitchen crystal Ball, Comma, lets you come back

1628
01:26:17,080 --> 01:26:17,240
Speaker 4: to me.

1629
01:26:17,479 --> 01:26:20,559
Speaker 3: That's the headline. Literally, that is the headline. Oh we'll

1630
01:26:20,600 --> 01:26:23,240
Speaker 3: see I hope that is literally the headline. Now, Josh

1631
01:26:23,240 --> 01:26:27,000
Speaker 3: Shapiro is obviously getting in on the fund.

1632
01:26:27,160 --> 01:26:29,080
Speaker 4: So here's see five. We'll put this on the screen.

1633
01:26:29,720 --> 01:26:32,360
Speaker 3: Governor Josh Shapiro Pennsylvania seem more interested in defining the

1634
01:26:32,439 --> 01:26:35,120
Speaker 3: role for himself than helping her win. And Kamala Harris

1635
01:26:35,120 --> 01:26:38,560
Speaker 3: recounted how Shapiro was questioning an eight about the pieces.

1636
01:26:38,200 --> 01:26:40,559
Speaker 4: Of art he could use to decorate the vice president.

1637
01:26:40,600 --> 01:26:42,639
Speaker 2: My God, I believe this about him. By the way,

1638
01:26:42,760 --> 01:26:43,840
Speaker 2: I think this is true.

1639
01:26:43,680 --> 01:26:48,160
Speaker 3: Touching some strays in the otherwise very I don't know,

1640
01:26:48,280 --> 01:26:50,599
Speaker 3: gentle memoir might be one way to put it. Let's

1641
01:26:50,640 --> 01:26:54,960
Speaker 3: go ahead and listen to Shapiro responding six.

1642
01:26:55,360 --> 01:26:58,240
Speaker 13: I mean, look, I haven't read the former vice president's book,

1643
01:26:58,280 --> 01:27:00,920
Speaker 13: and she's going to have to. She's going to have

1644
01:27:00,960 --> 01:27:04,040
Speaker 13: to answer to how she was in the room and

1645
01:27:04,120 --> 01:27:07,800
Speaker 13: yet never said anything publicly. I can tell you that

1646
01:27:08,280 --> 01:27:11,560
Speaker 13: I wasn't in the room, but when I was confronted

1647
01:27:11,680 --> 01:27:16,760
Speaker 13: with engagement with the former president. In looking at it

1648
01:27:16,920 --> 01:27:20,680
Speaker 13: simply from the perspective of how's he doing in Pennsylvania,

1649
01:27:20,800 --> 01:27:23,519
Speaker 13: could he win Pennsylvania? Because I think, Steven, you understand,

1650
01:27:23,640 --> 01:27:25,920
Speaker 13: if you can't win pennsylvania's pretty darn hard to win.

1651
01:27:26,280 --> 01:27:30,880
Speaker 13: The national election, and I was very vocal with him privately,

1652
01:27:31,040 --> 01:27:35,240
Speaker 13: and extremely vocal with his staff about my concerns about

1653
01:27:35,280 --> 01:27:38,120
Speaker 13: his fitness to be able to run for another term.

1654
01:27:38,400 --> 01:27:41,000
Speaker 13: I was direct with them. I told them my concerns,

1655
01:27:41,240 --> 01:27:43,640
Speaker 13: I told them my worries. I told them what I

1656
01:27:43,760 --> 01:27:46,080
Speaker 13: was seeing in the polls. I think it seemed to

1657
01:27:46,120 --> 01:27:50,479
Speaker 13: me that maybe his staff wasn't counseling him with all

1658
01:27:50,520 --> 01:27:53,560
Speaker 13: the information that we knew on the ground here in

1659
01:27:53,600 --> 01:27:56,919
Speaker 13: Pennsylvania that frankly, they should have shared with the president.

1660
01:27:57,600 --> 01:27:59,880
Speaker 2: Convince it, Crystal, you're read in a vote for Shiman.

1661
01:28:00,000 --> 01:28:03,640
Speaker 2: And I'm not a Shapiro fan. I believe the anecdote

1662
01:28:03,640 --> 01:28:05,559
Speaker 2: that he was. There was some reporting to this effect

1663
01:28:05,560 --> 01:28:10,920
Speaker 2: at the time that he was very entitled and more

1664
01:28:11,160 --> 01:28:14,639
Speaker 2: like asking Kamala, like asserting what he wanted the role

1665
01:28:14,680 --> 01:28:18,040
Speaker 2: to be and assuming he had the job before even

1666
01:28:18,200 --> 01:28:19,960
Speaker 2: you know, going through the auditions, and there was a

1667
01:28:19,960 --> 01:28:22,439
Speaker 2: bit of a like personality clash between them, and that's

1668
01:28:22,439 --> 01:28:24,960
Speaker 2: why she ultimately goes with Tim Walls like. I think

1669
01:28:24,960 --> 01:28:28,040
Speaker 2: that that is probably accurate based on my vibes of

1670
01:28:28,439 --> 01:28:31,519
Speaker 2: Josh Shapiro. And you know, I am incredibly biased against

1671
01:28:31,520 --> 01:28:34,439
Speaker 2: anyone who does the fake Obama impression when they're giving

1672
01:28:34,439 --> 01:28:38,120
Speaker 2: public speeches, of which she is certainly guilty. But just

1673
01:28:38,160 --> 01:28:40,120
Speaker 2: to wrap it all up in this Kamala book thing,

1674
01:28:40,160 --> 01:28:41,720
Speaker 2: you know, one of the things that she keeps going

1675
01:28:41,720 --> 01:28:43,400
Speaker 2: back to and again, having not read the book, but

1676
01:28:43,479 --> 01:28:45,800
Speaker 2: judging by the title and the excerpts that I've seen

1677
01:28:45,920 --> 01:28:48,120
Speaker 2: and analysis that I've seen, and Kamala herself and how

1678
01:28:48,120 --> 01:28:52,759
Speaker 2: she's representing it, her big overarching excuse is just like, look, y'all,

1679
01:28:52,800 --> 01:28:54,519
Speaker 2: we just didn't have that much time. We didn't have

1680
01:28:54,600 --> 01:28:57,000
Speaker 2: enough time. If we'd had more time, I could have

1681
01:28:57,040 --> 01:28:58,760
Speaker 2: made the case better. I could have done this. I

1682
01:28:58,760 --> 01:29:01,360
Speaker 2: could have done that. It would have I've somehow magically

1683
01:29:01,640 --> 01:29:05,519
Speaker 2: made the situation better. It's unknowable, but based on what

1684
01:29:05,600 --> 01:29:10,040
Speaker 2: we actually saw and experienced, she was doing better earlier

1685
01:29:10,080 --> 01:29:13,519
Speaker 2: in the campaign when there was just excitement about someone different,

1686
01:29:13,760 --> 01:29:15,879
Speaker 2: when she was leaning more into some of the populist

1687
01:29:15,920 --> 01:29:18,599
Speaker 2: elements like the price gouging, when they were letting Tim

1688
01:29:18,640 --> 01:29:21,760
Speaker 2: Walls be more like do his weird critique, which seemed

1689
01:29:21,800 --> 01:29:23,960
Speaker 2: to land better than the more grandiose like he's a

1690
01:29:24,000 --> 01:29:26,680
Speaker 2: fascist critiquem though he is a fascist. But the you know,

1691
01:29:26,720 --> 01:29:28,760
Speaker 2: the like these guys are weirdos and they're freaks, and

1692
01:29:28,880 --> 01:29:32,559
Speaker 2: like fringe characters actually seem to land better with the public.

1693
01:29:33,080 --> 01:29:37,960
Speaker 2: So I don't see any evidence that more time would

1694
01:29:38,000 --> 01:29:41,400
Speaker 2: have benefited Kamala Harris. If anything, what we've seen from

1695
01:29:41,439 --> 01:29:44,240
Speaker 2: Kama Harris's political career is actually the more that people

1696
01:29:44,320 --> 01:29:46,960
Speaker 2: have a chance to sit with the reality of her

1697
01:29:47,080 --> 01:29:49,599
Speaker 2: versus the idea of her or the resume of her,

1698
01:29:50,040 --> 01:29:52,519
Speaker 2: the more they're like, not sure that this is the

1699
01:29:52,560 --> 01:29:55,280
Speaker 2: direction that they want to go in that they want

1700
01:29:55,320 --> 01:29:58,960
Speaker 2: to go in politically. So I from that perspective, it

1701
01:29:59,000 --> 01:30:02,320
Speaker 2: seems to me that the central premise and framing of

1702
01:30:02,360 --> 01:30:04,759
Speaker 2: the book, that it was too short a time period

1703
01:30:04,760 --> 01:30:07,800
Speaker 2: to succeed, is false or at least unsupported.

1704
01:30:07,960 --> 01:30:11,040
Speaker 3: This is incontrovertible based on the polling data. If you

1705
01:30:11,200 --> 01:30:14,519
Speaker 3: believe it, this is incontrovertible. Kamala Harris enters the twenty

1706
01:30:14,520 --> 01:30:18,080
Speaker 3: twenty primary with a lot of money and very splashy

1707
01:30:18,280 --> 01:30:22,360
Speaker 3: media coverage and declines to the point where she can't

1708
01:30:22,520 --> 01:30:24,920
Speaker 3: make it to the Iowa CAUCUSUS drops out literally before

1709
01:30:24,960 --> 01:30:28,840
Speaker 3: twenty twenty in December of twenty nineteen, because the more

1710
01:30:28,880 --> 01:30:31,439
Speaker 3: people see of Kamala Harris. The less people are interested

1711
01:30:31,479 --> 01:30:35,040
Speaker 3: in actually voting for Kamala Harris. She becomes vice president

1712
01:30:35,200 --> 01:30:40,840
Speaker 3: and has a very steadily historically negative favorability rating. You

1713
01:30:40,880 --> 01:30:43,960
Speaker 3: could go ahead and look at Real Clear Politics's average

1714
01:30:43,960 --> 01:30:47,320
Speaker 3: of her when she hits the campaign trail after taking

1715
01:30:47,360 --> 01:30:50,639
Speaker 3: the torch from Biden. Is she does get a very

1716
01:30:50,680 --> 01:30:54,840
Speaker 3: real honeymoon period where her popularity reverses again, and then

1717
01:30:55,320 --> 01:30:59,440
Speaker 3: around late September October it just crashes.

1718
01:31:00,040 --> 01:31:02,479
Speaker 4: Has been going in the opposite direction ever since.

1719
01:31:02,640 --> 01:31:06,040
Speaker 3: So what Crystal just said is completely supported by the

1720
01:31:06,120 --> 01:31:08,639
Speaker 3: data when it comes to Kamala Harris, which should throw

1721
01:31:08,760 --> 01:31:12,120
Speaker 3: a real wrench into whatever political future she thinks she has.

1722
01:31:12,120 --> 01:31:13,800
Speaker 3: She might have been butted off as a long term

1723
01:31:13,840 --> 01:31:16,600
Speaker 3: California senator. Speaking of California, though, let's wrap up the

1724
01:31:16,640 --> 01:31:23,719
Speaker 3: segment with c Sevenvin Newsom. This is apparently Kamala Harris

1725
01:31:23,720 --> 01:31:26,479
Speaker 3: wrote that she called Gavin Newsom for an endorsement after

1726
01:31:26,479 --> 01:31:28,200
Speaker 3: Biden's exit, but he brushed her off of the short

1727
01:31:28,200 --> 01:31:31,439
Speaker 3: text that read quote hiking will call back, and that

1728
01:31:31,600 --> 01:31:36,200
Speaker 3: was it never heard anything else from Gavin Newsom, which

1729
01:31:36,240 --> 01:31:40,040
Speaker 3: is Crystal, hiking will call back. That is how I

1730
01:31:40,120 --> 01:31:42,640
Speaker 3: plan to respond when you guys asked me to do

1731
01:31:42,680 --> 01:31:44,240
Speaker 3: something that I don't want to do in the future,

1732
01:31:44,360 --> 01:31:47,080
Speaker 3: hiking will call back fill.

1733
01:31:46,920 --> 01:31:49,120
Speaker 5: In for me. Oh sorry, hiking, get back to you.

1734
01:31:49,400 --> 01:31:49,719
Speaker 4: Hiking.

1735
01:31:49,840 --> 01:31:52,439
Speaker 3: Well, it's like the Mark Sanford excuse he was hiking

1736
01:31:52,439 --> 01:31:53,479
Speaker 3: the Appalachian Trails.

1737
01:31:54,520 --> 01:31:59,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Well, I mean, I'm sure someone who's steeped

1738
01:31:59,360 --> 01:32:02,400
Speaker 2: in California politics can tell us more about the Gavin

1739
01:32:02,760 --> 01:32:06,519
Speaker 2: Kamala likely like rivalry. They probably like low key hate

1740
01:32:06,520 --> 01:32:08,760
Speaker 2: each other more than they even hate Republicans or whatever,

1741
01:32:08,800 --> 01:32:11,920
Speaker 2: if I had to guess. And so Gavin also is

1742
01:32:11,960 --> 01:32:14,240
Speaker 2: a finger in the wind kind of a guy. So

1743
01:32:14,479 --> 01:32:16,120
Speaker 2: if it was you know, at that moment it was

1744
01:32:16,240 --> 01:32:20,000
Speaker 2: unclear what was going to happen, you had probably maybe

1745
01:32:20,040 --> 01:32:22,559
Speaker 2: Pelosi in his ear who wanted to have a different

1746
01:32:22,600 --> 01:32:24,800
Speaker 2: process play out and actually have some sort of a

1747
01:32:25,040 --> 01:32:28,679
Speaker 2: you know, like short primary or DNC convention floor fight

1748
01:32:28,800 --> 01:32:33,000
Speaker 2: or something else play out, And so he just decided, like,

1749
01:32:33,040 --> 01:32:36,200
Speaker 2: I'm gonna absent myself from this because there's no place

1750
01:32:36,240 --> 01:32:40,120
Speaker 2: that I deemed to be politically safe yes to land here.

1751
01:32:40,240 --> 01:32:42,720
Speaker 3: Ultimately, it's like Taylor Swift, like, I'd very much like

1752
01:32:42,760 --> 01:32:46,640
Speaker 3: to be excluded from this narrative. We're ready long in

1753
01:32:46,680 --> 01:32:49,720
Speaker 3: today's show, so make sure you subscribe over at Breakingpoints

1754
01:32:49,800 --> 01:32:51,920
Speaker 3: dot com and watch the Friday show. We're going to

1755
01:32:51,920 --> 01:32:55,040
Speaker 3: talk about AOC and more on Gavin Newsom. Actually a

1756
01:32:55,120 --> 01:32:58,000
Speaker 3: potential team up in the works with AOC and Cavin

1757
01:32:58,080 --> 01:33:01,000
Speaker 3: Newsom and numbers looking really great if she wanted to

1758
01:33:01,040 --> 01:33:04,120
Speaker 3: make her own presidential run in twenty twenty eight, So

1759
01:33:04,120 --> 01:33:06,639
Speaker 3: we're gonna do that in the Friday show. Make sure

1760
01:33:06,640 --> 01:33:08,439
Speaker 3: to tune in then and you can get the full

1761
01:33:08,520 --> 01:33:11,719
Speaker 3: version of it over at Breakingpoints dot com. Let's go ahead,

1762
01:33:11,800 --> 01:33:15,400
Speaker 3: Crystal and move on to Argentina and bring in our guests.

1763
01:33:15,479 --> 01:33:20,759
Speaker 3: Wan Da vid Rojas, it looks like the United States

1764
01:33:20,840 --> 01:33:25,120
Speaker 3: is going to bail out Javier Milae and the Argentinian

1765
01:33:25,280 --> 01:33:29,519
Speaker 3: economy amid a slump in their market. So wan Da

1766
01:33:29,600 --> 01:33:33,040
Speaker 3: vid Rojas, writer at Compact, who has a new story

1767
01:33:33,040 --> 01:33:34,439
Speaker 3: on us, a great news story on this with the

1768
01:33:34,479 --> 01:33:39,080
Speaker 3: headline Trouble and Libertarian Paradise over at comput over at Compact,

1769
01:33:39,160 --> 01:33:41,240
Speaker 3: joins us now one, thanks for being.

1770
01:33:41,120 --> 01:33:42,960
Speaker 17: Here, Thanks for having me on guys.

1771
01:33:43,200 --> 01:33:44,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, so there's a little bit of news actually on

1772
01:33:45,000 --> 01:33:49,040
Speaker 3: this front. Just before we were recording with you one.

1773
01:33:49,160 --> 01:33:52,559
Speaker 3: This morning we heard more from Scott Bessett about what

1774
01:33:52,640 --> 01:33:54,760
Speaker 3: this potential bailout. We can put the first hair sheet

1775
01:33:54,800 --> 01:33:58,160
Speaker 3: up on the screen that's been publicly in the works

1776
01:33:58,240 --> 01:34:01,160
Speaker 3: that we've been brought in on over the last couple

1777
01:34:01,160 --> 01:34:04,280
Speaker 3: of days, is going to what that's actually going to

1778
01:34:04,320 --> 01:34:07,080
Speaker 3: look like. This is a great financial times rundown of

1779
01:34:07,120 --> 01:34:09,240
Speaker 3: what actually happened. It starts by saying, quote, less than

1780
01:34:09,280 --> 01:34:11,439
Speaker 3: six months ago, US Treasury Secretary Scott best was in

1781
01:34:11,439 --> 01:34:16,080
Speaker 3: Buenos Aires congratulating President Javier Mila for bringing America Argentina

1782
01:34:16,120 --> 01:34:18,519
Speaker 3: back from the precipice, as the libertarian secured more than

1783
01:34:18,520 --> 01:34:21,200
Speaker 3: forty billion dollars and loans from the IMF and multilateral

1784
01:34:21,280 --> 01:34:24,559
Speaker 3: lenders to bolster his government. Now, with political and economic

1785
01:34:24,640 --> 01:34:28,040
Speaker 3: missteps sparking panic in Argentina's markets, the South American nation

1786
01:34:28,120 --> 01:34:29,960
Speaker 3: is once again on the brink, and the Trump administration

1787
01:34:30,040 --> 01:34:33,840
Speaker 3: is preparing to bail out its ideological ally. So one

1788
01:34:33,960 --> 01:34:36,120
Speaker 3: tell us what we learned this morning from Scott Bessett

1789
01:34:36,120 --> 01:34:37,960
Speaker 3: about what that bailout is going to look like.

1790
01:34:39,280 --> 01:34:43,160
Speaker 17: Yeah, Bestin announced this morning that the Treasury is going

1791
01:34:43,200 --> 01:34:46,920
Speaker 17: to provide a twenty billion dollar swap line to Argentina's

1792
01:34:46,960 --> 01:34:51,240
Speaker 17: central bank. Basically, Argentina central bank will get a loan

1793
01:34:51,600 --> 01:34:54,479
Speaker 17: in dollars that they will have to pay back to

1794
01:34:56,720 --> 01:35:00,639
Speaker 17: the United States, which is extremely important because last week

1795
01:35:00,760 --> 01:35:03,840
Speaker 17: they spent over a billion of the twenty billion they

1796
01:35:03,840 --> 01:35:07,360
Speaker 17: have left in their foreign reserves defending the paeso because

1797
01:35:07,360 --> 01:35:10,120
Speaker 17: it lost like a third of its value in the

1798
01:35:10,160 --> 01:35:10,679
Speaker 17: past month.

1799
01:35:11,720 --> 01:35:14,360
Speaker 2: So let's actually back up on that note and explain

1800
01:35:14,479 --> 01:35:17,360
Speaker 2: what is the crisis that they're facing right now and

1801
01:35:17,400 --> 01:35:20,920
Speaker 2: what triggered this moment where they're in need potentially of

1802
01:35:21,080 --> 01:35:21,920
Speaker 2: a US bailout.

1803
01:35:23,240 --> 01:35:27,320
Speaker 17: Yeah, so, over the past fifty years, really the one

1804
01:35:27,360 --> 01:35:30,960
Speaker 17: constant of all of Argentina's economic problems is the dollar.

1805
01:35:31,479 --> 01:35:34,760
Speaker 17: For our purposes, specifically, the fact that the peso, Argentina's

1806
01:35:34,800 --> 01:35:37,240
Speaker 17: currency is pegged to the dollar. What that means is

1807
01:35:37,280 --> 01:35:39,960
Speaker 17: that the government sets a margin within which the paco

1808
01:35:40,040 --> 01:35:42,400
Speaker 17: will float relative to the dollar around like one thousand

1809
01:35:42,840 --> 01:35:46,200
Speaker 17: something paysos too for every dollar, And the problem with

1810
01:35:46,240 --> 01:35:49,799
Speaker 17: this is that you become completely beholden to the whims

1811
01:35:49,840 --> 01:35:52,559
Speaker 17: of investors that can be extremely fickle, and also the

1812
01:35:52,640 --> 01:35:55,519
Speaker 17: amount of dollars that your central bank has in its

1813
01:35:55,560 --> 01:35:58,719
Speaker 17: foreign reserves. Because that's how you maintain that conversion between

1814
01:35:59,200 --> 01:36:01,519
Speaker 17: those two currents. And if there's some kind of panic

1815
01:36:01,560 --> 01:36:04,320
Speaker 17: like what just happened, you need to spend all of

1816
01:36:04,320 --> 01:36:07,320
Speaker 17: your foreign reserves in order to keep that value of

1817
01:36:07,360 --> 01:36:12,000
Speaker 17: your of the paso. And so Miday, when he came in, said, okay,

1818
01:36:12,040 --> 01:36:15,519
Speaker 17: I'm gonna fix this. I'm gonna through libertarianism, I'm gonna

1819
01:36:15,520 --> 01:36:18,320
Speaker 17: get government out of the way. I'm gonna get rid

1820
01:36:18,360 --> 01:36:20,680
Speaker 17: of this peg, and everything is gonna be great. So

1821
01:36:20,720 --> 01:36:24,680
Speaker 17: he took off this in December of twenty twenty three, uh,

1822
01:36:24,840 --> 01:36:27,680
Speaker 17: and did exactly that. He'd massively devalue the paeso. It

1823
01:36:27,720 --> 01:36:30,360
Speaker 17: lost like fifty percent of its value overnight, and this

1824
01:36:30,439 --> 01:36:33,400
Speaker 17: caused inflation to skyrocket, went from like one hundred and

1825
01:36:33,400 --> 01:36:37,120
Speaker 17: fifty percent till like three hundred percent. And this makes

1826
01:36:37,120 --> 01:36:39,920
Speaker 17: perfect sense because if your currency loses a ton of

1827
01:36:39,920 --> 01:36:43,479
Speaker 17: it it's it's buying power overnight, well, then prices are

1828
01:36:43,520 --> 01:36:46,400
Speaker 17: gonna shoot up. And so he said, whoops, Okay, what

1829
01:36:46,439 --> 01:36:50,200
Speaker 17: do I do now? People elected me to control inflation. Okay,

1830
01:36:50,280 --> 01:36:52,760
Speaker 17: So he did exactly what his predecessor, we're doing. He

1831
01:36:52,880 --> 01:36:56,280
Speaker 17: restored the peg to the peso, and this worked. The

1832
01:36:56,320 --> 01:36:58,280
Speaker 17: pas over the course of the next few months, in

1833
01:36:58,320 --> 01:37:02,880
Speaker 17: twenty twenty four, recovered and even exceeded its previous peak.

1834
01:37:03,240 --> 01:37:06,599
Speaker 17: See the problem with the the you know, pegging your

1835
01:37:06,560 --> 01:37:08,600
Speaker 17: currency of the dollar in the case of Argenta, a

1836
01:37:08,640 --> 01:37:12,360
Speaker 17: country like Argentina where your currency has zero credibility, is

1837
01:37:12,400 --> 01:37:16,759
Speaker 17: that it's just extremely overvalued relative to its actual worth

1838
01:37:16,760 --> 01:37:22,799
Speaker 17: and the broader value of your economy. So anyway, you know, Melay,

1839
01:37:23,040 --> 01:37:25,599
Speaker 17: inflation started to go down, and Mela says, oh, see,

1840
01:37:25,680 --> 01:37:28,840
Speaker 17: this is because libertarianism works. We can talk about that.

1841
01:37:28,880 --> 01:37:31,800
Speaker 17: There's some details in whether or not some of what

1842
01:37:31,800 --> 01:37:35,760
Speaker 17: he's done austerity wise, it could be would have been

1843
01:37:35,800 --> 01:37:39,840
Speaker 17: worth it in the long run. But anyway, inflation by

1844
01:37:39,880 --> 01:37:42,800
Speaker 17: the end of twenty twenty four fell from yeah, like

1845
01:37:42,840 --> 01:37:47,000
Speaker 17: three hundred percent to around thirty percent. Then in twenty

1846
01:37:47,040 --> 01:37:49,600
Speaker 17: twenty five he started to have a couple of setbacks.

1847
01:37:50,280 --> 01:37:52,960
Speaker 17: There was this big corruption scandal with his sister who's

1848
01:37:53,000 --> 01:37:56,080
Speaker 17: also his chief of staff. There were recordings suggesting that

1849
01:37:56,160 --> 01:38:01,280
Speaker 17: she was taking bribes. The Congress passed spending increases that

1850
01:38:01,320 --> 01:38:04,360
Speaker 17: he vetoed, and then Congress overrode his veto. And then

1851
01:38:04,400 --> 01:38:06,320
Speaker 17: what really set things off was that a week ago

1852
01:38:06,880 --> 01:38:11,240
Speaker 17: Buenos Aires, the country's most important province, held provincial elections

1853
01:38:11,240 --> 01:38:14,679
Speaker 17: where Malay's party got destroyed, lost by like thirteen points

1854
01:38:14,680 --> 01:38:17,799
Speaker 17: something like that. And this really caused investors of panic

1855
01:38:18,080 --> 01:38:20,920
Speaker 17: because they saw it as a sign that the opposition

1856
01:38:21,000 --> 01:38:23,280
Speaker 17: parentists that are left wing were going to take control

1857
01:38:23,320 --> 01:38:26,200
Speaker 17: of the Congress next month in midterm elections. And so

1858
01:38:26,560 --> 01:38:30,639
Speaker 17: this caused, in Malay's words, a full market panic and

1859
01:38:30,760 --> 01:38:33,040
Speaker 17: the pay so yeah, like I said, lost like a

1860
01:38:33,080 --> 01:38:36,439
Speaker 17: third of its value. The Central Bank spent a billion

1861
01:38:36,439 --> 01:38:41,320
Speaker 17: dollars in just three days and it only has it

1862
01:38:41,320 --> 01:38:44,320
Speaker 17: purportedly only has twenty billion dollars left in reserve, which

1863
01:38:44,360 --> 01:38:47,960
Speaker 17: is really the exact amount that the IMF gave Argentina

1864
01:38:48,120 --> 01:38:52,479
Speaker 17: in January. Argentina is the single largest recipient of IMF

1865
01:38:52,520 --> 01:38:55,479
Speaker 17: loans in history. I saw something that in the past

1866
01:38:55,479 --> 01:38:59,440
Speaker 17: thirty years, of the two hundred billion dollars that Argentina

1867
01:39:00,040 --> 01:39:02,479
Speaker 17: at the IMF has given out, Argentina has gotten a

1868
01:39:02,520 --> 01:39:04,400
Speaker 17: third of that. So it's really crazy.

1869
01:39:05,160 --> 01:39:07,400
Speaker 3: Wow, let's take a listen. I want to get your

1870
01:39:07,400 --> 01:39:10,920
Speaker 3: reaction to this. Actually one to what Donald Trump said

1871
01:39:11,000 --> 01:39:13,160
Speaker 3: about Melay while he was in New York for the

1872
01:39:13,320 --> 01:39:15,599
Speaker 3: nation's General Assembly and to.

1873
01:39:15,760 --> 01:39:17,680
Speaker 18: The people of Argentina.

1874
01:39:17,880 --> 01:39:19,479
Speaker 6: We're back at him one hundred percent.

1875
01:39:19,560 --> 01:39:22,599
Speaker 18: We think he's done a fantastic job. He, like us,

1876
01:39:22,680 --> 01:39:26,320
Speaker 18: inherited a mess and what he's done to fix it

1877
01:39:26,439 --> 01:39:29,400
Speaker 18: is good. And Scott is working with their country so

1878
01:39:29,520 --> 01:39:31,640
Speaker 18: that they can get good dead and all of the

1879
01:39:31,680 --> 01:39:34,760
Speaker 18: things that you need to make Argentina grant again. So

1880
01:39:34,800 --> 01:39:38,120
Speaker 18: it's an honor for me to endorse and the president

1881
01:39:38,160 --> 01:39:42,000
Speaker 18: and the future president of Argentina. Thank you, thank you

1882
01:39:42,120 --> 01:39:43,479
Speaker 18: very much, thank you very much.

1883
01:39:43,479 --> 01:39:47,559
Speaker 3: As you so, he's sitting astride Mela there alongside Scott

1884
01:39:47,640 --> 01:39:51,679
Speaker 3: Lessons and Marco Rubio. Now, one an interesting question, based

1885
01:39:51,720 --> 01:39:55,040
Speaker 3: on everything you've just said, is to what extent the

1886
01:39:55,360 --> 01:39:58,920
Speaker 3: uncertainty that Melee has faced in twenty twenty five is

1887
01:39:59,040 --> 01:40:02,280
Speaker 3: downstream of some of the uncertainty that Donald Trump has

1888
01:40:02,320 --> 01:40:06,880
Speaker 3: injected into the global economy from his economic policies. Is

1889
01:40:06,920 --> 01:40:11,519
Speaker 3: there a kind of circular way that Trump is bailing

1890
01:40:11,560 --> 01:40:15,080
Speaker 3: out Melee from a situation that that he in some

1891
01:40:15,120 --> 01:40:19,320
Speaker 3: sense stoked in the Argentinian economy? Am I sounding crazy?

1892
01:40:20,040 --> 01:40:22,600
Speaker 3: Is there a connection there at all?

1893
01:40:22,800 --> 01:40:24,600
Speaker 17: You know what, I hadn't thought about that. It's a

1894
01:40:24,640 --> 01:40:28,120
Speaker 17: good question. I guess, yeah, maybe a dollar a bit

1895
01:40:28,160 --> 01:40:32,000
Speaker 17: more skittish that they than they would be otherwise, but

1896
01:40:32,360 --> 01:40:34,599
Speaker 17: I would say that generally that's not the case. There

1897
01:40:34,680 --> 01:40:38,639
Speaker 17: is one thing that did uh like when in MINEI

1898
01:40:38,760 --> 01:40:41,320
Speaker 17: took power in twenty twenty three. One thing is that

1899
01:40:41,320 --> 01:40:44,760
Speaker 17: that's when the Fed raised interest rates and Argentina has

1900
01:40:45,040 --> 01:40:48,639
Speaker 17: unfortunately way too much of its debt in dollars. Again,

1901
01:40:48,680 --> 01:40:52,160
Speaker 17: there's is this circular problem with the dollar, uh, And

1902
01:40:52,240 --> 01:40:56,040
Speaker 17: so when interest rates go up, well, interest payments on

1903
01:40:56,080 --> 01:40:58,320
Speaker 17: your debt also go up, and that caused Argentina's debt

1904
01:40:58,360 --> 01:41:02,040
Speaker 17: to skyrocket. So and that, honestly, I would say, is

1905
01:41:02,320 --> 01:41:04,000
Speaker 17: a big part of what got me lay elected.

1906
01:41:05,080 --> 01:41:08,760
Speaker 2: Interesting, could you tell me a little bit more. First

1907
01:41:08,760 --> 01:41:11,320
Speaker 2: of all, I wanted to opine on how the support

1908
01:41:11,360 --> 01:41:17,080
Speaker 2: of Malay just reveals how content free trump Ism is,

1909
01:41:17,360 --> 01:41:20,960
Speaker 2: because it's not like, allegedly they are not ideologically the same,

1910
01:41:21,360 --> 01:41:23,720
Speaker 2: but since Malay will be a good little boy and

1911
01:41:23,720 --> 01:41:25,719
Speaker 2: do whatever the US wants him to, then he gets,

1912
01:41:25,840 --> 01:41:28,760
Speaker 2: you know, favorite status regardless of his because I think

1913
01:41:28,760 --> 01:41:31,360
Speaker 2: there's a lazy assumption that they're sort of like closely

1914
01:41:31,439 --> 01:41:34,280
Speaker 2: ideologically aligned and on some levels, yes, but I'm sure

1915
01:41:34,280 --> 01:41:36,120
Speaker 2: you could lay out even better than I could, like

1916
01:41:36,640 --> 01:41:38,719
Speaker 2: on a lot of levels. No, but I was also

1917
01:41:38,760 --> 01:41:42,800
Speaker 2: curious what did happen in that Buenos Aire's election. Was

1918
01:41:42,840 --> 01:41:46,400
Speaker 2: it surprising that his party suffered such a defeat, What

1919
01:41:46,439 --> 01:41:48,960
Speaker 2: are people reading into, like the message that is being

1920
01:41:49,080 --> 01:41:53,200
Speaker 2: sent by voters, and what are they unhappy with? You

1921
01:41:53,240 --> 01:41:58,040
Speaker 2: know under Malay? Sorry, remind me that the first part

1922
01:41:58,040 --> 01:42:00,479
Speaker 2: of the question just that you can way in on

1923
01:42:00,520 --> 01:42:02,360
Speaker 2: the second part. The first part was how Trump and

1924
01:42:02,560 --> 01:42:07,360
Speaker 2: lay are not the second part is just about the

1925
01:42:07,400 --> 01:42:08,519
Speaker 2: Buenos Aires elections.

1926
01:42:08,600 --> 01:42:12,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, right, right right? So yeah, I mean.

1927
01:42:13,560 --> 01:42:16,840
Speaker 17: Trump really, what Trump is is like a Gilded Age

1928
01:42:17,200 --> 01:42:21,920
Speaker 17: Republican kind of like it's protectionism abroad and free marketeerism

1929
01:42:21,960 --> 01:42:26,080
Speaker 17: at home. Uh and Malay is just the free marketeerism everywhere.

1930
01:42:26,320 --> 01:42:28,479
Speaker 17: So Trump is a huge protectionist, you know the tariffs

1931
01:42:28,479 --> 01:42:30,559
Speaker 17: hall that Melea hates tariffs. So in that way, they're

1932
01:42:30,560 --> 01:42:33,840
Speaker 17: extremely different. But uh yeah, as far as like Doge

1933
01:42:33,880 --> 01:42:36,439
Speaker 17: and you know, the deregulation all of that, uh yeah,

1934
01:42:36,479 --> 01:42:42,080
Speaker 17: they're pretty simpatico. And uh really I actually do see

1935
01:42:42,120 --> 01:42:44,120
Speaker 17: a lot of this. Well, you know, on the one hand,

1936
01:42:44,160 --> 01:42:46,920
Speaker 17: Trump he really just loves anyone who says good things

1937
01:42:46,920 --> 01:42:50,439
Speaker 17: about him. But on the other hand, geopolitically, and it's

1938
01:42:50,439 --> 01:42:54,840
Speaker 17: not really that Argentina like actually offers any like I call.

1939
01:42:54,800 --> 01:42:55,960
Speaker 4: It moral support.

1940
01:42:56,479 --> 01:43:01,559
Speaker 17: Uh, Milay really has prostly prostrated himself before, like Washington,

1941
01:43:01,600 --> 01:43:05,320
Speaker 17: and he supports all of our foreign wars Ukraine, Israel,

1942
01:43:05,439 --> 01:43:08,559
Speaker 17: and also what we're doing now in Venezuela, and you know,

1943
01:43:08,600 --> 01:43:11,920
Speaker 17: the sanctions regime against Cuba, Nicaraguay.

1944
01:43:11,720 --> 01:43:12,200
Speaker 10: Et cetera.

1945
01:43:13,200 --> 01:43:17,280
Speaker 17: As far as that election in Buenos Aireas to be fair,

1946
01:43:17,400 --> 01:43:22,200
Speaker 17: Buenos Aidas is a bastion of Paranism, the opposition, and

1947
01:43:22,240 --> 01:43:24,840
Speaker 17: so he was expected to lose there, but not by

1948
01:43:25,320 --> 01:43:28,080
Speaker 17: as much as he did, lost by like thirteen points,

1949
01:43:28,200 --> 01:43:31,479
Speaker 17: and the polls showed him as being more competitive, and

1950
01:43:31,520 --> 01:43:34,200
Speaker 17: now he started to slide in these midterm elections. His

1951
01:43:34,240 --> 01:43:37,519
Speaker 17: party has a minority in both chambers of Congress, though

1952
01:43:37,560 --> 01:43:40,120
Speaker 17: there's like a couple of other parties that are kind

1953
01:43:40,120 --> 01:43:43,880
Speaker 17: of allied with him. But the yeah, the fear, like

1954
01:43:43,920 --> 01:43:47,000
Speaker 17: I said now, is that the Parentists will be able

1955
01:43:47,040 --> 01:43:48,920
Speaker 17: to take back control. As far as what the broader

1956
01:43:48,960 --> 01:43:54,479
Speaker 17: population thinks, all things considered, Milai's approval writing is still

1957
01:43:54,520 --> 01:43:56,800
Speaker 17: pretty good, though his disapproval has gone up a lot.

1958
01:43:57,560 --> 01:44:01,120
Speaker 17: And the thing is the austerity, his austerity region has

1959
01:44:01,160 --> 01:44:04,439
Speaker 17: caused this horrible economic depression in the country. Is something

1960
01:44:04,479 --> 01:44:08,040
Speaker 17: like forty percent of the country is living in poverty.

1961
01:44:08,640 --> 01:44:11,240
Speaker 17: On the other hand, you can make the case that

1962
01:44:11,520 --> 01:44:14,080
Speaker 17: he has managed to bring down some of Argentina's debt,

1963
01:44:14,120 --> 01:44:16,360
Speaker 17: which is really out of control before he took office.

1964
01:44:16,680 --> 01:44:21,360
Speaker 17: So I'm not sympathetic to Meley or libertarianism, but you know,

1965
01:44:21,360 --> 01:44:24,880
Speaker 17: I'm trying to give you the other side. But you know,

1966
01:44:24,960 --> 01:44:27,960
Speaker 17: people are just kind of saying it's like, okay, inflation

1967
01:44:28,120 --> 01:44:29,760
Speaker 17: is going to come down some although you know, it's

1968
01:44:29,800 --> 01:44:33,400
Speaker 17: misleading how the financial press reports this because they've like

1969
01:44:33,960 --> 01:44:36,880
Speaker 17: to cite the monthly figure of inflation that's gone down

1970
01:44:36,920 --> 01:44:39,479
Speaker 17: to like two percent, is stagnated at two percent for

1971
01:44:39,520 --> 01:44:42,040
Speaker 17: a while now. And the thing is, for instance, here

1972
01:44:42,080 --> 01:44:44,040
Speaker 17: in the US, when we talk about monthly inflation, we're

1973
01:44:44,040 --> 01:44:47,559
Speaker 17: still talking about monthly inflation with respect to the annual figure.

1974
01:44:48,320 --> 01:44:50,960
Speaker 17: So if you look at annual inflation in Argentina, it's

1975
01:44:50,960 --> 01:44:53,000
Speaker 17: still at like thirty percent, which is what it was

1976
01:44:53,080 --> 01:44:55,560
Speaker 17: in like twenty twenty one under the previous government, and

1977
01:44:55,600 --> 01:44:58,280
Speaker 17: it's still pretty bad. So people want to see results.

1978
01:44:58,400 --> 01:44:59,960
Speaker 17: They still kind of give him the benefit of the

1979
01:45:00,120 --> 01:45:02,559
Speaker 17: doubt because they were promised like a V shaped recovery,

1980
01:45:02,600 --> 01:45:05,880
Speaker 17: that things would get worse and then get better. And

1981
01:45:05,920 --> 01:45:09,240
Speaker 17: the opposition. There's kind of a similar situation here with

1982
01:45:09,320 --> 01:45:12,080
Speaker 17: the Democrats their soul searching. There's like different wings that

1983
01:45:12,120 --> 01:45:14,000
Speaker 17: are like fighting each other, and we could talk about that.

1984
01:45:14,040 --> 01:45:14,599
Speaker 17: It's interesting.

1985
01:45:15,120 --> 01:45:17,120
Speaker 3: Well, the last question for me, actually it is just

1986
01:45:17,360 --> 01:45:20,120
Speaker 3: what might this do to the situation in Argentina? Sort

1987
01:45:20,160 --> 01:45:22,160
Speaker 3: of like the obvious question on the table is how

1988
01:45:22,160 --> 01:45:25,200
Speaker 3: does a US bailout? It's sort of funny to talk

1989
01:45:25,200 --> 01:45:29,000
Speaker 3: about a libertarian experiment being bailed out by the United States.

1990
01:45:29,080 --> 01:45:31,519
Speaker 3: I mean, it's it's obviously not funny.

1991
01:45:31,520 --> 01:45:33,800
Speaker 5: And the IMF yeah, and the IMI yes, I was

1992
01:45:33,800 --> 01:45:34,439
Speaker 5: thinking that too.

1993
01:45:35,040 --> 01:45:36,160
Speaker 4: It's just amusing.

1994
01:45:36,320 --> 01:45:40,400
Speaker 3: But what could what can we see in the months

1995
01:45:40,400 --> 01:45:44,440
Speaker 3: to come with this this bailout, as it will influence

1996
01:45:44,880 --> 01:45:46,720
Speaker 3: the Argentinian economy.

1997
01:45:47,439 --> 01:45:50,040
Speaker 17: So it seems that it'll keep them aflow. Markets have

1998
01:45:50,160 --> 01:45:53,880
Speaker 17: rallied and yeah, those dollars really will be vital for

1999
01:45:54,080 --> 01:45:57,840
Speaker 17: the central bank and also paying back Argentina's debts. There's

2000
01:45:57,840 --> 01:46:01,080
Speaker 17: a broader conversation like if we go back further, because

2001
01:46:01,120 --> 01:46:04,600
Speaker 17: they first started paying the dollar to the peso in

2002
01:46:04,640 --> 01:46:09,479
Speaker 17: the nineties, and Argentina just has these recurring crises. If

2003
01:46:09,520 --> 01:46:12,040
Speaker 17: we go back further, the issue is also that they

2004
01:46:12,640 --> 01:46:15,160
Speaker 17: take on too much debt in dollars, and that's a

2005
01:46:15,200 --> 01:46:17,559
Speaker 17: huge problem. If you borrow in your own currency, you

2006
01:46:17,600 --> 01:46:19,320
Speaker 17: can get way more in debt than otherwise.

2007
01:46:19,360 --> 01:46:19,840
Speaker 4: Just look at us.

2008
01:46:19,920 --> 01:46:22,880
Speaker 17: We have this huge national debt, but thankfully it's in

2009
01:46:22,880 --> 01:46:25,479
Speaker 17: our own currency, which also happens to be the world's

2010
01:46:25,479 --> 01:46:28,640
Speaker 17: reserve currency, which means that countries like Argentina need it

2011
01:46:28,680 --> 01:46:32,800
Speaker 17: to stay afloat. But so Argentina, like they get they

2012
01:46:32,920 --> 01:46:37,000
Speaker 17: amass so much debt in dollars, they're just you know,

2013
01:46:37,160 --> 01:46:40,679
Speaker 17: hostage to what the Fed does. If they raise interest rates,

2014
01:46:40,720 --> 01:46:43,639
Speaker 17: their debt explodes. If investors pull their money, they have

2015
01:46:43,840 --> 01:46:46,640
Speaker 17: a currency crisis, and they end up just kind of

2016
01:46:46,720 --> 01:46:49,519
Speaker 17: robbing Peter to pay Paul. They'll get one IMF loan

2017
01:46:49,600 --> 01:46:51,800
Speaker 17: to pay back another IMF loan. They'll get a billion

2018
01:46:51,840 --> 01:46:54,320
Speaker 17: dollars from Qatar to pay back the IMF. They'll get

2019
01:46:54,360 --> 01:46:57,320
Speaker 17: twenty billion from Trump to pay back the IMF. So

2020
01:46:58,200 --> 01:47:02,800
Speaker 17: it's a I mean, yeah, probably we'll eventually see some

2021
01:47:02,800 --> 01:47:05,879
Speaker 17: sort of collapse. But this really was vital, like there

2022
01:47:06,040 --> 01:47:08,960
Speaker 17: was not even that there was a risk the country

2023
01:47:09,040 --> 01:47:13,920
Speaker 17: was gonna spiral into an inflationary chaos again if Trump

2024
01:47:13,960 --> 01:47:14,759
Speaker 17: had an energy.

2025
01:47:15,840 --> 01:47:18,759
Speaker 2: Well, we definitely recommend everyone go and read your piece

2026
01:47:19,400 --> 01:47:22,200
Speaker 2: over at Compact Meg. We'll put the link in the

2027
01:47:22,280 --> 01:47:25,879
Speaker 2: description and as always want great to have your insights.

2028
01:47:25,920 --> 01:47:29,200
Speaker 5: Really useful. Thanks guys, Thank you, Yeah, our pleasure.

2029
01:47:32,120 --> 01:47:35,200
Speaker 3: We're continuing to learn more about what may have gone

2030
01:47:35,240 --> 01:47:39,000
Speaker 3: on behind the scenes with Turning Point USA and Charlie Kirk,

2031
01:47:39,080 --> 01:47:44,599
Speaker 3: in addition to the group's donors or potential donors hopeful

2032
01:47:44,640 --> 01:47:48,760
Speaker 3: donors in the background when it came to Charlie Kirk

2033
01:47:48,800 --> 01:47:51,920
Speaker 3: bringing people like Tucker Carlson and Dave Smith into some

2034
01:47:52,040 --> 01:47:56,040
Speaker 3: events speaking out more publicly about the crackdown on free

2035
01:47:56,080 --> 01:48:00,400
Speaker 3: speech when it came to discussing matters related to is Real.

2036
01:48:00,560 --> 01:48:05,040
Speaker 3: Because one of Charlie's closest friends, Andrew Corvett, executive producer

2037
01:48:05,080 --> 01:48:07,599
Speaker 3: of his show High Up at Churning Point USA, went

2038
01:48:07,680 --> 01:48:13,240
Speaker 3: on Alex Clark's program Culture Apothecary yesterday to go into

2039
01:48:13,439 --> 01:48:18,280
Speaker 3: some of the background information and try to debunk some

2040
01:48:18,320 --> 01:48:22,280
Speaker 3: conspiracy theories tell the truth about what was happening in

2041
01:48:22,320 --> 01:48:26,840
Speaker 3: this conversation with Alex and he did get into what

2042
01:48:26,920 --> 01:48:28,280
Speaker 3: was happening. And I just want to say before we

2043
01:48:28,360 --> 01:48:31,479
Speaker 3: roll the clip. F three, this is the tear sheet

2044
01:48:31,520 --> 01:48:35,320
Speaker 3: from the Gray Zone. This is the Gray Zone story

2045
01:48:35,320 --> 01:48:40,960
Speaker 3: that was trying to say people close to Charlie Kirk

2046
01:48:42,160 --> 01:48:46,960
Speaker 3: were people close to Charlie Kirk heard that a top

2047
01:48:47,080 --> 01:48:50,519
Speaker 3: pro Israel Turning Point USA donor, as the Gray Zone

2048
01:48:50,520 --> 01:48:54,280
Speaker 3: piece puts it, quote, terminated support for the group in

2049
01:48:54,439 --> 01:48:58,080
Speaker 3: the days before his death. So with that in mind,

2050
01:48:58,120 --> 01:49:01,280
Speaker 3: this is a story that came out in recent days.

2051
01:49:01,720 --> 01:49:05,960
Speaker 3: Here's how Colsette addressed questions about potential pressure from donors.

2052
01:49:06,280 --> 01:49:06,639
Speaker 4: F one.

2053
01:49:07,040 --> 01:49:11,960
Speaker 16: Charlie's position on Israel was very clear. I like them

2054
01:49:12,120 --> 01:49:16,680
Speaker 16: more than I like Kamas. I just wish I was

2055
01:49:16,720 --> 01:49:20,719
Speaker 16: free to criticize Israel and not be labeled an anti

2056
01:49:20,720 --> 01:49:23,600
Speaker 16: semi because I can criticize my own government and not

2057
01:49:23,640 --> 01:49:26,320
Speaker 16: be called anti American, right, But why do I have

2058
01:49:26,320 --> 01:49:31,560
Speaker 16: more freedom to do, you know that, and not criticize

2059
01:49:31,920 --> 01:49:34,960
Speaker 16: a foreign government. And he was really upset that there

2060
01:49:35,000 --> 01:49:38,720
Speaker 16: was this sort of clamp down on the freedom of expression,

2061
01:49:38,760 --> 01:49:41,160
Speaker 16: the freedom of ideas, free speech when it came to

2062
01:49:41,360 --> 01:49:43,800
Speaker 16: a foreign government with Tucker for example. Yeah, I mean

2063
01:49:43,800 --> 01:49:47,080
Speaker 16: we took some pushback, We lost some donors. And what's

2064
01:49:47,120 --> 01:49:50,720
Speaker 16: interesting is it wasn't necessarily Jewish donors, although there was.

2065
01:49:51,800 --> 01:49:55,040
Speaker 16: That's a misconception about turning points funding base, by the way,

2066
01:49:55,560 --> 01:49:58,240
Speaker 16: is you know, it's not a whole lot of Jewish donors.

2067
01:49:58,680 --> 01:49:59,240
Speaker 4: It's just not.

2068
01:49:59,600 --> 01:50:01,519
Speaker 16: We never you know, there was always I saw the

2069
01:50:01,520 --> 01:50:04,360
Speaker 16: comments online like oh the Jewish shekels or something like that.

2070
01:50:04,360 --> 01:50:06,599
Speaker 16: I mean, it's all this gross stuff. It just wasn't

2071
01:50:06,680 --> 01:50:10,960
Speaker 16: true and it isn't true. But we did lose, you know,

2072
01:50:11,479 --> 01:50:14,479
Speaker 16: one in particular towards the end that was frustrating. Charlie

2073
01:50:14,600 --> 01:50:16,519
Speaker 16: was a friend of the Jewish people and a friend

2074
01:50:16,560 --> 01:50:20,479
Speaker 16: of Israel. Did he have opinions about the prosecution of

2075
01:50:20,479 --> 01:50:24,960
Speaker 16: the war about He thought their pr was abysmal, thought

2076
01:50:24,960 --> 01:50:26,960
Speaker 16: they were doing more harm than good in many ways

2077
01:50:26,960 --> 01:50:30,920
Speaker 16: for their own cause. So all of those things were true,

2078
01:50:31,040 --> 01:50:33,880
Speaker 16: and he was upset that he couldn't express those things

2079
01:50:33,880 --> 01:50:38,360
Speaker 16: freely without all of this pressure coming down on the organization.

2080
01:50:38,400 --> 01:50:41,280
Speaker 16: But he has a lot of great Jewish friends, and

2081
01:50:42,120 --> 01:50:44,120
Speaker 16: you know, and some people that maybe some not so

2082
01:50:44,160 --> 01:50:47,360
Speaker 16: good ones, right, But I think there's just it's just

2083
01:50:47,400 --> 01:50:48,479
Speaker 16: a nuanced thing.

2084
01:50:49,200 --> 01:50:52,080
Speaker 5: Was Charlie offered one hundred and fifty million dollars from Israel?

2085
01:50:52,120 --> 01:50:53,120
Speaker 16: As far as I know, no.

2086
01:50:53,520 --> 01:50:55,639
Speaker 5: I had never heard anything like that. Everyone I've asked

2087
01:50:55,680 --> 01:50:56,160
Speaker 5: has said the same.

2088
01:50:56,520 --> 01:50:58,519
Speaker 16: And by the way, just for what it's worth, it

2089
01:50:58,520 --> 01:51:00,680
Speaker 16: doesn't matter the amount that we have been coming down.

2090
01:51:00,680 --> 01:51:03,840
Speaker 16: We would have said no because there's evidence turning point

2091
01:51:03,920 --> 01:51:07,639
Speaker 16: does not. Charlie would not accept foreign money exactly. We

2092
01:51:07,720 --> 01:51:11,000
Speaker 16: only took American money. There was money sent to us,

2093
01:51:11,040 --> 01:51:14,000
Speaker 16: like practically in multiple instances. They're trying to cram it

2094
01:51:14,040 --> 01:51:17,000
Speaker 16: down our bank account, and we said no. We canceled

2095
01:51:17,040 --> 01:51:18,920
Speaker 16: like money wires and things on foreign money. I have

2096
01:51:19,400 --> 01:51:22,680
Speaker 16: I remember moments we'd be at like an event, you know,

2097
01:51:23,920 --> 01:51:28,240
Speaker 16: and some foreign people would come up and like demand

2098
01:51:28,240 --> 01:51:30,040
Speaker 16: a meeting or try and get a meeting with Charlie,

2099
01:51:30,080 --> 01:51:32,000
Speaker 16: and Charlie look at me and go deal with them,

2100
01:51:32,080 --> 01:51:32,559
Speaker 16: get rid of.

2101
01:51:32,560 --> 01:51:36,679
Speaker 3: Them, and crystal this Basically, he says in that clip,

2102
01:51:36,720 --> 01:51:40,160
Speaker 3: everyone just heard one in particular, referring to one donor

2103
01:51:40,200 --> 01:51:43,439
Speaker 3: in particular, and the Gray Zone story is about a

2104
01:51:43,479 --> 01:51:48,120
Speaker 3: particular donor. It's about Robert Shillman, who was super supportive

2105
01:51:48,400 --> 01:51:52,120
Speaker 3: of Charlie Kirk for a long time, and I would

2106
01:51:52,160 --> 01:51:56,320
Speaker 3: guess that's who Colvette was alluding to in his conversation

2107
01:51:56,520 --> 01:51:59,360
Speaker 3: with with Alex Clark. At sure, it certainly sounds like it,

2108
01:51:59,400 --> 01:52:04,280
Speaker 3: but whether or not it's showman, it confirmed the thrust

2109
01:52:04,600 --> 01:52:09,320
Speaker 3: of what's been reported in recent days, what people have said,

2110
01:52:09,320 --> 01:52:14,120
Speaker 3: they've heard, just that Kirk was under enormous pressure for

2111
01:52:14,439 --> 01:52:17,880
Speaker 3: as Corvett says, they're speaking out against the public relations

2112
01:52:18,320 --> 01:52:21,280
Speaker 3: that Israel had in the free speech crackdown that Israel had.

2113
01:52:21,720 --> 01:52:24,840
Speaker 3: He said he had opinions unquote the prosecution of the war.

2114
01:52:25,240 --> 01:52:27,439
Speaker 3: Heard a little bit about that from Kirk towards the

2115
01:52:27,520 --> 01:52:31,799
Speaker 3: end of his life. Certainly nothing that was a criticism

2116
01:52:32,400 --> 01:52:35,120
Speaker 3: as harsh as you know you would hear from Tucker Carlson,

2117
01:52:35,240 --> 01:52:35,879
Speaker 3: for example.

2118
01:52:36,040 --> 01:52:36,200
Speaker 2: Right.

2119
01:52:36,479 --> 01:52:41,360
Speaker 3: But yeah, this is basically a confirmation which we almost

2120
01:52:41,439 --> 01:52:44,040
Speaker 3: don't even know, we don't almost don't even need, because

2121
01:52:44,160 --> 01:52:47,360
Speaker 3: Charlie had that appearance with Megan Kelly, I think this

2122
01:52:47,479 --> 01:52:51,080
Speaker 3: was in early August, where he was openly talking about

2123
01:52:51,600 --> 01:52:54,360
Speaker 3: the pressures he was under, the pressures that he was facing.

2124
01:52:54,439 --> 01:52:57,439
Speaker 3: But now I think we can say confidently that turning

2125
01:52:57,479 --> 01:53:00,840
Speaker 3: point us they did actually lose a donor, a big

2126
01:53:00,880 --> 01:53:01,840
Speaker 3: donor over this.

2127
01:53:02,800 --> 01:53:05,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, and according to Colvett, you know that one he

2128
01:53:06,200 --> 01:53:08,600
Speaker 2: said one in particular that was very frustrating. But he

2129
01:53:08,880 --> 01:53:12,040
Speaker 2: did say originally, you know, after that there were donors

2130
01:53:12,040 --> 01:53:15,360
Speaker 2: that they lost over having Tucker and having Dave Smith,

2131
01:53:15,400 --> 01:53:17,679
Speaker 2: et cetera. And it's also this is a small point,

2132
01:53:17,680 --> 01:53:19,840
Speaker 2: but I mean it's also interesting his note of like, hey,

2133
01:53:19,920 --> 01:53:22,439
Speaker 2: we don't actually it wasn't actually a lot of Jewish donors,

2134
01:53:22,439 --> 01:53:24,880
Speaker 2: which why you know, I think it's very important people

2135
01:53:24,920 --> 01:53:27,400
Speaker 2: be precise in their language how they speak about these things,

2136
01:53:27,400 --> 01:53:32,120
Speaker 2: because actually the strongest pro Zionist constituency in the US

2137
01:53:32,600 --> 01:53:36,559
Speaker 2: is not Jewish people. It's evangelical Christians. So it would

2138
01:53:36,560 --> 01:53:39,000
Speaker 2: be no surprise to me that some of the people

2139
01:53:39,040 --> 01:53:43,639
Speaker 2: who pulled support over just the platforming of Tucker Carlson

2140
01:53:43,920 --> 01:53:47,160
Speaker 2: were not Jewish. Very possible that they were, you know,

2141
01:53:47,200 --> 01:53:50,400
Speaker 2: Evangelical Christians or others too, just are you know, closely

2142
01:53:50,400 --> 01:53:51,639
Speaker 2: Trump aligned, et cetera.

2143
01:53:52,479 --> 01:53:54,800
Speaker 5: That's why you know, I like framing this.

2144
01:53:54,880 --> 01:53:59,599
Speaker 2: Story as everybody versus the Jews is actually anti Semitic

2145
01:53:59,720 --> 01:54:03,240
Speaker 2: and is also not accurate in terms of the reality

2146
01:54:03,320 --> 01:54:05,719
Speaker 2: of the political dynamics that play out here with regard

2147
01:54:05,800 --> 01:54:10,839
Speaker 2: to the US's on equivocal and constant support for Israel.

2148
01:54:11,160 --> 01:54:12,920
Speaker 2: But you know, in a lot of ways, he did

2149
01:54:12,920 --> 01:54:16,280
Speaker 2: confirm at least this report from UH from the Gray

2150
01:54:16,360 --> 01:54:19,040
Speaker 2: Zone and Max Plumenthal, And as you said, it also

2151
01:54:19,160 --> 01:54:22,200
Speaker 2: confirms what was already leaking out to the public. No

2152
01:54:22,240 --> 01:54:24,600
Speaker 2: one should be under the illusion that Charlie Kirk was

2153
01:54:24,600 --> 01:54:29,840
Speaker 2: anything but you know, relatively and consistently pro Israel. But

2154
01:54:29,920 --> 01:54:32,560
Speaker 2: I also get the sense in Emily you probably attract

2155
01:54:32,560 --> 01:54:34,840
Speaker 2: this more closely than I have. Like I can just

2156
01:54:34,880 --> 01:54:37,560
Speaker 2: imagine Charlie Kirk became this you know, activist at a

2157
01:54:37,640 --> 01:54:42,120
Speaker 2: very young age, and you know, his role was backing

2158
01:54:42,160 --> 01:54:45,200
Speaker 2: up the administration, providing you know, the talking points that

2159
01:54:45,240 --> 01:54:48,600
Speaker 2: would back up the administration's line, backing up Trump whatever.

2160
01:54:49,040 --> 01:54:53,640
Speaker 2: And now he's a thirty one year old man, and

2161
01:54:54,480 --> 01:54:57,440
Speaker 2: perhaps he didn't want that relationship just to be okay,

2162
01:54:57,440 --> 01:54:59,920
Speaker 2: whatever Trump says, I'm going to back up he want.

2163
01:55:00,680 --> 01:55:02,560
Speaker 2: He maybe was chafing at that role a bit. We

2164
01:55:02,640 --> 01:55:06,120
Speaker 2: know the reporting about how he obviously publicly was opposing

2165
01:55:06,160 --> 01:55:08,240
Speaker 2: a strike on Iran, and that he tried to raise

2166
01:55:08,280 --> 01:55:11,160
Speaker 2: those concerns with Trump and was really you know, berated

2167
01:55:11,640 --> 01:55:14,320
Speaker 2: for that in particular. And so I don't think it

2168
01:55:14,320 --> 01:55:17,760
Speaker 2: would be a surprise that, at this age and at

2169
01:55:17,840 --> 01:55:21,360
Speaker 2: his level of maturity is like a full grown man

2170
01:55:21,440 --> 01:55:23,360
Speaker 2: with kids and a family and a wife and all

2171
01:55:23,400 --> 01:55:25,960
Speaker 2: of those sorts of things, that he would be starting

2172
01:55:26,000 --> 01:55:28,960
Speaker 2: to sort of chafe in this role and asking questions

2173
01:55:28,960 --> 01:55:31,480
Speaker 2: about like, Okay, well, I can criticize the US, but

2174
01:55:31,520 --> 01:55:34,440
Speaker 2: I can't criticize Israel, and by the way, Israelis can

2175
01:55:34,480 --> 01:55:37,480
Speaker 2: criticize Israel, but I can't. You know, don't have the

2176
01:55:37,480 --> 01:55:40,680
Speaker 2: same freedom here and come under all this insane pressure

2177
01:55:41,040 --> 01:55:43,240
Speaker 2: if I don't even say anything, I just have someone

2178
01:55:43,280 --> 01:55:46,680
Speaker 2: on stage who says something they disagree with. I don't

2179
01:55:46,680 --> 01:55:50,160
Speaker 2: think that's a surprising development that he was starting to

2180
01:55:50,240 --> 01:55:53,040
Speaker 2: feel very restricted and constrained in that role.

2181
01:55:53,480 --> 01:55:57,879
Speaker 3: No, because again he's a member of the younger cohort

2182
01:55:57,920 --> 01:56:01,440
Speaker 3: of conservatives where we've seen significant shifts in polling, and

2183
01:56:02,000 --> 01:56:05,960
Speaker 3: if you grow up after the or in the time

2184
01:56:06,000 --> 01:56:08,360
Speaker 3: of the global War on Terror post nine to eleven,

2185
01:56:09,160 --> 01:56:11,879
Speaker 3: you probably do have a very different opinion. Your opinion

2186
01:56:11,920 --> 01:56:15,000
Speaker 3: on the country has been forged at a time where

2187
01:56:15,080 --> 01:56:18,880
Speaker 3: if you if you were previously supportive and then start

2188
01:56:18,920 --> 01:56:20,920
Speaker 3: asking questions. And I'm speaking this as somebody who was

2189
01:56:20,960 --> 01:56:24,400
Speaker 3: sort of on a similar arc with Charlie, and I

2190
01:56:24,440 --> 01:56:26,240
Speaker 3: mentioned this on the Show with Ryan last week. But

2191
01:56:26,640 --> 01:56:28,640
Speaker 3: for all of the differences that Charlie and I had

2192
01:56:28,680 --> 01:56:32,640
Speaker 3: over the years, I'm after he started speaking out about

2193
01:56:32,640 --> 01:56:36,160
Speaker 3: the free speech stuff. In particular, I had meant to

2194
01:56:36,200 --> 01:56:38,000
Speaker 3: send him a note, and I was going to send

2195
01:56:38,040 --> 01:56:41,960
Speaker 3: him a note and was trying to be like trying

2196
01:56:41,960 --> 01:56:44,280
Speaker 3: to not make it look like it was fake or

2197
01:56:44,320 --> 01:56:46,600
Speaker 3: anything like that, because I genuinely appreciated what he was

2198
01:56:46,640 --> 01:56:48,560
Speaker 3: doing and obviously never got the chance to do that.

2199
01:56:48,680 --> 01:56:52,400
Speaker 3: Because there are so many of us that have just

2200
01:56:52,760 --> 01:56:54,680
Speaker 3: you know, with I think especially some of it is

2201
01:56:54,800 --> 01:56:59,200
Speaker 3: the fracturing in media and everyone's kind of media bubbles pop.

2202
01:56:59,240 --> 01:57:01,440
Speaker 3: I've talked a lot about this on the show and

2203
01:57:01,600 --> 01:57:04,240
Speaker 3: my own experience going along that arc, but I think

2204
01:57:04,320 --> 01:57:06,920
Speaker 3: a lot of people are in a similar position and

2205
01:57:06,960 --> 01:57:09,760
Speaker 3: then being told you can't even ask questions, which is

2206
01:57:09,760 --> 01:57:11,840
Speaker 3: what he did at turning Point when he hosted a

2207
01:57:11,880 --> 01:57:16,520
Speaker 3: debate between his friend Josh Hammer and Dave Smith. I mean,

2208
01:57:16,760 --> 01:57:20,400
Speaker 3: just insane that you get keyt for hosting a debate

2209
01:57:21,600 --> 01:57:24,560
Speaker 3: and remaining consistent on the question of free speech. And

2210
01:57:24,600 --> 01:57:26,760
Speaker 3: I just want to read one more portion here from

2211
01:57:26,760 --> 01:57:30,200
Speaker 3: the Gray Zone story because it's remarkable for me as

2212
01:57:30,200 --> 01:57:33,480
Speaker 3: somebody in conservative movement world goes to a lot of

2213
01:57:33,480 --> 01:57:36,960
Speaker 3: these chicken dinners. They report, and some of this is

2214
01:57:37,040 --> 01:57:40,000
Speaker 3: source to a TPUSA insider, but they report The Gray

2215
01:57:40,040 --> 01:57:43,280
Speaker 3: Zone was informed that Shilman announced the termination of contributions

2216
01:57:43,280 --> 01:57:47,240
Speaker 3: to TPUSA during a private dinner of another organization he funds,

2217
01:57:47,320 --> 01:57:50,320
Speaker 3: the American Freedom Alliance, according to an attendee of the event,

2218
01:57:50,720 --> 01:57:53,840
Speaker 3: which was held in la on September sixth, so not

2219
01:57:54,120 --> 01:57:57,360
Speaker 3: back in the summer. September sixth, Shilman stated that he

2220
01:57:57,400 --> 01:58:01,080
Speaker 3: would be ending his donations to Kirk diverting them instead

2221
01:58:01,080 --> 01:58:05,200
Speaker 3: to reliably proclude laclude anti Islam groups like the AFA,

2222
01:58:05,240 --> 01:58:08,320
Speaker 3: so the American Freedom Alliance. That is remarkable. I have

2223
01:58:08,440 --> 01:58:11,640
Speaker 3: never seen anything like that at a conservative movement event.

2224
01:58:11,720 --> 01:58:15,480
Speaker 3: I've never seen anything like a donor coming out at

2225
01:58:15,520 --> 01:58:19,760
Speaker 3: a dinner a banquet and publicly announcing that they are

2226
01:58:20,000 --> 01:58:24,840
Speaker 3: routing money they put into another organization that they enthusiastically

2227
01:58:25,000 --> 01:58:30,000
Speaker 3: supported for years. Making a public announcement like that yes,

2228
01:58:30,000 --> 01:58:31,840
Speaker 3: it's a private dinner, but you're doing it in front

2229
01:58:31,880 --> 01:58:35,840
Speaker 3: of people in the public sphere. Right, You're out in

2230
01:58:36,040 --> 01:58:39,120
Speaker 3: Los Angeles at a banquet. That is remarkable. That is

2231
01:58:39,200 --> 01:58:41,200
Speaker 3: unheard of as far as I'm concerned, I've been around

2232
01:58:41,240 --> 01:58:43,720
Speaker 3: a lot of these events. I've never ever heard of

2233
01:58:43,800 --> 01:58:47,280
Speaker 3: anything like that happening. So these pressures were not just

2234
01:58:47,440 --> 01:58:52,200
Speaker 3: in the background. This is some serious, serious stuff. And

2235
01:58:52,560 --> 01:58:55,560
Speaker 3: something Alex Clark mentioned during the podcast conversation, which I

2236
01:58:55,560 --> 01:58:57,440
Speaker 3: listened to all of it was very interesting is that

2237
01:58:59,400 --> 01:59:02,520
Speaker 3: she had really Charlie had recently told her, Wow, this

2238
01:59:02,640 --> 01:59:03,640
Speaker 3: infighting on the right.

2239
01:59:03,520 --> 01:59:05,280
Speaker 4: Over Israel, this is this is real.

2240
01:59:05,320 --> 01:59:07,280
Speaker 3: These are these are real divisions, right, this is a

2241
01:59:07,320 --> 01:59:10,200
Speaker 3: real problem. And they didn't get to continue the conversation,

2242
01:59:10,280 --> 01:59:13,800
Speaker 3: but basically they had had that discussion, uh, that Charlie

2243
01:59:13,840 --> 01:59:15,800
Speaker 3: didn't think it was sort of a sideshow, but that

2244
01:59:15,840 --> 01:59:18,320
Speaker 3: this was genuinely a problem facing the right.

2245
01:59:18,360 --> 01:59:20,120
Speaker 4: And you can see why when.

2246
01:59:19,960 --> 01:59:24,879
Speaker 3: You have a like a long time donor talking trash

2247
01:59:24,920 --> 01:59:28,960
Speaker 3: about your organization because of it's hosting a debate on Israel.

2248
01:59:29,640 --> 01:59:33,280
Speaker 3: I mean, this is like, this is crazy, crazy stuff.

2249
01:59:34,120 --> 01:59:37,360
Speaker 2: Well, and the context there that you're gesturing towards is

2250
01:59:37,400 --> 01:59:40,200
Speaker 2: that everyone else in the room would have already been

2251
01:59:40,280 --> 01:59:43,040
Speaker 2: read in on this controversy, or he would have been

2252
01:59:43,080 --> 01:59:45,440
Speaker 2: aware of it, would have been applauding, like, yes, you

2253
01:59:45,440 --> 01:59:49,160
Speaker 2: should be pulling your funding from TPUSA, How brave of you,

2254
01:59:49,760 --> 01:59:53,000
Speaker 2: Thank you for funneling your dollars into consistently pro the

2255
01:59:53,120 --> 01:59:57,440
Speaker 2: code outfits, et cetera. So this wasn't, as you said,

2256
01:59:57,440 --> 01:59:59,040
Speaker 2: something that was on the back burner. This was very

2257
01:59:59,120 --> 02:00:02,600
Speaker 2: much foreground for this group, at least of you know,

2258
02:00:02,920 --> 02:00:07,760
Speaker 2: significant Republican donors who all would have been aware of

2259
02:00:07,800 --> 02:00:10,880
Speaker 2: this controversy and aware of the ways that Charlie the

2260
02:00:10,960 --> 02:00:15,240
Speaker 2: Kirk had apparently strayed from the pro Israel just like

2261
02:00:15,320 --> 02:00:17,840
Speaker 2: pro Netna no matter what line.

2262
02:00:18,000 --> 02:00:19,880
Speaker 5: And I do think it's just worth noting.

2263
02:00:20,040 --> 02:00:24,200
Speaker 2: Like, like Colvett said, Charlie, if you listen to him,

2264
02:00:24,240 --> 02:00:27,120
Speaker 2: he was very pro Israel, right, he said things that

2265
02:00:27,240 --> 02:00:29,880
Speaker 2: about I mean, he supported the genocide, like, he said

2266
02:00:29,880 --> 02:00:32,840
Speaker 2: things I found to be morally outrageous about all of this.

2267
02:00:33,400 --> 02:00:36,400
Speaker 2: And yet the very fact that he would even have

2268
02:00:36,480 --> 02:00:39,800
Speaker 2: someone with the different view at the conference was like

2269
02:00:40,200 --> 02:00:46,480
Speaker 2: they just they they are so sensitive to any break

2270
02:00:46,720 --> 02:00:50,919
Speaker 2: from the one hundred percent we're on board with everyone everything.

2271
02:00:51,000 --> 02:00:54,280
Speaker 2: We will never breathe a voice of criticism. Yes, our

2272
02:00:54,360 --> 02:00:57,480
Speaker 2: enemies all need to be crushed and never heard from again.

2273
02:00:57,880 --> 02:01:01,560
Speaker 2: If you deviate even one inch from that, even if

2274
02:01:01,600 --> 02:01:04,040
Speaker 2: you're Charlie Kirk, they will threaten you, they'll pull your

2275
02:01:04,320 --> 02:01:08,360
Speaker 2: your funding, you know, and like make an example of

2276
02:01:08,400 --> 02:01:10,360
Speaker 2: all of those sorts of things. And so I think

2277
02:01:10,400 --> 02:01:13,480
Speaker 2: it's a really important glimpse of the pressures that are

2278
02:01:13,520 --> 02:01:17,080
Speaker 2: brought to bear on all sorts of people, especially I

2279
02:01:17,120 --> 02:01:18,960
Speaker 2: think right now people are on the right. I think

2280
02:01:19,000 --> 02:01:21,440
Speaker 2: they feel like the Democrats, you know, the activists and

2281
02:01:21,480 --> 02:01:23,880
Speaker 2: the Democratic Party are kind of buying large loss, although

2282
02:01:23,920 --> 02:01:26,520
Speaker 2: I think at the elite, at the politician level, that

2283
02:01:26,600 --> 02:01:29,000
Speaker 2: sort of pressure is still applied. But it's just an

2284
02:01:29,040 --> 02:01:32,960
Speaker 2: interesting autopsy of what it looks like to be inside

2285
02:01:33,000 --> 02:01:35,560
Speaker 2: the belly of the beast and the way that they

2286
02:01:35,720 --> 02:01:39,560
Speaker 2: bring pressure to bear on you that may not be,

2287
02:01:39,720 --> 02:01:42,000
Speaker 2: you know, obvious if you're just looking at it from

2288
02:01:42,040 --> 02:01:45,360
Speaker 2: the outside. The last thing we wanted to highlight here

2289
02:01:45,480 --> 02:01:48,120
Speaker 2: was just a kind of eyebrow raising comment that was

2290
02:01:48,160 --> 02:01:52,920
Speaker 2: also made by Corvette about the how they were able

2291
02:01:52,920 --> 02:01:55,240
Speaker 2: to work with their tech partners to identify hundreds of

2292
02:01:55,280 --> 02:01:58,480
Speaker 2: thousands of cell phones that came to attend Charlie Kirk's

2293
02:01:58,520 --> 02:01:59,200
Speaker 2: memorial service.

2294
02:01:59,240 --> 02:02:00,400
Speaker 5: Let's go and take a look this.

2295
02:02:00,800 --> 02:02:02,960
Speaker 16: And by the way, I'm gonna break a little bit

2296
02:02:02,960 --> 02:02:06,480
Speaker 16: of news on your program, Jesse, are partners that do

2297
02:02:06,600 --> 02:02:09,840
Speaker 16: sort of geotagging with devices. They told us that they

2298
02:02:09,920 --> 02:02:13,840
Speaker 16: tracked over two hundred and seventy seven thousand devices in

2299
02:02:13,880 --> 02:02:18,400
Speaker 16: the vicinity of State Farm Stadium in Glendale, Arizona.

2300
02:02:18,560 --> 02:02:20,560
Speaker 5: Two and seventy seven thousand.

2301
02:02:21,320 --> 02:02:23,320
Speaker 16: So that just gives you an idea of the scale

2302
02:02:23,360 --> 02:02:24,200
Speaker 16: of humanity.

2303
02:02:24,720 --> 02:02:26,320
Speaker 5: I would like to know more about that, Emily.

2304
02:02:26,960 --> 02:02:31,960
Speaker 3: I am curious sort of there are places that you

2305
02:02:31,960 --> 02:02:34,960
Speaker 3: can go to get that information. I mean, that is

2306
02:02:35,000 --> 02:02:39,560
Speaker 3: an insane turnout, like just we're talking like Billy Graham

2307
02:02:39,680 --> 02:02:45,959
Speaker 3: level event, if not more. That happened in Arizona on Sunday.

2308
02:02:46,240 --> 02:02:49,440
Speaker 3: So I get why that is a stunning number. I

2309
02:02:49,480 --> 02:02:52,400
Speaker 3: am curious where that ever comes from.

2310
02:02:52,640 --> 02:02:55,240
Speaker 2: Who are the tech who are the tech partners. Let's

2311
02:02:55,240 --> 02:02:58,120
Speaker 2: know more about what you're doing with that information. I mean,

2312
02:02:58,160 --> 02:03:02,720
Speaker 2: it's also just a commentary on how comfy he thinks

2313
02:03:02,720 --> 02:03:04,600
Speaker 2: society is at this point with just this kind of

2314
02:03:04,680 --> 02:03:08,680
Speaker 2: surveillance tech being used all the time by private actors,

2315
02:03:08,720 --> 02:03:10,920
Speaker 2: by the government, et cetera, that this is something to

2316
02:03:10,920 --> 02:03:12,400
Speaker 2: brag about on Fox News.

2317
02:03:12,600 --> 02:03:15,120
Speaker 3: Well, and I mean, I'm sure that they're like mostly

2318
02:03:15,240 --> 02:03:16,880
Speaker 3: interesting getting the number out there. But this was a

2319
02:03:16,960 --> 02:03:20,879
Speaker 3: thing about January sixth, if you remember, Crystal Google basically

2320
02:03:20,920 --> 02:03:23,480
Speaker 3: turned over I mean, a lot of data was turned

2321
02:03:23,480 --> 02:03:26,040
Speaker 3: over to Track and the right was really upset about this,

2322
02:03:26,040 --> 02:03:29,000
Speaker 3: and I think understandably so, and some actually civil libertarian

2323
02:03:29,480 --> 02:03:32,200
Speaker 3: civil libertarians more on the left were upset about it too,

2324
02:03:33,000 --> 02:03:37,440
Speaker 3: because the way, without warrants, through various loopholes, the government

2325
02:03:37,480 --> 02:03:39,760
Speaker 3: was able to get this information on everybody who was

2326
02:03:40,520 --> 02:03:43,120
Speaker 3: near the capital was insane.

2327
02:03:43,720 --> 02:03:45,480
Speaker 4: And so yeah, there are all kinds of ways to

2328
02:03:45,520 --> 02:03:45,760
Speaker 4: do this.

2329
02:03:46,120 --> 02:03:50,240
Speaker 3: Two really quick points just to wrap this all up. One,

2330
02:03:51,320 --> 02:03:55,000
Speaker 3: the people who are closest to Trump know that Trump

2331
02:03:55,160 --> 02:03:59,839
Speaker 3: respects you more if you when you are sort of honest,

2332
02:04:00,680 --> 02:04:04,400
Speaker 3: that meaning like you're not pulling your punches in public.

2333
02:04:04,520 --> 02:04:09,080
Speaker 3: He loves the sort of fealty and loyalty that he

2334
02:04:09,120 --> 02:04:11,760
Speaker 3: gets from his cabinet, of course, because he knows that

2335
02:04:11,760 --> 02:04:14,200
Speaker 3: they have to support him at every step of the way.

2336
02:04:15,280 --> 02:04:19,080
Speaker 3: But he doesn't respect the people who act as Pravda.

2337
02:04:19,480 --> 02:04:22,400
Speaker 3: He's nice to them, right, but he doesn't respect them.

2338
02:04:22,600 --> 02:04:24,480
Speaker 3: But the people who are closest to Donald Trump know

2339
02:04:24,720 --> 02:04:28,360
Speaker 3: that it's okay to come and do what Tucker and

2340
02:04:28,520 --> 02:04:31,640
Speaker 3: Charlie apparently did, which was ahead of the iron strike,

2341
02:04:32,600 --> 02:04:35,120
Speaker 3: go and say, hey, here's what I'm thinking, I don't

2342
02:04:35,120 --> 02:04:39,960
Speaker 3: know about this. That's I think reflective indicative of Charlie

2343
02:04:40,120 --> 02:04:43,280
Speaker 3: Kirk being someone who is really in the Trump inner circle.

2344
02:04:43,320 --> 02:04:45,920
Speaker 3: And secondly, one of the other things coll That said

2345
02:04:45,920 --> 02:04:47,760
Speaker 3: on that podcast is that Charlie had started to get

2346
02:04:47,800 --> 02:04:51,840
Speaker 3: bored with politics and was more interested than IDAs very

2347
02:04:51,880 --> 02:04:55,200
Speaker 3: interesting because I think he was leaning into this media,

2348
02:04:56,760 --> 02:05:01,320
Speaker 3: this media role as someone who's a commentator, not quite

2349
02:05:01,320 --> 02:05:04,800
Speaker 3: a journalist, but somebody who's a broadcaster and you know,

2350
02:05:04,880 --> 02:05:07,080
Speaker 3: like one of his heroes, a Dennis Praeger or a

2351
02:05:07,200 --> 02:05:11,160
Speaker 3: RUSHLMBA who's like talking through the news instead of kind

2352
02:05:11,200 --> 02:05:14,920
Speaker 3: of doing organizing and activism. And I think, you know,

2353
02:05:14,920 --> 02:05:17,880
Speaker 3: we may have seen a very different direction or more

2354
02:05:17,920 --> 02:05:19,880
Speaker 3: of this from Charlie Kirk.

2355
02:05:20,200 --> 02:05:23,320
Speaker 4: Now Crystal Joe Rogan went into some of the.

2356
02:05:23,200 --> 02:05:27,560
Speaker 3: Theories about what may have happened with the assassin. I

2357
02:05:27,560 --> 02:05:31,320
Speaker 3: don't think there's any evidence of while we're talking about

2358
02:05:31,400 --> 02:05:33,680
Speaker 3: you know, Israel, Obviously people have tied this into the

2359
02:05:33,760 --> 02:05:39,040
Speaker 3: various conspiracy theories about this assassination, having still some big questions.

2360
02:05:38,600 --> 02:05:39,920
Speaker 4: That are are unanswered.

2361
02:05:40,320 --> 02:05:43,960
Speaker 3: I'm not on the Israel de a bandwagon, but it's

2362
02:05:44,000 --> 02:05:46,680
Speaker 3: also worth talking about what was happening behind the scenes

2363
02:05:46,720 --> 02:05:50,920
Speaker 3: with donors because it tells us so much, as you said,

2364
02:05:51,080 --> 02:05:54,240
Speaker 3: about what's happening inside of the right right now.

2365
02:05:55,000 --> 02:05:55,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, it does.

2366
02:05:55,920 --> 02:05:59,560
Speaker 2: And also when Natanyahu immediately comes out inserts himself into

2367
02:05:59,680 --> 02:06:02,880
Speaker 2: our politics and claims Charlie as you know, his own,

2368
02:06:03,400 --> 02:06:06,320
Speaker 2: I think that's something that needs to be discussed, and

2369
02:06:06,360 --> 02:06:09,400
Speaker 2: it fits with you know, my view that is, I

2370
02:06:09,400 --> 02:06:12,200
Speaker 2: guess somewhat controversial that it's important if you have a

2371
02:06:12,200 --> 02:06:17,600
Speaker 2: public figure who's killed or who dies, to try to

2372
02:06:17,680 --> 02:06:21,440
Speaker 2: assess accurately who they were, what they stood for, what

2373
02:06:21,480 --> 02:06:24,840
Speaker 2: they believed, what they said, even when those things are

2374
02:06:24,960 --> 02:06:27,840
Speaker 2: are uncomfortable. So there's there's a lot of reasons I

2375
02:06:27,880 --> 02:06:30,160
Speaker 2: think to be interested in the story and find it

2376
02:06:30,240 --> 02:06:33,160
Speaker 2: very important for American politics outside of a you know,

2377
02:06:33,360 --> 02:06:36,000
Speaker 2: conspiracy that that Israel had automotive in Israel?

2378
02:06:36,160 --> 02:06:36,480
Speaker 4: Did it?

2379
02:06:37,360 --> 02:06:40,000
Speaker 2: Did Israel have a I don't know, maybe, but did

2380
02:06:40,000 --> 02:06:42,000
Speaker 2: they do it at this point, there's no evidence to

2381
02:06:42,000 --> 02:06:42,560
Speaker 2: support that.

2382
02:06:43,040 --> 02:06:47,280
Speaker 3: Right, Well, we were or as this is a girl show,

2383
02:06:48,080 --> 02:06:49,440
Speaker 3: everybody knows we went long.

2384
02:06:49,440 --> 02:06:50,360
Speaker 4: We could have gone longer.

2385
02:06:50,400 --> 02:06:52,160
Speaker 3: We even cut a segment that we moved to the

2386
02:06:52,200 --> 02:06:57,400
Speaker 3: Friday show because, as Crystal said during one of the breaks, quote,

2387
02:06:58,040 --> 02:07:00,200
Speaker 3: women be talking.

2388
02:07:00,360 --> 02:07:01,560
Speaker 4: It's not exactly what you did.

2389
02:07:02,160 --> 02:07:04,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the sanitized version of what I said.

2390
02:07:04,960 --> 02:07:05,680
Speaker 5: Yes, that's right.

2391
02:07:06,200 --> 02:07:08,600
Speaker 2: Well, it's always fun to hang out with you, Emily

2392
02:07:08,800 --> 02:07:11,600
Speaker 2: and I enjoyed it very much. To tomorrow, like I said,

2393
02:07:11,640 --> 02:07:13,560
Speaker 2: it'll be me and Ryan for the comedy takeover. So

2394
02:07:13,640 --> 02:07:15,840
Speaker 2: all sorts of flavors of show going on this week.

2395
02:07:16,160 --> 02:07:16,720
Speaker 4: Love it.

2396
02:07:16,720 --> 02:07:20,840
Speaker 3: It's like Baskin Robbins thirty two flavors. Great stuff. Well,

2397
02:07:20,840 --> 02:07:23,160
Speaker 3: thanks everyone for tuning in. Thank you Crystal for joining

2398
02:07:23,280 --> 02:07:26,280
Speaker 3: us this Wednesday. I'm looking forward to the comedy takeover.

2399
02:07:26,960 --> 02:07:29,320
Speaker 3: Maybe you guys will get it in undertime. I don't know,

2400
02:07:29,640 --> 02:07:30,120
Speaker 3: we'll see.

2401
02:07:30,360 --> 02:07:32,000
Speaker 4: I'll be watching. I'll be timing you guys with my

2402
02:07:32,040 --> 02:07:32,520
Speaker 4: stop watch.

2403
02:07:32,600 --> 02:07:32,800
Speaker 3: Ryan.

2404
02:07:32,840 --> 02:07:34,120
Speaker 5: Can Loki be a talker too?

2405
02:07:34,240 --> 02:07:36,800
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, but in the most going, But you

2406
02:07:36,840 --> 02:07:39,800
Speaker 3: don't want him to stop, right, like he's.

2407
02:07:39,360 --> 02:07:42,040
Speaker 5: I'm not complaining, I'm just giving a fact. Yeah.

2408
02:07:42,560 --> 02:07:45,000
Speaker 3: All right, well, looking forward to that tomorrow. Thanks for

2409
02:07:45,040 --> 02:07:48,000
Speaker 3: tuning in everyone, Crystal and Ryan will see you in

2410
02:07:48,400 --> 02:08:04,600
Speaker 3: just a bit on Thursday.