Speaker 1: Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're sitting
Speaker 1: by the pool with our feed up, enjoying the first
Speaker 1: day of our break.
Speaker 2: But we couldn't leave you with that a little something
Speaker 2: to listen to.
Speaker 1: It's Monday, June thirtieth, and on today's show, we're bringing
Speaker 1: you my recent appearance on an episode of the Hello
Speaker 1: Sunshine podcast The bright Side, hosted by Simone Voice. I
Speaker 1: had the opportunity to hop on with Simone back in
Speaker 1: May and talk about why being pushed out of your
Speaker 1: quote unquote dream job isn't the end, what it means
Speaker 1: to be a woman who contains multitudes and a world
Speaker 1: that wants you to shrink, chasing big dreams, creating lasting
Speaker 1: change in women's sports, and the power of owning every
Speaker 1: part of your story. I really love this conversation with Simone,
Speaker 1: and I think you all will too.
Speaker 2: That episode of The bright Side is coming up right
Speaker 2: after this.
Speaker 3: Okay, y'all, it is time to get this episode started.
Speaker 3: We told you we put a lot of thought into
Speaker 3: how we wanted to kick off this new season, and
Speaker 3: we've been really intentional about who would set the time
Speaker 3: for the kinds of conversations that we want to have
Speaker 3: together And I told you, I told you I wanted
Speaker 3: to go deeper with you this season, and we're doing
Speaker 3: that today with someone who embodies main character energy. And
Speaker 3: I'm not talking about the overused trendy way, No, I'm
Speaker 3: talking about somebody who takes big swings, who wipes out
Speaker 3: and still finds the audacity to get back up. Someone
Speaker 3: who has stared down rejection, fear of failure, and that
Speaker 3: relentless inner critic and chose to trust yourself anyway. Someone
Speaker 3: who refuses to shrink or let the world put her
Speaker 3: in a box. Someone like Sarah Spain. You probably know
Speaker 3: Sarah from ESPN, from her razor sharp commentary on sports
Speaker 3: and culture, or maybe just from being one of the
Speaker 3: smartest voices in the media game right now. She's been
Speaker 3: a fixture at ESPN for over a decade, across platforms
Speaker 3: like Around the Horn, Highly Questionable, and Spain and Fits.
Speaker 3: She's also an Emmy winner and a Peabody winner. Okay,
Speaker 3: a longtime advocate for women in sports and equity and media,
Speaker 3: which is one of the reasons why she created Good
Speaker 3: Game with Sarah Spain, the first daily podcast dedicated to
Speaker 3: women's sports and most recently, she's the author of the
Speaker 3: new book Runs in the Family, which follows the real
Speaker 3: life story of Delan McCullough, a father of four and
Speaker 3: accomplished football coach whose world gets turned upside down when
Speaker 3: he learns the truth about his family history. Y'all, I
Speaker 3: knew going into this conversation that Sarah and I were
Speaker 3: going to have a few things in common. I personally
Speaker 3: know what it's like to climb through the ranks of
Speaker 3: the media industry only to be met with constant rejection,
Speaker 3: and also confronting the reality that there are going to
Speaker 3: be suits and gatekeepers at every turn who want to
Speaker 3: keep you in a box and make you stay in
Speaker 3: your lane. But what I didn't expect was how candid
Speaker 3: Sarah was about her setbacks and low points, and that
Speaker 3: honesty was so liberating. It was so refreshing to hear,
Speaker 3: and it really inspired me not to fear those moments,
Speaker 3: but to embrace the freedom that comes on the other side.
Speaker 3: All Right, it's time to hype up the ultimate hype woman.
Speaker 3: Here's my conversation with Sarah Spain. Sarah Spain, Welcome to
Speaker 3: the bright Side.
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me.
Speaker 3: Congratulations on your book Runs in the family. You got
Speaker 3: the most epic co sign from our very own Reese
Speaker 3: Witherspoon on your story that this book is based on.
Speaker 3: And here's what Rees said. Okay, she said, quote had
Speaker 3: me in tears. It made me believe in fate, the
Speaker 3: power of family and divine intervention. And this is the
Speaker 3: best part. You know, this is the best part, she said.
Speaker 3: It's so well written. I mean, you can't ask for
Speaker 3: more than that.
Speaker 2: She wrote about it on every platform.
Speaker 1: She posted on Instagram, Twitter, like LinkedIn, wherever, Facebook, every
Speaker 1: single place she posted something so nice when it came out,
Speaker 1: and it was like, honestly, like my cheeks hurt from smiling.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, did Reason and I
Speaker 1: just become best friends. I'm still working on that part,
Speaker 1: but yeah, and so it was such a nice boost
Speaker 1: and like really awesome commentary from folks like that when
Speaker 1: we first did the story for ESPN, where I think
Speaker 1: a good little boost to get a book along the way.
Speaker 1: And so now I'm really excited for everyone to read
Speaker 1: the bigger, more full story.
Speaker 3: Hey, she is the Queen of books, so I know
Speaker 3: kind of endorsement does not hurt. What is your superpower
Speaker 3: as a storyteller, And how do you think it's on
Speaker 3: display in this book.
Speaker 2: I would say it's two. I would say one is empathy.
Speaker 1: I have a real desire to understand why people are
Speaker 1: the way that they are. And I think as I've
Speaker 1: gotten older, especially, I've become particularly interested in how people's
Speaker 1: lives have been different from mine, the pathologies that people
Speaker 1: get from the family systems in which they grow up,
Speaker 1: or the interactions that they have with loved ones, friends, lovers, whoever.
Speaker 1: I think it's a better way to go through life
Speaker 1: to tell yourself a story about how people got to
Speaker 1: be who they are instead of just being angry or judgmental.
Speaker 1: And so, as I get older and I study more
Speaker 1: about psychology, sociology, all the different things around just kind
Speaker 1: of why people are who they are, it makes me
Speaker 1: try to better understand people's choices instead of judging them.
Speaker 1: And so, particularly in a book like this that has
Speaker 1: these really complicated ideas of people who are dating, abuse
Speaker 1: of men, or men with drug problems, people who are
Speaker 1: struggling to pay the bills or maybe aren't making healthy choices,
Speaker 1: you can write a book like that and be up
Speaker 1: high on a hill and say, well, I never struggled
Speaker 1: with that, so that was a bad choice instead of
Speaker 1: trying to understand how they got to where they are.
Speaker 1: So I think the empathy was huge for this one.
Speaker 1: And then the other one is synthesizing ideas. I use
Speaker 1: this across all my jobs, podcasting, radio, writing, TV. Essentially,
Speaker 1: how do I get this thing that I want to
Speaker 1: say or this thing someone else said and put it
Speaker 1: into the right words to best express it.
Speaker 2: And for writing, I think, gosh, I should knock on wood.
Speaker 1: But I just never got writer's block during the book.
Speaker 1: And I think part of that is like my brain
Speaker 1: just naturally wants to take ideas and find a way
Speaker 1: to make them almost fit a puzzle and get across
Speaker 1: the themes or the stories nottes that I wanted to
Speaker 1: make sure we're in there.
Speaker 2: So I think those two superpowers were super helpful.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll say, and you are the envy of writers
Speaker 3: everywhere whoever probably ringing their hands experiencing writer's block right now.
Speaker 2: It probably jinks myself.
Speaker 3: Speaking of synthesizing, would you just synthesize the story of
Speaker 3: Runs in the Family for us?
Speaker 2: So long story short.
Speaker 1: Dylan McCullough is currently the Running Backs coach for the
Speaker 1: Las Vegas Raiders. He grew up in Youngstown, Ohio, right
Speaker 1: after the industrial collapse, so really tough time. There are
Speaker 1: a lot of people without jobs. Oftentimes he was without
Speaker 1: electricity or hot water. His family really struggled because his
Speaker 1: adoptive dad left when he was two, so now he's
Speaker 1: sort of doubly rejected by father. Figures growing up with
Speaker 1: a single mom who's trying to make it work for
Speaker 1: him and his brother Damon. He gets into football, ends
Speaker 1: up getting recruited by a handful of people, including a
Speaker 1: Youngstown fellow named Sherman Smith who had made it good
Speaker 1: at the NFL level, who recruits him to go to
Speaker 1: Miami of Ohio, breaks a bunch of records, tries to
Speaker 1: go to the NFL, gets injured, eventually gets into teaching
Speaker 1: and then coaching, and along the way starts a family.
Speaker 1: Has four sons. Doesn't know anything about his medical history,
Speaker 1: doesn't anything of his birth family, but as he gets
Speaker 1: older with his kids, he decides he's interested, and eventually
Speaker 1: the laws change. In Pennsylvania, where he was born, he
Speaker 1: can find his birth certificate, finds his mom within like
Speaker 1: a day on Facebook. She never got married, never had kids,
Speaker 1: she's been looking for him, she's so excited to find him.
Speaker 1: And now forty five years later, he asks, do you
Speaker 1: know who my dad is? It's not on my birth certificate,
Speaker 1: and she tells him and it's someone that's been in.
Speaker 2: His life for almost thirty years.
Speaker 1: And the dad never knew either because he was never
Speaker 1: told about the baby. So it's just a really incredible storied,
Speaker 1: such a feel good story. But also I really wanted
Speaker 1: to make sure it wasn't just about him. It was
Speaker 1: a story anybody could find themselves in to try to
Speaker 1: understand what's passed down via DNA versus, what's passed down
Speaker 1: via family systems, generational trauma, language and messaging, and how
Speaker 1: we get to decide what do we want to keep
Speaker 1: with our family, even backwards to our parents. Is that
Speaker 1: relationship serving us? Is that choice serving us? Or can
Speaker 1: we decide to change? And how those are interwoven with
Speaker 1: the things that were genetically handed that we can't choose.
Speaker 3: Well, you clearly lead with empathy and curiosity, and I
Speaker 3: think those are sister traits. They go hand in hand,
Speaker 3: especially in the field of journalism, and in that field
Speaker 3: you've worked across radio, television, podcasts, writing, what skill came first,
Speaker 3: or which one feels most like you at your.
Speaker 1: Core talking my poor parents, I just yeappen yeah, but professional? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Or since birth? Actually, it took me a little while
Speaker 2: to start talking, and then once they did, they were like,
Speaker 2: holy cow.
Speaker 1: I remember literally, like nine or ten years old, asking
Speaker 1: my parents if you can get paid to talk for
Speaker 1: a living, and they were like, no, that's not a job.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, found one genius.
Speaker 3: I've been a professional yapper for many years now, and
Speaker 3: I wish I had had the foresight to just speak
Speaker 3: it into existence at such a young age. Apparently I
Speaker 3: manifested it. Look at us now, I know we made
Speaker 3: it work.
Speaker 1: But the curiosity aspect too, you know, I've always wanted
Speaker 1: to do everything, try everything, do everything. I was in
Speaker 1: band Chorus three, sports Talent show, went to college. I
Speaker 1: was a heptathlete, which is literally the track event where
Speaker 1: you don't pick one thing, you do all seven of them.
Speaker 1: And then in ESPN and in my career podcast, national radio, writing, producing, television,
Speaker 1: like all the things, and so I think the curiosity
Speaker 1: to know how to do something and to try it,
Speaker 1: and then to understand why people are the way they
Speaker 1: are and get to know them. Those are a part
Speaker 1: of wanting to be like a journalist and explore stories.
Speaker 3: What is it about challenging yourself in all these different
Speaker 3: arenas that thrills you? Like why do you think you
Speaker 3: do it? And why do you think you go after
Speaker 3: everything so hard?
Speaker 1: I have a lot of life fomo. But it's not envy,
Speaker 1: if that makes a sense. Like I saw an interview
Speaker 1: with someone the other day and it totally clicked for me,
Speaker 1: and they said, when I see someone having success at
Speaker 1: something I think I would.
Speaker 2: Be great at, I have envy.
Speaker 1: There are plenty of times when I see people doing
Speaker 1: great things and I'm just happy for them. But if
Speaker 1: I'm happy for someone and there's a little bit of
Speaker 1: envy and means it might be meant for me. And
Speaker 1: I think that's how I felt growing up watching a
Speaker 1: lot of stuff like oh I think I could do that,
Speaker 1: and I think I could do it, well, let me
Speaker 1: try it. But yeah, I mean I think also, I'm
Speaker 1: pretty fearless. It's interesting. I feel fearless when I'm in control,
Speaker 1: and the older I get, the more I recognize that
Speaker 1: I do have issues with control. The first time I
Speaker 1: do anything I'm nervous because I'm like, wait, okay, where
Speaker 1: do I sit? What will the chair look like? Which
Speaker 1: TV am I looking at? What's this question going to be?
Speaker 2: Like? How is this?
Speaker 1: And then after one time that's it. Not nervous again,
Speaker 1: totally fearless, practically naive. Won't even think about the fact
Speaker 1: that tons of people are watching it's something terrible could
Speaker 1: go wrong. It just doesn't phaze me. So I think
Speaker 1: it's a naive fearlessness with like just a little twinge
Speaker 1: of needing to, you know, settle in.
Speaker 3: That was a per self diagnosis that you can tell.
Speaker 1: Reading a lot of books for this book about like therapy, trauma.
Speaker 3: And six We've got to take a short break, but
Speaker 3: more from Sarah after the break and we're back with
Speaker 3: Sarah Spain. So, considering that you have this zest for
Speaker 3: life and this life fomo, I want to hear what
Speaker 3: success looked like to you when you were just starting out.
Speaker 3: So can you take me back to that overachiever, younger
Speaker 3: version of yourself who just graduated from Cornell where you
Speaker 3: were co captain of the track and field team and
Speaker 3: a HATA athlete. What was baby Sarah chasing at that
Speaker 3: moment in time.
Speaker 1: Well, right after Cornell, I was still chasing my first dream,
Speaker 1: which was most of my life and still you know,
Speaker 1: in the background even though it's not realistic at this point,
Speaker 1: which was to be on Saturday Night Live. My dream
Speaker 1: was to be an actress and comedian and performer. But
Speaker 1: because I was doing all the sports and all the things,
Speaker 1: it was always conflicting with like the school play and
Speaker 1: other things like that. So I took some acting classes
Speaker 1: at Cornell, I moved home to save up a little money,
Speaker 1: and then I moved to La worked in a restaurant.
Speaker 1: Like every stereotype says, did auditions, did acting classes, did
Speaker 1: the Second City improv Conservatory. And it wasn't until I
Speaker 1: took a TV hosting boot camp and the teacher had
Speaker 1: us focus on something that we are an expert on
Speaker 1: to practice and I was like, my expertise is like literature.
Speaker 1: I was an English major, so that's not going to
Speaker 1: be on a show. So I did a fake Chicago
Speaker 1: Bears show. I just always been a sports fan and
Speaker 1: an athlete. And the teacher said, oh, you want to
Speaker 1: work in sports. It's like, no, there's no women in sports.
Speaker 1: And I want to be funny and the only women
Speaker 1: are like supermodels on the sidelines, like Aaron Andrews.
Speaker 2: And she said, well, it just seems natural you could
Speaker 2: try it.
Speaker 1: So I took a class in TV sports reporting at
Speaker 1: Yucilie and I was like, Oh, this is so many things.
Speaker 1: The writing, the extemporaneous thinking, the interview skills come out
Speaker 1: of improv my knowledge base.
Speaker 2: Having been a three sport athlete my whole life.
Speaker 1: I always think of that when I consider the fact
Speaker 1: that literally when they say you can see, if you
Speaker 1: can see it, you can be it.
Speaker 2: I never saw it.
Speaker 1: There were no women doing sports in Chicago growing up,
Speaker 1: and it was just not really considered an option. I
Speaker 1: think it's a good quality that I have that I
Speaker 1: don't have grudges and I don't get stuck in any place.
Speaker 1: But that also means when I look back, I'm sure
Speaker 1: I have a much rosier view of like what it
Speaker 1: was like back then. I think I really thought I
Speaker 1: had something and I was so terrified no one else
Speaker 1: thought that too.
Speaker 2: But I was really insecure about what I look like.
Speaker 1: I've never been as skinny as most of the people
Speaker 1: on TV, despite being a heptathlete. Like my body type
Speaker 1: is just not twig, and so I was so worried
Speaker 1: watching who was making it and thinking, oh, they really
Speaker 1: just care about what women look like. So my first
Speaker 1: job was this fantasy football show that was just like
Speaker 1: those online pop ups that used to pop up when
Speaker 1: you would go to a sports site back in the
Speaker 1: wild wild West of like very misogynist sports blogs, and
Speaker 1: it was like, Hi, I'm your fantasy sports girl Sarah
Speaker 1: with this week's fantasy football tips, and I had to
Speaker 1: wear like cleavage tops, and like that was a big break.
Speaker 1: I was in like Jim Rome's two million dollar studio
Speaker 1: with ESPN producers, and that was the only way I
Speaker 1: could get in, was like doing the stereotypical BS sexy stuff.
Speaker 1: Meanwhile I was trying to do. I was filming my
Speaker 1: own fake sketches for my hosting reel that were all
Speaker 1: like comedic and silly and ridiculous, and I think that
Speaker 1: was I think if you asked young me, I would
Speaker 1: never dream of a single thing I've accomplished. And that's
Speaker 1: what I tell myself every time I get an opportunity
Speaker 1: and I'm scared to take it, is what I have said.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna win it, Emmy or a Peabody, or get
Speaker 1: to be on TV or do around the Horn, or
Speaker 1: have my own show, or literally anything I've accomplished.
Speaker 2: I wish I could say I was that kind of dreamer.
Speaker 1: I always believed I had something, but I don't think
Speaker 1: I ever was brave enough.
Speaker 2: I'm very afraid failure.
Speaker 1: So if I never say the thing that I want
Speaker 1: and put it out there, then I never have anyone
Speaker 1: who could say, you said you wanted this and you
Speaker 1: didn't get it, you failed.
Speaker 2: That's so real.
Speaker 3: Okay, Wait, I have to rewind because there's so much
Speaker 3: there that I want to unpact, so much that you
Speaker 3: said I want therapy. So this show where you felt
Speaker 3: like you were hyper sexualized when you were talking about sports.
Speaker 3: What year was that, Uh, probably two thousand and five
Speaker 3: because I remember also kind of becoming an on camera
Speaker 3: personality around that time, and it was a different time
Speaker 3: then that was really accepted, and that was a way
Speaker 3: that you could get a footthold in the industry was
Speaker 3: if you did kind of like a sexier spin on content.
Speaker 1: All the women in my business from that time remember that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we always had to be like, I'm a guys girl.
Speaker 1: Most of my best friends are like, the only way
Speaker 1: to be accepted in sports was essential to be like,
Speaker 1: don't worry, I'm not actually a woman. I'm just a
Speaker 1: hot chick who's a dude inside. And like, I talk
Speaker 1: about that a lot when it comes to the evolution
Speaker 1: of women's sports. Yeah, because we don't have to apologize
Speaker 1: for being different. It's part of the authenticity that people enjoy.
Speaker 1: And when we stopped having to pretend like we were
Speaker 1: just like the guys, but you know, women, we got
Speaker 1: to be funnier and more comfortable and villains and heroes
Speaker 1: and masculine and feminine and queer and straight and all
Speaker 1: the multi dimensional things that we let male sports athletes
Speaker 1: and media be. And it was so restrictive and limiting
Speaker 1: that it wasn't enjoyable. And then we open up the
Speaker 1: door to let it be free, and it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: this works.
Speaker 3: And you hinted at this. But there are even expectations
Speaker 3: around what a funny woman looks like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, or what whether women should be funny, whether women
Speaker 1: are funny exactly, famous articles from Christopher Hitchins why women
Speaker 1: aren't funny, And there's a lot of studies of if
Speaker 1: a woman is attractive. We don't want you to make
Speaker 1: yourself less attractive in order to be funny. Your number
Speaker 1: one value is your looks, and you're trading on that
Speaker 1: when you become funny. And I have found that restrictive
Speaker 1: at every point in my career. So when I first
Speaker 1: went back to Chicago, I was working for a startup
Speaker 1: website and I brought a ton of my improv stuff
Speaker 1: to it, and I was just having fun with player
Speaker 1: personalities and bringing some creativity to it. And it was
Speaker 1: very hard to make sure that like, I'm being funny,
Speaker 1: but never in any way that could be misconstrued as sexual,
Speaker 1: because people are already pushing all their opinions and their
Speaker 1: feelings of sexuality onto you at every turn, and so
Speaker 1: at every turn you're constantly like kind of trying to
Speaker 1: look ahead and be like, oh, what's someone going to
Speaker 1: say about this, or how are they going to perceive this?
Speaker 1: And I was blindsided a million times by something I
Speaker 1: did or said that somehow somebody made sexual when that
Speaker 1: wasn't my intention, and it really prevents you from being
Speaker 1: creative in so many ways.
Speaker 3: I was also blindsided by this perception that you can't
Speaker 3: be smart and funny at the same time, like I
Speaker 3: experienced this in my career as a news journalist. It's
Speaker 3: like people are just incapable of holding space for women
Speaker 3: to be more than one thing. And this is something
Speaker 3: that I'm saying, the drum about just embracing our multitudes.
Speaker 1: Couldn't be more true. I used to talk about this
Speaker 1: all the time. It was the idea of, like, we
Speaker 1: have to put you in one box. Either you're the
Speaker 1: hot girl, or you're the funny girl, or you're the
Speaker 1: smart girl. And I found that early in my career too,
Speaker 1: because I was doing like radio updates that were sort
Speaker 1: of light and fun. And then I started working for
Speaker 1: espnW and I was covering everything from silly stuff to
Speaker 1: very serious stories about domestic violence and sexual assault. And
Speaker 1: I knew how to be in different places as different
Speaker 1: versions of myself and to bring the right approach and attitude.
Speaker 2: But not everyone else did.
Speaker 1: And I think for women especially, there is this feeling
Speaker 1: of we cannot view you as anything other than what
Speaker 1: we decided you are. And your point about especially attractive women,
Speaker 1: I think of someone like George Clooney's wife, or Michelle Obama,
Speaker 1: or like people who are so unbelievably impressive and instead
Speaker 1: it's like, but she looks great in that dress or
Speaker 1: nice arms.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's never ending, So I think you just have
Speaker 3: to tune it out and do you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like the Nike ad says you can't win, so
Speaker 1: just win, So just win.
Speaker 3: Well, I want to get into the ESPN chapter of
Speaker 3: your career, and it starts in this unexpected way because
Speaker 3: I hear that you initially auditioned for ESPN and didn't
Speaker 3: get the job right away. I love stories like this.
Speaker 3: Can you tell me what happened next?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: So I was living in la at the time, flew
Speaker 1: out for the audition, didn't get the job, and I
Speaker 1: was wanting to take the next step in my sports career.
Speaker 1: Got a job at Fox Sports Net this is precursor
Speaker 1: to FS one, and was working behind the scenes, but
Speaker 1: started doing those little fantasy show started writing for blogs
Speaker 1: for free just to get some content up, and started
Speaker 1: taking auditions and meetings, and I flew back to Chicago.
Speaker 1: I took two weeks off to see if do I
Speaker 1: want to try to work in Chicago where I know
Speaker 1: the team's best because that's where I grew up. And
Speaker 1: a friend of mine had a connection at a startup
Speaker 1: website I ended up moving back to Chicago to work
Speaker 1: for that place, Mouthpiece Sports, and it was from there
Speaker 1: that I eventually got started at local ESPN radio, added
Speaker 1: on writing for espnW, working for espnW and then national
Speaker 1: radio around the Horn Sports Center. You say to all
Speaker 1: the other stuff.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so just like hustling your way in there, getting
Speaker 3: a foot in the door.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So you were there for about fifteen years, right, Yeah,
Speaker 3: I think I'm close to fifteen ish. Yeah, and you're
Speaker 3: still you're still working with ESPN, just in a reduced capacity.
Speaker 1: Yep, working with the espnW, so just focused on the
Speaker 1: women's sports stuff, hosting a lot of their conferences and stuff.
Speaker 3: So I'm thinking back to when you gain a foothold
Speaker 3: inside an esteemed institution like that, there are moments that
Speaker 3: remind you that all of your hard work was worth it.
Speaker 3: And I can remember jumping from local news to national
Speaker 3: news and finally having a fancy coffee machine at the
Speaker 3: office and being like, oh, I've really made it. Like
Speaker 3: they're paying for my coffee now. This is this is
Speaker 3: the best. What are the pinchbe moments that you still
Speaker 3: think about from your time there.
Speaker 1: Oh, there's a couple. So one was I just wanted
Speaker 1: to write on my tax forms sports reporter as my
Speaker 1: job instead of you know, like a bunch of other
Speaker 1: things or like waitress because that's where most of the
Speaker 1: money was coming from. Like, yeah, I was really excited
Speaker 1: when I could just put journalists as my occupation. Another
Speaker 1: one was my very first job, which now that I
Speaker 1: think about it's really not a huge deal, but at
Speaker 1: the time it felt like such a big deal was
Speaker 1: the update anchor at ESPN one thousand, which is ESPN Radio,
Speaker 1: and so every fifteen to thirty minutes, I would hop
Speaker 1: on and be like, hello and welcome to your Sports
Speaker 1: Center Update.
Speaker 2: I'm Sarah Spain.
Speaker 1: Tonight the Chicago Cubs take on the Cincinnati Reds at
Speaker 1: seven pm Easter But the thing that made me like
Speaker 1: go crazy was the Sports Center music would play before
Speaker 1: I started, so it'd go.
Speaker 2: Da da da da da.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is Sarah Spain with your sports and I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, my god, it's basically like I'm on
Speaker 1: Sports Center, which it wasn't, but it felt like it.
Speaker 1: And to be associated with the brand of ESPN in
Speaker 1: any way, I was like, oh, I'm doing it. And
Speaker 1: then you know, I always called Jamel Hill my fairy
Speaker 1: career godmother. And there were a couple great mentors that
Speaker 1: I've had along the way, but she in particular. I
Speaker 1: was at an espnW summit, which is these three day conferences.
Speaker 1: I was a total nobody. I was not involved in
Speaker 1: the programming hardly at all. But I had one thing
Speaker 1: that I did on stage and Jamel said, you know,
Speaker 1: you're really great on stage.
Speaker 2: You should be doing TV. Why aren't you doing TV?
Speaker 1: And I said, well, back at home in Chicago, I
Speaker 1: did like a local show, but I haven't done much
Speaker 1: for ESPN. I've done one or two sports center hits
Speaker 1: and that's it for the Blackhawks.
Speaker 2: And I think they're just not ready. They haven't seen
Speaker 2: enough tape.
Speaker 1: And she said, well, next time i'm off with my show,
Speaker 1: I'm going to suggest that you host. And I was like, okay, sure,
Speaker 1: And then about a month or two later they gave
Speaker 1: me the call. I flew out to Bristol. I hosted
Speaker 1: a live hour show with Michael Smith. Used to be
Speaker 1: called Numbers never Lye and then became His and Hers.
Speaker 1: And within that one show, Keith Oberman show calls me
Speaker 1: outid the lines calls me. I just had to prove myself,
Speaker 1: and so that pinched me moment of like somebody saw
Speaker 1: me and thought I could do this and then put
Speaker 1: me on the air, and I did.
Speaker 2: I did a whole live national TV show.
Speaker 1: I was like, I can do this, And so I
Speaker 1: always think about Jamel and try to think about how
Speaker 1: I can be that person for other people.
Speaker 3: That is really really cool. It's so great to hear that,
Speaker 3: and clearly Jamel is a girl's girl like that. That's
Speaker 3: very meaningful when another woman stands in the gap for
Speaker 3: you like that. Yeah, were there moments in during those
Speaker 3: years where you were getting closer and getting closer where
Speaker 3: you ever questioned what you were doing and felt like
Speaker 3: giving up.
Speaker 2: Not in the sports world.
Speaker 1: I did feel that way about comedy and acting, particularly
Speaker 1: because I did not really enjoy the scene. And you
Speaker 1: hear about the casting couch, and it's very true, and
Speaker 1: unfortunately the sports world is not a fix for that.
Speaker 1: I was the victim of harassment on multiple occasions in
Speaker 1: the sports world too, But it felt like there was
Speaker 1: a more objective way to succeed, like if you know
Speaker 1: your stuff, if you get really good at it, you
Speaker 1: can succeed in spite of those people. And so I
Speaker 1: think with the acting in comedy, I never felt like
Speaker 1: I really was cooking with gas. And then when I
Speaker 1: started in the sports world, it felt so natural and
Speaker 1: it felt like, Oh, you're good at this, this is
Speaker 1: where you should be. And so I never really lost
Speaker 1: hope or had enough of a drought in that to
Speaker 1: think like, oh, this isn't going to work.
Speaker 3: Okay, So you're at ESPN for a while and then
Speaker 3: eventually it sounds like something kind of shifted within you,
Speaker 3: and I'm curious how you decided to give yourself permission
Speaker 3: to distance yourself from that original vision of your dream
Speaker 3: job and dream a bit differently.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was. It was a little bit of choice
Speaker 1: and a lot of a shove.
Speaker 2: Actually.
Speaker 1: So I had been doing national radio and some capacity
Speaker 1: for thirteen years, from updates to hosting, and for seven
Speaker 1: straight years I was doing nighttime national radio, and I
Speaker 1: took a ton of pride in being a woman who
Speaker 1: was on the slate which didn't exist other than me
Speaker 1: in representing for women in that way.
Speaker 2: But it was feeling less satisfying.
Speaker 1: It was feeling super ephemeral to get on the air
Speaker 1: every night for two to three hours and have whatever
Speaker 1: I said float away and usually be the biggest hits
Speaker 1: of the day. We certainly, throughout the various iterations of
Speaker 1: my shows, tried to talk about other things, meaningful things,
Speaker 1: women's sports, social issues like I really tried to make
Speaker 1: the show a lot more than just playing the hits.
Speaker 1: But I understood that there were limitations for that medium
Speaker 1: in that space, and I had other projects that when
Speaker 1: I did them and I put my time and effort
Speaker 1: into them, I saw a lot of success with whether
Speaker 1: that was the E sixty and the feature reporting I
Speaker 1: did for Runs in the Family the First Time, or
Speaker 1: a PSA I did called More Than Mean that ended
Speaker 1: up winning a bunch of awards, including a Peabody, And
Speaker 1: it felt like as long as I had radio every
Speaker 1: single night, it was really going to prevent me from
Speaker 1: spending time on things and making them great.
Speaker 2: Part of radio that's great is it is immediate.
Speaker 1: You get your feedback right away, there's a community, you
Speaker 1: have time to talk. But it's an imperfect science because
Speaker 1: it's off the top of your head. When you really
Speaker 1: take your time with a feature, you can edit and
Speaker 1: turn it into the piece that you want. And I
Speaker 1: wanted a little bit more of that, so I had
Speaker 1: been talking to the radio side about trying to get
Speaker 1: out of radio and figure out to do more of
Speaker 1: the other stuff, and a particular executive there decided he
Speaker 1: was just going to have me be gone altogether.
Speaker 2: And so after thirteen years, with two weeks notice.
Speaker 1: After they hadn't responded to a lot of calls from
Speaker 1: my agent, he told me they were just not going
Speaker 1: to resign me. And after our meeting, he said he
Speaker 1: had spoken to them and there wasn't a lot of
Speaker 1: interest in keeping me because he said, oh, without the radio,
Speaker 1: you don't have much.
Speaker 2: I said, I have E.
Speaker 1: Sixties SportsCenter, my podcast, writing espnW, all these shows that
Speaker 1: asked me to do more, and I haven't had time
Speaker 1: to do more. I was filling it at ESPN Daily
Speaker 1: and some other stuff. And he said, oh yeah, I
Speaker 1: called around. There wasn't a lot of interest, I said,
Speaker 1: So I called my bosses.
Speaker 2: How is your call with him? They said, what call?
Speaker 1: I said, That's what I thought, So just you know,
Speaker 1: I'm not being resigned, and they were furious, and they
Speaker 1: worked to find a position for me at the company
Speaker 1: outside of his department, But because he oversaw so much
Speaker 1: of what I worked on, it really limited.
Speaker 2: What I could do.
Speaker 1: So it was a shove that was completely unexpected, and
Speaker 1: I think I was very grateful that I had been
Speaker 1: hosting a podcast for years, talking to people at times
Speaker 1: about their worst times or their unexpected moments much more
Speaker 1: severe than me being pushed out of a job that
Speaker 1: I still really liked. It was people who suffered catastrophic injuries,
Speaker 1: people who lost loved ones, people who are outright fired
Speaker 1: and had no idea what to do next. And I
Speaker 1: remember in those moments, while interviewing them, I would ask myself,
Speaker 1: how would you react to this? And my very honest
Speaker 1: answer to myself was terribly. You have been through nothing.
Speaker 1: Your life has been privileged. You have been so lucky
Speaker 1: in every way, and a lot of that is good
Speaker 1: choices you've made and working hard and being kind, but
Speaker 1: a lot of it is just luck and the privilege
Speaker 1: of mental health from your family and a great upbringing.
Speaker 1: And so time to start thinking about how you will react,
Speaker 1: because it's not going to be this perfect forever. Something
Speaker 1: will happen. And it wasn't cynical, and I wasn't waiting
Speaker 1: for the other shoe to drop. It just afforded me
Speaker 1: the opportunity to think about if something were to change
Speaker 1: in this idyllic life I had made, what would I
Speaker 1: do about it? And so when that happened, I gave
Speaker 1: myself a couple of days to be angry and sad
Speaker 1: and feel sorry for myself and scared about what was
Speaker 1: coming next, because ESPN is the top of the mountain.
Speaker 1: And then not only did I fight to make sure
Speaker 1: I got to go out a little bit more on
Speaker 1: my own, on my own terms by working for another
Speaker 1: year in a handful of capacities. And now the last
Speaker 1: couple of year or two has been just espnW, where
Speaker 1: I'm still working with people I love working with about
Speaker 1: something I care about. But I also took that time
Speaker 1: to look at what I wanted and why I was
Speaker 1: moving away from radio, what was going to be satisfying.
Speaker 1: I think I had always wanted to do a lot
Speaker 1: of intersection of sports and social issues because it felt
Speaker 1: a little absurd to make a lot of money and
Speaker 1: have a job where I'm just talking about people playing games.
Speaker 1: It made me feel guilty almost that people who do good,
Speaker 1: meaningful work are working harder, or making less money or
Speaker 1: living a less privileged life than someone who's just like
Speaker 1: going on TV and being like hell of a dunk.
Speaker 1: So I always tried to find ways to make it
Speaker 1: feel more meaningful. And when this happened, I sat down
Speaker 1: and thought, what do I actually want to spend my
Speaker 1: time on?
Speaker 2: And I knew it was women's sports.
Speaker 1: How can I use the career I built and the
Speaker 1: influence I have on something that feels metior and more
Speaker 1: meaningful and more genuine to something I've cared about my
Speaker 1: whole career and tried to intersect with my whole career.
Speaker 1: And so, yeah, I got a shove. I'm doing awesome
Speaker 1: things ever since that shove. I would never lie and
Speaker 1: say that I wouldn't have been perfectly happy if they'd
Speaker 1: let me stay on that path. I think I would have,
Speaker 1: But things are different at ESPN now too, and looking
Speaker 1: at it from a farm, I'm not sure how happy
Speaker 1: i'd be if I was there full time.
Speaker 3: I so respect the transparency with which she told that story,
Speaker 3: because that's that is not easy to be. It is
Speaker 3: not a small thing to be pushed out of a
Speaker 3: dream job, and I'm sure it was extremely painful. So
Speaker 3: I just really appreciate your vulnerability around sharing that story.
Speaker 1: You've got to be honest It's not that I was
Speaker 1: dishonest when it first happened. I just was more vague
Speaker 1: because I was really embarrassed. Like I talked about before,
Speaker 1: I'm like terrified of failure. It felt like a failure.
Speaker 1: I'd never had that before. Yeah, And I was so glad.
Speaker 1: I had talked to so many successful people who had
Speaker 1: had failures or who had been let go or who
Speaker 1: had had things that go their way, so I could
Speaker 1: not have it be a referendum on me, And frankly,
Speaker 1: I knew it wasn't.
Speaker 2: I was crushing my work.
Speaker 1: My bosses were so angry that this executive had made
Speaker 1: this decision.
Speaker 2: It was not about me.
Speaker 1: And still I could figure out how to learn from
Speaker 1: it and pivot and figure out what was next in
Speaker 1: a positive way, and try to figure out, like, because
Speaker 1: I'm a creature habit and I don't like change because
Speaker 1: of the whole control thing, how can I use this
Speaker 1: shove as an organic way to move into something new
Speaker 1: and something like the book that I've always wanted to
Speaker 1: do and never had time for because I had a
Speaker 1: million jobs at ESPN. How do I stop procrastinating on
Speaker 1: something I've said I always want to do and just
Speaker 1: like do it use the time to do it, and
Speaker 1: so that's what I did.
Speaker 3: Well, that's actually what I wanted to ask you next.
Speaker 3: Do you think that you would have had the courage
Speaker 3: to launch your podcast Good Game with Sarah Spain if
Speaker 3: you hadn't been shoved out.
Speaker 1: It's certainly one of many nudges I'm getting from the
Speaker 1: universe about taking bigger swings and being less afraid to fail.
Speaker 1: So as far as the podcast goes, I pitched multiple
Speaker 1: women's sports things to ESPN over the course of my
Speaker 1: fifteen years. Sometimes they even got all the way to
Speaker 1: looking at the budget. How many people would you need
Speaker 1: on staff all that stuff. I brought sponsors to the
Speaker 1: table that were ready to work on it, and it
Speaker 1: just hasn't been a priority for them. And I don't
Speaker 1: know if I would get fed up eventually and leave
Speaker 1: to do it, or if I would have just been
Speaker 1: happy bringing women's sports into as many spaces as I
Speaker 1: was because it was scary and I'm still scared of
Speaker 1: those leaps, So I don't know if I would have
Speaker 1: done that. As for the book, when we did the
Speaker 1: story for E sixty and the written piece, movie and book,
Speaker 1: people came running when it went viral, and we thought
Speaker 1: we'd do the movie first and then the book, and
Speaker 1: then also the publisher that came was fine. The main
Speaker 1: one that came was fine, but it wasn't a huge advance,
Speaker 1: and we thought, let's do the movie first, and then
Speaker 1: we'll put the stars of the movie on the book cover.
Speaker 1: The book will be bigger, all that stuff. And then
Speaker 1: we were pitching the movie during COVID and then during
Speaker 1: the strike. So we've sort of been on hold with
Speaker 1: the movie for the last four years or so, and
Speaker 1: now we're going to re up the pitches with the book.
Speaker 1: But I have to tell this quick story. So my
Speaker 1: husband and I were in New York at this time.
Speaker 2: I was just out.
Speaker 1: We had renegotiated an extra three months of my contract
Speaker 1: because I was hosting an event. I was interviewing the
Speaker 1: president of the company, like I had all these jobs
Speaker 1: that the executive didn't even ask about before he tried
Speaker 1: to kick me to the curb, and we were like, oh,
Speaker 1: do you want me to stick around to host this
Speaker 1: giant conference and interviewed the president of the company, and
Speaker 1: or oh you do okay? Cool, Well, maybe if you'd
Speaker 1: passed around at all, you would know, I'm sort of
Speaker 1: booked and busy.
Speaker 2: For your company.
Speaker 1: But so I had this couple months that was sort
Speaker 1: of like dead weight. I knew I was out, but
Speaker 1: I was working. And my husband and I went to
Speaker 1: the US Women's National Team Players Association ball in New York,
Speaker 1: and we were walking around that day before the event,
Speaker 1: and we walked by the New York Public Library and
Speaker 1: everyone raves about how it's got these big, beautiful, fancy rooms.
Speaker 2: So we're like, oh, let's pop our heads in.
Speaker 1: And we looked into one room and people were diligently
Speaker 1: working away in their computers, and I said, oh, I
Speaker 1: really missed that, and he's like what, I'm like, I
Speaker 1: miss like having a big project. We're just like right
Speaker 1: in all day, sitting with your coffee, like you know.
Speaker 1: And he's like, that's crazy. I went to the bathroom.
Speaker 1: I checked my phone walking out of the bathroom, and
Speaker 1: I see an email from my agent at CAA that says,
Speaker 1: the woman who really wanted your book has left for
Speaker 1: Simon and Schuster and came back around and wanted to
Speaker 1: revisit the idea of writing it. And I said that
Speaker 1: to my husband and he's like, there you go.
Speaker 2: I'm like what.
Speaker 1: He's like, there's your project, And I was like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, is that what manifesting is? You just like
Speaker 1: go take a whiz and come back and the universe
Speaker 1: gives you exactly what you said you wanted within like
Speaker 1: five minutes.
Speaker 3: Are you sure that's how it goes?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah.
Speaker 1: And so, first of all, I did not have time
Speaker 1: to write a book before. But also it was like, hey,
Speaker 1: you are asking the universe for what's next. You are
Speaker 1: asking what will feel valuable and meaningful to you. You're
Speaker 1: asking what will be satisfying, and you have always wanted
Speaker 1: to do this, and this is a project that's right
Speaker 1: in your lap. And so I really couldn't even be
Speaker 1: afraid of failing. I couldn't even be like, oh, I'm
Speaker 1: not going to do that.
Speaker 2: It was just I had to do it.
Speaker 3: Well, let's talk a little bit about your podcast. But
Speaker 3: first a quick break. Your podcast, Good Game with Sarah
Speaker 3: Spain is the very first daily women's sports podcast. I mean,
Speaker 3: that's huge. You've also you've won awards from iHeartRadio for
Speaker 3: social impact for this show, and you've really taken listeners
Speaker 3: along for the ride. As we've seen this surge of
Speaker 3: engagement and investment in women's sports. What's one moment from
Speaker 3: building good game that made you stop and say, yeah,
Speaker 3: this is why we did it.
Speaker 2: Well, that's tough. We interview so many people.
Speaker 1: This show has been so awesome to have the green
Speaker 1: light and the support and the funding and the interest
Speaker 1: to have a daily women's sports show that they've sent
Speaker 1: me to Spain, the NWSL finals, south By Southwest, the
Speaker 1: super Bowl, the Final four, all Star weekend, and putting
Speaker 1: the money in interest and effort behind the details in
Speaker 1: women's sports, because I really think that's all we've been missing,
Speaker 1: is giving people enough information to care. Like we do
Speaker 1: such a good job in men's sports of telling you
Speaker 1: what everybody fricking ate for lunch, and then in women's sports,
Speaker 1: it's like here's a highlight, all right, see you later.
Speaker 2: So I knew we needed to give people the.
Speaker 1: Stories and stakes and stats and stars that they could
Speaker 1: know enough to want to come watch. And I think
Speaker 1: the biggest through line across the former athletes that we've
Speaker 1: had on the show, because we have everybody from media
Speaker 1: to athletes, to executives to sponsors, but the athletes is
Speaker 1: especially they're retired ones. They say I just wish there
Speaker 1: was more of a connection between owners in front office
Speaker 1: and the athletes, because the pyramid in men's sports very
Speaker 1: clearly puts the men at the top. They are the product,
Speaker 1: they are the value, they are the stars, they are
Speaker 1: served and catered to, and they are the product that
Speaker 1: makes everyone below in the pyramid money. And on the
Speaker 1: women's side, it is still in some ways set up
Speaker 1: where the players are somewhere in the middle and they
Speaker 1: are not listened to and respected, and they aren't treated
Speaker 1: the right way, and they aren't.
Speaker 2: Rewarded in the right way.
Speaker 1: And it's not just monetarily, but in the setup of
Speaker 1: their leagues, in the response to what they're looking for
Speaker 1: and the way that they want to be coached and
Speaker 1: served and led. And so I love hearing from former
Speaker 1: players who are getting into ownership or front office roles
Speaker 1: and helping connect those two sides.
Speaker 2: So we are.
Speaker 3: Launching a new season of our show, The bright Side.
Speaker 3: So the concept of new beginnings is on my mind.
Speaker 3: What are three Sarah Spain truths or beliefs that have
Speaker 3: gotten you through new beginnings?
Speaker 2: That's an interesting one.
Speaker 1: Trust myself, I have always had a pretty innate surity
Speaker 1: that I can trust myself, my gut, instinct, my beliefs,
Speaker 1: my priorities, my principles. So I'm always thinking whatever new
Speaker 1: thing I'm embarking on to consider and always center in
Speaker 1: myself and just trusting that I'll do what's right. Try
Speaker 1: to be kind to myself and to others, but especially
Speaker 1: in our business. It's remarkable how someone I met twenty
Speaker 1: five years ago is back around in some job or
Speaker 1: some office or some whatever. And I'm grateful and thankful
Speaker 1: that I'm always someone who's going to lead with kindness
Speaker 1: and hype other people up and want everyone to succeed.
Speaker 1: I've never been someone who wants to compete in life.
Speaker 2: It's interesting.
Speaker 1: I'm the most competitive human alive when it comes to
Speaker 1: like games or sports, but when it comes to supporting
Speaker 1: other people, and I just want everyone to like crush
Speaker 1: it and shine and be awesome. And I love when
Speaker 1: other people hype me, So I hype other people. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm very aware of what makes me feel good, and
Speaker 1: I try to do that for other people. So be kind,
Speaker 1: trust my gut, trust myself, and oh I think for
Speaker 1: me balance. I will work twenty four hours a day
Speaker 1: if I do not schedule fun. I am not a
Speaker 1: good relaxer because I feel guilty sometimes when I'm relaxing
Speaker 1: about how I could be being productive. So the best
Speaker 1: thing for me is to be as ambitious about my
Speaker 1: social life as I am about my work life. And
Speaker 1: it comes very naturally. That's what I want to do anyway.
Speaker 1: But if I have a dinner on the books or
Speaker 1: concert or I throw a lot of costume parties with
Speaker 1: my friends, like it gives me some outlet other than
Speaker 1: work to put my energy, and I always make sure
Speaker 1: there's that balance. Sometimes my friends like, why don't you
Speaker 1: just cancel, go home and sleep, And I'm like, no,
Speaker 1: if I cancel, I'll feel like I chose work over this,
Speaker 1: and I don't want to make that choice.
Speaker 2: I just want to do all of it.
Speaker 3: Are we a little bit of a party animal, Sarah?
Speaker 3: I'm a retired party animal myself.
Speaker 1: It's like not partying, it's like socializing, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. Like my husband and I have a lot
Speaker 1: of friends across the country, and when we go somewhere,
Speaker 1: we seek all of them out.
Speaker 2: Like I just went to La for an Angel City game.
Speaker 1: Told a bunch of my friends from when I lived there,
Speaker 1: and friends from work that I was going to be there,
Speaker 1: picked a place and I had like seventeen friends who
Speaker 1: came to eat pizza and have beer with me on
Speaker 1: a random Thursday, Like cause I keep those connections up
Speaker 1: because it's really important to me to keep those connections up.
Speaker 2: That's so me.
Speaker 3: I so relate to this.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So it's like our version of partying is now just
Speaker 1: like packing our day with good one on one or
Speaker 1: group time.
Speaker 3: It's grown in sexy partying. For me, I can't agree
Speaker 3: you will you will not catch me? I mean, I
Speaker 3: don't have time to be hungover. No, so I got
Speaker 3: to pack my battles. Yeah, totally, Okay. Finally, Sarah, what
Speaker 3: is one area of your life where you're currently experiencing
Speaker 3: the bright side or what's one area of your life
Speaker 3: where you're looking for the bright side.
Speaker 1: I would say my optimism is a gift almost all
Speaker 1: the time. I'm incredibly grateful, naturally for everything.
Speaker 2: I didn't even drink till I was a junior in
Speaker 2: college because I was like, why would I need to drink?
Speaker 1: We get sunsets and dolphins and music and like the
Speaker 1: world is the best place life.
Speaker 2: That's right. And then like later in life.
Speaker 1: That was part of what I was talking about earlier
Speaker 1: is starting to try to understand why the people are
Speaker 1: the way they are and being like, oh, I get
Speaker 1: why someone wants to escape or why someone doesn't think
Speaker 1: every day is a gift because people have it hard,
Speaker 1: and like, don't be judging about that. Don't pat yourself
Speaker 1: on the back for having it so easy. Start to
Speaker 1: try to understand other people. But right now, my optimism,
Speaker 1: I think is is at odds with my desire to
Speaker 1: be informed, and my control issues are getting in the
Speaker 1: way because I feel helpless. Yeah, and my response to
Speaker 1: every problem is let me fix that.
Speaker 3: But this is not something I can fix exactly. It's
Speaker 3: hard to be the fix it person when you can't.
Speaker 2: Yet, And I don't want to bury my head because
Speaker 2: I'm privileged.
Speaker 3: We'll just know that the work that you're doing is useful,
Speaker 3: so don't forget that.
Speaker 1: There's the bright side. Is at least it feels like
Speaker 1: I'm doing good stuff every day.
Speaker 3: Yeah, one hundred percent. Well, Sarah Spain, thank you so
Speaker 3: much for bringing your multitudes and your life FOMO to
Speaker 3: the bright side. It certainly made it bright.
Speaker 2: I really enjoyed it. Thanks. That's it. For this week.
Speaker 3: Join the conversation with us on social media at Hello
Speaker 3: Sunshine on ig and feel free to hit me up
Speaker 3: at some own voice. Listen and follow The bright Side
Speaker 3: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get
Speaker 3: your podcasts, and as always, keep looking on the bright side, y'all.
Speaker 3: The bright Side is a production of Hello Sunshine and
Speaker 3: iHeart Podcasts and is executive produced by Reese Witherspoon and
Speaker 3: me Simone Boyce. Production is by Acast Creative Studios. Our
Speaker 3: producers are Taylor Williamson, Adrian Bain, and Darby Masters. Our
Speaker 3: production assistant is Joya putnoy A. Cast Executive producers are
Speaker 3: Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder. Maureen Polo and Reese Witherspoon
Speaker 3: are the executive producers for Hello Sunshine. Ali Perry is
Speaker 3: the executive producer for iHeart Podcasts. Tim Pealazola is our showrunner.
Speaker 3: Our theme song is by Anna Stump and Hamilton Lighthouser.