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Speaker 1: Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're sitting

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Speaker 1: by the pool with our feed up, enjoying the first

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Speaker 1: day of our break.

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Speaker 2: But we couldn't leave you with that a little something

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Speaker 2: to listen to.

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Speaker 1: It's Monday, June thirtieth, and on today's show, we're bringing

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Speaker 1: you my recent appearance on an episode of the Hello

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Speaker 1: Sunshine podcast The bright Side, hosted by Simone Voice. I

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Speaker 1: had the opportunity to hop on with Simone back in

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Speaker 1: May and talk about why being pushed out of your

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Speaker 1: quote unquote dream job isn't the end, what it means

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Speaker 1: to be a woman who contains multitudes and a world

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Speaker 1: that wants you to shrink, chasing big dreams, creating lasting

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Speaker 1: change in women's sports, and the power of owning every

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Speaker 1: part of your story. I really love this conversation with Simone,

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Speaker 1: and I think you all will too.

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Speaker 2: That episode of The bright Side is coming up right

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Speaker 2: after this.

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Speaker 3: Okay, y'all, it is time to get this episode started.

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Speaker 3: We told you we put a lot of thought into

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Speaker 3: how we wanted to kick off this new season, and

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Speaker 3: we've been really intentional about who would set the time

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Speaker 3: for the kinds of conversations that we want to have

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Speaker 3: together And I told you, I told you I wanted

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Speaker 3: to go deeper with you this season, and we're doing

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Speaker 3: that today with someone who embodies main character energy. And

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Speaker 3: I'm not talking about the overused trendy way, No, I'm

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Speaker 3: talking about somebody who takes big swings, who wipes out

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Speaker 3: and still finds the audacity to get back up. Someone

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Speaker 3: who has stared down rejection, fear of failure, and that

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Speaker 3: relentless inner critic and chose to trust yourself anyway. Someone

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Speaker 3: who refuses to shrink or let the world put her

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Speaker 3: in a box. Someone like Sarah Spain. You probably know

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Speaker 3: Sarah from ESPN, from her razor sharp commentary on sports

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Speaker 3: and culture, or maybe just from being one of the

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Speaker 3: smartest voices in the media game right now. She's been

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Speaker 3: a fixture at ESPN for over a decade, across platforms

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Speaker 3: like Around the Horn, Highly Questionable, and Spain and Fits.

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Speaker 3: She's also an Emmy winner and a Peabody winner. Okay,

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Speaker 3: a longtime advocate for women in sports and equity and media,

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Speaker 3: which is one of the reasons why she created Good

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Speaker 3: Game with Sarah Spain, the first daily podcast dedicated to

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Speaker 3: women's sports and most recently, she's the author of the

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Speaker 3: new book Runs in the Family, which follows the real

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Speaker 3: life story of Delan McCullough, a father of four and

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Speaker 3: accomplished football coach whose world gets turned upside down when

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Speaker 3: he learns the truth about his family history. Y'all, I

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Speaker 3: knew going into this conversation that Sarah and I were

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Speaker 3: going to have a few things in common. I personally

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Speaker 3: know what it's like to climb through the ranks of

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Speaker 3: the media industry only to be met with constant rejection,

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Speaker 3: and also confronting the reality that there are going to

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Speaker 3: be suits and gatekeepers at every turn who want to

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Speaker 3: keep you in a box and make you stay in

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Speaker 3: your lane. But what I didn't expect was how candid

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Speaker 3: Sarah was about her setbacks and low points, and that

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Speaker 3: honesty was so liberating. It was so refreshing to hear,

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Speaker 3: and it really inspired me not to fear those moments,

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Speaker 3: but to embrace the freedom that comes on the other side.

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Speaker 3: All Right, it's time to hype up the ultimate hype woman.

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Speaker 3: Here's my conversation with Sarah Spain. Sarah Spain, Welcome to

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Speaker 3: the bright Side.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 3: Congratulations on your book Runs in the family. You got

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Speaker 3: the most epic co sign from our very own Reese

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Speaker 3: Witherspoon on your story that this book is based on.

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Speaker 3: And here's what Rees said. Okay, she said, quote had

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Speaker 3: me in tears. It made me believe in fate, the

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Speaker 3: power of family and divine intervention. And this is the

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Speaker 3: best part. You know, this is the best part, she said.

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Speaker 3: It's so well written. I mean, you can't ask for

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Speaker 3: more than that.

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Speaker 2: She wrote about it on every platform.

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Speaker 1: She posted on Instagram, Twitter, like LinkedIn, wherever, Facebook, every

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Speaker 1: single place she posted something so nice when it came out,

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Speaker 1: and it was like, honestly, like my cheeks hurt from smiling.

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, did Reason and I

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Speaker 1: just become best friends. I'm still working on that part,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, and so it was such a nice boost

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Speaker 1: and like really awesome commentary from folks like that when

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Speaker 1: we first did the story for ESPN, where I think

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Speaker 1: a good little boost to get a book along the way.

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Speaker 1: And so now I'm really excited for everyone to read

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Speaker 1: the bigger, more full story.

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Speaker 3: Hey, she is the Queen of books, so I know

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Speaker 3: kind of endorsement does not hurt. What is your superpower

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Speaker 3: as a storyteller, And how do you think it's on

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Speaker 3: display in this book.

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Speaker 2: I would say it's two. I would say one is empathy.

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Speaker 1: I have a real desire to understand why people are

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Speaker 1: the way that they are. And I think as I've

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Speaker 1: gotten older, especially, I've become particularly interested in how people's

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Speaker 1: lives have been different from mine, the pathologies that people

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Speaker 1: get from the family systems in which they grow up,

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Speaker 1: or the interactions that they have with loved ones, friends, lovers, whoever.

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Speaker 1: I think it's a better way to go through life

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Speaker 1: to tell yourself a story about how people got to

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Speaker 1: be who they are instead of just being angry or judgmental.

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Speaker 1: And so, as I get older and I study more

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Speaker 1: about psychology, sociology, all the different things around just kind

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Speaker 1: of why people are who they are, it makes me

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Speaker 1: try to better understand people's choices instead of judging them.

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Speaker 1: And so, particularly in a book like this that has

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Speaker 1: these really complicated ideas of people who are dating, abuse

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Speaker 1: of men, or men with drug problems, people who are

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Speaker 1: struggling to pay the bills or maybe aren't making healthy choices,

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Speaker 1: you can write a book like that and be up

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Speaker 1: high on a hill and say, well, I never struggled

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Speaker 1: with that, so that was a bad choice instead of

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Speaker 1: trying to understand how they got to where they are.

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Speaker 1: So I think the empathy was huge for this one.

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Speaker 1: And then the other one is synthesizing ideas. I use

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Speaker 1: this across all my jobs, podcasting, radio, writing, TV. Essentially,

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Speaker 1: how do I get this thing that I want to

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Speaker 1: say or this thing someone else said and put it

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Speaker 1: into the right words to best express it.

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Speaker 2: And for writing, I think, gosh, I should knock on wood.

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Speaker 1: But I just never got writer's block during the book.

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Speaker 1: And I think part of that is like my brain

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Speaker 1: just naturally wants to take ideas and find a way

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Speaker 1: to make them almost fit a puzzle and get across

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Speaker 1: the themes or the stories nottes that I wanted to

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Speaker 1: make sure we're in there.

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Speaker 2: So I think those two superpowers were super helpful.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll say, and you are the envy of writers

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Speaker 3: everywhere whoever probably ringing their hands experiencing writer's block right now.

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Speaker 2: It probably jinks myself.

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Speaker 3: Speaking of synthesizing, would you just synthesize the story of

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Speaker 3: Runs in the Family for us?

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Speaker 2: So long story short.

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Speaker 1: Dylan McCullough is currently the Running Backs coach for the

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Speaker 1: Las Vegas Raiders. He grew up in Youngstown, Ohio, right

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Speaker 1: after the industrial collapse, so really tough time. There are

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Speaker 1: a lot of people without jobs. Oftentimes he was without

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Speaker 1: electricity or hot water. His family really struggled because his

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Speaker 1: adoptive dad left when he was two, so now he's

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Speaker 1: sort of doubly rejected by father. Figures growing up with

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Speaker 1: a single mom who's trying to make it work for

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Speaker 1: him and his brother Damon. He gets into football, ends

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Speaker 1: up getting recruited by a handful of people, including a

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Speaker 1: Youngstown fellow named Sherman Smith who had made it good

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Speaker 1: at the NFL level, who recruits him to go to

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Speaker 1: Miami of Ohio, breaks a bunch of records, tries to

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Speaker 1: go to the NFL, gets injured, eventually gets into teaching

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Speaker 1: and then coaching, and along the way starts a family.

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Speaker 1: Has four sons. Doesn't know anything about his medical history,

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Speaker 1: doesn't anything of his birth family, but as he gets

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Speaker 1: older with his kids, he decides he's interested, and eventually

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Speaker 1: the laws change. In Pennsylvania, where he was born, he

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Speaker 1: can find his birth certificate, finds his mom within like

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Speaker 1: a day on Facebook. She never got married, never had kids,

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Speaker 1: she's been looking for him, she's so excited to find him.

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Speaker 1: And now forty five years later, he asks, do you

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Speaker 1: know who my dad is? It's not on my birth certificate,

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Speaker 1: and she tells him and it's someone that's been in.

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Speaker 2: His life for almost thirty years.

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Speaker 1: And the dad never knew either because he was never

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Speaker 1: told about the baby. So it's just a really incredible storied,

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Speaker 1: such a feel good story. But also I really wanted

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Speaker 1: to make sure it wasn't just about him. It was

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Speaker 1: a story anybody could find themselves in to try to

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Speaker 1: understand what's passed down via DNA versus, what's passed down

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Speaker 1: via family systems, generational trauma, language and messaging, and how

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Speaker 1: we get to decide what do we want to keep

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Speaker 1: with our family, even backwards to our parents. Is that

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Speaker 1: relationship serving us? Is that choice serving us? Or can

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Speaker 1: we decide to change? And how those are interwoven with

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Speaker 1: the things that were genetically handed that we can't choose.

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Speaker 3: Well, you clearly lead with empathy and curiosity, and I

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Speaker 3: think those are sister traits. They go hand in hand,

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Speaker 3: especially in the field of journalism, and in that field

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Speaker 3: you've worked across radio, television, podcasts, writing, what skill came first,

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Speaker 3: or which one feels most like you at your.

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Speaker 1: Core talking my poor parents, I just yeappen yeah, but professional? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Or since birth? Actually, it took me a little while

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Speaker 2: to start talking, and then once they did, they were like,

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Speaker 2: holy cow.

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Speaker 1: I remember literally, like nine or ten years old, asking

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Speaker 1: my parents if you can get paid to talk for

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Speaker 1: a living, and they were like, no, that's not a job.

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Speaker 2: And I'm like, found one genius.

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Speaker 3: I've been a professional yapper for many years now, and

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Speaker 3: I wish I had had the foresight to just speak

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Speaker 3: it into existence at such a young age. Apparently I

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Speaker 3: manifested it. Look at us now, I know we made

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Speaker 3: it work.

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Speaker 1: But the curiosity aspect too, you know, I've always wanted

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Speaker 1: to do everything, try everything, do everything. I was in

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Speaker 1: band Chorus three, sports Talent show, went to college. I

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Speaker 1: was a heptathlete, which is literally the track event where

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Speaker 1: you don't pick one thing, you do all seven of them.

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Speaker 1: And then in ESPN and in my career podcast, national radio, writing, producing, television,

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Speaker 1: like all the things, and so I think the curiosity

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Speaker 1: to know how to do something and to try it,

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Speaker 1: and then to understand why people are the way they

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Speaker 1: are and get to know them. Those are a part

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Speaker 1: of wanting to be like a journalist and explore stories.

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Speaker 3: What is it about challenging yourself in all these different

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Speaker 3: arenas that thrills you? Like why do you think you

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Speaker 3: do it? And why do you think you go after

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Speaker 3: everything so hard?

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Speaker 1: I have a lot of life fomo. But it's not envy,

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Speaker 1: if that makes a sense. Like I saw an interview

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Speaker 1: with someone the other day and it totally clicked for me,

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Speaker 1: and they said, when I see someone having success at

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Speaker 1: something I think I would.

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Speaker 2: Be great at, I have envy.

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Speaker 1: There are plenty of times when I see people doing

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Speaker 1: great things and I'm just happy for them. But if

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Speaker 1: I'm happy for someone and there's a little bit of

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Speaker 1: envy and means it might be meant for me. And

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Speaker 1: I think that's how I felt growing up watching a

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Speaker 1: lot of stuff like oh I think I could do that,

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Speaker 1: and I think I could do it, well, let me

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Speaker 1: try it. But yeah, I mean I think also, I'm

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Speaker 1: pretty fearless. It's interesting. I feel fearless when I'm in control,

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Speaker 1: and the older I get, the more I recognize that

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Speaker 1: I do have issues with control. The first time I

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Speaker 1: do anything I'm nervous because I'm like, wait, okay, where

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Speaker 1: do I sit? What will the chair look like? Which

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Speaker 1: TV am I looking at? What's this question going to be?

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Speaker 2: Like? How is this?

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Speaker 1: And then after one time that's it. Not nervous again,

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Speaker 1: totally fearless, practically naive. Won't even think about the fact

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Speaker 1: that tons of people are watching it's something terrible could

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Speaker 1: go wrong. It just doesn't phaze me. So I think

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Speaker 1: it's a naive fearlessness with like just a little twinge

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Speaker 1: of needing to, you know, settle in.

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Speaker 3: That was a per self diagnosis that you can tell.

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Speaker 1: Reading a lot of books for this book about like therapy, trauma.

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Speaker 3: And six We've got to take a short break, but

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Speaker 3: more from Sarah after the break and we're back with

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Speaker 3: Sarah Spain. So, considering that you have this zest for

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Speaker 3: life and this life fomo, I want to hear what

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Speaker 3: success looked like to you when you were just starting out.

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Speaker 3: So can you take me back to that overachiever, younger

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Speaker 3: version of yourself who just graduated from Cornell where you

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Speaker 3: were co captain of the track and field team and

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Speaker 3: a HATA athlete. What was baby Sarah chasing at that

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Speaker 3: moment in time.

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Speaker 1: Well, right after Cornell, I was still chasing my first dream,

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Speaker 1: which was most of my life and still you know,

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Speaker 1: in the background even though it's not realistic at this point,

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Speaker 1: which was to be on Saturday Night Live. My dream

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Speaker 1: was to be an actress and comedian and performer. But

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Speaker 1: because I was doing all the sports and all the things,

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Speaker 1: it was always conflicting with like the school play and

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Speaker 1: other things like that. So I took some acting classes

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Speaker 1: at Cornell, I moved home to save up a little money,

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Speaker 1: and then I moved to La worked in a restaurant.

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Speaker 1: Like every stereotype says, did auditions, did acting classes, did

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Speaker 1: the Second City improv Conservatory. And it wasn't until I

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Speaker 1: took a TV hosting boot camp and the teacher had

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Speaker 1: us focus on something that we are an expert on

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Speaker 1: to practice and I was like, my expertise is like literature.

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Speaker 1: I was an English major, so that's not going to

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Speaker 1: be on a show. So I did a fake Chicago

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Speaker 1: Bears show. I just always been a sports fan and

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Speaker 1: an athlete. And the teacher said, oh, you want to

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Speaker 1: work in sports. It's like, no, there's no women in sports.

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Speaker 1: And I want to be funny and the only women

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Speaker 1: are like supermodels on the sidelines, like Aaron Andrews.

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Speaker 2: And she said, well, it just seems natural you could

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Speaker 2: try it.

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Speaker 1: So I took a class in TV sports reporting at

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Speaker 1: Yucilie and I was like, Oh, this is so many things.

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Speaker 1: The writing, the extemporaneous thinking, the interview skills come out

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Speaker 1: of improv my knowledge base.

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Speaker 2: Having been a three sport athlete my whole life.

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Speaker 1: I always think of that when I consider the fact

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Speaker 1: that literally when they say you can see, if you

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Speaker 1: can see it, you can be it.

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Speaker 2: I never saw it.

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Speaker 1: There were no women doing sports in Chicago growing up,

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Speaker 1: and it was just not really considered an option. I

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Speaker 1: think it's a good quality that I have that I

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Speaker 1: don't have grudges and I don't get stuck in any place.

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Speaker 1: But that also means when I look back, I'm sure

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Speaker 1: I have a much rosier view of like what it

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Speaker 1: was like back then. I think I really thought I

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Speaker 1: had something and I was so terrified no one else

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Speaker 1: thought that too.

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Speaker 2: But I was really insecure about what I look like.

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Speaker 1: I've never been as skinny as most of the people

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Speaker 1: on TV, despite being a heptathlete. Like my body type

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Speaker 1: is just not twig, and so I was so worried

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Speaker 1: watching who was making it and thinking, oh, they really

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Speaker 1: just care about what women look like. So my first

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Speaker 1: job was this fantasy football show that was just like

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Speaker 1: those online pop ups that used to pop up when

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Speaker 1: you would go to a sports site back in the

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Speaker 1: wild wild West of like very misogynist sports blogs, and

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Speaker 1: it was like, Hi, I'm your fantasy sports girl Sarah

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Speaker 1: with this week's fantasy football tips, and I had to

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Speaker 1: wear like cleavage tops, and like that was a big break.

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Speaker 1: I was in like Jim Rome's two million dollar studio

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Speaker 1: with ESPN producers, and that was the only way I

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Speaker 1: could get in, was like doing the stereotypical BS sexy stuff.

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Speaker 1: Meanwhile I was trying to do. I was filming my

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Speaker 1: own fake sketches for my hosting reel that were all

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Speaker 1: like comedic and silly and ridiculous, and I think that

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Speaker 1: was I think if you asked young me, I would

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Speaker 1: never dream of a single thing I've accomplished. And that's

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Speaker 1: what I tell myself every time I get an opportunity

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Speaker 1: and I'm scared to take it, is what I have said.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna win it, Emmy or a Peabody, or get

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Speaker 1: to be on TV or do around the Horn, or

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Speaker 1: have my own show, or literally anything I've accomplished.

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Speaker 2: I wish I could say I was that kind of dreamer.

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Speaker 1: I always believed I had something, but I don't think

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Speaker 1: I ever was brave enough.

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Speaker 2: I'm very afraid failure.

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Speaker 1: So if I never say the thing that I want

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Speaker 1: and put it out there, then I never have anyone

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Speaker 1: who could say, you said you wanted this and you

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Speaker 1: didn't get it, you failed.

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Speaker 2: That's so real.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Wait, I have to rewind because there's so much

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Speaker 3: there that I want to unpact, so much that you

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Speaker 3: said I want therapy. So this show where you felt

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Speaker 3: like you were hyper sexualized when you were talking about sports.

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Speaker 3: What year was that, Uh, probably two thousand and five

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Speaker 3: because I remember also kind of becoming an on camera

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Speaker 3: personality around that time, and it was a different time

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Speaker 3: then that was really accepted, and that was a way

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Speaker 3: that you could get a footthold in the industry was

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Speaker 3: if you did kind of like a sexier spin on content.

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Speaker 1: All the women in my business from that time remember that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we always had to be like, I'm a guys girl.

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Speaker 1: Most of my best friends are like, the only way

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Speaker 1: to be accepted in sports was essential to be like,

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Speaker 1: don't worry, I'm not actually a woman. I'm just a

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Speaker 1: hot chick who's a dude inside. And like, I talk

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Speaker 1: about that a lot when it comes to the evolution

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Speaker 1: of women's sports. Yeah, because we don't have to apologize

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Speaker 1: for being different. It's part of the authenticity that people enjoy.

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Speaker 1: And when we stopped having to pretend like we were

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Speaker 1: just like the guys, but you know, women, we got

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Speaker 1: to be funnier and more comfortable and villains and heroes

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Speaker 1: and masculine and feminine and queer and straight and all

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Speaker 1: the multi dimensional things that we let male sports athletes

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Speaker 1: and media be. And it was so restrictive and limiting

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Speaker 1: that it wasn't enjoyable. And then we open up the

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Speaker 1: door to let it be free, and it's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: this works.

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Speaker 3: And you hinted at this. But there are even expectations

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Speaker 3: around what a funny woman looks like.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, or what whether women should be funny, whether women

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Speaker 1: are funny exactly, famous articles from Christopher Hitchins why women

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Speaker 1: aren't funny, And there's a lot of studies of if

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Speaker 1: a woman is attractive. We don't want you to make

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Speaker 1: yourself less attractive in order to be funny. Your number

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Speaker 1: one value is your looks, and you're trading on that

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Speaker 1: when you become funny. And I have found that restrictive

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Speaker 1: at every point in my career. So when I first

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Speaker 1: went back to Chicago, I was working for a startup

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Speaker 1: website and I brought a ton of my improv stuff

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Speaker 1: to it, and I was just having fun with player

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Speaker 1: personalities and bringing some creativity to it. And it was

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Speaker 1: very hard to make sure that like, I'm being funny,

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Speaker 1: but never in any way that could be misconstrued as sexual,

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Speaker 1: because people are already pushing all their opinions and their

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Speaker 1: feelings of sexuality onto you at every turn, and so

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Speaker 1: at every turn you're constantly like kind of trying to

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Speaker 1: look ahead and be like, oh, what's someone going to

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Speaker 1: say about this, or how are they going to perceive this?

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Speaker 1: And I was blindsided a million times by something I

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Speaker 1: did or said that somehow somebody made sexual when that

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Speaker 1: wasn't my intention, and it really prevents you from being

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Speaker 1: creative in so many ways.

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Speaker 3: I was also blindsided by this perception that you can't

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Speaker 3: be smart and funny at the same time, like I

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Speaker 3: experienced this in my career as a news journalist. It's

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Speaker 3: like people are just incapable of holding space for women

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Speaker 3: to be more than one thing. And this is something

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Speaker 3: that I'm saying, the drum about just embracing our multitudes.

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Speaker 1: Couldn't be more true. I used to talk about this

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Speaker 1: all the time. It was the idea of, like, we

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Speaker 1: have to put you in one box. Either you're the

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Speaker 1: hot girl, or you're the funny girl, or you're the

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Speaker 1: smart girl. And I found that early in my career too,

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Speaker 1: because I was doing like radio updates that were sort

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Speaker 1: of light and fun. And then I started working for

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Speaker 1: espnW and I was covering everything from silly stuff to

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Speaker 1: very serious stories about domestic violence and sexual assault. And

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Speaker 1: I knew how to be in different places as different

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Speaker 1: versions of myself and to bring the right approach and attitude.

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Speaker 2: But not everyone else did.

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Speaker 1: And I think for women especially, there is this feeling

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Speaker 1: of we cannot view you as anything other than what

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Speaker 1: we decided you are. And your point about especially attractive women,

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Speaker 1: I think of someone like George Clooney's wife, or Michelle Obama,

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Speaker 1: or like people who are so unbelievably impressive and instead

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Speaker 1: it's like, but she looks great in that dress or

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Speaker 1: nice arms.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's never ending, So I think you just have

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Speaker 3: to tune it out and do you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like the Nike ad says you can't win, so

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Speaker 1: just win, So just win.

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Speaker 3: Well, I want to get into the ESPN chapter of

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Speaker 3: your career, and it starts in this unexpected way because

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Speaker 3: I hear that you initially auditioned for ESPN and didn't

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Speaker 3: get the job right away. I love stories like this.

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Speaker 3: Can you tell me what happened next?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: So I was living in la at the time, flew

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Speaker 1: out for the audition, didn't get the job, and I

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Speaker 1: was wanting to take the next step in my sports career.

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Speaker 1: Got a job at Fox Sports Net this is precursor

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Speaker 1: to FS one, and was working behind the scenes, but

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Speaker 1: started doing those little fantasy show started writing for blogs

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Speaker 1: for free just to get some content up, and started

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Speaker 1: taking auditions and meetings, and I flew back to Chicago.

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Speaker 1: I took two weeks off to see if do I

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Speaker 1: want to try to work in Chicago where I know

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Speaker 1: the team's best because that's where I grew up. And

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Speaker 1: a friend of mine had a connection at a startup

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Speaker 1: website I ended up moving back to Chicago to work

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Speaker 1: for that place, Mouthpiece Sports, and it was from there

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Speaker 1: that I eventually got started at local ESPN radio, added

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Speaker 1: on writing for espnW, working for espnW and then national

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Speaker 1: radio around the Horn Sports Center. You say to all

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Speaker 1: the other stuff.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so just like hustling your way in there, getting

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Speaker 3: a foot in the door.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So you were there for about fifteen years, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I think I'm close to fifteen ish. Yeah, and you're

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Speaker 3: still you're still working with ESPN, just in a reduced capacity.

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Speaker 1: Yep, working with the espnW, so just focused on the

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Speaker 1: women's sports stuff, hosting a lot of their conferences and stuff.

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Speaker 3: So I'm thinking back to when you gain a foothold

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Speaker 3: inside an esteemed institution like that, there are moments that

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Speaker 3: remind you that all of your hard work was worth it.

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Speaker 3: And I can remember jumping from local news to national

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Speaker 3: news and finally having a fancy coffee machine at the

437
00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:58,480
Speaker 3: office and being like, oh, I've really made it. Like

438
00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:00,800
Speaker 3: they're paying for my coffee now. This is this is

439
00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:03,560
Speaker 3: the best. What are the pinchbe moments that you still

440
00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:05,200
Speaker 3: think about from your time there.

441
00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:08,399
Speaker 1: Oh, there's a couple. So one was I just wanted

442
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:12,000
Speaker 1: to write on my tax forms sports reporter as my

443
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:16,720
Speaker 1: job instead of you know, like a bunch of other

444
00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:20,080
Speaker 1: things or like waitress because that's where most of the

445
00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:22,600
Speaker 1: money was coming from. Like, yeah, I was really excited

446
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:25,439
Speaker 1: when I could just put journalists as my occupation. Another

447
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:27,560
Speaker 1: one was my very first job, which now that I

448
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:29,320
Speaker 1: think about it's really not a huge deal, but at

449
00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:31,480
Speaker 1: the time it felt like such a big deal was

450
00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:34,680
Speaker 1: the update anchor at ESPN one thousand, which is ESPN Radio,

451
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:37,160
Speaker 1: and so every fifteen to thirty minutes, I would hop

452
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:39,560
Speaker 1: on and be like, hello and welcome to your Sports

453
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:40,160
Speaker 1: Center Update.

454
00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:40,920
Speaker 2: I'm Sarah Spain.

455
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,119
Speaker 1: Tonight the Chicago Cubs take on the Cincinnati Reds at

456
00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:45,600
Speaker 1: seven pm Easter But the thing that made me like

457
00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:49,080
Speaker 1: go crazy was the Sports Center music would play before

458
00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:50,240
Speaker 1: I started, so it'd go.

459
00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:51,480
Speaker 2: Da da da da da.

460
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:54,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is Sarah Spain with your sports and I

461
00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:56,280
Speaker 1: was like, oh, my god, it's basically like I'm on

462
00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:58,840
Speaker 1: Sports Center, which it wasn't, but it felt like it.

463
00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,159
Speaker 1: And to be associated with the brand of ESPN in

464
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:04,800
Speaker 1: any way, I was like, oh, I'm doing it. And

465
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:07,399
Speaker 1: then you know, I always called Jamel Hill my fairy

466
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:10,359
Speaker 1: career godmother. And there were a couple great mentors that

467
00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:13,000
Speaker 1: I've had along the way, but she in particular. I

468
00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:16,440
Speaker 1: was at an espnW summit, which is these three day conferences.

469
00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:20,240
Speaker 1: I was a total nobody. I was not involved in

470
00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:22,360
Speaker 1: the programming hardly at all. But I had one thing

471
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:25,000
Speaker 1: that I did on stage and Jamel said, you know,

472
00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:26,439
Speaker 1: you're really great on stage.

473
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:28,959
Speaker 2: You should be doing TV. Why aren't you doing TV?

474
00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:30,919
Speaker 1: And I said, well, back at home in Chicago, I

475
00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:33,000
Speaker 1: did like a local show, but I haven't done much

476
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:34,960
Speaker 1: for ESPN. I've done one or two sports center hits

477
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:36,600
Speaker 1: and that's it for the Blackhawks.

478
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:38,800
Speaker 2: And I think they're just not ready. They haven't seen

479
00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:39,560
Speaker 2: enough tape.

480
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,119
Speaker 1: And she said, well, next time i'm off with my show,

481
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,440
Speaker 1: I'm going to suggest that you host. And I was like, okay, sure,

482
00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:48,920
Speaker 1: And then about a month or two later they gave

483
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:50,800
Speaker 1: me the call. I flew out to Bristol. I hosted

484
00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:53,960
Speaker 1: a live hour show with Michael Smith. Used to be

485
00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:56,119
Speaker 1: called Numbers never Lye and then became His and Hers.

486
00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:59,480
Speaker 1: And within that one show, Keith Oberman show calls me

487
00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:02,360
Speaker 1: outid the lines calls me. I just had to prove myself,

488
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:04,960
Speaker 1: and so that pinched me moment of like somebody saw

489
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:06,720
Speaker 1: me and thought I could do this and then put

490
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:08,600
Speaker 1: me on the air, and I did.

491
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,480
Speaker 2: I did a whole live national TV show.

492
00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,119
Speaker 1: I was like, I can do this, And so I

493
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:16,760
Speaker 1: always think about Jamel and try to think about how

494
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:18,359
Speaker 1: I can be that person for other people.

495
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:22,359
Speaker 3: That is really really cool. It's so great to hear that,

496
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:25,920
Speaker 3: and clearly Jamel is a girl's girl like that. That's

497
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:28,720
Speaker 3: very meaningful when another woman stands in the gap for

498
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:32,520
Speaker 3: you like that. Yeah, were there moments in during those

499
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:35,000
Speaker 3: years where you were getting closer and getting closer where

500
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:37,600
Speaker 3: you ever questioned what you were doing and felt like

501
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:38,080
Speaker 3: giving up.

502
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:39,240
Speaker 2: Not in the sports world.

503
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:42,000
Speaker 1: I did feel that way about comedy and acting, particularly

504
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:46,040
Speaker 1: because I did not really enjoy the scene. And you

505
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:48,600
Speaker 1: hear about the casting couch, and it's very true, and

506
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,439
Speaker 1: unfortunately the sports world is not a fix for that.

507
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,919
Speaker 1: I was the victim of harassment on multiple occasions in

508
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,199
Speaker 1: the sports world too, But it felt like there was

509
00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:00,480
Speaker 1: a more objective way to succeed, like if you know

510
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:02,879
Speaker 1: your stuff, if you get really good at it, you

511
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:07,200
Speaker 1: can succeed in spite of those people. And so I

512
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 1: think with the acting in comedy, I never felt like

513
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,600
Speaker 1: I really was cooking with gas. And then when I

514
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:16,320
Speaker 1: started in the sports world, it felt so natural and

515
00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:18,399
Speaker 1: it felt like, Oh, you're good at this, this is

516
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,680
Speaker 1: where you should be. And so I never really lost

517
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:23,679
Speaker 1: hope or had enough of a drought in that to

518
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 1: think like, oh, this isn't going to work.

519
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 3: Okay, So you're at ESPN for a while and then

520
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,360
Speaker 3: eventually it sounds like something kind of shifted within you,

521
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 3: and I'm curious how you decided to give yourself permission

522
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:42,960
Speaker 3: to distance yourself from that original vision of your dream

523
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:45,320
Speaker 3: job and dream a bit differently.

524
00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was. It was a little bit of choice

525
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:50,680
Speaker 1: and a lot of a shove.

526
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:51,400
Speaker 2: Actually.

527
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:56,160
Speaker 1: So I had been doing national radio and some capacity

528
00:24:56,200 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 1: for thirteen years, from updates to hosting, and for seven

529
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 1: straight years I was doing nighttime national radio, and I

530
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:06,160
Speaker 1: took a ton of pride in being a woman who

531
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,200
Speaker 1: was on the slate which didn't exist other than me

532
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:10,600
Speaker 1: in representing for women in that way.

533
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 2: But it was feeling less satisfying.

534
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 1: It was feeling super ephemeral to get on the air

535
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,159
Speaker 1: every night for two to three hours and have whatever

536
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,640
Speaker 1: I said float away and usually be the biggest hits

537
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:24,440
Speaker 1: of the day. We certainly, throughout the various iterations of

538
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:27,600
Speaker 1: my shows, tried to talk about other things, meaningful things,

539
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,880
Speaker 1: women's sports, social issues like I really tried to make

540
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:32,800
Speaker 1: the show a lot more than just playing the hits.

541
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:35,920
Speaker 1: But I understood that there were limitations for that medium

542
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:39,720
Speaker 1: in that space, and I had other projects that when

543
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:41,359
Speaker 1: I did them and I put my time and effort

544
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,119
Speaker 1: into them, I saw a lot of success with whether

545
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:46,399
Speaker 1: that was the E sixty and the feature reporting I

546
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 1: did for Runs in the Family the First Time, or

547
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 1: a PSA I did called More Than Mean that ended

548
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:53,800
Speaker 1: up winning a bunch of awards, including a Peabody, And

549
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:55,440
Speaker 1: it felt like as long as I had radio every

550
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:57,680
Speaker 1: single night, it was really going to prevent me from

551
00:25:57,720 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 1: spending time on things and making them great.

552
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:02,920
Speaker 2: Part of radio that's great is it is immediate.

553
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,679
Speaker 1: You get your feedback right away, there's a community, you

554
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:09,159
Speaker 1: have time to talk. But it's an imperfect science because

555
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 1: it's off the top of your head. When you really

556
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:13,639
Speaker 1: take your time with a feature, you can edit and

557
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:14,960
Speaker 1: turn it into the piece that you want. And I

558
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 1: wanted a little bit more of that, so I had

559
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 1: been talking to the radio side about trying to get

560
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 1: out of radio and figure out to do more of

561
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 1: the other stuff, and a particular executive there decided he

562
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 1: was just going to have me be gone altogether.

563
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:32,120
Speaker 2: And so after thirteen years, with two weeks notice.

564
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:33,880
Speaker 1: After they hadn't responded to a lot of calls from

565
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 1: my agent, he told me they were just not going

566
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 1: to resign me. And after our meeting, he said he

567
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 1: had spoken to them and there wasn't a lot of

568
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:42,680
Speaker 1: interest in keeping me because he said, oh, without the radio,

569
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:43,360
Speaker 1: you don't have much.

570
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:44,359
Speaker 2: I said, I have E.

571
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 1: Sixties SportsCenter, my podcast, writing espnW, all these shows that

572
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 1: asked me to do more, and I haven't had time

573
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:53,120
Speaker 1: to do more. I was filling it at ESPN Daily

574
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 1: and some other stuff. And he said, oh yeah, I

575
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,120
Speaker 1: called around. There wasn't a lot of interest, I said,

576
00:26:58,040 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 1: So I called my bosses.

577
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:01,639
Speaker 2: How is your call with him? They said, what call?

578
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 1: I said, That's what I thought, So just you know,

579
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,920
Speaker 1: I'm not being resigned, and they were furious, and they

580
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 1: worked to find a position for me at the company

581
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 1: outside of his department, But because he oversaw so much

582
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:15,399
Speaker 1: of what I worked on, it really limited.

583
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:15,680
Speaker 2: What I could do.

584
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 1: So it was a shove that was completely unexpected, and

585
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 1: I think I was very grateful that I had been

586
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 1: hosting a podcast for years, talking to people at times

587
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 1: about their worst times or their unexpected moments much more

588
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,159
Speaker 1: severe than me being pushed out of a job that

589
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,640
Speaker 1: I still really liked. It was people who suffered catastrophic injuries,

590
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 1: people who lost loved ones, people who are outright fired

591
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:44,439
Speaker 1: and had no idea what to do next. And I

592
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 1: remember in those moments, while interviewing them, I would ask myself,

593
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:50,920
Speaker 1: how would you react to this? And my very honest

594
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 1: answer to myself was terribly. You have been through nothing.

595
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 1: Your life has been privileged. You have been so lucky

596
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,360
Speaker 1: in every way, and a lot of that is good

597
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 1: choices you've made and working hard and being kind, but

598
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:06,120
Speaker 1: a lot of it is just luck and the privilege

599
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:08,720
Speaker 1: of mental health from your family and a great upbringing.

600
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:12,399
Speaker 1: And so time to start thinking about how you will react,

601
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:14,880
Speaker 1: because it's not going to be this perfect forever. Something

602
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:17,359
Speaker 1: will happen. And it wasn't cynical, and I wasn't waiting

603
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:19,639
Speaker 1: for the other shoe to drop. It just afforded me

604
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 1: the opportunity to think about if something were to change

605
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 1: in this idyllic life I had made, what would I

606
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 1: do about it? And so when that happened, I gave

607
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 1: myself a couple of days to be angry and sad

608
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 1: and feel sorry for myself and scared about what was

609
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 1: coming next, because ESPN is the top of the mountain.

610
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:37,880
Speaker 1: And then not only did I fight to make sure

611
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 1: I got to go out a little bit more on

612
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 1: my own, on my own terms by working for another

613
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 1: year in a handful of capacities. And now the last

614
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 1: couple of year or two has been just espnW, where

615
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 1: I'm still working with people I love working with about

616
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 1: something I care about. But I also took that time

617
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 1: to look at what I wanted and why I was

618
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 1: moving away from radio, what was going to be satisfying.

619
00:28:58,280 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 1: I think I had always wanted to do a lot

620
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 1: of intersection of sports and social issues because it felt

621
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 1: a little absurd to make a lot of money and

622
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 1: have a job where I'm just talking about people playing games.

623
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 1: It made me feel guilty almost that people who do good,

624
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 1: meaningful work are working harder, or making less money or

625
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 1: living a less privileged life than someone who's just like

626
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 1: going on TV and being like hell of a dunk.

627
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 1: So I always tried to find ways to make it

628
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 1: feel more meaningful. And when this happened, I sat down

629
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 1: and thought, what do I actually want to spend my

630
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 1: time on?

631
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:27,840
Speaker 2: And I knew it was women's sports.

632
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 1: How can I use the career I built and the

633
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 1: influence I have on something that feels metior and more

634
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 1: meaningful and more genuine to something I've cared about my

635
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:39,240
Speaker 1: whole career and tried to intersect with my whole career.

636
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 1: And so, yeah, I got a shove. I'm doing awesome

637
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 1: things ever since that shove. I would never lie and

638
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 1: say that I wouldn't have been perfectly happy if they'd

639
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 1: let me stay on that path. I think I would have,

640
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 1: But things are different at ESPN now too, and looking

641
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 1: at it from a farm, I'm not sure how happy

642
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 1: i'd be if I was there full time.

643
00:29:56,560 --> 00:30:01,040
Speaker 3: I so respect the transparency with which she told that story,

644
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 3: because that's that is not easy to be. It is

645
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 3: not a small thing to be pushed out of a

646
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:11,719
Speaker 3: dream job, and I'm sure it was extremely painful. So

647
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 3: I just really appreciate your vulnerability around sharing that story.

648
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 1: You've got to be honest It's not that I was

649
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 1: dishonest when it first happened. I just was more vague

650
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 1: because I was really embarrassed. Like I talked about before,

651
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 1: I'm like terrified of failure. It felt like a failure.

652
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 1: I'd never had that before. Yeah, And I was so glad.

653
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,960
Speaker 1: I had talked to so many successful people who had

654
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 1: had failures or who had been let go or who

655
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 1: had had things that go their way, so I could

656
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 1: not have it be a referendum on me, And frankly,

657
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 1: I knew it wasn't.

658
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 2: I was crushing my work.

659
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 1: My bosses were so angry that this executive had made

660
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 1: this decision.

661
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 2: It was not about me.

662
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 1: And still I could figure out how to learn from

663
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 1: it and pivot and figure out what was next in

664
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 1: a positive way, and try to figure out, like, because

665
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 1: I'm a creature habit and I don't like change because

666
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 1: of the whole control thing, how can I use this

667
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 1: shove as an organic way to move into something new

668
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 1: and something like the book that I've always wanted to

669
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 1: do and never had time for because I had a

670
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 1: million jobs at ESPN. How do I stop procrastinating on

671
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 1: something I've said I always want to do and just

672
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 1: like do it use the time to do it, and

673
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 1: so that's what I did.

674
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 3: Well, that's actually what I wanted to ask you next.

675
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 3: Do you think that you would have had the courage

676
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 3: to launch your podcast Good Game with Sarah Spain if

677
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 3: you hadn't been shoved out.

678
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 1: It's certainly one of many nudges I'm getting from the

679
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 1: universe about taking bigger swings and being less afraid to fail.

680
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 1: So as far as the podcast goes, I pitched multiple

681
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 1: women's sports things to ESPN over the course of my

682
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 1: fifteen years. Sometimes they even got all the way to

683
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 1: looking at the budget. How many people would you need

684
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 1: on staff all that stuff. I brought sponsors to the

685
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 1: table that were ready to work on it, and it

686
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 1: just hasn't been a priority for them. And I don't

687
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 1: know if I would get fed up eventually and leave

688
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:06,240
Speaker 1: to do it, or if I would have just been

689
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 1: happy bringing women's sports into as many spaces as I

690
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 1: was because it was scary and I'm still scared of

691
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 1: those leaps, So I don't know if I would have

692
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 1: done that. As for the book, when we did the

693
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 1: story for E sixty and the written piece, movie and book,

694
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 1: people came running when it went viral, and we thought

695
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 1: we'd do the movie first and then the book, and

696
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 1: then also the publisher that came was fine. The main

697
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 1: one that came was fine, but it wasn't a huge advance,

698
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 1: and we thought, let's do the movie first, and then

699
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 1: we'll put the stars of the movie on the book cover.

700
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 1: The book will be bigger, all that stuff. And then

701
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 1: we were pitching the movie during COVID and then during

702
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 1: the strike. So we've sort of been on hold with

703
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 1: the movie for the last four years or so, and

704
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 1: now we're going to re up the pitches with the book.

705
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 1: But I have to tell this quick story. So my

706
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 1: husband and I were in New York at this time.

707
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 2: I was just out.

708
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 1: We had renegotiated an extra three months of my contract

709
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 1: because I was hosting an event. I was interviewing the

710
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 1: president of the company, like I had all these jobs

711
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:04,120
Speaker 1: that the executive didn't even ask about before he tried

712
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 1: to kick me to the curb, and we were like, oh,

713
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 1: do you want me to stick around to host this

714
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 1: giant conference and interviewed the president of the company, and

715
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 1: or oh you do okay? Cool, Well, maybe if you'd

716
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 1: passed around at all, you would know, I'm sort of

717
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 1: booked and busy.

718
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 2: For your company.

719
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 1: But so I had this couple months that was sort

720
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 1: of like dead weight. I knew I was out, but

721
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 1: I was working. And my husband and I went to

722
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 1: the US Women's National Team Players Association ball in New York,

723
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 1: and we were walking around that day before the event,

724
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 1: and we walked by the New York Public Library and

725
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 1: everyone raves about how it's got these big, beautiful, fancy rooms.

726
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:36,520
Speaker 2: So we're like, oh, let's pop our heads in.

727
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 1: And we looked into one room and people were diligently

728
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 1: working away in their computers, and I said, oh, I

729
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 1: really missed that, and he's like what, I'm like, I

730
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 1: miss like having a big project. We're just like right

731
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 1: in all day, sitting with your coffee, like you know.

732
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 1: And he's like, that's crazy. I went to the bathroom.

733
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 1: I checked my phone walking out of the bathroom, and

734
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 1: I see an email from my agent at CAA that says,

735
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 1: the woman who really wanted your book has left for

736
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 1: Simon and Schuster and came back around and wanted to

737
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 1: revisit the idea of writing it. And I said that

738
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 1: to my husband and he's like, there you go.

739
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 2: I'm like what.

740
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 1: He's like, there's your project, And I was like, oh

741
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:11,319
Speaker 1: my god, is that what manifesting is? You just like

742
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,240
Speaker 1: go take a whiz and come back and the universe

743
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 1: gives you exactly what you said you wanted within like

744
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 1: five minutes.

745
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 3: Are you sure that's how it goes?

746
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah.

747
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:22,480
Speaker 1: And so, first of all, I did not have time

748
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,239
Speaker 1: to write a book before. But also it was like, hey,

749
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,359
Speaker 1: you are asking the universe for what's next. You are

750
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:30,879
Speaker 1: asking what will feel valuable and meaningful to you. You're

751
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:33,400
Speaker 1: asking what will be satisfying, and you have always wanted

752
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 1: to do this, and this is a project that's right

753
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:37,799
Speaker 1: in your lap. And so I really couldn't even be

754
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:40,399
Speaker 1: afraid of failing. I couldn't even be like, oh, I'm

755
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 1: not going to do that.

756
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 2: It was just I had to do it.

757
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:45,839
Speaker 3: Well, let's talk a little bit about your podcast. But

758
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:56,919
Speaker 3: first a quick break. Your podcast, Good Game with Sarah

759
00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 3: Spain is the very first daily women's sports podcast. I mean,

760
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 3: that's huge. You've also you've won awards from iHeartRadio for

761
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 3: social impact for this show, and you've really taken listeners

762
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 3: along for the ride. As we've seen this surge of

763
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:16,799
Speaker 3: engagement and investment in women's sports. What's one moment from

764
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 3: building good game that made you stop and say, yeah,

765
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:21,799
Speaker 3: this is why we did it.

766
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:24,320
Speaker 2: Well, that's tough. We interview so many people.

767
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:29,439
Speaker 1: This show has been so awesome to have the green

768
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:31,800
Speaker 1: light and the support and the funding and the interest

769
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 1: to have a daily women's sports show that they've sent

770
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 1: me to Spain, the NWSL finals, south By Southwest, the

771
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:42,440
Speaker 1: super Bowl, the Final four, all Star weekend, and putting

772
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 1: the money in interest and effort behind the details in

773
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 1: women's sports, because I really think that's all we've been missing,

774
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 1: is giving people enough information to care. Like we do

775
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 1: such a good job in men's sports of telling you

776
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 1: what everybody fricking ate for lunch, and then in women's sports,

777
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 1: it's like here's a highlight, all right, see you later.

778
00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:58,000
Speaker 2: So I knew we needed to give people the.

779
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 1: Stories and stakes and stats and stars that they could

780
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 1: know enough to want to come watch. And I think

781
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 1: the biggest through line across the former athletes that we've

782
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:07,400
Speaker 1: had on the show, because we have everybody from media

783
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 1: to athletes, to executives to sponsors, but the athletes is

784
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 1: especially they're retired ones. They say I just wish there

785
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 1: was more of a connection between owners in front office

786
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 1: and the athletes, because the pyramid in men's sports very

787
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 1: clearly puts the men at the top. They are the product,

788
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:27,319
Speaker 1: they are the value, they are the stars, they are

789
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 1: served and catered to, and they are the product that

790
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:32,279
Speaker 1: makes everyone below in the pyramid money. And on the

791
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:36,440
Speaker 1: women's side, it is still in some ways set up

792
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 1: where the players are somewhere in the middle and they

793
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 1: are not listened to and respected, and they aren't treated

794
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 1: the right way, and they aren't.

795
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:45,160
Speaker 2: Rewarded in the right way.

796
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:47,759
Speaker 1: And it's not just monetarily, but in the setup of

797
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 1: their leagues, in the response to what they're looking for

798
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 1: and the way that they want to be coached and

799
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 1: served and led. And so I love hearing from former

800
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,360
Speaker 1: players who are getting into ownership or front office roles

801
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 1: and helping connect those two sides.

802
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:03,399
Speaker 2: So we are.

803
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:06,320
Speaker 3: Launching a new season of our show, The bright Side.

804
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 3: So the concept of new beginnings is on my mind.

805
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 3: What are three Sarah Spain truths or beliefs that have

806
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:16,759
Speaker 3: gotten you through new beginnings?

807
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 2: That's an interesting one.

808
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 1: Trust myself, I have always had a pretty innate surity

809
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:29,720
Speaker 1: that I can trust myself, my gut, instinct, my beliefs,

810
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:33,879
Speaker 1: my priorities, my principles. So I'm always thinking whatever new

811
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 1: thing I'm embarking on to consider and always center in

812
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 1: myself and just trusting that I'll do what's right. Try

813
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:43,840
Speaker 1: to be kind to myself and to others, but especially

814
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:47,000
Speaker 1: in our business. It's remarkable how someone I met twenty

815
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 1: five years ago is back around in some job or

816
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 1: some office or some whatever. And I'm grateful and thankful

817
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 1: that I'm always someone who's going to lead with kindness

818
00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 1: and hype other people up and want everyone to succeed.

819
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 1: I've never been someone who wants to compete in life.

820
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 2: It's interesting.

821
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:06,880
Speaker 1: I'm the most competitive human alive when it comes to

822
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 1: like games or sports, but when it comes to supporting

823
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 1: other people, and I just want everyone to like crush

824
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 1: it and shine and be awesome. And I love when

825
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 1: other people hype me, So I hype other people. You know,

826
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:22,719
Speaker 1: I'm very aware of what makes me feel good, and

827
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 1: I try to do that for other people. So be kind,

828
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:31,480
Speaker 1: trust my gut, trust myself, and oh I think for

829
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:36,400
Speaker 1: me balance. I will work twenty four hours a day

830
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:41,719
Speaker 1: if I do not schedule fun. I am not a

831
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:45,320
Speaker 1: good relaxer because I feel guilty sometimes when I'm relaxing

832
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 1: about how I could be being productive. So the best

833
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,440
Speaker 1: thing for me is to be as ambitious about my

834
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:55,239
Speaker 1: social life as I am about my work life. And

835
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 1: it comes very naturally. That's what I want to do anyway.

836
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:00,160
Speaker 1: But if I have a dinner on the books or

837
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 1: concert or I throw a lot of costume parties with

838
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:05,879
Speaker 1: my friends, like it gives me some outlet other than

839
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 1: work to put my energy, and I always make sure

840
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 1: there's that balance. Sometimes my friends like, why don't you

841
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:13,719
Speaker 1: just cancel, go home and sleep, And I'm like, no,

842
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:17,000
Speaker 1: if I cancel, I'll feel like I chose work over this,

843
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 1: and I don't want to make that choice.

844
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:20,239
Speaker 2: I just want to do all of it.

845
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:23,320
Speaker 3: Are we a little bit of a party animal, Sarah?

846
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:25,280
Speaker 3: I'm a retired party animal myself.

847
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 1: It's like not partying, it's like socializing, you know what

848
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 1: I mean. Like my husband and I have a lot

849
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:33,760
Speaker 1: of friends across the country, and when we go somewhere,

850
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:34,839
Speaker 1: we seek all of them out.

851
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:37,239
Speaker 2: Like I just went to La for an Angel City game.

852
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:39,359
Speaker 1: Told a bunch of my friends from when I lived there,

853
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 1: and friends from work that I was going to be there,

854
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:43,839
Speaker 1: picked a place and I had like seventeen friends who

855
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:46,239
Speaker 1: came to eat pizza and have beer with me on

856
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:49,400
Speaker 1: a random Thursday, Like cause I keep those connections up

857
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 1: because it's really important to me to keep those connections up.

858
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 2: That's so me.

859
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 3: I so relate to this.

860
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 2: Yeah.

861
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:57,960
Speaker 1: So it's like our version of partying is now just

862
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,719
Speaker 1: like packing our day with good one on one or

863
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:01,720
Speaker 1: group time.

864
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:04,399
Speaker 3: It's grown in sexy partying. For me, I can't agree

865
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:05,800
Speaker 3: you will you will not catch me? I mean, I

866
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:08,600
Speaker 3: don't have time to be hungover. No, so I got

867
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 3: to pack my battles. Yeah, totally, Okay. Finally, Sarah, what

868
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 3: is one area of your life where you're currently experiencing

869
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 3: the bright side or what's one area of your life

870
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 3: where you're looking for the bright side.

871
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 1: I would say my optimism is a gift almost all

872
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:31,240
Speaker 1: the time. I'm incredibly grateful, naturally for everything.

873
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:32,719
Speaker 2: I didn't even drink till I was a junior in

874
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:34,719
Speaker 2: college because I was like, why would I need to drink?

875
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:37,440
Speaker 1: We get sunsets and dolphins and music and like the

876
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:39,600
Speaker 1: world is the best place life.

877
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:41,440
Speaker 2: That's right. And then like later in life.

878
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:42,760
Speaker 1: That was part of what I was talking about earlier

879
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 1: is starting to try to understand why the people are

880
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:46,120
Speaker 1: the way they are and being like, oh, I get

881
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:49,279
Speaker 1: why someone wants to escape or why someone doesn't think

882
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 1: every day is a gift because people have it hard,

883
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 1: and like, don't be judging about that. Don't pat yourself

884
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 1: on the back for having it so easy. Start to

885
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:59,440
Speaker 1: try to understand other people. But right now, my optimism,

886
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 1: I think is is at odds with my desire to

887
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:07,239
Speaker 1: be informed, and my control issues are getting in the

888
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 1: way because I feel helpless. Yeah, and my response to

889
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:14,719
Speaker 1: every problem is let me fix that.

890
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 3: But this is not something I can fix exactly. It's

891
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 3: hard to be the fix it person when you can't.

892
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 2: Yet, And I don't want to bury my head because

893
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:22,840
Speaker 2: I'm privileged.

894
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:26,120
Speaker 3: We'll just know that the work that you're doing is useful,

895
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 3: so don't forget that.

896
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:29,480
Speaker 1: There's the bright side. Is at least it feels like

897
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 1: I'm doing good stuff every day.

898
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:34,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, one hundred percent. Well, Sarah Spain, thank you so

899
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 3: much for bringing your multitudes and your life FOMO to

900
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 3: the bright side. It certainly made it bright.

901
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 2: I really enjoyed it. Thanks. That's it. For this week.

902
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:47,839
Speaker 3: Join the conversation with us on social media at Hello

903
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:50,680
Speaker 3: Sunshine on ig and feel free to hit me up

904
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:53,360
Speaker 3: at some own voice. Listen and follow The bright Side

905
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:56,399
Speaker 3: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get

906
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:59,400
Speaker 3: your podcasts, and as always, keep looking on the bright side, y'all.

907
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:03,880
Speaker 3: The bright Side is a production of Hello Sunshine and

908
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 3: iHeart Podcasts and is executive produced by Reese Witherspoon and

909
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:12,000
Speaker 3: me Simone Boyce. Production is by Acast Creative Studios. Our

910
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:16,880
Speaker 3: producers are Taylor Williamson, Adrian Bain, and Darby Masters. Our

911
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:21,319
Speaker 3: production assistant is Joya putnoy A. Cast Executive producers are

912
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:25,320
Speaker 3: Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder. Maureen Polo and Reese Witherspoon

913
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 3: are the executive producers for Hello Sunshine. Ali Perry is

914
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:33,440
Speaker 3: the executive producer for iHeart Podcasts. Tim Pealazola is our showrunner.

915
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 3: Our theme song is by Anna Stump and Hamilton Lighthouser.