1 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:11,959 Speaker 1: What's that at the bed? It's spooky, I'm jooky. I'm 2 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: really sure it's dead. It's coming, it's way. 3 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:22,160 Speaker 2: Wait a minute, I'm gosted runs dressed lens. 4 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:32,199 Speaker 3: Plase, Hey boo, it's me Ras. So I'm actually recording 5 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 3: this right now on my birthday. So today's well, you're 6 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:41,560 Speaker 3: listening to this. It came out on Thursday. My birthday 7 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 3: is Wednesday, October twentieth, and. 8 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: I don't know. 9 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 3: I'm not that much of a birthday person, but I 10 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 3: guess it's my whole birthday week celebration. So you know, 11 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 3: if you want to get me a gift, all I 12 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 3: ask is just to go tell your friends and your 13 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 3: followers about Ghosted. You know it's perfect for Halloween times, 14 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:08,480 Speaker 3: so just you know, spread the word. That's all I 15 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 3: ask of you. I don't need happy birthdays and balloons 16 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:15,360 Speaker 3: and cakes and strippers or any of that stuff. Just 17 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 3: wait strippers for birthdays or bachelorette parties. I don't know 18 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 3: either way, I don't need a stripper. All I need 19 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 3: is if you to tell your friends about the show, 20 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 3: if you want to, I don't know. Thank you anyway. 21 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 3: I had a lovely weekend. I went to Palm Springs. 22 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:38,040 Speaker 3: Not to celebrate my birthday, I went for a wedding 23 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:44,479 Speaker 3: very Hollywood style, ran into actually a lot of previous 24 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 3: guests that have been on the show, had such a 25 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 3: nice time. 26 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 1: And I also had a psychic reading. 27 00:01:56,200 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 3: And we actually talk a bit today about this kind 28 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 3: of thing briefly here at the top of my conversation 29 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 3: with Michelle Bell and Jay on this part two, we 30 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 3: talked about storefront psychics. 31 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 1: And I went to something kind of like that. I mean, 32 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 1: it was in a store and. 33 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 3: It was I was with my best friend Sam Pancake, 34 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 3: former podcast guest, and we took turns getting these readings. 35 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 3: And this particular person that read me, he had a 36 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:34,799 Speaker 3: bunch of different cards, so he's like, all right, pick 37 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:37,519 Speaker 3: three of these and then okay, now pick three of these, 38 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:40,800 Speaker 3: and now like reach your hand in this mysterious bag 39 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 3: and pick three things out of it. 40 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure this was a psychic. 41 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 3: I went to I don't know, and it was all 42 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 3: these kind of readings where it was just kind of like, oh, 43 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 3: I'm just gonna tell you things about you, you know 44 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 3: what I mean, where it was very like, ah, okay, 45 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 3: you're you're very strong and you've lived an interesting. 46 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: Life, and. 47 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 3: You like to eat food, and you breathe, and you 48 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 3: sometimes sleep at night. It's like get very like, okay, 49 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 3: you could say that to anyone, you know, that kind 50 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 3: of a thing. So and then I was like, okay, well, 51 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 3: can you like tell me a bit about my future? 52 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 3: And he's like, we have to ask a specific question. 53 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:30,359 Speaker 3: And so I was like, how will I feel a 54 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:32,800 Speaker 3: year from today? I feel like that's a good question 55 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 3: to ask a psychic or a card reader or something. 56 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 3: And he said that a year from that day, I 57 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 3: was gonna feel very good. So he must be legit 58 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 3: because he told me what I wanted to hear. 59 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 1: You never know about these things. I don't know. 60 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 3: God, I've spent so much money in my lifetime on psychics. 61 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 3: But anyway, I should also say I unfortunately had to 62 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 3: cancel my second live show in la I apologize. I 63 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 3: had announced it and then I had to basically instantly 64 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:19,160 Speaker 3: cancel it last week. So very sorry about that. If 65 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 3: anybody was hoping to go, I'm just doing the one 66 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 3: on the Friday. It's completely sold out. You could keep 67 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 3: an eye on my Instagram if for some reason tickets 68 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 3: do open up somehow, I will post about it, but 69 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 3: other than that, you know, it's the first one back 70 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:43,600 Speaker 3: after you know, Lockdown and everything, So you know, we'll 71 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:45,160 Speaker 3: see how it goes. And maybe I'll just do a 72 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 3: bunch more. Maybe I'll do them all over the place. 73 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:48,159 Speaker 1: I'm not sure. 74 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:50,280 Speaker 3: Right before the pandemic, I had all these plans. I 75 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 3: was gonna go all over the place doing these these shows. 76 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 3: But so that's the goal, that's what I hope. Maybe 77 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 3: that's what the psychic was talking about. I'm not really sure, 78 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:05,600 Speaker 3: but so I'm sorry about that. For anyone that was 79 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 3: excited to see that live show, it will not be happy. 80 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 3: Only the one on the Friday it's sold out. Also, 81 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 3: next week will be our Halloween show, I guess I 82 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 3: mean it will be out. I believe that's the twenty eighth, 83 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:28,600 Speaker 3: so not Halloween exactly. But I thought I would do 84 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 3: something fun and different, and I did talk about this 85 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:36,040 Speaker 3: briefly a couple weeks back. I was looking for voice 86 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:39,920 Speaker 3: notes and stories and questions and that kind of a thing, 87 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 3: and I posted a bit on my social media as well, 88 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 3: and so I decided I would do an episode by myself, 89 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 3: without any guests. 90 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 1: I was kind of nervous. 91 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 3: I've never done anything like that, just me talking for 92 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:58,039 Speaker 3: like an hour, but I think it ended up great. 93 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 3: And the team at Sturboran's Audio, who produced my podcast, 94 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:06,479 Speaker 3: we shot it in person on video. 95 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:09,559 Speaker 1: I almost said film, How old am I on video? 96 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 3: So there will be a link next week in the 97 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 3: description of the episode where you could watch it for 98 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:20,040 Speaker 3: the first ever on video episode. 99 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 1: And the whole team at Star Wars did such a 100 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 1: great job. 101 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 3: We've got fun, little cute effects, and I listen to 102 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:31,840 Speaker 3: voice notes from you guys and answer some questions, and 103 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 3: I tell some stories and we listen to EVPs and 104 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:37,480 Speaker 3: it's just like, you know, it's a cute little slumber 105 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 3: party and I'm trying something different, and I hope you 106 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:44,279 Speaker 3: enjoy it. So look out for that next week as 107 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 3: we celebrate Halloween. Oh god, we're so close to it, 108 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 3: which almost makes me sad. 109 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:55,720 Speaker 1: I get sad. I hate okay. 110 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 3: I just need to be in the moment because I 111 00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 3: get sad as I get close to Halloween, because then 112 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 3: it means it's over. I hope you guys are having fun. 113 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 3: I hope you're going to all the places, all the 114 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:07,040 Speaker 3: spooky things wherever you live. And you're watching lots of 115 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 3: good spooky movies. Anyway, I hope I can give you 116 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 3: a little bit more of that today with the conclusion 117 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 3: to my conversation with Michelle Belna and this second part 118 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 3: we get into a lot of stuff again. We talk 119 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 3: about psychic stuff, we talk about conjuring demons, and then 120 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 3: we get into world religions. Now again, this is inspired 121 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,119 Speaker 3: by the book that I was reading that she wrote, 122 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 3: and she does talk a lot in the book about 123 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 3: the various religions of the world and their views on 124 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 3: this dark sided stuff, and so we talk about that, 125 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 3: and on Patreon this week we talk even more about it. 126 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 3: We talk about the d Book, which is something I 127 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:01,239 Speaker 3: had heard about but I don't know a bunch about. 128 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 3: It's a Jewish mythological figure that is, you know, a 129 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 3: malicious spirit. Some you know compare it to a demon, 130 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 3: and she had a lot to say about it. So 131 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 3: if you got a patroon dot com slash Ross dress 132 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 3: well as on my second tier, we talk about that. 133 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 3: And on my first year this week, on my way 134 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 3: home from Palm Springs with Sam, I did a little 135 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 3: mini episode of the little podcast that Sam and I 136 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 3: did A couple of months ago on Patreon and I 137 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:37,439 Speaker 3: just talked to him about Halloween and it's fun and 138 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:43,960 Speaker 3: we hear a little bit about his past Halloween experiences. Okay, 139 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 3: I say we get into it. I hope you enjoy 140 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 3: part two with Michelle Bell and j On with the show. Well, 141 00:08:57,640 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 3: the last time you were on, we talked a lot 142 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 3: of about you being you know, a psychic and the 143 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 3: abilities that you have. And one thing that I was 144 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:10,080 Speaker 3: thinking about more as I was reading your book, since 145 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 3: it's a ghost Hunter's Guide, was I wanted to hear 146 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 3: more about your thoughts of when being a psychic. You 147 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 3: know you just you your thoughts of a psychic in 148 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:25,079 Speaker 3: terms of paranormal investigation. 149 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:28,679 Speaker 1: When is then a good tool? When is that how 150 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 1: do you like to use it, etc. 151 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 2: Well, from the last story I mentioned, I always like 152 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 2: a second or third opinion, and that goes with using 153 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 2: a psychic for any kind of paranormal investigation. Especially psychic 154 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:50,520 Speaker 2: abilities are really useful and also it's really easy to 155 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 2: be front loaded. If you are working as a psychic 156 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 2: for a paranoral investigation team, you should not also be 157 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 2: the person researching the property. You should ideally be kept 158 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 2: in the dark as much as possible so that you 159 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 2: have as accurate a reading as is humanly possible. Now, 160 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 2: we can never be one hundred percent objective, and we 161 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 2: should always have our perceptions checked someone. You know, if 162 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 2: you walk into a room and you're like, I see 163 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 2: someone who looks like this, and I think this happened there, 164 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:27,079 Speaker 2: you shouldn't be the person who then tries to do 165 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 2: the research to prove it. So also the team should. 166 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 2: In my opinion, the best use of a psychic on 167 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 2: a paranormal team is as one of the various methods 168 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 2: used to measure, read, and perceive what's in the location, 169 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:51,319 Speaker 2: and should be used like any other tool, which is 170 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:54,680 Speaker 2: to say, taken with a great assault, and always verified 171 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:59,559 Speaker 2: whenever possible. As a psychic, I try really hard not 172 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 2: to get invested in being right or wrong. I simply 173 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 2: try to experience and report those experiences as objectively as possible, 174 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 2: with as little interpretation as possible. That can be difficult 175 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 2: when you know it's just me and I'm being called 176 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:20,319 Speaker 2: on to play multiple roles. I'm both the investigator and 177 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 2: the researcher, and also the person trying to solve the 178 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:25,599 Speaker 2: haunting and the person trying to like just read the 179 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 2: room and get a feel for what's actually there. That requires, 180 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 2: in my opinion, a fair amount of training for objectivity, 181 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:38,200 Speaker 2: to be able to step back and not let your 182 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:41,599 Speaker 2: ego get all wound up in whether you're right or 183 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 2: how cool it is, but to just try to let 184 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 2: things speak to you and do that as safely as possible. 185 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 3: Do you have days where your psychic abilities are just 186 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 3: like just not you can't, can't get it to happen? 187 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think anybody who works as a psychic 188 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:07,720 Speaker 2: needs to get very comfortable with saying I got nothing yeah, 189 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:11,199 Speaker 2: because if you hit a point where you're not getting 190 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 2: anything in a space, ay, there might be nothing to 191 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 2: get be It just might be you that day, And 192 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:20,199 Speaker 2: if you try too hard, you may start making stuff 193 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 2: up and at that point you start losing your objectivity. 194 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:28,840 Speaker 3: That's my problem with like storefront psychics. You know, there's 195 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 3: a demand for them to tell me something if I'm 196 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:36,440 Speaker 3: going to go and pay my thirty dollars, And I'm 197 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:40,840 Speaker 3: just like, did they really like get a hit every time? 198 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:43,640 Speaker 3: Or are they just you know, coming up with something. 199 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 2: One thing I can say for sure about that is 200 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:49,199 Speaker 2: I don't trust myself to do that, which is why 201 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 2: I don't do readings for hire, because the pressure of 202 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 2: someone who's now paid me money to tell them something, 203 00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 2: there is pressure to perform there, and I get all 204 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 2: tamed up on myself. I find it a lot easier 205 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:05,439 Speaker 2: to just get a call from from Jack or Katrina 206 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 2: or somebody and like, hey, we've got a cool space 207 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:09,840 Speaker 2: and we'd like to just throw you into it blindfolded, 208 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 2: and I'm all like cool. I love experiences, but you know, 209 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:18,959 Speaker 2: make me do it for money, and that pressure to 210 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 2: perform becomes a really slippery slope. 211 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:24,959 Speaker 1: So you don't feel that pressure when there's like a 212 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:26,559 Speaker 1: camera crew and all that. 213 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:33,440 Speaker 2: No, because for me, that's more experimentation. I'm getting an 214 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:37,600 Speaker 2: opportunity to be in the field and just test the abilities, 215 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 2: and I'm trusting the team around me to confirm, deny, 216 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 2: or debunk anything I come up with. It's a way 217 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:52,439 Speaker 2: of one sort of stretching my abilities, but more than that, 218 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:58,680 Speaker 2: just get confirmation, some validation that what I'm doing has 219 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 2: like a real aff effect in the world. It's not 220 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 2: just stories that I'm telling in my head, because I'm 221 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:07,320 Speaker 2: also a fiction writer, Like I can make some stories up. 222 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:11,839 Speaker 3: Well, but doesn't doesn't a lot of that, you know, 223 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:15,839 Speaker 3: isn't it all kind of a what's the chicken or 224 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 3: the ag whatever? 225 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 2: Like? 226 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 3: You know, doesn't it kind of inform some of the 227 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 3: stories that you can fictionalize later as well with your writing. 228 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 2: That my shadow Side series with conspiracy of Angels and 229 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 2: harsh gods and whatnot, I freely use that as a 230 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 2: playground to experiment with what if about certain abilities and 231 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 2: also to sort of share with people how I experience 232 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 2: the world, but in like a bigger, louder, dramatized sort 233 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 2: of way. Yeah, I don't think that there's a way 234 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 2: for me to divorce the way in which I experience 235 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 2: the world from any of my writing. It's so much 236 00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 2: an integral part of me. 237 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 3: I'm glad that you put up portals to Hell because 238 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:05,960 Speaker 3: you know that's sort of uh. That show came out 239 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 3: right when this podcast really started, and Katrina was I 240 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 3: think she was my first TV ghost Hunter guest. And 241 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 3: she's been on like three times now, and Jack's been on, 242 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 3: and You've been on, and it's become that's become like 243 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 3: kind of our definitely one of our favorite shows over here. 244 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:29,280 Speaker 3: A ghosted by Roz Jessephlez and I saw you on 245 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 3: the most recent batch of episodes. Do you yeah, when 246 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 3: you you show up to these places, I just I 247 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 3: love watching you on these shows. You show up to 248 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 3: these places, you confirm all this stuff, and then you're like, 249 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 3: all right, have fun, bye guys. 250 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 2: Totally. 251 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 1: So then what do you do? You just go back 252 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 1: to like your hotel room and yep. 253 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 2: Hotel room or half the time, I literally like a 254 00:15:57,440 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 2: drive out and I turn around and I just drive 255 00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 2: back home. 256 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 1: Is that exhausting for you spiritually or. 257 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 2: A little bit? But I think it's like training for 258 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 2: a marathon. I've been doing that sort of stuff so 259 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 2: much that I know how it to paint myself, And 260 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 2: even in locations that are pretty extensive and overwhelming, I 261 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:30,480 Speaker 2: know when I'm wearing thin, and I know when to 262 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 2: ask to stop. Twenty years ago probably wouldn't be able 263 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 2: to just you know, dive into Penhurst and wander around 264 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 2: blindfolded for like two three hours. I have a terrible 265 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 2: sense of time, so I literally have no idea how 266 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 2: long these things take. Like I'm just there in my 267 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 2: zone with the with the blindfold on and just in 268 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 2: my head and you know, just kind of getting moved 269 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 2: from space to space and just trying not to bang 270 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 2: ahead on anything, and it sort of plays out in 271 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:06,440 Speaker 2: its own none time, like it's just it's just I 272 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:08,959 Speaker 2: don't know the feel of the space. It's hard to describe. 273 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 2: It's really hard to put into words, and I'm a wordsmith. 274 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:16,240 Speaker 3: Well, A lot of the places that they go to, 275 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 3: like a common thread is that there may have been 276 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:27,439 Speaker 3: or there is proof of people trying to conjure up 277 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 3: demons or you know, that sort of a thing. 278 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 1: And I have kind of an idiot question about that. 279 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:39,639 Speaker 3: I don't think any questions when somebody's trying to summon 280 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:40,119 Speaker 3: a demon. 281 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 1: I mean, what are they hoping is going to happen? 282 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 2: That is a damn good question, because sometimes I really wonder. 283 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:52,159 Speaker 3: Even as I was reading your book, I was like, 284 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 3: wait a minute, why do people do this? Like especially 285 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 3: people like I don't know, just like a bunch of 286 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:00,640 Speaker 3: goth teenagers, I just want to try out or whatever, 287 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:01,680 Speaker 3: Like what then what? 288 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 2: What? So? 289 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:05,200 Speaker 1: Then you get your d man, what are you gonna 290 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 1: do with that? 291 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 2: I think a lot of modern people, especially when it's 292 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 2: younger folks who are like cool, I'm gonna summon Baphame. 293 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 2: I don't know, that they actually think that far ahead. 294 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:21,399 Speaker 2: I actually, here's my real thought is an awful lot 295 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 2: of people who are trying to do that are really 296 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 2: looking for incontrovertible proof that spirits either exist or don't, 297 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 2: and so they shoot for the biggest, baddest, most extreme 298 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:41,639 Speaker 2: experience they can possibly think about. If that kicks their butts, 299 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:48,680 Speaker 2: they have proof. Okay, I think it's really a dare 300 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:56,159 Speaker 2: to reality to prove itself or have nothing happen and 301 00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:58,679 Speaker 2: make them then go home and feel better that there 302 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 2: really aren't spooky things out there. Now, we want to 303 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:05,680 Speaker 2: go back to the ritual magic and ceremonial magic of 304 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 2: Middle Ages and Renaissance. They were sum many demons mainly 305 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:15,359 Speaker 2: as tutelary spirits, as things to teach them and things 306 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:18,920 Speaker 2: to protect them and things. Oh man, there are so 307 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:22,879 Speaker 2: many demons that were supposedly summoned in order to get hookups. 308 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:27,400 Speaker 2: It's really off the charts. How many spells and demons 309 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:30,879 Speaker 2: specifically from that time period, or about getting somebody to 310 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 2: strip naked in front of you, or find it like 311 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:37,200 Speaker 2: like all the ladies in town to just irresistibly throw 312 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:39,960 Speaker 2: themselves at you. It is so much about just sexy 313 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:42,880 Speaker 2: times for like little aspiring insults. 314 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:53,920 Speaker 1: Really, okay, so we'll staying on this topic. Yeah, When 315 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 1: so somebody. 316 00:19:57,080 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 3: Opens the door, they bring in some kind of dark 317 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:06,000 Speaker 3: energy into a space that later ends up on Discovery 318 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:07,480 Speaker 3: Plus's portals to help. 319 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 2: Right, does so. 320 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:13,879 Speaker 3: A demon or whatever word we want to use, a 321 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:18,879 Speaker 3: dark energy? Why would it then now linger in that 322 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 3: space or does it sometimes get unleashed into the world, 323 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 3: or does it attached to the people that open this 324 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:28,720 Speaker 3: door or what happens there. 325 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 2: Typically there are some beliefs that one of the reasons 326 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:37,200 Speaker 2: entities will try so hard to be called into the 327 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 2: world is that they can't really come through on their own. 328 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:42,720 Speaker 2: Do they need to be invited in some way or another. 329 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:48,280 Speaker 2: That's a fairly deep part of folklore, and you know, 330 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:50,480 Speaker 2: it's worked its way into like our vampire myth that 331 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:55,240 Speaker 2: like vampires must be invited inside. But that notion of invitation, 332 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:59,719 Speaker 2: or the inability to cross the boundaries themselves without assistance, 333 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:05,119 Speaker 2: that has some compelling details to me, that there are 334 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:10,000 Speaker 2: certain things that are so alien to our world or 335 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 2: the way in which things work in it, that outside 336 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:18,680 Speaker 2: of really unique and extreme circumstances, they can't really manifest 337 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 2: here I also think that there are plenty of spirits 338 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:25,119 Speaker 2: their native here, and a ritual like that, rather than 339 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:28,439 Speaker 2: opening a door to let them in, creates a lot 340 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 2: of energy, creates a lot of power to feed them, 341 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 2: to strengthen them, to give them a little bit more 342 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:38,879 Speaker 2: oomph for manifesting and for being present. And again I 343 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:42,680 Speaker 2: think most spirits think with their stomachs in the sense 344 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 2: that everything is energy and their energy, and they need 345 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:48,480 Speaker 2: to eat as much as we do. And again, they 346 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 2: don't have ghostly McDonald's. They eat people. They eat the 347 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:59,359 Speaker 2: emotional residue of energy from traumatic events, from joyous events. 348 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:03,000 Speaker 2: A lot of the stuff that we get on the shows, 349 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:05,159 Speaker 2: of course, are dark and negative, because those are the 350 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 2: ones that stand out, like you're not going to port 351 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:11,679 Speaker 2: a haunting of a spirit that hangs around the merryground 352 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 2: that makes everybody feel happy. Nobody cares. Actually, you're just 353 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:18,920 Speaker 2: you're just thrilled that this place makes you feel delighted 354 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 2: every time you walk in it. That spirits still getting 355 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:27,360 Speaker 2: something out of it, but we don't find it inconvenient. 356 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:33,159 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I still I mean I would prefer 357 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 3: a nice, happy spirit. But again, I understand why people 358 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:43,639 Speaker 3: want to see on TV. The dark, spooky, ooky, kooky 359 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 3: stuff makes sense. 360 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:49,199 Speaker 2: Yeah, I like the spooky stuff too. 361 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 1: You know, something I. 362 00:22:56,040 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 3: Really like in your book is the mention of different 363 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:07,720 Speaker 3: world religions and having understanding of various beliefs, and you 364 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:12,440 Speaker 3: actually go through different, you know, common religions, some less 365 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 3: common religions that we might not have known much about, 366 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:20,399 Speaker 3: and go into their beliefs on you know, dark stuff 367 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 3: and good stuff and and all of that, and and 368 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 3: so how does that benefit a ghost hunter? 369 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 2: First of all, not every family you might be investigating 370 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:37,320 Speaker 2: will be Christian, not every location will have, you know, 371 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 2: been Christian from start to finish. And there are a 372 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,439 Speaker 2: lot of different approaches to spirits, a lot of different 373 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 2: types and perspectives. And what spirits are. A really good 374 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:54,680 Speaker 2: contrast is in Islam, most of what we would identify 375 00:23:54,880 --> 00:24:00,359 Speaker 2: as from poltergeists to ghosts to fairies to most means 376 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:06,879 Speaker 2: our gin from their perspective genie, Yeah, genies, what we 377 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:12,680 Speaker 2: identify as as demonic possession. Ninety nine percent of the times, 378 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:16,399 Speaker 2: I guarantee if it was a Muslim looking at that, 379 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 2: that's just a gin that has taken possession of a person. 380 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:26,880 Speaker 2: Incubus succubists from their perspective gin and understanding what those 381 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 2: perspectives are, if there really is a categorical difference, or 382 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 2: if it's simply different words that we use. These help 383 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 2: us understand people's experiences better. You don't want to go 384 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:44,399 Speaker 2: into a Pagan household with a Catholic priest and have 385 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 2: the Catholic priest run their ritual to remove things, because 386 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 2: that doesn't speak to the pagan family at all, and 387 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:55,840 Speaker 2: vice versa. You wouldn't take a Pagan priest and have 388 00:24:56,119 --> 00:25:00,399 Speaker 2: them make a Catholic family go through a whole like 389 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,119 Speaker 2: you know, casting the circle and you know, sword and 390 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:04,680 Speaker 2: chalice and all of that, because that's not going to 391 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:11,680 Speaker 2: mean anything to them either. So having different perspectives gives 392 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 2: us a wider arsenal, first of all, to combat things 393 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:20,719 Speaker 2: or to assess how to combat them, but also how 394 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,200 Speaker 2: to speak to the people who are having those experiences, 395 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:30,440 Speaker 2: because we all have different languages for what is out 396 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:35,680 Speaker 2: there beyond our physical world, and whether it's a ghost 397 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:39,399 Speaker 2: or Poulter guys to demon or a gin, a penan gallon, 398 00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:45,399 Speaker 2: or something stranger, whether those are real or not is 399 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:49,159 Speaker 2: more immaterial. If you are a good paranal investigator out 400 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,880 Speaker 2: to try to solve a haunting. For people, the most 401 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:56,119 Speaker 2: important thing is the people experiencing it believe it, So 402 00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:58,879 Speaker 2: you need to know why and what they might be 403 00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:03,120 Speaker 2: interpreting for that belief, and then how do you deal 404 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 2: with it from your perspective you. 405 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 3: I mean, well, and I know you've been working on 406 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 3: I believe last time you said you were working on 407 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:13,960 Speaker 3: a book about is It Past Live? 408 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:18,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, so how's that going. I feel like I can't 409 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:20,960 Speaker 1: imagine how much research that could lead you on. 410 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 2: Oh, that one has, okay, So I can never work 411 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:27,720 Speaker 2: on one project once that one has spawned a workbook, 412 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,600 Speaker 2: a card deck, neither of which are in production yet. 413 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 2: And I'm slowly chipping away at the past life stuff 414 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 2: because it's so very personal. I've had memories since I 415 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:44,440 Speaker 2: was very tiny. I personally believe some of the things 416 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:46,200 Speaker 2: that I know. It's not like I haven't made a 417 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 2: point of also researching them this life. But in many 418 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,399 Speaker 2: cases it's stuff where I'm like, Okay, I know that 419 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:55,440 Speaker 2: the ancient Egyptians have had a water clock, and the 420 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:59,359 Speaker 2: central part of it was in the form of a 421 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 2: bamboon pissing and it would take a pee once on 422 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,840 Speaker 2: the hour, every hour. That's the weirdest thing ever to know. 423 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:06,720 Speaker 2: Does that exist? 424 00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 1: It sounds amass, right, but yes it does. 425 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 2: So the past life stuff is deeply personal, and trying 426 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:19,879 Speaker 2: to find the right the right way to kind of 427 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:23,119 Speaker 2: navigate that because I want it to be a workable 428 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:27,520 Speaker 2: book for everyone. I don't want to just be like going, 429 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,080 Speaker 2: well in my day, I remember blah blah blah, like 430 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 2: I just don't want it to be an autobiographical recounting 431 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,200 Speaker 2: of like all of my ridiculous past life memories, because 432 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:40,359 Speaker 2: that just seems, well, that would probably be interesting. I 433 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:44,280 Speaker 2: don't know that it's all that useful beyond just fun stories. 434 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:47,119 Speaker 1: Well I do like those too, but I get what 435 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:49,679 Speaker 1: you mean. I mean, do you think that. 436 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:55,200 Speaker 3: Your psychic abilities have you know, gone with you in 437 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 3: all of your past lives? 438 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 2: I definitely think that there are some things that I've 439 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:04,520 Speaker 2: carried with me over and over again, and trying to 440 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 2: track that down was one of the first motivators when 441 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 2: I was a teen to confirm some of the things 442 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:15,720 Speaker 2: that had come forth as probable past life memories, to 443 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:19,159 Speaker 2: try to just understand, like how much of us do 444 00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:21,760 Speaker 2: we carry from lifetime? To lifetime. If this is a 445 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:24,400 Speaker 2: possible thing, like if this is part of your worldview 446 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:27,400 Speaker 2: and you accept that not only does the human soul 447 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:33,120 Speaker 2: survive death but maybe also comes back. Does it get 448 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:37,200 Speaker 2: wiped clean? Is it normal for that to happen? Does 449 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 2: it just get you know, kind of tossed in the 450 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 2: unconscious bin of things that you're not really aware of, 451 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 2: but you're carrying anyway, And you know, how normal is 452 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 2: it to remember as much as someone does? 453 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, some of my favorite stories are the ones 454 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 3: of children that had these very specific memories, and it 455 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 3: kind of brings into question all. 456 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 1: Of this stuff of how did that happen? 457 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,480 Speaker 3: Did it was that supposed to get wiped clean and 458 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:10,800 Speaker 3: it's somehow leaked into this lifetime or why would that be? 459 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:16,240 Speaker 2: I think it's telling that there's a certain age range 460 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:21,479 Speaker 2: in which children have these incredibly specific memories. A bit 461 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,320 Speaker 2: around children who've just been able to pull out names, 462 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:30,520 Speaker 2: who describe you know, people or circumstances or you know, buildings, 463 00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 2: things that they've never had had access to. You know, 464 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:38,520 Speaker 2: there are two, three, maybe four. Knowing a little bit 465 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:44,040 Speaker 2: about theories of development and memory and the maturation of 466 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:49,280 Speaker 2: the human brain, there's a process that we go through 467 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:53,520 Speaker 2: as we grow into not just our bodies but also 468 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 2: our neurology, where personally, I think it's not that the 469 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:03,360 Speaker 2: world us these memories. It's not like parents have necessarily 470 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:05,800 Speaker 2: told the kids, you know, that's not okay, or shamed 471 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,600 Speaker 2: them into that, although that definitely happens. But I also 472 00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:12,760 Speaker 2: think that as they individuate, as they get more grounded 473 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:18,719 Speaker 2: in this life and acclimate to the body and their 474 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:23,960 Speaker 2: geography and their family, those other memories that come forth 475 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:28,960 Speaker 2: with such clarity in their very formative years become less 476 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 2: relevant because they are in the past. They're from a 477 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:37,200 Speaker 2: life that no longer has any anchor points or any context. 478 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 2: And I do think that people are more likely to 479 00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:44,840 Speaker 2: remember things that are useful to them, things that might 480 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 2: have a resonance in this life, things that maybe teach 481 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:54,120 Speaker 2: them something useful, something survivable here and now. Otherwise again 482 00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 2: it's just stories. 483 00:30:55,640 --> 00:31:00,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, God, that stuff is so fascinating to me. But 484 00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 3: you know, it's I guess that's kind of similar to 485 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 3: the idea that kids can see ghosts, you know, as 486 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:12,960 Speaker 3: they're young, and then as they get older for whatever reason. 487 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:17,400 Speaker 3: There's a lot of theories that ability usually goes away. 488 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:23,040 Speaker 2: Usually Yeah, Usually, I like the theory that some of 489 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:29,160 Speaker 2: the most powerful witches and magical practitioners are children simply 490 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 2: because it never occurs to them as they can't. 491 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:39,960 Speaker 3: Mmmm, right now, what about when we're dealing with children's spirits. 492 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,480 Speaker 1: Does that ring true as well? 493 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 2: Spirits of children who died as children are kind of 494 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:55,920 Speaker 2: a separate and distinct category from spirits that appear as children. 495 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 2: What a ghost human? When someone who is human dies, 496 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:07,760 Speaker 2: usually the first way that they present themselves is as 497 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 2: they remember themselves. It's a little bit like their avatar 498 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:15,960 Speaker 2: and the matrix how they think they should look, and 499 00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:21,040 Speaker 2: that's how they will project themselves to people. But as 500 00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 2: we learned in Tibetan Buddhist teachings, you're not stuck with that. 501 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:31,040 Speaker 2: You have whatever appearance you're able to focus on and 502 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:35,120 Speaker 2: project whatever you are able to really relate to. So 503 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,960 Speaker 2: I've encountered spirits who died in their seventies, died in 504 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:45,160 Speaker 2: their eighties who noetheless appear as children because they choose to, 505 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:50,440 Speaker 2: or because that's where they have anchored, like that's the 506 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:53,680 Speaker 2: best place that they relate to as who they are, 507 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:59,480 Speaker 2: and they're not even necessarily limited to only appearing like that, 508 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:04,840 Speaker 2: they may shift along their own personal timeline. It's taught 509 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:10,240 Speaker 2: me that appearance with spirits at least is also a 510 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:18,680 Speaker 2: method of communication. Ah, they are communicating something with how 511 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:22,320 Speaker 2: they appear and what they project to you, whether that 512 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 2: communication is part of their personality or how they think 513 00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:30,000 Speaker 2: they're going to best relate to you. But appearance is 514 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:38,480 Speaker 2: not static for spirits. That said, children's spirits are I 515 00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:41,120 Speaker 2: don't want to sound horrible about the closest to like 516 00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:43,720 Speaker 2: what I experience with animal spirits, in the sense that 517 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 2: they're very uncomplicated, even if something bad happened to them. 518 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:50,400 Speaker 2: If they're hanging around and their children who died early, 519 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:55,120 Speaker 2: they're there because they want to be. They're there because 520 00:33:56,080 --> 00:34:00,960 Speaker 2: they're still having fun. Very rarely have I encountered genuinely 521 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:06,880 Speaker 2: a human child spirit that I felt was trapped. It 522 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:11,280 Speaker 2: felt more like they wanted to engage and just hadn't 523 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:13,279 Speaker 2: gotten bored yet. 524 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,799 Speaker 1: What about like if they just don't know that they're dead, 525 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:18,560 Speaker 1: Is that a thing? 526 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:23,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, sometimes that's a thing, And that does seem 527 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,400 Speaker 2: to be a little bit more common with children's spirits 528 00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:28,239 Speaker 2: or not only do they not know, they just kind 529 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:34,960 Speaker 2: of don't care if they're engaged. They're happy to still 530 00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:38,720 Speaker 2: run around doing what they're doing. There is some belief 531 00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:43,480 Speaker 2: in various aspects of spiritualism and whatnot that when you 532 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:47,040 Speaker 2: cross over, when you die, you kind of go through 533 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:51,040 Speaker 2: this transformative process where you're opened up to the mysteries 534 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:54,400 Speaker 2: of the universe. It's one of the core principles of 535 00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:59,080 Speaker 2: medieval and Renaissance necromancy, of all things, even Greek and 536 00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:04,200 Speaker 2: Roman necromancy. Crossing over meant that you had some hidden 537 00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:09,080 Speaker 2: knowledge of the world, that you could prognosticate the future, 538 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:12,919 Speaker 2: that you could talk about where burying treasure was. That's 539 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:17,600 Speaker 2: never been my experience. Spirits are a little bit more 540 00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:23,000 Speaker 2: psychic or telepathic. It's kind of the way that they communicate. 541 00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:27,040 Speaker 2: They're a little bit more able to move around once 542 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:33,040 Speaker 2: they figure that out. But it's not like they're all knowing, 543 00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:37,880 Speaker 2: it's not like they're all seeing. So even a child spirit, 544 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:43,040 Speaker 2: they may change a little bit in their psychology and 545 00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:46,520 Speaker 2: the emotional way that they interact with people, but only 546 00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:50,560 Speaker 2: in their own time, only as they learn and grow. 547 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:56,280 Speaker 2: I really think that there's a journey for any soul 548 00:35:56,640 --> 00:36:00,600 Speaker 2: once it's crossed over. We don't stop growing and changing. 549 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:07,800 Speaker 2: We don't stop learning. And that process more than just 550 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:10,680 Speaker 2: sending something into the light, we're casting it out of space. 551 00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:15,480 Speaker 2: That process is how they get over whatever they've been 552 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:18,799 Speaker 2: through and also move on to whatever comes next. 553 00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:21,080 Speaker 1: Yeah. 554 00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:26,560 Speaker 3: I usually end my episodes by rattling off just a 555 00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:31,719 Speaker 3: bunch of paranormal phenomenas, and then my guess, you. 556 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:33,839 Speaker 1: Say, oh, I believe in that, or I heard about 557 00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:37,320 Speaker 1: this or about that, and I'm I feel like I 558 00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:40,520 Speaker 1: might do it with you. It would be a whole 559 00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:41,680 Speaker 1: different story. 560 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,400 Speaker 2: But everything comes down. Everything I believe comes with a 561 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:46,840 Speaker 2: qualification and footnotes. 562 00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:57,960 Speaker 1: I love it though, So here I'll just list ofp 563 00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:00,920 Speaker 1: a couple of things. Just tell me. 564 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:03,680 Speaker 3: I guess it's almost like a word association kind of 565 00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:06,480 Speaker 3: it there. I don't know what what comes to mind. 566 00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:11,239 Speaker 3: Maybe you have a story or something you don't we don't. 567 00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:12,000 Speaker 1: We don't, I don't. 568 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:15,000 Speaker 3: I won't make you tell me everything, but if you 569 00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:18,120 Speaker 3: think it's something to share about these things? 570 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:21,000 Speaker 1: Okay, what about haunted dolls? 571 00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:25,640 Speaker 2: Really cool? My wife hates them? 572 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:29,040 Speaker 1: Have you ever owned one? 573 00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:32,560 Speaker 2: I own several and keeps them an inspiration house because 574 00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:33,920 Speaker 2: see above, my wife hates them. 575 00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:38,600 Speaker 1: Are they about the house. 576 00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:43,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, there are two that have music boxes in them 577 00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:47,800 Speaker 2: and they will play, and that's Clara and Nathan. And 578 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:52,120 Speaker 2: Clara is whatever's attached to Clara. I don't think it's 579 00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:56,360 Speaker 2: a child. It is a bit cheeky and annoying, and 580 00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:58,840 Speaker 2: she is actually the only thing that I've thought about 581 00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:02,680 Speaker 2: buying in her own little space, because she knocks things 582 00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:07,359 Speaker 2: around sometimes and disturbs guests. Most haunted dolls are more 583 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:11,399 Speaker 2: what I would call residual hauntings. The energy, the love, 584 00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:14,520 Speaker 2: the personality that someone has projected on them over a 585 00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:18,239 Speaker 2: long period of time has sort of worked its way 586 00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:22,080 Speaker 2: soaked into the doll itself, and what you're responding to 587 00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:25,799 Speaker 2: is a psychic imprint. But every once in a while 588 00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:28,440 Speaker 2: there's something that has gone, hey, this looks like a 589 00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:32,600 Speaker 2: person just enough for me to want to be connected 590 00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:34,800 Speaker 2: to it and use it as sort of an image 591 00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:35,400 Speaker 2: and an anchor. 592 00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:39,680 Speaker 3: I mean is that it's not unlike what we were 593 00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:43,080 Speaker 3: talking about with psychic vamporism and the obsessing spirits. 594 00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:51,279 Speaker 2: Right object, a doll, a poppet, human image, figurine, Like 595 00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:54,279 Speaker 2: that's really old magic, making something in the shape of 596 00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:59,360 Speaker 2: a person to be host to something thou shalt not 597 00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:02,160 Speaker 2: worship false idols, The idea that you could make an 598 00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:04,080 Speaker 2: idol of a god and the god would inhabit it, 599 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:07,920 Speaker 2: that all is of a piece. The idea that adult 600 00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:08,840 Speaker 2: is a human image. 601 00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:11,040 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I guess so. 602 00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:15,719 Speaker 3: Because Yeah, I mean, I hear about the different haunted objects, 603 00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:18,839 Speaker 3: but it seems like the most common that at least 604 00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:19,600 Speaker 3: I hear about. 605 00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:22,200 Speaker 1: Are they resemble humans? 606 00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:24,640 Speaker 3: I mean, I don't hear a lot about like, oh, 607 00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:27,600 Speaker 3: this haunted bag of Dorito's that. 608 00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:28,920 Speaker 1: I don't know. 609 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:35,000 Speaker 2: It's various things psychologically. Also, it's easy to project a 610 00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:37,840 Speaker 2: lot on again, because they look like us. They have 611 00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:42,920 Speaker 2: a face. Our brains are wired to expect a personality 612 00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:44,000 Speaker 2: on the other side of that face. 613 00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:47,160 Speaker 1: What about Bigfoot? What do you think of that? 614 00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:51,600 Speaker 2: I grew up watching Bigfoot, Wild Boy and like the 615 00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:57,239 Speaker 2: Foggy Creek Monster and all those like weird documentaries from 616 00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:03,000 Speaker 2: the seventies. It would be really cool. I've never seen 617 00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:08,800 Speaker 2: anything out in the woods myself. I'm fascinated by the concept. 618 00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:12,880 Speaker 1: Okay, but you're not ruling it out. It's possible. 619 00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:14,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll rule it out. 620 00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:18,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's probably good. What about like Lockness Monster, same thing. 621 00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:22,640 Speaker 2: I'm a little bit less likely to believe in the 622 00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:29,520 Speaker 2: Lockness Monster, but it's a nice story and certainly a 623 00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:31,480 Speaker 2: good excuse to go to Scotland. Right. 624 00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:36,160 Speaker 1: How about UFOs? 625 00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:40,480 Speaker 2: You Those are one of the things that actually just 626 00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:43,000 Speaker 2: concerts me on a pretty deep level. I had an 627 00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:45,680 Speaker 2: uncle who was in the Air Force in Vietnam. He 628 00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:48,320 Speaker 2: had a really high security clearance and he had something 629 00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:49,919 Speaker 2: to do with Project Blue Book. 630 00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:50,440 Speaker 1: Wow. 631 00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:56,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred percent believed in UFOs. We went UFO watching, 632 00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:59,520 Speaker 2: he and I and I definitely saw a couple of 633 00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:03,759 Speaker 2: weird things while I was with him. I, on like 634 00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:07,680 Speaker 2: a deep, fundamental personal level, cannot bring myself to believe 635 00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:15,640 Speaker 2: in the idea of a physical craft with actual physical beings, 636 00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:18,560 Speaker 2: like in the same way that some people hear ghosts 637 00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:23,000 Speaker 2: and they're just like nah. I have some deep, like 638 00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:26,880 Speaker 2: just something in me resists that if that were to 639 00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:30,640 Speaker 2: actually like land in my backyard and there were aliens 640 00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:33,080 Speaker 2: of any shape size of the description that physically walked out, 641 00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:37,839 Speaker 2: I am not sure what I would do, because there's 642 00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:42,640 Speaker 2: my reality would be like huh, not that I think 643 00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:45,839 Speaker 2: there's no other intelligent life in the universe. It's more 644 00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:50,640 Speaker 2: than I'm like, but why would they bother to be here. Really. 645 00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:57,000 Speaker 2: That said, I don't have a problem thinking about things 646 00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:01,480 Speaker 2: that could move here or travel here, transd interdimensionally through 647 00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:04,680 Speaker 2: some way that isn't strictly physical. I guess it really 648 00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:06,840 Speaker 2: comes down to the fact that I don't know that 649 00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:10,720 Speaker 2: I trust a physical craft to be able to travel 650 00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:12,719 Speaker 2: in a way. It's really hard for me to wrap 651 00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:13,239 Speaker 2: my head around. 652 00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:16,160 Speaker 1: What about time travel? 653 00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:22,520 Speaker 2: That gets weird and loopy. I'm not sure. I like 654 00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:26,040 Speaker 2: to think of time again. Part of my personal worldview 655 00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:29,359 Speaker 2: is pretty linear, but I've also met some people who 656 00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:34,520 Speaker 2: seem to experience it in a really weird way. Not 657 00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:38,360 Speaker 2: going to rule it out, but it comes with so 658 00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:40,480 Speaker 2: many qualifications and questions for me. 659 00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:47,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, okay, here's one more. And this could be 660 00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:50,759 Speaker 1: a lot. You know, there's a lot of things. I mean, 661 00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:52,640 Speaker 1: any of these topics, there's a lot. But I was 662 00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:54,840 Speaker 1: thinking about this. I was reading your book The Idea 663 00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:55,880 Speaker 1: of Curses. 664 00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:02,400 Speaker 2: I think that unfortunately they're used way too often to 665 00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:04,719 Speaker 2: scam people into paying a lot of money to get 666 00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:08,040 Speaker 2: the curse lifted that isn't actually there. But you know, 667 00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:11,760 Speaker 2: is it possible to do something to someone someone magically, 668 00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:16,120 Speaker 2: to bind them to I can see circumstances where something 669 00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:21,800 Speaker 2: would fit the necessary uh qualities to be called a curse. 670 00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:26,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, because like sometimes. 671 00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:31,880 Speaker 3: I've talked about like movies that are cursed, you know, 672 00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:35,719 Speaker 3: allegedly or you know there's and then you can also 673 00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:38,680 Speaker 3: get into conspiracy theories and stuff like that. And the 674 00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:42,279 Speaker 3: Kennedy family has a curse on them, and that's sort 675 00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:42,799 Speaker 3: of a thing. 676 00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:46,240 Speaker 1: I mean, do you think that that's possible. 677 00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:51,040 Speaker 2: I don't know. See I suddenly like the long pause 678 00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:53,480 Speaker 2: with me going back and digging through some of the 679 00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:58,080 Speaker 2: Irish folklore that I inherited from my family. They're definitely 680 00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:02,080 Speaker 2: in Irish family our ideas that you can have like 681 00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:05,840 Speaker 2: a banshee or spirit or a family curse, and that 682 00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:09,520 Speaker 2: curse gets passed on because one of your ancestors broke 683 00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:12,920 Speaker 2: a taboo or made a promise that they didn't carry out. 684 00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:19,320 Speaker 2: From a metaphysical and ethical standpoint, I just have a 685 00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:23,120 Speaker 2: hard time thinking that reality would be that cruel that 686 00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:28,080 Speaker 2: you now could be cursed for some something that one 687 00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:32,960 Speaker 2: of your ancestors five generations ago did. At the same time, 688 00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:40,000 Speaker 2: it makes me wonder about, honestly more a little bit 689 00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:48,240 Speaker 2: about magical lineages or reincarnational stuff that we may carry forward, 690 00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:52,120 Speaker 2: that we might be carrying because of something we did 691 00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:54,919 Speaker 2: in the past and interpret it now as a curse 692 00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:56,480 Speaker 2: because we don't have a better word for it. 693 00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:01,839 Speaker 3: Oh okay, Yeah, it's kind of similar to past life 694 00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:04,320 Speaker 3: stuff and all of that. 695 00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:11,359 Speaker 1: Hmm. Well, Michelle, you've been so generous with your time. 696 00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:15,600 Speaker 2: It's always good talking to you. 697 00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:21,440 Speaker 3: It's like, my brain is so like I'm thinking about 698 00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:24,680 Speaker 3: so many things, and that's what I love. 699 00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:26,320 Speaker 1: I love it. This is great. 700 00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:34,600 Speaker 3: I guess I guess we should wrap it up. But 701 00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:37,719 Speaker 3: you know, can you tell people what you're working on 702 00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:39,640 Speaker 3: and where they can find you in all that stuff? 703 00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:44,440 Speaker 2: Oh, let's see. Everything that you probably want to find 704 00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:48,440 Speaker 2: is at my website at Michelle Belange dot com. If 705 00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:52,640 Speaker 2: you want to learn from my classes, pick my brain 706 00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:56,080 Speaker 2: and my discord and do other things like that, the 707 00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:58,520 Speaker 2: best way to do that is to join my Patreon 708 00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:05,319 Speaker 2: at patreon dot com slash Haunted. That's pretty much where 709 00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:09,800 Speaker 2: I have this awesome community and we do weekly chats 710 00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:16,439 Speaker 2: and there's a ridiculous amount of recorded classes for people 711 00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:17,960 Speaker 2: to poke through. So if you want to hear me 712 00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:21,080 Speaker 2: talk about everything from Wiji boards to fairies to how 713 00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:24,040 Speaker 2: to do in depth energy work. That's the place to go. 714 00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:29,000 Speaker 2: There is my haunted Airbnb inspiration house and you can 715 00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:31,960 Speaker 2: rend that on Airbnb and if you want to catch 716 00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:37,000 Speaker 2: a little taste about it, the World's most Amazing vacation 717 00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:42,319 Speaker 2: rentals on Netflix their Paranormal Places episode. It's the first 718 00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:44,200 Speaker 2: one that they go to and you get to see 719 00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:49,880 Speaker 2: me and a Wiji board session. Woo. Let's see what 720 00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:53,040 Speaker 2: else I'm on sort of media. Oh yeah, Portals to 721 00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:55,960 Speaker 2: Hell and lots of books, a stupid amount of books. 722 00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:01,640 Speaker 2: And currently, on top of everything else, I'm working on 723 00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:07,720 Speaker 2: a couple of games, so we'll see see what happens 724 00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:11,360 Speaker 2: with that. I'm an old school gamer D and D 725 00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:16,719 Speaker 2: and various tabletop role playing games. I wrote material for 726 00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:22,200 Speaker 2: Onyx Paths ghost Hunters supplement for the World of Darkness 727 00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:24,640 Speaker 2: if you are a player of vamp by the Masquerade 728 00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:28,240 Speaker 2: that's coming out fairly soon. They wanted somebody who actually 729 00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:29,960 Speaker 2: does it for a living to write some bits for 730 00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:34,719 Speaker 2: the game, and I'd been writing games and running them 731 00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:38,320 Speaker 2: from like forever ago. As a note, it was definitely 732 00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:41,759 Speaker 2: gen Con and Origins is in Columbus, and that's only 733 00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:43,760 Speaker 2: going to make any sense to other gamers. 734 00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:49,680 Speaker 3: Well, it's always it's so fun to hear about people, 735 00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:54,839 Speaker 3: you know, a psychic, somebody that's very do you call 736 00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:58,200 Speaker 3: yourself an expert or you know, in a cult, in 737 00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:01,520 Speaker 3: the cult de knowledges, all these things that all these 738 00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:04,279 Speaker 3: titles that you have, and then to hear about the 739 00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:07,040 Speaker 3: very human things you know that you like as well, 740 00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:08,000 Speaker 3: like playing games. 741 00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:08,480 Speaker 1: I love that. 742 00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:12,480 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, hardcore gamer keeek, I love it. 743 00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:18,400 Speaker 3: Well, Michelle, you gave us the goods once again, and 744 00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:21,280 Speaker 3: I love it. And I hope that you come back sometime, 745 00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:23,279 Speaker 3: you know, if you got another book, next time you 746 00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:25,680 Speaker 3: have a book coming out or anything, please come back. 747 00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:27,880 Speaker 2: Conversations are always good. Thank you. 748 00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:35,120 Speaker 3: Thank you to Michelle Balane. Get to her website, buy 749 00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:41,080 Speaker 3: her books. She is just the greatest. I'm so happy 750 00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:43,759 Speaker 3: to get to know her, and hopefully one day I'll 751 00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:46,399 Speaker 3: meet her in person and hope to have her back 752 00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:50,520 Speaker 3: again some other time, because wow, has she taken us 753 00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:55,000 Speaker 3: to school and taught as things and she makes me 754 00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:59,719 Speaker 3: feel better about this spooky stuff, to be honest. So 755 00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:01,239 Speaker 3: if you wanna hear a little bit more as we 756 00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:05,040 Speaker 3: talk about the dibbook, go to Patreon dot com slash 757 00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:08,359 Speaker 3: roz dress plus my second tier and on my first tier. 758 00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:10,760 Speaker 3: This week you can watch me and my friend Sam 759 00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:14,439 Speaker 3: driving in the car talking about Halloween. 760 00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:16,839 Speaker 1: Guys for my birthday. 761 00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:22,000 Speaker 3: Please tell your friends about the show and also rate 762 00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:25,200 Speaker 3: it five stars on Apple Podcasts or where you rate 763 00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:29,600 Speaker 3: a podcast five stars. My Patreon is patroon dot com 764 00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:35,040 Speaker 3: slash Rosdressfales. I am on Instagram at Roz Hernandez. We 765 00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:37,200 Speaker 3: have the Facebook group Ghosted. 766 00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:38,480 Speaker 1: By rozdres Fales. 767 00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:43,359 Speaker 3: And also I'd like to do a listener episode soon, 768 00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:48,000 Speaker 3: so please send your listener stories to ghosted by Roz 769 00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:51,040 Speaker 3: at gmail dot com with the subject line listener episode 770 00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:53,800 Speaker 3: and just put a little bit the bullet points of 771 00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:59,200 Speaker 3: what your stories look like. And next week you're gonna 772 00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:02,680 Speaker 3: get to hear and if you'd like, see me as well, 773 00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:07,759 Speaker 3: So be subscribe to the show and look out for that. 774 00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:12,560 Speaker 1: I love you all, both living and dead. But if 775 00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:15,400 Speaker 1: I didn't ask you to haunt me, don't haunt me. 776 00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:31,720 Speaker 1: Came back Star means there a podcast network