1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:03,240 Speaker 1: Before we jump into this podcast, I have to apologize. 2 00:00:03,520 --> 00:00:06,240 Speaker 1: While recording this we picked up some interference that neither 3 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:08,480 Speaker 1: of us could hear. We've did our best to clean 4 00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:11,119 Speaker 1: it up. We hope you enjoy the podcast and thank 5 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:26,079 Speaker 1: you all for listening to Cutting the Distance, because you 6 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 1: all know the sole purpose of this podcast is to 7 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 1: help you find your target animal, get them close, and 8 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:33,839 Speaker 1: ultimately kill the animal as quickly and ethically as possible. 9 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:36,479 Speaker 1: To day, we will be discussing the killing end of 10 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:40,160 Speaker 1: this equation with Daniel Compton of Federal Ammunition. Our focus 11 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 1: in today's conversation will be on shotgun shells while chasing turkeys. 12 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:46,280 Speaker 1: With so many options out there, I hope to dive 13 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: into some of the things I want to know more about, 14 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:52,199 Speaker 1: such as shot size, shot material, shell link, choke options 15 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 1: and everything in between and how they all interact with 16 00:00:54,360 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: each other. So let's jump right in. Welcome to the show. Daniel, Hey, 17 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 1: thanks for having me. It's good to be on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 18 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 1: How's everything going there at Federal Ammunition. It's good, it's good. 19 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: We're we're cranking it out as fast as we can. 20 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:15,120 Speaker 1: Very common question these days is like where's Aliamma? And 21 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:16,679 Speaker 1: I know it's been a little tough for people, but 22 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:19,319 Speaker 1: usually like to address it right away when when I 23 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 1: get on with people. But I can assure you that 24 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:23,760 Speaker 1: we're we're making as fast as we can and getting 25 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 1: as much out there for people so that they can 26 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 1: get out in the fields, especially you know, talking turkeys. Today, 27 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 1: we've actually had we've shipped a lot of turkey rounds 28 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:31,960 Speaker 1: this year, so it should be easier to find than 29 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:34,479 Speaker 1: it has been in the last couple Yeah, I noticed, 30 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 1: just browsing around a little bit, it seems to be, 31 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 1: you know, there there's a lot more in stock than 32 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:41,680 Speaker 1: out of stock compared to years past. Yeah, we made 33 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:43,760 Speaker 1: it very We started really early. Like a lot of 34 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:46,480 Speaker 1: people assume that when we're loading shells that you know, 35 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 1: we'll start and we'll load turkey shows for one month, 36 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 1: you know, like in January. But really to get ahead 37 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 1: of it, what we actually started about mid October this year, 38 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 1: and sometimes we'll even do some smaller runs in the 39 00:01:57,080 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 1: summer just to just try to get ahead of it. 40 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 1: But yeah, we're doing We're doing our best, good deal, 41 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 1: good deal, good good to hear that. Um, So, like 42 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 1: all all of our episodes, we're gonna start with a 43 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 1: h question and answers from our social email past episodes. 44 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 1: If you want to submit your own questions to the podcast, 45 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:16,919 Speaker 1: email us at c t D at Phelps game Calls 46 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 1: dot com. So I picked a couple um easy questions 47 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 1: here kind of with the theme of the podcast today. 48 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:26,799 Speaker 1: What gun choke and ambo combination are using this year 49 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:29,360 Speaker 1: for Turkey? So I'll uh, I'll say, in years past, 50 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: I've used a moss Burgate thirty five with a compin 51 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 1: choke six nine, and I've used um federal three and 52 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 1: a half inch copper plate at number five's. It's just 53 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 1: always throwing great patterns. Um. You know, I've got really 54 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 1: good success with that. My pattern is is pretty consistent. Um. 55 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 1: With that said, this year, I'm going to switch to 56 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 1: the weather be element with an Indian Creek choke and 57 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 1: Federal TSS number nine's and I'm gonna be able to 58 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 1: back down to just the three and shell and not 59 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 1: take you necessarily the beating from the three and a 60 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 1: halfs I have in the in the past. So that's 61 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 1: that's my setup. Um, where are you gonna use this? 62 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 1: Yere Daniel, I'm running. I got a super Black Eagle 63 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 1: two which is kind of my go to shotgun, and 64 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:15,080 Speaker 1: then this year I have UM. Two years ago we 65 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 1: launched UH three, two, seven, and nine TSS combo loads, 66 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:23,200 Speaker 1: so it's about half sevens and half nines and it's 67 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 1: kind of the best of both worlds to get up. 68 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:27,080 Speaker 1: You get your shot pellet count up with all the nines. 69 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 1: The sevens can help you with a little bit of range. 70 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 1: And so I'm gonna try that. I'm you know, I might. 71 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 1: I don't. I get married to some loads that I 72 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 1: really really like. But in my job working on new products, 73 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 1: and I always try to try out what we're what 74 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: we're doing, and so I'll experiment quite a bit. And 75 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 1: you know, if I can kill a turkey with every 76 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 1: load we have, that's kind of my goal. UM, if 77 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 1: I can get my hands on one UM. But Nelly 78 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 1: has launched twenty cages this year in the Super Black 79 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 1: Eagle three, and if I can do that, I'll have 80 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 1: some of our we load some you know, we have 81 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 1: what's called a custom shop where we handload TSS for people, 82 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 1: and I'll try to hunt turkey with the twenty gauge 83 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 1: just to kind of check that box and say I 84 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 1: did it. But if I don't get one in time. 85 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: I got the twelve gauge at the ready. Nice nice, um. 86 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: The next question is what is the ideal pattern? Um? 87 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 1: I remember when I was new to turkey hunting, you know, 88 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 1: way back in high school, didn't know a whole lot 89 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:17,920 Speaker 1: about it. Out here in western Washington. It wasn't a thing. 90 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 1: And everybody had turkey targets, right, and then you would 91 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 1: see you need to put four or five of them 92 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 1: in in the neck or in the head, you know, 93 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:27,280 Speaker 1: combination of And we went down that rabbit hole, and 94 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:29,719 Speaker 1: then you start to look at, well, what's your pattern doing, 95 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 1: if you know, if you were left or right, like, 96 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 1: is it a consistent pattern? And so I've kind of, uh, 97 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:38,360 Speaker 1: you know, migrated to the tennant circle and twenty circle. 98 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 1: How many pellets am I getting in there? And then 99 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 1: I'm checking to make sure I don't have like big 100 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:45,040 Speaker 1: holes in that pattern, you know, could I is there 101 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 1: a chance I would miss the neck or the head. 102 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 1: I just want a very consistent pattern at ten and twenty. 103 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 1: And really why I checked my pattern at twenty with 104 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 1: the twelve gauge is to just make sure how tight 105 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 1: it is, like, how how good do I have to 106 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 1: be you know at twenty, but then at forty yards, 107 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 1: Like what's my lethality? Like how many how many rounds 108 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:03,839 Speaker 1: or how many pelts or babies am I getting inside 109 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:06,919 Speaker 1: of a tennant circle in a twenty circle? Um? You know, 110 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:08,600 Speaker 1: and there are some standard rules of thumb. You know, 111 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: a hundred inside the ten you know at forty is 112 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 1: a good enough load. Um, you know some people are 113 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 1: two inside of a twenty. Um. But but I just 114 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:18,480 Speaker 1: kind of look at that make sure it's consistent nowadays 115 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:21,599 Speaker 1: with TSS number you know, nines or as you said, 116 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:25,160 Speaker 1: seven by nines. Like the the ability to get that 117 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 1: baby count up is is almost, I don't want to 118 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:29,600 Speaker 1: say too easy, but it's become a lot easier than 119 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:33,600 Speaker 1: it did back in the copper plated lead days. Yeah, 120 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:35,359 Speaker 1: we I always went with and kind of what we 121 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: look for when we're developing products is kind of fifteen 122 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 1: hits in the head and neck, no matter what range 123 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 1: you're at. So whether that's lead or copper lead, you know, 124 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 1: if you're doing fifteen and you can't kill a bird with, 125 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:49,000 Speaker 1: you know, you can do under. But that's given you 126 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 1: a lot of insurance, right, And I do like what 127 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:53,599 Speaker 1: you said about the forty in circle because we've always 128 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 1: said like edge to edge pattern and and what that 129 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:59,280 Speaker 1: means is, you know, we want even coverage in those 130 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 1: no holes. And so sometimes we do get so I 131 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: patterned it and I'm getting holes and they get like, so, what, 132 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 1: so what do I do now? And that's what we 133 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:09,920 Speaker 1: recommend you start to kind of try that different choke, 134 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 1: to try different shot size, because there could just be 135 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 1: something with that relationship between that load in your choke 136 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 1: to it that's just not giving you the even as 137 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:20,039 Speaker 1: you're looking for. But we always shoot, like all of 138 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 1: our standard testing is a three ins target at forty yards. 139 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:24,720 Speaker 1: We'll shoot every load we have and then a turkey. 140 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 1: The requirement we had was we're depending on the load 141 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 1: we wanted like of those targets within a tenant circle, 142 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:33,359 Speaker 1: so it's always going to be tight. I love what 143 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:36,280 Speaker 1: you said about shooting at twenty yards because man, if 144 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 1: you're choking tight, you know, you're you're throwing a tennis 145 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:41,040 Speaker 1: ball at them, and it's and it's hard to it's 146 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:43,160 Speaker 1: hard to. You know, you hear a lot of guys 147 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 1: talking about missing turkeys. It's not that it's not as 148 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 1: hard as its sounds. So yeah, yeah, exactly, And that 149 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:50,920 Speaker 1: was always my concern, especially hunting in Western Washington, and 150 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 1: stuff is is that bird's gonna most likely be at 151 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 1: fifteen or twenty. And as tough as these Easterns are 152 00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 1: to hunt in western Washington, because there's just not very 153 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 1: many of them, I didn't want it to, you know, 154 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:03,359 Speaker 1: come down to two tight of a pattern being the reason. 155 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 1: You know, so in that instance, we're just trying to 156 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 1: get him to open up. Those are kind of the 157 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 1: two questions we had today. And now I'm going to 158 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 1: kind of jump in selfishly to like my own own 159 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: questions I have about you know, everything, um, you know, 160 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 1: shotgun loads for turkeys. So the first thing is some 161 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 1: of this new shot material. I know it's been around 162 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 1: um for a little bit, but you know, shot material 163 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 1: and shot size. I grew up, you know, everything was 164 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 1: copperplated lead back. Then heavy shot started to pick up 165 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 1: towards you know the end of when I just like 166 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: I'm done developing my load. I'm just gonna keep buying 167 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: these three and a half inch number five federals um 168 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 1: and and you know some of these day choke companies, 169 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 1: you know, like Compin Choke, which I was shooting back 170 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 1: then they advised again shooting heavy shot, and so I 171 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 1: just didn't even want to like test that um you know, 172 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 1: issue out. But let's jump into shot material and shot 173 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 1: size and what some of the new materials have allowed 174 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:04,560 Speaker 1: us to do to all, you know, denser heavier to 175 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 1: basically allow a BB that's you know, a third of 176 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 1: the diameter you know, or two thirds of diameter to 177 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 1: weigh the same, and how that's changing the way you're 178 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 1: designing um, you know, turkey loads. Yeah, like getting into 179 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: you know, tunguesten you kind of hit on it with 180 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 1: heavy shots. Thirteen density um metals is all, like you know, 181 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 1: ammunition is all. It's mass and velocity together. So it 182 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 1: all comes down to energy. So the denser you can 183 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 1: make something, the more entered, the further it's going to 184 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 1: carry its energy. And I've used an example of a 185 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:39,079 Speaker 1: million times, but they go like tennis balls and baseballs, 186 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 1: you know, they're they're roughly the same size, but there's 187 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:44,320 Speaker 1: just an awful lot more mass to that baseball. And 188 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: if you're gonna fire both those at fifty miles or 189 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 1: you know, miles per hour, which one's gonna hit the 190 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 1: target harder? And it's the baseball because there's just more 191 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 1: mass to it. So that's what the tungsten is in 192 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 1: the analogy. So it allows you to use like you said, 193 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 1: you can use a much small or pellets. So if 194 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:03,839 Speaker 1: you think like because it is fifty six dens, or 195 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 1: think of like a number five copper plated lead and 196 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:09,600 Speaker 1: a number nine ts s tungs of supershot. Those two 197 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 1: have the same amount of density. So if you push 198 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 1: them out of the gun at second, they're gonna hit 199 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:16,959 Speaker 1: the turkey just as hard as they do, even though 200 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:19,840 Speaker 1: that number nine is so much smaller. And then the 201 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 1: wind of the equation is will in announce at three 202 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 1: quarter you have almost three times of pellets as you 203 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 1: did in that copper number five, and you probably went 204 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 1: to a three and a half inch because it's gonna 205 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 1: you can do a little heavier payload and get more 206 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 1: pellets on target. Right, So you know, now tungsten allows 207 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:35,080 Speaker 1: you to get just as many pellets as you did 208 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:37,079 Speaker 1: for a triple what you had before, the same amount 209 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 1: of energy, and you can either come at them with 210 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:41,200 Speaker 1: like a freight train of a two ounce load, or 211 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 1: the trend is really going the other way. You know, 212 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:45,680 Speaker 1: twenty gauge, four ten and sub gauges, and it really 213 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 1: allows you to to take a bird with a lot 214 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:51,560 Speaker 1: lesser recoil on the shoulder, ye pack a smaller gun 215 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 1: around less recoil. Um, we'll get into a little bit, 216 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 1: you know, about how it's made some of these smaller, 217 00:09:56,600 --> 00:10:01,440 Speaker 1: smaller gauged you know shotguns. A great turkey off should know. Um. 218 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:03,040 Speaker 1: With that said, is there anything that goes into the 219 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 1: equation dan of you know, air resistance and all that. 220 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 1: I mean, it all adds up, but I think it 221 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 1: has to do more with you know, like wait, but 222 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:10,840 Speaker 1: you're shooting a little number nine. It doesn't have near 223 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 1: as much wind resistance I've heard. You know, your comparison 224 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 1: to number five copper plated versus number nine is that 225 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 1: when you do get out to forty fift yards that 226 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:21,960 Speaker 1: that number nine might be flying at two feet per 227 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:24,240 Speaker 1: second faster by then or you know number three then 228 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 1: plus once they hit the bird for penetration, you're really 229 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 1: you're able to drive that number nine farther one based 230 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 1: on um, you know, the speed that it's able to 231 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 1: potentially keep going. But then number two less resistance as 232 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:37,840 Speaker 1: it travels through you know, the bird's neck and head 233 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 1: and whatnot. Yeah, absolutely less did that diameter you have, 234 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: the easier it is gonna penetrate, So you're gonna get more. 235 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:46,440 Speaker 1: You're gonna get into the vitals as it flies through 236 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 1: the air. Um Like kind of a rule of thumb 237 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 1: is as shot gets smaller, it does disperse quicker. So 238 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 1: think of like as it scatters to the left and 239 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 1: right of the pattern as it flies. So if we're 240 00:10:56,760 --> 00:10:59,720 Speaker 1: going to lead to lead, absolutely it's a lot you'll 241 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:01,680 Speaker 1: find no matter how much you choke, you gotta choke 242 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 1: really fine shot a lot tighter than you do bigger 243 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 1: shot you know, number five or number nine and lead. 244 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 1: But they do kind of fly on on par because 245 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 1: of that increased density, because it's harder to pull it 246 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 1: off track even though it is a smaller pellet. So 247 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 1: I don't know if that answers the question, but do 248 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:20,320 Speaker 1: you you do see you know, and you really sit 249 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 1: in steel um. If you're shooting steel shot like a 250 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:25,320 Speaker 1: water follower. As your shot sizes go smaller, typically you 251 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:27,840 Speaker 1: may your pattern's gonna start to wind out. And it's 252 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 1: because those smaller pellets they lose the energy quicker, but 253 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 1: they're a lot easier to kick to the left or right. 254 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 1: You know, um one thing you know that that kind 255 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:41,439 Speaker 1: of piggybacks on that point is uh there, there's always 256 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:43,560 Speaker 1: gotta be callins right, and we'll get into the main one, 257 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 1: which is costing a little bit, but the safety become 258 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 1: any bigger issue. I mean, ultimately we should always know 259 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 1: our our target, identify or backdrop. But with these extended 260 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:54,560 Speaker 1: ranges that we're getting out of, you know, especially if 261 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 1: you're down in those heavier loads of you know, six 262 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 1: or number five TSS, like is that has that been 263 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:02,320 Speaker 1: an issue or something we think about her? Like I said, 264 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:04,560 Speaker 1: as long as we're identifying targets, you know, looking at 265 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:07,840 Speaker 1: it backdrops and where that that you know that shot 266 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 1: is ultimately gonna land, is it? Is it not? It 267 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 1: should be a non issue. It should be because you 268 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 1: know your typical hunting rules apply. You know, you know 269 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:17,400 Speaker 1: what's behind your target beyond. But it is. I mean 270 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:19,199 Speaker 1: if you're using a bigger you know, we don't load 271 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:22,440 Speaker 1: anything bigger in a seven in TSS and kind of 272 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 1: part of that reason, it's going to carry its energy 273 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 1: a long way, So you really got to know what's 274 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 1: behind you and you don't like think of. You know, 275 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 1: if I was gonna shoot a turkey with number six 276 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:34,839 Speaker 1: lead at forty yards and there's another turkey about two 277 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 1: yards away, you know, in the field behind it, I 278 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:39,439 Speaker 1: probably don't gotta worry about it. With the TSS, it 279 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 1: very well could carry its energy enough to to hit 280 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:44,719 Speaker 1: something behind it. So, you know, other animals, you have 281 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 1: to make sure your safety there. But for for other hunter, 282 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: you sure. So it is something to be to be 283 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 1: aware of. We've seen it on we have some tongue 284 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 1: stint in um goose loads and and heavy shot has 285 00:12:57,800 --> 00:12:59,679 Speaker 1: stories of this as well. Where you know, guys are 286 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 1: in the few old the Parker trucks, you know, foreigner 287 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:03,120 Speaker 1: yards away. I think it's plenty fine, and they'll find 288 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:05,679 Speaker 1: pepper holes from the hardness of the tongues and actually 289 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:08,160 Speaker 1: penetrating the windshield at foreigner yards. No, that's a much 290 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:10,960 Speaker 1: higher trajectory. But you know, you do got to be 291 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 1: careful for sure, gotcha with the you know, the introduction 292 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 1: of TSS and catching a bunch of steam. You can't 293 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:19,480 Speaker 1: jump on a turkey hunting form right now and not 294 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:22,440 Speaker 1: see everybody. You know that shooting at TSS load is 295 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 1: bismuth and and heavy shot and even comperplated lead is. 296 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:27,199 Speaker 1: I mean, we're gonna start to see that phase out. 297 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 1: I mean, why has bismuth not caught on, you know, 298 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:33,200 Speaker 1: as much for for sharing very similar densities the TSS 299 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:36,320 Speaker 1: is it costs it. They both seem to be environmental friendly. 300 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:40,360 Speaker 1: But it seems like everybody's migrated towards t s S. Yeah, 301 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 1: it seems you know. The when we first launched the 302 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 1: t S S I, you know, we were talking internally 303 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 1: and we'd always had a productoled Heavyweight, which is fifteen 304 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 1: density tongues and which was great and people loved it, um, 305 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 1: but you know, our sales weren't as high as we 306 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 1: kind of wanted, and we just assumed that market is 307 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:01,600 Speaker 1: what it is. And so my boss was like, what 308 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 1: do we got do in Turkey? And I said, you know, 309 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 1: if we want to load the best Turkey loads on 310 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 1: the market, will load this ts S stuff. It's super expensive, 311 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 1: We'll only sell, you know a little bit, but we 312 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 1: will have the best Turkey load on the market. And 313 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 1: that first year we sold four times what we thought 314 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 1: and now we sell almost four times what we ever 315 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 1: did in Turkey loads. So it is a price barrier. 316 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: It's a lot higher um. But it seems that I 317 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 1: don't know it had like this mythic kind of reputation 318 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 1: before that. You know, a couple of smaller animal companies 319 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 1: were doing it, or normally you had a handloader buddy 320 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 1: who knew somebody you could, you know, load you up TSS. 321 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 1: So it is a lot more costly. It seems like 322 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 1: people have accepted it. In terms of Bismus, It's it's 323 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 1: kind of tough to say, and I think it's still 324 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 1: kind of a new, a new thing where people are looking. 325 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 1: I know it's one place in our lineup. We haven't 326 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 1: had a bismus offering yet. We're looking at doing that 327 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 1: for turkey. I know some like I will say, have 328 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 1: you shot a lot? There a sister company of ours 329 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 1: now and I know that they offer it and it 330 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 1: does sell well, especially states like California where everything is 331 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 1: required to be let free. I think there's always going 332 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 1: to be the market for the price point, and some people, 333 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 1: you know, get turned off by it. If if turkey 334 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 1: hunting was more like waterfowl hunting or the volume you know, 335 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 1: you're you're burning through shells left and right, there might 336 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 1: be somewhat of a barrier. But most people, if you're 337 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 1: shooting over five rounds a turkey a year, you know 338 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 1: you're shooting a lot. So I think it's I think 339 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 1: it's a little easier for people to bite off. Yeah, 340 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 1: so you you kind of touched on it there a 341 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 1: little bit. Is you know, I would say maybe the 342 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:31,520 Speaker 1: only con I can find with UM TSS is either 343 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 1: you know, your choke not allowing it a little bit 344 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 1: of scarring of the barrel. But the number one I 345 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 1: think would be the cost of the material. Um it's 346 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 1: fairly expensive ammunition. But when you go to buy just 347 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 1: I believe it was a pound of number nine shot, 348 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 1: you're like in the five dollar range, you know, and 349 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 1: it's just it's expensive, expensive babies, and uh so you 350 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 1: want to jump into that a little bit and then 351 00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:55,520 Speaker 1: maybe roll that into you know why maybe third degree 352 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 1: is a great alternative where you're not feeling your entire 353 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 1: payload of shot with as you're able to mix and 354 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 1: get a you know, as you mentioned earlier, some of 355 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 1: the reasons why number seven and five and six lead 356 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 1: may work. But can you touch on the cost of 357 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 1: the TSS loads and then why third degree might be 358 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 1: a a good alternative for a turkey load. Yeah. Absolutely, 359 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 1: I'm gonna hit us that you you said quick though 360 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 1: you said about scoring the barrel. Uh, we really design 361 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 1: our wads to be incredibly robust to prevent that. So 362 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 1: just so some people know, even even like on something 363 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 1: like a four ten or twenty gage though, it's everything 364 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:30,920 Speaker 1: is we make specific wads to event that, so that's 365 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:32,720 Speaker 1: not not as much of a risk. I can't speak 366 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 1: for all the choke to companies out there. Um, And 367 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 1: sometimes we'll get into chokes a little bit later. We'll 368 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 1: talk about constricting tight, I guess, but if you're gonna 369 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 1: go really tight, some some companies may recommend it, but 370 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 1: some people do recommend it as well. Um. But yeah, 371 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 1: it's you know, like you said, at eighty bucks a pound, 372 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 1: we buy you know, we buy our lead and steel 373 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 1: off the kind of world market prices of the lead 374 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 1: that we use a federal comes from recycled car batteries. 375 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:01,080 Speaker 1: A lot of people don't necessarily know that, so we um, 376 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 1: you know, we try to get a break on the 377 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 1: price there. But you know, they break the batteries down, 378 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 1: they melt it down, they make it into the alloys 379 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 1: we want and you know world market price and letters 380 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:13,200 Speaker 1: deals like a buck twenty, we're still a pound dollar 381 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 1: a pound, and we're buying tungsten anywhere between forty and 382 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:20,119 Speaker 1: sixty bucks a pound, So that's like significant costs increase. 383 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 1: It's a lot harder to work with, and once it's formed, 384 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:25,879 Speaker 1: it's really hard to melt it back down and reuse 385 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 1: it into something. So um, so that adds some of 386 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: the price, you know, um, and we've out, we've we're 387 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 1: always searching for you know, less of uh more inexpensive 388 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:39,399 Speaker 1: ways to obtain it, but so far that just seems 389 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:41,480 Speaker 1: to be kind of where we are. So and then 390 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:43,160 Speaker 1: so when you get in a third degree, like it's 391 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:44,920 Speaker 1: like a great part of all the properly third degree 392 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 1: it's about a third TSS and two thirds of lead, 393 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 1: So it's a combo load for us. And what you're 394 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 1: doing with that kind of dovetails into what we're talking 395 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 1: about with the really tight patterns to when we came 396 00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 1: up with third degree, like in our brain is the 397 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:01,879 Speaker 1: best pattern would almost kind of like veer out to 398 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:04,200 Speaker 1: the left and right like a baseball diamond and then 399 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:07,560 Speaker 1: turn into a rectail rectangle and go straightforward you know, 400 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 1: you it would open up real quick and then fly 401 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 1: and never disperse any further. Because if you are you 402 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 1: got a really tight bird, and you know, hopefully you've 403 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:17,840 Speaker 1: got decoys in tight you can call them in clothes 404 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 1: because I mean that's the funnest part of turkey hunting. 405 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:23,359 Speaker 1: And uh and so we thirty, we're like, what if 406 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:25,680 Speaker 1: we can make the pattern open up quicker but still 407 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 1: give us effective lethality at forty yards. So we put 408 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:32,440 Speaker 1: in number seven tunks in at the fifteen density tungs 409 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:33,960 Speaker 1: and at the time now it's t s S. We 410 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 1: have number seven t s s. We have number five 411 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:38,960 Speaker 1: comperplated the lead which people have been hunting with forever 412 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:40,639 Speaker 1: as the core of the pattern, and then we have 413 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:43,679 Speaker 1: number six flight stopper lead it's called which has this 414 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:46,639 Speaker 1: little ring around it, and that stuff scatters a little faster. 415 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:49,119 Speaker 1: So your pattern between you know, it is about twenty 416 00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 1: and thirty percent bigger at ten to fifteen yards, and 417 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 1: then after that it just kind of rounds out into 418 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 1: this nice even turke and pattern, you know, to to 419 00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 1: get you out to forty and those ones. The third 420 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:04,240 Speaker 1: degree seems to run at about half of the T 421 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:06,639 Speaker 1: S is even less than that thirty ninety nine compared 422 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:09,600 Speaker 1: to like say you know your your nine for the 423 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:12,160 Speaker 1: same size. You know, yeah, absolutely, it's it's a lot 424 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 1: more of a lot more affordable version to to bite 425 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 1: off and you're you know, so you're getting tungsten performance 426 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:19,720 Speaker 1: with it. So it does pretty well for us. It was. 427 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 1: If you're you know, there's there's different kind of turkey 428 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:25,119 Speaker 1: hunters out there's some people want as many pellets as 429 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 1: possible in that tennant circle. Some people want like like 430 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 1: you were talking, a nice even pattern if you're even 431 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:32,880 Speaker 1: you know, we didn't. We've always said we didn't make 432 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 1: third degree to win pattern caught you pellet count contest. 433 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:38,160 Speaker 1: We've built it to kill turkeys, and it's it's proved 434 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 1: itself to do that. Um, I'm gonna throw a little curveball. 435 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:43,960 Speaker 1: I yes, since it wasn't on our my list of 436 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:47,359 Speaker 1: questions here. But when we talk about lethality and range, 437 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:51,639 Speaker 1: you know where these shots are, Um, you're gonna be lethal. 438 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:54,480 Speaker 1: What's your standard? And then if you can maybe give 439 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:56,359 Speaker 1: me an example of like what's the number nine T 440 00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:59,200 Speaker 1: S S good for? Like can you kill out to 441 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:02,919 Speaker 1: sixty yards? We're you know, compared to like, uh, number 442 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:05,679 Speaker 1: five lead you know it's good out to fifty yards max. 443 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:07,160 Speaker 1: You know what we used to always go on MAX 444 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:08,680 Speaker 1: is like well, if you shoot number six is don't 445 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:10,920 Speaker 1: shoot past thirty five. And if you shoot number five, 446 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 1: don't shoot past forty and if you shoot number four 447 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 1: as you can kill a bird, you know, And so 448 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 1: we used to just go by the old you know, 449 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:19,960 Speaker 1: rules of thumb. But what does that new UM range do? 450 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 1: You know? As far as TSS, I know you guys 451 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:24,160 Speaker 1: only have number seven is your biggest. You know nine 452 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:26,440 Speaker 1: is your smallest. But what would you say, like the 453 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:31,120 Speaker 1: the average ranges are for those? Yeah, we any leadload, 454 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 1: you know, we'll stick to that forty UM if it's 455 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:35,359 Speaker 1: a twenty gage in little lighter you know, maybe a 456 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 1: little in it, and then pattern your gun and see 457 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 1: what your patterns are doing. You're gonna carry inn you know, 458 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:41,400 Speaker 1: at the velocities we're going, you're gonna have moren enough 459 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:43,920 Speaker 1: energy to kill a turkey out to forty And we've 460 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:47,719 Speaker 1: always heard stories of people who go beyond that. With TSS. 461 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 1: You I will easily say fifty fifty is easy, and 462 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:53,400 Speaker 1: I know you can go beyond that and I've heard 463 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:56,879 Speaker 1: stories of outrageous, outlandish type of ranges that people have 464 00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 1: shot turkeys at. As a company stance, and personally, I'll 465 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:02,960 Speaker 1: probably always stick to that fifty and then anything else 466 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:05,640 Speaker 1: is up kind of the hunter to decide beyond that. 467 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 1: You know, we still want to promote you know, ethical 468 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 1: hunting in you know, just as you start to get 469 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:15,120 Speaker 1: further out, things can start to just you know, variables change, 470 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:17,640 Speaker 1: everything can start to expand. I know, if you were 471 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:20,600 Speaker 1: to pattern your gun, you're gonna see you know, lead 472 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:22,679 Speaker 1: number five, Like let's say you're stuting announce in three 473 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 1: quarter number nine out of a twelve age, your pattern 474 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:28,879 Speaker 1: density is probably gonna match a copper plate at number 475 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 1: five out to seventy yards more than likely, and that 476 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:34,960 Speaker 1: pellet would have enough energy to kill a turkey that far. 477 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 1: I would never tell anybody to go out and do 478 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:42,240 Speaker 1: I know, I know people do, but what it really 479 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 1: does is like one of the first, the first turkey 480 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:48,320 Speaker 1: ever shot. I was out with a good friend of 481 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:49,960 Speaker 1: mine's dad and he was one of my teachers and 482 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:52,159 Speaker 1: kind of a mentor, you know that you kind of 483 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 1: taught me out of turkey on which was great. But 484 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 1: we were out and uh, we'd set up on them 485 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:00,720 Speaker 1: and they they hung out or you know, we got 486 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:02,480 Speaker 1: a gobble and we didn't hear anything. It never came back. 487 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 1: And as soon as we stood up the walk, we 488 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:05,879 Speaker 1: looked out and wail out in this field was a 489 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 1: top working his way towards us. So we belly crawled 490 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 1: to the edge of the field and he's like, how 491 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:11,679 Speaker 1: far is And I'm like, God's far, you know, and 492 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 1: uh and so it was like the last hour, last day. 493 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:17,200 Speaker 1: It took a season. So I popped up and I thought, 494 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 1: I'm thinking it's fifty yards and boom, and I smoked 495 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:20,919 Speaker 1: him and just dropped him on the site. And that 496 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 1: was with our old heavyweight sixes. And when we ranged 497 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 1: it off, it was sixty five yards that I killed 498 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:28,240 Speaker 1: the bird. Had Now, if he would have said your 499 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 1: sixty five yards, I would have belly crawled fifteen yards 500 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,520 Speaker 1: closer because I probably wouldn't have had the confidence to 501 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:36,359 Speaker 1: do it. So what what it kind of allows you 502 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:38,440 Speaker 1: to do is this that forgiveness factor. You know, we're 503 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:40,840 Speaker 1: excited or we don't have good ranging, and so it's 504 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 1: gonna make up some of that your your potential error 505 00:22:43,520 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 1: for rangings. One of the things that I'm most excited 506 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:06,719 Speaker 1: about UM with TSS and some of these new movements, 507 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:08,119 Speaker 1: and we touched on a little bit, is that the 508 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 1: twelve gauge is a little less required now. You know, 509 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:13,240 Speaker 1: back in the day, everybody was shooting you know, big 510 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 1: twelve gauges, you know, three and a half inch magnums. 511 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:18,479 Speaker 1: And I feel that with you know, youth becoming more 512 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 1: involved and maybe being a little bit nervous to shoot 513 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 1: twelve gauges and you know they'm wanting to shoot, you know, 514 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:25,680 Speaker 1: youth youth twenty gauges or even four tens. I feel 515 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,919 Speaker 1: like that's been the biggest positive from this, aside from 516 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:31,199 Speaker 1: getting better patterns with our our bigger twelve gages, is 517 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 1: that now these kids can go out in a four 518 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:36,680 Speaker 1: ten is a very good option for for killing turkeys now, 519 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 1: you know, and you know, twenty eight and twenty gauges 520 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 1: are you know, performed very similar to the old twelve gauges. 521 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 1: UM have you guys noticed a big movement in in 522 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,960 Speaker 1: the four ten market and the turkey UM ammunition world? 523 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:50,200 Speaker 1: UM is is it picks up steam and allows these 524 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 1: youth to shoot a gun. They're a lot more comfortable 525 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 1: with um out in the Turkey Woods. Yeah, it's been. 526 00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 1: It's been remarkable and one of like the you know, 527 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 1: we knew it's the right of possible. Looked at all 528 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 1: the energy in your your four ten at a you know, 529 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 1: our load is thirteen sixteen silence of number nine' that 530 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 1: is uh if I remember at two pellets and an 531 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 1: ounce in three quarter of number five lead is two 532 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 1: hundred and sixty eight pellets, give or take. So it's 533 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:20,439 Speaker 1: a little higher pellet count, but their speeds put them 534 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,679 Speaker 1: at the same energy, So you're basically shooting with your 535 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:27,040 Speaker 1: old twelve gage load at you know, a lot less recoil. 536 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:29,400 Speaker 1: So we we put out the four ten and even 537 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 1: some of the because of the price barrier, you know, 538 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:33,680 Speaker 1: even some of our retailers that first. So like you 539 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:35,680 Speaker 1: guys are sounding turkey loads at four ten, you know 540 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:36,920 Speaker 1: what I mean, what are you? What are you doing? 541 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 1: And you know it's gonna cost as much And it's 542 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:43,680 Speaker 1: been like, you know, the real shining star of the lineup. 543 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,480 Speaker 1: We we sell almost as much four ten and one 544 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 1: skew as we do of the four or five twelve 545 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,159 Speaker 1: gage loads that we have in TSS. And I know 546 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:55,439 Speaker 1: some of that's carrying over you know, well, well your 547 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:58,119 Speaker 1: stories of you know, kids shooting the four ten, you know, 548 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:00,200 Speaker 1: goose hunting, you know, they're using the same low to 549 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:02,680 Speaker 1: you know, or they're taking the kid duck hunting, or 550 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:04,720 Speaker 1: or adults you know, or are using it. So we 551 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:06,960 Speaker 1: know there's some crossover and to other stuff. But it's 552 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:08,920 Speaker 1: really like it's kind of like this, you know, I said, 553 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 1: check the box with twenty cages. A lot of people 554 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:13,239 Speaker 1: are saying, I'm gonna kill turkey with the four ten, 555 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:15,720 Speaker 1: and you know, gun companies are coming up with a 556 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:17,960 Speaker 1: lot of single shots with red dots that are making 557 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 1: you know, super light gun, making it really easy. You know, 558 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,520 Speaker 1: companies are coming out with four ten chokes. So it's 559 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:26,199 Speaker 1: really you know, created this kind of submarket within it. 560 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:29,240 Speaker 1: And I'm I'm like you, I don't own a twenty 561 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,159 Speaker 1: gauge right now that you know fits me. You know, 562 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 1: I have. I still had to use one from when 563 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 1: I was a kid. Um, but that's probably gonna be 564 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 1: my next purchase is a like a four ten single 565 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:40,920 Speaker 1: shot that I'll that I'll use as a little little 566 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:44,160 Speaker 1: turkey sniper. Yeah, my buddy Randy Milligan, who we going 567 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:46,639 Speaker 1: hunt without there in Kansas. He's always given me grief. 568 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:48,399 Speaker 1: He's like, don't shoot this twenty gauge because you'll never 569 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,359 Speaker 1: shoot your twelve gauge ever. Again, you know, he's just 570 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:53,480 Speaker 1: amazing patterns um with some of that new and then 571 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:56,399 Speaker 1: and that's like you said, it's a shining star. Like 572 00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,120 Speaker 1: if if this is able to get you know, more 573 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:01,400 Speaker 1: youth out there with them more effective round shooting a gun, 574 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,760 Speaker 1: they're more comfortable with. It's it's only positives, um, you know, 575 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,400 Speaker 1: from from some of this new ammunition. So kudos there. 576 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 1: I was just at the end of w t F 577 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:14,160 Speaker 1: show last week, and uh, I mean a majority we 578 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:16,040 Speaker 1: we had we were fortunate to get quite a few 579 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 1: shells shipped in there and a majority of what people 580 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,720 Speaker 1: were seeking out was four ten um coming up just 581 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,480 Speaker 1: for for that story. So yeah, it's been, it's been. Uh, 582 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 1: it's been. It's been really cool. That's awesome. I'm gonna 583 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:30,760 Speaker 1: touch on wads a little bit and and what the 584 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 1: heck do those things matter? And I always kind of 585 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 1: joke is that they just seemed to be a little 586 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:36,680 Speaker 1: piece of plastic that I step over to go check 587 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 1: my target or to you know that that pile up, 588 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 1: you know, on a waterfall shoot that'll end up about 589 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,680 Speaker 1: the same range from you. Um the some of these 590 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 1: new TSS loads are using UM flight control flex wads. 591 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:50,840 Speaker 1: You know, some of your older AMMO and maybe some 592 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 1: of your stuff still is using like the flight control 593 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:55,480 Speaker 1: and you know, you know the way that these things 594 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 1: open up. You know, they've got the mid body slits 595 00:26:58,040 --> 00:26:59,880 Speaker 1: and then they opened from the rear with the petals, 596 00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:02,240 Speaker 1: and you can you give us a little education because 597 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,000 Speaker 1: to be honest, like I've never paid that much attention 598 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 1: to to what those are actually doing, and they may 599 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 1: be probably you know, the most important part of the whole, 600 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 1: you know, equation. Yeah, it really is. Like for people 601 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,720 Speaker 1: who don't understand what wad is is inside your shotgun shell. 602 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 1: You gotta usually some kind of carrier mechanism that you 603 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 1: are shot is inside of, and that carry mechanism carry it, 604 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:22,639 Speaker 1: helps carry it down the barrel and then as it 605 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,760 Speaker 1: exits separates from the shot lets it fly through the air. 606 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 1: UM Old shotgun shells would just have a felt wad 607 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 1: and if you didn't have any sort of choke system, 608 00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 1: it would disperse really quickly. You know, like are like 609 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 1: kind of the minimum acceptable pattern, you know, for a 610 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:40,360 Speaker 1: target load or a hunting load. You know, the standard 611 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 1: that we're looking for as an industry is like sev 612 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:47,080 Speaker 1: of your pellets are within a forty in circlet circle 613 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 1: at forty yards. So wad design can make a big 614 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:54,000 Speaker 1: effect on how many pellets fit in there and also 615 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,280 Speaker 1: the size of the pellets. So a typical WAD goes 616 00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:59,639 Speaker 1: open and it opens up like a flower pedal, you know, 617 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,560 Speaker 1: it just breads out like you're opening up the fingers 618 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,920 Speaker 1: of your hand. You can't see me on camera, but um, 619 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,160 Speaker 1: and then that can fly through your pattern. It can 620 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:11,880 Speaker 1: allow just nice dispersion. It can disrupt the pattern potentially. 621 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,400 Speaker 1: It just depends on the WAD system. So the flight 622 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 1: control wad, and you mentioned the flake control flex wad. 623 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 1: The flake control WAD was designed so that the gun 624 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:23,119 Speaker 1: goes off, the wad comes out the barrel. It's a 625 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 1: fixed tube on the front and on the back it 626 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:27,879 Speaker 1: has these petals and as the muzzle pressure that big 627 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:31,560 Speaker 1: muzzle blash boom, it flares the petals out and it 628 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:33,600 Speaker 1: acts like a parachute or an air brake, and it 629 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,000 Speaker 1: makes the wad kind of slow down and lets the 630 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,440 Speaker 1: shot go forward in this really uniform way, and so 631 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 1: that's how you get nice even patterns, and that's what 632 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 1: the flack control wad is known for. When you hear 633 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 1: flake control Flex, which is in all of our loads. Now, 634 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 1: when we first came out with you know, um Turkey 635 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 1: loads in flag control and then you know, black Cloud 636 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:55,880 Speaker 1: was our steel load and Prairie STRM is lead. If 637 00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:58,719 Speaker 1: you were using a ported choke tube, you're kind of 638 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 1: directing some of that muzzle last the side before the 639 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 1: ammal gets out the barrel. And so by reducing that 640 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,680 Speaker 1: muzzle pressure, it wouldn't open the fins up on the 641 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:09,080 Speaker 1: back of the of the wad. And if the fin 642 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:11,880 Speaker 1: don't don't open up, then the wad doesn't necessarily slow down. 643 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 1: It all just kind of flies with the shot and 644 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 1: it's really tight erratic clump. So the flex squad was 645 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:19,959 Speaker 1: designed so that if you are using like you know, 646 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 1: there was a day where I would say, no, you 647 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 1: can't use that Indian Creek con Federal it's just not 648 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:25,720 Speaker 1: gonna work, you know, But now you can. We've made 649 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 1: it so that you can use any port of choke 650 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:29,960 Speaker 1: tube on any one of our flight control products. That 651 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:32,720 Speaker 1: says flight the flex bad. You know your beIN takeaway 652 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:34,200 Speaker 1: from this. You can shoot it through any choke too, 653 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 1: and it really helps you get tight and consistent edge 654 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:41,400 Speaker 1: to edge pattern. Gotcha. So the analogy is like you know, 655 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:44,400 Speaker 1: some of the other uh wads out there, you're like 656 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:46,880 Speaker 1: hitting a tree going sixty to zero, you know, very 657 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 1: very quickly, as soon as those petals open up, the 658 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:52,120 Speaker 1: walls gonna breakaway. Versus what you're saying with maybe like 659 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:55,080 Speaker 1: the flight control flex is you're gonna slowly just apply 660 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:56,720 Speaker 1: the brakes to slow down to zero. You're not gonna 661 00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 1: just like smash in, you know, and it goes to 662 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:02,120 Speaker 1: sixty to zero, You're gonna slow, slowly back away and 663 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:04,480 Speaker 1: and then that way you can control that that pattern 664 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:06,400 Speaker 1: a little more. You know, you wanted to be tight, 665 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 1: but you don't want it to like you said, if 666 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 1: if that shot stayed in the cup, you don't want 667 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,240 Speaker 1: it to be basically a slug, you know, acting like 668 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 1: a slug as it goes down range. So it's just 669 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:17,480 Speaker 1: a better way to control that process. Yeah, it's a 670 00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:19,760 Speaker 1: great it's a great analogy. When when I was working 671 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 1: before I worked at Federal, I remember a guy told 672 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 1: me he had turkey hunted with some of our copper 673 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:28,480 Speaker 1: plate and lead and uh. And when I worked, I 674 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:30,000 Speaker 1: work three Like a moment, he goes man, I hit 675 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:31,960 Speaker 1: the turkey, I flipped them over and he got up 676 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:33,560 Speaker 1: and ran away. And when he went over there, he 677 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:35,080 Speaker 1: picked up the wad and he was able to pour 678 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:36,920 Speaker 1: the shot out of it. And then he researched a 679 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:39,120 Speaker 1: little bit and he had a really heavy ported tube. 680 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:41,200 Speaker 1: And that was kind of my first lesson before I 681 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 1: was even a company guy, on on what choke tubes 682 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:45,760 Speaker 1: to shoot with, federal or not. So part of my 683 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,000 Speaker 1: mission when I got on the shot Cell products was 684 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:49,640 Speaker 1: working with development team and say how can we make 685 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:51,440 Speaker 1: this thing work through any choke tube, no matter what. 686 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:53,520 Speaker 1: We just want to make it easy on any consumer. 687 00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:55,440 Speaker 1: And then it just comes down to, you know, choke 688 00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 1: tube combinations with the right gun you happen, and so 689 00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 1: one it might be a little different. I'm gonna ask 690 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 1: you just a personal question for myself. I got that 691 00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,080 Speaker 1: Indian tree. You know we're gonna get into chokes here 692 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,200 Speaker 1: in a second, but um, you know they have what 693 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:09,880 Speaker 1: their their wad stripper or whatever. It basically a very 694 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,240 Speaker 1: very minute constriction as it goes through that choke. Um, 695 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:15,040 Speaker 1: does that have any effect on your guys water? Is 696 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:16,520 Speaker 1: it designed to kind of work with that? Or if 697 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:20,240 Speaker 1: you guys did any testings without specific you know, design idea. 698 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,720 Speaker 1: We did a lot. I don't know the specific model 699 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:25,480 Speaker 1: that that you have off top of my head, but 700 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:29,560 Speaker 1: the Indian Creek, I believe at six diameter was one 701 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:33,160 Speaker 1: of our core development chokes that we used when we 702 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:34,520 Speaker 1: went through because they had a you know, they had 703 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:35,840 Speaker 1: a pretty good name. A lot of people in the 704 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,320 Speaker 1: Turkey market were familiar with them, and we tested a 705 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:39,960 Speaker 1: lot of others, but that was one that that I 706 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,120 Speaker 1: wanted to make sure that we got through. So I 707 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 1: think you're gonna be just fine. Yeah, perfect, perfect. That's 708 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,080 Speaker 1: that's reassuring. Since it's a brand new setup, so I 709 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,480 Speaker 1: haven't put it all together yet, but let's use that 710 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:52,960 Speaker 1: as our say way right into patterning. Um, you know, 711 00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,280 Speaker 1: choking constriction. Um, you know the question which kind of 712 00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:58,400 Speaker 1: goes back what we've already talked about, can too much 713 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,520 Speaker 1: choke be a bad thing? Everything you've always heard about 714 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 1: Turkey chokes, you know, they're considered extra extra extra fool 715 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 1: or extra extra fool. Um. And then some of the 716 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 1: new advice out there, especially with like you know, TSS 717 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,080 Speaker 1: is like, well, maybe just want to go full or 718 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:14,880 Speaker 1: you know, modified or whatever it may be. So what 719 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,200 Speaker 1: can you kind of tell us about, um, you know, 720 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:19,960 Speaker 1: your your understanding of chokes, how much is too much? 721 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 1: You know TSS versus letting just kind of give us 722 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:25,880 Speaker 1: the rundown of what works best with federal turkey loads. 723 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,720 Speaker 1: Sure like like around that that six six seems to 724 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:32,719 Speaker 1: be pretty solid, but I know people go tighter and 725 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:34,960 Speaker 1: and there's a big relationship between you know, how is 726 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 1: the are the forcing cones of this model of shotgun 727 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 1: versus that shotgun, and that's gonna affect the amount of pressure. 728 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:43,440 Speaker 1: You know, your pattern is greatly affected by the length 729 00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:45,800 Speaker 1: of barrel on the gun. And then you know how 730 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,920 Speaker 1: much the forcing gun is redirecting the amount of pressure 731 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:51,800 Speaker 1: as the load comes down the barrel, and how amount 732 00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:56,280 Speaker 1: of time that takes um. So there's always a relationship there. 733 00:32:56,280 --> 00:33:00,080 Speaker 1: But you'll find that your typical turkey choke constrictions in all. So, 734 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,680 Speaker 1: like if you're if your gun came with a turkey choke, 735 00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:05,880 Speaker 1: I don't know what that diameter might be. It's a 736 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:09,280 Speaker 1: good place to start it'll probably work pretty well through it. Now, 737 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:11,720 Speaker 1: if you want to get more specialized and try other things. 738 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,640 Speaker 1: I know that like the guys from truelock have told 739 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:18,400 Speaker 1: us you can choke number nine's really really tight. Like 740 00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:20,160 Speaker 1: I think there might be be down to like a 741 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,959 Speaker 1: six forty, which is really really tight. You know, we're 742 00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 1: kind of talking to industry jargon in a way that's 743 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:29,280 Speaker 1: incredibly tight constriction um. But sevens they wouldn't go below 744 00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:31,160 Speaker 1: six fifty because they said if they did that, the 745 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 1: pattern started to blow up. So you're you're like over 746 00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:36,680 Speaker 1: you know, you're overcompressing it. So it's kind of a 747 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:39,920 Speaker 1: you do got to experiment a little bit, and it 748 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,240 Speaker 1: does make it tricky with something like TSS because every 749 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:44,680 Speaker 1: time you experiments, costing your money as you go do 750 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:48,680 Speaker 1: you know. So what I'd recommend to people is if 751 00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,400 Speaker 1: reach out to the choke tube companies that you're thinking about. 752 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:53,800 Speaker 1: You know, we may we may have not have shot 753 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,320 Speaker 1: all their loads, but they've more than likely shot hors 754 00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:59,000 Speaker 1: um and they'll they'll be happy to tell you, hey, 755 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:01,080 Speaker 1: I think you know what with your set up here, 756 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:03,080 Speaker 1: you're gonna do this, you know, I know, like like 757 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:05,080 Speaker 1: Rob Roberts out there if you if you've got a 758 00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:07,640 Speaker 1: vanilla or a Bretta gun, I mean he really specializes 759 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:09,520 Speaker 1: in those. Reach out to Robin. He'll tell you and 760 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:11,600 Speaker 1: your gun, you're probably gonna use a T too, you know, 761 00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:13,120 Speaker 1: and he'll say that's going to give you the best 762 00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:16,440 Speaker 1: pattern with federal number nine's or or whatever. So yeah, 763 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:18,480 Speaker 1: I mean there's a lot of reputable chokes out there. 764 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:22,600 Speaker 1: You know, You've got Carlson's True Luck, Jeb's Rhino, you know, 765 00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:25,040 Speaker 1: all of these specialty chokes um that are out there. 766 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,440 Speaker 1: And one thing I had, just as you mentioned earlier, UM, 767 00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:30,719 Speaker 1: it's just in my research, I didn't want to go 768 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:32,200 Speaker 1: too tight, you know. I think I ended up with 769 00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:35,120 Speaker 1: a six sixty for that invector, which you know fit 770 00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:38,440 Speaker 1: some of those Winchesters, the Mossberg's, the you know, it's 771 00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:40,280 Speaker 1: kind of that universal choke that a lot of companies 772 00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,239 Speaker 1: were using and ended up there at six sixty. UM, 773 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:46,040 Speaker 1: it looks like people were having It's almost if you're 774 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:48,520 Speaker 1: out there looking for like what choke to get and 775 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:51,040 Speaker 1: what constriction, I almost can guarantee you that if you 776 00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:55,399 Speaker 1: type into you know, the Google, um, you know what 777 00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:57,560 Speaker 1: load you're gonna shoot what choke you want to use 778 00:34:57,560 --> 00:34:59,360 Speaker 1: and what gun you have that you're gonna get some 779 00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:01,560 Speaker 1: pretty good rect commendations. Now with that said, I also 780 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:04,520 Speaker 1: want to put the asterisk next to it that every 781 00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:06,880 Speaker 1: gun and every load shoots different. You know, I had 782 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,799 Speaker 1: a massprogate thirty five with the compent choke. My buddy did, 783 00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:12,880 Speaker 1: and they shot different shells differently. You know, I polished 784 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,600 Speaker 1: my barrel um with some the old Scotch Bright trick 785 00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:17,240 Speaker 1: you know, all the way through the choke. He didn't, 786 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:20,759 Speaker 1: and we were just getting different, you know, different results. 787 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,200 Speaker 1: So there there's a lot out there on choke constriction, 788 00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:25,480 Speaker 1: you know, the patterns that people are getting that that 789 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:28,719 Speaker 1: may save you a whole lot of money versus you know, 790 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,160 Speaker 1: just firing you know, a bunch of TSS down the 791 00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:33,080 Speaker 1: barrel to figure it out at least a good starting point, 792 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:34,480 Speaker 1: you're still gonna have to prove it and make sure 793 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:37,640 Speaker 1: it works um with your exact set up. Though, Yeah, 794 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:40,240 Speaker 1: use you know, always start with the target load, especially 795 00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:41,799 Speaker 1: if you're trying to get a red dot dialed in, 796 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:44,080 Speaker 1: you know, start with the cheapest load you can find 797 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:46,440 Speaker 1: and and that it should get you close. And now 798 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:49,759 Speaker 1: the new velocity change, and you know subtleties may come 799 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,359 Speaker 1: from there. But um, it's just you know, Turkey hunt 800 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:55,240 Speaker 1: has gotten like loads are so advanced, optics are so advanced, 801 00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:57,239 Speaker 1: guns are so much better. It's almost gotten to be 802 00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:58,920 Speaker 1: like a like a rifle honor. You know, you have 803 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:01,319 Speaker 1: to you gotta die your equipment in because you're you're 804 00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:04,440 Speaker 1: you're we're giving you more lethality. But everything is getting 805 00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:06,680 Speaker 1: a little tighter and tighter with the way technology is going, 806 00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:08,879 Speaker 1: so you've got to be a little more on. Yeah, 807 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:11,560 Speaker 1: I'm gonna ask you a little side question as far 808 00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:13,720 Speaker 1: as like, you know, barrel cleaning. You know, I shoot 809 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:16,759 Speaker 1: some customer rifles, and you know, the builder said, you know, 810 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,400 Speaker 1: once you shoot your first five, you know, check for 811 00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:22,399 Speaker 1: copper foiling, shoot five or ten more, check one last time, 812 00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,400 Speaker 1: and then from then like don't clean your gun anymore 813 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:30,280 Speaker 1: until something's happening, Like just let that gun basically be foul. Um, 814 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:32,160 Speaker 1: as long as your shots don't move, what do you 815 00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:35,640 Speaker 1: what's your recommendation for cleaning shotguns? Is it similar? Does 816 00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:38,000 Speaker 1: it not really matter at all? Um? When it comes 817 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:42,279 Speaker 1: to like load performance and patterning. From my experience, it 818 00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,080 Speaker 1: it doesn't but you know, there could be people out 819 00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:47,239 Speaker 1: there and more specialized than I am. You know, I'm 820 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:49,799 Speaker 1: probably your average like if I'm if I'm on a 821 00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:51,799 Speaker 1: hard duck hunter or a wet, rainy day. You know, 822 00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:53,960 Speaker 1: I usually tear my gun down every time I get 823 00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:57,520 Speaker 1: home if it's not wet and dirty. Like I've shot 824 00:36:57,600 --> 00:36:59,719 Speaker 1: my Vanilli most a trap season last year, I cleaned 825 00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:02,640 Speaker 1: it one, I think. So I'm not a source of 826 00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:04,480 Speaker 1: but I do know if you're shooting a lot of lead, 827 00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,239 Speaker 1: like as a trapshooter, um, some of those pellets kind 828 00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:09,000 Speaker 1: of bubble over the top of the wad, you will 829 00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:11,480 Speaker 1: get lead following build up in the barrel. So you 830 00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:13,399 Speaker 1: do want to you do want to clean it out 831 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,360 Speaker 1: in terms of a turkey you know gun and getting 832 00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:18,200 Speaker 1: better patterns, you know, doing like what you did to 833 00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:20,440 Speaker 1: the scratch bite. I've heard of things like that. Um. 834 00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:23,640 Speaker 1: But yeah, you're you're getting a little beyond my expertise. 835 00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,520 Speaker 1: And I know that you know, we have guns here 836 00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:29,000 Speaker 1: that we you know, they've been test guns for years 837 00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:32,120 Speaker 1: and years and years, will you know, And I don't 838 00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:34,120 Speaker 1: think we do any special regiment to clean them. And 839 00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:36,560 Speaker 1: they're probably getting shot more than most people's shotguns and 840 00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:38,880 Speaker 1: you know in the country. You know, I can imagine 841 00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:40,759 Speaker 1: you guys pulled the trigger a little a little more 842 00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:44,440 Speaker 1: lea those test guns. Um. Yeah, some of that stuff. 843 00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:48,160 Speaker 1: I just I was like completely you know, involved with 844 00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:50,960 Speaker 1: turkey hunting, and like it consumed my life a little bit. 845 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:52,399 Speaker 1: And so it was like every little thing I could 846 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:54,440 Speaker 1: do like that, let's let's pullish the barrel the day 847 00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:56,200 Speaker 1: with a bunch of gun oil and you know, an 848 00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:58,560 Speaker 1: ss pad And you know, it didn't prove it. It doesn't. 849 00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:01,640 Speaker 1: It didn't make a difference back then. But you know, nowadays, 850 00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:04,400 Speaker 1: it seems like there's there's even a market for basically 851 00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,200 Speaker 1: people you know, quote unquote like turkey I sing or 852 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:09,440 Speaker 1: however you would say that word. Um, you know, basically 853 00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:14,120 Speaker 1: making a gun a dedicated like turkey gun, turkey killing gun. Um. 854 00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:15,520 Speaker 1: You know, I don't know what all goes in that, 855 00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:17,319 Speaker 1: but I've seen a lot of people talk about like 856 00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:20,080 Speaker 1: having your gun sent off to get this or that 857 00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:23,360 Speaker 1: done or you know, make this modification. So yeah, I 858 00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:26,000 Speaker 1: kind of mentioned Rob Roberts before, and that's like he'll 859 00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:28,000 Speaker 1: blow they call it blow out the forcing cones and 860 00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:30,480 Speaker 1: it's it's kind of that back portion of the shotgun 861 00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:32,600 Speaker 1: where the where the shell comes out of the chamber 862 00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:35,279 Speaker 1: and where the shot first hits. And you can optimize 863 00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:37,279 Speaker 1: that angle of the cone, and if you make it 864 00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:40,520 Speaker 1: a little bigger, it's gonna it's less of a harder recoil, 865 00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:42,799 Speaker 1: you know when you first get hit, because you're not 866 00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:46,279 Speaker 1: running into like that. It's like wider, I don't know, 867 00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:48,560 Speaker 1: it's the best. You're going into a wider hallway, right, 868 00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:51,000 Speaker 1: so there's less there's resistance for you're a little to 869 00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:52,560 Speaker 1: go down. It helps even it out as it goes 870 00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:54,719 Speaker 1: down the barrel. So it's gonna help even as it 871 00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:57,040 Speaker 1: goes out to barrel. And that's about the extensive I 872 00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,880 Speaker 1: that I know. I've been the rob shop and have 873 00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:02,720 Speaker 1: to act any kind of blew my mind when you're talking, 874 00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:06,799 Speaker 1: so gotcha, gotcha? Yeah you could. You can go down 875 00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:08,440 Speaker 1: the rabbit hole with you know, trying to get the 876 00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:11,160 Speaker 1: perfect load. But that's what's nice about what we've been 877 00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:13,279 Speaker 1: talking about. It seems like TSS has kind of taken 878 00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:16,680 Speaker 1: a lot of that um extracurriculars and just put your 879 00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:18,840 Speaker 1: minded ease that this is going to be you know, 880 00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:22,560 Speaker 1: a good enough, a good enough you know pattern and 881 00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:24,560 Speaker 1: without doing all that extra work that we used to 882 00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:26,920 Speaker 1: do back in the day on on lead or copper 883 00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:29,120 Speaker 1: plated leads. So all right, so I want to jump 884 00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:31,400 Speaker 1: into some state regulations. And we did a lot of 885 00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:35,200 Speaker 1: talking about number nine's. I know back in um, you know, 886 00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:37,759 Speaker 1: there were six states back then that weren't allowing you know, 887 00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:41,040 Speaker 1: number nine's to be used or sub gate shotguns such 888 00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:43,120 Speaker 1: as the twenty eight or the four ten. So do 889 00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:45,880 Speaker 1: your own research, make sure the state that you're hunting in, 890 00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:48,480 Speaker 1: everything that you're you know, you're set up is legal. Yeah, 891 00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:50,880 Speaker 1: we've done We've done an extensive effort. You know, we 892 00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:52,920 Speaker 1: got a good relationship with the game in Vicious too, 893 00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:56,120 Speaker 1: and they like to expand with with technologies, and you 894 00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:58,560 Speaker 1: know nine was was the big one where it's it's 895 00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:01,440 Speaker 1: legal in most states. Like I said, I wish I 896 00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:03,000 Speaker 1: knew that number right off top of my head, but 897 00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:05,520 Speaker 1: I don't. But if you should be able to use 898 00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:07,960 Speaker 1: it almost anywhere. And then same with the sub gauges, 899 00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:09,560 Speaker 1: and a lot of it just came down to information, 900 00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:11,759 Speaker 1: you know, like, hey, you're like everything I said. You know, 901 00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:13,680 Speaker 1: they could just listen to this podcast and they would 902 00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,160 Speaker 1: you know, they'd be filled in to show. So we 903 00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:17,879 Speaker 1: just try to share that and say, hey, we're still 904 00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:21,400 Speaker 1: killing turkeys ethnically. Some states it's easier, you know. Sometimes 905 00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:24,600 Speaker 1: it's a full legislative regulation change or a wording change, 906 00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:26,919 Speaker 1: statute change, and some of just the Game of Fish 907 00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:29,440 Speaker 1: department signs off on it. So if there is somewhere 908 00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:31,279 Speaker 1: if you're gunning the shoot a turkey with a four 909 00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:34,600 Speaker 1: ten and it's not legal, you know, just politely reach 910 00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:36,480 Speaker 1: out to your you know, your congress people or your 911 00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:38,040 Speaker 1: Game of Fish people and just say, hey, we're doing 912 00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:39,799 Speaker 1: it a different where else, Why why aren't we doing 913 00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:41,239 Speaker 1: it here? And just kind of let your let your 914 00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:45,279 Speaker 1: voice be heard. Um, what we're talking about state regulations 915 00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:47,520 Speaker 1: is there are still a pretty big push as far 916 00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:51,200 Speaker 1: as like lead moving forward, especially whether it's copperplated or not. Um, 917 00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:53,080 Speaker 1: can you give us any information kind of on that 918 00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:55,000 Speaker 1: front and how long we can expect lead the beer 919 00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:58,000 Speaker 1: around in Turkey? Turkey loads are kind of you probably 920 00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:00,440 Speaker 1: have a more up to date understanding of where that 921 00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:05,080 Speaker 1: movement's going. Yeah, so since since California changed, um, you know, 922 00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:07,640 Speaker 1: it's kind of assumed that it looks like Washington and Oregon. 923 00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:10,440 Speaker 1: We'll follow suit. You know, we we do follow that situation. 924 00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:12,359 Speaker 1: We we have we try to have a lead free 925 00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:14,880 Speaker 1: solution everywhere in our lineup. We do and I do 926 00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:17,440 Speaker 1: in almost every product category I have, with the exception 927 00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:20,800 Speaker 1: of rifle slugs and uh, that's not a huge demand 928 00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:23,680 Speaker 1: item for US. UM. If California required, you know, a 929 00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:26,320 Speaker 1: slug zone, which they don't, UM, i'd probably have And 930 00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:28,359 Speaker 1: even though we're working on right now, so we're very 931 00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:30,920 Speaker 1: cognitive of but we we work with the NSSF, the 932 00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:34,040 Speaker 1: National Shooting Sports Federation, you know, to stay of tabs 933 00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:36,640 Speaker 1: with that, and you know, be informed ourselves and be 934 00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:39,600 Speaker 1: as informational as we can to the industry too. You know, 935 00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:42,560 Speaker 1: in terms of lead turkey shells, I think as long 936 00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:44,520 Speaker 1: as there's a market forum, we'll have lead turkey in 937 00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:47,360 Speaker 1: our lineup. And if if legislation requires us a change, 938 00:41:47,480 --> 00:42:00,440 Speaker 1: you know, we'll be we'll be ready to support. Hopefully. 939 00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:02,480 Speaker 1: That answered as a bunch of your questions through my 940 00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:05,399 Speaker 1: questions I had, and I'm gonna close this out, Dan 941 00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:08,160 Speaker 1: with if you could help a new turkey hunter with 942 00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:10,880 Speaker 1: one tip, what would it be. Let's get your best 943 00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:16,760 Speaker 1: turkey hunting tip MM hmm, don't call too much, um, 944 00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:21,880 Speaker 1: and that's really gonna be um. I guess gotta have 945 00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:24,239 Speaker 1: two tips to be like, find a good turkey hunter 946 00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:27,279 Speaker 1: Taki hunting would be one, but if you don't have 947 00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:30,480 Speaker 1: that option, don't call too much. Especially when I'm up 948 00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,040 Speaker 1: in Minnesota, we had a lot of Eastern birds. You 949 00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:35,200 Speaker 1: gobble at them and then you gotta give him some 950 00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:37,440 Speaker 1: time to calm down and hopefully you'll hear them a 951 00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:40,759 Speaker 1: little closer. And I've spooked more birds off because I've 952 00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:43,640 Speaker 1: been too aggressive going for it. And uh, I was 953 00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:45,640 Speaker 1: finally able to go hunt real turkeys, which you can 954 00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:48,360 Speaker 1: gobble your head off, and it's fantastic. It's way gratifying 955 00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:50,640 Speaker 1: when you're going after him. But I would just be 956 00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:54,040 Speaker 1: very cognizant of how much calling you're doing, and you know, 957 00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:56,320 Speaker 1: the birds will will let you know when you should 958 00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:58,360 Speaker 1: be done, and you're probably gonna have to learn that 959 00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:00,560 Speaker 1: lesson on your next hunts because you're already blew it. 960 00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:03,759 Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, yeah, that's same thing we've talked about 961 00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:05,879 Speaker 1: a lot. As you know, hunting Eastern's compared to your 962 00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:08,080 Speaker 1: Merriam's and Rio's are just a different you know, you 963 00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:10,120 Speaker 1: put your run and choose on for Rio's Merriams and 964 00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:12,480 Speaker 1: you can call a lot more versus Easterns. You you 965 00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:14,920 Speaker 1: better be patient, sit still and don't call near as much. 966 00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:18,759 Speaker 1: It's so hard. Yeah. Well, I really appreciate having you 967 00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:22,360 Speaker 1: on today, Daniel, and uh hopefully you've you have a 968 00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:24,399 Speaker 1: good springer. You've already had a good spring since we're 969 00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:27,040 Speaker 1: probably right in the middle of Turkey season. And uh yeah, 970 00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:31,360 Speaker 1: thank you for for your knowledge on everything Turkey shotgun shows. 971 00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:32,960 Speaker 1: All right, I appreciate anytime