1 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: Get in touch with technology with text stuff from how 2 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 1: stuff works dot Com say they're and welcome to text Stuff. 3 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:17,959 Speaker 1: I'm Jonathan Strickland and I'm Lauren, And uh, this test, 4 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 1: we're not doing a listener request, although I would imagine 5 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:23,280 Speaker 1: a lot of our listeners have heard about the subject 6 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:25,320 Speaker 1: we're going to be talking about today. But before we 7 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: get into it, Lauren, what is your favorite implementation of 8 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 1: the concept of invisibility in FICTIONUS? Uh, probably the Ronnie 9 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:40,839 Speaker 1: Lank cloaking device, Yeah, which the Klingon's managed to get 10 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 1: their hands on because I was to get the Bird 11 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:45,559 Speaker 1: of Prey from uh well, they both had Bird of 12 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:48,879 Speaker 1: Praise that could cloak, and the Star Trek University. Eventually 13 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:50,840 Speaker 1: the Federation picked it up as well. We could really 14 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:53,280 Speaker 1: really get into a full thing of us just talking 15 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 1: about Star Trek and cloaking devices as it turns out. Yeah, No, 16 00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 1: that's a cool, cool implementation. Another one, of course, the 17 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 1: Predator being able to have that chameleon likability or I guess, 18 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:08,919 Speaker 1: I guess the halo armor. Yeah, there's of course the 19 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:13,760 Speaker 1: the Harry Potter invisibility. Yeah, the hay cloak with the 20 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 1: Marauders invisibility cloaks. So yeah, we've we've got all these 21 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:21,839 Speaker 1: ideas about invisibility. It's of course been a popular concept 22 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 1: in fiction, whether it's fantasy or science fiction. In the 23 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:27,040 Speaker 1: world of science fiction, of course, we have to try 24 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 1: and come up with a way of how would this work, 25 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:32,959 Speaker 1: how would we manage to make something invisible? And well, 26 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 1: some people feel more obligated to do that than others. Well, yeah, 27 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 1: because some people would argue that if you don't do it, 28 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 1: you might as well call it science fantasy rather than 29 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 1: science fiction. But the the concept usually boils down to 30 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:47,760 Speaker 1: the idea of somehow manipulating light so that bends around 31 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 1: an object and then continues on as if the object 32 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 1: were not there. So from an outsider's perspective, it's just 33 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 1: you know, emptiness or or whatever. It's whatever, see the 34 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 1: starf behind you or the wallopping willow or whatever. It excellent, 35 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: really well done. I was wondering where you're going to 36 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 1: go with the Harry Potter one exactly. So the interesting 37 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: thing is that there are people who are really working 38 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 1: on this technology. You guys out there have probably heard 39 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:20,119 Speaker 1: about variations on real world cloaking devices, and you may wonder, well, 40 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 1: how is this even possibly attempted, and there are a 41 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 1: lot of different approaches, but one emerging field that we 42 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 1: wanted to talk about is meta materials. Right, because with 43 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 1: normal materials, perhaps obviously, normal materials do not bend light 44 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 1: around them so that you can see what's on the 45 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 1: other side when they're solid and opaque materials. Yeah, yeah, exactly, 46 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 1: Even a even a transparent window is reflecting some light 47 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 1: back to you. Right. The idea of a meta material, 48 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 1: at least in this particular implementation, because there's lots of 49 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 1: different potential ways to use meta materials, is to bend 50 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:59,920 Speaker 1: electromagnetic radiation, in this case visible light around it so 51 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:02,239 Speaker 1: that we wouldn't see it. Now, we're not there yet, 52 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 1: by the way, spoiler alert, Yes, um, we are working 53 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 1: slowly towards it. But let's put down a good solid 54 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 1: definition of meta materials to kind of start the conversation off. Okay, so, 55 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:16,799 Speaker 1: first thing to keep in mind their artificial These are 56 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 1: these are materials that are man made, and they are 57 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 1: very different from natural materials because the properties that you 58 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 1: would find in any natural material are largely dependent upon 59 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 1: its chemical composition. So, for example, a bar of gold, 60 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 1: a bar of gold has the weight, the color, the density, 61 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 1: it has all of these things because of the nature 62 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 1: of the atoms of gold. Right. That's if it were 63 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 1: a different material, it would have very different properties, even 64 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: if you had it at the same physical dimensions, right 65 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 1: and so, And even though okay, a bar of gold 66 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 1: is also a man made object, you're rarely going to 67 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 1: pull a large chunk of gold like that right straight 68 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 1: out of the ground having minecraft or something without it 69 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 1: having some kind of impurities that you would have to 70 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 1: melt out or whatever it is that you do. But 71 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: basically it's all chemical exactly. Now, manty materials they get 72 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 1: their properties not just from the kind of atoms or 73 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:17,719 Speaker 1: molecules that make up that mety material. In fact, the 74 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 1: chemical composition doesn't really ultimately matters they structure exactly. It's 75 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:27,599 Speaker 1: it's how that material is physically constructed. And when we 76 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:30,360 Speaker 1: say physical structure, we're not talking about something you can 77 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 1: see on the macro level. We're talking this is micro 78 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 1: to nano exactly, to the point where it's so small 79 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:40,719 Speaker 1: that an optical microscope would not be able to show 80 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:44,040 Speaker 1: you what that structure is. And a lot of this 81 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 1: was sort of theoretical. We'll talk about the history of 82 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 1: it until relatively recently, we've just now started to get 83 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 1: too sophisticated manufacturing processes that allow us to build these 84 00:04:55,240 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: super tiny structures that will affect uh well, that will 85 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:05,159 Speaker 1: interact with electromagnetic radiation and interesting ways. Right. It's sort 86 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 1: of similar to the way that we've talked about nanostructures 87 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:12,279 Speaker 1: having different effects on the world around them, then we 88 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:17,360 Speaker 1: would normally be able to observe larger structures. Meta materials 89 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:20,279 Speaker 1: are similar and a lot of them will interact specifically 90 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 1: with electromagnetic radiation in very interesting ways. So if you 91 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 1: look at electromagnetic radiation, if you were to to just 92 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 1: be able to stop the whole universe and just look 93 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:36,839 Speaker 1: at a specific wave of electromagnetic radiation and be able 94 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:40,039 Speaker 1: to break that apart, conceptually, you'd be able to see 95 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 1: that there are two major components of it, which are 96 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 1: electric fields and magnetic fields. Um, there's also the vector, 97 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:51,160 Speaker 1: which is the wave's magnitude and direction. So all three 98 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 1: of these things together determine how they interact with any 99 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 1: given I reject exactly, and so conventional material usually only 100 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:03,480 Speaker 1: in acts with the electric fields. Usually there are some 101 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: that interact with magnetic fields, but Generally speaking, the electric 102 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:11,239 Speaker 1: fields are what are interacting with conventional material Many materials 103 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: can also interact with the magnetic fields, which increases the 104 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 1: number of ways it can interact with any given electromagnetic radiation. 105 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:23,040 Speaker 1: Keep in mind, visible light is electromagnetic radiation. It's part 106 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:27,039 Speaker 1: of that spectrum. It's a very narrow part of that spectrum, 107 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 1: which also includes things like ultraviolet light and infrared light, 108 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:35,719 Speaker 1: but also microwaves and radio waves. Um. So this is 109 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:39,280 Speaker 1: the stuff that would, at least in theory, if we 110 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:42,800 Speaker 1: were able to build the right kinds of structures, allow 111 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:45,839 Speaker 1: us to create an invisibility cloak for real zes or 112 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 1: at least some sort of of physical object that light 113 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 1: would bend around so you would not be able to 114 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 1: see it. And right now we only have invisibility cloaks 115 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:01,720 Speaker 1: that bend microwaves around. The implementations tend to be very 116 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:06,039 Speaker 1: specific to very narrow bands in that spectrum, right and 117 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:07,719 Speaker 1: we'll talk about it. This has to do with the 118 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 1: specific micro and nanostructures of these objects, which we'll get 119 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 1: into in a moment um. But while we're talking about waves, 120 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 1: electromagnetic waves are not the only ones that hypothetically these 121 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: materials can interact with right, absolutely, anything that travels in 122 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 1: wave form can in theory be uh something that interacts 123 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 1: in a different way with a meta material. So seismic waves, earthquakes, 124 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 1: that those it travels in waves, just like you know, 125 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 1: it's hard for us to imagine in a way things 126 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 1: like electromagnetic radiation because we can't directly see those waves. Um, 127 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 1: we also can't well, I guess we can see earthquakes, 128 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 1: or we can see the effective earthquakes, right, we can 129 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 1: certainly feel them, certainly, So those those seismic waves that 130 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 1: travel through the ground, you could in theory create a 131 00:07:56,960 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 1: meta material that allows that stuff to just passed through 132 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 1: it as if it weren't it wasn't there, and then 133 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 1: imagine making a building out of that stuff. It wouldn't 134 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 1: even sway when the earthquake moves through. The earthquake would 135 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 1: just pass through it as if it weren't there. It 136 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 1: would just redirect. Yeah, it's the same thing with sound waves. 137 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 1: You could build I mean, I'm I'm picturing our sound 138 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 1: studio right now without all of this albeit lovely foam 139 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 1: that that Noll has put up on our walls. Instead 140 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 1: of that, the walls themselves could just be made of 141 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 1: a material that redirects the sound waves. They could either 142 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:32,680 Speaker 1: absorb it or because again it all depends upon the 143 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 1: physical structure of the material itself. If you were able 144 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 1: to do that, you could have a perfectly soundproofed room, 145 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 1: so you would never have to worry about any sort 146 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 1: of bleed out either going out of the room or 147 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 1: coming into the room. And we would really like that 148 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 1: because often we have to stop when there's a siren 149 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 1: or a drag race or something going on outside, so 150 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 1: that you guys, I mean, I'm sure a couple of 151 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:58,199 Speaker 1: them have snuck through anyway, but we try to limit 152 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:03,319 Speaker 1: them also at will. Waves like ocean waves, those are 153 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:07,440 Speaker 1: another form that I've seen. I've seen the Navy looking 154 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 1: into a strategy where they would have a special meta 155 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 1: material on the outside of the whole of ships to 156 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 1: make them more efficient in moving through the water, exactly 157 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 1: releasing all that drags so that you don't have to 158 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 1: worry about that. It doesn't have to do as much 159 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 1: work to move a huge vessel through the water because 160 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 1: you have redirected the waves as if you're not there. Also, 161 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:32,840 Speaker 1: you could in theory, reduce the wake of a vehicle 162 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 1: moving through the water, so that the ocean itself does 163 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:40,320 Speaker 1: not reveal the fact that an enormous like aircraft carrier 164 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 1: just bustled through. You wouldn't have a wake, it would 165 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 1: This to me is hard to imagine. It's hard for 166 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 1: me to imagine. Yeah, going all, you know, Scutty said 167 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 1: you cannot break the laws of physics, and I think 168 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:00,839 Speaker 1: I think it was a little shortsighted. Actually, I think 169 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:03,680 Speaker 1: mento materials kind of prove them wrong. But I mean, 170 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:05,959 Speaker 1: clearly we're still working within the laws of physics. It's 171 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:09,719 Speaker 1: just we're expanding our our knowledge of how they how 172 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 1: they work. We're just tweaking them a little bit, you know, 173 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 1: kind of you know, just a little thumb of the 174 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 1: nose at the laws of physics. So, alright, what is 175 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:20,199 Speaker 1: actually going on here? How you know, we've talked about 176 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 1: what they are and what they do in general, and 177 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 1: we've talked about this structure issue. But let's let's get 178 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 1: down into it. Yeah, So, if you were able to 179 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 1: shrink down to a teeny tiny size and observe this 180 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:36,560 Speaker 1: material on the nano scale, what you would notice is 181 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:39,840 Speaker 1: that the actual physical structure of that material would be 182 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 1: made up of repeated patterns. They would be kind of 183 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:46,720 Speaker 1: like a repeated scaffolding in a way. And think, again, 184 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 1: this is on the nano scale. You to to us 185 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 1: on the macro scale, it would just look like stuff. 186 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:54,560 Speaker 1: Whatever it happened to be made out of. We went 187 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 1: notice that structure because it's far too too tiny for 188 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 1: us to see. But you would see these repeated patterns, 189 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:04,720 Speaker 1: and those repeated patterns would be specific to whatever wave 190 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 1: it was supposed to interact with. Because here's the thing. 191 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 1: For meta materials to be effective, generally speaking, those structures 192 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 1: need to be smaller than whatever the wavelength is of 193 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 1: the whatever it's going to interact with. Right. This is 194 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 1: why we've had better success with microwaves than anything else, 195 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 1: because microwaves are very long wavelength as well, I mean 196 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 1: compared to light. Absolutely. If for red's the same way 197 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:35,320 Speaker 1: and for red is a longer wavelength and say red, Yeah, 198 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 1: so you run into a building problem, just just a 199 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 1: structural issue here. Exactly how do you build something tiny 200 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 1: enough to interact with these very tiny wavelengths? Yeah, so 201 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 1: in order for you to have something that would be 202 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 1: able to shield an object from visible light, you would 203 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 1: have to make uh structures with such precision that those 204 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 1: repeating patterns would be just teeny teeny tiny, like yeah, 205 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 1: as building blocks would have to be like no bigger 206 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 1: than ten to twenty nanometers. Yeah, that's really super small. 207 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 1: And we've managed to do that kind of thing with microprocessors, 208 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:12,200 Speaker 1: but we're talking about expanding that out potentially to a 209 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 1: three dimensional object. Ultimately, when you're looking at microprocessors, you're 210 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 1: really talking about two dimensions. You're talking about the height 211 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:23,200 Speaker 1: and the width. There's no real Yeah, it's to the 212 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:25,200 Speaker 1: point where you might as well say it's two dimensional. 213 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 1: So when you're talking about three dimensional object and building 214 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:34,320 Speaker 1: that outward volumetrically, especially to cover say a car or yeah, 215 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 1: oh yeah, or an aircraft carrier or whatever. Obviously the 216 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:43,560 Speaker 1: military carrier whatever, the military applications for this are obvious, right, 217 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 1: I mean any kind of cloaking device. So yeah, being 218 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 1: able to manufacture that out in a way that it 219 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 1: has a practical effect is an enormous undertaking. It's something 220 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:57,920 Speaker 1: that is, uh, we're years beyond that, like or no, 221 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:00,959 Speaker 1: that's years beyond us, I should say we we and 222 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:05,199 Speaker 1: it not close together. As my point, we're kind of 223 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 1: shouting at each other exactly through the future exactly, so 224 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 1: although we can't see them because when they're in the 225 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 1: future in two they're invisible. But uh yeah, that's the 226 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 1: thing is that you have to have these super super small, 227 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 1: small small structures. And not only that, but visible light 228 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 1: takes up a spectrum. You know, we say the visible spectrum, 229 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 1: and you know the easy way of saying that as 230 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:28,679 Speaker 1: the Roy G. Biv Right, You've got from red on 231 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 1: one end to violet on the other end, and that 232 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 1: and everything in between. And that's what makes a visible 233 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 1: light for us. Well, in order to be able to 234 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 1: shield something from visible light, you would have to somehow 235 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 1: engineer a meta material that would be effective for that 236 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:48,080 Speaker 1: entire range of those wavelengths. That's really tricky. It's one 237 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:51,200 Speaker 1: thing to design a meta material that works for a 238 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:57,200 Speaker 1: narrow range of wavelengths. That is, it's I hesitate to 239 00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:01,559 Speaker 1: use the word easier. It's more realistic than effect creating 240 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:04,960 Speaker 1: a material that would be effective across an entire spectrum 241 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:08,640 Speaker 1: of wavelengths. So it may be that we never get 242 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 1: to a point where, using meta materials we create a 243 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 1: cloaking device that's effective for visible light. That doesn't mean 244 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 1: we won't create cloaking devices. We may do it through 245 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 1: a totally different technology, or we may have cloaking devices 246 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 1: that are cloaking devices for specific wavelengths like microwaves, because 247 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 1: radar uses microwaves. Right, So, a stealth bomber that has 248 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 1: meta material surfaces which means that the radar waves will 249 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 1: go straight through it and not bounce back, you wouldn't 250 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 1: have to have those super funky uh the panels that 251 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 1: are all at weird angles. Yeah, that whole episode right right. 252 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 1: The surface of stealth bombers right now operate by redirecting 253 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 1: those waves exactly. It's kind of like the idea of 254 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 1: just uh, deflecting the wave to some other direction ap 255 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 1: from the receiving station. Right. So, as long as the 256 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:06,480 Speaker 1: receiving station never gets the waves back, it doesn't know 257 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 1: that there's an object. So you can you could go 258 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 1: on and make those things more aerodynamic at that point, yeah, 259 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 1: you could. You could completely redesign the self the weird 260 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:19,239 Speaker 1: bulky looking thing. Yeah, I mean sure they were ridiculously 261 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 1: expensive and inefficient ultimately, but hey, they look cool. I 262 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 1: also like the Deloreans, so same. I mean, Deloreans show 263 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 1: up on radar like crazy, but that's that's that's another episode. Now, 264 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 1: there are different types of meta materials. There's there are 265 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 1: different ways of building meta materials to interact with various 266 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 1: types of wave links. So I'm going to go ahead 267 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 1: and preface this part of the podcast by saying, neither 268 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 1: of us are physicists, and electromagnetic radiation is a difficult 269 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 1: topic to wrap your head around when you haven't had 270 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 1: that as as your continual background for say thirty years. Yeah. 271 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 1: So if there are any physicists out there who cringe 272 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:12,120 Speaker 1: as we start to oversimplify what's happening, I apologize to you. Now. 273 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 1: I am doing the best of my ability to explain 274 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 1: what's going on. Yes, and if we get anything wrong, 275 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 1: please do be gentle with us, but let us know, Yes, 276 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 1: please do, because then we can always do a follow 277 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 1: up and say, you know what, we were doing this 278 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 1: based on our understanding, and as it turns out, our 279 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 1: understanding was flawed, and here's how it really works. We 280 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 1: appreciate that. Yes, please be gentle. Alright, So starting off, 281 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 1: we have the electro magnetic band gap meta materials or 282 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 1: also known as e b M meta materials or just 283 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 1: a b M, because that's what the m stands for 284 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 1: So these manipulate light propagation, and they are either made 285 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 1: from left handed materials or photonic crystals left handed materials. 286 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 1: That means they're more creative, it means they're sinister. So 287 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 1: when you go to the old French being a left hander, 288 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 1: I consider myself sinister. Now, left handedness and electromagnetic radiation 289 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:07,119 Speaker 1: is um a very particular thing and you've got to 290 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:10,240 Speaker 1: be careful on how you define it. So with electromagnetic radiation, 291 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:12,879 Speaker 1: like we said earlier, you've got the electric field, the 292 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:16,399 Speaker 1: magnetic field, and the wave vector, which is that magnitude 293 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:21,200 Speaker 1: and direction combo. Right, So you also have physical material. 294 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:25,120 Speaker 1: So any given physical material has a couple of different features, 295 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:29,239 Speaker 1: one called permitivity and one called permeability, and those are 296 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 1: the ways in which it's going to interact with any 297 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 1: given wavelength of electromagnetic radiation. Right, Yeah, Because your permitivity 298 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 1: is how it interacts with electric fields. Your permeability is 299 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 1: how it interacts with magnetic fields. And a positive number 300 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:48,199 Speaker 1: essentially says that it has this kind of interaction. But 301 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:51,280 Speaker 1: here's the thing you can actually have. You can create 302 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 1: a material that has negative permitivity and negative permeability. You 303 00:17:56,359 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 1: won't find it in the nature, or at least we 304 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:01,680 Speaker 1: haven't found anything in nature so far that has both 305 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:08,240 Speaker 1: negative permeability and permitivity simultaneously. We have made stuff that does, 306 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:11,560 Speaker 1: and that stuff is called left handed yes and h. 307 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 1: So it's really interesting concept that you are able to 308 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:19,879 Speaker 1: create something that has this negative permitivity and permeability. What 309 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 1: it ultimately means is that you could create a material 310 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 1: that resists waves as they impact that material. So imagine 311 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:34,840 Speaker 1: creating a military vehicle out of this stuff and there's 312 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 1: an electromagnetic burst. This thing would actually effectively the material 313 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 1: itself would push back against that oncoming electromagnetic wave, leaving 314 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:49,680 Speaker 1: the vehicle fine. So you could imagine that being really 315 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:53,240 Speaker 1: effective for something like an electromagnetic pulse weapon that wipes 316 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:56,639 Speaker 1: out electronics. Otherwise, if you're if you have it shielded 317 00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 1: with this stuff, it's like the ultimate Faraday cage. Yeah, 318 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:02,520 Speaker 1: it's like a field almost, but it's because of again 319 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 1: the physical structure of the structure of the material. Yeah, 320 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:11,240 Speaker 1: there's there's no energy thing going on here. It has 321 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 1: nothing to do like you don't have to turn off, 322 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 1: switch off exactly. It's just the way the stuff is 323 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:23,919 Speaker 1: physically built. It's it's unbelievable to me. It's amazing to 324 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 1: me that just by uh, specifically designing the structure, you 325 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:33,280 Speaker 1: can dictate how electromagnetic radiation is going to interact with something. 326 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:37,400 Speaker 1: And now there's also single negative meta materials, which would 327 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:41,639 Speaker 1: have one of those two things, primitivity or permeability, be negative, 328 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:44,200 Speaker 1: but the other one would be positive. Then you have 329 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 1: natural materials that have like the double positive, which means 330 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:51,199 Speaker 1: the permitivity and permit permeability are both positive. You can 331 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 1: make meta materials that have that same stuff. Uh, I mean, 332 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:56,199 Speaker 1: it all depends on what you want the meta material 333 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:59,640 Speaker 1: to do obviously. Uh. Then there are others that get 334 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:03,120 Speaker 1: restively more difficult for me to describe. So I'm not 335 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:07,119 Speaker 1: gonna try because I know at that point I would 336 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 1: just be giving misinformation. But uh, that's the basic ideas, 337 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:15,399 Speaker 1: the the idea of interacting with either the electric field 338 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:18,120 Speaker 1: or the magnetic field or both in a way that's 339 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:22,399 Speaker 1: different from your general natural materials out there. So this 340 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:26,479 Speaker 1: all sounds like incredible science fiction technology to me. This 341 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:31,120 Speaker 1: is all probably really recent research, right, Well, how about 342 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 1: late nineteenth century is that still recent? I mean, overall 343 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 1: from a geological time scale, it's like no time at 344 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:42,640 Speaker 1: all has passed, but for for humans. Yeah, this this 345 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 1: is actually the whole concept is built upon observations that 346 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:50,200 Speaker 1: were starting to come out of the scientific world in 347 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:56,160 Speaker 1: the late nineteenth century. Back in a scientist named Jagaudie 348 00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 1: chunder Bows experimented with microwaves and twisted structures that today 349 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:04,919 Speaker 1: we would call artificial chirals. Chiral, by the way, is 350 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 1: essentially an asymmetric shape. It's one that if you were 351 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: to superimpose a reverse of its image, it would not 352 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:17,240 Speaker 1: fit onto itself. Um. He found that by introducing randomly 353 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:21,800 Speaker 1: oriented wire helisses as in the plural of helix uh 354 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:25,640 Speaker 1: in a host medium, he could create a microwave lens. Essentially, 355 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 1: he was bombarding stuff with microwaves and he had these 356 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:34,200 Speaker 1: little wire helix structures embedded into that material, and then 357 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 1: he would move the little helix helis sees around, changing 358 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: their orientation, changing their their layout, and he discovered that 359 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 1: that was changing the the effect of those microwaves. He 360 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:49,919 Speaker 1: could focus it exactly, so he's like, huh, something to 361 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 1: do with the physical structure is affecting the way the 362 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:57,439 Speaker 1: microwaves are behaving with this material, and that was the 363 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 1: very beginning. Some say, because there are people who argue 364 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:03,360 Speaker 1: about whether or not this is in fact the origin. 365 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:08,399 Speaker 1: But by the nineteen sixties you had scientists hypothesizing that 366 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:11,680 Speaker 1: if we were in fact able to build stuff with 367 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 1: incredible nano precision, we could do so and make it 368 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 1: so that it behaves in a specific way when introduced 369 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:24,159 Speaker 1: to electromagnetic radiation. There wasn't any way we could actually 370 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 1: do it at that time. Yeah, we wouldn't actually get 371 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:30,640 Speaker 1: into that kind of production technology until the nineteen nineties. Yeah, 372 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:33,440 Speaker 1: And in fact, really it wasn't until the two thousands 373 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:38,919 Speaker 1: that you started seeing the first real forays into the 374 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:43,160 Speaker 1: microwave world, where we were trying to uh specifically create 375 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 1: a meta material that would allow microwaves to pass straight 376 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 1: through it as if nothing were there at all, and 377 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:51,240 Speaker 1: kind of around it. But yeah, kind of around it. Yeah. 378 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:54,120 Speaker 1: When I say through it, over it, I guess technically, yeah, 379 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:56,879 Speaker 1: imagine that the light like think of it almost like water, 380 00:22:57,359 --> 00:22:59,439 Speaker 1: you know how water. If you put a stone in 381 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:02,520 Speaker 1: an in flowing water, the water will just flow around 382 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:05,359 Speaker 1: the stone and then continue on as if nothing were there. 383 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:07,639 Speaker 1: It's the same sort of things. In this case, we're 384 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 1: talking about light. It actually bends around the object and 385 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:13,400 Speaker 1: then continues on not to us, it's as if light 386 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:16,199 Speaker 1: is just passing straight through it, right, That's that's an 387 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,400 Speaker 1: optical illusion. So if we were able to see in microwaves, 388 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 1: we would not see that object. It would just be 389 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:25,399 Speaker 1: as if there was nothing there at all. So that was, 390 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,679 Speaker 1: you know, kind of the beginning of it. But as 391 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:32,440 Speaker 1: far as where we are now, we're really seeing lots 392 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:37,159 Speaker 1: of effort going into making this technology more sophisticated. Uh, 393 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 1: And we're able to create much more precise meta materials 394 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,200 Speaker 1: than we ever have been before. Oh yeah, A lot 395 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:46,920 Speaker 1: of that has to do with three D printing. Talk 396 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:49,440 Speaker 1: about that a lot on this show. We do. Uh. 397 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,480 Speaker 1: For example, that microwave invisibility click that we were that 398 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:56,080 Speaker 1: we've been talking about involved printing wires and patterns on 399 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 1: too circuit boards in order to create this this shield. Yeah, yeah, 400 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 1: that's pretty cool. So this whole microwave shield thing, it's 401 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,239 Speaker 1: obviously the best example because those are the ones that 402 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:11,120 Speaker 1: have had the most experimentation, the than the greatest success 403 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 1: rate so far. Again, it tends to be narrow bands 404 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 1: of the spectrum. It's not like it will affect every 405 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 1: wave length, but it has shown that this could be 406 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:28,400 Speaker 1: possibly used for stealth technology, like or if you want 407 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 1: to turn it on its head, you could actually make 408 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 1: more effective antennas using meta materials. Right, instead of it 409 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,480 Speaker 1: being something that that the waves passed through, it could 410 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 1: be something that is channeling those waves more effectively, either 411 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 1: to transmit or to receive, whether it's microwaves or whatever. 412 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,879 Speaker 1: In fact, I've even seen talk about optical antenna's, So 413 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,359 Speaker 1: it would be something in the light range, not necessarily 414 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 1: visible light, but in the light range that would be 415 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:58,760 Speaker 1: really effective at transmitting and receiving because the meta materials 416 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:02,760 Speaker 1: themselves were channel ling that radiation in a more effective 417 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 1: manner um. Again, we're getting to a point now where 418 00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:11,040 Speaker 1: I'm like, I understand the application, Understanding the mechanism is 419 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 1: getting more and more complex. And then there's the idea 420 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:20,960 Speaker 1: of creating like an amazing microscope or telescope using meta 421 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:25,879 Speaker 1: materials to create super lenses. So here's here's the thing. 422 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 1: When we talk about the nanoscale, and we talked about 423 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:32,120 Speaker 1: not being able to see something with an optical microscope, 424 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,480 Speaker 1: the main reason we talk about that is that you're 425 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 1: talking about trying to look at things that are on 426 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 1: a scale that's smaller than a light wavelength. So here's 427 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:46,880 Speaker 1: the weird part in theory. You could use meta materials 428 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:52,120 Speaker 1: that have a negative refraction index refraction. When when you're 429 00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:55,720 Speaker 1: talking about lenses, there's a thing called the diffraction limit, 430 00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 1: and it's one of those things that like, the better 431 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 1: or lenses, the less problem you have with diffraction, but 432 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:05,960 Speaker 1: ultimately you're going to run into it at some point 433 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:08,880 Speaker 1: or another. The menty materials can start to make that 434 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:11,919 Speaker 1: less and less of a factor. So as you have 435 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:15,760 Speaker 1: this negative refraction index, which would allow you to look 436 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:18,479 Speaker 1: at stuff that normally would be too small for you 437 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 1: to see whether that is a distant star. So you're 438 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:24,639 Speaker 1: talking about a telescope in that case, or something on 439 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,359 Speaker 1: the nanoscale, so you're talking about a microscope on that case. 440 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 1: And the the idea here is that, Okay, lenses focus 441 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 1: light by bending it right, UM, and the refraction index 442 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,800 Speaker 1: measures how much a given material will bend the light 443 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 1: passing through it. Uh, you know, the way that an 444 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 1: object will look different when you view it through water 445 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:47,360 Speaker 1: or through a wine glass or something like that. UM 446 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:50,960 Speaker 1: and a negative refractive index means that the material is 447 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 1: bending light the wrong way, which could allow for this 448 00:26:55,240 --> 00:27:00,440 Speaker 1: very precise fine focus. Um, but it kind of goes 449 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 1: against just again your common sense of how things work, right, 450 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:05,720 Speaker 1: because you're saying, oh, well, this just does it the 451 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 1: opposite way. But but that's that's the thing at all. 452 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 1: That's like saying if I jumped into water, I would 453 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:16,680 Speaker 1: get more dry. Like it's something that goes so against 454 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,359 Speaker 1: what are common experiences. It's hard, at least for me 455 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:24,720 Speaker 1: to imagine it. It's difficult for me to have a 456 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:29,320 Speaker 1: concept of how that works. But it does. But it does, 457 00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:32,720 Speaker 1: and it could be useful for a number of technologies 458 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 1: because a number of technologies in fact, to use optics, 459 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:39,639 Speaker 1: how about fiber optic cables or optical discs like DVDs. 460 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 1: H that this kind of research could lead to huge 461 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 1: improvements in a DVD's data capacity or in fiber optic 462 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:50,399 Speaker 1: cable transmission speed or power consumption. So one of the 463 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 1: things that I talked about on a forward Thinking episode 464 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:58,879 Speaker 1: an upcoming forward thinking episode spoiler alert, folks, is the 465 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:03,840 Speaker 1: whole field of photonics. The idea of creating electronic components 466 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:08,160 Speaker 1: that are based on light rather than on electricity. So 467 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 1: the thing about photonics is that they tend that they're 468 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:14,440 Speaker 1: incredibly fast, Like you can move a lot of data 469 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,080 Speaker 1: at the speed of light. So when I say fast, 470 00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:19,880 Speaker 1: I'm not just talking about transmission speed, because really we're 471 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,119 Speaker 1: talking at this point transmission speeds that are close to 472 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,440 Speaker 1: the speed of light. I'm talking about how much information 473 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,720 Speaker 1: you can move through that channel at once. So throughput 474 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:32,560 Speaker 1: is probably a better word than speed. But the problem is, 475 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,280 Speaker 1: especially when you get into things like quantum computers, you're 476 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 1: limited by how far you can you can extend these systems. 477 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 1: You would not be able to create at this moment 478 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 1: with our technology right now, a an internet based on 479 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:51,400 Speaker 1: quantum computers. It wouldn't reach far enough for you to 480 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,480 Speaker 1: be able to do that. I think thirty kilometers is 481 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:57,000 Speaker 1: about the limit that you can get. And while we 482 00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 1: could in theory build out a network that has a 483 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,240 Speaker 1: density for that, when you're getting to places that are 484 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 1: you know, further out, Yeah, it's make working from Antarctica 485 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:12,400 Speaker 1: really difficult, right but by using meta materials and improving 486 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 1: fiber optic technology, we might be able to address some 487 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:19,840 Speaker 1: of those issues and be able to extend that kind 488 00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:23,200 Speaker 1: of of utility. Further, so then we are able to 489 00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 1: have these massive nate you know, networks of fiber optics 490 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,120 Speaker 1: that don't have any data loss issues or at least 491 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:34,520 Speaker 1: fewer data loss issues, and be able to put everyone 492 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 1: on this incredible speed, and then we don't have to 493 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:41,880 Speaker 1: worry about the whole net neutrality thing anymore. I'm dreaming, 494 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 1: I know, but still it's pretty cool. It's a beautiful dream. 495 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 1: And besides fiber optics and DVDs, we could also see 496 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:54,600 Speaker 1: this helping improve technologies like ultrasonic technologies, anything that again 497 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 1: involves waves, so sound ultrasonic obviously the whole sound profing idea, 498 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,800 Speaker 1: who stick shielding that kind of thing. Also, uh, you 499 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 1: know solar panels again you want to redirect that light. 500 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:12,920 Speaker 1: So these are really cool potential applications of meta materials, 501 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:14,720 Speaker 1: assuming that we get to a point where we can 502 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:20,160 Speaker 1: produce them. Yeah, right, um, they could be the next 503 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 1: evolution of ultra light objects. We were just talking about 504 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,240 Speaker 1: that in our camping episode. I mean, although this would 505 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 1: probably be a little bit of the price point of 506 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,960 Speaker 1: many people are looking for hobbyist camping for a mere 507 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,840 Speaker 1: three million dollars. Uh m, I t and the Lawrence 508 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:38,680 Speaker 1: Livermore National Laboratory are working on three D printing stuff 509 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:43,720 Speaker 1: that has super low density and super high stiffness and strength. Um. 510 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:47,720 Speaker 1: For example, they can print these tiny lattices of polymers 511 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:51,520 Speaker 1: and then coat those lattices with thin films of metal materials, 512 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,680 Speaker 1: metal or ceramics or something like that, and then melt 513 00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:58,760 Speaker 1: out the original polymer, leaving these little, tiny, bitty hollow 514 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:03,400 Speaker 1: tubes with walls you know, only like fifty to animeters thick, 515 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:07,160 Speaker 1: that are incredibly strong, like able to bear loads that 516 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 1: are at least a hundred and sixty thousand times their 517 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 1: own weight. Again, hard to conceive, It's hard for me 518 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 1: to imagine. Meanwhile, scientists at the University of Southampton have 519 00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,600 Speaker 1: been working with materials that will adhere to a surface 520 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:25,600 Speaker 1: when that material is exposed to light. What. Yeah, So 521 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:27,840 Speaker 1: imagine that you've got a wall, maybe it's made out 522 00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:30,960 Speaker 1: usually you're talking about a dielectric wall, so something that 523 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:34,560 Speaker 1: can conduct electricity. So like, let's say that it's a 524 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:38,200 Speaker 1: stainless steel wall or some sort um, and you put 525 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,360 Speaker 1: this thing whatever it happens to be against that wall, 526 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,360 Speaker 1: and as long as it is being stimulated by light, 527 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:46,960 Speaker 1: it sticks there, and if you were to take away 528 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,680 Speaker 1: the light source, it would no longer stick there. And 529 00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:52,640 Speaker 1: it's because it's a meta material that has these little 530 00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:57,680 Speaker 1: vibrating electrons sites that would interact with electrons that are 531 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,840 Speaker 1: on the surface of the wall. It's health so it's 532 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:05,560 Speaker 1: an electron electron interaction that doesn't involve repulsion. And that's 533 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:07,640 Speaker 1: as much as I can tell you, folks, because I mean, 534 00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:09,840 Speaker 1: once I started looking into it more, I was like, Okay, 535 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:13,440 Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to take a full course in physics 536 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:15,600 Speaker 1: for me to really understand what's going on on a 537 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 1: physical level. But the cool part is that this could 538 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:24,520 Speaker 1: potentially become a new way of developing brand new technologies 539 00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:27,000 Speaker 1: that we can't even really conceive right now. Yeah, that's 540 00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 1: kind of a new fundamental force. Yeah, it's essentially the 541 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,840 Speaker 1: discovering that wait a minute, there's something else that that 542 00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:37,040 Speaker 1: can happen with under these specific circumstances that we didn't 543 00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:40,840 Speaker 1: know about, and it is a fundamental force, which is incredible. 544 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:44,040 Speaker 1: I mean it, this is an amazing scientific discovery. So 545 00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:47,880 Speaker 1: even if there's never like a practical application, just knowing 546 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:50,320 Speaker 1: that this is another way that our universe works is 547 00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:53,600 Speaker 1: a valuable lesson. Oh of course. Um. Meanwhile, over at 548 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 1: the University of Texas at Austin, they've been working on 549 00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,200 Speaker 1: creating these meta material mirrors that are only foim, they're 550 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:04,080 Speaker 1: thick that can double the frequency of infrared radiation that 551 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,360 Speaker 1: hits it. Okay, So if the incoming radiation has just, 552 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:11,200 Speaker 1: for example, a wavelength of eight micrometers um, the outgoing 553 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:16,880 Speaker 1: reflection will have a wavelength of for micrometers um, which 554 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:20,240 Speaker 1: is a pretty awesome feature. But the researchers are also 555 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:23,480 Speaker 1: saying that they can possibly fine tune the structure to 556 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:28,680 Speaker 1: adjust the reflection to other desired wavelengths um. The mirror 557 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:33,480 Speaker 1: is made of a bunch of wacky stuff, including indium, gallium, arsenic, aluminum, 558 00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 1: and gold. But that's a little bit beside the point 559 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:38,280 Speaker 1: I just found. I was like, arsenic is in there. 560 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:41,240 Speaker 1: That's cool, and how I deal with That's what? That all? Right? Um? 561 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:43,960 Speaker 1: But but so you know, being able to convert the 562 00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:48,160 Speaker 1: frequency of wavelengths at will would be incredibly awesome for 563 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:53,160 Speaker 1: a bunch of different optical purposes, like miniaturizing laser systems 564 00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 1: or improving optic space sensory tech. Yeah. Yeah, In fact, 565 00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:00,040 Speaker 1: I've I've seen a lot about meta materials used to 566 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:03,800 Speaker 1: help create these manature laser systems, and you might think, well, 567 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:06,040 Speaker 1: what's that good for. We'll go back to that photonics 568 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:08,840 Speaker 1: discussion we had just a moment ago that would be necessary. 569 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,440 Speaker 1: If you want to have a microchip that is working 570 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:14,960 Speaker 1: under photonics and not just electricity, then you have to 571 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,920 Speaker 1: have these lasers that generate the light and by manatorizing it, 572 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:21,160 Speaker 1: that's what makes it possible. Otherwise, you know your components 573 00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:23,160 Speaker 1: are going to be larger, which means your devices have 574 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:25,239 Speaker 1: to be larger in order to take advantage of that 575 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:29,680 Speaker 1: photonics technology. So this is really promising. Then you have 576 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:32,239 Speaker 1: this This was again one of those things where I 577 00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:36,480 Speaker 1: read it and I thought, what some folks at Northwestern University, 578 00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:39,640 Speaker 1: some scientists have been working on a material that would 579 00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:43,440 Speaker 1: act the opposite way you would expect it to based 580 00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:46,200 Speaker 1: upon our experience with the world around us. So imagine 581 00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:49,400 Speaker 1: you've got a cushion, and when you sit on that cushion, 582 00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:52,560 Speaker 1: instead of sinking down into the cushion as you would 583 00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:55,319 Speaker 1: with any normal cushion, the cushion pushes back against you 584 00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:58,279 Speaker 1: and actually rises up. Or imagine that you've got some 585 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,800 Speaker 1: sort of silly putty. But instead of when you pull 586 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,520 Speaker 1: on the silly putty and it stretches way out, it 587 00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:07,520 Speaker 1: starts to compress as you pull on it. In other words, 588 00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:09,680 Speaker 1: it sounds like we're talking about Harry Potter again. It 589 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:13,520 Speaker 1: is physically behaving the opposite of what it should if 590 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:18,799 Speaker 1: it were just a decent, law abiding material. And here's 591 00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:21,000 Speaker 1: the crazy thing is that they're scientists who are working 592 00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:24,080 Speaker 1: on creating material that does this stuff. Essentially, when you 593 00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:26,760 Speaker 1: when you pull it, it compresses and when you compress 594 00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:30,480 Speaker 1: it it expands. And they said that the way they 595 00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:33,080 Speaker 1: did it because normally, if you made a material like 596 00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:35,759 Speaker 1: this that could do this, it would be very unstable 597 00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:40,200 Speaker 1: and it would collapse in on a more stable, uh structure. 598 00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:44,080 Speaker 1: That what they did was they started by creating a 599 00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:47,120 Speaker 1: stable structure that already did this, so when it collapses, 600 00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:50,160 Speaker 1: it's collapsing into the the base form of this so 601 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,879 Speaker 1: that when you pull on it, it compresses. And uh. 602 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,960 Speaker 1: They explained the concept because again they're they're working on this. 603 00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:00,719 Speaker 1: It's not like they have big old piles of this 604 00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:04,120 Speaker 1: flubber like stuff out there. They're working on it, and 605 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:07,319 Speaker 1: it's very much in the hypothetical phase. They described it 606 00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:12,040 Speaker 1: by by describing, uh, four atoms that are in a 607 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:16,640 Speaker 1: horizontal line and uh, and trying to pull those atoms 608 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:20,719 Speaker 1: apart would would cause them to compress closer together. That 609 00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:24,919 Speaker 1: illustration didn't help me at all. But that's not due 610 00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:28,800 Speaker 1: to them. That's because I'm dense. So I'm not blaming 611 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,799 Speaker 1: it on you, Northwestern University. I'm blaming it upon my 612 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:37,840 Speaker 1: own limitations. But I think, what again, just by making 613 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:43,239 Speaker 1: this material a specific structure, it has these very different properties. Yeah, 614 00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:45,040 Speaker 1: I think that part of this is so hard to 615 00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:47,839 Speaker 1: wrap our minds around because it's i mean, not only 616 00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:49,919 Speaker 1: is it breaking the laws of physics kind of sort 617 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:54,239 Speaker 1: of um, but also because it's also new. Um that 618 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:57,440 Speaker 1: there was a market research company called BCC Research that 619 00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,959 Speaker 1: just this year estimated that the global market for mety 620 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:04,319 Speaker 1: materials is going to expand from like two eighty nine 621 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:10,120 Speaker 1: million dollars in to some one point two billion by nineteen. 622 00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:14,120 Speaker 1: So because the future is bright, it's hypothetically picking up 623 00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:17,160 Speaker 1: and it's it's the future is not just bright, it's invisible. 624 00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:21,640 Speaker 1: But but to be to be fair, to be fair, 625 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:24,919 Speaker 1: this this proves, like you say, two million dollars, which, 626 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:26,960 Speaker 1: don't get us wrong, that's a lot of money. We're 627 00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:28,600 Speaker 1: not saying it's a little money. If you think it's 628 00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:33,279 Speaker 1: a little money, give us two million dollars. But it's 629 00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:35,960 Speaker 1: a drop in the bucket compared to other industries. It's 630 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:40,879 Speaker 1: really proving that mety materials are in their infancy. So yeah, 631 00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:44,040 Speaker 1: well it's it's incredible to think of the sort of 632 00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:46,399 Speaker 1: applications that could potentially come out of this. I mean, 633 00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:52,160 Speaker 1: imagine a city that's earthquake proof. That or a bridge 634 00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:55,240 Speaker 1: that really is earthquake proof that the earth is shaking 635 00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:59,400 Speaker 1: around it and the bridge is just fine. That's it's 636 00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:02,920 Speaker 1: it's it blows my mind. It's incredible. I would like 637 00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:06,120 Speaker 1: that future. It would be an awesome future, be fantastic. 638 00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:09,799 Speaker 1: So we're really excited to see where meta materials go. 639 00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:13,640 Speaker 1: We're really excited that again, this is properties that are 640 00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:16,879 Speaker 1: just based upon the physical structure of that material, has 641 00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:19,440 Speaker 1: nothing to do with like, hey, we we managed to 642 00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:23,279 Speaker 1: make this new you know, stuff that is really unstable 643 00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:26,120 Speaker 1: and decays almost immediately. So that's unfortunate, but look at 644 00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:28,640 Speaker 1: the cool thing it does for the split second it exists. 645 00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:31,759 Speaker 1: That's not what we're talking about. This is stuff that 646 00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:35,640 Speaker 1: has permanency because again it's just the physical structure at 647 00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:40,359 Speaker 1: that nano level that gives it that ability. Wow. All right, Well, 648 00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:43,640 Speaker 1: now that we have melted our brains and hopefully stimulated 649 00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:46,120 Speaker 1: your brains, I would like to invite all of you 650 00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:49,080 Speaker 1: guys to suggest any topics you might want to hear 651 00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:52,240 Speaker 1: about in the future. Maybe you said that was really interesting, 652 00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:56,000 Speaker 1: Can we talk about something like really simple? Now? Maybe 653 00:38:56,200 --> 00:39:00,800 Speaker 1: maybe the technology often Kitten's kitten technology. Obviously that would 654 00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:03,759 Speaker 1: involve a deep discussion about YouTube. Just let us know 655 00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:07,400 Speaker 1: if you have any suggestions, or you have questions, or again, 656 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:12,600 Speaker 1: maybe we have covered something but perhaps are limited explanations. 657 00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:16,359 Speaker 1: You feel we're we're not rich enough, and you have 658 00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:18,000 Speaker 1: a way of putting it into words that we need 659 00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:21,279 Speaker 1: to share with our listeners. Let us know. Sleace us 660 00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:25,040 Speaker 1: an email. Our address is tex Stuff at how stuff 661 00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:27,640 Speaker 1: works dot com. Or if the message is really short, 662 00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:31,719 Speaker 1: like you guys rock, you can listen on Twitter Tech 663 00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:34,440 Speaker 1: Stuff hs W. If it's a little longer, like it's 664 00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:38,240 Speaker 1: in between email length and Twitter link, Facebook and Tumbler 665 00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:40,319 Speaker 1: are both great places to go to and let us 666 00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:43,080 Speaker 1: know what's going on. Our handle both of those also 667 00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:46,040 Speaker 1: is text up hs W and we will talk to 668 00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:52,760 Speaker 1: you again really soon for more on this and thousands 669 00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:54,919 Speaker 1: of other topics, because it has to have works. Dot 670 00:39:54,920 --> 00:40:00,560 Speaker 1: com chicks