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Speaker 1: If you have your own story of being in a

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Speaker 1: cult or a high control group.

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Speaker 2: Or if you've had experience with manipulation or abusive power

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Speaker 2: that you'd like to share.

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Speaker 1: Leave us a message on our hotline number at three

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Speaker 1: four seven eight six trust.

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Speaker 2: That's three four seven eight six eight seven eight seven eight.

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Speaker 1: Or showed us an email at trustmepod at gmail dot com.

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Speaker 2: Trust me, trust for trust me.

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Speaker 1: I'm like a swat person.

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Speaker 3: I've never lived.

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Speaker 2: To you. Never if you think that one person has

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Speaker 2: all the answers, don't welcome to trust Me. The podcast

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Speaker 2: about colds, extreme belief and the abusive Power from two

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Speaker 2: demons who've actually experienced it. I'm Lola Blanc.

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Speaker 1: And I'm Megan Elizabeth.

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Speaker 2: Today our guest is filmmaker Evan McNairy talking to us

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Speaker 2: about his childhood in an exorcism focused church. He's going

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Speaker 2: to tell us about growing up believing in demons and

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Speaker 2: helping with church exorcisms, and what it was like to

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Speaker 2: have people who he believed were possessed coming to stay

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Speaker 2: with his family.

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Speaker 1: We'll also get into the next church his family joined

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Speaker 1: in which people would laugh or scream together for hours

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Speaker 1: on end, and how he came to leave religion, plus

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Speaker 1: the possible benefits of exorcism like rituals, and the ways

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Speaker 1: in which a world with less and less religion is

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Speaker 1: a double edged sword.

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Speaker 2: That's right, before we get into it. I'm just feeling Listen,

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Speaker 2: I'm feeling agitated today before we get into it. Mecan,

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Speaker 2: what's your Cultyes?

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Speaker 1: Thing about man? Okay, this takes place in I believe Africa,

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Speaker 1: yet Nigeria. They just rescued seventy seven people from a

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Speaker 1: dungeon in Nigeria, twenty six kids actually, and it's because

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Speaker 1: they said that Jesus was coming back, so they wanted

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Speaker 1: these people to be safe in a dungeon.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, oh my gosh. And was there like a leader.

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Speaker 1: This was from the whole Bible Believers church. There was

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Speaker 1: a prophet telling them that Jesus is about to come back.

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Speaker 1: Pastor Josiah p Asumaso, he's an assistant pastor, but he

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Speaker 1: told the members that the rapture will take place in April.

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Speaker 1: But now it's been changed to September, so don't worry,

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Speaker 1: it's still for sure happening.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. We've said it a million times, but

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Speaker 2: like this is like prime time for end Time's cults

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Speaker 2: because everything feels so. I mean, you got climate change,

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Speaker 2: you got war, you got division, you got it, you

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Speaker 2: know you really got you got a worldwide pandemic. Like

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Speaker 2: everything feels it feels right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, It's gonna be really interesting and devastating to see

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Speaker 2: how many apocalyptic groups come out of this and how

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Speaker 2: much damage is done as a result. Listen, I feel

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Speaker 2: like the apocalypse is coming and I'm not even totally anyway.

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Speaker 2: That's crazy, that's horrible. No one died though, right, No,

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Speaker 2: not yet, So Okay, they were just imprisoned for three months,

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Speaker 2: No big deal.

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Speaker 1: Yeah what about you? What's the cultiest thing that happened

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Speaker 1: to you?

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Speaker 2: You know, I've just been processing. We didn't have an

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Speaker 2: episode last week because we we were just processing this

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Speaker 2: Roe v. Wade being overturned thing. And I've just like

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Speaker 2: really been diving into just how the Republican Party came

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Speaker 2: to be associated with anti abortion activism, and it's really upsetting.

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Speaker 2: I've been struggling with what even to focus on for

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Speaker 2: my cultiest thing this week, because I feel like there

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Speaker 2: are so many fucking different angles of this, But I

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Speaker 2: guess the one that I keep coming back to Have

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Speaker 2: you ever heard of a group called the Council for

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Speaker 2: National Policy. No, So this is an organization that is

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Speaker 2: still around. It's a conservative like activism group. They formed

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Speaker 2: in the late nineteen seventies. Do you know who Jerry

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Speaker 2: Folwell is, the like preacher.

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Speaker 1: Yes, unfortunately, yeah, him.

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Speaker 2: And then this guy Paul Wirich. Late nineteen seventies, there's

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Speaker 2: a group of like, angry conservative men who started gathering

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Speaker 2: to strategize about a new political movement. Here's a quote

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Speaker 2: from Paul Weyrich, one of the founders. He said, we

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Speaker 2: are radicals who want to change the existing power structure.

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Speaker 2: We are not conservatives in the sense that conservative means

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Speaker 2: accepting the status quo. We want change. We are the

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Speaker 2: forces of change. They were pissed because feminism was taking over,

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Speaker 2: and there was the civil rights movement, and liberals were

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Speaker 2: being soft on communism and all of these other issues

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Speaker 2: that they were upset about. Abortion was not one of them.

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Speaker 2: So Wyrich, he was called the Lenin of social conservatism.

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Speaker 2: He began to identify with this movement called the New Right,

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Speaker 2: and they wanted to establish themselves. Another quote from Conservative

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Speaker 2: Caucus Chair Howard Phillips first as the opposition, then the alternative,

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Speaker 2: finally the government. They said, we will not try to

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Speaker 2: reform the existing institutions. We only intend to weaken them

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Speaker 2: and eventually destroy them. We will maintain a constant barrage

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Speaker 2: of criticism against the left. We will not give them

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Speaker 2: a moment's rest. We will use guerrilla tactics to undermine

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Speaker 2: the legitimacy of the dominant regime. There's lots of evidence

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Speaker 2: of this. This isn't a conspiracy theory. They're literally conspiring. Again.

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Speaker 2: As I've mentioned from previous episodes, abortion was not an

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Speaker 2: evangelical issue. Prior to this point, it wasn't it was

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Speaker 2: it's a Catholic thing. It was not an evangelical thing.

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Speaker 2: And these guys were trying to find an issue that

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Speaker 2: would resonate, and I guess there was like, you know,

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Speaker 2: this was right after rulings that pertaining to desegregation and

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Speaker 2: trying to eliminate racist policy. That we're making people upset,

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Speaker 2: making white conservative people upset. But you can't directly and

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Speaker 2: outwardly appeal to their racism, because no one wants to

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Speaker 2: believe that they're racist, So you can't literally say that

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Speaker 2: that's what it's about right. So they're trying different issues,

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Speaker 2: they're trying different things to activate conservatives and evangelicals. Basically

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Speaker 2: these like Christian conservative people. You know, it's a few

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Speaker 2: years after Roe v Wade, Paul Weirich. It's his idea

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Speaker 2: to try abortion and to talk about family values. That's

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Speaker 2: in quotation marks. I'm doing quotation marks. This appeals to

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Speaker 2: this voter blocks discomfort with how many women are leaving

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Speaker 2: the home, you know, all of the change that's happening

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Speaker 2: in America. They don't like it. It's making them uncomfortable.

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Speaker 2: And it finally sticks and this becomes the issue. And

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Speaker 2: then he and Jerry Folwell they form it's called the

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Speaker 2: Moral Majority, which was an American political organization associated with

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Speaker 2: the Christian Right and Republican Party founded in nineteen seventy nine.

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Speaker 2: This basically like mobilized conservative Christians as a political force.

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Speaker 2: They were like campaigning to get people on board with

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Speaker 2: this new ideology. It was like they're sending mail to people,

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Speaker 2: they're calling people, they're getting people activated. They're like appealing

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Speaker 2: to all of these instincts that they had but hadn't

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Speaker 2: really articulated and didn't really know. It wasn't as clear

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Speaker 2: of a thing. Republican Party plus super super Christian values

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Speaker 2: plus abortion was not part of it. Like this all

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Speaker 2: got fused because of these men who like basically were

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Speaker 2: looking for political power for their party. So now the

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Speaker 2: Council for National Policy, which these men were instrumental informing,

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Speaker 2: there was a handful of them, but it was definitely

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Speaker 2: Jerry Folwell and Paul Weirich still exists. Their whole thing

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Speaker 2: is secrecy. It's like fight club. You were not supposed

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Speaker 2: to talk about the Council for National Policy. This was

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Speaker 2: like something you were not allowed to talk about what

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Speaker 2: happened in there. The membership was secret. This whole thing

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Speaker 2: was a fucking secret. Their membership list got leaked a

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Speaker 2: couple of times. So some of the members include Ginny Thomas,

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Speaker 2: Clarence Thomas's wife as who, as we know, was part

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Speaker 2: of the conspiring people for January six. She's a total

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Speaker 2: fucking conspiracy theorist, Mike Pence, Steve Bannon, the fucking racist

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Speaker 2: motherfucker who was a part of Trump's you know, inner circle,

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Speaker 2: Kelly Ane Conway, Wayne La Pierre, CEO of the NRA,

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Speaker 2: televangelist Pat Robertson. These are all people who are part

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Speaker 2: of this secret bocking group that keeps their meeting secret

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Speaker 2: because they've explicitly said they want to be able to

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Speaker 2: exchange ideas freely without criticism, which I'm interpreting as be

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Speaker 2: as racist as they fucking want without getting criticized for it. Right,

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Speaker 2: So these are the people who have been plotting, basically

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Speaker 2: to galvanize all of these voters who didn't fucking weren't

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Speaker 2: politically active, who didn't care about most of this stuff,

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Speaker 2: and have been plotting to get people who are aligned

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Speaker 2: with their particular values into the government and into the

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Speaker 2: Supreme Court. And so now we have a super conservative

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Speaker 2: Supreme Court that has been ruled in favor of religious

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Speaker 2: organizations and orally argued cases now eighty five percent of

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Speaker 2: the time. And for a group of people who claim

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Speaker 2: that they care so much about the Founding Father's intention,

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Speaker 2: it is truly remarkable to me how much they conveniently

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Speaker 2: forget about the intention of separating church and state.

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Speaker 1: It's pretty wild.

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Speaker 2: Like, yes, this is an attack on women's rights, Yes

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Speaker 2: this is an attack on people of color and in

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Speaker 2: myriad ways. But also this is like religious supremacy, Christian

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Speaker 2: supremacy specifically all of this shit they're arguing in favor

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Speaker 2: of Christianity. What do you want to fucking bet if

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Speaker 2: the Satanic temple showed up and did the exact same

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Speaker 2: thing with the Satanic prayer, you think that they'd be

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Speaker 2: cool with that. That's not religious freedom, right, right, of course,

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Speaker 2: that's Christian supremacy. It's upsetting on so many levels. It's

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Speaker 2: upsetting because fucking ten year old girl had to go

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Speaker 2: out of state to get her abortion after her rape,

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Speaker 2: and so many of these states, so many of these

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Speaker 2: politicians don't fucking care if you've been raped, or if

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Speaker 2: you're a victim of incest. They don't fucking care if

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Speaker 2: you're just trying to do IVF treatment and have a child,

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Speaker 2: because one of the consequences is that of IVF can

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Speaker 2: be that some eggs are lost. Like it is extremism,

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Speaker 2: It is just completely seeing the world in black and

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Speaker 2: white and literally no regard whatsoever for science or nuance

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Speaker 2: or gray areas. Even if you believe that a third

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Speaker 2: trimester abortion is wrong, which I understand why you could

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Speaker 2: believe that, there are so many other things at play

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Speaker 2: here that have nothing to do with science. And then

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Speaker 2: many of these states are also trying to get rid

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Speaker 2: of Plan B, which is before an egg is even implanted.

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Speaker 2: Many of them are also trying to get rid of

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Speaker 2: iud's which is, again, these are birth control methods. This

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Speaker 2: is not killing babies. These are birth control methods. So

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Speaker 2: of course we're going to interpret this as you, y'all,

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Speaker 2: are just trying to control our fucking bodies. How do

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Speaker 2: you not interpret it that way? It's a real struggle

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Speaker 2: for me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, because that's what it is.

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Speaker 2: The thing is that I understand that a lot of Republicans,

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Speaker 2: my own family members, like, they don't view it that,

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Speaker 2: they don't think that they view it that way. They

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Speaker 2: think it's genuinely about the baby. They think it's genuinely

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Speaker 2: about saving babies. Like I know that people believe this,

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Speaker 2: but overarchingly, this has been a systematic marketing scheme by

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Speaker 2: a group of angry men who didn't like change, and

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Speaker 2: it worked, and it worked, and y'all fell for it.

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Speaker 2: Y'all fell for it because it's not about that.

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Speaker 1: Really.

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Speaker 2: Historically, so many religions, this was not an issue. It

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Speaker 2: was like, yeah, life begins at birth in some of them,

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Speaker 2: or many different Christian religions have taken a variety of

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Speaker 2: positions on this. This isn't a Bible thing. It's not right,

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Speaker 2: It's not right anyway. I would just urge people to

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Speaker 2: like truly interrogate what it is makes you uncomfortable. Is

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Speaker 2: it really about a baby? Like what if it's what

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Speaker 2: if it's someone who's been pregnant for nine weeks?

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Speaker 3: Like?

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Speaker 2: Is it really about the baby? Or is it about

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Speaker 2: being uncomfortable with how your quote family values are changing

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Speaker 2: aka women not being moms any as much anymore? Like

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Speaker 2: what is it really about?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 2: Who told you to think that? Your parents, your church?

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Speaker 2: Fox News?

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Speaker 3: Like?

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Speaker 2: Who told you to think what you think? And we

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Speaker 2: should all be interrogating that on the left as well.

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Speaker 2: Of course, we should always be interrogating where we're getting

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Speaker 2: our ideas. But absolutely, I don't think it's a one

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Speaker 2: sided thing. But in this case, it is a thing

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Speaker 2: that impacts so many women, and in particular poor women,

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Speaker 2: and in particular women of color. There is lots of

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Speaker 2: evidence that first of all, abortions will continue, they'll just

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Speaker 2: be more dangerous, and second of all, that it will

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Speaker 2: lead to more poverty. Because the number one reason that

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Speaker 2: women's site for not having a child is because they

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Speaker 2: don't have the money, they can't afford it, so it

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Speaker 2: does put them deeper into poverty. It puts their children

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Speaker 2: deeper into poverty. Like this isn't a good life.

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Speaker 1: Here's the thing, A third trimester abortion awful, horrible, can

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Speaker 1: barely ever justify it whatever, But if you're not going

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Speaker 1: to adopt kids or foster kids, then shut the fuck up.

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Speaker 1: That's the only point that I have. It's already horrible here.

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Speaker 1: You can't have an opinion if you can't take care

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Speaker 1: of them.

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Speaker 2: I mean, and then will you see these pictures of

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Speaker 2: these creepy fucking couples being like, I'll adopt your baby, right,

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Speaker 2: I'm sure you will want you to fucking adopt my baby.

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Speaker 2: The vast majority of third trimester abortions are because the

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Speaker 2: doctor knows, based on the fact that this is their

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Speaker 2: job to know, because it is science that this baby

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Speaker 2: will be born dead or with a severe birth defect

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Speaker 2: that will make them die almost immediately. That is the

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Speaker 2: number one reason for third trimester abortions. It's not because

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Speaker 2: people are just like, I'd like to kill my baby now,

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Speaker 2: like that is not how it fucking works, of course,

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Speaker 2: Like it's of course to us but that's how a

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Speaker 2: lot of people see it. That's truly like what they've

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Speaker 2: been told. It's like, I have a family member who oh,

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna fucking CROs. I have a family member who

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Speaker 2: you know, found out that she'd been carrying her dead

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Speaker 2: fetus for weeks and it was the most traumatizing thing

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Speaker 2: she'd ever experienced. And this women are gonna have to

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Speaker 2: do this. Don't you fucking care about all of the

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Speaker 2: pain and trauma these women are gonna have to suffer.

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Speaker 2: Like I'm lucky I live in California, but like, if

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Speaker 2: Republicans take over in the next elections, they're going to

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Speaker 2: federalize this and this will be the law. Is just

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Speaker 2: so heartless. It is so heartless. And don't even fucking

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Speaker 2: get me started on the Supreme Court ruling that the

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Speaker 2: EPA can no will no longer have as much power

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Speaker 2: to limit emissions, like you are trying to kill us.

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Speaker 2: Climate change is fucking real. Scientists fucking agree it is happening.

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Speaker 2: Why are you trying to kill us? Is it because

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Speaker 2: you are so excited for the fucking end times?

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Speaker 3: Like?

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Speaker 2: What the fuck is wrong with you? Pro environmentalism to

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Speaker 2: be a Republican issue. George Bush the first actually like

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Speaker 2: had really great environmental policy, and then it was these

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Speaker 2: corporate oil billionaires who started lobbying to lie to the

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Speaker 2: American people and they successfully did that, and now it's

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Speaker 2: become a Republican versus democratic issue. It's like, you, guys,

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Speaker 2: this is the earth, this is all of us. Okay,

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Speaker 2: I'm done ranting. Sorry, I'm just like, it is so

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Speaker 2: upsetting to just sit here and watch this happen and

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Speaker 2: feel like there's nothing that I can fucking do and

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Speaker 2: I don't. It's just like it is. I know you understand,

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Speaker 2: but like it just it fucking wears you down.

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Speaker 3: Man.

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Speaker 2: It wears you down when you don't know what to

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Speaker 2: do and you're the people in power are not doing anything.

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Speaker 2: It is upsetting to live in this time.

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Speaker 1: It's the worst.

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Speaker 2: The Supreme Court has been hijacked by people who are

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Speaker 2: stuck in cultic Christian thinking, and I think it's incredibly

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Speaker 2: dangerous for everyone. Yes, for everyone.

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Speaker 1: The whole world is a our cults.

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Speaker 2: Okay, we can move on now, should we? You talk

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Speaker 2: to Evan.

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Speaker 4: Welcome Evan McNary to trust me.

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Speaker 3: Thank you. I'm excited to be here.

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Speaker 2: We just met the other night and I happened to

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Speaker 2: google you and I learned some interesting information about you,

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Speaker 2: which you're going to tell us today. So can you

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Speaker 2: start us off with what was the first religion that

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Speaker 2: you grew up with as a kid? And yeah, what

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Speaker 2: was that?

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Speaker 3: Well, they called it Baptist. It was an unusual Baptist

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Speaker 3: because it centered on exorcisms, and so you had the

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Speaker 3: normal church. It looked like a Baptist church to the

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Speaker 3: small town, but it was world renowned for exorcisms. So

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Speaker 3: people would come from all over the world to deal

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Speaker 3: with whatever they were dealing with in hopes that if

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Speaker 3: the right demon was cast out of them, they would

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Speaker 3: be okay. Wow.

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Speaker 2: So I didn't realize the church specialized in that, like

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Speaker 2: that's what it was known for.

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Speaker 3: He became known for other things as well as far

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Speaker 3: as like anti establishment stuff and no paying your taxes

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Speaker 3: and that kind of weird thing. If and when you're interested,

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Speaker 3: I can share the tips for avoiding wonderful I learned

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Speaker 3: as a seven year old.

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Speaker 1: Were your parents raised? Were your parents raised?

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Speaker 3: My mom was Catholic and my dad was a hippie. Oh,

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Speaker 3: this is kind of crazy. My mom was part of

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Speaker 3: this very religious family who were devout Catholics. And then

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Speaker 3: her dad had some issue with one of the teachings.

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Speaker 3: He was like, he was a Bible nut, so he

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Speaker 3: knew everything. He challenged the priest about a point and

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Speaker 3: he got excommunicated, which still happens. That pushed them to

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Speaker 3: look for another church, and somehow my mom drifted to

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Speaker 3: this Baptist church.

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Speaker 2: Hmm. The intersection of hippies and Christianity is one that

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Speaker 2: we see lot and is surprising to me every time.

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Speaker 2: So where was this? What state were you in?

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Speaker 3: We lived right on the border of Indiana, Illinois, and

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Speaker 3: the church was actually in Indiana.

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Speaker 1: How many people attended.

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Speaker 3: It couldn't have been more than like one hundred and fifty, okay,

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Speaker 3: But then people would come, and we lived right across

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Speaker 3: from the church because my dad was the assistant pastor,

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Speaker 3: and he took over the pastorship quite a bit because

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Speaker 3: the main pastor was such a legend in exorcisms. He

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Speaker 3: was traveling the world like a playboy, teaching like planning

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Speaker 3: these little seed churches and telling them how to do

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Speaker 3: all that stuff. My dad took over a lot. So

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Speaker 3: we lived right across from the church, and people would

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Speaker 3: come from all over the world and live in our

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Speaker 3: house who were needing to be exercised. So we had

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Speaker 3: all these interesting people with all these interesting issues.

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Speaker 1: Or a drama or something or serious.

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Speaker 2: Yes, Megan, I feel like also had people coming through

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Speaker 2: her house a lot growing up, but they were like

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Speaker 2: more like preachers and not like people who believed that

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Speaker 2: they were possessed by a demon, which just seems like

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Speaker 2: a whole nother I.

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Speaker 1: Mean, yeah, did you fully believe that they were like

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Speaker 1: in demons and these people are possessed and you just

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Speaker 1: have to go to sleep at night, which is already

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Speaker 1: terrifying as a child, but you think your house is

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Speaker 1: full of demon people.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a trip. I feel I'm so angry with

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Speaker 3: myself that I never question anything.

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Speaker 2: You know, as a seven year old what it is.

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Speaker 3: Is, don't you kids just get it? Like don't you know?

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Speaker 2: I didn't. You didn't Okay, I didn't know, Megan, did

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Speaker 2: I didn't.

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Speaker 3: Mean you didn't. So yeah, even early on, you've just felt.

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Speaker 1: I just remember asking my mom and I was like four,

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Speaker 1: like how do you know this Israel? And she got

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Speaker 1: so mad at me and she was like I just know,

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Speaker 1: And I was like, I think you need more more

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Speaker 1: than that, and that was the last time I ever

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Speaker 1: said anything like that to her.

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Speaker 2: But what's what's something that I think is interesting is

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Speaker 2: that Megan, it sounds like your experience with church was

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Speaker 2: like incredibly boring the whole time and incredibly like isolated.

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Speaker 2: I grew up Mormon Evan and then also had a

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Speaker 2: separate Mormon offshoot cult experience later on, but like my

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Speaker 2: childhood was just like straight Mormon. Yes, the church was

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Speaker 2: boring with a three hour long thing, but there was

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Speaker 2: a lot of community involved. And then also there were

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Speaker 2: a lot of these like heightened experiences where like in

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Speaker 2: my house we thought that an angel typed something on

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Speaker 2: the computer when we weren't looking, and we saw a

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Speaker 2: figure walking through the house. Multiple people saw a figure

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Speaker 2: walking through the house, and the no was there, and

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Speaker 2: like I thought I saw angels. There were all of

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Speaker 2: these like heightened emotional experiences or like peak experiences as

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Speaker 2: the logic bros call them, And I think that really

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Speaker 2: makes a difference in terms of whether you want to

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Speaker 2: stick with that belief system or not, because if it's

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Speaker 2: boring and I'm getting nothing out of it, there's no community,

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Speaker 2: there's no excitement, there's no, like, yes, I'm chosen, you know,

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Speaker 2: like yeah, moment then like what reason do you have

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Speaker 2: to keep leaving fear.

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Speaker 1: Of eternal health? But yeah, it wasn't enough.

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Speaker 3: Oh your sounds pretty awesome. Yeah that sounds fine, Like

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Speaker 3: that sounds like some fantastical like better than Santa Claus stuff.

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Speaker 2: It was really magical, it was, And that's a part

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Speaker 2: of why my feature that I wrote that was it

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Speaker 2: sort of inspired by it is called magical thinking because

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Speaker 2: it was very much this based on like signs and

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Speaker 2: visions and dreams and you know, like exciting anyway you

401
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Speaker 2: were fully in, yeah.

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Speaker 3: Totally, and when you're born into it, as I'm sure

403
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Speaker 3: you all know, it doesn't seem unusual to other people.

404
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Speaker 3: Seem unusual totally. Yeah, strange people, the ones talking themselves,

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Speaker 3: the ones who are literally eating the Bible, the ones

406
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Speaker 3: who are talking in weird voices, all that stuff like

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Speaker 3: that just is life. I never thought that I should,

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Speaker 3: you know, it never occurred to me to question. But

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Speaker 3: to your point, Megan, that one super potent seed of

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Speaker 3: you are a sinner and you could go to hell

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Speaker 3: if it's planeted right, It like subdues any other sort of.

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Speaker 2: Logic Yep, totally, And I should say I had the

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Speaker 2: fear as well. It wasn't all the like excitement and magic.

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Speaker 2: I definitely, like I've told the story a million times,

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Speaker 2: but the first time I had sex, which was outside

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Speaker 2: of marriage spoiler, I cried for hours because I thought

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Speaker 2: I had committed this horrible sin. And Mormons don't quite

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Speaker 2: believe in hell, but it amounts to the same thing, right.

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Speaker 1: Because you're not with the family, right if they're at

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Speaker 1: the higher attach.

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Speaker 2: Because I'm in a worst tear of heaven. I'm a sinner.

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Speaker 2: I've you know, well, I've done a horrible thing, so

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Speaker 2: that I think definitely factored into taking so long to

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Speaker 2: stop believing in it. Well, can you tell us about

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Speaker 2: some of what you saw in terms of the people

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Speaker 2: who were staying there, Like what were they exhibiting? How

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Speaker 2: did that look?

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Speaker 3: You know, it was just like in patches the people

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Speaker 3: who visited. Some just were not socially adapt some were hiding.

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Speaker 3: They seemed okay, but you could hear them in their

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Speaker 3: room talking to themselves or constantly pacing or whatever it is.

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Speaker 3: You know, one like I mentioned one did like eat

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Speaker 3: the Bible every day.

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Speaker 2: Like a page a day or like what was the pace.

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Speaker 3: I don't know what kind of program he was on,

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Speaker 3: but there's that scripture about eating the word and.

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Speaker 2: So oh my gosh.

438
00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:17,400
Speaker 3: And then you know, there were all the people who

439
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:20,560
Speaker 3: came to the church who I knew them outside of church,

440
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:23,760
Speaker 3: and they were just normal adults. And then you go

441
00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:26,280
Speaker 3: into the church and there were about three to four

442
00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:29,560
Speaker 3: services a week, and as the service ramps up and

443
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:32,040
Speaker 3: the people go to the front, and the ones who

444
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:35,119
Speaker 3: know they need to be prayed for, it was wild

445
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,639
Speaker 3: to watch that thing ramp up until they're out of

446
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:41,720
Speaker 3: their minds doing a lot of the things that you

447
00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:48,120
Speaker 3: would think of as exhibiting possession, so spitting up and

448
00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,240
Speaker 3: screaming and trying to hurt people and saying like just

449
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:54,480
Speaker 3: filthy stuff, until they had to be held down. And

450
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:57,520
Speaker 3: then you know, groups would gather around them and pray

451
00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:01,280
Speaker 3: over them. And it was wild in retrospect to know

452
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:04,440
Speaker 3: that normal adults were capable of that stuff.

453
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:09,560
Speaker 1: So the religion requires someone to be possessed. Like a church,

454
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:11,600
Speaker 1: nobody went up to the front and would be like,

455
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:12,280
Speaker 1: what are we going to do?

456
00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:16,520
Speaker 3: I think they would still have a sermon, Okay, they

457
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,720
Speaker 3: would still pray. People would stand up and speak in tongues,

458
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,000
Speaker 3: and then the rule, of course, is someone speaks in tongue,

459
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:26,640
Speaker 3: someone else has to interpret what they're saying, so then

460
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,479
Speaker 3: someone else, which is an awkward thing because you can

461
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:31,760
Speaker 3: see some people like sort of running out of esteem

462
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,560
Speaker 3: and the other guys still going. But there's all those

463
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 3: other things they could do, and then of course, like

464
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:41,720
Speaker 3: the peripheral stuff of don't pay your taxes or whatever else.

465
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:45,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, was this scary? Was there a day you remember

466
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 2: where you were like terrified, Like I can't imagine that

467
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:49,160
Speaker 2: would have been so scary.

468
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:53,440
Speaker 3: I'm more scared now thinking about it than I was then. Yeah,

469
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:54,760
Speaker 3: for some reason, it's not weird.

470
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:57,160
Speaker 2: I guess if it's like this is the place where

471
00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:59,639
Speaker 2: they are healed, so they're you know, this is just

472
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:03,520
Speaker 2: like temporary thing until they perceive the blessing or whatever.

473
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:04,960
Speaker 2: I guess that makes sense.

474
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:08,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess it's like you know, those acrobatic kids

475
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,159
Speaker 3: in the circus or whatever, that's their life and they

476
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:12,800
Speaker 3: know they have to do it, and so they don't

477
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 3: really think that it's scary or something. But yeah, to

478
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,960
Speaker 3: see people in those like extreme emotional states, I think

479
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:23,120
Speaker 3: it certainly sticks with you and now I think about

480
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:26,520
Speaker 3: it and it's kind of harrowing. But fact then yeah,

481
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:26,880
Speaker 3: so much.

482
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 2: Well, it just sounds really sad as someone who you

483
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:34,080
Speaker 2: know doesn't believe possessions are real, it just sounds super Do.

484
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:36,840
Speaker 1: You think it was people with severe mental illness that

485
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,399
Speaker 1: were mostly coming to your house or do you think

486
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:43,280
Speaker 1: it was people who are convincing themselves or what do

487
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 1: you think?

488
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 3: I think it was just a mix of stuff, you know,

489
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 3: people who needed therapy or medication or to work things

490
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:55,399
Speaker 3: out someway or another, and you know, and some searchers

491
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:57,920
Speaker 3: or some lonely people and it's just a whole grab

492
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:02,400
Speaker 3: bag of those folks you know, looking for things. Yeah,

493
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,600
Speaker 3: they did need attention, you know, perhaps to them for

494
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:08,719
Speaker 3: being proactive about trying to find it. But did it ever?

495
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:13,679
Speaker 3: I don't know. Actually, I really don't know. You know,

496
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 3: people would come and go, and there was that contingent

497
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:20,439
Speaker 3: who were always there, So yeah, I don't I don't know.

498
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 3: People seemed to come back. I will say this like

499
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 3: a cult I think of as some organization that really

500
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 3: guilts you into staying. That church did not do that.

501
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,800
Speaker 3: They preached deliverance and they preached you know, like come

502
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:37,959
Speaker 3: to us if you need to work something out or whatever.

503
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:41,439
Speaker 3: But I don't recall it being a place where they

504
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 3: were like really, you know, forcing you or guilting you

505
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 3: into staying.

506
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 2: Well, that's good.

507
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:47,360
Speaker 1: Yeah.

508
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:51,720
Speaker 2: I've seen like little documentaries and stuff about exorcists who

509
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:55,919
Speaker 2: charged like a lot of money for their exorcisms. Was

510
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 2: anybody paying for this? It was just free service.

511
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,120
Speaker 3: I mean I didn't see it. But you know, it's

512
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:04,440
Speaker 3: the tithing, it's the buying the books. I'm fascinated by

513
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:09,400
Speaker 3: the little church bookshops, bookstores, you know, and what's about there?

514
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:13,520
Speaker 3: And the tracks and the did you guys have tracks?

515
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:17,639
Speaker 3: In Mormon world? Did you have a a store? Like?

516
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 3: Did you have do you guys have stores?

517
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 2: And yeah, Mormons have stores? Yeah, Okay, what do they

518
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 2: have there?

519
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:25,720
Speaker 3: Oh?

520
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:30,719
Speaker 2: I mean LDS books and song books and little statues

521
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 2: and art and yeah.

522
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:36,159
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, say similar stuff some music or whatever?

523
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:37,359
Speaker 2: Scriptures?

524
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:38,160
Speaker 3: Yeah?

525
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:38,120
Speaker 5: Yeah.

526
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 3: Did they have the tracks like tapes? No? Tracks? Were

527
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:46,920
Speaker 3: these little booklets with parables in them about like some

528
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 3: guy sitting and then going to hell? And no, nothing like.

529
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,879
Speaker 2: I don't think we had that. We had like a

530
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:56,880
Speaker 2: like a reader's digest basically for Mormons.

531
00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:59,919
Speaker 3: But okay, I read I think I've read those I have.

532
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 3: I'd love to I forgot.

533
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:04,840
Speaker 2: The question it was do people pay our people?

534
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 3: Yea, as far as I knew, they weren't. But like

535
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 3: the main the head pastor was traveling all over and

536
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,440
Speaker 3: that was being paid for by the people who wanted

537
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 3: him to visit. I know they would give him a

538
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 3: generous offering wherever he went. I don't know about the

539
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:24,680
Speaker 3: pay for plaything.

540
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you were a child. I guess it makes

541
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:28,439
Speaker 2: sense you would never.

542
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 5: What was your receiverent take on the main preacher? Did

543
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:34,680
Speaker 5: you feel like are looking back? Are you like, oh,

544
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 5: he really believed it? Or oh he was maybe a

545
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 5: con man? Do you have any way you fall on that?

546
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 3: I mean, I think he was a showboat. He found

547
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 3: his thing. He just looked like a show like, you know,

548
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:51,120
Speaker 3: a barker at you know. It was just he caught

549
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 3: his thing and he was in love with himself. People

550
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 3: loved what he was doing, so he kept doing it.

551
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,439
Speaker 2: He's like loud and like the spirit of Jesus, Like

552
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:02,879
Speaker 2: is that kind of thing you know?

553
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:06,439
Speaker 3: No, he was more than just like chill. I got

554
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 3: it all figured out, Okay, Big dude. Yeah, it's a

555
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:12,399
Speaker 3: big dude. He took up a lot of space and

556
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 3: he just like he used the space in the room

557
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 3: and just kind of worked it. But it was it

558
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:21,439
Speaker 3: was like more of a cruise ship than a like

559
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:22,639
Speaker 3: a speedboat or something.

560
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 1: Gotcha got the vie.

561
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 3: When I was nine, my dad something was going inside

562
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:30,639
Speaker 3: him where he like, you thought some of the theology

563
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 3: was off. He made this sermon. I remember. I still

564
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 3: remember the sermon as a kid. That created a rift

565
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 3: in the church and it was enough for him to

566
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 3: have to leave. And it was inspired because he had

567
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 3: fallen in love with another church in Atlanta, and this

568
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:49,120
Speaker 3: church was a Pentecostal church. So he was like, Okay,

569
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 3: God's working in Atlanta. This thing here is a little

570
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 3: bit has fallen apart. We packed up and we moved

571
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 3: to Atlanta when I was nine, And so.

572
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 2: You moved there for the church.

573
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, you remember that.

574
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 1: That was different.

575
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 3: He had a falling out with the main pastor at

576
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 3: the exorcism church, this church down in Atlanta, and he

577
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 3: was like like he could just feel it. Yeah, it

578
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 3: was just one of those things. So I got theology,

579
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 3: but I think it really came down more to feeling.

580
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,959
Speaker 2: You actually participated in some of those exorcisms.

581
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a grandiose I'm taking a little too much pretter.

582
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 3: What I did was I would walk around and like

583
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 3: it help hold the people down. It was a big

584
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 3: dude and he was really causing problems, or walk around

585
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 3: with paper towel and wipe up their spit and stuff,

586
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 3: would throw up whatever.

587
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 2: Gosh, I think you're really down.

588
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 1: That's one of the most disturbing things. That's so horrifying

589
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 1: something And.

590
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 2: It sounds like it was so a matter of fact

591
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 2: for you that you're like, yeah, I wasn't a big deal.

592
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 2: I was cleaning up the spit of a mentally ill

593
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 2: person who thought that they were possessed or like, that's

594
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 2: that's very gnarly the.

595
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:04,479
Speaker 3: Way you frame it. I guess possibly. Yeah, but again,

596
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:07,720
Speaker 3: it was just like another day, another day at church.

597
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 2: You know, we've learned a lot about like varying types

598
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 2: of placebo that can be actually effective or not. And

599
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 2: I wonder how often an exorcism for someone who's experiencing

600
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 2: an infliction of the mind is eased by that exorcism.

601
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think often. Honestly, No, I agree.

602
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 3: It's it's like people just want to want to manifest,

603
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 3: Like they call it manifestation when a demon does it,

604
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 3: but people in general want to manifest in some way.

605
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 3: They want to be seen. They want to be seen

606
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 3: as struggling with something and just being seen like that.

607
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:48,959
Speaker 3: I think is it's helpful. I mean that's kind of

608
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:50,959
Speaker 3: I mean I don't know the ins and outs, but

609
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 3: it seems like therapy and all that kind of stuff.

610
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, see, that's an interesting point.

611
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 1: Just have that many people's attention on you at the

612
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 1: same time is something a lot of people will get.

613
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 1: You know, some people will never have one person care.

614
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 1: But all these people are there to do this.

615
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 3: For you, Like, yeah, they're holding you down, like all

616
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 3: those hands on you. Yeah, shite, I see you. I

617
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 3: can feel your struggle, I can feel your pain. I

618
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 3: mean that's gotta be therapeutic to some extent, right.

619
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so interesting because like, first you just have

620
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 2: the base of like I believe there's a demon inside

621
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 2: of me. I know that they're going to take it out.

622
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 2: There's just like that expectation. But then also, yes, the

623
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 2: feeling cared for thing, and something we've talked about a

624
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 2: handful of times is how like in placebo studies, the

625
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 2: way that the placebo is administered impacts how much symptoms

626
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 2: clear up, and in the more care that it's given

627
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 2: with the basically like the more effective it can be.

628
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 2: And in this situation like that you're talking about like

629
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 2: multiple people, like dozens of people are like holding you

630
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 2: and caring for you and like making you feel seen,

631
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 2: Like I can imagine that would be really potent. And

632
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 2: also it seems really great to have an outlet to

633
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 2: like fully get all the shit out of your body

634
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 2: that you're just holding in, Like we don't have sidal

635
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 2: permission to fucking scream and like say all the shit

636
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 2: in our heads, you know, Like that seems really therapeutic.

637
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 1: I know a lot of people, a lot of even

638
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 1: friends that I have who aren't really religious, but they

639
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 1: have a real fear of demons, which I've never I've

640
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 1: been afraid of everything, like all of it, but demons

641
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 1: was just never a fear of mine because I was like, well,

642
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 1: if God is real, then he beats them, so they

643
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 1: can't if I ask God to not let them ment,

644
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,239
Speaker 1: then they can't get in. So what was the like

645
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 1: go around with that? Like why couldn't you just make

646
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 1: Jesus remove this demon.

647
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 3: That was the whole fight was to to remove them.

648
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 3: The big thing I remember is geitting the demon to

649
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 3: say its name, and if it would reveal its name,

650
00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 3: then you could cast it out. So this finding was

651
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 3: like I rebuke you, and all that stuff, tell me

652
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 3: your name or what I can't remember exactly, you know,

653
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 3: all the verbiage, but it was constantly like tell me

654
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 3: your name, you know, all the stuff using God's name

655
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 3: and the trinity, saying the Trinity over and over again

656
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 3: and stuff like that, until the demon would say its name,

657
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:20,960
Speaker 3: and then they would then they had the control to

658
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 3: then say we cast you out.

659
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 2: So if people don't have like demon names in their memory, bank,

660
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 2: are they just being like it's.

661
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 1: Tod, can you do that? Robert?

662
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 3: That would be awesome if they were just kind of

663
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:42,479
Speaker 3: matter of fact.

664
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 1: But were they always magical?

665
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 3: Like all these people of course had read the Bible

666
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 3: a lot, so they sounded biblical, and we were also

667
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 3: because everyone was speaking in tongues, we were used to

668
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 3: odd sounding words being generated all the time. It seems

669
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 3: like there have been tom where people have spoken languages

670
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 3: that they didn't know. It felt like.

671
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 2: That sometimes my dad and I would play a game

672
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:09,320
Speaker 2: growing up where we would pretend to speak another language

673
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 2: and convince everyone that we were doing it and you weren't.

674
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 2: That's my story. Yeah, you know, like everyone thought we

675
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,800
Speaker 2: were speaking another language. My dad was also like constantly

676
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 2: in another country and spoke three languages legitimately, so everyone

677
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,360
Speaker 2: believed it. But also we were really good at it.

678
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:31,959
Speaker 1: That's so I could do that. When I was little.

679
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 1: I'd be like like really fast and my parents would

680
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 1: like stop, like you're speaking in tugs. You're not allowed

681
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 1: to do that, And I was like.

682
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:43,440
Speaker 2: Oh God, like it was very should we both do it?

683
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 3: Right?

684
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,399
Speaker 1: I mean I can't because I'm too I'm too shy

685
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 1: about it, but let's do it. Uh, not on a.

686
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:53,880
Speaker 2: Podcast, but release those tongues.

687
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 3: Yeah. That reminds me of a question I want to

688
00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 3: ask you before I'll forget it. Otherwise it sounds like

689
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,440
Speaker 3: you're f secular now, you're not too religious?

690
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 1: Correct?

691
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 3: Is there anything any teachings that you take with you

692
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:09,439
Speaker 3: that you still won't fuck with, Like like they tell

693
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:11,239
Speaker 3: you like not to do this or not, and you're like,

694
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 3: I'm still not going to do that.

695
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:19,359
Speaker 2: No, I have one that isn't because I actually believe it.

696
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 2: It's just because it hasn't happened yet. But I did

697
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:25,840
Speaker 2: cling to it for a long time, which is drinking.

698
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:31,800
Speaker 2: I've still never had any alcohol willingly. Ever, I don't

699
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 2: believe that it is morally wrong. I don't have an

700
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 2: issue with it. I'm going to drink at some point,

701
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:40,240
Speaker 2: but it took me years to even come to terms

702
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 2: with the fact that, like, yeah, I'm probably gonna drink,

703
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 2: because it had become so fused with my identity, Like

704
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 2: I was a non drinker girl, you know, like I

705
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:48,080
Speaker 2: was unique.

706
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 1: Everybody's driving away from a party, They're like, Lola didn't drink.

707
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 1: Did you see the non drinking girl?

708
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 3: So cool?

709
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:58,320
Speaker 2: Cool, I mean designated driver.

710
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 1: Wait when did you unwillingly drink? Did somebody spike you?

711
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:07,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, yes that has happened. As if I can't

712
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:11,840
Speaker 2: tell the second it enters though, but that has happened.

713
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 2: And then also I've been given just like the wrong

714
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 2: drink when someone ordered a vodka soda or whatever. When

715
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:19,360
Speaker 2: I was younger, dude would be like, hey, drink this coke,

716
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 2: and I'd be like, you're a monster, why would you

717
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 2: do this? So stupid anyway, it hasn't happened yet, but

718
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:29,359
Speaker 2: I do listen if this, if this short gets into

719
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 2: sun Dance, I'm fucking drinking absolutely.

720
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:34,879
Speaker 1: All right.

721
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 2: So exorcism Church, what a fascinating experience, at least to us.

722
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:41,680
Speaker 2: To you, it sounds like no big deal. So then

723
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:46,319
Speaker 2: you guys moved to Atlanta for this new church, for

724
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 2: the new.

725
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 3: Church, for the Pentecostal Church, and that had a cool

726
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 3: mythology cools maybe not the right word, but interesting. It

727
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 3: sprang up from an American who went to Argentina and

728
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 3: started a revival, became known as this Pentecostal force in Argentina.

729
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 3: You wrote a couple of books, so he became this figure.

730
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:14,319
Speaker 3: Then one of his sons came back to Georgia and

731
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:17,400
Speaker 3: started this church there that my dad wanted to be

732
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:21,239
Speaker 3: a part of. So really the power and like the

733
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:25,840
Speaker 3: aura came from the older guy named Poppy who was

734
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:29,279
Speaker 3: still in Argentina. Robert was the new guy who came

735
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:32,319
Speaker 3: to start the church in Atlanta. And it was like

736
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 3: full on everything. Really you could imagine Pentecostal church having

737
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 3: except for this there were no snakes, but there was

738
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 3: you know, of course, the falling over the praying and

739
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:46,959
Speaker 3: like the whole church falling over, or the whole church

740
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:50,240
Speaker 3: screaming for hours on end, or the whole church laughing

741
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 3: for hours on end. What.

742
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, can you describe the logistics of how a group

743
00:37:55,680 --> 00:38:00,239
Speaker 2: of people would scream or laugh for hours on end.

744
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, it would going back to the thing of seeing

745
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:09,640
Speaker 3: adults who seem normal then be in this bubble where

746
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 3: this other possibility was happening. It was about what the preacher,

747
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:16,719
Speaker 3: you know, whether it was Robert or one of his

748
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 3: the visiting people or assistant pastors, what stage they set

749
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:23,680
Speaker 3: for that day, whether it was like to experience a

750
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:25,360
Speaker 3: certain kind of joy or whatever. So they you know,

751
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:27,759
Speaker 3: they would see that into their sermon, which could go

752
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 3: on for hours, and then they would start to you know,

753
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:34,400
Speaker 3: maybe they would call someone out and say, like, I know,

754
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:36,840
Speaker 3: you feel the joy, and then the spotlight would be

755
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 3: on them and they would they would start to eventually laugh,

756
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 3: and then that laughed. You know, laughter is contagious, and

757
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:45,360
Speaker 3: so it would come and it would sweep in waves

758
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,960
Speaker 3: through the church until everybody was laughing. And then you know,

759
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:51,920
Speaker 3: the preacher would you know, say something else or for

760
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 3: you know, point out someone else, and it would come

761
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 3: again or whatever, and it would just sweep through the

762
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 3: church and waves like that and then would die down,

763
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:04,960
Speaker 3: it would ramp back up. It's wild to see what

764
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:08,120
Speaker 3: the human psyche can do, what.

765
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 1: Group thought can do. Did you like this church better?

766
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:16,280
Speaker 3: It was to me in retrospect it was less creepy.

767
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 3: It was it was there were more different things happened.

768
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:24,319
Speaker 3: They had they had more yeah, and other things on

769
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:28,440
Speaker 3: the menu. But you know, it was just it was

770
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:32,360
Speaker 3: cult of personality. Was the main preacher, taking advantage of

771
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:36,480
Speaker 3: everyone else and discouraging really any kind of rational thought.

772
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 3: They wouldn't invite other people's opinions about what they said,

773
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:43,440
Speaker 3: or they would call them out at the pulpit, and they,

774
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 3: you know, as the church is so good at doing,

775
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 3: they would lay so much guilt into everybody and attack

776
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 3: them in such, you know, different kinds of ways, like

777
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 3: they would have people come up to the front and

778
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 3: admit their sins in front of everybody else. I mean

779
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:00,439
Speaker 3: I did it as a as a tenure old. I'll

780
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 3: go up there with my microphone and you know, you

781
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 3: feel that and that just stays with you, that guilt,

782
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:08,800
Speaker 3: and so then the rest of the week you're thinking

783
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 3: what else is it? What else have I done wrong?

784
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:14,879
Speaker 3: What else have I done wrong? And it's like such

785
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:19,279
Speaker 3: an oppressive thing that's so powerful and so effective at

786
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 3: keeping people from.

787
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:23,360
Speaker 1: Thinking, Oh, do you still have the guilt?

788
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 3: Yeah? I think it's like you hear about Catholic guilt

789
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:27,319
Speaker 3: and things like that.

790
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:28,080
Speaker 1: Yeah.

791
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:32,120
Speaker 3: I think everyone who who has some sort of background

792
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 3: like that doesn't even realize they're doing it, but they're

793
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 3: they're judging themselves or second guessing themselves. So it's good

794
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 3: to be aware of it, you know, to try to

795
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 3: camp it down to.

796
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:46,000
Speaker 2: Some extent, you know, was the describing of the sins

797
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:48,920
Speaker 2: publicly the thing that like would erase them or like

798
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 2: clear you of them or like how.

799
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 3: Do you think? So? Yeah, because you're you're admitting your

800
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 3: sins before the people and before God, and so you're

801
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:02,280
Speaker 3: you're you know, that's thing is you're asking for forgiveness,

802
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 3: and that's that's the big part of it.

803
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:06,720
Speaker 2: How deep with these sins?

804
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:06,920
Speaker 3: You know?

805
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:10,359
Speaker 1: Could it be like I masturbated, I had a bad

806
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 1: thought about Tina, like planting at Tina? Like was it

807
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 1: that crazy?

808
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 3: Shit? No? Crazy? Really? Wow? I Mean the cool silver

809
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:23,800
Speaker 3: lining about this is I grew up with a little

810
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 3: crew of kids my age. We all went through this,

811
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:30,799
Speaker 3: so we've all seen each other like screaming for our

812
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 3: lives as child as children and falling over laughing or whatever,

813
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 3: and so it was like a crazy boot camp that

814
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 3: there's like no facade between us. We've all seen like

815
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 3: seen each other like crazy ship. There are better ways

816
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:49,279
Speaker 3: to bond, but that is a silver lining, I think.

817
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:51,280
Speaker 1: Well, you also be really good at improv.

818
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 3: I'm sure just emotional, like just emotional, really sad improv. Yeah, problem,

819
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:03,360
Speaker 3: not the funny one, but oh yeah. So one of

820
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 3: the ones we can bring up is one guy talking

821
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:08,960
Speaker 3: about getting up there and confessing how he wanted to

822
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 3: kill everybody and he wanted us through how he was

823
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:16,000
Speaker 3: going to do it, and then ask wow for forgiveness

824
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:16,439
Speaker 3: for it.

825
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:17,920
Speaker 1: How was he going to do it?

826
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:20,399
Speaker 3: Then he went sat back down with an assault right.

827
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 2: Oh my god.

828
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:24,920
Speaker 1: And he was not kicked out or and were you

829
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:28,279
Speaker 1: scared of him or you felt like, oh he got

830
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:29,280
Speaker 1: it out, oh okay.

831
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:29,720
Speaker 3: Wow.

832
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:34,080
Speaker 2: I wonder if that like curbed that desire in him

833
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 2: in any way. It might have on some level. Naming

834
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:43,560
Speaker 2: something out loud that's like that you're obsessing over, like

835
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:47,160
Speaker 2: I imagined can could be helpful potentially. Yeah, I'm not.

836
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:50,320
Speaker 3: A therapist by any means, but there is some truth

837
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:54,920
Speaker 3: in my gut. I feel like him saying it was

838
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 3: not a bad thing.

839
00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, a good like a healing thing.

840
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:01,680
Speaker 3: It was some sort of a bars and again the

841
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:05,759
Speaker 3: being seen like you guys, I hated you all so much.

842
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 3: I wanted to kill you. So now you're seeing how

843
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 3: much you hurt me, right, you know, And it's it's

844
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:14,359
Speaker 3: one of those pressure cookers of you're being told you're

845
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:16,439
Speaker 3: a sinner, you're being told all your thoughts are bad,

846
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 3: you're you're a horrible person, and so that adds to whatever,

847
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 3: you know, things are going on in his head, you know.

848
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:27,400
Speaker 3: So for him to be able to then release it, honestly,

849
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 3: it's it was at that point probably better than than not.

850
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:34,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've been thinking recently about paying a large amount

851
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:37,400
Speaker 1: of money to go to the rage room downtown. Have

852
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:40,120
Speaker 1: you guys heard about that? Would it be better for

853
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:42,680
Speaker 1: me and cheaper for me to just go to one

854
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 1: of these churches and kind of like the mosh pit

855
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 1: it out is that something you.

856
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:50,000
Speaker 3: Can do totally totally.

857
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:54,800
Speaker 1: Works out really Okay, they still have to be everywhere.

858
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 3: You know, there's all the different kinds.

859
00:43:57,400 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 2: I was gonna say, my old therapist is one of

860
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:02,880
Speaker 2: the that he and we never really did this to

861
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 2: any extreme extent, but one of the things that he

862
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:09,239
Speaker 2: would do, I know, with some of his patients was

863
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 2: like have them describe all of the like raged fantasies

864
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:16,920
Speaker 2: in their head that people don't want to say out loud,

865
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:19,400
Speaker 2: because when you feel anger on some level, you're like

866
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 2: I just want to strangle you, you know, like, and

867
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:24,319
Speaker 2: he would have. We did do it a little bit,

868
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:27,239
Speaker 2: but like fully, just like I want to say, there's

869
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:31,400
Speaker 2: like some punching pillows, others like like acting out your

870
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:33,800
Speaker 2: angers to like get it out of your body because

871
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 2: so many people like suppress their anger. I'm not, you know,

872
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:40,400
Speaker 2: one hundred percent sold on on that being the correct

873
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:42,719
Speaker 2: way to process anger, but it is a thing that.

874
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:46,279
Speaker 1: Will respond to.

875
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:49,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, from my understanding, there is research that like the

876
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:52,399
Speaker 2: more you focus on your anger that you can kind

877
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:55,200
Speaker 2: of make it grow. But also you don't you shouldn't

878
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:58,400
Speaker 2: be suppressing your feelings either, so it's like that happy medium.

879
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:02,439
Speaker 2: But anyway, again, yeah, I find it really interesting. It's

880
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:05,280
Speaker 2: like we do live in a time with less religion,

881
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:10,799
Speaker 2: although not governmentally speaking, but just overall societally, religion is

882
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:14,640
Speaker 2: the lowest it's been I think, like ever at least, yeah,

883
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:17,360
Speaker 2: I think ever, at least in America ever, And so

884
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:22,040
Speaker 2: we have lost some of these like outlets that are

885
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:24,840
Speaker 2: like therapeutic in a particular way and then harmful in

886
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 2: other ways obviously, but it makes me wonder, like I

887
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:30,719
Speaker 2: don't know, just like the function of group gathering in

888
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:34,880
Speaker 2: group expression is like something that does seem very beneficial

889
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:36,799
Speaker 2: depending on how about it.

890
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:40,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is interesting. It's like it gives

891
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:43,160
Speaker 3: obviously a few like a feeling of belonging and a

892
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:46,360
Speaker 3: feeling of being seen, and some least wild ones, a

893
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:49,440
Speaker 3: feeling of exercising to some you know, one way or

894
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 3: another other it's just screaming crying. It wouldn't work, But

895
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:56,399
Speaker 3: I love the idea of starting a restaurant where one

896
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:59,279
Speaker 3: of the main core they start by chopping up a

897
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 3: lot of onions in front of you, like as a prep,

898
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:04,920
Speaker 3: and so every like everybody's okay to cry, and it's

899
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:07,879
Speaker 3: like you get that out of the way and other

900
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 3: people are seeing you cry, and then you have a

901
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:14,920
Speaker 3: nice meal, and I don't know, what the perfect solution is,

902
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:16,840
Speaker 3: but it seems like it is good to you know,

903
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:18,160
Speaker 3: access that somehow.

904
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:21,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, that would be a really smelly restaurant. But I

905
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:27,080
Speaker 2: really love the idea. Just the most oniony fucking restaurant ever.

906
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:27,640
Speaker 1: I love.

907
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 3: They give you clothes, they give you like a cloak

908
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:32,520
Speaker 3: or something, so you don't oh.

909
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 2: You're onion clothesy, I got to cover your hair too.

910
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:38,600
Speaker 1: We don't have all the answers today, but if anyone

911
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:42,320
Speaker 1: wants a rest, it's just it's I just got.

912
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:45,120
Speaker 2: To make one more comment about the like group laughing

913
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:48,239
Speaker 2: and falling over and stuff, because it really sounds like Midsomar,

914
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:51,720
Speaker 2: Like it sounds like that scene where they're all laughing

915
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:54,520
Speaker 2: together and crying together. And maybe it was just like

916
00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:57,680
Speaker 2: so creepy, but you didn't find it creepy. You found it.

917
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:01,359
Speaker 3: Yeah. Again, I I didn't have the thing where I

918
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:03,960
Speaker 3: thought it was. You know, I didn't have any second thoughts.

919
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:06,720
Speaker 3: I just accepted, yeah, like an idiot.

920
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:10,719
Speaker 2: No, not like an idiot. I mean it sounds like it. Again.

921
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:14,360
Speaker 2: It sounds like a really like cathartic potentially and definitely

922
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:17,279
Speaker 2: like heightened emotional experience. And I could see how that

923
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:21,839
Speaker 2: would feel like something. It's a good thing, especially it's

924
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:23,240
Speaker 2: coming through God God.

925
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:26,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, if it were honestly, if it would have been

926
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:30,200
Speaker 3: one fifth as long each service, it probably would have

927
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:32,799
Speaker 3: been great. You know, you've got you get like one

928
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:34,920
Speaker 3: hour out of the way and then you're you go

929
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:37,439
Speaker 3: on with your day. But they were just so long. Yeah.

930
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 2: Those narcissists they love to talk, man, they just loved

931
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:40,920
Speaker 2: to keep talking.

932
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 3: Weird, they get the energy, I know.

933
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:47,840
Speaker 2: Narcissist never out of it. So crazy.

934
00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 3: Another question, have you run into the idea that as

935
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:57,319
Speaker 3: soon as your pastor starts to wear sunglasses inside, get

936
00:47:57,320 --> 00:47:58,319
Speaker 3: the fuck out of that church?

937
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:00,800
Speaker 2: No? I love that though.

938
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 3: It's I was thinking about our pastor in Atlanta. He

939
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:08,480
Speaker 3: started wearing sunglasses during a sermons at some point, and

940
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:11,160
Speaker 3: it's felt wrong, but he had a reason for it,

941
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:13,399
Speaker 3: like he was sensitive to light suddenly or some shit.

942
00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:15,359
Speaker 3: You know. Then you go back and you look at

943
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:18,560
Speaker 3: all the famous cult leaders and they all started to

944
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:21,640
Speaker 3: wear sunglasses during their sermons at some point, all the

945
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:22,120
Speaker 3: big ones.

946
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:28,240
Speaker 2: But do we think that's just like they think they're cool.

947
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:29,480
Speaker 1: I'm gonna wear sunglass.

948
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:33,440
Speaker 3: I have. I have a couple of ideas one is

949
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:38,160
Speaker 3: they have some brain situation that also allows them to

950
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:42,840
Speaker 3: accentuate the narcissist part. And the other thing is they're

951
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:45,880
Speaker 3: manipulating people to such a degree they don't want to

952
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:48,200
Speaker 3: be seen. Really, they don't want to It's like a

953
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:50,560
Speaker 3: poker player. They don't want people to be able to

954
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:54,760
Speaker 3: see back into themis yeah, yeah, And it also gives

955
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:58,480
Speaker 3: them another layer of power because they're able to look

956
00:48:58,520 --> 00:48:59,359
Speaker 3: inside them.

957
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:01,200
Speaker 2: Oh that's so interesting.

958
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:04,000
Speaker 1: Those are way better answers than mine that they just

959
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:07,280
Speaker 1: want to But to think.

960
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:11,839
Speaker 3: About it, I have one little thing that I think

961
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:15,160
Speaker 3: about all the time from that period regarding the preacher.

962
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:18,439
Speaker 3: They would all do this, but you know, before you'd

963
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:21,600
Speaker 3: fall over. They would everyone's standing, you know, sometimes for

964
00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:25,120
Speaker 3: hours praying and like searching their soul and stuff. And

965
00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:28,520
Speaker 3: they would, well, Robert and the other ones too, but

966
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:31,000
Speaker 3: Robert was really good at this. He would walk up

967
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:33,600
Speaker 3: next to you. Even a kid like I was a kid,

968
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:36,799
Speaker 3: whould do this. He would like, start to pray in

969
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:42,360
Speaker 3: your voice to God for you so trippy, so trippy.

970
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:43,200
Speaker 2: What does that mean?

971
00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:46,080
Speaker 3: So he would be like he would he would go

972
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:48,799
Speaker 3: up to you, set up to you, and then sort

973
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:52,320
Speaker 3: of like gay like sort of feel where your spirit

974
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:54,680
Speaker 3: was going or whatever. And then he'd be like, Okay,

975
00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 3: so this guy is not really praying out loud. He's not,

976
00:49:57,200 --> 00:49:59,360
Speaker 3: but I'll pray for him. And so he would take on.

977
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:01,960
Speaker 3: He wouldn't like he would talk like a little kid,

978
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:03,799
Speaker 3: but he would like he would start to say, oh,

979
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:06,759
Speaker 3: dear God, you know I know that you know I

980
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:09,239
Speaker 3: love you so much, and you know I know I've

981
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:12,960
Speaker 3: failed in certain ways and whatever it is. And but

982
00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:16,040
Speaker 3: it was like tweaked just to not for each each

983
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:19,800
Speaker 3: person where that was really personal. I was just thinking.

984
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:21,759
Speaker 3: I was trying to think if there's a parallel in

985
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:25,640
Speaker 3: therapy like that where the therapist just starts to say

986
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:29,040
Speaker 3: it for you, but it was some crazy shit.

987
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:33,000
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that sounds so disturbing.

988
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:36,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he would do, you know, like to another

989
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:39,000
Speaker 3: adult and like all from all walks of life, you

990
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:44,240
Speaker 3: would be able to do that. It's really wow, quite

991
00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:45,560
Speaker 3: a thing, what quite a trick.

992
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:49,439
Speaker 2: Well, And he can like I can imagine that would

993
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:51,759
Speaker 2: be the ultimate form of gaslighting too, because if he

994
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:55,720
Speaker 2: says something that's like not quite true, but you believe

995
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:59,880
Speaker 2: that he is speaking for you, I can just seem

996
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:03,000
Speaker 2: like am I having this that I guess that is

997
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:04,239
Speaker 2: what I think. I guess that is.

998
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:06,839
Speaker 3: That's a really good point.

999
00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:10,120
Speaker 2: What a manipulation tool that is. I mean, that's like

1000
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:11,560
Speaker 2: it's kind of brilliant for that.

1001
00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 1: And it's like you're speaking from God's point of view almost.

1002
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:20,200
Speaker 2: How do you question that? Yeah, that's fucking crazy. Is

1003
00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:21,920
Speaker 2: he still alive? Is he still around?

1004
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:23,799
Speaker 3: Yeah? So he got kicked out of that church and

1005
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:26,680
Speaker 3: then that for the normal reasons. He was taking money

1006
00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:28,760
Speaker 3: and using it for himself and he was having affairs

1007
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:32,520
Speaker 3: and all that bullshit that they all do. And then

1008
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:37,319
Speaker 3: he started another church. So he's doing that one now.

1009
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:39,800
Speaker 2: And is that still in Atlanta?

1010
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:40,480
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1011
00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:41,600
Speaker 2: Well, I can't wait to visit.

1012
00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:42,960
Speaker 1: How did you get out of it?

1013
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:45,640
Speaker 3: Thank God? It was like it's just a it was

1014
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:48,880
Speaker 3: like a smooth transition. I just I got older and

1015
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:52,880
Speaker 3: older and I stopped going as much, and my parents

1016
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:55,200
Speaker 3: really didn't put up a fight. Were you like sixteen

1017
00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:58,920
Speaker 3: or yeah, it's about the age I was. I was

1018
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:01,759
Speaker 3: going to a Christian too, though, so I guess they

1019
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:05,600
Speaker 3: figured I was, I would get my stuff there, right.

1020
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:09,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the like slow transition out of religion is

1021
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:13,400
Speaker 2: one that happens so much. I mean that that was

1022
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:14,080
Speaker 2: my deal too.

1023
00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:18,839
Speaker 1: I don't know what. I don't know what I did.

1024
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:21,800
Speaker 2: I think you're started younger.

1025
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:24,400
Speaker 1: So it's a process that I still deal with because

1026
00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:28,000
Speaker 1: of the guilt and the weird ship that's put in

1027
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:30,640
Speaker 1: you that it just makes me so mad at myself

1028
00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:33,000
Speaker 1: because I don't believe it. I don't want it. I

1029
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:36,200
Speaker 1: know it's slowing me down. I know it's worthless, and

1030
00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:39,640
Speaker 1: your brain is just like I don't care, it's what

1031
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:40,000
Speaker 1: I think.

1032
00:52:41,239 --> 00:52:42,360
Speaker 3: Give me I know what to do with this.

1033
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:45,400
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, And you just want to like shake yourself,

1034
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:47,879
Speaker 1: but you know it is, it is what it is.

1035
00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:51,600
Speaker 2: Your particular situation is so interesting to me, Megan, because

1036
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:54,360
Speaker 2: I feel like you knew from a very young age

1037
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:56,360
Speaker 2: that it wasn't real, and like you weren't a believer,

1038
00:52:56,840 --> 00:53:01,120
Speaker 2: but you've retained I think significantly higher amount of guilt

1039
00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:03,720
Speaker 2: than me. Like I think I've a lot.

1040
00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:06,960
Speaker 1: Of people who leave my same religion, like older, they're

1041
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:11,040
Speaker 1: already way ahead of me guilt wise, because mine was

1042
00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:14,839
Speaker 1: like my guilt started as a tiny little person being

1043
00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:17,800
Speaker 1: like why don't I believe this? I'm evil? Why can't

1044
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:20,279
Speaker 1: I see what they're seeing Why can't I hear God?

1045
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:23,799
Speaker 1: Why can't I Why isn't any of this happening to me?

1046
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:27,080
Speaker 1: And my parents are so smart that they're not making

1047
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:31,640
Speaker 1: it up, So I'm like evil and then you know

1048
00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:32,719
Speaker 1: it goes from that.

1049
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:34,880
Speaker 2: That is super super interesting.

1050
00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:35,160
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1051
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:37,640
Speaker 2: I felt guilt for my sins, and I felt guilt

1052
00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:39,279
Speaker 2: a couple of times for like not being able to

1053
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:42,080
Speaker 2: cry when everyone else was crying when they bore their

1054
00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:44,719
Speaker 2: testimony or whatever. But I didn't feel guilt for not believing,

1055
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:49,240
Speaker 2: so and I can't imagine how that would be more powerful. Yeah,

1056
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:52,160
Speaker 2: that's yeah, interesting, I've never thought of it like that. So, Evan,

1057
00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:55,640
Speaker 2: how do you feel about religion now? Are you spiritual?

1058
00:53:56,160 --> 00:53:58,799
Speaker 3: Well, I'm in la, so yeah, you have to kind

1059
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:03,120
Speaker 3: of have to be spiritual that. I think there's just

1060
00:54:03,160 --> 00:54:06,520
Speaker 3: a lot no one knows. No one knows what's out there.

1061
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:10,480
Speaker 3: Like I mentioned before, you know, everyone has a hole

1062
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:14,120
Speaker 3: and we're all trying to fill it. And is that

1063
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:17,080
Speaker 3: because there actually is something out there? I don't know.

1064
00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:19,799
Speaker 3: I don't if there is. I don't think we've we've

1065
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:22,279
Speaker 3: pinned it. I don't think anyone's nailed it with the

1066
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:25,680
Speaker 3: religious one. I think it's agree. Maybe there's maybe there

1067
00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:28,120
Speaker 3: is the right thing. I don't think any of us

1068
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:28,680
Speaker 3: are close.

1069
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:31,560
Speaker 1: I think the aliens hold the second part of the key.

1070
00:54:31,640 --> 00:54:34,080
Speaker 1: We have to put the two together and then we'll

1071
00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:35,760
Speaker 1: get we'll get a little bit further.

1072
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:39,600
Speaker 2: I was just gonna say, I think it's time for

1073
00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:42,160
Speaker 2: me to get really into space and that is going

1074
00:54:42,239 --> 00:54:46,760
Speaker 2: to be my spirituality. I was watching some some particle

1075
00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:49,560
Speaker 2: physics ship earlier. I don't know, like space is that'll

1076
00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:51,960
Speaker 2: just be my god. Aliens that they can do it too,

1077
00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:53,200
Speaker 2: quantum physics.

1078
00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:56,600
Speaker 3: There's a lot out there, and you know, then there's

1079
00:54:56,640 --> 00:54:59,959
Speaker 3: the simple answer that we're programmed to want to blue.

1080
00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:03,680
Speaker 3: There's something else, you know, so we'll be good stewards

1081
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:07,920
Speaker 3: or whatever. So there's that, and but but in general,

1082
00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:11,359
Speaker 3: I just really resent people taking advantage of that whole

1083
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:14,200
Speaker 3: we all have, you know. And yeah, I think I

1084
00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:17,560
Speaker 3: think everyone who's gone through anything, you know, sort of

1085
00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:20,880
Speaker 3: religious stuff probably feels that way. It's like it's just

1086
00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:25,360
Speaker 3: so wrong to take to take advantage of such a vulnerability.

1087
00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:28,600
Speaker 3: I really don't have any patients for that, but I'm

1088
00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:31,200
Speaker 3: still interested in the psyche of it, and I write

1089
00:55:31,239 --> 00:55:33,920
Speaker 3: about that and some of my my stories and stuff.

1090
00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:35,120
Speaker 3: So it's interesting.

1091
00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:38,000
Speaker 2: Speaking of which, do you want to give us a

1092
00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:41,439
Speaker 2: quick overview of what you do now? And also fun

1093
00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:44,279
Speaker 2: fact you used to be a trucker just to throw

1094
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:44,960
Speaker 2: it in somewhere.

1095
00:55:45,080 --> 00:55:48,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, well you just you beat me to the fun fact.

1096
00:55:48,080 --> 00:55:50,040
Speaker 3: But yeah, so I.

1097
00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:52,240
Speaker 2: Write.

1098
00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:56,200
Speaker 3: I just finished my first I write in direct films

1099
00:55:56,239 --> 00:55:58,840
Speaker 3: and stuff like that. So I just finished my first

1100
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:03,280
Speaker 3: feature that I directed and I co wrote with my sister.

1101
00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:04,200
Speaker 1: Cool.

1102
00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:08,839
Speaker 3: Cool, Yeah, it was super cool, and I'm working on

1103
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:11,799
Speaker 3: the one that we're gonna shoot later this year. You know.

1104
00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:16,680
Speaker 3: Then directed the standard you know, assortment of stuff to

1105
00:56:16,719 --> 00:56:19,440
Speaker 3: pay the bills music not music it is own does

1106
00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:22,000
Speaker 3: don't pay the bills. They're fun but I don't think

1107
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:25,440
Speaker 3: but and stuff like that.

1108
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:27,759
Speaker 2: Awesome, And where can people find you if they want

1109
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:30,320
Speaker 2: to know more about your past or present.

1110
00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:37,799
Speaker 3: Instagram's probably the place now, right, Yeah. Evan mccrispy on Instagram.

1111
00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:44,560
Speaker 2: Cool, awesome, thank you, Yeah, thanks for coming on.

1112
00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:46,480
Speaker 3: And therapeutic.

1113
00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:53,959
Speaker 2: That's what we want doing the Lord's work over there, okay, Megan, Yes,

1114
00:56:55,360 --> 00:56:58,480
Speaker 2: if you found out that a church in your neighborhood

1115
00:56:58,600 --> 00:57:02,120
Speaker 2: specialized in exorcisms, do you think that that would be

1116
00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:03,520
Speaker 2: a church that you would want to attend.

1117
00:57:03,719 --> 00:57:07,600
Speaker 1: Oh, absolutely, I mean just for the entertainment alone. I

1118
00:57:07,640 --> 00:57:11,600
Speaker 1: also got really into like seances and all that stuff

1119
00:57:11,640 --> 00:57:13,759
Speaker 1: as a child, you know, the whole deal. I would

1120
00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:16,360
Speaker 1: love to see an exorcism. I would love to go

1121
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:19,680
Speaker 1: scream into the night. Bring me there immediately.

1122
00:57:21,120 --> 00:57:23,280
Speaker 2: I know, I feel like I need an exorcism right now,

1123
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:25,520
Speaker 2: just to get this like anger out of my body.

1124
00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:29,120
Speaker 1: We should just go to scream. Like we said in

1125
00:57:29,120 --> 00:57:30,760
Speaker 1: the episode, it's a free rage room.

1126
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:34,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's start a non denominational church where it's just

1127
00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:39,240
Speaker 2: strictly about the church of rage, getting your fucking emotions out.

1128
00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:41,320
Speaker 2: I don't think I would join that church, but I

1129
00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:43,520
Speaker 2: think I would definitely be interested intending, and then I

1130
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:45,320
Speaker 2: think I would stop attending because I think I would

1131
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:46,560
Speaker 2: It would make me really sad.

1132
00:57:46,680 --> 00:57:50,440
Speaker 1: Yes, probably that's probably the exact journey I would be

1133
00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:51,000
Speaker 1: on as well.

1134
00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:54,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, but wow, what a way to grow up that. Yeah,

1135
00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:56,880
Speaker 2: it's so funny how Evan's like, yeah, I mean whatever,

1136
00:57:56,960 --> 00:57:59,640
Speaker 2: it was just you know, wasn't that big. I'm like you,

1137
00:57:59,640 --> 00:58:02,840
Speaker 2: you do not seem to understand how fascinating your childhood is.

1138
00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:05,120
Speaker 1: It's just so wild. How fast we can get used

1139
00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:05,600
Speaker 1: to things.

1140
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:07,880
Speaker 2: I know, if you grow up and it just seems

1141
00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:10,800
Speaker 2: so normal and it seems so boring, even just regular Mormonism.

1142
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:12,240
Speaker 2: I grew up taking it like this is so boring?

1143
00:58:12,240 --> 00:58:14,200
Speaker 2: Why is anyone like asking me questions about it? But

1144
00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:16,439
Speaker 2: then now I'm like, looking back, I'm like, oh, yeah,

1145
00:58:16,480 --> 00:58:18,479
Speaker 2: like some of that's kind of weird. That's like pretty weird,

1146
00:58:19,880 --> 00:58:23,240
Speaker 2: very weird. Also could the prophet we believed in that

1147
00:58:23,240 --> 00:58:25,920
Speaker 2: stuff pretty weird didn't talk about it for like fifteen years.

1148
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:30,320
Speaker 1: But yeah, uh yeah, I would go and probably.

1149
00:58:30,080 --> 00:58:34,200
Speaker 2: Twice, once to observe and once to participate exactly. But

1150
00:58:34,240 --> 00:58:36,320
Speaker 2: then you have to tell people you think you're possessed,

1151
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:37,440
Speaker 2: which would be a lie.

1152
00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:40,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm possessed by certain aspects of my personality.

1153
00:58:40,560 --> 00:58:42,800
Speaker 1: I'm possessed by my shadow self sometimes.

1154
00:58:43,160 --> 00:58:44,600
Speaker 2: Either way, come join.

1155
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:45,160
Speaker 1: Us next week.

1156
00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:47,840
Speaker 2: I won't cry next time.

1157
00:58:47,960 --> 00:58:49,919
Speaker 1: We'll see. We'll see if you do, it's fine.

1158
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:50,680
Speaker 2: Stay tuned.

1159
00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:54,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, as always, remember to follow your gut, watch out

1160
00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:55,840
Speaker 1: for red flags.

1161
00:58:55,400 --> 00:59:05,920
Speaker 2: And never ever trust me. Bye bye