WEBVTT - Rebirth by Divorce 0:00:01.000 --> 0:00:06.000 This is the most dramatic podcast ever. And iHeartRadio podcast 0:00:08.280 --> 0:00:11.400 Chris Harrison Lauren z mcomedy from the home office in Austin, Texas, 0:00:11.400 --> 0:00:15.800 And today we're talking about divorce. Don't worry, it's not ours, 0:00:16.480 --> 0:00:20.960 but could divorce be positive? Could it be a positive experience? 0:00:21.360 --> 0:00:24.000 And I'll be honest, I did not know the phrase 0:00:24.160 --> 0:00:26.720 that I'm going to say to you right now, divorce coach. 0:00:26.800 --> 0:00:28.680 I had not heard of a divorce coach. Didn't know 0:00:28.720 --> 0:00:31.640 what it was. I was reading an article and saw 0:00:31.680 --> 0:00:35.440 the headlines, as many of us have. Former Bachelor lums 0:00:35.440 --> 0:00:38.919 Brian Abassolo and Rachel Lindsay are going through a divorce. 0:00:39.159 --> 0:00:44.600 Apparently it's pretty toxic, and Brian has urged us to 0:00:44.720 --> 0:00:47.080 use a divorce coach. He's using one. He's been very 0:00:47.120 --> 0:00:49.920 open about this, and I found it intriguing because Elsie, honestly, 0:00:49.960 --> 0:00:52.240 I didn't know when I came to you and you said. 0:00:52.880 --> 0:00:54.480 No, I had never heard of a divorce coach. 0:00:54.920 --> 0:00:58.360 So we just wanted to explore what this is, and, 0:00:59.160 --> 0:01:01.400 like we said, just kind of sought in passing headlines. 0:01:01.440 --> 0:01:03.760 But as two divorce as we were curious did we 0:01:03.800 --> 0:01:04.440 make a mistake? 0:01:04.520 --> 0:01:06.800 Should not have the product of divorce. Yeah, you and 0:01:06.800 --> 0:01:07.800 I have both been through them. 0:01:07.720 --> 0:01:09.080 So we have used a divorce coach. 0:01:09.160 --> 0:01:13.480 So we got in touch with Tara Eisenhardt and she 0:01:13.800 --> 0:01:16.760 sounds like one of the best of the best. She 0:01:16.840 --> 0:01:19.520 has been a divorce coach for well over a decade. 0:01:20.280 --> 0:01:23.720 She studied divorce coaching. She is known as a pioneer 0:01:23.840 --> 0:01:27.679 in the field. She is trained in mediation, Advanced mediation, 0:01:27.880 --> 0:01:32.959 Family mediation. She's completed training in conflict coaching, collaborative law, 0:01:33.120 --> 0:01:37.520 nonviolent communication, active parenting, and dissolving conflict from within, and 0:01:37.560 --> 0:01:41.440 in twenty nineteen achieved the status of CDs Certified Divorce 0:01:41.480 --> 0:01:46.600 Specialist through the National Association of Divorce Professionals. So we 0:01:46.640 --> 0:01:49.880 are so excited to welcome this expert in divorce coaching 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:52.080 and to learn about what this is. We are going 0:01:52.160 --> 0:01:54.440 to get into how much it costs, what exactly a 0:01:54.480 --> 0:01:56.800 divorce coach does, and with one whether or not you 0:01:56.840 --> 0:01:57.200 need one. 0:01:57.280 --> 0:01:59.680 She is a six degree black belt in divorce. 0:02:00.240 --> 0:02:03.040 Please welcome Tara Eisenhard. 0:02:02.680 --> 0:02:05.680 And Tara joins us. Now, first of all, thank you 0:02:05.800 --> 0:02:07.800 for joining us. It's good to have you on the show. 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:09.560 Thank you, happy to be here. 0:02:10.080 --> 0:02:12.080 As Lord and I were just talking about in the intro. 0:02:13.440 --> 0:02:18.720 Until the recent headlines, we hadn't heard of a divorce coach, 0:02:18.840 --> 0:02:22.560 which is ironic because my parents are divorced. Lauren and 0:02:22.600 --> 0:02:26.040 I have both been through a divorce, and I think, man, 0:02:26.080 --> 0:02:28.200 did we miss something? Like we should have found this 0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:29.880 on a good gues I feel like this might have 0:02:29.919 --> 0:02:33.680 been a daily and a lot of dollars short. But Tara, 0:02:33.800 --> 0:02:37.360 let's start off by what is a divorce coach and 0:02:37.440 --> 0:02:38.359 why do we need one? 0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:42.320 All right, so there are I want to start by 0:02:42.400 --> 0:02:45.760 saying there are different kinds of divorce coaches with different backgrounds, 0:02:45.800 --> 0:02:48.960 that we work differently. So the way that I work, 0:02:49.120 --> 0:02:51.079 I like to tell people I'm here for the human 0:02:51.200 --> 0:02:53.919 side of the process. I believe divorce is a human 0:02:54.000 --> 0:02:57.720 process with a legal document attached to it. And so 0:02:57.880 --> 0:03:02.239 while people are working on gaining legal document, they're dealing 0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:05.640 with changing relationships. They're dealing with the need for self 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:09.440 care and setting boundaries and having difficult conversations. And That's 0:03:09.480 --> 0:03:13.119 what I'm there for. And I'm a coach, not a therapist. 0:03:13.160 --> 0:03:16.280 So that's also a really important distinction. Coaching is a 0:03:16.360 --> 0:03:20.919 directional process, whereas therapy goes deep I don't unpack emotional baggage. 0:03:21.000 --> 0:03:23.440 I don't make diagnoses or anything like that. I don't 0:03:23.480 --> 0:03:26.840 deal with childhood trauma. My work is very much focused 0:03:26.880 --> 0:03:29.720 on where are you right now? What are the challenges 0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:32.079 you're dealing with. How can we help you to move 0:03:32.120 --> 0:03:35.000 forward by taking some next steps or shifting mindset. 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:38.600 Not as much looking backwards as much as let's move forward, 0:03:38.640 --> 0:03:41.160 and how can we do so in a healthy, positive 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:45.760 way exactly. I find it interesting that you made this 0:03:45.920 --> 0:03:50.520 choice to this is your calling and became your passion, 0:03:50.640 --> 0:03:53.040 because obviously it's something you went through your parents and 0:03:53.080 --> 0:03:55.520 you got divorce. You've been broken up with and you've 0:03:55.560 --> 0:03:58.240 broken up with people. But it's funny that you decided, Okay, 0:03:59.080 --> 0:04:01.520 I'm going to go into this, I'm going to study divorce. 0:04:02.040 --> 0:04:04.240 What was that light bulb moment where you're like that, 0:04:04.320 --> 0:04:07.400 I want to now figure this out. 0:04:07.760 --> 0:04:10.760 Yeah. So when my parents got divorced back in the 0:04:10.760 --> 0:04:15.080 previous millennium, it started off. I told you, they didn't 0:04:15.160 --> 0:04:17.640 give me all the information upfront. I didn't know how 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:20.640 things were going to go. It was really scary. It 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:23.159 was nerve wracking. But ultimately what I learned from that 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:26.000 process is that it was a benefit to my family, 0:04:26.000 --> 0:04:29.279 and my parents' relationship improved as a result of their divorce, 0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:32.560 and so my life improved, My family got better, and 0:04:32.640 --> 0:04:35.280 I grew up from there on thinking that divorce was 0:04:35.320 --> 0:04:38.239 a solution to a problem. And then I got married, 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:40.800 and when I got divorced, we realized that it was 0:04:40.800 --> 0:04:43.800 the solution to the problem that our marriage was and 0:04:43.920 --> 0:04:48.520 I was really happy about that, but nobody was happy 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:51.000 for me. And that was the first time I realized 0:04:51.080 --> 0:04:54.640 how toxic, yeah, how toxic our culture is around divorce. 0:04:54.800 --> 0:04:56.960 Everybody was angry for me. They were sad for me. 0:04:57.000 --> 0:04:58.600 They were telling me that I need to, you know, 0:04:58.600 --> 0:05:01.880 take them to the cleaners, whatever. And I didn't feel 0:05:01.880 --> 0:05:05.360 that way. So I started looking why does divorce make 0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:08.560 people crazy? What is going on? Why do we look 0:05:08.600 --> 0:05:11.599 at it this way? And I read every book that 0:05:11.680 --> 0:05:14.360 I could find, and I listened to the experts that 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:19.000 I could find, and eventually I started a blog because 0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:20.800 my friends and family got sick of listening to me 0:05:20.839 --> 0:05:24.320 talk about divorce all the time. Years after I got divorced, 0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:27.960 and then I just kind of it went from there. 0:05:28.640 --> 0:05:30.880 Once I joined Twitter, that was when I found a 0:05:30.920 --> 0:05:33.520 divorce coach, and I thought, oh my gosh, that's it. 0:05:33.520 --> 0:05:34.599 That's exactly what I want to. 0:05:34.600 --> 0:05:35.440 Do, Tara. 0:05:35.839 --> 0:05:40.039 My first instinct would it be a maybe top level 0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:42.880 service level, but would it be a faiish analogy to say, 0:05:43.360 --> 0:05:46.159 you're almost like a midwife helping someone through labor, Like 0:05:46.200 --> 0:05:48.040 you're not the doctor, but you're a midwife. 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:52.080 Yes. Actually, another thing that I like to say is 0:05:52.120 --> 0:05:56.520 that divorce is a birth. So yes, absolutely midwife. 0:05:56.600 --> 0:05:58.359 Oh love that a birth, a rebirth. 0:05:58.960 --> 0:06:00.720 I was reading through your bi and one thing I 0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:03.640 absolutely loved that you said in your bio. And I'll 0:06:03.680 --> 0:06:05.760 just read a few quotes from here because they're all great, 0:06:05.760 --> 0:06:09.320 but you say of yourself, she has been cheated, she 0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:12.240 has been left, she has left, she has been broken, 0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:15.320 and put herself back together. And what I love here 0:06:15.440 --> 0:06:19.440 is that you say that you refuse to view divorce 0:06:19.560 --> 0:06:22.520 as a problem. You prefer instead to see it as 0:06:22.520 --> 0:06:25.039 a solution. And that's something that Chris and I say 0:06:25.040 --> 0:06:26.520 a lot, Like we recently did a Q and A 0:06:26.600 --> 0:06:28.440 on the podcast and someone asked us, how do you 0:06:28.520 --> 0:06:30.760 know when it's time to get divorced? And as we 0:06:30.760 --> 0:06:32.760 were answering that, like one of the things I said was. 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:35.799 I think it's really hard because I think overall people 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:38.840 view divorce as this failure, is this very negative thing, 0:06:39.360 --> 0:06:42.359 and I think, you know, for me, I thought, look, 0:06:42.480 --> 0:06:45.080 I had my marriage, I tried at it, I learned 0:06:45.120 --> 0:06:48.920 a lot from it. Mistakes were made, but ultimately it 0:06:49.000 --> 0:06:52.360 was better and more positive to move forward separately. And 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:55.280 so do you find that that's an issue people like 0:06:55.360 --> 0:06:57.240 that you have to talk through people with or is 0:06:57.279 --> 0:06:59.599 that part of your job to help them reframe divorce. 0:07:00.920 --> 0:07:04.120 Yes, that's a really big one for people. As a culture, 0:07:04.600 --> 0:07:08.479 we tend to prize marriage and despise divorce, and so 0:07:08.640 --> 0:07:11.040 people going through divorce they think they're a bad person 0:07:11.160 --> 0:07:14.000 or a bad parent, they think that they're a bad partner, 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:17.360 and none of that is true. I really believe that, 0:07:17.640 --> 0:07:19.760 you know, people change all the time. I'm not the 0:07:19.760 --> 0:07:22.800 same person I was six minutes ago, let alone six 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:26.640 months ago, let alone six years ago. And relationships change too, 0:07:26.920 --> 0:07:31.440 And that's okay, it's normal, it's healthy. Sometimes a marriage 0:07:31.480 --> 0:07:34.840 runs its course and it's simply complete, and it's time 0:07:34.840 --> 0:07:37.920 to move on and find something new, starting a new 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:39.560 chapter in a new way of relating. 0:07:40.040 --> 0:07:43.480 I said in the same conversation, It's how I felt 0:07:43.480 --> 0:07:47.320 in my divorce is when I could no longer affect change. 0:07:47.360 --> 0:07:49.920 I couldn't bring happiness to my spouse, I couldn't bring 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:52.600 happiness to my own life. I couldn't affect that change. 0:07:52.640 --> 0:07:55.520 Neither could she. So we amicably decided to move on. 0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:58.520 And Laura and I are both proponents of a positive 0:07:59.400 --> 0:08:02.160 you know, look, it can't always be amicable. We wish 0:08:02.160 --> 0:08:04.800 it could. It can't, but you know, at least a 0:08:04.880 --> 0:08:07.000 positive divorce, and that's what I like that you put 0:08:07.040 --> 0:08:09.960 a positive spin on it. You are not the let's 0:08:10.000 --> 0:08:14.160 get them screw them, It is trying to it sounds 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:16.400 like work within the parameters of what we got and 0:08:16.440 --> 0:08:17.360 make the best of it. 0:08:17.760 --> 0:08:19.920 What are some of the things that you typically find 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:23.200 yourself advising people on, like overall the most common issues 0:08:23.240 --> 0:08:25.600 that you see and how you kind of help people 0:08:26.080 --> 0:08:29.160 reframe and better the situation that they're in as they're 0:08:29.160 --> 0:08:30.080 working through a divorce. 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:33.360 Well, shame is a really big one, so we talked 0:08:33.360 --> 0:08:35.560 about that a little bit. I talk a lot about 0:08:35.679 --> 0:08:38.640 reframing this so that they can feel good about themselves, 0:08:38.880 --> 0:08:42.200 so that they can feel good about their relationship, and 0:08:42.240 --> 0:08:44.360 so that they can also help their children to feel 0:08:44.400 --> 0:08:46.800 good too. This is a really big one that comes 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:50.240 up because a lot of times people don't necessarily think 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:52.440 about They think about the kids, but they don't think 0:08:52.440 --> 0:08:55.920 about the kids in terms of children need to feel 0:08:55.960 --> 0:08:58.640 good about where they came from, and they need to 0:08:58.760 --> 0:09:03.000 know that their parents are good people, that they love them, 0:09:03.040 --> 0:09:05.679 that they support them. And so I talk about that 0:09:05.840 --> 0:09:08.640 as well, and how can we position that it's not 0:09:08.720 --> 0:09:11.200 just for you, but also for the whole family, the 0:09:11.320 --> 0:09:14.920 story of how this family is moving forward. And on 0:09:14.960 --> 0:09:16.880 that note, I also talk to people a lot about 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:19.760 how to talk to their kids about the divorce, how 0:09:19.800 --> 0:09:22.280 to talk to other people about their divorce, and how 0:09:22.320 --> 0:09:25.120 to take care of themselves throughout that process. And when 0:09:25.120 --> 0:09:27.199 I talk about self care, I say that it's about 0:09:27.240 --> 0:09:32.680 three main things. Self care is about respecting yourself, protecting yourself, 0:09:32.720 --> 0:09:35.640 and investing in yourself. And so I dive into each 0:09:35.679 --> 0:09:38.720 of those components with people as they're navigating this process, 0:09:38.760 --> 0:09:41.120 whether that means that they need to eat better food, 0:09:41.120 --> 0:09:42.839 they need to set better boundaries, or they need to 0:09:42.880 --> 0:09:44.040 look at their goals for the future. 0:09:44.800 --> 0:09:46.920 Can we back up and kind of dive into the 0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:49.600 kid thing. I'm very interested in that because as I 0:09:49.720 --> 0:09:52.120 was going through my divorce, I had young kids, and 0:09:52.200 --> 0:09:55.200 I know that people listening right now are going through 0:09:55.240 --> 0:09:59.720 that similar situation. What are some keys that we can 0:09:59.760 --> 0:10:02.320 take way? What are some things you could help us 0:10:02.400 --> 0:10:06.600 with about communicating with our kids as we go through divorce. 0:10:07.760 --> 0:10:11.520 So it's really important that you consider the age and 0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:17.040 stage of children. Kids who are younger have a the 0:10:17.280 --> 0:10:20.240 You know, their cognitive function isn't there at adulthood yet, 0:10:20.320 --> 0:10:22.880 and so they tend to be very self centered view 0:10:22.880 --> 0:10:26.120 the world. According to them, these are where you want 0:10:26.160 --> 0:10:29.320 to focus on. It's not your fault. There's nothing that 0:10:29.400 --> 0:10:32.760 you did wrong, you couldn't have behaved better to keep 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:35.760 your parents together. That kind of message is really important 0:10:35.760 --> 0:10:39.400 for younger children as they get older. They want to 0:10:39.440 --> 0:10:43.320 know how does this impact me? What's going to happen next? 0:10:43.320 --> 0:10:46.080 And really that's important at any stage. But it's not 0:10:46.160 --> 0:10:49.400 your fault. Isn't quite so important for teenagers as it 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:52.400 is for younger kids, but everybody wants to know what 0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:54.360 does this mean, What does this mean for me? What 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:56.600 does this mean for my family? What can I expect next? 0:10:56.679 --> 0:10:58.840 And when is it going to happen? And so when 0:10:58.840 --> 0:11:01.679 I coach people on talking to their children. I coach 0:11:01.760 --> 0:11:04.920 them around that as well. Don't tell them we're going 0:11:05.000 --> 0:11:07.959 to get divorced at some point in the future and 0:11:08.080 --> 0:11:11.280 we don't know. Kids get really anxious. They want to 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:14.240 know what is happening. And that happened to me with 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:17.400 my parents too. They had the big discussion. I overheard 0:11:17.400 --> 0:11:19.560 the fight. They said to me, yeah, we're probably going 0:11:19.640 --> 0:11:22.080 to get divorced. We don't know, but we'll let you know. 0:11:22.559 --> 0:11:24.760 And in the meantime, I came up with all kinds 0:11:24.760 --> 0:11:28.320 of scenarios in my head. I determined what their divorce 0:11:28.400 --> 0:11:31.079 needed to be. And when they told me what was happening, 0:11:31.080 --> 0:11:34.439 and it wasn't what I had anticipated, it was very upsetting. 0:11:34.760 --> 0:11:37.840 So it's really important to just be there for kids. 0:11:38.040 --> 0:11:40.880 Let them know that you know, we're still your parents, 0:11:40.920 --> 0:11:43.120 we're still a family, We're going to work through this together, 0:11:43.440 --> 0:11:45.960 and this is exactly what you can expect moving forward. 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:48.960 I also tell people to have ongoing family meetings with 0:11:49.000 --> 0:11:49.680 their kids too. 0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:56.240 Kids need boundaries and facts and clarity versus well if 0:11:56.320 --> 0:11:58.079 and when and with yeah God, and like. 0:11:58.040 --> 0:12:01.959 You said, as soon as my kids realize they're okay, oh, 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:03.640 I can still go to my own school. I'm still 0:12:03.640 --> 0:12:05.440 going to soccer practice, I'm still going to have a 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:10.520 sleepover at Timmy's. Christmas still exists, Like okay, I'm okay, 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:13.679 because their world still exists. So it was just reassuring 0:12:13.720 --> 0:12:15.679 them of those things was really helpful. 0:12:17.160 --> 0:12:29.160 Absolutely one thing. 0:12:29.160 --> 0:12:30.920 I because I didn't have kids, by the way, But 0:12:31.679 --> 0:12:34.240 as you're just saying that, honey about like their soccer 0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:36.719 practice and all that, is it important once when the 0:12:36.760 --> 0:12:40.280 divorce is happening, to keep things as similar as they 0:12:40.280 --> 0:12:43.520 were before, or is there do you advise on any 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:46.079 level like, Okay, this is kind of your new life now, 0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:48.240 and here's what's maybe exciting about your new life. 0:12:48.800 --> 0:12:50.320 You tell me what's the right way to handle that? 0:12:51.200 --> 0:12:53.360 Well, a little bit of both. And I always tell 0:12:53.440 --> 0:12:56.280 people that you can listen to all of the experts. 0:12:56.400 --> 0:12:58.720 You can listen to the podcast, you can read all 0:12:58.760 --> 0:13:02.440 the books. Nobody knows your family better than you. So 0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:05.400 when I'm coaching parents, I always remind them of that 0:13:05.480 --> 0:13:08.520 to bring their own expertise into this conversation. They know 0:13:08.559 --> 0:13:12.240 their kids, they know what their kids' boundaries are, they 0:13:12.280 --> 0:13:15.520 know what their kids' anxieties are, and as they're navigating 0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:18.080 the space. It's very important for them to consider that 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:20.280 in the ways that they're talking to their children. So 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:23.640 some kids might be really excited about a new beginning 0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:25.840 and they want to move to a new house, and 0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:27.760 they want to decorate a new bedroom, and they want 0:13:27.800 --> 0:13:29.600 to go to a new school and meet new friends. 0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:32.720 And I can't imagine that, but I think there's some 0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:34.600 kids out there that might feel that way. And in 0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:37.440 that case, yeah, go ahead, hype it up and say, yeah, 0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:38.960 there's going to be all of these new changes and 0:13:39.000 --> 0:13:42.000 it's really exciting. And some kids will just turn it 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:44.240 into a ball of anxiety about any of those things. 0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:48.600 And so for that case, it's really important to maintain routines, 0:13:48.760 --> 0:13:52.280 maintain structure, look at the things that are staying constant 0:13:52.360 --> 0:13:56.560 and steady, and still position those new changes as something 0:13:56.640 --> 0:14:00.760 that is an opportunity as opposed to something more negative. 0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:03.840 I like to, you know, encourage people to use words 0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:08.120 like curious instead of nervous, really curious to see how 0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:10.760 this is going to play out, what this is going 0:14:10.800 --> 0:14:14.600 to look like, and you know, just be interested and 0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:16.000 curious throughout the process. 0:14:16.559 --> 0:14:20.520 I saw someone say recently that the biggest they it 0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:22.680 was a doctor, and she was saying that she thinks 0:14:22.720 --> 0:14:26.800 the biggest barrier people have to happiness is an inability 0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:29.520 to change, like an inability to be flexible, because life 0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:32.000 will change and it will keep coming at you. So 0:14:32.120 --> 0:14:34.520 I love that. I want to get back a little 0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:37.560 bit to the divorce coach. What is it? And like 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:39.680 Chris and I said, we were just as we saw 0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:42.680 this in some headlines recently. We were both so blown 0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:44.880 away that we didn't know divorce coaches existed. 0:14:45.280 --> 0:14:45.880 When do you. 0:14:45.840 --> 0:14:48.520 Typically come into the picture, Like do you find that 0:14:48.560 --> 0:14:52.120 you are advising people on whether to get divorced or not? 0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:55.200 Or are you typically called when the decision has already 0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:57.360 been made? How much do you advise on should you 0:14:57.400 --> 0:15:00.400 get divorced versus Okay, you're getting divorced, let me help 0:15:00.440 --> 0:15:02.240 you from here, all right? 0:15:02.320 --> 0:15:04.400 So I never tell people whether or not they should 0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:10.400 get divorced. That is not right. Once again, that is 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:13.200 not my area of expertise. People know their marriage better 0:15:13.240 --> 0:15:16.200 than I ever could. But I do come into the 0:15:16.240 --> 0:15:18.920 process at all stages of the process, and typically when 0:15:18.920 --> 0:15:22.080 I'm working with people in the very beginning, something that 0:15:22.120 --> 0:15:24.080 I do recommend to them if they don't know, if 0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:26.400 they're on the fence, you know, should I stay or 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:29.400 should I go? There's some resources out there. There are 0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:34.160 discernment counselors who are specifically trained in helping couples have 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:37.160 that conversation and make that decision. There's a lot of 0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:41.480 fact finding that people can do within themselves, within their marriage. 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:43.800 I always tell people's self awareness is the root of 0:15:43.840 --> 0:15:46.640 your personal power. So when you know yourself, you know 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:49.440 your goals, your values, your feelings, your needs, you're able 0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:52.160 to take the action that's going to help you to 0:15:52.200 --> 0:15:54.360 get better, whether that means that you're staying and you're 0:15:54.400 --> 0:15:57.360 having tough conversations or you know that it's time to go. 0:15:57.840 --> 0:16:00.239 I also come in when people have made the decision 0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:02.840 and they don't know what kind of process they want, 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:05.440 So I talk to people about the different processes. What is, 0:16:05.560 --> 0:16:09.840 you know, mediation versus having separate attorneys versus sitting at 0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:12.000 the kitchen table and doing it yourself. What are the 0:16:12.000 --> 0:16:14.440 pros and cons of these kinds of things, What are 0:16:14.520 --> 0:16:17.520 their appetites for these different processes and things like that. 0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:19.880 And of course when they're in the thick of it 0:16:20.240 --> 0:16:24.080 co parenting, talking to other people helping their kids through this. 0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:27.800 Those are the big discussion items at that time, and 0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:31.920 then also afterwards, because you know, you never stop being divorced, 0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:36.280 and if you have children, you'll never stop being co parents. 0:16:36.480 --> 0:16:39.360 So there's issues that linger long after. The ink is. 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:42.160 Driving a degree very much so. And you know, look, 0:16:42.160 --> 0:16:45.120 if you can, if it's somewhat amicable and you can 0:16:45.160 --> 0:16:48.400 make it through mediation, that's wonderful. It's a very nice 0:16:48.400 --> 0:16:52.600 way to go through it. But things usually and things 0:16:52.640 --> 0:16:56.040 always end because it's not good. You know, no one 0:16:56.120 --> 0:16:58.680 says this marriage was too good. Let's get a divorce. 0:16:59.600 --> 0:17:04.040 We're too happy. So let's deal with toxicity and someone 0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:06.320 going through a really bad divorce. Because I know people 0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:09.200 listening right now are either in that or have been 0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:14.520 through that. That I'm sure is altogether different style of 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:16.879 coaching and different advice that you might have for people. 0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:22.359 Absolutely, if the situation is more toxic, it becomes all 0:17:22.440 --> 0:17:25.520 about the boundaries. And I do a lot of coaching 0:17:25.560 --> 0:17:28.560 with people where I try to help them understand that 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:32.720 ideally their boundaries would lead to changed behavior from the 0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:35.560 other person. But it's sort of like when you're up 0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:38.560 against a fire breathing dragon and you have a shield. 0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:42.119 The dragon's not going to stop breathing fire. That's just 0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:46.720 what they do. So having good boundaries and knowing that 0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:50.280 the boundaries are helping you even if they're not necessarily 0:17:50.320 --> 0:17:53.760 impacting the other person, that mindset is incredibly powerful. 0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:55.560 You've mentioned boundaries a couple of times. Can you give 0:17:55.600 --> 0:17:58.680 us kind of specific examples of what that means in 0:17:59.400 --> 0:17:59.919 our lives? 0:18:00.280 --> 0:18:03.480 Yeah, boundaries mean different things in different situations. But a 0:18:03.480 --> 0:18:05.960 lot of times when I'm talking about boundaries with xes, 0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:09.720 I'm talking to people about what mode of communication is 0:18:09.760 --> 0:18:12.800 most appropriated for them. Sometimes people can have a conversation 0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:15.359 in public. Sometimes they can talk on the phone. Sometimes 0:18:15.400 --> 0:18:17.600 they need to do everything in writing. Sometimes they need 0:18:17.600 --> 0:18:19.480 to use a co parenting app. Sometimes it needs to 0:18:19.480 --> 0:18:23.200 go through their lawyers. In conversations with people, it's important 0:18:23.240 --> 0:18:25.480 to have boundaries to know that when things go off 0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:28.720 the rails that you either need to bring it back 0:18:28.840 --> 0:18:32.840 on track and follow that agenda, because every conversation when 0:18:32.840 --> 0:18:35.160 you're dealing with an X, you need to have an agenda. 0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:38.400 What is the purpose of this conversation, because otherwise you're 0:18:38.400 --> 0:18:40.520 going to end up five years ago when somebody burned 0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:43.199 the turkey at Thanksgiving and that doesn't help anybody. So 0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:45.280 you've got to have good boundaries for that too, when 0:18:45.280 --> 0:18:48.080 you're in those moments, bringing things back to where they 0:18:48.119 --> 0:18:51.560 need to be, or even exiting those conversations if they 0:18:51.560 --> 0:18:52.680 become unproductive. 0:18:54.200 --> 0:18:57.240 So true, I was just thinking that before you started talking. 0:18:57.280 --> 0:19:00.280 The first thing I thought was communication, because we have 0:19:00.400 --> 0:19:04.800 so many methods through which we can communicate now, and 0:19:05.400 --> 0:19:07.640 I can't even imagine what it's like to go through 0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:10.879 a toxic breakup today because how hard must it be 0:19:10.960 --> 0:19:12.679 to not pick up the phone and fire off the 0:19:12.760 --> 0:19:15.399 texts and the calls and stalk them on Instagram and 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:16.040 all these things. 0:19:16.160 --> 0:19:18.160 Well, and it's also top you know, when you have kids. 0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:20.800 It's like, yeah, you know, if there's no kids involved, 0:19:21.200 --> 0:19:23.200 the break can be a little better because you could 0:19:23.240 --> 0:19:23.879 just not reply. 0:19:24.000 --> 0:19:26.399 But well it's cleaner, you can end. Yeah, at some point. 0:19:26.400 --> 0:19:28.879 But Tara, how long have you been doing the divorce 0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:29.440 coach thing? 0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:35.000 Oh goodness? I started. Actually I did my divorce coach 0:19:35.040 --> 0:19:38.160 training in twenty ten, okay, so about fourteen years. 0:19:38.720 --> 0:19:41.080 So I was curious and that that is actually around 0:19:41.080 --> 0:19:43.960 like when social media started. I was just curious, having 0:19:44.000 --> 0:19:46.320 been someone who's you know, divorced, yourself and now doing 0:19:46.320 --> 0:19:47.080 this a long time. 0:19:47.359 --> 0:19:50.240 How have you seen the rise of social media? 0:19:50.280 --> 0:19:52.760 Because we're really sort of talking as a society now 0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:55.639 about you know, we're a little over ten years into 0:19:55.760 --> 0:20:00.520 living with social media. How much it's affected divorces happening 0:20:00.760 --> 0:20:03.639 or the way divorces go down, just different trends, Like, 0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:07.560 have you noticed or seen changes in what kind of 0:20:07.560 --> 0:20:10.080 difference it makes. I'm almost curious if people are getting 0:20:10.119 --> 0:20:13.200 divorced more because social media exists, and maybe it makes 0:20:13.200 --> 0:20:15.639 it easier to cheat or for problems to happen. 0:20:15.640 --> 0:20:17.080