Speaker 1: This is the most dramatic podcast ever. And iHeartRadio podcast
Speaker 1: Chris Harrison Lauren z mcomedy from the home office in Austin, Texas,
Speaker 1: And today we're talking about divorce. Don't worry, it's not ours,
Speaker 1: but could divorce be positive? Could it be a positive experience?
Speaker 1: And I'll be honest, I did not know the phrase
Speaker 1: that I'm going to say to you right now, divorce coach.
Speaker 1: I had not heard of a divorce coach. Didn't know
Speaker 1: what it was. I was reading an article and saw
Speaker 1: the headlines, as many of us have. Former Bachelor lums
Speaker 1: Brian Abassolo and Rachel Lindsay are going through a divorce.
Speaker 1: Apparently it's pretty toxic, and Brian has urged us to
Speaker 1: use a divorce coach. He's using one. He's been very
Speaker 1: open about this, and I found it intriguing because Elsie, honestly,
Speaker 1: I didn't know when I came to you and you said.
Speaker 2: No, I had never heard of a divorce coach.
Speaker 3: So we just wanted to explore what this is, and,
Speaker 3: like we said, just kind of sought in passing headlines.
Speaker 3: But as two divorce as we were curious did we
Speaker 3: make a mistake?
Speaker 1: Should not have the product of divorce. Yeah, you and
Speaker 1: I have both been through them.
Speaker 2: So we have used a divorce coach.
Speaker 3: So we got in touch with Tara Eisenhardt and she
Speaker 3: sounds like one of the best of the best. She
Speaker 3: has been a divorce coach for well over a decade.
Speaker 3: She studied divorce coaching. She is known as a pioneer
Speaker 3: in the field. She is trained in mediation, Advanced mediation,
Speaker 3: Family mediation. She's completed training in conflict coaching, collaborative law,
Speaker 3: nonviolent communication, active parenting, and dissolving conflict from within, and
Speaker 3: in twenty nineteen achieved the status of CDs Certified Divorce
Speaker 3: Specialist through the National Association of Divorce Professionals. So we
Speaker 3: are so excited to welcome this expert in divorce coaching
Speaker 3: and to learn about what this is. We are going
Speaker 3: to get into how much it costs, what exactly a
Speaker 3: divorce coach does, and with one whether or not you
Speaker 3: need one.
Speaker 1: She is a six degree black belt in divorce.
Speaker 2: Please welcome Tara Eisenhard.
Speaker 1: And Tara joins us. Now, first of all, thank you
Speaker 1: for joining us. It's good to have you on the show.
Speaker 4: Thank you, happy to be here.
Speaker 1: As Lord and I were just talking about in the intro.
Speaker 1: Until the recent headlines, we hadn't heard of a divorce coach,
Speaker 1: which is ironic because my parents are divorced. Lauren and
Speaker 1: I have both been through a divorce, and I think, man,
Speaker 1: did we miss something? Like we should have found this
Speaker 1: on a good gues I feel like this might have
Speaker 1: been a daily and a lot of dollars short. But Tara,
Speaker 1: let's start off by what is a divorce coach and
Speaker 1: why do we need one?
Speaker 4: All right, so there are I want to start by
Speaker 4: saying there are different kinds of divorce coaches with different backgrounds,
Speaker 4: that we work differently. So the way that I work,
Speaker 4: I like to tell people I'm here for the human
Speaker 4: side of the process. I believe divorce is a human
Speaker 4: process with a legal document attached to it. And so
Speaker 4: while people are working on gaining legal document, they're dealing
Speaker 4: with changing relationships. They're dealing with the need for self
Speaker 4: care and setting boundaries and having difficult conversations. And That's
Speaker 4: what I'm there for. And I'm a coach, not a therapist.
Speaker 4: So that's also a really important distinction. Coaching is a
Speaker 4: directional process, whereas therapy goes deep I don't unpack emotional baggage.
Speaker 4: I don't make diagnoses or anything like that. I don't
Speaker 4: deal with childhood trauma. My work is very much focused
Speaker 4: on where are you right now? What are the challenges
Speaker 4: you're dealing with. How can we help you to move
Speaker 4: forward by taking some next steps or shifting mindset.
Speaker 1: Not as much looking backwards as much as let's move forward,
Speaker 1: and how can we do so in a healthy, positive
Speaker 1: way exactly. I find it interesting that you made this
Speaker 1: choice to this is your calling and became your passion,
Speaker 1: because obviously it's something you went through your parents and
Speaker 1: you got divorce. You've been broken up with and you've
Speaker 1: broken up with people. But it's funny that you decided, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm going to go into this, I'm going to study divorce.
Speaker 1: What was that light bulb moment where you're like that,
Speaker 1: I want to now figure this out.
Speaker 4: Yeah. So when my parents got divorced back in the
Speaker 4: previous millennium, it started off. I told you, they didn't
Speaker 4: give me all the information upfront. I didn't know how
Speaker 4: things were going to go. It was really scary. It
Speaker 4: was nerve wracking. But ultimately what I learned from that
Speaker 4: process is that it was a benefit to my family,
Speaker 4: and my parents' relationship improved as a result of their divorce,
Speaker 4: and so my life improved, My family got better, and
Speaker 4: I grew up from there on thinking that divorce was
Speaker 4: a solution to a problem. And then I got married,
Speaker 4: and when I got divorced, we realized that it was
Speaker 4: the solution to the problem that our marriage was and
Speaker 4: I was really happy about that, but nobody was happy
Speaker 4: for me. And that was the first time I realized
Speaker 4: how toxic, yeah, how toxic our culture is around divorce.
Speaker 4: Everybody was angry for me. They were sad for me.
Speaker 4: They were telling me that I need to, you know,
Speaker 4: take them to the cleaners, whatever. And I didn't feel
Speaker 4: that way. So I started looking why does divorce make
Speaker 4: people crazy? What is going on? Why do we look
Speaker 4: at it this way? And I read every book that
Speaker 4: I could find, and I listened to the experts that
Speaker 4: I could find, and eventually I started a blog because
Speaker 4: my friends and family got sick of listening to me
Speaker 4: talk about divorce all the time. Years after I got divorced,
Speaker 4: and then I just kind of it went from there.
Speaker 4: Once I joined Twitter, that was when I found a
Speaker 4: divorce coach, and I thought, oh my gosh, that's it.
Speaker 4: That's exactly what I want to.
Speaker 2: Do, Tara.
Speaker 3: My first instinct would it be a maybe top level
Speaker 3: service level, but would it be a faiish analogy to say,
Speaker 3: you're almost like a midwife helping someone through labor, Like
Speaker 3: you're not the doctor, but you're a midwife.
Speaker 4: Yes. Actually, another thing that I like to say is
Speaker 4: that divorce is a birth. So yes, absolutely midwife.
Speaker 2: Oh love that a birth, a rebirth.
Speaker 3: I was reading through your bi and one thing I
Speaker 3: absolutely loved that you said in your bio. And I'll
Speaker 3: just read a few quotes from here because they're all great,
Speaker 3: but you say of yourself, she has been cheated, she
Speaker 3: has been left, she has left, she has been broken,
Speaker 3: and put herself back together. And what I love here
Speaker 3: is that you say that you refuse to view divorce
Speaker 3: as a problem. You prefer instead to see it as
Speaker 3: a solution. And that's something that Chris and I say
Speaker 3: a lot, Like we recently did a Q and A
Speaker 3: on the podcast and someone asked us, how do you
Speaker 3: know when it's time to get divorced? And as we
Speaker 3: were answering that, like one of the things I said was.
Speaker 3: I think it's really hard because I think overall people
Speaker 3: view divorce as this failure, is this very negative thing,
Speaker 3: and I think, you know, for me, I thought, look,
Speaker 3: I had my marriage, I tried at it, I learned
Speaker 3: a lot from it. Mistakes were made, but ultimately it
Speaker 3: was better and more positive to move forward separately. And
Speaker 3: so do you find that that's an issue people like
Speaker 3: that you have to talk through people with or is
Speaker 3: that part of your job to help them reframe divorce.
Speaker 4: Yes, that's a really big one for people. As a culture,
Speaker 4: we tend to prize marriage and despise divorce, and so
Speaker 4: people going through divorce they think they're a bad person
Speaker 4: or a bad parent, they think that they're a bad partner,
Speaker 4: and none of that is true. I really believe that,
Speaker 4: you know, people change all the time. I'm not the
Speaker 4: same person I was six minutes ago, let alone six
Speaker 4: months ago, let alone six years ago. And relationships change too,
Speaker 4: And that's okay, it's normal, it's healthy. Sometimes a marriage
Speaker 4: runs its course and it's simply complete, and it's time
Speaker 4: to move on and find something new, starting a new
Speaker 4: chapter in a new way of relating.
Speaker 1: I said in the same conversation, It's how I felt
Speaker 1: in my divorce is when I could no longer affect change.
Speaker 1: I couldn't bring happiness to my spouse, I couldn't bring
Speaker 1: happiness to my own life. I couldn't affect that change.
Speaker 1: Neither could she. So we amicably decided to move on.
Speaker 1: And Laura and I are both proponents of a positive
Speaker 1: you know, look, it can't always be amicable. We wish
Speaker 1: it could. It can't, but you know, at least a
Speaker 1: positive divorce, and that's what I like that you put
Speaker 1: a positive spin on it. You are not the let's
Speaker 1: get them screw them, It is trying to it sounds
Speaker 1: like work within the parameters of what we got and
Speaker 1: make the best of it.
Speaker 3: What are some of the things that you typically find
Speaker 3: yourself advising people on, like overall the most common issues
Speaker 3: that you see and how you kind of help people
Speaker 3: reframe and better the situation that they're in as they're
Speaker 3: working through a divorce.
Speaker 4: Well, shame is a really big one, so we talked
Speaker 4: about that a little bit. I talk a lot about
Speaker 4: reframing this so that they can feel good about themselves,
Speaker 4: so that they can feel good about their relationship, and
Speaker 4: so that they can also help their children to feel
Speaker 4: good too. This is a really big one that comes
Speaker 4: up because a lot of times people don't necessarily think
Speaker 4: about They think about the kids, but they don't think
Speaker 4: about the kids in terms of children need to feel
Speaker 4: good about where they came from, and they need to
Speaker 4: know that their parents are good people, that they love them,
Speaker 4: that they support them. And so I talk about that
Speaker 4: as well, and how can we position that it's not
Speaker 4: just for you, but also for the whole family, the
Speaker 4: story of how this family is moving forward. And on
Speaker 4: that note, I also talk to people a lot about
Speaker 4: how to talk to their kids about the divorce, how
Speaker 4: to talk to other people about their divorce, and how
Speaker 4: to take care of themselves throughout that process. And when
Speaker 4: I talk about self care, I say that it's about
Speaker 4: three main things. Self care is about respecting yourself, protecting yourself,
Speaker 4: and investing in yourself. And so I dive into each
Speaker 4: of those components with people as they're navigating this process,
Speaker 4: whether that means that they need to eat better food,
Speaker 4: they need to set better boundaries, or they need to
Speaker 4: look at their goals for the future.
Speaker 1: Can we back up and kind of dive into the
Speaker 1: kid thing. I'm very interested in that because as I
Speaker 1: was going through my divorce, I had young kids, and
Speaker 1: I know that people listening right now are going through
Speaker 1: that similar situation. What are some keys that we can
Speaker 1: take way? What are some things you could help us
Speaker 1: with about communicating with our kids as we go through divorce.
Speaker 4: So it's really important that you consider the age and
Speaker 4: stage of children. Kids who are younger have a the
Speaker 4: You know, their cognitive function isn't there at adulthood yet,
Speaker 4: and so they tend to be very self centered view
Speaker 4: the world. According to them, these are where you want
Speaker 4: to focus on. It's not your fault. There's nothing that
Speaker 4: you did wrong, you couldn't have behaved better to keep
Speaker 4: your parents together. That kind of message is really important
Speaker 4: for younger children as they get older. They want to
Speaker 4: know how does this impact me? What's going to happen next?
Speaker 4: And really that's important at any stage. But it's not
Speaker 4: your fault. Isn't quite so important for teenagers as it
Speaker 4: is for younger kids, but everybody wants to know what
Speaker 4: does this mean, What does this mean for me? What
Speaker 4: does this mean for my family? What can I expect next?
Speaker 4: And when is it going to happen? And so when
Speaker 4: I coach people on talking to their children. I coach
Speaker 4: them around that as well. Don't tell them we're going
Speaker 4: to get divorced at some point in the future and
Speaker 4: we don't know. Kids get really anxious. They want to
Speaker 4: know what is happening. And that happened to me with
Speaker 4: my parents too. They had the big discussion. I overheard
Speaker 4: the fight. They said to me, yeah, we're probably going
Speaker 4: to get divorced. We don't know, but we'll let you know.
Speaker 4: And in the meantime, I came up with all kinds
Speaker 4: of scenarios in my head. I determined what their divorce
Speaker 4: needed to be. And when they told me what was happening,
Speaker 4: and it wasn't what I had anticipated, it was very upsetting.
Speaker 4: So it's really important to just be there for kids.
Speaker 4: Let them know that you know, we're still your parents,
Speaker 4: we're still a family, We're going to work through this together,
Speaker 4: and this is exactly what you can expect moving forward.
Speaker 4: I also tell people to have ongoing family meetings with
Speaker 4: their kids too.
Speaker 3: Kids need boundaries and facts and clarity versus well if
Speaker 3: and when and with yeah God, and like.
Speaker 1: You said, as soon as my kids realize they're okay, oh,
Speaker 1: I can still go to my own school. I'm still
Speaker 1: going to soccer practice, I'm still going to have a
Speaker 1: sleepover at Timmy's. Christmas still exists, Like okay, I'm okay,
Speaker 1: because their world still exists. So it was just reassuring
Speaker 1: them of those things was really helpful.
Speaker 2: Absolutely one thing.
Speaker 3: I because I didn't have kids, by the way, But
Speaker 3: as you're just saying that, honey about like their soccer
Speaker 3: practice and all that, is it important once when the
Speaker 3: divorce is happening, to keep things as similar as they
Speaker 3: were before, or is there do you advise on any
Speaker 3: level like, Okay, this is kind of your new life now,
Speaker 3: and here's what's maybe exciting about your new life.
Speaker 2: You tell me what's the right way to handle that?
Speaker 4: Well, a little bit of both. And I always tell
Speaker 4: people that you can listen to all of the experts.
Speaker 4: You can listen to the podcast, you can read all
Speaker 4: the books. Nobody knows your family better than you. So
Speaker 4: when I'm coaching parents, I always remind them of that
Speaker 4: to bring their own expertise into this conversation. They know
Speaker 4: their kids, they know what their kids' boundaries are, they
Speaker 4: know what their kids' anxieties are, and as they're navigating
Speaker 4: the space. It's very important for them to consider that
Speaker 4: in the ways that they're talking to their children. So
Speaker 4: some kids might be really excited about a new beginning
Speaker 4: and they want to move to a new house, and
Speaker 4: they want to decorate a new bedroom, and they want
Speaker 4: to go to a new school and meet new friends.
Speaker 4: And I can't imagine that, but I think there's some
Speaker 4: kids out there that might feel that way. And in
Speaker 4: that case, yeah, go ahead, hype it up and say, yeah,
Speaker 4: there's going to be all of these new changes and
Speaker 4: it's really exciting. And some kids will just turn it
Speaker 4: into a ball of anxiety about any of those things.
Speaker 4: And so for that case, it's really important to maintain routines,
Speaker 4: maintain structure, look at the things that are staying constant
Speaker 4: and steady, and still position those new changes as something
Speaker 4: that is an opportunity as opposed to something more negative.
Speaker 4: I like to, you know, encourage people to use words
Speaker 4: like curious instead of nervous, really curious to see how
Speaker 4: this is going to play out, what this is going
Speaker 4: to look like, and you know, just be interested and
Speaker 4: curious throughout the process.
Speaker 3: I saw someone say recently that the biggest they it
Speaker 3: was a doctor, and she was saying that she thinks
Speaker 3: the biggest barrier people have to happiness is an inability
Speaker 3: to change, like an inability to be flexible, because life
Speaker 3: will change and it will keep coming at you. So
Speaker 3: I love that. I want to get back a little
Speaker 3: bit to the divorce coach. What is it? And like
Speaker 3: Chris and I said, we were just as we saw
Speaker 3: this in some headlines recently. We were both so blown
Speaker 3: away that we didn't know divorce coaches existed.
Speaker 2: When do you.
Speaker 3: Typically come into the picture, Like do you find that
Speaker 3: you are advising people on whether to get divorced or not?
Speaker 3: Or are you typically called when the decision has already
Speaker 3: been made? How much do you advise on should you
Speaker 3: get divorced versus Okay, you're getting divorced, let me help
Speaker 3: you from here, all right?
Speaker 4: So I never tell people whether or not they should
Speaker 4: get divorced. That is not right. Once again, that is
Speaker 4: not my area of expertise. People know their marriage better
Speaker 4: than I ever could. But I do come into the
Speaker 4: process at all stages of the process, and typically when
Speaker 4: I'm working with people in the very beginning, something that
Speaker 4: I do recommend to them if they don't know, if
Speaker 4: they're on the fence, you know, should I stay or
Speaker 4: should I go? There's some resources out there. There are
Speaker 4: discernment counselors who are specifically trained in helping couples have
Speaker 4: that conversation and make that decision. There's a lot of
Speaker 4: fact finding that people can do within themselves, within their marriage.
Speaker 4: I always tell people's self awareness is the root of
Speaker 4: your personal power. So when you know yourself, you know
Speaker 4: your goals, your values, your feelings, your needs, you're able
Speaker 4: to take the action that's going to help you to
Speaker 4: get better, whether that means that you're staying and you're
Speaker 4: having tough conversations or you know that it's time to go.
Speaker 4: I also come in when people have made the decision
Speaker 4: and they don't know what kind of process they want,
Speaker 4: So I talk to people about the different processes. What is,
Speaker 4: you know, mediation versus having separate attorneys versus sitting at
Speaker 4: the kitchen table and doing it yourself. What are the
Speaker 4: pros and cons of these kinds of things, What are
Speaker 4: their appetites for these different processes and things like that.
Speaker 4: And of course when they're in the thick of it
Speaker 4: co parenting, talking to other people helping their kids through this.
Speaker 4: Those are the big discussion items at that time, and
Speaker 4: then also afterwards, because you know, you never stop being divorced,
Speaker 4: and if you have children, you'll never stop being co parents.
Speaker 4: So there's issues that linger long after. The ink is.
Speaker 1: Driving a degree very much so. And you know, look,
Speaker 1: if you can, if it's somewhat amicable and you can
Speaker 1: make it through mediation, that's wonderful. It's a very nice
Speaker 1: way to go through it. But things usually and things
Speaker 1: always end because it's not good. You know, no one
Speaker 1: says this marriage was too good. Let's get a divorce.
Speaker 1: We're too happy. So let's deal with toxicity and someone
Speaker 1: going through a really bad divorce. Because I know people
Speaker 1: listening right now are either in that or have been
Speaker 1: through that. That I'm sure is altogether different style of
Speaker 1: coaching and different advice that you might have for people.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, if the situation is more toxic, it becomes all
Speaker 4: about the boundaries. And I do a lot of coaching
Speaker 4: with people where I try to help them understand that
Speaker 4: ideally their boundaries would lead to changed behavior from the
Speaker 4: other person. But it's sort of like when you're up
Speaker 4: against a fire breathing dragon and you have a shield.
Speaker 4: The dragon's not going to stop breathing fire. That's just
Speaker 4: what they do. So having good boundaries and knowing that
Speaker 4: the boundaries are helping you even if they're not necessarily
Speaker 4: impacting the other person, that mindset is incredibly powerful.
Speaker 1: You've mentioned boundaries a couple of times. Can you give
Speaker 1: us kind of specific examples of what that means in
Speaker 1: our lives?
Speaker 4: Yeah, boundaries mean different things in different situations. But a
Speaker 4: lot of times when I'm talking about boundaries with xes,
Speaker 4: I'm talking to people about what mode of communication is
Speaker 4: most appropriated for them. Sometimes people can have a conversation
Speaker 4: in public. Sometimes they can talk on the phone. Sometimes
Speaker 4: they need to do everything in writing. Sometimes they need
Speaker 4: to use a co parenting app. Sometimes it needs to
Speaker 4: go through their lawyers. In conversations with people, it's important
Speaker 4: to have boundaries to know that when things go off
Speaker 4: the rails that you either need to bring it back
Speaker 4: on track and follow that agenda, because every conversation when
Speaker 4: you're dealing with an X, you need to have an agenda.
Speaker 4: What is the purpose of this conversation, because otherwise you're
Speaker 4: going to end up five years ago when somebody burned
Speaker 4: the turkey at Thanksgiving and that doesn't help anybody. So
Speaker 4: you've got to have good boundaries for that too, when
Speaker 4: you're in those moments, bringing things back to where they
Speaker 4: need to be, or even exiting those conversations if they
Speaker 4: become unproductive.
Speaker 2: So true, I was just thinking that before you started talking.
Speaker 3: The first thing I thought was communication, because we have
Speaker 3: so many methods through which we can communicate now, and
Speaker 3: I can't even imagine what it's like to go through
Speaker 3: a toxic breakup today because how hard must it be
Speaker 3: to not pick up the phone and fire off the
Speaker 3: texts and the calls and stalk them on Instagram and
Speaker 3: all these things.
Speaker 1: Well, and it's also top you know, when you have kids.
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, you know, if there's no kids involved,
Speaker 1: the break can be a little better because you could
Speaker 1: just not reply.
Speaker 3: But well it's cleaner, you can end. Yeah, at some point.
Speaker 3: But Tara, how long have you been doing the divorce
Speaker 3: coach thing?
Speaker 4: Oh goodness? I started. Actually I did my divorce coach
Speaker 4: training in twenty ten, okay, so about fourteen years.
Speaker 3: So I was curious and that that is actually around
Speaker 3: like when social media started. I was just curious, having
Speaker 3: been someone who's you know, divorced, yourself and now doing
Speaker 3: this a long time.
Speaker 2: How have you seen the rise of social media?
Speaker 3: Because we're really sort of talking as a society now
Speaker 3: about you know, we're a little over ten years into
Speaker 3: living with social media. How much it's affected divorces happening
Speaker 3: or the way divorces go down, just different trends, Like,
Speaker 3: have you noticed or seen changes in what kind of
Speaker 3: difference it makes. I'm almost curious if people are getting
Speaker 3: divorced more because social media exists, and maybe it makes
Speaker 3: it easier to cheat or for problems to happen.
Speaker 2: I don't know, what do you think? What are you seeing?
Speaker 4: Well, social media absolutely makes it easier for people to
Speaker 4: cheat and for problems to happen. That's just kind of
Speaker 4: a given. We're much more connected the way that we
Speaker 4: interact with people, whether that is you know, our old
Speaker 4: high school sweethearts that we're connecting with on social media,
Speaker 4: or classmates from around the world that we're now in
Speaker 4: an online classroom with. It's changed the way that we
Speaker 4: meet with people. It's changed the way that we talk
Speaker 4: to people and the way that we relate. So there's
Speaker 4: definitely a new complication that's thrown in with that. Another
Speaker 4: thing that I'm seeing with social media. On the good
Speaker 4: side is that it has given people access to new
Speaker 4: resources and new kinds of just people professionals that they
Speaker 4: might not have otherwise I thought of. So divorce coaching
Speaker 4: is a big one. Mediation is another one that I'm
Speaker 4: seeing more and more people know that they're looking for
Speaker 4: a mediator, and they're looking for a mediator because they
Speaker 4: know what it is, not that somebody said that it's
Speaker 4: a way to save money. So there's a lot of
Speaker 4: learning opportunity about divorce that is coming from social media. However,
Speaker 4: there's also a lot of really bad advice out there.
Speaker 4: And I always tell people you can find a lot
Speaker 4: of great support groups online, but you need to remember
Speaker 4: that those people are not your attorney and they do
Speaker 4: not know your situation.
Speaker 3: I'm so interested also in how much the divorce coach
Speaker 3: process you mentioned earlier. You know, they're not your attorney,
Speaker 3: but you kind of maybe work with people who are
Speaker 3: currently employing attorneys. I'm sure how much do you work,
Speaker 3: Like do you speak to the attorney at all? Do
Speaker 3: you just advise the person who's getting divorced? Do you
Speaker 3: talk through some of the like say they're really mad
Speaker 3: because the X ones you know, I don't know the
Speaker 3: house in North Carolina are something. How much do you
Speaker 3: weigh in on those fights that are happening and some
Speaker 3: of the arguments that are coming up through the legal process.
Speaker 4: So as a private coach, I do not get in
Speaker 4: any case. I do not touch the legal process with
Speaker 4: a ten foot poll. I don't always tell people I
Speaker 4: don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to
Speaker 4: those things, don't listen to me. So as far as
Speaker 4: what they're asking for, what they think that they want
Speaker 4: to fight for, what their strategy might be, I don't
Speaker 4: coach on that. What I do coach them on is
Speaker 4: themselves their self awareness again going back to that self
Speaker 4: awareness is the root of your personal power. So we
Speaker 4: look at things like if they're thinking that they want
Speaker 4: to get the house, then we look at things like, okay, well,
Speaker 4: what's your budget and are you planning to stay in
Speaker 4: this area? What are your goals for the future, what
Speaker 4: kind of resources do you have, what's your tolerance for
Speaker 4: cleaning a house that big and mowing that lawn and
Speaker 4: those kinds of things. So I'm helping them to look
Speaker 4: at those kinds of aspects of their process and themselves
Speaker 4: so that they can make the decisions that are the
Speaker 4: most aligned with them. Now, I do have a job
Speaker 4: actually with a family law firm, and that's pretty awesome
Speaker 4: because I'm the on staff client coach and I do
Speaker 4: get to talk to the attorneys, so I understand a
Speaker 4: little bit more about the legal process of my people
Speaker 4: that I'm coaching. However, I still don't get involved in
Speaker 4: that strategy.
Speaker 3: I found that after I got divorce. There's a little
Speaker 3: bit of judgment people have if they think you're starting
Speaker 3: to date again too soon, And I wondered if you've
Speaker 3: seen that, and also like, do you keep working with
Speaker 3: people once the divorce is final on how they move
Speaker 3: forward from there maybe dating again.
Speaker 4: I do work with them on moving forward after the
Speaker 4: divorce's final. I am not a dating coach again.
Speaker 2: Not my wheelhouse, Sarah, you are so good at setting boundaries.
Speaker 1: That actually is my wheel house. That one is my wheelhouse.
Speaker 4: It is. But there are people out there who are
Speaker 4: really great dating coaches who can help people set up
Speaker 4: their profile and get the best picture in all of
Speaker 4: them those things, and so part of my work with
Speaker 4: people after divorce might be to say, hey, go find
Speaker 4: one of these coaches if you're looking to get into
Speaker 4: the dating pool and be serious about it. As far
Speaker 4: as when people start to date after divorce, it really
Speaker 4: is just a matter of personal opinion and personal readiness.
Speaker 4: I always tell people that you want to make sure
Speaker 4: that you're healed first. There's a great phrase out there
Speaker 4: that floats around the internet, a great quote that says,
Speaker 4: you know, if you don't heal what hurt you, you're
Speaker 4: gonna bleed on people who didn't cut you. And that
Speaker 4: happens a lot when we see people who are just
Speaker 4: looking to fill the void that the divorce has left,
Speaker 4: and so they're out there just trying to be with
Speaker 4: somebody else. And another thing that I like to tell
Speaker 4: people is that the relationship you have with yourself is
Speaker 4: the one that is going to last for the rest
Speaker 4: of your life. So it is much more important that
Speaker 4: you invest in that relationship. Get comfortable with yourself, learn
Speaker 4: to live with yourself, learn to live alone with yourself health,
Speaker 4: and feel whole before you start to look for another person,
Speaker 4: because another person can't complete.
Speaker 1: You, especially when you know when people have gotten married
Speaker 1: at such a young age. I did that, and you
Speaker 1: don't even know who you are as an adult because
Speaker 1: you've never been alone and so you don't know if
Speaker 1: you're independent, if you are dependent, and so being comfortable
Speaker 1: with yourself and living and it's so much healthy for
Speaker 1: your kids too, Like to dive into that, make sure
Speaker 1: everybody's good, and then then you can move on feeling
Speaker 1: really good about who you are and where you are.
Speaker 2: It is.
Speaker 1: That's great advice. Like I remember feeling guilty Tara about
Speaker 1: like when I was, you know, thinking about dating of like, Okay,
Speaker 1: what if I'm seen out in public being you know,
Speaker 1: somewhat of a public figure. You know, what does that represent?
Speaker 1: How does that? And it was funny how how guilty
Speaker 1: I felt about moving on?
Speaker 4: Well what other people think of you as none of
Speaker 4: your business.
Speaker 1: Where were you when I needed you twelve years ago?
Speaker 3: I want to bring to you a quote, and I
Speaker 3: know that you said, I'm interested in what you think
Speaker 3: of this because I know you'd mentioned that you don't
Speaker 3: necessarily help people decide that they're going to get a
Speaker 3: divorce or you don't do that at all. But part
Speaker 3: of the reason that we wanted to talk to you
Speaker 3: was there's an alum from Chris's show from The Bachelor
Speaker 3: Bachelorette World who had said he used a divorce coach,
Speaker 3: and he said, quote, if you are thinking of separating,
Speaker 3: find a divorce coach so you don't make a decision
Speaker 3: by reaction but through clarity.
Speaker 2: What would you say to that?
Speaker 4: Yes, absolutely, and you don't necessarily need a divorce coach.
Speaker 4: Obviously there's a lot of us out there and we're
Speaker 4: happy to help. But the important thing is to have
Speaker 4: that clarity within yourself and that you're not making need
Speaker 4: your emotional reactions, because if you're doing that, then you're
Speaker 4: just you're not really responding to anything and thinking through.
Speaker 4: I have all good divorce principles thing where I say that,
Speaker 4: you know, geez for goals, the first O is for options,
Speaker 4: or I'm sorry, the first O is for observation without judgment.
Speaker 4: Then you need to look at your options and keep
Speaker 4: your dignity intact. And it's really important to look at
Speaker 4: those options to be able to think through things and say, Okay,
Speaker 4: which one of my options is going to get me
Speaker 4: closer to my goals? Not just that person hurt me.
Speaker 4: I want to hurt them back. Look how hard I
Speaker 4: can hit?
Speaker 1: And that really that surmises most divorces in our philosophy
Speaker 1: of like try not to get hit and try to
Speaker 1: hit them hard and make them pay for whatever you have,
Speaker 1: you know made up in your mind, and so having
Speaker 1: that mindset is huge, or having someone in your life
Speaker 1: that can help you get to that mindset. It's so important.
Speaker 2: What pains me a lot.
Speaker 3: And we have several couples we know who have gotten
Speaker 3: divorced or who are even in the process of getting divorced.
Speaker 3: It pains me to see. And I'm not saying divorce
Speaker 3: attorneys aren't important. You need them for many reasons, but
Speaker 3: a lot of money get spent in the process of
Speaker 3: getting divorced. Can a divorce coach help you in any
Speaker 3: on some level in terms of alleviating some of that?
Speaker 2: What do you think?
Speaker 4: Yes, absolutely so. A lot of times. One of the
Speaker 4: things that happens that drives legal fees is that people
Speaker 4: see divorce as a war, and they you know, they
Speaker 4: draw their their battle lines, they collect their allies, they
Speaker 4: hire their general to strategize their battle, and that's their attorney,
Speaker 4: and then they go to that person with everything and
Speaker 4: they say, here's what's happening now, what should I do?
Speaker 4: Where sometimes people are just lonely and they want to
Speaker 4: talk to their attorney and they know that this person
Speaker 4: is on my side. This person I know without a
Speaker 4: doubt this person is on my side because I'm paying
Speaker 4: and so I want to tell them everything, and I
Speaker 4: feel like we have a really good rapport. And so
Speaker 4: those kinds of things can happen where people are just
Speaker 4: telling their attorney everything. They're giving their attorney information that
Speaker 4: doesn't really have to do with the legal process. They're
Speaker 4: just complaining about things that the attorney can't do anything about.
Speaker 4: And so one of the things that I work with
Speaker 4: people on is choosing and using their team players wisely.
Speaker 4: To remember that your lawyer is not your therapist, Your
Speaker 4: best friend is not your attorney, That random person on
Speaker 4: the internet is not your financial advisor. Make sure that
Speaker 4: you're working with the right people who are understanding and
Speaker 4: aligned with your goals, and that you're using them to
Speaker 4: the best of their ability and that will make the
Speaker 4: best use of your money.
Speaker 1: That's huge.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, as I'm listening to you, I'm just thinking, gosh,
Speaker 3: divorce is such a big thing, right. It's even if
Speaker 3: we're not viewing it negatively, it's still monumental. It's one
Speaker 3: of the most defining experiences that people will potentially go
Speaker 3: through in their life, just like marriage. So it certainly
Speaker 3: makes sense to choose your team wisely and have the
Speaker 3: best people on your side. And on that note, I
Speaker 3: don't know how much you want to answer, but well, how.
Speaker 2: Much does a divorce coach cost?
Speaker 4: It depends. The answer is always it depends. So the
Speaker 4: way that I work, I have a regular hourly rate.
Speaker 4: I charge one hundred dollars an hour for people who
Speaker 4: just want to have a call and go over whatever
Speaker 4: the hot button issue is. Sometimes people want to talk
Speaker 4: to me once a week. Sometimes I talk to them
Speaker 4: once in the beginning, and then I hear from them
Speaker 4: three months later and they're like, hey, all this crap
Speaker 4: happened and I want to unpack it and you know,
Speaker 4: decide what to do. So I have a lot of
Speaker 4: people who just work with me. AM very good about
Speaker 4: just meeting people where they are whatever they need, let's
Speaker 4: just dive in, let's talk about the challenges, and let's
Speaker 4: find a way through it. I also have online courses
Speaker 4: that have different price points. There's different coaches out there
Speaker 4: that will do a lot of larger coaching packages. So
Speaker 4: they will do you know, a six month program for
Speaker 4: instance with people, and those can you know, cost a
Speaker 4: few thousand dollars. If people want to book, you know,
Speaker 4: a bunch of sessions with me, then we can negotiate
Speaker 4: a lower price for a bundle. But there's just different
Speaker 4: ways that people work and everybody's a little bit different.
Speaker 4: That goes right back to choose and use your team
Speaker 4: players wisely. So figure out how you want to work
Speaker 4: with somebody, figure out what they do as far as
Speaker 4: how they offer to help. Some divorce coaches do have
Speaker 4: a legal background, so they can help on the strategy side.
Speaker 4: All just depends.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I think one thing I've learned a what
Speaker 1: a divorce coach is, and that very useful when you're
Speaker 1: in the middle of that tempest and it feels like
Speaker 1: the waves are crashing on top of you. It is
Speaker 1: so much easier said than done to hey, think clearly,
Speaker 1: you know, and so to have somebody who can think
Speaker 1: clearly with you and to walk you through those steps
Speaker 1: because you know, you mentioned something very simple of it's
Speaker 1: so easy to get into a divorce and say, screen
Speaker 1: you I want the house, and it's nice to have
Speaker 1: somebody who's like do you want the house? Like, really
Speaker 1: do you want?
Speaker 2: When you said, do you think about do you want
Speaker 2: to clean a house? That big?
Speaker 3: I thought, Oh my gosh, these are no one thinks
Speaker 3: of the logistics.
Speaker 1: They just want the house to spre you. I want
Speaker 1: it because I don't want you to help.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like they think I want the house. They
Speaker 3: don't think, well, what about actually owning that house? And
Speaker 3: I think another big thing is just oftentimes when people
Speaker 3: are going through divorce, it's the first time you've ever
Speaker 3: done this right, and just like anything else, like with parenting,
Speaker 3: we take parenting classes and it makes sense that going
Speaker 3: on your first time going through something, it would really
Speaker 3: help to have an expert helping you along the way.
Speaker 1: Tara, thank you so much for joining us for shedding
Speaker 1: such a bright light on divorce coaches.
Speaker 3: Yes, and if people want to get in touch with you, Tara,
Speaker 3: how can they?
Speaker 2: What's the best way?
Speaker 4: The best way to get in touch with me is
Speaker 4: through my website. It's Tara eisenheart dot com. I'm also
Speaker 4: on LinkedIn, I'm on Facebook, I'm on x although I
Speaker 4: don't really post there too much, but I'm there, and
Speaker 4: I'm on Instagram and TikTok.
Speaker 1: Thank you all right, sounds good. I have a great day.
Speaker 4: Thank you you too. Bye.
Speaker 1: So helpful like that, that is, It's funny you and
Speaker 1: I both were, so I'll.
Speaker 3: Be honest, I think I was a little skeptical of
Speaker 3: it at first. Here's why sometimes I get a little skeptical.
Speaker 3: Like you know how like everybody knows someone who became
Speaker 3: a life coach.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 3: I know she's not a therapist, and she was clear
Speaker 3: about that, but it's a specific type of therapy.
Speaker 2: And I think that's why I like it. It's not
Speaker 2: just life coach.
Speaker 3: It's I'm getting you through this specific process that has
Speaker 3: a whole set of hurdles to overcome.
Speaker 1: And as somebody you know, because it divorce is nothing
Speaker 1: if not emotional, because it's dealing with your emotions, and
Speaker 1: so you are very emotional, very volatile. And that's on
Speaker 1: a you know, a positive good divorce, you know, much
Speaker 1: less a very toxic, bad one. So to have somebody
Speaker 1: that could just say stop, I'm in your corner, but
Speaker 1: let's talk about this and walk you through this, and
Speaker 1: or things are going badly to hey, you need to
Speaker 1: work on setting up these boundaries. And I'm going to
Speaker 1: help you and and to know that this person wants
Speaker 1: what's best for you at the end is a wonderful thing.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I you know, we started this by saying,
Speaker 1: you know, Brian Avisola is the one that introduced us
Speaker 1: to the term divorce coach, and I have to say, Brian,
Speaker 1: You're onto something. This is a very good idea.
Speaker 3: Tara is available at Tara Eisenhard dot com and her
Speaker 3: last name is E I S E N H A
Speaker 3: r D dot com.
Speaker 2: Thank you again to Tara and everybody. We will talk
Speaker 2: to you next time.
Speaker 1: Because divorce can be positive and we have a lot
Speaker 1: more to talk about. Thanks for listening. Follow us on
Speaker 1: Instagram at the most Dramatic pod ever and make sure
Speaker 1: to write us a review and leave us five stars.
Speaker 1: I'll talk to you next time.