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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch us

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Speaker 1: live weekdays at.

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Speaker 2: One Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app and

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Speaker 2: the Bloomberg Business app, or listen on demand wherever you

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Speaker 2: get your podcasts.

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Speaker 3: I'm Joe, Matthew and Washington, where the focus largely today

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Speaker 3: has been on crypto. After the SEC made its move

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Speaker 3: on Coinbase. You heard Charlie with the stock reaction of

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Speaker 3: course now accusing the company of running an illegal exchange,

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Speaker 3: one that allows users to trade tokens it considers unregistered securities.

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Speaker 3: This is getting to be a familiar refrain. SEC chair

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Speaker 3: Gary Gensler talked about it today with Bloomberg's David Weston.

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Speaker 4: It's largely built on a business model that's non compliant

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Speaker 4: with the securities laws. People are coe mingling all of

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Speaker 4: the customer funds there. It would be as if the

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Speaker 4: New York Stock Exchange is also operating a hedge fund

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Speaker 4: and trading against their customers.

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Speaker 3: We're joined now by the man behind the story here

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Speaker 3: at Bloomberg SEC reporter Austin Weinstein, joining US Center Washington

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Speaker 3: studios'reat to see.

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Speaker 1: You, sir.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for coming along on a very busy day for you.

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Speaker 3: Clearly here this is just the latest in a string.

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Speaker 3: But Gary Gensler is making the point here when he

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Speaker 3: compares that to the New York's Jockey Stock Exchange, it

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Speaker 3: hits home for people. And I wonder what this means.

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Speaker 3: Even as bitcoin increases in value, he runs the risk

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Speaker 3: of destroying a nascent industry here, does he not?

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Speaker 5: Well?

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Speaker 6: Gary Gensler, since he took over at the SEC, has

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Speaker 6: been regularly making the point that crypto firms, in his eyes,

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Speaker 6: are no different from your E trade or your other

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Speaker 6: online brokerage, and that the risks there are, in his view,

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Speaker 6: the same. Just the difference with E trade is that

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Speaker 6: that's a regulated entity. It's a regulated broker you. When

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Speaker 6: you put in your stock trade, you get a certain

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Speaker 6: amount of reports and respectuses saying here's your risk here,

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Speaker 6: here's your risk. Here, here's what you can make. Here's

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Speaker 6: that you can lose when you do that. With crypto exchanges,

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Speaker 6: you don't have those same regulated disclosures, And in his eyes,

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Speaker 6: that's just here risk for investors. And so when you're

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Speaker 6: balancing consumer protection as the SEC must with capital formation,

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Speaker 6: which the SEC also has to balance, he sees a

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Speaker 6: very high risk to investors. We're talking about entire people

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Speaker 6: losing their entire fortune sure versus capital formation, which, you know,

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Speaker 6: let's say he's a little bit more skeptical on crypto'st.

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Speaker 3: Clear, but he's also essentially saying that this is a

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Speaker 3: corrupt business model. Right, how does coinbase stay in business

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Speaker 3: if it loses a lawsuit.

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Speaker 6: Like this, Well, investors traded off the stock probably as

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Speaker 6: much as twenty percent today, so that shows their confidence there.

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Speaker 6: Coinbase has been pretty vehement in arguing that it doesn't

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Speaker 6: list securities. It's hired some of the best lawyers in

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Speaker 6: d C agrees, it's hired the former enforcement director of

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Speaker 6: the SEC to argue its case against the current SEC.

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Speaker 6: So Coinbase thinks that it will win here. It's going

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Speaker 6: to litigate, it said, and they think that there's just

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Speaker 6: ultimately a disagreement on policy and the law here and

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Speaker 6: that they're operating a legal enterprise.

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Speaker 3: Is just a day after Binance, though, in which when

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Speaker 3: you read that complaint even refers to the possibility of receivership. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: we're talking about these companies not existing any longer basically

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Speaker 3: as a potential outcome.

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Speaker 6: Well, yes, the Binance suit was very unique for that

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Speaker 6: in Binance, the SEC asks the court to appoint a

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Speaker 6: receiver and to freeze the assets of Binance. That's something

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Speaker 6: they take when they think there's a Ponzi.

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Speaker 3: Step that makes it the next FTX not yet happens.

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Speaker 6: If the court grants a receivership and freezes assets, that

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Speaker 6: could be a step in that direction. At the end

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Speaker 6: of the day, Binance is still a functioning crypto exchange.

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Speaker 6: When FTX sort of exploded, it's just a matter of

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Speaker 6: when the SEC asks for that motion from the court,

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Speaker 6: what the court says. That'll be a big step because

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Speaker 6: if the court freezes the assets of the world's largest

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Speaker 6: crypto exchange and points of receiver to manage.

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Speaker 3: Thanks doing that there right and see us when that happens.

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Speaker 3: Great to talk to you, Austin. Thank you so much.

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Speaker 3: Our lead reporter covering the SEC here at Bloomberg, I'm Joe,

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Speaker 3: Matthew and Washington. As we assembled our panel to start here,

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Speaker 3: we're going to cover some ground today with Jeanie Shanzano

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Speaker 3: and Rick Davis. It's kind of a pleasure. Rick, I'm

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Speaker 3: sure you can relate after talking about the debt ceiling

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Speaker 3: every day for about four months here, we're going to

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Speaker 3: actually try to cover some ground. So great to see you,

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Speaker 3: Jeanie Shanzo in New York. Rick is with me in

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Speaker 3: Washington and Rick, this is the most recent play in

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Speaker 3: the game of whack a Mole as some have described

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Speaker 3: it by Gary Gensler. Is this going to be death

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Speaker 3: by a thousand lawsuits for the crypto industry?

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Speaker 7: Well, I do think, you know, the suit that you

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Speaker 7: were just talking about, the Bonani suit, is actually going

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Speaker 7: to get a lot of people's attention because that'll be

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Speaker 7: the sort of the canary in the coal mine, and

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Speaker 7: it's impressive that they are going to take the position

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Speaker 7: that the SEC is wrong and we're going to fight

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Speaker 7: him on this and we're going to try and you know,

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Speaker 7: establish through a legal action a regulatory regime. And this

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Speaker 7: is not the first time that's happened. But frankly, the

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Speaker 7: SEC loses or wins more than they loses, so they

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Speaker 7: wouldn't take this kind of serious action, you know, with

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Speaker 7: talking about receiverships and freezing assets if they weren't feeling

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Speaker 7: very confident because they know what kind of impact that's

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Speaker 7: going to have, you know, in in the crypto business.

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Speaker 3: Genie. Gary Gensler's essentially telling people who hold money in

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Speaker 3: crypto to beware, this could could cause a flight. Actually,

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Speaker 3: it's amazing to me that bitcoin prices arising, Ether is

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Speaker 3: up today, and you wonder where the next leg of

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Speaker 3: this is going to come from. Here this has been,

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Speaker 3: you know, as I said to Rick, described as whack

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Speaker 3: a mole, maybe reverse enforcement. As we know, it costs

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Speaker 3: a couple hundred thousand dollars for a new crypto company

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Speaker 3: to get before the SEC and quote unquote register. So

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Speaker 3: what's the endgame?

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Speaker 8: Yeah, you know, the picture in my mind all day

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Speaker 8: has of Gary Gensler as like wild Bill Hitcock. He

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Speaker 8: grew up in sort of lawlessness and he's come out

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Speaker 8: and he's really gonna try to impart some kind of

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Speaker 8: security jariff. He is a sheriff in town and it

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Speaker 8: is the wild West. And he gave them how long

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Speaker 8: to comply? How long to register? And you know, to

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Speaker 8: Rick's point, they knew they weren't going to They knew

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Speaker 8: they weren't complying because they wanted to go to court

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Speaker 8: and make this case. They want to stress that they

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Speaker 8: are not This is not how they operate. They you know,

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Speaker 8: they don't have headquarters, they don't see borders, they don't

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Speaker 8: see regulation, they don't want to register, and when he

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Speaker 8: keeps pressing them, they're simply not going to do it,

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Speaker 8: and they're going to take it to court to try

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Speaker 8: to fight out this sort of battle. But it is

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Speaker 8: going to be a battle, and there are many, many

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Speaker 8: more to come. And I think the real question here

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Speaker 8: who is going to prevail in this shootout, if you will,

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Speaker 8: because it's gonna be long and it is going to

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Speaker 8: be brutal. If you watch how this thing has progressed, Yeah.

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Speaker 3: That's for sure. As I see headlines on Bloomberg now

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Speaker 3: from Armstrong saying that he actually tried to register and

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Speaker 3: wasn't able to, I guess you start wondering, Rick, if

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Speaker 3: there should be a different approach here from Gary ginsl

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Speaker 3: to maybe just hit the reset button. He obviously thinks

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Speaker 3: he's doing the right thing, But to get these to

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Speaker 3: give these companies a path to register and obey by

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Speaker 3: the rules is what the other side is seeing here.

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Speaker 3: He doesn't think he's playing fair.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, And and I think that's actually a criticism with

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Speaker 7: some merit. There have been a lot of calls for

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Speaker 7: the last two years for Ginzler to take a more

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Speaker 7: muscular approach to regulation and for Congress to get into

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Speaker 7: this act. I mean two years ago we were talking

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Speaker 7: on this program about what was Congress going to do

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Speaker 7: about regulating the crypto industry and yeah, and very little

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Speaker 7: has happened now since then. You know, you've lost two

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Speaker 7: trillion dollars in in in the market, you know, for

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Speaker 7: for coins, and so it's not like the marketplace hasn't

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Speaker 7: actually sent a message as to how risky they think

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Speaker 7: the business is. But but look, I mean, at the

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Speaker 7: end of the day, government has the last say, right,

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Speaker 7: I mean, like if they delay, delay, delay, and you

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Speaker 7: get caught in you know, the new position they're going

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Speaker 7: to take on regulation, or that they've now determined your

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Speaker 7: security when you didn't think you were. Uh, that's your

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Speaker 7: tough luck. Very few people win that fight when government

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Speaker 7: comes calling and says, okay, you now have to apply

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Speaker 7: the rules of the road to you in a more

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Speaker 7: competitive manner.

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Speaker 3: Does the White House need to be a little more

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Speaker 3: clear about this? I mean, I guess they could just

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Speaker 3: continue to defer to the sec genie. But as long

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Speaker 3: as these issues persist. Knowing that a lot of young

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Speaker 3: people and those who are so called underbanked rely on

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Speaker 3: Crypto as sort of the future of finance here, and

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Speaker 3: a Democrat could use votes from people like that. Is

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Speaker 3: it not up to the president to maybe set the agenda.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, you know, I think the White House is going

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Speaker 8: to continue to differ. I think they are of the

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Speaker 8: belief that is much they rely on young people to vote.

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Speaker 8: Young people do not vote in great numbers as they should,

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Speaker 8: and so you know, I don't think they're going to

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Speaker 8: you know, find their way into this. I think they're

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Speaker 8: going to defer to the SEC. And I think they're

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Speaker 8: going to defer to Congress. And the problem with Congress

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Speaker 8: is we've got Sam BigMan Fried's trial coming up. You know,

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Speaker 8: when he was very active and he was lobbying an

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Speaker 8: awful lot and the money was flowing from crypto into Congress.

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Speaker 8: I would think now that some of those members are

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Speaker 8: a little bit shy of taking a position at this

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Speaker 8: point or moving forward. And plus, we're in an election year,

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Speaker 8: so you're not going to see a lot of legislation

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Speaker 8: in this area. Even when there's widespread agreement across both parties,

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Speaker 8: something needs to be done. Agreeing to what I think

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Speaker 8: is going to be a long thing, and our history

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Speaker 8: of regulating on anything new is deplorable. So I think

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Speaker 8: the SEC is going to have its way here, and

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Speaker 8: I think that's the danger, and that's really the game

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Speaker 8: that these crypto companies are playing. They could try to

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Speaker 8: force the SEC to turn around and to open up

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Speaker 8: regulation all these things, but you know the reality is

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Speaker 8: it's going to be awfully hard to turn this ship

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Speaker 8: around once it goes down this pike. And they should

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Speaker 8: have known that, but they seemed willing to take on

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Speaker 8: the fight.

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Speaker 3: Well. Well, I don't know if Congress ever gets its

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Speaker 3: arms around crypto, but it's not the only financial matter

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Speaker 3: that it's dealing with. Right now. We're hearing a lot

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Speaker 3: more about funding for Ukraine following what we thought was

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Speaker 3: a deal that had been put in place for the

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Speaker 3: debt ceiling bill to be passed in the Senate. And

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Speaker 3: I will remind everybody today that this is the anniversary

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Speaker 3: of D Day. That's why the Secretary of State, Lloyd Austin,

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Speaker 3: is in Normandy, and of course he's talking about Ukraine.

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Speaker 9: On a recent trip to a US training post in

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Speaker 9: a free Germany, I met brave young men and women

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Speaker 9: from Ukraine who were learning how to fight for their

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Speaker 9: lives and for their country, and today I am more

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Speaker 9: determined than ever to stand by them for as long

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Speaker 9: as it takes.

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Speaker 3: And he's saying that, of course, against the backdrop of

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Speaker 3: this counter offensive that appears to be taking form in Ukraine.

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Speaker 3: We spent some time talking about this yesterday, with really

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Speaker 3: heavy fighting breaking out along all of the front lines

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Speaker 3: between Ukraine and Russia, and now apparently a bit of

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Speaker 3: concern about funding for the war going forward. Here, This

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Speaker 3: is sort of an interesting situation that we're in Rick.

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Speaker 3: After some pushback from Senator Lindsey Graham and other defense

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Speaker 3: hawks in the Senate, they thought they had a deal

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Speaker 3: to basically bust the spending caps on defense or steer

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Speaker 3: their way to a supplemental funding agreement. Reportedly, Speaker Kevin

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Speaker 3: McCarthy may not be on board with that idea. Knowing that,

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Speaker 3: I guess his caucus may not be on board with that.

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Speaker 3: What's going to happen when it comes time for appropriations

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Speaker 3: and a potential supplemental.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, I think this is going to be a real war,

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Speaker 7: and it's a war amongst Republicans, primarily. When the bill

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Speaker 7: passed the House, It was not going to make it

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Speaker 7: way through the Senate easily without a group of pro

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Speaker 7: defense hawks in both the Republican and the Democratic Senate

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Speaker 7: to say, hey, this two percent increase per year is

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Speaker 7: actually a cut because of inflation to the defense budget,

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Speaker 7: and we're not going to put up with it, and

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Speaker 7: we're not going to vote for this bill if that's

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Speaker 7: the case. So if you allow us to use a supplemental,

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Speaker 7: meaning they go outside the normal appropriation process and just

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Speaker 7: sort of put a package of spending together like Ukraine

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Speaker 7: has been done spending wise up until this point in time,

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Speaker 7: then they weren't going to support it. And so they

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Speaker 7: got a nod by both McConnell and Schumer, the leaders

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Speaker 7: of the Senate, to say absolutely, we'll give you that

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Speaker 7: supplemental vote yes on this debt limit bill. And so

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Speaker 7: that limit comes into our conversation every day, it seems.

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Speaker 7: But now all of a sudden, the rejection from the

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Speaker 7: speakers that hey, I never cut that deal. You know,

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Speaker 7: that's a Senate deal, that's not a House deal, and

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Speaker 7: I'm going to shut it down if it comes to

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Speaker 7: my house. And so now you have the Senate hawks,

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Speaker 7: both Democrats and Republicans who want to see more spending

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Speaker 7: it DD but also open the door for potentially a

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Speaker 7: July supplemental for the Ukraine now at war with Republican

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Speaker 7: leadership at the House.

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Speaker 3: Boy Genie, to Rick's point, this is a fight among

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Speaker 3: Republicans right now. Does the President sit back and watch

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Speaker 3: this happen or does he just write a request for

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Speaker 3: a supplemental.

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Speaker 8: I think he's going to write the request. I think

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Speaker 8: you know, one thing Joe Biden has been very strong on,

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Speaker 8: amongst many things, has been his support of Ukraine and

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Speaker 8: trying to get the money they need in there. So

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Speaker 8: I think he will go there. He will let Republicans

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Speaker 8: fight it out. I'm not sure what Lindsey Graham was thinking.

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Speaker 8: Both Mitch McConnell and Schumer supported this. It was the

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Speaker 8: Republicans in the House that McCarthy can't afford to lose.

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Speaker 8: I think one play Graham is going to use. He's

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Speaker 8: not only going to request or he's going to try

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Speaker 8: to work with the administration on They're going to couple

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Speaker 8: Israel and in confronting China in this. That's going to

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Speaker 8: be interesting because it makes it much much harder for

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Speaker 8: people like Kevin McCarthy and the far right to push

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Speaker 8: back against that. But the reality is, as we come

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Speaker 8: to an election year, Americans are very very concerned about spending,

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Speaker 8: and at eight eighty six billion defense cap that's a

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Speaker 8: lot of money when other things are going to be

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Speaker 8: cut and that's going to be a hard fight.

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Speaker 3: We've dropped what one hundred and ten billion into this

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Speaker 3: Ukraine funding effort so far. If I can reach for

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Speaker 3: a round number, I was just reading this morning. Have

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Speaker 3: we spent that wisely? Should we have spent that much

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Speaker 3: money already?

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Speaker 7: Well, you're actueing the hawk of hawks. I think we

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Speaker 7: should have doubled that. I'm not a spending by now. Look,

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Speaker 7: I mean, you want to end the war, right, how

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Speaker 7: do you end the war overwhelming force? Instead, we've had

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Speaker 7: the approach that we're going to send in things, you know,

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Speaker 7: equipment and capabilities on a drip by drip basis.

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Speaker 3: Four months after that, yeah.

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Speaker 7: So, I mean there's no wonder that we're still now

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Speaker 7: talking about a spring offensive as we enter summer, because

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Speaker 7: even President Zelinskia said, oh, these things are coming online

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Speaker 7: slower than it should and I can't prepare a initiative

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Speaker 7: an assault without the right equipment.

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Speaker 3: It's something we're thinking about and certainly the men and

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Speaker 3: women who are serving in uniform in Ukraine on this

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Speaker 3: day that we remember those who landed on the beaches

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Speaker 3: of Normandy. I'm Joe Matthew with our great panel, Rick

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Speaker 3: Davis and Genie Shanzano on the fastest show in politics,

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Speaker 3: Sound On. This is Bloomberg.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch us

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Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern.

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Speaker 2: On Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg

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Speaker 2: Business App.

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Speaker 10: Or listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 3: Questions about funding for Ukraine come with this news today

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Speaker 3: of the dam blast. Russia blew up a giant dam,

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Speaker 3: unleashing an environmental catastrophe. The floodwater is sweeping across the

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Speaker 3: south of the country, with Kiev's forces intensifying what appears

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Speaker 3: to be the counter offensive to oust Russian troops from

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Speaker 3: occupied territory. I'm Joe Matthew in Washington. Welcome to Bloomberg

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Speaker 3: Sound on a topic that we begin with our conversation,

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Speaker 3: Congresswoman Abigail Spanberger, as we told you, is joining us now.

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Speaker 3: Democrat from the Great State of Virginia and a former

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Speaker 3: CIA officer who serves on the Intelligence Committee. We'd like

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Speaker 3: to cover a bit of ground with you, Congress Someone,

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Speaker 3: it's great to have you back. Thanks for joining us

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Speaker 3: today on Bloomberg. How concern should we be about this

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Speaker 3: flood in Ukraine?

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Speaker 11: I think it's incredibly concerning, certainly from a humanitarian standpoint,

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Speaker 11: but also at a point in time when the Ukrainians

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Speaker 11: are looking towards their offensive plans to have the distraction

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Speaker 11: of the challenge of having to contend with the crisis

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Speaker 11: of this attack on the dam is substantial.

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Speaker 3: There's a lot of concern about what this might mean

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Speaker 3: for wheat from as we've now learned, one of the

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Speaker 3: world's great bread baskets. Here you serve on the Agriculture Committee,

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Speaker 3: and we're watching wheat prices rise as this water, by

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Speaker 3: the way, was used in part to irrigate the crop

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Speaker 3: for Ukraine. How difficult is it going to be now

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Speaker 3: that we've added this to the list of issues to

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Speaker 3: feed people in the next couple of months.

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Speaker 11: I serve on the House Agriculture Committee. I also serve

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Speaker 11: on the House Intelligence Committee, and so the overlay of

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Speaker 11: these two issues, particularly since the very beginning of the

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Speaker 11: Russian invasion and Ukraine has been substantial. Not only you

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Speaker 11: mentioned grain and wheat in particular wheat production out of Ukraine,

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Speaker 11: but also source ingredients for fertilizers that are used throughout

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Speaker 11: the United States. And so we continue to see challenges

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Speaker 11: facing the world from in the agriculture space. But the

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Speaker 11: notion that this attack on this Ukrainian dam is going

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Speaker 11: to further impact Ukrainian production causes pretty substantial concerns for

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Speaker 11: me as it relates to the production of grain and

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Speaker 11: the ability to get it down the economic extreme, particularly

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Speaker 11: into areas of Africa where in other parts throughout the

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Speaker 11: world where they rely on Ukraine and grain.

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Speaker 3: There are also implications here, potentially for the nuclear plant

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Speaker 3: in Zapparisha that's been occupied by Russians. It's been the

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Speaker 3: target of shelling. We've seen it come on and offline

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Speaker 3: on the electrical grid. Now there's an issue, of course,

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Speaker 3: dealing with the availability of water. If we're at risk

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Speaker 3: of a meltdown here. Congresswoman, well, the global community need

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Speaker 3: to actually commit boots on the ground. I know there

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Speaker 3: are some Americans already in Ukraine in an advisory role,

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Speaker 3: but how involved should we be in this well.

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Speaker 11: I think it's important to first note that we're not

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Speaker 11: necessarily in a place where there's concern imminent concern related

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Speaker 11: to a potential meltdown. But I would also note that

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Speaker 11: the kind of differences if we're talking about technological advisors,

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Speaker 11: if we're talking about you know, scientists and resources on

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Speaker 11: the ground to protect the infrastructure of that nuclear power

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Speaker 11: plan and protect protected from a potential meltdown, that is very,

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Speaker 11: very different from military boots on the ground fulfilling a military.

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Speaker 3: Role which is not going to happen. It sounds like,

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Speaker 3: how worried are you about funding for Ukraine. We're hearing

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Speaker 3: reports today that Speaker McCarthy is not interested in this

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Speaker 3: deal made in the Senate for supplemental funding as part

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Speaker 3: of the debt limit bill.

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Speaker 12: You know, we.

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Speaker 11: Got to a negotiated deal. Ultimately it passed the House

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Speaker 11: with broad bipartisan support. And what we know to be

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Speaker 11: true is that there continues to be broad bipartisan support

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Speaker 11: for our efforts to aid the Ukrainian people and aid

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Speaker 11: the Ukrainian armed forces. They are doing the extraordinary work

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Speaker 11: of fighting Russians on the ground. And I hear frankly

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Speaker 11: about this issue from veterans across my district in where

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Speaker 11: we're located. We have in Virginia a vibrant and incredible

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Speaker 11: veteran in community that can in the community continues to

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Speaker 11: advocate for support to the Ukrainian effort their cause for

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Speaker 11: you know, in fighting for their freedom, making sure that

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Speaker 11: they have the resources necessary to continue waging this fight

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Speaker 11: and ultimately to win the fight. And so, you know,

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Speaker 11: there's been ebbs and flows, and certainly we see some detractors.

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Speaker 11: In fact, we see some folks across the aisle who

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Speaker 11: are literally parroting Putin's talking points, which as a former

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Speaker 11: intelligence officer and current member of Congress, I find unbelievably distressing.

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Speaker 11: But the broad broad consensus is the fact that we

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Speaker 11: must continue to provide this support. And frankly, at the

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Speaker 11: moment right when Ukraine is about to launch its counter offensive,

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Speaker 11: that is not the point in time for us to

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Speaker 11: back off in our resolve for our support.

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Speaker 3: Well, I'm just curious what you hear. You have a

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Speaker 3: congressional district that stretches from northern Virginia considered you know,

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Speaker 3: purple blue, depending on which part of it you're in,

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Speaker 3: going down toward Richmond, and including a lot of rural

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Speaker 3: areas in Virginia, and I suspect that you hear a

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Speaker 3: lot of opposing opinions on this when it comes to

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Speaker 3: the role that we should be playing in funding Ukraine's

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Speaker 3: effort to fend off the Russian invasion. How do you

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Speaker 3: balance those two extremes.

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Speaker 11: I think remarkably I don't hear vastly different opinions, and

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Speaker 11: particularly when we're talking about the role of US global

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Speaker 11: leadership and the role of the United States as a

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Speaker 11: provider of military aid, lethal aid, communications aide, humanitarian aid,

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Speaker 11: no medical aid, the constraints that we have put on

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Speaker 11: our aid, and also the leadership that we as a

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Speaker 11: nation have shown in bringing together partner nations to provide

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Speaker 11: support to provide that same be it legal aid, be

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Speaker 11: it equipment to the Ukrainians. There's actually a lot of

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Speaker 11: pride and people across the political spectrum very very tipically

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Speaker 11: our supportive. I get a lot of questions about how

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Speaker 11: we're accounting for the dollars that and support that we're

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Speaker 11: providing Suscrain, and the answer to that is very straightforward.

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Speaker 11: I worked on an effort last year that's been signed

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Speaker 11: into law to ensure the oversight of the taxpayer dollars

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Speaker 11: that we are using in supportive Ukraine. But you know,

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Speaker 11: generally speaking across the board, folks who agree with me

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Speaker 11: or disagree with me, and everybody in between, there's usually

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Speaker 11: a kind of in principal support for the cause of

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Speaker 11: Ukrainian freedom, a recognition of the fact that if Russia

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Speaker 11: were able to defeat Ukraine without our support and then

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Speaker 11: continue marching towards Poland, that eventually that becomes a crisis

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Speaker 11: for us in an ara of engagement for our military

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Speaker 11: because of our NATO alliance, And so there's kind of

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Speaker 11: a I was the broad Broadly speaking, people want to

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Speaker 11: make sure we have oversight, that we have control of

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Speaker 11: what it is that we're bringing to the table, which

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Speaker 11: we do again thanks to that legislation that I worked

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Speaker 11: on last year. But it is few and far between

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Speaker 11: that I hear from people, even you know, in my district,

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Speaker 11: you know, a resounding desire to abandon the cause of

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Speaker 11: our support for Ukrainian partners.

437
00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:26,440
Speaker 3: We're talking with Congresswoman Abigail Spanenberger, the Democrat from Virginia,

438
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:28,480
Speaker 3: and there's another piece of legislation you're working on that

439
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:30,800
Speaker 3: brings us back to where we started this hour talking

440
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:34,920
Speaker 3: about this coin base lawsuit today sort of the hand

441
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:37,560
Speaker 3: ringing that's going on and the suing that's going on

442
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 3: over crypto. You have a bill to ban stock trading

443
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:43,879
Speaker 3: among members of Congress. Are you going to get a

444
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:46,959
Speaker 3: hearing for that bill? What's what's the future? Because we've

445
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:48,359
Speaker 3: been talking about it for a long time.

446
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,000
Speaker 11: We have been talking about it for a long time.

447
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:55,400
Speaker 11: I first introduced this legislation in twenty twenty with Chip Roy,

448
00:23:55,440 --> 00:24:03,480
Speaker 11: Republican from Texas, and we restrage that's true, that's true.

449
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:05,920
Speaker 11: We reintroduced it in the one hundred and seventeenth and

450
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:09,200
Speaker 11: the one hundred and eighteenth Congress. We have now I

451
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,919
Speaker 11: think made it objectively further in the process than we

452
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,840
Speaker 11: ever have. We now have more than we now have

453
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 11: sixty co sponsors. Chip and I both participated in a

454
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,719
Speaker 11: member hearing before the House Administration Committee in which we

455
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:27,000
Speaker 11: advocated for our bill to come forward for a full

456
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:32,040
Speaker 11: mark up and hearing. Other members also advocated for this legislation.

457
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:36,040
Speaker 11: And you know, so frequently we keep getting story after

458
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,959
Speaker 11: story right about members of Congress and their financial trades

459
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,679
Speaker 11: relevant to whatever the issue of the month is, and

460
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:48,040
Speaker 11: most recently, with the Silicon Valley Bank collapsed, there were,

461
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 11: you know, articles after articles of members of Congress, frankly

462
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:54,400
Speaker 11: on both sides of the aisle, who had made purchases

463
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 11: or made sales that seemed a little too close to

464
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,679
Speaker 11: comfort to the role that they might have, you know,

465
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 11: and the information that they might have by virtue of

466
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,680
Speaker 11: their position as a member of Congress, and our bills

467
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 11: pretty straightforward. We need the American people. The American people

468
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 11: deserve to trust their members of Congress. Perception is reality,

469
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 11: and if the perception is we, you know, go about

470
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:18,880
Speaker 11: our days making stock trades based on what we hear,

471
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 11: then we should change that. The reality we just ask,

472
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,120
Speaker 11: and we have easy access to you know, well hole

473
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:28,680
Speaker 11: people across the economic sectors. We just shouldn't be able

474
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:30,399
Speaker 11: to buy our sell individual stocks.

475
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:32,720
Speaker 3: Sure understood. I'm out of time, and I'm told you

476
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:34,480
Speaker 3: are as well. So let me just ask you quickly,

477
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 3: would that band include.

478
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:43,720
Speaker 11: Crypto No in its current configuration? It is individual publicly

479
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 11: traded stock.

480
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 3: Got it? Come back and see us again when we

481
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,240
Speaker 3: have a touch more time. We've missed these conversations. Congress

482
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:54,159
Speaker 3: Women Abigail Spaanberger of Virginia with us on sound On.

483
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 3: We'll reassemble the panel next.

484
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg sound On podcast Catch Us

485
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 1: Love I have weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com,

486
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business app.

487
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:08,200
Speaker 10: Or listen on demand wherever you get your podcast.

488
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 3: Interesting to hear from Congresswoman Abigail Spanberger on the idea

489
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 3: of trading in Congress coming to a stop a ban

490
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 3: on stock trading, and she says she's going to get

491
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 3: a hearing at some point soon. With sixty members of

492
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 3: Congress now behind this, we reassembled our panel. Rick Davis

493
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:30,879
Speaker 3: and Jeanie Shanzano, Bloomberg Politics contributors on the idea of

494
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,919
Speaker 3: banning Rick members of Congress at least in more strict

495
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:38,000
Speaker 3: form and enforcing it. There's actually the Stock Act has

496
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:39,960
Speaker 3: been up there for some time now, but this would

497
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 3: essentially put these assets in a blind trust. They wouldn't

498
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 3: be able to trade the way they do now. Is

499
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,199
Speaker 3: this ever going to see the light of day and

500
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 3: a hearing nevermind on the House floor?

501
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think we are entering a period of ethics

502
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:57,239
Speaker 7: as regulation. Ethics as an issue, certainly, the focus on

503
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 7: the Supreme Court and the ethical issues surrounding, especially Clarence Thomas,

504
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,479
Speaker 7: have given rise to a debate in Washington about what

505
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 7: is the appropriate conduct for our elected office holders. And

506
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 7: this is one of those issues that fits into that

507
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,959
Speaker 7: issue basket. And I do think there are more people

508
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 7: starting to think through, well, you know, how do we

509
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 7: avoid controversy in the future. The Senate and the House

510
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 7: have very strong reporting requirements for people's finances, and when

511
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 7: those things are violated, they tend to get cracked down.

512
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 7: On whether or not there's going to be appetite to

513
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 7: do what you're describing, which has put these If you

514
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:37,199
Speaker 7: want to trade stocks, you got to put in a

515
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 7: blind trust, and you can't you can't have a decision

516
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 7: making on it. I think is incredibly appropriate, and I

517
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,120
Speaker 7: think at some point it may not be this year

518
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 7: because of the political dynamic, but will come up in

519
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 7: hearings and potentially legislation that could pass. Certainly the House,

520
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:55,399
Speaker 7: whether or not you can get a bunch of senators

521
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:57,160
Speaker 7: degree to this, there's going to be a different story.

522
00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 3: Well, you know, a lot of the pushback on this idea.

523
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 3: Of course, the sum at least Genie was Nancy Pelosi

524
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,720
Speaker 3: she's not speaker anymore. Does Kevin McCarthy have more time

525
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 3: for this?

526
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:08,200
Speaker 8: I am not sure. I think one of the questions

527
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 8: about the bills and the way that they've been written

528
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 8: and what we've heard, is the sort of breadth of them.

529
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,800
Speaker 8: How much can you, for instance, control the spouse, the

530
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 8: family member, the child of a member of Congress from

531
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 8: buying and selling stocks. How much is that, you know,

532
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:28,639
Speaker 8: inhibit or prohibit or somehow limit their ability to exercise

533
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 8: their liberty. It's a really thorny issue. But I'll tell

534
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,360
Speaker 8: you what's driving this. You just look at the numbers.

535
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 8: Twenty twenty two US Congress outperformed the S and P

536
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 8: five hundred by eighteen percent on average. And so to

537
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 8: Rick's point, Americans look at these kind of numbers and

538
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 8: they say, hey, hey, wait a minute, if I'm in Congress,

539
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 8: I'm gonna outperform by eighteen percent. That has, you know,

540
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:53,479
Speaker 8: a smell, an ugly smell of unethical behavior on this

541
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 8: of you know, sort of being very active on information.

542
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 8: You're getting that we are not able to access an

543
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 8: public as the public. And so that's why this is gonna,

544
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 8: you know, be pushed. I do hope they hold hearings.

545
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 8: I'm just not sure how you write a bill in

546
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 8: which you deal with this in a way that is

547
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 8: narrowly tailored enough that it doesn't limit the liberties of people.

548
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 8: And that's a tough, tough sort of you know, line

549
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 8: to sort of you know, figure out.

550
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 12: Well.

551
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 3: I will see where this is going, obviously, and I

552
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 3: cannot imagine that it becomes an issue on the campaign trail.

553
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 3: But I have to ask you both about what is happening,

554
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 3: certainly in the Republican primary contest. Here is we add

555
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:36,800
Speaker 3: another Mike Pence made it an official yesterday through paperwork.

556
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 3: Chris Christy set for a six thirty pm Eastern Time

557
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:43,920
Speaker 3: announcement that he too is running for president, sending many

558
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 3: back to the debates in twenty sixteen in which he

559
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 3: was sent to dispatch Marco Rubio, that's.

560
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 5: What Washington, DC does, the drive by shot at the

561
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:55,719
Speaker 5: beginning with incorrect and incomplete information, and then the memorized

562
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 5: twenty five second speech that is exactly what his advice.

563
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 9: Is going to do.

564
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 3: You remember how effective this was as he picked away

565
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 3: at the center from Florida.

566
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 5: Marco, the fig is this when you're president of the

567
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 5: United States, when you're a governor of a state. The

568
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 5: memori thirty second speech where you talk about how great

569
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 5: America is at the end of it doesn't solve one

570
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 5: problem for one person.

571
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 3: A lot of people. Rick Davis said that was the

572
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 3: end of Marco Rubio's campaign that night. I don't know

573
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 3: if you would agree, But is he capable of doing

574
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 3: the same to the former president?

575
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 7: Well, I think the biggest hurdle he has, and it's

576
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 7: the same hurdle that form and Vice President Mike Pence has,

577
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 7: is they were both on the Trump team, right, I mean,

578
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 7: like you know, so it's not like that they've always

579
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 7: seen him as a charlatan. They were an integral part

580
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 7: of both the victory in twenty sixteen and the administration,

581
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 7: and so both came into their opposition against Donald Trump

582
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 7: because of January sixth, and so for four years they

583
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 7: remained silent, and now they want to be the tip

584
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 7: of the spear in an anti Trump campaign, and so.

585
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 3: It'll be to that vote, I presume. That's my point.

586
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 7: The two of them have the same baggage that they

587
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:10,440
Speaker 7: bring into this election, which is they aided and abetted

588
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 7: Donald Trump for four years.

589
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 3: So do they lack credibility then in your eyes, I

590
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 3: haven't heard you go there yet.

591
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 7: I think that's the test in places like Iowa, New

592
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 7: Hampshire is going to be will people look at them

593
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 7: fresh or are they going to just see them as Hey,

594
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 7: you're the ones who brought us Donald Trump and they

595
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 7: are trying to get those votes. They're not trying to

596
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 7: get Trump votes. They're trying to get the people who

597
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 7: oppose Trump and who are Republicans. And so I think

598
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 7: their credibility is in question and they're going to have

599
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 7: to work extra hard.

600
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 3: And Nikki Haley has the same issue.

601
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 7: They'll have to work extra hard to convince voters that

602
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 7: they're not going to be the next Donald Trump.

603
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 3: Maybe this is why Mike Pompeo chose not to run,

604
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 3: so he wouldn't be another statistic on the stage. Because

605
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 3: they all do share that genie. They were part of

606
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 3: the administration, and they all are pulling in the single digits.

607
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 3: How does Chris break out of that group?

608
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 8: Well, first, let's be honest, knocking down Marco Rubio. He's

609
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 8: a formidable guy. I respect him, but it's a bit

610
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 8: easier than Donald Trump historically, so you know, it's a

611
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 8: different ballgame with Trump. But the other reality about Chris

612
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 8: Christy that's confounding. If his goal is to you know,

613
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 8: take shots at Trump, he can certainly do that. But

614
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 8: this is somebody who put all his eggs in New

615
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 8: Hampshire in sixteen and came up sixth place. So yeah,

616
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 8: he knocked Marco Rubio down in a debate, But what's

617
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 8: the difference now? His negatives are very bad and does

618
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 8: he really think that more New Hampshire voters now than

619
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 8: ever before, are you know, hungering for Chris Christy. I'm

620
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 8: not so sure. So I don't know what the endgame

621
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 8: here is with him. I'm excited he's coming into the

622
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 8: race because I think it's going to be good fun.

623
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 8: I think he's got a lot of great, you know,

624
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 8: negative things to say about Trump. But beyond that, the

625
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 8: end game is really hard to see. And you know,

626
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 8: he's also the first establishment member of the Republican Party

627
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 8: to endorse Trump and then helped his transition team. So

628
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 8: there's an uphill battle for you right there.

629
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 3: Wow, well's there's a lot there. Rick. As we move forward, though,

630
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 3: how does Chris Christie seize on this? We only have

631
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 3: a minute left, You've made the point he's got some

632
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 3: really smart, experienced people running his pack. I suspect they

633
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 3: will be running his campaign. That doesn't sound like a

634
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 3: Kama Kazi to me.

635
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 7: Yeah, I don't think he's running a Kama Kazi campaign

636
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 7: at all. I think he's looking for an opportunity. The

637
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 7: opportunity has sort of left the center within the Republican Party.

638
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 7: The fact that Governor Sanunu withdrew as a candidate said

639
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 7: he wasn't going to run opens up an opportunity in

640
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 7: New Hampshire for that side. And with the President running

641
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 7: for reelection, there's no Democratic primary, and so independence can

642
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 7: vote in a Republican primary.

643
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 3: Sinan, who says he'll work against Trump in New Hampshire,

644
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 3: does he just go ahead and endorse Christie this week? Rick?

645
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 7: I don't think he'll endorse Christy, but I think that

646
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 7: Christy needs his TACIT support.

647
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, what do you think, Jennie endorsement from Sanunu?

648
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 4: Oh?

649
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 8: No, he's going to withhold that as long as possible

650
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 8: to have the you know, most of say he can have.

651
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 3: This is Bloomberg.

652
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch us

653
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 1: Live weekdays at one Eastern.

654
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 2: On Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg

655
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 2: Business app.

656
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:19,919
Speaker 10: Or listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts.

657
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:24,799
Speaker 3: You have an AM radio in your car. Oh you

658
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 3: are listening to an AM radio. Fend you in here.

659
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 3: That's the case for plenty of you as we take

660
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:33,360
Speaker 3: to the air every day and the satellites and the

661
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 3: Internet every day. But some car companies have been pulling

662
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 3: AM radios out of their vehicles BMW, Mazda, Tesla, and

663
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:44,439
Speaker 3: Volkswagon among them. Even Ford was thinking about this until

664
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 3: the pushback. They say AM radio interferes with the batteries

665
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:51,400
Speaker 3: in electric cars, which got this whole thing going. But

666
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 3: Congress is stepping in enter the AM for Every Vehicle Act,

667
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:59,840
Speaker 3: supported by nineteen Democrats and thirty Republicans, including Representative ca

668
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,439
Speaker 3: the mc morris Rogers of Washington, who spoke this morning

669
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 3: in a hearing on Capitol Hill. Listen to her take

670
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:05,839
Speaker 3: on this.

671
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:09,280
Speaker 13: The decision to remove AM radio from cars would affect

672
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 13: tens of millions of Americans. Some estimates suggest that more

673
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:16,840
Speaker 13: than forty five million Americans tune in to AM radio

674
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 13: each month. While people in some parts of the country

675
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 13: have been able to take advantage of alternative options in

676
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:26,800
Speaker 13: vehicles for accessing AM radio, like through a streaming service.

677
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 13: Many parts of the country still lack access to reliable

678
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 13: broadband services, meaning this option is unavailable. That includes people

679
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 13: in my community who are raising the alarm and sending

680
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:42,399
Speaker 13: the message that they like AM radio and so.

681
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:43,839
Speaker 3: They want them to keep it in the cars. Rick

682
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 3: Davis Genie Shanzano have both spent many, many hours on

683
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:51,799
Speaker 3: AM radio. I certainly have. Can you imagine Rick a

684
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 3: political campaign without AM radio.

685
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 7: Well, it would save us some money not to have

686
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 7: to buy AM radio, but oh, you know, we want

687
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 7: the local aspect of it. And you know it's bad

688
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 7: enough all the local newspapers are disappearing now they want

689
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:05,719
Speaker 7: to take away local radio for real.

690
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:07,799
Speaker 3: How many times have you argued your case on an

691
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:10,319
Speaker 3: AM radio station, Genie? Where would we be without them?

692
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,320
Speaker 8: That's right? And you know what, I love AM radio

693
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 8: and they can't speed us up like the kids do

694
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:18,359
Speaker 8: on the podcast. They can't choose their content. You know,

695
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,439
Speaker 8: there's something really romantic about that, and it would be missed.

696
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 8: So here here at mcrodgers and others who are pushing

697
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 8: for this, God.

698
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 3: Knows there it is Rick Davis and Jeanie Shanzo. I

699
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:29,840
Speaker 3: just knew you'd feel that way. Great panel, great conversation

700
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 3: as always, as we try to tune you in somewhere

701
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 3: out there, AM FM, satellite Internet that I mentioned. The podcast,

702
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 3: Our two of sound On starts right now.

703
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch us

704
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 1: live weekdays at.

705
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:52,400
Speaker 2: One Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and

706
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 2: the Bloomberg Business App.

707
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,440
Speaker 10: We're listening on demand wherever you get your podcasts.

708
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:00,440
Speaker 3: I'm Jill Matthew in Washington. Join this hour, hour two

709
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 3: of Sound On by Bloomberg's Kaylee Lyones, who was literally

710
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:07,319
Speaker 3: catching her breath after spending the morning running around Capitol Hill.

711
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 3: Did you win? You did catch Jamie Diamond? And I

712
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 3: know this because I saw it on TV myself. You know,

713
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 3: he cannot outrun you.

714
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 12: No.

715
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:16,440
Speaker 14: I was about to get in my Uber to come

716
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 14: back here to the studio and he was getting out

717
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:19,719
Speaker 14: of his car and I was like, well, here's my

718
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:22,480
Speaker 14: chance the car And you know, he actually talked to

719
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:24,360
Speaker 14: me today. I'm like a few weeks ago when he

720
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:26,239
Speaker 14: asked me if I had anything better to do. But

721
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:28,759
Speaker 14: I asked him about, you know, financial regulation. He said

722
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 14: he hopes the regulators are very thoughtful about what they do.

723
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 14: And then when he was asked about running for president,

724
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:36,239
Speaker 14: he said, oh, well, the JP Morgan spokesperson you know,

725
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 14: already said I have no intention And I said in

726
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:42,359
Speaker 14: twenty twenty four or ever, and he said, I never

727
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 14: say never to anything.

728
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:46,920
Speaker 3: Well, sure, my goodness, you know excellent. We're going to

729
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 3: hear some of that conversation a bit later on this hour.

730
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:52,759
Speaker 3: He wasn't talking crypto today because I know you were

731
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:55,879
Speaker 3: with a lot of lawmakers and this, this lawsuit from

732
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 3: the SEC is really something coming. The day after Binance,

733
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:02,920
Speaker 3: we spent some time with Austin Weinstein last hour, who

734
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 3: leads our SEC political reporting, and he wrote this on

735
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:08,359
Speaker 3: the terminal. It's a beautiful piece of writing. By the way,

736
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 3: as the SEC widens, it's sweeping crackdown on crypto, in

737
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:15,360
Speaker 3: this case, accusing coinbase of running in a legal exchange.

738
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:19,360
Speaker 3: Kaylee yesterday Binance referring to the possibility of receivership in

739
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 3: the lawsuit. This is new level activity here. Yeah.

740
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:25,280
Speaker 14: Of course, the Binance lawsuit was extensive. There were thirteen

741
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 14: different charges. I believe civil charges we should keep in mind,

742
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 14: but everything related from securities laws violation, to wash trading,

743
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:35,799
Speaker 14: to other allegations of co mingling of funds and the like.

744
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 14: With Coinbase, this really is about whether or not they

745
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:41,360
Speaker 14: were listing tokens that should have been registered as securities.

746
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 14: And of course the pushbak pushback that Coinbase has continually

747
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:48,160
Speaker 14: said is that they can't just come in and register,

748
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 14: that the process is broken or these aren't securities in

749
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:52,800
Speaker 14: the first place, and that really was the premise of

750
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 14: the hearing I was at on Capitol Hill today before, yeah,

751
00:38:57,120 --> 00:38:58,840
Speaker 14: I was there before I spoke with Jamie Diamond, but

752
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:02,240
Speaker 14: a House Agricultural committe hearing talking about market structure legislation,

753
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:05,720
Speaker 14: which is essentially trying to divvy up the jurisdiction between

754
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 14: the SEC when it comes to securities and then the

755
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:11,880
Speaker 14: CFTC when it comes to what they're calling digital commodities,

756
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 14: trying to set some rules of.

757
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 3: The road here fascinating. David Weston sat down with Gary

758
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 3: Gensler earlier today. Of course, the chair of the SEC,

759
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 3: the man who's been accused of playing a game of

760
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 3: whack a mole with the crypto industry, and he talked

761
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 3: about the case at hand here with coinbase, and.

762
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 4: This is actually a straightforwards securities case, but it's in

763
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:37,239
Speaker 4: the context of crypto. And let me just say, crypto tokens.

764
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:42,160
Speaker 4: The investing public needs that same disclosure, a full, fair

765
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 4: and truthful disclosure, we say. And in the crypto space,

766
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:50,719
Speaker 4: it's largely built on a business model that's non compliant

767
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:54,279
Speaker 4: with the securities laws. People are co mingling all of

768
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 4: the customer funds there. It would be as if the

769
00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 4: New York Stock Exchange is also operat a hedge fund

770
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 4: and trading against their customers, or add to it that

771
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:09,440
Speaker 4: they don't have proper controls to avoid manipulative trading on

772
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 4: the platform by their sister so here financed at his

773
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:19,880
Speaker 4: sister organization controlled by mister Zal called Sigma Chain. So absolutely,

774
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 4: it's straightforward protect the public through the securities law, build

775
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:28,719
Speaker 4: confidence and trust. But it's in the context of crypto, like.

776
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,799
Speaker 3: If the New York Stock Exchange was running its own

777
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 3: hedge fund to bet against its customers. Yeah, it does

778
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 3: a pretty good job bringing you in on that argument.

779
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 3: And David Weston, of course, was the man doing that interview.

780
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:44,880
Speaker 3: He's with us now from Bloomberg World Headquarters in New York. David,

781
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 3: congratulations on a great piece of news here coming out

782
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 3: of your interview. It was a fascinating Listen. This is

783
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 3: someone who's thinks he's very much on the right side

784
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 3: of history, but is getting a lot of blowback from

785
00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:58,840
Speaker 3: some folks who think he's not playing fair, including a

786
00:40:58,880 --> 00:40:59,880
Speaker 3: lot of members of Congress.

787
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:02,760
Speaker 15: If you talk to him, as I did, he doesn't

788
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:04,480
Speaker 15: think there's anything very fancy about.

789
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:04,840
Speaker 10: This at all.

790
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:08,000
Speaker 15: This is straight up securities, fraud and trading and securities

791
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 15: that are not registered and com mingling as you talked about,

792
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 15: and it frankly doesn't have much to do with crypto.

793
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:15,799
Speaker 15: Just happens to be in the crypto space. And by

794
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 15: the way, I think he would disagree with what Kayley

795
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:19,920
Speaker 15: said was going up on Capitol Hill today. I'm not

796
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 15: sure he thinks they need a lot of legislation. He

797
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:23,799
Speaker 15: thinks he got a legilation he needs. He just needs

798
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 15: people to comply with the laws.

799
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 14: His view, well, I was talking to one Congressman, Zach Nunn,

800
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:30,800
Speaker 14: who also sits on the House Financial Services Committee in

801
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:33,439
Speaker 14: addition to the Agriculture Committee, and he basically accused Gary

802
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:36,920
Speaker 14: Gunsler of trying to empire, build and move before Congress

803
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 14: can move when he knows Congress is trying to set

804
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:43,920
Speaker 14: legislative barriers here. I guess it raises a question, David,

805
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 14: of legally, if Congress decides that some of this is

806
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:49,880
Speaker 14: under CFTC jurisdiction in legislation, is Gary Gunsler then going

807
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,440
Speaker 14: to lose these cases because we know these lawsuits can

808
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:54,200
Speaker 14: draw out over a long period of time.

809
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 15: Well, it depends on what the legislation is and whether

810
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:58,239
Speaker 15: they get it done. I mean, I certainly empathize with

811
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 15: the congressman. It's been a pit that Gary Ginster's kept

812
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:03,719
Speaker 15: them from passing legislation. You know, he's up there in

813
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:05,840
Speaker 15: Capitol Hill blocking them every day of the week. They

814
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 15: could have done this a long time ago. They keep

815
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:10,320
Speaker 15: talking about it, right true, and so there's nothing stopping

816
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 15: them from passing legislation. As you know, there are aspects

817
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 15: of crypto that look a lot like a future transaction,

818
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 15: sort of regular by the CFTC, which by the way,

819
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 15: went after Binance itself in March, and there are aspects

820
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 15: that do look like a security sometimes depends on what

821
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 15: the token is. And I think that everyone would like

822
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:29,840
Speaker 15: some clear rules of the road. You know, Gary Ginster

823
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 15: is certainly a very assertive regular, no question about it.

824
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:35,480
Speaker 15: But as I say, if you look at the thirty

825
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:37,319
Speaker 15: three Act and the thirty four Act and apply them

826
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 15: to the things alleged to the complaint, I have no

827
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:40,839
Speaker 15: idea if they're true or not. But if you take

828
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 15: the allegations in our face, it's actually not that hard.

829
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 3: Well, I'll tell you We've got a one hundred and

830
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 3: one page lawsuit here who is filed today in federal

831
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:52,160
Speaker 3: court in New York and David this comes just on

832
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:55,680
Speaker 3: the heels of the Binance case. It seems like Binance

833
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:57,360
Speaker 3: is the one that's really going to resonate for this

834
00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:00,480
Speaker 3: industry potentially moving forward as a game changer. Is that

835
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:01,120
Speaker 3: how you see it?

836
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 15: Well, it was, although Gary Guessler corrected me on this.

837
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:06,360
Speaker 15: I said, it's the largest exchange in the world, and

838
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:08,319
Speaker 15: he said, well, no, we don't know whether it is.

839
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 15: If you believe what they say about how often they're trading. Yes,

840
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 15: it is, but one of the allegations in here is

841
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:16,960
Speaker 15: there are a lot of essentially phantom trades that they're

842
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 15: making up the volume of the trades. But it is

843
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:22,320
Speaker 15: a big leading exchange, and it's been.

844
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:23,040
Speaker 3: All over the world.

845
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:25,240
Speaker 15: It is over the world, and a lot of people

846
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:26,839
Speaker 15: pay attention to it. A lot of money has gone

847
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:28,520
Speaker 15: into it. But one of the things I thought was

848
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:30,960
Speaker 15: interesting also is Gary Ginster was very emphatic in saying,

849
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:34,279
Speaker 15: if you're a registered financial advisor this you got to

850
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:37,200
Speaker 15: watch out. Yeah, you got to watch out because you

851
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:39,960
Speaker 15: have not been complying with the custody regulation going back

852
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:42,319
Speaker 15: to two thousand and nine, because what was done on

853
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:45,759
Speaker 15: financial finance was not complying with that. So any financial

854
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:47,960
Speaker 15: advisors out there who were dealing with finance, at least

855
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:50,160
Speaker 15: I'd be checking my records pretty closely right now.

856
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:51,799
Speaker 3: Boy, I bet a lot of them are. I think

857
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:54,359
Speaker 3: that must have sent a chill through a lot of

858
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:57,080
Speaker 3: offices today in the financial world. Let's listen to part

859
00:43:57,080 --> 00:43:58,920
Speaker 3: of David's conversation with Gary Ginstler.

860
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:01,440
Speaker 4: Well, I'm not going to get into any one investigation

861
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 4: or case that we haven't yet brought, but I would

862
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:08,800
Speaker 4: say this to all of those investment advisors out there

863
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:13,600
Speaker 4: that may be interested in trading and crypto, your client funds,

864
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:19,319
Speaker 4: under an existing two thousand and nine rule, have to

865
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 4: be proper qualified custodians, and that's not what you have

866
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 4: on Binance. Make no mistake in fact, as we alleged

867
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 4: your funds in custody at Binance, you don't even know

868
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 4: really who's where it is. You know that mister Zeal

869
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:44,080
Speaker 4: ultimately is controlling it, but it may have actually moved

870
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:47,160
Speaker 4: it to a sister organization. There's another one that we

871
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:50,480
Speaker 4: allege merrit Peak, that billions of dollars of funds we're

872
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:50,880
Speaker 4: moving to.

873
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 15: So that rais is another question about the extent of

874
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 15: which what you're seeing with respect to Binance, mister Zao

875
00:44:57,320 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 15: may well apply to other companies doing so things.

876
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 3: Do you have similar.

877
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:04,600
Speaker 15: Customing problems with other people dealing with crypto? Obviously this

878
00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 15: is the largest exchange there is, but other similar entities.

879
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:11,880
Speaker 4: I would say this it may be the largest exchange

880
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:16,920
Speaker 4: because we alleged that they had corrupted their trading volumes

881
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:20,720
Speaker 4: by a lack of risk controls about their affiliate Sigma

882
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 4: Chain and wash trading. But moving on to your question,

883
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 4: there are challenges of custody throughout this space. And secondly,

884
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:35,600
Speaker 4: there's a business model that bundles and commingles functions that

885
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:41,319
Speaker 4: we don't see, nor would we allow elsewhere in finance,

886
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:47,400
Speaker 4: and so there's parallels here to the FTX of fraud

887
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:51,799
Speaker 4: and manipulation that we saw and we allege against Sam

888
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 4: bankmin Freed where he had sister organization Alameda, and the

889
00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:03,920
Speaker 4: special arrangements with that trading platform FTX. You see platform

890
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:09,759
Speaker 4: after platform that the entrepreneurs behind the platform also are

891
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:14,239
Speaker 4: trying to build wealth for themselves and their investors through

892
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:21,239
Speaker 4: sister organizations, hedge funds trading against the customers are even

893
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:25,759
Speaker 4: even as it relates to where there might not be

894
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:30,640
Speaker 4: a sister organization that they're dealing against their customers.

895
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:34,399
Speaker 3: SCC cheer Gary Gensler talking with Bloomberg's David Weston, who

896
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:37,279
Speaker 3: were spending some time with right now on sound On.

897
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:39,920
Speaker 3: I don't know how long these cases are going to take, David,

898
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 3: but do we have any reason to believe there won't

899
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:42,240
Speaker 3: be another tomorrow?

900
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:44,840
Speaker 15: No, none whatsoever. I mean, you heard he said he

901
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:47,200
Speaker 15: wasn't going to talk about other enforcement actions. But what

902
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:49,200
Speaker 15: he had to say, at least to my ear, And

903
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:51,080
Speaker 15: I'm not an expert in this, as you know, Joe

904
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:53,319
Speaker 15: and Kayley, I'm not an expert, but it sounds to

905
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:54,560
Speaker 15: me like a lot of what he has to say

906
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 15: could well apply well beyond binance, both the spect dealing

907
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:00,919
Speaker 15: with finance, but also to other extras and people dealing

908
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 15: in cryptocurrency, and he clearly feels that he is protecting

909
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:08,400
Speaker 15: consumers and investors. This is, by the way, today, as

910
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:11,040
Speaker 15: you pointed out, Joe, thanks to you, today is the

911
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:14,000
Speaker 15: eighty ninth anniversary the founding of the sec.

912
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 3: That's right, it's pretty incredible. He's pointing back to your

913
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:21,200
Speaker 3: point earlier. So those founding principles that he says cover

914
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:23,839
Speaker 3: this case, that this is not a crypto thing, that

915
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:27,160
Speaker 3: this is actually an old fashioned securities case. Of course,

916
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:30,080
Speaker 3: the investors who may not love the way he's feeling

917
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:32,880
Speaker 3: about this, or owners of coinbased down as much as

918
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:34,799
Speaker 3: twenty percent here to think that that was a three

919
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:38,080
Speaker 3: hundred dollars stock at one point, David is pretty incredible.

920
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:41,400
Speaker 3: But what's this going to be when you consider the

921
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:43,680
Speaker 3: warning that he just made. What does this mean for

922
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:47,600
Speaker 3: banks in their relationship with crypto? I mean, we thought

923
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:49,880
Speaker 3: we were on the verge of the first crypto ETF

924
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:51,440
Speaker 3: Now we could be in a place where the biggest

925
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:53,000
Speaker 3: banks in the country are turning and running.

926
00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:54,640
Speaker 15: Yeah, it doesn't sound like they're going to be approving

927
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:56,080
Speaker 15: an ETF for crypto right away.

928
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:57,960
Speaker 3: Doesn't talked about a lot.

929
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:00,439
Speaker 15: But for the banks, I mean, as you know, Joe

930
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:03,040
Speaker 15: and Kaylee, some of the banks were a little bit

931
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:04,839
Speaker 15: timid about this to begin with. You remember what Jamie

932
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:07,600
Speaker 15: Diamond had to say, for example. But Bitcoin and the

933
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:10,040
Speaker 15: banks were sort of there around the edges. They wanted

934
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:12,239
Speaker 15: to take care of their customers who wanted to participate

935
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:14,920
Speaker 15: in it. But at least the very biggest banks that

936
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:18,240
Speaker 15: I know about were not enthusiastic about crashing into crypto

937
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:19,839
Speaker 15: right away, and this is not going to make them

938
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:22,920
Speaker 15: any more encouraged with the prospect.

939
00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:26,080
Speaker 3: Last time we saw Gary Gansler on Capitol Hill, he

940
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:30,120
Speaker 3: was up there before the Financial Services Committee, and Patrick McHenry,

941
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:33,400
Speaker 3: the chair, did not take kindly to this approach. And

942
00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:35,919
Speaker 3: you wonder if the Republican majority in the House tries

943
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 3: to step in in some of these cases as the

944
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:43,040
Speaker 3: SEC makes this crackdown much larger than it was even

945
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:44,120
Speaker 3: at the beginning of this Congress.

946
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:46,440
Speaker 15: But you raised such a good point, Joe, and whatever

947
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:48,880
Speaker 15: happened to that, because Patrick McHenry has his own as

948
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:51,360
Speaker 15: you know, Bill, and he basically thought was working with

949
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:53,839
Speaker 15: Shared Brown or on the Senate side of the Democratics size.

950
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 15: I thought they had sort of a meeting of minds

951
00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:58,520
Speaker 15: more or less to get legislation. I simply don't know.

952
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:00,640
Speaker 15: Maybe Kaylee knows from retime with their cat Well, where

953
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:02,200
Speaker 15: is that legislation? I thought we would have had it

954
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:02,680
Speaker 15: by now.

955
00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:04,520
Speaker 3: You know. That's well. Part of the problem is the

956
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:07,160
Speaker 3: ranking member on the committee, Maxine Waters, said, you know what,

957
00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:09,640
Speaker 3: I don't like this agreement. We're going back to start

958
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:12,239
Speaker 3: from scratch here, and so there, you know, there's a

959
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:14,319
Speaker 3: question about whether this needs to be written from the

960
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:16,759
Speaker 3: very beginning and what exactly how you know, what what

961
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:18,920
Speaker 3: kind of teeth is it going to have because Democrats

962
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:21,439
Speaker 3: obviously want to see a lot more. This does seem,

963
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:24,520
Speaker 3: with some exceptions, to be falling along party lines and

964
00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:27,279
Speaker 3: on that's the case, David, the story gets away from

965
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:27,759
Speaker 3: you right well.

966
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:29,520
Speaker 15: And the really good note news that both of you

967
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 15: know is there are no lobbyists, none whatsoever, dealing with

968
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:35,280
Speaker 15: this whatsoever. There are nobody in for the crypto lobby

969
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:37,640
Speaker 15: that's participating. It's one of the things Gary Ginster talked

970
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:40,719
Speaker 15: about actually was you got lobbyists in right now lobbying

971
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:43,120
Speaker 15: against certain regulation at the same time this is going on.

972
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:46,759
Speaker 3: The legal fees are stunning here. We spoke with Bloomberg

973
00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:50,960
Speaker 3: Intelligences Nathan Dean about this. That to if you actually

974
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:53,719
Speaker 3: do what Gary Gensler is asking and quote unquote come

975
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:57,040
Speaker 3: in and register that the starting price is about two

976
00:49:57,120 --> 00:49:59,919
Speaker 3: hundred and fifty thousand dollars in legal fees and legit

977
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:03,319
Speaker 3: sticks involved in getting that meeting, getting your representation. That's

978
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:05,600
Speaker 3: not a very good way to start when you're a

979
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:07,880
Speaker 3: crypto startup, is it. No, it's not.

980
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:09,759
Speaker 15: On the other hand, I have to say, just looking

981
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:12,080
Speaker 15: at some of the numbers, the nominal numbers are banded

982
00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 15: around the press, a lot of these people were talking

983
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:17,360
Speaker 15: about hundreds millions and billions of dollars involved here that

984
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:19,200
Speaker 15: they seem to be able to build up quite quickly.

985
00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:21,719
Speaker 15: So I don't feel quite as sympathetic about two hundred

986
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:24,360
Speaker 15: two thousand dollars for so this is very sam bank free.

987
00:50:24,239 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 3: You know, fair enough, that's true. You just wonder about

988
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:29,080
Speaker 3: this nascent industry and some of the smaller players who

989
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:30,840
Speaker 3: may actually be trying to do the right thing but

990
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:31,919
Speaker 3: can't get in the front door.

991
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:34,239
Speaker 15: No, absolutely, right, but although I do come back to

992
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:36,719
Speaker 15: the basic point, Joe that we've talked about before, which

993
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:38,799
Speaker 15: is what is the use case? And you've got some

994
00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:40,920
Speaker 15: members of Congress who are asking that question, why do

995
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:42,840
Speaker 15: we need this industry? There may be good reasons, but

996
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:43,799
Speaker 15: we should figure those out.

997
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:45,880
Speaker 3: Somebody needs a real answer to that. David, what a

998
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:49,000
Speaker 3: great conversation. I love spending time with our pal David Weston,

999
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:51,880
Speaker 3: of course the hosts of Wall Street Week here on Bloomberg,

1000
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:54,279
Speaker 3: and a great conversation with Gary Ganster. Thank you David

1001
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:56,840
Speaker 3: for bringing it to us. I'm Joe Matthew. This is

1002
00:50:56,880 --> 00:51:03,200
Speaker 3: Bloomberg listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch us

1003
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:05,240
Speaker 3: live weekdays at one Eastern.

1004
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:08,160
Speaker 2: On Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg

1005
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:12,360
Speaker 2: Business app, or listen on demand wherever you get your podcast.

1006
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:15,879
Speaker 3: So let me just get things up to date here.

1007
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:21,759
Speaker 3: By the way, Chris Snuknu is out, Mike Pence is in,

1008
00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:28,200
Speaker 3: Chris Christi is in, but not until tonight. Technically he's

1009
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:30,560
Speaker 3: announcing it six point thirty in Manchester. I guess he's

1010
00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:36,120
Speaker 3: technically technically when he pulls papers, who's next? I guess?

1011
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:39,400
Speaker 3: Is the question is this the field, Well.

1012
00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:41,200
Speaker 14: It's pretty crowded as it is. This is what the

1013
00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:43,879
Speaker 14: little crowded eleven by the end of this week.

1014
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:47,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, we had eight walking around Iowa last weekend, including

1015
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:49,759
Speaker 3: the afore mentioned Mike Pence. He was basically as good

1016
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:53,200
Speaker 3: as running. He even bought a leather vest to show

1017
00:51:53,239 --> 00:51:56,640
Speaker 3: for it. Now they're using the term kamakazi candidate with

1018
00:51:56,719 --> 00:52:00,600
Speaker 3: Chris Christi, the idea being that they're bringing him into

1019
00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:02,600
Speaker 3: the race just to knock out Donald Trump and then

1020
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:04,520
Speaker 3: he's gone and goes back to New Jersey and hangs

1021
00:52:04,520 --> 00:52:06,959
Speaker 3: out at the beach. But he's got some pretty smart

1022
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:09,720
Speaker 3: people running the pack here, some smart people, very experienced

1023
00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 3: people behind his campaign. And as we discussed last hour

1024
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:16,000
Speaker 3: with Rick Davis, a lot of folks see him in

1025
00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:18,080
Speaker 3: this to win it. Actually, even if they're calling it

1026
00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:20,800
Speaker 3: a kamakazi campaign.

1027
00:52:21,719 --> 00:52:25,040
Speaker 14: Well, I guess it's a question of a what can

1028
00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:27,960
Speaker 14: he do to the wider field in terms of, you know,

1029
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:31,160
Speaker 14: narrowing the lead that President Trump immediately has, which would

1030
00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:34,560
Speaker 14: then currently has, which would then open up the door

1031
00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:36,600
Speaker 14: to him potentially if he can really eat into that

1032
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:40,239
Speaker 14: lead to actually have a lane here to potentially do

1033
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:42,719
Speaker 14: the thing and be the nominee. It's just a lot

1034
00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:45,320
Speaker 14: of questions when you're looking at polling now and seeing

1035
00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:48,319
Speaker 14: that it's you know, Trump way out front, DeSantis what

1036
00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:52,759
Speaker 14: thirty ish points behind, and everybody else is in single digital.

1037
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:55,760
Speaker 3: Digits, including Chris Christy. Everyone's pointing back to twenty sixteen.

1038
00:52:56,160 --> 00:52:58,239
Speaker 3: We brought back, We brought everyone back to the big

1039
00:52:58,239 --> 00:53:00,960
Speaker 3: debate in which he was dispatched or sent. I should

1040
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:03,960
Speaker 3: say to dispatch Senator Marco Rubio, remember this.

1041
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:05,480
Speaker 5: One you're president of the United States, when you're a

1042
00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:08,560
Speaker 5: governor of a state, the memorized thirty second speech where

1043
00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:10,359
Speaker 5: you talk about how great America is at the end

1044
00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:12,880
Speaker 5: of it doesn't solve one problem for one person.

1045
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:15,319
Speaker 3: So they're swinting their eyes and imagining him doing that

1046
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:18,040
Speaker 3: to Donald Trump, who probably won't even be on the

1047
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:19,719
Speaker 3: first debate stage, so he's going to have to hang

1048
00:53:19,719 --> 00:53:22,080
Speaker 3: in there for a minute. I wonder how Jessica Taylor

1049
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:24,080
Speaker 3: feels about that. We haven't talked to Jessica in a

1050
00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:28,520
Speaker 3: while with the Cook Political Report. Jessica Taylor, welcome back

1051
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:29,480
Speaker 3: to Bloomberg Radio.

1052
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:35,200
Speaker 12: How important I will not you forgot one very important

1053
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:38,480
Speaker 12: other candidate announcement yes week. Oh God, North Dakota governor

1054
00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:40,400
Speaker 12: yes announcing tomorrow.

1055
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:42,120
Speaker 3: I thought I was the only guy who talked about

1056
00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:44,480
Speaker 3: Governor Bergham yesterday, and I really I should not be

1057
00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:46,960
Speaker 3: leaving him off the list. You're right, Jessica Taylor. Is

1058
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:48,560
Speaker 3: he the great disruptor?

1059
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:52,760
Speaker 12: I highly doubt it. I Okay, a lot of people

1060
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:55,000
Speaker 12: in North Dakota may not even know who he is.

1061
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:56,640
Speaker 3: That's a bit of an issue.

1062
00:53:57,160 --> 00:53:59,759
Speaker 12: Yeah, So he definitely does not have the same name.

1063
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:02,760
Speaker 12: I'd the other people that have run before, like Chris Christy,

1064
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:06,560
Speaker 12: someone like Mike Pence has so I have a hard

1065
00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:08,719
Speaker 12: time seeing his path. But like Frankly, I have a

1066
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:11,080
Speaker 12: hard time seeing a path for anyone other than Trump

1067
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:11,840
Speaker 12: at this juncture.

1068
00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:15,840
Speaker 14: So that's a no to Chris Christie actually doing anything

1069
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:17,319
Speaker 14: other than kamikazeing here.

1070
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:20,560
Speaker 12: Yeah, I mean, I was trying to think of NBC

1071
00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:23,200
Speaker 12: had a headline this morning, you know, remembering the highs

1072
00:54:23,239 --> 00:54:26,560
Speaker 12: and lows of Chris Christie's twenty sixteen campaign. Bit And

1073
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:29,839
Speaker 12: the only thing that I even remember from that was

1074
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:32,640
Speaker 12: that debate moment that you just played like that was

1075
00:54:32,719 --> 00:54:36,399
Speaker 12: the high point and it didn't even it knocked Rubio out,

1076
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:39,560
Speaker 12: but it didn't help Christie himself because he went on

1077
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:42,319
Speaker 12: to handily lose New Hampshire and then drop out and

1078
00:54:42,360 --> 00:54:46,719
Speaker 12: then a couple of months later endorse Donald Trump and

1079
00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:50,440
Speaker 12: which he's clearly soured on that. And so it's just,

1080
00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:52,759
Speaker 12: you know, Chris Christy was once going to be this,

1081
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:55,160
Speaker 12: you know, great Republican hope. He was seen as a

1082
00:54:55,239 --> 00:54:58,560
Speaker 12: clear future presidential candidate, and you know, some people wishing

1083
00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:02,320
Speaker 12: he'd run even before twenty six and twenty twelve or something.

1084
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:06,319
Speaker 12: You know, but I think that it speaks to sort

1085
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:08,640
Speaker 12: of I think missing your moment. He's one of those

1086
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:10,400
Speaker 12: candidates that I may have done that.

1087
00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:14,080
Speaker 3: Wow, So what was it? The Obama hug sitting on

1088
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:17,239
Speaker 3: the beach when it was closed Bridge Gate? All of

1089
00:55:17,239 --> 00:55:19,000
Speaker 3: the above, I think.

1090
00:55:18,840 --> 00:55:21,480
Speaker 12: All of the above. But you know, he's someone that

1091
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:25,600
Speaker 12: I don't know. He just struggled to articulate his message,

1092
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:28,520
Speaker 12: and as every other candidate did in twenty sixteen. And

1093
00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:30,279
Speaker 12: I'm not convinced that they have come up with a

1094
00:55:30,320 --> 00:55:33,400
Speaker 12: strategy because all of this feels like a twenty sixteen

1095
00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:38,080
Speaker 12: reducs is that is that these challengers they still don't

1096
00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:40,600
Speaker 12: seem to know how to handle Trump, and as you mentioned,

1097
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:43,040
Speaker 12: I highly doubt he'll even participate in the first debate,

1098
00:55:43,160 --> 00:55:46,480
Speaker 12: so it's going to feel like an undercard debate. And

1099
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:48,319
Speaker 12: you know, I feel like they're going to beat up

1100
00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:52,879
Speaker 12: on DeSantis probably the most. And I mean, we'll just see,

1101
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:55,160
Speaker 12: but for right now, there's just such a huge gap.

1102
00:55:55,239 --> 00:55:58,680
Speaker 12: I mean, going up against a former president is not easy,

1103
00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:01,719
Speaker 12: especially with some one that has proven to be teflon

1104
00:56:01,880 --> 00:56:05,040
Speaker 12: among GOP voters like Trump has well.

1105
00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:08,279
Speaker 14: So it raises the question of everyone who's in this

1106
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:10,880
Speaker 14: race and those who aren't in this race. We were

1107
00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:14,399
Speaker 14: talking about Chris Nunu and his decision not to run,

1108
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:17,759
Speaker 14: and in his Washington Post op ed yesterday, he literally said,

1109
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:20,640
Speaker 14: and I'm paraphrasing here, but basically that he can do

1110
00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:23,120
Speaker 14: a better job of fighting against Trump from the outside

1111
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:26,799
Speaker 14: than in the race. Do we anticipate, Jessica, that as

1112
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:29,960
Speaker 14: time goes on, more candidates will also come to that conclusion,

1113
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:32,400
Speaker 14: because in theory, what we continually hear is that the

1114
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:35,279
Speaker 14: more crowded field just makes it easier for Trump when

1115
00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:36,680
Speaker 14: all of a sudden done.

1116
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:39,760
Speaker 12: I think that's the case, certainly, and that's what happened

1117
00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:42,840
Speaker 12: in twenty sixteen, Everyone not named Trump seemed to agree

1118
00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:45,120
Speaker 12: that there needed to be a candidate not named Trump,

1119
00:56:45,160 --> 00:56:47,719
Speaker 12: but all of them thought that they themselves should be

1120
00:56:47,719 --> 00:56:50,440
Speaker 12: the candidate to face Trump. And you know, it reminds

1121
00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:51,880
Speaker 12: me a little bit of you know, the story and

1122
00:56:51,960 --> 00:56:54,160
Speaker 12: the Bible of the two women fighting over the baby

1123
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:55,719
Speaker 12: and they're about to cut it in half and who

1124
00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:59,600
Speaker 12: steps back? You know, So you know, it's just everyone

1125
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:02,239
Speaker 12: says we need a candidate other than Trump, but like,

1126
00:57:02,239 --> 00:57:03,680
Speaker 12: here's why I think it should be me. And they're

1127
00:57:03,719 --> 00:57:05,600
Speaker 12: not going to step aside. I mean, this is politics,

1128
00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:08,759
Speaker 12: after all. You know, they can all they all look

1129
00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:11,840
Speaker 12: in the mirror and see themselves as president. And unless

1130
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:14,320
Speaker 12: some of them start doing that and start doing that fast,

1131
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:18,240
Speaker 12: you know where you know, six seven months away from

1132
00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:23,439
Speaker 12: you know, really the beginning of voting, and it's got

1133
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:27,840
Speaker 12: to take a major turn. And you know, DeSantis seemed

1134
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:31,040
Speaker 12: like he might be the consensus anti Trump candidate. But

1135
00:57:31,600 --> 00:57:33,440
Speaker 12: I think he's another person that may have missed his

1136
00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:35,479
Speaker 12: moment of getting in the race. You know, maybe should

1137
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:37,880
Speaker 12: have announced right after he just had a massive re

1138
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:40,640
Speaker 12: election win. The longer he went on and didn't have

1139
00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:43,200
Speaker 12: sort of you know, a rebuttals or Trump continuing to

1140
00:57:43,240 --> 00:57:46,640
Speaker 12: needle him. I think his since getting in the race,

1141
00:57:46,680 --> 00:57:49,600
Speaker 12: he's his announcement tour has gone better than his actual

1142
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:53,520
Speaker 12: announcement that crashed on Twitter did, but he doesn't have that,

1143
00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:56,120
Speaker 12: I think, same gravitas that he seemed like he would have,

1144
00:57:56,200 --> 00:57:57,680
Speaker 12: you know, even five six months ago.

1145
00:57:58,840 --> 00:58:00,320
Speaker 3: Well, based on what you're saying that it's going to

1146
00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:03,680
Speaker 3: be pretty easy for Donald Trump or whomever's making his ads,

1147
00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:06,880
Speaker 3: whether it's his campaign or or a political action committee,

1148
00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:11,760
Speaker 3: it's a rollback tape of Chris Christy endorsing him, of

1149
00:58:11,840 --> 00:58:16,000
Speaker 3: Mike Pence, of course serving his administration for four years,

1150
00:58:16,040 --> 00:58:18,200
Speaker 3: does that just nullify both of those campaigns?

1151
00:58:19,160 --> 00:58:21,200
Speaker 12: I think it's a hard a hard case to make

1152
00:58:21,240 --> 00:58:25,120
Speaker 12: because remember, I mean, just where Donald Trump's popularity is

1153
00:58:25,160 --> 00:58:27,720
Speaker 12: among the Republican base, and it's grown because we did

1154
00:58:27,760 --> 00:58:30,080
Speaker 12: actually see it at a lower point following the twenty

1155
00:58:30,120 --> 00:58:32,360
Speaker 12: twenty two midterms, when a lot of these Trump endorsed

1156
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:36,840
Speaker 12: candidates ended up, you know, not capitalizing on Senate wins,

1157
00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:40,160
Speaker 12: and a lot of bad candidates really costing them, costing

1158
00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:46,120
Speaker 12: Republicans the Senate. But I it's just the further we

1159
00:58:46,160 --> 00:58:48,840
Speaker 12: get away from that the hire. It continues to grow,

1160
00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:53,400
Speaker 12: and I think you know, things that should be you know,

1161
00:58:53,520 --> 00:58:56,000
Speaker 12: counter run counter to the fact, you know, like his

1162
00:58:56,240 --> 00:58:58,800
Speaker 12: the indictment and thing in things in New York that

1163
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:03,440
Speaker 12: those seemed to sort of He can play the martyr.

1164
00:59:03,560 --> 00:59:05,600
Speaker 12: He can say, you know, they're expecting me, they're going

1165
00:59:05,640 --> 00:59:09,640
Speaker 12: after that. That works with the Republican base and it's rallied. Now.

1166
00:59:10,040 --> 00:59:12,880
Speaker 12: I don't think it works in a general election. That

1167
00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:15,920
Speaker 12: is going to remind these independent voters and even disaffected

1168
00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:19,840
Speaker 12: Republicans why they may have voted for Biden in twenty twenty.

1169
00:59:20,200 --> 00:59:22,960
Speaker 12: But it's certainly I think, going to help him solidify

1170
00:59:23,040 --> 00:59:25,480
Speaker 12: his control over the Republican nomination.

1171
00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:28,880
Speaker 14: So, Jessica, as we all here in Washington were a

1172
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:32,240
Speaker 14: buzz with Trump's attorneys being at the DOJ yesterday wondering

1173
00:59:32,240 --> 00:59:35,000
Speaker 14: and if an indictment may soon come down in the

1174
00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:39,040
Speaker 14: documents investigation or I believe Trump is calling it what

1175
00:59:39,120 --> 00:59:39,360
Speaker 14: Joe A.

1176
00:59:39,400 --> 00:59:41,840
Speaker 3: Boxes boxes, Yes, it's just.

1177
00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:45,600
Speaker 14: A yeah, whatever we want to describe that as are

1178
00:59:45,600 --> 00:59:48,720
Speaker 14: you essentially suggesting that just another indictment has the same

1179
00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:51,800
Speaker 14: effect as Alvin Bragg's case up in New York, that

1180
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:54,000
Speaker 14: it just galvanizes his base in as a way for

1181
00:59:54,120 --> 00:59:55,800
Speaker 14: him to raise a bunch of money.

1182
00:59:56,560 --> 00:59:58,760
Speaker 12: I think it absolutely does. I think people he's going

1183
00:59:58,800 --> 01:00:01,439
Speaker 12: to get people to donate a massive, small donor list.

1184
01:00:02,840 --> 01:00:06,200
Speaker 12: You know, you can't get off the Trump campaign email list.

1185
01:00:06,240 --> 01:00:11,680
Speaker 12: I've tried, you cannot, and the emails come multiple times

1186
01:00:11,720 --> 01:00:14,760
Speaker 12: a day. And I think again, he's just going to say,

1187
01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:17,720
Speaker 12: you know, honestly, I think even if it came from

1188
01:00:17,720 --> 01:00:19,960
Speaker 12: the DOJ, he would be able to say, listen, the

1189
01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:23,640
Speaker 12: Biden administration is going after me. And I think that

1190
01:00:23,880 --> 01:00:30,840
Speaker 12: sort of again, like that crusade type thing, painting himself

1191
01:00:30,880 --> 01:00:34,760
Speaker 12: as the victim is appealing to those Republican primary voters

1192
01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:35,680
Speaker 12: that are loyal to him.

1193
01:00:37,200 --> 01:00:40,280
Speaker 3: Great insights and great conversation, Jessica. Thanks for joining us,

1194
01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:42,600
Speaker 3: Jessica Taylor, stay in touch this season. I hope we can.

1195
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:49,480
Speaker 3: At the Cook Political Report latest polls, I'm looking at here, Kaylee.

1196
01:00:49,480 --> 01:00:51,880
Speaker 3: This is real clear politics, and you have to kind

1197
01:00:51,880 --> 01:00:54,960
Speaker 3: of look around to find anything on the national level.

1198
01:00:55,880 --> 01:00:58,120
Speaker 3: But the latest from Iowa brings us back to that

1199
01:00:58,200 --> 01:01:01,680
Speaker 3: Emerson poll from about a week ago. Trump sixty two,

1200
01:01:02,080 --> 01:01:07,919
Speaker 3: DeSantis twenty wow, Haley five, Pence five. Just goes down

1201
01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:13,200
Speaker 3: from there. Hutchinson won Sinunu at that point. One. We'll

1202
01:01:13,200 --> 01:01:15,160
Speaker 3: see what Chris Christy can do now he jumps in

1203
01:01:15,200 --> 01:01:15,520
Speaker 3: the race.

1204
01:01:15,560 --> 01:01:18,240
Speaker 14: And it is that one percent threshold that's required to

1205
01:01:18,240 --> 01:01:19,680
Speaker 14: get on that debate stage in August.

1206
01:01:19,760 --> 01:01:22,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, my god, Yes, the one that Donald Trump won't

1207
01:01:22,160 --> 01:01:25,000
Speaker 3: be at. Nice to talk with, Jessica.

1208
01:01:25,560 --> 01:01:29,040
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch us

1209
01:01:29,080 --> 01:01:30,480
Speaker 1: live weekdays at one.

1210
01:01:30,280 --> 01:01:33,520
Speaker 2: Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and the

1211
01:01:33,560 --> 01:01:36,640
Speaker 2: Bloomberg Business App, or listen on demand wherever you get

1212
01:01:36,680 --> 01:01:37,480
Speaker 2: your podcasts.

1213
01:01:39,520 --> 01:01:45,000
Speaker 3: Merk says it's tantamounts to extortion. The portion of the

1214
01:01:45,040 --> 01:01:48,480
Speaker 3: Inflation Reduction Act actually now law that allows the government

1215
01:01:48,520 --> 01:01:52,160
Speaker 3: to negotiate prescription drug prices big part of a Joe

1216
01:01:52,200 --> 01:01:55,120
Speaker 3: Biden's platform frankly for reelection. Well, it was part of

1217
01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:59,040
Speaker 3: his platform for election to begin with. Mark calling for

1218
01:01:59,080 --> 01:02:03,240
Speaker 3: a court stay against any negotiations involving itself, and the

1219
01:02:03,280 --> 01:02:05,680
Speaker 3: White House is pledging to fight. At Press Secretary Karine

1220
01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:07,080
Speaker 3: Jean Pierre a short time ago.

1221
01:02:07,080 --> 01:02:09,840
Speaker 16: There is nothing the constitution that in the constitution that

1222
01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:14,720
Speaker 16: prevents Medicare from negotiating lower drug prices anytime profits of

1223
01:02:14,760 --> 01:02:18,880
Speaker 16: the pharmaceutical industry are challenged. They make claims about it

1224
01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:21,760
Speaker 16: hindering their ability to innovate.

1225
01:02:22,080 --> 01:02:25,040
Speaker 3: I'm Joe Matthew and Washington, along with Kaylee Lines, and

1226
01:02:25,080 --> 01:02:26,720
Speaker 3: you could, really you could call this, I guess, the

1227
01:02:26,800 --> 01:02:30,520
Speaker 3: latest effort to dismantle the IRA, the Inflation Reduction Act,

1228
01:02:30,520 --> 01:02:33,000
Speaker 3: which Republicans have been trying to defund and take apart.

1229
01:02:33,320 --> 01:02:36,439
Speaker 3: Certainly we saw that example during the debt ceiling fight.

1230
01:02:36,920 --> 01:02:40,400
Speaker 14: Yeah, we certainly did. Of course, the administration is suggesting

1231
01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:42,320
Speaker 14: that it believes the law is on our side. That's

1232
01:02:42,320 --> 01:02:46,440
Speaker 14: according to the HHS Secretary Bsera. So they will try

1233
01:02:46,440 --> 01:02:49,480
Speaker 14: to stand for and defend the Inflation Reduction Acts. They

1234
01:02:49,520 --> 01:02:52,200
Speaker 14: pointed out that they see it already lowering healthcare costs

1235
01:02:52,240 --> 01:02:55,560
Speaker 14: for seniors and people with disabilities. But obviously on the

1236
01:02:55,600 --> 01:03:00,320
Speaker 14: pharmaceutical side. They are taking issue with MRK doing so today, sickly,

1237
01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:01,960
Speaker 14: saying it violates the constitution.

1238
01:03:02,240 --> 01:03:02,800
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1239
01:03:02,960 --> 01:03:06,560
Speaker 14: Uh, and it's a sham process. Granted, we haven't even

1240
01:03:06,560 --> 01:03:09,400
Speaker 14: gotten the full list of drugs this would apply to.

1241
01:03:09,600 --> 01:03:10,760
Speaker 14: We're expecting that in the fall.

1242
01:03:10,960 --> 01:03:13,040
Speaker 3: I guess this would not involve other companies, although you

1243
01:03:13,080 --> 01:03:16,560
Speaker 3: wonder if one sues. There are many more to follow

1244
01:03:17,720 --> 01:03:19,920
Speaker 3: reporting on this for Bloomberg and you can read the

1245
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:23,560
Speaker 3: story on the terminal Naha Katan. Now, how does this

1246
01:03:23,640 --> 01:03:26,560
Speaker 3: then become a constitutional law class? Is that what this

1247
01:03:26,680 --> 01:03:27,360
Speaker 3: is all about?

1248
01:03:28,200 --> 01:03:31,400
Speaker 17: Hi? Thank you, thank you for having me, Joe and Kaylee. Sure.

1249
01:03:31,720 --> 01:03:32,040
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1250
01:03:32,080 --> 01:03:35,920
Speaker 17: So, first, Merk took this very unusual step of suing

1251
01:03:35,920 --> 01:03:41,920
Speaker 17: the government you know, uh and declaring that or arguing

1252
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:47,320
Speaker 17: that it's it violates the Constitution for two reasons. One

1253
01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:55,919
Speaker 17: because the IRA is they they say, recouping funds resources

1254
01:03:55,960 --> 01:04:01,480
Speaker 17: from Merk by negotiating such you know, negotiating prices but

1255
01:04:01,600 --> 01:04:05,280
Speaker 17: not giving compensation to to Mark for that, and so

1256
01:04:05,320 --> 01:04:07,520
Speaker 17: that's a violation of the Fifth Amendment, they say. And

1257
01:04:07,560 --> 01:04:12,480
Speaker 17: then they arue a violation of the First Amendment because

1258
01:04:13,520 --> 01:04:16,160
Speaker 17: what they say is like like you mentioned, they call

1259
01:04:16,200 --> 01:04:21,520
Speaker 17: it a sham negotiation where the government is claiming that

1260
01:04:21,560 --> 01:04:25,480
Speaker 17: it's a negotiation, but really the company doesn't have a

1261
01:04:25,600 --> 01:04:29,120
Speaker 17: choice because they could incur fines or taxes if they

1262
01:04:29,120 --> 01:04:34,200
Speaker 17: don't abide. So they say that, you know, it's misleading

1263
01:04:34,240 --> 01:04:37,760
Speaker 17: because it actually isn't a negotiation, it's an extortion, like

1264
01:04:38,360 --> 01:04:38,960
Speaker 17: like you mentioned.

1265
01:04:39,040 --> 01:04:43,120
Speaker 14: Yes, okay, so obviously Mark, as you said, is the

1266
01:04:43,160 --> 01:04:46,000
Speaker 14: first company to kind of make this accusation or at

1267
01:04:46,080 --> 01:04:50,880
Speaker 14: least actually mount a legal challenge. Is this what drugs

1268
01:04:50,920 --> 01:04:53,600
Speaker 14: of merks that we do we anticipate are going to

1269
01:04:53,800 --> 01:04:56,920
Speaker 14: even be among those that are negotiated in price? Because

1270
01:04:57,080 --> 01:04:59,040
Speaker 14: has that full list come out yet?

1271
01:04:59,440 --> 01:05:01,120
Speaker 17: No, it's not do until September.

1272
01:05:01,160 --> 01:05:03,920
Speaker 14: And actually that list they're just anticipating, right, that.

1273
01:05:03,920 --> 01:05:06,240
Speaker 17: List is only for twenty twenty six, So we're not

1274
01:05:06,320 --> 01:05:13,960
Speaker 17: even gonna know what the major twenty twenty eight negotiations

1275
01:05:13,960 --> 01:05:17,280
Speaker 17: are gonna entail until, you know, not for a couple

1276
01:05:17,320 --> 01:05:21,800
Speaker 17: of years. But they are anticipating that, and a lot

1277
01:05:21,800 --> 01:05:24,120
Speaker 17: of people are anticipating that k trudah is going to

1278
01:05:24,200 --> 01:05:27,960
Speaker 17: be one of the negotiated drugs in twenty twenty eight.

1279
01:05:27,960 --> 01:05:32,840
Speaker 17: And k Truda is absolutely, you know, pivotal for the company.

1280
01:05:33,560 --> 01:05:36,600
Speaker 14: So this is essentially them trying to mount a defense

1281
01:05:36,680 --> 01:05:40,040
Speaker 14: before the administration can even begin negotiations on one of

1282
01:05:40,080 --> 01:05:42,200
Speaker 14: their landmark products.

1283
01:05:41,920 --> 01:05:42,439
Speaker 17: Right, I think.

1284
01:05:42,480 --> 01:05:42,560
Speaker 16: So.

1285
01:05:42,640 --> 01:05:46,040
Speaker 17: I think there was a lot of expectation actually that

1286
01:05:46,160 --> 01:05:50,200
Speaker 17: lawsuits would come, but maybe once September rolled around and

1287
01:05:50,240 --> 01:05:53,400
Speaker 17: we had the actual list. So this seems like, right,

1288
01:05:53,520 --> 01:05:54,600
Speaker 17: they're anticipating it.

1289
01:05:55,520 --> 01:05:58,320
Speaker 3: Nah, thanks for being with us Naha Katan. Find the

1290
01:05:58,360 --> 01:06:01,160
Speaker 3: story on the terminal. You can do a tick or

1291
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:04,120
Speaker 3: search for Mark or a new search here Merkseu's US

1292
01:06:04,120 --> 01:06:07,680
Speaker 3: calling move to cut drug prices extortion. It does feel

1293
01:06:07,720 --> 01:06:09,400
Speaker 3: like you think you framed that pretty well. Keyley, kind

1294
01:06:09,400 --> 01:06:11,720
Speaker 3: of an opening salvo on what's going to be a negotiation,

1295
01:06:11,800 --> 01:06:13,200
Speaker 3: whether Burke wants it to be or not.

1296
01:06:13,360 --> 01:06:16,000
Speaker 14: Right, And I just wonder if any other pharmaceutical companies

1297
01:06:16,000 --> 01:06:19,640
Speaker 14: will kind of join Mark in this fight, or if

1298
01:06:19,640 --> 01:06:21,160
Speaker 14: this is going to be a fight that it has

1299
01:06:21,200 --> 01:06:22,760
Speaker 14: to has to lead alone.

1300
01:06:22,960 --> 01:06:26,840
Speaker 3: Negotiations are estimated to save the government almost one hundred

1301
01:06:27,080 --> 01:06:30,840
Speaker 3: billion dollars by twenty thirty one. This was part of

1302
01:06:30,920 --> 01:06:34,200
Speaker 3: the sales pitch of the IRA. So if you take

1303
01:06:34,280 --> 01:06:37,320
Speaker 3: that out or some of the things that Republicans were

1304
01:06:37,360 --> 01:06:41,080
Speaker 3: looking to defund inside the IRA, and they wanted to

1305
01:06:41,120 --> 01:06:45,960
Speaker 3: claw back, for instance, IRS funding to provide more funding

1306
01:06:45,960 --> 01:06:48,480
Speaker 3: for the agency to actually get the tax dollars do

1307
01:06:48,600 --> 01:06:53,040
Speaker 3: the government Without these pillars, the rest of the law

1308
01:06:53,160 --> 01:06:56,880
Speaker 3: doesn't work as promised. So there's going to be massive

1309
01:06:56,920 --> 01:06:59,800
Speaker 3: pushback from the White House, not only from the standpoint

1310
01:06:59,840 --> 01:07:02,080
Speaker 3: of cents, but the politics of it. This is the

1311
01:07:02,320 --> 01:07:06,320
Speaker 3: crowning achievement. This is what build back better ended up being. Yeah,

1312
01:07:06,360 --> 01:07:08,760
Speaker 3: Donald Trump or Donald Trump Joe Biden can put this

1313
01:07:08,960 --> 01:07:10,439
Speaker 3: in front of voters for the next year.

1314
01:07:10,640 --> 01:07:10,800
Speaker 12: Right.

1315
01:07:10,880 --> 01:07:14,240
Speaker 14: This is one of the kind of landmark legislative accomplishments

1316
01:07:14,280 --> 01:07:16,760
Speaker 14: of this administration that they are going to try to

1317
01:07:16,800 --> 01:07:20,880
Speaker 14: tout in the race against perhaps Donald Trump in twenty

1318
01:07:21,080 --> 01:07:23,360
Speaker 14: twenty four. He doesn't want to have to unwind any

1319
01:07:23,400 --> 01:07:26,919
Speaker 14: of these legislative accomplishments. This is why he pushed back

1320
01:07:27,000 --> 01:07:30,360
Speaker 14: so aggressively on the idea of stripping any IRA related

1321
01:07:30,400 --> 01:07:33,760
Speaker 14: measures out of out or putting it into the deal,

1322
01:07:33,800 --> 01:07:35,840
Speaker 14: the stripping out of some of those IRA measures. What

1323
01:07:35,920 --> 01:07:38,560
Speaker 14: is so interesting to me, though, is that seems pretty

1324
01:07:39,840 --> 01:07:42,000
Speaker 14: set on taking this all the way if they have to.

1325
01:07:42,040 --> 01:07:44,120
Speaker 14: They said they would take this all the way to

1326
01:07:44,240 --> 01:07:46,480
Speaker 14: the Supreme Court. That also suggests that this may be

1327
01:07:46,520 --> 01:07:49,240
Speaker 14: a very drawn out legal battle. I mean, who knows

1328
01:07:49,280 --> 01:07:51,080
Speaker 14: if we would even have a resolution to this by

1329
01:07:51,160 --> 01:07:52,760
Speaker 14: twenty twenty four and that election.

1330
01:07:52,920 --> 01:07:55,040
Speaker 3: That's a great point. We're going to talk, by the way,

1331
01:07:55,320 --> 01:07:58,800
Speaker 3: talk about this issue with Congressman Dan Kildey, the Democrat

1332
01:07:59,120 --> 01:08:02,120
Speaker 3: from Michigan who authored the bill to cap the price

1333
01:08:02,360 --> 01:08:05,200
Speaker 3: of insulin. He's going to join us on Balance of

1334
01:08:05,240 --> 01:08:08,880
Speaker 3: Power on Bloomberg TV starting at five pm Eastern time.

1335
01:08:08,920 --> 01:08:11,400
Speaker 3: You'll be there as well. Kaylee, you're reporting on the

1336
01:08:11,520 --> 01:08:13,919
Speaker 3: Coinbase story tonight. We've got a lot of interesting, sort

1337
01:08:13,920 --> 01:08:17,840
Speaker 3: of diverse financial stories like Real down the Middle, Bloomberg

1338
01:08:17,920 --> 01:08:21,080
Speaker 3: kind of stories that impact investors and the policy conversation

1339
01:08:21,400 --> 01:08:23,479
Speaker 3: at once today. Somehow they're all emerging on this to

1340
01:08:23,560 --> 01:08:24,240
Speaker 3: hint Washington.

1341
01:08:24,320 --> 01:08:26,760
Speaker 14: Yeah, and we're talking about public companies here right Like

1342
01:08:26,880 --> 01:08:29,160
Speaker 14: Murk is publicly listed in the US. Those shares are

1343
01:08:29,160 --> 01:08:31,960
Speaker 14: down today, as is Coinbase off the loads of the session.

1344
01:08:32,000 --> 01:08:34,000
Speaker 14: But still this is a stock down twelve percent on

1345
01:08:34,040 --> 01:08:37,439
Speaker 14: the day after the SEC accused it of violating securities laws.

1346
01:08:37,439 --> 01:08:40,640
Speaker 14: So that kind of regulatory policy part of the conversation

1347
01:08:40,760 --> 01:08:43,400
Speaker 14: clearly has a market impact. And here in Washington and

1348
01:08:43,439 --> 01:08:45,479
Speaker 14: on Wall Street and everywhere else, we're paying attention.

1349
01:08:45,720 --> 01:08:48,599
Speaker 3: Policy matters if you're an investor. That's what we try

1350
01:08:48,600 --> 01:08:50,800
Speaker 3: to bring to you every day here in this conversation

1351
01:08:50,920 --> 01:08:54,240
Speaker 3: on sound On along with Kaylee Lines, I'm Joe Matthew.

1352
01:08:54,720 --> 01:08:56,439
Speaker 3: We're going to bring you on a walk. You're going

1353
01:08:56,520 --> 01:08:59,360
Speaker 3: to actually be in Kaylee's shoes coming up in Chasing Down,

1354
01:08:59,479 --> 01:09:03,160
Speaker 3: Jamie Dye on Capitol Hill and what was said that's next.

1355
01:09:03,160 --> 01:09:08,480
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg. You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast.

1356
01:09:08,880 --> 01:09:11,400
Speaker 1: Catch us live weekdays at one Eastern.

1357
01:09:11,160 --> 01:09:14,320
Speaker 2: On Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg

1358
01:09:14,360 --> 01:09:17,760
Speaker 2: Business App, or listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts.

1359
01:09:20,880 --> 01:09:24,559
Speaker 3: I think we talk now, I think we talk now.

1360
01:09:24,680 --> 01:09:26,320
Speaker 3: I'm Joe Matthew. This is Kayley Lines.

1361
01:09:27,000 --> 01:09:28,800
Speaker 14: Just keeping us on our toes Cheah.

1362
01:09:28,520 --> 01:09:31,759
Speaker 3: For sure, absolutely as we join you live from Washington,

1363
01:09:32,080 --> 01:09:35,320
Speaker 3: where anything can happen, by God, even a visit from

1364
01:09:35,400 --> 01:09:37,960
Speaker 3: Kayley Lines in person if you are in the right

1365
01:09:38,040 --> 01:09:39,800
Speaker 3: Hall of Congress. So we need to get to this

1366
01:09:39,840 --> 01:09:42,559
Speaker 3: before we say goodbye. And by the way, Carol and

1367
01:09:42,600 --> 01:09:44,760
Speaker 3: Matt are on the way with Bloomberg Business Week coming up.

1368
01:09:44,840 --> 01:09:47,720
Speaker 3: Jamie Diamond in town today to have a conversation, right,

1369
01:09:47,840 --> 01:09:50,479
Speaker 3: not a hearing, Nope, just a chat sitting down with

1370
01:09:50,560 --> 01:09:52,240
Speaker 3: House Democrats to talk about.

1371
01:09:52,000 --> 01:09:54,920
Speaker 14: What whatever they want to talk about is what we.

1372
01:09:54,920 --> 01:09:55,800
Speaker 3: Told know that, isn't it?

1373
01:09:55,880 --> 01:09:56,040
Speaker 17: Yes?

1374
01:09:56,080 --> 01:09:58,040
Speaker 3: All right, so set the stage. He's walking out of

1375
01:09:58,040 --> 01:10:01,000
Speaker 3: the house. He has finished his work, here chasing him.

1376
01:10:01,560 --> 01:10:04,000
Speaker 14: He's going in, he's getting out of the car. I'm

1377
01:10:04,040 --> 01:10:05,559
Speaker 14: trying to walk to my car because I got to

1378
01:10:05,560 --> 01:10:07,400
Speaker 14: get back to the studio to do the Crypto show

1379
01:10:07,400 --> 01:10:11,120
Speaker 14: at one, and it's twelve forty. He's getting out of

1380
01:10:11,120 --> 01:10:14,759
Speaker 14: the car and I'm like, hey, mister Diamond. Hi, mister Diamond,

1381
01:10:14,960 --> 01:10:16,240
Speaker 14: Yeah you were Why are you doing? What are you

1382
01:10:16,280 --> 01:10:19,599
Speaker 14: discussing with lawmakers today?

1383
01:10:19,720 --> 01:10:19,800
Speaker 5: Now?

1384
01:10:20,040 --> 01:10:21,960
Speaker 14: If you remember me, I was chasing you here last

1385
01:10:22,000 --> 01:10:23,560
Speaker 14: time when you met with the majority.

1386
01:10:23,200 --> 01:10:24,599
Speaker 3: Of this This is such behind the scenes.

1387
01:10:24,760 --> 01:10:26,679
Speaker 14: You have no response to reports this week that banks

1388
01:10:26,680 --> 01:10:29,640
Speaker 14: such as yours may face twenty percent higher capital requirements

1389
01:10:29,880 --> 01:10:30,799
Speaker 14: under a FED proposal.

1390
01:10:30,800 --> 01:10:32,840
Speaker 5: I just read it this morning, and I hope the

1391
01:10:32,920 --> 01:10:35,320
Speaker 5: REGOs are very thoughtful for what they do and so

1392
01:10:36,120 --> 01:10:37,759
Speaker 5: but we'll see when we'll do it, all.

1393
01:10:37,680 --> 01:10:39,519
Speaker 3: Right, Jamie, are you gonna run for president? So there

1394
01:10:39,520 --> 01:10:41,240
Speaker 3: are a couple other folks, there be one other.

1395
01:10:41,080 --> 01:10:41,640
Speaker 9: Reporter with you.

1396
01:10:41,760 --> 01:10:43,400
Speaker 14: You lay said, I have no intention of doing that,

1397
01:10:43,720 --> 01:10:46,280
Speaker 14: no intention this year or in twenty twenty four or ever.

1398
01:10:46,720 --> 01:10:48,520
Speaker 10: Well, I never say never did anything.

1399
01:10:48,240 --> 01:10:48,320
Speaker 13: But.

1400
01:10:50,040 --> 01:10:54,120
Speaker 3: Kaylee lines with the news as we expected. Never say never.

1401
01:10:58,160 --> 01:11:00,479
Speaker 3: Thanks for listening to the sound on podcast. Make sure

1402
01:11:00,479 --> 01:11:03,320
Speaker 3: to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, and

1403
01:11:03,400 --> 01:11:05,960
Speaker 3: anywhere else you get your podcasts, and you can find

1404
01:11:06,040 --> 01:11:08,760
Speaker 3: us live every weekday from Washington, d C. At one

1405
01:11:08,800 --> 01:11:12,800
Speaker 3: pm Eastern Time at Bloomberg dot com