Speaker 1: Now really.
Speaker 2: Really real hello, and welcome to really know really with
Speaker 2: Jayson Alexander and Peter Tilden, who remind you that subscribing
Speaker 2: to our show is one of the sexiest things you
Speaker 2: can possibly do, all by yourself.
Speaker 3: So hit that subscribe button slowly.
Speaker 2: And speaking of sex, there seems to be a whole
Speaker 2: lot of it going on in both film and stage.
Speaker 2: This year's Oscars feature two films where sexuality and nudity
Speaker 2: play a major part, Anora and The Substance. But sexuality
Speaker 2: in cinema is not new. What has changed is the
Speaker 2: film and stage industry's understanding of the complex and intimate
Speaker 2: demands it makes on the actors who must perform it.
Speaker 3: The me Too movement brought.
Speaker 2: Increased scrutiny to on screen contact, and with that a
Speaker 2: relatively new position called an intimacy coordinator was born. Part coach,
Speaker 2: part choreographer, and often part therapists, Intimacy coordinators are now
Speaker 2: tasked with helping assist the artistic vision of the intimate
Speaker 2: story while providing the guidance and communication between producers, directors,
Speaker 2: and performers. And despite how seemingly obvious the need for
Speaker 2: them may be, they are often regarded as superfluous, unnecessary,
Speaker 2: or irksome.
Speaker 3: Really no, really.
Speaker 2: Today the guys talk to Yehuda Duenya, a sag after,
Speaker 2: a credited intimacy coordinator who provides full service intimacy coordination
Speaker 2: for film, TV and theater productions. They'll discuss what the
Speaker 2: job actually entails, what the qualifications are to become and
Speaker 2: I see what the challenges can be. And most importantly,
Speaker 2: we may discover why it is that our own Jason
Speaker 2: Alexander has appeared so often in the bluff. We'll also
Speaker 2: find out how he feels about it. Now here hopefully
Speaker 2: with clothes are Jason and Peter this season?
Speaker 4: In particular, the films that I've seen that have had
Speaker 4: the most you know sort of people are talking.
Speaker 1: About there's a lot of sexuality in these films.
Speaker 4: What like I saw Anora the other day and it's
Speaker 4: and it's about a sex worker and there's a lot
Speaker 4: of sexual no clothing, didn't I don't know where like
Speaker 4: you know, well, please you're Hollywood adjacent, not even but
Speaker 4: there's a lot going on.
Speaker 1: Now. I have done some stuff.
Speaker 5: Oh that's right, and love, valor, compassion.
Speaker 1: Passion, but even on Asha Bob Patterson we did make it.
Speaker 4: That's right, naked standing there in front of forty guys,
Speaker 4: naked with basically.
Speaker 1: A leaf, and you know, to your credit, and it
Speaker 1: was not comfortable.
Speaker 5: To your credit. And I, you know what, in thinking
Speaker 5: about this later on now that you bring that up,
Speaker 5: I felt you. And I never said this here because
Speaker 5: I know who comedic it was, and because you're chunking
Speaker 5: and it's funny and you're uncomfortable and you play uncomfortable funny.
Speaker 5: I never had a discussion with you, and I really
Speaker 5: did feel bad afterwards that I never asked you, are
Speaker 5: you uncomfortable doing it? Are you incremfortable? But no, I
Speaker 5: never did. And and you know what I take. I
Speaker 5: always assume with you, you go for the even great
Speaker 5: you do comedy, You'll do whatever gets to laugh. But
Speaker 5: I should have said, are you okay doing I know
Speaker 5: you would have said yes, and you did it, but
Speaker 5: it's still yet a lot of people on that set.
Speaker 5: I'm well away, and this intimacy in movies. Right now,
Speaker 5: the big story is Blake Lively and Justin Baldini, who
Speaker 5: was in the movie, directed the movie, and produced the movie.
Speaker 5: They're going back and forth with lawsuits, saying that he
Speaker 5: was even before shooting he inserted improvised with tuitor sexual
Speaker 5: content and there was specifically, and his lawyers released the
Speaker 5: scene where they were dancing and he was kissing her
Speaker 5: neck to doing stuff dialog and one of the intimacy
Speaker 5: or people who watched this comment and said it looked
Speaker 5: like they were negotiating the stuff as the scene was happening.
Speaker 5: He claims that he had a meeting with an intimacy
Speaker 5: coordinator before the movie and she didn't make the meeting
Speaker 5: that she said, I don't need to come to the meeting.
Speaker 5: She's saying she had to beg to get an emascy coordinator.
Speaker 5: And then somebody else said, usually with dance scenes, it's
Speaker 5: nudity at sexistists. Usually with dance scenes, even though they're close,
Speaker 5: you don't need an is the coordinator. So we figured, well,
Speaker 5: we're in New Turf. Yeah, and I got a lot
Speaker 5: of questions. And then you're dealing with people who have
Speaker 5: different level of what they perceived to be on car.
Speaker 4: You don't know you're working from multiple people at the
Speaker 4: same time. You're working for the producer, you're working for
Speaker 4: the director who has a vision of how this is
Speaker 4: supposed to go on, and then you're working with four
Speaker 4: and with the people who have to execute it, who
Speaker 4: will bring their own is.
Speaker 5: And there's been pushback, like Michael Douglas said, you don't
Speaker 5: need one because what it does is that usurp the director.
Speaker 5: Director should be doing this and getting it. Jennifer Aniston
Speaker 5: was asked when she worked with John ham on a
Speaker 5: second team during the morning show I get one. She said,
Speaker 5: come on, we're both professionals, and John and I discussed
Speaker 5: what we were comfortable with or not. But not everybody
Speaker 5: comes from that same place or it doesn't have traumas
Speaker 5: in the past.
Speaker 4: Second, and I will tell you I've never directed sex,
Speaker 4: but I directed some partial nudity and intimacy.
Speaker 1: I mean two people in a bed in a film.
Speaker 1: I have never been more uncomfortable in my life.
Speaker 5: And I'm sure and there's no there's no You walk
Speaker 5: into a set man and you're it's like when you
Speaker 5: just signed and you're a guest director.
Speaker 4: It's uncomfortably in that I was the guest director. We
Speaker 4: didn't have a guest but again, new actor or whatever.
Speaker 4: You're walking into a culture you don't know, so you
Speaker 4: don't know when you're walking into a.
Speaker 1: Set Listen, it doesn't. It's as simple as this.
Speaker 4: How many times on the TV show or a film
Speaker 4: or on a stage play do you see two actors
Speaker 4: playing they're a married couple, they casually kiss each other
Speaker 4: good morning. Yeah, I don't normally kiss that person. So
Speaker 4: if you don't know, there's a whole, really relatively new
Speaker 4: job of intimacy coordinator into me intimacy director, and we
Speaker 4: have in our studio today mister Uhuda Duenyas, who is
Speaker 4: a sag After accredited intimacy coordinator who provides full service
Speaker 4: intimacy coordination for film, TV and theater. Right, he's also
Speaker 4: an award winning experiential director, and I want to find
Speaker 4: out what that means, transdisciplinary artist working, as he says,
Speaker 4: at the intersections of intimacy, experiential design, performance, film and sound.
Speaker 4: And sure, here we go another one another, every winner,
Speaker 4: Emmy winner, Emmy winner. They are all Emmy winners.
Speaker 1: M Webby Awards.
Speaker 4: I don't have a Webby Award, eight cons Lions Awards,
Speaker 4: I don't have.
Speaker 1: Any of those. You know how many commercials I've done.
Speaker 1: I don't have a Cleo.
Speaker 4: He's got eleven Kleos, two Facebook Awards, I'm not even
Speaker 4: on Facebook and Albi.
Speaker 1: Award and then the other among all most others.
Speaker 4: Right, it's a complete for a guy I'm supposed to be.
Speaker 1: I'm already feeling a little.
Speaker 5: Bit off, but you got let's welcome you, Huda Duenas. Hello,
Speaker 5: so for coming in and congratulations on all the honors.
Speaker 5: That's a lot. You must be pretty good at what
Speaker 5: you do. How long have you been doing this?
Speaker 6: Yere okay, so I it's great to be here. By
Speaker 6: the way, it's nice to meet you both. I began
Speaker 6: this practice in two thousand and seven directing theater in
Speaker 6: New York, and I was directing shows and you have
Speaker 6: the theater back ground in New York. I was directing
Speaker 6: shows that had very extreme content in them, and was
Speaker 6: working with a cast who I really cared about, a
Speaker 6: playwright who I really cared about as well, and wanted
Speaker 6: to make sure that they could do thirty performances and
Speaker 6: not want to tear each other's eyeballs out. And also
Speaker 6: it was very traumatic work. I mean, the content of
Speaker 6: the piece was very traumatic and so exactly like you
Speaker 6: said in your intro, we don't know, everyone's got something around,
Speaker 6: some sort of intimacy. Everyone's had an experience, and the
Speaker 6: statistics are pretty staggering about that, about how many people
Speaker 6: have had something happen in their life. And so it
Speaker 6: was very important to me that we approached these scenes
Speaker 6: very carefully and also that we served the play, that
Speaker 6: it looked great, and that you know, that we served
Speaker 6: the playwrights vision. So I started developing a system. And
Speaker 6: you know, it was two thousand and seven. This was
Speaker 6: I date myself here, but I had my first iPhone
Speaker 6: that year. It was the year the iPhone came out.
Speaker 6: The word consent existed in the dictionary, but it was
Speaker 6: not a word that we were using a lot. And
Speaker 6: I just started developing practices of how to slowly get
Speaker 6: the actors to perform these.
Speaker 5: Roles independent, independent, if you had no mentor yet nobody
Speaker 5: else you saw doing.
Speaker 6: It, no, And that was very surprising to me that,
Speaker 6: you know, we also had a slap on the stage,
Speaker 6: and so we had to pay a fight director to
Speaker 6: come and teach the actors how to slap each other.
Speaker 7: But if we're dealing.
Speaker 6: With non consensual incestual, you know, the scenario was on set,
Speaker 6: it was just up to me and the stage manager.
Speaker 7: And the actors figure it out.
Speaker 6: And I'd been an actor for many years as well
Speaker 6: and had had some experiences where the director says, you know.
Speaker 7: Why don't you aren't you gone the hallway and kiss.
Speaker 6: Each other and kind of figure it out, the figure
Speaker 6: it out, and so you know, to take that back
Speaker 6: into the fight director and fight choreography realm, you.
Speaker 7: Wouldn't say, you know, Peter, why don't you just like.
Speaker 1: Just just just give.
Speaker 6: Jason a nice slap on the face and get it
Speaker 6: over with, you know, And so you know, the damage
Speaker 6: from a slap is different than the damage from putting
Speaker 6: people into uncomfortable situations, but the emotional resonance is very similar.
Speaker 6: And so that was my first experience, and I was
Speaker 6: the director too, And so now we really want to
Speaker 6: separate out the director and intimacy coordinator were there to
Speaker 6: really disrupt the power dynamics that are on sets and.
Speaker 4: For people that you know, if this all sounds alien
Speaker 4: to somebody, I think most people have heard at this
Speaker 4: point intimacy coordinator or director. But if you had to
Speaker 4: define what the parameters of the job are, what what
Speaker 4: you know sort of technically is it.
Speaker 6: Exactly well, we are trained professionals were artists, and we're
Speaker 6: there to help facilitate intimate scenes between the creative vision
Speaker 6: of the production and the performers and the cast and
Speaker 6: the cast and the crew as well. And you know
Speaker 6: there's a lot inside of that. But I was about
Speaker 6: to say, is that you never again you just don't
Speaker 6: know where everyone's coming from. You know, it could be
Speaker 6: a crew member watching the traumatic situations could bring up
Speaker 6: something from that. You just don't know what start.
Speaker 5: How much do you know going in? And who hires
Speaker 5: the director, actor, producer And the second part of that
Speaker 5: is that the producer hires or the director. What if
Speaker 5: the producer is not necessarily on board? Does that cause friction?
Speaker 6: There's a lot of needles to thread and there's a
Speaker 6: few questions in there. So first you should be trained
Speaker 6: in order to do this work. And so I also
Speaker 6: run a training organization or called Cinema the Cinematic Intimacy Artists,
Speaker 6: and we certify were sag After credited to certify intimacy coordinators.
Speaker 6: So training is really key and sag After lays out
Speaker 6: a series of protocols that we should be trained in.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but do you get pushed back because I mentioned
Speaker 5: in the intro. Like Michael Douglas said, he doesn't like
Speaker 5: intimacy coordinators because the control of the film and the
Speaker 5: scene is taken away from the director. Jennifer Andison said,
Speaker 5: we're adults. We know how we know that it was premissure,
Speaker 5: and there's been others who said the same thing. They
Speaker 5: have a choice, I guess not to do it or
Speaker 5: to do it. But do you get pushed back if
Speaker 5: an actor's uncomfortable and wants you there, but the director
Speaker 5: does What if somebody is against it when he's on
Speaker 5: these four its, somebody doesn't understand it. How do you
Speaker 5: balance that once you're brought in.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and you know, I've encountered every permutation of that.
Speaker 6: Everyone's on board. They love it. It's really exciting. It
Speaker 6: could be a very joyous, fun experience. Actually, you said
Speaker 6: you were extremely uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: But I needed a fun experience exactly.
Speaker 6: You make you know, we build a good space, and
Speaker 6: you know, we build a bubble around the work that
Speaker 6: we're doing close the set. There's a lot of protocols
Speaker 6: that we follow and techniques that we have for icebreakers
Speaker 6: and things to do in the case of like you know,
Speaker 6: Jenniferns and John Ham, and I know the intimacy coordinator
Speaker 6: was one of my trainees on that project. They are
Speaker 6: they're professionals, and you know they particularly they didn't want
Speaker 6: one for those particular scenes. But imagine it was a
Speaker 6: star at a high level and a you know, day
Speaker 6: player who's coming in for a day.
Speaker 7: There's a real imbalance there.
Speaker 6: And if the star at the higher level is saying
Speaker 6: I'm fine with anything, what position does that put.
Speaker 7: The day player in to say, well, if.
Speaker 6: They're fine with everything, then I'm going to be fine
Speaker 6: with everything too, because I don't want to be a problem.
Speaker 6: And so Jennifer Aniston and John Ham, I'm sure they
Speaker 6: are really comfortable with each other, and that's fine.
Speaker 7: You know that there's nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 6: Like they and you know, they have every right to
Speaker 6: that comfort that they have with one another. But we're
Speaker 6: also there for the crew members. We're also there for
Speaker 6: the director. What if something goes wrong, you know, like
Speaker 6: there's a lot of things that could happen that we
Speaker 6: are there to help mediate and to mitigate.
Speaker 5: If you're a psychologists, a psychiatrist, I mean, you've got
Speaker 5: to be everything kind of at the moment at any
Speaker 5: given moment. So if I can bring up the premise
Speaker 5: that we started with Blake Lively, this thing has gotten
Speaker 5: so ugly when I read that there's two intimacy coordinators
Speaker 5: on that movie, and then again Jason Baldi claimed that
Speaker 5: she didn't come to the meeting and in the dance
Speaker 5: scene they weren't there. And then I saw other intimacy
Speaker 5: coordinators quoted as saying, well, you don't necessarily need one
Speaker 5: in a dance scene, but maybe you do. What's your take.
Speaker 5: You probably know much more about this or what happened,
Speaker 5: and probably know the people involved the coordinators.
Speaker 7: I don't know that.
Speaker 6: I don't know the people involved specifically, and it's an
Speaker 6: ongoing litigation, so you know, we can zoom out a
Speaker 6: little bit and just sort of look at the there's
Speaker 6: a lot happening in this particular scenario. Having an intimacy
Speaker 6: coordinator and just talking about the realm of what you
Speaker 6: want to do beforehand is just really helpful for everyone.
Speaker 6: It just it smooths you wouldn't go into You wouldn't
Speaker 6: suddenly think like I actually think this actor should fly
Speaker 6: out of the second story window, or I just think
Speaker 6: that they should have a fight here and not have
Speaker 6: someone to help coordinate that. That's why we have stunt coordinators,
Speaker 6: That's why we have fight you know, fight directors.
Speaker 4: So given that, is there a prime time for someone
Speaker 4: who does your job to be brought into the process.
Speaker 4: You don't want to be brought in day of and
Speaker 4: have to commune with the director of their I'm wanted
Speaker 4: to be kind of this thing and then have to
Speaker 4: go figure out what is the best time to get
Speaker 4: involved with something that has perhaps you know, a smattering
Speaker 4: of sexuality, nothing horribly provocative, but somebody is going to
Speaker 4: have partial nudity on a set and they're going to
Speaker 4: be in the bed together, and there's going to be
Speaker 4: some simulation of intimacy. When when is the right time
Speaker 4: to bring you in and start these conversations.
Speaker 6: The right time is in pre production, as you're reading
Speaker 6: through the script, as you're saying that there's into we
Speaker 6: teach this the very clear intimate scene, the one that
Speaker 6: you just described, there's partial nudity, there's an intimate scene.
Speaker 6: People are having sex in a bed. You need an
Speaker 6: intimacy coordinator for that, particularly because there's going to be
Speaker 6: nudity and simulated sex riders that need to be developed
Speaker 6: and signed before that. So there's paperwork, which is a
Speaker 6: big part of our you know, it's interesting, Like the
Speaker 6: tip of the iceberg is of our job is that
Speaker 6: we get to be on set working with actors. That's
Speaker 6: really fun. There's a whole administrative side to what we
Speaker 6: do as well. There's conversations with the director to understand
Speaker 6: their creative vision, what they want. We speak with actors
Speaker 6: to understand what their boundaries are. Hey, this is the
Speaker 6: creative vision. How do you feel about it? So pre
Speaker 6: production is really the best time to get involved. And
Speaker 6: you mentioned I wanted to go back to the Michael
Speaker 6: Douglas thing, you know, people.
Speaker 7: Who didn't who didn't come up.
Speaker 6: I mean, look, it's an a long ass career, you know,
Speaker 6: like amazing performer and long, very long career, and you know,
Speaker 6: I mean, yeah it, you know. And so I feel like,
Speaker 6: if you don't know what the role is, it's hard
Speaker 6: to just say yes, and you feel like, hey, this
Speaker 6: person might get in the way of what is happening,
Speaker 6: then yes, why why would you not have resistance to that?
Speaker 6: But when people start to learn that we can be
Speaker 6: very valuable collaborators in the same way that a stunt
Speaker 6: coordinator or a fight director can really bring out the
Speaker 6: spectrum of what's possible in a scene. And so, and
Speaker 6: if you ask anyone on a set what is sex
Speaker 6: to you? And what is sex to you or someone else,
Speaker 6: You're going to come up with really different answers to that.
Speaker 6: And so when we can start telling stories of intimacy
Speaker 6: and of sexuality and really represent like the spectrum of
Speaker 6: what human sexuality is, which is vast, I feel like
Speaker 6: we can really start to see humanity in a better, different,
Speaker 6: more elevated light.
Speaker 7: And I really feel like it's a healing practice.
Speaker 1: What what do you say?
Speaker 4: And this used to I don't I can't imagine this
Speaker 4: comment would be made anymore, but it was certainly prevalent
Speaker 4: when I was in my thirties and forties. Where actor
Speaker 4: or actress reads the scene, they can clearly see what
Speaker 4: it is. It says, she takes off her clothes, she
Speaker 4: reveals her thing, they climb into bed and ba but
Speaker 4: and it describes a certain kind of intimacy.
Speaker 1: And you get there on the day and one of the.
Speaker 4: Actors, now clearly you would have gotten to them prior
Speaker 4: to this, but one of the actors decides on the
Speaker 4: day maybe even after you've they're not as comfortable as
Speaker 4: they thought they would be, and the producer or the
Speaker 4: director is suddenly going.
Speaker 1: For God's sakes, you read this. This is not a surprise.
Speaker 1: You read it. You saw what it was. You took
Speaker 1: the job. First of all.
Speaker 4: Does that situation still come up? And if it does,
Speaker 4: how do you what do you do with that?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 7: Absolutely? I mean, for.
Speaker 1: God's sakes, you read this. There's not a surprise. You
Speaker 1: read it.
Speaker 5: You saw what it was.
Speaker 4: You took the job, first of all. Does that situation
Speaker 4: still come up? And if it does, how do you
Speaker 4: what do you do with that?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 7: Absolutely?
Speaker 6: I mean imagine you read it on paper and sounded great,
Speaker 6: and then you got to set and someone's given you
Speaker 6: the sorry, yes, someone's giving you the creeps on set,
Speaker 6: or suddenly you have a bad feeling about this, or
Speaker 6: suddenly you said yes because of the role, but then
Speaker 6: when you got to set, you think, you know, maybe
Speaker 6: I don't want to do this. And so the actor
Speaker 6: has the right to revoke their consent at any time,
Speaker 6: even after a writer assigned. After the writer is signed,
Speaker 6: the production will also then have the right to double
Speaker 6: the actor, but the double cannot do more than what
Speaker 6: the act or agreed to do.
Speaker 5: Oh that really, yeah, that's what I got a belt.
Speaker 1: That is really so I'll do this.
Speaker 5: But the scene it's there, I can't then go all right,
Speaker 5: But there are still a little more because their own.
Speaker 6: Think about this scenario. You're on set, someone someone new
Speaker 6: you know, is on set. It's really exciting. They're working
Speaker 6: with Jason. This is the most exciting scene. This is like,
Speaker 6: you know, they're high suddenly from like you know, oxytocin
Speaker 6: flowing through their through their veins. They're just so excited
Speaker 6: to be here. And in the moment, in this heightened
Speaker 6: state of excitement, they say, you know what, I wasn't
Speaker 6: comfortable taking off my clothes, but screw it. Now I'm
Speaker 6: comfortable taking off my clothes. And you're like great, and
Speaker 6: you shoot the scene and then they put their clothes
Speaker 6: on and they go off into the trailer.
Speaker 1: Like what the fuck did I do?
Speaker 7: What did I just do?
Speaker 6: So that's why in a very calm you know, usually
Speaker 6: on a zoom, sometimes in person a conversation, we'll talk
Speaker 6: through it and an actor might say I'm comfortable with it,
Speaker 6: and I say great, if you change your mind, let
Speaker 6: me know, and we'll all have a conversation discreetly, or
Speaker 6: I'll approach the director and we'll come up with a
Speaker 6: different way to do it. It's going to maintain the
Speaker 6: integrity of the story and slightly alter what we have
Speaker 6: to do. And there's so many tips and tricks that
Speaker 6: we have. There's so many things we can do just
Speaker 6: framing up a little bit, or you.
Speaker 7: Know, shooting, there's just so many Uh. Typically yes, but
Speaker 7: it really depends on the creative team.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 6: Some creative teams are like, you know, let the we'll
Speaker 6: handle that stuff.
Speaker 1: You just let us know.
Speaker 6: Other creative teams are like, yes, please, we really want
Speaker 6: to collaborate with you.
Speaker 7: So I've really had a wide spectrum.
Speaker 1: You're a lovely guy.
Speaker 4: I'm meeting you for the first time, and now you're
Speaker 4: going to start a conversation with me where I'm going
Speaker 4: to reveal to you somehow I'm going to entrust you
Speaker 4: with my comfort levels about all kinds of things. I
Speaker 4: don't know that that's the most natural, you know, I
Speaker 4: don't know why people give up that. So there has
Speaker 4: to be a kind of, for lack of a better word,
Speaker 4: a kind of seduction that you are able to do that,
Speaker 4: you get an actor a performer to trust that they
Speaker 4: are safe with you. But you know, I mean, I
Speaker 4: just can't imagine that's always a terribly easy process to establish.
Speaker 7: It's not.
Speaker 6: It's not always easy, and some actors are more resistant
Speaker 6: to it. And that's fine. Yeah, And I'm really at
Speaker 6: the end of the day, we're there to make sure
Speaker 6: that the actors feel safe and seen, heard and all
Speaker 6: of the things that they want to do, and the
Speaker 6: director feels seen and heard in the creative that they
Speaker 6: want to get and that we leave set with a
Speaker 6: good fist bump or a high five and say, hey,
Speaker 6: great job, that was amazing.
Speaker 5: High five made me uncomfortable. Could you do me a favor?
Speaker 5: Because you're really interesting? But I want to hear it
Speaker 5: because I wonder how you engage. So Jason's about to
Speaker 5: do a nudsday and he's a little uncomfortable. Just if
Speaker 5: you don't mind, because you're not talking through what would
Speaker 5: you I just want to hear what that comedy.
Speaker 6: So we'd meet on Zoom and I'd say, hey, Jason,
Speaker 6: it's great to meet you.
Speaker 7: I'm a big fan. You've brought a lot of joy
Speaker 7: to the world.
Speaker 8: Finish thought, okay, I'd say, you know, scene fifty three,
Speaker 8: you've got Jason steps out of the shower, or your
Speaker 8: character steps out of the shower.
Speaker 6: That's another thing. We'll talk about the character, not the person.
Speaker 6: And that's a nice trick because it's not you that's
Speaker 6: doing it.
Speaker 1: It's the character.
Speaker 5: I want.
Speaker 6: It's the character that's doing And so your character steps
Speaker 6: out of the shower, drops your towel. The creative vision
Speaker 6: is that we see you from behind and you climb
Speaker 6: into bed with your partner, you start kissing, and you
Speaker 6: make love. How are you feeling about that?
Speaker 1: Go ahead, and you know what the comedy is?
Speaker 5: No, I want to I want the comedy.
Speaker 1: The comedy answers who's the partner?
Speaker 4: My answer would probably be to you, I am more
Speaker 4: comfortable portraying nudity and sexuality for its comedic.
Speaker 1: Values than I am for its intimate values.
Speaker 7: Amazing. And I'm typing notes, I'm saying to type notes.
Speaker 4: And you know, and I will probably say I'm not
Speaker 4: comfortable showing my genitals.
Speaker 5: I'm not.
Speaker 1: You know, how do I look on the day what.
Speaker 7: I'm typing notes?
Speaker 6: Yeah, not comfortable showing genitals? And how about rear nudity.
Speaker 6: How does that feel for you? It's a comedic moment,
Speaker 6: it's your I have.
Speaker 4: If I have a good glute day the day before,
Speaker 4: I've done it, so you know it's it's clearly. I mean,
Speaker 4: I did a movie where I played a character that
Speaker 4: was dressed for quite a long sequence in merely a
Speaker 4: flowery hat, woman's high heels and an apron and I
Speaker 4: was shot from behind an awful lot and it was,
Speaker 4: you know, again one of the pantheon of uncomfortable days
Speaker 4: that I did it.
Speaker 5: So when you were doing that, how did you feel
Speaker 5: you're going to and that you're into it? But how
Speaker 5: do you think it was?
Speaker 4: Probably it was love velor compassion, And I'm trying to
Speaker 4: remember it's like the early aughts, you know.
Speaker 5: Were there primes that was really tough. It's always tough because.
Speaker 7: Did someone give you a robe in between takes?
Speaker 3: Sure?
Speaker 5: Okay, that's yeah, but you never betray that. You always
Speaker 5: want to please everybody and make it feel okay.
Speaker 1: Yes to a degree.
Speaker 4: Now, Also, most of my career has been the kind
Speaker 4: of intimacy that I've been asked to portray is for
Speaker 4: comedic value, which I'm.
Speaker 1: Again more comfortable with that than not.
Speaker 4: But I remember doing a movie where I won't name
Speaker 4: the actress, but she and I had a brief bed
Speaker 4: scene and the director was hell bent on her being
Speaker 4: topless in the scene, and I guess she had signed
Speaker 4: some paperwork for it.
Speaker 1: And I happened to know this actress a little bit,
Speaker 1: and she went, can you help me? I went, what
Speaker 1: I really don't want. I don't want my us to
Speaker 1: be seen.
Speaker 4: I went, let's try, And so I found ways to
Speaker 4: make sure that my arm was always draped across her
Speaker 4: or you know. And as far as I know that
Speaker 4: we got away with it. I think we kept her
Speaker 4: from being exposed in the way she didn't want to.
Speaker 4: But that scene, because it was not for comedy, was
Speaker 4: among the more uncomfortable things.
Speaker 6: So, Jason, you're a mention putting your arm around her,
Speaker 6: and that's why we're there.
Speaker 4: Well, I got to tell you, see, this is the
Speaker 4: thing for me, what makes what you do and the
Speaker 4: moments that you're asked to come in on a film
Speaker 4: for me so hard is that when you said, well,
Speaker 4: let's look at this through the character's eyes. But when
Speaker 4: I as an audience member in counter nudity or intimacy,
Speaker 4: in any stage play camp, I.
Speaker 1: Immediately go right out.
Speaker 4: It immediately takes me out because I go to Okay,
Speaker 4: this is the one thing that the actor acting is
Speaker 4: make believe I'm not a hit man, I don't work
Speaker 4: for the mafia, and I'm not married to Beverly the Angelo.
Speaker 4: I'm acting that. But if I have to start being
Speaker 4: intimate with better Beverly the Angelo, Beverly, I just use
Speaker 4: you as your name. I hope that's okay.
Speaker 5: I like that you leaned in.
Speaker 4: Then there is something that is now it's me and Beverlys.
Speaker 4: It's not character goes away in some ways, not completely.
Speaker 4: You're telling a certain kind of story with those people.
Speaker 4: But that is a level of like if I if
Speaker 4: I shoot a guy in a movie, I didn't really
Speaker 4: shoot him, but if I put my hand on somebody's breast,
Speaker 4: I put my hand, My hand went on somebody's breast,
Speaker 4: and so I'm always taken out.
Speaker 1: I go right out of it.
Speaker 5: But there's more, are we right? There's much more nudity.
Speaker 5: And I don't know if it's because international, but there's
Speaker 5: much more nudity than I've ever seen before on television
Speaker 5: and streaming.
Speaker 7: Yes, there's yeah, there's a lot more leaning.
Speaker 6: Yeah, so there's also a lot more nuance in the
Speaker 6: type of intimacy and the type of sexuality that's depicted.
Speaker 6: In the last ten years, we see so much more
Speaker 6: and so much more, you know, just so many more
Speaker 6: facets of the what I was saying earlier, just the
Speaker 6: perspective of what human sexuality is.
Speaker 4: My younger son as a young man who's out in
Speaker 4: the dating world, you know, and from my understanding is
Speaker 4: it's madness out there. Have you learned anything that translates
Speaker 4: into the real world of people meeting people and navigating
Speaker 4: the beginnings of intimate relationships so that there is a
Speaker 4: reasonable assurance that everyone's in the same place.
Speaker 1: Is there a method for that?
Speaker 6: You know, we teach in our course, and all intimacy
Speaker 6: coordinator courses teach consent frameworks. And when you study this
Speaker 6: and you get deep into what consent is that it
Speaker 6: needs to be freely given, it needs to be reversible,
Speaker 6: it needs to be in formed, it needs to be enthusiastic,
Speaker 6: it needs to be specific. You start to and that's
Speaker 6: just for like interpersonal consent. When you're working in film
Speaker 6: and television, it's your job and so you don't have
Speaker 6: to be enthusiastic about this intimate scene that you're doing,
Speaker 6: but you have to be informed about it, and you
Speaker 6: have to know specifically what's going to happen, and you
Speaker 6: have to be able to participate in the you know,
Speaker 6: in the negotiation of what it is that happens. And
Speaker 6: so when you start to get into you know, consent
Speaker 6: practices and understanding people, and also consent can't happen under
Speaker 6: you know, under the influence, which a lot of you
Speaker 6: know days do have righter the end right, and so
Speaker 6: if someone is inebriated in some way like, that's not
Speaker 6: you know that there it's not clear consent, you know.
Speaker 5: And so.
Speaker 6: Not to sound too lofty, but studying to become an
Speaker 6: intimacy coordinator is actually it's a very life changing journey.
Speaker 6: And we've had a lot of trainees we've said this
Speaker 6: has actually completely changed my life. It's changed my relationship
Speaker 6: with my partner, with my husband, with my wife because
Speaker 6: of the awareness, yeah, the awareness, and also we teach
Speaker 6: so much about what the spectrum of sexuality is and
Speaker 6: someone's like, you know, I realized something about myself that
Speaker 6: I didn't know before. I'm attracted to this I'm not
Speaker 6: attracted to that where I just thought I need to
Speaker 6: be attracted to this thing, because that's what culture tells me.
Speaker 1: Boy, you said one second, if I don't pay, I'm
Speaker 1: going to come as this.
Speaker 5: Really we got to do this, and I should continue
Speaker 5: to wrap this up by your painting. Of course you
Speaker 5: had a doctor's appoint me. Obviously a little bit of
Speaker 5: a large prostate thing, I'm guessing, but thank you. Really
Speaker 5: really fascinating what you do in the fact that you train,
Speaker 5: you train people to do this. And he's back again.
Speaker 5: I apologize.
Speaker 1: I want to say.
Speaker 5: It takes him quite quite a while.
Speaker 1: I can hear you.
Speaker 5: We wrapped it up. Okay, you just knocked the key light.
Speaker 5: That's okay, That's what I'm saying there now you look
Speaker 5: all right. I heard everything you said.
Speaker 1: Well, and as a as a member of SHAG after
Speaker 1: I am bringing you up. You talk about you prostating
Speaker 1: that is my intimate organ.
Speaker 5: Do me a favorite, do it public because we get
Speaker 5: some attention, and thank you, Thank you. Man.
Speaker 4: Don't don't don't coordinate me. I'll let this man coordinate me.
Speaker 4: You're not in charge of me. You're not the boss
Speaker 4: of me.
Speaker 1: Thank you.
Speaker 5: You hude, thank you, sure, pleasure.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry I missed the variant.
Speaker 6: It was an honor of my life.
Speaker 1: So first of all, let me just say fabulous, what
Speaker 1: a great I love what he does. I love everything
Speaker 1: he had to say.
Speaker 4: Is there any other podcast let me just ask you this,
Speaker 4: because you're the podcast mavin Is there any other podcast
Speaker 4: where one of the hosts has to take a pee
Speaker 4: break and the other host just keeps going where they
Speaker 4: don't edit it out, where they don't pretend that I
Speaker 4: was just here the whole time. You had four hundred
Speaker 4: and seven podcast instances of your nick really where they
Speaker 4: went on? Do you think they had a coordinator? Maybe
Speaker 4: four eighty because that's pretty in it.
Speaker 5: Maybe for twenty Well, you know what, we can also
Speaker 5: wire the bathroom so you can continue. I heard enough
Speaker 5: coding here. Wow, help me, I can't pee? I mean, yeah, the.
Speaker 4: Reason I asked you who about the you know, the
Speaker 4: practical advice. I was talking to a coordinator one time
Speaker 4: and they said something interesting. They said, you know, in
Speaker 4: this world of modern dating, and we were talking about
Speaker 4: how do you know you have consent? And they said,
Speaker 4: you have to get rid of the mindset that you
Speaker 4: and I grew up.
Speaker 1: With which was running the basis.
Speaker 4: Oh, I got the first base, I got the second base,
Speaker 4: I got the third base. I was on the day
Speaker 4: they got the second base, and they said, that is
Speaker 4: where you get people who are caught up in the
Speaker 4: passion of a moment and they kind of they do,
Speaker 4: they do more than they're going to be comfortable with
Speaker 4: the next day. And that coordinator said to me, a
Speaker 4: really good practice for now is if you're on a
Speaker 4: date and it's becoming intimate and you're kissing, you know,
Speaker 4: they said, just save enjoy that savor.
Speaker 1: Don't push it to be the next thing.
Speaker 4: It's the hormone that runs away with you, especially with
Speaker 4: someone you are just beginning to I.
Speaker 5: Never had that problem because a large nose, pimples and
Speaker 5: a pompadoor the only thing, Oh God, are usually she
Speaker 5: pictures me at eighteen nineteen twenty. Yeah, you just say,
Speaker 5: because then I kind of there's a minute in time,
Speaker 5: so you know what I mean. But yeah, the pimples
Speaker 5: went away, and then I got buffed for a little bit,
Speaker 5: uh not lasted not long.
Speaker 1: And then yeah, I always tell the story.
Speaker 4: I had braces from the time I was eight until
Speaker 4: I was eight nine years so seventeen right, eight to seventeen.
Speaker 1: They come off. I go to the gym because.
Speaker 4: I got a date that night, and I take a
Speaker 4: shower at the gym and I'm tweling off my hair
Speaker 4: on I realized for the first time I have a
Speaker 4: bolt spot the size of a dixie cup at the time,
Speaker 4: Are you kidding?
Speaker 1: I don't get a day. Yes, and there you go, David,
Speaker 1: google him.
Speaker 3: No one I.
Speaker 1: Would rather be more intimate with than you. Was that should?
Speaker 1: That was that? Should? I not have said that? By God?
Speaker 5: Was that too? I might have might have heard a
Speaker 5: weird very neat if something happened. Something happen so.
Speaker 4: Well, first of all, I think I want to be
Speaker 4: a trailblazer as a prostate ordator.
Speaker 1: I think I think Hollywood.
Speaker 3: Can could use that.
Speaker 1: David, what else you got for it?
Speaker 3: Well, that was a big thing. I know you have
Speaker 3: a big, big game that you wanted to play.
Speaker 1: I have a little game for you.
Speaker 5: I gotta quick.
Speaker 1: I got a quick game. I'm gonna na.
Speaker 4: Yeah, hold on, Peter, let me check you. Let me
Speaker 4: check you our present coordinator.
Speaker 5: I got a Jack Peter today. He said, I'm good, okay, good,
Speaker 5: all right?
Speaker 1: I'm going to be I'm an actor and actress.
Speaker 4: You tell me if they have ever appeared nude in
Speaker 4: a film, television show, or stage play.
Speaker 1: All right, all right, the nude being like full nudity,
Speaker 1: like some degree of exposure. Samuel L.
Speaker 5: Jackson, Damuel Jackson nude. I bet he has.
Speaker 3: No, I don't think so.
Speaker 1: He has never appeared nude. Daniel Radcliffe, Oh yeah, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: I'm Broadway.
Speaker 4: Very good, Peter, very very good. Anna Kendrick, No, David.
Speaker 1: No, no, Anna Kendrick is absolutely will not do it.
Speaker 3: Chris Pine, Yes, boy, what.
Speaker 5: I'm gonna say now, I'm gonna say no, just to
Speaker 5: say no.
Speaker 4: It was Chris Pine in Outlaw King Full front of
Speaker 4: wh Julia.
Speaker 5: Roberts, No, in the body double for Pretty Woman, you
Speaker 5: know that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, No, you're absolutely right. She has never appeared in nude.
Speaker 4: Jessica Alba No, no, no, she absolutely does not.
Speaker 5: Mark Ruffalo yes'. Mark was making now somewhere.
Speaker 1: A movie called in the cut.
Speaker 5: He looks like a guy who says, can I write
Speaker 5: this nude?
Speaker 1: YEA Oscarion, Yes, yes, I think I've seen him.
Speaker 4: Oscar Isaacon scenes from a Marriage Thompson, Yes, yes, Emma Thompson,
Speaker 4: Good luck to you, Leo Grande, and our final one,
Speaker 4: Megan Fox.
Speaker 5: Just because because you would think yes, I'm gonna say no.
Speaker 4: Wait wait wait wait, but just before you do that, Peter,
Speaker 4: we've got I think we've gotten him all right now,
Speaker 4: so this is for a perfect game.
Speaker 1: I thinks somebody missed on miss.
Speaker 3: Oh did you?
Speaker 5: But it should be a yes, but I'll be guessing.
Speaker 4: You know, I'm gonna say a no for her because
Speaker 4: she had the Transformers experience she has.
Speaker 1: Not done there.
Speaker 5: You go very well playing boys, and thank you for
Speaker 5: the quich and thank you for being part of Really No, Really.
Speaker 1: No Really?
Speaker 3: How's another episode of Really No Really? He comes to
Speaker 3: a close. I know you're wondering.
Speaker 2: Has an X rated film ever won an Academy Award
Speaker 2: for Best Motion Picture. We'll hold your horses, Cowboy. I'll
Speaker 2: answer that in a moment, but first let's thank our guests.
Speaker 2: You who to Duenyas. For more info on his work
Speaker 2: as a coordinator, visit his website yeahudah Intimacy dot film.
Speaker 2: For his directing experience, you can visit Xxxhuda dot com
Speaker 2: and on Instagram, he is at underscore x Underscore x
Speaker 2: Underscore x Underscore y Underscore. Find all pertinent links in
Speaker 2: our show notes, our little show hangs out on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, and.
Speaker 3: Threads at really No Really podcast And.
Speaker 2: Of course you can share your thoughts and feedback with.
Speaker 3: Us online at reallynoreli dot com.
Speaker 2: If you have a really some amazing factor story that
Speaker 2: boggles your mind, share it with us, and if we
Speaker 2: use it, we will send you a little gift. Nothing
Speaker 2: life changing, obviously, but it's the thought that counts. Check
Speaker 2: out our full episodes on YouTube, hit that subscribe button
Speaker 2: and take that bell so you're updated when we release
Speaker 2: new videos and episodes, which we do each Tuesday. So
Speaker 2: listen and follow us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,
Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: And now the answer to the.
Speaker 2: Question has an X rated film ever won the Academy
Speaker 2: Award for Best Picture, Well, I can tell you that
Speaker 2: the sweet spot for Best Picture winners seems to be
Speaker 2: the R rating. So many R rated films have nabbed
Speaker 2: the top honor, including The Godfather, Platoon, rain Man, The
Speaker 2: Silence of the Lambs, Shindler's List, Glady Eat, No Country
Speaker 2: for Old Men, and twelve years of sleep. So clearly, war, murder, blood,
Speaker 2: and human suffering are all viable for the Oscars. Also,
Speaker 2: somewhat notably, only one G rated picture has ever won
Speaker 2: Best Film. That would be the nineteenth sixty eight film
Speaker 2: version of the Broadway musical Oliver, as adapted from the
Speaker 2: original Charles Dickens novel. So R rated and g rated
Speaker 2: made the cut. But what about X Well, Yes, one
Speaker 2: X rated film did in fact win Best Picture. One
Speaker 2: year after Oliver brought home those top honors for G
Speaker 2: rated films, The X rated feature Midnight Cowboys starring Dustin
Speaker 2: Hoffman and John Voight, won the Best Picture award.
Speaker 3: In nineteen sixty nine. Nice.
Speaker 2: The film is about a touching bromance between Joe Buck,
Speaker 2: a Texas dishwasher who moves to New York to seduce
Speaker 2: his way into the heart of a wealthy dowager, only
Speaker 2: to find himself trying to survive alongside a colorful street hustler.
Speaker 3: Named ratso Rizzo.
Speaker 2: It's the stuff Hollywood dreams are made of, and awarded
Speaker 2: for X extremely rarely really and a really is production
Speaker 2: of Blaise Entertainment