WEBVTT - Intimacy Coordinators: Protectors or Saboteurs? 0:00:03.680 --> 0:00:04.640 Now really. 0:00:06.680 --> 0:00:11.200 Really real hello, and welcome to really know really with 0:00:11.320 --> 0:00:14.160 Jayson Alexander and Peter Tilden, who remind you that subscribing 0:00:14.200 --> 0:00:16.959 to our show is one of the sexiest things you 0:00:17.000 --> 0:00:19.560 can possibly do, all by yourself. 0:00:19.239 --> 0:00:21.680 So hit that subscribe button slowly. 0:00:22.200 --> 0:00:24.440 And speaking of sex, there seems to be a whole 0:00:24.520 --> 0:00:27.120 lot of it going on in both film and stage. 0:00:27.320 --> 0:00:30.639 This year's Oscars feature two films where sexuality and nudity 0:00:30.680 --> 0:00:34.600 play a major part, Anora and The Substance. But sexuality 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:37.320 in cinema is not new. What has changed is the 0:00:37.320 --> 0:00:40.960 film and stage industry's understanding of the complex and intimate 0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:43.839 demands it makes on the actors who must perform it. 0:00:44.000 --> 0:00:45.519 The me Too movement brought. 0:00:45.360 --> 0:00:48.400 Increased scrutiny to on screen contact, and with that a 0:00:48.440 --> 0:00:52.920 relatively new position called an intimacy coordinator was born. Part coach, 0:00:53.000 --> 0:00:57.120 part choreographer, and often part therapists, Intimacy coordinators are now 0:00:57.160 --> 0:01:00.000 tasked with helping assist the artistic vision of the intimate 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:04.319 story while providing the guidance and communication between producers, directors, 0:01:04.319 --> 0:01:07.679 and performers. And despite how seemingly obvious the need for 0:01:07.720 --> 0:01:11.640 them may be, they are often regarded as superfluous, unnecessary, 0:01:11.959 --> 0:01:12.720 or irksome. 0:01:13.080 --> 0:01:14.480 Really no, really. 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:17.360 Today the guys talk to Yehuda Duenya, a sag after, 0:01:17.440 --> 0:01:21.880 a credited intimacy coordinator who provides full service intimacy coordination 0:01:22.040 --> 0:01:25.080 for film, TV and theater productions. They'll discuss what the 0:01:25.160 --> 0:01:28.000 job actually entails, what the qualifications are to become and 0:01:28.120 --> 0:01:31.199 I see what the challenges can be. And most importantly, 0:01:31.400 --> 0:01:33.479 we may discover why it is that our own Jason 0:01:33.520 --> 0:01:36.360 Alexander has appeared so often in the bluff. We'll also 0:01:36.400 --> 0:01:39.560 find out how he feels about it. Now here hopefully 0:01:39.560 --> 0:01:43.160 with clothes are Jason and Peter this season? 0:01:43.200 --> 0:01:46.360 In particular, the films that I've seen that have had 0:01:46.400 --> 0:01:48.760 the most you know sort of people are talking. 0:01:48.560 --> 0:01:51.320 About there's a lot of sexuality in these films. 0:01:51.520 --> 0:01:54.640 What like I saw Anora the other day and it's 0:01:54.640 --> 0:01:56.840 and it's about a sex worker and there's a lot 0:01:56.880 --> 0:02:02.440 of sexual no clothing, didn't I don't know where like 0:02:02.480 --> 0:02:07.120 you know, well, please you're Hollywood adjacent, not even but 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:08.400 there's a lot going on. 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:10.480 Now. I have done some stuff. 0:02:10.320 --> 0:02:12.760 Oh that's right, and love, valor, compassion. 0:02:13.320 --> 0:02:16.360 Passion, but even on Asha Bob Patterson we did make it. 0:02:16.400 --> 0:02:19.880 That's right, naked standing there in front of forty guys, 0:02:19.960 --> 0:02:21.640 naked with basically. 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:25.280 A leaf, and you know, to your credit, and it 0:02:25.320 --> 0:02:26.720 was not comfortable. 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:28.640 To your credit. And I, you know what, in thinking 0:02:28.680 --> 0:02:30.560 about this later on now that you bring that up, 0:02:31.120 --> 0:02:33.720 I felt you. And I never said this here because 0:02:33.720 --> 0:02:35.840 I know who comedic it was, and because you're chunking 0:02:35.880 --> 0:02:38.720 and it's funny and you're uncomfortable and you play uncomfortable funny. 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:41.160 I never had a discussion with you, and I really 0:02:41.160 --> 0:02:44.919 did feel bad afterwards that I never asked you, are 0:02:44.919 --> 0:02:48.600 you uncomfortable doing it? Are you incremfortable? But no, I 0:02:48.639 --> 0:02:50.200 never did. And and you know what I take. I 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:52.519 always assume with you, you go for the even great 0:02:52.840 --> 0:02:55.320 you do comedy, You'll do whatever gets to laugh. But 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:58.320 I should have said, are you okay doing I know 0:02:58.360 --> 0:03:00.360 you would have said yes, and you did it, but 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:02.800 it's still yet a lot of people on that set. 0:03:03.400 --> 0:03:06.359 I'm well away, and this intimacy in movies. Right now, 0:03:06.400 --> 0:03:09.680 the big story is Blake Lively and Justin Baldini, who 0:03:09.720 --> 0:03:14.720 was in the movie, directed the movie, and produced the movie. 0:03:15.080 --> 0:03:18.520 They're going back and forth with lawsuits, saying that he 0:03:18.680 --> 0:03:22.720 was even before shooting he inserted improvised with tuitor sexual 0:03:22.720 --> 0:03:26.000 content and there was specifically, and his lawyers released the 0:03:26.040 --> 0:03:29.000 scene where they were dancing and he was kissing her 0:03:29.080 --> 0:03:31.520 neck to doing stuff dialog and one of the intimacy 0:03:31.680 --> 0:03:35.720 or people who watched this comment and said it looked 0:03:35.720 --> 0:03:38.600 like they were negotiating the stuff as the scene was happening. 0:03:39.240 --> 0:03:42.000 He claims that he had a meeting with an intimacy 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:44.320 coordinator before the movie and she didn't make the meeting 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:47.120 that she said, I don't need to come to the meeting. 0:03:47.600 --> 0:03:50.279 She's saying she had to beg to get an emascy coordinator. 0:03:50.440 --> 0:03:54.040 And then somebody else said, usually with dance scenes, it's 0:03:54.200 --> 0:03:58.880 nudity at sexistists. Usually with dance scenes, even though they're close, 0:03:59.360 --> 0:04:01.640 you don't need an is the coordinator. So we figured, well, 0:04:01.640 --> 0:04:04.920 we're in New Turf. Yeah, and I got a lot 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:07.160 of questions. And then you're dealing with people who have 0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:11.040 different level of what they perceived to be on car. 0:04:11.080 --> 0:04:16.000 You don't know you're working from multiple people at the 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:19.279 same time. You're working for the producer, you're working for 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:21.120 the director who has a vision of how this is 0:04:21.120 --> 0:04:23.680 supposed to go on, and then you're working with four 0:04:23.960 --> 0:04:26.520 and with the people who have to execute it, who 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:27.240 will bring their own is. 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:29.880 And there's been pushback, like Michael Douglas said, you don't 0:04:29.920 --> 0:04:32.200 need one because what it does is that usurp the director. 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:35.000 Director should be doing this and getting it. Jennifer Aniston 0:04:35.120 --> 0:04:37.280 was asked when she worked with John ham on a 0:04:37.320 --> 0:04:40.200 second team during the morning show I get one. She said, 0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:43.279 come on, we're both professionals, and John and I discussed 0:04:43.279 --> 0:04:45.719 what we were comfortable with or not. But not everybody 0:04:45.720 --> 0:04:47.800 comes from that same place or it doesn't have traumas 0:04:47.800 --> 0:04:48.279 in the past. 0:04:48.480 --> 0:04:52.239 Second, and I will tell you I've never directed sex, 0:04:52.360 --> 0:04:57.200 but I directed some partial nudity and intimacy. 0:04:57.279 --> 0:04:59.480 I mean two people in a bed in a film. 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:03.520 I have never been more uncomfortable in my life. 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:07.159 And I'm sure and there's no there's no You walk 0:05:07.200 --> 0:05:09.359 into a set man and you're it's like when you 0:05:09.440 --> 0:05:11.000 just signed and you're a guest director. 0:05:11.560 --> 0:05:13.800 It's uncomfortably in that I was the guest director. We 0:05:13.839 --> 0:05:16.520 didn't have a guest but again, new actor or whatever. 0:05:16.560 --> 0:05:18.680 You're walking into a culture you don't know, so you 0:05:18.720 --> 0:05:19.839 don't know when you're walking into a. 0:05:19.839 --> 0:05:21.880 Set Listen, it doesn't. It's as simple as this. 0:05:21.960 --> 0:05:23.880 How many times on the TV show or a film 0:05:23.960 --> 0:05:27.040 or on a stage play do you see two actors 0:05:27.400 --> 0:05:31.000 playing they're a married couple, they casually kiss each other 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:36.600 good morning. Yeah, I don't normally kiss that person. So 0:05:36.680 --> 0:05:39.800 if you don't know, there's a whole, really relatively new 0:05:40.040 --> 0:05:45.080 job of intimacy coordinator into me intimacy director, and we 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:48.880 have in our studio today mister Uhuda Duenyas, who is 0:05:48.920 --> 0:05:53.680 a sag After accredited intimacy coordinator who provides full service 0:05:53.720 --> 0:05:58.600 intimacy coordination for film, TV and theater. Right, he's also 0:05:58.600 --> 0:06:00.920 an award winning experiential director, and I want to find 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:04.360 out what that means, transdisciplinary artist working, as he says, 0:06:04.360 --> 0:06:08.960 at the intersections of intimacy, experiential design, performance, film and sound. 0:06:09.320 --> 0:06:11.880 And sure, here we go another one another, every winner, 0:06:11.960 --> 0:06:17.280 Emmy winner, Emmy winner. They are all Emmy winners. 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:16.520 M Webby Awards. 0:06:16.520 --> 0:06:18.960 I don't have a Webby Award, eight cons Lions Awards, 0:06:18.960 --> 0:06:19.400 I don't have. 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:21.440 Any of those. You know how many commercials I've done. 0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:22.120 I don't have a Cleo. 0:06:22.200 --> 0:06:25.159 He's got eleven Kleos, two Facebook Awards, I'm not even 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:27.280 on Facebook and Albi. 0:06:27.000 --> 0:06:29.719 Award and then the other among all most others. 0:06:29.800 --> 0:06:32.360 Right, it's a complete for a guy I'm supposed to be. 0:06:34.040 --> 0:06:35.360 I'm already feeling a little. 0:06:35.120 --> 0:06:39.200 Bit off, but you got let's welcome you, Huda Duenas. Hello, 0:06:39.360 --> 0:06:41.919 so for coming in and congratulations on all the honors. 0:06:41.960 --> 0:06:44.159 That's a lot. You must be pretty good at what 0:06:44.240 --> 0:06:45.880 you do. How long have you been doing this? 0:06:45.960 --> 0:06:49.680 Yere okay, so I it's great to be here. By 0:06:49.720 --> 0:06:52.679 the way, it's nice to meet you both. I began 0:06:52.760 --> 0:06:55.480 this practice in two thousand and seven directing theater in 0:06:55.520 --> 0:06:59.200 New York, and I was directing shows and you have 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:01.520 the theater back ground in New York. I was directing 0:07:01.560 --> 0:07:06.159 shows that had very extreme content in them, and was 0:07:06.200 --> 0:07:08.360 working with a cast who I really cared about, a 0:07:08.440 --> 0:07:12.200 playwright who I really cared about as well, and wanted 0:07:12.240 --> 0:07:15.680 to make sure that they could do thirty performances and 0:07:15.720 --> 0:07:20.520 not want to tear each other's eyeballs out. And also 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:25.800 it was very traumatic work. I mean, the content of 0:07:25.840 --> 0:07:28.920 the piece was very traumatic and so exactly like you 0:07:28.960 --> 0:07:33.160 said in your intro, we don't know, everyone's got something around, 0:07:33.200 --> 0:07:37.600 some sort of intimacy. Everyone's had an experience, and the 0:07:38.760 --> 0:07:41.760 statistics are pretty staggering about that, about how many people 0:07:41.760 --> 0:07:44.680 have had something happen in their life. And so it 0:07:44.760 --> 0:07:47.559 was very important to me that we approached these scenes 0:07:47.640 --> 0:07:50.480 very carefully and also that we served the play, that 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:52.800 it looked great, and that you know, that we served 0:07:52.800 --> 0:07:58.360 the playwrights vision. So I started developing a system. And 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:00.400 you know, it was two thousand and seven. This was 0:08:00.440 --> 0:08:03.680 I date myself here, but I had my first iPhone 0:08:03.680 --> 0:08:05.679 that year. It was the year the iPhone came out. 0:08:06.280 --> 0:08:09.120 The word consent existed in the dictionary, but it was 0:08:09.200 --> 0:08:11.800 not a word that we were using a lot. And 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:19.360 I just started developing practices of how to slowly get 0:08:19.360 --> 0:08:21.720 the actors to perform these. 0:08:21.560 --> 0:08:26.040 Roles independent, independent, if you had no mentor yet nobody 0:08:26.040 --> 0:08:27.160 else you saw doing. 0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:29.680 It, no, And that was very surprising to me that, 0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:31.800 you know, we also had a slap on the stage, 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:34.720 and so we had to pay a fight director to 0:08:34.760 --> 0:08:37.280 come and teach the actors how to slap each other. 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:39.240 But if we're dealing. 0:08:38.920 --> 0:08:44.920 With non consensual incestual, you know, the scenario was on set, 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:47.199 it was just up to me and the stage manager. 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:48.840 And the actors figure it out. 0:08:49.120 --> 0:08:51.199 And I'd been an actor for many years as well 0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:54.120 and had had some experiences where the director says, you know. 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:57.520 Why don't you aren't you gone the hallway and kiss. 0:08:57.280 --> 0:09:00.640 Each other and kind of figure it out, the figure 0:09:00.679 --> 0:09:03.640 it out, and so you know, to take that back 0:09:03.679 --> 0:09:07.160 into the fight director and fight choreography realm, you. 0:09:07.120 --> 0:09:09.800 Wouldn't say, you know, Peter, why don't you just like. 0:09:10.800 --> 0:09:12.400 Just just just give. 0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:15.120 Jason a nice slap on the face and get it 0:09:15.160 --> 0:09:17.920 over with, you know, And so you know, the damage 0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:20.960 from a slap is different than the damage from putting 0:09:20.960 --> 0:09:26.080 people into uncomfortable situations, but the emotional resonance is very similar. 0:09:26.559 --> 0:09:30.240 And so that was my first experience, and I was 0:09:30.280 --> 0:09:32.240 the director too, And so now we really want to 0:09:32.280 --> 0:09:35.720 separate out the director and intimacy coordinator were there to 0:09:35.800 --> 0:09:40.400 really disrupt the power dynamics that are on sets and. 0:09:40.400 --> 0:09:43.280 For people that you know, if this all sounds alien 0:09:43.360 --> 0:09:45.600 to somebody, I think most people have heard at this 0:09:45.720 --> 0:09:50.640 point intimacy coordinator or director. But if you had to 0:09:50.640 --> 0:09:53.760 define what the parameters of the job are, what what 0:09:54.320 --> 0:09:55.760 you know sort of technically is it. 0:09:55.679 --> 0:10:00.160 Exactly well, we are trained professionals were artists, and we're 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:03.880 there to help facilitate intimate scenes between the creative vision 0:10:04.040 --> 0:10:07.360 of the production and the performers and the cast and 0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:10.080 the cast and the crew as well. And you know 0:10:10.120 --> 0:10:12.440 there's a lot inside of that. But I was about 0:10:12.440 --> 0:10:15.440 to say, is that you never again you just don't 0:10:15.440 --> 0:10:17.280 know where everyone's coming from. You know, it could be 0:10:17.280 --> 0:10:20.280 a crew member watching the traumatic situations could bring up 0:10:20.320 --> 0:10:23.160 something from that. You just don't know what start. 0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:25.240 How much do you know going in? And who hires 0:10:25.240 --> 0:10:29.520 the director, actor, producer And the second part of that 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:32.319 is that the producer hires or the director. What if 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:35.680 the producer is not necessarily on board? Does that cause friction? 0:10:36.960 --> 0:10:38.920 There's a lot of needles to thread and there's a 0:10:38.960 --> 0:10:41.640 few questions in there. So first you should be trained 0:10:41.800 --> 0:10:44.679 in order to do this work. And so I also 0:10:44.760 --> 0:10:48.559 run a training organization or called Cinema the Cinematic Intimacy Artists, 0:10:48.679 --> 0:10:53.400 and we certify were sag After credited to certify intimacy coordinators. 0:10:54.160 --> 0:10:57.240 So training is really key and sag After lays out 0:10:57.840 --> 0:11:00.120 a series of protocols that we should be trained in. 0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:03.079 Yeah, but do you get pushed back because I mentioned 0:11:03.080 --> 0:11:06.000 in the intro. Like Michael Douglas said, he doesn't like 0:11:06.040 --> 0:11:09.480 intimacy coordinators because the control of the film and the 0:11:09.520 --> 0:11:12.480 scene is taken away from the director. Jennifer Andison said, 0:11:12.600 --> 0:11:14.880 we're adults. We know how we know that it was premissure, 0:11:14.920 --> 0:11:18.120 and there's been others who said the same thing. They 0:11:18.120 --> 0:11:19.760 have a choice, I guess not to do it or 0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:22.200 to do it. But do you get pushed back if 0:11:22.240 --> 0:11:25.319 an actor's uncomfortable and wants you there, but the director 0:11:25.320 --> 0:11:27.400 does What if somebody is against it when he's on 0:11:27.480 --> 0:11:29.840 these four its, somebody doesn't understand it. How do you 0:11:29.920 --> 0:11:31.319 balance that once you're brought in. 0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:35.480 Yeah, and you know, I've encountered every permutation of that. 0:11:36.000 --> 0:11:39.000 Everyone's on board. They love it. It's really exciting. It 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:41.720 could be a very joyous, fun experience. Actually, you said 0:11:41.760 --> 0:11:44.000 you were extremely uncomfortable. 0:11:44.040 --> 0:11:46.080 But I needed a fun experience exactly. 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:49.120 You make you know, we build a good space, and 0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:51.200 you know, we build a bubble around the work that 0:11:51.240 --> 0:11:53.400 we're doing close the set. There's a lot of protocols 0:11:53.400 --> 0:11:56.120 that we follow and techniques that we have for icebreakers 0:11:56.120 --> 0:11:58.800 and things to do in the case of like you know, 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:02.280 Jenniferns and John Ham, and I know the intimacy coordinator 0:12:02.480 --> 0:12:06.559 was one of my trainees on that project. They are 0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:10.440 they're professionals, and you know they particularly they didn't want 0:12:10.480 --> 0:12:14.040 one for those particular scenes. But imagine it was a 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:16.880 star at a high level and a you know, day 0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:18.280 player who's coming in for a day. 0:12:18.320 --> 0:12:19.760 There's a real imbalance there. 0:12:20.280 --> 0:12:23.160 And if the star at the higher level is saying 0:12:23.200 --> 0:12:26.480 I'm fine with anything, what position does that put. 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:29.440 The day player in to say, well, if. 0:12:29.360 --> 0:12:31.400 They're fine with everything, then I'm going to be fine 0:12:31.400 --> 0:12:34.080 with everything too, because I don't want to be a problem. 0:12:34.600 --> 0:12:38.079 And so Jennifer Aniston and John Ham, I'm sure they 0:12:38.080 --> 0:12:40.240 are really comfortable with each other, and that's fine. 0:12:40.280 --> 0:12:41.800 You know that there's nothing wrong with that. 0:12:42.000 --> 0:12:44.680 Like they and you know, they have every right to 0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:47.520 that comfort that they have with one another. But we're 0:12:47.520 --> 0:12:49.520 also there for the crew members. We're also there for 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:52.280 the director. What if something goes wrong, you know, like 0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:54.760 there's a lot of things that could happen that we 0:12:54.960 --> 0:12:57.520 are there to help mediate and to mitigate. 0:12:57.600 --> 0:13:01.679 If you're a psychologists, a psychiatrist, I mean, you've got 0:13:01.720 --> 0:13:03.800 to be everything kind of at the moment at any 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:06.280 given moment. So if I can bring up the premise 0:13:06.320 --> 0:13:08.920 that we started with Blake Lively, this thing has gotten 0:13:08.960 --> 0:13:12.800 so ugly when I read that there's two intimacy coordinators 0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:15.400 on that movie, and then again Jason Baldi claimed that 0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:17.600 she didn't come to the meeting and in the dance 0:13:17.640 --> 0:13:20.240 scene they weren't there. And then I saw other intimacy 0:13:20.559 --> 0:13:24.040 coordinators quoted as saying, well, you don't necessarily need one 0:13:24.080 --> 0:13:26.600 in a dance scene, but maybe you do. What's your take. 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:29.079 You probably know much more about this or what happened, 0:13:29.080 --> 0:13:31.359 and probably know the people involved the coordinators. 0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:32.120 I don't know that. 0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:35.760 I don't know the people involved specifically, and it's an 0:13:35.800 --> 0:13:39.600 ongoing litigation, so you know, we can zoom out a 0:13:39.600 --> 0:13:42.440 little bit and just sort of look at the there's 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:46.840 a lot happening in this particular scenario. Having an intimacy 0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:50.120 coordinator and just talking about the realm of what you 0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:53.040 want to do beforehand is just really helpful for everyone. 0:13:53.120 --> 0:13:58.520 It just it smooths you wouldn't go into You wouldn't 0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:02.000 suddenly think like I actually think this actor should fly 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:06.360 out of the second story window, or I just think 0:14:06.360 --> 0:14:08.480 that they should have a fight here and not have 0:14:08.559 --> 0:14:11.640 someone to help coordinate that. That's why we have stunt coordinators, 0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:13.839 That's why we have fight you know, fight directors. 0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:18.400 So given that, is there a prime time for someone 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:20.560 who does your job to be brought into the process. 0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:22.840 You don't want to be brought in day of and 0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:25.480 have to commune with the director of their I'm wanted 0:14:25.520 --> 0:14:26.880 to be kind of this thing and then have to 0:14:26.880 --> 0:14:30.840 go figure out what is the best time to get 0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:36.680 involved with something that has perhaps you know, a smattering 0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:41.000 of sexuality, nothing horribly provocative, but somebody is going to 0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:42.800 have partial nudity on a set and they're going to 0:14:42.840 --> 0:14:44.240 be in the bed together, and there's going to be 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:49.520 some simulation of intimacy. When when is the right time 0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:52.560 to bring you in and start these conversations. 0:14:52.760 --> 0:14:55.960 The right time is in pre production, as you're reading 0:14:55.960 --> 0:14:59.160 through the script, as you're saying that there's into we 0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:02.440 teach this the very clear intimate scene, the one that 0:15:02.480 --> 0:15:06.000 you just described, there's partial nudity, there's an intimate scene. 0:15:06.440 --> 0:15:08.760 People are having sex in a bed. You need an 0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:12.440 intimacy coordinator for that, particularly because there's going to be 0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:16.080 nudity and simulated sex riders that need to be developed 0:15:16.120 --> 0:15:19.080 and signed before that. So there's paperwork, which is a 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:21.280 big part of our you know, it's interesting, Like the 0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:23.600 tip of the iceberg is of our job is that 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:25.720 we get to be on set working with actors. That's 0:15:25.800 --> 0:15:28.920 really fun. There's a whole administrative side to what we 0:15:29.000 --> 0:15:31.840 do as well. There's conversations with the director to understand 0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:34.840 their creative vision, what they want. We speak with actors 0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:36.880 to understand what their boundaries are. Hey, this is the 0:15:36.960 --> 0:15:41.240 creative vision. How do you feel about it? So pre 0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:43.520 production is really the best time to get involved. And 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:45.160 you mentioned I wanted to go back to the Michael 0:15:45.160 --> 0:15:48.160 Douglas thing, you know, people. 0:15:47.920 --> 0:15:49.680 Who didn't who didn't come up. 0:15:49.720 --> 0:15:52.680 I mean, look, it's an a long ass career, you know, 0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:56.440 like amazing performer and long, very long career, and you know, 0:15:58.600 --> 0:16:02.800 I mean, yeah it, you know. And so I feel like, 0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:05.960 if you don't know what the role is, it's hard 0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:08.320 to just say yes, and you feel like, hey, this 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:12.120 person might get in the way of what is happening, 0:16:13.040 --> 0:16:16.560 then yes, why why would you not have resistance to that? 0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:19.280 But when people start to learn that we can be 0:16:19.400 --> 0:16:22.360 very valuable collaborators in the same way that a stunt 0:16:22.360 --> 0:16:27.440 coordinator or a fight director can really bring out the 0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:32.280 spectrum of what's possible in a scene. And so, and 0:16:32.360 --> 0:16:35.240 if you ask anyone on a set what is sex 0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:38.640 to you? And what is sex to you or someone else, 0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:42.280 You're going to come up with really different answers to that. 0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:46.080 And so when we can start telling stories of intimacy 0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:49.720 and of sexuality and really represent like the spectrum of 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:53.000 what human sexuality is, which is vast, I feel like 0:16:53.040 --> 0:16:56.560 we can really start to see humanity in a better, different, 0:16:56.800 --> 0:16:58.000 more elevated light. 0:16:58.160 --> 0:17:01.240 And I really feel like it's a healing practice. 0:17:01.480 --> 0:17:03.080 What what do you say? 0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:07.640 And this used to I don't I can't imagine this 0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:11.680 comment would be made anymore, but it was certainly prevalent 0:17:11.720 --> 0:17:18.359 when I was in my thirties and forties. Where actor 0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:21.560 or actress reads the scene, they can clearly see what 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:24.439 it is. It says, she takes off her clothes, she 0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:27.440 reveals her thing, they climb into bed and ba but 0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:29.639 and it describes a certain kind of intimacy. 0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:33.640 And you get there on the day and one of the. 0:17:33.560 --> 0:17:36.280 Actors, now clearly you would have gotten to them prior 0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:38.480 to this, but one of the actors decides on the 0:17:38.560 --> 0:17:42.280 day maybe even after you've they're not as comfortable as 0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:44.280 they thought they would be, and the producer or the 0:17:44.359 --> 0:17:45.760 director is suddenly going. 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:48.600 For God's sakes, you read this. This is not a surprise. 0:17:48.880 --> 0:17:50.680 You read it. You saw what it was. You took 0:17:50.720 --> 0:17:53.680 the job. First of all. 0:17:53.800 --> 0:17:56.359 Does that situation still come up? And if it does, 0:17:56.440 --> 0:17:58.399 how do you what do you do with that? 0:17:58.680 --> 0:17:58.840 Yeah? 0:17:58.920 --> 0:18:10.720 Absolutely? I mean, for. 0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:13.879 God's sakes, you read this. There's not a surprise. You 0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:14.320 read it. 0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:15.199 You saw what it was. 0:18:15.280 --> 0:18:19.680 You took the job, first of all. Does that situation 0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:21.760 still come up? And if it does, how do you 0:18:22.440 --> 0:18:23.440 what do you do with that? 0:18:23.600 --> 0:18:23.800 Yeah? 0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:24.399 Absolutely? 0:18:24.440 --> 0:18:27.240 I mean imagine you read it on paper and sounded great, 0:18:27.280 --> 0:18:29.119 and then you got to set and someone's given you 0:18:29.160 --> 0:18:34.040 the sorry, yes, someone's giving you the creeps on set, 0:18:34.160 --> 0:18:36.119 or suddenly you have a bad feeling about this, or 0:18:36.160 --> 0:18:39.560 suddenly you said yes because of the role, but then 0:18:39.600 --> 0:18:42.440 when you got to set, you think, you know, maybe 0:18:42.440 --> 0:18:46.000 I don't want to do this. And so the actor 0:18:46.080 --> 0:18:48.880 has the right to revoke their consent at any time, 0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:52.880 even after a writer assigned. After the writer is signed, 0:18:53.359 --> 0:18:56.280 the production will also then have the right to double 0:18:56.320 --> 0:18:59.639 the actor, but the double cannot do more than what 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:00.919 the act or agreed to do. 0:19:01.840 --> 0:19:05.920 Oh that really, yeah, that's what I got a belt. 0:19:07.200 --> 0:19:09.600 That is really so I'll do this. 0:19:09.840 --> 0:19:13.960 But the scene it's there, I can't then go all right, 0:19:14.000 --> 0:19:17.160 But there are still a little more because their own. 0:19:16.480 --> 0:19:19.600 Think about this scenario. You're on set, someone someone new 0:19:19.920 --> 0:19:23.199 you know, is on set. It's really exciting. They're working 0:19:23.240 --> 0:19:26.159 with Jason. This is the most exciting scene. This is like, 0:19:26.280 --> 0:19:29.840 you know, they're high suddenly from like you know, oxytocin 0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:33.440 flowing through their through their veins. They're just so excited 0:19:33.480 --> 0:19:36.240 to be here. And in the moment, in this heightened 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:38.680 state of excitement, they say, you know what, I wasn't 0:19:38.680 --> 0:19:41.800 comfortable taking off my clothes, but screw it. Now I'm 0:19:41.800 --> 0:19:45.520 comfortable taking off my clothes. And you're like great, and 0:19:45.560 --> 0:19:48.919 you shoot the scene and then they put their clothes 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:50.760 on and they go off into the trailer. 0:19:50.720 --> 0:19:52.680 Like what the fuck did I do? 0:19:52.200 --> 0:19:53.360 What did I just do? 0:19:53.720 --> 0:19:56.520 So that's why in a very calm you know, usually 0:19:56.520 --> 0:19:59.359 on a zoom, sometimes in person a conversation, we'll talk 0:19:59.400 --> 0:20:04.560 through it and an actor might say I'm comfortable with it, 0:20:04.600 --> 0:20:07.200 and I say great, if you change your mind, let 0:20:07.240 --> 0:20:11.080 me know, and we'll all have a conversation discreetly, or 0:20:11.119 --> 0:20:13.359 I'll approach the director and we'll come up with a 0:20:13.400 --> 0:20:15.840 different way to do it. It's going to maintain the 0:20:15.840 --> 0:20:19.439 integrity of the story and slightly alter what we have 0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:21.359