WEBVTT - Student Expelled Over Gendered Basketball Team (Audio)

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<v Speaker 1>Sydney Phillips is a twelve year old New Jersey girl

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<v Speaker 1>who was a basketball all star at St. Teresa's Catholic School.

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<v Speaker 1>Last fall, when there weren't enough girls to make up

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<v Speaker 1>a team, Sydney asked if she could join the boys

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<v Speaker 1>basketball team. The school said no, so Sydney's parents filed

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<v Speaker 1>a lawsuit against the school and the Archdiocese of Newark.

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<v Speaker 1>The judge ruled that the seventh grader had no right

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<v Speaker 1>to play basketball, so her parents appealed. But here's the

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<v Speaker 1>twist in the story. The Archdiocese of Newark expelled both

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<v Speaker 1>Sydney and her sister from St. Teresa's, signing a school

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<v Speaker 1>policy that states legal action against the school will result

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<v Speaker 1>in expulsion. The controversy caused the New York Liberty w

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<v Speaker 1>NBA team to invite Sydney to practice with them at

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<v Speaker 1>Madison Square Garden. Liberty player of Brittany Boyd told New

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<v Speaker 1>Jersey dot Com why as an organization want to inspire her,

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<v Speaker 1>Let her know that whatever you want to be, just

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<v Speaker 1>being and do what you want to do, and don't

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<v Speaker 1>let nobody ever tell you that you can't do anything.

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<v Speaker 1>Our guest is Aaron Zuvis, director of the Center for

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<v Speaker 1>Gender and Sexuality Studies at Western New England School of Law.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's get right to the core question, Aaron, if there

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<v Speaker 1>are no facilities for a girl to play a sport,

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<v Speaker 1>should she be allowed to play on the boys team? Well,

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<v Speaker 1>it's a more complicated question than just yes or no.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, certainly, if it were up to me, she

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<v Speaker 1>would be allowed to play on the boys team, given

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<v Speaker 1>the lack of of any alternative at the school. However, Um,

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<v Speaker 1>she goes to a private school. She goes to a

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<v Speaker 1>private religious school that has the opportunity to insulate itself

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<v Speaker 1>from civil rights protections by foregoing federal funds, and assuming

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<v Speaker 1>that it has UM, she doesn't have the right that

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<v Speaker 1>a student who attends a public school or school that's

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<v Speaker 1>receiving federal funds would have to UM to insist on

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<v Speaker 1>that right to play and challenge the retaliatory expulsion that

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<v Speaker 1>resulted from her case, Aaron. Doesn't matter whether Um, there's

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<v Speaker 1>a religious basis for for having her not beyond the

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<v Speaker 1>boys team, or is it a matter just as I

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<v Speaker 1>think you were describing that they can't even get in

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<v Speaker 1>the door UM for this lawsuit. If if the school

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't accept federal funds. Yeah, I mean her her options

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<v Speaker 1>for for litigating are really limited by the fact that

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<v Speaker 1>she's challenging a decision by a private school. UM. The

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<v Speaker 1>fact that it may be a religious objection, or or

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<v Speaker 1>just or or any other objection. It doesn't really it

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't really matter for the purposes of litigation. Now, I

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<v Speaker 1>should say that, UM, I understand her lawsuit to the

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<v Speaker 1>one that the judge throughout, and that I believe she's

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<v Speaker 1>appealing UM to be rooted in a claim under the

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<v Speaker 1>terms of the State of New Jersey Interscholastic Athletic Association. UM.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't purport to know the ins and outs of

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<v Speaker 1>the the requirements of the New Jersey Interscholastic Athletic Association,

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<v Speaker 1>So I can't really a pine on the merits there.

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<v Speaker 1>But I can say that, um, she's she's limited to

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<v Speaker 1>those kinds of claims in the absence of any ability

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<v Speaker 1>to h to bring a claim understay the Constitution's Equal

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<v Speaker 1>Protection Clause UM and or Title nine by virtue of

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<v Speaker 1>the fact that this is a private school. So the

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<v Speaker 1>Phillips made an emergency appeal, as you said, and Appellate

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<v Speaker 1>Court Judge Amy O'Connor issued a temporary order requiring the

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<v Speaker 1>school to reinstate both girls pending a hearing set for

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<v Speaker 1>later this week. Does that indicate the fact that the

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<v Speaker 1>judge did that that there might be something to their case? Uh, well,

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<v Speaker 1>certainly it does. I don't know the legal basis on

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<v Speaker 1>which the the parents are challenging now the expulsion. I

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<v Speaker 1>assume there must be a more broadly applicable state law. UM.

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<v Speaker 1>I can say that Title nine, which doesn't apply in

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<v Speaker 1>this case because it's a private school, has very robust

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<v Speaker 1>protections for retaliation. UM. So this would be a much

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<v Speaker 1>clearer case again if this were being considered in the

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<v Speaker 1>context of public school. I mean, I just, I just

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<v Speaker 1>think that today is actually a good day to uh

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<v Speaker 1>to really uh bring up and emphasize these distinctions between

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<v Speaker 1>public or private school. I mean, it happens to be

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<v Speaker 1>just you know, minutes ago, it seems that we um

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<v Speaker 1>and our Congress approved the nomination of an education secretary

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<v Speaker 1>who seems to have privatization and a preference for private

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<v Speaker 1>schools and private religious schools. Uh. And I think that

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<v Speaker 1>this story is an important, um, you know, an important

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<v Speaker 1>thing to have on the air today in light of

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<v Speaker 1>that fact, because it really underscores, uh, what many people

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<v Speaker 1>really lis is also at stake when we talk about

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<v Speaker 1>the difference between private and public schools, and that's the

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<v Speaker 1>absence of civil rights protection in large part um that

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<v Speaker 1>a company's decisions to uh, you know, to shift our

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<v Speaker 1>education opportunities from them from the public to the private realm,

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<v Speaker 1>we could really be scaling back on opportunities that students

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<v Speaker 1>have to uh to challenge discriminatory conditions, whether it be

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<v Speaker 1>the discrimination of being excluded from athletic opportunities and the

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<v Speaker 1>discrimination of being then excluded from school for having exercised

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<v Speaker 1>your right or attempted to exercise your right to participate. Well, Aaron,

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<v Speaker 1>you talked about federal funds as being kind of the

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<v Speaker 1>foothold that that somebody could use to to sue a

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<v Speaker 1>private school for a discrimination. Um, is that do private

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<v Speaker 1>schools typically accept federal funds? What are we talking about

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<v Speaker 1>there in terms of the types and amounts of federal

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<v Speaker 1>funds that could be? Right? Well, so when we're talking

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<v Speaker 1>about K through twelve education, primary and secondary education, Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>most private schools operate outside the realm of federal funds,

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<v Speaker 1>though there have been uh a handful of cases that

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<v Speaker 1>I've come across where a private school is participating in,

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<v Speaker 1>say a federally subsidized school lunch program or the other

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<v Speaker 1>programs that might make certain UM either technology resources or

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<v Speaker 1>other classroom resources available to private schools that might have

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<v Speaker 1>a federal funding nexus attached. UM. But for the for

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<v Speaker 1>the most part, that the the tendency is for private

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<v Speaker 1>schools to operate without federal funds. It's a little different

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<v Speaker 1>at the college level because, uh, for the most part,

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<v Speaker 1>public and private schools alike will accept students who participate

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<v Speaker 1>in federal student loan programs, and that becomes a nexus

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<v Speaker 1>for Title nine's application there Aaron, the parents signed off

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<v Speaker 1>on the school handbook policy that states parents who sue

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<v Speaker 1>the school will be asked to remove their children, children

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<v Speaker 1>will be expelled. Is that a big problem for them

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<v Speaker 1>signing that? Uh? I would think so. Yeah. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>as a matter of I mean, they've they have chosen

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<v Speaker 1>to uh to to by by UM by this private

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<v Speaker 1>school's rules. You know. I gotta say again, I don't know,

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<v Speaker 1>it hasn't been UM easy to find or reported what

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<v Speaker 1>the legal grounds are that they are challenging now the expulsion.

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<v Speaker 1>UH So, if they're making a claim that this is uh,

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<v Speaker 1>that there's a specific New Jersey law that protects them. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, I don't have um an independent analysis of

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<v Speaker 1>of that particular angle, UM, but I would certainly UM,

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<v Speaker 1>I would certainly assume that over coming this obstacle of

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<v Speaker 1>having sort of conceded their legal right to challenge any

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<v Speaker 1>decision about their ability to continue to go to school,

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<v Speaker 1>there would be the biggest obstacles that that lawsuit would

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<v Speaker 1>have to overcome. Well, we will find out more later

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<v Speaker 1>in the week when the judge. Here's the case, and

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<v Speaker 1>certainly the controversy is not is not doing the school

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<v Speaker 1>any good, but uh, it's it's doing the issue. I

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<v Speaker 1>guess I'm good. Thank you so much for being on

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Law. That's Aaron Bzovis, director of the Center for

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<v Speaker 1>Gender and Sexuality Studies at Western New England School of Law.

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<v Speaker 1>Greg there was so much online about her playing at

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<v Speaker 1>Madison Square Garden with the New York Liberty w NBA

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<v Speaker 1>team that you have to wonder if that might have

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<v Speaker 1>some kind of an impact on the archdiocese. Yeah, certainly

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<v Speaker 1>will raise a visibility. You know, this is one of

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<v Speaker 1>these cases where you look at it and I think

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<v Speaker 1>most people would the reaction would be, Wow, that's gender discrimination,

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<v Speaker 1>no question about it. But for the reasons that Aaron described,

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<v Speaker 1>that doesn't necessarily mean legally you have a case against

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<v Speaker 1>your your private Catholic school exactly. Coming up more on

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<v Speaker 1>the school system, but this time in Nevada. New teachers

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<v Speaker 1>in the state of Nevada will not have to know

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<v Speaker 1>about the US Constitution or the state constitution. If Senate

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<v Speaker 1>Bill twenty is past, should the state be lowering standards

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<v Speaker 1>for teachers because of the shortage of teachers. I'm June

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<v Speaker 1>Grasso with Greg Storf. This is Bloomberg