1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,679 Speaker 1: Sydney Phillips is a twelve year old New Jersey girl 2 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:06,000 Speaker 1: who was a basketball all star at St. Teresa's Catholic School. 3 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:08,440 Speaker 1: Last fall, when there weren't enough girls to make up 4 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:10,640 Speaker 1: a team, Sydney asked if she could join the boys 5 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 1: basketball team. The school said no, so Sydney's parents filed 6 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: a lawsuit against the school and the Archdiocese of Newark. 7 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:20,320 Speaker 1: The judge ruled that the seventh grader had no right 8 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:23,599 Speaker 1: to play basketball, so her parents appealed. But here's the 9 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:27,200 Speaker 1: twist in the story. The Archdiocese of Newark expelled both 10 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: Sydney and her sister from St. Teresa's, signing a school 11 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:34,479 Speaker 1: policy that states legal action against the school will result 12 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: in expulsion. The controversy caused the New York Liberty w 13 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:41,519 Speaker 1: NBA team to invite Sydney to practice with them at 14 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:45,639 Speaker 1: Madison Square Garden. Liberty player of Brittany Boyd told New 15 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 1: Jersey dot Com why as an organization want to inspire her, 16 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:53,960 Speaker 1: Let her know that whatever you want to be, just 17 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 1: being and do what you want to do, and don't 18 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 1: let nobody ever tell you that you can't do anything. 19 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: Our guest is Aaron Zuvis, director of the Center for 20 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 1: Gender and Sexuality Studies at Western New England School of Law. 21 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 1: Let's get right to the core question, Aaron, if there 22 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 1: are no facilities for a girl to play a sport, 23 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 1: should she be allowed to play on the boys team? Well, 24 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 1: it's a more complicated question than just yes or no. 25 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 1: I mean, certainly, if it were up to me, she 26 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:25,320 Speaker 1: would be allowed to play on the boys team, given 27 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:30,040 Speaker 1: the lack of of any alternative at the school. However, Um, 28 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 1: she goes to a private school. She goes to a 29 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 1: private religious school that has the opportunity to insulate itself 30 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:45,839 Speaker 1: from civil rights protections by foregoing federal funds, and assuming 31 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 1: that it has UM, she doesn't have the right that 32 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: a student who attends a public school or school that's 33 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 1: receiving federal funds would have to UM to insist on 34 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 1: that right to play and challenge the retaliatory expulsion that 35 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 1: resulted from her case, Aaron. Doesn't matter whether Um, there's 36 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:12,960 Speaker 1: a religious basis for for having her not beyond the 37 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 1: boys team, or is it a matter just as I 38 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 1: think you were describing that they can't even get in 39 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:22,239 Speaker 1: the door UM for this lawsuit. If if the school 40 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 1: doesn't accept federal funds. Yeah, I mean her her options 41 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:29,800 Speaker 1: for for litigating are really limited by the fact that 42 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 1: she's challenging a decision by a private school. UM. The 43 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 1: fact that it may be a religious objection, or or 44 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 1: just or or any other objection. It doesn't really it 45 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 1: doesn't really matter for the purposes of litigation. Now, I 46 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 1: should say that, UM, I understand her lawsuit to the 47 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 1: one that the judge throughout, and that I believe she's 48 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 1: appealing UM to be rooted in a claim under the 49 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 1: terms of the State of New Jersey Interscholastic Athletic Association. UM. 50 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:07,919 Speaker 1: I don't purport to know the ins and outs of 51 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 1: the the requirements of the New Jersey Interscholastic Athletic Association, 52 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 1: So I can't really a pine on the merits there. 53 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 1: But I can say that, um, she's she's limited to 54 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:22,679 Speaker 1: those kinds of claims in the absence of any ability 55 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 1: to h to bring a claim understay the Constitution's Equal 56 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:29,919 Speaker 1: Protection Clause UM and or Title nine by virtue of 57 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 1: the fact that this is a private school. So the 58 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 1: Phillips made an emergency appeal, as you said, and Appellate 59 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: Court Judge Amy O'Connor issued a temporary order requiring the 60 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 1: school to reinstate both girls pending a hearing set for 61 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 1: later this week. Does that indicate the fact that the 62 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 1: judge did that that there might be something to their case? Uh, well, 63 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 1: certainly it does. I don't know the legal basis on 64 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 1: which the the parents are challenging now the expulsion. I 65 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 1: assume there must be a more broadly applicable state law. UM. 66 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 1: I can say that Title nine, which doesn't apply in 67 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 1: this case because it's a private school, has very robust 68 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:17,839 Speaker 1: protections for retaliation. UM. So this would be a much 69 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:21,279 Speaker 1: clearer case again if this were being considered in the 70 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:24,479 Speaker 1: context of public school. I mean, I just, I just 71 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 1: think that today is actually a good day to uh 72 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 1: to really uh bring up and emphasize these distinctions between 73 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 1: public or private school. I mean, it happens to be 74 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:37,720 Speaker 1: just you know, minutes ago, it seems that we um 75 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 1: and our Congress approved the nomination of an education secretary 76 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 1: who seems to have privatization and a preference for private 77 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:50,280 Speaker 1: schools and private religious schools. Uh. And I think that 78 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 1: this story is an important, um, you know, an important 79 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:55,719 Speaker 1: thing to have on the air today in light of 80 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 1: that fact, because it really underscores, uh, what many people 81 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:02,239 Speaker 1: really lis is also at stake when we talk about 82 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:05,800 Speaker 1: the difference between private and public schools, and that's the 83 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 1: absence of civil rights protection in large part um that 84 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 1: a company's decisions to uh, you know, to shift our 85 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 1: education opportunities from them from the public to the private realm, 86 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 1: we could really be scaling back on opportunities that students 87 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 1: have to uh to challenge discriminatory conditions, whether it be 88 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: the discrimination of being excluded from athletic opportunities and the 89 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 1: discrimination of being then excluded from school for having exercised 90 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:41,480 Speaker 1: your right or attempted to exercise your right to participate. Well, Aaron, 91 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 1: you talked about federal funds as being kind of the 92 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:47,039 Speaker 1: foothold that that somebody could use to to sue a 93 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:52,360 Speaker 1: private school for a discrimination. Um, is that do private 94 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 1: schools typically accept federal funds? What are we talking about 95 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:58,159 Speaker 1: there in terms of the types and amounts of federal 96 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:00,279 Speaker 1: funds that could be? Right? Well, so when we're talking 97 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:06,840 Speaker 1: about K through twelve education, primary and secondary education, Uh, 98 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 1: most private schools operate outside the realm of federal funds, 99 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:14,719 Speaker 1: though there have been uh a handful of cases that 100 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:18,720 Speaker 1: I've come across where a private school is participating in, 101 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: say a federally subsidized school lunch program or the other 102 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:28,720 Speaker 1: programs that might make certain UM either technology resources or 103 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 1: other classroom resources available to private schools that might have 104 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 1: a federal funding nexus attached. UM. But for the for 105 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:40,480 Speaker 1: the most part, that the the tendency is for private 106 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 1: schools to operate without federal funds. It's a little different 107 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 1: at the college level because, uh, for the most part, 108 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 1: public and private schools alike will accept students who participate 109 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 1: in federal student loan programs, and that becomes a nexus 110 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:59,680 Speaker 1: for Title nine's application there Aaron, the parents signed off 111 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 1: on the school handbook policy that states parents who sue 112 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:06,479 Speaker 1: the school will be asked to remove their children, children 113 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 1: will be expelled. Is that a big problem for them 114 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 1: signing that? Uh? I would think so. Yeah. I mean, 115 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 1: as a matter of I mean, they've they have chosen 116 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 1: to uh to to by by UM by this private 117 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 1: school's rules. You know. I gotta say again, I don't know, 118 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 1: it hasn't been UM easy to find or reported what 119 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 1: the legal grounds are that they are challenging now the expulsion. 120 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 1: UH So, if they're making a claim that this is uh, 121 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 1: that there's a specific New Jersey law that protects them. Um. 122 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 1: You know, I don't have um an independent analysis of 123 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 1: of that particular angle, UM, but I would certainly UM, 124 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 1: I would certainly assume that over coming this obstacle of 125 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: having sort of conceded their legal right to challenge any 126 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:06,559 Speaker 1: decision about their ability to continue to go to school, 127 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 1: there would be the biggest obstacles that that lawsuit would 128 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 1: have to overcome. Well, we will find out more later 129 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 1: in the week when the judge. Here's the case, and 130 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: certainly the controversy is not is not doing the school 131 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 1: any good, but uh, it's it's doing the issue. I 132 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 1: guess I'm good. Thank you so much for being on 133 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Law. That's Aaron Bzovis, director of the Center for 134 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 1: Gender and Sexuality Studies at Western New England School of Law. 135 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:37,840 Speaker 1: Greg there was so much online about her playing at 136 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 1: Madison Square Garden with the New York Liberty w NBA 137 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:44,320 Speaker 1: team that you have to wonder if that might have 138 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 1: some kind of an impact on the archdiocese. Yeah, certainly 139 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:50,080 Speaker 1: will raise a visibility. You know, this is one of 140 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 1: these cases where you look at it and I think 141 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:55,319 Speaker 1: most people would the reaction would be, Wow, that's gender discrimination, 142 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 1: no question about it. But for the reasons that Aaron described, 143 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 1: that doesn't necessarily mean legally you have a case against 144 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:05,120 Speaker 1: your your private Catholic school exactly. Coming up more on 145 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 1: the school system, but this time in Nevada. New teachers 146 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 1: in the state of Nevada will not have to know 147 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:15,199 Speaker 1: about the US Constitution or the state constitution. If Senate 148 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:19,079 Speaker 1: Bill twenty is past, should the state be lowering standards 149 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 1: for teachers because of the shortage of teachers. I'm June 150 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:24,440 Speaker 1: Grasso with Greg Storf. This is Bloomberg