Speaker 1: Now from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound On
Speaker 1: and everything in my power. The blood gas price. Gass
Speaker 1: prices for the first time ever now exceed five dollars
Speaker 1: a gallant. The President is going to see over a
Speaker 1: dozen leaders. Yes, we can't expect the president to see
Speaker 1: the Crown Prince. Bloomberg Sound On Politics, Policy and perspective
Speaker 1: from DC's top name. So we've made some news here today.
Speaker 1: Senator Sanders says he'd be open minded. I believe him
Speaker 1: bipartisan trip, but more important, I believe we have a
Speaker 1: corrupt political Sister Floomberg Sound On with Joe Matthew on
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. Yes, President Biden is going to Saudi Arabia.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the fastest hour in politics, as gas prices
Speaker 1: hold at record highs and Republican criticism only gets worse.
Speaker 1: We'll talk about the trip to Riyad and what Joe
Speaker 1: Biden's meeting with the Crown Prince might produce with Daniel Kurtzer,
Speaker 1: former Ambassador to Israel and Egypt now at the Princeton
Speaker 1: School of Public Affairs. Analysis from our panel today with
Speaker 1: Bloombery Politics contributor, Democratic analyst Ginnie Chanzano, along with Republican
Speaker 1: strategist Doug High, former communications director for the Republican National Committee,
Speaker 1: back with Us today for the Hour and later a
Speaker 1: new experiment in politics, as the Edward M. Kennedy Institute
Speaker 1: in Boston kicks off a series of extended debates between
Speaker 1: Republican and Democratic senators in the search for compromise. I
Speaker 1: love more on the first debate between Bernie Sanders and
Speaker 1: Lindsey Graham. President Biden trying to get his arms around
Speaker 1: five dollar a gallon gas. He talked about it today
Speaker 1: before the a f l C. I oh big meeting,
Speaker 1: the trip to Philadelphia, everything in my power. The blunt
Speaker 1: prudent gas price site just said she invaded Ukraine. It's
Speaker 1: gone up a dollar seventies four gallon because of nothing
Speaker 1: else but that. So I have a land to bring
Speaker 1: down the cost of gas and food. It's gonna take time,
Speaker 1: but let the world coordinate the largest release. What I
Speaker 1: able to do for the largest release of oil from
Speaker 1: the Global Fund and history million barrels a day. You
Speaker 1: can now officially add a trip to Saudi Arabia, at
Speaker 1: least confirmed by the White House once and for all.
Speaker 1: The trip, which will also include stops in Israel the
Speaker 1: West Bank is about more than oil, though, according to
Speaker 1: Press Secretary Karine Sempire, to view engagement with Saudi Arabia
Speaker 1: and energy security as asking for oil is simply wrong, uh,
Speaker 1: and a misunderstanding of both the complexity of that issue
Speaker 1: and are multifaceted discussions with the Saudias. So what else
Speaker 1: is on the agenda? What about Jamaica? Shogi? We discussed
Speaker 1: with Daniel Kurtzer, former US Ambassador to Israel and Egypt's
Speaker 1: lecturer and Abram Professor of Middle East Policy Studies now
Speaker 1: at the Princeton School of Public and International Affairs. Ambassador welcome,
Speaker 1: thanks for being with us. Is that true that this
Speaker 1: trip will be about more than oil? Oh? Very much so.
Speaker 1: It's a very complicated, substantive agenda with very severe political
Speaker 1: implications for failure. Surely, he's got to make good on
Speaker 1: his commitment to try to bring down the price of
Speaker 1: oil through increased supply and and other measures. But there's
Speaker 1: the human rights situation with Saudi Arabia. You know, this
Speaker 1: president called Saudi a radio para state, and he'll be
Speaker 1: shaking hands with the man who was responsible for ordering
Speaker 1: the assassination of Kashogi, and then there's the Israel and
Speaker 1: Palestine stops, where Israeli policy and the territories is likely
Speaker 1: to come up, Palestinian demands to reopen their the American
Speaker 1: Consulate General. Every aspect of this trip has complications. You
Speaker 1: heard the White House Press Secretary of there a moment ago,
Speaker 1: Kareene john Pair was asked by reporters day on Air
Speaker 1: Force One they were on their way to Philadelphia about
Speaker 1: the killing of Jamaica Schoki, for which, as you pointed out,
Speaker 1: Joe Biden has labeled or once labeled Saudi Arabia a
Speaker 1: pariah of the world. So how does he bring this up?
Speaker 1: Here is what she said when she was asked if
Speaker 1: it would come up. Human rights is always part of
Speaker 1: the conversation in our foreign foreign engagement, so that will
Speaker 1: always be the case. It doesn't, it does regardless of
Speaker 1: who he's meeting with. We are not what we I
Speaker 1: want to say. We're not overlooking any conduct that happened
Speaker 1: before the president took office. Okay, not overlooking any conducts.
Speaker 1: So that sounds like a yes, Ambassador, What could Joe
Speaker 1: Biden say about this? Two MBS when we're the ones
Speaker 1: asking for help? You know, part of the issue here
Speaker 1: is educating our own public. H the there was a
Speaker 1: backgrounder by a senior administration official who tried to lay
Speaker 1: out all the reasons why we have a strategic relationship
Speaker 1: with the Saudist and we do. UH. There's security and
Speaker 1: the Gulf UH, the oil or energy issue, the situation
Speaker 1: in Yemen, uh climate, you name it, UH. And then
Speaker 1: you have human rights, which at least in the public's mind,
Speaker 1: seems to be overriding these other issues. So the President,
Speaker 1: on the one hand, has to tell the American people
Speaker 1: why he's going to do this, and he's got to
Speaker 1: impress upon Mbs Mohammed bin Salman, the Crown Prince, that
Speaker 1: it's not it's not simply possible to to forget about
Speaker 1: what happened to Kashogi. The Saudis will have to find
Speaker 1: a way to deal with the perception that they kill
Speaker 1: people at will when they're uh dissatisfied with the policies.
Speaker 1: What if they don't care, Well, that's going to be
Speaker 1: the problem when he comes back home. He already faced
Speaker 1: his problems from his own party, let alone the Republicans
Speaker 1: who are critical of his decision to go. Knowing that
Speaker 1: he's going to have to meet with the Crown Prince
Speaker 1: uh and he's going to have to find a way
Speaker 1: to impress upon the Saudiast. But our relationship is important
Speaker 1: enough to them as it is to us that they
Speaker 1: have to bend a little bit. This doesn't result in
Speaker 1: an apology or something. Right. Well, America have to take
Speaker 1: Joe Biden at his word about what was said behind
Speaker 1: closed doors. I think that's going to be the bottom line.
Speaker 1: There's there's no way that MBS is going to apologize publicly.
Speaker 1: It would diminish the perception of his strength in Saudi Arabia.
Speaker 1: But the President can come out of a four Eyes
Speaker 1: meeting and say that, you know, we've reached an understanding
Speaker 1: that the Saudiast know that they did something wrong and
Speaker 1: have undertaken not to do it again. Spending time with
Speaker 1: Daniel Kurtzer, former ambassador to Israel and Egypt now with
Speaker 1: the Princeton School of Public and International Affairs, Donald Trump
Speaker 1: was very careful, as you well know, Ambassador, to not
Speaker 1: disturb this relationship, and specifically, as he would point out
Speaker 1: some big defense contracts, how important is it? And by
Speaker 1: the way, let's listen to him, this is just to
Speaker 1: go back in time here, this is November. I'm not
Speaker 1: going to destroy the world economy and I'm not going
Speaker 1: to destroy the economy for our country by being foolish
Speaker 1: with Saudi Arabia. Was there truth to that, ambassador? And
Speaker 1: how important is it for the US to be working
Speaker 1: with Saudi Arabia as an ally for national security in
Speaker 1: the Middle East? Forget oil for a minute. Well, I
Speaker 1: think there are three things. Number One, UM, the rhetoric
Speaker 1: around those contracts was much greater than the reality. The
Speaker 1: Saudiast did not produce UH the kind of commitments that
Speaker 1: President Trump suggested. Number Two, the Saudis are important for
Speaker 1: the United States and for security in the region. They've
Speaker 1: been an ally of ours for eighty years. They helped
Speaker 1: us in various UH difficult situations, for example the First
Speaker 1: Gulf War and in the War on Terrorism. UH. They
Speaker 1: are now being helpful with the situation in Yemen. UH.
Speaker 1: And I think the third issue, though, is that we're
Speaker 1: a country that still pays attention to human rights, and
Speaker 1: the Saudi should know this by now. UH. You know,
Speaker 1: we usually find ways to mediate our differences of you
Speaker 1: on that, but the Saudis are going to hear that
Speaker 1: we are concerned about human rights generally in the Kingdom
Speaker 1: and the the ongoing concern over the Kashogi murder. Did
Speaker 1: Joe Biden say too much as a candidate in his
Speaker 1: early commentary on this? Was that short sighted for a
Speaker 1: man who would become president. I think the rhetoric of
Speaker 1: candidates generally is overboard, and I think on this case,
Speaker 1: the use of the word pariah state was probably uh
Speaker 1: ill advised. Uh you know, it's taken sixteen months to
Speaker 1: kind of back away a little bit, and the importance
Speaker 1: of the trip to Saudi Arabia indicates that we both
Speaker 1: may be sobering up after all. He When the president
Speaker 1: goes to Jeddah in Saudi Arabia, it's not just to
Speaker 1: meet the Saudis, but there's a big summit meeting including
Speaker 1: the six Gulf Cooperation Council members Egypt, Jordan, and Iraq.
Speaker 1: So that's a quite important multilateral experience and it reinforces
Speaker 1: the idea that America is back in the Middle East,
Speaker 1: that we haven't abandoned that region. How much did Donald
Speaker 1: Trump's service, for lack of a better word, to Israel
Speaker 1: and Saudi Arabia disadvantage the relationship with this president now
Speaker 1: or do you not connect those dots. Well, I think
Speaker 1: they are connected politically. Uh. You know, in Israel at
Speaker 1: that time you had a Prime Minister, Mr. Natonia, who
Speaker 1: who was quite overtly supportive of Republicans. Uh and the
Speaker 1: Saudis were quite comfortable with Republicans and President Trump in particular. Uh.
Speaker 1: So there was a problem created not just for President Biden,
Speaker 1: but for the Democratic Party, and then both countries have
Speaker 1: had to kind of find their way back into a relationship.
Speaker 1: For Israel it's been a little bit easier because Nick Tanya,
Speaker 1: who is out of power, and the coalition, however shaky
Speaker 1: it is in Israel, has kind of reset the relationship
Speaker 1: with both the United States and particularly with the Democratic Party.
Speaker 1: This trip will allow the Saudiast to do the same thing.
Speaker 1: And you know, one of the big deliverables is going
Speaker 1: to be on energy, as as you've been reporting. And
Speaker 1: if the President can come back and say the Saudiast
Speaker 1: are going to do what they can do to increase
Speaker 1: production and therefore reduced prices, you know a lot of
Speaker 1: people are going to say, all right, we'll swallow hard
Speaker 1: on human rights and we'll live with with that. Situation. Well,
Speaker 1: this is America after all, Ambassador, what does it mean then, lastly,
Speaker 1: seeing this trip, hearing about deliverables to your point, what
Speaker 1: does it mean about a any possibility of a renewed
Speaker 1: Iran nuclear deal? Well, I've think in some ways that
Speaker 1: separate issue. It's certainly related in terms of the U, S,
Speaker 1: Saudi and US Gulf security cooperation. Those countries are very
Speaker 1: concerned not only about the Iran, about Iran's nuclear program,
Speaker 1: but also about its malign activities throughout the region and Yemen,
Speaker 1: in Lebanon and in Syria. Uh So it's a it's
Speaker 1: a very critical issue. The j c p o A,
Speaker 1: the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action with Iran, I think
Speaker 1: is not a certainty. The chances of its being concluded
Speaker 1: are fairly low. But I think a lot of that
Speaker 1: responsibility lies with the Iranians, who have increased their demands
Speaker 1: for issues outside of the negotiations, for example, removing the
Speaker 1: Iranian Revolutionary Guards from the terrorism list, something the administration
Speaker 1: will not do. I can talk to you all our
Speaker 1: Daniel Kurtz are fascinating conversation with our former ambassador to
Speaker 1: Israel and Egypt now working on Middle East Policy Studies
Speaker 1: at the Princeton's School of Public and International Affairs. You
Speaker 1: won't hear that anywhere else today, and you won't hear
Speaker 1: our panel. We assemble the panel next. This is Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg. You sound on with Joe Matthew
Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio. The headline on the terminal Gaspers Biden
Speaker 1: pivot on Saudia's and as we just discussed with Ambassador Kurtzer,
Speaker 1: President Biden will meet with Crown Prince Mohammed ben Selman
Speaker 1: m b S with a lot on the line. This president,
Speaker 1: unlike the previous president, is not afraid to talk tough
Speaker 1: with foreign leaders. So I have every confidence that Senate
Speaker 1: that President Biden will handle this very well. Chuck Schumer
Speaker 1: earlier today, the Senate Majority Leader, with his take, remembering
Speaker 1: how upset Chuck Schumer was with Donald Trump over all
Speaker 1: of this back in when it happened President ought to
Speaker 1: be taking the strongest possible action against the Saudis. There
Speaker 1: are lots of things that can be on. That was
Speaker 1: just after details into the killing of Jamal k were reported.
Speaker 1: And that's where we begin with our panel with inside
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Politics contributor and Democratic analyst Genie Chanzano, along with
Speaker 1: Republican strategist Doug Highs, back with US Today former communications
Speaker 1: director for the Republican National Committee, Genie, is President Biden
Speaker 1: making the right move here? And how does he manage
Speaker 1: this juggling act of somehow condemning MBS for the killing
Speaker 1: of Kashogi while asking for them to pump more oil
Speaker 1: in the kingdom? Boy, it is a tough needle to thread.
Speaker 1: And I thought you and the ambassador laid it out
Speaker 1: so beautifully in your conversation, because he talked about, you know,
Speaker 1: this attempt to educate the public as to why we
Speaker 1: have a relationship with Saudi Arabian, why the relationship is
Speaker 1: so important, And yet in in an effort to do that,
Speaker 1: you have to say that security in the Gulf, oil
Speaker 1: and energy, the situation in Yemen climate, those are more
Speaker 1: important than human rights of somebody that even the U. S.
Speaker 1: Intelligence community has said brutally murdered a Washington Post reporter
Speaker 1: and so threatening that and Nil was very difficult. And
Speaker 1: you listen to some of the President's friends in the
Speaker 1: Senate like Dick Durban and Ron Why Diden and Ben
Speaker 1: Carton and others. They are, you know, understanding why he
Speaker 1: is going, but they are saying if they were asked,
Speaker 1: they would say, you can't trust these people, and that
Speaker 1: is what the President's dealing with. And throughout all of this,
Speaker 1: I was thinking, this is why it is so much
Speaker 1: easier to be a senator than it is to be president,
Speaker 1: because you don't have to make these tough choices. Can't
Speaker 1: trust them, Doug High, but apparently we need them. I
Speaker 1: mean that seems to be part of the messaging that
Speaker 1: we're hearing from the White House. And you know the
Speaker 1: fact that they were so reticent to admit that this
Speaker 1: meaning that clearly was going to happen is in fact
Speaker 1: happening tells you that they're not entirely comfortable with where
Speaker 1: they're at right now. I am, and so you know,
Speaker 1: this is exactly that point. These are difficult times and
Speaker 1: difficult decisions. They knew this in advance, and it's why
Speaker 1: they tried to shy away from it for as long
Speaker 1: as they did. This will cap four days of travel
Speaker 1: in the region, uh Doug. That will include stops as
Speaker 1: well in Israel the West Bank. As we discussed with
Speaker 1: the ambassador that they they kind of pad the schedule
Speaker 1: here to make it look like there was more involved,
Speaker 1: or is this in fact a necessary trip to the
Speaker 1: region as opposed to the country. Well, they both can
Speaker 1: be true simultaneously. Neither is mutually exclusive. But clearly they
Speaker 1: don't want the only footage, if we actually see footage
Speaker 1: or a picture of this, to be the meeting with MBS.
Speaker 1: They want to have more to show. They want to
Speaker 1: show the President leading as a president should um, and
Speaker 1: Israel is a great place for him to do that.
Speaker 1: So it's not a surprise that they're that they're doing
Speaker 1: the two in tandem. I don't know how many Americans
Speaker 1: are going to be paying attention to this genie, or
Speaker 1: if we have a sense of that. There was outrage
Speaker 1: four years ago when when Jamal Ka Shogi was was murdered,
Speaker 1: and I mean this wasn't just you know, this was
Speaker 1: grizzly stuff. There were stories about a bone saw being
Speaker 1: carried into the embassy where this happened. Americans are, though,
Speaker 1: obsessed with gas prices right now, and so I'm assuming
Speaker 1: the White House can see the other side of this.
Speaker 1: They can see the other side of this valley genie,
Speaker 1: and they hope it's a celebration for something less than
Speaker 1: five dollars a gallon. Yeah, and now I have a
Speaker 1: hypothetical for you, Joe. Imagine this. They go over there,
Speaker 1: they have him shaking hands with this guy who's accused
Speaker 1: of this horrific, brutal murder. And yet you know, somebody
Speaker 1: you've talked to a lot, Dan Jurgen says, something that's
Speaker 1: not talked about is even if the Saudis pump more oil,
Speaker 1: there's not a lot more oil and Saudi in the
Speaker 1: UAE to significantly change the market. So imagine all of this.
Speaker 1: They pump it and then you know, it's a psychological wind,
Speaker 1: but it doesn't lower cost. And in fact, people have
Speaker 1: argued that that going towards so close to their spare
Speaker 1: capacity could also make the markets very nervous. And so
Speaker 1: you've got, you know, a fraud situation for the White House.
Speaker 1: They sent him over there just for this purpose, and
Speaker 1: it doesn't end up achieving even that. I mean, that's
Speaker 1: a worst case scenario, but one that, according at least
Speaker 1: to what Dan's saying, could potentially happen. That's right, And Doug, looking,
Speaker 1: let's say he secures lots of oil, they found a
Speaker 1: missing well, something happened, it still doesn't overcome the refining
Speaker 1: bottlenecks that we're dealing with in this country. If he
Speaker 1: gets a meaningful increase in production, could we actually handle
Speaker 1: it by could we turn it into gasoline in this country?
Speaker 1: It's it's really not clear that we'll be able to.
Speaker 1: So it's, as Jennie said, it's it's a psychological wind.
Speaker 1: But you know, psychology is really important here, and you're
Speaker 1: one of the things that Vladimir Putin ultimately decided was
Speaker 1: he was going to make a bet. And the bet
Speaker 1: that Vladimir Putin made was that he was going to
Speaker 1: be able to get away with everything that he's done
Speaker 1: in Ukraine. If you're watching what's happening right now and
Speaker 1: you're Putin, you're more comfortable with your bet today than
Speaker 1: you were two weeks ago. Well what do you think
Speaker 1: about that? Jennie, Yeah, I think that's very possible. And
Speaker 1: that is also a real real problem for this White House.
Speaker 1: And this White House just has tough decisions to make
Speaker 1: all around, including tariffs in China, which is he's addressing
Speaker 1: the a f l C I OH today, He's how
Speaker 1: to make a decision on something that will make his
Speaker 1: Union friends very unhappy. Yeah, a lot of talk about
Speaker 1: inflation today, about gas prices in front of the Union.
Speaker 1: Here are we headed for either a gas tax holiday
Speaker 1: or we're now hearing as a cur tax on oil profits. Doug,
Speaker 1: is that coming next? Um? You know it's it's gonna
Speaker 1: be difficult to pass that through the Senate. But clearly
Speaker 1: this is part of the conversation politically that Democrats would
Speaker 1: rather be having um than everything else that we've already
Speaker 1: laid out. And this is more terror firmer for Democrats
Speaker 1: message wise than anything else they've got. Reminding us again
Speaker 1: how few options Washington has not just this White House
Speaker 1: in dealing with these problems. Genie and Dougs day with
Speaker 1: us for the hour. As we turn next to the
Speaker 1: Senate Project an experiment in politics. This is Bloomberg. The
Speaker 1: very first debate in the Edward M. Kennedy Institute's New
Speaker 1: Senate Projects series took place yesterday There it isn't a
Speaker 1: scale replica of the Senate Chamber right there in Boston, Massachusetts.
Speaker 1: With Senators Lindsey Graham the R, of course, and Bernie
Speaker 1: Sanders the D. They got together broadcast on Fox. This
Speaker 1: came from the faux Senate Chamber, moderated by Brett Bear,
Speaker 1: and we wanted to talk about the aims of this
Speaker 1: whole project and give you a sense of what was
Speaker 1: said as they got together just hours after this new
Speaker 1: deal on gun safety legislation was announced. And we're joined
Speaker 1: by the chair of the board at the E. M.
Speaker 1: K Institute, Bruce Percellet. Welcome to Bloomberg. Thank you very much.
Speaker 1: Congrats on getting this series off the ground. Why does
Speaker 1: America need this now? We are as divided as at
Speaker 1: any point in recent memory, and some whould argue as
Speaker 1: divided as we then up to up to the Civil War.
Speaker 1: The Senate is not working and something needs to be done.
Speaker 1: It was fascinating to hear from Senator Sander and grahams
Speaker 1: since they're so far apart in so many issues. Certainly
Speaker 1: displayed that over the course of an hour, but I
Speaker 1: was taken by one particular exchange Bruce at the end
Speaker 1: of the debate, as Senator Graham thought the two had
Speaker 1: found common ground on the gun safety legislation that's moving
Speaker 1: through the Senate actually just announced within hours of this
Speaker 1: debate taking place. Let's listen to Lindsay Graham we've made
Speaker 1: some news here today. Senator Sanders says he would be
Speaker 1: open minded depending on how it's written to the package
Speaker 1: we've negotiated. That's a big deal because it's not what
Speaker 1: he would want. To his credit, there are things in
Speaker 1: there that you want that we can't put in the
Speaker 1: package for different because other people don't want them. So
Speaker 1: the fact that Bernie's will in Brett maybe to vote
Speaker 1: for this is very encouraging to me. Referring to Brett
Speaker 1: Bear who was moderating, and that sounds pretty good. But
Speaker 1: when Senator Sanders spoke Bruce, things well didn't sound quite
Speaker 1: as hopeful. Here's what he said. Most people, frankly, whether
Speaker 1: they are conservative, Republicans or progressives, well told you help
Speaker 1: me that the Congress is way way out of huch
Speaker 1: with the needs of the American people. Now, you may
Speaker 1: disagree with Medicare for all, you may disagree with expanding
Speaker 1: Social Security, lifting the cup. Maybe that's not where the
Speaker 1: American people are at. So yeah, I believe in bipartisanship.
Speaker 1: But more important, I believe we have a corrupt political
Speaker 1: system dominated by wealthy campaign contributors. So, Bruce, this gets
Speaker 1: to two very important issues. Number one My part isn't
Speaker 1: compromise is apparently still possible. But to Senator Sanders point,
Speaker 1: does the compromise in fact serve the middle ground in America?
Speaker 1: And is it possible to answer that? It really depends
Speaker 1: on who's up it bad. Bernie Sanders has very strong
Speaker 1: views um somewhould are you strident? Use? But you know
Speaker 1: you if you want a hundred percent of your position,
Speaker 1: you can often find you have a percent of nothing.
Speaker 1: And I think that Lindsey Graham yesterday was very lear
Speaker 1: in his willingness to uh to compromise, and compromise means
Speaker 1: not getting everything you want. Uh. Bernie Sanders, indeed, is
Speaker 1: I believe going to sign the framework of the gun
Speaker 1: Um bill that they are now starting to put together,
Speaker 1: and if so, you will have both of them signing it.
Speaker 1: Neither of them are going to be getting exactly what
Speaker 1: they want. But this is why we have a problem,
Speaker 1: and uh we need to just ship away at it.
Speaker 1: But I think some senators are going to be a
Speaker 1: little more receptive, receptive to the idea and offers how
Speaker 1: difficult has it been or not to convince senators to
Speaker 1: do this? You know what you ask a terrific question,
Speaker 1: and it surprised us. It has been very easy. And
Speaker 1: what does that tell you? It tells you that these
Speaker 1: senators want to be able to find an opportunity to
Speaker 1: to be civil. And when they're in Washington and they
Speaker 1: are too close to their own party, they can be
Speaker 1: vilified for what might be considered, you know, fratnizing with
Speaker 1: the enemy. UM. In this case, UM, you know, this
Speaker 1: is a much safer venue for them to cross UM,
Speaker 1: that great divide and reach out to people who too
Speaker 1: often happened, you know, viewed as um, you know, the
Speaker 1: dark side and and and the enemy, when in fact,
Speaker 1: you know, we're all on the same team. Ultimately, I'm
Speaker 1: curious what were the accommodations for the senators Bruce. Did
Speaker 1: they see each other yesterday before they were introduced? They
Speaker 1: did not, and that in part was because of where
Speaker 1: they were flying from and when they were flying in
Speaker 1: and so UM, they did not have the chance to
Speaker 1: kind of have a UM, you know, pre debate get together.
Speaker 1: But I will tell you that may be a good thing.
Speaker 1: By the way, you know, why why leave it in
Speaker 1: the green room? I They say, yeah, exactly, we don't
Speaker 1: want to save the you know, the gracious handshake for
Speaker 1: for the green room. But at the end of the debate,
Speaker 1: I did present them both with a gift, and I
Speaker 1: assured them that neither had this particular gift. And what
Speaker 1: I did do was I gave Bernie an autograph picture
Speaker 1: from the Senator Graham, and I gave Senator Graham an
Speaker 1: autograph picture from Bernie. And they each had written you
Speaker 1: a very pleasant inscriptions to each other when I when
Speaker 1: I caught them before. So I hope they sit on
Speaker 1: their mantele versus the circular file, or at least in
Speaker 1: the on the fridge. Bruce, what's the endgame here for
Speaker 1: for the Institute? You have several more of these debates planned,
Speaker 1: which makes it sound like the Institute is expanding its mission. Oh,
Speaker 1: there is no question. I don't see an endgame and
Speaker 1: that we want to continue this. We want to be
Speaker 1: a convenient convener, We want to be a resource. The
Speaker 1: response that we have gotten, certainly from a media standpoint,
Speaker 1: has been extraordinary. I just got a clip that was
Speaker 1: written in the newspaper in India. Um, it has gone
Speaker 1: all over Europe. You know, the world is watching us.
Speaker 1: The world wants to know that we still are there
Speaker 1: the beacon of democracy, and I think it's very unsettling
Speaker 1: for the rest of the world when when we are
Speaker 1: showing the type of division that we have. So um,
Speaker 1: we are definitely planning to elevate our institute. We have
Speaker 1: a facility that is extraordinary. I mean we literally have
Speaker 1: the exact replica down to the screw head of the night.
Speaker 1: I had to chuckle watching them look around the room
Speaker 1: in the chamber, Bruce. I think they were both wondering
Speaker 1: how they got back to Washington so quickly. Bruce personally,
Speaker 1: Chair of the board at the Edward M. Kennedy Institute,
Speaker 1: thank you for creating this forum for intellectual debate and
Speaker 1: stay in touch with us as it moves forward. Thank you,
Speaker 1: and let the healing begin. Coming up, we put it
Speaker 1: to the panel speaking of healing. Looking ahead as well
Speaker 1: to the next set of primaries. It's Primary Day. Genie
Speaker 1: Chamzano and Doug High back with us next on the
Speaker 1: fastest Hour in Politics. I'm Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg. You sound on with Joe Matthew
Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio. The Senate Project Debate. We just talked
Speaker 1: about between Bernie Sanders and Lindsey Graham was aimed at
Speaker 1: inspiring compromise, taking the time to air out our differences,
Speaker 1: finding common ground, and the two were more than cordial
Speaker 1: even when they did not agree, but they also found
Speaker 1: the line. And if you ask Senator Bernie Sanders, it's
Speaker 1: we have a form of president. His name is Donald Trump.
Speaker 1: It goes around the country telling people, hey, I won
Speaker 1: the election. Bat I probably wanted by a landslide, but
Speaker 1: they stole it. They took it away from me. All right. Now,
Speaker 1: that happens to me what we call a big lie.
Speaker 1: And yet many of the Republicans that Senator Graham or
Speaker 1: asking you to vote for maintaining that big life. What
Speaker 1: does that mean? It goes beyond Trump, It goes beyond
Speaker 1: the election. It means what they are saying is the
Speaker 1: entire system. You can't trust anybody. And if you can't
Speaker 1: trust the election results, that what is the obvious old turnative.
Speaker 1: We need a strong man. That would be Donald Trump. Now,
Speaker 1: if you ask Lindsey Graham, and he's kind of shaking
Speaker 1: his head listening to this, listen, listen closely to his answer,
Speaker 1: because he acknowledges for him it comes down to a
Speaker 1: different issue, crime and by extension funding the police. No,
Speaker 1: I'm voted to certify the election. President binds the president
Speaker 1: and whether from the election. Yeah, okay, but what about
Speaker 1: all of the candidies out there, and we're trying to
Speaker 1: say that he did your Republican candidates, So you want
Speaker 1: people to vote for it? Well, you know, court about
Speaker 1: the people saying defund the police, You talk to them
Speaker 1: out talk of that. Crowds at larger than micro Okay,
Speaker 1: So look, you can't agree on everything, and I'm guessing
Speaker 1: they're not going to go talk to each other's crowds.
Speaker 1: But a good time to reassemble the panel. I'm deeply
Speaker 1: curious to hear what Genie and Doug think of all
Speaker 1: of this. Bloomberg Politics contributor, Democratic analyst Genie Chanzyo. Doug
Speaker 1: High is back today, Republican strategist, former communications director at
Speaker 1: the Republican National Committee. Doug, when you hear this, I
Speaker 1: suspect that that you appreciate the spirit of this exercise
Speaker 1: or experiment, if we should call it that, just getting
Speaker 1: to senators from opposite sides to actually come in there
Speaker 1: and talk about of course, one is an independent to
Speaker 1: be clear with Bernie Sanders, but you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: But there there are intractable points of disagreement. They found
Speaker 1: that line on the election. Just as the January six
Speaker 1: Committee hearings are taking place, Doug, we're reminded that will
Speaker 1: compromise is within reach. We are still deeply divided over
Speaker 1: issues that don't seem like they're going to resolve anytime soon. No, no,
Speaker 1: they certainly don't. And as these hearings continue, it's clear
Speaker 1: that a case is being built, both a political case
Speaker 1: and a legal case. UM that is just more and
Speaker 1: more damning every day. And I say that as recently
Speaker 1: as while we've been on break, seeing more video coming
Speaker 1: from the committee just over the past few minutes, and
Speaker 1: you know, ultimately, you know, this is a very strange
Speaker 1: time in Washington because we're seeing the first kind of
Speaker 1: bipartisan legislation potentially on a controversial issue in a long,
Speaker 1: warm time, on guns and school shootings. And meanwhile, we
Speaker 1: have what's what's going on at um, you know, at
Speaker 1: the January six Committee and their Supreme Court decisions that
Speaker 1: are removing that could potentially be massively divisive as well.
Speaker 1: G D, were you inspired by this exercise or concerned
Speaker 1: by what you heard. I think it is critically important
Speaker 1: to have this discussion, and I applaud the institute for
Speaker 1: looking for common ground. As you know, I wrote an
Speaker 1: entire book in another direction, So I have to say,
Speaker 1: as much as I support the idea of inspiring people
Speaker 1: to find common ground, the reality is with human beings
Speaker 1: you can't just inspire them, because some are inspired and
Speaker 1: some are not. You actually have to restructure the system
Speaker 1: to it impromise. And the other thing I would say
Speaker 1: is the problem is not necessarily division, but it is stalemate.
Speaker 1: In other words, it's stalemate about things that the super
Speaker 1: majority agree with, as we've seen on things like background checks,
Speaker 1: and that stalemate is something that also you can restructure
Speaker 1: your weight out of. So I applaud the idea of
Speaker 1: inspiring compromise and looking for it, but more important to
Speaker 1: have a conversation about restructuring to get there. So it's
Speaker 1: primary day and Donald Trump, I guess touches all of
Speaker 1: these stories because we're back to looking at the Trump
Speaker 1: impacts on the electorate here, uh, and we've got some
Speaker 1: important ones today. South Carolina is the one we're looking at.
Speaker 1: I suspect that Genie and Doug, you are as well,
Speaker 1: because we've got and this is the first case where
Speaker 1: we have a Republican candidate who is being challenged by
Speaker 1: a Trump endorsed candidate after voting to support impeachment. That's
Speaker 1: Tom Rice. Representative Tom Rice, Republican from South Carolina. He
Speaker 1: is being challenged by a man named Russell Fry who
Speaker 1: has been endorsed by Donald Trump. And they're having fun
Speaker 1: with the commercials with the ads up there. Here's a
Speaker 1: Fry ad where they're in it like a support group meeting,
Speaker 1: and it's full of bad guys like Satan and the
Speaker 1: joker who's speaking now about this new guest they have
Speaker 1: in the room. Okay, everybody, remember this is a safe space. Weird,
Speaker 1: get some things off of our chest. We've all done
Speaker 1: things proud of. We haven't had a congressman here in
Speaker 1: a while. So let's go ahead and start with the
Speaker 1: Tom is a Tom Tom Rice. You don't have to say.
Speaker 1: He talks about all the horrible things he's done in
Speaker 1: his life, including voting for impeachment. Now Tom Rice has
Speaker 1: his own approach, and it's a very different one. Listen
Speaker 1: to the language in his ad. I've delivered hundreds of
Speaker 1: millions for schools, broadband, new roads, and more. Let's put
Speaker 1: progress over petting this. Let's put results over revenge. I'm
Speaker 1: Tom Rice and I approved this message. Results over revenge.
Speaker 1: Doug High, who are you watching as a potential winner tomorrow?
Speaker 1: Can he defend this seat? He can look at you know,
Speaker 1: what we've seen is is the Donald Trump endorsement gets
Speaker 1: the candidate that he endorses to one third of the vote,
Speaker 1: and from there it's really up to individual districts, individual
Speaker 1: races and the candidates themselves and how they're running and
Speaker 1: what their success hasn't and will be. That's also true
Speaker 1: with the Arrington Mace race in South Carolina as well.
Speaker 1: But when I'm hearing the most from from folks at
Speaker 1: the NRSC and the NRCC is not concerned about these
Speaker 1: races and who might emerge, but more other races where
Speaker 1: if somebody wins a primary, it might cost him a seat.
Speaker 1: And the example I hear more than any other is Missouri,
Speaker 1: where Eric Bryden's in the Senate race is leading by
Speaker 1: you know, six or eight points, depending on the poll
Speaker 1: that you look at, over candidates who would definitely Republican
Speaker 1: candidates who would definitely win an Eric Schmidt of Vicky
Speaker 1: Harts there Billy Long. Both of those last two are
Speaker 1: members of Congress, and so in the prism of the
Speaker 1: two thousand ten, two thousand twelve, two thousand fourteen races
Speaker 1: where Todd Ache and Richard Murdoch, Sharon Angle Christine O'donnald
Speaker 1: cost Republicans Senate seats that were basically already in the bag.
Speaker 1: Having a risky candidate like Eric Gryton's as the nominee
Speaker 1: is something that's putting real fear um into Republican minds
Speaker 1: more so than who may emerge on what something says
Speaker 1: about Donald tru Which is why it's interesting to watch
Speaker 1: Democrats put money behind some of these Republican candidates in
Speaker 1: the hopes that they can create a scenario like that. Genie,
Speaker 1: how important is it for Tom Rice to win this
Speaker 1: tomorrow just in terms of blunting the Trump effect? Yeah,
Speaker 1: Tom Race is. It's so fascinating because he has been defiant.
Speaker 1: You know, he has said if this cost me the election,
Speaker 1: it would be a badge of honor. So you know,
Speaker 1: he's one of ten, you know who voted for impeachments.
Speaker 1: So this is going to be a real marker today.
Speaker 1: And you know, Joe, I told you earlier this ad
Speaker 1: that you just played by that Friedran is one of
Speaker 1: my favorite of the season. I wouldn't know about it
Speaker 1: if you hadn't said it to him, if only because
Speaker 1: it's so weird, because if there's villains, wouldn't they you know,
Speaker 1: it was so strange because they're cheering him on because
Speaker 1: he's so bad. I mean, the whole thing was so bizarre. Um,
Speaker 1: So I was just fascinated by that ad. But you know,
Speaker 1: I think, you know, I agree with Doug, you know
Speaker 1: Rice and and Mace. You know, I think Rice, because
Speaker 1: of his district, they this may go to a runoff.
Speaker 1: Mace has been a lot less vocal um. Of course.
Speaker 1: You know, her third day in Congress, she votes to
Speaker 1: certify the election, you know, getting Trump's you know, you know,
Speaker 1: vitriol and anger, and now she's got this opponent who
Speaker 1: she claims is is not electable. So you know, Mace
Speaker 1: also has a very different district, so I think she's
Speaker 1: probably got a slightly easier shot. But again, it's going
Speaker 1: to be fascinating to watch. And then of course, as
Speaker 1: you go over to Nevada, You've got Adam Laxol, who's
Speaker 1: got Trump's endorsement, but he's coming up against this you know,
Speaker 1: Sam Brown, this newcomer who's outspending him and who also,
Speaker 1: fascinatingly enough, is a real you know, a real person
Speaker 1: who has been pushing this idea that the election was stolen.
Speaker 1: And his criticism of lax All is that Laxol did
Speaker 1: file a lawsuit, but he lost, and shame on him
Speaker 1: for losing that he should have won. So you know,
Speaker 1: it's almost like who can out maga who at this point, Well,
Speaker 1: that's I guess that's true, Doug. I mean, it's it's
Speaker 1: shades of revenge here when it comes to Tom Right.
Speaker 1: And you you mentioned Nancy Mace. First, she did not
Speaker 1: vote to impeach Donald Trump, but she did criticize him
Speaker 1: for January six and has been paying for it ever since.
Speaker 1: It got to the point, thug, and I'm you probably
Speaker 1: saw the video she went to New York. In fact,
Speaker 1: we spoke with her that same day and she stood
Speaker 1: in front of Trump Tower to take a selfie video
Speaker 1: to try to set the record straight on the fact
Speaker 1: that she, in fact, she supported Donald Trump's policies. I mean,
Speaker 1: this is really something for him to be inspired to
Speaker 1: endorse a candidate against her even though she didn't vote
Speaker 1: to impeach. Yeah. Absolutely, And you know, it's it's interesting
Speaker 1: because what we see so often is regardless of your
Speaker 1: Trump nominates or endorses that a lot of the Republicans
Speaker 1: are going to run to be as trumpy as they
Speaker 1: can be. Anyways, Clearly that was the Pennsylvania Senate primary
Speaker 1: and right, so that's that's a real factor. Look, Republicans
Speaker 1: know that the that the base of power is essentially
Speaker 1: around Donald Trump, even if it doesn't follow specifically whom
Speaker 1: Trump endorses or doesn't endorse. Madison Kawthorne, for instance, lost
Speaker 1: in North Carolina to Chuck Edwards. So Republicans are looking
Speaker 1: to see, you know, what is the size of the
Speaker 1: Trump electorate and generally the Trump endorsement carries a third
Speaker 1: and then we'll see from there and can they nominate
Speaker 1: Republicans who can win in November? And that's first and
Speaker 1: foremost on their mind, the big question, right. Analysis from
Speaker 1: Doug Hi Genie Chanzano. Thanks to you both for being
Speaker 1: our panel these last couple of days. Happy primary Day
Speaker 1: will have results tomorrow. I'm Joe Matthew, this is Bloomberg,