WEBVTT - Why did the rom-com genre fall off? 0:00:11.640 --> 0:00:12.059 I'm Manny. 0:00:12.080 --> 0:00:12.780 I'm Noah. 0:00:12.920 --> 0:00:13.400 This is Devin. 0:00:13.900 --> 0:00:16.060 And this is No Such Thing, the show where we 0:00:16.079 --> 0:00:19.860 settle our dumb arguments and yours by actually doing the research. 0:00:20.450 --> 0:00:27.570 On today's episode, what happened to the rom-com? There's no 0:00:27.610 --> 0:00:28.110 such thing. 0:00:28.150 --> 0:00:29.850 No such thing. 0:00:29.870 --> 0:00:38.800 No such thing. No such thing. No such thing. 0:00:43.650 --> 0:00:47.330 All right, fellas, we're here to answer this question, what 0:00:47.350 --> 0:00:50.300 happened to the rom-com genre of film? We're joined by 0:00:50.409 --> 0:00:52.580 Emmanuel Jochi. Thanks for joining us. 0:00:52.720 --> 0:00:53.780 Thank you for having me, guys. 0:00:54.040 --> 0:00:59.820 Emmanuel's primarily an esteemed journalist whose distinctive voice you've probably 0:00:59.860 --> 0:01:03.540 heard on shows like Serial, Reply All, and This American Life. 0:01:04.400 --> 0:01:08.500 But you're secondarily someone who I'm surprised has not been 0:01:08.560 --> 0:01:12.790 on this show yet. We're like on 80 episodes. You're 0:01:13.310 --> 0:01:16.110 not only an amazing journalist, but you're also one of 0:01:16.150 --> 0:01:18.000 my good friends. So thanks for joining us for this one. 0:01:18.010 --> 0:01:21.220 Thank you for finally inviting me to your place of work, man. 0:01:21.260 --> 0:01:22.539 We got it done. 0:01:22.580 --> 0:01:23.640 Were you ashamed of me? 0:01:23.819 --> 0:01:25.140 No, no, no, no, no. 0:01:25.740 --> 0:01:29.270 Ashamed of me, if anything. You co-host this show, Big Lives. 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:33.470 You did this episode specifically about Meg Ryan. and her 0:01:33.500 --> 0:01:36.290 relationship to the rom-com. Can you just tell us a 0:01:36.310 --> 0:01:38.850 little bit about your show and about that episode? 0:01:38.990 --> 0:01:39.550 Yeah, sure. 0:01:39.610 --> 0:01:42.430 So Big Lives is a show that I host in 0:01:42.470 --> 0:01:46.910 partnership with Kyrite, who's also a fantastic journalist. And it's 0:01:46.930 --> 0:01:50.790 a show from the BBC and Pushkin Industries. And basically 0:01:50.830 --> 0:01:53.230 the whole premise of the show is we revisit the 0:01:53.270 --> 0:01:57.460 legacies of our biggest icons via the lens of the 0:01:57.500 --> 0:02:00.910 BBC's vast archive. And I don't know, like a while 0:02:00.950 --> 0:02:03.070 ago when we were coming up with ideas for episodes, 0:02:03.450 --> 0:02:05.910 we were talking about like, okay, who could we profile? 0:02:06.290 --> 0:02:09.310 And I just mentioned to like our producers, you know what? 0:02:09.810 --> 0:02:14.440 I love rom-coms. And I really, really would be interested 0:02:14.460 --> 0:02:16.940 to know if there was stuff about Meg Ryan in 0:02:16.960 --> 0:02:17.919 the BBC archives. 0:02:18.139 --> 0:02:19.900 You know, I'm so glad I never got involved with you. 0:02:20.740 --> 0:02:22.360 I just would have ended up being some woman you 0:02:22.380 --> 0:02:23.620 had to get up out of bed and leave at 0:02:23.639 --> 0:02:25.799 three o'clock in the morning and go clean your andirons. 0:02:26.280 --> 0:02:28.320 You are a human affront to all women and I. 0:02:28.300 --> 0:02:30.510 Am a woman. And what I kind of stumbled into was, 0:02:30.630 --> 0:02:35.710 for me, a real explanation for A, why Meg Ryan 0:02:35.750 --> 0:02:38.589 stopped being in as many movies as like she was 0:02:38.669 --> 0:02:41.269 at like kind of the height of her stardom, but 0:02:41.389 --> 0:02:44.309 also kind of what happened to the entire genre she 0:02:44.330 --> 0:02:47.790 was the biggest star of. My theory basically was one, 0:02:48.030 --> 0:02:52.329 we all fundamentally misunderstood like the movies that this woman 0:02:52.370 --> 0:02:55.859 was in. Like all of her big hits, like When 0:02:55.900 --> 0:02:59.380 Harry Met Sally, Sleeps in Seattle, like You've Got Mail, 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:03.220 like that's often referred to as like the golden period 0:03:03.260 --> 0:03:07.380 of rom-coms. I just felt like when she exited the stage, 0:03:07.760 --> 0:03:09.990 like we also kind of pushed her off the stage. 0:03:11.230 --> 0:03:13.510 And yeah, for me, I was just like, oh, that 0:03:13.550 --> 0:03:15.950 told me a lot about why we don't make movies 0:03:16.130 --> 0:03:17.150 like this. Yeah. 0:03:17.210 --> 0:03:20.630 So to figure out how we, the audience, pushed Meg 0:03:20.669 --> 0:03:24.100 Ryan off of the rom-com stage, definitely go check out 0:03:24.540 --> 0:03:27.160 the Meg Ryan episode of Big Lives. It's really fascinating. Now, 0:03:27.919 --> 0:03:30.090 In this episode, we have to come to some slightly 0:03:30.100 --> 0:03:32.250 different conclusions so as not to just copy off of 0:03:32.290 --> 0:03:34.930 what Big Lives did. 0:03:35.390 --> 0:03:36.270 Hey, much appreciated. 0:03:36.310 --> 0:03:38.970 And so I'll just start by giving you guys a 0:03:38.990 --> 0:03:42.500 little bit of background on the numbers for the rom-com. 0:03:43.040 --> 0:03:45.740 These numbers are from Box Office Mojo, which is an 0:03:45.860 --> 0:03:48.270 outlet that just tracks box office numbers in Hollywood. Yes. 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:51.869 And according to them, the rom-com first began to rise 0:03:52.010 --> 0:03:56.029 in the 1980s, before it exploded in the 90s with 0:03:56.070 --> 0:04:00.350 some of the movies that Emmanuel just brought up. In 1995, 0:04:00.350 --> 0:04:06.380 the rom-com genre cumulatively made over $ 1 billion at the 0:04:06.420 --> 0:04:10.740 domestic box office. That's adjusted for inflation. They kept rising. 0:04:10.780 --> 0:04:16.520 They peaked in 2002 with $ 1. 6 billion domestic dollars. And 0:04:16.540 --> 0:04:18.220 then for reasons that we're going to get into in 0:04:18.580 --> 0:04:22.640 this episode, there began a steady decline in box office 0:04:22.680 --> 0:04:26.820 sales until 2011 when this genre just fully just dropped 0:04:26.839 --> 0:04:29.520 off a cliff. For the past 10 to 15 years 0:04:29.560 --> 0:04:34.430 or so, rom-coms bring in less than $ 200 million a year. 0:04:34.940 --> 0:04:37.469 You know, just for some perspective here, $ 200 million is 0:04:37.490 --> 0:04:40.710 like the budget of your average Marvel movie or big 0:04:41.290 --> 0:04:45.710 action movie. So that's really sad. That's a huge drop off. Now- 0:04:46.240 --> 0:04:49.900 I have a confession. I'm not really a big rom-com guy. 0:04:50.900 --> 0:04:53.870 It's not a stance, so to speak. I just haven't 0:04:54.170 --> 0:04:56.790 naturally encountered this genre. 0:04:56.810 --> 0:04:58.110 Manny's like, I'm not into politics. 0:04:58.290 --> 0:04:59.210 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:05:00.170 --> 0:05:01.950 Not really into rom-com. 0:05:02.029 --> 0:05:04.130 I never wanted to be a movie activist. I just 0:05:04.170 --> 0:05:05.290 wanted to make good content. 0:05:06.950 --> 0:05:09.040 And so before we get into the why, I want 0:05:09.070 --> 0:05:12.200 to know what your guys' favorite rom-coms are and why. 0:05:12.660 --> 0:05:14.040 Let's start with Devin. 0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:18.610 Okay. I picked two. One from this classic era, which 0:05:18.730 --> 0:05:20.970 is The Parent Trap. You know who this is? 0:05:21.690 --> 0:05:25.630 Actually, yes. And actually, I'm not Hallie. 0:05:26.010 --> 0:05:26.510 Come on. 0:05:26.630 --> 0:05:27.250 I have seen that. 0:05:27.310 --> 0:05:30.470 Lindsay Lohan playing two roles. As a kid, I thought 0:05:30.510 --> 0:05:31.289 it was two different actresses. 0:05:31.310 --> 0:05:32.890 Me too. It took me a long time. 0:05:33.290 --> 0:05:35.010 I was a little too old. They are so talented, 0:05:35.029 --> 0:05:38.060 both of them. I haven't seen these two girls in 0:05:38.100 --> 0:05:41.540 anything else. Just the one is in a lot of stuff. 0:05:41.779 --> 0:05:44.680 Dennis Quaid. It's a Nancy Meyers classic. 0:05:45.940 --> 0:05:49.920 Married meg ryan right yeah yes okay wow oh wow 0:05:49.940 --> 0:05:52.140 i did not know that yeah a lot of meg 0:05:52.190 --> 0:05:55.710 ryan connections here that guy on uh the boys jack 0:05:55.770 --> 0:05:58.510 quaid is meg ryan's son i believe yes wow yes. 0:05:58.750 --> 0:06:01.059 Wow And then I'm going to pick something a little 0:06:01.080 --> 0:06:03.440 bit more recent, which is I feel like the direction 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:05.960 the rom-coms have gone now, which is the To All 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:10.160 the Boys I've Loved series, which is the Netflix rom-coms. 0:06:10.180 --> 0:06:12.229 I haven't considered TV show rom-coms. 0:06:12.310 --> 0:06:15.090 I feel like that's what's happening now. A lot of 0:06:15.150 --> 0:06:17.070 rom-coms are now just on streaming. 0:06:17.250 --> 0:06:17.770 That's smart. 0:06:17.790 --> 0:06:18.050 Yeah. 0:06:18.529 --> 0:06:21.820 It's great. It's stupid. It's not the quality of, let's say, 0:06:21.900 --> 0:06:24.160 a parent trap, but it's good to turn your brain 0:06:24.339 --> 0:06:27.320 off and get out your feelings. 0:06:27.339 --> 0:06:28.580 You feel good at the end of the movie. 0:06:28.620 --> 0:06:29.680 Yeah, exactly. 0:06:29.800 --> 0:06:30.640 Yeah, that makes sense. 0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:31.060 Noah? 0:06:31.850 --> 0:06:34.589 Mine would be Annie Hall, which is not only probably 0:06:34.610 --> 0:06:37.150 my favorite rom-com, but maybe my favorite movie. 0:06:37.550 --> 0:06:41.110 I'm very shallow and empty, and I have no ideas 0:06:41.150 --> 0:06:44.580 and nothing interesting to say. And I'm exactly the same way. 0:06:45.440 --> 0:06:46.120 I see. 0:06:46.220 --> 0:06:49.360 Well, that's very interesting. So you've managed to work out something, huh? 0:06:49.740 --> 0:06:51.610 We separate the art and the artists here at No 0:06:51.640 --> 0:06:52.060 Such Thing. 0:06:52.250 --> 0:06:54.210 But yeah, to me, it's... You didn't know any better 0:06:54.310 --> 0:06:58.650 at the time. Yeah. To me, every scene has kind 0:06:58.670 --> 0:07:01.210 of a dramatic or narrative purpose, but it's also funny. 0:07:01.970 --> 0:07:05.150 And the actual kind of romance and love stories, very 0:07:05.270 --> 0:07:08.290 nice and sweet, but also quite melancholic in that they 0:07:08.310 --> 0:07:10.640 kind of... you know, it's not a happy ending, which 0:07:10.680 --> 0:07:13.700 is a little bit more interesting to me than maybe 0:07:13.760 --> 0:07:18.280 many rom-coms which feel a little predetermined where there's kind 0:07:18.320 --> 0:07:20.220 of fake tension and then you know they're going to 0:07:20.240 --> 0:07:22.700 get together, which is also nice, obviously, in its own way. 0:07:22.740 --> 0:07:24.520 Annie Hall's one of my big blind spots. I've actually 0:07:24.560 --> 0:07:25.990 never seen that and I'm going to watch it now 0:07:26.050 --> 0:07:27.270 based on this recommendation. 0:07:27.810 --> 0:07:30.810 All I took was Noah during the podcast and. 0:07:30.770 --> 0:07:31.850 That Not just that. 0:07:31.910 --> 0:07:33.950 Hundreds and hundreds of people talking about how it was 0:07:34.010 --> 0:07:35.390 one of the greatest movies of all time. 0:07:35.970 --> 0:07:39.980 A recommendation from a good friend is often what it takes. 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:44.840 My favorite rom-com, I think it's going to have to 0:07:44.880 --> 0:07:47.980 be one of the ones that was playing on BET 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:52.920 growing up. We're talking about The Wood or Loving basketball. 0:07:53.420 --> 0:07:54.100 All her life. 0:07:54.260 --> 0:07:57.040 I keep hoping you'll grow out of this tomboy thing. 0:07:57.580 --> 0:07:59.400 People said she wasn't good enough. 0:07:59.420 --> 0:08:02.220 Maybe it's time you start thinking about other things besides basketball. 0:08:02.500 --> 0:08:02.860 What? 0:08:02.960 --> 0:08:09.140 But nothing could stop her from making her dreams come true. 0:08:10.020 --> 0:08:11.860 Love and Basketball is a horror movie. 0:08:12.000 --> 0:08:13.100 Yeah. 0:08:13.120 --> 0:08:14.560 You're saying that's not a rom-com. 0:08:14.720 --> 0:08:14.920 No. 0:08:15.100 --> 0:08:17.640 I mean, I rewatched that recently and it's like one 0:08:17.690 --> 0:08:21.810 of those movies where every choice each of the protagonists makes, 0:08:21.910 --> 0:08:24.450 you're like, that was the wrong choice. 0:08:24.870 --> 0:08:25.890 He like never learns. 0:08:26.350 --> 0:08:28.810 Never. There's no growth. There's no growth. 0:08:28.890 --> 0:08:31.530 In the end, basically, I'm sorry, I'm going to ruin 0:08:31.570 --> 0:08:35.650 the movie. Basically, the actress Sanaa Lathan just kind of 0:08:35.710 --> 0:08:39.209 gives in to being with this ancient dude. Damn. 0:08:40.000 --> 0:08:43.240 Okay, Emmanuel, your turn. What are some of your favorite rom-coms? 0:08:43.660 --> 0:08:45.620 I'm glad you said some because it would be really 0:08:45.640 --> 0:08:46.820 difficult for me to pick one. 0:08:46.840 --> 0:08:48.540 Yeah, you're a big rom-com enjoyer. 0:08:48.559 --> 0:08:49.480 Big rom-com. 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:52.300 We were like a let's watch a rom-com every weekend 0:08:52.440 --> 0:08:53.060 kind of family. 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:55.340 Oh, wow. That's really sweet. And we had like. 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:57.439 Multiple different versions of all of these movies. We had 0:08:57.480 --> 0:09:01.479 like The VHS version. Then we had the DVD version. 0:09:01.580 --> 0:09:04.800 Then we had the bootleg from the barbershop illegal version. 0:09:04.850 --> 0:09:08.170 Where the people were walking by. 0:09:08.190 --> 0:09:10.390 They go into the theater and like literally video tape. 0:09:10.410 --> 0:09:11.690 Yes, with the actual video camera. 0:09:12.170 --> 0:09:12.809 The screening. 0:09:12.870 --> 0:09:15.449 Crazy. A couple of those. 0:09:15.650 --> 0:09:18.550 But yeah, I would say, you know, when Harry Met Sally, 0:09:19.410 --> 0:09:22.890 I adore that movie. It is like such a perfect film. 0:09:23.590 --> 0:09:24.210 Moonstruck. 0:09:24.500 --> 0:09:24.890 Oh, yeah. 0:09:24.929 --> 0:09:25.810 I was thinking about that one too. 0:09:25.820 --> 0:09:27.320 Is another one that I really, really love. 0:09:27.750 --> 0:09:29.809 All right, so then let's try and get to the 0:09:29.850 --> 0:09:32.100 bottom of why these movies kind of just fell off 0:09:32.340 --> 0:09:36.420 in terms of not just like cultural popularity, but also, yeah, 0:09:36.460 --> 0:09:39.600 the dollar amount. And so after the break, we're going 0:09:39.620 --> 0:09:43.179 to talk to NST favorite Walt Hickey. He's been on 0:09:43.200 --> 0:09:45.760 a couple of episodes before this one. He's the author 0:09:45.960 --> 0:09:48.710 of You Are What You Watch, How Movies and TV 0:09:48.780 --> 0:09:51.569 Affect Everything. And he's going to tell us what happened 0:09:51.610 --> 0:09:56.840 to this once mighty genre film. Stick around. Thank you. 0:10:04.760 --> 0:10:05.620 All right, we're back. 0:10:05.800 --> 0:10:06.320 I'm Manny. 0:10:06.860 --> 0:10:09.340 Noah is filling up his coffee, but Noah's here. 0:10:09.360 --> 0:10:10.680 Devin. 0:10:11.540 --> 0:10:16.360 And we're still here with Emmanuel Jochi. and we're about 0:10:16.380 --> 0:10:18.140 to hear from Walt Hickey. 0:10:18.460 --> 0:10:20.900 Hi, I am Walt Hickey, and I am the author 0:10:20.960 --> 0:10:22.079 of You Are What You Watch. 0:10:22.520 --> 0:10:26.030 I had a conversation with Walt during which he indicated 0:10:26.410 --> 0:10:31.670 three main reasons why the rom-com genre has fallen off. 0:10:32.250 --> 0:10:36.220 The first reason has to do with the economics of 0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:36.939 the movie industry. 0:10:39.640 --> 0:10:43.260 So the economics of the movie business are very clear, right? 0:10:43.300 --> 0:10:46.630 Like we make movies not out of simply love of 0:10:46.670 --> 0:10:49.100 the art form. We make movies because the people who 0:10:49.280 --> 0:10:51.180 produce those movies intend to make money off of them. 0:10:51.650 --> 0:10:53.270 And oftentimes the amount of money that they intend to 0:10:53.550 --> 0:10:55.550 make off of them is an order of magnitude higher 0:10:55.610 --> 0:10:57.200 than the amount that they put in. They want to 0:10:57.240 --> 0:11:01.080 spend $ 20 million on a movie and then make $ 200 0:11:00.340 --> 0:11:02.180 million on it so that they pay for the budget 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:05.000 and the distribution and the international. And then they have 0:11:05.100 --> 0:11:07.700 money on top in revenue. So people want to see 0:11:07.720 --> 0:11:10.439 a nice and healthy return. The thing is that you 0:11:10.540 --> 0:11:12.390 used to be able to kind of release a movie 0:11:12.610 --> 0:11:15.970 in cinemas that made $ 50 million on a $ 20 million budget. 0:11:18.640 --> 0:11:20.319 And even though that's kind of cutting it close, it 0:11:20.340 --> 0:11:23.699 would be okay because we had the DVD system. People 0:11:23.780 --> 0:11:26.730 kind of forget how big DVD and home video was. 0:11:27.350 --> 0:11:29.929 DVD and home video was bigger than the box office. 0:11:30.030 --> 0:11:35.309 DVD and home video for a time was really significantly larger. Basically, 0:11:35.530 --> 0:11:40.459 people spent about $ 10 billion on in 1990 on, you know, tapes, DVD, 0:11:40.559 --> 0:11:44.210 video at home, that kind of stuff. By 2004, they 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:47.110 peaked at around 24 billion, 25 billion. And then lately 0:11:47.190 --> 0:11:49.429 it has been absolutely, it's down to under a billion. 0:11:49.710 --> 0:11:51.770 Like truly, it is a 10th of the size that 0:11:51.790 --> 0:11:55.089 it was in 1990. There is no money really in 0:11:55.150 --> 0:11:58.370 this as a significant backend. As a result, that changes 0:11:58.410 --> 0:12:00.829 the economics of what movies can get made. You haven't 0:12:00.870 --> 0:12:03.510 just seen this in rom-coms because rom-coms are a very 0:12:03.550 --> 0:12:06.460 good example of you can put a Between $ 50 and 0:12:06.460 --> 0:12:08.340 $ 100 million, you can call it a success because you'll 0:12:08.380 --> 0:12:10.079 sell a lot of DVDs on it. You'll sell a 0:12:10.100 --> 0:12:12.000 lot of blockbuster rentals on it. You see this in 0:12:12.020 --> 0:12:16.260 studio comedies. That Apatow movie era coincided with this peak 0:12:16.280 --> 0:12:19.480 of the DVD era, right? You see it on basically 0:12:19.520 --> 0:12:21.900 that kind of like middle class of movies. And so 0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:24.440 what we've kind of seen since then is the disintegration 0:12:24.460 --> 0:12:26.780 of that middle class. And the only movies that get 0:12:26.820 --> 0:12:30.240 made are either the like 8 to 12 Big Ten 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:32.010 pulls that a studio is betting on. 0:12:32.530 --> 0:12:32.750 Right? 0:12:32.890 --> 0:12:34.589 You have a couple big movies that you're kind of 0:12:34.610 --> 0:12:37.610 betting the house on every single year. And then you 0:12:37.650 --> 0:12:40.699 are buying 15 lottery tickets. And these are movies made 0:12:40.760 --> 0:12:44.240 for pocket change that will either make $ 0 and nobody 0:12:44.280 --> 0:12:47.360 gets fired or they become obsession, right? And they're all 0:12:47.380 --> 0:12:49.160 of a sudden a huge breakout hit and they are 0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:52.160 able to be a lottery ticket, right? And as a result, 0:12:52.200 --> 0:12:53.890 the middle class of movies just straight up doesn't get 0:12:53.929 --> 0:12:55.690 made anymore. If you think of like, what was the 0:12:55.730 --> 0:12:59.230 most recent successful romantic comedy? And like, you're kind of 0:12:59.250 --> 0:13:02.860 thinking like, La La Land, maybe. And so it's tough 0:13:02.900 --> 0:13:06.110 to kind of find a situation where you're getting the 0:13:06.290 --> 0:13:09.890 ROI that you need, especially when your dollar is better 0:13:09.929 --> 0:13:13.750 spent on either that higher end $ 100, $ 200 million movie, 0:13:13.790 --> 0:13:16.250 that Avengers movie, or that low end where you're buying 0:13:16.270 --> 0:13:18.309 a bunch of lottery tickets rather than kind of middle class. 0:13:19.330 --> 0:13:23.950 So basically, filmmakers are not incentivized to make rom-coms anymore. 0:13:23.990 --> 0:13:27.380 They're not incentivized to make any kind of middle budget 0:13:27.460 --> 0:13:31.970 movie and rom-coms happen to be in that bracket. 0:13:31.670 --> 0:13:34.510 It tracks also the thing you were saying earlier about 0:13:34.570 --> 0:13:37.480 just like where you consume romantic comedies now you watch 0:13:37.500 --> 0:13:41.800 them on streaming and streaming like has overtaken it's taken 0:13:41.870 --> 0:13:44.510 a place in our lives that like video rental or 0:13:44.550 --> 0:13:48.370 DVD rental stores or all those sales you used to take, honestly. 0:13:48.630 --> 0:13:52.330 We used to spend, what, $ 15, $ 20 on one DVD. 0:13:53.110 --> 0:13:55.740 Now you're spending that per month for unlimited content. 0:13:55.940 --> 0:13:58.699 Yeah, I hadn't realized just how much of a contribution 0:13:58.740 --> 0:14:01.780 DVD sales and that market was making, but that makes 0:14:01.820 --> 0:14:06.560 complete sense because you don't get anything if you make 0:14:06.620 --> 0:14:10.160 a movie and then it does well on Netflix, like 0:14:10.460 --> 0:14:14.020 comparatively to like what it would have made on DVD 0:14:14.059 --> 0:14:15.080 probably is my guess. 0:14:15.400 --> 0:14:18.920 Yeah. And because this has pretty much gotten rid of 0:14:18.980 --> 0:14:22.520 that middle budget film. I mean, what are some other 0:14:22.540 --> 0:14:24.490 genres that we don't really see anymore? Like one of 0:14:24.500 --> 0:14:26.570 them I was thinking is like Western movies. You don't 0:14:26.590 --> 0:14:30.390 really see those. You'll see like modern day Westerns, but like, 0:14:30.430 --> 0:14:32.350 I can't remember the last one that was like, you know, 0:14:32.430 --> 0:14:34.830 cowboys and Indians kind of stuff. 0:14:34.990 --> 0:14:35.810 I feel like we get one a year. 0:14:36.380 --> 0:14:41.520 Yeah, I think that's a political shift more than. 0:14:41.540 --> 0:14:42.800 Than a budget thing. 0:14:43.630 --> 0:14:45.750 I mean, kind of. I think it's harder to do 0:14:45.990 --> 0:14:51.170 now for good reason. What do you mean? I mean, like, 0:14:51.530 --> 0:14:56.710 Unforgiven from 1992 or whatever was like an anti-Western. And 0:14:57.330 --> 0:15:01.840 that was, you know, almost 40 years ago. Right. You 0:15:01.860 --> 0:15:04.680 can only kind of grind from that stone so much 0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:05.520 in a way. 0:15:05.640 --> 0:15:05.960 And like. 0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:09.040 The more time passes, I think we're less interested in 0:15:09.080 --> 0:15:12.620 that era of time. Of time. Of those focuses. But 0:15:12.680 --> 0:15:16.660 even then, it's like, what is Yellowstone? Oh, yeah. I mean, yeah. 0:15:16.710 --> 0:15:18.490 That's kind of the flip. Yeah, for sure. 0:15:18.510 --> 0:15:20.490 Then on the flip, you have all of the Sheridan 0:15:20.510 --> 0:15:22.750 properties where you're just like, okay, I guess that is 0:15:22.810 --> 0:15:26.390 scratching that itch. Yeah, that's a good point. And again, 0:15:26.450 --> 0:15:30.070 it's streaming. But for you, I'm curious, if there were 0:15:30.090 --> 0:15:33.370 romantic comedies that you watch as TV shows... weren't on 0:15:33.410 --> 0:15:35.330 Netflix and were in the movie. 0:15:35.710 --> 0:15:36.490 Would you go see them? 0:15:36.510 --> 0:15:38.340 Would you pay money to go see them? 0:15:40.910 --> 0:15:43.690 Yeah, well, I see a lot of stuff just because 0:15:43.710 --> 0:15:46.570 I have a Regal Pass so I can see unlimited movies. 0:15:46.750 --> 0:15:49.000 And it feels like it's free even though I'm paying. 0:15:49.020 --> 0:15:51.290 But if you're prioritizing movies, are you going to look at, 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:53.640 you know, The Odyssey or are you going to go to– 0:15:53.800 --> 0:15:54.820 That's a good point. 0:15:55.060 --> 0:15:57.800 You did go see– this was like a year ago. 0:15:58.300 --> 0:16:00.770 The twist was that he was getting a leg lengthening. 0:16:00.790 --> 0:16:01.730 Oh, Materialist. 0:16:01.790 --> 0:16:03.670 Materialist, yeah. I think you saw that in theaters. 0:16:03.690 --> 0:16:07.550 I did. I'm sorry. But that's– yeah. Wasn't great, but 0:16:07.590 --> 0:16:10.489 I didn't see it. I guess it was supposed to 0:16:10.530 --> 0:16:11.490 be a rom-com, but. 0:16:11.350 --> 0:16:12.890 It wasn't really funny. That one, I don't know. I 0:16:12.890 --> 0:16:15.150 don't think it really was. I think that's kind of 0:16:15.210 --> 0:16:18.570 a marketing issue. I mean, there's humor in it, but 0:16:18.590 --> 0:16:20.650 I don't think it was like, I feel like that 0:16:20.690 --> 0:16:23.810 was more the discussion around it. But I don't know 0:16:23.870 --> 0:16:27.850 if the filmmaker was trying to do a 90s rom-com 0:16:28.590 --> 0:16:30.410 with that. There was definitely. 0:16:29.850 --> 0:16:33.610 Nodding to it, for sure. But there's montages where they're 0:16:33.650 --> 0:16:34.910 definitely trying to get laughs. 0:16:35.410 --> 0:16:37.340 Yeah, I mean, I'm not saying there's not, I just think, 0:16:37.380 --> 0:16:38.360 I don't think it was trying to be a Meg 0:16:38.400 --> 0:16:40.580 Ryan movie, like, to me. That makes sense. 0:16:40.880 --> 0:16:41.940 I think she was. 0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:46.360 Really? I don't think it was going for, like, broad comedy. 0:16:46.480 --> 0:16:48.740 I think it was thought, I think she thought she 0:16:48.780 --> 0:16:52.100 was on her Annie Hall, you know, like, I really do. 0:16:52.300 --> 0:16:53.940 I think it was a failed attempt. I think the 0:16:53.980 --> 0:16:55.320 issue with that movie is the tone is all over 0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:58.890 the place. Maybe, yeah. Right, right, right. you don't really 0:16:58.930 --> 0:17:02.270 believe any of the relationships, which is core to a rom-com. 0:17:03.100 --> 0:17:04.860 But it's, I think part of what we're talking about 0:17:04.900 --> 0:17:07.840 is that there's so few of them now or things 0:17:07.880 --> 0:17:11.520 that could be considered rom-coms that like, we're talking about 0:17:11.540 --> 0:17:13.760 a very limited amount of movies. You're talking about like 0:17:13.780 --> 0:17:16.340 two movies a year that were like, oh, that didn't 0:17:16.380 --> 0:17:17.680 quite work. And it's like, all right. 0:17:17.700 --> 0:17:17.920 Yeah. 0:17:17.980 --> 0:17:19.240 Cause there was only two or three of them. If 0:17:19.260 --> 0:17:21.350 you're making, you know, 50 of them a year, you 0:17:21.380 --> 0:17:23.890 have a lot more opportunities. I feel like all genres 0:17:23.950 --> 0:17:26.560 of movie are, have sort of you know like comedies 0:17:26.619 --> 0:17:28.940 we're making a lot less of like horror is kind 0:17:29.060 --> 0:17:32.120 of the only genre that is still making a lot 0:17:32.140 --> 0:17:34.260 of but it's because you can make a horror movie 0:17:34.280 --> 0:17:37.340 for really cheap yeah so it's like to the waltz 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:39.820 point like the lottery sort of thing but i feel 0:17:39.859 --> 0:17:42.859 like we just have just there's less movies being made period. 0:17:42.619 --> 0:17:45.160 Now than it were before i also think that's true 0:17:45.619 --> 0:17:47.739 um well i guess this is getting to the meg 0:17:47.800 --> 0:17:50.649 ryan of it maybe but rom-coms are so dependent on 0:17:50.710 --> 0:17:54.310 the main cast in a way that horror movies aren't. Where, like, Obsession, 0:17:54.350 --> 0:17:55.790 no one knew who these kids were. 0:17:55.810 --> 0:17:55.879 Yep. 0:17:57.470 --> 0:18:02.200 You need to really like, especially the woman lead of, like, 0:18:02.220 --> 0:18:04.280 it needs to be Julia Roberts or Meg Ryan. And, like, 0:18:04.940 --> 0:18:07.000 I feel like people turn so quickly, especially on, like, 0:18:07.040 --> 0:18:10.030 whoever the, like, hot woman is of the time. This 0:18:10.070 --> 0:18:11.770 was the Sidney Sweeney problem. Yeah, like, you're not going 0:18:11.790 --> 0:18:14.869 to get them for more than maybe one movie before, like, 0:18:15.250 --> 0:18:18.430 men and or women... decide they hate them and don't 0:18:18.470 --> 0:18:19.910 want to support them. 0:18:19.930 --> 0:18:21.590 Yeah, with like oversaturation. 0:18:21.730 --> 0:18:25.090 Yeah, oversaturation or whatever else. It's like, so I don't 0:18:25.130 --> 0:18:26.450 know if that's relevant. 0:18:27.450 --> 0:18:33.199 All interesting points. But Walt's second reason for why the 0:18:33.260 --> 0:18:37.620 rom-com genre has fallen off has to do with competition. 0:18:37.660 --> 0:18:39.680 So we talked a little bit about this, about all 0:18:39.700 --> 0:18:43.250 of the available things on streaming apps. So let's hear 0:18:43.270 --> 0:18:44.270 what Walt has to say. 0:18:44.580 --> 0:18:47.619 So one reason that rom-coms are on the decline is 0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:50.980 just the strategic elements of what a box office movie 0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:55.159 has to be now. You're competing against everything ever. The 0:18:55.220 --> 0:18:59.070 backlist has become so much more significant in all facets 0:18:59.310 --> 0:19:02.290 of economics and entertainment. And this applies to books, and 0:19:02.310 --> 0:19:04.970 this applies to movies, and this applies to television. If 0:19:05.010 --> 0:19:08.560 you release a television sitcom right now, you have to 0:19:08.600 --> 0:19:12.359 compete against Seinfeld, right? Whereas back in the day, if 0:19:12.420 --> 0:19:15.900 you just had to be better than the other three 0:19:15.980 --> 0:19:20.240 networks seven o'clock show, now it's where is my hour 0:19:20.280 --> 0:19:22.659 going to? Do I want to watch this new sitcom 0:19:22.720 --> 0:19:24.990 or do I just want to watch Seinfeld? And that 0:19:25.050 --> 0:19:27.590 is the case in every single thing. The book backlist, 0:19:27.609 --> 0:19:29.550 it used to be a 50-50, right? People used to 0:19:29.590 --> 0:19:32.070 spend 50% of the money on new books that had 0:19:32.109 --> 0:19:34.010 come out in the past year and then 50% of 0:19:34.030 --> 0:19:35.909 their money on backlist books that had come out in 0:19:35.950 --> 0:19:38.420 the past because of things like Amazon, because you don't 0:19:38.720 --> 0:19:41.359 have shelf space anymore in bookstores, you have online space, 0:19:41.740 --> 0:19:45.909 the backlist is now 60%, 66% of what people are 0:19:45.930 --> 0:19:48.110 spending money on, because now a new book doesn't just 0:19:48.170 --> 0:19:50.790 have to compete with the other books out. They have 0:19:50.810 --> 0:19:53.630 to compete with every book that's ever been written. And 0:19:53.800 --> 0:19:57.359 in the movies, this is really hard. You're asking Glenn 0:19:57.400 --> 0:20:00.399 Powell and Sidney Sweeney to compete against Meg Ryan and 0:20:00.420 --> 0:20:04.560 Tom Hanks. And they're excellent actors, and they're really good performers, 0:20:04.580 --> 0:20:07.240 and they have movie star capacity. But ultimately, it's really 0:20:07.300 --> 0:20:09.740 hard to bat against Babe Ruth. And at the end 0:20:09.760 --> 0:20:13.399 of the day, you're seeing this strategic problem with the 0:20:13.420 --> 0:20:17.449 streaming services, where it's not just them having to be 0:20:17.490 --> 0:20:20.109 the only way that you have this secondary form of distribution, 0:20:20.470 --> 0:20:23.390 but you're also just directly competing against the greatest that 0:20:23.450 --> 0:20:26.350 ever lived. And that's just a really hard environment. 0:20:25.890 --> 0:20:26.450 For new work. 0:20:26.770 --> 0:20:29.770 So this point really struck me because, you know, I 0:20:29.810 --> 0:20:33.070 can't tell you how many times I'll turn on HBO 0:20:33.570 --> 0:20:36.879 or Netflix in the search for something new to watch 0:20:36.990 --> 0:20:38.780 and then end up, you know, I guess I'll just 0:20:38.800 --> 0:20:42.440 watch this Christopher Nolan movie again. Or like, There's just 0:20:42.560 --> 0:20:46.239 so much of the best stuff ever that you have 0:20:46.280 --> 0:20:49.010 to compete with if you're trying to find something new. 0:20:49.369 --> 0:20:52.810 What ends up happening for me is I'll go on 0:20:53.030 --> 0:20:55.690 to HBO or something like that and I'll be like, 0:20:56.290 --> 0:20:59.490 I just want to watch something new. And I'll spend 0:20:59.690 --> 0:21:02.810 an inordinate amount of time trying to find something new. 0:21:03.210 --> 0:21:05.030 And so if there was something new that was good, 0:21:05.070 --> 0:21:09.250 I would watch it. But I do hear what he's saying, 0:21:09.270 --> 0:21:12.290 which is that what often ends up happening is if 0:21:12.350 --> 0:21:14.869 I can't find something that was made in the last 0:21:14.930 --> 0:21:18.169 few years, I'm watching a classic I haven't seen. 0:21:18.210 --> 0:21:18.710 New to you. 0:21:18.930 --> 0:21:20.109 That's the same. 0:21:20.250 --> 0:21:24.130 Exactly. But even then, it's a classic for a reason, 0:21:24.210 --> 0:21:25.520 and anything new coming. 0:21:25.410 --> 0:21:26.450 Out is going to have to compete. 0:21:26.520 --> 0:21:27.160 Yeah, it's been vetted. 0:21:27.200 --> 0:21:28.220 Right, right, right, right, right. 0:21:28.560 --> 0:21:32.200 We're going to turn to our resident film expert here, Noah, 0:21:32.359 --> 0:21:34.720 and I'll ask you, what is the percentage of new 0:21:34.780 --> 0:21:37.200 movies you're watching versus re-watches? 0:21:37.840 --> 0:21:39.780 So I'm at home deciding I can watch anything. 0:21:39.820 --> 0:21:40.619 Yeah. 0:21:42.760 --> 0:21:45.720 Percentage would probably be like 10% new things. 0:21:45.720 --> 0:21:46.280 10% new things. 0:21:46.320 --> 0:21:46.659 Yeah. 0:21:46.820 --> 0:21:46.939 Wow. 0:21:46.960 --> 0:21:49.100 Versus like new to me, older things. 0:21:49.200 --> 0:21:49.500 Wow. 0:21:50.200 --> 0:21:51.240 And you watch a lot of stuff. 0:21:52.260 --> 0:21:52.359 Yeah. 0:21:52.400 --> 0:21:54.580 I mean, maybe a couple of movies a week. 0:21:54.940 --> 0:21:55.280 Yeah. 0:21:55.300 --> 0:21:55.790 That's crazy. 0:21:55.920 --> 0:22:00.790 That's a lot. A couple of movies a week. 0:22:01.570 --> 0:22:04.189 So I think that just goes to show, it's like, wow, Noah, 0:22:04.230 --> 0:22:06.450 the person who I know who watches the most movies 0:22:06.510 --> 0:22:08.990 is only, only 10% of the movies he's watching are new. 0:22:09.060 --> 0:22:10.980 And I like, I try to keep up with new stuff, 0:22:11.020 --> 0:22:13.500 but it is like, it's hard to be like, here's 0:22:13.520 --> 0:22:15.320 something I'm pretty sure I'm definitely going to like versus 0:22:15.359 --> 0:22:17.639 something that I've seen the trailer for 10 times and 0:22:17.660 --> 0:22:20.139 was not compelled to go see in the theater. And 0:22:20.200 --> 0:22:22.139 I was like, yeah, do I really need to see 0:22:22.160 --> 0:22:25.910 the Adam Driver fighting dinosaurs movie from a couple years ago? 0:22:26.790 --> 0:22:29.170 Okay, Walt's third point is something we've touched on a 0:22:29.190 --> 0:22:32.790 little bit, which is just the lack of star power 0:22:33.270 --> 0:22:36.730 in these films, which is basically what your episode of 0:22:36.790 --> 0:22:39.950 Big Lives is about, which is the biggest rom-com actress 0:22:40.050 --> 0:22:41.710 left that genre. 0:22:42.240 --> 0:22:42.620 And then. 0:22:43.270 --> 0:22:45.810 It's no coincidence that the genre kind of just fell 0:22:45.869 --> 0:22:48.410 off from there. So let's hear what Walt has to say. 0:22:49.440 --> 0:22:53.860 When you look at romantic comedies, they are uniquely star-driven. 0:22:54.080 --> 0:22:56.419 The people who are on the poster who look like 0:22:56.460 --> 0:22:58.780 they're about to kiss or are interested in kissing are 0:22:58.820 --> 0:23:00.260 the entire reason that people. 0:23:00.100 --> 0:23:00.660 Will see the movie. 0:23:01.080 --> 0:23:03.600 And the engine that makes movie stars has been not 0:23:03.700 --> 0:23:06.370 working for the past two decades. We are not good 0:23:06.410 --> 0:23:10.070 at finding a young person cultivating their talent, cultivating their 0:23:10.130 --> 0:23:13.550 personality in the press and their brand, and making them 0:23:13.609 --> 0:23:17.149 into a big opening movie star. There's a lot of 0:23:17.210 --> 0:23:20.070 reasons for that. Some of that is the disintegration of 0:23:20.109 --> 0:23:24.859 the traditional channels of entertainment publicity. People are picking up 0:23:25.320 --> 0:23:27.280 magazines at grocery stores less often. 0:23:27.300 --> 0:23:29.300 They're finding things more often online. 0:23:29.760 --> 0:23:33.800 Pop Crave is driving more interest in individual celebrities as 0:23:33.840 --> 0:23:36.780 an Instagram and Twitter account than Us Weekly. And as 0:23:36.820 --> 0:23:41.919 a result, the strategic elements who work behind stars to 0:23:41.960 --> 0:23:44.160 kind of push them out there and get their credibility 0:23:44.180 --> 0:23:47.200 and get them fans, just has not been able to 0:23:47.240 --> 0:23:50.120 adapt as quickly, straightforwardly. And as a result, if you 0:23:50.180 --> 0:23:53.020 look at who movie stars are right now, they're a 0:23:53.040 --> 0:23:54.800 little bit few and far between. There's a lot of, like, 0:23:54.880 --> 0:23:58.590 who in them, right? You know, people want to go 0:23:58.609 --> 0:24:01.650 to see Moonstruck. You know, it's fun, like, oh, yes, 0:24:01.750 --> 0:24:03.910 watch these interesting Italian people date in New York City. 0:24:04.109 --> 0:24:06.030 But no, you want to watch Nicolas Cage and Cher. Like, 0:24:06.050 --> 0:24:09.330 that's a cool coupling, right? And we haven't really seen that. 0:24:09.869 --> 0:24:11.910 Some of that is like the stars that are not 0:24:11.970 --> 0:24:14.810 famous enough are making rom-coms. Like you kind of saw 0:24:14.850 --> 0:24:17.469 that with the One Night Only stuff, right? But then 0:24:17.530 --> 0:24:19.989 also like the stars who are famous enough to make 0:24:20.050 --> 0:24:22.650 rom-coms are not interested in it, right? On paper, like 0:24:22.760 --> 0:24:24.940 the drama, which came out earlier this year starring Robert 0:24:24.960 --> 0:24:28.899 Pattinson and Zendaya, is like a perfect chalk it up 0:24:28.960 --> 0:24:31.340 as a rom-com. Two of the most famous young actors 0:24:31.380 --> 0:24:34.720 of their generation. They're both attractive, they're interesting, people like 0:24:34.760 --> 0:24:37.340 watching them, they see them in everything. And, you know, 0:24:37.380 --> 0:24:40.490 that wasn't a rom-com, though. They, as actors, are more 0:24:40.530 --> 0:24:42.790 interested in making a dramatic film or, you know, an 0:24:43.050 --> 0:24:45.210 artistic film for an auteur that they enjoy working with. 0:24:45.650 --> 0:24:48.229 And as a result, like, either the people who are 0:24:48.290 --> 0:24:51.080 famous enough aren't interested in making these movies and the 0:24:51.100 --> 0:24:53.080 people who want to make these movies just aren't famous 0:24:53.100 --> 0:24:55.000 enough to sell them. And so that's an element of it. 0:24:55.020 --> 0:24:57.820 The other thing too is that directors who can get 0:24:57.859 --> 0:25:01.630 a movie made on name alone are not interested in rom-coms. 0:25:02.050 --> 0:25:02.470 Spielberg. 0:25:03.010 --> 0:25:05.669 Nolan, these men are not making romantic comedies. You know, 0:25:06.020 --> 0:25:09.379 Gary Marshall is not making movies anymore. And as a result, 0:25:09.400 --> 0:25:12.240 we're not getting rom-coms from Gary Marshall anymore. But ultimately, 0:25:12.260 --> 0:25:15.140 at the end of the day, you're not seeing somebody 0:25:15.160 --> 0:25:17.060 who's like, oh, I just want to make this kind 0:25:17.100 --> 0:25:19.100 of movie. I believe that audiences want it. And I'm 0:25:19.160 --> 0:25:20.920 able to kind of put the burger on the plate 0:25:21.220 --> 0:25:22.940 and sell it to them. We just don't see that anymore. 0:25:23.570 --> 0:25:24.290 So this seems. 0:25:24.130 --> 0:25:27.330 Related to the first point in that like the middle 0:25:27.790 --> 0:25:31.090 budget movie isn't being made anymore because there isn't a 0:25:31.150 --> 0:25:36.040 financial incentive And downstream from that is that actors don't 0:25:36.080 --> 0:25:37.880 want to be in those movies anymore because there isn't 0:25:37.900 --> 0:25:42.800 the financial incentive. But it was interesting he mentioned the drama. 0:25:42.940 --> 0:25:44.659 I haven't seen it. I know you guys saw it 0:25:44.700 --> 0:25:45.980 and liked it. Have you seen it, Emmanuel? 0:25:46.080 --> 0:25:47.080 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:25:47.119 --> 0:25:51.639 Where does that exist in the rom-com spectrum? He's basically 0:25:51.680 --> 0:25:53.719 saying this should have been a rom-com. 0:25:53.740 --> 0:25:57.260 Yeah, I mean, it is. It actually is. Again, it's 0:25:57.280 --> 0:26:00.359 a marketing thing, I think. Obviously, people talk about the 0:26:00.380 --> 0:26:03.850 kind of twist of it. But it is. It is 0:26:03.890 --> 0:26:04.150 a rom-com. 0:26:04.170 --> 0:26:04.750 So this is kind of a. 0:26:04.730 --> 0:26:09.710 Beat for beat, like, oh, this is clearly, I mean, broadly. 0:26:09.790 --> 0:26:13.070 I think it's like, there are so many romantic comedy 0:26:13.109 --> 0:26:15.690 tropes that don't appear necessarily in that movie. 0:26:15.750 --> 0:26:18.850 Like, there's not a will they won't name. Okay, they're 0:26:18.869 --> 0:26:20.550 already together. They're already together. 0:26:22.050 --> 0:26:24.429 And it is similar to what he mentioned. Like, it is, 0:26:24.630 --> 0:26:26.689 in a way, a concept movie, which is just like, 0:26:26.710 --> 0:26:28.490 you know, and the way it was marketed was like, 0:26:29.080 --> 0:26:30.859 how well do you really know your partner? 0:26:30.880 --> 0:26:31.080 Yeah. 0:26:31.730 --> 0:26:35.430 I feel like, yes, as actors, I found that movie 0:26:35.990 --> 0:26:38.970 super interesting and super funny, even if not all of 0:26:39.060 --> 0:26:43.800 it totally worked at times. But I do think that, right, 0:26:43.840 --> 0:26:50.369 the thing he's saying about Robert Pattinson and Zendaya's natural 0:26:50.530 --> 0:26:53.879 instincts as actors is... they do lean into the more 0:26:53.940 --> 0:26:58.380 sort of meatier, more complex parts of those roles. 0:26:58.440 --> 0:26:59.880 Even if they don't work exactly. 0:27:00.200 --> 0:27:01.580 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:27:01.820 --> 0:27:06.220 And I think in that way, it didn't necessarily feel 0:27:06.380 --> 0:27:10.090 like a rom-com. But no, that is the sort of 0:27:10.150 --> 0:27:13.189 movie at its size, right? That you would be like, oh, 0:27:13.290 --> 0:27:15.630 this is occupying that space. 0:27:16.330 --> 0:27:18.130 If they cut a trailer for that differently and put 0:27:18.150 --> 0:27:21.440 different music behind it, we would see it as a rom-com. 0:27:22.330 --> 0:27:25.130 And it's built for laughs in that same way you were. 0:27:25.070 --> 0:27:25.610 Talking about earlier? 0:27:25.630 --> 0:27:27.010 Yeah, there is. It's built for laughs. 0:27:27.030 --> 0:27:30.450 And it's like, it is, it's very sweet, really. Like, 0:27:30.960 --> 0:27:34.540 surprisingly so. It's also built to shock. Yeah. 0:27:34.680 --> 0:27:37.440 It's like, the whole thing is sort of like, You're 0:27:37.480 --> 0:27:40.160 laughing in Shock Laugh, but then there is just like 0:27:40.280 --> 0:27:43.520 actual funny, like there's physical comedy at. 0:27:43.480 --> 0:27:45.640 Moments as well in a way that works. 0:27:45.780 --> 0:27:48.510 I feel like now a lot of the rom-coms, you know, 0:27:48.590 --> 0:27:50.750 I think part of the sensibility of the drama is 0:27:50.850 --> 0:27:54.690 it's not an American director, right? So you're getting a 0:27:54.750 --> 0:27:59.260 slightly not American comedy. Yeah. It's a little bit darker 0:27:59.420 --> 0:28:02.100 than usual. And I think that plays to like these 0:28:02.260 --> 0:28:04.180 actors don't want to do this. You know, he's saying 0:28:04.200 --> 0:28:06.290 like the softball straight down the middle thing. They want 0:28:06.310 --> 0:28:10.230 to do something that's slightly different, slightly off. And, you know, 0:28:10.330 --> 0:28:12.650 I think the drama does a version of that. And, 0:28:13.050 --> 0:28:14.909 you know, we get things like Triangle of Sadness. And 0:28:14.930 --> 0:28:18.570 there's these others sort of like, okay, there's like comedy here. 0:28:19.140 --> 0:28:23.270 There's some romance, but it's not the predictable thing that 0:28:23.290 --> 0:28:25.510 an American audience would expect. 0:28:25.570 --> 0:28:28.230 Yeah, it's like the next step or evolution of it. 0:28:28.230 --> 0:28:28.830 Yes, exactly. 0:28:28.850 --> 0:28:29.470 You know, it makes sense. 0:28:29.490 --> 0:28:31.409 It's like meta to some degree. 0:28:31.590 --> 0:28:34.210 It's a more cynical version in a way. And honestly, 0:28:35.040 --> 0:28:36.340 I don't know that I have a problem with that. 0:28:36.400 --> 0:28:36.920 No, yeah. 0:28:36.940 --> 0:28:40.400 Like, I do feel like whatever romantic comedies would look 0:28:40.460 --> 0:28:43.040 like now for us should look different. 0:28:43.060 --> 0:28:43.920 They kind of have to be. 0:28:43.960 --> 0:28:44.300 Yeah. 0:28:44.520 --> 0:28:47.140 Like, the movies we kind of hold up... I do 0:28:47.160 --> 0:28:49.980 think it's important to recognize that, like, those movies were 0:28:50.080 --> 0:28:54.510 really just kind of, like, about people who were straight, white, 0:28:54.650 --> 0:28:55.510 and thin. 0:28:55.710 --> 0:28:57.770 And, like, they weren't, it's not that they. 0:28:57.710 --> 0:29:00.970 Weren't interested in anybody else, but that was what those 0:29:01.010 --> 0:29:03.660 movies were about. And I think, for me, one of 0:29:03.670 --> 0:29:07.290 the tragedies, I think, of, like, I think Hollywood's lack 0:29:07.310 --> 0:29:10.410 of investment in movies like this is that you don't 0:29:10.490 --> 0:29:13.650 get to see the sort of more complex stuff that 0:29:13.950 --> 0:29:16.200 we probably would have gotten by now if it was 0:29:16.220 --> 0:29:17.300 sustained investment. 0:29:17.660 --> 0:29:18.020 Yeah. 0:29:18.340 --> 0:29:20.500 And it sounds like the drama proved that you can 0:29:21.860 --> 0:29:24.980 tackle more complex, more nuanced issues and still be fun 0:29:25.040 --> 0:29:28.000 and be a good popcorn flick. You're not taking a 0:29:28.060 --> 0:29:32.440 risk on entertainment by injecting some interesting storylines. But it's 0:29:32.460 --> 0:29:34.940 funny you should mention that because the last question I 0:29:34.980 --> 0:29:38.450 had for Walt was, what's the future of the rom-com 0:29:38.970 --> 0:29:39.470 look like? 0:29:39.490 --> 0:29:39.790 Exactly. 0:29:40.450 --> 0:29:43.380 It? Do we even want to save it? And so 0:29:43.410 --> 0:29:44.120 here's what he had to say. 0:29:47.200 --> 0:29:49.880 The thing that I find really interesting about the extinction 0:29:49.900 --> 0:29:52.140 of the rom-com is that it reminds me to an 0:29:52.180 --> 0:29:55.650 extent of the extinction of the dinosaurs. The dinosaurs did 0:29:55.710 --> 0:29:58.950 not go extinct. That is an incorrect sentence. The non-avian 0:29:58.990 --> 0:30:02.730 dinosaurs went extinct. Something still exists from the dinosaurs, right? 0:30:02.750 --> 0:30:05.230 We call them birds. We don't consider them dinosaurs because 0:30:05.290 --> 0:30:07.320 they play a very different role in our lives than 0:30:07.360 --> 0:30:11.560 a velociraptor would. But ultimately, things survive extinction events and 0:30:11.580 --> 0:30:14.540 become potentially different things. And I think that if you 0:30:14.620 --> 0:30:18.860 want to see something that is currently filling the rom-com-shaped 0:30:19.020 --> 0:30:21.850 hole in the American heart, You have to look at 0:30:21.890 --> 0:30:25.490 something that isn't called rom-com, but nevertheless has the identical 0:30:25.910 --> 0:30:29.140 structure to a rom-com. And I am specifically talking about 0:30:29.300 --> 0:30:32.780 reality television shows. If you look at The Bachelorette, if 0:30:32.800 --> 0:30:35.140 you look at Love Island, what is the plot of 0:30:35.180 --> 0:30:37.980 these shows? Ultimately, a couple will come together over the 0:30:38.020 --> 0:30:40.580 course of that, that America gets their hearts behind. Bryce 0:30:40.620 --> 0:30:43.660 and Trinity... maybe on this most recent season of Lava Island. 0:30:44.060 --> 0:30:46.850 They're surrounded by interesting, funny people. They have interesting jokes that, 0:30:46.890 --> 0:30:50.390 you know, the sound design for The Bachelorette of like, 0:30:50.430 --> 0:30:53.130 you know, fun, quirky music during the fun, quirky segments 0:30:53.170 --> 0:30:55.510 and then big, dramatic music as they give their heartfelt, 0:30:55.850 --> 0:30:57.770 you know, testimonial of their love for each other. 0:30:57.790 --> 0:30:59.190 This stuff happens. 0:30:59.250 --> 0:31:01.430 It's just not happening in an hour and a half 0:31:01.950 --> 0:31:04.300 on a movie screen. It's happening week by week or 0:31:04.360 --> 0:31:07.080 night by night in a reality setting. And so what 0:31:07.100 --> 0:31:10.280 they've kind of done is they've made rom-coms almost the, like, 0:31:11.070 --> 0:31:15.520 very similar to how we've disintegrated a lot of storytelling 0:31:15.560 --> 0:31:19.040 and exposition and documentary into like YouTube formats where kind 0:31:19.080 --> 0:31:22.180 of best play wins creator economy style. Like we're going 0:31:22.200 --> 0:31:23.340 to throw a lot of stuff at the wall and 0:31:23.360 --> 0:31:25.240 see which couple America falls in love with. And then 0:31:25.460 --> 0:31:27.240 in retrospect, the show will be made about them. 0:31:27.460 --> 0:31:27.680 Right. 0:31:28.040 --> 0:31:31.700 And so I think that we still have the, the 0:31:31.780 --> 0:31:35.830 visual language and the cinematic language of rom-coms. We've just 0:31:36.210 --> 0:31:39.910 completely switched them into a slightly more consumable genre of 0:31:40.240 --> 0:31:42.790 that works better economically because you don't have to like 0:31:43.150 --> 0:31:45.810 if you're taking you know 12 people on spec and 0:31:45.850 --> 0:31:47.830 sending them to an island that you own it's astonishingly 0:31:47.850 --> 0:31:50.030 cheaper than hiring the talents of Tom Hanks for a 0:31:50.070 --> 0:31:53.450 week and so like ultimately they figured out a way 0:31:53.470 --> 0:31:55.350 to make this stuff go it's just not we don't 0:31:55.390 --> 0:31:58.480 call it rom-coms even though specifically the genre of these 0:31:58.540 --> 0:32:00.680 shows is categorically. 0:31:59.980 --> 0:32:03.000 Rom-com so I thought that was interesting and Devin I 0:32:03.040 --> 0:32:06.080 know you watch a lot of these I watch. 0:32:06.000 --> 0:32:07.920 Love Island oh okay I don't watch The Bachelor or 0:32:07.940 --> 0:32:09.500 The Bachelorette but But how. 0:32:09.420 --> 0:32:13.520 Much does Love Island fill that rom-com hole for you? 0:32:13.540 --> 0:32:18.280 It's definitely that, because it's kind of... You're watching people 0:32:18.510 --> 0:32:22.170 either fall or not fall in love. There's definitely comedy, 0:32:22.270 --> 0:32:25.610 not for reasons that they are often aware of. Usually 0:32:25.750 --> 0:32:27.910 just because the people on it are not too bright 0:32:27.990 --> 0:32:30.010 or they show memes where they're sort of like, oh 0:32:30.030 --> 0:32:31.750 my God, I can't believe there are people who don't 0:32:31.790 --> 0:32:37.000 know these things. And it sort of builds the sort 0:32:37.040 --> 0:32:40.490 of everyone... you know, sort of backs a certain person 0:32:40.550 --> 0:32:42.170 or couple. So it's the same sort of thing. It's 0:32:42.190 --> 0:32:44.969 like when you're rooting for a couple on a rom-com. 0:32:45.730 --> 0:32:49.020 I just think TV shows in general have taken that position. 0:32:49.800 --> 0:32:52.400 Reality TV, but also just regular TV. You know, like 0:32:52.440 --> 0:32:55.920 there's a lot of these like teen drama, you know, 0:32:56.060 --> 0:33:00.300 romance sort of things, you know, like there's Heartstopper on Netflix, 0:33:00.340 --> 0:33:02.260 which is big with like a lot of Gen Z people. 0:33:02.810 --> 0:33:06.390 There's the other one about like all the pretty girls 0:33:06.470 --> 0:33:07.810 I've loved or I don't even know. 0:33:07.910 --> 0:33:10.910 All those boys I've loved before, I think. All the boys. 0:33:10.830 --> 0:33:11.470 I've loved before? No, no. 0:33:11.470 --> 0:33:11.990 There's another one. 0:33:12.170 --> 0:33:13.350 It's like not the summer I turned pretty. 0:33:13.390 --> 0:33:14.130 Yes, yes. 0:33:14.150 --> 0:33:14.710 The summer I turned pretty. 0:33:14.730 --> 0:33:17.210 The summer I turned pretty. So I feel like there's 0:33:17.290 --> 0:33:20.580 these like, you know, there's these now it's TV is 0:33:21.020 --> 0:33:24.280 now the rom-com. Whether it's reality, whether it's these like 0:33:24.400 --> 0:33:28.720 streaming series that are TV shows. I feel like that's where. 0:33:29.330 --> 0:33:32.610 you know, the traditional rom-com audience has gone now. 0:33:33.550 --> 0:33:36.729 Yeah, Walt's point there made me think about Insecure from 0:33:37.290 --> 0:33:39.450 Issa Rae and how, I mean, that's like what was 0:33:39.490 --> 0:33:43.260 six seasons or something, but very much the beats of 0:33:43.320 --> 0:33:46.080 a rom-com, even though I never considered it a rom-com 0:33:46.120 --> 0:33:48.240 until just now. I just thought it was a comedy 0:33:48.940 --> 0:33:52.520 that had romantic elements, but I think that's probably what 0:33:52.560 --> 0:33:54.200 she's trying to serve to. 0:33:54.420 --> 0:33:56.420 It's interesting you bring up Insecure because I feel like 0:33:57.270 --> 0:33:59.730 That is one of the last few sort of like 0:33:59.930 --> 0:34:03.860 appointment like television shows where it's just like, oh, everybody 0:34:03.920 --> 0:34:06.000 I know is sitting down to watch this thing at 0:34:06.020 --> 0:34:06.740 this particular time. 0:34:06.760 --> 0:34:08.120 At nine o'clock on a Sunday night. 0:34:08.239 --> 0:34:08.680 Yeah. 0:34:08.860 --> 0:34:11.910 And I do think like, yeah, it's telling that, right, 0:34:12.050 --> 0:34:14.850 it was popular and it also scratched a particular itch 0:34:15.530 --> 0:34:17.049 like for that kind of like. 0:34:17.410 --> 0:34:18.790 Those rom-com beats. 0:34:19.070 --> 0:34:21.670 All the classic arguments of this person should be or 0:34:21.690 --> 0:34:24.850 shouldn't be with this person they should be doing this 0:34:24.870 --> 0:34:27.230 i feel like in rom-coms they always have the character 0:34:27.250 --> 0:34:29.730 that's like the alternate option if you don't go with 0:34:29.750 --> 0:34:32.779 the main person right right so yeah i thought it 0:34:32.820 --> 0:34:37.380 was like also kind of sweet this idea that the 0:34:37.420 --> 0:34:41.120 rom-com is effect is like essentially dead or dying but 0:34:41.160 --> 0:34:44.589 that it's Some of his DNA has been disintegrated into 0:34:44.650 --> 0:34:48.009 different kinds of formats like the reality TV show. And 0:34:48.030 --> 0:34:52.010 then just more straightforwardly in TV, there are just straight-up 0:34:52.070 --> 0:34:54.830 rom-coms just in TV formats now. 0:34:54.989 --> 0:34:57.210 And I guess you've got to also account for Hallmark 0:34:57.250 --> 0:34:57.810 movies too. 0:34:58.140 --> 0:34:58.890 Yeah. 0:34:58.910 --> 0:34:59.380 Those exist. 0:34:59.550 --> 0:35:03.260 And knock-off Hallmark movies that have been on streaming services. 0:35:03.280 --> 0:35:07.500 Those really purposefully bad Netflix rom-coms that come out every Christmas, 0:35:07.560 --> 0:35:08.000 I think. Mm-hmm. 0:35:08.600 --> 0:35:08.839 Yeah. 0:35:09.120 --> 0:35:13.270 Okay, one of the reasons Walt said the rom-com has 0:35:13.290 --> 0:35:15.710 fallen off is that there's not enough star power, there's 0:35:15.730 --> 0:35:19.650 not enough interesting people interested in making those films. So 0:35:19.830 --> 0:35:24.239 after the break, we're going to cast our own rom-com 0:35:24.580 --> 0:35:28.620 and see if we can get the perfect combination that 0:35:28.660 --> 0:35:41.120 might get people to go to theaters. All right, we 0:35:41.180 --> 0:35:44.810 are back. And you just heard from Walt Hickey. He 0:35:44.850 --> 0:35:47.890 gave us three really solid reasons why the rom-com has 0:35:47.930 --> 0:35:50.469 fallen off. But I thought it'd be fun to try 0:35:50.489 --> 0:35:53.670 and make our own rom-com, like a spec, a premise 0:35:53.730 --> 0:35:56.560 of a rom-com to see if... And then we'll ask 0:35:56.600 --> 0:35:58.839 our listeners to see if it's interesting enough for them 0:35:58.900 --> 0:36:01.259 to get off of their asses and go see it 0:36:01.420 --> 0:36:01.940 in theaters. 0:36:02.020 --> 0:36:02.500 In theaters. 0:36:02.560 --> 0:36:04.660 Because it seems like one of the problems is that 0:36:04.680 --> 0:36:07.420 we're pairing up these actors who are either not that 0:36:07.480 --> 0:36:10.200 famous or just not great chemistry with each other. 0:36:10.219 --> 0:36:10.759 Yeah. 0:36:10.820 --> 0:36:13.740 And so it'd be fun to come up with two leads, 0:36:14.280 --> 0:36:17.890 a premise, and then a twist. Okay. Now, Noah, I'd 0:36:17.910 --> 0:36:20.970 like to start with you just because like we've mentioned earlier, 0:36:21.010 --> 0:36:22.890 you're watching the most films out of all of us. 0:36:24.650 --> 0:36:25.170 Any ideas? 0:36:25.250 --> 0:36:27.549 So not on casting yet, but here's my pitch for 0:36:27.590 --> 0:36:28.259 the premise. 0:36:28.340 --> 0:36:28.660 Okay. 0:36:29.180 --> 0:36:31.779 This is inspired hearing about Pop Crave taking the place 0:36:31.800 --> 0:36:36.120 of us weekly. So our main protagonist woman, young woman, 0:36:36.180 --> 0:36:38.760 she's in like publicity. So she works for, she's working 0:36:38.880 --> 0:36:41.530 for like some hunk movie star. 0:36:41.670 --> 0:36:41.930 Okay. 0:36:42.030 --> 0:36:42.190 Right. 0:36:42.230 --> 0:36:43.810 And it's her job to get coverage. 0:36:43.489 --> 0:36:43.760 For this guy. 0:36:43.770 --> 0:36:44.790 I think I know where this is going and I 0:36:44.790 --> 0:36:45.350 like it. 0:36:45.370 --> 0:36:50.290 She's begging Pop Crave, the guy, a man who runs 0:36:50.330 --> 0:36:59.090 the Pop Crave account to- you know, promote her client's movie. Somehow, 0:36:59.250 --> 0:37:01.770 you know, she's taking him out to dinner, coffees, whatever, 0:37:01.870 --> 0:37:04.549 trying to ply him. Like, please listen to me. He 0:37:04.590 --> 0:37:06.870 doesn't like this guy for whatever reason. Maybe they went 0:37:06.910 --> 0:37:09.210 to college together and he stole his girlfriend. I don't know. 0:37:09.230 --> 0:37:12.030 There's some backstory we need to pencil in. Of course, 0:37:12.750 --> 0:37:15.130 they end up falling in love. And the movie's a 0:37:15.190 --> 0:37:16.890 huge success and it brings back the rom-com. 0:37:17.090 --> 0:37:17.830 That's beautiful. 0:37:18.160 --> 0:37:19.549 With Pop Crave at the center of it. 0:37:19.920 --> 0:37:22.000 Yeah, the movie is called Pop Crave. 0:37:22.760 --> 0:37:22.990 Oh. 0:37:23.110 --> 0:37:26.169 Do you need to make a parody of the Pop 0:37:26.190 --> 0:37:27.390 Crave account or are you just going to call. 0:37:27.250 --> 0:37:29.890 It Pop Crave? Well, either they listen to this and 0:37:29.930 --> 0:37:32.819 like what I'm doing and come in and check or 0:37:32.840 --> 0:37:33.680 we have to do something else. 0:37:35.000 --> 0:37:36.680 I really like that idea. I thought you were going 0:37:36.700 --> 0:37:41.780 to say that a publicist is trying to manufacturer relationship 0:37:41.840 --> 0:37:44.960 between her client and like, I'm thinking of the Taylor Swift, 0:37:45.060 --> 0:37:48.040 Travis Kelsey thing. And then they, they do end up 0:37:48.080 --> 0:37:48.660 falling in love. 0:37:48.719 --> 0:37:48.879 Yeah. 0:37:48.900 --> 0:37:52.040 That's a good one too. All right. 0:37:52.080 --> 0:37:53.580 We've come up with a premise here. We're going to 0:37:53.600 --> 0:37:55.530 flip over to the other couch. We need you guys 0:37:55.570 --> 0:37:56.490 to cast. 0:37:57.150 --> 0:37:57.850 Yeah. 0:37:58.950 --> 0:38:01.569 Okay. And I'll give, well, the guy is so important here. 0:38:01.890 --> 0:38:02.469 Yeah. 0:38:02.510 --> 0:38:05.850 The pop crave runner. No, the hunk. 0:38:06.170 --> 0:38:08.169 I feel like he's less, he has to be not 0:38:08.250 --> 0:38:11.969 likable to, I feel like he's less important. 0:38:11.989 --> 0:38:14.700 But also believable why she would be interested in him. 0:38:14.710 --> 0:38:16.819 You need the guy who runs the Twitter account about 0:38:16.840 --> 0:38:19.739 celebrities to be likable somehow. I think that's going to 0:38:19.780 --> 0:38:19.960 be harder. 0:38:20.020 --> 0:38:21.840 But not as hot as the celebrity. 0:38:21.860 --> 0:38:23.560 Well, he's hot in an alternative way. 0:38:23.680 --> 0:38:24.299 Exactly. 0:38:24.610 --> 0:38:29.180 And to Noah's point, I think the actual client celebrity 0:38:29.219 --> 0:38:32.900 in the film could either be playing themselves. Yeah, I 0:38:32.930 --> 0:38:35.350 would love that. It could be like Channing Tatum or 0:38:35.370 --> 0:38:36.609 something that's playing himself. 0:38:36.890 --> 0:38:37.469 He would love that. 0:38:37.730 --> 0:38:42.550 Or casting someone who's famously really cool and nice in 0:38:42.590 --> 0:38:45.739 real life, but you're casting them as an asshole celebrity. 0:38:45.820 --> 0:38:46.720 Reverse casting. 0:38:46.900 --> 0:38:48.760 I would make the hunk Paul Mescal. 0:38:50.300 --> 0:38:52.900 He seems very likeable or whatever but I feel like 0:38:52.920 --> 0:38:55.040 he would have fun if he gave you like a 0:38:55.060 --> 0:38:56.860 last minute heel turn that made you be like oh 0:38:56.880 --> 0:38:57.120 he's an. 0:38:57.100 --> 0:38:59.380 Asshole this could be good for him he needs. 0:38:58.960 --> 0:39:00.319 That he has a little bit of an edge to 0:39:00.340 --> 0:39:02.380 him but I feel like you don't see in his. 0:39:02.280 --> 0:39:04.180 Movies and I want we could use that. 0:39:04.230 --> 0:39:05.989 He needs this because I feel like he's a little 0:39:06.030 --> 0:39:07.350 bit on fraud watch for me. 0:39:07.550 --> 0:39:09.230 And you could do a little comedy would be nice 0:39:09.250 --> 0:39:09.649 from him. 0:39:09.670 --> 0:39:12.690 After After Sun I mean it's been clunkers really I 0:39:12.710 --> 0:39:16.290 mean Gladiator 2 I haven't seen Hamnet I haven't seen 0:39:16.310 --> 0:39:19.520 Hamnet you're right But Gladiator 2 was the worst film. 0:39:19.560 --> 0:39:21.460 You've got to make three good movies to come back 0:39:21.480 --> 0:39:21.890 from that. 0:39:22.090 --> 0:39:23.270 I know. 0:39:23.510 --> 0:39:26.110 And I'm a normal people head. And he's incredible. 0:39:26.130 --> 0:39:27.850 No, I like Paul, but yeah. 0:39:27.890 --> 0:39:31.000 He's still, yeah. I do like. because you would think 0:39:31.320 --> 0:39:33.380 you could possibly put him in the Pop Crave guy role. 0:39:33.400 --> 0:39:33.860 Yeah, exactly. 0:39:34.000 --> 0:39:37.200 Because he's like a nice, oh, you know, he seems 0:39:37.219 --> 0:39:39.500 like a normal dude, but I like him as the celeb. 0:39:39.600 --> 0:39:40.690 All right, let's lock him in. 0:39:40.719 --> 0:39:45.260 We're locking in Paul Mescal as the client, the hunk client, 0:39:45.280 --> 0:39:45.989 celebrity client. 0:39:46.090 --> 0:39:46.640 Okay. 0:39:46.660 --> 0:39:49.370 So now we need to cast his PR person. 0:39:49.800 --> 0:39:50.950 That's a hard one. 0:39:51.239 --> 0:39:51.780 That is tricky. 0:39:51.800 --> 0:39:54.350 I'm going to float this one out there because, you know, 0:39:54.550 --> 0:39:58.549 whenever I think of rom-com, recent rom-coms, Sydney Sweeney keeps 0:39:58.570 --> 0:40:01.090 popping up, but I don't think she's that great. I 0:40:01.150 --> 0:40:02.570 think we should go a different route. 0:40:02.610 --> 0:40:04.350 You can't. Sydney Sweeney cannot play anyone. 0:40:04.370 --> 0:40:06.569 She would not be doing this. 0:40:06.989 --> 0:40:08.489 And I don't know if she's ever played anything like this, 0:40:08.510 --> 0:40:10.550 but what about a Margaret Qualley? Has she been in 0:40:10.630 --> 0:40:13.390 any rom-coms? She seems like she might be able to 0:40:13.910 --> 0:40:15.629 be a PR person for this role, maybe. 0:40:15.650 --> 0:40:15.950 She could. 0:40:16.130 --> 0:40:16.630 My problem. 0:40:17.330 --> 0:40:19.160 I want to preface this by saying that the way 0:40:19.180 --> 0:40:21.420 in which we are even informed to think about casting 0:40:21.440 --> 0:40:23.500 for these movies, like influenced by the movies. 0:40:23.280 --> 0:40:24.060 That are really good. 0:40:24.100 --> 0:40:24.500 Yeah. 0:40:24.520 --> 0:40:24.780 Right. 0:40:25.340 --> 0:40:27.440 In my brain, I feel like I've been conditioned to 0:40:27.480 --> 0:40:30.640 feel like, Oh, what I need from a compelling female 0:40:30.680 --> 0:40:33.350 lead in a movie like this is someone who is 0:40:33.430 --> 0:40:39.759 like really charismatic. Um, And Margaret Qualley seems like a 0:40:39.820 --> 0:40:40.790 really good actress. 0:40:40.890 --> 0:40:41.109 Yeah. 0:40:41.290 --> 0:40:45.150 But I don't know that her face is that interesting 0:40:45.390 --> 0:40:47.790 in terms of just like comedy and that sort of 0:40:47.850 --> 0:40:50.830 things to make it. It's almost like she's like, yeah, 0:40:51.030 --> 0:40:53.989 I don't quite see her. And I don't, she's not 0:40:54.050 --> 0:40:57.260 quite believable for me as someone who like, the poor 0:40:57.300 --> 0:41:00.060 mezcal of this world would totally pass over immediately. 0:41:01.120 --> 0:41:01.580 That's a good point. 0:41:01.640 --> 0:41:03.220 Fair enough, fair enough. 0:41:03.280 --> 0:41:03.860 Respectfully. 0:41:04.120 --> 0:41:11.120 Yeah. So I'm trying to think about who would you 0:41:11.160 --> 0:41:11.819 have do it? 0:41:13.480 --> 0:41:15.200 This is not going to solve our problem, but it 0:41:15.219 --> 0:41:19.049 would be a fun movie to watch. I think Meg 0:41:19.070 --> 0:41:20.270 Stalter would be. 0:41:20.090 --> 0:41:24.029 An hilarious assistant. 0:41:24.270 --> 0:41:26.940 And Give her something that's a little bit more serious. 0:41:27.340 --> 0:41:27.660 Yeah. 0:41:27.900 --> 0:41:34.140 She's quirky and funny, but turn it down 70%. Yeah. 0:41:35.350 --> 0:41:37.750 Maybe something there. You know, she kind of already plays. 0:41:37.770 --> 0:41:40.570 It worked in that new Lena Dunham show. 0:41:40.710 --> 0:41:41.150 Oh, yeah. 0:41:41.210 --> 0:41:42.230 Wasn't that Meg Salter? 0:41:42.270 --> 0:41:42.850 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:41:43.570 --> 0:41:45.259 And I wasn't, yeah, that makes sense. 0:41:45.280 --> 0:41:45.940 I can see that. 0:41:45.980 --> 0:41:46.540 I can see that. 0:41:46.790 --> 0:41:49.450 All right, let's keep her on the short list. She's 0:41:49.489 --> 0:41:51.930 the next call when we get rejected by John Lawrence. 0:41:52.630 --> 0:41:54.670 I hate to sound like a Hollywood exec of the 0:41:54.710 --> 0:41:57.390 past 100 years, but Meg Stalter might be the publicist's 0:41:57.530 --> 0:42:00.250 friend in this film that. 0:42:00.050 --> 0:42:01.790 We're casting here. Wow. 0:42:01.810 --> 0:42:03.730 Because she's so funny. She's great comic relief. 0:42:03.790 --> 0:42:04.490 Yeah, that's true. 0:42:04.610 --> 0:42:06.650 That's true. That's true. Yeah. 0:42:06.969 --> 0:42:11.739 I'm thinking about, okay, actresses that have comedic timing and 0:42:11.800 --> 0:42:12.500 are interesting. 0:42:13.110 --> 0:42:13.270 As. 0:42:13.250 --> 0:42:16.390 Much as I love Zendaya, I don't think she would 0:42:16.410 --> 0:42:19.130 work in this film that Noah's talking about. 0:42:19.850 --> 0:42:20.360 No. 0:42:21.620 --> 0:42:24.320 This is a tough one that will be edited down 0:42:24.360 --> 0:42:25.000 to three minutes. 0:42:25.980 --> 0:42:26.420 Yeah. 0:42:26.820 --> 0:42:32.300 Oh, Homegirl from Dune and the really sad Andrew Garfield movie. 0:42:32.840 --> 0:42:33.439 Florence Pugh? 0:42:33.880 --> 0:42:36.219 Yeah. I could see her doing it. 0:42:36.280 --> 0:42:37.669 She could be a publicist for sure. 0:42:37.690 --> 0:42:38.330 Yeah. 0:42:40.080 --> 0:42:43.840 She's giving publicists. She's giving passed over publicists. 0:42:43.920 --> 0:42:45.920 I see her excelling in a role as a publicist. 0:42:45.940 --> 0:42:47.950 Well, it's funny because in Dune, she is kind of 0:42:47.969 --> 0:42:50.070 like the, she's playing a bit of that role. 0:42:50.170 --> 0:42:50.650 Yeah. 0:42:50.830 --> 0:42:53.050 I'm not really interested in you. Yeah? 0:42:53.350 --> 0:42:53.750 Mm-hmm. 0:42:55.450 --> 0:42:59.810 Okay, well, we do need to eventually cast the male. 0:43:00.110 --> 0:43:00.550 Yeah. 0:43:00.610 --> 0:43:02.970 Let's hold on to Florence for now and let's move 0:43:03.020 --> 0:43:04.640 to the male. The Pop Crave runner. 0:43:04.660 --> 0:43:07.020 The Pop Crave guy. So he's not a celebrity himself. 0:43:07.180 --> 0:43:07.339 No. 0:43:07.600 --> 0:43:09.520 He's almost anonymous. 0:43:09.780 --> 0:43:09.980 Yes. 0:43:10.020 --> 0:43:10.320 Yeah. 0:43:10.880 --> 0:43:11.200 Right. 0:43:11.320 --> 0:43:13.239 He's the guy who runs the Pop Crave account. 0:43:13.260 --> 0:43:15.000 He needs to be someone who could walk around in 0:43:15.020 --> 0:43:17.029 those circles and no one would really notice. But he 0:43:17.070 --> 0:43:18.770 needs to be charming. But he needs to be charming. 0:43:18.790 --> 0:43:18.870 Yeah. 0:43:19.590 --> 0:43:22.489 And it has to be believable that you would be 0:43:22.610 --> 0:43:24.390 rooting for them to end up together. 0:43:24.550 --> 0:43:25.650 It's going to be tricky. 0:43:26.250 --> 0:43:26.930 What are male actors? 0:43:26.950 --> 0:43:27.310 Who are men? 0:43:27.710 --> 0:43:29.830 This is the problem. I'm starting to see the problem. 0:43:29.850 --> 0:43:30.650 There's not that many. 0:43:30.690 --> 0:43:33.210 I'm just going through like three famous. I'm like Robert Pattinson, 0:43:33.230 --> 0:43:34.050 Timothee Chalamet. 0:43:35.410 --> 0:43:35.609 No. 0:43:35.630 --> 0:43:36.029 That's all. 0:43:36.090 --> 0:43:37.840 They're almost too big. Like they wouldn't want to do 0:43:37.860 --> 0:43:38.089 this movie. 0:43:38.110 --> 0:43:39.319 Okay, I got somebody. Okay, who? 0:43:39.469 --> 0:43:39.880 Let's hear it. 0:43:39.890 --> 0:43:41.860 One of my underrated goats, Lucas Hedges. 0:43:42.960 --> 0:43:43.640 Oh, yeah. Okay. 0:43:44.239 --> 0:43:46.380 He can play a little understated guy. 0:43:46.400 --> 0:43:46.480 Yeah. 0:43:46.800 --> 0:43:49.590 Yeah. But he has charisma if you put him in 0:43:49.610 --> 0:43:50.130 the right role. 0:43:50.310 --> 0:43:50.570 Yeah. 0:43:51.010 --> 0:43:55.550 He does. I'd say William Jackson Harper, actually. 0:43:55.930 --> 0:43:58.300 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. This guy's great. 0:43:58.320 --> 0:43:58.700 I loved him. 0:43:58.760 --> 0:44:02.000 And again, I watched him in Love, season two of 0:44:02.040 --> 0:44:03.720 the HBO show Love Life. 0:44:03.739 --> 0:44:04.700 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:44:05.020 --> 0:44:08.890 Which was like a totally extended TV series version of 0:44:08.989 --> 0:44:11.090 so many romantic comedy tropes and ideas. 0:44:11.540 --> 0:44:13.120 But I loved him in that. 0:44:13.620 --> 0:44:16.920 And this is cool because there's a different version of 0:44:16.940 --> 0:44:20.300 this film where the publicist and the guy who's running 0:44:20.320 --> 0:44:25.190 the Popgrave account are actually not smoke show bombshell actors 0:44:25.210 --> 0:44:29.570 and actresses. They're more regular people. But there's smoke shows 0:44:29.650 --> 0:44:31.050 around them, if that makes sense. 0:44:31.570 --> 0:44:31.810 Yes. 0:44:32.310 --> 0:44:35.620 And so you're still getting people talking. in their seats, 0:44:36.060 --> 0:44:38.260 but it allows you to cast a William Jackson Harper 0:44:38.280 --> 0:44:41.100 who's attractive. I'm not saying he's not attractive, but he's 0:44:41.140 --> 0:44:44.940 not like, you know, on the sexiest man alive lists. 0:44:45.219 --> 0:44:47.120 He's somewhere you could have met. You could believe that 0:44:47.160 --> 0:44:50.500 he is, has a real job in real life. Um, 0:44:51.060 --> 0:44:52.600 so maybe, I don't know. Maybe we could go that 0:44:52.660 --> 0:44:54.520 route where it's like the two leads are actually just 0:44:54.560 --> 0:44:55.620 kind of regular. 0:44:55.640 --> 0:44:57.070 And we're relying on Paul to carry it. 0:44:57.180 --> 0:44:59.969 We're relying on Paul and Paul's friends in the film. 0:44:59.989 --> 0:45:01.750 It's going to be a bad bet. A bad lottery ticket. 0:45:02.110 --> 0:45:02.490 Yeah. 0:45:03.700 --> 0:45:06.399 So you guys are the execs and you're saying no. 0:45:06.420 --> 0:45:06.910 Probably not. 0:45:06.940 --> 0:45:09.020 Not for Paul to carry it as a side role. 0:45:10.900 --> 0:45:12.160 His name's not big enough for that. 0:45:13.590 --> 0:45:17.950 Well, what I think this exercise has demonstrated is exactly 0:45:18.010 --> 0:45:21.990 Walt's point about how hard it is to get together 0:45:22.450 --> 0:45:24.830 a cast for a rom-com these days. 0:45:25.469 --> 0:45:29.500 Saoirse Ronan. I'm thinking of the other little women. Like 0:45:29.520 --> 0:45:30.719 any of them could do it. 0:45:30.739 --> 0:45:31.860 Who are the other little ones? 0:45:31.950 --> 0:45:34.830 Emma, Hermione, Emma, which one? 0:45:35.090 --> 0:45:35.830 Emma Roberts. 0:45:35.910 --> 0:45:37.450 Oh, Emma Roberts, though. 0:45:37.469 --> 0:45:37.910 Emma Roberts. 0:45:37.950 --> 0:45:42.230 Emma Roberts, that's interesting. Let's get them all together. 0:45:42.370 --> 0:45:45.400 The publicist could be someone who's older and then the 0:45:45.420 --> 0:45:47.380 Pop Crave guy is naturally younger if we want to 0:45:47.420 --> 0:45:51.459 do like an age gap thing. Could be an interesting support. 0:45:51.480 --> 0:45:54.780 Richard Gere. Could be two women. 0:45:55.430 --> 0:45:55.910 Yeah. 0:45:55.950 --> 0:45:59.140 That's true. That's true. We're limiting ourselves. Why are we 0:45:59.180 --> 0:45:59.860 thinking about men? 0:45:59.920 --> 0:46:00.859 Premiering on movies. 0:46:00.940 --> 0:46:02.000 We're limiting ourselves. 0:46:02.180 --> 0:46:05.560 Which in that scenario, if it was two women, I 0:46:05.600 --> 0:46:09.460 would go Jessica Williams as the publicist. 0:46:09.520 --> 0:46:11.719 I was thinking of her as the publicist. Jessica Williams 0:46:11.739 --> 0:46:12.480 as the publicist. 0:46:12.540 --> 0:46:12.840 Yes. 0:46:13.040 --> 0:46:17.469 And then you could do Zendaya as the star. 0:46:17.489 --> 0:46:18.390 All right. 0:46:18.450 --> 0:46:20.910 Let's write this down. And that would allow Zendaya to 0:46:20.950 --> 0:46:21.810 do something different. 0:46:21.830 --> 0:46:22.310 Yeah. 0:46:22.330 --> 0:46:23.910 Which is just be a little bit unlikable. 0:46:23.950 --> 0:46:24.350 Yes. 0:46:25.310 --> 0:46:28.440 Okay, part two of this episode, we're coming back together 0:46:28.460 --> 0:46:30.739 with our laptops and we're writing this gameplay. 0:46:30.980 --> 0:46:36.860 Let's get the IMDb Pro fired up. Expeditiously. I think 0:46:37.100 --> 0:46:39.930 I've been paying for IMDb Pro for years. 0:46:40.320 --> 0:46:44.330 Zendaya at gmail.com. 0:46:44.430 --> 0:46:48.250 No such thing as a production of Kaleidoscope content. Executive 0:46:48.310 --> 0:46:52.690 produced by Mangesh Hatikadur. The show was created by Manny, Noah, 0:46:52.810 --> 0:46:56.330 and Devin, and the theme songs are created by me, Manny. 0:46:56.650 --> 0:47:00.489 Special thanks to our guests for this week, Emmanuel Jochi. 0:47:00.810 --> 0:47:03.790 Definitely go check out Big Lives. It's an incredible show. 0:47:03.810 --> 0:47:04.650 You're going to love it. 0:47:05.110 --> 0:47:08.410 And Walt Hickey, author of You Are What You Watch, 0:47:08.810 --> 0:47:12.589 How Movies and TV Affect Everything. As always, if you 0:47:12.630 --> 0:47:15.590 like what you're hearing, please leave us a five-star review. 0:47:15.700 --> 0:47:18.080 It helps us a bunch. And if you have a 0:47:18.140 --> 0:47:20.640 question you'd like for us to answer, reach out to 0:47:20.719 --> 0:47:24.450 us with the contact information in our show notes. See 0:47:24.469 --> 0:47:24.989 you next week. 0:47:25.350 --> 0:47:30.029 No, no, no, no, no such thing.