1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome 2 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 1: to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so 3 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 1: much for tuning in. This is part two of our 4 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:39,960 Speaker 1: story about the time so many people in New England, 5 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 1: for not invalid reasons, thought that their relatives were turning 6 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 1: into vampires and chasing down the living from beyond the grave. 7 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:53,519 Speaker 1: That's our guest super producer Little Brilliante returning. Wow, did 8 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 1: you just kiss like two fingers then put it up 9 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 1: in the sky? Okay? Nice? Then we also want to 10 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 1: shout out our super producer, Max Williams. It's on Adventures 11 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:06,319 Speaker 1: returning soon, as is my trusty co host Noel Brown. Wait, Ben, 12 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: you might be saying you're doing the show without a 13 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 1: co host, ha, No, actually, we were very fortunate to 14 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: be joined again with our returning special guests. The creator 15 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:22,400 Speaker 1: of Ephemeral you know him. You love them, longtime listeners, 16 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:26,679 Speaker 1: you've heard them on the show before. It is Alex Williams. Alex, 17 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 1: this is your fourth time on this show and I'm 18 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 1: broadcasting live from the bottom of my tomb. Yes, yeah, yeah, 19 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 1: which I gotta say. You sound great. It is really 20 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 1: nice and dead down here. It's got some good sound proofing. 21 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:43,480 Speaker 1: It's dead on a couple of levels. Right, So, Alex, 22 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 1: previously you and Lowell and I were talking about the 23 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 1: context that led to something called the New England Vampire panic. Folks, 24 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 1: if you haven't heard that phrase before, if you haven't 25 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: heard part one of the show, just go ahead pause this, 26 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 1: listen part one. We'll wait for you. Okay, how long 27 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: it was, say forty minutes yourself? Yeah, let's just okay. 28 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:23,799 Speaker 1: And we're bad. We're bad. That was a great episode. 29 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 1: Was that really? Uh? Stuff? And by which I mean 30 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:35,639 Speaker 1: the most horrible, depressing, depraved, tragic, exciting stuff. Right. That's 31 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:39,640 Speaker 1: part of why we decided to put this into two episodes, folks. 32 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: So for the for those of us in the crowd 33 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 1: who are maybe a little bit squeamish or yeah, maybe 34 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 1: maybe don't react super well to um somewhat explicit descriptions 35 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 1: of some disturbing things, this may not be the episode 36 00:02:57,040 --> 00:03:00,520 Speaker 1: for you. We just wanted to do a little disclaimer. Uh, Alex, 37 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 1: you have in particular dug into some dug into some 38 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 1: uh some visceral descriptions of what's happening. But folks, as 39 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:10,960 Speaker 1: you know, if you were listening to part one of 40 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 1: this podcast, people in New England, driven to desperate acts 41 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 1: due to the apparently inexplicable deaths of people in their communities, 42 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:28,920 Speaker 1: began attempting to well successfully exhooming and disenterring the corpses 43 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:34,520 Speaker 1: of their loved ones in an attempt to end their careers. 44 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 1: Has vampires. That's what they thought they were doing, right, Yeah, 45 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 1: so basically what we've lulls in the ground. You're in 46 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 1: my house then, but I'm ailing, and you're ailing. I've 47 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 1: tried everything else that you know, my village friends says, 48 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 1: you know, you should really dig up Law and see 49 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 1: what his body looks like, because there's a chance that 50 00:03:56,800 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 1: he is exercising some kind of will, maybe some spectral power, 51 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 1: and and and is the one causing Bend to still 52 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 1: be sick. And so maybe late one night we go 53 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: and dig up Loll and we see what kind of 54 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: state the body was in. That was what people would 55 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:17,360 Speaker 1: do first. Now, if it's the situation where you've been 56 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:20,200 Speaker 1: buried in the winter time, your body is not going 57 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 1: to composee decompose very quickly. New England winter is very harsh, 58 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:26,839 Speaker 1: very very cold a lot of times, and they couldn't 59 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:28,039 Speaker 1: even get the bodies in the ground. They were doing 60 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 1: these above ground tombs things. But apparently so if if 61 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:35,919 Speaker 1: the corps was exhumed and they weren't they were in 62 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 1: good shape, that was a bad sign. Yes, yeah, and 63 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 1: there would be descriptions or you know, if you if 64 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:45,160 Speaker 1: you haven't seen a decomposing body before, then it's very 65 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 1: understandable that's passed by one every day. That would work, right, Well, 66 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 1: we are in an interesting neighborhood and you have a 67 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 1: fascinating commute. You know, you can just take the belt line. 68 00:04:56,600 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: You don't have to go through that morgue. Okay, but yeah, 69 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:05,599 Speaker 1: the point stands, if you are unfamiliar with death and decomposition, 70 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 1: then you might look at someone who has been buried 71 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 1: in the winter, look at their corpse and think, uh, 72 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:16,040 Speaker 1: that guy doesn't look all the way dead. He just 73 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 1: winked at me. He just winked at me. Or it 74 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: seems like the you know, the common myth of the 75 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 1: fingernails and the hair quote unquote growing just because the 76 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:28,160 Speaker 1: skin is retracting. I literally learned that today. Yeah. I 77 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 1: was totally a person that thought that they kept growing forever. 78 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 1: And I I like that idea in a little piece 79 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 1: of me died with with the know that that's not true, 80 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 1: right right, that's but that it does very much if 81 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 1: you've ever seen it, it does look like people's fingernails 82 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 1: are still growing. And so you would think, my good friend, 83 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 1: my family member, Lowell has been clearly turned into a 84 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 1: vampire and is operating. Look at his fingernails. Look at 85 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 1: there there was the other other descriptions about this or 86 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:02,920 Speaker 1: similar situations point to things like ruddy cheeks, they looked, 87 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 1: they looked well fed, and things like that. So we 88 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 1: do we have a good example of a story like this. 89 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:13,840 Speaker 1: Let's maybe go to the Brown family. That's I mean, 90 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:17,719 Speaker 1: that's that's the best example there is Knowles, Knowles, honor. 91 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 1: Let's go to the Brown face. I imagine they're not related, 92 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 1: but let's go. First of all, there was Noel Brown, 93 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:25,919 Speaker 1: right famous famously Van Pirett. No, no, no, okay, So 94 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 1: we're talking like this story really begins in the eighteen eighties. 95 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 1: Father George Brown, mother Mary A Liza Brown, and then 96 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:41,280 Speaker 1: daughters Mary Olive Brown and Mercy Lena Brown. You got 97 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 1: all that, Ben, Yeah, they had a son to Edwin Brown. Edwin, Yes, 98 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 1: he probably had a clever middle name that just hasn't 99 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:51,720 Speaker 1: trickled down to us. It was probably spider Man. There 100 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:56,159 Speaker 1: is a very common name at this time. Okay. And 101 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 1: what they lived in Exeter, Rhode Island in the eighteen 102 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:03,359 Speaker 1: nine ease. Exeter was kind of a ghost town then. 103 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:08,159 Speaker 1: Um they called it deserted deserted Exeter. It was a grarian, 104 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 1: it was a border town. There was really not much 105 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 1: going on. The Civil War had sort of ravaged it. 106 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 1: Population was less than a thousand people. So people noticed 107 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 1: when others took sick. Yeah, because it is it is 108 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: one of those small communities where everybody does know everybody 109 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 1: for sure. It's not it's not easy to keep a 110 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 1: secret there. And in the historical record we know that 111 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 1: over time Mary Brown and Mary all of Brown, the 112 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 1: daughter and Mercy Lena Brown, were you would say, growing sickly. 113 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 1: They were taking ill, they were doing um worse. It 114 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 1: seemed every day whatever had a grasp of them, which 115 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 1: we now know is consumption. Wasn't the off and on 116 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 1: again type. It was active. At least it was the 117 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 1: active kind for the two marries, the mom and the daughter. 118 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 1: It wasn't until I believe ten years later that Mercy 119 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 1: passed away, and she did have the tuberculosis that went 120 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 1: dormant and then became active again. The doctors thought they 121 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 1: knew what had happened. The doctors thought they had a 122 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: rational explanation. But citizens, what few there were an exeter 123 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:35,080 Speaker 1: at the time, had their own theory. They had their 124 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 1: own belief. And I believe it's after Mercy, After Mercy dies, 125 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 1: then the husband, George Brown is still alive. Right, George 126 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:50,720 Speaker 1: Brown was really not susceptible to tuberculosis. He lived in 127 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaker 1: amazing but but it's a tragic life that he's lived. Yeah, 128 00:08:57,080 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 1: he definitely did that one where he watched everyone and 129 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 1: they left die yes around him, and he did everything 130 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:04,199 Speaker 1: he possibly could even think that he didn't believe in 131 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:07,320 Speaker 1: and felt completely uncomfortable with. He did everything in his 132 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:18,319 Speaker 1: power and it all failed. Yeah, because his after his 133 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:23,439 Speaker 1: daughters and his spouse DIY, his son Edwin spider Man 134 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 1: Brown also falls ill. And it's it's his last child 135 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 1: that he has. So you describe it perfectly, Alex. George 136 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 1: does something that in normal times he would never imagine 137 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:43,200 Speaker 1: himself doing. What is that? So it's George Brown lost 138 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 1: his wife ten years ago, his daughter Mary Olive Brown 139 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 1: nine years ago and now he's lost his daughter, Mercy 140 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 1: Lena Brown. Yeah, there are a lot of names, but 141 00:09:57,120 --> 00:09:59,320 Speaker 1: I'm doing my best to keep him straight. And there's 142 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:01,560 Speaker 1: you know those urgans. We use the same names over 143 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:04,319 Speaker 1: and over. Do you do the sandwich truss? It gets 144 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 1: very confusing. Um. Anyways, he's got three women in his 145 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 1: family in the grave, and his son Edwin is sick. 146 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:16,079 Speaker 1: They sent him out to Colorado Springs, which was a 147 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:20,679 Speaker 1: really popular place for um sanitarium. The dry air is 148 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 1: supposed to be good um for for your tuberculosis. I 149 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:27,559 Speaker 1: would love for someone to send me to Colorado Springs. 150 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 1: And so his son is. He doesn't want to lose 151 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 1: the last member of his family. Obviously, he doesn't know 152 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: what to do. He's in that situation that we described, 153 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:43,640 Speaker 1: and no one is sort of an official capacity, the doctors, 154 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 1: the town officials, the clergy. No one's really got an 155 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 1: answer for him. But there's sort of, you know, unofficial 156 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:57,560 Speaker 1: voices in the community that suggests that perhaps it is 157 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 1: you know, one of the dead family members spirit praying 158 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 1: on his living son. Right. Yeah, And people are people 159 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 1: have a horse in the race here and it's their 160 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 1: own survival because they're thinking, you know, if this is 161 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 1: some kind of supernatural situation, then what's going to happen 162 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 1: when they're done with the Brown family? This creature, this 163 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 1: entity is going to come for someone else. So and 164 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 1: this also comes from Michael Bell. So they say to 165 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 1: George Brown, they say, look, this is serious, and it's 166 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 1: not just your son on the line. It's not just 167 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 1: you on the line. It is everyone in Exeter on us, 168 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 1: all of us. Yeah, and you know, spread out different ways. 169 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:56,239 Speaker 1: But obviously travel isn't a problem for these vampires unless 170 00:11:56,280 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 1: there's running water and a couple of other superstitious cafaats. 171 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 1: But yeah, people are not joking, you know, it's not 172 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:09,319 Speaker 1: a prank. They are seriously considering this an existential threat. 173 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 1: So this is weird because from what I understand, Alex 174 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 1: George Brown himself didn't really buy the idea, did he. 175 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 1: Everything that I've read claims that he was. He didn't 176 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 1: want to be a part of it. Basically, this solution 177 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:29,320 Speaker 1: that people have been using back into the tenth centuries. 178 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:32,679 Speaker 1: So for when you've got a vampire exercising its will 179 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 1: from beyond the grave like this is you open up 180 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 1: the tomb, you dig up the cough and you crack 181 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:40,360 Speaker 1: that sucker ope, and you look at what's going on 182 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 1: in there. If there's anything fishy, he mutilate the corpse Eventualistically, Yeah, 183 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: there's a bunch of different ways. Um. They really seem 184 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:53,199 Speaker 1: to vary in the time and place that you're in, 185 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 1: and even just within New England in this period of 186 00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 1: a hundred or so years, it's sort of mattered where 187 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 1: you were, or like Rhode Island, where the Brown family 188 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 1: was was more spread out. Um Uh, it tended to 189 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 1: be more just kind of an individual family gathering to 190 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 1: open up the cough, open up the graves and mutilate 191 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:17,319 Speaker 1: the corpses. Places like Vermont, they tended to do it 192 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 1: as a public spectacle. Vermont very tight, closer living and 193 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:23,480 Speaker 1: literally you'd have like town officials and clergy and stuff 194 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 1: in there, you know, desecrating the graves in a sort 195 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:31,559 Speaker 1: of ceremony. But take it all the way back to Europe, 196 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 1: it seems to me, and I'm sure that there's many 197 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:36,960 Speaker 1: shades are great at this, but that the most common 198 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 1: things to do were like buying the feet of the 199 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 1: course with thorns, run a steak through its heart, maybe 200 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 1: stack it down to the earth so it couldn't get up, 201 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:48,680 Speaker 1: put something into his mouth, beheaded right, and then turn 202 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:53,320 Speaker 1: the head facing down. Sometimes in New England they would 203 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:55,600 Speaker 1: literally just dig it up and flip the corpse over. 204 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:00,319 Speaker 1: They might rearrange the parts. The skull and cross bones 205 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:04,559 Speaker 1: comes up a lot. Our Poul Michael Bell has identified 206 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:11,319 Speaker 1: something like eight plus um graves that were exhumed uh 207 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 1: or thought to be exhumed from this period. He suspects 208 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:17,840 Speaker 1: that there's like at least a hundred more. But the 209 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 1: skull and crossbones comes up a lot. What bones would 210 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: you use for the for the crossbones? What bones would 211 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: I use? Or what bones are generally used both? Oh? 212 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 1: For me, I guess you know, I think it would 213 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 1: be neat if it were the forearms and and the 214 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 1: whole hand, the whole skeleton hand. Yeah, yeah, but I 215 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 1: think most people probably would just find two long bones, right, 216 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 1: so you would just maybe a thigh bone, maybe maybe 217 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 1: a thigh bone, maybe something cool from the arms, one 218 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 1: of the limbs, a rib cage with a wonky you know. Um, 219 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 1: that's that's is my take. You know, my favorite bones 220 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:06,560 Speaker 1: are the funny bone. I don't remember all their names. 221 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:09,680 Speaker 1: There's there's like three little bones in your ear. Oh yeah, 222 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 1: hammer the anvil and the uh the kumquat rubarb. Yeah, 223 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 1: they hammer the stirrup. Oh yeah, the hammer, the anvil, 224 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 1: the stirrup. I just think that those little bones really 225 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 1: make life cool. Oh yeah, you're you're also an audio file. 226 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 1: What you say an audio file? I can't hear you. 227 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 1: Oh boy. So George Brown is a tragic figure. He's 228 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 1: driven to grief and he he is not there during 229 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 1: this exhumation. Um, but the people who, like you said, 230 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 1: it was regionally varied in terms of what kind of 231 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:54,120 Speaker 1: methods were used and who was expected to be pressent. 232 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:56,480 Speaker 1: So they dig up the mom she did like ten 233 00:15:56,600 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: years ago. She's her body's her corpses, like totally decomposed. 234 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 1: They're like, okay, probably not a vampire. They dig up 235 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 1: the daughter, the first daughter at the time, she died 236 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 1: nine years ago, though totally decomposed. Yeah, probably not a vampire. 237 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 1: Then they exhume Mercy Lena Brown, the daughter that's only 238 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 1: died about two months ago. As I understand, she wasn't 239 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 1: actually in the ground. She was in a tomb above 240 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:24,640 Speaker 1: the ground. I believe, Yes, Yeah, the ground was frozen 241 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 1: they couldn't dig down. She's in this above ground tomb, 242 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 1: so they crack that open. Well, she's not very decomposed, right, 243 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 1: She's got the thing you're talking about where it looks 244 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:38,240 Speaker 1: like her fingernails and hairben ground. She's she's looked better, 245 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:40,360 Speaker 1: but she looks like she's in pretty good shape. It's 246 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:43,520 Speaker 1: about two months after her death. Yeah, and she's also 247 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 1: got the signs of consumption, right, you know, she's she's 248 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:52,120 Speaker 1: wasted away, she's she's maybe got rosy cheeks. Ah, everything 249 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 1: that I've read sounds like the description would be super 250 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 1: normal for someone that had died obviously tragically, but like 251 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 1: under those conditions, it's like a super normal way for 252 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 1: that corpse to look right then, especially in the cold, 253 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 1: very very cold winters. You know, you're basically refrigerated. You're 254 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:10,880 Speaker 1: gonna last a while. But the folks that are there 255 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:15,479 Speaker 1: that night decide, well, that's definitely the vampire. Yeah, and 256 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 1: they and they, This is a really great point you 257 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:20,480 Speaker 1: brought up earlier. It may have been in Part one. 258 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:25,120 Speaker 1: They probably don't use the word vampire. They probably use 259 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:29,399 Speaker 1: some other words. Some there's something describing a spirit, maybe 260 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:32,960 Speaker 1: something that is a regional dialect lost to history because 261 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:37,400 Speaker 1: the media of the time, they will go contemporaneous media 262 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 1: excuse me, will describe it to outsiders as vampiresm but 263 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 1: there's not a lot of evidence they said vampire. We 264 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 1: do know for sure. They decided something terrible was afoot 265 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 1: and supernatural, and so according to the beliefs that they 266 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:58,400 Speaker 1: were practicing, uh, Mercy's heart and liver were removed and burned, 267 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:02,879 Speaker 1: and then they hooked the ashes of what they burned, 268 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:06,960 Speaker 1: mixed it with water and gave it to Edwin Brown, 269 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:11,600 Speaker 1: the boy, to drink. And they thought this would cure 270 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:15,919 Speaker 1: him of his affliction and prevent any any of the 271 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 1: undead from influencing him. This proved to be incorrect, as 272 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:24,359 Speaker 1: he passed away two months later. I mean, it's a 273 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:28,320 Speaker 1: it's a terrible, terrible story, but it really happened, and 274 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 1: George Brown went along with it. And you know, they're 275 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:32,680 Speaker 1: all buried next to each other in a I mean 276 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,399 Speaker 1: that whole family that's still an active cemetery and Exeter 277 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 1: and and they're all there. I mean I read one 278 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:41,160 Speaker 1: article that put it like and Mercies buried there between 279 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:45,119 Speaker 1: the father that had her exhumed, the brother that drank 280 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:47,920 Speaker 1: her heart liver. That is the one of the really 281 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 1: common um cure solution that you see in New England 282 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 1: was cutting out the vital organs. Do you know how 283 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 1: many vital organs? How many vital organs are Do you 284 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:03,119 Speaker 1: mean like in the world altogether, or like the average human, 285 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:06,920 Speaker 1: I mean in a single human body. Well, it's interesting 286 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 1: because the kidneys are vital organs, but they roll in 287 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 1: a pair. So if we counted them as one, I'd say, 288 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:21,440 Speaker 1: let's see liver, lungs, heart, brain, does the does the 289 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 1: pancreas make the list? Well? Skin, it is an organ. No, 290 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 1: everybody forgets about skin and skin is an organ. So 291 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 1: this that I pulled said, the heart, lungs, kidneys, liver, 292 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 1: and spleen, spleen, the spleen bro The brain doesn't count. 293 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:40,360 Speaker 1: Now you don't need a brain. No, I think you're right. 294 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:42,879 Speaker 1: I think you're right. Um it's a term that I 295 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:46,719 Speaker 1: hear and I've just I've wanted about. Um. I think 296 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 1: you're right that the brain is pretty vital except for 297 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 1: making this show. Yeah, so we're we're adding some levity 298 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 1: here because we are talking about really disturbing stuff, and 299 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:00,880 Speaker 1: you can also see other cases. Is like you mentioned 300 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 1: alex in Vermont with the case of Frederick Ransom, you 301 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 1: can also see that they believed, at least in the 302 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:13,880 Speaker 1: case of the Brown family, they believed that they were exercising, 303 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:16,960 Speaker 1: you know, critical thinking. They didn't think anybody was acting 304 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 1: crazy because they didn't do this to the corpses of 305 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:23,800 Speaker 1: the Marys. The corpses of the Mary's appeared to have 306 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 1: rotted and not to be preserved. And the Brown exhumations, 307 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 1: as as you pointed out, even though this made Rhode 308 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 1: Island known as the vampire capital of America or whatever 309 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 1: the breathless headlines where it's the Brown exhumations are just 310 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 1: one of many more that were in the area around 311 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:52,120 Speaker 1: this time. And I appreciate that you pointed out Michael 312 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: Bell's work saying, Okay, I've found over eighty things that 313 00:20:56,680 --> 00:21:00,440 Speaker 1: somehow qualify as vampire rituals. And he also who says 314 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:06,720 Speaker 1: I think this started at least by seventy four, if 315 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:10,359 Speaker 1: not earlier, and it persisted. This is the crazy part. 316 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:17,240 Speaker 1: It persisted all the way to eight after Coke found 317 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:29,920 Speaker 1: the bacteria that causes tuberculosis. Excuse me, Consumption two is 318 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 1: super modern, right, I mean, there's phonograph records that are old, 319 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 1: that old, I think, Yeah, I mean the motion pictures 320 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:41,399 Speaker 1: are about to be a thing in a few years, 321 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 1: automobiles coming around pretty so yeah, I mean, yeah, that's 322 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 1: that's that's that's just right around the corner. It seems 323 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:50,919 Speaker 1: like the media really had a field day with the 324 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:54,800 Speaker 1: Mercy Browns story. Yes, I mean even still, um, I 325 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:59,000 Speaker 1: read when one place talking about you've been to Salem, Massachusetts. Briefly, 326 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:01,920 Speaker 1: they really, you know, sort of have as a town 327 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 1: leaned into the which trials thing is kind of a 328 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,639 Speaker 1: kitchen you know, sort of tourist tourist trapped kind of 329 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:11,040 Speaker 1: and exit is not like that at all with as 330 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 1: I understand, I have not been an exit. I've been 331 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:15,240 Speaker 1: to Salem, but exit apparently does not lean into that 332 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:18,679 Speaker 1: sort of direction at all. Though, like I said, the 333 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:22,639 Speaker 1: graves are still there. But the media at the time 334 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:24,679 Speaker 1: really seems to have had a field day with it, 335 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:29,119 Speaker 1: a lotted the word vampire all around. Yeah. Yeah, and 336 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 1: in a way that may have harmed more than it helps, 337 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:38,120 Speaker 1: but it definitely had an effect on culture, and it's 338 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:42,880 Speaker 1: one that remains with us today. We know that, as 339 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 1: you said, there were variations and what people thought was happening, 340 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:50,040 Speaker 1: their variations in the way they tried to address it. 341 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 1: But the things that were the things that we're categorizing 342 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:58,720 Speaker 1: as vampire rituals all describe a situation where a grave 343 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:01,920 Speaker 1: was desecrated. That it's exactly what happened. And there are 344 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,320 Speaker 1: things that people didn't even know about until like the 345 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 1: nineteen nineties when I think it was some kids playing 346 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 1: who originally discovered this mass grave in Griswold, Connecticut, and 347 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,920 Speaker 1: they found these bodies had the skeletons at least had 348 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 1: parts of parts of their anatomy shattered and rearranged into 349 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 1: those skull and crossbone patterns you mentioned. See folks, we 350 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 1: we we got there. That was that was foreshadowing. That 351 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 1: wasn't just our mutual love of pirates. You know, there's 352 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:34,760 Speaker 1: one there was one of the things that I that 353 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 1: I read about a symptom that people would, you know, 354 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:41,679 Speaker 1: think of when they when they dig up the corpse 355 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 1: and look at the corpse. One of the things that 356 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:45,639 Speaker 1: they would say, oh, that's a vampire is if it 357 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,840 Speaker 1: looked bloated like it had just eaten. Yes, that would 358 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:52,879 Speaker 1: be the well fed aspect, right, yeah, which would just 359 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 1: be from what like the gases of like just natural 360 00:23:55,800 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 1: decomposition breaking down. Yeah, probably gas is produced by the 361 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:05,160 Speaker 1: I was gonna say entities, but as Helen's super too, 362 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:11,160 Speaker 1: supernatural gases produced by the very tiny things digesting. Uh, 363 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:14,359 Speaker 1: this is yeah, this is unfortunate that gas does happen. 364 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:19,440 Speaker 1: But this is also before modern. Yes, it's before modern. 365 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:24,160 Speaker 1: Is Beano still count as modern? Why don't they name 366 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,640 Speaker 1: it bean? No? Hey, bro, it's it's clearly memorable because 367 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:29,960 Speaker 1: I just dropped it in here. It's just I've never 368 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 1: heard it, not said it in an awkward way. You know, 369 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,359 Speaker 1: maybe we just need some some to do our quiet 370 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:40,399 Speaker 1: storm voices and do a Pino commercial even then and stuff. 371 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:48,760 Speaker 1: Oh should have taken Pino exactly. So this is um. 372 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 1: This is interesting because for people who are outside of 373 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:55,720 Speaker 1: the New England area at this time, as you said, 374 00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:01,359 Speaker 1: feels really surprisingly modern. People who are reading about this 375 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,879 Speaker 1: because does get a lot of headlines, they think it 376 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 1: looks kind of primitive, a lot of like a lot 377 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:11,879 Speaker 1: of folks in Europe and so on. They're saying, you know, 378 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:16,280 Speaker 1: we're in a new era. It's the eighteen hundreds. We're 379 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:20,159 Speaker 1: into science now, we're learning about the world. We have 380 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 1: agreed as a civilization that this universe is both understandable 381 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:29,119 Speaker 1: and worth understanding. What the heck is happening over there 382 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 1: in Well, they probably didn't call them the colonies at 383 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 1: that point unless they were very stuck up in very British. 384 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:39,479 Speaker 1: But a few years after the American Revolution, yeah, you know, 385 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:43,200 Speaker 1: but it's like thirty the little lesson thirty years. There 386 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:45,639 Speaker 1: are some that will always call them the colonists and 387 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 1: the colonies. Look at these the primitives in the colonies 388 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:55,199 Speaker 1: clearly been tainted by folklore. Yeah, whatever the case was, 389 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,840 Speaker 1: it was it was not seen as a normal thing. 390 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 1: What we mean is there are not a lot of 391 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 1: people in Western Europe at the time going, uh yeah, 392 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 1: I mean sometimes, yeah, you gotta do it, Yetta dig 393 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,400 Speaker 1: them up, flip them over, it happens. I mean, that's 394 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 1: that's the jam. No one was really saying that in 395 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:17,560 Speaker 1: Western Europe, and instead they were saying this is they 396 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 1: were describing it as uh as a d evolution of sorts. Culturally, socially, 397 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 1: they were saying, this is like the darkest age of unreasoning, 398 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 1: ignorance and blind superstition. And it was lumped in with 399 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 1: stories of werewolves and witches, another European folklore, tall tales 400 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:45,160 Speaker 1: that were generally in Western Europe considered to be myths 401 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:49,440 Speaker 1: by that time. Right, And there's this interesting piece of speculation, 402 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:51,680 Speaker 1: and maybe this is maybe this is where we start 403 00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:54,920 Speaker 1: to draw to a close here, Alex, did you hear 404 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:59,919 Speaker 1: that some folks believe this might have inspired the Draculus 405 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 1: we're remembering part one We talked about how post bram 406 00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:08,359 Speaker 1: Stoker vampires or vampiresm and culture is very different from 407 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:12,960 Speaker 1: pre Stoker. So I don't know, I like the theory. 408 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:15,439 Speaker 1: It's so it was so surprising to me that this 409 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 1: predated Bram bram Stoker's Dracula because of the way that 410 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 1: you really see it in the in the newspapers at 411 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,159 Speaker 1: the time, local papers, but also you know, larger circulation 412 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:29,920 Speaker 1: papers banding about the word vampire applied to these cases. 413 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 1: And I just figured that it was kind of maybe 414 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,879 Speaker 1: top of mind for people because because the novel was 415 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 1: so famous. But the novel did come after, but it 416 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:40,879 Speaker 1: came really close on the heels, right, So how quickly 417 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 1: can one write a novel? And he was based where 418 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:50,639 Speaker 1: bram Stoker is from, Ohio, Oh right, right, like columb Cincinnati. Yeah, 419 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:56,040 Speaker 1: I think he's he's not from Pennsylvania. I think he's 420 00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:58,920 Speaker 1: a natty boy. No, we're kidding, We're kidding. Bram Stoker 421 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,639 Speaker 1: is an Irish author. Well that's not funny, no, no, 422 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,280 Speaker 1: And that's kind of on him for not having the 423 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:07,960 Speaker 1: foresight to be born in a place that would be 424 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:10,880 Speaker 1: funnier in the context of this show. But so the idea, right, 425 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 1: is that two is when the Mercy Browns story, Well, 426 00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:18,439 Speaker 1: that's when it happens, and it's also when the chatter 427 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:22,640 Speaker 1: is going on about it in the American newspapers. How 428 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:26,640 Speaker 1: quickly could he have like gotten that, ingested it, consumed it, 429 00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:30,840 Speaker 1: and then you know, manifested it into a novel and 430 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:34,000 Speaker 1: got it out. Yeah. It's interesting because there was a 431 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 1: clipping from New York World in eighteen nine six that 432 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:43,320 Speaker 1: was later found in bram Stoker's papers. His theater company 433 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 1: had been touring the US at this time, in so 434 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 1: he probably ran into that reading just the local news. 435 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:55,600 Speaker 1: And his novel Dracula was published in eighteen nine seven. 436 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 1: So one of the big debates is how much time 437 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:00,480 Speaker 1: do you need to write a novel? Like that's enough time, 438 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 1: you think? So other people are arguing, they're they're arguing 439 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 1: in favor of this, and they're saying, Okay, how is 440 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 1: Lena not the character of Lucy? Right, they'd say, take 441 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,520 Speaker 1: Mercy and Lena and you sort of squash them together 442 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:19,240 Speaker 1: and you get Lucy and stuff. That was close enough. Yeah. 443 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:25,280 Speaker 1: And also it's, uh, it's very common for fiction authors, 444 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:29,080 Speaker 1: novelist or short story writers to take inspiration from real 445 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:33,440 Speaker 1: life events. You know, it's I would say that's more 446 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:38,080 Speaker 1: often than not. That's what actually happens. The interesting thing here, also, 447 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 1: the optimistic thing is that people aren't digging up their 448 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:46,840 Speaker 1: loved ones anymore for uh on suspicion of vampirism or 449 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 1: supernatural nefarious activities. Yeah, just to just to see them. 450 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:57,000 Speaker 1: Yet nothing creepy about that. And and generally that's believed 451 00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:02,720 Speaker 1: that that is because science came in, like science assumed 452 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:07,320 Speaker 1: a more a more prominent role and was able to 453 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:11,000 Speaker 1: explain some of what led to these infections, what led 454 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:17,040 Speaker 1: to the communication of consumption. And then knowing that knowing 455 00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 1: this explanation, people were in a better place to understand 456 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 1: and combat it. And that is luckily overall a happy 457 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:33,720 Speaker 1: ending to this week's series on the New England Vampire Panic, 458 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:37,680 Speaker 1: and we talked about some grizzly stuff. Alex. I really 459 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 1: appreciate your hanging out today. I love that we're able 460 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,160 Speaker 1: to do a two parter. Thank you as well. Uh 461 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 1: Mr Lowell Brilliante our guest super producer Ben. I have 462 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 1: a nagging question. Yeah, there's something about this that I 463 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 1: that doesn't sit like I just don't understand. Okay, I'm 464 00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:59,360 Speaker 1: Edwin Brown. Yes, I've got my sisters. You've cut my 465 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,640 Speaker 1: sister's art and liver out. You've burned them to ash. 466 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 1: Maybe I inhaled the smoke as you were burning them. 467 00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,680 Speaker 1: You've mixed that ash into water. You've made a tonic 468 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:09,880 Speaker 1: with it, maybe but a sprig of Freshman or whatever. 469 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 1: And you've given that to me and I drink that. 470 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 1: What did I get? Like if it was gonna work? 471 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 1: What is the sort of the logic and the folk magic. 472 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,560 Speaker 1: There's this idea that's kind of like sympathetic magic. You're 473 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:27,800 Speaker 1: kind of treating like with like so you are taking 474 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:32,600 Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's the old idea that the the 475 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:37,720 Speaker 1: poison or the source of an illness somehow transformed or 476 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:42,040 Speaker 1: going through certain rituals or treatments, can itself become the 477 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:46,800 Speaker 1: cure for that condition? Or within within the poison we 478 00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:50,400 Speaker 1: find the answer kind of idea that, no, I don't 479 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,880 Speaker 1: know the specifics in terms of why it needed to 480 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,640 Speaker 1: be the heart and the liver or rather than say 481 00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:00,400 Speaker 1: the lungs and the kidneys. That's a good question, but 482 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 1: that it does seem to have a logic, the ideas 483 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 1: that by digesting or consuming some essence of a thing, 484 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:15,600 Speaker 1: you are maybe inoculating yourself against it. But that's such 485 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 1: a science the way to think of it, though, like 486 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 1: what's the what's the spiritual angle on that? What's the 487 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 1: metaphysical angle on it? I'd be very interested to hear 488 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:29,040 Speaker 1: the metaphysical angle, And I think maybe it's something we 489 00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:31,480 Speaker 1: look into, right because we're gonna hang out a little 490 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 1: bit after this, so let's look into that together. I 491 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:38,240 Speaker 1: don't know about anybody else, but this is certainly worked 492 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 1: up an appetite for me. Quite a thirst, yes, quite 493 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:44,160 Speaker 1: a thirst, I would say, and not just for knowledge, 494 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:48,160 Speaker 1: but of course not human blood. Yes, how much of 495 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:52,560 Speaker 1: you drink at one time? Do let us know? Ridiculous 496 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:57,040 Speaker 1: At iHeart media dot com. You can also contact us 497 00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:01,000 Speaker 1: on social media but while you're on the internet, may 498 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:05,520 Speaker 1: I recommend, uh, may I recommend checking out loll brilliante 499 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:08,040 Speaker 1: show that he's working on when he when he's not 500 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:11,080 Speaker 1: hanging out here with us. It is Prodigy. It is 501 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:15,360 Speaker 1: available wherever you find your favorite podcast. Alex, you also 502 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,120 Speaker 1: have a show. It's aphemeral, it's kick ass. I'm not 503 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:20,880 Speaker 1: just saying that because my pal Nolan I have appeared 504 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:25,560 Speaker 1: on a couple of episodes. But more importantly, we want 505 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,520 Speaker 1: to know why why? What is the what is the 506 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:36,400 Speaker 1: metaphysical logic? Perhaps behind this the specificity of these vampire rituals. 507 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,760 Speaker 1: I don't know, Alex. Saturday Night Live rules dictate that 508 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:42,840 Speaker 1: the next time you're back it will be your fifth 509 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:46,000 Speaker 1: time guest toasting, which means we have to give you 510 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:49,960 Speaker 1: a special jacket. Cool. Yeah, well but this was my 511 00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:54,320 Speaker 1: third time. We just did two episodes because for that 512 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:56,680 Speaker 1: counts is for Just think about what kind of jacket 513 00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,640 Speaker 1: you want and remember that special doesn't necessarily mean great. 514 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,440 Speaker 1: Mean I should say that fan Ro's got Halloween stuff. 515 00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:06,719 Speaker 1: All October. We did a thing about her carving Carnival 516 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:11,759 Speaker 1: of Souls. We're doing a story about adaptation thing. Uh, 517 00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:15,520 Speaker 1: really great creepy story about demonic possession in a scrap book, 518 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,839 Speaker 1: which I know sounds wonky as hell, but like it's 519 00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 1: it's a classic story, really really think scary. You'd like 520 00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:29,239 Speaker 1: to say that, yeah, well, okay, thank you bleeping scary. Yes, 521 00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:32,560 Speaker 1: And I can personally vouch for that episode of Carnival 522 00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,640 Speaker 1: of Souls is one of my favorite horror movies. And 523 00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:39,080 Speaker 1: I think you will be surprised to learn just how 524 00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:45,080 Speaker 1: deeply Alex and Trevor and Max Williams worked together, Like 525 00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:49,560 Speaker 1: how deeply you all delved into that story. So I 526 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,080 Speaker 1: I say that not just as a friend, but as 527 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:54,960 Speaker 1: a fan. Do check out the show. It is free 528 00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:57,920 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcast. That's gonna be all for 529 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,640 Speaker 1: us today. Happy haw woween everyone, Stay safe out there, 530 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:11,160 Speaker 1: and we'll talk to you again real soon. For more 531 00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:13,680 Speaker 1: podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, 532 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,800 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.