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Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Hello

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Speaker 1: and welcome to Ridiculous History. It's weird. I'm not been bowling.

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Speaker 1: I'm Noel Brown. Ben usually says a pithy thing at

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Speaker 1: the top of the show, but I'm just not that clever.

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Speaker 1: But I'll tell you what I have here is someone

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Speaker 1: who is that clever. And its name is Christopher Haciota,

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Speaker 1: so you know and love and we always say we

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Speaker 1: have a Christopher shaped hole in the studio at the

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Speaker 1: end of each episode. And now that hole is filled.

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Speaker 1: Does that mean I'm supposed to say something pithy and clever?

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Speaker 1: Now you just did. Just just your presence alone is

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Speaker 1: all the pithiness and cleverness anyone here means. But give

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Speaker 1: it some time, it'll just come naturally flowing forth. I

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Speaker 1: think I should. So what do I say? I say?

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Speaker 1: I say, you're no, I'm Ben. And that's a different show.

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Speaker 1: Already different show man, you're talking about I am we

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Speaker 1: are you? Are you? This is? This is a different show.

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Speaker 1: Who are we? We are Ridiculous History. Oh great, didn't

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Speaker 1: already say that. I'm in the right place. I'm glad

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Speaker 1: that you're here because Ben is as he would say

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Speaker 1: on Adventures Abroad, kicked into and out of whatever whatever

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Speaker 1: tends to and out of. And I don't know. I

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Speaker 1: don't want to. I don't want to spill the tea

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Speaker 1: as the kids say about what bends up to too much.

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Speaker 1: I will say, he is in Japan, um, but he's

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Speaker 1: got some pretty cool stories to tell when he gets back,

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Speaker 1: So I don't want to scoop him on any of that.

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Speaker 1: I think you just spilled the t No, I spilled

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Speaker 1: the tea about his location. So you guys can use

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Speaker 1: Theater of the Mind two invent some scenarios as to

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Speaker 1: what Ben may or may not be up to. And

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Speaker 1: that was my segue intaid today's episode, which is a

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Speaker 1: lot about creating scenarios that may or may not have

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Speaker 1: actually happened, uh in Theater of the Mind. So that's

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Speaker 1: sort of like, um, well let me ask you this.

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Speaker 1: Sure you like fights, right, Um, I like you like

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Speaker 1: battles and stuff like battles. I like debates, I do,

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Speaker 1: I do. Yeah. I know you did this when you

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Speaker 1: were a kid, right, you're a comic book fan, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it kind of care to that later in life. But

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Speaker 1: I think I see where you're going So, you know,

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Speaker 1: one one sort of schoolyard thing a lot of people

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Speaker 1: dive into is who would win in a fight Spiderman

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Speaker 1: versus Superman, the Invisible Woman versus Galactus. Invisible Man not

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Speaker 1: a superhero. It depends. I mean, are we talking League

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Speaker 1: of Extraordinary Gentleman Fantastic four? I mean League of Extraordinary Gentleman?

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Speaker 1: They superhero if I the Invisible Man, don't they? It

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Speaker 1: is sort of a fantasy mashup of of of powerful people.

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Speaker 1: I would argue that Invisible Man versus Invisible Woman very

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Speaker 1: dull fight. Well, unless you're the Predator's right, you're the predator.

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Speaker 1: And then it's just like watching two hot bodies, Hot bodies?

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Speaker 1: Where are you going with this? Christopher? Where you going

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Speaker 1: with this? What do we? What do we got going

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Speaker 1: on today? So I wanted to talk to you about

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Speaker 1: another fantasy and this is the sort of thing you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean, fantasy fighting is Uh, people probably went all

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Speaker 1: the way back and we're like, I bet Galahad could

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Speaker 1: beat Guenevere in the Battle Galahad versus Guenevere. Indeed, who knows, Uh,

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Speaker 1: we don't have historical records that go back that far.

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Speaker 1: At least I don't have any here in this drawer,

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Speaker 1: But we do have a really strange instance in recent

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Speaker 1: history of a fantasy battle that was a sort of

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Speaker 1: thing that people would argue about in barbershops, in bars,

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Speaker 1: over a sandwich, over a beer, Muhammad Ali versus Rocky Marciano,

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Speaker 1: exactly who would reign supreme right? And this is a

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Speaker 1: fight that never took place. It did not take place

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Speaker 1: because these two men, these two boxing champions, we're not

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Speaker 1: the same age, they were not of the same era.

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Speaker 1: It wouldn't be like arguing who would put on a

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Speaker 1: better show the Beatles or the Stones. It would be

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Speaker 1: like saying, who would put on a better show the

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Speaker 1: Beatles or Matchbox? We know the answered that obviously Matchbox

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Speaker 1: to the Beatles were notorious, not very good live band.

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Speaker 1: Matchbox twenty wasn't a very good anything. You're crazy? What

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Speaker 1: do you tell? It's three am? I must be lonely.

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Speaker 1: Have I brought enough tangents for this? Have we met

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Speaker 1: the tangent quota yet? Oh? No, no, no, that that

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Speaker 1: that we have not yet to begin to scratch the

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Speaker 1: surface of tangents that we will scratch in this episode.

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Speaker 1: But let's talk about some superlative, shall we the Fight

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Speaker 1: of the Century, The Thriller in Manila, The Rumble in

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Speaker 1: the Jungle, All of these names from Mohammed Ali's Big

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Speaker 1: Fight the Big Guys. Have you heard of the super

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Speaker 1: Fight like Superman? Yeah, exactly, exactly like Mohammad Al Superman

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Speaker 1: in a comic book. Yeah, I haven't seen that one.

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Speaker 1: But no, The super Fight a fictional fight that took

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Speaker 1: place in nineteen seventy where the aged um Rocky Marciana

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Speaker 1: was pitted against the fresh out of the clink um

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Speaker 1: Mohammad Ali. Because Mohammad Ali, you see, protested the draft

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Speaker 1: and said that he didn't have any problem with the

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Speaker 1: viet Cong. What he did have a problem with was

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Speaker 1: all these white folks in America. We're you know, booing

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Speaker 1: and hissing at him and like treating him like persona

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Speaker 1: non grata. So he's like, I think I'm just gonna

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Speaker 1: stay here, uh, And he did. He got stripped of

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Speaker 1: his title temporarily and thrown in jail, and he got

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Speaker 1: out and needed to make a little extra oney. He

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Speaker 1: actually so I don't want to get ahead of ourselves. Um,

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Speaker 1: let's get to the mastermind behind this fake fight. It

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Speaker 1: was a guy named Murray Warrener, who was an AD

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Speaker 1: executive from Miami. AD executives always have the bit the

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Speaker 1: big ideas, right, They're all about the creative here. So

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Speaker 1: he got really creative and decided that he could use

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Speaker 1: some of this emerging computer technology UM to initially create

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Speaker 1: fantasy fights in the form of radio plays. Exciting, it

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Speaker 1: sounds exciting. It's that theater of the mind, right, because

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Speaker 1: we know, UM, that was the way people consume sports.

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Speaker 1: That's the reason sports commentary exists, baseball announcers and all

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Speaker 1: of that. They paint a picture in your mind. Why

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Speaker 1: couldn't you do that and just make it all up

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Speaker 1: or generate the results from computer algorithms from something called

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Speaker 1: an NCR three computer that had five K, yes, five

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Speaker 1: K kilobytes of core memory and it was handmade, UM,

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Speaker 1: and it was able to take these stats and create

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Speaker 1: play by plays of different sporting events. So you're telling

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Speaker 1: me that in nine there was a technology by which

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Speaker 1: we could use digital production methods to create an audio

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Speaker 1: drama of really compelling storytelling. Yeah, but the digital part

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Speaker 1: was really just to create the data, right. It was

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Speaker 1: crunching numbers at this point. It was saying based on

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Speaker 1: these stats feeded into this machine, it'll generate you a winner,

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Speaker 1: and it will generate you like these different scenarios. Right. NCR,

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Speaker 1: by the way, you know it stands for I don't

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Speaker 1: National Cash Register because you may be aware of the

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Speaker 1: NCR company as manufacturers today of a t M machines UM,

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Speaker 1: But back in these days they were on the cutting

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Speaker 1: edge of of essentially I guess home computing. This wouldn't

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Speaker 1: have this wouldn't have been attainable to the average person.

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Speaker 1: But I think you found some pretty cool ads from

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Speaker 1: not exactly the three fifteen, but something around the same time.

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Speaker 1: Let's let's hear what they were promising with these devices.

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Speaker 1: Consider the outstanding features of the Century three hundred. First,

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Speaker 1: the hardware Century three hundred is an amalgamation of innovative

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Speaker 1: technology in the most advanced systems architecture. Century three hundred

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Speaker 1: is composed of four independently functioning units, the memory processor,

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Speaker 1: IO controller, and the operator's communication center. Yeah, those are

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Speaker 1: the NCR machines. And they do make a t M

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Speaker 1: s UM or a t M machines As you say, no,

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Speaker 1: it's very redundant, as like saying in cheese casada. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: It's just it's not right. It's like saying Muhammad Ali

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Speaker 1: the greatest boxer, Like you just know if you do

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Speaker 1: know it, you don't need to say it. His autobiography

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Speaker 1: is called the Greatest my own story. Well you know why,

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Speaker 1: because he's the greatest, the greatest he gets he gets

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Speaker 1: that title. Um. Now, these were not home computers. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we got to remember this is still back in the

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Speaker 1: day of like punch card computing. So what Warrener did

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Speaker 1: was he basically reduced uh, some of the greatest boxers

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Speaker 1: in the history of of the sports, sixteen different fighters,

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Speaker 1: um too little cutouts on these punch cards, just basically

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Speaker 1: listing out their statistics. This one has ex agility, this

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Speaker 1: one has power, almost like like a little more advanced

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Speaker 1: version of D and D. You know where you're rolling

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Speaker 1: the however, many nerds sided dies we're talking about here, yeah,

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Speaker 1: or on the back of those you know. Since we

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Speaker 1: started talking about comic books earlier on, they were in

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Speaker 1: the nineties, they were really popular with that sort of

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Speaker 1: like baseball cards, but for superheroes exactly. Okay, well, Spider

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Speaker 1: Man can jump this high, but Superman can leap tall building.

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Speaker 1: That's right, you know, so plus or minus, different stats,

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Speaker 1: different characters, stats, so very I mean, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I hopefully hopefully I'm not oversimplifying this too much. But

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Speaker 1: that was the idea. And you're talking about a computer

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Speaker 1: with with five kilobytes of memory. Simplification is I think

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Speaker 1: you're right. It's the name, it's the name of the

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Speaker 1: game here. So with this data, Warner was able to

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Speaker 1: generate fifteen matches and have them voiced essentially as though

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Speaker 1: they were real. It makes sense. It's theater of the mind.

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Speaker 1: There's no there's nothing stopping you. If I had the

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Speaker 1: voice of a radio announcer and I knew how to

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Speaker 1: talk about a baseball game, I could fake a baseball

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Speaker 1: game with you right now? Did we? I think we

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Speaker 1: just invented a new podcast. Yeah, yeah, we should just

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Speaker 1: pitch this to our bosses. We just recreate classic sports matchups,

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Speaker 1: of which I am at a loss to name because

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Speaker 1: but it's it's an alternative history version of these sports matches. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's interesting that you mentioned alternative history because Warner also

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Speaker 1: he saw a much bigger potential for this process. It

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Speaker 1: was about sports. Yes, now, what's there's a quote from

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Speaker 1: him that his mind boggling lye uh, brazen and just

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Speaker 1: full of hubris, as though he had figured out the

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Speaker 1: most amazing thing in the history of entertainment. Yet Warner

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Speaker 1: had really, really high thoughts. There was a piece from

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Speaker 1: Sports Illustrated where he's quoted as saying, we could do

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Speaker 1: more than sports, much more wars, Hitler's Germany against the

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Speaker 1: Roman Empire, Napoleon versus Alexander the Great. How about election campaigns,

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Speaker 1: George Washington versus Franklin Roosevelt, Abraham Lincoln against George Wallace,

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Speaker 1: and debates Socrates takes on Carl Mark's thorough against John

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Speaker 1: Paul Sart. Why not? Why not? Why not? Indeed, I'll

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Speaker 1: tell you why not? Because this is so reductive, right,

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Speaker 1: because like, at least with a thing like box saying

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Speaker 1: you kind of can match up stats and that sort

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Speaker 1: of makes sense. But like with a debate or like

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Speaker 1: a poetry slam or something like that, that all comes

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Speaker 1: down to individual creativity and like coming up with the

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Speaker 1: right words that are actually better as opposed to like,

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Speaker 1: you know, boxing and someone being able to I'm not

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Speaker 1: saying that like sports aren't don't have an art form

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Speaker 1: to themselves, but it's a lot easier to crunch some

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Speaker 1: numbers and say who's gonna win in a boxing match

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Speaker 1: than it is a debate or like some kind of

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Speaker 1: philosophical arguments. Well, it's interesting because I think, and I've

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Speaker 1: heard you know, we work in a creative industry, and

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Speaker 1: I've heard this from a lot of people, both in

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Speaker 1: in podcasts, but also people we know who work in

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Speaker 1: in film and radio and television. And you know, they'll

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Speaker 1: come up with a really creative, compelling idea for a

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Speaker 1: for a new show, a movie, and they'll pitch it

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Speaker 1: to the studios, and the studios will say, no, we're

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Speaker 1: in the digital age, that everything's Internet. We have statistics

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Speaker 1: and analysis for everything. So we'll run the numbers, and

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Speaker 1: this movie will not appeal to the right people in

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Speaker 1: the right amount of time for the right season, and

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Speaker 1: so it won't make money and it's not worth doing.

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Speaker 1: And I think there's this idea that hanging things on

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Speaker 1: numbers and analysis and and that sort of data driven

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Speaker 1: model is a new thing, and it's it's a woe

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Speaker 1: of our current age. But go back to the seventies

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Speaker 1: and we're all already doing it. This is not even

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Speaker 1: the seventies yet, this is like sixty eight. This is

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Speaker 1: the turn. It's crazy, and you're right, I mean not

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Speaker 1: to get too off the off the rail here, but

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Speaker 1: like Netflix, I mean they live and die by the algorithm, dude.

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Speaker 1: Like they all of that that data that we're feeding Netflix,

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Speaker 1: they use that to choose what kind of thing they're

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Speaker 1: going to make. Neix. I think everything all do usually

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Speaker 1: it's falling asleep on the couch by the Netflix algorithm.

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Speaker 1: But I I don't know how to pick anything on

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Speaker 1: Netflix anymore because it's trying to cater to me so

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Speaker 1: hard that it's literally giving me like nothing that I

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Speaker 1: want to see. I don't know how that that makes

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Speaker 1: any sense at all, But like I just scroll through

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Speaker 1: Netflix thumbnails infinitely and never actually pick something and send

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Speaker 1: rewatching the office. That's because I know it's you know,

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Speaker 1: but that's not even gonna be on there for very

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Speaker 1: It is the tragedy of choice. But we digress. It's

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Speaker 1: just to get back to the stats and what those

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Speaker 1: factors would have looked like. They had fifty eight different factors.

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Speaker 1: That's not even that many considering um, but it was

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Speaker 1: things like we're talking about like bead uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: probability of injury, um, how strong the left you can throw, etcetera,

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Speaker 1: and even things like I love this Guardian article again

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Speaker 1: characterizes as the sublime hardness of punch, killer instinct and courage.

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Speaker 1: I wonder how many people had to contribute to say, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think this guy's got a seven killer instinct,

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Speaker 1: and people like no, no, no, no, that's an eight.

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Speaker 1: That's much more like you look at that instinct for sure,

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Speaker 1: it's absolutely it's absolutely killer. So this is a thing

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Speaker 1: that starts happening, and he uh assigns, um, these sixteen fighters,

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Speaker 1: you know, number values. So Rocky Marciano is number zero

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Speaker 1: zero four and Jack Dempsey another classic boxer, zero zero two.

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Speaker 1: And in the thirteen round of these uh these matches

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Speaker 1: that we're talking about, um, it has Rocky Marciano knocking

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Speaker 1: out Jack Dempsey. So Muhammad Ali was also part of

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Speaker 1: this group of fighters that that Warner had put together,

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Speaker 1: right for sure? And what what how and with him,

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Speaker 1: so he was pitted against a guy named Jim Jeffries,

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Speaker 1: who Ali had openly be because we know Ali was

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Speaker 1: known for his uh, his quick wit and trash mouth,

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Speaker 1: right yeah, and and this was no exception. He very

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Speaker 1: openly trashed. Uh Jefferies as quote history is clumsiest, most

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Speaker 1: slow footed heavyweight. Um. So he was none too pleased

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Speaker 1: when the old NCR three fifteen uh said that Ali

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Speaker 1: would have lost in a quarterfinal round two. Uh. This um,

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Speaker 1: this man he characterized as being a pretty slow, bad boxer,

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Speaker 1: because you know, Ali was known as being super quick

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Speaker 1: on his feet and you know, the greatest, like we said,

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Speaker 1: So he actually takes a step further. He's not doing

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Speaker 1: particularly great money wise, because he got stripped of all

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Speaker 1: his stuff and he was in jail, and he definitely

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Speaker 1: like was not at his peak at this point. So

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Speaker 1: he probably made I mean, I don't know, I'm speculating here,

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Speaker 1: but saw out this as an opportunity to to make

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Speaker 1: a little cash and get back on his feet. So

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Speaker 1: he actually sues Warner. Yeah, I think it. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I obviously cannot put myself in the mind of Muhammad Ali.

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Speaker 1: But you know, in addition to the cash issue, like

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Speaker 1: this is this is a man who, rightfully so had

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Speaker 1: serious pride, you know, like he was the computation every

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Speaker 1: greatest for sure, you know so, and he had just

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Speaker 1: been dinged by the government. You know, he had been

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Speaker 1: had all these issues regarding his um, his stance on

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Speaker 1: the war. And then the next thing he knows, this

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Speaker 1: computer is saying that he would lose to Jim Jeffreys.

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Speaker 1: Like it's an outrage, so I think probably you know

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Speaker 1: he so he approaches Warner with a one million dollar

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Speaker 1: lawsuit saying that he was the famed and yeah, that

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Speaker 1: gets to the heart. It's it's defamation. It's misrepresentation of

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Speaker 1: himself and this character and his his abilities. First of all,

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Speaker 1: not to mention, like, again, a lot of these stats

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Speaker 1: that we're talking about Kilie speculative, right, I mean, fifty

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Speaker 1: eight individual components, these simulations utter fiction, wouldn't you agree?

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Speaker 1: I mean? And again it's it's late sixties. This is

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Speaker 1: very very primitive computer, very primitive. But Warner not primitive.

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Speaker 1: He's a pretty adept businessman, that guy. Know what's up.

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Speaker 1: He figures out a way out of this lawsuits. So

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Speaker 1: he says, all right, Mohammad Ali, you're suiting me for

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Speaker 1: a million dollars, but what about this instead? And and

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Speaker 1: that's always the fun part, you know, when you're like,

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Speaker 1: I'm just gonna propose an alternate route. And this alternate

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Speaker 1: route was for Warner to pay Mohammad Ali nine thousand

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Speaker 1: dollar less than ten k to film this fantasy fight.

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Speaker 1: And and the thing about this is what a great

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Speaker 1: opportunity to take this computer radio simulation and put it

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Speaker 1: on film. That was kind of taken into the next level.

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Speaker 1: They hadn't done any of these yet. Yeah, And and

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Speaker 1: he said, Muhammad Ali, how would you like to fight

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Speaker 1: Rocky Marciano? At the time, it's Mohammad Ali is in

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Speaker 1: his early thirties, which you know, it's not too old,

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Speaker 1: but at a boxer that's like long in the tooth, right,

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Speaker 1: and Marciano certainly was not ready for for fighting. He

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Speaker 1: was fifty years older time, that's right. He had made

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Speaker 1: a career as a sausage and Italian food impresario. Right. Um,

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Speaker 1: I think he had been out of the game for

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Speaker 1: about thirteen years. Um, had not been exercising, had gotten

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Speaker 1: quite paunchy, was balding, did not have a very good

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Speaker 1: back from years of you know, abuse in the ring,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure. But he had made quite a living as

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Speaker 1: a TV presenter. He had all these product endorsements, had

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Speaker 1: a chain of restaurants, a sausage factory. Um. He had

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Speaker 1: even like tried his hand at being a referee and

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Speaker 1: he he wasn't against doing this, and there was a

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Speaker 1: great there's a great story about how in the same

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Speaker 1: Guardian article about how he was was a notorious cheap skate.

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Speaker 1: He like would do that trick that I never thought

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Speaker 1: was really real, where you'd take a wire and attach

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Speaker 1: it to a coin and put on a pay phone

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Speaker 1: and then fish it back out, you know. And he apparently,

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Speaker 1: like his business manager characterized him as being just like

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Speaker 1: addicted to cash, whereas he would write checks for fifty

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Speaker 1: k like it was nothing, but if he had twenty

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Speaker 1: bucks in his pocket, he would do everything he could

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Speaker 1: to hold onto that twenty bucks because he grew up

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Speaker 1: in a different era where cash was kimping. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think about Marciana, right, he was born in the

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Speaker 1: early twenties, Um, so he grew up in the height

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Speaker 1: of the depression, you know, working probably black markets to

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Speaker 1: to find things for his family as a kid. And

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Speaker 1: that stays with you when you're that young. Um. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: he he really branched out after his boxing career kind

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Speaker 1: of wrapped up. It's it's really interesting. This has a

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Speaker 1: lot of parallels both both Marciana's story and then kind

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Speaker 1: of what we're going to get into with Rocky Balboa,

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Speaker 1: who is a fake hero but a hero nonetheless. Um,

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Speaker 1: but we can we can get back to that. Yeah. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about this video because it's it's really really creative. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean it reminds me. I was talking to super

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Speaker 1: producer Casey Pegraham, who I did not shout out at

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Speaker 1: the beginning the show. I think my presence here ruined.

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Speaker 1: It really threw off the vibe. We're also in a

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Speaker 1: different studio. I want to be very clear, there are

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Speaker 1: multiple reasons why I forgot to do that, But yes,

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Speaker 1: I was talking to our super producer, Casey pegram Um

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Speaker 1: about how the way this was filmed kind of reminds

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Speaker 1: me of some of those um early fighting games like

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Speaker 1: Mortal Kombat, where they actually have actors in costumes playing

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Speaker 1: out all of the different moves scenarios and then they

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Speaker 1: map it to video or I don't know exactly how

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Speaker 1: they do it. Casey could probably like explain it. I

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Speaker 1: don't think he's recording his mic. I'm on recording, sweet,

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Speaker 1: So how do they do that, Casey? Like in Mortal

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Speaker 1: Koma where they're shooting profiles of fighters, you know, addressed

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Speaker 1: like Scorpion and sub zero and they I think they

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Speaker 1: used to call it motion capture and yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: it's literally like point of camera at of surface that

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Speaker 1: is like a green screen or a black screen or whatever,

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Speaker 1: and just yeah, do all the do all the moves,

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Speaker 1: and then that turns into like a limited number of

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Speaker 1: frames because they didn't have enough memory in early video

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Speaker 1: games to like ingest all that stuff. Casey on the

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Speaker 1: K and similar to them, I mean, you've also got

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Speaker 1: video games like dragons Layer, which was sort of a

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Speaker 1: choose year in advention exactly, and I think this Rocky

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Speaker 1: Marciano Muhammad Ali fight is sort of a halfway in

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Speaker 1: between those two. Because so what Warner does is he

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Speaker 1: gets Marciano and Ali into the studio, which is a

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Speaker 1: boxing ring, and films him going through all the different

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Speaker 1: possible punches, uh, dodges, ducks that you could come across

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Speaker 1: in a boxing match, and then match it up to

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Speaker 1: the audio track that was generated from the stats that

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Speaker 1: the computer made for that matchup or whatever, based on

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Speaker 1: both men I believe in their prime, right. Yeah, So

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Speaker 1: this is the sort of thing where they shot this

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Speaker 1: on film. The boxing ring was set against a totally

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Speaker 1: black background, so there are not too many details that

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Speaker 1: would distract, so you could really cut from one punch

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Speaker 1: to the other to make it look as relatively seamless

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Speaker 1: as you can. I mean, you can see it now,

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Speaker 1: and it's all over the internet. Yeah, we'll will share

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Speaker 1: a link to this on the Ridiculous Historians facebook page.

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Speaker 1: Um so, if you're not part of that group, head

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Speaker 1: on over that way and to check out this fight.

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Speaker 1: It looks a little rudimentary to us now, but at

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Speaker 1: the time it was it was somewhat groundbreaking. It absolutely was.

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Speaker 1: I mean you can see the cuts. The continuity isn't great,

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Speaker 1: but like you said, because of the fact that they

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Speaker 1: made the background so simple, it isn't as distracting as

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Speaker 1: one might think. And they're literally recreating with these series

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Speaker 1: of kind of pre planned scenarios of them going through

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Speaker 1: the motions of what would happen, what could happen in

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Speaker 1: a fight. They recreate that algorithmically, I guess, for lack

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Speaker 1: of a better term, generated uh fight. Yeah, and no,

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Speaker 1: you've talked a lot about the theater of the mind,

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Speaker 1: but I mean this was just actual theater, just pure

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Speaker 1: theodrics on film. They wanted to make themselves look good.

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Speaker 1: Uh so all Muhammad Ali who had at the time

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Speaker 1: it took on a little bit of a paunch. He

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Speaker 1: lost about forty five pounds getting ready for this, but

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Speaker 1: at the same time he was still a little flabby.

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Speaker 1: Rocky Marciano, on the other hand, you know, he's he's

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Speaker 1: pushing fifty years old. He had on a two pay

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Speaker 1: to try to recapture that that younger look. But it

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Speaker 1: wasn't quite real. No it wasn't. But again it was

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Speaker 1: you gotta give him an a for effort because it

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Speaker 1: really I mean, I'm not a huge boxing guy. I know,

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Speaker 1: I'm not any kind of boxing guy, so I don't

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Speaker 1: even know what these dudes really looked like in their prime.

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Speaker 1: And I was looking at him like they didn't look

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Speaker 1: like two over the hill has been to me, it

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Speaker 1: looked like it looked like two pretty strong dudes that were,

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Speaker 1: you know, cut out to to be matched up against

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Speaker 1: each other. So we've got this, We've got this, uh

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Speaker 1: filmic event and it was actually shown in movie theaters

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Speaker 1: and apparently some of the edits are the segments that

425
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:50,600
Speaker 1: they that they created. Um because I would imagine too

426
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:52,720
Speaker 1: they knew in advance what the outcome was going to be.

427
00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:54,840
Speaker 1: They knew in advance what the play by plays were

428
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:59,119
Speaker 1: going to be. They must have done some work of

429
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:02,080
Speaker 1: actually recreate eating some of those things, you know, to

430
00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:05,320
Speaker 1: match with what was in the audio. And apparently some

431
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:07,080
Speaker 1: of them they did such a good job that they

432
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:09,680
Speaker 1: don't even have any edits, so there's no cuts. They

433
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:12,439
Speaker 1: go along perfectly. It looks, it looks great. So January

434
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:16,679
Speaker 1: is when the Super Fight aired in cinemas. There were

435
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,359
Speaker 1: a thousand cinemas in the US and five hundred more

436
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:22,840
Speaker 1: across the world Canada, Europe, Mexico, a couple other places,

437
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:25,480
Speaker 1: and people could go sit in the theater and really

438
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,920
Speaker 1: just witness to what at that point had just been

439
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:33,280
Speaker 1: pure fantasy, pure speculation. And you know, I mean, it's

440
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:35,640
Speaker 1: kind of like what we get into now with all

441
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:39,000
Speaker 1: these superhero crossover movies, where in the in the New

442
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,240
Speaker 1: Avengers movies, you get to see characters from Black Panther

443
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:46,600
Speaker 1: show up against the folks from Thor and Iron Man

444
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:50,560
Speaker 1: and just the sort of mishmash of fans service. And

445
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:52,800
Speaker 1: I want to point out to I made a mistake.

446
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:56,040
Speaker 1: They didn't know the outcome that they didn't know, the

447
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:59,120
Speaker 1: outcome until it came it was on live. So that's

448
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:01,399
Speaker 1: why they filmed in such a way. They could piece

449
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,800
Speaker 1: together those scenarios so that the men were not told

450
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:07,080
Speaker 1: who was going to be there, right, Yeah, exactly, because

451
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:08,480
Speaker 1: it was up to the computer. It was up to

452
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:10,360
Speaker 1: the computer to to figure it out. And they had

453
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:12,439
Speaker 1: to just like you know, get as much source material

454
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:14,720
Speaker 1: as they could so they could edit it together. Um,

455
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:18,400
Speaker 1: and what was the verdict. Well, what happened is on January,

456
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,440
Speaker 1: in front of crowds of thousands of people in movie theaters,

457
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:29,920
Speaker 1: Rocky Marciano chaos, Muhammad Ali round thirteen. So Ali puts

458
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 1: up a good fight, but according to the statistics, according

459
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 1: to the computer, it's Marciano. Yeah. And um, you know,

460
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 1: Ali he got himself into this because he felt like

461
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,640
Speaker 1: he was being defamed from all of this. So this

462
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,159
Speaker 1: is kind of almost as tragic outcome for him in

463
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,119
Speaker 1: terms of a blow to his ego, right that he

464
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 1: lost yet again. The computer, Um, you know saw him

465
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,920
Speaker 1: being defeated again, and he was actually quoted as saying, uh,

466
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:01,199
Speaker 1: that computer must have come from Alabama, Uh, you know,

467
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 1: implying it that choosing the white the white man as

468
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 1: the winner. Well, I think the thing about Ali is

469
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 1: there's so many sides to this really compelling man. You know,

470
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 1: he he had his public bluster and he had to

471
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:15,439
Speaker 1: put up his front. But the truth of the matter is,

472
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 1: you know, as much as he said that, oh, this

473
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:18,399
Speaker 1: whole thing was a hoax, it was a sham, I

474
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:20,919
Speaker 1: never would have lost blah blah blah, um kind of

475
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:24,119
Speaker 1: keeping that that facade up. He and Marciano had actually

476
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 1: become good friends during the creation of this thing, like buddies,

477
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 1: you know, they I think had that mutual professional respect

478
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,919
Speaker 1: and then hit it off while making this thing and

479
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:35,800
Speaker 1: and had a blast. You know. One of the ways

480
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 1: Muhammad Ali, though, was able to keep up this bluster

481
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:40,560
Speaker 1: and say, oh, I should have won and the computer

482
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:43,639
Speaker 1: did me wrong, is uh is Marciano wasn't able to

483
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 1: say the same thing because Marciano actually died about four

484
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 1: or five months before this. Um. This fight aired in theaters.

485
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 1: Marciano died August thirty one, nine, which is the day

486
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 1: before his birthday. Actually, um, he would have been in

487
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 1: his forties, and he was a passenger on a small

488
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:05,480
Speaker 1: plane and somewhere in Iowa, bad weather just sent the

489
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 1: plane down so he passed away, never got to see

490
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:09,920
Speaker 1: his victory over Ali, which is kind of a shame.

491
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,399
Speaker 1: Even though it wasn't a real victory, still might have

492
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 1: you know, it's still a little bit of pride in

493
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,680
Speaker 1: this guy passed his prime. Well again, the SINCR three

494
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 1: fifteen um that was being lauded by Warrener had so

495
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 1: much faith in Uh. People in the public is a

496
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 1: big part of this when I say people began losing

497
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 1: faith in this computer because you know, it's easy to

498
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 1: get fascinated by the new thing, the hottest new tech

499
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:33,439
Speaker 1: or whatever. Even back in those days, this seemed like

500
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 1: magic as far as people were concerned. But it started

501
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 1: making some pretty bunk calls. Right so um. Ali was

502
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:43,920
Speaker 1: pretty outspoken as he was wont to be um and

503
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 1: he referred to the outcome of the super Fi you

504
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 1: may have said this earlier, Christopher as a sham and

505
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 1: a Hollywood fake. He said all this on the Dick

506
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 1: Cabot show. Uh, And Warrener was not happy about that

507
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,640
Speaker 1: because he had paid Ali the money he he was due,

508
00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 1: and so Warrener uh sued Ali for two million bucks,

509
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,360
Speaker 1: claiming that another one of these fights fell through because

510
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 1: Ali was out there spewing all this hatred and lies

511
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 1: and you know, how dare you defame my, my, my

512
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:09,920
Speaker 1: dear sweet n c R three fifteen, And this one

513
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 1: would have been between Sugar Ray Robinson and Marcel Uh

514
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 1: Casey Casey on the case, yeah, because Sugar Ray Um

515
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 1: wasn't feeling it because you know, I mean obviously everyone

516
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 1: in the boxing community would have had massive, massive respect

517
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:31,439
Speaker 1: for Um, for Ali and would have you know, taken

518
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 1: heed Um if he was talking trash Uh, And soon

519
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:37,480
Speaker 1: everyone kind of lost faith in the machine. In nineteen

520
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:41,400
Speaker 1: seventy September nineteen seventy, the n c R three UM

521
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 1: This is the Next Model predicted that Joe Frazier would

522
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 1: lose to Bob Foster in a real fight, and no

523
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 1: one else was feeling that because Fraser Uh was outweighed

524
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 1: Foster by twenty one pounds UM and he was like

525
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:01,400
Speaker 1: totally in his prime. It was a wee aired wonky

526
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 1: kind of match up. And Uh, it was just a

527
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 1: total you know, ship show, as we like to say

528
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 1: this history. That's the thing about sports that's so exciting,

529
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 1: right is um It's not just a numbers game. If

530
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,639
Speaker 1: you could predict the outcome of any matchup by just

531
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 1: looking at the statistics beforehand, that would remove any magic

532
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:22,360
Speaker 1: from the scenario. Right, That's not why you watch a game.

533
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:23,879
Speaker 1: You watch a game because you're rooting for one of

534
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 1: the teams. But it's those come from behind, underdog victories,

535
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 1: the unexpected wins that make sports so exciting. And I

536
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 1: think Warner, you know, in all of his machinations and

537
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 1: his imaginings of using data to really drive this, he

538
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 1: forgot the human element and that pride is sort of

539
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 1: also what Ali carred with himself for so long, you know.

540
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 1: He in his he mentioned his autobiography before. One of

541
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 1: the things he wrote was about this fight. He said,

542
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 1: I saw myself on the ropes being destroyed by Marciano

543
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 1: in one of the quote artistic endings few actors could equal.

544
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 1: But some people thought it was real. Some sat stone still,

545
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 1: some boot and yelled, some cry. I felt like I

546
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 1: had disappointed millions all over the world. It left me

547
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 1: ashamed of what I've been doing. I've gone over the

548
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 1: country promoting the series as fair and accurate, especially the

549
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 1: Marciano Vie Ali show man that's heavy that also could

550
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 1: be him, you know, trying to paint the picture of

551
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 1: his situation so that his lawsuit had a absolutely no,

552
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 1: you're totally right. But well, I will say back to Warrener,

553
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 1: his sort of blindness to the thing, the magic, the

554
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 1: spark that actually makes these events special is so apparent

555
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 1: in that quote that we read earlier about how let's

556
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 1: like you know, Pitt Nietzsche versus Schopenhauer or whoever, like

557
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 1: all of these like human, you know, fallible individuals making cases,

558
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 1: you know, for their philosophies like from the heart, like

559
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 1: you can't assign a numeric value to that, or of

560
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 1: a loss or a win. And the fact that he

561
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 1: thought that showed that he was definitely high on his

562
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 1: own supply in terms of thinking that this was like

563
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 1: much more of a clever idea than it actually was.

564
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 1: But you know, this the super fight for as sort

565
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 1: of strange and tangential and not really um you know,

566
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 1: it wasn't the future of sports at the time, but

567
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:11,479
Speaker 1: you still see this today. And like football matchups, anytime

568
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 1: you're watching a game, the two announcers need something to

569
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 1: talk about because football is super boring and take so

570
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 1: long side note that they just end up talking about

571
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 1: stats of this player versus that player of this quarterback

572
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 1: versus that quarterback, of what they're expected to do versus

573
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 1: what they actually do. And uh, I feel like that's

574
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 1: half of sports commentary is just talking about the data

575
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 1: and it bores me to tears totally. And again, we're

576
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 1: in fantasy football season, are about to be We've got

577
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 1: a couple of new fantasy football shows launching here on

578
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 1: the network. Um, that is not a world that I

579
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 1: am familiar with, but at least that that does rely

580
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 1: on chance, and it does rely on kind of the

581
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 1: ability to like pick winners because you can interpret the stats. Uh,

582
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 1: and and then kind of roll the dice and see

583
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 1: what happens. Yeah, I mean those are podcasts I would listen. Yeah,

584
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 1: because the stats are fallible. I mean that's the point.

585
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 1: There is that human element and that ability to kind

586
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 1: of rise above you know, what the numbers say and

587
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 1: kind of give that final push into greatness or whatever.

588
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 1: And I think that's really interesting. Yeah. So if you're

589
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 1: listening and you're interested in this fight, you can seek

590
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:11,720
Speaker 1: it out. You can find a lot of it online.

591
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 1: But there was also in two thousand five, a DVD

592
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 1: of the fight came out, and it also included a

593
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 1: documentary about the radio fights. In the history behind this,

594
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 1: it's pretty interesting, but the legacy lived on in strange ways.

595
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 1: I mentioned this earlier in the two thousand three film

596
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 1: Rocky Balboa, which, uh, I don't know. Are you a

597
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 1: Rocky fan? How do you feel about right? I think

598
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 1: it's a classically good film, um, and I think even

599
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 1: like the newer ones from recent years are are pretty great. Yeah.

600
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 1: So I mean that's what I'm that's the one I'm

601
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 1: talking about. Rocky is I think one of the finest

602
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 1: American films of all time, and everyone should see it,

603
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 1: and everyone should see it many many times, and I

604
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 1: cry anytime I watch it, and I'm not ashamed to

605
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 1: admit that. But Rocky Balboa, which came out in the

606
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 1: two thousands, was the sixth film in that series, and

607
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 1: it's sort of book ended the career of this boxer,

608
00:31:56,280 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 1: semi fictionalized boxer that Sylvester Stallone created. So it's sent

609
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 1: thirty years after the initial fights in Rocky and Rocky

610
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 1: is working in a meat plant, you know, he has

611
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 1: his own kind of side gig. It kind of mirrors

612
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 1: what Rocky Marciana was going through at the time. So

613
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 1: in this two thousand six film Rocky Balboa. The impetus

614
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 1: for Rocky coming back into the ring for the Stallion

615
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 1: trying to reclaim his title, mixing some nicknames. There is

616
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 1: espn pits this aging boxer in his prime against Mason

617
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 1: the Line Dixon, a boxer who was unpopular, you know,

618
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 1: according to the film, but um you know, claimed that

619
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 1: he could have beaten Rocky Balboa. And so the super

620
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 1: fight actually inspired the two thousand six film Rocky Balboa.

621
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 1: Uh in sort of this really weird meditextual way in

622
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 1: which Rocky kind of relates to Rocky Marciano. There's obviously

623
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 1: parallels in the names and in the story about them

624
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 1: packing meat and kind of working in that industry on

625
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 1: the side, which I will also say, uh weird. Ari

626
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 1: Yankovic presaged in his in his terrific album in three

627
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 1: D from the eighties. You know what, I recently rewatched

628
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 1: that that totally held up. Uh UHF. I have dreams

629
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 1: of having a chat one day with our with our

630
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 1: colleague Chuck Bryant on Movie Crush about that show. Okay, great,

631
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 1: you totally should you know that we could make that

632
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 1: dream of reality. Dude, I'm on that show we got

633
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 1: to do that I would love. I would say for

634
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 1: UHF is probably the film I've seen more times than

635
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 1: any other except maybe Star Wars. Yeah, right on that.

636
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 1: That explains so much about your personality, Christopher. Uh. And

637
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 1: speaking of your personality, thank you so much for lending

638
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 1: it to us on this episode. This is a lot

639
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Speaker 1: of fun and it is always available for you. I

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Speaker 1: appreciate it. We love filling that Christopher Hasiota shaped hole

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Speaker 1: in the studio. Big thanks to super producer Casey Pegraham.

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Speaker 1: As always, thanks to Alex Williams, who composed our theme.

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Speaker 1: Thanks to Ben Bolland, co host and absentia away on Adventures.

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Speaker 1: Can't wait to have you back, buddies so we can

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Speaker 1: hear about your your exploits and whether or not you

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Speaker 1: made it out of Japan without getting kicked out against

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Speaker 1: your will. Big thanks to our research associates Gabe lues

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Speaker 1: Here and Ryan Barrish uh. And thanks to you folks

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Speaker 1: out there in podcast land. Uh. We'll see you next time. No,

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Speaker 1: I think this episode was a knockout. I think so too, Boom.

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Speaker 1: For more podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit the I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio app Apple podcast or wherever you listen to

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Speaker 1: your favorite shows,