WEBVTT - Fire Drill 046: Down the Middle with James Hahn 0:00:03.240 --> 0:00:06.520 I've heard people say, well, if you want a part 0:00:06.519 --> 0:00:09.520 of the hundred million dollars, just play better. Right, It's 0:00:09.640 --> 0:00:12.920 it's a meritocracy. Just play better, Just play better. It's 0:00:12.920 --> 0:00:16.680 funny that Patrick Cantley played the best out of any 0:00:16.720 --> 0:00:19.239 PGA Tour golfer the year that he won the FedEx Cup, 0:00:19.440 --> 0:00:22.880 won the super Bowl of Our of our Tour, and 0:00:22.960 --> 0:00:26.200 didn't get a dollar from the Pit program. And so 0:00:26.520 --> 0:00:31.200 what part of play better fixes that part? That portion 0:00:31.320 --> 0:00:33.839 of you know where that money is allocated towards or 0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:38.800 who it's allocated towards. I got thoughts in my head, 0:00:39.479 --> 0:00:45.720 can't get John nothing. Well, I'm thinking about thoughts in 0:00:45.920 --> 0:00:50.640 my head, can't get them out, and not to think well, 0:00:50.640 --> 0:01:01.400 I'm thinking about Hello. This is Alan Schipknuck back for 0:01:01.440 --> 0:01:05.080 another Fire Drill podcast. We have a very intriguing guest today, 0:01:05.120 --> 0:01:07.760 but before we get to him, a quick word of 0:01:07.800 --> 0:01:13.000 thanks to our sponsors, doing making these podcasts, doing journalism 0:01:13.000 --> 0:01:15.400 in general, takes to resources. Were very grateful for those 0:01:15.400 --> 0:01:18.360 who help us the fire Pit Collective keep the lights on, 0:01:18.480 --> 0:01:23.360 So thank you too. Part points the most interesting golf 0:01:23.360 --> 0:01:25.760 scoring app there is. You've heard us talk about it before. 0:01:26.400 --> 0:01:28.479 Just makes the game a little different, a little more fun, 0:01:29.120 --> 0:01:32.720 awesome for families, buddies, trips um or if you just 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:34.280 want to make you know, shake things up and make 0:01:34.280 --> 0:01:36.120 a little bit different, go to the app store and 0:01:36.200 --> 0:01:39.520 download part Points you will not regret it. And a 0:01:39.640 --> 0:01:43.920 Dormy Workshop. They make beautiful handcrafted leather goods. If you 0:01:43.959 --> 0:01:45.920 go to fire Pit Collective dot com and you click 0:01:45.959 --> 0:01:48.200 on the pitch shop that where we sell all our 0:01:48.440 --> 0:01:52.120 our logo and stuff, there's there's some really neat collaborations 0:01:52.160 --> 0:01:55.880 between us and Dormy, and check out Dormy's own website. 0:01:55.920 --> 0:01:58.559 They have all kinds of things that you might enjoy 0:01:58.560 --> 0:02:00.680 and will improve your life in some small way, So 0:02:01.360 --> 0:02:04.880 check it out now. To our guest today, PGA tour 0:02:05.440 --> 0:02:10.480 veteran James Hahn M James, thanks for doing this. Yeah, 0:02:10.480 --> 0:02:12.959 thanks for having me. We're gonna, you know, talk about 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:16.760 some interesting topics and looking forward to the fireworks. I 0:02:16.760 --> 0:02:20.320 think we're just gonna talk about cal golf. But okay, sure, yeah, 0:02:20.400 --> 0:02:24.320 sure talked me into it. Uh well, all right, so James, 0:02:24.800 --> 0:02:26.600 for most of your career, you've been known by your 0:02:26.639 --> 0:02:29.639 slightly quirky biography. You know, former shoe salesman, and then 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:32.639 you're known as a guy who's winning tournaments on big 0:02:32.680 --> 0:02:36.000 time courses Riviera and Quail Hollow. And you know, you've 0:02:36.040 --> 0:02:39.280 been out there a decade now and um, this year 0:02:39.320 --> 0:02:42.320 you've morphed into a unicorn. You are the rare PGA 0:02:42.400 --> 0:02:46.760 Tour player who's publicly supportive of Live and you've you 0:02:46.840 --> 0:02:51.720 staked out some some cutting edge positions on Twitter. So 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:56.600 walking me through this evolution, I mean, obviously these these um, 0:02:56.639 --> 0:02:58.920 the Premier Golf League and then the Saudi Golf League, 0:02:58.919 --> 0:03:00.839 then Live Golf. The stuff has been shocking around for 0:03:00.880 --> 0:03:04.040 a while and um, but very quickly people had to 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:06.440 choose sides. So at what point did you did you 0:03:06.480 --> 0:03:09.520 realize you wanted to try and be either a peacemaker 0:03:09.639 --> 0:03:11.840 or at least a voice of reason in the professional 0:03:11.880 --> 0:03:15.840 golf world. Yeah, that's a great question. So, um, you know, 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:18.080 I I do have a lot of friends that play 0:03:18.240 --> 0:03:19.760 on the Live Tour. I have a lot of friends 0:03:19.760 --> 0:03:21.560 that play on the PGA Tour. I have friends that 0:03:21.600 --> 0:03:25.320 are supportive of both. I have friends that you know, 0:03:25.560 --> 0:03:28.680 hate the Live Tour, and I have you know, friends 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:32.160 that love both tours. And so for me, um, how 0:03:32.200 --> 0:03:38.240 I got into. This was basically uh, you know the 0:03:38.680 --> 0:03:42.320 pot calling the kettle black or something along those lines. 0:03:42.360 --> 0:03:46.280 Is that it was so one sided, right that as 0:03:46.280 --> 0:03:48.720 soon as the lid came out and people were deflecting 0:03:48.760 --> 0:03:52.080 and going to the that tour, that we were throwing 0:03:52.120 --> 0:03:55.680 these guys under the bus. We were calling them names, um, 0:03:56.080 --> 0:04:01.480 just saying everything that we can't have people uh support 0:04:01.600 --> 0:04:05.000 their views of how they see the live tour, right. 0:04:05.080 --> 0:04:06.960 And so for us as a player, as a person 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:10.160 that's inside the bubble, you know, it was another player 0:04:10.600 --> 0:04:14.320 who decided to go to another tour for a better 0:04:14.360 --> 0:04:18.800 opportunity in their eyes financially, right, Um. And so you know, 0:04:18.839 --> 0:04:22.240 we can go through all the different narratives of you know, 0:04:22.720 --> 0:04:25.440 you know people saying, you know, if he, if so 0:04:25.520 --> 0:04:28.560 and so said that they were leaving for the money, 0:04:28.600 --> 0:04:30.920 I would respect him a lot more, you know, things 0:04:30.960 --> 0:04:34.280 like that and so, um. You know, and then for 0:04:34.320 --> 0:04:36.240 me as a as a player, like you know, I've 0:04:38.560 --> 0:04:42.120 more or less considered, you know, what my number would 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:45.000 be if I decided to to go to live or like, 0:04:45.040 --> 0:04:46.440 you know, everyone has a number, you know, we're in 0:04:46.480 --> 0:04:48.000 the locker room, it's like, well, what's your number, what's 0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:50.240 your number? You know everyone's got a number, right, and 0:04:50.320 --> 0:04:53.000 what's your number? Some people have a number so big 0:04:53.040 --> 0:05:00.760 that it's just unreasonable, right, umber, give us a number. 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:04.040 I can't. I can't tell you why number it's it's 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:07.160 you know, it's definitely in the millions, right, But um, 0:05:07.200 --> 0:05:10.960 for me, it's it's what am I giving up? Right? 0:05:11.000 --> 0:05:13.800 So I'm you know on that topic, you know, I 0:05:13.880 --> 0:05:16.600 would like to play the Champions Tour. I'd like to 0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:21.840 play further along in my career as long as I can. Um. 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:25.359 And so right now, it seems like you either have 0:05:25.440 --> 0:05:27.920 to pick one tour or the other. Um, I feel like, 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:31.360 you know, after the lawsuit next year, who knows what 0:05:31.360 --> 0:05:33.760 what can happen? You know, can someone play both tours? 0:05:33.920 --> 0:05:36.240 And so I'm sure we'll talk about that more in depth, 0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:39.600 uh the next time. I've always felt like that, And 0:05:39.680 --> 0:05:42.080 you know, I've been to a handful to live events 0:05:42.240 --> 0:05:44.480 and of course I've been too many PG Tour events. 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:47.520 And I feel like that's the player's dream, right is 0:05:47.560 --> 0:05:49.960 you could keep your your tour membership, you could play 0:05:50.000 --> 0:05:52.039 your favorite events, and you could cherry pick some of 0:05:52.040 --> 0:05:55.360 the live tournaments. UM like that, that is what everyone 0:05:55.400 --> 0:05:58.240 would would love to have, no matter what they say publicly, right, 0:05:58.360 --> 0:06:02.080 am I correct in that thinking absolutely. I mean it's 0:06:02.120 --> 0:06:05.839 so that that's another you know thing of um. You know, 0:06:05.920 --> 0:06:09.400 I'm glad you brought it up. Of uh. For example, 0:06:09.400 --> 0:06:12.119 Patrick Reid playing in all these events, and everyone's saying, 0:06:12.160 --> 0:06:14.279 you know, I thought they wanted to play less events. 0:06:14.320 --> 0:06:16.560 I thought they wanted to play less. You know, that 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:18.200 was one of the reasons to spend more time with 0:06:18.240 --> 0:06:20.760 the family. And you know, I understand that, but you 0:06:20.800 --> 0:06:24.880 could you know. The the other side of it is 0:06:26.080 --> 0:06:28.320 there's a lot of weeks throughout the year that we 0:06:28.400 --> 0:06:32.159 play golf and that we enjoy playing and we love competing, right, 0:06:32.200 --> 0:06:35.640 and so four teen tournaments to work only fourteen weeks 0:06:35.640 --> 0:06:38.760 out of the year, I feel like might not be enough. 0:06:38.880 --> 0:06:40.480 You know. Some of these guys love to compete and 0:06:40.520 --> 0:06:45.280 they missed the competition. Um. But to be obligated to play, 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:48.440 you know, thirty events a year, you know, if you're 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:50.880 trying to play both tours, um, I feel like it 0:06:50.960 --> 0:06:54.359 is unreasonable. And so um, you know, everyone's saying, you know, 0:06:54.400 --> 0:06:57.240 play less golf tournaments and yeah, you know, we average 0:06:57.320 --> 0:07:02.560 like tournaments. Yeah, I'm fourteen tournaments is less than twenty five. 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:05.440 But guess what, so is fifteen? So it's sixteen, so 0:07:05.640 --> 0:07:07.960 seventeen you know, so it's like every one of these 0:07:08.000 --> 0:07:11.320 tournaments that they add is still under the average that 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:13.680 they would have had in the past few years and 0:07:13.720 --> 0:07:17.800 the years going going forward. Yeah. Well, and I mean 0:07:17.840 --> 0:07:20.320 Live has been very clear to say if you if 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:21.920 you join us, you have to play all our tournaments, 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:23.280 but we don't care what you do in the other weeks. 0:07:23.400 --> 0:07:25.160 You can play anywhere you want. I mean, they're they're 0:07:25.200 --> 0:07:27.160 trying to make it clear that their players have that 0:07:27.240 --> 0:07:29.320 freedom to go to the European Tour, go to the 0:07:29.320 --> 0:07:32.200 pg Tour, whatever they can fin angle. So yeah, I 0:07:32.200 --> 0:07:35.720 mean even even tiger Jack and their prime when they 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:39.640 played limited schedules to try and be competitively hungry, I 0:07:39.680 --> 0:07:42.880 mean they were playing seventeen, eighteen, nine, fourteen is that's 0:07:42.880 --> 0:07:45.280 probably not enough to really be sharp, so I think, 0:07:45.280 --> 0:07:49.160 and it's it's also very ironic that you know, uh, 0:07:49.200 --> 0:07:51.360 we're calling out to Live players and well now they're 0:07:51.800 --> 0:07:54.720 you know, employees, they have to play these fourteen events. 0:07:54.720 --> 0:07:58.040 Well guess what the PGA Tour rolled out here? Uh, 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:01.200 I think it goes into effect the season is that 0:08:01.280 --> 0:08:05.600 in order for someone to um be eligible for the 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:08.600 pit money is that they are obligated to play in 0:08:08.840 --> 0:08:13.440 twenty events this season, right, which includes the majors, the playoffs, 0:08:14.280 --> 0:08:17.840 elevated events. And so it's almost like the PGA Tour saying, oh, 0:08:17.880 --> 0:08:20.320 fourteen events, will will one up yea, and we'll go 0:08:20.680 --> 0:08:24.000 twenty events. And so to me, it's like, you know, 0:08:24.120 --> 0:08:28.280 it's very hypocritical for us to call out live players 0:08:28.320 --> 0:08:32.000 for doing this when now we are almost doing the 0:08:32.040 --> 0:08:34.800 exact same thing. And so that's where I feel like 0:08:34.840 --> 0:08:37.240 the narrative is kind of shifted. It's like, well, you know, 0:08:37.440 --> 0:08:40.240 before Rory was saying, um, you know about the world 0:08:40.320 --> 0:08:42.280 ranking points. You know, if they decided to leave, so 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:44.560 they shouldn't get any world ranking points, this and that 0:08:44.720 --> 0:08:48.760 he's so one sided, and then two months later he's saying, well, 0:08:48.800 --> 0:08:52.760 if Dustin Johnson's ranked over one in the world, then 0:08:52.760 --> 0:08:54.720 it's not a true reflection of how good of a 0:08:54.760 --> 0:08:58.800 golfer he is, and therefore the world ranking system is 0:08:58.840 --> 0:09:03.120 not fair. Yeah, I'm curious how much blowback have you 0:09:03.160 --> 0:09:06.720 gotten from your colleagues or even some of the minders 0:09:06.720 --> 0:09:09.080 and Pontovidra Beach for for your public statements that are 0:09:09.080 --> 0:09:14.800 supportive of Live. Yeah, the people that get paychecks from 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:19.040 the PGA Tour Partovidra for the most part, you know, 0:09:19.120 --> 0:09:22.760 they understand that I have a voice, that I have 0:09:23.520 --> 0:09:26.400 my own views that they might not necessarily agree on, 0:09:26.600 --> 0:09:29.520 and it's uh, you know, they're very respectful of it. 0:09:29.679 --> 0:09:32.840 You know, they listen, but they also questioned, like, well, 0:09:32.880 --> 0:09:34.560 you know, what are some of the things that we 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:37.920 can do differently to better the PGA tour, right, And 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:40.280 so now they're rolling out with all these things incentives 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:42.719 for us to play on PGA Tour um as far 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:48.520 as players, caddies, club reps, fans. I can't tell you 0:09:48.520 --> 0:09:51.000 how many people in person have come up to me 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:54.240 and said, you know, thank you for finally saying what 0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:57.640 people want to say but they might not necessarily have 0:09:57.720 --> 0:10:00.920 the platform or have the courage to say, because there 0:10:01.040 --> 0:10:04.160 is a lot of backlash for that. I'm getting just 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:10.280 for not really being in supportive Live but not against Live. Right. 0:10:10.320 --> 0:10:12.959 It's almost like, if you're not against Live, then your 0:10:13.040 --> 0:10:15.439 four live, and if your four lived, that means you're 0:10:15.440 --> 0:10:17.880 against the PGA Tour. It's like connecting the dots, right 0:10:17.920 --> 0:10:22.319 and so uh, it's it's so it's gotten so political 0:10:22.480 --> 0:10:24.680 at this point that you either have to pick a 0:10:24.720 --> 0:10:27.800 side between left and right, and if you're in the middle, 0:10:27.920 --> 0:10:32.520 then you're wrong altogether. Right. Um. So I feel like, 0:10:33.040 --> 0:10:35.000 you know, I'd hate for us to live in a 0:10:35.040 --> 0:10:38.600 world where we're so divided between Live and PGA Tour, 0:10:38.720 --> 0:10:42.240 and it just ruins the game because it's ruining politics, 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:45.400 it's ruining families, it's ruined friendships. Um. I'd like to 0:10:45.400 --> 0:10:49.160 see a world where they possibly you know, get together 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:52.400 and co exist. But I feel like the anti Live 0:10:53.200 --> 0:10:58.559 fans and golfers are against that idea. Yes, well you're 0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:02.360 an idealist, James Irish, but it's hard, hard, it's hard 0:11:02.400 --> 0:11:05.079 to maintain that innocence. Uh. But at the same time, 0:11:05.280 --> 0:11:08.360 this podcast is really an outgrowth of, you know, of 0:11:08.400 --> 0:11:10.920 some Twitter exchanges we had in the last few days, 0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:13.880 and you did brand me anti Live, which I don't 0:11:13.880 --> 0:11:16.360 think it's quite accurate. You know, I've tried to be 0:11:16.520 --> 0:11:20.880 very much down the middle, and whenever I get I 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:22.880 get it from both sides. You're a pg tors schill 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:25.640 or you're a Live hater like I kind of it's 0:11:25.640 --> 0:11:29.480 almost fifty fifty. I think people calling me, um, you know, 0:11:29.600 --> 0:11:31.480 calling me out on both sides, which I think tells 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:35.120 me I'm probably doing my job somewhat of you know. 0:11:35.160 --> 0:11:36.920 I mean, like the folks that live golf have told 0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:39.040 me to my face, like thank you for your coverage. 0:11:39.040 --> 0:11:41.319 You know, we appreciate you have an open mind and 0:11:41.640 --> 0:11:43.760 being fair. So I'm like, jeez, maybe I'm being too 0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:47.600 soft on them, but yeah, so, but you're right if 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:49.640 if you if you try and play it down the middle, 0:11:50.120 --> 0:11:52.520 then everyone's mad at you. It's almost easier to just 0:11:52.920 --> 0:11:56.040 stick pick aside and stand on the tops and shout, 0:11:56.160 --> 0:11:58.360 which is what a lot of obviously other people in 0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:00.400 the golf media are doing. But I'm trying to avoid 0:12:00.440 --> 0:12:03.400 that and bring a little subtlety to the conversation. But 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:06.640 it can get lost, and I would and I do 0:12:06.720 --> 0:12:09.679 respect that you do play down the middle. You're getting 0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:11.800 it from both sides, which pretty much means that you're 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:15.920 doing it the right way. I mean, I remember, you know, 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:18.800 even a few months back that you know, even talking 0:12:18.800 --> 0:12:22.520 about live or promoting live, or even showing anything good 0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:26.320 about live was a no no, right like it was 0:12:26.760 --> 0:12:29.560 you know, the PGA Tour and only the PGA Tour. 0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:31.560 And if you talk about the live tour in a 0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:33.560 in a good way, then you're against us. You're not 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:36.320 You're not in the boys club, right, And so how 0:12:36.400 --> 0:12:40.199 things have changed is like when brooks Keptka just won 0:12:40.280 --> 0:12:44.280 this last week. You know, you see journalists and reporters congratulating, 0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:47.640 books kept going on another win on you know, uh, 0:12:47.640 --> 0:12:51.360 you know is winless, drought and all this stuff. You know, 0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:58.440 it's the it's changing to where, um, it's normalizing the 0:12:58.520 --> 0:13:02.920 live tour in the golf ecosystem. And so before it, 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:05.760 you know, I'd like to compare things. I like a 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:09.280 lot of like analogies and stuff, but it's almost like um, 0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:12.920 Tesla when they first came out, Right when Tesla first 0:13:12.920 --> 0:13:15.120 came out, everyone's like, oh, they're not gonna you know, 0:13:15.160 --> 0:13:17.360 they're they're not gonna be successful. Even three or four 0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:19.880 I remember having a conversation with my financial advisor. I said, Hey, 0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:21.760 what do you think about adding Tesla to my portfolio? 0:13:22.000 --> 0:13:23.599 And he's like, Oh, they're gonna go under in the 0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:26.360 next few years. I would would never recommend investing in 0:13:26.400 --> 0:13:29.400 Tesla and this and that. Now it's normal to where 0:13:29.760 --> 0:13:31.880 it's kind of cool to have a tesla like, let's 0:13:31.880 --> 0:13:36.040 be honest, right, um, And so I feel like we're 0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:39.120 kind of in the beginning stages of that where you know, 0:13:39.240 --> 0:13:43.600 live golf it's live versus PGA Tour. But to three 0:13:43.840 --> 0:13:46.240 five years down the road, we could actually be an 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:48.720 environment where you know, it's kind of cool to watch 0:13:48.760 --> 0:13:52.400 both on TV well, so that the critics would of 0:13:52.720 --> 0:13:55.520 Live golf with saying that normalizing is the problem, that 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:58.800 that is the entire reason that this exists, is you know, 0:13:58.840 --> 0:14:01.720 Saturday being government trying to normalize its relationships with the 0:14:01.760 --> 0:14:05.120 Western world, and that is the ultimate goal of sports washing. 0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:08.120 And so you know, people have I get this a lot. 0:14:08.200 --> 0:14:09.960 You know, you shouldn't even report on it, You shouldn't 0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:13.400 even talk about it because you're normalizing it. And it's 0:14:13.400 --> 0:14:16.880 a valid critique given you know, who's providing the money. 0:14:17.679 --> 0:14:19.200 You know. My rebuttal is it's just one of the 0:14:19.200 --> 0:14:23.600 biggest stories in golf this century. And in my position, 0:14:23.760 --> 0:14:26.440 I can't ignore it. There's just too much at stake 0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:29.720 here for the game, and um, it's just too big 0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:33.800 a story. But um, you know that what is what 0:14:33.960 --> 0:14:36.720 is what would be your abuttle to that that even 0:14:36.760 --> 0:14:39.120 by talking about live and saying, you know, I think 0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:41.440 it has some merit that that you're serving as an 0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:45.440 agent of propaganda for Saudi Arabia. That's a great question. 0:14:45.520 --> 0:14:48.240 That's something that I've been thinking about and I kind 0:14:48.240 --> 0:14:51.960 of knew you were gonna ask the question. Um, it's 0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:53.760 it is a big issue. You know, I'm not going 0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:57.520 to deny it. You know, the human rights UM problems 0:14:57.560 --> 0:15:02.400 that they have in Saudi Arabia, if there is any 0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:09.840 chance that the the government, you know, the people that 0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:14.440 are UM, the Saudi Golf Fund right that is sponsoring 0:15:14.480 --> 0:15:17.040 the lift or putting money into the lift UM, if 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:21.720 that has any influence on how they proceed as a 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:25.520 country and make changes, change being able to change their 0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:31.240 human Rights UM regulations in their country, if that has 0:15:31.320 --> 0:15:36.440 any positive influence for their country, on whether or not. 0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:38.920 You know, they've invested billions of dollars into this live 0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:42.760 golf and you know, if if something bad happens, you know, 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:45.080 I'm sure the first thing that goes through their own 0:15:45.080 --> 0:15:46.960 mind is not thinking like, oh, you know, I wonder 0:15:47.000 --> 0:15:49.320 how the our live golf fans are going to handle this, 0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:51.200 are going to take this? You know, we need to 0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:53.160 make a really good decision here because we can't lose 0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:57.200 our fan base. But if there's any like of even 0:15:57.240 --> 0:16:02.160 a one percent of them even considering that, then could 0:16:02.200 --> 0:16:05.960 you say that live golf may or may not have 0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:10.680 a positive influence on the human rights in Saudi Arabia? 0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:12.400 Does that make any sense? I have a hard time 0:16:12.440 --> 0:16:14.680 with my words, but if yeah, you know it does. 0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:18.280 I mean from from the standpoint the people who say, 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:21.840 well this, uh, you know live, What if if MBS 0:16:21.920 --> 0:16:23.680 wakes up tomorrow he doesn't want to waste more money 0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:26.320 on golf and Live will just blow away like tumbleweed? 0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:29.760 And my rebuttal is that so? I've you know, the 0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:32.320 guys who run the public investment funds at Arabia are 0:16:32.960 --> 0:16:35.000 probably the most powerful people on the planet who are 0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:38.400 not heads of state. And their top two guys have 0:16:38.480 --> 0:16:42.800 been at every live event. It's his excellency Yasir al 0:16:42.920 --> 0:16:45.640 Ramayan and then his deputy, this guy named Magic. And 0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:48.000 they play in the pro ams and they zip around 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:49.120 in their cart and they'll play a couple of holes 0:16:49.160 --> 0:16:50.720 of dust, and they'll play a couple holes of phil, 0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:52.360 a couple holes of brights, and like they're having the 0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:54.680 greatest time of their life. And they're on the first 0:16:54.720 --> 0:16:58.400 team and they're tapping up the players and you can 0:16:58.440 --> 0:17:01.080 see the joy this has brought UM to be in 0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:05.000 this this inner circle and to get this acceptance UM. 0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:08.360 And who knows what quiet conversations are happening, whether it's 0:17:08.400 --> 0:17:11.160 with former President Trump or it's just captains of industry 0:17:11.200 --> 0:17:13.400 who come out and play in the pro am. And 0:17:13.440 --> 0:17:16.600 so they have bought access to the Western world in 0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:20.000 a way that they've always craved. And it's hard to 0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:22.640 put a price tag on that, but it has tremendous value. 0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:26.600 And on interpersonal level, you know, every Tuesday night at 0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:30.640 the tournaments, they host a party um you know UH, 0:17:30.800 --> 0:17:33.840 and the players come and they're drinking two thousand UM 0:17:34.240 --> 0:17:36.760 Bordeaus and they're having a great time. And these guys 0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:39.520 are the center of it all. And so now as 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:43.000 they go out into the world as these representatives of 0:17:43.000 --> 0:17:45.399 the Saud Arabian government like, they have been exposed to 0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:50.600 a lot of UH culture in the United States, in England, 0:17:50.640 --> 0:17:52.920 at the Centurion Club, wherever they've they've gone, and they've 0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:55.440 been the toast of the town. And so I think 0:17:55.600 --> 0:17:58.240 in that regard, those two men who run the p 0:17:58.359 --> 0:18:02.480 IF could have, I could see where lives affected. They're thinking, 0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:04.440 and they don't want this party to end. They don't 0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:06.920 want they don't want the Public Investment Fund or the 0:18:07.000 --> 0:18:08.600 government to do something so bad that all of a 0:18:08.600 --> 0:18:10.600 sudden they're so toxic. They can't be on the first 0:18:10.600 --> 0:18:13.320 tea anymore, and they can't play with Trump at at 0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:14.960 bad Minister, and they can't do all these things that 0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:18.520 they're they're enjoying. And so um, again, these guys hold 0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:21.880 all the cards of global finances and so to see 0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:24.520 how much joy live golf has brought them. Um, I 0:18:24.560 --> 0:18:26.520 really think that what you're saying there there is some 0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:30.159 mer they're just on interpersonal level now, Um, you know, 0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:34.400 I don't. Also, I also feel like it goes both ways, right, 0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:38.120 And so not only have they bought into our Western 0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:41.480 world in our way of thinking, but we've also infiltrated 0:18:41.840 --> 0:18:45.600 you know, their inner circle, right, Michaelson has an opportunity 0:18:45.680 --> 0:18:49.520 to talk to his excellency on a weekly basis if 0:18:49.560 --> 0:18:52.119 you wanted to on a daily basis, right, Like we've 0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:57.280 we've gone into you know, their men's club, right, And 0:18:57.320 --> 0:19:01.439 so um for me, I'm I'm forty one years old. Uh, 0:19:01.840 --> 0:19:04.400 And I grew up listening to a lot of hip 0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:06.480 hop and rap growing up, right, and so one of 0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:11.080 the things that I still remember to this day was, Uh, 0:19:11.480 --> 0:19:14.560 there was a clip of Tupop Tupac. He's a rapper 0:19:14.600 --> 0:19:15.920 back in the days. A lot of the young kids 0:19:15.920 --> 0:19:19.640 won't remember him, but this dude was like everybody knows. 0:19:20.720 --> 0:19:22.680 I don't know. I mean the younger kids these days, 0:19:22.760 --> 0:19:25.320 you know, they still play it on the radio. But um, 0:19:25.440 --> 0:19:27.520 he was like way before his time. But anyways, they 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:30.879 asked him. I believe it was when uh, you know, 0:19:30.920 --> 0:19:33.200 Bush Senior was in office and they had asked him, 0:19:33.200 --> 0:19:36.520 you know, if Bush invited you to the White House, 0:19:36.720 --> 0:19:40.920 would you go? Right? And in the past few years, uh, 0:19:40.960 --> 0:19:43.080 you know, in the Trump era that you know, a 0:19:43.080 --> 0:19:46.080 lot of athletes were asked to go to the White House, 0:19:46.200 --> 0:19:48.439 and as you know that all of them decided not 0:19:48.520 --> 0:19:51.040 to go to the White House. You know. And for me, 0:19:51.480 --> 0:19:53.920 you know, I always go back to this Tupac quote. 0:19:54.000 --> 0:19:56.280 He goes, why wouldn't I go to the go to 0:19:56.320 --> 0:19:58.679 the White House? He goes, I have an opportunity to 0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:00.439 talk to the man in charts, to talk to the 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:03.520 president and tell him the problems of the inner city 0:20:03.560 --> 0:20:06.240 and all the problems that I have, Um, that are 0:20:06.400 --> 0:20:08.480 you know in this world that he has an opportunity 0:20:08.520 --> 0:20:10.760 to change. He's well, so why wouldn't I want a 0:20:10.800 --> 0:20:14.040 one on one conversation with the man? Right? And so 0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:17.680 for our athletes to turn down the opportunity to talk 0:20:17.680 --> 0:20:21.280 to Trump and you know, not to get political, um, 0:20:21.320 --> 0:20:25.720 but if there's even an opportunity to have him think 0:20:25.840 --> 0:20:27.919 about some of the things that he's doing and some 0:20:27.960 --> 0:20:29.800 of the things that he will do in the future, 0:20:30.080 --> 0:20:32.360 I feel like goes the same way with his excellency 0:20:32.640 --> 0:20:36.520 in Saudi Arabia. We have an opportunity to you know, 0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:39.679 possibly help him make the right decisions going forward. You know, 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:42.360 it's like the movie Inception, Like we're in it right now, 0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:43.760 you know, in a dream and a dream and a 0:20:43.840 --> 0:20:46.520 dream and like we're in it and we're so close. 0:20:46.560 --> 0:20:50.000 I mean, how awesome would it be if ten years 0:20:50.040 --> 0:20:54.159 from now, right, the human rights gets better? And you know, 0:20:54.240 --> 0:20:57.800 and this this is me just you know, being very optimists. 0:20:57.920 --> 0:21:01.159 Right ten years from now the human I was getting better, Um, 0:21:02.240 --> 0:21:06.760 just from on a scale between like um, you know, 0:21:07.040 --> 0:21:11.800 women's rights to uh just everything you know, I don't 0:21:11.800 --> 0:21:15.720 want to name too many, too many things, but um, 0:21:15.760 --> 0:21:18.320 and for them to change, and then asking him ten 0:21:18.400 --> 0:21:20.440 years from now saying you know what changed your mind 0:21:20.520 --> 0:21:23.200 and him saying possibly. You know, I had to played 0:21:23.200 --> 0:21:26.840 a golf round with Dustin Johnson and he bothered by it, 0:21:26.960 --> 0:21:28.720 and you know, I feel like I needed to do 0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:30.399 something like that would be pretty cool. Al Right. I 0:21:30.440 --> 0:21:32.640 don't know if that's going to happen, but the fact 0:21:32.720 --> 0:21:34.960 that there's even an opportunity for that to happen, I 0:21:34.960 --> 0:21:40.280 feel like, you know, there's a good I think, you know, 0:21:40.359 --> 0:21:44.480 the risk outways reward. I mean, what are your thoughts? Yeah, 0:21:44.520 --> 0:21:47.639 I mean it's funny to imagine Phil Nicholson setting the 0:21:47.720 --> 0:21:51.840 global financial markets during the pro am at auring the 0:21:51.880 --> 0:21:55.159 ear of his excellency, but Ian I wouldn't put it 0:21:55.200 --> 0:21:58.920 past Phil for sure. And yeah, I mean again it's 0:21:59.760 --> 0:22:01.960 it's a very philosophical question. I mean, could sport be 0:22:02.000 --> 0:22:05.439 an agent of change? I think most people would say yes, um, 0:22:05.480 --> 0:22:08.879 And uh, you know I did. I did a big 0:22:08.960 --> 0:22:12.760 story on Messiage Eerie. He was the GM for the 0:22:12.960 --> 0:22:16.679 still Is of the Raptors, and you know, he founded 0:22:16.720 --> 0:22:19.800 this thing called Giants of Africa and it was he's 0:22:19.840 --> 0:22:22.160 he's brought hundreds and hundreds of kids over to play 0:22:22.160 --> 0:22:25.800 a college basketball from from the continent of Africa, and 0:22:25.840 --> 0:22:27.320 some of them have gone on play pro ball, many 0:22:27.359 --> 0:22:30.840 of have gotten into executive positions and done great things 0:22:30.880 --> 0:22:32.679 in their lives have nothing to do with with basketball. 0:22:32.760 --> 0:22:36.639 And you know that that's that's he's one NBA title 0:22:36.960 --> 0:22:40.040 as a GM, but that that organization means more to 0:22:40.119 --> 0:22:42.760 him than anything, and it really has affected the trickled 0:22:42.760 --> 0:22:44.760 out effect from how all these these kids lives of 0:22:44.840 --> 0:22:46.560 change and what it's done for their families when it's 0:22:46.560 --> 0:22:48.960 done for their own kids, and it's very powerful. And 0:22:48.960 --> 0:22:51.280 of course there's many other examples, whether it's youth on 0:22:51.400 --> 0:22:54.120 coorus or it's the first tea. I mean, I think 0:22:54.240 --> 0:22:56.199 I think generally we accept that sports can be an 0:22:56.200 --> 0:22:59.520 agent of change. So, um, the question is it's kind 0:22:59.560 --> 0:23:02.439 of place like how to your radio evolved through sport? 0:23:02.480 --> 0:23:04.439 I mean, it's an unknown and I think you have 0:23:04.440 --> 0:23:06.760 to be a little bit of a dreamer too at 0:23:06.600 --> 0:23:08.880 the current moment, but it's you just have to chip 0:23:08.880 --> 0:23:11.040 away with these things. So maybe the answers yes, and 0:23:11.119 --> 0:23:16.000 maybe live golf plays role, and um, but the you 0:23:16.040 --> 0:23:18.840 know that that is that is a hotly contested idea 0:23:19.000 --> 0:23:22.879 in this context, but I you know Tupac is right 0:23:22.920 --> 0:23:24.320 on some level. You got to go talk to the 0:23:24.320 --> 0:23:28.440 man and hear what he has to say. This side note, 0:23:28.480 --> 0:23:30.840 I was the first guy on the Sleeves High basketball 0:23:30.880 --> 0:23:35.240 team to discover n w A. Yes, no, hip hop 0:23:35.240 --> 0:23:40.840 has always been But to me, those guys were incredible journalists. 0:23:41.400 --> 0:23:45.720 Like when they when they taught listeners everywhere about about 0:23:45.720 --> 0:23:49.359 real life was powerful and so um, you know, there's 0:23:49.400 --> 0:23:54.480 there's interacting the different cultures and and seeing the world 0:23:54.560 --> 0:23:58.480 is a powerful tool. And uh so whether it's music 0:23:58.840 --> 0:24:01.560 is also like I don't see it going if you 0:24:01.600 --> 0:24:03.480 were if you were played Devil's advocate. I don't see 0:24:03.520 --> 0:24:05.240 it going the other way, you know, I don't see 0:24:06.640 --> 0:24:09.440 his excellency having a conversation with Phil all of a 0:24:09.480 --> 0:24:11.680 sudden being so piste off it. He's going to raise 0:24:11.720 --> 0:24:14.679 gas prices and you know, do what he's doing in 0:24:14.680 --> 0:24:18.600 his country ten tenfold, right, and so um, you know, 0:24:19.560 --> 0:24:22.320 I see it from both both directions. One of the 0:24:22.359 --> 0:24:26.800 things that I was also thinking about is when people 0:24:26.840 --> 0:24:32.480 criticize the players who are suing the PGA tour, right 0:24:32.640 --> 0:24:34.919 and so you know, there's a narrative of you know, 0:24:35.119 --> 0:24:37.679 I would be okay if they just didn't sue the 0:24:37.680 --> 0:24:43.480 PGA Tour. Uh. The my response to that is, they're 0:24:43.520 --> 0:24:46.600 not suing the tour for monetary damages. They're not suing 0:24:46.600 --> 0:24:49.000 them for millions and millions of dollars. They're just doing 0:24:49.040 --> 0:24:54.159 them for the right to play golf. And so my 0:24:54.240 --> 0:25:01.359 rebuttal to that is, you know, we were allowing football players. 0:25:01.440 --> 0:25:05.320 Tony Romo played in in one of the events. You know, 0:25:05.600 --> 0:25:08.359 Jerry Rice played in a professional event. Um, we had 0:25:08.960 --> 0:25:11.560 a retired tennis player, Marty Fish just playing the three 0:25:11.680 --> 0:25:13.880 M Open here a few months back. And so we're 0:25:13.920 --> 0:25:19.160 allowing non golfers, right, non professional golfers to compete in 0:25:19.240 --> 0:25:22.679 a professional golf event, taken away a spot from you know, 0:25:22.720 --> 0:25:25.800 someone who could be eligible or would be willing, h 0:25:26.359 --> 0:25:31.280 more deserving of that spot. But yet we won't invite 0:25:31.359 --> 0:25:35.040 Dustin Johnson or Brooks Kepco or Bryson de Shambo into 0:25:35.040 --> 0:25:38.120 a golf tournament where you can't invite Kevin nah who's 0:25:38.119 --> 0:25:40.720 a two time past champion of the Shriners Hospital Open, 0:25:40.760 --> 0:25:44.000 And um, they're just fighting for their right to be 0:25:44.080 --> 0:25:48.640 invited into a golf tournament and so um, we'll find 0:25:48.640 --> 0:25:52.360 out later or early next year of how that pans out, 0:25:52.400 --> 0:25:55.840 and so um. You know that's just the big one 0:25:55.840 --> 0:25:59.080 of the big topics as well of kind of where 0:25:59.119 --> 0:26:04.239 we are right out involves Yeah, I mean the the 0:26:04.280 --> 0:26:08.720 battle between not only the tours but also players within 0:26:08.760 --> 0:26:10.879 the system. Like let me read a quote that you had, 0:26:11.119 --> 0:26:13.000 um that I thought was really interesting and I want 0:26:13.000 --> 0:26:15.199 to get into this. He said, the secret meeting with 0:26:15.240 --> 0:26:17.280 Tiger and Rory set a president that the top twenty 0:26:17.320 --> 0:26:19.719 players can get whoever they want from the tour, get 0:26:19.760 --> 0:26:22.240 whatever they want from the tour. So what's topping the 0:26:22.240 --> 0:26:25.399 other of our tour from getting together and doing the 0:26:25.440 --> 0:26:27.440 same exact thing as Rory and Tiger and saying the 0:26:27.440 --> 0:26:29.119 top twin players can go play there on tournaments, but 0:26:29.160 --> 0:26:31.639 the rest of the tour us stand together and we 0:26:31.640 --> 0:26:33.960 want more benefits. I feel like a portion of a 0:26:34.000 --> 0:26:36.000 hundred million dollars could have gone to making the tour 0:26:36.520 --> 0:26:39.560 great rather than going the top twenty these little things 0:26:39.680 --> 0:26:41.880 that irritate the rest of the membership to the point 0:26:41.880 --> 0:26:44.119 there's a lot of animosity between the halves and the 0:26:44.200 --> 0:26:46.520 have not. I would call it the haves and the 0:26:46.600 --> 0:26:50.359 have mores. But then if I had to redo that Stamon, 0:26:50.440 --> 0:26:53.840 that's the one thing I people are clearly, you know, 0:26:54.119 --> 0:26:56.160 it's and when you're doing an interview, just stuff comes 0:26:56.160 --> 0:26:58.760 out of your you know, and I should have said 0:26:58.840 --> 0:27:01.720 haves and have more. But but the larger point is 0:27:02.680 --> 0:27:05.399 true that the PGA Tour has now created this cast 0:27:05.440 --> 0:27:09.080 system where the top twenty guys or maybe a few more, 0:27:09.119 --> 0:27:12.440 but the elite have access to incredible abounts of money 0:27:12.720 --> 0:27:15.000 and everyone else is getting some benefit. But even the 0:27:15.040 --> 0:27:18.560 half million dollars, you have to play really bad at 0:27:19.040 --> 0:27:20.920 not to make a half million dollars and earnings. Even 0:27:21.160 --> 0:27:23.240 even a crappy year, you're gonna scrape it around and 0:27:23.520 --> 0:27:26.280 make something close to that. So that's not really free money. 0:27:26.280 --> 0:27:29.080 That's just an advance. And it's helpful for sure, especially 0:27:29.160 --> 0:27:31.320 for young players are struggling guys. You can you can 0:27:31.359 --> 0:27:33.919 pay your coach and you can like it has benefit, 0:27:33.960 --> 0:27:36.760 there's no question, but it's not really free money. Like 0:27:36.800 --> 0:27:42.879 the half million dollars isn't isn't a half million dollars net? 0:27:43.000 --> 0:27:45.400 You know what I mean. It's like we have two 0:27:45.440 --> 0:27:47.880 hundred fifty dollars worth of expenses, and then we're also 0:27:47.920 --> 0:27:50.640 having big taxes on that. So it's like all said 0:27:50.680 --> 0:27:54.960 and done, some of the guys are making just over 0:27:55.000 --> 0:27:57.560 a hundred hundred fifty thousand dollars if you're making up 0:27:57.840 --> 0:28:04.159 five dollars tour, So that that also stem from a 0:28:04.200 --> 0:28:10.520 little bit of um frustration, I guess from the things 0:28:10.640 --> 0:28:14.480 behind the scenes that fans and reporters are not aware of. 0:28:14.600 --> 0:28:18.560 So I'll give you an example. Um, in NAPA this 0:28:18.640 --> 0:28:21.760 year as well as the Sanders and Farms golf tournament, 0:28:21.840 --> 0:28:24.840 we have to pay for our own rental car for 0:28:24.880 --> 0:28:30.560 the week, right, and so two tournaments that are non elite, right. 0:28:30.760 --> 0:28:34.399 I don't ever remember going to a player's championship, a 0:28:34.480 --> 0:28:37.320 bay Hill even Tigers tournament and having to rent my 0:28:37.359 --> 0:28:40.640 own car, right, And it's for me is that they've 0:28:40.640 --> 0:28:44.240 set they've set a standard on the PGA tour. You know, 0:28:44.320 --> 0:28:46.880 when you fly in, we're gonna have transportation ready for you, 0:28:46.920 --> 0:28:49.520 will have a courtesy car, whether it's you know, a 0:28:49.560 --> 0:28:53.760 BMW Lex's Cadillac or even sometimes where they do rent 0:28:53.800 --> 0:28:56.480 cars for us, but they pay for it and they 0:28:56.520 --> 0:29:02.400 have it waiting for us outside. It's very union for us, right, um. 0:29:02.480 --> 0:29:05.320 And so to have a standard on the PGA Tour 0:29:06.120 --> 0:29:09.240 and to be and have that standard taken away from you, 0:29:09.920 --> 0:29:13.120 I feel like it's a blow to the tour. But 0:29:13.200 --> 0:29:16.240 to also question why, you know, and it's it's a 0:29:16.520 --> 0:29:18.560 it's a question about you know, who's paying it. You know, 0:29:18.600 --> 0:29:21.800 where's the money coming from? You? We can't afford the sponsor, 0:29:21.840 --> 0:29:24.440 can't afford the term, and can't afford having courtesy cars. 0:29:25.240 --> 0:29:27.640 But then seeing a big chunk of money, a hundred 0:29:27.640 --> 0:29:30.600 million dollars going to the top twin golfers in you know, 0:29:30.640 --> 0:29:33.840 on our tour as far as popularity, right, I mean, 0:29:34.040 --> 0:29:37.280 I always bring it back to um when you know, 0:29:37.760 --> 0:29:41.000 I've heard people say, well, if you want a part 0:29:41.040 --> 0:29:44.040 of the hundred million dollars, just play better. Right. It's 0:29:44.160 --> 0:29:47.440 it's a meritocracy. Just play better, Just play better. It's 0:29:47.440 --> 0:29:51.200 funny that Patrick Cantlay played the best out of any 0:29:51.240 --> 0:29:53.760 PGA Tour golfer the year that he won the FedEx Cup, 0:29:53.960 --> 0:29:57.400 won the Super Bowl of Our of our tour and 0:29:57.480 --> 0:30:00.720 didn't get a dollar from the pit program. And so 0:30:01.040 --> 0:30:05.720 what part of play better fixes that part that portion 0:30:05.840 --> 0:30:08.400 of you know, where that money is allocated towards or 0:30:08.400 --> 0:30:11.880 who it's allocated towards. Um, So to me, it's like, 0:30:12.240 --> 0:30:16.480 I just I don't understand it, you know, Like, well, 0:30:16.520 --> 0:30:19.320 so my question to you is like, how how widespread 0:30:19.360 --> 0:30:21.680 is the discontent among let's say the rank and file 0:30:21.800 --> 0:30:23.160 the PG tour, the guys who are not in the 0:30:23.200 --> 0:30:25.840 top twenty. I mean, is there a lot of unhappiness 0:30:25.840 --> 0:30:28.239 with the current state and the changes of the tour 0:30:28.280 --> 0:30:33.840 have made. Uh So, when when you have a couple 0:30:33.880 --> 0:30:37.360 of people negotiating for the twenty guys, right, and the 0:30:37.400 --> 0:30:41.280 twenty guys, isn't just the twenty guys, it's the thirty 0:30:41.360 --> 0:30:45.680 two forty guys that could potentially move into the top twenty, right, 0:30:45.760 --> 0:30:50.480 and so for these forty guys, for a few individuals 0:30:51.040 --> 0:30:55.640 to make the rules for the entire group, there are 0:30:55.840 --> 0:31:00.360 is gonna be um some disagreements on how how far 0:31:00.480 --> 0:31:02.880 they feel like they should go. So, for example, they 0:31:02.960 --> 0:31:06.320 for the new pit program they're obligated to play in 0:31:06.360 --> 0:31:09.720 these twenty events. Well, there's I can tell you that 0:31:10.080 --> 0:31:13.840 without naming names, at least five to ten guys that 0:31:14.240 --> 0:31:15.960 don't really agree with that. They're like, well, I don't 0:31:15.960 --> 0:31:18.720 want to be obligated to play in these elevated events. 0:31:18.760 --> 0:31:20.360 I want to be able to pick my own schedule. 0:31:20.440 --> 0:31:24.080 That's why, you know, we're independent contractors and you know, 0:31:24.200 --> 0:31:25.960 being able to do what I want to do. If 0:31:25.960 --> 0:31:29.800 it's my daughter's graduation week, I don't want to have 0:31:29.880 --> 0:31:33.880 to play in this golf tournament, which, um, you know. 0:31:33.960 --> 0:31:38.600 Then then it comes like the next process is, well, 0:31:38.640 --> 0:31:40.880 what's the penalty for missing this event? Well, not only 0:31:40.920 --> 0:31:43.240 do you not get pit money or you get a 0:31:43.280 --> 0:31:46.000 reduced amount, there should be some kind of consequence because 0:31:46.040 --> 0:31:51.800 like we're providing so much money up front that we're 0:31:51.800 --> 0:31:54.400 almost guaranteeing a certain product, and if you don't provide 0:31:54.400 --> 0:31:56.720 that product, like what are the repercussions? So now we're 0:31:56.840 --> 0:32:00.520 at a point where like we're still conflicted on what 0:32:00.640 --> 0:32:04.160 this new product will be. Um, but yeah, there are 0:32:04.200 --> 0:32:07.520 a lot of people that are not happy with the 0:32:07.560 --> 0:32:10.640 new product that Um, we're in that secret meeting and 0:32:10.640 --> 0:32:12.600 I can only called secret meeting. Is that's because kind 0:32:12.640 --> 0:32:14.640 of what it's been labeled these days. Oh no, it's 0:32:14.840 --> 0:32:18.240 it's a great term. Um, but you mentioned I mean 0:32:18.240 --> 0:32:20.680 this is actually something that that that Phil has been 0:32:20.720 --> 0:32:24.200 harping on forever is that you know, the superstars drive 0:32:24.280 --> 0:32:29.200 the game, but they're they're outvoted by the rank and file. 0:32:29.240 --> 0:32:31.520 There's a lot more guys who are you know, fifty 0:32:31.680 --> 0:32:33.240 a D fifty on the money list than there are 0:32:33.280 --> 0:32:38.280 top players, and that that there's the everyday tour player 0:32:38.320 --> 0:32:40.920 has an outsized influence because there's just more of them. 0:32:41.080 --> 0:32:43.520 And so obviously what Tiger and Rory did in their 0:32:43.520 --> 0:32:45.280 secret meeting kind of put a lie to that where 0:32:45.280 --> 0:32:49.200 the superstars can exert their influence. But you mentioned, you know, 0:32:49.280 --> 0:32:52.920 the silent majority. I mean, why don't you guys unionize? 0:32:52.960 --> 0:32:56.840 That that's an idea that big and you know, golf 0:32:56.920 --> 0:32:59.320 is really the only sport where the players don't have 0:32:59.360 --> 0:33:02.920 a union to so why not, right, I mean, that's 0:33:02.960 --> 0:33:06.200 that's a that's a million dollar question right there. I mean, 0:33:06.240 --> 0:33:11.560 there's there are people that have considered, but golf is 0:33:11.600 --> 0:33:15.280 such an individual sport it's hard to get all you know, 0:33:15.360 --> 0:33:18.120 I think there's over two hundred, three hundred members. To 0:33:18.120 --> 0:33:20.920 get all three hundred members to agree on a certain 0:33:20.960 --> 0:33:23.320 topic and to make everyone happy, because you have to 0:33:23.960 --> 0:33:26.800 in order for that to be effective, you know, Rory 0:33:27.120 --> 0:33:30.760 would need to agree on certain topics of that Um, gosh, 0:33:30.800 --> 0:33:32.600 I don't. I'm only saying his name. I'm not calling 0:33:32.640 --> 0:33:35.280 him out. But like Great Chalmers for example, right, like 0:33:35.320 --> 0:33:38.000 they would have to agree on kind of how the 0:33:38.000 --> 0:33:41.200 money is being distributed. And obviously one is you know, 0:33:41.240 --> 0:33:44.600 possibly number one in the world, and Great Chalmers is, um, 0:33:44.640 --> 0:33:46.800 you know, playing in a few events because he's has 0:33:46.880 --> 0:33:49.880 conditional status and so UM, it's very hard to get 0:33:49.920 --> 0:33:53.040 all three people on the same page. Um. Also it's 0:33:53.120 --> 0:33:57.400 very expensive. And but also, UM, that's what the purpose 0:33:57.640 --> 0:34:01.080 of the board is, the Player Director board as well 0:34:01.120 --> 0:34:04.200 as the pack, and we're supposed to represent um, the 0:34:04.280 --> 0:34:06.720 tour in the fairest way that we can. And you know, 0:34:06.760 --> 0:34:08.200 for the most part, I feel like they're doing a 0:34:08.239 --> 0:34:13.000 good job. It's just something throws me a wrong way 0:34:13.080 --> 0:34:17.920 when we the pack as well as the Player Advisory 0:34:17.960 --> 0:34:23.600 Board agree on a certain topic and then Rory Tiger 0:34:23.760 --> 0:34:26.839 and the secret meeting happens and throws a wrench into 0:34:26.920 --> 0:34:29.319 our plans, and all of a sudden, everything that we've 0:34:29.320 --> 0:34:31.799 been working on the previous you know, two or three 0:34:31.800 --> 0:34:34.000 months is scrapped from the board, and all of a 0:34:34.040 --> 0:34:37.320 sudden it's like, hey, no, it's you know, the secret 0:34:37.360 --> 0:34:40.560 out of the secret meeting. This elite group of golfers 0:34:40.600 --> 0:34:43.319 want something different, So now we're going to change what 0:34:43.360 --> 0:34:46.560 we we're going to come out with and satisfy what 0:34:46.600 --> 0:34:50.400 they want. Does that make sense? Yeah, it's almost like 0:34:50.640 --> 0:34:52.880 it's almost like two meetings going on, one of the 0:34:52.880 --> 0:34:57.120 actual players, then one with the commissioner um and the 0:34:57.160 --> 0:35:00.400 secret secret meeting. Yeah. No, I mean, those guys just 0:35:00.520 --> 0:35:04.080 kind of subverted the entire process. And Monahan because he 0:35:04.080 --> 0:35:06.320 wants to keep his job, like he said, Okay, great 0:35:06.760 --> 0:35:11.080 rubber stamp that I love that this policy, Like, um, 0:35:11.120 --> 0:35:13.440 it was a very unusual situation. That's why it was 0:35:13.520 --> 0:35:17.480 so interesting. I mean, and even we can all agree 0:35:17.480 --> 0:35:22.200 that Tiger Woods has had an incredible influence on the sport. Um, 0:35:22.280 --> 0:35:23.799 but does it make sense for him to have any 0:35:23.920 --> 0:35:26.160 any say in the future of the tour because he's 0:35:26.200 --> 0:35:28.200 not even going to participate in it really, I mean, 0:35:28.200 --> 0:35:31.400 it's clear that his his playing days are are very limited. 0:35:31.480 --> 0:35:35.759 So it's funny that Tiger, of all people, is uh 0:35:36.239 --> 0:35:39.520 is in charge in some ways when you know he 0:35:39.640 --> 0:35:43.640 has very few events in his future. So and so 0:35:43.680 --> 0:35:46.719 it's also like, you know, we've created this pit to 0:35:48.560 --> 0:35:51.160 prevent guys from going to the Live Tour to give 0:35:51.200 --> 0:35:55.640 them more guaranteed money UM and Tiger had won the 0:35:55.680 --> 0:36:00.080 pit last year without ever playing in an adulter it 0:36:00.400 --> 0:36:03.759 and so it's like a royalty going to him of 0:36:03.920 --> 0:36:05.560 like this is, you know, thank you for all that 0:36:05.600 --> 0:36:08.480 you've done over the years, and we're sorry that you 0:36:08.480 --> 0:36:12.120 you feel like you've having capitalized financially on all the 0:36:12.160 --> 0:36:15.160 opportunities these last twenty years, and so we're gonna make 0:36:15.200 --> 0:36:18.319 that up to you by giving you this guaranteed money 0:36:18.440 --> 0:36:20.799 UM in hopes of you staying on the PGA Tour 0:36:20.840 --> 0:36:24.439 and you continuing your legacy. But you know, no other 0:36:24.480 --> 0:36:27.760 sports league does that, Like I don't think NBA pays 0:36:27.840 --> 0:36:31.840 Michael Jordan's or Kobe Bryant or Kobe Bryant, Shaquille O'Neal, 0:36:31.880 --> 0:36:35.319 all these like star athletes over the years and say hey, 0:36:35.320 --> 0:36:37.920 thank you that what you've done over the years. Here's 0:36:38.360 --> 0:36:41.560 you know, a percentage of our company here moving forward 0:36:41.600 --> 0:36:43.640 for you know, for at the end of time. Like 0:36:44.560 --> 0:36:46.600 to me, it doesn't make any sense. It sounds at 0:36:46.680 --> 0:36:48.160 bit like socialism. I don't know how that's going to 0:36:48.239 --> 0:36:49.560 play in the locker room. And you're like, guys, who 0:36:49.560 --> 0:36:52.480 watch Fox News. I don't like socialism. We're just giving 0:36:52.520 --> 0:36:58.440 Tiger free money for doing nothing, man. But you know, 0:36:58.520 --> 0:37:01.720 on the hindsight, I do agree that, you know, Tiger, 0:37:02.600 --> 0:37:04.520 we wouldn't be here, we wouldn't be playing for the 0:37:04.520 --> 0:37:06.120 amount of money that we're playing for if it wasn't 0:37:06.160 --> 0:37:09.680 four tigers. So yes, rewarded with something um but to 0:37:09.719 --> 0:37:12.600 give away a hundred million dollars a year, I feel 0:37:12.640 --> 0:37:16.239 like it's a lot how much unhappiness is there among 0:37:16.239 --> 0:37:19.120 the tour membership that you know, all of a sudden, 0:37:19.160 --> 0:37:21.200 Live shows up in the tour just turned to spick 0:37:21.239 --> 0:37:23.680 it on and millions and millions of dollars are flowing 0:37:23.719 --> 0:37:26.560 out of the reserve fund and and they're squeezing sponsors. 0:37:26.560 --> 0:37:29.880 It's like wow, you know, I mean, I think it's like, oh, 0:37:29.920 --> 0:37:31.920 we just found twenty million dollars in the couch cushions. 0:37:31.920 --> 0:37:34.400 Guys like sorry, we we've been sorry, been sitting on 0:37:34.400 --> 0:37:36.360 this for all these years. Here here's the money you deserve. 0:37:36.520 --> 0:37:41.600 Like that's that was the one of the biggest, you know, 0:37:42.840 --> 0:37:45.239 biggest things to come out of the whole Live this 0:37:45.280 --> 0:37:48.879 whole experiment that we're in is that you know, we're 0:37:48.880 --> 0:37:52.680 being trained and taught and you know, uh molded to 0:37:53.800 --> 0:37:55.880 dislike the Live Tour, But as a p G a 0:37:56.000 --> 0:38:00.600 tour player, what they've done to our tour this year, 0:38:00.719 --> 0:38:04.239 next year, moving forward is amazing. Right, We're playing for 0:38:04.280 --> 0:38:07.640 more money now now that when we've ever have. We've 0:38:07.680 --> 0:38:12.279 accelerated our growth into the purses to be able to 0:38:12.400 --> 0:38:15.200 keep our players right, We've come out with a hundred 0:38:15.200 --> 0:38:17.680 million dollar pit program for the top players on our tour, 0:38:18.160 --> 0:38:21.160 and so you know, you can kind of argue without 0:38:21.200 --> 0:38:23.040 the Live Tour, we wouldn't have all these things. We 0:38:23.040 --> 0:38:27.040 would still be playing for the purses that grow incrementally 0:38:27.400 --> 0:38:29.319 from Latin the previous year, but we wouldn't be playing 0:38:29.320 --> 0:38:31.080 for a hundred million dollars in the pit. We wouldn't 0:38:31.080 --> 0:38:33.719 be playing for million dollars in the players champe ship, 0:38:33.760 --> 0:38:36.480 we wouldn't be playing for twenty million dollars in tigers 0:38:36.480 --> 0:38:40.920 event um at Riviera. And so you know, in hindsight, 0:38:40.920 --> 0:38:44.640 they've actually made our tour a lot better. Oh yeah, well, 0:38:44.680 --> 0:38:48.160 I mean that's that's Phil Nicholson's whole that's his whole 0:38:48.160 --> 0:38:51.920 position is like that, from even before Live launched, was 0:38:51.960 --> 0:38:54.000 that the tour is not doing enough for the players. 0:38:54.200 --> 0:38:56.960 And you know, I think in some ways he's been 0:38:57.040 --> 0:38:59.480 vindicated and all this. But what is your take on 0:38:59.480 --> 0:39:01.440 on the the rise and fall and rise again of 0:39:01.440 --> 0:39:04.759 Phil Michelson through through this whole process. Yeah, that's a 0:39:05.640 --> 0:39:09.359 man um personally. You know, I've been able to play 0:39:09.400 --> 0:39:12.680 with Phil several times on the PGA Tour. I think 0:39:13.239 --> 0:39:15.960 my personal experiences with him have always been great. You know, 0:39:16.080 --> 0:39:19.560 same with Bryce and same with Brooks. Um. Those guys 0:39:20.880 --> 0:39:26.240 they speak their mind there. They're your non traditional PGA 0:39:26.360 --> 0:39:29.920 Tour member that if they have any problems with the 0:39:29.920 --> 0:39:32.560 tour that they are free to speak their mind and 0:39:32.640 --> 0:39:35.960 kind of uh tell you where they're coming from and 0:39:35.960 --> 0:39:40.520 back it up with real facts. Um. And you know, 0:39:40.600 --> 0:39:43.400 it just kind of makes you see the other side 0:39:43.640 --> 0:39:49.920 of of professional golf, right. I Mean, there's this whole exercise. 0:39:49.960 --> 0:39:52.720 There's good and bad about the p of what happens 0:39:52.719 --> 0:39:57.080 on the PGA Tour pre you know, Michaelson and the 0:39:57.120 --> 0:39:59.799 Live Tour. You know, I don't think there was one 0:40:00.000 --> 0:40:02.160 add thing that the PGA Tour has done ever, right, 0:40:02.239 --> 0:40:04.680 you know what I mean, Like it's like they were 0:40:04.719 --> 0:40:08.799 the Golden child. Like nothing that they do can ever 0:40:08.880 --> 0:40:11.279 be you know, talk down upon or like that. They're 0:40:11.320 --> 0:40:13.799 giving so much charity, they're changing people's lives. You know, 0:40:13.800 --> 0:40:17.520 they're putting so much money uh into players pockets and 0:40:17.680 --> 0:40:20.799 you know, in charities and foundations and all that. But 0:40:20.840 --> 0:40:22.719 then now there's like a different side of it. And 0:40:22.760 --> 0:40:27.960 now it's like you're starting to see things unfold for 0:40:28.040 --> 0:40:30.480 both tours, but also you know the players that are involved. 0:40:32.000 --> 0:40:35.799 Do you think Jay Monahans survives all of this? I, 0:40:36.200 --> 0:40:40.000 as a as a current board member, I cannot answer 0:40:40.040 --> 0:40:43.560 that question. Um. Maybe in a couple of months from now, 0:40:43.560 --> 0:40:45.759 when my time's up, you know, I can probably give 0:40:45.760 --> 0:40:48.520 you a solid answer. But UM, you know, as far 0:40:48.560 --> 0:40:52.200 as we know, you know that the tour is still surviving, 0:40:52.280 --> 0:40:58.560 we're having record numbers. UM, we have kept ah the 0:40:58.600 --> 0:41:01.120 majority of the players on tour in the stars that 0:41:01.200 --> 0:41:04.560 we needed to keep. Um. And so from that side 0:41:04.560 --> 0:41:07.799 of it, you know, yeah, he stays on on the 0:41:08.239 --> 0:41:11.319 as commissioner. Um. You know, I'm sure you can argue 0:41:11.360 --> 0:41:13.520 and a lot of players have argued the other side 0:41:13.520 --> 0:41:18.880 of it, UM that you know, could he have done more? Possibly? 0:41:19.400 --> 0:41:22.520 But when you're going against Greg Norman and the Saudi 0:41:22.560 --> 0:41:26.560 Golf Fund, and you know, basically an unlimited reserve that 0:41:26.600 --> 0:41:29.080 they're sitting on. You know, it's hard to compete against 0:41:29.320 --> 0:41:32.520 an entity like that. Yeah, but the tour has done 0:41:32.520 --> 0:41:34.319 a good job competing. I mean, all the things we've 0:41:34.320 --> 0:41:37.600 talked about like they they've really the money is flowing now. 0:41:37.680 --> 0:41:40.439 If if these changes that have happened the last few months, 0:41:40.440 --> 0:41:43.640 if they had happened a year earlier before Live had launched, 0:41:44.880 --> 0:41:46.800 you probably could have held onto some of your players, 0:41:46.880 --> 0:41:50.319 right And to me, that that's where the Monday Morning 0:41:50.400 --> 0:41:54.240 quarterbacking comes about, is that Monahan didn't seem to take 0:41:54.480 --> 0:41:57.680 the threat seriously enough or he didn't act fast enough, 0:41:57.760 --> 0:42:01.239 like because clearly the mental change can be brought to 0:42:01.239 --> 0:42:03.480 the PG Tour quickly. It happened in a week. You know, 0:42:03.719 --> 0:42:05.440 there was a meeting in Delaware and then boom or 0:42:05.480 --> 0:42:07.359 the tour championship and here's all the new changes, like 0:42:07.680 --> 0:42:09.960 it happened almost overnight. So if you've done that a 0:42:10.040 --> 0:42:13.399 year earlier, I think you absolutely could have blunted liz 0:42:13.480 --> 0:42:17.520 momentum in a huge way. Am I write about that absolutely? 0:42:17.560 --> 0:42:20.799 I mean the one of the biggest critiques about what 0:42:21.080 --> 0:42:24.160 we've done, as well as the decisions that Jay has 0:42:24.200 --> 0:42:27.120 made is that we're all we're very reactive. You know, 0:42:27.160 --> 0:42:29.000 We're waiting for them to make a move and then 0:42:29.000 --> 0:42:30.640 we react to it, and we wait for them to 0:42:30.680 --> 0:42:32.400 make another move and then we react to it. And 0:42:32.440 --> 0:42:35.040 so you're absolutely right. I mean, if we had come 0:42:35.040 --> 0:42:38.719 out with this pit program, uh two years earlier, you know, 0:42:38.800 --> 0:42:43.239 could we have saved uh some of the players. Possibly? 0:42:43.280 --> 0:42:47.960 I mean, we we don't know. It's it's you know, kindsight, um, 0:42:48.000 --> 0:42:50.200 but the fact that we've lost some of the some 0:42:50.280 --> 0:42:55.480 of these big stars, um, you know, and in hindsight 0:42:55.560 --> 0:42:58.440 also that I think if we would have come out 0:42:58.480 --> 0:43:01.520 with this the pit program a few us earlier, guys 0:43:01.560 --> 0:43:04.879 like Dustin Bryson Brooks would have gone anyways, just their 0:43:04.960 --> 0:43:08.000 number would have been exponentially larger, you know what I mean, 0:43:08.040 --> 0:43:10.960 because they basically have to outbid the PGA tour and 0:43:11.120 --> 0:43:13.879 keeping me play these players, and they have an unlimited fund. 0:43:13.880 --> 0:43:17.480 And so if dja's career earnings were projected to be 0:43:17.560 --> 0:43:20.080 two d million dollars after the pit program and the 0:43:20.080 --> 0:43:22.840 person increases, I'm sure the Saudis would have just random 0:43:22.840 --> 0:43:25.959 a check for four million dollars and just not even 0:43:26.000 --> 0:43:28.120 bat and I are grass prices would have gone up 0:43:28.160 --> 0:43:30.399 a little bit. Pricely would have gone up a little bit. 0:43:30.480 --> 0:43:33.399 But you know that's just how that's just how it is, right, 0:43:33.680 --> 0:43:35.960 And so that's a dark thought that our gas prices 0:43:35.960 --> 0:43:39.520 are tied to recoup their money. Let's be got est, right, 0:43:40.520 --> 0:43:42.759 But yeah, it's if they were going to come out 0:43:42.800 --> 0:43:45.560 with this tour. Eventually they were, they were ready. It 0:43:45.680 --> 0:43:48.480 was time. Um, and all they need to do is, 0:43:48.920 --> 0:43:52.520 you know, what's what's everyone's number? Right, Alan, what's your number? James, 0:43:52.520 --> 0:43:54.320 what's your number? You know, everyone's got a number, and 0:43:54.360 --> 0:43:57.920 they just keep bidding back and forth until someone reaches 0:43:57.920 --> 0:44:00.400 that number. And then you start telling everybody, hey we 0:44:00.480 --> 0:44:03.439 got so and so on board. Um, you know who's 0:44:03.480 --> 0:44:06.600 who's next? You know they're rulling right this checks I 0:44:06.600 --> 0:44:08.560 mean thinking about the number. That's interesting is and I 0:44:08.600 --> 0:44:11.719 think this is one of Monahan's miscalculations, is that he 0:44:11.840 --> 0:44:14.279 might have overvalued what the PGA Tour means to some 0:44:14.360 --> 0:44:17.040 of its players. Like to me, I would say, if 0:44:17.080 --> 0:44:18.880 I'm James Hant, I want to go back to Riveria 0:44:18.960 --> 0:44:20.080 for the rest of my life. I want to go 0:44:20.120 --> 0:44:22.360 back to Quail Hollow. These are the greatest weeks of 0:44:22.400 --> 0:44:25.160 your life instead of playing you know, in the middle 0:44:25.160 --> 0:44:28.400 of nowhere in Saudi Arabia, but no fans like um, 0:44:28.440 --> 0:44:30.200 you know, the energy at the l A Open is 0:44:30.239 --> 0:44:33.560 off the charts, and and you've got every time you 0:44:33.560 --> 0:44:35.600 walk up the eighteenth fairway, you're gonna remember what you 0:44:35.640 --> 0:44:38.240 did and like, to me, that has so much value. 0:44:38.280 --> 0:44:42.280 But obviously, you know, maybe we over romanticize this because 0:44:42.360 --> 0:44:43.640 a lot of the players were just happy to take 0:44:43.640 --> 0:44:45.399 the money and walk away from the tour and their 0:44:45.400 --> 0:44:48.520 favorite tournaments and you know, the volunteers that they've known 0:44:48.520 --> 0:44:50.520 for twenty years and the houses they stayed and all 0:44:50.520 --> 0:44:52.239 these things they get written about in the local media, 0:44:52.280 --> 0:44:54.719 which it sounds almost like b s now, like you 0:44:54.760 --> 0:44:57.360 know what, now that really matters if if, if the 0:44:57.440 --> 0:45:01.279 check arrives. So I mean, how let's just let's just 0:45:01.320 --> 0:45:04.400 say that that live made you a great offer, whatever 0:45:04.400 --> 0:45:06.040 that number is. I mean, how hard would it be 0:45:06.040 --> 0:45:08.080 for you to walk away from the tour life that 0:45:08.120 --> 0:45:13.200 you know, Uh, honestly, it wouldn't be that hard to 0:45:13.280 --> 0:45:18.080 walk away. And I'll tell you why, is that it 0:45:18.160 --> 0:45:21.440 was very mind blowing when uh, the year that I 0:45:21.440 --> 0:45:23.880 got injured, I had a Parsley torn Trisu on them. 0:45:23.920 --> 0:45:26.399 So having a great career up until that, I never 0:45:26.440 --> 0:45:29.080 lost my car to two wins on the PGA tour, 0:45:29.640 --> 0:45:32.279 injured my right elbow and all of a sudden, you know, 0:45:32.400 --> 0:45:35.080 I'm on I'm on medical UM. I had to wait 0:45:35.120 --> 0:45:40.480 six months to start getting medical checks um and being 0:45:40.520 --> 0:45:46.040 able to being ready to come back and playing in 0:45:46.120 --> 0:45:51.520 the confines of a medical UM status and being able 0:45:51.560 --> 0:45:55.080 to keep my card that year was extremely difficult. And 0:45:55.120 --> 0:45:59.120 so understanding that any injury that I have and just 0:45:59.200 --> 0:46:02.600 as well as any sport um, could be the end 0:46:02.640 --> 0:46:06.960 of my career, and that I'm disposable, that basically it's 0:46:07.080 --> 0:46:10.000 next man up, someone else comes up. Um, No one's 0:46:10.040 --> 0:46:12.120 really calling me and saying, hey, James, we really need 0:46:12.200 --> 0:46:14.600 you on this tour or tour struggling without you, right, 0:46:14.960 --> 0:46:20.800 But understanding also that um, Tiger Woods, Uh, he's injured 0:46:20.840 --> 0:46:23.960 and the tour is still surviving and doing very well, 0:46:24.400 --> 0:46:26.960 that they're just gonna find the next person, you know, 0:46:27.239 --> 0:46:32.120 like if we run in cycles, and so UM, knowing 0:46:32.520 --> 0:46:36.759 kind of that any week now, any year that my 0:46:36.840 --> 0:46:39.239 PGA tour could be could be over, whether I don't 0:46:39.239 --> 0:46:43.440 play well or I'm injured to have guaranteed money is 0:46:43.480 --> 0:46:47.719 something that's really difficult to turn down. UM. So I'm 0:46:47.719 --> 0:46:50.080 biging on myself that you know, I'm gonna stay healthy 0:46:50.120 --> 0:46:51.920 for the next ten years, play on the Champions Tour 0:46:51.960 --> 0:46:54.880 and do all that. Um. But if there's a number 0:46:54.920 --> 0:47:00.799 out there that's basically gonna pay all that money. Um, 0:47:00.840 --> 0:47:02.839 and I gotta be very careful with my words, but 0:47:03.800 --> 0:47:06.520 pay all that money up front to where if I 0:47:06.560 --> 0:47:09.160 do get injured, that I will still have, um, the 0:47:09.200 --> 0:47:11.680 life that I live. I mean, you can see my house. 0:47:11.760 --> 0:47:14.400 It's not a you know, it doesn't look like a 0:47:14.400 --> 0:47:16.680 fifteen million dollar house, right. I got the smallest house 0:47:16.719 --> 0:47:19.640 on the block. Um. You know I got a two 0:47:19.680 --> 0:47:22.200 thousand and fifteen Henda Genesis in the garage. Like I'm 0:47:22.200 --> 0:47:25.400 not driving Lamborghi's and stuff like. So, ten million dollars 0:47:25.480 --> 0:47:28.160 is life changing. So but for a guy like Dustin, 0:47:28.680 --> 0:47:30.319 you know, a hundred million dollars might not be life 0:47:30.360 --> 0:47:32.759 changing because he already has a hundred million dollars, you 0:47:32.800 --> 0:47:34.959 know what I mean. So, UM, I feel like each 0:47:34.960 --> 0:47:40.919 person has their number of what really is life changing, um, 0:47:41.000 --> 0:47:42.799 and then being able to walk away from the game. 0:47:44.719 --> 0:47:47.440 I feel like it's a legitimate question that a lot 0:47:47.480 --> 0:47:52.560 of PGA Tour players are asked. Yeah, well that's well said, 0:47:52.680 --> 0:47:56.320 and I appreciate your candor. And uh, you know, I 0:47:56.680 --> 0:47:59.480 think because golfers have a long career, as the fans, 0:48:00.000 --> 0:48:02.560 don't think too much about how how much injury can 0:48:02.840 --> 0:48:05.520 can factor and decision. But no doubt for for Brooks 0:48:05.520 --> 0:48:07.680 and Bryson, that was certainly a factor. I mean they've 0:48:07.719 --> 0:48:11.239 they've had serious injuries and you hapen to wheels out tours. 0:48:11.239 --> 0:48:13.600 I mean that was the most expensive back injury in history, right. 0:48:13.640 --> 0:48:15.600 I mean he's gonna with the FedEx Cup maybe and 0:48:15.880 --> 0:48:19.200 drops to thirty and who knows what his future looks like. 0:48:19.320 --> 0:48:23.400 So they definitely I think that that's a that's absolutely 0:48:23.480 --> 0:48:26.560 legitimate concern, even even if it's not really forefront for 0:48:26.560 --> 0:48:29.080 for golf fans. But right, and it's it's also like 0:48:29.800 --> 0:48:33.560 to be able, let's say a couple of years from now, 0:48:33.920 --> 0:48:36.719 you know, if Brooks or Bryson had stayed on the 0:48:36.760 --> 0:48:40.160 PGA Tour and they were to have gotten injured and 0:48:40.239 --> 0:48:44.240 they have a life or career ending injury, right, They're 0:48:44.239 --> 0:48:48.399 going to regret it, probably for a really long time. 0:48:48.440 --> 0:48:49.799 I'm not going to say the rest of your life, 0:48:49.800 --> 0:48:51.680 because they do have you know, I've made some really 0:48:51.719 --> 0:48:55.160 good investments, um of not just taking the money, you 0:48:55.200 --> 0:48:58.400 know what I mean. Um, And so there's it's hindsights 0:48:58.400 --> 0:49:00.560 always twenties. Yeah, if you're gonna stay healthy for the 0:49:00.560 --> 0:49:03.640 next twenty years, by all means, stay on the PGA tour. 0:49:03.800 --> 0:49:06.239 Love to play on the PGA tour, um, and just 0:49:06.520 --> 0:49:09.319 make a legacy for yourself. But if there's even that 0:49:09.400 --> 0:49:11.600 one percent chance that you feel like you're gonna get 0:49:11.600 --> 0:49:14.879 injured or you have had injuries in the past, it's 0:49:14.920 --> 0:49:18.319 easier to to take the guaranteed money then and take 0:49:18.320 --> 0:49:22.960 a chance on your body. Yeah. All right, Well I've 0:49:22.960 --> 0:49:24.640 had a chance to talk about these things, and you know, 0:49:24.680 --> 0:49:29.280 Twitter is so reductionists and it's hard to fully express yourself. 0:49:29.360 --> 0:49:31.440 But I think the fans of home listening to this 0:49:31.480 --> 0:49:34.480 conversation will will have a more a greater appreciation for 0:49:34.480 --> 0:49:37.160 your thoughtfulness and and that you you have ruminate on 0:49:37.160 --> 0:49:40.279 these things in a pretty deep way. So and one 0:49:40.320 --> 0:49:43.800 thing that I would like to, you know, to say 0:49:44.120 --> 0:49:47.759 is that I absolutely love the PGA tour. Right, I 0:49:47.800 --> 0:49:50.480 get a lot of Twitter hate saying, you know, Why 0:49:50.480 --> 0:49:52.880 don't you just join live? Why don't you uh, you know, 0:49:52.960 --> 0:49:54.880 it seems like you hate the PGA Tour so much, 0:49:54.960 --> 0:49:57.640 and it's like, I don't hate the PGA Tour. It's 0:49:57.680 --> 0:50:00.400 like I play on the p G a to or 0:50:00.600 --> 0:50:03.280 you know, how can how can someone hate the PGA 0:50:03.360 --> 0:50:05.680 Tour and play on the PGA Tour and play full 0:50:05.680 --> 0:50:08.160 schedule of twenty eight events? To me, it just I 0:50:08.160 --> 0:50:13.680 don't understand it, right, And so, UM, I love what 0:50:13.760 --> 0:50:17.360 the PGA Tour is doing. There's so many great stories. Um. 0:50:17.400 --> 0:50:20.520 I am grateful for the opportunities that I've gotten, the 0:50:20.560 --> 0:50:23.560 two tournament wins that I've had, and hopefully more throughout 0:50:23.640 --> 0:50:26.799 my career being able to qualify for, um, you know, 0:50:26.840 --> 0:50:29.520 a Wryder Cup or a President's Cup. Definitely some goals 0:50:29.520 --> 0:50:33.040 of mine that I have. UM. But I can be mad, 0:50:33.080 --> 0:50:35.480 I can and I can love the PGA Tour and 0:50:35.560 --> 0:50:38.600 enjoy playing on a PGA Tour, but also question some 0:50:38.640 --> 0:50:40.520 of the things that they're doing in the background. Right, 0:50:40.560 --> 0:50:44.040 I can question why money is going not more towards 0:50:44.600 --> 0:50:47.480 you know, the average to above average PGA Tour player 0:50:47.520 --> 0:50:50.080 and only concentrated on the top players. And I understand 0:50:50.080 --> 0:50:53.160 the whole aspect of it. But you know I can, 0:50:53.239 --> 0:50:54.960 I can question these things, and I you know, I 0:50:55.000 --> 0:50:56.839 have an opinion. I have a right to do that. 0:50:57.000 --> 0:50:59.600 But it doesn't mean that I Tomorrow, I'm just gonna 0:50:59.600 --> 0:51:01.080 call up it and say, hey, you know, I hate 0:51:01.080 --> 0:51:02.920 the PGA tour. I want to leave. You know, I 0:51:02.960 --> 0:51:05.400 love playing on tour, I love supporting these events. I 0:51:05.480 --> 0:51:07.920 love um the fans that show up for it. And 0:51:08.400 --> 0:51:10.520 you know, I plan on staying here for a really 0:51:10.520 --> 0:51:12.239 long time, so you're gonna have to deal with me 0:51:12.280 --> 0:51:15.759 for a long time. A part of loving something is 0:51:15.760 --> 0:51:17.640 you want it to be better. And like you know, 0:51:18.120 --> 0:51:22.680 patriotism is not just blindly following what you're told. It's 0:51:22.840 --> 0:51:26.000 it's questioning authority and it's advocating for change. And I mean, 0:51:26.040 --> 0:51:27.840 you can you can love America and you can, but 0:51:27.880 --> 0:51:29.719 you can want it to be better. It's the same 0:51:29.760 --> 0:51:32.680 with anything. So um, I think I think that's a 0:51:32.800 --> 0:51:36.439 very important point for you to make. So UM, Well, 0:51:36.480 --> 0:51:39.359 this this was this was an edifying conversation. I feel 0:51:39.400 --> 0:51:40.799 like we should do this a little more often. Let's 0:51:40.840 --> 0:51:43.160 let's try, and let's let's say next time there's a 0:51:43.200 --> 0:51:47.960 there's a there's a reason to continue this this this discussion. 0:51:48.040 --> 0:51:50.680 Let's get back on here because I think your perspective 0:51:50.719 --> 0:51:53.040 is is definitely important for fans to hear. So if 0:51:53.120 --> 0:51:56.000 James Han, thank you for doing this Fire Drill podcast, 0:51:56.040 --> 0:51:58.560 will we'll wrap it up here. This is Alan Ship Night. 0:51:58.680 --> 0:52:01.160 We will be back in your ears soon. And uh 0:52:01.200 --> 0:52:03.000 and speaking for all golf fans and James, I think 0:52:03.000 --> 0:52:05.440 we hope we play well. Make that Rider Cup team. 0:52:05.480 --> 0:52:07.239 I mean that would that would be sweet. It's uh, 0:52:08.280 --> 0:52:10.160 you've had it. You've had quite a journey through golf, 0:52:10.200 --> 0:52:12.719 so I'm glad it's gonna keep going. Thank you very much. 0:52:12.760 --> 0:52:16.160 Thanks for giving me an opportunity. You just gotta express myself, 0:52:16.760 --> 0:52:21.439 um and not on the confines of Twitter, So thank you. Really. Yeah. 0:52:21.440 --> 0:52:27.279 I enjoyed it a bit big and I played to win, 0:52:28.760 --> 0:52:32.799 made a fortune, win my ship game and I ran 0:52:32.880 --> 0:52:36.200 the table. Never thought I could fall them. The winter 0:52:36.360 --> 0:52:42.120 time hit me like a cannon ball. And now I 0:52:42.160 --> 0:52:46.720 can't shake this losing the street. Every road I take 0:52:47.040 --> 0:52:52.440 is a dead end street. I got thoughts in my head, 0:52:53.120 --> 0:52:58.280 can't give try and nothing what I'm thinking about about 0:52:59.320 --> 0:53:02.919 in my head can get them out and try and 0:53:03.040 --> 0:53:05.480 not to think what I'm thinking about,