Speaker 1: I've heard people say, well, if you want a part
Speaker 1: of the hundred million dollars, just play better. Right, It's
Speaker 1: it's a meritocracy. Just play better, Just play better. It's
Speaker 1: funny that Patrick Cantley played the best out of any
Speaker 1: PGA Tour golfer the year that he won the FedEx Cup,
Speaker 1: won the super Bowl of Our of our Tour, and
Speaker 1: didn't get a dollar from the Pit program. And so
Speaker 1: what part of play better fixes that part? That portion
Speaker 1: of you know where that money is allocated towards or
Speaker 1: who it's allocated towards. I got thoughts in my head,
Speaker 1: can't get John nothing. Well, I'm thinking about thoughts in
Speaker 1: my head, can't get them out, and not to think well,
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about Hello. This is Alan Schipknuck back for
Speaker 1: another Fire Drill podcast. We have a very intriguing guest today,
Speaker 1: but before we get to him, a quick word of
Speaker 1: thanks to our sponsors, doing making these podcasts, doing journalism
Speaker 1: in general, takes to resources. Were very grateful for those
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Speaker 1: They have all kinds of things that you might enjoy
Speaker 1: and will improve your life in some small way, So
Speaker 1: check it out now. To our guest today, PGA tour
Speaker 1: veteran James Hahn M James, thanks for doing this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: thanks for having me. We're gonna, you know, talk about
Speaker 1: some interesting topics and looking forward to the fireworks. I
Speaker 1: think we're just gonna talk about cal golf. But okay, sure, yeah,
Speaker 1: sure talked me into it. Uh well, all right, so James,
Speaker 1: for most of your career, you've been known by your
Speaker 1: slightly quirky biography. You know, former shoe salesman, and then
Speaker 1: you're known as a guy who's winning tournaments on big
Speaker 1: time courses Riviera and Quail Hollow. And you know, you've
Speaker 1: been out there a decade now and um, this year
Speaker 1: you've morphed into a unicorn. You are the rare PGA
Speaker 1: Tour player who's publicly supportive of Live and you've you
Speaker 1: staked out some some cutting edge positions on Twitter. So
Speaker 1: walking me through this evolution, I mean, obviously these these um,
Speaker 1: the Premier Golf League and then the Saudi Golf League,
Speaker 1: then Live Golf. The stuff has been shocking around for
Speaker 1: a while and um, but very quickly people had to
Speaker 1: choose sides. So at what point did you did you
Speaker 1: realize you wanted to try and be either a peacemaker
Speaker 1: or at least a voice of reason in the professional
Speaker 1: golf world. Yeah, that's a great question. So, um, you know,
Speaker 1: I I do have a lot of friends that play
Speaker 1: on the Live Tour. I have a lot of friends
Speaker 1: that play on the PGA Tour. I have friends that
Speaker 1: are supportive of both. I have friends that you know,
Speaker 1: hate the Live Tour, and I have you know, friends
Speaker 1: that love both tours. And so for me, um, how
Speaker 1: I got into. This was basically uh, you know the
Speaker 1: pot calling the kettle black or something along those lines.
Speaker 1: Is that it was so one sided, right that as
Speaker 1: soon as the lid came out and people were deflecting
Speaker 1: and going to the that tour, that we were throwing
Speaker 1: these guys under the bus. We were calling them names, um,
Speaker 1: just saying everything that we can't have people uh support
Speaker 1: their views of how they see the live tour, right.
Speaker 1: And so for us as a player, as a person
Speaker 1: that's inside the bubble, you know, it was another player
Speaker 1: who decided to go to another tour for a better
Speaker 1: opportunity in their eyes financially, right, Um. And so you know,
Speaker 1: we can go through all the different narratives of you know,
Speaker 1: you know people saying, you know, if he, if so
Speaker 1: and so said that they were leaving for the money,
Speaker 1: I would respect him a lot more, you know, things
Speaker 1: like that and so, um. You know, and then for
Speaker 1: me as a as a player, like you know, I've
Speaker 1: more or less considered, you know, what my number would
Speaker 1: be if I decided to to go to live or like,
Speaker 1: you know, everyone has a number, you know, we're in
Speaker 1: the locker room, it's like, well, what's your number, what's
Speaker 1: your number? You know everyone's got a number, right, and
Speaker 1: what's your number? Some people have a number so big
Speaker 1: that it's just unreasonable, right, umber, give us a number.
Speaker 1: I can't. I can't tell you why number it's it's
Speaker 1: you know, it's definitely in the millions, right, But um,
Speaker 1: for me, it's it's what am I giving up? Right?
Speaker 1: So I'm you know on that topic, you know, I
Speaker 1: would like to play the Champions Tour. I'd like to
Speaker 1: play further along in my career as long as I can. Um.
Speaker 1: And so right now, it seems like you either have
Speaker 1: to pick one tour or the other. Um, I feel like,
Speaker 1: you know, after the lawsuit next year, who knows what
Speaker 1: what can happen? You know, can someone play both tours?
Speaker 1: And so I'm sure we'll talk about that more in depth,
Speaker 1: uh the next time. I've always felt like that, And
Speaker 1: you know, I've been to a handful to live events
Speaker 1: and of course I've been too many PG Tour events.
Speaker 1: And I feel like that's the player's dream, right is
Speaker 1: you could keep your your tour membership, you could play
Speaker 1: your favorite events, and you could cherry pick some of
Speaker 1: the live tournaments. UM like that, that is what everyone
Speaker 1: would would love to have, no matter what they say publicly, right,
Speaker 1: am I correct in that thinking absolutely. I mean it's
Speaker 1: so that that's another you know thing of um. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought it up. Of uh. For example,
Speaker 1: Patrick Reid playing in all these events, and everyone's saying,
Speaker 1: you know, I thought they wanted to play less events.
Speaker 1: I thought they wanted to play less. You know, that
Speaker 1: was one of the reasons to spend more time with
Speaker 1: the family. And you know, I understand that, but you
Speaker 1: could you know. The the other side of it is
Speaker 1: there's a lot of weeks throughout the year that we
Speaker 1: play golf and that we enjoy playing and we love competing, right,
Speaker 1: and so four teen tournaments to work only fourteen weeks
Speaker 1: out of the year, I feel like might not be enough.
Speaker 1: You know. Some of these guys love to compete and
Speaker 1: they missed the competition. Um. But to be obligated to play,
Speaker 1: you know, thirty events a year, you know, if you're
Speaker 1: trying to play both tours, um, I feel like it
Speaker 1: is unreasonable. And so um, you know, everyone's saying, you know,
Speaker 1: play less golf tournaments and yeah, you know, we average
Speaker 1: like tournaments. Yeah, I'm fourteen tournaments is less than twenty five.
Speaker 1: But guess what, so is fifteen? So it's sixteen, so
Speaker 1: seventeen you know, so it's like every one of these
Speaker 1: tournaments that they add is still under the average that
Speaker 1: they would have had in the past few years and
Speaker 1: the years going going forward. Yeah. Well, and I mean
Speaker 1: Live has been very clear to say if you if
Speaker 1: you join us, you have to play all our tournaments,
Speaker 1: but we don't care what you do in the other weeks.
Speaker 1: You can play anywhere you want. I mean, they're they're
Speaker 1: trying to make it clear that their players have that
Speaker 1: freedom to go to the European Tour, go to the
Speaker 1: pg Tour, whatever they can fin angle. So yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean even even tiger Jack and their prime when they
Speaker 1: played limited schedules to try and be competitively hungry, I
Speaker 1: mean they were playing seventeen, eighteen, nine, fourteen is that's
Speaker 1: probably not enough to really be sharp, so I think,
Speaker 1: and it's it's also very ironic that you know, uh,
Speaker 1: we're calling out to Live players and well now they're
Speaker 1: you know, employees, they have to play these fourteen events.
Speaker 1: Well guess what the PGA Tour rolled out here? Uh,
Speaker 1: I think it goes into effect the season is that
Speaker 1: in order for someone to um be eligible for the
Speaker 1: pit money is that they are obligated to play in
Speaker 1: twenty events this season, right, which includes the majors, the playoffs,
Speaker 1: elevated events. And so it's almost like the PGA Tour saying, oh,
Speaker 1: fourteen events, will will one up yea, and we'll go
Speaker 1: twenty events. And so to me, it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: it's very hypocritical for us to call out live players
Speaker 1: for doing this when now we are almost doing the
Speaker 1: exact same thing. And so that's where I feel like
Speaker 1: the narrative is kind of shifted. It's like, well, you know,
Speaker 1: before Rory was saying, um, you know about the world
Speaker 1: ranking points. You know, if they decided to leave, so
Speaker 1: they shouldn't get any world ranking points, this and that
Speaker 1: he's so one sided, and then two months later he's saying, well,
Speaker 1: if Dustin Johnson's ranked over one in the world, then
Speaker 1: it's not a true reflection of how good of a
Speaker 1: golfer he is, and therefore the world ranking system is
Speaker 1: not fair. Yeah, I'm curious how much blowback have you
Speaker 1: gotten from your colleagues or even some of the minders
Speaker 1: and Pontovidra Beach for for your public statements that are
Speaker 1: supportive of Live. Yeah, the people that get paychecks from
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour Partovidra for the most part, you know,
Speaker 1: they understand that I have a voice, that I have
Speaker 1: my own views that they might not necessarily agree on,
Speaker 1: and it's uh, you know, they're very respectful of it.
Speaker 1: You know, they listen, but they also questioned, like, well,
Speaker 1: you know, what are some of the things that we
Speaker 1: can do differently to better the PGA tour, right, And
Speaker 1: so now they're rolling out with all these things incentives
Speaker 1: for us to play on PGA Tour um as far
Speaker 1: as players, caddies, club reps, fans. I can't tell you
Speaker 1: how many people in person have come up to me
Speaker 1: and said, you know, thank you for finally saying what
Speaker 1: people want to say but they might not necessarily have
Speaker 1: the platform or have the courage to say, because there
Speaker 1: is a lot of backlash for that. I'm getting just
Speaker 1: for not really being in supportive Live but not against Live. Right.
Speaker 1: It's almost like, if you're not against Live, then your
Speaker 1: four live, and if your four lived, that means you're
Speaker 1: against the PGA Tour. It's like connecting the dots, right
Speaker 1: and so uh, it's it's so it's gotten so political
Speaker 1: at this point that you either have to pick a
Speaker 1: side between left and right, and if you're in the middle,
Speaker 1: then you're wrong altogether. Right. Um. So I feel like,
Speaker 1: you know, I'd hate for us to live in a
Speaker 1: world where we're so divided between Live and PGA Tour,
Speaker 1: and it just ruins the game because it's ruining politics,
Speaker 1: it's ruining families, it's ruined friendships. Um. I'd like to
Speaker 1: see a world where they possibly you know, get together
Speaker 1: and co exist. But I feel like the anti Live
Speaker 1: fans and golfers are against that idea. Yes, well you're
Speaker 1: an idealist, James Irish, but it's hard, hard, it's hard
Speaker 1: to maintain that innocence. Uh. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: this podcast is really an outgrowth of, you know, of
Speaker 1: some Twitter exchanges we had in the last few days,
Speaker 1: and you did brand me anti Live, which I don't
Speaker 1: think it's quite accurate. You know, I've tried to be
Speaker 1: very much down the middle, and whenever I get I
Speaker 1: get it from both sides. You're a pg tors schill
Speaker 1: or you're a Live hater like I kind of it's
Speaker 1: almost fifty fifty. I think people calling me, um, you know,
Speaker 1: calling me out on both sides, which I think tells
Speaker 1: me I'm probably doing my job somewhat of you know.
Speaker 1: I mean, like the folks that live golf have told
Speaker 1: me to my face, like thank you for your coverage.
Speaker 1: You know, we appreciate you have an open mind and
Speaker 1: being fair. So I'm like, jeez, maybe I'm being too
Speaker 1: soft on them, but yeah, so, but you're right if
Speaker 1: if you if you try and play it down the middle,
Speaker 1: then everyone's mad at you. It's almost easier to just
Speaker 1: stick pick aside and stand on the tops and shout,
Speaker 1: which is what a lot of obviously other people in
Speaker 1: the golf media are doing. But I'm trying to avoid
Speaker 1: that and bring a little subtlety to the conversation. But
Speaker 1: it can get lost, and I would and I do
Speaker 1: respect that you do play down the middle. You're getting
Speaker 1: it from both sides, which pretty much means that you're
Speaker 1: doing it the right way. I mean, I remember, you know,
Speaker 1: even a few months back that you know, even talking
Speaker 1: about live or promoting live, or even showing anything good
Speaker 1: about live was a no no, right like it was
Speaker 1: you know, the PGA Tour and only the PGA Tour.
Speaker 1: And if you talk about the live tour in a
Speaker 1: in a good way, then you're against us. You're not
Speaker 1: You're not in the boys club, right, And so how
Speaker 1: things have changed is like when brooks Keptka just won
Speaker 1: this last week. You know, you see journalists and reporters congratulating,
Speaker 1: books kept going on another win on you know, uh,
Speaker 1: you know is winless, drought and all this stuff. You know,
Speaker 1: it's the it's changing to where, um, it's normalizing the
Speaker 1: live tour in the golf ecosystem. And so before it,
Speaker 1: you know, I'd like to compare things. I like a
Speaker 1: lot of like analogies and stuff, but it's almost like um,
Speaker 1: Tesla when they first came out, Right when Tesla first
Speaker 1: came out, everyone's like, oh, they're not gonna you know,
Speaker 1: they're they're not gonna be successful. Even three or four
Speaker 1: I remember having a conversation with my financial advisor. I said, Hey,
Speaker 1: what do you think about adding Tesla to my portfolio?
Speaker 1: And he's like, Oh, they're gonna go under in the
Speaker 1: next few years. I would would never recommend investing in
Speaker 1: Tesla and this and that. Now it's normal to where
Speaker 1: it's kind of cool to have a tesla like, let's
Speaker 1: be honest, right, um, And so I feel like we're
Speaker 1: kind of in the beginning stages of that where you know,
Speaker 1: live golf it's live versus PGA Tour. But to three
Speaker 1: five years down the road, we could actually be an
Speaker 1: environment where you know, it's kind of cool to watch
Speaker 1: both on TV well, so that the critics would of
Speaker 1: Live golf with saying that normalizing is the problem, that
Speaker 1: that is the entire reason that this exists, is you know,
Speaker 1: Saturday being government trying to normalize its relationships with the
Speaker 1: Western world, and that is the ultimate goal of sports washing.
Speaker 1: And so you know, people have I get this a lot.
Speaker 1: You know, you shouldn't even report on it, You shouldn't
Speaker 1: even talk about it because you're normalizing it. And it's
Speaker 1: a valid critique given you know, who's providing the money.
Speaker 1: You know. My rebuttal is it's just one of the
Speaker 1: biggest stories in golf this century. And in my position,
Speaker 1: I can't ignore it. There's just too much at stake
Speaker 1: here for the game, and um, it's just too big
Speaker 1: a story. But um, you know that what is what
Speaker 1: is what would be your abuttle to that that even
Speaker 1: by talking about live and saying, you know, I think
Speaker 1: it has some merit that that you're serving as an
Speaker 1: agent of propaganda for Saudi Arabia. That's a great question.
Speaker 1: That's something that I've been thinking about and I kind
Speaker 1: of knew you were gonna ask the question. Um, it's
Speaker 1: it is a big issue. You know, I'm not going
Speaker 1: to deny it. You know, the human rights UM problems
Speaker 1: that they have in Saudi Arabia, if there is any
Speaker 1: chance that the the government, you know, the people that
Speaker 1: are UM, the Saudi Golf Fund right that is sponsoring
Speaker 1: the lift or putting money into the lift UM, if
Speaker 1: that has any influence on how they proceed as a
Speaker 1: country and make changes, change being able to change their
Speaker 1: human Rights UM regulations in their country, if that has
Speaker 1: any positive influence for their country, on whether or not.
Speaker 1: You know, they've invested billions of dollars into this live
Speaker 1: golf and you know, if if something bad happens, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm sure the first thing that goes through their own
Speaker 1: mind is not thinking like, oh, you know, I wonder
Speaker 1: how the our live golf fans are going to handle this,
Speaker 1: are going to take this? You know, we need to
Speaker 1: make a really good decision here because we can't lose
Speaker 1: our fan base. But if there's any like of even
Speaker 1: a one percent of them even considering that, then could
Speaker 1: you say that live golf may or may not have
Speaker 1: a positive influence on the human rights in Saudi Arabia?
Speaker 1: Does that make any sense? I have a hard time
Speaker 1: with my words, but if yeah, you know it does.
Speaker 1: I mean from from the standpoint the people who say,
Speaker 1: well this, uh, you know live, What if if MBS
Speaker 1: wakes up tomorrow he doesn't want to waste more money
Speaker 1: on golf and Live will just blow away like tumbleweed?
Speaker 1: And my rebuttal is that so? I've you know, the
Speaker 1: guys who run the public investment funds at Arabia are
Speaker 1: probably the most powerful people on the planet who are
Speaker 1: not heads of state. And their top two guys have
Speaker 1: been at every live event. It's his excellency Yasir al
Speaker 1: Ramayan and then his deputy, this guy named Magic. And
Speaker 1: they play in the pro ams and they zip around
Speaker 1: in their cart and they'll play a couple of holes
Speaker 1: of dust, and they'll play a couple holes of phil,
Speaker 1: a couple holes of brights, and like they're having the
Speaker 1: greatest time of their life. And they're on the first
Speaker 1: team and they're tapping up the players and you can
Speaker 1: see the joy this has brought UM to be in
Speaker 1: this this inner circle and to get this acceptance UM.
Speaker 1: And who knows what quiet conversations are happening, whether it's
Speaker 1: with former President Trump or it's just captains of industry
Speaker 1: who come out and play in the pro am. And
Speaker 1: so they have bought access to the Western world in
Speaker 1: a way that they've always craved. And it's hard to
Speaker 1: put a price tag on that, but it has tremendous value.
Speaker 1: And on interpersonal level, you know, every Tuesday night at
Speaker 1: the tournaments, they host a party um you know UH,
Speaker 1: and the players come and they're drinking two thousand UM
Speaker 1: Bordeaus and they're having a great time. And these guys
Speaker 1: are the center of it all. And so now as
Speaker 1: they go out into the world as these representatives of
Speaker 1: the Saud Arabian government like, they have been exposed to
Speaker 1: a lot of UH culture in the United States, in England,
Speaker 1: at the Centurion Club, wherever they've they've gone, and they've
Speaker 1: been the toast of the town. And so I think
Speaker 1: in that regard, those two men who run the p
Speaker 1: IF could have, I could see where lives affected. They're thinking,
Speaker 1: and they don't want this party to end. They don't
Speaker 1: want they don't want the Public Investment Fund or the
Speaker 1: government to do something so bad that all of a
Speaker 1: sudden they're so toxic. They can't be on the first
Speaker 1: tea anymore, and they can't play with Trump at at
Speaker 1: bad Minister, and they can't do all these things that
Speaker 1: they're they're enjoying. And so um, again, these guys hold
Speaker 1: all the cards of global finances and so to see
Speaker 1: how much joy live golf has brought them. Um, I
Speaker 1: really think that what you're saying there there is some
Speaker 1: mer they're just on interpersonal level now, Um, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't. Also, I also feel like it goes both ways, right,
Speaker 1: And so not only have they bought into our Western
Speaker 1: world in our way of thinking, but we've also infiltrated
Speaker 1: you know, their inner circle, right, Michaelson has an opportunity
Speaker 1: to talk to his excellency on a weekly basis if
Speaker 1: you wanted to on a daily basis, right, Like we've
Speaker 1: we've gone into you know, their men's club, right, And
Speaker 1: so um for me, I'm I'm forty one years old. Uh,
Speaker 1: And I grew up listening to a lot of hip
Speaker 1: hop and rap growing up, right, and so one of
Speaker 1: the things that I still remember to this day was, Uh,
Speaker 1: there was a clip of Tupop Tupac. He's a rapper
Speaker 1: back in the days. A lot of the young kids
Speaker 1: won't remember him, but this dude was like everybody knows.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean the younger kids these days,
Speaker 1: you know, they still play it on the radio. But um,
Speaker 1: he was like way before his time. But anyways, they
Speaker 1: asked him. I believe it was when uh, you know,
Speaker 1: Bush Senior was in office and they had asked him,
Speaker 1: you know, if Bush invited you to the White House,
Speaker 1: would you go? Right? And in the past few years, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, in the Trump era that you know, a
Speaker 1: lot of athletes were asked to go to the White House,
Speaker 1: and as you know that all of them decided not
Speaker 1: to go to the White House. You know. And for me,
Speaker 1: you know, I always go back to this Tupac quote.
Speaker 1: He goes, why wouldn't I go to the go to
Speaker 1: the White House? He goes, I have an opportunity to
Speaker 1: talk to the man in charts, to talk to the
Speaker 1: president and tell him the problems of the inner city
Speaker 1: and all the problems that I have, Um, that are
Speaker 1: you know in this world that he has an opportunity
Speaker 1: to change. He's well, so why wouldn't I want a
Speaker 1: one on one conversation with the man? Right? And so
Speaker 1: for our athletes to turn down the opportunity to talk
Speaker 1: to Trump and you know, not to get political, um,
Speaker 1: but if there's even an opportunity to have him think
Speaker 1: about some of the things that he's doing and some
Speaker 1: of the things that he will do in the future,
Speaker 1: I feel like goes the same way with his excellency
Speaker 1: in Saudi Arabia. We have an opportunity to you know,
Speaker 1: possibly help him make the right decisions going forward. You know,
Speaker 1: it's like the movie Inception, Like we're in it right now,
Speaker 1: you know, in a dream and a dream and a
Speaker 1: dream and like we're in it and we're so close.
Speaker 1: I mean, how awesome would it be if ten years
Speaker 1: from now, right, the human rights gets better? And you know,
Speaker 1: and this this is me just you know, being very optimists.
Speaker 1: Right ten years from now the human I was getting better, Um,
Speaker 1: just from on a scale between like um, you know,
Speaker 1: women's rights to uh just everything you know, I don't
Speaker 1: want to name too many, too many things, but um,
Speaker 1: and for them to change, and then asking him ten
Speaker 1: years from now saying you know what changed your mind
Speaker 1: and him saying possibly. You know, I had to played
Speaker 1: a golf round with Dustin Johnson and he bothered by it,
Speaker 1: and you know, I feel like I needed to do
Speaker 1: something like that would be pretty cool. Al Right. I
Speaker 1: don't know if that's going to happen, but the fact
Speaker 1: that there's even an opportunity for that to happen, I
Speaker 1: feel like, you know, there's a good I think, you know,
Speaker 1: the risk outways reward. I mean, what are your thoughts? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it's funny to imagine Phil Nicholson setting the
Speaker 1: global financial markets during the pro am at auring the
Speaker 1: ear of his excellency, but Ian I wouldn't put it
Speaker 1: past Phil for sure. And yeah, I mean again it's
Speaker 1: it's a very philosophical question. I mean, could sport be
Speaker 1: an agent of change? I think most people would say yes, um,
Speaker 1: And uh, you know I did. I did a big
Speaker 1: story on Messiage Eerie. He was the GM for the
Speaker 1: still Is of the Raptors, and you know, he founded
Speaker 1: this thing called Giants of Africa and it was he's
Speaker 1: he's brought hundreds and hundreds of kids over to play
Speaker 1: a college basketball from from the continent of Africa, and
Speaker 1: some of them have gone on play pro ball, many
Speaker 1: of have gotten into executive positions and done great things
Speaker 1: in their lives have nothing to do with with basketball.
Speaker 1: And you know that that's that's he's one NBA title
Speaker 1: as a GM, but that that organization means more to
Speaker 1: him than anything, and it really has affected the trickled
Speaker 1: out effect from how all these these kids lives of
Speaker 1: change and what it's done for their families when it's
Speaker 1: done for their own kids, and it's very powerful. And
Speaker 1: of course there's many other examples, whether it's youth on
Speaker 1: coorus or it's the first tea. I mean, I think
Speaker 1: I think generally we accept that sports can be an
Speaker 1: agent of change. So, um, the question is it's kind
Speaker 1: of place like how to your radio evolved through sport?
Speaker 1: I mean, it's an unknown and I think you have
Speaker 1: to be a little bit of a dreamer too at
Speaker 1: the current moment, but it's you just have to chip
Speaker 1: away with these things. So maybe the answers yes, and
Speaker 1: maybe live golf plays role, and um, but the you
Speaker 1: know that that is that is a hotly contested idea
Speaker 1: in this context, but I you know Tupac is right
Speaker 1: on some level. You got to go talk to the
Speaker 1: man and hear what he has to say. This side note,
Speaker 1: I was the first guy on the Sleeves High basketball
Speaker 1: team to discover n w A. Yes, no, hip hop
Speaker 1: has always been But to me, those guys were incredible journalists.
Speaker 1: Like when they when they taught listeners everywhere about about
Speaker 1: real life was powerful and so um, you know, there's
Speaker 1: there's interacting the different cultures and and seeing the world
Speaker 1: is a powerful tool. And uh so whether it's music
Speaker 1: is also like I don't see it going if you
Speaker 1: were if you were played Devil's advocate. I don't see
Speaker 1: it going the other way, you know, I don't see
Speaker 1: his excellency having a conversation with Phil all of a
Speaker 1: sudden being so piste off it. He's going to raise
Speaker 1: gas prices and you know, do what he's doing in
Speaker 1: his country ten tenfold, right, and so um, you know,
Speaker 1: I see it from both both directions. One of the
Speaker 1: things that I was also thinking about is when people
Speaker 1: criticize the players who are suing the PGA tour, right
Speaker 1: and so you know, there's a narrative of you know,
Speaker 1: I would be okay if they just didn't sue the
Speaker 1: PGA Tour. Uh. The my response to that is, they're
Speaker 1: not suing the tour for monetary damages. They're not suing
Speaker 1: them for millions and millions of dollars. They're just doing
Speaker 1: them for the right to play golf. And so my
Speaker 1: rebuttal to that is, you know, we were allowing football players.
Speaker 1: Tony Romo played in in one of the events. You know,
Speaker 1: Jerry Rice played in a professional event. Um, we had
Speaker 1: a retired tennis player, Marty Fish just playing the three
Speaker 1: M Open here a few months back. And so we're
Speaker 1: allowing non golfers, right, non professional golfers to compete in
Speaker 1: a professional golf event, taken away a spot from you know,
Speaker 1: someone who could be eligible or would be willing, h
Speaker 1: more deserving of that spot. But yet we won't invite
Speaker 1: Dustin Johnson or Brooks Kepco or Bryson de Shambo into
Speaker 1: a golf tournament where you can't invite Kevin nah who's
Speaker 1: a two time past champion of the Shriners Hospital Open,
Speaker 1: And um, they're just fighting for their right to be
Speaker 1: invited into a golf tournament and so um, we'll find
Speaker 1: out later or early next year of how that pans out,
Speaker 1: and so um. You know that's just the big one
Speaker 1: of the big topics as well of kind of where
Speaker 1: we are right out involves Yeah, I mean the the
Speaker 1: battle between not only the tours but also players within
Speaker 1: the system. Like let me read a quote that you had,
Speaker 1: um that I thought was really interesting and I want
Speaker 1: to get into this. He said, the secret meeting with
Speaker 1: Tiger and Rory set a president that the top twenty
Speaker 1: players can get whoever they want from the tour, get
Speaker 1: whatever they want from the tour. So what's topping the
Speaker 1: other of our tour from getting together and doing the
Speaker 1: same exact thing as Rory and Tiger and saying the
Speaker 1: top twin players can go play there on tournaments, but
Speaker 1: the rest of the tour us stand together and we
Speaker 1: want more benefits. I feel like a portion of a
Speaker 1: hundred million dollars could have gone to making the tour
Speaker 1: great rather than going the top twenty these little things
Speaker 1: that irritate the rest of the membership to the point
Speaker 1: there's a lot of animosity between the halves and the
Speaker 1: have not. I would call it the haves and the
Speaker 1: have mores. But then if I had to redo that Stamon,
Speaker 1: that's the one thing I people are clearly, you know,
Speaker 1: it's and when you're doing an interview, just stuff comes
Speaker 1: out of your you know, and I should have said
Speaker 1: haves and have more. But but the larger point is
Speaker 1: true that the PGA Tour has now created this cast
Speaker 1: system where the top twenty guys or maybe a few more,
Speaker 1: but the elite have access to incredible abounts of money
Speaker 1: and everyone else is getting some benefit. But even the
Speaker 1: half million dollars, you have to play really bad at
Speaker 1: not to make a half million dollars and earnings. Even
Speaker 1: even a crappy year, you're gonna scrape it around and
Speaker 1: make something close to that. So that's not really free money.
Speaker 1: That's just an advance. And it's helpful for sure, especially
Speaker 1: for young players are struggling guys. You can you can
Speaker 1: pay your coach and you can like it has benefit,
Speaker 1: there's no question, but it's not really free money. Like
Speaker 1: the half million dollars isn't isn't a half million dollars net?
Speaker 1: You know what I mean. It's like we have two
Speaker 1: hundred fifty dollars worth of expenses, and then we're also
Speaker 1: having big taxes on that. So it's like all said
Speaker 1: and done, some of the guys are making just over
Speaker 1: a hundred hundred fifty thousand dollars if you're making up
Speaker 1: five dollars tour, So that that also stem from a
Speaker 1: little bit of um frustration, I guess from the things
Speaker 1: behind the scenes that fans and reporters are not aware of.
Speaker 1: So I'll give you an example. Um, in NAPA this
Speaker 1: year as well as the Sanders and Farms golf tournament,
Speaker 1: we have to pay for our own rental car for
Speaker 1: the week, right, and so two tournaments that are non elite, right.
Speaker 1: I don't ever remember going to a player's championship, a
Speaker 1: bay Hill even Tigers tournament and having to rent my
Speaker 1: own car, right, And it's for me is that they've
Speaker 1: set they've set a standard on the PGA tour. You know,
Speaker 1: when you fly in, we're gonna have transportation ready for you,
Speaker 1: will have a courtesy car, whether it's you know, a
Speaker 1: BMW Lex's Cadillac or even sometimes where they do rent
Speaker 1: cars for us, but they pay for it and they
Speaker 1: have it waiting for us outside. It's very union for us, right, um.
Speaker 1: And so to have a standard on the PGA Tour
Speaker 1: and to be and have that standard taken away from you,
Speaker 1: I feel like it's a blow to the tour. But
Speaker 1: to also question why, you know, and it's it's a
Speaker 1: it's a question about you know, who's paying it. You know,
Speaker 1: where's the money coming from? You? We can't afford the sponsor,
Speaker 1: can't afford the term, and can't afford having courtesy cars.
Speaker 1: But then seeing a big chunk of money, a hundred
Speaker 1: million dollars going to the top twin golfers in you know,
Speaker 1: on our tour as far as popularity, right, I mean,
Speaker 1: I always bring it back to um when you know,
Speaker 1: I've heard people say, well, if you want a part
Speaker 1: of the hundred million dollars, just play better. Right. It's
Speaker 1: it's a meritocracy. Just play better, Just play better. It's
Speaker 1: funny that Patrick Cantlay played the best out of any
Speaker 1: PGA Tour golfer the year that he won the FedEx Cup,
Speaker 1: won the Super Bowl of Our of our tour and
Speaker 1: didn't get a dollar from the pit program. And so
Speaker 1: what part of play better fixes that part that portion
Speaker 1: of you know, where that money is allocated towards or
Speaker 1: who it's allocated towards. Um, So to me, it's like,
Speaker 1: I just I don't understand it, you know, Like, well,
Speaker 1: so my question to you is like, how how widespread
Speaker 1: is the discontent among let's say the rank and file
Speaker 1: the PG tour, the guys who are not in the
Speaker 1: top twenty. I mean, is there a lot of unhappiness
Speaker 1: with the current state and the changes of the tour
Speaker 1: have made. Uh So, when when you have a couple
Speaker 1: of people negotiating for the twenty guys, right, and the
Speaker 1: twenty guys, isn't just the twenty guys, it's the thirty
Speaker 1: two forty guys that could potentially move into the top twenty, right,
Speaker 1: and so for these forty guys, for a few individuals
Speaker 1: to make the rules for the entire group, there are
Speaker 1: is gonna be um some disagreements on how how far
Speaker 1: they feel like they should go. So, for example, they
Speaker 1: for the new pit program they're obligated to play in
Speaker 1: these twenty events. Well, there's I can tell you that
Speaker 1: without naming names, at least five to ten guys that
Speaker 1: don't really agree with that. They're like, well, I don't
Speaker 1: want to be obligated to play in these elevated events.
Speaker 1: I want to be able to pick my own schedule.
Speaker 1: That's why, you know, we're independent contractors and you know,
Speaker 1: being able to do what I want to do. If
Speaker 1: it's my daughter's graduation week, I don't want to have
Speaker 1: to play in this golf tournament, which, um, you know.
Speaker 1: Then then it comes like the next process is, well,
Speaker 1: what's the penalty for missing this event? Well, not only
Speaker 1: do you not get pit money or you get a
Speaker 1: reduced amount, there should be some kind of consequence because
Speaker 1: like we're providing so much money up front that we're
Speaker 1: almost guaranteeing a certain product, and if you don't provide
Speaker 1: that product, like what are the repercussions? So now we're
Speaker 1: at a point where like we're still conflicted on what
Speaker 1: this new product will be. Um, but yeah, there are
Speaker 1: a lot of people that are not happy with the
Speaker 1: new product that Um, we're in that secret meeting and
Speaker 1: I can only called secret meeting. Is that's because kind
Speaker 1: of what it's been labeled these days. Oh no, it's
Speaker 1: it's a great term. Um, but you mentioned I mean
Speaker 1: this is actually something that that that Phil has been
Speaker 1: harping on forever is that you know, the superstars drive
Speaker 1: the game, but they're they're outvoted by the rank and file.
Speaker 1: There's a lot more guys who are you know, fifty
Speaker 1: a D fifty on the money list than there are
Speaker 1: top players, and that that there's the everyday tour player
Speaker 1: has an outsized influence because there's just more of them.
Speaker 1: And so obviously what Tiger and Rory did in their
Speaker 1: secret meeting kind of put a lie to that where
Speaker 1: the superstars can exert their influence. But you mentioned, you know,
Speaker 1: the silent majority. I mean, why don't you guys unionize?
Speaker 1: That that's an idea that big and you know, golf
Speaker 1: is really the only sport where the players don't have
Speaker 1: a union to so why not, right, I mean, that's
Speaker 1: that's a that's a million dollar question right there. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's there are people that have considered, but golf is
Speaker 1: such an individual sport it's hard to get all you know,
Speaker 1: I think there's over two hundred, three hundred members. To
Speaker 1: get all three hundred members to agree on a certain
Speaker 1: topic and to make everyone happy, because you have to
Speaker 1: in order for that to be effective, you know, Rory
Speaker 1: would need to agree on certain topics of that Um, gosh,
Speaker 1: I don't. I'm only saying his name. I'm not calling
Speaker 1: him out. But like Great Chalmers for example, right, like
Speaker 1: they would have to agree on kind of how the
Speaker 1: money is being distributed. And obviously one is you know,
Speaker 1: possibly number one in the world, and Great Chalmers is, um,
Speaker 1: you know, playing in a few events because he's has
Speaker 1: conditional status and so UM, it's very hard to get
Speaker 1: all three people on the same page. Um. Also it's
Speaker 1: very expensive. And but also, UM, that's what the purpose
Speaker 1: of the board is, the Player Director board as well
Speaker 1: as the pack, and we're supposed to represent um, the
Speaker 1: tour in the fairest way that we can. And you know,
Speaker 1: for the most part, I feel like they're doing a
Speaker 1: good job. It's just something throws me a wrong way
Speaker 1: when we the pack as well as the Player Advisory
Speaker 1: Board agree on a certain topic and then Rory Tiger
Speaker 1: and the secret meeting happens and throws a wrench into
Speaker 1: our plans, and all of a sudden, everything that we've
Speaker 1: been working on the previous you know, two or three
Speaker 1: months is scrapped from the board, and all of a
Speaker 1: sudden it's like, hey, no, it's you know, the secret
Speaker 1: out of the secret meeting. This elite group of golfers
Speaker 1: want something different, So now we're going to change what
Speaker 1: we we're going to come out with and satisfy what
Speaker 1: they want. Does that make sense? Yeah, it's almost like
Speaker 1: it's almost like two meetings going on, one of the
Speaker 1: actual players, then one with the commissioner um and the
Speaker 1: secret secret meeting. Yeah. No, I mean, those guys just
Speaker 1: kind of subverted the entire process. And Monahan because he
Speaker 1: wants to keep his job, like he said, Okay, great
Speaker 1: rubber stamp that I love that this policy, Like, um,
Speaker 1: it was a very unusual situation. That's why it was
Speaker 1: so interesting. I mean, and even we can all agree
Speaker 1: that Tiger Woods has had an incredible influence on the sport. Um,
Speaker 1: but does it make sense for him to have any
Speaker 1: any say in the future of the tour because he's
Speaker 1: not even going to participate in it really, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's clear that his his playing days are are very limited.
Speaker 1: So it's funny that Tiger, of all people, is uh
Speaker 1: is in charge in some ways when you know he
Speaker 1: has very few events in his future. So and so
Speaker 1: it's also like, you know, we've created this pit to
Speaker 1: prevent guys from going to the Live Tour to give
Speaker 1: them more guaranteed money UM and Tiger had won the
Speaker 1: pit last year without ever playing in an adulter it
Speaker 1: and so it's like a royalty going to him of
Speaker 1: like this is, you know, thank you for all that
Speaker 1: you've done over the years, and we're sorry that you
Speaker 1: you feel like you've having capitalized financially on all the
Speaker 1: opportunities these last twenty years, and so we're gonna make
Speaker 1: that up to you by giving you this guaranteed money
Speaker 1: UM in hopes of you staying on the PGA Tour
Speaker 1: and you continuing your legacy. But you know, no other
Speaker 1: sports league does that, Like I don't think NBA pays
Speaker 1: Michael Jordan's or Kobe Bryant or Kobe Bryant, Shaquille O'Neal,
Speaker 1: all these like star athletes over the years and say hey,
Speaker 1: thank you that what you've done over the years. Here's
Speaker 1: you know, a percentage of our company here moving forward
Speaker 1: for you know, for at the end of time. Like
Speaker 1: to me, it doesn't make any sense. It sounds at
Speaker 1: bit like socialism. I don't know how that's going to
Speaker 1: play in the locker room. And you're like, guys, who
Speaker 1: watch Fox News. I don't like socialism. We're just giving
Speaker 1: Tiger free money for doing nothing, man. But you know,
Speaker 1: on the hindsight, I do agree that, you know, Tiger,
Speaker 1: we wouldn't be here, we wouldn't be playing for the
Speaker 1: amount of money that we're playing for if it wasn't
Speaker 1: four tigers. So yes, rewarded with something um but to
Speaker 1: give away a hundred million dollars a year, I feel
Speaker 1: like it's a lot how much unhappiness is there among
Speaker 1: the tour membership that you know, all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: Live shows up in the tour just turned to spick
Speaker 1: it on and millions and millions of dollars are flowing
Speaker 1: out of the reserve fund and and they're squeezing sponsors.
Speaker 1: It's like wow, you know, I mean, I think it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: we just found twenty million dollars in the couch cushions.
Speaker 1: Guys like sorry, we we've been sorry, been sitting on
Speaker 1: this for all these years. Here here's the money you deserve.
Speaker 1: Like that's that was the one of the biggest, you know,
Speaker 1: biggest things to come out of the whole Live this
Speaker 1: whole experiment that we're in is that you know, we're
Speaker 1: being trained and taught and you know, uh molded to
Speaker 1: dislike the Live Tour, But as a p G a
Speaker 1: tour player, what they've done to our tour this year,
Speaker 1: next year, moving forward is amazing. Right, We're playing for
Speaker 1: more money now now that when we've ever have. We've
Speaker 1: accelerated our growth into the purses to be able to
Speaker 1: keep our players right, We've come out with a hundred
Speaker 1: million dollar pit program for the top players on our tour,
Speaker 1: and so you know, you can kind of argue without
Speaker 1: the Live Tour, we wouldn't have all these things. We
Speaker 1: would still be playing for the purses that grow incrementally
Speaker 1: from Latin the previous year, but we wouldn't be playing
Speaker 1: for a hundred million dollars in the pit. We wouldn't
Speaker 1: be playing for million dollars in the players champe ship,
Speaker 1: we wouldn't be playing for twenty million dollars in tigers
Speaker 1: event um at Riviera. And so you know, in hindsight,
Speaker 1: they've actually made our tour a lot better. Oh yeah, well,
Speaker 1: I mean that's that's Phil Nicholson's whole that's his whole
Speaker 1: position is like that, from even before Live launched, was
Speaker 1: that the tour is not doing enough for the players.
Speaker 1: And you know, I think in some ways he's been
Speaker 1: vindicated and all this. But what is your take on
Speaker 1: on the the rise and fall and rise again of
Speaker 1: Phil Michelson through through this whole process. Yeah, that's a
Speaker 1: man um personally. You know, I've been able to play
Speaker 1: with Phil several times on the PGA Tour. I think
Speaker 1: my personal experiences with him have always been great. You know,
Speaker 1: same with Bryce and same with Brooks. Um. Those guys
Speaker 1: they speak their mind there. They're your non traditional PGA
Speaker 1: Tour member that if they have any problems with the
Speaker 1: tour that they are free to speak their mind and
Speaker 1: kind of uh tell you where they're coming from and
Speaker 1: back it up with real facts. Um. And you know,
Speaker 1: it just kind of makes you see the other side
Speaker 1: of of professional golf, right. I Mean, there's this whole exercise.
Speaker 1: There's good and bad about the p of what happens
Speaker 1: on the PGA Tour pre you know, Michaelson and the
Speaker 1: Live Tour. You know, I don't think there was one
Speaker 1: add thing that the PGA Tour has done ever, right,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like it's like they were
Speaker 1: the Golden child. Like nothing that they do can ever
Speaker 1: be you know, talk down upon or like that. They're
Speaker 1: giving so much charity, they're changing people's lives. You know,
Speaker 1: they're putting so much money uh into players pockets and
Speaker 1: you know, in charities and foundations and all that. But
Speaker 1: then now there's like a different side of it. And
Speaker 1: now it's like you're starting to see things unfold for
Speaker 1: both tours, but also you know the players that are involved.
Speaker 1: Do you think Jay Monahans survives all of this? I,
Speaker 1: as a as a current board member, I cannot answer
Speaker 1: that question. Um. Maybe in a couple of months from now,
Speaker 1: when my time's up, you know, I can probably give
Speaker 1: you a solid answer. But UM, you know, as far
Speaker 1: as we know, you know that the tour is still surviving,
Speaker 1: we're having record numbers. UM, we have kept ah the
Speaker 1: majority of the players on tour in the stars that
Speaker 1: we needed to keep. Um. And so from that side
Speaker 1: of it, you know, yeah, he stays on on the
Speaker 1: as commissioner. Um. You know, I'm sure you can argue
Speaker 1: and a lot of players have argued the other side
Speaker 1: of it, UM that you know, could he have done more? Possibly?
Speaker 1: But when you're going against Greg Norman and the Saudi
Speaker 1: Golf Fund, and you know, basically an unlimited reserve that
Speaker 1: they're sitting on. You know, it's hard to compete against
Speaker 1: an entity like that. Yeah, but the tour has done
Speaker 1: a good job competing. I mean, all the things we've
Speaker 1: talked about like they they've really the money is flowing now.
Speaker 1: If if these changes that have happened the last few months,
Speaker 1: if they had happened a year earlier before Live had launched,
Speaker 1: you probably could have held onto some of your players,
Speaker 1: right And to me, that that's where the Monday Morning
Speaker 1: quarterbacking comes about, is that Monahan didn't seem to take
Speaker 1: the threat seriously enough or he didn't act fast enough,
Speaker 1: like because clearly the mental change can be brought to
Speaker 1: the PG Tour quickly. It happened in a week. You know,
Speaker 1: there was a meeting in Delaware and then boom or
Speaker 1: the tour championship and here's all the new changes, like
Speaker 1: it happened almost overnight. So if you've done that a
Speaker 1: year earlier, I think you absolutely could have blunted liz
Speaker 1: momentum in a huge way. Am I write about that absolutely?
Speaker 1: I mean the one of the biggest critiques about what
Speaker 1: we've done, as well as the decisions that Jay has
Speaker 1: made is that we're all we're very reactive. You know,
Speaker 1: We're waiting for them to make a move and then
Speaker 1: we react to it, and we wait for them to
Speaker 1: make another move and then we react to it. And
Speaker 1: so you're absolutely right. I mean, if we had come
Speaker 1: out with this pit program, uh two years earlier, you know,
Speaker 1: could we have saved uh some of the players. Possibly?
Speaker 1: I mean, we we don't know. It's it's you know, kindsight, um,
Speaker 1: but the fact that we've lost some of the some
Speaker 1: of these big stars, um, you know, and in hindsight
Speaker 1: also that I think if we would have come out
Speaker 1: with this the pit program a few us earlier, guys
Speaker 1: like Dustin Bryson Brooks would have gone anyways, just their
Speaker 1: number would have been exponentially larger, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: because they basically have to outbid the PGA tour and
Speaker 1: keeping me play these players, and they have an unlimited fund.
Speaker 1: And so if dja's career earnings were projected to be
Speaker 1: two d million dollars after the pit program and the
Speaker 1: person increases, I'm sure the Saudis would have just random
Speaker 1: a check for four million dollars and just not even
Speaker 1: bat and I are grass prices would have gone up
Speaker 1: a little bit. Pricely would have gone up a little bit.
Speaker 1: But you know that's just how that's just how it is, right,
Speaker 1: And so that's a dark thought that our gas prices
Speaker 1: are tied to recoup their money. Let's be got est, right,
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's if they were going to come out
Speaker 1: with this tour. Eventually they were, they were ready. It
Speaker 1: was time. Um, and all they need to do is,
Speaker 1: you know, what's what's everyone's number? Right, Alan, what's your number? James,
Speaker 1: what's your number? You know, everyone's got a number, and
Speaker 1: they just keep bidding back and forth until someone reaches
Speaker 1: that number. And then you start telling everybody, hey we
Speaker 1: got so and so on board. Um, you know who's
Speaker 1: who's next? You know they're rulling right this checks I
Speaker 1: mean thinking about the number. That's interesting is and I
Speaker 1: think this is one of Monahan's miscalculations, is that he
Speaker 1: might have overvalued what the PGA Tour means to some
Speaker 1: of its players. Like to me, I would say, if
Speaker 1: I'm James Hant, I want to go back to Riveria
Speaker 1: for the rest of my life. I want to go
Speaker 1: back to Quail Hollow. These are the greatest weeks of
Speaker 1: your life instead of playing you know, in the middle
Speaker 1: of nowhere in Saudi Arabia, but no fans like um,
Speaker 1: you know, the energy at the l A Open is
Speaker 1: off the charts, and and you've got every time you
Speaker 1: walk up the eighteenth fairway, you're gonna remember what you
Speaker 1: did and like, to me, that has so much value.
Speaker 1: But obviously, you know, maybe we over romanticize this because
Speaker 1: a lot of the players were just happy to take
Speaker 1: the money and walk away from the tour and their
Speaker 1: favorite tournaments and you know, the volunteers that they've known
Speaker 1: for twenty years and the houses they stayed and all
Speaker 1: these things they get written about in the local media,
Speaker 1: which it sounds almost like b s now, like you
Speaker 1: know what, now that really matters if if, if the
Speaker 1: check arrives. So I mean, how let's just let's just
Speaker 1: say that that live made you a great offer, whatever
Speaker 1: that number is. I mean, how hard would it be
Speaker 1: for you to walk away from the tour life that
Speaker 1: you know, Uh, honestly, it wouldn't be that hard to
Speaker 1: walk away. And I'll tell you why, is that it
Speaker 1: was very mind blowing when uh, the year that I
Speaker 1: got injured, I had a Parsley torn Trisu on them.
Speaker 1: So having a great career up until that, I never
Speaker 1: lost my car to two wins on the PGA tour,
Speaker 1: injured my right elbow and all of a sudden, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm on I'm on medical UM. I had to wait
Speaker 1: six months to start getting medical checks um and being
Speaker 1: able to being ready to come back and playing in
Speaker 1: the confines of a medical UM status and being able
Speaker 1: to keep my card that year was extremely difficult. And
Speaker 1: so understanding that any injury that I have and just
Speaker 1: as well as any sport um, could be the end
Speaker 1: of my career, and that I'm disposable, that basically it's
Speaker 1: next man up, someone else comes up. Um, No one's
Speaker 1: really calling me and saying, hey, James, we really need
Speaker 1: you on this tour or tour struggling without you, right,
Speaker 1: But understanding also that um, Tiger Woods, Uh, he's injured
Speaker 1: and the tour is still surviving and doing very well,
Speaker 1: that they're just gonna find the next person, you know,
Speaker 1: like if we run in cycles, and so UM, knowing
Speaker 1: kind of that any week now, any year that my
Speaker 1: PGA tour could be could be over, whether I don't
Speaker 1: play well or I'm injured to have guaranteed money is
Speaker 1: something that's really difficult to turn down. UM. So I'm
Speaker 1: biging on myself that you know, I'm gonna stay healthy
Speaker 1: for the next ten years, play on the Champions Tour
Speaker 1: and do all that. Um. But if there's a number
Speaker 1: out there that's basically gonna pay all that money. Um,
Speaker 1: and I gotta be very careful with my words, but
Speaker 1: pay all that money up front to where if I
Speaker 1: do get injured, that I will still have, um, the
Speaker 1: life that I live. I mean, you can see my house.
Speaker 1: It's not a you know, it doesn't look like a
Speaker 1: fifteen million dollar house, right. I got the smallest house
Speaker 1: on the block. Um. You know I got a two
Speaker 1: thousand and fifteen Henda Genesis in the garage. Like I'm
Speaker 1: not driving Lamborghi's and stuff like. So, ten million dollars
Speaker 1: is life changing. So but for a guy like Dustin,
Speaker 1: you know, a hundred million dollars might not be life
Speaker 1: changing because he already has a hundred million dollars, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. So, UM, I feel like each
Speaker 1: person has their number of what really is life changing, um,
Speaker 1: and then being able to walk away from the game.
Speaker 1: I feel like it's a legitimate question that a lot
Speaker 1: of PGA Tour players are asked. Yeah, well that's well said,
Speaker 1: and I appreciate your candor. And uh, you know, I
Speaker 1: think because golfers have a long career, as the fans,
Speaker 1: don't think too much about how how much injury can
Speaker 1: can factor and decision. But no doubt for for Brooks
Speaker 1: and Bryson, that was certainly a factor. I mean they've
Speaker 1: they've had serious injuries and you hapen to wheels out tours.
Speaker 1: I mean that was the most expensive back injury in history, right.
Speaker 1: I mean he's gonna with the FedEx Cup maybe and
Speaker 1: drops to thirty and who knows what his future looks like.
Speaker 1: So they definitely I think that that's a that's absolutely
Speaker 1: legitimate concern, even even if it's not really forefront for
Speaker 1: for golf fans. But right, and it's it's also like
Speaker 1: to be able, let's say a couple of years from now,
Speaker 1: you know, if Brooks or Bryson had stayed on the
Speaker 1: PGA Tour and they were to have gotten injured and
Speaker 1: they have a life or career ending injury, right, They're
Speaker 1: going to regret it, probably for a really long time.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to say the rest of your life,
Speaker 1: because they do have you know, I've made some really
Speaker 1: good investments, um of not just taking the money, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. Um, And so there's it's hindsights
Speaker 1: always twenties. Yeah, if you're gonna stay healthy for the
Speaker 1: next twenty years, by all means, stay on the PGA tour.
Speaker 1: Love to play on the PGA tour, um, and just
Speaker 1: make a legacy for yourself. But if there's even that
Speaker 1: one percent chance that you feel like you're gonna get
Speaker 1: injured or you have had injuries in the past, it's
Speaker 1: easier to to take the guaranteed money then and take
Speaker 1: a chance on your body. Yeah. All right, Well I've
Speaker 1: had a chance to talk about these things, and you know,
Speaker 1: Twitter is so reductionists and it's hard to fully express yourself.
Speaker 1: But I think the fans of home listening to this
Speaker 1: conversation will will have a more a greater appreciation for
Speaker 1: your thoughtfulness and and that you you have ruminate on
Speaker 1: these things in a pretty deep way. So and one
Speaker 1: thing that I would like to, you know, to say
Speaker 1: is that I absolutely love the PGA tour. Right, I
Speaker 1: get a lot of Twitter hate saying, you know, Why
Speaker 1: don't you just join live? Why don't you uh, you know,
Speaker 1: it seems like you hate the PGA Tour so much,
Speaker 1: and it's like, I don't hate the PGA Tour. It's
Speaker 1: like I play on the p G a to or
Speaker 1: you know, how can how can someone hate the PGA
Speaker 1: Tour and play on the PGA Tour and play full
Speaker 1: schedule of twenty eight events? To me, it just I
Speaker 1: don't understand it, right, And so, UM, I love what
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour is doing. There's so many great stories. Um.
Speaker 1: I am grateful for the opportunities that I've gotten, the
Speaker 1: two tournament wins that I've had, and hopefully more throughout
Speaker 1: my career being able to qualify for, um, you know,
Speaker 1: a Wryder Cup or a President's Cup. Definitely some goals
Speaker 1: of mine that I have. UM. But I can be mad,
Speaker 1: I can and I can love the PGA Tour and
Speaker 1: enjoy playing on a PGA Tour, but also question some
Speaker 1: of the things that they're doing in the background. Right,
Speaker 1: I can question why money is going not more towards
Speaker 1: you know, the average to above average PGA Tour player
Speaker 1: and only concentrated on the top players. And I understand
Speaker 1: the whole aspect of it. But you know I can,
Speaker 1: I can question these things, and I you know, I
Speaker 1: have an opinion. I have a right to do that.
Speaker 1: But it doesn't mean that I Tomorrow, I'm just gonna
Speaker 1: call up it and say, hey, you know, I hate
Speaker 1: the PGA tour. I want to leave. You know, I
Speaker 1: love playing on tour, I love supporting these events. I
Speaker 1: love um the fans that show up for it. And
Speaker 1: you know, I plan on staying here for a really
Speaker 1: long time, so you're gonna have to deal with me
Speaker 1: for a long time. A part of loving something is
Speaker 1: you want it to be better. And like you know,
Speaker 1: patriotism is not just blindly following what you're told. It's
Speaker 1: it's questioning authority and it's advocating for change. And I mean,
Speaker 1: you can you can love America and you can, but
Speaker 1: you can want it to be better. It's the same
Speaker 1: with anything. So um, I think I think that's a
Speaker 1: very important point for you to make. So UM, Well,
Speaker 1: this this was this was an edifying conversation. I feel
Speaker 1: like we should do this a little more often. Let's
Speaker 1: let's try, and let's let's say next time there's a
Speaker 1: there's a there's a reason to continue this this this discussion.
Speaker 1: Let's get back on here because I think your perspective
Speaker 1: is is definitely important for fans to hear. So if
Speaker 1: James Han, thank you for doing this Fire Drill podcast,
Speaker 1: will we'll wrap it up here. This is Alan Ship Night.
Speaker 1: We will be back in your ears soon. And uh
Speaker 1: and speaking for all golf fans and James, I think
Speaker 1: we hope we play well. Make that Rider Cup team.
Speaker 1: I mean that would that would be sweet. It's uh,
Speaker 1: you've had it. You've had quite a journey through golf,
Speaker 1: so I'm glad it's gonna keep going. Thank you very much.
Speaker 1: Thanks for giving me an opportunity. You just gotta express myself,
Speaker 1: um and not on the confines of Twitter, So thank you. Really. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I enjoyed it a bit big and I played to win,
Speaker 1: made a fortune, win my ship game and I ran
Speaker 1: the table. Never thought I could fall them. The winter
Speaker 1: time hit me like a cannon ball. And now I
Speaker 1: can't shake this losing the street. Every road I take
Speaker 1: is a dead end street. I got thoughts in my head,
Speaker 1: can't give try and nothing what I'm thinking about about
Speaker 1: in my head can get them out and try and
Speaker 1: not to think what I'm thinking about,