Speaker 1: Hey everyone.
Speaker 2: Hi you guys. It's Jackie Goldschneider and Jenfestler.
Speaker 3: And we are two Jersey Jays. And I love today's topic,
Speaker 3: so do I.
Speaker 2: And it's really relevant.
Speaker 1: Timely because we're going to talk about female friendships in
Speaker 1: middle age. And it's something that's so important to me
Speaker 1: because I rely on my female friend.
Speaker 3: I feel like you get.
Speaker 1: Something out of your friendships at this age that you
Speaker 1: can't find from your relationship with your husband, or your
Speaker 1: children or your parents.
Speaker 2: Yes, I think that's true. I think you know we're
Speaker 2: we are different ages. I hate to admit not that far,
Speaker 2: not well, but I mean I think friendships for me,
Speaker 2: that the importance of friendship has changed, you know, since
Speaker 2: I was my daughter's age, even high school, right, It
Speaker 2: like it takes on a different I think friendships female
Speaker 2: wants to take on a little bit of a different
Speaker 2: meaning as you go through the different stages in life.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, And I think that you and I are
Speaker 1: in a very different situation then maybe like other people,
Speaker 1: because we not only have our real life friendships, but
Speaker 1: we have this show world of friendships. And we will
Speaker 1: not go into any specifics, of course you don't need to,
Speaker 1: but the dynamics of friendship in our work life is
Speaker 1: so different.
Speaker 2: It is very different. It's very complicated, it's.
Speaker 1: It's sad, it's it's sad. It can be great, but
Speaker 1: it's also it's so public.
Speaker 2: Correct, that's the Yeah, that's the big difference. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: think that you know, we're going to get more into it.
Speaker 2: But my friend Marcia always says, friendships are shared experiences,
Speaker 2: Like you get close to people that you there's they're
Speaker 2: more than that, right, But a lot of times when
Speaker 2: you make new friends, it's because you guys are sharing something.
Speaker 2: So in our case, we share this crazy journey that
Speaker 2: we're on with housewives and you know, the other women
Speaker 2: on the cast that we've become friends with with or
Speaker 2: maybe you're not friends with anymore. But it's so much
Speaker 2: about shared experience. But when it then it crosses the
Speaker 2: line right into like mutual respect, love, sharing more than
Speaker 2: just this crazy experience, but also your lives. But the
Speaker 2: show kind of, you know, it pushes it pushed us
Speaker 2: all together. At least this has been my experience, and
Speaker 2: so you're forced to kind of, you know, get to
Speaker 2: a deep level with these women that maybe you didn't
Speaker 2: know before. So it's like these friendships that happen very quickly,
Speaker 2: and sometimes they also end very quickly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, it's difficult when you're on a
Speaker 1: TV show together the fights often you kind of have
Speaker 1: to go into detail about what's driving you apart, and
Speaker 1: then a fight just turns so like big and toxic
Speaker 1: before you even know it. And then you have all
Speaker 1: of social media weighing in, which doesn't happen in real life.
Speaker 1: You have people choosing sides and people saying that you're
Speaker 1: the worst or you're the best, and it's it's makes
Speaker 1: it really difficult to maintain a strong friendship now, not
Speaker 1: our show, but I have seen friendships on The Housewives
Speaker 1: that I thought were so strong, I mean.
Speaker 3: Fall apart so badly of course, that I don't.
Speaker 1: You know, I used to think that my housewife friendships
Speaker 1: were so important. But I'm I feel much closer to
Speaker 1: my real life friends, of course, just because I've seen
Speaker 1: too many friendships fall apart so easily over very little things.
Speaker 2: I mean, I feel and I think you do too,
Speaker 2: but I feel very bonded to women on this cast.
Speaker 2: Not in the best way always, but because my oh
Speaker 2: friendships outside of the show not only can they not
Speaker 2: really understand being in it, but they don't want to
Speaker 2: and I don't want to burden them with talking about
Speaker 2: the show all the time. And you know, it's like.
Speaker 1: Well, we're also trauma bonded.
Speaker 2: Yes, you know, right right right, we are.
Speaker 1: I mean there's something very specific and small about our world,
Speaker 1: and so it's no surprise that we have we share
Speaker 1: that bond, but and that we like to talk to
Speaker 1: each other about it. What's the problem, though, is when
Speaker 1: the relationship doesn't go beyond that. Like I've had some
Speaker 1: relationships on this show. I've had some that have transcended
Speaker 1: and have become very real to me, and I do
Speaker 1: love those relationships. But I'm talking about the ones that
Speaker 1: were just based on the show. And I think in
Speaker 1: housewife World I've seen over the years, I mean, even
Speaker 1: before I was on it, I used to watch it.
Speaker 3: A lot of people that leave the show they don't
Speaker 3: end up staying close with the people from the show.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so listen, I don't know if you guys know
Speaker 2: this actually should probably mention it, but when Jackie and
Speaker 2: I started the show, we we're really committed to not
Speaker 2: discussing the ins and outs of the Housewives, and I
Speaker 2: think partially because there are so many podcasts that already
Speaker 2: do that, but also because we, you know, want to
Speaker 2: talk about the parts of our lives that are relevant
Speaker 2: and have nothing to do with it, like the fact
Speaker 2: that we're both at this point where we are quote
Speaker 2: unquote middle aged, and so this is something that becomes,
Speaker 2: i don't know, more important less important as you get older. Friendships,
Speaker 2: I think we probably have a lot in common. We're
Speaker 2: going to talk about our feelings about our female friends.
Speaker 2: And also there are some differences.
Speaker 1: So back when I was a journalist, which I still
Speaker 1: consider myself a journalist, but I used to write a
Speaker 1: column on motherhood for the newspaper every Saturday, and it
Speaker 1: was basically about being a young mom, a new mom,
Speaker 1: And something I had noticed is that a lot of
Speaker 1: new moms were having trouble making friends in their new
Speaker 1: suburban environment or even in like city, like it's hard
Speaker 1: to make friends. And you know, I looked back at
Speaker 1: that when I was thinking about what we would talk
Speaker 1: about today, and I feel like it's a lot easier
Speaker 1: to make friends when you're a new mom.
Speaker 3: Because you have those.
Speaker 1: You have those classes, you have those Mommy and me
Speaker 1: and the baby classes, and everyone is in the same boat,
Speaker 1: and you just naturally become friends with the parents of
Speaker 1: your children's friends. You know.
Speaker 2: It's also trauma bonding, like you mentioned, right, it's like
Speaker 2: the fear that goes along with being a new parent, right, But.
Speaker 1: There's also that built in community. Yeah, that when you're
Speaker 1: middle aged and your kids are grown and you find
Speaker 1: yourself with a lot more time alone, it's it's almost like, well,
Speaker 1: where would I even begin to meet somebody?
Speaker 2: I find that the friends that I have my closest
Speaker 2: friends in terms of like living here in Jersey, and
Speaker 2: are the friends that I made when my son was little,
Speaker 2: as opposed to my daughter who's only two years older,
Speaker 2: and I made friends with you know, her friend's parents,
Speaker 2: but different. I made this like very I was very
Speaker 2: lucky to meet this group of women when you know,
Speaker 2: my son was I don't know, we're at mommy and me,
Speaker 2: so whatever, two three years old, and it stuck. So
Speaker 2: I think sometimes with friendships you make through the kids
Speaker 2: doesn't always stick because when the kids get older, maybe
Speaker 2: you don't have as much in common. I don't know
Speaker 2: if you've found that, you know I have, I certainly
Speaker 2: have those old friendships too that just didn't make it
Speaker 2: through for whatever reason. But uh yeah, that's that is
Speaker 2: probably the easiest way I've ever made friends besides maybe
Speaker 2: high school.
Speaker 1: Right, So, but it makes you wonder. So you and
Speaker 1: I are both very lucky. Like I know that you
Speaker 1: have a lot of friends. I don't have quite as many,
Speaker 1: but I have about like six in my town that
Speaker 1: I consider super super close.
Speaker 2: Friends, which needs more than that, right So I don't
Speaker 2: need more than that right now, I have more than.
Speaker 1: My sorority sisters are still some of my best friends.
Speaker 1: And like, I have a lot of kids, and I
Speaker 1: have a great husband, so and I have my show friends.
Speaker 3: So I'm like, I'm good, you know, But I know
Speaker 3: a lot of people.
Speaker 1: Who struggle, especially if you move, like a lot of
Speaker 1: people downsize they move to a new area, you know.
Speaker 1: So I want to talk about not only how you
Speaker 1: can make new friends as a middle aged woman, but
Speaker 1: also why it's important, why it's important to have friends
Speaker 1: in your life at this age, what they can offer
Speaker 1: that's different, yeah than your other relationships.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I do think, as I mentioned a minute ago,
Speaker 2: that the priorities are different in terms of friendships. I
Speaker 2: think that it shifts from like, yeah, you just had
Speaker 2: babies and you need somebody to call to say, oh
Speaker 2: my god, you know he's not eating or she's I couldn't,
Speaker 2: she's swallowed up whatever it is, right, it's like a
Speaker 2: lot of that. You're so it's such a you're in
Speaker 2: this whole new world, and so you bond so easily
Speaker 2: over that experience, and then that passes, and then all
Speaker 2: of a sudden you have teenagers and you could also
Speaker 2: bond of course, you know, over that. And then not
Speaker 2: for you, but for me, the kids leave. So it
Speaker 2: is did you lose a lot of friends when your
Speaker 2: kids left? No? I think at that point I was
Speaker 2: friends with people that where it wasn't just based on
Speaker 2: the kids. I mean in high school. The kids now
Speaker 2: are driving and you know, they're barely talking to you anyway,
Speaker 2: so you have there's not as much to bond over,
Speaker 2: and it becomes about also, I think, reinventing yourself a
Speaker 2: little bit like Okay, so who am I now that
Speaker 2: I'm not this you know mother? And I'm obviously you're
Speaker 2: always a mother, But when the kids stop needing you
Speaker 2: so much, right, what does that look like? So? Now
Speaker 2: what does my life look like and it doesn't necessarily
Speaker 2: include these women or these men who you relied so
Speaker 2: completely on when the kids were younger to you know,
Speaker 2: just validate you.
Speaker 1: And right, did you find that some of those women
Speaker 1: you didn't have anything in common with once you're kids
Speaker 1: were out of the picture.
Speaker 2: Yes? I did still women that I you know, like
Speaker 2: and care about, but we just didn't share as much
Speaker 2: and have as much to talk about.
Speaker 1: Right, So yeah, I mean middle age is you know,
Speaker 1: it just creeps up on you and one day you
Speaker 1: find yourself looking in the mirror and you're like, wow,
Speaker 1: those lines just don't stop coming as much as you
Speaker 1: try to fight them, and you see.
Speaker 3: The grays and you feel your age.
Speaker 1: I remember one time I was with a friend in
Speaker 1: a car and we saw this woman and she was
Speaker 1: a counselor at a camp where it was when my
Speaker 1: kids were younger, and I said, I can't tell if
Speaker 1: she's old or young. She was one of those people
Speaker 1: that could have been like thirty or could have been
Speaker 1: like sixty. And my friend said, she's old. Look at
Speaker 1: her knees. And I never forgot that because sometimes I'll
Speaker 1: look at my knees and I'll be like I'm not
Speaker 1: fooling anyone because no matter how much botox I get,
Speaker 1: other parts of me will give it away.
Speaker 2: Oh, I mean, if we're going to go there, my
Speaker 2: knees are not the knees of a fifty six soon
Speaker 2: to be fifty six year old, but there the knees
Speaker 2: of been ninety five Jackie. I am not this is yes,
Speaker 2: this is not me just being so. I don't know
Speaker 2: what kind of weight gain, weight loss pull at no
Speaker 2: exercise path I've been on, but these knees of mine.
Speaker 2: And I had a surgery that was like for my leg,
Speaker 2: didn't you?
Speaker 3: Yeah, how'd that go?
Speaker 1: I know we're getting a little off. Somber Jen had
Speaker 1: a surgery. She never liked to show her her leg.
Speaker 2: I still don't because the surgery that I had was
Speaker 2: sort of like a body lift and it only lifts
Speaker 2: like mid thigh up, so I would say, and the
Speaker 2: doctor told me that. So it really was like, now
Speaker 2: I still don't want to wear shorts. What's the difference.
Speaker 2: My knees are hanging to my ankles? You know, it
Speaker 2: is what it is, but that you can also bomb.
Speaker 2: I feel like you bond sometimes with women. So what I'm.
Speaker 1: Saying is like. The point is that, like you suddenly
Speaker 1: wake up and you're like, I am not young anymore,
Speaker 1: and like the things that used to bond you to
Speaker 1: other young moms are gone, and slowly every day they disappeared.
Speaker 1: There's another kid leaving for college, someone else, doesn't you
Speaker 1: feel you know, we've talked about this before about the
Speaker 1: invisibility of middle aged women and how you know you're
Speaker 1: not considered traditionally like sexy anymore, and that part of
Speaker 1: you is gone. Your children are grown, so the motherhood
Speaker 1: part of you. You know, you're always a mom, but
Speaker 1: that's gone. That being needed is gone. You know, you've
Speaker 1: really settled into your marriage and like a lot of
Speaker 1: what made you feel useful as a younger woman is gone.
Speaker 1: And it's not gone, it just changes very drastically. And
Speaker 1: I think again with shared experience. That's why female friendship
Speaker 1: at this age for me, is so important, because you
Speaker 1: don't just have to hold those feelings inside. You can
Speaker 1: be with other people who are going through them at
Speaker 1: the same time.
Speaker 2: I one hundred percent agree. I will tell you that
Speaker 2: at yes, at your age, I felt exactly the same way,
Speaker 2: and at almost fifty six. There are times though where
Speaker 2: I really don't want new friends. I don't want more friends.
Speaker 2: I don't I find that people in general get on
Speaker 2: my nerves. So I mean it's like to make a
Speaker 2: new friends and bring you know, I'm a little more
Speaker 2: closed off, and I if I talk to my mom,
Speaker 2: who is eighty two, she'll say, like, I hate people.
Speaker 2: I love dogs, and that's it. But I have these
Speaker 2: relationships and I can't imagine my life without them. Do
Speaker 2: I want more? I don't know. I don't know. I'm
Speaker 2: pretty good like and I don't have that.
Speaker 3: I used to have so.
Speaker 2: Many friends, and you almost like what I felt like
Speaker 2: when I was younger. I gathered friends, you know, like
Speaker 2: in high school, you just you want to be popular.
Speaker 2: And I don't know. It's embarrassing to admit that that
Speaker 2: would still have been going on for me as I
Speaker 2: got older. But so many people, right, so many friends,
Speaker 2: so many parties. I just don't want that. I just
Speaker 2: want meaningful friendships now, and I want them to be
Speaker 2: real and I want to be able to share real
Speaker 2: experiences and you know, the difficulties of my life and
Speaker 2: not paint this picture of how my life is perfect.
Speaker 2: And let's talk about how your life is perfect.
Speaker 1: And you know, it's funny that you say that about
Speaker 1: high school because one of the tips that the therapist
Speaker 1: back then, who I interviewed for this for the article,
Speaker 1: one of the tips that she gave me is not
Speaker 1: to carry old wounds with you into new relationships. And
Speaker 1: it struck me because I had a very very hard
Speaker 1: time in high school. And I write about this a
Speaker 1: lot in my book, but I moved when during my
Speaker 1: freshman year of high school, and I have a brother.
Speaker 1: He's disabled. He was held back a year. He's a
Speaker 1: year older than me, so we came in the same age.
Speaker 1: Everyone assumed we were twins and I was overweight. It
Speaker 1: was a brand new school. Everyone already had their friends,
Speaker 1: and I was. I mean, I just had the hardest,
Speaker 1: hardest time. And not only was I completely ignored, but
Speaker 1: people were very vicious to my brother, and I just
Speaker 1: was not only like an outcast, but I was also
Speaker 1: like busting up everyone's good time every time they wanted
Speaker 1: to make my brother do something stupid. It was just
Speaker 1: a shit show beginning to end, and I couldn't wait
Speaker 1: to get out of there. But I carried those wounds
Speaker 1: with me for a long time, and I have absolutely
Speaker 1: no problem admitting that I had, that I've struggled with
Speaker 1: mental issues and that a lot of therapy has gotten
Speaker 1: me through tons of them. But I have no shame
Speaker 1: in admitting any of this. So if any of you
Speaker 1: want to come after me, feel free. It doesn't bother me.
Speaker 2: I don't think anyone's coming out to you.
Speaker 1: But the issue was that I carried that with me
Speaker 1: and when I got to when I moved from the
Speaker 1: city into the suburbs, my default was to assume that
Speaker 1: everybody already had people they liked and no one needed
Speaker 1: me to be their friend, and that if they were
Speaker 1: being nice to me, it was because they just were
Speaker 1: being nice, and that nobody was really interested. And it
Speaker 1: held me back, you know, And until I could let
Speaker 1: go of all of that, I really wasn't able to
Speaker 1: fully immerse myself in friendships that felt even an equal.
Speaker 1: It's only been the last really like the last few years,
Speaker 1: that I've come out of that and really been like, no,
Speaker 1: I'm so valuable to these relationships and like they love
Speaker 1: me as much as I love them. It always felt
Speaker 1: one sided to me. So I think it's really important.
Speaker 1: I think that that holds not whether you're a new
Speaker 1: mom or whether you're a middle aged woman. You cannot
Speaker 1: carry your past into your present because it will hold
Speaker 1: you back.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I also had a difficult childhood, and
Speaker 2: I think that I made friends I owas was the
Speaker 2: good time girl, right. I was also overweight until I
Speaker 2: was I don't know, in my late twenties. I was
Speaker 2: very heavy and ill up and down whatever. And I
Speaker 2: never had a boyfriend, which is, you know, which I
Speaker 2: wanted so desperately. But I always had friends around me,
Speaker 2: and I was always like the funny one and the
Speaker 2: crazy one. And I think that was probably partially because
Speaker 2: I just needed validation so badly outside of what was
Speaker 2: happening at home. And I also went to a performing
Speaker 2: arts high school, so a lot of that traditional you know,
Speaker 2: the peer pressures and the jocks versus the nerds. Like
Speaker 2: we were all nerds. We were all like theater nerds,
Speaker 2: music nerds, dancing nerds. So it was way easier. So
Speaker 2: I actually have my three very best friends from high school.
Speaker 2: We meet once a year because I went it was
Speaker 2: in Texas, so I'm actually going to see the next month.
Speaker 1: We do it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's great. But so I think that like I've
Speaker 2: always been somebody that had an easy time meeting people
Speaker 2: and making friendships, but they weren't. They haven't always been
Speaker 2: as satisfying. Sometimes I make I get, you know, there's
Speaker 2: a difference between like gathering people and calling them friends
Speaker 2: and actually have having real connections, which is what I
Speaker 2: want now, that's all I want. I don't need to have,
Speaker 2: you know, go to a million different birthday parties and
Speaker 2: you know that sort of childish attitude of wanting to
Speaker 2: have so many I just need, especially now, not as many.
Speaker 2: And the ones that really make me laugh, the ones
Speaker 2: that I feel like I can be real with that
Speaker 2: don't judge me, And the ones that are truly about love.
Speaker 2: I love you, you love me. We want the best
Speaker 2: for each other.
Speaker 1: Right. So, something that I've noticed is that the my
Speaker 1: stronger friendships are the ones that don't rely on being
Speaker 1: couple friends. Because when you rely on being couple friends,
Speaker 1: I have to wait for Evan to want to make plans.
Speaker 1: So Evan is not nearly as social as I am,
Speaker 1: right right, I love being with my friends. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: love going to dinners and going out. And he's very
Speaker 1: very content, I mean understandably, he's got three teenage boys
Speaker 1: who love to be around him, and that's his built
Speaker 1: in friend group. So he's got a few of his
Speaker 1: own friends. But I find that when we need to
Speaker 1: go to like dinner together in order for me to
Speaker 1: be with a woman, he it's more difficult because I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm relying on him and my conversations have to include him, you.
Speaker 3: Know, and I adore events obviously obviously, but.
Speaker 1: You know, then I have to wait for him to
Speaker 1: find a date when he can make a plan.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, Jeff's friends are primarily completely because they're
Speaker 2: the men that I are involved with, the women that
Speaker 2: I'm friends with, right, So he's I.
Speaker 1: Mean, so his friends are your friend's husbands.
Speaker 2: Yes, Well, let me just say this. So he has
Speaker 2: a whole life in terms of like his work and
Speaker 2: those circles that he's in, and I choose to know
Speaker 2: nothing about it because I find his whole whatever he's
Speaker 2: doing for a living is just bores me to no end. So, like,
Speaker 2: but I know that he has like this network of people,
Speaker 2: and he works in this you know, big office, and
Speaker 2: he has so he does have colleagues, and he does
Speaker 2: have friends from work. He certainly does, but not people
Speaker 2: that we see on a regular right, or that he's
Speaker 2: like not going out to bars with right. So, so
Speaker 2: the friends that we socialize with, he's made friends with
Speaker 2: the husband's you know, through me. So, but it's not Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's not always like Jeff doesn't always sync up with
Speaker 2: the guy like I am syncing up with the girl.
Speaker 2: It's not always like that. It's like a little it's
Speaker 2: not the same dynamic. Right. It's me and whatever friend
Speaker 2: I have being alone together. It's a different thing.
Speaker 3: Right, let me ask you.
Speaker 1: So there are times when I will text with a
Speaker 1: friend and even a very close friend, and we try
Speaker 1: to see each other, and it just you know, my
Speaker 1: kids are still very needy. None of them drive you
Speaker 1: yet they're all you know. I'm still living like sort of,
Speaker 1: I'm like caught between young mom life and older mom life.
Speaker 2: Ye.
Speaker 1: And I'm still so busy, and I find it really
Speaker 1: hard to get together with my friends. And I wonder
Speaker 1: when when my kids do leave and I do have
Speaker 1: all that time, am I gonna want to be with
Speaker 1: friends all the time? Or do you find yourself just
Speaker 1: cherishing alone time?
Speaker 2: Uh? I always like being alone. I just always have.
Speaker 2: I I It's funny because people say, like when the
Speaker 2: kids leave, they become so bored. I have this one friend,
Speaker 2: Bonnie in particular, who's always like calling me, I'm bored.
Speaker 1: What are you doing.
Speaker 2: I'm like, well, I'm not buny, I know, right, So
Speaker 2: I'm like, well, I'm not bored actually, and I'm alone
Speaker 2: and I don't want to hang out with you.
Speaker 3: Oh that's something.
Speaker 2: It has been really great also about when you get older,
Speaker 2: like I have friends, will you know you want to
Speaker 2: do this? And I go nope, And I don't even
Speaker 2: have to give an excuse. I just don't want to No,
Speaker 2: I don't want to go. I don't want to meet you.
Speaker 3: Get it better at that.
Speaker 1: I'm not bad, I'm not saying.
Speaker 3: And it's something.
Speaker 2: It's not an insult to whomever. It's just I don't
Speaker 2: want to go out and hang out and chit chat
Speaker 2: right now. I want to be alone. But wait, what
Speaker 2: was the question you?
Speaker 1: Like, like, do you find yourself now that you have
Speaker 1: more time where you're less tied to doing things for
Speaker 1: other people? Do you find yourself wanting to do things
Speaker 1: for yourself or do you find yourself wanting to spend
Speaker 1: that time with friends?
Speaker 2: Depends on the day. I mean, I again, because of
Speaker 2: also what we what we do our work. I think
Speaker 2: it's we're on a lot of the time, right, So
Speaker 2: I like the decompressed time, and I do again, I
Speaker 2: feel very blessed to have these really close, wonderful friendships.
Speaker 2: But I don't need to be in a constant you know,
Speaker 2: let's go to lunch, let's get together. It happens naturally.
Speaker 2: When it happens, it's great. But I'm not you know, No,
Speaker 2: I can be in my house doing my thing, you
Speaker 2: know a lot.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you find that your your relationships with your
Speaker 1: children have become more friend or do you And of
Speaker 1: course I kill I call my kids my best friends,
Speaker 1: but obviously I'm not going to talk to them like
Speaker 1: I do my best friends.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: Do you find that your relationship takes on more of
Speaker 1: a friend type of relationship or are you still just mom?
Speaker 2: I mean that's a whole other episode, right, But I've
Speaker 2: I would tell you they're never really, it's not the same.
Speaker 2: It's not the same as having a friend. It's just
Speaker 2: I'm it's you. No, Yes, of course they're like friends
Speaker 2: now that they're older and we can like enjoy the
Speaker 2: same things and you know, enjoy the same shows and
Speaker 2: hang out, but there's always going to be that like
Speaker 2: she's my annoying and mom and like I'm always like
Speaker 2: watching and thinking my head is spinning with if they
Speaker 2: did this, what does that mean? If she unhappy? Now?
Speaker 2: Is that what? Like, it's always going to be. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's attachment to them that is not as free, right.
Speaker 2: And Plus with with actual friends, you could badmouth your kids,
Speaker 2: so which is nice, you'll do that to their face.
Speaker 1: So one of the things, so I did some some
Speaker 1: research for this because I felt like, of course we're
Speaker 1: going to talk about how to make new friends in
Speaker 1: middle age. I got to give some tips, right, So
Speaker 1: when you're a new mom, they'd say, go join the
Speaker 1: mommy and me classes, and you know, it's sort of
Speaker 1: like dating, and it still is when you're in middle age.
Speaker 1: It's like you don't have those natural mommy and me classes.
Speaker 1: One of the tips was to make a new hobby
Speaker 1: and find a class that revolves around that hobby.
Speaker 2: People always give that advice to people that are looking
Speaker 2: for that are that are dating, right, like meet someone
Speaker 2: at a pottery class. That never worked for me, probably
Speaker 2: because I don't I don't really have them any hobbies,
Speaker 2: per se anyway or things that I'm so I was
Speaker 2: never like, yeah, I want to go learn to cook
Speaker 2: or I want to go to a sidebar.
Speaker 3: What what happened to your guitar lessons? Are you still
Speaker 3: doing that?
Speaker 1: Well?
Speaker 2: I wrote a song recently, No you did it, Yes
Speaker 2: I did. But when I talk about piano accompaniment, yes,
Speaker 2: we'll talk about it after Yes, that's that's also for
Speaker 2: another day. Amazing, thank you.
Speaker 1: So this is the thing, so it said, like find
Speaker 1: an art class or a yoga class or something. It
Speaker 1: is hard in middle age and I'm starting to feel
Speaker 1: this when like you're like, I want to It sounds good.
Speaker 3: In theory, but everything is a little more exhausting.
Speaker 1: Well okay, so now yes, right, So, like even thinking
Speaker 1: about what kind of class you'd want to be in,
Speaker 1: finding the class, signing up for the class, actually going
Speaker 1: to the class, and sticking with the class are it
Speaker 1: feels sometimes like a lot.
Speaker 2: I mean, I have more time to do that kind
Speaker 2: of thing, and I don't but than you do. But
Speaker 2: I think it's also a matter of like you're in
Speaker 2: a class and it's almost it probably feels like because
Speaker 2: again I don't do a lot of classes per se,
Speaker 2: but it's almost like you're trying to pick someone up.
Speaker 2: I mean, there's so much that goes along with that, right,
Speaker 2: Like do I ask her for her number? Is she
Speaker 2: going to think I'm weird? I don't want to come
Speaker 2: on too strong all of that, so, but I will
Speaker 2: say I have felt like that, but now that I'm older,
Speaker 2: I don't anymore. I find that I I don't care
Speaker 2: like I bond with people way more easily.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 3: You're very good.
Speaker 1: You're a natural bonder, like you naturally make people feel
Speaker 1: drawn to you. Well, is what I see.
Speaker 2: Okay, So I've thought a lot about that because I do.
Speaker 2: People do say that to me, and I think it's
Speaker 2: because I'm to a fault. My mother would tell you,
Speaker 2: but I'm an open book and I will tell you
Speaker 2: what's really going on with me very easily. I sometimes
Speaker 2: regret doing it right if you do that with the
Speaker 2: wrong people. But when you open yourself up and you're
Speaker 2: willing to talk about your crap and your struggles and
Speaker 2: all the ways in which you know you're not perfect
Speaker 2: and you I have found my whole life that other
Speaker 2: people will do the same.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: So if I'm going to be open with you and
Speaker 2: tell you the reality of me. It always seems to
Speaker 2: come back to me right, and that just starts you
Speaker 2: start to bond with people over that, like not I'm
Speaker 2: not I don't. I probably have, but I try not
Speaker 2: to have any pretense about me, like this is here
Speaker 2: who I am. I'm also very self deprecating and this
Speaker 2: is what's going on with me. I'm not saying I
Speaker 2: can only bond with people over you know, difficulties and tragedies.
Speaker 2: But I think that when you're really like honest and open,
Speaker 2: it's way easier to meet people.
Speaker 1: Back to what you said about like being awkward and
Speaker 1: asking for Yeah, so that was another thing. It's like
Speaker 1: you have to and it's not as awkward as you think,
Speaker 1: because if you and I are in this situation where
Speaker 1: we're like finding it difficult to well, you know, you
Speaker 1: have all your friends, but like in general, I think
Speaker 1: a lot of middle aged women find themselves a little
Speaker 1: bit lonely. And I don't think that there's anything wrong
Speaker 1: with asking another woman if.
Speaker 3: They maybe want to get lunch one hundred percent.
Speaker 2: I mean I could not agree with that more. The
Speaker 2: thing is, and I always I used to say this
Speaker 2: when I was a when I was a matchmaker, like
Speaker 2: there's not you don't there's not that much at stake,
Speaker 2: Like all you can do is get rejected. It doesn't
Speaker 2: who cares. Like it's a numbers game, right, And if
Speaker 2: you don't click with one woman and you go to
Speaker 2: lunch and it's just hideous and it's so boring, you
Speaker 2: move on. I mean, if you're trying to make friends,
Speaker 2: don't get you can't get too deep about it, right,
Speaker 2: and it's all like everything else. I feel like it
Speaker 2: takes a certain amount Yes, you have to like it
Speaker 2: takes a certain amount of energy. Hi. You know, some think, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: by the way, you know, we should get together. I
Speaker 2: would love to like have whatever it is. That's kind
Speaker 2: of hard to do, but then you get more practice.
Speaker 1: I've exchanged numbers and said let's get together with many
Speaker 1: people over the past few years, and I've probably reached
Speaker 1: out to about two percent of them. I don't know,
Speaker 1: There's just something in me. Sometimes I just don't feel
Speaker 1: like it would really be that creative a fit. Other
Speaker 1: times I just don't want to bother, you know, But
Speaker 1: how do you feel? I'm curious because some of those
Speaker 1: women have had been very different in age than me.
Speaker 1: And I wonder sometimes what's your take on being friends
Speaker 1: with somebody who's a lot younger than you.
Speaker 2: I mean, honestly, it has besides the show, and I mean,
Speaker 2: you know what I'm talking about, it doesn't happen that often,
Speaker 2: you know, I don't. I think most of my and
Speaker 2: you and I are not far apart in age, right,
Speaker 2: So that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about like, no, I'm.
Speaker 1: Talking about like I'm in my I'm turning forty eight
Speaker 1: in two months, and I'm thinking of like people in
Speaker 1: their early thirties.
Speaker 2: I just that just hasn't been my path. So, I
Speaker 2: mean I have relationships with like, for instance, some of
Speaker 2: the women who I have, who I've worked with through
Speaker 2: the show, whether they are, for instance, a makeup person. Okay,
Speaker 2: so the woman who does my makeup, who is just
Speaker 2: beyond my grace. It's like the most beautiful, the most
Speaker 2: beautiful in face I know. But she's also we just
Speaker 2: clicked and why old she? I mean she has just
Speaker 2: had a baby, so thirty something. I mean, it's a
Speaker 2: big differences. It's twenty you know, I'm fifty six. So
Speaker 2: but we were together so much, you know, and working
Speaker 2: together and I just fell madly in love. And you know,
Speaker 2: we still don't we're not going out as couples, but
Speaker 2: I have this real love for her and this we
Speaker 2: have this banter and it's just it's so great.
Speaker 3: When you see each other or do you talk on
Speaker 3: the phone.
Speaker 2: We talk, I mean, not as much. She's obviously very
Speaker 2: busy now that she's makeup artists to the stars, but
Speaker 2: like you know, it's just this special bond that we
Speaker 2: have where I feel like I could tell her anything,
Speaker 2: and so that doesn't happen that often, I think with
Speaker 2: you know, although you know what, I'm gonna give it
Speaker 2: one more caveat. I've met a lot of the guys
Speaker 2: that I know. They're now a lot of the gay
Speaker 2: guys that I have become friends with that I've worked
Speaker 2: with because of the show, and I become they're they're younger, right,
Speaker 2: you two. You know this, and yeah, because they work
Speaker 2: at NBC and they were up and coming. Yes, but
Speaker 2: they're also I made a lot of younger friends, a
Speaker 2: lot of these, a lot of gay guys, and like
Speaker 2: really close friendships where I'm talking to them all the time.
Speaker 2: So you know what, I change it all. I I
Speaker 2: let me go back, I do have friends, they're younger,
Speaker 2: not as many women as men for whatever reason.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I get that, but so yeah, so it is
Speaker 1: okay to ask someone for their phone number and then
Speaker 1: to reach out. And to that point, I feel like
Speaker 1: with the friends that you already have.
Speaker 3: Those friendships.
Speaker 1: And I've known this from personal experience. Yeah, there's always
Speaker 1: those memes about like you're my friend no matter how
Speaker 1: much time has passed between us talking. We can act
Speaker 1: like it's you know, like no time has passed in theory, great,
Speaker 1: but you really have.
Speaker 2: To nurture your friendships if you want them to stay strong.
Speaker 2: I have lost friends over not nurturing friendships. I think
Speaker 2: that you're right, but I also think like I have
Speaker 2: my two best college friends who I'm actually going to
Speaker 2: see in September, and I don't talk to them every day.
Speaker 2: I don't talk to them every month, but when we're together,
Speaker 2: it's like we just exactly like where we left off.
Speaker 2: For whatever reason, it just I'll tell them anything. I
Speaker 2: just it's not a every day you know, we're not
Speaker 2: going through the same things. Ones in California, ones in
Speaker 2: Philly and different lives, you know, so it's not we
Speaker 2: don't nurture those as much as maybe we should or
Speaker 2: I wish we could. But I have had friendships that
Speaker 2: have faded because, yeah, I wasn't putting the energy into them, right.
Speaker 1: I think maybe the friendships that date back further have
Speaker 1: a little more leeway.
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe not talk is off egg, right, I have
Speaker 3: the same.
Speaker 1: I try to see my college friends pretty often, but
Speaker 1: I think more of the friendships of my town. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if you let them getty, if them straight away from you,
Speaker 1: they Maybe that's true. Maybe because the friendships you make
Speaker 1: when you're a little younger, you're sharing something that you're
Speaker 1: never going to go through again, high school, college, you know.
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, I hope that my daughter has has those.
Speaker 1: She's made some really amazing friendships in college, and she
Speaker 1: had some wonderful friends in high school. But it's such
Speaker 1: a difficult time right when you're young and you're struggling,
Speaker 1: you don't know who you are, and there's so much nonsense.
Speaker 1: But I think you're very lucky if you carry friendships,
Speaker 1: specifically from high school and really into adulthood.
Speaker 2: I don't think it always happens. I hope that my
Speaker 2: daughter has and will can as a random question anything.
Speaker 1: Do you find that friends who have different political leanings
Speaker 1: than you, without going into any specifics, do you find
Speaker 1: yourself less drawn to being their friend?
Speaker 2: So I lost one of my best friends also who's
Speaker 2: also a family member, but like best friends, like my person,
Speaker 2: one of the people that we stopped speaking for like
Speaker 2: a year and a half over politics. It sucked and
Speaker 2: it's such a hard time right now. It is so hard.
Speaker 2: So I will tell you that it's happened to me.
Speaker 2: Thank god we got back and we have very strict
Speaker 2: boundaries now and now we're, you know, closer than ever.
Speaker 2: We will not discuss politics, although mine are changing these days.
Speaker 3: A lot of people are yes.
Speaker 2: So and now when I meet people, I don't, I
Speaker 2: don't think I bond maybe what do you think? You know?
Speaker 1: I went out to dinner with five girlfriends maybe like
Speaker 1: a few weeks ago, and it turned to politics, and
Speaker 1: three of us were on one side and two were
Speaker 1: on the other. And it actually got a.
Speaker 2: Little bit he did I know, It really.
Speaker 1: Did, and it got uncomfortable, It got a little heated.
Speaker 1: We were all trying to convince each other that they were.
Speaker 3: Wrong, and so sad. That's just the way it work.
Speaker 1: We stopped, we stopped talking about it because it just
Speaker 1: wasn't it wasn't productive. Yeah. Yeah, the world sucks right now.
Speaker 2: You think it's really it's just a scary place to be.
Speaker 1: It is, especially you know, I know Jews are very
Speaker 1: small part of the population, but it's scary as a
Speaker 1: Jewish person.
Speaker 2: Well, I will tell you that. You know, I've now
Speaker 2: been to a lot of fundraisers events and I've found
Speaker 2: myself making friends because of that common.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's another common job, yes.
Speaker 2: Right, that kind of trauma bonding and like new friends,
Speaker 2: people that are doing things in support of Israel and
Speaker 2: that I'm connecting to and starting to become friends with,
Speaker 2: which is nice.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's one thing. It's like whether you're famous,
Speaker 1: so you're not famous, you're wealthy, poor, no matter what.
Speaker 1: If you're like a Jewish person right now, a Jewish
Speaker 1: woman with children that you worry about all these things,
Speaker 1: you have that shared connection. It doesn't matter where you
Speaker 1: are in life. It's like, yeah, but we're both sharing
Speaker 1: this and the pain that like people are going through
Speaker 1: and all the anti Semitism in the country right now.
Speaker 1: And you know, I even had to change my last
Speaker 1: name on my Uber account and like, no, not saying
Speaker 1: anything about Uber, but like, I'm not going to get
Speaker 1: in a car with a random person with the last
Speaker 1: named Gultchenader on their screen and not know, because there's
Speaker 1: just so much hate out there right now, you know,
Speaker 1: and the fact that I have to do that in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four it's horrific.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know. I tell my son to put a
Speaker 2: star of David inside his shirt when he's walking in
Speaker 2: certain areas, and it's just which is all wrong anyway?
Speaker 1: Anyway, So here's another really interesting one. So this article
Speaker 1: gave another tip.
Speaker 3: To maybe reach out to people who you.
Speaker 1: Were once friends with, and that one really me thinking,
Speaker 1: because I have many people in my life who I
Speaker 1: was once friends with. I don't have I mean, aside
Speaker 1: from on TV, I really don't have any friendships that
Speaker 1: have fallen apart because of a big old fight. They really,
Speaker 1: I really don't. My sister is the one contentious, like
Speaker 1: non existent relationship in my life, and other than that,
Speaker 1: friendships have mostly just faded. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I would say that that's mainly true for me. One
Speaker 2: friendship in particular that was I was so close to
Speaker 2: this woman for so many, many, many many years and
Speaker 2: I think that we got to a point where we
Speaker 2: just weren't making each other happy, we weren't bringing each
Speaker 2: other joy, like, we were just at different ends of
Speaker 2: whatever spectrum, and it just stopped working. And it was
Speaker 2: years and years and years of friendship. And I'll always
Speaker 2: wish her well and I'll always have love in my
Speaker 2: heart for her and her family, but it just wasn't working,
Speaker 2: you know. And I don't know how to exactly describe that,
Speaker 2: but I think we mutually we both view out that also. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think we both just knew it, and we knew
Speaker 2: that we were maybe happier unfortunately without each other than
Speaker 2: we were, you know together.
Speaker 1: Well you know, so, but that tip got me thinking, like,
Speaker 1: there are certain people in my life that I do
Speaker 1: sort of miss, you know, but then there's others that
Speaker 1: we we sort of drifted because it wasn't right anymore.
Speaker 1: But the idea of that that you can get something
Speaker 1: back that you sort of miss, it got me thinking
Speaker 1: about like whether or not that's a good idea, you know.
Speaker 1: So what the tip said was to think about, first
Speaker 1: of all, why the friendship faded, right, just go and
Speaker 1: reach out, you know, So if it faded because you
Speaker 1: guys were just two different people that didn't enjoy each
Speaker 1: other anymore. Then, like, maybe that's one that you leave alone.
Speaker 1: But I think that this could be a really beautiful thing.
Speaker 1: I think it could be a great way to bring
Speaker 1: a relationship back into your life that you miss. Right,
Speaker 1: So it's said to think about whether that relationship would
Speaker 1: enhance your life at this stage, and then maybe send
Speaker 1: a simple message like hey, you popped into my head,
Speaker 1: was thinking of you. How are you right? And you
Speaker 1: can you know, you know see the vibe you get
Speaker 1: back and you sort of feed off of that, you know.
Speaker 2: I think so much about this as you're talking, is
Speaker 2: just about courage, right, It's about like the same thing
Speaker 2: I guess with you know, meeting someone romantically. It's like
Speaker 2: you have to get past the fear of rejection. It's okay,
Speaker 2: like you may get rejected. And so what I think
Speaker 2: it's easier.
Speaker 1: With friends than with relationship because, you know, relationship you're
Speaker 1: looking for the one. You know, a friend could be
Speaker 1: one of many. Yeah, you know, there's a lot less
Speaker 1: pressure for that person to be absolutely perfect for you, right,
Speaker 1: they just have to be somebody who enhances your life.
Speaker 1: That's what I want at this age. I want relationships
Speaker 1: that are fun, that are mutual, and that enhanced my life. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't, I don't know. I let every day I'm
Speaker 1: less and less inclined to have anything toxic in my life.
Speaker 1: And I know, obviously you shouldn't want toxic in your life,
Speaker 1: but sometimes the toxic ones are the most exciting. Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: and I just don't find myself drawn to that.
Speaker 3: Well how about this?
Speaker 2: How about you know at certain ages, Like now, it's
Speaker 2: funny because we just had a wedding this past weekend.
Speaker 2: So one of my friend's kids got married. Beautiful wedding,
Speaker 2: by the way, shout out to Joe Weinstein, but anyway,
Speaker 2: and her gorgeous daughter Carly. But anyway, how weird was it?
Speaker 2: So we're at this amazing wedding, and there are so
Speaker 2: many quote unquote kids there, right, these two that got married,
Speaker 2: they have a ton of friends, and so the place
Speaker 2: is packed with I guess late twenty somethings, thirty somethings,
Speaker 2: and then we're the adult table. So now I'm with
Speaker 2: my friends at this adult table, and I can't believe
Speaker 2: I'm saying this, but like, we don't want to be
Speaker 2: as close to the band, like because and also like
Speaker 2: then there's so they have this after party, right and
Speaker 2: going in we're all like, oh my god, yes, and
Speaker 2: we're gonna stay for the after party and we're gonna
Speaker 2: get you know, fucked up, and we're gonna by about
Speaker 2: I don't know, eleven thirty. I think all of us
Speaker 2: were like, Okay, the cake is cut, love you, most
Speaker 2: beautiful event ever got to go. So but the things
Speaker 2: that we enjoy now doing.
Speaker 3: Together, they're different. They're different. It is, it's very different.
Speaker 2: It's like, you know, even I mean, it's so cliche, right,
Speaker 2: but like the whole early bird special thing. I love
Speaker 2: an early bird.
Speaker 1: Say I don't like to eat early.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're not there yet.
Speaker 3: Well it's not only that that's left over from my
Speaker 3: eating disorder too.
Speaker 1: I had a lot of like rules, and some of
Speaker 1: them revolved around timing.
Speaker 3: It's a whole other episode.
Speaker 1: But I'm very uncomfortable eating dinner too early.
Speaker 3: Really, Yeah, I have this fear. This is delving into
Speaker 3: a whole another thing.
Speaker 1: But like I have this fear sometimes then I'm gonna
Speaker 1: eat my full dinner and then before I go to sleep,
Speaker 1: I'm still going to be hungry, and then I'm gonna
Speaker 1: have to eat too much.
Speaker 2: I get it.
Speaker 1: It's all just shit in my head.
Speaker 3: Of course, when I go out to dinner early.
Speaker 1: I managed just fine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but.
Speaker 1: I always prefer to eat more like towards the later part.
Speaker 2: You know. I see also, like so many of the women,
Speaker 2: especially on the show, and they are bonded also because
Speaker 2: they love to go out. And I don't think it's
Speaker 2: just because their housewives. They really enjoy just going out,
Speaker 2: still going to I don't know, clubs or restaurants that
Speaker 2: are hot and in that and yeah, I'm getting to
Speaker 2: that stage now where I'd rather hang out and at home.
Speaker 2: Like so I'm gonna have I'm gonna meet my friends
Speaker 2: in Maryland, my three best friends from high school, and
Speaker 2: maybe we'll go out one night, but the rest of
Speaker 2: it's going to be getting up in the morning. My
Speaker 2: friend is this unbelievable house on the water. It's gorgeous,
Speaker 2: and drinking coffee and making breakfast, and maybe we'll go out.
Speaker 2: We'll shop for a little while and then come back
Speaker 2: and like get right back into sweats and you know,
Speaker 2: start to wine at four o'clock.
Speaker 3: And I'll tell you a funny story. Yeah, this is
Speaker 3: sort of us topic.
Speaker 1: So I used to go every before COVID, me and
Speaker 1: my friends from college. There was four of us. We
Speaker 1: used to do a few overnights every year, and one
Speaker 1: of them was always around the time of my birthday.
Speaker 1: We used to go and do a night in the city.
Speaker 1: And I loved to go out like late, like dancing,
Speaker 1: having fun, so we would always book a really fun
Speaker 1: restaurant go out really late. But anyway, when I got
Speaker 1: on the show and I was introduced to the whole
Speaker 1: world of like all these beauty hacks and everything right,
Speaker 1: and I had like, so I got my hair done,
Speaker 1: which I never used to do. I really was very
Speaker 1: simple before this show. And then so I think like
Speaker 1: the second the second year is on the show. I
Speaker 1: got my hair done. We went into the city and
Speaker 1: we went out, and then we all got back to
Speaker 1: the room and it was like three in the morning.
Speaker 1: We were all sitting on the bed talking and just
Speaker 1: naturally I started unclipping some of the hair and my
Speaker 1: friends their faces just dropped and I was like, what's wrong,
Speaker 1: And they were like, what's going on right now?
Speaker 3: What are you taking out of your head? Like it
Speaker 3: was like so bizarre to that.
Speaker 1: It was really funny. I always think of that moment.
Speaker 1: But anyway, Yeah, I see, like when I'm with friends
Speaker 1: now and I'm out and one of them is like,
Speaker 1: I'm really tired, I want to go home. Sometimes I'm like, yes,
Speaker 1: thank you God. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean, it just changes changes what you're interested in,
Speaker 2: you know, it's just thinking. I'm I feel like I
Speaker 2: always feel like this when we're doing the pop but
Speaker 2: like I'm just always my thoughts start coming and I
Speaker 2: don't know if they're actually I'm sorry, they're not coming
Speaker 2: in an organized fashion. But so, you know, having like
Speaker 2: a younger friend or friend that's a lot older, I think.
Speaker 2: So there's that, right, Your pace is different as you
Speaker 2: get older. You know, when you're younger, even in my
Speaker 2: thirties and forties, I wanted to still like it was
Speaker 2: Thursday night and all the women in my town were
Speaker 2: going out and hanging out and having birthdays and up
Speaker 2: until whenever. And I don't have the stamina for that anymore.
Speaker 2: But I think also a lot of it has been about,
Speaker 2: you know, the stuff that was you were scared of
Speaker 2: when you were younger, or that was bothering you, or
Speaker 2: whether it was your kids, you know, going through what
Speaker 2: they were going through and not getting invited to another
Speaker 2: kid's birthday. That stuff has become irrelevant. But now it's
Speaker 2: more about like the stuff that's going on with your
Speaker 2: older kids and being able to relate to that to
Speaker 2: a certain extent. So you know, I don't know like
Speaker 2: moving both of my kids. Now my daughter's about to
Speaker 2: move into New York City, but like what is that?
Speaker 2: Like that letting go and I'm nervous about it, and
Speaker 2: you know, where did your daughter find an apartment? And
Speaker 2: who's And then it's about, you know, the job, and
Speaker 2: my kid is loving his job or hating her job,
Speaker 2: and what how about how did your kid deal with that?
Speaker 2: So it's there's there are different things that you're actually
Speaker 2: that are your priorities and that you're focused on, not
Speaker 2: just with your kids, right, but there's it's harder to
Speaker 2: talk to someone who's who's much younger, Yeah, who's the
Speaker 2: same phase of life?
Speaker 1: Are most of your friends part of a friend group?
Speaker 1: Because I find there's a lot of strife over the
Speaker 1: friend group.
Speaker 3: So when I was younger, I used to have that
Speaker 3: not as much.
Speaker 1: When I moved to my town, I felt like everyone
Speaker 1: was part of a group and now and rightfully so,
Speaker 1: a lot of people in my town were grouped up.
Speaker 1: And now the women that are my age, that's been
Speaker 1: replaced by the younger women who have come in.
Speaker 2: And there happens.
Speaker 1: But the groups that were around when when I was
Speaker 1: in my early thirties, those groups have largely there's still
Speaker 1: relationships intact in there and people are still the great groups.
Speaker 1: The host completely dismantled. Absolutely, everyone's friends are one hundred
Speaker 1: and many different people. Yeah, and that's sort of been
Speaker 1: a relief to me because my my five six close
Speaker 1: friends that I've alluded to, most of them are not
Speaker 1: friends with each other in that way. So I've never
Speaker 1: really had that group mentality. Was in a sorority in college,
Speaker 1: but other than that, I've never had like the group experience.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: There was so much pressure.
Speaker 2: Again, like I don't know, third and forties in terms
Speaker 2: of like birthdays, right, So if it was somebody's birthday,
Speaker 2: it was and someone didn't get invited, it was so childish, right,
Speaker 2: But there were so many hurt feelings and thoughts about
Speaker 2: who to invite and what that meant. And it just
Speaker 2: seems so now. It was so it was so juvenile.
Speaker 2: So who anyone who's listening, who is not? You know,
Speaker 2: who goes, who's way younger than we are. Just that
Speaker 2: gets better. But so that felt really important, like the groups,
Speaker 2: like you know what groups you were in and what
Speaker 2: you were getting invited to and what Now it all
Speaker 2: means a whole lot of nothing. And if I had
Speaker 2: only known then what I know now.
Speaker 1: I find that the group thing is almost dangerous because
Speaker 1: if two people have a rift, it spills out onto.
Speaker 2: Everybody, you know, I mean, welcome to the housewives in
Speaker 2: New Jersey. I mean, well, yeah, housewives in general. And
Speaker 2: speaking of housewives, we're not going to talk about our show.
Speaker 2: But like I just wonder if, like, what do you
Speaker 2: think do you think that like if New Jersey ended,
Speaker 2: would not even New Jersey.
Speaker 1: But like, when someone leaves a show, I see, it
Speaker 1: doesn't seem to me like they stay close with the
Speaker 1: rest of the people on their cast.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean, I don't know most of
Speaker 2: these women. But what I would assume that if you
Speaker 2: were bonded mainly because you were on the same show
Speaker 2: and going through the same experiences, that goes away. What
Speaker 2: do you have left?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: So and I think that's probably Yeah, I think that's
Speaker 2: probably true in most cases because that's what you know,
Speaker 2: that is the priority, right, And I don't feel that
Speaker 2: way with the cast. I've obviously not I don't mean this,
Speaker 2: I don't mean the whole cast. But you and I
Speaker 2: have shared a lot more than what is what's going
Speaker 2: on on the show. It's not where our.
Speaker 1: Friendship has transcended, right, That is not happened for the
Speaker 1: large part with this show. For me, it's usually based
Speaker 1: on like the shared experience of the show. But I
Speaker 1: have a few relationships that have transcended that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know, I think I feel like, you know,
Speaker 2: that's when so something happens for instance, for instance Aiden,
Speaker 2: so my son, yes listening and Jackie's son just had
Speaker 2: a second surgery a sports injury.
Speaker 3: One year and it's it's been very very hard for me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, so talking about me, I mean,
Speaker 2: but as a mom watching your child suffer for the
Speaker 2: second time, right in a one year period, to have
Speaker 2: to go through not only a horrific surgery, but a
Speaker 2: really bad recovery where they're taken away from like all
Speaker 2: the social things that they were doing in the.
Speaker 1: Sports things they were doing.
Speaker 3: It's been really difficult to watch as them.
Speaker 2: All and being able for like you and I just
Speaker 2: to talk about it, and you're sharing with me, like
Speaker 2: what's real in your life and your struggles in the
Speaker 2: summer has not been your favorite summer. You've had a
Speaker 2: lot of stuff going on, and like, so now we're
Speaker 2: talking about stuff that's not just oh you in a circumstance. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but I do have that with other cast members. But
Speaker 2: I don't I don't know if that's the norm or not.
Speaker 2: I mean this, listen, we're not gonna again, We're not.
Speaker 2: We're trying not to talk too much about the show,
Speaker 2: but it takes over your life in this way that
Speaker 2: it feels like, you know, it's so it's it becomes
Speaker 2: like everything. So yes, you become very bonded to everyone
Speaker 2: on the show, and then if the show goes away,
Speaker 2: what are you left with? You know, in my mind,
Speaker 2: you and I have were.
Speaker 1: I'm not worried about us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know so, but that's probably you know,
Speaker 2: that probably translates so when none of the words, when
Speaker 2: little the Little Kid stage is over, if that's all
Speaker 2: you shared, yeah, there's not much left, you know, it's.
Speaker 1: Just thinking of like past housewives and like you know,
Speaker 1: you see them reconnect like a one off on Instagram,
Speaker 1: but like really they're estranged from like most of the people,
Speaker 1: Like look at Bethany, right, or look at like Lisa
Speaker 1: vander Pum. Yeah, you look at all the old OC housewives.
Speaker 3: I mean that was the thing.
Speaker 2: That's also the thing is I don't like I look
Speaker 2: at a vicky and tamer thing, right, and it seemed
Speaker 2: like they were just they had way so past. Yes,
Speaker 2: the housewives world, right, they were like sisters. But listen,
Speaker 2: I mean it could happen. I guess it could happen
Speaker 2: to anyone, but the fact that they're not anymore.
Speaker 1: Right, I guess anyone could fall apart.
Speaker 2: I feel like we haven't given a lot of tips,
Speaker 2: and I don't know. I just want to say I
Speaker 2: feel sort of qualified because I do have an easy
Speaker 2: time making friends. I feel sort of qualified to give
Speaker 2: some advice. And I touched on it a little while ago.
Speaker 2: But like you have to be brave, yes, and you have.
Speaker 1: To and on on that note, like brave, we mean
Speaker 1: like don't be embarrassed to ask someone for their number
Speaker 1: and to reach out and suggest lunch, right, absolutely, and
Speaker 1: approach it. It's not that deep, right, Like, let's say
Speaker 1: that I meet you, I think that we're connecting. You
Speaker 1: don't I reach out, You make up an excuse next,
Speaker 1: as opposed to taking it in and personalizing on it.
Speaker 1: And that's where it reminds me of maybe dating, right,
Speaker 1: like what's wrong with me? You're going to click with
Speaker 1: people you click with, and you're not going to with
Speaker 1: the people that you don't. Period, end of story. But
Speaker 1: also my suggestion would be to be open and honest
Speaker 1: in terms of like what's going on with your life.
Speaker 1: I've never I don't. I've never bonded with anybody over like,
Speaker 1: oh yes, had my kids are this old?
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're so great. Everybody you don't.
Speaker 2: Have to have. I'm not saying in order to be
Speaker 2: my friend, you have to be going through horrible things,
Speaker 2: but like as opposed to oh yeah, my husband, oh
Speaker 2: my god, yes, we're so great, and my kids and
Speaker 2: they are so great, and I just bought a new
Speaker 2: house and it's so great and my like actually, you know,
Speaker 2: opening up and talking about some things and being real
Speaker 2: with someone. At least my experience has been that when
Speaker 2: I've done that, it comes back to me and you
Speaker 2: know you bond in this way that you wouldn't if
Speaker 2: you're just putting on a show.
Speaker 3: Do you feel like that a hundred percent?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: You know, it's not always into It's not always easy
Speaker 2: to do because you don't know how much to reveal
Speaker 2: to a new friend. But I find that I connect
Speaker 2: with people because I'm not afraid to like open myself up.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love that and like and also, like you said,
Speaker 3: it's not so deep.
Speaker 1: I mean I had lunch with a friend who we
Speaker 1: actually followed through on the.
Speaker 3: Hey, you want to have lunch one day.
Speaker 1: We weren't close, we had lunch and it was lovely,
Speaker 1: But I don't think any of us felt like it
Speaker 1: was something that we needed to do again anytime soon.
Speaker 1: We really liked each other, but not there just was
Speaker 1: missing that like really deep connection. We were hugh where
Speaker 1: we were like we need to keep talking. I have
Speaker 1: so much more to say, right, you know, But it
Speaker 1: wasn't a waste, Like I really liked her and we
Speaker 1: had a nice time, So be brave. What about like
Speaker 1: signing up for new classes and hobbies?
Speaker 2: I just I said, I haven't done. I can't recommend
Speaker 2: that because I just don't do it. I like, I
Speaker 2: haven't really done. I'm trying to think if I've ever
Speaker 2: met any one. I mean, besides, like the kids, it's
Speaker 2: always the beginning. It was always the kids, right, or
Speaker 2: it was you know, college or high school. It was
Speaker 2: just circumstance.
Speaker 1: I don't well, I don't do yoga, but my friends
Speaker 1: who have started yoga classes, pilates classes.
Speaker 2: They seem to have met a lot of people. Actually,
Speaker 2: you know something that is very true. I have a
Speaker 2: dear friend who's a yoga instructor, and I have a
Speaker 2: dear friend who's a pilates instructor, and they are so
Speaker 2: much of their world has become and they become they
Speaker 2: all become friends with each other, and they're going out
Speaker 2: to happy hours or to you know, yeah whatever it is,
Speaker 2: and going to different events. So, yes, you're right, even.
Speaker 1: Though definitely I've never been consistent. Yeah pickable, Yeah, pattable.
Speaker 3: But again, just like I guess it.
Speaker 2: Like anything else in life, it's just attitude.
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, yeah, and uh, I love to
Speaker 1: see anywhere. Tips, let's see, get offline, go outside, get
Speaker 1: people in real life. Don't just be online. You know,
Speaker 1: sometimes my friends will ask me. They'll see a famous
Speaker 1: person and be like, are you friends with them? And
Speaker 1: like once in a while, I'll have an online relationship
Speaker 1: with them and I'm like, yeah, I'm friends with them.
Speaker 1: And then I'm like I throw that word around really easily,
Speaker 1: where like I don't know the name of this person's
Speaker 1: like dog, right, I don't know anything about them, right,
Speaker 1: I'm calling them my friend. And I think the online
Speaker 1: world makes you think that you have relationships that are
Speaker 1: close that are definitely not close. And I just I
Speaker 1: think it's really dangerous when you start replacing real friendships
Speaker 1: with just online interactions.
Speaker 2: I agree with that. Yeah, and I think that boils
Speaker 2: over right, like like the online thing. That's again that's
Speaker 2: a whole other thing episode. But you know, we haven't
Speaker 2: even we haven't really touched on how it feels to
Speaker 2: lose a friend. And again I keep saying this, maybe
Speaker 2: for another episode, but like that morning period, how that feels,
Speaker 2: How you know that affects because I see what's happened
Speaker 2: to me, but friends of mine who have stopped being friends,
Speaker 2: and how it preoccupies them both. Let's say if I'm
Speaker 2: friends with them both and it's all they really can
Speaker 2: talk about and it becomes all consuming and really just
Speaker 2: this this very difficult loss, right, different than I guess
Speaker 2: a romantic partner, but very painful.
Speaker 3: Nonetheless, Yeah, so it's hard.
Speaker 1: It's hard to lose a friend, and I mean it's
Speaker 1: it's even more difficult when it happens on a show
Speaker 1: because there are there's so many forces and there's so
Speaker 1: many other voices weighing in, weighing in on everything, and
Speaker 1: it's like it's not easy to just reconcile because number one,
Speaker 1: if you're going to reconcile, like your producers want you
Speaker 1: to save it for the cameras, but also like there's
Speaker 1: a lot of other factors like if you go to
Speaker 1: become friends with this person again, like are other people
Speaker 1: going to have a problem with it? And what's going
Speaker 1: to happen with that? And are you going to be
Speaker 1: fighting with other people about it. So it's it's so
Speaker 1: weeded and so difficult. I don't even think about it.
Speaker 2: At this point in my life. What I want is
Speaker 2: people around me that I spend time with, who I truly, honestly,
Speaker 2: earnestly love who I know, love me, who I can
Speaker 2: be myself with without feeling judged and The truth is,
Speaker 2: I don't think it's it's those are the kind of relationships,
Speaker 2: right that you want to nurture. And you can make
Speaker 2: a lot of friends, but maybe the trick is to
Speaker 2: figure out which of those are meaningful and that you
Speaker 2: want to really hold on to. You know, I think
Speaker 2: I've spent a lot of time, you know, being quote
Speaker 2: unquote friends with people that we really didn't have that
Speaker 2: much in common and you know, didn't have that much
Speaker 2: to say to each other.
Speaker 1: So narrow down your circle, I think, to people who
Speaker 1: really are meaningful to you. But also there's nothing wrong
Speaker 1: in middle age with expanding.
Speaker 2: Them yeah yeah, just yeah, yeah yeah, and being open,
Speaker 2: not being afraid. We are so good at this, Jack,
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know why we don't have a
Speaker 2: doctor title. This is not the Jersey Jays. We are
Speaker 2: doctor John doctor right, the doctor. Technically I have a doctor.
Speaker 2: It's yours doctor. I mean I have a doctor as well.
Speaker 2: But anyway, are you a therapy You said, what?
Speaker 1: No, no, no, I have a doctor. You have a doctorate.
Speaker 2: I know I don't have a doctorate.
Speaker 1: I thought you said.
Speaker 2: I thought you were said like your.
Speaker 3: Therapist, I have a door, said I have a doctor.
Speaker 3: Start a doctor right exactly.
Speaker 2: No, I do not have a doctorate.
Speaker 3: Definitely have a doctor. Yes, well I love this, I do,
Speaker 3: really do.
Speaker 2: I do too, and I would want to make a
Speaker 2: new friend whoever's listening, Like we don't get as much.
Speaker 2: I want more, like not just feedback, but ideas or
Speaker 2: I didn't like when you said this, or we liked
Speaker 2: when you said or this really resonated with me. You know,
Speaker 2: if you guys want to d m us at any point.
Speaker 2: We both have our own personal instagrams. And then the
Speaker 2: Jersey Jays when we talked about family estrangements, you did.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I got a lot people really could relate to that,
Speaker 1: which almost made me sad. But yeah, definitely let us
Speaker 1: and also like what you if there's stuff that you
Speaker 1: want us to talk about or that you think would
Speaker 1: be an interesting topic.
Speaker 3: I age a is hard, guys.
Speaker 1: I mean like even looking at myself in the zoom
Speaker 1: right now, like I know, notice the things that are
Speaker 1: making me older. No, I still feel beautiful, I do,
Speaker 1: but I.
Speaker 2: Need to think I'm doing I'm doing well. You look
Speaker 2: for my age, but I don't always feel I certainly
Speaker 2: don't always feel beautiful, but.
Speaker 1: I do notice my age all the time. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: on your mind. And what age, middle age is loaded,
Speaker 1: it's different.
Speaker 2: It's hard, I said, whould I say this too recently?
Speaker 2: It also like things that happened, like a wedding, for instance,
Speaker 2: and being the grown ups at the wedding. It's something
Speaker 2: about just your mortality, you know, kind of becomes very obvious.
Speaker 2: And in this now I'm gonna I don't want to
Speaker 2: get morbid, but I want this part of my life
Speaker 2: to be as happy and as you know, filled with friendship,
Speaker 2: real friendship and love as I can make it. Because
Speaker 2: guess what I'm gonna be. And now it's just going
Speaker 2: to get morbid. But it's you know, the clock is
Speaker 2: a ticken.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, and it does like people.
Speaker 1: You know, it's true you we don't have forever. And
Speaker 1: I think that's something else you realize at this age
Speaker 1: is you know your time isn't forever and you have
Speaker 1: to make the most of it. Anyway, before we get
Speaker 1: to philosophical that's it. Go make a new friend today.
Speaker 1: And and you know you and I were late stage friends.
Speaker 1: We only met a few years ago, and it's been
Speaker 1: one of the biggest gifts. So I love you. I
Speaker 1: love you all.
Speaker 3: Right, guys, love you all too. Happy until next time.
Speaker 1: Today is Monday, Monday, Happy Monday.
Speaker 3: Okay, well it's not Monday when they're listening, so fair enough.
Speaker 2: Happy week, Happy great week, by you guys.
Speaker 1: Bye,