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Speaker 1: I am done, got even this is all ball. We've

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Speaker 1: done great stories. This is a plot as popularity group

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Speaker 1: to grow, grow and grow, and we are so happy

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Speaker 1: that so many of you have shared it with with

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Speaker 1: your friends. Um, we we have a pod that we

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Speaker 1: dropped a day or two days ago. Me come, my buddies.

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Speaker 1: I played with the ocal Mistate. What it's like to

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Speaker 1: really play for Eddie Sutton at Okah Mistate Again, That's

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Speaker 1: all ball. Brian Morton and a Desert Mason Adrian Peterson,

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Speaker 1: great players, great dudes and some of my best friends

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Speaker 1: in life and in sport. And I hope you listen

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Speaker 1: to that one. This one our guest is Kim English.

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Speaker 1: Now Kim and I have become friends. I covered him

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Speaker 1: when he was at Missoo and obviously he's like, I

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Speaker 1: don't know, twelve thirteen years younger than me. But you know, like, um,

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Speaker 1: are you just when you meet some people you just

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Speaker 1: know you're like, that guy is gonna be successful. I

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Speaker 1: don't know make a long term in the NBA, but

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Speaker 1: that guy is gonna be successful. And when I found

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Speaker 1: to be particularly kind of mind blowing and awesome is

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Speaker 1: his admittance of and I think a lot of athletes

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Speaker 1: are really more this way. Some superstars are not. You know,

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Speaker 1: I chat to this day. We'll never admit to the

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Speaker 1: fact he finish your free THO made him? What amount it?

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Speaker 1: You know? Right? Whereas the rest of us. I think

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Speaker 1: most guys know who they were and are comfortable with

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Speaker 1: who they were, even at their flaws and way do

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Speaker 1: you hear what Kim had to say kept him from

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Speaker 1: sustaining his spot in the NBA and why he couldn't

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Speaker 1: play overseas and I and listening to him and maybe

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Speaker 1: his own words, um, maybe his own words. He he

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Speaker 1: admitted that the success he had at times was a

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Speaker 1: detriment to long term success. For his failure at times

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Speaker 1: and him being ended up in him being more successful.

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Speaker 1: It's a I don't know. I just the ability, at

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Speaker 1: at his age to look inside himself and understand himself

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Speaker 1: as amazing. There's stuff about he went to four high

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Speaker 1: schools and a prep school, his pop, pop, his dad,

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Speaker 1: their relationships, the last high school game, finally playing with

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Speaker 1: his buddies they grew up with. Um, a little bit

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Speaker 1: of Baltimore d C. Hoops that I didn't know about

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Speaker 1: showing up at Missouri. What it took for him playing

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Speaker 1: for two different coaches in college, Mike Anderson and Frank Haith,

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Speaker 1: and then playing in the NBA. There's there's just there's

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Speaker 1: a lot. It's really good and you're gonna enjoy it. Um,

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Speaker 1: we're a couple of days away, it seems like, from

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Speaker 1: the end of the NBA season, and uh, you know, like, look,

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Speaker 1: it's what's the thing that's going to be tested in

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Speaker 1: the East is does defense really win championships? Because the

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Speaker 1: Nets when they have k D and James Hard and

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Speaker 1: Kyrie Irving. I love James Harden's response when he's asked

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Speaker 1: about how quickly in his first game back, how good

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Speaker 1: he was, like, I'm I'm kind of good at this game.

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Speaker 1: Like do you think he's amazing at this game? They're amazing,

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Speaker 1: But the defense win championships are just like, Hey, you

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Speaker 1: have three dudes, one who really likes to pass, and

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Speaker 1: James Harden, Kevin Rants bought into passing. Ye can pass,

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Speaker 1: but I just don't the whole Those three offensively are

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Speaker 1: remarkable to watch. You adding Joe Harris and DeAndre Jordan

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Speaker 1: or somebody at the big and it's pretty fun. But

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Speaker 1: can they guard anybody and or doesn't matter. Then you

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Speaker 1: have the Sixers who can really guard. But can you

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Speaker 1: play through a big and can you win the NBA playoffs?

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Speaker 1: That way we'll find out. I think the playoffs are

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Speaker 1: gonna be faster Milwaukee, who I think is a smart

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Speaker 1: bet in terms of money wise to come out of

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Speaker 1: the East. But are we buying into the honest who

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Speaker 1: most people still don't think you can shoot? And can

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Speaker 1: you win the NBA and your best player can't shoot

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Speaker 1: in the big to games? I don't know. I guess.

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Speaker 1: I guess we will soon learn, will soon find out.

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Speaker 1: And then the downfall of the Boston Celtics. I don't

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Speaker 1: think there's any way it costs Brad Stevens's job, but

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Speaker 1: something is amiss with the chemical makeup of this team

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Speaker 1: that's got to be solved. In addition to the fact

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Speaker 1: they haven't been healthy for most of Marcus market and

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Speaker 1: heard Brown most recently getting hurt. Those are valid explanations,

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Speaker 1: but the lack of chemistry. Something doesn't work. Something doesn't work.

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Speaker 1: And then out West I said in the last bottle

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Speaker 1: say it again, Sons want no part of the Lakers,

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Speaker 1: no part of the That's a bad matchup for the Suns.

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Speaker 1: And while we can sit here and go like with

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Speaker 1: the seventh seeds, so and they're probably gonna be a favorite,

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Speaker 1: they wouldn't be a seventh seed of Lebron and A

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Speaker 1: D didn't get hurt, and then Dennis Shrewder didn't get COVID.

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Speaker 1: I mean, come on, so it's really hard to tell

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Speaker 1: what's what, especially with Denver not having Jamal Murray. I

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Speaker 1: think Utah is better than people think, not just because

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Speaker 1: the record, but how they'll play in the postseason. I

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Speaker 1: think Portland's there bounced back this year has been really impressive.

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Speaker 1: So I'm excited about the playoffs. I'm excited about the

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Speaker 1: playing game. We'll talk about him a little bit more

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Speaker 1: in the next pot. Let me get to this Kim English.

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Speaker 1: There's a young head coach just got his first job

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Speaker 1: at George Mason. In this part of the pot, we

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Speaker 1: don't really even get to the George Mason Park just

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Speaker 1: yet or the coaching part just yet a little bit.

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Speaker 1: At the end, he kind of tells you when he

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Speaker 1: wanted to get into coaching and how it actually worked.

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Speaker 1: I didn't share with him a story. Well, I'll share

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Speaker 1: with them the start of the part two that I

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Speaker 1: think he'll he'll really enjoy. In the meantime, you'll enjoy.

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Speaker 1: This is the new head coach of George Mason. Remember

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Speaker 1: the team that Jim Larnegat took to the Final four

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Speaker 1: and that if you looked, should they even gotten the

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Speaker 1: n c A determined that year? All right? But they did.

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Speaker 1: They went all the way to the final four and

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Speaker 1: they might have been the second best team in that

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Speaker 1: final four. They lost in Florida. Florida one was part

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Speaker 1: of their back to back national championship. He is my

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Speaker 1: conversation with Kim English. Um. Obviously, this is amazing that

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Speaker 1: you're the head coach at George Space. Before we get

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Speaker 1: to all that, let's the first place you played? Who

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Speaker 1: beat the park you grew up playing at was where? Man, Uh,

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Speaker 1: that's a great question. I'd have to say, it's uh, Cloverdale.

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Speaker 1: Cloverdale Basketball Court on the west side of Baltimore. My

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Speaker 1: um granddad has a mechanics shop and a tow company

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Speaker 1: right there in an alley right across the street from

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Speaker 1: the park, and I'd just be down there all day

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Speaker 1: in the shop in the summer, and I just used

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Speaker 1: to venture across the street and try to play try

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Speaker 1: to get on at a Cloverdale I get out. That's perfect,

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Speaker 1: that's a great. Um, what's your what's your grandad's name?

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Speaker 1: Alexander Folks Okay, so what was out? Was Grandpa? What

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Speaker 1: you call him? I called him Pop Hop Okay. People

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Speaker 1: in the neighborhood called him Mr Al people really knew him,

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Speaker 1: called him hot Rod because he used to race cars. Um.

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Speaker 1: But so yeah, no, I mean he he did not

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Speaker 1: know where I was. I was. He'd be in the

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Speaker 1: shop working, you know, making money, doing what he's supposed

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Speaker 1: to do, and I'd be My first place plan was

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Speaker 1: across the street in Cloverdale Park in West Baltimore. Tell

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Speaker 1: me more about about Pop Pop Okay. So, like if

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Speaker 1: you close your eyes, you said, this is what he

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Speaker 1: was like to me because my my, my grandpa, I

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Speaker 1: wanted nothing to do with sports. He was an old

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Speaker 1: New Yorker who was He put himself through school to

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Speaker 1: be an accountant, and then he through accounting, he got

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Speaker 1: a part of a car dealership and he became the

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Speaker 1: owner of a car dealership. So there was a year

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Speaker 1: my dad was that U t W Milwaukee, kind of

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Speaker 1: like what happened at Hartford. They went d three, So

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Speaker 1: he left and we stayed for a year at his house.

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Speaker 1: And all I can remember my Empa he passed by

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Speaker 1: fifteen years ago, maybe maybe twenty. Um. All I can

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Speaker 1: remember about my grandpa was two things is he loved

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Speaker 1: to play cards and I used to fix the sprinklers.

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Speaker 1: I come home from preschool and we work on the

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Speaker 1: sprinklers together. Right. That was that was like my thing

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Speaker 1: with him. What was your thing with your pop out? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: similar to my granddad. He didn't care much about sports.

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Speaker 1: He's just a quiet old soul from Baltimore. Very humble beginnings. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, dropped out of school in ninth grade, began

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Speaker 1: working on cars, mechanic and just I mean no formal

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Speaker 1: education really, just educated in just growing up in the

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Speaker 1: city of Baltimore and being a mechanic, and eventually got

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Speaker 1: to a point where he, um, you know, I was

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Speaker 1: in one of the toughest neighborhoods in Baltimore, Whitelock in

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Speaker 1: West Baltimore. He had a he had no way shoes.

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Speaker 1: He had a shot there. And you know now when

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Speaker 1: the Ravens moved back to Baltimore, he then got into sports. Um,

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Speaker 1: but he uh, very wise, very wise man. I still

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Speaker 1: go visit him about once a week. I'll just make

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Speaker 1: the drive up and see him. My grandmother has since passed. Um.

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Speaker 1: You know, he's moved out the house. He's in a condo.

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Speaker 1: But he's really funny. You know. He used to say, like,

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Speaker 1: when water bottles became a thing. I felt like water

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Speaker 1: bottles became a thing when I was in like the

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Speaker 1: mid part of my childhood, Like bottles of water, like

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Speaker 1: spring water was the thing. He was like. He used

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Speaker 1: to say stuff like, man, I can't believe you guys

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Speaker 1: paying for water. And he he used to say, Man,

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Speaker 1: one day, you guys are gonna be paying for air.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, what are you talking about. I

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Speaker 1: don't know that we're gonna pay for air. No one

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Speaker 1: was ever gonna pay for air. And I was in

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Speaker 1: Vegas at an AU event and uh and uh. I

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Speaker 1: remember walking on the strip and there were people sitting

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Speaker 1: at an oxygen bar, and he popped in my mind.

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Speaker 1: I was like, people are paying for air. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: that's pretty funny. How did you fall in love with

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Speaker 1: the game? Uh? Man, you know, that's a great question.

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Speaker 1: I'm actually in a I go back and read this

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Speaker 1: book called The Talent Code maybe three or four times

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Speaker 1: a year, and I read the Culture Code a couple

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Speaker 1: of times a year. And I'm actually at the part

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Speaker 1: right now when it's you know, it's talking about you know,

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Speaker 1: the love of the game being a very big factor

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Speaker 1: in um, you know, the development of really good players

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Speaker 1: and talent hotbeds, and you know, I just fell in

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Speaker 1: love with the game planet. They just planning, you know,

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Speaker 1: at that park, at other parks. When I eventually got

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Speaker 1: on a team. Um, you know, I just fell in

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Speaker 1: love with the game through every single time I was

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Speaker 1: afforded the opportunity to play it. You know, it just

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Speaker 1: it just became what we did. It was just the

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Speaker 1: only thing. It was our only thing. Um. Okay, high school, right,

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Speaker 1: so you went to note you you went to first,

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Speaker 1: to Ransdale, Right. I went to a lot of high schools.

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Speaker 1: I went to so many. I went to a lot

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Speaker 1: of high schools. I'd say that hows and okay, okay,

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Speaker 1: give me, I'm gonna write this down. Okay, So you're

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Speaker 1: it's not that easy. It's so many because of no, no,

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Speaker 1: explain what's going on in your life, Explain the whole thing,

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Speaker 1: because it's a fascinating journey. Well, um, so at first

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Speaker 1: I went to a school, uh called Calvert Hall, which

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Speaker 1: is a very prestigious high school in Baltimore. Um, and

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Speaker 1: I I was a good player in my own mind,

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Speaker 1: but not really. I didn't have any reputation in the city.

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Speaker 1: I just applied to Calcert Hall and I got in

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Speaker 1: just as student and uh and uh, but it's a

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Speaker 1: great basketball school, like Mark Amatucci is a legend in Baltimore.

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Speaker 1: One Dixon played there, Dwayne Farrell played that, Ricky Harris,

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Speaker 1: Jack Mclinton, Gary Neal, like great high school players have

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Speaker 1: played at Calvin Hall. Yeah at Jack Mclinton. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: Jack Clinton and one Dixon is not a bad one.

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Speaker 1: And I'm messaging but Jackson, my Jackson, my guy. But

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Speaker 1: um so okay, So I was there and I was there,

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Speaker 1: but it wasn't because of basketball. I just knew it

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Speaker 1: was a great bathroom high school and I thought I

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Speaker 1: was good playing. But they had no Mark Amatucci had

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Speaker 1: no clue who I was as a high school player,

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Speaker 1: and so I went there and uh, okay, but but

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Speaker 1: but it's not as simple as that, right. You can

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Speaker 1: apply like your you're like families like cool, We'll send

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Speaker 1: you like, what's the did you have complete car Blanco

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Speaker 1: where you're going to high school? Like how did that?

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Speaker 1: How did that work? Because again it's different for me.

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Speaker 1: My dad was like, all right, we gotta find you

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Speaker 1: the right high school. Yeah, I wanted to go to

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Speaker 1: I wanted to go to this high school because a

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Speaker 1: lot of great bath both players went there. So I applied,

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Speaker 1: I got in, I got some um you know, help

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Speaker 1: financial aid or whatever, and I went there and um,

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Speaker 1: I uh, I had to try out for the freshman team.

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Speaker 1: And I thought in my mind, I thought I was

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Speaker 1: a lot better than the freshman team. Um I tried out,

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Speaker 1: I would have made the team. But I also had

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Speaker 1: like detention at the time. And then it was a

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Speaker 1: it was a it was a It was a Christian

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Speaker 1: Brothers school St. John Baptist, a day day lassal Catholic school,

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Speaker 1: and they were very disciplined and strict, so if you

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Speaker 1: got detention, you served out your detention. The guy named

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Speaker 1: Mr Currn, he was the detention guy. So I had

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Speaker 1: like twenty straight detentions for I don't know, like a

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Speaker 1: shirt untucked or talking in class or being late whatever.

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Speaker 1: And I had detention at the same time, I had

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Speaker 1: basketball practice, So like, I chose basketball practice and Mr

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Speaker 1: Currn marched over to the gym got me out of

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Speaker 1: the gym, like, no, you got detention, let's go. So

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Speaker 1: I had to serve the detention all through tryouts. So

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Speaker 1: I didn't I couldn't play, So like, I couldn't play,

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Speaker 1: so I ended up, um leaving a penalty. Yeah, I transferred, dude,

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Speaker 1: another great Catholic school in Baltimore called Taosing Catholic High School,

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Speaker 1: and I got to play. I got to play on

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Speaker 1: JB and um, you know I was was there and

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Speaker 1: uh then after that season, I was a not a

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Speaker 1: I wasn't a bad kid, but I had some I

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Speaker 1: was a normal I was that little behavior issues as

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Speaker 1: a young person. Um, so I'll give you. I'll give

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Speaker 1: you one months to my son he goes to He

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Speaker 1: put him in a private school mide year, so he

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Speaker 1: currently has to do school at home for two weeks

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Speaker 1: because he can't keep his mask above his nose. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that would be me, right, It's like, and that is

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Speaker 1: exactly me. And I'm like, I'm supposed to be mad

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Speaker 1: at you. I was like, are you kidding me? I

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Speaker 1: would have done the exact Okay, so you're your tousand,

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Speaker 1: you play freshman JB. You get down with the year. Okay,

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Speaker 1: now at the time, are you playing on an AU team? Uh?

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, Mount Royal me Malcolm Delaney, UM, Sean Moseley

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Speaker 1: who played in Maryland. We had some some some good

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Speaker 1: players and um, so get down there and I leave.

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Speaker 1: I got it. I got recruited to Mont vert Mont

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Speaker 1: Verde Academy. UM. The guy by the name who's from Baltimore,

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Speaker 1: his name is Eric Skeeters. Eric Skeeters was really close

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Speaker 1: friends with Kevin Sutton at Mont Verde. He told me

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Speaker 1: to come. Kevin was just getting the program started. I

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Speaker 1: go to Mont Verde. Um. I played there for a year.

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Speaker 1: Um and uh, I was asked to leave because again,

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Speaker 1: like you know, it was my temper at the time,

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Speaker 1: and as a sixty year old, it was like I

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Speaker 1: got in the fight. I gotta fight with another It

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Speaker 1: was real craziest story ever. So we're playing, we're after dinner.

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Speaker 1: If you ever been to Mont vere they have this

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Speaker 1: beautiful big lawn in the middle of campus and after

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Speaker 1: dinner the kids played games. So like in Mont Verde

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Speaker 1: is an international school, so it's it's it maybe ten

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Speaker 1: American kids in the whole school everyone else is born

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Speaker 1: and the kids were playing soccer. So I like jumped

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Speaker 1: out there and played. I was playing around and uh

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Speaker 1: and I like jumped up naturally and I like slapped

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Speaker 1: the ball. And this German kid named Ali was like, hey,

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Speaker 1: hemball penball And I was like, all right, turn over

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Speaker 1: your ball, like I used my hand. He said no,

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Speaker 1: I get to. I get to slap you in the

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Speaker 1: face for using your hand. And I was like, all right,

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Speaker 1: we ain't. We ain't you ain't slapping me in the face.

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Speaker 1: But you get always said no I slapped you. I

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Speaker 1: was like, no, you're not. So Ali insists on slapping me.

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Speaker 1: So we fight and I like I beat him up

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Speaker 1: pretty bad and um kicked up. Did you play that season?

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Speaker 1: I did? I played that up until that point, Yeah

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Speaker 1: I did. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk

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Speaker 1: lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows at

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Speaker 1: Fox sports Radio dot com and within the I Heart

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Speaker 1: Radio app search f s R to listen live. So

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Speaker 1: I come back home and then I go to Rambostown

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Speaker 1: and it's my school in my neighborhood, and uh, it's

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Speaker 1: it's my last year of high school. Two thousand and seven,

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Speaker 1: we win the state championship with all my friends from

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Speaker 1: growing up, which was great at the University of Maryland,

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Speaker 1: which was my dream school at the time. And um,

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Speaker 1: but I didn't have the grade. I didn't have the

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Speaker 1: S A T score score to plat pass the n

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Speaker 1: C Double A claring house at the time. You have

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Speaker 1: the sliding scale. Your g p A in U S

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Speaker 1: A T score had to match. Mine wasn't high enough. Um,

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Speaker 1: so I had to do a year prep school. I

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Speaker 1: went to Notre Dame Prep and Fitchburg, Massachusetts, and um,

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Speaker 1: that was a big, big year in my basketball development. Um.

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Speaker 1: You know, in the book The Talent Colde kind of

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Speaker 1: talked about it and that in talent hotbeds, it's usually

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Speaker 1: not the most beautiful places. It's usually the places that

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Speaker 1: have some character for lack of a better term, you know.

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Speaker 1: And Notre Name Prep was that if any coach has

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Speaker 1: en't been there, he knows it's it's not beautiful. The

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Speaker 1: gym is cold. We had to We used to sneak

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Speaker 1: in the gym at night. We have we had a

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Speaker 1: little way of like sneaking and breaking into the boiler

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Speaker 1: room just to turn the heaters on to heat up

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Speaker 1: the gym so we could shoot at night. Um you know,

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Speaker 1: and it was we used to. We played one on

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Speaker 1: one every single night. My roommate was Tony Allen's little brother, Ryan,

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Speaker 1: So we used to take the train down to Boston

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Speaker 1: watch the Celtics play. We're there the year they won

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Speaker 1: the finals. Um. I probably went to twenty five or

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Speaker 1: thirties Celtics home games that season. Um all because of

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Speaker 1: Ryan and I had to leave to go to ma

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Speaker 1: Zoo for summer school, and we were I was in

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Speaker 1: in Columbia watching the Celtics beat the Lakers in two

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Speaker 1: thousand and eight, and Ryan Allen, my roommate, was in

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Speaker 1: the locker room celebrating with the team like I would

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Speaker 1: have been in the Celtics locker room throwing champagne around

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Speaker 1: if I didn't have to go to summer school my

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Speaker 1: freshman year. And and uh, I mean all those things,

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Speaker 1: all those moments kind of built and created this obsession

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Speaker 1: I have with the game, Um you know, And I

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Speaker 1: mean so many au moments thrown in there that we

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Speaker 1: didn't talk about. But no, man, it's a beautiful game.

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Speaker 1: UM used to stutter, but I still stuttered. I'm still

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Speaker 1: a very very bad stutterer. Still, I just have I

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Speaker 1: have control over it. When did how do you how

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Speaker 1: does that work? How do how does it work? Well? First,

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Speaker 1: let's let's go back, like in the high school and

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Speaker 1: in the well, in the elementary school, I mean preschool,

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Speaker 1: I stuttered, my hope when I can stutter. I started

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Speaker 1: for as long as I can remember, and it I

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Speaker 1: hate to bash on Baltimore public education. But the speech

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Speaker 1: pathologists had not a clue what they were talking about. Like,

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Speaker 1: you know, they used to have me come in, I

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Speaker 1: get taken out of class. I go to sit with

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Speaker 1: my speech pathologists and I'm sitting there and she'd be

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Speaker 1: or he'd be having me reading. But like I could

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Speaker 1: read till I'm blew in the face and like the

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Speaker 1: one on one setting, like I don't stutter when I read,

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Speaker 1: Like it's not that I started when I spoke, when

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Speaker 1: I speak. Um. So I went through the speech pathology

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Speaker 1: process in Baltimore all the way up into the private

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Speaker 1: high school. When I just stopped, I said, I'm good.

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Speaker 1: I figured out like sometimes I started sometimes I don't

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Speaker 1: you know. When I got into college, I took a

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Speaker 1: couple of speech pathology classes and I kinda but I

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Speaker 1: was always quiet and at the zoo, I just kind

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Speaker 1: of on my own listen to what was being said.

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Speaker 1: I don't even know if anyone class knew that I started.

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Speaker 1: I just took the classes for my own gaining of knowledge,

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Speaker 1: and so I had taught myself. It's really cool. I

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Speaker 1: had taught myself strategies that are actually speech like like

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Speaker 1: what like what like give me what you're you're teaching

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Speaker 1: yourself to avoid so you don't stutter when you sing one,

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Speaker 1: you don't stutter when you sing. So just learning that

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Speaker 1: kind of helped my brain a little bit start sentences.

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Speaker 1: So if I was about to speak, I may start

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Speaker 1: a small hum like in my own self inside of me,

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Speaker 1: and then I would start my sentences. It kind of

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Speaker 1: would It would just help me start, you know. Um,

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Speaker 1: I had to like right now, I'm kind of like

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Speaker 1: bouncing my knee when I speak. I don't need to

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Speaker 1: do that right now, but that helped me. That rhythm

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Speaker 1: of a bouncing knee helped me um quite a bit

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Speaker 1: with my speech. Um A, the source the stories helped

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Speaker 1: me a bunch. You know. If I was just struggling

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Speaker 1: with the word, I would just switch the word. You know,

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Speaker 1: I know when a stutter is about to come, like

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Speaker 1: eight words before it's gonna come, and I would just

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Speaker 1: as I'm getting up to that word seven six, five,

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Speaker 1: four three to one, I would switch the eighth word

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Speaker 1: to something else. Um I. Uh. Lastly, though, that was

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Speaker 1: a movie called The King's Speech, and I recommended to

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Speaker 1: any stutter, any kid that stutters, and I speak to

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Speaker 1: kids all over the world. Um you know, uh, kids

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Speaker 1: all over the world that stutter. I I speak to

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Speaker 1: them and try to help them. But Colin Firth was

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Speaker 1: the actor, and we had just lost a game in

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00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:48,440
Speaker 1: two thousand eleven or two thousand twelve to Kansas State

407
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Speaker 1: in Manhattan, and we got back to Columbia and it

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Speaker 1: was just I was bored in The movie had just

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Speaker 1: come out, and I was like, I'm gonna go. I'm

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Speaker 1: just gonna check this movie out. It was no one

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Speaker 1: was in the movie theater. I sat in the back.

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Speaker 1: It was empty, and I just watched it. And they

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Speaker 1: did an amazing job, like it's obviously the true story.

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Speaker 1: They obviously did their research, like what he went through

415
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 1: is as accurate depiction as I've ever seen in film,

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Speaker 1: and the strategies that he used. I was in porn

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Speaker 1: in myself. But the person that helped me the most

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Speaker 1: with my stutter was Barack Obama. UM never met him,

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Speaker 1: but listening to the cadence in which he speaks helped

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Speaker 1: me greatly. It slowed me down. It made me realize that,

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Speaker 1: you know, a big problem with stutterers are stutterers try

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Speaker 1: to speak at the same pace and tempo of everyone else,

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Speaker 1: but they can't. You can get there, like I can

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Speaker 1: get there now, like you know, you could say I

425
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:50,040
Speaker 1: overcame my stutter, but I still stutter at times. Like

426
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 1: my close friends and family and players, My players see

427
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,359
Speaker 1: me stutter, but they just know, like if it's a

428
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:57,399
Speaker 1: heated moment in practice or a scout, I'll have a

429
00:23:57,760 --> 00:23:59,399
Speaker 1: I'll slip up in the world and they're just kind

430
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 1: of like, and if it's like a new player, he's like,

431
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:03,880
Speaker 1: some guys don't see it for a couple of years,

432
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,040
Speaker 1: and some guys that coach stutters like so they they'll

433
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:10,719
Speaker 1: they'll see it sometimes. But stutterers have to speak at

434
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 1: a certain cadence to be fluent, and Barack Obama speaks

435
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:17,520
Speaker 1: at like the perfect cadence. So any stutter listening out there,

436
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 1: Go listen Barack Obama speak and mimic him. What was

437
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:26,720
Speaker 1: your what was your dad like? When all with all

438
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:30,399
Speaker 1: of this stuff right like you in your own I

439
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:32,440
Speaker 1: think all of us in our mind think we have talent,

440
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:37,320
Speaker 1: we can play, But you gotta stutter getting sent out

441
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:39,440
Speaker 1: all these high school as you're moving around like what what?

442
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 1: What was your relationship with your dad? Like my dad?

443
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:46,920
Speaker 1: God blessed him. Um. He's still still my closest friend

444
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,160
Speaker 1: to this day. He is old school, old school, very

445
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 1: very very rough upbringing in West Baltimore, born and raised

446
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 1: in the projects. Um, very tough, very hard, very rugged,

447
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 1: hard working. He's done construction, his poor concrete his entire life. Um. Um,

448
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:09,119
Speaker 1: very tough guy. So he didn't have the best patience

449
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 1: with the stutterer. You get it out when you're not.

450
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 1: He wasn't, and that's that's that's not the best way

451
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:20,200
Speaker 1: to be. Of course, it's the opposite, but it's him.

452
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 1: He is as tough as they come. The toughest person

453
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 1: I know, without a doubt is my father. Um. You know,

454
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:29,960
Speaker 1: and was a good player in his own right growing

455
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:35,639
Speaker 1: up from the stories I've heard, Um, but he thought

456
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,880
Speaker 1: he was very hard on me as a player, very

457
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:43,240
Speaker 1: hard on me as a player, UM to the point

458
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 1: where I didn't like him coming to my games at

459
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 1: one point because he was so hard on me. Those

460
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:52,440
Speaker 1: rides home used to be really, really tough. But you know,

461
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:54,960
Speaker 1: when I got good, it flipped, you know, and he

462
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 1: thought that I was like the best player in the world.

463
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:02,560
Speaker 1: And you know, when you hear that confidence from someone

464
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 1: that you know is so tough, it can it really,

465
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 1: it means a lot to you. It can. It can

466
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 1: take you a long way. Um. But players all over

467
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 1: the world, UM, they need to be able to honestly

468
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:20,159
Speaker 1: block out their parents opinions of them as basketball players.

469
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,159
Speaker 1: In my mind, I had to do it my parents

470
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 1: in college and professional They thought I should be averaging

471
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 1: twenty plus, I should shoot more of my teammates. They

472
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:33,720
Speaker 1: look you off. You need to be able to be

473
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 1: respectful to your parents and hear that information and know

474
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 1: that they only care about one thing, and that's not

475
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:45,359
Speaker 1: the team, not the team's success. So, and I'm speaking

476
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:49,399
Speaker 1: from experience, right, I'm on good teams and I've never

477
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:51,439
Speaker 1: miss the in Silbody tournament play nearly day one, Big

478
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:57,360
Speaker 1: Toweld championships. I got drafted. I had to say my parents,

479
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 1: like thanks, but no thing like I know you love me,

480
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 1: I love you, but let's not talk about our team.

481
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:10,639
Speaker 1: You know. It's interesting because um so not like I'm

482
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 1: running like an AU program, right, but it's it's it's kids.

483
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,359
Speaker 1: So it's elevens of four teams. And I have this

484
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:18,879
Speaker 1: kind of new tact where I just said, like, listen,

485
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 1: if you want to talk about your son, just ask

486
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 1: me about your son how is he doing? Because what

487
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:27,680
Speaker 1: parents have a tendency to do is they want to

488
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:31,440
Speaker 1: give you all their thoughts, like look, you're basically paying

489
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 1: me to coach your kid, to teach your kid basketball,

490
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:38,359
Speaker 1: So why would you do that and then tell me

491
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 1: what I'm doing wrong? Right, or tell me about some

492
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:44,359
Speaker 1: other kid about like no, no, no, The whole thing

493
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 1: is about your son's development. How's my son doing? How's

494
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,159
Speaker 1: he development? What can we do to help? That's it.

495
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 1: That's that's it. And if you want to ask like hey,

496
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,239
Speaker 1: how can you play more? Or how do we how

497
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 1: do how does he find more shots in the offense,

498
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 1: that's that's fine. But what says they divert into all

499
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:03,680
Speaker 1: these other things because they want to create some like

500
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,920
Speaker 1: utopian environment for their kids. You know, they'll cut down

501
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 1: this kid, they'll cut down that kid, like you know

502
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 1: that kid's not very good, my son is. So it's

503
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 1: a the interaction parents, And I'm you know, my dad

504
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 1: was a you know, like he was a coach, and

505
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 1: so you would have thought you've known about it. But

506
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 1: the same thing you're blinded by obviously blinded by love.

507
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:25,200
Speaker 1: Some coaches won't like talking to parents. Some coaches say,

508
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 1: I only talk about academics, I only talk about like

509
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 1: I have no problem talking basketball with parents, like absolutely none,

510
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:35,680
Speaker 1: because what they need to realize, and especially at this level,

511
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 1: is there are no ulterior motives. There is no hitting

512
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 1: agenda against your kid. If your kid is good enough

513
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 1: and he can help us win, he'll play. And if

514
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 1: you if he can really help us win, he'll play

515
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 1: a lot. And if and if he's one of our

516
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 1: best players, he'll take the most shots and he'll play

517
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 1: the most minutes. So for me, I invite every one

518
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 1: of my parents players. Parents, you can come to practice

519
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 1: win ever, like when ever, come sit and watch practice,

520
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 1: Like if we want to talk about your your son,

521
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 1: like we're gonna have a group discussion, Like I'm gonna say, hey,

522
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 1: what do we talk about? Like tell your parents why

523
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 1: you aren't playing? Like, tell your plant parents why I

524
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 1: took you out the game? Right there, Like I am

525
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 1: in my most comfortable state having those very real and

526
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 1: honest conversations with I always have been, at least in

527
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 1: my seven years of culture. Um, okay, so you get

528
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 1: the miszoo. Mike Ampston is a coach, and you had

529
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 1: a obviously had a great year go to lead ate

530
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 1: that that year. But when you first get there, it's

531
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 1: summer school. Okay, what what do you what do you think?

532
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 1: What was what was the experience I was? I was

533
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 1: the worst player on the team. I was thirteen out

534
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 1: of thirteen. I was the worst player of the team,

535
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 1: which was no different than I say this right now,

536
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 1: like maybe maybe a few times in college a few

537
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 1: times and pick up in college. I've never been the

538
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 1: best player on the court in my life ever, Like,

539
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 1: which is a great luxury to have. Like so many

540
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 1: kids in the middle of the country, if you're growing

541
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 1: up in the middle of Oklahoma or Kansas or Nebraska,

542
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 1: and you're an elite player on your worst day, you're

543
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 1: still by far the best player on the court, and

544
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 1: that's a tough place to be. I love the fact

545
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 1: that growing up I was on the court and it

546
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 1: was Malcolm Delaney out there, or Carmelo Anthony or Sam

547
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 1: Cassell or Rudy Gay or Dwan Summers or Jamaar Young

548
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 1: or Muggy Bowls or I was never the best player

549
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 1: on the court. In college, it was Demari Carroll and

550
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 1: you know, marketing them and a good player Phil Pressy

551
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 1: and Jordan Clarkson and Jabari Brown and Mike Dixon. Leo

552
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 1: Lions is nice. I like big Leo your Lions was

553
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 1: a very talented player. Um like I was the third

554
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 1: team out of thirteam. I couldn't make layups and pick

555
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 1: up I would, but it was great because when I

556
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 1: got there, my struggles in our summer pick up made

557
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 1: me really work hard. Like so I stayed at the

558
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 1: gym like it became like where they set it on

559
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 1: every single broadcast in college. But I slept in the

560
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 1: gym I freshman summer, like, I literally slept in our

561
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 1: locker room and I shot late at night. I ordered

562
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 1: some pizzas I slept, I woke up, I shot before

563
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 1: waits in the morning at seven am because I struggled

564
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 1: so bad, struggled to score, struggled to win. When you

565
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 1: don't win, you it's hard to get on the court.

566
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 1: If you're not playing well, the next teams ain't not

567
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 1: gonna pick you up to play again. So it was

568
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 1: like I really wanted to get and through that, through

569
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 1: those eight weeks of work. Towards the end of the summer,

570
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 1: I was about maybe I wasn't thirteen. I maybe went

571
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 1: up to about maybe nine, nine or eight on the

572
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 1: roster um. One of our guys key On Lawrence, transferred out,

573
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 1: so maybe I went up to number seven right rest

574
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 1: in peace Kiani's past now um. And that kept happening.

575
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 1: When we got to Big twelve play, I was starting.

576
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 1: I started through all through all the Big twelve play

577
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,720
Speaker 1: and I finished in the rotation on the team that

578
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 1: once to Elite eight and one thirty one games. You know. So, uh,

579
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 1: it was a process and the journey, but it was

580
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 1: I'm really happy about it. Like maybe if I did

581
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 1: have success when I first got to college, I wouldn't

582
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 1: have worked that hard. I thought I thought it was easy.

583
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 1: Maybe who is your roommate um that summer? It was

584
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:30,480
Speaker 1: Miguel Paul. It was Miguel Paul who transferred to East Carolina. Yeah,

585
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 1: it gets interesting because so many kids they would leave

586
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 1: right you get there. Now you get there, and pick

587
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 1: up wouldn't be good and you'd be out, not even

588
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 1: staying for first practice. I never I mean, yeah, no,

589
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 1: I never never crossed my mind. You know, I thought

590
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 1: about leaving after my junior year. I thought about it

591
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 1: for a second, and my dad shut it down after

592
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 1: one conversation. That was literally it. Okay, So I'm interested

593
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 1: in that because after your junior year, like Mike LEAs,

594
00:32:56,240 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 1: he goes to Arkansas, right and um, and you're a

595
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 1: guy who had been to one, two, three, for technically

596
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 1: five high schools, right, So leaving and changing isn't a

597
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:11,880
Speaker 1: isn't a big thing for you. What was the decision,

598
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 1: like when Frank comes in and gets the job to stay? Yeah,

599
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 1: it was. I didn't think about leaving once Mike left.

600
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 1: Mike and I've we've kind of retro retroactively. I am

601
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 1: so appreciative of how much I learned from playing from

602
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 1: Mike Anderson for three years. Like he had a huge

603
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 1: impact on who I am as a coach, Hell, who

604
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 1: I am as a man who I became as a

605
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 1: player and who I am as a coach today. In

606
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 1: what way is a man? In what way is a man? Um?

607
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 1: He is a very loyal and um strong and serious

608
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 1: coach and person. And I try to carry myself in

609
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 1: that manner, like I'm not gonna flip flop who I

610
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 1: am based on what group of people I'm talking to, Right,

611
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 1: I am the same way like and that's who he

612
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 1: was on the basketball court. Our our practices were absolute

613
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 1: you know, I hate to, you know, use the World War,

614
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:20,319
Speaker 1: but they were battles. Our practices were absolute battles, and um,

615
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:23,880
Speaker 1: you know it just uh it shaped me. It shaped

616
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:26,759
Speaker 1: me that you know, the like here, here's a great

617
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:32,399
Speaker 1: way for Mike Anderson the first day of school, let's

618
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 1: say September one, until about two weeks into practice in November.

619
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 1: So like a good bit, a good bit, you have

620
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:49,399
Speaker 1: six am workouts every single morning, six am, five days

621
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 1: a week for two and a half months, for two

622
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 1: for two for two for about for for for one

623
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 1: and a half months until about the middle of October.

624
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 1: We practiced at six am every single morning. And I

625
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:11,360
Speaker 1: think that was a huge lesson in discipline. You're practicing.

626
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 1: You can't get you don't even think about it. You

627
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:17,880
Speaker 1: are thinking, you're you're calculating those hours asleep. I mean,

628
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:21,399
Speaker 1: if you're watching a late NBA on t NC game

629
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 1: and that West Coast game is you're starting to look

630
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 1: at that clock, like, man, that game, first game in

631
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:28,239
Speaker 1: over time, you're like, you know, you start weighing those

632
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 1: opportunity costs. Like that's the worst. That's not that's not

633
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 1: the worst part. The worst part is because we used

634
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 1: to run at Oaklaham State, but only two days, two

635
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:38,279
Speaker 1: days a week at six am. The worst part is

636
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 1: the waking up because like at four four four four fifty,

637
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:47,880
Speaker 1: but you would, you'd wake up hours before, but like

638
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 1: you just go off because you don't be late. Because

639
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 1: you're late. It's oh, there's there's hell to pay. But

640
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 1: I will say this, this was always my thing with

641
00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:00,719
Speaker 1: morning workouts. I hated them. But when you were done,

642
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 1: great feeling. Oh it's the best. If you could only

643
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:09,319
Speaker 1: remember that feeling when it's time to get out of bed.

644
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:11,839
Speaker 1: But the thing that was tough about it was you're

645
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 1: an eight AM class, you're an a M class. You're

646
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:17,360
Speaker 1: like ready to crash and you're really tired. But again,

647
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 1: those things help you as a man, build care Like

648
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 1: that's why he did it, That is why he did it.

649
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 1: To this day, I need to ask him, like it

650
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 1: builds some gumption in players being able to do that

651
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 1: and withstand that and you know, really value you know

652
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:38,359
Speaker 1: what it's like to get and just knowing and just knowing, like, man,

653
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:40,400
Speaker 1: it ain't too many teams up right now getting it

654
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 1: in Like we are right and we're gonna come back

655
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:48,880
Speaker 1: and play pick up this afternoon. You know, Um, we

656
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 1: used to do this thing. If he got in trouble,

657
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:55,800
Speaker 1: you gotta five or five We got five oh five hours,

658
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 1: five in the morning. If you're if no, no, no no,

659
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:01,399
Speaker 1: if you're late, if you're just it's it's at five am.

660
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 1: If you're late for anything in my program, you have

661
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 1: a five am conditioning and it's gonna be it's gonna

662
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:10,279
Speaker 1: be a bag. Now, who's the coach you have to

663
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 1: do that? That's the worst. One's strength coach, it's our

664
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 1: strength coach. And and and I want him to hate it.

665
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 1: I want him to hate getting up at five am

666
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 1: because I want him to let that be known. And

667
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 1: if you're late again for anything, your team has a

668
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 1: five am workout. Your whole team is a five m workout.

669
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:34,279
Speaker 1: And if you're late a third time for something, your

670
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 1: team has a five m workout and you have to watch.

671
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:39,759
Speaker 1: You can't run, you have to sit in a chair

672
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:42,839
Speaker 1: while your team is running. And then if you're laid again,

673
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 1: you have a problem and you're probably gonna leave our program.

674
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,719
Speaker 1: But that's our that's our that is who we that's

675
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:50,719
Speaker 1: who we are. You know that that's who we are

676
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:55,400
Speaker 1: as a program. Okay, so um, yeah, the five and

677
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,879
Speaker 1: five is it was great and it happened a couple

678
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:02,239
Speaker 1: of times. And you everybody gets in a van. We

679
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 1: got in trouble for like a party or something that

680
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:09,520
Speaker 1: somebody gotta fight poling a van and you've been stillwater.

681
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 1: You've been five miles up still the still water. There's

682
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:15,279
Speaker 1: nothing like literally started the gym, said the odometer. Drive

683
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 1: down a little country road, right, gets to five miles.

684
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 1: Everybody get out and they turn lights and they drive

685
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 1: behind you as you're running. Right. So we had this

686
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:28,400
Speaker 1: dude to Stell last one. Stell was really talented combo guard. Uh.

687
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:30,880
Speaker 1: He end up transferred to TCU and he was he

688
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 1: always literally never went to a practice. I could track

689
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 1: it where he didn't come down with a roll ankle

690
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:42,320
Speaker 1: hip like he just always hurt dude, right, So he

691
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 1: steps in, all yeah, every knows that guy. So he

692
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 1: steps in a hole like two and a half miles in,

693
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, it falls out, right, So they got

694
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 1: a trainer in the van. They it's like the Tour

695
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:55,880
Speaker 1: de France, right, they put him in the van. So

696
00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 1: how's the running? Like began this ship, you know. So

697
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 1: we get back and you know, we're tired. Sol after noon,

698
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 1: we're playing pickup ball and the steale comes like hobbling in.

699
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 1: He's shooting a little bit. You know, he just got

700
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:14,440
Speaker 1: treatment and like he wants like hopping and running and

701
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:18,799
Speaker 1: we're like, damn, that dude is smart, Like he had

702
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 1: just rolling ankle. You're done, You're good, So flash you

703
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 1: the next morning five am. They kind of get up

704
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:31,319
Speaker 1: out about it. That back the exact same spot where

705
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:40,960
Speaker 1: he fell out the door. So so so Mike leaves, right,

706
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 1: and uh, did anybody ask your guys opinion on on

707
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 1: the job, Like when they hired Frank, Like, did anybody

708
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,080
Speaker 1: ask ask you guys? Know? They didn't. It was no,

709
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:54,399
Speaker 1: it actually worked out Frank accruited me out of high

710
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:57,440
Speaker 1: school and I wanted to go to Miami. I was

711
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 1: going to commit to Miami on my visit, um Jack

712
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:03,279
Speaker 1: Mclinton was there back from Baltimore. I was gonna go

713
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 1: play my freshman year with Jack his senior year and

714
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 1: it was done. That was, it was done. My visit

715
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:11,319
Speaker 1: was like September sevent I think I got a call

716
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:14,399
Speaker 1: on it was September eleven, but it was around there

717
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 1: Monday morning and it was Frank saying that day Kwan

718
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:24,320
Speaker 1: Jones and just committed. So basically that's yeah. So it

719
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:29,319
Speaker 1: then turned to Cincinnati, Tennessee and Missouri and UM ended

720
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:31,440
Speaker 1: up at Missouri and UH, but Frank and I we

721
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 1: didn't stay contact at all through those three next three years.

722
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:37,279
Speaker 1: But he called me the same number, same number till

723
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:40,839
Speaker 1: this day, and uh it was an unknown number called

724
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:43,440
Speaker 1: me and I answered it and he was like, I

725
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:45,840
Speaker 1: told you I'd beat you a coach one day. And

726
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:47,719
Speaker 1: I was like coach hey, He was like yeah, I was.

727
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:52,360
Speaker 1: And I was really excited UM because I always always

728
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 1: always had the utmost respect for him as an offensive

729
00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:02,680
Speaker 1: basketball coach, really really really good offensive basketball coach. And

730
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:07,120
Speaker 1: UM the rest is history. I mean, we were the

731
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 1: number one rated offensive team and Kim Pom we scored

732
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 1: a lot of point shout a lot of threes. We

733
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:14,799
Speaker 1: all were wildly efficient. I mean I shot forty six

734
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:16,919
Speaker 1: from three. Ricardo Rattle of lead the nation of field

735
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 1: goal percentage markets demon numbers were ridiculous. Phil Pressy broke

736
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 1: Missouri's assist record in three years. Mike Dixon was a

737
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:28,200
Speaker 1: bucket getter, um and it was you know, I think

738
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:33,960
Speaker 1: you know, he was the reason that Mike Bray did

739
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:36,359
Speaker 1: what he did at Notre Dame. With Pat Connachton moving

740
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 1: in into four, we beat that Notre Dame team a

741
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 1: year before by like fifty it was actually fifty I think,

742
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 1: and um the next year or two two years later,

743
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 1: they were playing the exact same way. Like Bill self

744
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:54,719
Speaker 1: has given coach pay credit. You know, when he had

745
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 1: Wiggins and he put Wiggins at the four, like you know,

746
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 1: he here's here's how far it goes back show. So

747
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 1: when I got to O s U S this is

748
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:05,759
Speaker 1: nineties seven, then we moved des and Mason to the four,

749
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:09,399
Speaker 1: and that was about as small as we could get

750
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:12,399
Speaker 1: coached to play because the next year we had Glenn

751
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:16,120
Speaker 1: Alexander as well, and our five best players were guards.

752
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:19,480
Speaker 1: We we played small one half of one game we lost.

753
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:22,400
Speaker 1: The Texas won the league that year. It was Rick's

754
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:25,919
Speaker 1: first year, and the only way we could get close

755
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:29,840
Speaker 1: with them was by playing small, and just coach just

756
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 1: couldn't we played small at the time. But small was

757
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 1: Desmond at the four and even and even Jay Wright

758
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 1: when he went with the four guards. But like Foyd

759
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:41,880
Speaker 1: was still like Foyd. Foyd was a powerful for he was,

760
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:44,319
Speaker 1: but he was a brewer. He was posting up still,

761
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:47,160
Speaker 1: you know, even though he was a perimeter player. But

762
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:50,359
Speaker 1: Foyd was he was a big, strong post up four

763
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:53,040
Speaker 1: um even though he's a guard. You know, we we

764
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:55,000
Speaker 1: kind of I don't know what I know. Desmon was

765
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:57,920
Speaker 1: freak athlete, remember of Seattle UM, But I don't know.

766
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:01,360
Speaker 1: I don't remember his college game. But I wasn't posting

767
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:04,880
Speaker 1: up at all, right, I was really post he I mean,

768
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 1: he was a dunker, he could handle a little bit.

769
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:10,399
Speaker 1: He became a he made shots. I would I would

770
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 1: never never say like he was a shooter, but damn

771
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:14,759
Speaker 1: he made a lot of shots this senior year. But

772
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 1: it wasn't It wasn't like you what you guys were doing,

773
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:20,600
Speaker 1: UM backed on me as a player and a coach,

774
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 1: and it uh, it really helped prepare me for life

775
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 1: in the pros and understand the terminology and system and methodology,

776
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:33,760
Speaker 1: methodology and um and it's it's made a big impact

777
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:37,239
Speaker 1: on me as an offensive coach. And how do you

778
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:40,360
Speaker 1: now years later? I don't. I don't know if you

779
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:43,240
Speaker 1: know that. I think you're the only team to shoot.

780
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:49,560
Speaker 1: It was like fifty forty and eighty and loose, right,

781
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:52,359
Speaker 1: and and it was I mean Norfolk State was they

782
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:54,319
Speaker 1: would they? I mean it was just running a fever.

783
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 1: They were unbelievable. Um so, but like you guys had

784
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 1: an unreal year and you lose, whereas there's other teams

785
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 1: that don't really have great years, don't really have great teams,

786
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:06,759
Speaker 1: and yet they find a way to put together and

787
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:08,120
Speaker 1: get to an Elite eight or a five. I mean

788
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 1: even George Mason, where you now coach, right, that team

789
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:14,239
Speaker 1: shouldn't have been in the n c A tournament really,

790
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:16,400
Speaker 1: I mean it just shouldn't based upon how they always

791
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:18,719
Speaker 1: do stuff, but they put it together. How do you

792
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 1: how do you years later contextualize that in your mind?

793
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:25,920
Speaker 1: How good that team was except for one team scored

794
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:30,520
Speaker 1: one more bucket than you did. Unfortunate I had two points.

795
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:36,800
Speaker 1: I had two points, average fifteen. I was one for

796
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:39,480
Speaker 1: eight from the field. Um, I took a knee of

797
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:42,400
Speaker 1: the quad and a Big twelve semis and I just

798
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:44,719
Speaker 1: wasn't right. Some other stuff went on that I think

799
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 1: kind of had us off that day. UM. I put

800
00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:54,719
Speaker 1: it like this, I wish I did not win the

801
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 1: Big Twelve Tournament Most Outstanding Player. I wish I didn't

802
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:04,520
Speaker 1: win it, um, because we kind of in those games

803
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:09,440
Speaker 1: against the Norfolk States and those buy games type of opponents.

804
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:15,480
Speaker 1: Guys on the team's gonna win, So just go get

805
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 1: your numbers, right, go and get your numbers. Every college

806
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:22,359
Speaker 1: basketball player in the world thinks they are one good

807
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:25,520
Speaker 1: n C double a tournament again to to to making

808
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:29,719
Speaker 1: themselves skyrocket up the draft board, right, and it's ridiculous.

809
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:35,000
Speaker 1: But we had guys focused on that getting buckets. Because

810
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:36,800
Speaker 1: I wish I did not win the m v P

811
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 1: of the Big twelf t, I wish someone else wanted

812
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 1: so our mind could have been where it was for

813
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:43,960
Speaker 1: the rest of that season. But UM, here's how I

814
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:46,640
Speaker 1: conceptualize it. It. I know we were a good team.

815
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:50,719
Speaker 1: We're a great team. But people value the n C

816
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:54,160
Speaker 1: Double a tournament. Um, they value it a lot. You know,

817
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:56,279
Speaker 1: if you were in the first four like U C

818
00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 1: l A, like bc U two thousand and ten, or

819
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:01,319
Speaker 1: left whenever they when you go to the final four,

820
00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:03,640
Speaker 1: like what U c l A did from the first

821
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:07,200
Speaker 1: flour it it carries a lot of weight and value

822
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:10,480
Speaker 1: and that's what people remember. UM. I think that the

823
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:15,120
Speaker 1: people that matter remember us for what we were and

824
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 1: um more importantly, I'm really excited as a head coach

825
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:24,399
Speaker 1: to try to create that same type of team now

826
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:31,000
Speaker 1: I've been that team was a drug man. The way

827
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 1: we played offense, the way we got along, the way

828
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:35,600
Speaker 1: we shared the ball was a drug. And it was

829
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 1: a drug that I've been trying to find since two

830
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:40,759
Speaker 1: thousand and twelve, and I've not founded on any team,

831
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:42,880
Speaker 1: and I would think I I it was it was

832
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 1: funny is I left. I helped rebuild it Tad at Colorado,

833
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:54,600
Speaker 1: and then I left when they found that drug in

834
00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:57,160
Speaker 1: Colorado has been living off that drug the last two years.

835
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:03,279
Speaker 1: And I got to Tennessee US after they had you

836
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:06,440
Speaker 1: for a drug. So I build it and left it

837
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:08,880
Speaker 1: and just went and was in the process of rebuilding

838
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:13,080
Speaker 1: it Tennessee. But um, you know, it's tough with a couple.

839
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:16,560
Speaker 1: Here's the here's the thing that that's interesting about it.

840
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:19,880
Speaker 1: So I did a pod we recorded yesterday and my

841
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:23,000
Speaker 1: team we didn't get the fine flour right country. Did

842
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:27,759
Speaker 1: John Lucas and the Graham twins did? We didn't. But

843
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:31,759
Speaker 1: and I think it's because the way you described it

844
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:36,480
Speaker 1: is perfect, which I hadn't thought of, was we were

845
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:39,239
Speaker 1: that we were that drug right. We just it was

846
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:44,319
Speaker 1: we legitimately liked each other, we loved and we had

847
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:46,879
Speaker 1: we had figured for the most part, I figured out

848
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:50,000
Speaker 1: how to how to play for coach right, like just

849
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:52,279
Speaker 1: it ain't easy. And if you're there your first like

850
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:54,480
Speaker 1: your first year, just kind of spending your first year

851
00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:56,799
Speaker 1: or two doing it. We'd all kind of figured out.

852
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:00,520
Speaker 1: And we loved the town, we loved each other, and

853
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:03,680
Speaker 1: but more than anything, how we played was like music, right,

854
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 1: and it just worked. Everybody knew it did what they

855
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:09,000
Speaker 1: would Desmond with the dunks and the threes and the

856
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:12,319
Speaker 1: and the celebrations, and we had all these other dudes

857
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:13,920
Speaker 1: that did all and I just I just passed and

858
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:16,400
Speaker 1: didn't shot right, and that was just our thing. The

859
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:18,400
Speaker 1: drug is that It's a perfect way to describe it,

860
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 1: because I was trying to figure out why people like

861
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:26,000
Speaker 1: our group so much when we didn't win ship, we

862
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:27,719
Speaker 1: didn't win a big twelve, we didn't win a big

863
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:29,839
Speaker 1: toel tournament, we didn't want any tournament. We didn't get

864
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:33,200
Speaker 1: to the final four. But it's because that does translate,

865
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:36,520
Speaker 1: and your Missouri team did translate that you like, I

866
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:38,239
Speaker 1: just like to watch him play. I don't know a

867
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:40,600
Speaker 1: single kid at havin that team. You know, I didn't know.

868
00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:44,520
Speaker 1: I've done Frank's games. But I just enjoyed. I enjoyed

869
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 1: the two hours of watching you guys play together. It

870
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:50,000
Speaker 1: was awesome. Yeah, it's it's it's it's it's the way

871
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:52,759
Speaker 1: the game it's meant to be played. Man. You know, uh,

872
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:58,080
Speaker 1: Pete Karil has a quality, says, you know, crisp ball movement.

873
00:48:58,239 --> 00:49:02,560
Speaker 1: Crisp and consistent ball movement relieves the tension in the offense.

874
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 1: And this pounded, pounded dribble drive it it's tension, man,

875
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:12,080
Speaker 1: it is tension, and you know it's funny and ironic.

876
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:15,240
Speaker 1: The teams that we struggled with, we had four losses

877
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:19,680
Speaker 1: that year, Kansas State beat US twice. I know, I

878
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:21,919
Speaker 1: know you did do that again. You know the team

879
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:24,400
Speaker 1: that didn't allow us to pass the ball. You know

880
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:26,799
Speaker 1: we we we couldn't pass the ball. So the team

881
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:30,680
Speaker 1: that took that away beat us twice. And you know,

882
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:33,759
Speaker 1: so it's uh, but now it's a euphoric feeling, man,

883
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:38,320
Speaker 1: and it's uh. It's a beautiful thing. Um Okay, So

884
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:42,520
Speaker 1: the NBA summer late, what was that experience like for

885
00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:45,440
Speaker 1: summer leave? Was great? You know, it was an extension

886
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:49,320
Speaker 1: of college and you know it. Actually, I will say this,

887
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:53,520
Speaker 1: I just thought of this when you asked that question

888
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:56,800
Speaker 1: talking about we talking my summer league experience might be

889
00:49:56,960 --> 00:50:00,840
Speaker 1: the reason I'm not in the NBA today because I

890
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:05,360
Speaker 1: had great success. When I explained first get into college,

891
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 1: the first thing I said was I was thirteen. I

892
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:12,280
Speaker 1: was the worst thing. You know. I worked really hard

893
00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:14,520
Speaker 1: because we lost so early in the n C Double

894
00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:18,280
Speaker 1: A Tournament. I had like a chip on my shoulder

895
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:22,279
Speaker 1: that was like unreal. Like I dove right into I

896
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:24,840
Speaker 1: took no time off. I do right. In the pre draft,

897
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:28,080
Speaker 1: I signed with Leon rose Um. I told him he

898
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:30,759
Speaker 1: could send me anywhere. I'd work out against anybody. I

899
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:36,000
Speaker 1: worked out for twenty two teams, interviewed for twenty twenty

900
00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:38,840
Speaker 1: three workouts for twenty two teams, had the pacers twice.

901
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:43,799
Speaker 1: And I worked really hard, and that work carried right

902
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:46,000
Speaker 1: in the Summer League, and I was ready, and I

903
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:49,200
Speaker 1: think I averaged like I might have averaged eighteen points

904
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:52,000
Speaker 1: in Summer League. I played really well. I was all

905
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:58,360
Speaker 1: all Summer League. And that success and the thought of

906
00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:00,360
Speaker 1: I tell us to recruit all the time. Um, it

907
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:02,320
Speaker 1: was my dream to get to the league. I was

908
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:05,680
Speaker 1: obsessed about it. I was gonna get to the league

909
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:07,719
Speaker 1: like nothing was gonna stop me from getting that. So

910
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:10,680
Speaker 1: I got there. I signed my rookie deal. I had

911
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:13,640
Speaker 1: success in Summer League, and I did the absolute worst

912
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:19,600
Speaker 1: thing you could do. I realized my dream. I thought

913
00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:22,800
Speaker 1: I made it. I thought I was everyone. Everyone that

914
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:25,240
Speaker 1: I ever talked to was like, dude, you're a great

915
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:27,640
Speaker 1: locker room guy and you're a shooter. You're gonna play

916
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:29,120
Speaker 1: fifteen years in the league. Man, you're gonna be like

917
00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:32,040
Speaker 1: Mike Miller and and James James Jones. Like you're gonna play.

918
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:34,719
Speaker 1: You're gonna be good, man, You're gonna be a so

919
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:38,560
Speaker 1: I lost my edge. Yeah, I got done Summer League

920
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:41,359
Speaker 1: in Orlando. I got Summer League in Orlando, and I'm like, man,

921
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:43,600
Speaker 1: I got some money in my pocket, like what. I

922
00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:46,480
Speaker 1: went to Vegas. I went to Vegas to watch Summer

923
00:51:46,560 --> 00:51:49,240
Speaker 1: League again and hang with my boys and my family.

924
00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:52,400
Speaker 1: And and I thought I arrived. I thought I made it,

925
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:56,400
Speaker 1: and I didn't. I wasn't at the practicality late at

926
00:51:56,480 --> 00:51:58,359
Speaker 1: night like I was in college. I wasn't up early

927
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:00,120
Speaker 1: in the morning get it. I was still of the

928
00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:02,279
Speaker 1: first ones to facility. I was one of the last

929
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:05,560
Speaker 1: ones the league. But I wasn't doing And I ain't

930
00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:07,560
Speaker 1: got that type of talent, right, I ain't got the

931
00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:11,399
Speaker 1: just ridiculous. I have good talent. I'm a piece talent.

932
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:14,880
Speaker 1: I'm a piece of talent. I gotta work to maintain that.

933
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:19,160
Speaker 1: And uh. And I realized too late that my goal,

934
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:21,920
Speaker 1: my dream, was wrong and it was fatal to my career.

935
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:24,040
Speaker 1: My dreams should have been not to get to the league,

936
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:26,200
Speaker 1: but to play ten years in the league, stay in

937
00:52:26,239 --> 00:52:28,239
Speaker 1: the league, to become a Hall of Famer and All

938
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:31,719
Speaker 1: Star champion, you know, like in the starter. And you know,

939
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:35,600
Speaker 1: I started off the season in the rotation. But it

940
00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:38,800
Speaker 1: was on a bad team. We lost rotations change and

941
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:40,800
Speaker 1: um I was in and I was out like that.

942
00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:46,560
Speaker 1: So as I transitioned to coaching, that is a story

943
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:49,520
Speaker 1: that our players know, well, they know that story. Well,

944
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:53,880
Speaker 1: what what is that like? Though, I'm I what is

945
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:56,120
Speaker 1: the what is the feeling like? Obviously you think you

946
00:52:56,160 --> 00:52:59,160
Speaker 1: maybe when you sign your deal. Yeah, your first game

947
00:52:59,239 --> 00:53:03,239
Speaker 1: was against Houston and yeah, okay, on the first one

948
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:07,760
Speaker 1: you played in was Houston Halloween and again you had success.

949
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:11,600
Speaker 1: You had you had eight points, right, should have won.

950
00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:13,200
Speaker 1: I mean I had a chance to win the game,

951
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:17,239
Speaker 1: to win the game, Omar Seek blocked my shot. I

952
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:19,640
Speaker 1: had a chance to win the game. I took the

953
00:53:19,719 --> 00:53:22,640
Speaker 1: shot to win the game in your your first in

954
00:53:22,719 --> 00:53:25,359
Speaker 1: your first in your first game. What's that like though,

955
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:27,560
Speaker 1: to see walk in the locker room and see your

956
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:31,719
Speaker 1: jersey and English on the back pistons that later and

957
00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:36,000
Speaker 1: you've already played your preseason, You've already it's it's it's

958
00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 1: you get over it, honestly, you you get over that

959
00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:42,000
Speaker 1: during the draft process, like you stopped Yeah, you stopped looking.

960
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:45,360
Speaker 1: I stopped being in all of NBA guys during the

961
00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:51,120
Speaker 1: draft process, Like I started looking like Ben Gordon like competition,

962
00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:55,080
Speaker 1: Like I stopped having a ridiculous like one Dixon to

963
00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:57,880
Speaker 1: me is like like I don't mean this literally, but

964
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:00,800
Speaker 1: there's like it's like Jesus, my dad one Dixon Like

965
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:04,640
Speaker 1: these is my dad, Carmelo Anthony one Dixon, Like that's

966
00:54:04,680 --> 00:54:09,520
Speaker 1: my like everything Marcus hadden't when you're going through the

967
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:12,320
Speaker 1: draft process, you gotta lose that quickly because it's just

968
00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:15,479
Speaker 1: so competitive, like you ain't got time, man, you ain't

969
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:18,520
Speaker 1: got like it's Kobe, Like, yeah, that's Kobe, but you're

970
00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:21,480
Speaker 1: guarding him tonight, like you're like you're sitting there with

971
00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:24,080
Speaker 1: your assistant coach for the game, watching film with Kobe. Like,

972
00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:28,040
Speaker 1: so you lose that pretty quickly. Um, yeah, well at

973
00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:31,240
Speaker 1: least I did. I lost the oddness of the NBA

974
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:34,600
Speaker 1: pretty quickly. What what was what was it like to

975
00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:39,440
Speaker 1: check Kobe? It was it was awesome. You know. It

976
00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:43,480
Speaker 1: was our third game of the season and they were

977
00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:46,440
Speaker 1: owing three at the time. Mike Brown was there, and

978
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:49,800
Speaker 1: I lined up for the national anthem and I'm standing

979
00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:52,560
Speaker 1: on the other side of the bench of Staples and

980
00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:55,800
Speaker 1: courtside and literally right there who stands up at his

981
00:54:55,880 --> 00:54:59,600
Speaker 1: seat is Antonio Banderas, and I'm like okay, and then

982
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:03,120
Speaker 1: Kobe runs out just with for the national anthem. And

983
00:55:03,239 --> 00:55:05,480
Speaker 1: Kobe is standing there, He's right by the Lakers bench,

984
00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:08,359
Speaker 1: and he's like just twirling his ankles. I'm just watching him.

985
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:10,319
Speaker 1: I'm not looking at the flag. I'm just watching him.

986
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:14,040
Speaker 1: Usually I pray during every national anthem. I just watched Kobe.

987
00:55:14,040 --> 00:55:16,000
Speaker 1: He was just twirling his ankles like just you know.

988
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:19,520
Speaker 1: And I had this thought popped into my mind at

989
00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:24,200
Speaker 1: the first time, and I said to myself, like, as

990
00:55:24,280 --> 00:55:27,320
Speaker 1: he was standing there for that national anthem, all I

991
00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:31,840
Speaker 1: could think about was how many national anthems and that

992
00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:36,440
Speaker 1: year and year fifteen or sixteen maybe he had been through.

993
00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:39,240
Speaker 1: I think it was your seventeen. How many national anthems

994
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:41,360
Speaker 1: he had been through? And I came up with the

995
00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:49,040
Speaker 1: math quickly. Kobe Bryant had been in the NBA for

996
00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:53,759
Speaker 1: more days of his life then he had not at

997
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:58,040
Speaker 1: that moment think about that. So from one to seventeen

998
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:01,279
Speaker 1: think about first of life loved way. My mind works

999
00:56:01,320 --> 00:56:03,080
Speaker 1: the exact same way when you think of you think

1000
00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:05,719
Speaker 1: of things like this at at times where everybody's like,

1001
00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:07,399
Speaker 1: what were you thinking, Like that's actually what I was thinking,

1002
00:56:07,600 --> 00:56:11,120
Speaker 1: think about from age one, age birth to seven, Yes,

1003
00:56:11,239 --> 00:56:17,160
Speaker 1: from draft until like he had done that more more

1004
00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:20,840
Speaker 1: times that he had motors lawn mode a lawn he

1005
00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:26,560
Speaker 1: had he had he had ran back in transition more

1006
00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:30,000
Speaker 1: times than he had taken out the trash, like and

1007
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:31,560
Speaker 1: that was in my mind at that moment. When the

1008
00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:34,319
Speaker 1: game started, it was good. We competed. Um, he had

1009
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:37,200
Speaker 1: no respect for me, Like I got I scored because

1010
00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:39,640
Speaker 1: he just didn't know, like he was like I got open,

1011
00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:43,600
Speaker 1: I scored wide open shots. Um, I fouled him one

1012
00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:46,400
Speaker 1: time I didn't. They called foul. He slapped me on

1013
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:49,320
Speaker 1: the button said said good d young fella, and like,

1014
00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:53,560
Speaker 1: uh no, he was great, Actually I was. I took

1015
00:56:53,560 --> 00:56:56,440
Speaker 1: a picture the other day, a screenshot at a picture

1016
00:56:56,520 --> 00:56:58,320
Speaker 1: the other day of me guarding him, and it's a

1017
00:56:58,920 --> 00:57:02,759
Speaker 1: it's one of my favorite pick which is, um, I'm

1018
00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:04,400
Speaker 1: at the top and it's at the bottom of my

1019
00:57:04,920 --> 00:57:08,280
Speaker 1: I thought I screenshot it. Yeah, screenshot took a screenshop

1020
00:57:08,320 --> 00:57:13,800
Speaker 1: popped up on my feet. But like that's ah. It

1021
00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:18,080
Speaker 1: was a really cool moment. Um k D A couple

1022
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:21,160
Speaker 1: nice later, you guys played against k D. Now you

1023
00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:25,080
Speaker 1: mentioned all these Baltimore dudes. You no mention of k D.

1024
00:57:25,320 --> 00:57:27,800
Speaker 1: But he's got Baltimore. He's more d C. He's more people,

1025
00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:31,760
Speaker 1: I understand. But we like again, it's hard because like

1026
00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:34,880
Speaker 1: l A guys, we take everybody we called, We count

1027
00:57:34,920 --> 00:57:39,200
Speaker 1: everybody people. They like everybody. We count everybody from the

1028
00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:42,000
Speaker 1: same state. He's from Maryland, but it's it's not Baltimore.

1029
00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:47,040
Speaker 1: Baltimore's kind of like Memphis. Like Memphis is in Tennessee, Memphis, Memphis.

1030
00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:51,080
Speaker 1: Baltimore is in Maryland. But no one from Baltimore says

1031
00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:55,080
Speaker 1: there from Maryland, like you're from Baltimore. See Pleasant, Maryland

1032
00:57:55,560 --> 00:57:57,760
Speaker 1: is a suburb of d C. It's p G County.

1033
00:57:57,880 --> 00:58:01,920
Speaker 1: That's Mike Beasley, Tawan Lawson, I mean ridiculous basketball, like

1034
00:58:02,040 --> 00:58:07,240
Speaker 1: great basketball. Um no, I mean obviously Katie's I mean great.

1035
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:09,360
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, we played him a few nights later.

1036
00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:12,280
Speaker 1: That was the night I was. That was like, I

1037
00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:14,120
Speaker 1: think that was like my last I think I think

1038
00:58:14,160 --> 00:58:15,760
Speaker 1: it was more than a few nights later. I feel

1039
00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:17,200
Speaker 1: like it was a little bit later in the season.

1040
00:58:17,640 --> 00:58:20,280
Speaker 1: I feel like that trip was you know, that trip

1041
00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:24,480
Speaker 1: was Houston. No, we were home in Houston. It was Phoenix,

1042
00:58:24,840 --> 00:58:30,800
Speaker 1: l A, Sacramento, then Houston. Yes, that's the start start

1043
00:58:30,840 --> 00:58:37,440
Speaker 1: of the season. Yeah, you guys lost all of them, Houston, Phoenix, Lakers, Kings,

1044
00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:42,200
Speaker 1: Houston and that second game of Houston, I had got

1045
00:58:42,280 --> 00:58:45,200
Speaker 1: taken out of rotation because of some bad defense the

1046
00:58:45,280 --> 00:58:48,760
Speaker 1: night before in Sacramento. I don't know why. I didn't think.

1047
00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:51,400
Speaker 1: I went under a gymmer for that screen and he

1048
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:57,640
Speaker 1: like banged the bomb, and uh, yeah, what is the

1049
00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:04,960
Speaker 1: feeling like to lose that NBA game? Right? Uh? It sucks,

1050
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:10,320
Speaker 1: It sucks, It sucks. It really sucks. Um you know,

1051
00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:11,960
Speaker 1: and you don't realize how much it sucks at the

1052
00:59:12,040 --> 00:59:17,440
Speaker 1: moment um. There were a couple opportunities to stay in

1053
00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:19,960
Speaker 1: the league that I probably should have taken. At an

1054
00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:24,400
Speaker 1: opportunity to go to camp with Portland's UM, I should

1055
00:59:24,400 --> 00:59:28,040
Speaker 1: have done it. Uh. I turned down a really big

1056
00:59:28,160 --> 00:59:32,200
Speaker 1: contract in Moscow, still with hopes of getting back in

1057
00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:34,360
Speaker 1: the league. I ended up with a good deal in Italy.

1058
00:59:34,960 --> 00:59:36,479
Speaker 1: But when you get out of the league, it's really

1059
00:59:36,520 --> 00:59:40,880
Speaker 1: really hard to get back. And what people don't realize

1060
00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:44,080
Speaker 1: is it's because when you've played this one year, just

1061
00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:47,600
Speaker 1: one year in the NBA, the knowledge gained about the

1062
00:59:47,680 --> 00:59:49,960
Speaker 1: game and the understanding of how to play the game.

1063
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:52,960
Speaker 1: It's so much like people that played two years and

1064
00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:54,920
Speaker 1: three years in four years. I have so much respect

1065
00:59:55,000 --> 00:59:59,360
Speaker 1: for you know how many reps they've got done doing

1066
00:59:59,400 --> 01:00:02,880
Speaker 1: it the right, um, like six thousand times the reps

1067
01:00:03,160 --> 01:00:06,680
Speaker 1: of anyone else. And but here's the dilemma. When you're

1068
01:00:06,680 --> 01:00:09,320
Speaker 1: trying to get back in the league. You're having to

1069
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:14,120
Speaker 1: go back to Summer league. In summer league is college basketball,

1070
01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:20,520
Speaker 1: and you're playing NBA basketball with college players that don't

1071
01:00:20,520 --> 01:00:24,360
Speaker 1: know nothing. So it's really hard to get back in

1072
01:00:24,440 --> 01:00:27,240
Speaker 1: the league because you're playing with guys. I think there's

1073
01:00:27,240 --> 01:00:30,800
Speaker 1: the thing. It's you actually nailed the whole thing in

1074
01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:35,480
Speaker 1: terms of you personally with with the Pistons and Summer

1075
01:00:35,560 --> 01:00:40,360
Speaker 1: League and and and winning the Big Twelve Tournament m

1076
01:00:40,440 --> 01:00:42,680
Speaker 1: v P. It's all kind of the same. Like had

1077
01:00:42,760 --> 01:00:46,440
Speaker 1: you gone from Italy to Russia to France to the NBA,

1078
01:00:47,520 --> 01:00:51,680
Speaker 1: you know, you'd still be in the NBA. Once you've

1079
01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:54,200
Speaker 1: been in the NBA, you're like, are you kidding me?

1080
01:00:54,680 --> 01:00:59,680
Speaker 1: You want me to do what you and play conversation

1081
01:00:59,720 --> 01:01:02,400
Speaker 1: about things, and you're not arrogant, You really do know

1082
01:01:02,760 --> 01:01:04,880
Speaker 1: it's not arrogant at all. You just when when you're

1083
01:01:04,920 --> 01:01:08,160
Speaker 1: in the NBA, yes, you understand when you when when

1084
01:01:08,160 --> 01:01:11,680
Speaker 1: you've been in high major college basketball, you understand the

1085
01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:15,640
Speaker 1: standard operating procedure. Right. So, I'm in the NBA and

1086
01:01:15,720 --> 01:01:19,120
Speaker 1: you're a professional. You you land in l A, land

1087
01:01:19,160 --> 01:01:20,520
Speaker 1: in l A. If you want to go to dinner

1088
01:01:20,920 --> 01:01:22,520
Speaker 1: at whatever, you want to go shopping, you do whatever

1089
01:01:22,560 --> 01:01:24,160
Speaker 1: you want to do. You got a friend that works

1090
01:01:24,200 --> 01:01:28,920
Speaker 1: at US. So now I'm overseas and I land in

1091
01:01:29,040 --> 01:01:32,280
Speaker 1: Paris and my best friend Keith Ramsey lives in Paris,

1092
01:01:33,160 --> 01:01:35,600
Speaker 1: and I'm like, we we we land. I'm like, I'm

1093
01:01:35,600 --> 01:01:37,360
Speaker 1: gonna go. I'll see you got him to go at

1094
01:01:37,440 --> 01:01:42,160
Speaker 1: dinner with Keith at on Sean's Lazy And they're like, no,

1095
01:01:42,360 --> 01:01:47,560
Speaker 1: we have team dinner. I'm like what, like, yes, where

1096
01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:50,320
Speaker 1: your swell your team issued sweatsuit to dinner. I'm like

1097
01:01:51,520 --> 01:01:57,240
Speaker 1: you're you're thirty six? Like what Like? I'm like, okay,

1098
01:01:57,280 --> 01:01:59,360
Speaker 1: I'll go to dinner, all right, I'll wear to team sweatsuite.

1099
01:01:59,480 --> 01:02:01,280
Speaker 1: I'm at dinner and i sit down and I'm like

1100
01:02:01,680 --> 01:02:04,520
Speaker 1: all right, text and Keith, hey you after this dinner? Hey?

1101
01:02:04,720 --> 01:02:10,960
Speaker 1: Uh No, phones like what like, yeah, you get done

1102
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:14,760
Speaker 1: dinner and no, you gotta wait until the captain says

1103
01:02:14,800 --> 01:02:18,760
Speaker 1: we can leave. I'm like, what, like, I played my

1104
01:02:18,880 --> 01:02:21,800
Speaker 1: first game in the Italian League and at twenty nine,

1105
01:02:22,040 --> 01:02:24,440
Speaker 1: at twenty nine points, my first game Italian leagu against

1106
01:02:24,440 --> 01:02:27,440
Speaker 1: Bolognan and it's before you have a y early game.

1107
01:02:27,440 --> 01:02:30,280
Speaker 1: In the next game against Galatessaa. I played Galax Tessa

1108
01:02:30,400 --> 01:02:34,479
Speaker 1: in the preseason Carlos a royal Um Jaima and Gordon.

1109
01:02:34,520 --> 01:02:36,960
Speaker 1: I had thirty great thirty in the preseason, same team,

1110
01:02:37,600 --> 01:02:40,080
Speaker 1: twenty nine or whatever against Bologna, my first Italian I

1111
01:02:40,120 --> 01:02:43,160
Speaker 1: have a meeting the next day with the president of

1112
01:02:43,200 --> 01:02:47,320
Speaker 1: the team and the general manager and I'm hey, what's up, guys?

1113
01:02:48,000 --> 01:02:53,080
Speaker 1: He said, yes, good win last night. Um, when you

1114
01:02:53,280 --> 01:02:56,120
Speaker 1: make threes, we want you to be more, you know,

1115
01:02:56,400 --> 01:02:58,440
Speaker 1: like tell the guys, get up, get up, you know,

1116
01:02:58,720 --> 01:03:04,840
Speaker 1: tell the fans. I was like, what, Like, I don't

1117
01:03:04,920 --> 01:03:08,160
Speaker 1: celebrate baskets. That's not me. I've never did though. I've

1118
01:03:08,240 --> 01:03:10,840
Speaker 1: never done that. I run back on defense like and

1119
01:03:10,960 --> 01:03:13,520
Speaker 1: then there was like, you can't do that. I was like, no,

1120
01:03:14,240 --> 01:03:16,120
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna like I'm here to You're paying me

1121
01:03:16,200 --> 01:03:20,680
Speaker 1: to play basketball. I'm not gonna and the next game

1122
01:03:21,040 --> 01:03:23,800
Speaker 1: our your league game in Florence, italygas Gala Tessa Rod

1123
01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:29,960
Speaker 1: I played seven minutes at twenty nine points, with seven

1124
01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:32,800
Speaker 1: minutes of this game, and I'm like, is this I

1125
01:03:32,960 --> 01:03:36,960
Speaker 1: call my agent, like is this real? Like so you

1126
01:03:37,080 --> 01:03:39,720
Speaker 1: said it? If I would have never experienced the NBA

1127
01:03:40,160 --> 01:03:45,160
Speaker 1: and the profationalism, beauty of it all. And that's not

1128
01:03:45,320 --> 01:03:48,400
Speaker 1: everywhere in Europe. That's the thing about such a spectrum.

1129
01:03:49,080 --> 01:03:52,520
Speaker 1: There are places real Madrid, Barcelona, Chesco, there are places

1130
01:03:52,600 --> 01:03:54,600
Speaker 1: that do it at an incredibly high level. When I

1131
01:03:54,720 --> 01:03:58,360
Speaker 1: really I just was unfortunate. My few experiences were a

1132
01:03:58,440 --> 01:04:07,040
Speaker 1: bit quirky, like uh I, um, we were so and

1133
01:04:07,160 --> 01:04:10,160
Speaker 1: it's it's it's and it's in certain countries you have

1134
01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:13,080
Speaker 1: so much corruption, like so I had in my contract.

1135
01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:16,640
Speaker 1: If we won our first Italian league game, the Super Cuppa,

1136
01:04:17,640 --> 01:04:20,640
Speaker 1: we I got a five thousand euro bonus for winning

1137
01:04:20,640 --> 01:04:23,400
Speaker 1: the championship. The first game the Super Cup. So we

1138
01:04:23,480 --> 01:04:25,680
Speaker 1: win the game and it's like like a couple of

1139
01:04:25,680 --> 01:04:28,240
Speaker 1: months go by, I just told my agent, hey, hit up,

1140
01:04:28,440 --> 01:04:31,240
Speaker 1: let me just check on that five grand euros. See

1141
01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:35,840
Speaker 1: what they say. So he did, and the next practice.

1142
01:04:36,360 --> 01:04:39,880
Speaker 1: We're practicing and we're switching. We're switching ball screens, right,

1143
01:04:40,080 --> 01:04:44,120
Speaker 1: We're switching ball screen So, uh, my guy goes to

1144
01:04:44,200 --> 01:04:49,120
Speaker 1: set a screen and um no, no, no, no, no,

1145
01:04:49,320 --> 01:04:51,280
Speaker 1: someone's guarding me is coming to set the screen. But

1146
01:04:51,400 --> 01:04:53,840
Speaker 1: I know it's coming. I really blow up the screen

1147
01:04:53,920 --> 01:04:56,240
Speaker 1: and I just like ride the guy over it, right,

1148
01:04:57,040 --> 01:04:59,920
Speaker 1: and the guy guarding the screen like still comes almos.

1149
01:05:00,040 --> 01:05:03,160
Speaker 1: We're like two on the ball and I'm like so

1150
01:05:03,280 --> 01:05:05,600
Speaker 1: we're like talking after the I'm like, oh, it's no switch,

1151
01:05:05,760 --> 01:05:07,760
Speaker 1: like I got him no, no, no screen, no switch,

1152
01:05:08,280 --> 01:05:10,360
Speaker 1: and he's like, no switch. I'm like, there's no screen.

1153
01:05:10,440 --> 01:05:15,040
Speaker 1: We're gonna switch, and the coach said no him, get

1154
01:05:15,080 --> 01:05:20,400
Speaker 1: out of practice. I was like what he was like disrespectful?

1155
01:05:21,160 --> 01:05:26,600
Speaker 1: I was like what Like, I was like, all right,

1156
01:05:27,240 --> 01:05:31,000
Speaker 1: So we come. I'm on the bus going to play

1157
01:05:31,040 --> 01:05:38,000
Speaker 1: Passo no Italy and I get an email club. I

1158
01:05:38,080 --> 01:05:42,960
Speaker 1: got a five thousand year old five. I gotta I

1159
01:05:43,040 --> 01:05:45,240
Speaker 1: got a money back. I got a five thousand year

1160
01:05:45,280 --> 01:05:48,920
Speaker 1: old five for me and a teammate having a discussion

1161
01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:52,120
Speaker 1: about switch or no switch, which is like the thing

1162
01:05:52,240 --> 01:05:54,280
Speaker 1: in basketball when the switch went not to switch, isn't

1163
01:05:54,280 --> 01:05:57,840
Speaker 1: there isn't like a very normal current. So like just

1164
01:05:58,080 --> 01:06:02,840
Speaker 1: that level of like unprofessional, And Y asked quite frankly,

1165
01:06:04,360 --> 01:06:07,200
Speaker 1: your overseas basketball just wasn't for me. It just wasn't

1166
01:06:07,240 --> 01:06:09,280
Speaker 1: for me because I just I knew I had seen

1167
01:06:09,360 --> 01:06:11,840
Speaker 1: the light, like I know, like my time in the

1168
01:06:11,920 --> 01:06:15,040
Speaker 1: NBA was. I mean, I'm still like Charles class and

1169
01:06:15,120 --> 01:06:17,920
Speaker 1: with the Nuggets and Steve Hetzel with the magic like

1170
01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:20,640
Speaker 1: these guys Launch Frankie, these guys that I built these

1171
01:06:20,680 --> 01:06:26,480
Speaker 1: great relationships and bonds with, just it was just an

1172
01:06:26,560 --> 01:06:32,800
Speaker 1: incubator of such great knowledge and information in the game

1173
01:06:32,880 --> 01:06:36,640
Speaker 1: in the most purest form. And it was just that

1174
01:06:37,200 --> 01:06:41,280
Speaker 1: was a drug, you know for me. And so I

1175
01:06:41,360 --> 01:06:43,280
Speaker 1: gotta I need one minute. I gotta get my son

1176
01:06:43,480 --> 01:06:45,160
Speaker 1: up there because I gotta go. I gotta meet my

1177
01:06:45,200 --> 01:06:48,160
Speaker 1: a d here in a little bit. Um, Do you

1178
01:06:48,240 --> 01:06:50,760
Speaker 1: want to do a part two? We talked about coaching.

1179
01:06:51,520 --> 01:06:54,680
Speaker 1: Do you want to get that? Yes? What is this?

1180
01:06:54,840 --> 01:07:00,640
Speaker 1: Does this say? It gets it gets? No, it goes

1181
01:07:00,760 --> 01:07:03,360
Speaker 1: I mean it goes to it goes to I get

1182
01:07:04,160 --> 01:07:07,400
Speaker 1: two hundred fifty three h fifty thousand downloads for each

1183
01:07:07,440 --> 01:07:09,760
Speaker 1: one of these. It's really kind of taken out. It's nice.

1184
01:07:09,840 --> 01:07:13,320
Speaker 1: It's called all ball, and it's just people's stories about

1185
01:07:13,360 --> 01:07:16,480
Speaker 1: who and we got all and and we got all

1186
01:07:16,560 --> 01:07:19,160
Speaker 1: kinds of and this is you know, I want to

1187
01:07:19,200 --> 01:07:21,960
Speaker 1: do the coaching thing in a second. But but but

1188
01:07:22,120 --> 01:07:26,640
Speaker 1: let's let's wrap the playing thing with this. You what's

1189
01:07:26,680 --> 01:07:29,240
Speaker 1: the decision? Like you play in Venezuela. Everybody plays Venezuela.

1190
01:07:29,360 --> 01:07:31,400
Speaker 1: That's just to get some cash, right, you go down

1191
01:07:31,440 --> 01:07:35,960
Speaker 1: there spring League? What am I gonna make a week? Like?

1192
01:07:36,040 --> 01:07:38,880
Speaker 1: Whatever I can do to make some cash. But but

1193
01:07:39,200 --> 01:07:41,160
Speaker 1: I'm sure like at some point you're like, what am I?

1194
01:07:41,400 --> 01:07:44,280
Speaker 1: What am I doing here? Right? Because No, it was

1195
01:07:44,560 --> 01:07:46,760
Speaker 1: it was different for me. It was it was I

1196
01:07:46,960 --> 01:07:49,080
Speaker 1: was running it up. I knew I was when I

1197
01:07:49,120 --> 01:07:51,040
Speaker 1: got one of my first experience in Yerope. I knew

1198
01:07:51,080 --> 01:07:53,000
Speaker 1: I was gonna get the coach and I was trying

1199
01:07:53,000 --> 01:07:57,200
Speaker 1: to convince Frank Cave to hire me for two years.

1200
01:07:57,520 --> 01:08:00,160
Speaker 1: I just thought it was gonna be at Missouri. Um

1201
01:08:00,480 --> 01:08:03,800
Speaker 1: he told me no, keep he made. He just straight

1202
01:08:03,880 --> 01:08:07,280
Speaker 1: up denied me for two whole years. And no, you know,

1203
01:08:07,520 --> 01:08:09,120
Speaker 1: you're you need to play. You need to make because

1204
01:08:09,120 --> 01:08:11,360
Speaker 1: the money is great and you need to make as

1205
01:08:11,440 --> 01:08:14,720
Speaker 1: much money as you can such I don't care about

1206
01:08:14,760 --> 01:08:16,360
Speaker 1: the money, man, I want to do this like I

1207
01:08:16,400 --> 01:08:20,439
Speaker 1: want to coach. So for two seasons in France and Italy,

1208
01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:27,400
Speaker 1: I sent Frank Kate scouting reports of every opponent that

1209
01:08:27,479 --> 01:08:31,479
Speaker 1: they had had, Like I'd go to practice, I get home,

1210
01:08:31,600 --> 01:08:35,360
Speaker 1: I dive into their opponent on Synergy, I make video edits.

1211
01:08:35,640 --> 01:08:40,960
Speaker 1: I send him personnel, general thoughts, their offense, their defense,

1212
01:08:41,200 --> 01:08:43,840
Speaker 1: and a couple of keys to beat them for every

1213
01:08:43,960 --> 01:08:47,720
Speaker 1: single game that they played. And I sent it to

1214
01:08:47,840 --> 01:08:50,360
Speaker 1: him and their assistance, and I know they're assistants. I know,

1215
01:08:50,479 --> 01:08:52,679
Speaker 1: like looking back and I know the assistance like who's

1216
01:08:52,720 --> 01:08:55,120
Speaker 1: this dude? Like what's he? You know? And it was

1217
01:08:55,160 --> 01:08:57,280
Speaker 1: my alma mater at Missouri's was a little bit different.

1218
01:08:57,360 --> 01:09:00,840
Speaker 1: It was Dave Lado and you know, good veteran and staff. Um.

1219
01:09:02,439 --> 01:09:05,040
Speaker 1: And I also began to immerse myself in the high

1220
01:09:05,040 --> 01:09:07,639
Speaker 1: school classes the two thousand, sixteen and seventeen. I knew

1221
01:09:07,640 --> 01:09:11,000
Speaker 1: every kid in those classes and any relationship that I

1222
01:09:11,040 --> 01:09:13,240
Speaker 1: could possibly have. Are they from Baltimore or d C.

1223
01:09:13,800 --> 01:09:16,559
Speaker 1: Did they go to prep school? Um? Are they from Missouri?

1224
01:09:16,640 --> 01:09:19,920
Speaker 1: Are they from Michigan? Like? What relationships do I have

1225
01:09:20,080 --> 01:09:21,760
Speaker 1: with these kids? That I can tap into to kind

1226
01:09:21,760 --> 01:09:23,400
Speaker 1: of get to know these kids. So it was the

1227
01:09:25,560 --> 01:09:29,760
Speaker 1: I mean Duwayne Washington from Oaks, O s from a

1228
01:09:29,800 --> 01:09:33,559
Speaker 1: house state who we were recruiting at at Tulsa, Victor

1229
01:09:33,600 --> 01:09:36,479
Speaker 1: Bailey Jr. Who I just coached at Tennessee, who visit

1230
01:09:36,600 --> 01:09:42,719
Speaker 1: us officially at UH at Tulsa, Zaire Smith from Texas

1231
01:09:42,760 --> 01:09:45,519
Speaker 1: Tech who wanted to commit to US at Tulsa. Um

1232
01:09:46,520 --> 01:09:51,360
Speaker 1: Christian Bishop who was that like like these these players

1233
01:09:51,439 --> 01:09:55,000
Speaker 1: that their household names now. But I was kind of

1234
01:09:55,080 --> 01:09:58,400
Speaker 1: starting to track these guys as high school freshman and

1235
01:09:58,479 --> 01:10:01,680
Speaker 1: sophomores and bill relationships with them when I had no

1236
01:10:01,920 --> 01:10:05,840
Speaker 1: recruiting restrictions whatsoever. I was just a dude planned overseas

1237
01:10:06,960 --> 01:10:11,000
Speaker 1: and um, get these is incredibly close now to this day,

1238
01:10:11,040 --> 01:10:14,760
Speaker 1: all those guys have this name. Ridiculously close relationships with

1239
01:10:14,840 --> 01:10:18,280
Speaker 1: these guys now from a relationship that was started seven

1240
01:10:18,360 --> 01:10:21,960
Speaker 1: years ago. And that kind of let Frank Pay know

1241
01:10:22,360 --> 01:10:27,640
Speaker 1: how serious I was about this, Like I loathe the

1242
01:10:27,800 --> 01:10:32,439
Speaker 1: former player that's a coach who rests on his laurels

1243
01:10:32,479 --> 01:10:35,439
Speaker 1: as a player. Oh yeah, I did this so man,

1244
01:10:35,760 --> 01:10:38,240
Speaker 1: M yeah, I got it. Like just no, like I

1245
01:10:38,400 --> 01:10:41,879
Speaker 1: want to be good at every aspect of this profession.

1246
01:10:42,560 --> 01:10:45,559
Speaker 1: You know, it's pretty awesome. All right, we'll catch up

1247
01:10:45,640 --> 01:10:48,519
Speaker 1: in terms of the coaching thing. I appreciate your time,

1248
01:10:49,000 --> 01:10:55,400
Speaker 1: amazing story. Thank you. Let me know see your piece. Well, look,

1249
01:10:55,400 --> 01:10:57,679
Speaker 1: if you didn't enjoy that, you don't enjoy people, especially

1250
01:10:57,760 --> 01:11:01,120
Speaker 1: really interesting ones. And I didn't have I still don't

1251
01:11:01,280 --> 01:11:05,719
Speaker 1: totally understand people who have a stutter and the idea

1252
01:11:05,760 --> 01:11:08,160
Speaker 1: of a cadence. But a little bit more help me.

1253
01:11:08,400 --> 01:11:11,800
Speaker 1: And if you listen to that, I didn't think he's

1254
01:11:12,040 --> 01:11:19,320
Speaker 1: an incredibly intelligent man like his recalls fascinating, fascinating, So

1255
01:11:20,120 --> 01:11:22,200
Speaker 1: I could listen to a bunch more of him English.

1256
01:11:22,479 --> 01:11:24,400
Speaker 1: You will too, because that will be in our next

1257
01:11:24,800 --> 01:11:27,479
Speaker 1: All Ball reminder. Listening to Doug Gallup Show daily three

1258
01:11:27,520 --> 01:11:30,479
Speaker 1: to six Eastern twelve three Pacific on Fox Sport Trader,

1259
01:11:30,560 --> 01:11:33,000
Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app series Sex and to seventeen

1260
01:11:33,040 --> 01:11:35,400
Speaker 1: and two oh three in the meantime. Thank you so

1261
01:11:35,560 --> 01:11:37,720
Speaker 1: much to Kim English for all of that time, and

1262
01:11:37,840 --> 01:11:40,959
Speaker 1: thank you so much for downloading this podcast. I'm Doug Gottlieban.

1263
01:11:41,040 --> 01:11:41,960
Speaker 1: This is All Ball