WEBVTT - We Remember Ken Page 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:04.640 Hey, it's Alec. On September thirtieth, the Great White Way 0:00:04.760 --> 0:00:09.559 lost one of its brightest stars, the legendary Ken Page. 0:00:09.600 --> 0:00:13.080 The actor, singer and drama desk winner was known for 0:00:13.160 --> 0:00:17.959 his booming baritone and commanding presence in shows like Cats, 0:00:18.120 --> 0:00:21.760 the Whiz and Ain't Misbehavin And no one can forget 0:00:22.040 --> 0:00:26.880 his iconic portrayal of Oogie Boogie in the Nightmare Before Christmas. 0:00:27.200 --> 0:00:29.960 I wanted to take a moment to remember my dear 0:00:30.000 --> 0:00:33.120 friend Ken and the joy and charisma he brought to 0:00:33.240 --> 0:00:38.400 each and every performance. Ken, you are deeply missed. Here's 0:00:38.440 --> 0:00:42.159 my twenty twenty one conversation with two of my favorite 0:00:42.240 --> 0:00:46.199 musical theater performers, the late Ken Page and Betty Buckley. 0:00:49.120 --> 0:00:52.240 I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing 0:00:52.720 --> 0:00:57.840 from iHeart Radio. My guests today are two of my 0:00:57.960 --> 0:01:02.520 all time favorite musical theater actors, Ken Page and Betty Buckley, 0:01:03.240 --> 0:01:06.800 and there are parallels to their stories. Both grew up 0:01:06.920 --> 0:01:10.479 dreaming of performing on Broadway. Ken in Saint Louis, Betty 0:01:10.520 --> 0:01:13.880 and fort Worth both were cast in the original Broadway 0:01:13.880 --> 0:01:18.000 production of Cats, Ken as Old Deuteronomy and Betty as Guizabella, 0:01:18.080 --> 0:01:21.840 for which she wanted Tony. Both became key figures in 0:01:21.880 --> 0:01:26.360 the vibrant community that transformed musical theater over the past 0:01:26.440 --> 0:01:30.360 several decades. In addition to being the voice of Broadway, 0:01:30.880 --> 0:01:34.440 Betty Buckley's acting Chops earned her roles as the stepmom 0:01:34.840 --> 0:01:37.480 on the hit TV series Eight Is Enough and in 0:01:37.560 --> 0:01:43.320 films including Carrie, Tender Mercies, and Frantic. But first, I'm 0:01:43.360 --> 0:01:46.280 talking with Ken Page. You may know him as the 0:01:46.360 --> 0:01:49.960 voice of Oogie Boogie in The Nightmare Before Christmas. In 0:01:50.000 --> 0:01:53.600 his breakout role on Broadway, he played Nicely Nicely Johnson 0:01:53.920 --> 0:01:56.240 in an all black revival of Guys and Dolls in 0:01:56.320 --> 0:01:59.640 nineteen seventy six. He went on to perform as the 0:01:59.720 --> 0:02:02.600 Lion in The Whiz and in the original cast of 0:02:02.600 --> 0:02:06.960 Ain't Misbehavior. Ken Page was drawn to musical theater early. 0:02:07.920 --> 0:02:10.720 Yeah. It was my lifeblood. It was the thing that 0:02:10.800 --> 0:02:12.960 got me out of where I was to where I went. 0:02:13.200 --> 0:02:16.040 It was the thing that kept me going through years 0:02:16.080 --> 0:02:19.120 of up and down childhood things. But it was always 0:02:19.240 --> 0:02:24.040 musical theater and all of that related world that got 0:02:24.080 --> 0:02:27.560 me through. I mean, I remember being ten and eleven, 0:02:27.600 --> 0:02:31.360 of course, watching Barbara Streisen's TV specials going. I am 0:02:31.760 --> 0:02:34.640 Barbara Streisen, and I would go to the library in 0:02:34.680 --> 0:02:37.399 Saint Louis, the big public Library, and in the basement 0:02:37.840 --> 0:02:41.840 they had a section of LPs and I would thumb 0:02:41.880 --> 0:02:44.720 through all of these Broadway cast albums. I would read 0:02:44.760 --> 0:02:47.160 the liner notes. And this one lady when I first 0:02:47.360 --> 0:02:49.239 couple of times that came, she was a little trevitas, like, 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:51.400 what are you doing in here? And she saw, you know, 0:02:51.440 --> 0:02:54.760 I'd be sitting on the floor reading Broadway cast album 0:02:55.040 --> 0:02:58.400 liner notes, and I'm sure she thought, is this child 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:02.520 from Mars the deal? Right? But I started to educate 0:03:02.560 --> 0:03:05.800 myself that early about musical theater because it just fascinated me. 0:03:06.000 --> 0:03:08.240 And of course the own two only things that I 0:03:08.320 --> 0:03:11.560 really saw was the Tony Awards once a year, and 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:13.960 I would see all the shows and I was fascinated 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:17.320 by it. And we had this grand outdoor theater still 0:03:17.360 --> 0:03:19.639 have in Saint Louis call At that time it was 0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:23.040 the Municipal Opera and now it's called the Muni, so 0:03:23.080 --> 0:03:25.000 a lot of people in the business know the Muni. 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:27.560 And that was the first time I saw a live 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:32.280 production on stage. It was Oklahoma with Robert Horton as curly, 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:34.200 and he came out on a real horse, and all. 0:03:34.160 --> 0:03:37.240 Those people in Missouri demand know less, they must have 0:03:37.280 --> 0:03:37.880 a real horse. 0:03:37.960 --> 0:03:41.160 That's right, show me, show me state. So he came 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:43.040 out on a horse, and of course, when you see 0:03:43.040 --> 0:03:44.960 something like that, you fall in love with it. And 0:03:45.280 --> 0:03:47.920 subsequently I saw a lot of shows. And it was 0:03:48.040 --> 0:03:51.560 the theater that made me really fall in love with 0:03:51.640 --> 0:03:54.080 musical theater because I could see it. And then it 0:03:54.160 --> 0:03:57.040 was the theater that inspired me to move to New York. 0:03:57.280 --> 0:03:58.720 And what did you study voice acting? 0:03:58.920 --> 0:04:02.160 I did? I did. I went to two years at 0:04:02.240 --> 0:04:05.160 Fontvon University in Saint Louis in a scholarship. I like 0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:07.440 to say this because now I'm over fifty, I can brag, right. 0:04:07.680 --> 0:04:11.840 I received a scholarship in art music for vocal performance 0:04:11.880 --> 0:04:15.280 and theater, and I chose theater subsequently. At the same 0:04:15.360 --> 0:04:18.960 time those two summers, I did seasons at the Muni 0:04:19.360 --> 0:04:21.599 in the ensemble I start when I was eighteen. 0:04:21.880 --> 0:04:24.359 Those two shows at the Muni were those your first 0:04:24.920 --> 0:04:27.159 two shows you did? Had you been doing shows when 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:29.839 you were younger? When did you start performing in front 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:30.200 of people? 0:04:30.839 --> 0:04:33.520 In front of people? Really? Sixth grade, I was part 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:35.159 of a thing here in Saint It was called the 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:39.479 Bellerman Speech League, which my cousin had been in, but 0:04:39.560 --> 0:04:43.240 it was one of those competitive citywide things. So that 0:04:43.360 --> 0:04:45.680 was really the first time I stepped in front of 0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:48.479 people performing. And then of course in high school I 0:04:48.520 --> 0:04:52.640 did your usual high school musical's Funny Girl, Oliver, Hello Dolly, 0:04:52.720 --> 0:04:55.200 Fiddler on the Root. And it was that that led 0:04:55.240 --> 0:04:58.720 me to audition for scholarship or college, which I got. 0:04:58.920 --> 0:05:01.600 I wish at the time, I'd own about Juilliard and 0:05:02.040 --> 0:05:04.360 Goodman and schools like that, but they really didn't promote 0:05:04.360 --> 0:05:07.240 it because the idea was stay here and go to school, 0:05:07.360 --> 0:05:11.839 and Saint Louis has a very home grown mentality that way, 0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:14.760 and it really wasn't promoted to me to audition for 0:05:14.800 --> 0:05:18.400 the Goodman, which was only in Chicago, and certainly not Juilliard, 0:05:18.440 --> 0:05:21.480 which was New York. And I think, not to be egotistical, 0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:23.240 but I think I might have really been able to 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:25.240 get into those schools. 0:05:25.279 --> 0:05:27.960 And so for you, I wonder it's like, and again 0:05:28.160 --> 0:05:30.479 I'm going to say this eleven times during the course 0:05:30.520 --> 0:05:33.599 of this interview, but you're so talented. I mean, you 0:05:33.640 --> 0:05:39.080 are so talented. You're like the male musical theater Annie 0:05:39.080 --> 0:05:41.240 Oakley like boom boom boom. 0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:44.320 Anything you can do, you can do better than him. 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:47.359 But if you'd gone to those fancy schools, Yeah, what 0:05:47.400 --> 0:05:49.560 would have changed everything? You think? 0:05:49.600 --> 0:05:52.440 So everything? Oh sure, Because first of all, to go 0:05:52.480 --> 0:05:54.760 to any of those schools, you're living away from home. 0:05:55.440 --> 0:05:57.960 So that's the first big change, which means you explore 0:05:58.000 --> 0:06:00.680 your life, never mind the education, and you explore your 0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:03.680 life differently. For me, I think being away from Saint 0:06:03.720 --> 0:06:06.000 Louis would have made a big difference in how I 0:06:06.080 --> 0:06:09.880 explored what I was doing. My mentor, God bless and 0:06:09.920 --> 0:06:14.159 rest him, Don Garner, when I realized that I wanted 0:06:14.160 --> 0:06:15.719 to go to New York, I went to him and 0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:17.400 I said, look, I think I want to go to 0:06:17.440 --> 0:06:19.640 New York. If you shut the door to his office, 0:06:19.640 --> 0:06:21.960 he says, all right. I didn't say this, but I 0:06:22.040 --> 0:06:24.800 think you will learn in the next two years in 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:26.960 New York what you would It would take you six 0:06:27.040 --> 0:06:29.600 years here to learn if you go and apply yourself 0:06:29.600 --> 0:06:31.680 and really do what I think you would do or 0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:34.159 will do. And indeed, by the two years when my 0:06:34.200 --> 0:06:37.840 class graduated, I was in my first Broadway show, which 0:06:37.880 --> 0:06:41.880 is an all black revival of Guys and Dolls. Ah 0:06:42.200 --> 0:06:42.880 ta da ta da. 0:06:43.240 --> 0:06:46.000 Yeah? And how long did that run? Not long? 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:47.720 Now? 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:48.880 What do you attribute that to? 0:06:49.160 --> 0:06:51.920 Well, it was very controversial because one it was an 0:06:51.920 --> 0:06:54.719 all black version of something, and then this is mine 0:06:54.760 --> 0:06:58.799 you'se nineteen seventy six, so things hadn't moved quite nearly 0:06:58.839 --> 0:07:01.200 as far as they have come thus. And also it 0:07:01.240 --> 0:07:05.120 was Guys and Dolls, which is a sacred musical theater piece. 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:08.080 And there were people who were pro because you know, 0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:10.720 pro Bailey's version of Hello Dolly had already happened, and 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:13.720 people thought, oh my god, that was wonderful, So dus 0:07:13.840 --> 0:07:16.680 Guys and Dolls. But I think because Hello Dolly is 0:07:16.680 --> 0:07:20.320 such the whole from Thornton Wilder on, it's such an 0:07:20.440 --> 0:07:23.920 open book of who these people are. Guys and Dolls 0:07:24.040 --> 0:07:26.800 was a very specific New York Jewish idiom. So there 0:07:26.800 --> 0:07:30.400 were people who thought we had no business tampering, tinkering, 0:07:31.040 --> 0:07:34.200 toeling with Guys and Dolls. And then there were other 0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:36.880 people who thought, thank god, there's some different energy on 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:40.880 it and our production, the arrangements, and we couldn't change 0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:43.040 a note of the music. But that's all another story. 0:07:43.240 --> 0:07:46.480 The arrangements had a sort of a a disco kind 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:48.200 of thing running under it, and when you hear the 0:07:48.480 --> 0:07:51.600 Broadway cast album Night, it's really very electric and alive. 0:07:52.000 --> 0:07:55.360 People loved it. Those who loved I remember may I 0:07:55.440 --> 0:07:58.640 say rex Read said something about saying that thongs stood down, 0:07:58.720 --> 0:08:01.080 you're rocking the boat, and he said, I turned it 0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:04.680 into a gospel stomp, and it was just terrible. Oh 0:08:04.760 --> 0:08:08.840 Rix was unkind to here, I'd say, yeah, oh God, 0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:11.240 but he was unkind to everybody, but he was specifically. 0:08:11.800 --> 0:08:14.160 But it was interesting because I always remember thinking, even 0:08:14.240 --> 0:08:16.960 then at twenty one, I thought, we didn't Frank Lesser 0:08:17.000 --> 0:08:19.640 write a gospel number. Isn't that what this is supposed 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:22.440 to be, these people in the Saber Soul Mission and 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:25.680 its gospel tings. And so for all we really did 0:08:25.800 --> 0:08:27.960 was took it the next step towards what he was 0:08:28.000 --> 0:08:30.560 writing to begin with, which I think the last eight 0:08:30.680 --> 0:08:32.679 measures of the song go sit down, you're rock and 0:08:32.720 --> 0:08:34.160 sit down, sit down, sit down, you're rocking the boat, 0:08:34.160 --> 0:08:36.480 blah blah blah blah. Well they allowed us to change 0:08:36.480 --> 0:08:39.320 that to the Devil drag you under socie you never 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:43.280 blow sit down, sit down, sit down, sit down, which 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:47.040 took it in another direction. Well, that was successful enough 0:08:47.080 --> 0:08:49.080 that the audience would scream and carry on and they 0:08:49.080 --> 0:08:51.319 loved it. So then they wrote an encore, which is 0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:54.320 completely new, and sometimes the encore would get two and 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:57.480 three renditions a night. Thank god I was twenty one, 0:08:57.600 --> 0:08:59.840 you know, because the people would stream and they'd applaud, 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:03.400 they go on and Joe Marshall, god Resten was our drummer. 0:09:03.440 --> 0:09:06.120 It was really he who decided. He'd listened to the 0:09:06.160 --> 0:09:08.120 crowd and he'd look at me and he'd listened to 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:10.360 the crowd, and then he'd hit the drum bill. But 0:09:10.520 --> 0:09:15.079 DA had a dream, and the more the people screamed, 0:09:15.160 --> 0:09:17.240 of course we'd do it again and again again. So 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:19.600 I'm saying that to say that was one of the 0:09:19.640 --> 0:09:23.640 things out of that show that kept it going, frankly, 0:09:23.760 --> 0:09:26.720 because people came to see what was new in Guys 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:27.280 and Dolls. 0:09:27.600 --> 0:09:30.840 You weren't in the Wiz prior to Guys and Does No. 0:09:31.000 --> 0:09:33.320 I've seen that written a few places, and I always 0:09:33.400 --> 0:09:35.960 try to correct it because Guys and Dolls was nineteen 0:09:36.040 --> 0:09:38.680 seventy six, and I didn't go into the Whiz until 0:09:39.080 --> 0:09:41.160 late seventy six, almost seventy seven. 0:09:41.400 --> 0:09:45.400 So you go from one adaptation of a sacred musical 0:09:45.960 --> 0:09:49.839 to another adaptation of someone. I'm sure you also were 0:09:49.840 --> 0:09:51.959 impersonating in the bathroom with a brush in your hand, 0:09:52.000 --> 0:09:54.880 Judy Garland, when you go do the Wiz, was it 0:09:54.920 --> 0:09:56.520 a different ball of wax there? And the way you 0:09:56.520 --> 0:09:58.199 were treated with adapting Wizard. 0:09:57.880 --> 0:10:01.040 Of Oz with a plodcast, Oh god ya Goodias because 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:05.240 the Wiz was unapologetically black, even though based on L. 0:10:05.280 --> 0:10:07.920 Frank Baums and the music and so forth. But the 0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:12.240 Wiz open and that was a blockbuster. It wasn't at 0:10:12.320 --> 0:10:16.120 first they actually had their closing notice up and then 0:10:16.240 --> 0:10:20.200 Ken Harper went to twentieth Century Fox. They invested in 0:10:20.240 --> 0:10:23.920 a TV commercial and it was so great. And then 0:10:23.960 --> 0:10:26.800 they went to the churches in Brooklyn. Stephanie Mills belonged 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:30.079 to the biggest church, African American church in Brooklyn. They 0:10:30.120 --> 0:10:32.959 went to them. They then went to Sister brother churches. 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:36.720 All of these people started buying tickets and came in bustlows. 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:38.920 And we know the dollar rules. So as long as 0:10:38.920 --> 0:10:41.400 there were people there, the show was going to keep running. 0:10:42.000 --> 0:10:44.880 By virtue of it staying where it was. The word 0:10:44.880 --> 0:10:47.199 of mouth picked up and then other people started coming. 0:10:47.559 --> 0:10:49.680 It finished that story to say that by the time 0:10:49.720 --> 0:10:51.920 it got around to the Tony Awards, they were nominated 0:10:51.960 --> 0:10:54.400 for eleven Tony Awards. I think they won six. 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:59.200 So guysendals nicely, nicely, the Lion and the Wiz, and 0:10:59.480 --> 0:11:02.800 these are not lead roles. You're playing more supporting roles. 0:11:03.040 --> 0:11:05.240 And the next thing is Ain't Misbehaved in seventy eight? 0:11:05.320 --> 0:11:06.400 Correct? Right? 0:11:06.440 --> 0:11:08.080 And when you do that, you get a lead role 0:11:08.080 --> 0:11:09.040 in Ain't Misbehaving? 0:11:09.360 --> 0:11:11.440 Yeah? Well, you know, I mean it's interesting because the 0:11:11.520 --> 0:11:15.040 five characters, if you will and am misbehavin were all 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:20.480 supporting people. So the five of us really were the leads, 0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:23.240 but we were used to being supporting people, so we 0:11:23.280 --> 0:11:26.319 supported each other in the way that we had supported 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:31.680 other people in productions, which made it a very powerful ensemble. 0:11:31.840 --> 0:11:33.400 When did you notice that you walked in the room 0:11:33.440 --> 0:11:35.120 and everybody sat up and they were like, it's ken, 0:11:35.240 --> 0:11:37.600 you know what I mean, Like you really the town 0:11:37.880 --> 0:11:39.840 started to adopt you, that you were part of a 0:11:39.880 --> 0:11:41.600 business in an industry in New York. 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:44.160 That was the blessing of Guys and Dalls is that 0:11:44.200 --> 0:11:48.400 I did a beloved role and by me having some 0:11:48.440 --> 0:11:50.960 sort of a personal signature on it. It separated me 0:11:51.000 --> 0:11:55.360 from the great WK. So Broadways sort of said, who 0:11:55.400 --> 0:11:57.480 is this I remember Clive Barnes. I didn't know who 0:11:57.520 --> 0:11:59.800 he was at the time, but he wrote a sort 0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:02.360 of love letter in The Times and saying who is 0:12:02.400 --> 0:12:04.880 this guy? Where did he come from? People called me 0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:06.959 up saying, did you read that thing at the Times 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:09.720 this morning? Clive Barnes wrote you a love letter? And 0:12:09.760 --> 0:12:11.640 I'm like, well, who is Clive Barnes? First of all, 0:12:11.679 --> 0:12:14.400 They're like, okay, why is he writing me love letters? Why? 0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:16.960 Why is he writing me love letters? But what it 0:12:17.040 --> 0:12:19.520 did was it opened the door to Broadway and it 0:12:19.600 --> 0:12:23.319 said this guy is Broadway caliber. Wherever he came from, 0:12:23.400 --> 0:12:26.000 welcome dot dot dot. So it sort of sucked me 0:12:26.080 --> 0:12:30.320 right into the center of the Broadway community immediately, and 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:32.920 then to get to do the Whiz behind it, which 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:35.280 was a huge, huge, huge hit and still very much 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:38.319 at the top of the list of appreciated shows. I'll 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:40.079 tell this story and I think you'll know what I mean. 0:12:40.480 --> 0:12:42.880 I had done a club act at Le Mouge. You know, 0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:44.760 it was a big disco, but it was also a 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:47.439 big club there too. I did a tribute to all 0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:49.560 of the black shows that were running on Broadway at 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:52.200 the time, and there were many at the time, and 0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:54.240 I sort of linked them. I did a number songs 0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:56.760 from Raisin and The Wiz and of course Guys and 0:12:56.880 --> 0:12:59.160 Dolls and a couple of and I would link them 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:01.320 together with He's on on the road, Okay, let's go on, 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:03.880 we go, He's on down, He's on down, rude to 0:13:04.200 --> 0:13:07.240 raise it and blow it. And some of the people 0:13:07.400 --> 0:13:10.960 from The Wiz came to see my show because I 0:13:11.080 --> 0:13:13.960 was in Guys and Dollars and they'd heard, so they 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:16.920 called me in shortly after Guys and Dolls closed, And 0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:19.800 I had auditioned for The Wiz before, and I just 0:13:19.880 --> 0:13:21.640 knew I was perfect for it because I'd seen the 0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:23.839 out of town try out in Detroit, and I went 0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:26.000 in and I sang men O line and they said, 0:13:26.040 --> 0:13:31.360 thank you, that's it. I know I'm right for this. 0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:33.960 Put How dam you say that like that? So when 0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:35.960 it came back around, my agent said, well, you know, 0:13:36.040 --> 0:13:39.400 they want to see you at the Majestic Theater and 0:13:39.440 --> 0:13:41.320 I said, I auditioned for The Whiz. They didn't like me. 0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:43.400 He said, no, no, I don't think you understand they saw 0:13:43.400 --> 0:13:46.240 your club act. They want to see you at the 0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:51.400 Majestic Theater. They're not having auditions, they're auditioning you. So 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:54.080 I said, oh shit. So I went in and Ken 0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:57.000 Harper indeed was there, and I sang the songs and 0:13:57.040 --> 0:13:58.760 he walked down to the edge of the stage and 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:01.120 he shook my hand and he says, are you busy 0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:03.040 for the rest of the afternoon? And I said no. 0:14:03.480 --> 0:14:05.920 He said, good, then go down and get your costume measurement. 0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:08.040 And it took me a minute to understand that. Men 0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:11.120 I got the part. I was like, why, what do 0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:14.080 you want? How wonderful? Yeah, he said, So in answer 0:14:14.120 --> 0:14:16.600 to your question, I would say, that's the first time 0:14:16.720 --> 0:14:18.800 people sat up when I walked in the room. But 0:14:18.880 --> 0:14:24.840 it was still different because they invited me into the room. 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:30.360 Broadway star Ken Page. If you enjoy listening to conversations 0:14:30.680 --> 0:14:33.120 with the greats of musical theater, be sure to check 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:37.160 out my conversation with another Broadway star, Kelly O'Hara. 0:14:38.080 --> 0:14:40.400 Even after eight shows a week, I find myself kind 0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:43.800 of dealing with all of this, all of my innards 0:14:44.360 --> 0:14:47.920 out there. It's how I filter, it's how I process, 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:51.080 I think and It's why I'm not quite tired of it. 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:55.960 For the most part, I find that I go inside 0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:59.440 it as opposed to just dealing with it all out. 0:14:59.440 --> 0:15:04.480 Here hear more of my conversation with Kelly O'Hara that 0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:08.360 Here's the Thing dot org. After the break, ken Page 0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:11.800 talks about learning comedic timing from some of the best 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:26.640 in the business. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to 0:15:26.760 --> 0:15:27.560 Here's the Thing. 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:35.000 I dream last night. I got on the boat to Heaven, 0:15:35.760 --> 0:15:43.520 and by some chance I had brought my dicilong and 0:15:43.920 --> 0:15:50.400 there I stood, and I hollowed. Someone faid me, bought 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:58.680 the passage. Stay to right from raw for all the 0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:02.800 people all sense it. Sit Down, you're rocking the boat, Yes, 0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:07.160 rocking the boat. 0:16:07.440 --> 0:16:10.680 That's Ken Page performing sit Down, You're rocking the Boat 0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:14.960 from the nineteen seventy six Broadway revival of Guys and Dolls. 0:16:15.720 --> 0:16:19.680 During his tenure on Broadway, Ken Page would often perform 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:25.080 solo in smaller clubs. Oftentimes, his castmates and other performers 0:16:25.120 --> 0:16:26.880 were his best audience. 0:16:27.120 --> 0:16:30.200 With the Broadway community, especially back then. You were in 0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:33.680 that show at that time, but you were still part 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:37.760 of a larger community. At large. However long you'd been around, 0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:41.479 chances are you'd worked with just about anybody or everybody 0:16:41.560 --> 0:16:44.960 at some point. So there was this serious sense of 0:16:45.040 --> 0:16:49.080 community that supported people new people. I can't even tell you. 0:16:49.600 --> 0:16:52.640 I remember doing again Guys and Dolls eight Burrows, who 0:16:52.640 --> 0:16:55.560 of course was a towering figure in the musical theater. 0:16:55.920 --> 0:16:59.240 Him teaching me about comedy timing. He said, look, these 0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:01.280 jokes are fun you know what I'm saying. I said, well, 0:17:01.280 --> 0:17:03.440 I assume here, but you got to do a three 0:17:03.560 --> 0:17:06.960 rhythm thing for him to work. If you break the rhythm, 0:17:07.040 --> 0:17:09.640 they're not funny. And my example was I came out 0:17:09.640 --> 0:17:13.480 with a sandwich and Nathan says, hey, nicely, where you been, 0:17:14.160 --> 0:17:16.400 And I'd say I had to get something to eat. 0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:18.920 I felt a little faint, and I would just say 0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:21.560 the line crickets. You could hear NAT's fart. It was 0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:24.520 that quiet, you know. And he said to me, no, no, a, 0:17:24.920 --> 0:17:28.320 you got to take two beats before you speak, take 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:31.159 a bite of the sandwich, and then you say the 0:17:31.160 --> 0:17:34.400 line with your mouth full, and it's funny. And I thought, well, 0:17:34.440 --> 0:17:36.680 that's very specific. I don't know, you know, maybe I 0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:38.480 don't want to do that. Hey, he wrote it. He 0:17:38.520 --> 0:17:42.359 ought to know, right, So I did it. He says, hey, nicely, 0:17:42.560 --> 0:17:45.000 where are you been? And I stopped and I took 0:17:45.000 --> 0:17:47.159 a bite of the sandwich. I would I heard a 0:17:47.200 --> 0:17:52.040 good trummery eat. I felt the little faint roaring laughter, 0:17:52.560 --> 0:17:53.560 So you know what I mean? 0:17:53.800 --> 0:17:53.960 Right? 0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:56.040 And I thought to myself. 0:17:55.840 --> 0:17:58.240 Learn, learn, learn, Isn't it true? 0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:01.719 People were general, not only in the production, but they 0:18:01.760 --> 0:18:04.000 were generous to tell you things. 0:18:04.359 --> 0:18:07.040 So getting into that whole thing of like, you start 0:18:07.080 --> 0:18:10.000 to feel more emboldened. 0:18:10.359 --> 0:18:13.440 Sure, I think with each show successively you become more 0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:17.800 and more aware of what you have that's yours, that 0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:22.359 is applicable to whatever situation you're in. But it takes. 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:25.320 It's a process to you get that sort of confidence 0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:30.720 that while I'm going to sing this song, there's something 0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:33.679 I do with my boys, with my intention with this 0:18:33.800 --> 0:18:37.679 that that is particular to me, that's going to make 0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:39.959 this sing, you know what I mean? And with amous 0:18:39.960 --> 0:18:45.000 behavin of course, the opportunity was golden because there was nothing. Hello, 0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:48.120 there was a stack of Xerox music that Fats Rolla 0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:50.200 and other people wrote, and then that was it. 0:18:50.480 --> 0:18:52.919 Who shaped that? Who was responsible for shaping that? 0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:55.840 Well, we all were. I'm going to say that now 0:18:55.880 --> 0:18:58.879 on record, because Richard Maltby was a wonderful director in 0:18:58.960 --> 0:19:03.280 many ways, and he certainly put us together. Murray Horowitz, 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:06.480 who was the jazz afficionado, and Arthur Fario, who was 0:19:06.520 --> 0:19:10.760 our choreographer. It was really this combined effort of everybody. 0:19:10.920 --> 0:19:15.080 Needless to say, five African American performers brought much of 0:19:15.160 --> 0:19:18.480 what you saw from our own selves. There was no 0:19:18.560 --> 0:19:22.720 written characters. There was no scenario that we were following. 0:19:22.800 --> 0:19:24.840 It was just a matter of you walk in the 0:19:24.880 --> 0:19:29.480 door and she walks over to you and she sayings, baby, baby, 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:33.879 what is the matter with you? Well, you got to 0:19:34.000 --> 0:19:36.360 know who you are, what your intention is, what you're 0:19:36.359 --> 0:19:39.080 trying to do. All that had to be provided by 0:19:39.160 --> 0:19:43.639 the actor who was us right, And that was the 0:19:43.680 --> 0:19:45.800 way the show really was created. I mean, you know, 0:19:45.800 --> 0:19:46.720 it was set up. 0:19:47.040 --> 0:19:52.320 So A'm misbehavin and then you go into Cats. Now, 0:19:52.560 --> 0:19:54.720 you were in the original company of Cats, an original 0:19:54.760 --> 0:20:00.360 Broadway cast. Yes, you were in the original You were 0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:03.520 in the original Broadway company of Cas. 0:20:03.640 --> 0:20:07.080 I was and our American Daughters in nineteen twenty six. Yes, 0:20:07.440 --> 0:20:10.480 betdy Lynn Buckley and Harry Groener. 0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:17.480 Oh amazing, Eddie Buckley, Oh my god. So how did 0:20:17.520 --> 0:20:18.400 that come together? 0:20:18.920 --> 0:20:21.480 Well, we want to say first, it was a huge 0:20:21.600 --> 0:20:25.199 hid in London, so it had already sailed the seas. 0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:27.800 It was just coming in our direction. But that was 0:20:27.840 --> 0:20:29.960 part of what made it such a big deal for Broadways, 0:20:29.960 --> 0:20:31.960 because it was such a huge hit in London and 0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:34.680 they were going to do the American production. 0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:36.000 And how do you get summoned to that? 0:20:36.640 --> 0:20:40.160 Well, weirdly, because they were seeing people for six months 0:20:40.160 --> 0:20:43.439 for the show. Everybody who could crawl on fore legs 0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:48.639 was there auditioning. And I didn't think there was anything 0:20:48.720 --> 0:20:50.080 in the show for me. I just thought it was 0:20:50.080 --> 0:20:52.520 a dance show and it was about people and leotards, 0:20:52.600 --> 0:20:55.320 not me. And I went out and paid any attention 0:20:55.760 --> 0:20:58.440 and I went to the closing performance of Ain't Misbehaving 0:20:58.480 --> 0:21:00.359 on Broadway. I wasn't in the show by that point, 0:21:00.400 --> 0:21:03.480 but I went to the closing performance and Bernard Jacobs, 0:21:03.640 --> 0:21:07.200