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Speaker 1: Hey, it's Alec. On September thirtieth, the Great White Way

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Speaker 1: lost one of its brightest stars, the legendary Ken Page.

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Speaker 1: The actor, singer and drama desk winner was known for

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Speaker 1: his booming baritone and commanding presence in shows like Cats,

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Speaker 1: the Whiz and Ain't Misbehavin And no one can forget

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Speaker 1: his iconic portrayal of Oogie Boogie in the Nightmare Before Christmas.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to take a moment to remember my dear

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Speaker 1: friend Ken and the joy and charisma he brought to

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Speaker 1: each and every performance. Ken, you are deeply missed. Here's

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Speaker 1: my twenty twenty one conversation with two of my favorite

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Speaker 1: musical theater performers, the late Ken Page and Betty Buckley.

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Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing

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Speaker 1: from iHeart Radio. My guests today are two of my

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Speaker 1: all time favorite musical theater actors, Ken Page and Betty Buckley,

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Speaker 1: and there are parallels to their stories. Both grew up

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Speaker 1: dreaming of performing on Broadway. Ken in Saint Louis, Betty

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Speaker 1: and fort Worth both were cast in the original Broadway

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Speaker 1: production of Cats, Ken as Old Deuteronomy and Betty as Guizabella,

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Speaker 1: for which she wanted Tony. Both became key figures in

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Speaker 1: the vibrant community that transformed musical theater over the past

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Speaker 1: several decades. In addition to being the voice of Broadway,

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Speaker 1: Betty Buckley's acting Chops earned her roles as the stepmom

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Speaker 1: on the hit TV series Eight Is Enough and in

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Speaker 1: films including Carrie, Tender Mercies, and Frantic. But first, I'm

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Speaker 1: talking with Ken Page. You may know him as the

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Speaker 1: voice of Oogie Boogie in The Nightmare Before Christmas. In

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Speaker 1: his breakout role on Broadway, he played Nicely Nicely Johnson

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Speaker 1: in an all black revival of Guys and Dolls in

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy six. He went on to perform as the

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Speaker 1: Lion in The Whiz and in the original cast of

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Speaker 1: Ain't Misbehavior. Ken Page was drawn to musical theater early.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. It was my lifeblood. It was the thing that

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Speaker 2: got me out of where I was to where I went.

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Speaker 2: It was the thing that kept me going through years

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Speaker 2: of up and down childhood things. But it was always

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Speaker 2: musical theater and all of that related world that got

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Speaker 2: me through. I mean, I remember being ten and eleven,

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Speaker 2: of course, watching Barbara Streisen's TV specials going. I am

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Speaker 2: Barbara Streisen, and I would go to the library in

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Speaker 2: Saint Louis, the big public Library, and in the basement

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Speaker 2: they had a section of LPs and I would thumb

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Speaker 2: through all of these Broadway cast albums. I would read

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Speaker 2: the liner notes. And this one lady when I first

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Speaker 2: couple of times that came, she was a little trevitas, like,

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Speaker 2: what are you doing in here? And she saw, you know,

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Speaker 2: I'd be sitting on the floor reading Broadway cast album

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Speaker 2: liner notes, and I'm sure she thought, is this child

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Speaker 2: from Mars the deal? Right? But I started to educate

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Speaker 2: myself that early about musical theater because it just fascinated me.

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Speaker 2: And of course the own two only things that I

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Speaker 2: really saw was the Tony Awards once a year, and

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Speaker 2: I would see all the shows and I was fascinated

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Speaker 2: by it. And we had this grand outdoor theater still

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Speaker 2: have in Saint Louis call At that time it was

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Speaker 2: the Municipal Opera and now it's called the Muni, so

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Speaker 2: a lot of people in the business know the Muni.

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Speaker 2: And that was the first time I saw a live

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Speaker 2: production on stage. It was Oklahoma with Robert Horton as curly,

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Speaker 2: and he came out on a real horse, and all.

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Speaker 1: Those people in Missouri demand know less, they must have

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Speaker 1: a real horse.

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Speaker 2: That's right, show me, show me state. So he came

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Speaker 2: out on a horse, and of course, when you see

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Speaker 2: something like that, you fall in love with it. And

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Speaker 2: subsequently I saw a lot of shows. And it was

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Speaker 2: the theater that made me really fall in love with

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Speaker 2: musical theater because I could see it. And then it

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Speaker 2: was the theater that inspired me to move to New York.

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Speaker 1: And what did you study voice acting?

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Speaker 2: I did? I did. I went to two years at

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Speaker 2: Fontvon University in Saint Louis in a scholarship. I like

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Speaker 2: to say this because now I'm over fifty, I can brag, right.

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Speaker 2: I received a scholarship in art music for vocal performance

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Speaker 2: and theater, and I chose theater subsequently. At the same

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Speaker 2: time those two summers, I did seasons at the Muni

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Speaker 2: in the ensemble I start when I was eighteen.

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Speaker 1: Those two shows at the Muni were those your first

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Speaker 1: two shows you did? Had you been doing shows when

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Speaker 1: you were younger? When did you start performing in front

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Speaker 1: of people?

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Speaker 2: In front of people? Really? Sixth grade, I was part

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Speaker 2: of a thing here in Saint It was called the

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Speaker 2: Bellerman Speech League, which my cousin had been in, but

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Speaker 2: it was one of those competitive citywide things. So that

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Speaker 2: was really the first time I stepped in front of

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Speaker 2: people performing. And then of course in high school I

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Speaker 2: did your usual high school musical's Funny Girl, Oliver, Hello Dolly,

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Speaker 2: Fiddler on the Root. And it was that that led

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Speaker 2: me to audition for scholarship or college, which I got.

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Speaker 2: I wish at the time, I'd own about Juilliard and

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Speaker 2: Goodman and schools like that, but they really didn't promote

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Speaker 2: it because the idea was stay here and go to school,

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Speaker 2: and Saint Louis has a very home grown mentality that way,

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Speaker 2: and it really wasn't promoted to me to audition for

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Speaker 2: the Goodman, which was only in Chicago, and certainly not Juilliard,

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Speaker 2: which was New York. And I think, not to be egotistical,

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Speaker 2: but I think I might have really been able to

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Speaker 2: get into those schools.

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Speaker 1: And so for you, I wonder it's like, and again

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Speaker 1: I'm going to say this eleven times during the course

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Speaker 1: of this interview, but you're so talented. I mean, you

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Speaker 1: are so talented. You're like the male musical theater Annie

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Speaker 1: Oakley like boom boom boom.

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Speaker 2: Anything you can do, you can do better than him.

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Speaker 1: But if you'd gone to those fancy schools, Yeah, what

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Speaker 1: would have changed everything? You think?

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Speaker 2: So everything? Oh sure, Because first of all, to go

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Speaker 2: to any of those schools, you're living away from home.

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Speaker 2: So that's the first big change, which means you explore

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Speaker 2: your life, never mind the education, and you explore your

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Speaker 2: life differently. For me, I think being away from Saint

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Speaker 2: Louis would have made a big difference in how I

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Speaker 2: explored what I was doing. My mentor, God bless and

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Speaker 2: rest him, Don Garner, when I realized that I wanted

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Speaker 2: to go to New York, I went to him and

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Speaker 2: I said, look, I think I want to go to

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Speaker 2: New York. If you shut the door to his office,

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Speaker 2: he says, all right. I didn't say this, but I

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Speaker 2: think you will learn in the next two years in

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Speaker 2: New York what you would It would take you six

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Speaker 2: years here to learn if you go and apply yourself

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Speaker 2: and really do what I think you would do or

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Speaker 2: will do. And indeed, by the two years when my

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Speaker 2: class graduated, I was in my first Broadway show, which

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Speaker 2: is an all black revival of Guys and Dolls. Ah

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Speaker 2: ta da ta da.

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Speaker 1: Yeah? And how long did that run? Not long?

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Speaker 2: Now?

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Speaker 1: What do you attribute that to?

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Speaker 2: Well, it was very controversial because one it was an

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Speaker 2: all black version of something, and then this is mine

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Speaker 2: you'se nineteen seventy six, so things hadn't moved quite nearly

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Speaker 2: as far as they have come thus. And also it

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Speaker 2: was Guys and Dolls, which is a sacred musical theater piece.

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Speaker 2: And there were people who were pro because you know,

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Speaker 2: pro Bailey's version of Hello Dolly had already happened, and

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Speaker 2: people thought, oh my god, that was wonderful, So dus

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Speaker 2: Guys and Dolls. But I think because Hello Dolly is

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Speaker 2: such the whole from Thornton Wilder on, it's such an

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Speaker 2: open book of who these people are. Guys and Dolls

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Speaker 2: was a very specific New York Jewish idiom. So there

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Speaker 2: were people who thought we had no business tampering, tinkering,

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Speaker 2: toeling with Guys and Dolls. And then there were other

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Speaker 2: people who thought, thank god, there's some different energy on

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Speaker 2: it and our production, the arrangements, and we couldn't change

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Speaker 2: a note of the music. But that's all another story.

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Speaker 2: The arrangements had a sort of a a disco kind

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Speaker 2: of thing running under it, and when you hear the

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Speaker 2: Broadway cast album Night, it's really very electric and alive.

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Speaker 2: People loved it. Those who loved I remember may I

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Speaker 2: say rex Read said something about saying that thongs stood down,

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Speaker 2: you're rocking the boat, and he said, I turned it

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Speaker 2: into a gospel stomp, and it was just terrible. Oh

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Speaker 2: Rix was unkind to here, I'd say, yeah, oh God,

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Speaker 2: but he was unkind to everybody, but he was specifically.

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Speaker 2: But it was interesting because I always remember thinking, even

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Speaker 2: then at twenty one, I thought, we didn't Frank Lesser

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Speaker 2: write a gospel number. Isn't that what this is supposed

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Speaker 2: to be, these people in the Saber Soul Mission and

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Speaker 2: its gospel tings. And so for all we really did

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Speaker 2: was took it the next step towards what he was

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Speaker 2: writing to begin with, which I think the last eight

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Speaker 2: measures of the song go sit down, you're rock and

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Speaker 2: sit down, sit down, sit down, you're rocking the boat,

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Speaker 2: blah blah blah blah. Well they allowed us to change

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Speaker 2: that to the Devil drag you under socie you never

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Speaker 2: blow sit down, sit down, sit down, sit down, which

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Speaker 2: took it in another direction. Well, that was successful enough

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Speaker 2: that the audience would scream and carry on and they

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Speaker 2: loved it. So then they wrote an encore, which is

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Speaker 2: completely new, and sometimes the encore would get two and

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Speaker 2: three renditions a night. Thank god I was twenty one,

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Speaker 2: you know, because the people would stream and they'd applaud,

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Speaker 2: they go on and Joe Marshall, god Resten was our drummer.

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Speaker 2: It was really he who decided. He'd listened to the

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Speaker 2: crowd and he'd look at me and he'd listened to

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Speaker 2: the crowd, and then he'd hit the drum bill. But

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Speaker 2: DA had a dream, and the more the people screamed,

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Speaker 2: of course we'd do it again and again again. So

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Speaker 2: I'm saying that to say that was one of the

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Speaker 2: things out of that show that kept it going, frankly,

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Speaker 2: because people came to see what was new in Guys

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Speaker 2: and Dolls.

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Speaker 1: You weren't in the Wiz prior to Guys and Does No.

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Speaker 2: I've seen that written a few places, and I always

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Speaker 2: try to correct it because Guys and Dolls was nineteen

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Speaker 2: seventy six, and I didn't go into the Whiz until

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Speaker 2: late seventy six, almost seventy seven.

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Speaker 1: So you go from one adaptation of a sacred musical

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Speaker 1: to another adaptation of someone. I'm sure you also were

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Speaker 1: impersonating in the bathroom with a brush in your hand,

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Speaker 1: Judy Garland, when you go do the Wiz, was it

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Speaker 1: a different ball of wax there? And the way you

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Speaker 1: were treated with adapting Wizard.

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Speaker 2: Of Oz with a plodcast, Oh god ya Goodias because

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Speaker 2: the Wiz was unapologetically black, even though based on L.

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Speaker 2: Frank Baums and the music and so forth. But the

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Speaker 2: Wiz open and that was a blockbuster. It wasn't at

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Speaker 2: first they actually had their closing notice up and then

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Speaker 2: Ken Harper went to twentieth Century Fox. They invested in

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Speaker 2: a TV commercial and it was so great. And then

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Speaker 2: they went to the churches in Brooklyn. Stephanie Mills belonged

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Speaker 2: to the biggest church, African American church in Brooklyn. They

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Speaker 2: went to them. They then went to Sister brother churches.

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Speaker 2: All of these people started buying tickets and came in bustlows.

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Speaker 2: And we know the dollar rules. So as long as

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Speaker 2: there were people there, the show was going to keep running.

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Speaker 2: By virtue of it staying where it was. The word

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Speaker 2: of mouth picked up and then other people started coming.

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Speaker 2: It finished that story to say that by the time

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Speaker 2: it got around to the Tony Awards, they were nominated

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Speaker 2: for eleven Tony Awards. I think they won six.

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Speaker 1: So guysendals nicely, nicely, the Lion and the Wiz, and

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Speaker 1: these are not lead roles. You're playing more supporting roles.

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Speaker 1: And the next thing is Ain't Misbehaved in seventy eight?

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Speaker 2: Correct? Right?

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Speaker 1: And when you do that, you get a lead role

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Speaker 1: in Ain't Misbehaving?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, you know, I mean it's interesting because the

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Speaker 2: five characters, if you will and am misbehavin were all

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Speaker 2: supporting people. So the five of us really were the leads,

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Speaker 2: but we were used to being supporting people, so we

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Speaker 2: supported each other in the way that we had supported

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Speaker 2: other people in productions, which made it a very powerful ensemble.

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Speaker 1: When did you notice that you walked in the room

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Speaker 1: and everybody sat up and they were like, it's ken,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like you really the town

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Speaker 1: started to adopt you, that you were part of a

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Speaker 1: business in an industry in New York.

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Speaker 2: That was the blessing of Guys and Dalls is that

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Speaker 2: I did a beloved role and by me having some

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Speaker 2: sort of a personal signature on it. It separated me

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Speaker 2: from the great WK. So Broadways sort of said, who

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Speaker 2: is this I remember Clive Barnes. I didn't know who

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Speaker 2: he was at the time, but he wrote a sort

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Speaker 2: of love letter in The Times and saying who is

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Speaker 2: this guy? Where did he come from? People called me

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Speaker 2: up saying, did you read that thing at the Times

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Speaker 2: this morning? Clive Barnes wrote you a love letter? And

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Speaker 2: I'm like, well, who is Clive Barnes? First of all,

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Speaker 2: They're like, okay, why is he writing me love letters? Why?

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Speaker 2: Why is he writing me love letters? But what it

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Speaker 2: did was it opened the door to Broadway and it

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Speaker 2: said this guy is Broadway caliber. Wherever he came from,

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Speaker 2: welcome dot dot dot. So it sort of sucked me

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Speaker 2: right into the center of the Broadway community immediately, and

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Speaker 2: then to get to do the Whiz behind it, which

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Speaker 2: was a huge, huge, huge hit and still very much

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Speaker 2: at the top of the list of appreciated shows. I'll

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Speaker 2: tell this story and I think you'll know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: I had done a club act at Le Mouge. You know,

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Speaker 2: it was a big disco, but it was also a

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Speaker 2: big club there too. I did a tribute to all

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Speaker 2: of the black shows that were running on Broadway at

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Speaker 2: the time, and there were many at the time, and

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Speaker 2: I sort of linked them. I did a number songs

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Speaker 2: from Raisin and The Wiz and of course Guys and

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Speaker 2: Dolls and a couple of and I would link them

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Speaker 2: together with He's on on the road, Okay, let's go on,

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Speaker 2: we go, He's on down, He's on down, rude to

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Speaker 2: raise it and blow it. And some of the people

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Speaker 2: from The Wiz came to see my show because I

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Speaker 2: was in Guys and Dollars and they'd heard, so they

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Speaker 2: called me in shortly after Guys and Dolls closed, And

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Speaker 2: I had auditioned for The Wiz before, and I just

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Speaker 2: knew I was perfect for it because I'd seen the

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Speaker 2: out of town try out in Detroit, and I went

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Speaker 2: in and I sang men O line and they said,

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Speaker 2: thank you, that's it. I know I'm right for this.

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Speaker 2: Put How dam you say that like that? So when

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Speaker 2: it came back around, my agent said, well, you know,

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Speaker 2: they want to see you at the Majestic Theater and

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Speaker 2: I said, I auditioned for The Whiz. They didn't like me.

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Speaker 2: He said, no, no, I don't think you understand they saw

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Speaker 2: your club act. They want to see you at the

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Speaker 2: Majestic Theater. They're not having auditions, they're auditioning you. So

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Speaker 2: I said, oh shit. So I went in and Ken

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Speaker 2: Harper indeed was there, and I sang the songs and

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Speaker 2: he walked down to the edge of the stage and

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Speaker 2: he shook my hand and he says, are you busy

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Speaker 2: for the rest of the afternoon? And I said no.

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Speaker 2: He said, good, then go down and get your costume measurement.

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Speaker 2: And it took me a minute to understand that. Men

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Speaker 2: I got the part. I was like, why, what do

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Speaker 2: you want? How wonderful? Yeah, he said, So in answer

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Speaker 2: to your question, I would say, that's the first time

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Speaker 2: people sat up when I walked in the room. But

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Speaker 2: it was still different because they invited me into the room.

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Speaker 1: Broadway star Ken Page. If you enjoy listening to conversations

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Speaker 1: with the greats of musical theater, be sure to check

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Speaker 1: out my conversation with another Broadway star, Kelly O'Hara.

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Speaker 3: Even after eight shows a week, I find myself kind

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Speaker 3: of dealing with all of this, all of my innards

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Speaker 3: out there. It's how I filter, it's how I process,

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Speaker 3: I think and It's why I'm not quite tired of it.

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Speaker 3: For the most part, I find that I go inside

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Speaker 3: it as opposed to just dealing with it all out.

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Speaker 1: Here hear more of my conversation with Kelly O'Hara that

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Speaker 1: Here's the Thing dot org. After the break, ken Page

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Speaker 1: talks about learning comedic timing from some of the best

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Speaker 1: in the business. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to

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Speaker 1: Here's the Thing.

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Speaker 2: I dream last night. I got on the boat to Heaven,

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Speaker 2: and by some chance I had brought my dicilong and

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Speaker 2: there I stood, and I hollowed. Someone faid me, bought

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Speaker 2: the passage. Stay to right from raw for all the

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Speaker 2: people all sense it. Sit Down, you're rocking the boat, Yes,

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Speaker 2: rocking the boat.

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Speaker 1: That's Ken Page performing sit Down, You're rocking the Boat

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Speaker 1: from the nineteen seventy six Broadway revival of Guys and Dolls.

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Speaker 1: During his tenure on Broadway, Ken Page would often perform

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Speaker 1: solo in smaller clubs. Oftentimes, his castmates and other performers

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Speaker 1: were his best audience.

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Speaker 2: With the Broadway community, especially back then. You were in

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Speaker 2: that show at that time, but you were still part

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Speaker 2: of a larger community. At large. However long you'd been around,

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Speaker 2: chances are you'd worked with just about anybody or everybody

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Speaker 2: at some point. So there was this serious sense of

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Speaker 2: community that supported people new people. I can't even tell you.

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Speaker 2: I remember doing again Guys and Dolls eight Burrows, who

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Speaker 2: of course was a towering figure in the musical theater.

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Speaker 2: Him teaching me about comedy timing. He said, look, these

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Speaker 2: jokes are fun you know what I'm saying. I said, well,

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Speaker 2: I assume here, but you got to do a three

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Speaker 2: rhythm thing for him to work. If you break the rhythm,

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Speaker 2: they're not funny. And my example was I came out

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Speaker 2: with a sandwich and Nathan says, hey, nicely, where you been,

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Speaker 2: And I'd say I had to get something to eat.

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Speaker 2: I felt a little faint, and I would just say

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Speaker 2: the line crickets. You could hear NAT's fart. It was

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Speaker 2: that quiet, you know. And he said to me, no, no, a,

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Speaker 2: you got to take two beats before you speak, take

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Speaker 2: a bite of the sandwich, and then you say the

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Speaker 2: line with your mouth full, and it's funny. And I thought, well,

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Speaker 2: that's very specific. I don't know, you know, maybe I

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Speaker 2: don't want to do that. Hey, he wrote it. He

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Speaker 2: ought to know, right, So I did it. He says, hey, nicely,

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Speaker 2: where are you been? And I stopped and I took

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Speaker 2: a bite of the sandwich. I would I heard a

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Speaker 2: good trummery eat. I felt the little faint roaring laughter,

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Speaker 2: So you know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 2: And I thought to myself.

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Speaker 1: Learn, learn, learn, Isn't it true?

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Speaker 2: People were general, not only in the production, but they

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Speaker 2: were generous to tell you things.

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Speaker 1: So getting into that whole thing of like, you start

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Speaker 1: to feel more emboldened.

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Speaker 2: Sure, I think with each show successively you become more

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Speaker 2: and more aware of what you have that's yours, that

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Speaker 2: is applicable to whatever situation you're in. But it takes.

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Speaker 2: It's a process to you get that sort of confidence

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Speaker 2: that while I'm going to sing this song, there's something

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Speaker 2: I do with my boys, with my intention with this

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Speaker 2: that that is particular to me, that's going to make

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Speaker 2: this sing, you know what I mean? And with amous

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Speaker 2: behavin of course, the opportunity was golden because there was nothing. Hello,

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Speaker 2: there was a stack of Xerox music that Fats Rolla

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Speaker 2: and other people wrote, and then that was it.

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Speaker 1: Who shaped that? Who was responsible for shaping that?

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Speaker 2: Well, we all were. I'm going to say that now

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Speaker 2: on record, because Richard Maltby was a wonderful director in

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Speaker 2: many ways, and he certainly put us together. Murray Horowitz,

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Speaker 2: who was the jazz afficionado, and Arthur Fario, who was

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Speaker 2: our choreographer. It was really this combined effort of everybody.

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Speaker 2: Needless to say, five African American performers brought much of

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Speaker 2: what you saw from our own selves. There was no

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Speaker 2: written characters. There was no scenario that we were following.

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Speaker 2: It was just a matter of you walk in the

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Speaker 2: door and she walks over to you and she sayings, baby, baby,

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Speaker 2: what is the matter with you? Well, you got to

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Speaker 2: know who you are, what your intention is, what you're

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Speaker 2: trying to do. All that had to be provided by

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Speaker 2: the actor who was us right, And that was the

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Speaker 2: way the show really was created. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 2: it was set up.

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Speaker 1: So A'm misbehavin and then you go into Cats. Now,

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Speaker 1: you were in the original company of Cats, an original

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Speaker 1: Broadway cast. Yes, you were in the original You were

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Speaker 1: in the original Broadway company of Cas.

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Speaker 2: I was and our American Daughters in nineteen twenty six. Yes,

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Speaker 2: betdy Lynn Buckley and Harry Groener.

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Speaker 1: Oh amazing, Eddie Buckley, Oh my god. So how did

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Speaker 1: that come together?

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Speaker 2: Well, we want to say first, it was a huge

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Speaker 2: hid in London, so it had already sailed the seas.

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Speaker 2: It was just coming in our direction. But that was

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Speaker 2: part of what made it such a big deal for Broadways,

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Speaker 2: because it was such a huge hit in London and

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Speaker 2: they were going to do the American production.

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Speaker 1: And how do you get summoned to that?

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Speaker 2: Well, weirdly, because they were seeing people for six months

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Speaker 2: for the show. Everybody who could crawl on fore legs

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Speaker 2: was there auditioning. And I didn't think there was anything

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Speaker 2: in the show for me. I just thought it was

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Speaker 2: a dance show and it was about people and leotards,

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Speaker 2: not me. And I went out and paid any attention

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Speaker 2: and I went to the closing performance of Ain't Misbehaving

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Speaker 2: on Broadway. I wasn't in the show by that point,

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Speaker 2: but I went to the closing performance and Bernard Jacobs,

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Speaker 2: Bernie Jacobs was there and he came up to me

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Speaker 2: and said, Kenny, have you been seen for Cats? And

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Speaker 2: I said no, no, I haven't. I He says, I

404
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Speaker 2: want you to go in. I want you to blah blah, blah,

405
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Speaker 2: so oh Deuteronomy. I think it's a good role for you.

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Speaker 2: I didn't know anything about it. He said, go up

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Speaker 2: to Vinnie Lift's office and get the music, and I'm

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Speaker 2: going to have them call you in now. Footnote. They

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Speaker 2: had not called me in, and I was certainly someone

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Speaker 2: who was on the scene well enough by that point,

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Speaker 2: but I guess they did not see me the way

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Speaker 2: Bernie saw me. But he says, that's it. You're going

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Speaker 2: to go in and that's what it's going to be. Right.

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Speaker 2: So am there learning the addressing of cats. I'm going

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Speaker 2: over the song. I had to audition for the show,

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Speaker 2: and Amelia, my late dear dear friend Amelia was in

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Speaker 2: the room next to me, and she said, i'd hear

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Speaker 2: you in the shower page. You've heard of Sek, she said,

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Speaker 2: And I would think, okay, not so good yet, but

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Speaker 2: it'll get there right.

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Speaker 1: Work on that.

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Speaker 2: It was great, so we come back. I go in

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Speaker 2: and by this point it's the last week of the

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Speaker 2: auditions and they were really calling a lot of people's

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Speaker 2: names and throwing them around. So I go in on Monday.

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Speaker 2: I sing and they said okay, great, So they said

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Speaker 2: come back on Friday, and could you possibly he said,

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Speaker 2: could you possibly learn a dramatic monologue?

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Speaker 1: I thought, oh, f me from the show or from

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Speaker 1: some other source.

431
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:31,600
Speaker 2: Something anything, just a monologue, and I or not to

432
00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:36,280
Speaker 2: be here. Yes, I'm thinking, ain't it a musical? So

433
00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:38,640
Speaker 2: I go. I learned I luckily had done this monologue

434
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:40,640
Speaker 2: and a show I did about Louis Armstrong. I played

435
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:44,920
Speaker 2: the character Joe Oliver, his mentor. So I had a monologue. Okay,

436
00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:47,080
Speaker 2: so I come back. I do the monologue again. Trevor

437
00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:49,240
Speaker 2: comes in the stage after the monologue and he says,

438
00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:54,120
Speaker 2: your talents are many fold and manifest. I thought, well,

439
00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:57,479
Speaker 2: if that wasn't the kiss of death, I was like

440
00:22:57,560 --> 00:22:59,199
Speaker 2: thank you for playing game in the.

441
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:02,280
Speaker 1: British way of saying thank you.

442
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:05,520
Speaker 2: You know. So I go out Fire Island for the weekend.

443
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:09,560
Speaker 2: They're announcing it on Monday, and this is Friday, and

444
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:11,480
Speaker 2: I thought, I'm out of the city. I don't want

445
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:13,560
Speaker 2: to be here. So I get back Monday morning. The

446
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:17,320
Speaker 2: phone rings and it's Tyler Getchel and he says, oh,

447
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,280
Speaker 2: Kendage is Tyler Gotchel? I said, yes, Tyler, good morning.

448
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 1: How are you?

449
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:23,200
Speaker 2: I want to say, tell fuck around, just tell you

450
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:25,560
Speaker 2: what's up? I said, I'm good. I'm good. He goes, well,

451
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,280
Speaker 2: we were wondering here in the office if you'd like

452
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:31,639
Speaker 2: to play old Deuteronomy and cats for us, and you know,

453
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,560
Speaker 2: you not feeling when your heart like sinks and rises

454
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:38,000
Speaker 2: at the same time. And I thought, yeah, yes I will,

455
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:40,560
Speaker 2: I would please, Yes, I'll take it.

456
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 1: How long did you do the show?

457
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:43,040
Speaker 2: Two years?

458
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:45,720
Speaker 1: Did you find that?

459
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:46,000
Speaker 2: You know?

460
00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:50,280
Speaker 1: Two years? I mean, my god, two years of your life.

461
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,640
Speaker 1: Every night? What happens during the arc of the two.

462
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 2: Years many things. The beginning, of course, is exciting because

463
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:01,040
Speaker 2: it's the opening and this and the energy and that

464
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:04,880
Speaker 2: carries you almost a year. Then it settles in like, okay,

465
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:08,040
Speaker 2: now they're coming to see what they've heard about, which

466
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 2: means second phase, You've got to deliver the show. It's

467
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:12,800
Speaker 2: not just a matter of coming out there on the

468
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,359
Speaker 2: energy of being fabulous and amazing. Now you've got to

469
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:17,680
Speaker 2: deliver them the show that they have paid this high

470
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:21,720
Speaker 2: price ticket to see that they've heard is amazing. I

471
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:24,399
Speaker 2: like to say that's the second phase. You've got to

472
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 2: meet the standard of the show, not just your own standard.

473
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:29,600
Speaker 2: And then the third phase is where I think it

474
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:33,439
Speaker 2: becomes a matter of being a professional where you know

475
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:35,600
Speaker 2: what you're supposed to do, you know the temperature of

476
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,320
Speaker 2: the show, you know what it's supposed to do. If

477
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:41,159
Speaker 2: you know what I mean and you do it, it

478
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 2: isn't always inspired, because some nights you do not feel it,

479
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,720
Speaker 2: but you have posts road marks that you hit that

480
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:51,959
Speaker 2: gets you through the show, and your technique will carry

481
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 2: you the performer. The show will carry everyone, but your

482
00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:59,399
Speaker 2: technique will carry you personally. And I think also it

483
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:01,240
Speaker 2: has a lot to do with how you were trained

484
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:03,880
Speaker 2: and you know how you came through the ropes as

485
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 2: to how you do that. I came from the old

486
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 2: school of you know, you give it or all you

487
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 2: hit it. And if you're doing that, you're not even

488
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:13,439
Speaker 2: conscious of it being maybe boring or a little rote,

489
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:17,399
Speaker 2: because you always find yourself in the doing.

490
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:22,000
Speaker 1: You know, you're considered one of the great great performers

491
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:23,920
Speaker 1: in the musical theater and you walk into the room.

492
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 1: What does a director have to offer you?

493
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I will use someone as an example,

494
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 2: Michael Griffe, who directed many wonderful things, but Rent was

495
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 2: among them. And I've worked with Michael twice. We did

496
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 2: a production of Brandy Newman's Faust. I love Michael Grife

497
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,479
Speaker 2: because he's one of the and I you know, I

498
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,359
Speaker 2: admit I'm not easy because I've been around a long time.

499
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:49,120
Speaker 2: So if you don't know something, you better know something.

500
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,679
Speaker 2: That's what I'm leading to. Yeah, And my feeling is

501
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 2: if you know something, I'm down with it. Tell me

502
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:57,919
Speaker 2: what you know. But if you don't know anything, you

503
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,680
Speaker 2: cannot fake it out with me. Because I see you

504
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:02,399
Speaker 2: as my grandmother. You say I knew where you were

505
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 2: going before you knew where you were going. It's real,

506
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. Michael Grif is one of

507
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 2: those directors where and he's so like open and interested

508
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:13,439
Speaker 2: in what you think, and not in the sense of

509
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 2: you get to do whatever you want. That's not it

510
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:17,960
Speaker 2: at all. It's like, well, let's talk about what is

511
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 2: it that you think.

512
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:20,919
Speaker 1: There's no bad ideas. There's no bad ideas.

513
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,640
Speaker 2: Oh, there's no bad idea. And I did another show

514
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 2: with him called Most Wanted, a musical, which was believe

515
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:31,399
Speaker 2: it or not, a musicalization of the Kunanan murder. Oh God.

516
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 2: It was really actually very very good and dark and

517
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 2: so forth. It was too dark for people. This is

518
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:37,879
Speaker 2: before the TV movie and all that sort of stuff,

519
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 2: and people were freaked the fuck out.

520
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 1: This is the VERSACEI murder.

521
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you did a musical about that, Yes, Holy,

522
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 2: a wonderful musical. And of course Persashi was the end

523
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,399
Speaker 2: of his murdering spree. What was the name of the show,

524
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:52,880
Speaker 2: post wanted?

525
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:55,360
Speaker 1: Oh my god? And what year was this produced?

526
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 2: Oh god, about fifteen years ago at La Joya playhouse.

527
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:00,920
Speaker 1: It didn't transfer, it didn't go anywhere.

528
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 2: They talked about it. We did another reading thing of

529
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 2: it in New York. I played a drag queen named

530
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:13,239
Speaker 2: Stormy Leather. Oh God, thank you, thank you. I'm here

531
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 2: all week. Yeah. And I had this great song called

532
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:20,479
Speaker 2: never Saw It Coming, which was about how you do

533
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 2: these things in life and you never see it coming.

534
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 2: You think you're going to do this, you're going to

535
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:26,400
Speaker 2: be that you're going to do and then something else

536
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 2: happens and you never see it coming. And the first

537
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,639
Speaker 2: line of the song was I met a bitch the boy,

538
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:35,480
Speaker 2: which gives you a setup. I knew a bitch. The

539
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 2: boy had it all class, money, everything and so on

540
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:43,359
Speaker 2: and so forth. Very deep, very dark show. Anyway, Michael

541
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:45,520
Speaker 2: says to me, and I'm doing the thing and it's working.

542
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 2: You know, it's doing well. I said, Michael, I keep

543
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 2: having this feeling. I said, would you mind if I

544
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 2: can I smoke? And this is the example of Michael

545
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 2: Grive And he looked at me as only he can.

546
00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:03,120
Speaker 2: He goes, I wish you would please do? I said yes, yes,

547
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,200
Speaker 2: And it changed the whole feel of it because one

548
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:08,959
Speaker 2: the lighting and the cigarette smoke and the whole thing.

549
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 2: And it gave me something to start with. And I

550
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 2: exhaled on the first note, you know, all that kind

551
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 2: of shit you do. And it made it a thought

552
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:17,639
Speaker 2: rather than a delivery of a thought.

553
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 1: It was a Burrows and the sandwich all over again.

554
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:24,120
Speaker 2: That's right. Hey, Hello, if I could take an inhale

555
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,879
Speaker 2: on this cigarette and exhale and go I met a boy,

556
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 2: oh baby, bitch had it all? It set up a

557
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:34,200
Speaker 2: whole different thing, you know.

558
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:37,400
Speaker 1: Now, La New York, LA New York, LA New York.

559
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 1: Saint Louis. How did the Great Ken Page decide? Saint

560
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 1: Louis is where I need to be in this point

561
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 1: in my life?

562
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 2: Well, other than your mom, well that's kind of I mean,

563
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 2: if it were only you know, it was my mom,

564
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 2: my stepdad. I have two aunts, one of whom I'm

565
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 2: in charge of her care now she's in a facility.

566
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 2: But I knew Alec that they were all getting older.

567
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 2: And the older I got, the more I started to

568
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 2: understand they weren't these wizard people that I thought they

569
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 2: were when I was young. They were vulnerable. There were

570
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 2: needs that they had that they didn't even know how

571
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 2: to be yen to address. And as they got older,

572
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 2: they couldn't, you know, sort of jockey their way through

573
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 2: it. It was becoming more of an issue how to dot

574
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 2: dot dot and not, you know, to put it all

575
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 2: on them. It was as easier to be here, and

576
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 2: I did a calculation of could I still work from here?

577
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 2: And I had initiated a show that I don call

578
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 2: Page by page, which is an autobiographical two hour one

579
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 2: hand and blah blah blah, and I went all over

580
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 2: the country with it. That's how I kept my bills paid.

581
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 2: I took I got on the road like an old

582
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 2: actor does, and I sang my songs and I got

583
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 2: my check and I touched a lot of people. But

584
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 2: I could do that from Saint Louis.

585
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 1: Of course, show business, whether it's sports, music, entertainment, the

586
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 1: African American performer gets into the same limo. He's picked

587
00:29:57,400 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 1: up to go to the show. He's got the star

588
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 1: dressing room. Everything is when you're making money for them.

589
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 1: Everything is as fluffy and as comfortable for the white

590
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 1: or the black performer. But whoever roadblocks for you in

591
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 1: that area?

592
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 2: Oh are you getting all the time? It's a constant.

593
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 2: I can say that, and I don't mean that to

594
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 2: be evasive. It's a constant from the time. I think

595
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 2: of when I started in seventy six with guys and dolls,

596
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 2: where people would say to my face, how dare you

597
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 2: that's wk's roll? And I'm thinking, but I'm up there

598
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 2: eight times a week. I'm doing it, on on on,

599
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 2: through many things Cats. When I was casting Cats, there

600
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 2: were people black and white who just were not having it.

601
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 2: The white continuency thought someone white should have, of course

602
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 2: been cast. Why did they cast me. My brothers and

603
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 2: sisters were like, well, you've gone over to the enemy,

604
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. But mind you, any one

605
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 2: of them would have certainly been happy to have the part.

606
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 2: So it's a constant. In Hollywood. It was very difficult.

607
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 2: There were many auditions. I went on Alec where they

608
00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 2: just wanted me to just be more urban, which was

609
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 2: a code. You know. I did one show where I

610
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 2: played the owner of a diet company. Okay, that's funny enough.

611
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 2: I'm a big guy. But as the progression of the

612
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 2: rehearsals went on, they said, well, you're going to come

613
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 2: in eating a candy bar. I thought, come on, you know,

614
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 2: it's funny enough, you don't have to put a candy bar.

615
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:20,480
Speaker 2: By the time we got to filming, they gave me

616
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 2: a giant, oversized hershey bar that I was to walk

617
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 2: in with, and those kinds of things. That's just sort

618
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 2: of on the one side, but it is a constant

619
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 2: and it continues, you know. And because I have been

620
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 2: around a long time and I am sixty seven years

621
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 2: old as of yesterday. You know what I'm saying, I

622
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 2: know what's up. And people try to bullshit you with

623
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 2: stuff that they're trying to veil, or you know, they're

624
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 2: really being racial, or they're being prejudicial. My generation, we

625
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 2: were the beneficiaries of the idea we better do the

626
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 2: right thing because people are watching. The generation before us

627
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 2: was we can do anything we want because nobody's watching.

628
00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:00,720
Speaker 1: You know, my kids are obviously going through the catalog

629
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 1: of films, and they wanted to start watching Nightmare before Christmas.

630
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 1: And of course there's nothing more thrilling in my life

631
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 1: than being captivated by a performance of you as Oogie

632
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 1: Boogie and me sitting there on a couch with my

633
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 1: kids and going, I know him, I know him, And

634
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 1: they're like, my kids are gonna be like, oh please,

635
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 1: I never seen night Before Christmas and I see it

636
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 1: like six months ago, and we watch it. You know,

637
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 1: the kids want to watch every movie twenty times, and

638
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 1: so we watch it. It's very inventive. And inside of

639
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 1: that song it defines your talent. You do so many things.

640
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 1: What makes you one of the greatest performers in the

641
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 1: history of the musical theater ever, is the acting inside

642
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 1: the singing. How did that go down?

643
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 2: As a child, like I said, in my room, playing

644
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 2: cast albums and being everybody on the album and so forth.

645
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 2: That was the beginning of all that for me, because

646
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 2: you know, for me, I wasn't seeing anything. I was

647
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 2: only hearing it. Right, So when night Member Before Christmas

648
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 2: came around, I thought, oh my god, I'm gonna get

649
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 2: to do what I've been tipping around for years.

650
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 1: Man, Do you ever? Man? Do you ever? You feel

651
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 1: that song you've got there's so much great acting inside

652
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 1: that song, and and and you're vocalizing. I produced you

653
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 1: in a show one time. Yes, And I think the

654
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 1: deepest I ever fell in love with another man, I'm

655
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 1: a straight guy. But the deepest I've ever fell in

656
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:22,960
Speaker 1: love with the man was when he sang you with me.

657
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 1: We're going to sing one phrase of this ready whispering

658
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 1: bo temy Ta in love. You sang that song, and

659
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 1: I melted in the earth. The sky is the most

660
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 1: beautiful soul. And you are of the people I've known

661
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 1: in this business, one of the most beautiful souls I've

662
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 1: ever met in my life. You're so talented, well that

663
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:50,960
Speaker 1: is beyond kind. I love you, and I love your talent.

664
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 2: I love you back.

665
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 1: Actor and singer Ken Page. Betty Buckley grew up dreaming

666
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:08,320
Speaker 1: of singing her heart out and in the stuff of legend.

667
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 1: On her first day in New York City, Betty Buckley

668
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 1: landed a part in the Broadway musical seventeen seventy six.

669
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 1: That early success gave her a chance to prove to

670
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,799
Speaker 1: herself and the folks back home she was ready.

671
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 4: My mom had been a singer dancer growing up, and

672
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:29,759
Speaker 4: she was very good, very talented, but my father, when

673
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 4: he married her, told her she couldn't do that anymore.

674
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:34,840
Speaker 4: My father was a lieutenant colonel in the Air Force.

675
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 4: When I was in the fifth grade, he retired and

676
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:41,800
Speaker 4: he became a college professor. He was a really brilliant guy,

677
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:45,239
Speaker 4: but he was very opposed to show business. And my

678
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 4: mother had this extensive cast album collection and all the

679
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:52,959
Speaker 4: great singers and everything, and she sang around the house

680
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,360
Speaker 4: all the time. So I was exposed to all that

681
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 4: very early on and loved it. And she took me

682
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 4: to see my first musical, which was The Game with

683
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 4: the original Bob Fosse choreography, when I was eleven, and

684
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 4: when the number steam heat and I remember where I

685
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 4: was sitting in the theater, and there was this energy

686
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,440
Speaker 4: that just went up to my head. What I've learned

687
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 4: as an adult was an epiphany, you know, and it's

688
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:18,320
Speaker 4: just like boom, that that's what you're going to be

689
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 4: doing for the rest of your life. So then from

690
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 4: age eleven, I became fixated on that.

691
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 1: What did you do with that fixation?

692
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 4: Well, I listened to Bye Bye Bertie all the time,

693
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:29,280
Speaker 4: and I told my mother, you know, I could play

694
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 4: one of the teenagers in that, And when she was

695
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:34,800
Speaker 4: mad at me, I would run down the hall into

696
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 4: her room and slide in on my knees and do

697
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 4: the whole speech that the kid does to Conrad Bertie,

698
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 4: tell us, oh beautiful one, tell us how you make

699
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:43,240
Speaker 4: that glorious salady?

700
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 1: One less kiss?

701
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:45,880
Speaker 4: Yes exactly.

702
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:48,080
Speaker 1: I worked around my house for years. My mother would go,

703
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:50,640
Speaker 1: when are you going to do your homework? I go, baby, well,

704
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 1: kiss really sublime mold. I mean, I knew that song exactly.

705
00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:00,400
Speaker 4: That was his junior high talent show that I wanted

706
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 4: to be in. But I was really short forever. I

707
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 4: was like four feet eight inches tall forever, and I

708
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:08,880
Speaker 4: grew all at once. In one summer, I thought I

709
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:11,920
Speaker 4: would be short forever, and I thought, well, maybe I'll

710
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:14,399
Speaker 4: be the first girl jockey, you know. But anyway, there

711
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:16,920
Speaker 4: was this talent show and I came home and I

712
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 4: knew they would never ask me to be in it.

713
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 4: But I'd studied dance with my aunt since I was three.

714
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 4: She was a dance teacher and my grandmother, so I

715
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 4: had these two very powerful female role models that were

716
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 4: performers and artists, and I told my mother I wanted

717
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:35,479
Speaker 4: to do Steam Heat and the Junior High Talent Show.

718
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:38,719
Speaker 4: And my mother was like, oh, that's interesting because the

719
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:40,879
Speaker 4: guys who were the choreographer and the director of that

720
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:43,919
Speaker 4: just opened a dance studio in Fort Worth. I will

721
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:46,319
Speaker 4: call them. So she called them and said, my daughter

722
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:49,359
Speaker 4: wants to learn Steam Heat and they said, well, can

723
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:51,719
Speaker 4: she sing? And I was like yeah, because I sung

724
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:53,440
Speaker 4: in the church choir, but they always put me in

725
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:55,400
Speaker 4: the back row and told me to blend in, you know.

726
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:57,399
Speaker 4: So I sang and they said no, no, Betty, sing

727
00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:59,799
Speaker 4: as loud as you can. So I knew I had

728
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:00,800
Speaker 4: this giant voice.

729
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 1: When did you know you had a giant voice? When?

730
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 4: Because I was constantly singing with all the great lady

731
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 4: singers in my bedroom to their albums and basically imitating them.

732
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:13,080
Speaker 4: And I knew I had this like sound, but I

733
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:16,720
Speaker 4: didn't know its value because our choir teacher would always

734
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 4: put me on the back row and really get annoyed

735
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 4: because my voice cuts through, you know, and I was

736
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 4: trying so hard to sing soft, but it still has

737
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:30,719
Speaker 4: this resonant edge. So they told me to sing as

738
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:32,319
Speaker 4: loud as I could, so I did and I just

739
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:34,960
Speaker 4: felt unleashed, and they were like, oh my god. And

740
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 4: those guys made me realize I had this unique voice.

741
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:41,279
Speaker 4: So they gave me the original Fosse choreography and I

742
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:44,840
Speaker 4: got in the Junior High Talent show and I brought

743
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 4: the house down. They all went nuts, and from that

744
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:50,480
Speaker 4: time I was like little bitty Betty Buckley with this

745
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:54,399
Speaker 4: giant voice. Then my mother became this like huge stage mother,

746
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 4: and she was constantly entering me and everything, and my

747
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:00,799
Speaker 4: father was going nuts about it. And then I got

748
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 4: my first professional job when I was fifteen. I played

749
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:07,400
Speaker 4: the role of Dainty June and Gypsy at our local

750
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:09,840
Speaker 4: theater and I joined Equity and all that stuff, and

751
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:13,279
Speaker 4: then I worked there every summer, and so I had

752
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 4: a lot of experience by the time I got to

753
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 4: New York.

754
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 1: What got you to New York?

755
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:22,800
Speaker 4: Well, I was recruited to enter the Miss for Worth pageant.

756
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:25,560
Speaker 4: I hated beauty pageants. I mean, I'm sorry to say

757
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 4: all that, because I have friends and beauty pageants and

758
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 4: I won a lot of scholarships.

759
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 1: And it wasn't for you. Shall we say?

760
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 4: I was this budding young feminist. I was a charter

761
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:38,320
Speaker 4: subscriber to Miss magazine, and Glorious Steinham gave me words

762
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:40,520
Speaker 4: for all these feelings of inequity that.

763
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:44,800
Speaker 1: Ethel Merman meets Gloria Steinem that's a good one.

764
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 4: I'll take that. But you didn't want that, No, I

765
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 4: was embarrassed by it. I remember once I won the

766
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:55,879
Speaker 4: Miss for Worth pageant, because I was basically recruited to

767
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:59,720
Speaker 4: do that, and then I was in the Miss Texas pageant.

768
00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 4: Didn't win the talent competition, which was really strange. So

769
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:05,719
Speaker 4: I was a runner up to Miss Texas, I think

770
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 4: second runner up or something. But the producer of the

771
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:12,200
Speaker 4: Miss America pageant was there, and I was invited the

772
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 4: following year to be a guest entertainer at the Miss

773
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:18,960
Speaker 4: America pageant. And this agent saw me on television sing

774
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,880
Speaker 4: and dance, and they asked me to fly to New

775
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 4: York right after the Miss America Pageant to audition for them.

776
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:27,880
Speaker 4: So it was Ashley Famous Agency which became ICM, and

777
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 4: there was a very famous agent named Eric Sheppard. I

778
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:34,560
Speaker 4: sang for these like eleven or twelve agents, and he

779
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 4: just stood up and said signer and he walked out

780
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:41,120
Speaker 4: of the room. So this responsible agent, Roger has who

781
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:43,799
Speaker 4: went on to become a big Broadway producer. He's a

782
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 4: really nice, wonderful guy, still a great friend. He said, well,

783
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 4: what do you want to do? And I said, I

784
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:51,200
Speaker 4: have to go back and finish college or my father

785
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:54,279
Speaker 4: will kill me. So he he was like, Okay, do that,

786
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 4: and when you finish college, you'll come to New York.

787
00:39:56,960 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 1: And you did finish TCU for journalism. Yeah, why why a.

788
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:03,760
Speaker 4: Journalism because my mother had been a journalist. My dad

789
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 4: thought that being a journalist was a complimentary profession for

790
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 4: a wife and mother to the husband. But that my

791
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 4: purpose in life, as all young women should have, he thought,

792
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:17,800
Speaker 4: was to be married and have children. But I didn't

793
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:20,120
Speaker 4: want to do that. I wanted to go to New York.

794
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:23,560
Speaker 4: And I knew what my voice would sound like, and

795
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:26,920
Speaker 4: I knew how it would affect people. And then when

796
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:28,960
Speaker 4: I was thirty five and I was in my dressing

797
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:32,680
Speaker 4: room at the Winter Garden, they brought in my recording

798
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 4: of memory after we'd made the record, and I heard

799
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:39,279
Speaker 4: the recording and that vision flashed back of when I

800
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 4: was thirteen, and I was like, oh, it took from

801
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 4: age thirteen to thirty five but there it is. So anyway,

802
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:50,719
Speaker 4: this agent kept calling me after college and asking me

803
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 4: to come to New York, and I was at that

804
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:56,239
Speaker 4: point I was really experiencing I think PTSD because I'd

805
00:40:56,239 --> 00:41:00,200
Speaker 4: been with Miss America on a USO tour and Miss

806
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:02,919
Speaker 4: America and I and one other girl went into all

807
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 4: the intensive care units and all the hospitals in Japan,

808
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:09,240
Speaker 4: and we also toured all the military bases in Korea.

809
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:13,920
Speaker 4: I was like, my dad is wrong. War is not noble.

810
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:14,279
Speaker 2: You know.

811
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:16,760
Speaker 4: My father was a real hawk and he really believed

812
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:19,359
Speaker 4: in the nobility of war and stuff. And I came

813
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:22,800
Speaker 4: back really changed, and we were in a consistent debate

814
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:26,680
Speaker 4: about the validity of a show business career, which he

815
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:30,319
Speaker 4: thought was beneath me. And I was very confused about

816
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:32,319
Speaker 4: it all. And I was also in love when I

817
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 4: was a senior with this Dallas cowboy quarterback and he

818
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:39,279
Speaker 4: turned out to be he broke my heart. So when

819
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 4: I came back, I thought, okay, forget my show business aspirations.

820
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 4: Because I was a journalism major and I'd written for

821
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:47,879
Speaker 4: this newspaper quite a lot. I even had a teen

822
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:50,840
Speaker 4: page when I was in college for the Fort Worth Press.

823
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:53,800
Speaker 4: So I had a job there, and I thought, Okay,

824
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 4: that's it. I'm just going to do this, and so

825
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:58,319
Speaker 4: the agent kept calling and he got me to come

826
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 4: see this show in Dallas my mother, which was an

827
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:05,160
Speaker 4: industrial show that Flip Wilson, the comedian was doing with

828
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:08,880
Speaker 4: a band called Your Father's Mustache. So they called me

829
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:11,439
Speaker 4: up on stage and had me sing. And the only

830
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:13,759
Speaker 4: song I knew Mike key and was You Made Me

831
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:16,360
Speaker 4: Love You. So I sang it and the audience went nuts,

832
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:19,920
Speaker 4: which was great. And then Rogers talks to the buyer

833
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:22,719
Speaker 4: and they offered me a job to put me in

834
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:25,279
Speaker 4: this show but to pretend I'm an audience member in

835
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 4: all these different cities. And they offered me a lot

836
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:29,879
Speaker 4: of money. It was way more than I was being

837
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:33,880
Speaker 4: paid at the Fourth Press. So my father couldn't deny

838
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 4: the job the money, and so he reluctantly let me

839
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 4: do that.

840
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:41,080
Speaker 1: When I think of you, I think of the acting

841
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 1: and the singing, and the acting is in the singing.

842
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:44,920
Speaker 4: Thank you.

843
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:47,840
Speaker 1: When you teach people, you teach acting or singing.

844
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:50,239
Speaker 4: I've taught for the Terry Shribers School for years and

845
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:52,320
Speaker 4: years and years, and I used to teach scenes, study

846
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:55,560
Speaker 4: and song interpretation. And I was teaching these five day

847
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 4: workshops maybe three times a year for them whenever I

848
00:42:58,600 --> 00:42:59,200
Speaker 4: was in New York.

849
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:01,240
Speaker 1: And what do you teach them about how the acting

850
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:02,360
Speaker 1: influences the singing?

851
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 4: Well, that's complicated. I was really fortunate that in seventeen

852
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:09,799
Speaker 4: seventy six I worked with all these incredible actors. There

853
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:12,880
Speaker 4: were like thirty men and two women, and they really

854
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 4: mentored me, and they were like, set me down when

855
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:17,480
Speaker 4: I was twenty one and I'd gotten that show my

856
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 4: first day in New York City because of this wonderful agent,

857
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:23,720
Speaker 4: Roger Hess, who got me to New York and shepherd

858
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:26,839
Speaker 4: me into that and so I got that audition, which

859
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 4: was amazing. So they sent me down and said, look, Betty,

860
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:31,439
Speaker 4: this is what you're good at, this is what you've

861
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:34,680
Speaker 4: got talent wise, and this is what you need to learn.

862
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:39,480
Speaker 4: Go here, go there, do this, And so I did

863
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:42,440
Speaker 4: because I loved musical theater. I loved but it used

864
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:44,880
Speaker 4: to be called musical comedy, right, So there was like

865
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 4: a dancing course and a singing chorus and you know,

866
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 4: everything was separate, and everything was like you know, SHOWBZ,

867
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 4: and so I wanted. I really my favorite actresses were

868
00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:00,880
Speaker 4: Kim Stanley and Geraldine Paige and later on Rolands, and

869
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 4: I was like, oh my god, what it must be

870
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 4: like to have that skilly dramatic actions. Yeah, to do

871
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:11,040
Speaker 4: like really psychological portraits, to like bring raw truth to

872
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:14,279
Speaker 4: a theater and film, And you know, I wanted to

873
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:18,440
Speaker 4: be that skilled and I wasn't. So I was really

874
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:21,360
Speaker 4: lucky that in that time period I did some Broadways shows.

875
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 4: And then I got that TV show eight Is Enough

876
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:25,719
Speaker 4: and not eight is Enough. I went to my dailies

877
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 4: and I was like, wait a minute, I get I

878
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:30,759
Speaker 4: see ten seconds of good work over there when I'm

879
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:33,360
Speaker 4: in the doorway. Why can't I bring that same quality

880
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:35,440
Speaker 4: to the scene work right? What's wrong with me? And

881
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:39,439
Speaker 4: I was also studying with Stelle Adler. I never put

882
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 4: my work in front of her. I took her acting class,

883
00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 4: I took her script analysis class in New York, and

884
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 4: I took her script analysis class again in LA. While

885
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:49,000
Speaker 4: I was on It Is Enough, I knew I wasn't

886
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:53,400
Speaker 4: a good enough actress to keep my sense of self

887
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:56,719
Speaker 4: respect or whatever, you know. If she gave me her

888
00:44:56,960 --> 00:45:00,239
Speaker 4: like searing critiques, I wasn't ready. So that was a Okay.

889
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:02,880
Speaker 4: I learned a lot in the back row taking copious notes.

890
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:06,680
Speaker 4: But that TV show was great because I really was

891
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:09,719
Speaker 4: able to see what worked and why you were.

892
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:11,799
Speaker 1: On that for two seasons, three seasons? How many?

893
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:12,080
Speaker 4: Four?

894
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:13,960
Speaker 1: Four seasons? Dick Patten.

895
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:17,440
Speaker 4: Yeah. And then on the heels of Eight Is Enough,

896
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:21,560
Speaker 4: I got the wonderful classic American film Tender Mercy starring

897
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:25,400
Speaker 4: Robert Duvall, with a Horton foot script directed by Bruce Beresford,

898
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:28,760
Speaker 4: and I was like, oh my god, she's an alcoholic

899
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:31,000
Speaker 4: country western singing show.

900
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:31,320
Speaker 2: General.

901
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:33,560
Speaker 4: It was like written for me.

902
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:34,600
Speaker 1: There's your chance.

903
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:37,360
Speaker 4: It was amazing, and I learned so much working with

904
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:41,200
Speaker 4: Duval and Wilford Brimley and Ellen Barkin. And they wouldn't

905
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:43,919
Speaker 4: let me see my dailies until I finished the job.

906
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 4: And then they brought me in on a Saturday and

907
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:48,719
Speaker 4: had me sit down and look at my scenes back

908
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:50,960
Speaker 4: to back. And I sat there in that little screening

909
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:54,200
Speaker 4: room and I was like, oh, okay, I know how

910
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:56,280
Speaker 4: to do this now when you're.

911
00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:59,160
Speaker 1: There, you're in Los Angeles. Eight is Enough was what

912
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 1: the late seventies, mid seventies.

913
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:03,960
Speaker 4: Was seventy nine to eighty one.

914
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:07,200
Speaker 1: So when you're out there doing you shot it in California.

915
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:09,880
Speaker 1: And when you're out there and you go from a

916
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:12,239
Speaker 1: show that I recall was a successful show that was.

917
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:13,280
Speaker 4: A hitch the show it's huge.

918
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:16,040
Speaker 1: Why don't you just stay out in California and camp

919
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:20,400
Speaker 1: out there and pursue movies and television? Well? Were you

920
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:22,120
Speaker 1: just addicted to singing on Broadway?

921
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:24,720
Speaker 4: Well? I knew I was going to sing on Broadway,

922
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:26,720
Speaker 4: and I had this brilliant teacher and I was flying

923
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:29,720
Speaker 4: back to work with him every six weeks, which the

924
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 4: Heads of eight is enough mocked me for I remember

925
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:35,440
Speaker 4: this guy passed me in the parking lot and I

926
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:37,279
Speaker 4: was driving a Bundy rint Wreck and he had a

927
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:40,600
Speaker 4: black Porsche A he sleek, black hair and wore black

928
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:43,360
Speaker 4: clothes and he's like, where are you going? And I'm like,

929
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:45,399
Speaker 4: I'm going to New York for my voice lessen. He goes,

930
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:48,480
Speaker 4: you have such delusion of grandeur, Betty, You'll be lucky

931
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:50,600
Speaker 4: if you play American Mothers the rest of your life.

932
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:53,360
Speaker 4: And I was like, we'll see, Greg, We'll see.

933
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:54,360
Speaker 1: Isn't that horrible?

934
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:54,560
Speaker 2: God?

935
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:54,880
Speaker 1: That makes me?

936
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:59,120
Speaker 4: They were really weird guys, I mean, and they were mean,

937
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:02,600
Speaker 4: really mean, But anyway, I survived all that, and so

938
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:05,760
Speaker 4: I got this tener Mercies and then I got Cats.

939
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:09,200
Speaker 4: That following on the heels of that Tener Mercies was

940
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:13,799
Speaker 4: actually released in the winter. That Cats opened in October.

941
00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:16,000
Speaker 1: But is that what you want to go? From Tender

942
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:18,240
Speaker 1: Mercies to the next movie?

943
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:20,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, that would have been great, But my dream was

944
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:25,920
Speaker 4: to bring like, really that authenticity to the musical theater

945
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:29,399
Speaker 4: to originate, right, and so those of us who were

946
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:32,920
Speaker 4: fortunate enough to work in the musical theater, we changed

947
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 4: the face of the musical theater in that time period,

948
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:39,960
Speaker 4: you know, with Sondheim, Fosse, all that. It. It evolved

949
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:45,720
Speaker 4: from musical comedy to musical theater. And Grizabella in Cats

950
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:50,200
Speaker 4: Singing Memory was my first opportunity to bring that level

951
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:55,600
Speaker 4: of dramatic intensity to the musical theater stage. And I

952
00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:57,880
Speaker 4: knew it was my turn, and I knew I was

953
00:47:57,960 --> 00:47:58,799
Speaker 4: ready to do that.

954
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:01,880
Speaker 1: So had you been off an attractive role in a

955
00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:04,279
Speaker 1: film on the heels of Tender Mercies, you would have

956
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 1: passed because Kats was what you wanted to do.

957
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:07,839
Speaker 2: That's what I think.

958
00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:10,520
Speaker 4: That's a weird exercise. Would I have passed? I don't

959
00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:13,440
Speaker 4: know everything. I'm sharing with you. I learned in retrospect

960
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 4: and but honestly, growing up I didn't think I was beautiful,

961
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:19,879
Speaker 4: and I aspired to the musical theater. Then I met

962
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 4: Brian de Palmer and auditioned for his film Fandom of

963
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:27,239
Speaker 4: the Paradise. He didn't cast me, but several months after

964
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:29,279
Speaker 4: that he took me to dinner and gave me the

965
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:31,320
Speaker 4: book Carrie and said, read this book. I want you

966
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:32,360
Speaker 4: to play the gym teacher.

967
00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:33,880
Speaker 1: Awful gym teacher.

968
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 4: She was a great character. So that was a great

969
00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 4: film debut that he gave me the opportunity to do.

970
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 4: And then from that movie I got it is enough

971
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:45,759
Speaker 4: Now it is enough. Was at the time I thought

972
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:50,240
Speaker 4: I'd made a horrible mistake taking a job. Why because

973
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:53,919
Speaker 4: I was like working in a factory and in retrospect

974
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:57,080
Speaker 4: only it was where I needed to be to learn

975
00:48:57,120 --> 00:48:57,759
Speaker 4: the next thing.

976
00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:00,919
Speaker 1: Well, no, Cats, I mean, there's not much to say

977
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:04,200
Speaker 1: about Cats. I think that hasn't been said obviously. It's

978
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:07,680
Speaker 1: this iconic and your performance and there's a song which

979
00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:10,160
Speaker 1: we don't need to go into now that you sing

980
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:13,359
Speaker 1: that is this kind of dream state everybody goes into

981
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:14,319
Speaker 1: when they sing this song.

982
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:16,959
Speaker 4: Good description that's accurate a dream state.

983
00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:18,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that a lot of the music and

984
00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:20,759
Speaker 1: cats is a dream state. It's really it's just you

985
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:21,640
Speaker 1: have to suspend.

986
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:25,000
Speaker 4: It's moving art. It's like an art installation.

987
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:27,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can't have any preconceptions of what, just to

988
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:29,680
Speaker 1: sit there and go with it. Yeah, And it's like

989
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:32,040
Speaker 1: it's like and when I think about that, what I

990
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:35,759
Speaker 1: think about is you work hard. Yeah, in the theater,

991
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:40,200
Speaker 1: people work hard. Did you have any ongoing injuries pains?

992
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:42,840
Speaker 1: Did you suffer physically from your years of working in

993
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:43,239
Speaker 1: the theater.

994
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:47,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, My knees were shot after two years of suns

995
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:50,520
Speaker 4: at Boulevard, running up and downstairs twelve times a night,

996
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:55,440
Speaker 4: and then repetitive choreography. I had a shoulder replacement in

997
00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:58,439
Speaker 4: my right shoulder was replaced in September, which I'm really

998
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:00,799
Speaker 4: grateful I did it. Then the the surgeon was great

999
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:03,719
Speaker 4: and that apparatus is great. I'm really grateful. I'm gonna

1000
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:06,279
Speaker 4: have to have a knee, probably both needs replaced, but

1001
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:08,719
Speaker 4: I'm gonna start with one. But you have to be

1002
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:11,879
Speaker 4: in a process either with a great osteopath or chiropractor

1003
00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:14,439
Speaker 4: or the other thing. I've found out recently that's very

1004
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:18,120
Speaker 4: disturbing to me. Is I've had because of working in

1005
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:20,680
Speaker 4: these dusty old theaters that they never keep clean and

1006
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:24,640
Speaker 4: mold in the atmosphere and stuff. I've had repetitive bouts

1007
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:29,560
Speaker 4: of bronchitis for years now and it's created a kind

1008
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 4: of asthmatic lung condition that I have to work with now,

1009
00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:35,799
Speaker 4: which is not nice.

1010
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:41,240
Speaker 1: Singer and actor Betty Buckley be sure to follow Here's

1011
00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:45,680
Speaker 1: the Thing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever

1012
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:49,320
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts when we come back. Betty Buckley

1013
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:53,200
Speaker 1: talks about the challenges of playing Norma Desmond and Andrew

1014
00:50:53,280 --> 00:51:08,600
Speaker 1: Lloyd Webber's Sunset Boulevard. I'm Alec Baldwin and this is

1015
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:12,840
Speaker 1: Here's the thing. Betty Buckley worked with famed British director

1016
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:16,759
Speaker 1: Trevor Nunn twice, first in Cats in nineteen eighty two,

1017
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:21,359
Speaker 1: then again in Sunset Boulevard in nineteen ninety four. In

1018
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:26,720
Speaker 1: the intervening years, Betty Buckley's confidence in her own vision grew.

1019
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:29,880
Speaker 4: First of all, he's a genius and the way he

1020
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:32,960
Speaker 4: directed us in Cats, and the way he put all

1021
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:38,000
Speaker 4: that together was really unbelievable. I mean, no other Cats

1022
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:43,120
Speaker 4: company had that kind of amazing bomb. We did improv workshops,

1023
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:47,319
Speaker 4: theater games and at least a month of rehearsals and

1024
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:49,680
Speaker 4: a couple of weeks on our hands and kneess cats,

1025
00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:53,160
Speaker 4: but just incredible Grotowski theater games and stuff like that.

1026
00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:55,160
Speaker 1: What does he have to offer you when you do Sunset?

1027
00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:59,280
Speaker 4: Well, it was interesting because they flew me to London

1028
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:02,799
Speaker 4: and my audition took an hour. I've never auditioned that

1029
00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:05,200
Speaker 4: long in my life. They brought me in a week

1030
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:08,080
Speaker 4: in advance and taught me all the songs and then

1031
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:10,280
Speaker 4: told me I had to sing them in Glenn closest

1032
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 4: keys and I was like, no, I won't be singing

1033
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:16,720
Speaker 4: them in Glenn closest keys, and so the music director

1034
00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:19,799
Speaker 4: was a little floxed about that, and then he kept

1035
00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 4: coming up on stage directing me and directing me. And

1036
00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:26,480
Speaker 4: I'm a meditator, so whatever they threw at me, I

1037
00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:29,920
Speaker 4: just stayed in my focus and did what they said.

1038
00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:33,319
Speaker 4: And then when I got the part, I was been

1039
00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:37,440
Speaker 4: back in London in this rehearsal process and I was like, okay.

1040
00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:42,600
Speaker 4: So I brought in mythological references the Greek drama Medusa Medea,

1041
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:45,200
Speaker 4: and he was interested in that, and then he would

1042
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:48,120
Speaker 4: listen really closely, and then he'd say, okay, show me,

1043
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:52,320
Speaker 4: and then I would show him what I meant, and gradually,

1044
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:56,480
Speaker 4: over a six week rehearsal process to eight weeks, I

1045
00:52:56,520 --> 00:53:00,319
Speaker 4: saw him liking what I was doing right, and and

1046
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:04,120
Speaker 4: then he gave me rain to interpret it that way.

1047
00:53:04,280 --> 00:53:06,399
Speaker 1: You'd earned the right to do it your way.

1048
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:10,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, And so then we opened and it was like

1049
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:13,839
Speaker 4: a huge success, and I was just like, oh, yeah,

1050
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:17,799
Speaker 4: you know. So then I got New York and they

1051
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:21,080
Speaker 4: were very nervous because the New York Times they followed

1052
00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:23,879
Speaker 4: me around to do this big feature in the Arts

1053
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:27,000
Speaker 4: and Leisure section, and it was really nice. This writer

1054
00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:30,640
Speaker 4: was really great, but the angle the editor wanted was

1055
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:34,080
Speaker 4: is she a big enough star to replace Glenn Close?

1056
00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:37,839
Speaker 4: So they were really nervous that my interpretation because it

1057
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:41,120
Speaker 4: was so vastly different from what Glenn Close had done.

1058
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:45,120
Speaker 4: It was vastly different from what any of them had done,

1059
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:49,719
Speaker 4: and so they got nervous. And he was very nervous.

1060
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:54,200
Speaker 4: Trevor None, Yeah, and I one day in rehearsal, he

1061
00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:57,239
Speaker 4: was very nervous and very upset, and I was like,

1062
00:53:57,320 --> 00:54:00,520
Speaker 4: what's going on? And so I started crying because I

1063
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:05,160
Speaker 4: couldn't understand what he wanted. And when I was crying,

1064
00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:10,040
Speaker 4: he said this, this, this is what's missing. And I

1065
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:13,719
Speaker 4: was I said what what? And he goes this and

1066
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:16,640
Speaker 4: I was like wretched because I've felt wretched. He goes

1067
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:19,920
Speaker 4: wretched and I said oh. And then I just stopped crying.

1068
00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:22,120
Speaker 4: I said, why didn't you just tell me that? Where

1069
00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:24,880
Speaker 4: do you want wretched? And so I got really calm

1070
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:27,440
Speaker 4: and he goes okay, and then we went through the

1071
00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:32,520
Speaker 4: whole script and he goes here, here, here, and here,

1072
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:35,040
Speaker 4: and I'm like, okay, I said, that's all you got

1073
00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:36,600
Speaker 4: to do. Just tell me what you need.

1074
00:54:36,719 --> 00:54:39,040
Speaker 1: Now, Betty Buckley, I want to get to something else.

1075
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:43,399
Speaker 1: The power of your voice and the uniqueness. Where does

1076
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:45,080
Speaker 1: the power come from?

1077
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:47,719
Speaker 4: Can I just share with you a moment I had

1078
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:51,560
Speaker 4: with you when we were younger. Yes, we were at

1079
00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:56,799
Speaker 4: a big public theater benefit years ago and you were

1080
00:54:56,880 --> 00:55:01,160
Speaker 4: part of it too, and I sang Aquarius and it

1081
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:06,279
Speaker 4: was a very powerful performance and you were watching me

1082
00:55:06,680 --> 00:55:09,799
Speaker 4: and you just like shook your head and I was

1083
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:13,399
Speaker 4: like so touched by that, like because I felt so

1084
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:17,480
Speaker 4: seen and cherished and valued by you. Thank you, So

1085
00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:20,840
Speaker 4: you ask where my power comes from. It comes from

1086
00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:26,000
Speaker 4: a spiritual connection. Right. It's like I believe that at essence,

1087
00:55:26,080 --> 00:55:29,080
Speaker 4: all human beings are connected. Like I have a heart

1088
00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:30,960
Speaker 4: that's beating that wants to love and be loved. You

1089
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:32,759
Speaker 4: have a heart that's beating that wants to love and

1090
00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:35,680
Speaker 4: be loved. At that essence, we are entirely the same.

1091
00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:38,799
Speaker 4: Our stories are different, but that I am no, that

1092
00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:42,560
Speaker 4: essence is the same. Since since I was like twenty

1093
00:55:42,600 --> 00:55:46,840
Speaker 4: six years old and I've been on this quest, I

1094
00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:49,760
Speaker 4: thought there has to be a handbook. And I found

1095
00:55:49,840 --> 00:55:54,080
Speaker 4: that there's like this core body of truth in every religion,

1096
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:59,160
Speaker 4: in every major philosophy on the planet. So I found meditation.

1097
00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:02,760
Speaker 4: While as Enough, I went my ex husband Peter Flood,

1098
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:06,840
Speaker 4: took me to a meditation class after my first season

1099
00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:09,880
Speaker 4: on Eight Is Enough, And then I learned that I

1100
00:56:09,880 --> 00:56:13,200
Speaker 4: could use meditation in my work, and that there was

1101
00:56:13,239 --> 00:56:16,680
Speaker 4: this higher consciousness in me that was the creative force

1102
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:20,640
Speaker 4: that if I made myself an instrument of that, good

1103
00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:24,319
Speaker 4: things happened. And I was a witness about that as

1104
00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:27,640
Speaker 4: surely as the audience was. And I learned how to

1105
00:56:27,719 --> 00:56:31,799
Speaker 4: do that before cats and before tender mercies and then

1106
00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:35,239
Speaker 4: my work just changed and everything opened up and the

1107
00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:39,719
Speaker 4: power that I was able to access as an instrument

1108
00:56:39,719 --> 00:56:43,759
Speaker 4: of that consciousness, that's where it comes from. Is I'm

1109
00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:46,799
Speaker 4: meditating my way through that, and it's like being in

1110
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:50,719
Speaker 4: a way on mister Toad's wild ride, right, Because when

1111
00:56:50,719 --> 00:56:54,319
Speaker 4: you have a part like Norman Desmond that you can

1112
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:57,280
Speaker 4: go all out, full tilt boogie to quote Janis Joblin,

1113
00:56:57,760 --> 00:57:01,319
Speaker 4: then this it's like holding to this montra, holding to

1114
00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:06,040
Speaker 4: this focus point and then let everything happen. That's how

1115
00:57:06,080 --> 00:57:06,479
Speaker 4: I work.

1116
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:09,520
Speaker 1: You are on an island of your own in terms

1117
00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:12,320
Speaker 1: of your talent and your uniqueness. It's just it's unbelievable.

1118
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:15,759
Speaker 4: It's Unbelievaikia Alec, I feel humbled by your compliment. Thank you.

1119
00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:18,600
Speaker 1: Well. Listen, we interviewed Ken, my old friend Ken, and

1120
00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:20,240
Speaker 1: the thing the two of you also have in common

1121
00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:22,840
Speaker 1: other than cats is you both went home. Ken moved

1122
00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:25,240
Speaker 1: back to Saint Louis. Yeah, he moved back to take

1123
00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:25,880
Speaker 1: care of his mom.

1124
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:29,000
Speaker 4: Isten't he the greatest guy ever. He and I had

1125
00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:31,400
Speaker 4: a dressing room right next to each other at the

1126
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:35,520
Speaker 4: Winter Garden, so we were really close pals. He's a lovely,

1127
00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:36,280
Speaker 4: lovely man.

1128
00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:38,680
Speaker 1: Well, let me ask you this one more question, which is,

1129
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:41,920
Speaker 1: if I'm on iTunes, which of these albums would you

1130
00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:44,960
Speaker 1: say is not your favorite? Which ones you're particularly fond of?

1131
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:49,720
Speaker 4: Ghostlight, the two bone Burnett produced is a beautiful album

1132
00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:52,280
Speaker 4: that's very haunting. And Teabon and I grew up together

1133
00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:54,680
Speaker 4: in fourth and he made the first recording of my

1134
00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:58,160
Speaker 4: voice when we were both like seventeen. But so ghost Light,

1135
00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:00,520
Speaker 4: and then my recent stuff that I really love is

1136
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:03,400
Speaker 4: Story Songs and Hope.

1137
00:58:04,080 --> 00:58:05,920
Speaker 1: Thank you for taking the time to do this. My

1138
00:58:06,040 --> 00:58:09,000
Speaker 1: love to you, Ali, thank you, and good luck down there.

1139
00:58:09,040 --> 00:58:11,440
Speaker 4: I adore you and I'm so happy to connect with you.

1140
00:58:11,520 --> 00:58:15,760
Speaker 1: Thank you, My thanks to Broadway legends Betty Buckley and

1141
00:58:15,880 --> 00:58:19,400
Speaker 1: Ken Page. I'll leave you with Betty singing as if

1142
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:24,320
Speaker 1: we never said goodbye from Sunset Boulevard Live at Carnegie Hall.

1143
00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:28,080
Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin and this is Here's the thing from

1144
00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:29,760
Speaker 1: iHeart Radio.

1145
00:58:30,520 --> 00:58:36,000
Speaker 4: The Whispered Conversations.

1146
00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:37,680
Speaker 2: In Old the clouded Halloway.

1147
00:58:40,560 --> 00:58:46,120
Speaker 4: So much to say, not just today, bottle.

1148
00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:58,240
Speaker 2: Well, madness, Well, body.

1149
00:59:00,200 --> 00:59:07,600
Speaker 1: May guess everything says if we never said about.

1150
00:59:11,720 --> 00:59:22,280
Speaker 2: Yes, everythings, as if we never said good.

1151
00:59:27,800 --> 00:59:31,760
Speaker 4: We taught the world

1152
00:59:33,480 --> 01:00:01,280
Speaker 2: You waste to dream,