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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Day It Happened Here, a podcast increasingly well

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Speaker 2: named as as the Days go On. I'm your host,

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Speaker 2: Bio Wong, and it occurs to me over the course

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Speaker 2: of the many, many, many, many many union episodes we've

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Speaker 2: done in this podcast, we haven't really done much coverage

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Speaker 2: of just straight up how do you do a strike?

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Speaker 2: So today we are going to be covering a pretty

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Speaker 2: long running strike. We're gonna say how many days has

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Speaker 2: been going. It's unclear when this episode is gonna come out,

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Speaker 2: so who fucking knows how long it'll be when when

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Speaker 2: you hear it. But yeah, with me to talk about

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Speaker 2: this strike is Spencer Jordan, who is a rank and

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Speaker 2: file member of the Urban or Workers Union. Spencer, welcome

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Speaker 2: to the show.

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Speaker 3: Hey, thank you so much for having me Miah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm excited to talk to you about this. So

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Speaker 2: this is what day is today. I should know this

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Speaker 2: April fifteenth, and as of April fifteenth, you've been outright

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Speaker 2: for twenty five days.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's just about right. Yeah, it started on the

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Speaker 4: twenty second of March. We held our strike vote like

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Speaker 4: a solid twelve days before.

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Speaker 3: Before we actually went out on the picket line.

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Speaker 4: And one that strike vote with fourteen yes is a

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Speaker 4: single no, and I think four extensions pretty good.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so ninety of those voting voted yes. Yeah, which

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Speaker 4: good of good ratios. Good ratios.

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Speaker 2: I think like typically you want at least like mid

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Speaker 2: seventies if we're going to do this kind of thing.

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Speaker 2: But you know, as listener to the show hopefully understand

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Speaker 2: by now you can't just like call a strike and

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Speaker 2: have it happen. You know, you have to do a

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Speaker 2: whole bunch of organizing. So I want to kind of

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Speaker 2: start at the dynamics of the organizing of how this

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Speaker 2: shop got going, because this is a pretty small shop

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Speaker 2: from the sounds of it. And yeah, yeah, so do

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Speaker 2: you want to talk a bit about what the basic

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Speaker 2: process of getting this organizing started was like and what

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Speaker 2: the sort of like social mapping look like and stuff

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Speaker 2: like that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So the organization process started around like a year

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Speaker 4: and a half before we actually had our unionization vote,

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Speaker 4: which was actually we had the vote in March and

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Speaker 4: we got our win on April seventh, two years ago,

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Speaker 4: so we actually just had our union two year birthday birthday.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, so preceding that was, like, like I said,

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Speaker 4: about a year and a half organizing that involved, you know,

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Speaker 4: the typical thing of like one on one conversations with

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Speaker 4: like all the staff, making the you know, color coded

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Speaker 4: spreadsheet and everything, which all of this was not my

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Speaker 4: my purview. I'm a lot more involved now than I

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Speaker 4: was at the start of the process. And I was

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Speaker 4: approached by like one of our lead organizers really shortly

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Speaker 4: after being hired just to kind of you know, read

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Speaker 4: the dipstick as too, like my sentiments about it and whatnot.

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Speaker 4: I was pretty on board right away. I mean, you know, like,

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Speaker 4: I'm from the Bay Area, so it's not.

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Speaker 2: There are there are only two types of people from

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Speaker 2: the Bay Area. You wouldn't be having one of the one.

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Speaker 3: Of the ship, Yeah, exactly, exactly. So I'm of the

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Speaker 3: ladder type.

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Speaker 4: So you know, it being pro union is isn't a

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Speaker 4: isn't like a foreign thing to my background. You know,

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Speaker 4: you don't look like a techwork Yeah, yeah, especially like

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Speaker 4: my family's from the Midwest and everything, so there's yeah.

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Speaker 3: My my aunt actually just learned that she was like

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Speaker 3: a clerk working.

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Speaker 4: For the railroads back in the day when my railroad

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Speaker 4: jobs were still like a big thing.

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Speaker 3: You could have anyways.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, so I had had my like own sort

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Speaker 4: of like just observations of like whoah, like what's what's

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Speaker 4: going on in the workplace aside from like my own

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Speaker 4: just like prediliction to thinking, you know, more.

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Speaker 3: Worker power is better.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, also kind of seeing like some of the factors

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Speaker 4: that precipitated it, Like, for instance, like when I was

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Speaker 4: hired here, I was hired in my interview, it was

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Speaker 4: the one of the owners and the manager of my department,

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Speaker 4: my department being salvage and recycling department of the urban

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Speaker 4: or which is kind of like not super public facing.

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Speaker 4: We like go to the dump and like root around

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Speaker 4: through the garbage, like you know, is or whatever, get

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Speaker 4: to get stuff for the store. But that manager, you know,

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Speaker 4: he was there in the interview, and we got to

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Speaker 4: the portion where the owner explained what at will employment is,

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Speaker 4: oh and she and she went, so we're at will here.

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Speaker 4: So Sam, well, Sam was my manager. Swell, how long

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Speaker 4: have you been here? Twenty one years? He's there, hands

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Speaker 4: folded on the table. Yes, what at will means is, uh,

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Speaker 4: it could be tomorrow. I could say, you know, Samuel,

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Speaker 4: it's been a great twenty one years.

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Speaker 3: I really appreciate all the work you've done. Today's your

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Speaker 3: last day. And he has to sit there and go.

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Speaker 2: Jesus Christ.

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Speaker 4: And then she says, of course, likewise, tomorrow Samuel could

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Speaker 4: come to me and say, hey, Mary Lou, it's been

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Speaker 4: twenty one years, I've enjoyed it.

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Speaker 3: I'm quitting.

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Speaker 4: So you know, the sort of sword over his neck

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Speaker 4: is being cast is somehow equal to him not being

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Speaker 4: like indentured.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it's also just I mean, like you know, yeah,

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Speaker 2: on the basic level. Yeah, it's like, Okay, your opponent,

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Speaker 2: I guess they argue, put it your boss. Your boss

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Speaker 2: can just instantly fire you for any reason whatsoever, for

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Speaker 2: any bout of time. And then also you could quit

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Speaker 2: the job. And then I really just as a plane,

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Speaker 2: just like as a management tactic, like are you like

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Speaker 2: trying to piss off your support? And it's like, what,

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Speaker 2: I have never had a boss like just do that

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Speaker 2: in a hiring meeting.

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Speaker 4: What, Yeah, I mean have you have you worked at

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Speaker 4: like a like a like I saw a small like

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Speaker 4: mom and pop quote unquote business.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's that's probably That's probably why because

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Speaker 2: I've usually had like larger my shitty jobs have either

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Speaker 2: been like government jobs or like like larger companies, so

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Speaker 2: there was less of the like I heard a line

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Speaker 2: recently that I wish I remember where it was from.

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Speaker 2: It might be a line from Star Trek. It's like

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Speaker 2: one of the Ferengi rules is just like treat your

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Speaker 2: employees like family, exploit them ruthlessly, which I like, you.

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Speaker 4: Know, that's a that's a traditional line in business, especially

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Speaker 4: in small business, and it's it's no stranger here. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: that question of like wanting to piss off your supports

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Speaker 4: or whatever, it's a I don't know if pissing off

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Speaker 4: is necessarily like the concern, but the ownership here definitely.

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Speaker 4: I've gotten the impression that they enjoy showing their power,

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Speaker 4: and I've gotten the impression that the sort of like

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Speaker 4: uncertainty and like my mom would call it jockeying for

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Speaker 4: position that you have to do is a dynamic that

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Speaker 4: they I can't say, I really can't say they honestly

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Speaker 4: because the other owner, he hasn't been very active in

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Speaker 4: the business since since my hiring, but at least Mary

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Speaker 4: Lou Yeah, tends to lean on.

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Speaker 3: That's kind of like the uh, the special quality that.

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Speaker 4: You get with like a small business and organizing in

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Speaker 4: a small workplace is that like you know, you can

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Speaker 4: see sort of in their public communications the way.

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Speaker 3: That like the Zucks and the Bezoses and.

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Speaker 4: The rest of them feel about their employees, and you know,

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Speaker 4: you can get a sense of perhaps how they might

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Speaker 4: act towards their employees if they like interacted with them

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Speaker 4: on a daily basis. But in a small business setting,

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Speaker 4: you really get a keen.

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Speaker 3: View into how like.

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Speaker 4: The power of the employer mixes very readily with a

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Speaker 4: person's like predilection towards discipline, pred election towards like personal

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Speaker 4: what did you call it personal battling?

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Speaker 2: Almost yeah, well, and it's and it's also like it's

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Speaker 2: inescapable in a way that it isn't with like you know,

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Speaker 2: if you're dealing with people who are you know, you're

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Speaker 2: at a larger company, you're not dealing with the person.

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Speaker 2: Like there's an old Chinese expression that is like heaven

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Speaker 2: is high and the emperor is far away. So you know,

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Speaker 2: it's like you know, like a lot of times you're

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Speaker 2: dealing with Okay, yeah, there is like you know, your

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Speaker 2: Zuckerberg is there, but he's like he never interacts with you.

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Speaker 2: But with this it's like no, like the small business

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Speaker 2: tyrant is right there in your face all the time,

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Speaker 2: and all of the weird petty shit that they want

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Speaker 2: to do, and all of this sort of like you know,

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Speaker 2: and I would say, this isn't just just like a

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Speaker 2: unique thing of like small business owners. Like people in

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Speaker 2: all positions, like in all portions of of like the

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Speaker 2: class society have in them kind of like the capacity

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Speaker 2: for cruelty. And there's just people like that, but they

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Speaker 2: don't normally have the ability to just do it to

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Speaker 2: you directly in your face. And that's yeah, and that's

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Speaker 2: like that's you know, this is what you've been talking about,

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Speaker 2: is like, yeah, you have like these small business tyrants

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Speaker 2: like every Suddenly in the same way that's like I

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Speaker 2: don't know, you're dealing with like like one of the

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Speaker 2: random King Louis and you're like in the court and

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Speaker 2: suddenly just like the fact that this guy doesn't like

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Speaker 2: people going to the bathroom means that everyone around him

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Speaker 2: doesn't get it, doesn't get she doesn't get a shit, right,

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Speaker 2: Like it's just like, yeah, it's weird.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, no exactly.

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Speaker 4: It's like it's actually an argument that she's deployed in

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Speaker 4: her Reddit correspondence, which has been simmingly a pretty active

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Speaker 4: of part of her spare.

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Speaker 3: Time that she's not spending at the bargaining table with us.

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Speaker 4: You know, made this comparison of like, this isn't a

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Speaker 4: question about.

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Speaker 3: Oligarchs or whatever.

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Speaker 4: And it's true, like the small businessman is not an oligarch,

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Speaker 4: but the small business is a microcosm of like the

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Speaker 4: larger capitalist social order. And while the small business man

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Speaker 4: might not have the scope of power of the oligarch,

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Speaker 4: or like the actual capital resources of an oligarch, the

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Speaker 4: behavior certainly rhymes yea yeah.

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Speaker 2: And again it's like it's a lot of it is about.

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Speaker 2: It's just how much power you have access to, right, Like,

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Speaker 2: lots of people can be like this, but only the few,

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Speaker 2: the proud of the small business type get to do it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, totally.

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Speaker 4: And you know, ultimately the employer or wherever they are,

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Speaker 4: they're in this privileged position of being a to Yeah.

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Speaker 4: You spend most people more than like a third of

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Speaker 4: your life at work. Yeah, the employer has this unique

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Speaker 4: power to dictate what that third of your life looks like.

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Speaker 4: You know, yeah, we talk about I mean, shit, we don't.

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Speaker 4: People are not so much talking about democracy writ large

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Speaker 4: in the US in the same way now that they

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Speaker 4: used to. But you know, you talk about this idea

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Speaker 4: of like living in a democracy, but democracy ends at

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Speaker 4: the shop door.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, And like the kind of power that these

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Speaker 2: people have is something that like these people get to

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Speaker 2: control when you can go to the bathroom, like what

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Speaker 2: clothes you where, like literally what you can do, what

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Speaker 2: you can say at any given time. If you employed

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Speaker 2: the exact level of control that your boss has over

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Speaker 2: you on a state, it would be a totalitarian state.

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Speaker 2: And yet everyone seems to think that this is sort

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Speaker 2: of like you know, and this is an nugument I've

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Speaker 2: been making about like Trump is that like yeah, this

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Speaker 2: is this is this is what sort of Trump and

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Speaker 2: Elon and like that whole Caudra and and you know,

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Speaker 2: and Beck if you want to go into the sort

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Speaker 2: of idealogues behind it too. This is what people like

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Speaker 2: Peter Thiel want when when they say run the government

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Speaker 2: like a business, what they mean is that they want

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Speaker 2: to like to import the sort of like just the

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Speaker 2: pure tyranny of the workplace and expand it into the

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Speaker 2: entire political system so that they're they're like sort of

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Speaker 2: just pure like totalitarian corporate rule can't be challenged.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I mean, wasn't it Miscellani who coined the

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Speaker 4: term the corporate state?

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Speaker 2: Probably, although it would not surprise me if it was

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Speaker 2: like some other fascist theorists and Wessolini just started saying

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Speaker 2: it because yeah, but yeah, like that's you know, that's

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Speaker 2: a substantive thing here. And what this also means is

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Speaker 2: that like, even in ways that are sort of hard

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Speaker 2: to see, like a fight over democracy in the workplace, right,

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Speaker 2: is a is a part of the larger struggle against

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Speaker 2: all of all the things that's happening. Because if you know,

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Speaker 2: if we're going to survive this, and if we're going

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Speaker 2: to make sure that we don't all live in a

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Speaker 2: world where you like, if you say the wrong thing,

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Speaker 2: you can be sent to a prison camp. Democracy, if

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Speaker 2: you want this to survive, is going to have to

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Speaker 2: march into like into the layer of the beast. It

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Speaker 2: is going to have to go into the source of

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Speaker 2: this tyranny itself, which is the workplace, and it's going

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Speaker 2: to have to crush it there.

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Speaker 3: Mm hmm.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I mean you said it very very aptly there,

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Speaker 4: Like the corporate structure maras the totalitarian structure. And you know,

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Speaker 4: not only does like fighting the corporate structure at the

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Speaker 4: level of labor makes sense in that right, labor is

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Speaker 4: what enables the flow of capital that sustains the totalitarian state.

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Speaker 4: But also, like you said, you're you're you're addressing the

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Speaker 4: structure in its I don't know, I almost think of

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Speaker 4: it as like the you know, like Grendel's mother in

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Speaker 4: the then or whatever, and like, like, you know, the

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Speaker 4: the authoritarian thing is like it's like Grendel maybe, and

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Speaker 4: like Grendel's mother is like this capitalist, hierarchical structure. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: you know, you take it on with an insistence on

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Speaker 4: workplace democracy as kind of libby as that's that sounds.

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Speaker 2: Okay, speaking speaking speaking of capitalist will tellitariotism. Here are

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Speaker 2: the ads that we are required to run by our.

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Speaker 3: Let's hear them, and we are back.

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Speaker 2: So let's get back a little bit towards the more

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Speaker 2: concrete parts of the union, though, I do you have

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Speaker 2: more to say eventually at some point about the way

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Speaker 2: that sort of labor liberalism co opted democracy in the

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Speaker 2: workplace from like you know, the idea the old sort

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Speaker 2: of like anarchist idea of workers control right. But Okay,

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Speaker 2: So one thing I wanted to talk about before we

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Speaker 2: sort of get into the more formal stuff about about

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Speaker 2: the strike is I was I'm really interested to hear

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Speaker 2: you talk about what the process of kind of onboarding

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Speaker 2: you to get more involved in the union is, because

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Speaker 2: this is something that like, Okay, every functional union wants

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Speaker 2: to do this, Like if your union is not trying

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Speaker 2: to bring people like its members like more to get

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Speaker 2: more involved in the union and become more of the

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Speaker 2: people becoming like core organizers and becoming you know, like

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Speaker 2: they're the people who are doing your bargaining people are

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Speaker 2: doing anything like your union is, there's weird shit about it,

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Speaker 2: and you should probably like be looking into that, but

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Speaker 2: it's pretty hard. So yeah, can can you talk a

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Speaker 2: bit about the process of like how you were brought

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Speaker 2: in and what sort of worked and what didn't.

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Speaker 3: Well.

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Speaker 4: I think ultimately, like the easiest thing is a sort

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Speaker 4: of ramping up degree of like responsibility within the organization. Right, So,

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Speaker 4: like at the start.

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Speaker 3: I would come to some of the meetings, I would

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Speaker 3: miss some of them.

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Speaker 4: I would be like, Oh, I'm fucking so busy with

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Speaker 4: whatever is going on in my life, and you know,

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Speaker 4: I was supportive and sort of involved, but you know,

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Speaker 4: I wasn't like, I mean, I stain wasn't doing things

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Speaker 4: like this. And you know, eventually one we like kind

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Speaker 4: of persisted as a union over a longer period of time,

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Speaker 4: the necessity of involvement became more like obvious to me, right,

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Speaker 4: And that's that's a hard ask, you know, Like you're organizing,

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Speaker 4: you want momentum and you want yeah, you want to

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Speaker 4: be able to change your conditions for the better as

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Speaker 4: soon as possible.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And with.

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Speaker 4: URBANIR, you know, lots of workplaces that need unionization have

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Speaker 4: high turnover, right, and urbanor is no different. And so

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Speaker 4: I saw, you know, like some of the more committed

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Speaker 4: elements of the bargaining unit.

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Speaker 3: Be fired or quit or whatever.

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Speaker 4: And you know they'd be replaced with other people and

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Speaker 4: you have to begin to work organizing over again. And

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Speaker 4: with some of them you succeed with something that you don't,

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Speaker 4: you know, you have different dynamics. I feel like the

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Speaker 4: hiring procedures may have changed a little bit afteryone our election,

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Speaker 4: but you know, I can't say that for certain. So

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Speaker 4: the sort of like necessity of like keeping that like

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Speaker 4: flame going, especially after we had won the election, we

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Speaker 4: were in contract bargain for a long period of time.

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Speaker 4: Made me feel like a sort of sense of like

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Speaker 4: I need to be more active in this because like

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Speaker 4: this is an important struggle, and like I see our

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Speaker 4: like main organizers taking on like a fuckload of work

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Speaker 4: and like needing more voices at the table, needing more

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Speaker 4: more uh, needing more people to be more involved. And

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Speaker 4: so like I, you know, volunteered to run for treasure.

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Speaker 3: That was the only candidate. Yeah, but theoretically I could

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Speaker 3: have been voted down.

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Speaker 4: They could have been like I don't know about thatszer,

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Speaker 4: and you know, like ended up having like a little

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Speaker 4: bit more direct responsibilities, Like I was like receiving some

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Speaker 4: of the donations to our strike fund once we started

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Speaker 4: fund raising for the strike, and to keep track of

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Speaker 4: those and you know, put the special bank account and

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Speaker 4: then eventually take that money, get it to like the

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Speaker 4: the IWW branch, uh hand it hand a big check

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Speaker 4: to Dino, that kind of stuff, and just like having

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Speaker 4: like little things to be doing, like yeah, spurs involved

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Speaker 4: other people, you know, became responsible for like parts of

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Speaker 4: social media outreach, make graphics stuff like that, and also

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Speaker 4: like sort of I guess, giving people the opportunity to

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Speaker 4: leverage their individual connections within the work because every workplace

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Speaker 4: is like clicks and groups and subgroups and all that,

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Speaker 4: to leverage those connections in like service of bettering everyone's conditions.

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Speaker 4: So like to a certain degree, I've I've been like

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Speaker 4: important as like an envoid to my particular department because

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Speaker 4: it's our job takes us away from the job site

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Speaker 4: or like from like the main the main work site

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Speaker 4: often and stuff like that, so there's less of a

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Speaker 4: direct avenue for communication there. So I can say that's

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Speaker 4: my experience. Yeah, as far as organizing goes, like, I'm easy.

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Speaker 4: You know, I was already I was already believing in it,

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Speaker 4: and like there are others that it have that it's

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Speaker 4: been harder. I will say though, that the strike itself

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Speaker 4: is I mean, a strike is a conflict, and when

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Speaker 4: you're in conflict together, it's an extremely cohering force. Which

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Speaker 4: isn't to say that like necessarily you want your unionization

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Speaker 4: to come to a strike, but perhaps like raising a

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Speaker 4: sort of consciousness of like the fact that like you

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Speaker 4: are ultimately like in conflict with the boss. The boss

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Speaker 4: doesn't want you to unionize. The boss doesn't want you

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Speaker 4: to force concessions out of them, and that like, as

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Speaker 4: a union, we are taking on this like responsibility to

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Speaker 4: look after each other's interests and to support each other

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Speaker 4: like tangibly in terms like what we do, and also

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Speaker 4: intangibly in terms of like the kind of conversations we

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Speaker 4: have around like morale planning and stuff like that, you know,

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Speaker 4: to succeed together. I think those are like really potent

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Speaker 4: cohering forces. And you know, it helps to have a

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Speaker 4: good a good opponent. You know, the boss is the

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Speaker 4: best organizer. And at urban or it's you don't go

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Speaker 4: along without coming head to head with like the with

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Speaker 4: with conflict with ownership or with like ownership through the

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Speaker 4: mediator of management. Like although like support for the union

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Speaker 4: might be divided a bit at the workplace, one thing

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Speaker 4: that's pretty universal is like a frustration with ownership.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so okay, speaking of speaking of a frustration with ownership,

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Speaker 2: it is time for us to go to ads one

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Speaker 2: last time.

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Speaker 3: That beautiful but then ever.

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Speaker 2: Come back, strike strike, strike.

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Speaker 3: Strike, strikes, strike.

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Speaker 5: Just after this message, okay, we are back from a

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Speaker 5: bunch of people who almost assuredly do not want you

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Speaker 5: to go on strike.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, so let's let's let's let's get into the

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Speaker 2: process of how you actually organize a strike. Yeah, let's

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Speaker 2: start from just like the very beginning, one of the

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Speaker 2: kinds of things that were happening that you know, made

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Speaker 2: people think that you needed to do this in the

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Speaker 2: first place.

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Speaker 4: So the strike itself is a result specifically, like, this

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Speaker 4: is a ULP strike, So it's in response to something

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Speaker 4: that falls under the category of unfairly or practice according

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Speaker 4: to the National Labor Relations Act, And it's you know,

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Speaker 4: backed up by charges filed with the board, as opposed

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Speaker 4: to like what's called an economic strike, which is a

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Speaker 4: strike that is specifically about economic issues at the workplace.

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Speaker 4: So the specific ULP that's being cited for our strike

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Speaker 4: is bad faith bargaining. And for us, what that's looked

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Speaker 4: like is two years of completely stalled negotiations where we

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Speaker 4: are basically being faced with a take it or leave

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Speaker 4: it offer of the status quo in the vast majority

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Speaker 4: of our proposals. Bargaining is very, very slow, and ownership

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Speaker 4: has held tightly to the to the offense at us

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Speaker 4: having unionized it all, which to my understanding is pretty

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Speaker 4: typical of small workplaces. Ownership takes it very personally, and

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Speaker 4: that personal feeling of the trail or whatever becomes like

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Speaker 4: a stumbling block in the negotiation process. I know that

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Speaker 4: was the case with mos Another's bookshop in Berkeley that

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Speaker 4: also unionized with the AWW. So, you know, we've had

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Speaker 4: our whole proposal on ownership's table for a.

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Speaker 3: Year and a half now.

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Speaker 4: We had started with a bargaining proposal by proposal. They said, well,

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Speaker 4: how can we possibly agree to any of this without

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Speaker 4: understanding the full context, especially the economic context, And so

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Speaker 4: we gave them a full proposal and they said, oh

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Speaker 4: my god, how do you expect us to read all

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Speaker 4: of this in time to bargain? This is way too much.

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Speaker 4: How we're going to.

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Speaker 3: Evaluate this all? We got to do a proposal by proposal.

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Speaker 4: So it's been really unclear to us if ownership has

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Speaker 4: even actually like read the entirety of our collective bargaining

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Speaker 4: agreement that we put on their desk. I know that

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Speaker 4: in the past the lawyers have the lawyers have said

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Speaker 4: things like, oh, my, my eyes glazed over when I

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Speaker 4: read your email, so I missed such and such part

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Speaker 4: of it.

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Speaker 2: It's literally your job contract. You have one job.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you would think like a lawyer would have like

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Speaker 4: a little bit more like Jesus beyond like a tweet

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Speaker 4: tweet sized reading capacity.

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Speaker 2: But well they give any one law degrees.

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00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:06,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, or like ownership saying like well, I just thought

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Speaker 4: it was so ridiculous. I didn't feel they need to

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Speaker 4: read all of it stuff like that. Oh my god,

439
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:13,880
Speaker 4: does these readers bad faith bargaining?

440
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's bad by like the standards of like normal,

441
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 2: it takes two years to do a fucking contract because

442
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 2: they're just not doing shit, and like, good lord, usually.

443
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:29,440
Speaker 4: In those long contract negotiations, by two years at least

444
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:31,200
Speaker 4: there's like been some progress.

445
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well that they've read the proposals, Like yes, okay,

446
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 2: will will will your boss show up to your meeting

447
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 2: an hour and a half late because they didn't bother

448
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:42,440
Speaker 2: to look through the proposals until literally right at the

449
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:44,360
Speaker 2: time the meeting was going to start. Yes, but will

450
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:45,200
Speaker 2: they have done it?

451
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:49,119
Speaker 3: Usually yes, mm hmm yeah.

452
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 4: And in fact, in the sort of company propaganda where

453
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 4: they're claiming that this like bad faith bargaining charge has

454
00:25:56,560 --> 00:26:00,439
Speaker 4: no grounds, they're like ownership has come to like twenty

455
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 4: five to thirty bargaining sessions neglecting to mention they're been

456
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 4: somewhere in the range of like fifty to sixty.

457
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:12,399
Speaker 3: And of course half maybe they've shown up to more

458
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 3: than half. I don't want to be.

459
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:17,480
Speaker 2: Libelous, but yeah, but still, like it's at the point

460
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 2: of which you are failing to show up for any

461
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 2: bargaining session, I think you can like, look, I have

462
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 2: always advocated that if that advantagement doesn't show up to

463
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:27,200
Speaker 2: a bargaining session, you should just be allowed to take

464
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:29,480
Speaker 2: the company, because clearly they're not serious about it.

465
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 4: But hey, you know, they've been talking about a worker

466
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 4: cup for twenty years.

467
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 2: Not performost reforms.

468
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 3: But yeah, so those kind of things.

469
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 4: And then like finally, like one of the bigger precipitating

470
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:48,400
Speaker 4: factors is, like we've been trying to bargain over economics,

471
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 4: ownership has implied a lot of times that they cannot

472
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 4: afford to pay what we're asking. They say it'll ruin

473
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 4: the company, they say a company will go bankrupt, or

474
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 4: they say it's unsustained, they say this and that, and

475
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 4: then when they get to the table they say, we

476
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,360
Speaker 4: have never and we'll never argue inability to pay. Because

477
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,120
Speaker 4: the thing is is that to say inability to pay right,

478
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 4: it obligates you to furnish information to prove that, and they,

479
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 4: for whatever reason do not want.

480
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 3: Wow, I wonder why British financial information.

481
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,440
Speaker 4: So these have been some of the sticking points, and

482
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 4: that's why we've been out on the picky line for

483
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 4: about three weeks now, still waiting for them to come

484
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 4: to the table.

485
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 3: God damn it.

486
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:34,200
Speaker 2: So okay, let's let's talk about like the just sort

487
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 2: of the process of like how the discussions went for

488
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 2: doing this, What did those sort of look like, and

489
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 2: how did how did you sort of you know, just

490
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 2: like plant plan this thing out?

491
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:45,439
Speaker 4: Well, I guess the process towards like deciding that I

492
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 4: needed to come to a strike was like you know

493
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 4: that that is a sort of thing that builds over

494
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 4: a long period of time. You know, you see the

495
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,680
Speaker 4: ownership doing bad faith pargning. You go, what more conciliatory

496
00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:59,879
Speaker 4: approaches can we take first? You know, can we try this,

497
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 4: Can we try offering this to make you know, can

498
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 4: we try this display of good faith? Can we offer

499
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 4: this compromise? One of the things that was a big

500
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 4: part was of some of the not exactly contract related discussions,

501
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:17,880
Speaker 4: but like has been talking for a long time about

502
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,239
Speaker 4: a co op transition that it's never happened. It's been

503
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 4: twenty years, and you know, now that we've unionized, they're

504
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 4: like our people who we were talking to about doing

505
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:29,159
Speaker 4: the co op thing. They don't work with unions and

506
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:30,440
Speaker 4: so the only way that they were going to be

507
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:32,439
Speaker 4: a co op is if the union goes away. And

508
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,399
Speaker 4: so in response to that, we said, well, we're totally

509
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 4: opened to a transition to a co op that involves

510
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 4: the union, and here is such and such organization.

511
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 3: It was our lead negotiator who actually provide the information.

512
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 4: Some er the name of the organization, but you know,

513
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 4: here's such and such organization that actually specifically deals with

514
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 4: union co op workplace transitions. Was not received with interest.

515
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 4: So it's like massive catalogue of bad faith bargaining and

516
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 4: you end up in your strategy discussions with the whole

517
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 4: unit testing the wires of like when is too much?

518
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 4: What's our red line that we need to take more

519
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 4: direct action? And what that began with for us was first, well,

520
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 4: if we're going to have if we're gonna have a strike,

521
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 4: we need funds for it. The IWW is an organization

522
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 4: that affords its unions a lot of freedom and a

523
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 4: lot of mutual support and solidarity. Is not an organization

524
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 4: with a huge amount of money. And so we did

525
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 4: start with trying to get like a sense of like

526
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 4: what we could get from, you know, the branches reserve,

527
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 4: and we moved on from that to how we were

528
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 4: going to fundraise and stuff like that. So we held

529
00:29:55,400 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 4: informational pickets that had donations, we sold sure posters, stuff

530
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 4: like that. We held like a big strike fundraiser, I

531
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 4: think something around like a month in advance of our

532
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 4: or it was maybe like a month and a half

533
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 4: in advance of our of our strike. We also gave

534
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 4: management like a courtesy notice about this so they could

535
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 4: pass it on to ownership, saying, hey, we've started fundraising

536
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 4: for a strike in the hopes that like being aware

537
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 4: that we're taking active preparations to go on strike would

538
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 4: facilitate bargaining.

539
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 2: Sometimes it works, I've seen I've seen it before. I've

540
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 2: seen it before.

541
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 4: Sometimes it works, yeah, and sometimes you know, sometimes you

542
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 4: end up on a podcast talking about how.

543
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 3: It didn't know.

544
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 2: You never know until you try it.

545
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, you never know. But we did.

546
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, we did give them that sort of early warning

547
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 4: and our readiness to strike kind of like depended then

548
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 4: on like where we were at in the fundraisings. So

549
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 4: we continue to sort of listening donations, reaching out to

550
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 4: various organizations in the area that are, you know, pro labor.

551
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 4: You know, we talked to like DSA whenever because you know,

552
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 4: they have their like a workplace organizing committee, yeah you walk, yeah,

553
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 4: and various other you know, yeah organizations that are pro labor.

554
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 4: And once we got to a point where you felt

555
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:32,560
Speaker 4: like we were reasonably like prepared to sustain, they open

556
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 4: end to strike because that's what we're doing. This is

557
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 4: a strike with no set end date. Then we announced

558
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 4: our intention to hold a strike vote. We held our

559
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 4: strike vote. Strike vote passes. The ownership was made aware

560
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:48,719
Speaker 4: at the Barney session before the strike vote, so it

561
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 4: was like the Monday before the strike vote, which is

562
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:53,960
Speaker 4: on I think like a Saturday. So in total, it

563
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 4: was like around maybe like two weeks in change that

564
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:02,959
Speaker 4: they knew like death it possibility past the strike vote.

565
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 4: Twelve days later, the strike begins with unfortunately no bargaining

566
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 4: in between.

567
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 3: Good lord, yeah, the whole way. You hope that they'll

568
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 3: come to the table. You hope that they.

569
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 2: Will come to their senses.

570
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, take it, take the risks seriously, take the risk seriously,

571
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 4: and unfortunately this is not what's happened here. Yeah, and

572
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 4: I think part of that is maybe an age thing here.

573
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 4: Ownership is is in their eighties, and they've pretty consistently

574
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 4: held the view that, like the union is like a

575
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 4: bunch of young people who don't know what the hell

576
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 4: they're talking about, you know, even though like the age

577
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 4: range of our union spans the age range of the workplace.

578
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 3: We've got people in their.

579
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 4: Fifties and forties and thirties and twenties, you know, which

580
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 4: is a which is of course the problematic group. But yeah,

581
00:32:55,200 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 4: the young radicals. Yeah, so there's there's bad this sort

582
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 4: of patronizing attitude that I think has resulted in like

583
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 4: a real strategic failure on their part to seriously prepare

584
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 4: for the strike.

585
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 3: Or you know, bargain to avoid it. Yeah.

586
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 2: One more fundraising things that I just I just want

587
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 2: to mention this for people if if you're trying to

588
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 2: fundraise for your own thing. Something that's actually we've had

589
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 2: a lot of success with up in Portland is getting

590
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 2: bands to do benefit shows. So like because it's Portland, right, Like,

591
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 2: the local hardcore scene has a lot of bands that

592
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 2: you know, are just supportive of stuff. And we've we've

593
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 2: do done this for a whole bunch of different causes,

594
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 2: and this is this this this can also be a

595
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 2: good way to just sort of do fundraising things that

596
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 2: are fun and also raise morale because yeah, you're doing

597
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 2: the show.

598
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 4: Yeah I was. I was hoping to have that be

599
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 4: more of a thing with our fundraiser.

600
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:50,680
Speaker 2: But yeah, it can be hard to organize sometimes.

601
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, the people I knew were didn't get quite their response.

602
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 4: I was hoping from the community.

603
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 2: If you are a hardcore band, if you are abandoned,

604
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 2: click there's still time.

605
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 3: I believe that is that is totally a good option.

606
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 3: What we did, we ended up doing that.

607
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:11,799
Speaker 4: There wasn't music, But it's also like, why have our

608
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 4: organizers is really cooking? You like, did like a barbecue thing, Yeah,

609
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 4: sold food stuff like that and had a raffle.

610
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 3: A raffle is a great way to fundraise for us.

611
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 4: We like raffled off like stuff we have, But honestly,

612
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 4: you can even do like a straight monetary raffle is

613
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 4: still a great fundraising tool.

614
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 3: You know, where everyone puts in money.

615
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 4: The winner, the top three winners or whatever get like

616
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:41,960
Speaker 4: a certain percentage like the total pool, and the rest

617
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 4: of the pool is is a to the cause. It's

618
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 4: really simple, really effective.

619
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a reason it's not good, but there is

620
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:53,040
Speaker 2: a reason why a whole bunch of state education budgets

621
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:56,120
Speaker 2: are footed are flooded by the lattery. It does work,

622
00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:57,240
Speaker 2: and where.

623
00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,400
Speaker 3: Where people love to gamble much better.

624
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, he says, having turned off her lunch her path

625
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 2: of exile to lunch break to come to this interview

626
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 2: such cases. Okay, so let's speaking of I guess this

627
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 2: is something that has been tied in to sort of

628
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:18,720
Speaker 2: volve over and saying here, but yeah, let's talk about,

629
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:21,360
Speaker 2: you know, sort of maintaining the strike when it starts

630
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:23,480
Speaker 2: to sort of Yeah, what have been the processes of

631
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 2: like keeping morale up and keeping people engaged?

632
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 4: And yeah, yeah, I mean definitely, when you go into

633
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 4: a strike, you want to go in with a militant

634
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:36,800
Speaker 4: core group. You want to basically be sure that everyone

635
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:40,800
Speaker 4: is committed to holding the line until a collective decision

636
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,479
Speaker 4: is made. Otherwise you don't want people like peeling off.

637
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 4: That's really bad pr for your strike. Yeah, yeah, and

638
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 4: like the bosses will grab on that. So like, for instance,

639
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,800
Speaker 4: like you know, we have some people who are respecting

640
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 4: our picket line but chose not to picket with us,

641
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 4: which is fine as far as I'm concerned. But the

642
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:04,360
Speaker 4: issue with that pr wise is that now the bosses

643
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 4: are saying and they're like tallying up of who's working

644
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 4: and who's not working. They're counting them as working. You know,

645
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 4: they're like, oh, it's only whatever they've been saying eight people.

646
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 4: I think it's more nine or ten. We're on the

647
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 4: picket line, but the rest is the rest of the

648
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:24,480
Speaker 4: employees are working. They count themselves as employees in that count,

649
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:30,239
Speaker 4: of course, and they count these these people who are

650
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:32,800
Speaker 4: not crossing the picket line but not on it also

651
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:35,320
Speaker 4: as among that count of the rest of the employees

652
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:39,320
Speaker 4: that are working. What And they've had the opportunity to

653
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 4: really inflate that count because in a sort of you

654
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 4: know classic move, really all the moves are classic. You know,

655
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,400
Speaker 4: you read your organizing books and you're like, can it

656
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 4: happen here?

657
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:50,959
Speaker 3: It does?

658
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:55,800
Speaker 4: So like we got a lot of new assistant managers

659
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:58,880
Speaker 4: after we want our election, so right now, like the

660
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 4: composition of the workplace, right, got thirty four people fifteen managers.

661
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:05,960
Speaker 2: I really wonder when we're going to see the day

662
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 2: where you have companies that have six like non managers

663
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 2: and fifty five managers. Like I feel like we're not

664
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 2: that far out.

665
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:15,800
Speaker 4: Well, we're leading the charge here. We have a department

666
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:19,280
Speaker 4: that's two people a manager and assistant managers.

667
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 3: Manager.

668
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 4: God, So yeah, you know they're they're they've had these

669
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:33,840
Speaker 4: particular angles to you know, sort of do their propaganda from.

670
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:36,760
Speaker 3: And I mean, honestly, I think.

671
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:40,239
Speaker 4: A big part of again the boss is the best organizer,

672
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:43,080
Speaker 4: and like a thing that keeps you committed on the

673
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 4: line is like reading all this bullshit they say about

674
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:48,919
Speaker 4: you and knowing otherwise and being.

675
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 3: Able to talk to each other and be like have

676
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:54,720
Speaker 3: you seen this? Isn't this crazy? Like what the hell? Yeah?

677
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:58,920
Speaker 4: Also, you know, is this is where the sort of

678
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:02,719
Speaker 4: like see of organizing all the way that you start

679
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 4: all the way back at the beginning of your union

680
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 4: campaign become you know, you show themselves is like really

681
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:10,399
Speaker 4: important again because like the start, right anyone will tell

682
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,319
Speaker 4: you is it's like getting to know people, like being

683
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:16,279
Speaker 4: like you know, being on like a hey, how's it

684
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 4: going kind of level, you know, and having like a

685
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:22,359
Speaker 4: personal rapport with the people you're on the line with

686
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:26,680
Speaker 4: is vital just in the sense that you know, obviously

687
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 4: like you know each other, you're sort of friends, You're

688
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:28,919
Speaker 4: going to be more.

689
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 3: Likely to stick up for each other.

690
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,719
Speaker 4: But also like you're out there nine hours walking in

691
00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 4: a circle with these people, Yeah, you know, you got

692
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 4: to you gotta have positive, strong relationships with them. You

693
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 4: want to be able to have the kind of rapport

694
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:44,799
Speaker 4: where like you can talk to people about like what

695
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:48,960
Speaker 4: they're feeling anxious about, you know, like where they're worried

696
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:51,920
Speaker 4: and like the strike strategy. Like you know, you need

697
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:53,840
Speaker 4: to have that like trust between each other that you

698
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:56,240
Speaker 4: can have like an open dialogue about how it feels

699
00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 4: to be on the picket line, because you're not going

700
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 4: to maintain if ever, if like everyone feels.

701
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:04,960
Speaker 3: Like they've got things they got a hold in about it.

702
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:07,319
Speaker 4: Like yeah, there's a room to be like shit, like

703
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:09,400
Speaker 4: are they going to close the business?

704
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 3: Like and what are we going to do?

705
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:13,120
Speaker 4: And like sort of like talk through that from a

706
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,600
Speaker 4: from a place beyond like you know, like what you're not.

707
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:19,439
Speaker 3: Letting in speaking to a crowd of a million people

708
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 3: or whatever.

709
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 4: You're just like two people, yeah, going through a stressful

710
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:24,400
Speaker 4: experience together.

711
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, and you have to actually grapple with that

712
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:29,760
Speaker 2: in a way. That's not the sort of like weird

713
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:32,839
Speaker 2: corporate like we had to improve morale things, like that's

714
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:36,360
Speaker 2: not what that means. It means, like you know, it

715
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:39,600
Speaker 2: means actually grappling and engaging with people's feelings and how

716
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:43,440
Speaker 2: and what they need in a moment and yeah, and

717
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:47,800
Speaker 2: their fears and their concerns and yeah, you can't just

718
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:49,840
Speaker 2: sort of brush them aside. You have to actually grapple

719
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 2: with it, because that's that's that's what.

720
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:54,760
Speaker 4: Doing this stuff means, Yeah, exactly, having like these authentic

721
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:57,960
Speaker 4: conversations with people because like like yeah, that's like a

722
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 4: totally great point you bring up there, Like the HR

723
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 4: speak that's the boss's tool, and it's the bosses tool

724
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:09,719
Speaker 4: to divide and create disunity. So you can't lean on

725
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 4: that model for morale within your union. It just creates distrust.

726
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean I've seen that happen with unions

727
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 2: where it's like you guys did not do a good

728
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:25,239
Speaker 2: job of like talking to people about this, and like yeah,

729
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 2: and it can be really disruptive to attempts to do this.

730
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 2: But on the other hand, if if you do it well,

731
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 2: it's like it's the most powerful single thing that you

732
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:36,880
Speaker 2: can like possibly do, like forging relationships that are based

733
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:42,360
Speaker 2: on like the actual experience of having gone through struggle

734
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:44,759
Speaker 2: together and having had to like literally had to face

735
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:46,279
Speaker 2: your fields out of the picket line.

736
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 3: Yeah.

737
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like ideally, you know, the union is a is

738
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:53,440
Speaker 4: a community, and it's a community of interest, right, It's

739
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 4: a community of work interest, but it is ideally a community.

740
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 4: It's not a family, right, And it's certainly not not

741
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 4: not a family in the way that the bosses will

742
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:06,920
Speaker 4: tell you the workplace is. But it is a community,

743
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:12,120
Speaker 4: and it's a community in the way that that an employer's.

744
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 3: Idea of a community is fundamentally like incompatible with.

745
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:19,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's this this Piki Ostro wallet line that I

746
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:22,640
Speaker 2: think about a lot from her book and defensive fluting,

747
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:25,719
Speaker 2: where she talks about how I feel like it was

748
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 2: Ferguson that this is about like the police chiefs talking

749
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:31,759
Speaker 2: about the damage of the community, and they keep saying

750
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:36,120
Speaker 2: our Walmart. It's like going into a Walmart and buying

751
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 2: something is not a community, right, like you know, they

752
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:42,080
Speaker 2: like that, like those those kind of relations are not

753
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:46,360
Speaker 2: actual community relations. But when the boss talk about community,

754
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:49,279
Speaker 2: that's what they mean. They mean like like our collective

755
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:53,640
Speaker 2: community Walmart. They mean preserving the relation of extraction that

756
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:57,319
Speaker 2: they have. Yeah, and we are, you know, using the

757
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:01,800
Speaker 2: same word and reading something literally so radically different than.

758
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:04,960
Speaker 4: That, and you have to make sure and you're in

759
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:08,919
Speaker 4: the way that you're acting that that radically different meaning

760
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 4: is clear. Yeah, and yeah, it's funny you bring that up,

761
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:15,319
Speaker 4: because that's just bringing to mind, like you see the

762
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 4: difference in those attitudes, like when you're out there on

763
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:20,920
Speaker 4: the picket line like interact because you know, our picket

764
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:22,839
Speaker 4: line a really pivotal part of it because there are

765
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 4: so many managers in there that they're able to maintain

766
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 4: this like Skeleton Crew is. The community outreach part is

767
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:31,480
Speaker 4: like talking to every single person who's coming up and

768
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 4: being like, Hey, how's it going that I've been on

769
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 4: strike such and such long, this is what's up. Please

770
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 4: don't cass our picket line.

771
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:41,400
Speaker 3: And you know, I've.

772
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 4: Noticed you get this real funny situation where there are

773
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 4: the people who are like I've shopped.

774
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 3: Here for twenty years. You don't know what the hell

775
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:48,280
Speaker 3: you're talking about.

776
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 4: I don't know you and have to be like, well

777
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:52,240
Speaker 4: I normally at the dump, get in the merchandise you're buying.

778
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:57,759
Speaker 4: But and who attribute the entire attribute everything that they

779
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:00,879
Speaker 4: like about the business to the bosses. And then there's

780
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:05,200
Speaker 4: the other part of the community that is coming by

781
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 4: frequently and like hanging out with us on on on

782
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:10,319
Speaker 4: the picket line, you know, I pet the dog and

783
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 4: we chat about what's going on.

784
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:12,759
Speaker 3: They're like, how's the strike going.

785
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:15,360
Speaker 4: They're like, you know, I know it's been rough on

786
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:17,279
Speaker 4: you guys for such and such, and like these people

787
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:18,879
Speaker 4: are are are our shoppers too?

788
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:19,160
Speaker 3: Right?

789
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 4: But they like yeah, they it highlights that like sort

790
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:26,279
Speaker 4: of divide in like what you think of it as like

791
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:29,920
Speaker 4: community and responsibility your community because like these people also

792
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:34,640
Speaker 4: love urbanor come here all the time, but they recognize

793
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 4: that like it's the workers that urban or that create

794
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,840
Speaker 4: it every day, you know. Yeah, And it is a

795
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:45,719
Speaker 4: company that was like founded by the individual. The individual

796
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:48,279
Speaker 4: still owns it. He did found it with his with

797
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:50,880
Speaker 4: his labor and all that he did. The labor you know,

798
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:53,160
Speaker 4: back when it was you know, only a few people

799
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:57,000
Speaker 4: and stuff like that. But ultimately a business, like any

800
00:43:57,040 --> 00:44:00,160
Speaker 4: sort of social phenomenon, has to be constantly recreated in

801
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 4: order to exist.

802
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:03,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and like the people.

803
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:05,279
Speaker 4: Who do the work that makes it more than just

804
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 4: like a room full of garbage r us And yeah,

805
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:12,200
Speaker 4: a lot of a lot of the like regulars recognize that,

806
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:15,160
Speaker 4: and a lot of them, you know, flip me off

807
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 4: as they cross the thick line whatever.

808
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 2: And I think this is a good place to sort

809
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:24,359
Speaker 2: of start coming to a close on this is a

810
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:28,360
Speaker 2: fundamental question about what the nature of our society is

811
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:31,800
Speaker 2: going to be, right, Like, is the fundament mental nature

812
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 2: of our society that a community is a bunch of

813
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:37,600
Speaker 2: people who buy things and a bunch of people who

814
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 2: make money from you buying things, and you make money

815
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 2: from the labor that you do, right, and then take

816
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 2: credit for the labor, and take credit with financially for

817
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:48,239
Speaker 2: the labor and in public for the labor. Right is

818
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 2: that going? Is our society going to just be a

819
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:53,440
Speaker 2: bunch of pure commercial relations where a bunch of people

820
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:55,640
Speaker 2: get very very rich off the labor of everyone else

821
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:58,120
Speaker 2: in the society and get to rule the mess sort

822
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:01,200
Speaker 2: of like these petty tyrant kings. Or is it going

823
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:03,960
Speaker 2: to be a society where the people who produce the

824
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:08,520
Speaker 2: society control it, right, and that society is a democratic society,

825
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:11,359
Speaker 2: is an egalitarian society, is a society where people are

826
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 2: free to do the things that they need to do,

827
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:17,440
Speaker 2: and people are free to you know, have a life

828
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:20,439
Speaker 2: where they can fucking pay for their groceries right where

829
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:22,400
Speaker 2: like you know, where where they're where they're not forced

830
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:24,640
Speaker 2: to go to the market for all of the things

831
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:27,840
Speaker 2: that they need to live. Where you can survive in

832
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:30,920
Speaker 2: a way that doesn't involve like subjecting yourself to just

833
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:34,720
Speaker 2: a tyrant for like a third of your life.

834
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:37,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, where like the place that you spend like a

835
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:40,640
Speaker 4: third of your life is a place where you actually

836
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 4: have like dignity.

837
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 2: Dignity and freedom and where you know, where you don't

838
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:47,879
Speaker 2: have to go home at the end of a day

839
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:50,200
Speaker 2: of making your boss money worrying about whether you're going

840
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 2: to be able to eat or not. And it's and

841
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:56,759
Speaker 2: that's also a society that does not involve again at

842
00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 2: the very highest level, like you're getting thrown into prison

843
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:04,399
Speaker 2: camps because God hates you, and we can do this.

844
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:05,880
Speaker 2: We could live with that society.

845
00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:11,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, the demands are not that crazy. And that's like

846
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:14,200
Speaker 4: the thing that we've encountered over and over again, is

847
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:17,600
Speaker 4: this this constant push and pull of people saying that,

848
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:22,279
Speaker 4: like the expectation of bettering our conditions, whether it be

849
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:24,680
Speaker 4: like us on the picket line just trying to get

850
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:27,600
Speaker 4: like a stable wage and just cause employment and stuff

851
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 4: like that, or whether it be you know, those larger

852
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:33,359
Speaker 4: societal changes that like you're talking about use butt up

853
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:35,840
Speaker 4: against these people who who have such like a paucity

854
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:40,680
Speaker 4: of imagination about what's possible. Yeah, And like about the

855
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:46,719
Speaker 4: legitimacy of trying to make something better, the legitimacy of saying, sure,

856
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:50,720
Speaker 4: I can subsist on this, but you know, there's.

857
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:51,800
Speaker 3: So much more as possible.

858
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:55,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, So I'm maintained that there's something more as possible.

859
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:56,680
Speaker 3: Yeah.

860
00:46:56,920 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 2: I think it's possible too. And that's the thing about

861
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 2: this world, right, is that our enemies I figured out

862
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:03,320
Speaker 2: that it actually can change.

863
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:06,040
Speaker 3: That's why they have to fight so hard. Yeah.

864
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:07,520
Speaker 2: But the thing is the fact that they can change

865
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 2: for the worse also means that they can change for

866
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:09,279
Speaker 2: the better.

867
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:10,480
Speaker 3: All beautiful stuff.

868
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:13,000
Speaker 2: Okay, where where can people find your strike fund? We'll

869
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:14,880
Speaker 2: also put it in the in the description.

870
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, great, So it's on gofund me. I'll send

871
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:21,800
Speaker 4: you the link and it'll be down there. But also

872
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:27,160
Speaker 4: people can hit up our union Instagram it's Urban or

873
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:32,320
Speaker 4: workers with underscores between the words Urban, underscore or underscore

874
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:35,319
Speaker 4: worker that we've got the link to like strike fund.

875
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:38,399
Speaker 4: And also, hey, if you're in Berkeley, you can sign

876
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:40,800
Speaker 4: up for a picket shift and you get to enjoy

877
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:44,520
Speaker 4: listening to me discourse for nine hours instead of one.

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Speaker 2: It's great, it's fun. Pickets are cool and good. If

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Speaker 2: you have a bit on one, you should go on one.

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Speaker 2: They're great, they're great. Yeah, it's a good time.

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Speaker 1: It could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

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00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:04,120
Speaker 1: folsomedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeart

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00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:06,839
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever.

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00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:07,839
Speaker 2: You listen to podcasts.

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Speaker 1: You can now find sources for It could Happen here

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Speaker 1: listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.