1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,440 Speaker 1: On today's episode of Ticket to the Draft podcast, we 2 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 1: got draft talk. We're back, baby, and you know we're 3 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:06,960 Speaker 1: not getting ahead of ourselves. Mana's gotta go to the super Bowl. 4 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:10,400 Speaker 1: But we are talking draft. We're talking how to evaluate prospects, 5 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:12,640 Speaker 1: super high level things you can look for at. 6 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 2: Home right trust your eyes. 7 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:17,200 Speaker 1: We're talking NFL threshold, why those are important, and maybe 8 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:20,079 Speaker 1: most importantly, we get into the weeds on every single 9 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: position and here's one or two things you can look 10 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: for that are essential. It all starts right now. Welcome 11 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:33,840 Speaker 1: into the Ticket to Draft Podcast. I'm Logan Paulson here 12 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 1: with just a guy Jason and guys. 13 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 2: We are here. We're back. We're here to talk draft. 14 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:42,159 Speaker 1: However, we're going to kind of like chill out today 15 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 1: specifically because we're still playing competitive football. 16 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:46,920 Speaker 2: The commanders are right, Ja. 17 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:47,559 Speaker 3: Yeah, we're in there. 18 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, we're in it. Jordan Daniels, where it is. 19 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 1: We're making a push for the playoffs, probably super Bowl. 20 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 1: But just know we want to kind of touch base 21 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:56,640 Speaker 1: with you, guys. Make sure you understood that we're still 22 00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 1: going to go to the Senior Bowl, We're still going 23 00:00:57,920 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: to the Combine. We're still going to give you all 24 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 1: of our kind of top flight insight on the draft. 25 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 1: We're gonna get the heavy hitters on here, Trevor Sikama, 26 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 1: Field Yates, some big boy kind of draft analysts on 27 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 1: here talk about their process. 28 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:08,679 Speaker 2: That's all coming. 29 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 1: But again, we figured we're going to start the off 30 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 1: season when the Commanders start the off season, which hopefully 31 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 1: is after the Super Bowl. 32 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:16,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, we just wanted to get an episode out just 33 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 3: let you guys know that we are coming back again 34 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 3: this year. We put out like close to thirty podcasts 35 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 3: last year. Going through everything through this draft process, I 36 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 3: love it. I became a huge fan of the process, 37 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 3: really started grinding logan. You taught me so much and 38 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 3: maybe appreciate football so much more. It doesn't hurt that 39 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:39,360 Speaker 3: I'm lucky enough to be in an organization or a 40 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 3: part of an organization that has Adam Peters when and 41 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 3: Jaden Daniels coming through. So seeing like what the rookie 42 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:51,559 Speaker 3: class has done and watching their process and learning from 43 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 3: just watching right, Like, I don't have any inside information whatsoever. 44 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 3: I'm just watching what they're doing and it's it's crazy cool. 45 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 3: I'm like, I want to learn how to do that. 46 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I think that's exactly right. 47 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 1: And I think it's it's funny like when the free 48 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 1: agency process has been so successful, when the draft process 49 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: has been so successful, you want to kind of kind 50 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 1: of distill and pick things from that and say, this 51 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:14,960 Speaker 1: is why at work, this is things that we expect 52 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 1: the team to do moving forward. And it's always fun. 53 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 1: The more in depth each year that we get with 54 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:22,920 Speaker 1: the draft, the more you learn about the process, the 55 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 1: more you learn about, hey, I may be missed on 56 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 1: this evaluation, or this is why this team missed on 57 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 1: this evaluation, talking with people, having conversations, and so it's 58 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 1: really just a fun time of year because it's a 59 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 1: time for every team in the NFL to get better 60 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 1: and hopefully if they're handling the process appropriately, everyone's getting better. 61 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:41,360 Speaker 1: But every year someone screws something up, someone takes a 62 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 1: you know, like a little bit of a swing out 63 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:45,920 Speaker 1: of fastball, and they miss it and onto the next 64 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:47,920 Speaker 1: year and they kind of have to live with those decisions, 65 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 1: and some of them have long standing ramifications. 66 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 3: And it's just self scouting, right, that's kind of what 67 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 3: you're talking about. Like, for me, that's what I loved 68 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 3: this off season of this podcast is going back looking 69 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 3: at how I scouted things like Okay, what did I miss? 70 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:05,080 Speaker 3: Why did I miss it? Can I is that an exception? 71 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 3: Is that a rule? And just trying to learn so 72 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 3: I can get better at this process. And I want 73 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 3: to say that like we had a we were very 74 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:14,800 Speaker 3: lucky in that we had a lot of fans follow 75 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 3: this podcast, which was really humbling and awesome. I think 76 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:21,520 Speaker 3: it's a lot because of you, because you're so incredibly 77 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 3: smart and talented. I have nothing to do with it. 78 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 3: I'm just a guy. It's all Logan, and I just 79 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 3: want people to know, like you need to like and 80 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 3: subscribe this podcast because Logan is going to I mean, 81 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 3: you get in the weeds more than I think, personally 82 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 3: more than anybody else. I listened to all the draft podcasts. 83 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 3: Maybe the PFF guys are right there because they they 84 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 3: get really into it with the stats. But having a 85 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 3: former ten year veteran of the NFL talk about what 86 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 3: it's like to be in the NFL, how you can 87 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 3: see maybe those traits, whether they're physical, they're mental, they're technical. 88 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 3: I think you have a step above almost in anybody 89 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 3: else out there, and you if you want draft content, 90 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 3: you need to put Logan balls in on whatever podcast 91 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 3: he's won. I recommend this one, but you need to 92 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 3: put him in your weekly cue. 93 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 2: Oh that's very nice for you. 94 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 1: And again, like it's cool to have a job where 95 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 1: I get to do with this stuff and talk talk 96 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 1: football and talk draft and talk about my passions and 97 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:22,040 Speaker 1: so yeah, I think we should probably dig in a 98 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 1: little bit. 99 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:23,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, let's do it. 100 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 1: The first thing we want to talk about is what 101 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 1: can we expect from the Washington Commanders. And I think 102 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:30,720 Speaker 1: this is a really good one because last year we 103 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 1: kind of saw this road map, this model of kind 104 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 1: of saying, hey, you know, we're going to draft good 105 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 1: football players, but who are captains? Team leaders? Good players 106 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: in college have these leadership qualities, are self starters, And 107 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 1: I think all of those things are extremely important and 108 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 1: I expect to see a lot of those things transfer 109 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 1: over again. However, it's interesting to watch teams that have 110 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 1: been part of long term building processes they still have 111 00:04:56,200 --> 00:05:00,080 Speaker 1: those underlying tenants, you know, like the self starters, the 112 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:02,600 Speaker 1: the team captains. I think those are threads you'll see throughout. 113 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:04,719 Speaker 1: But I kind of wonder this year if they'll take 114 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 1: a take some shots maybe in late rounds on guys 115 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 1: with traits, like every once in a while you see. 116 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 2: The Philadelphia Eagles do this. 117 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 1: Last year, for example, they drafted Johnny Wilson, who is 118 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:16,600 Speaker 1: this you know, six seven, two hundred and forty pound 119 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:19,279 Speaker 1: wide receiver, you know, maybe not the best receiver, but 120 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 1: has these tremendous traits. They still have their kind of model, 121 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: but occasionally they'll take a flyer on someone who's exceptionally 122 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:28,560 Speaker 1: talented in a later round just to kind of give 123 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 1: it a shot and see if it works out. I 124 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 1: wonder if you see some of that this year coming 125 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: into the Yark because again, you've kind of established the 126 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:38,280 Speaker 1: foundation with all with this first class, with this first 127 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 1: free agency group, and I wonder if that's something we'll 128 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 1: see moving forward. 129 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 3: Do you how quickly do you think that teams are 130 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 3: able to do that to like take swing from the 131 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 3: heels in a sense, like a baseball term, just really 132 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:54,160 Speaker 3: go for the grand slam when like you use the analogy, 133 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 3: last year, we're just trying to hit singles, ye, right, 134 00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:02,840 Speaker 3: because that's what AH not a rebuild, but a recalibrate 135 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:06,480 Speaker 3: organization does. Just let's just get on base. We're a 136 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 3: little bit and then we can start taking these big 137 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 3: swings because we have a core in nucleus here that 138 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 3: we believe in. 139 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think it's it's kind of it's managing that. 140 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:16,839 Speaker 1: So I think last year, everyone, every one of the 141 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 1: decisions felt like we're getting on base, We're getting a 142 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 1: connection with the athlete, we're getting connection with the organization. 143 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:27,040 Speaker 2: We're having people who are, you know, good football players. 144 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 1: And I think the thing that sticks out to me 145 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 1: is when I talk to people at the combine, when 146 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:32,919 Speaker 1: I talk to people are the Senior Bowl Scout specifically, 147 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:36,479 Speaker 1: they're like, you want five sure things. 148 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 2: Quote unquote, guys you feel really good about. 149 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:41,479 Speaker 1: They fit the measurables, they their production is really good, 150 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 1: they're good citizens, they're good people. And then you can 151 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 1: take three guys that are maybe a little bit more risky. 152 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:49,159 Speaker 1: And that was the person I talked to was from 153 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:51,600 Speaker 1: like an established organization. I'm not going to reference the organization, 154 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:53,479 Speaker 1: but they were from a established group that the staff 155 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:54,840 Speaker 1: had been there for a long time, the coach had 156 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 1: been there for a long time. And I think, so 157 00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 1: you're always going to want that foundational, like like get 158 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:04,159 Speaker 1: on base type of guy, but every once in a while, 159 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:05,840 Speaker 1: you can take one where you're like, I don't see 160 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 1: exactly what this is, but I see the athlete, I 161 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 1: see the upside, I see the work ethic, and I 162 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 1: see he's misused or miscast in college. I'm going to 163 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 1: take a swing at this, and I think he's going 164 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 1: to be something really special. I think a great example 165 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 1: of that is like yeah ya Dabi for example, for 166 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 1: Tampa Bay, Like I remember doing his evaluation. He was 167 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 1: playing this three four defensive end. He couldn't rush the 168 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 1: pass or he's playing basically defensive tackle, and then somebody 169 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 1: got it in my ear that he was going to 170 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 1: maybe project a defensive end and you start thinking about 171 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 1: it like that, You're like, oh my gosh, if that 172 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 1: hits with his size, his speed, his power that he 173 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 1: plays with, that could be a big, a huge, explosive 174 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 1: draft pick for them. And so there's a little bit 175 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 1: of projection there, kind of probably more than you'd be 176 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 1: comfortable with and like a normal like get on base 177 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 1: type of pick. And if you look at it, this 178 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 1: last year, he was like a top four pass rusher 179 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 1: in the NFL in terms of pressure rate. So that's 180 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 1: one where example, you take a guy in the third 181 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 1: round there's a little bit more risk associated with it 182 00:07:57,280 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 1: in terms of his developmental arc, but it works out 183 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 1: in a big way for that organization. 184 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 3: So something that you're talking about there that I think 185 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 3: is interesting and you don't have to be a fan 186 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 3: of the Commanders listening to this podcast and get something 187 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 3: out of it, because I think a lot of good 188 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 3: organizations do this, And you reference it in the sense 189 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 3: of like, we're not just taking sometimes a guy that's 190 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 3: like everybody says, is good at football in college, right 191 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 3: like we're we're looking we're looking at a specific skill set, 192 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 3: how can it translate or a mentality and what I uh. 193 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 3: That's one of the things that the Commanders did a 194 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 3: lot of last year in the last draft that hit 195 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 3: for them is they were looking for a mentality. And 196 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 3: when you do that, sometimes you're not drafting for need. 197 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 3: You draft this is where the best player available comes in, 198 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:43,680 Speaker 3: because an organization will sit there and they'll say, Okay, 199 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:47,199 Speaker 3: maybe this guy has a little more talent, like college 200 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 3: stats were there he stood out, but maybe he doesn't 201 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 3: have these intangibles quote unquote that fit within what we 202 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:59,080 Speaker 3: want of an organization, and so we'd rather take a 203 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 3: guy with this mentality and one or two traits that 204 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 3: we think will translate and mold them into something different 205 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 3: than they were in college. 206 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:08,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's exactly right, because again, you want 207 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 1: you want the foundation, and that's something really hard is 208 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 1: like there's players, like there's certain schools that have the reputation, 209 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 1: Alabama being one of them of having kids that are 210 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:22,080 Speaker 1: they're they're kind of constantly chaperone, they're kind of forced 211 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 1: to go to the workouts, they're forced to go to practice, 212 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 1: there's someone that goes to class with them, and they're 213 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 1: not great self starters because of the in the environment 214 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:32,079 Speaker 1: that Nick Saban has developed and cultivated there. And Nick 215 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:35,320 Speaker 1: Saban's talked about that too, right, But there are guys 216 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:36,840 Speaker 1: like to your point, that are like, Hey, I'm going 217 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:38,200 Speaker 1: to get an extra lift in, I'm going to be 218 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:39,839 Speaker 1: early to practice, I'm going to stay late so i 219 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 1: can get my work done. And those are guys you 220 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 1: really want to make sure you're betting on right because 221 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 1: when you draft the player like that, with those kind 222 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:51,200 Speaker 1: of intangibles, the leadership qualities, the work ethic, they're going 223 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:53,960 Speaker 1: to continue to get better and ultimately, like the thing 224 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 1: that's so hard about the draft and why everyone says 225 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:58,840 Speaker 1: it's a crapshoot and I'm not breaking any like revolutionary 226 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:02,719 Speaker 1: ground here. For example, is that even though you get 227 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 1: an athlete who's very, very skilled, the game from college 228 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 1: to the NFL is different. And we talked about that 229 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:10,319 Speaker 1: on last year's show, And so how do I get 230 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 1: a guy that's going to develop continue to grow in 231 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 1: this environment? And it's those intangibles that really make that go. 232 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 1: And I think you see that with guys like Mike Sanderstill, 233 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 1: Joshan Newton, like watched their developmental arc Jaden Daniels over 234 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:25,720 Speaker 1: the course of the year. They'd never stayed the same, 235 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 1: they got better each and every week. We saw Mike 236 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:30,080 Speaker 1: sand Rossel get beat on this type of route, the 237 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:32,079 Speaker 1: next week he covers it up. Jade Daniels gets beat 238 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 1: by this type of coverage. And that's again, the coaches 239 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 1: are doing a great job supporting that athlete, but they 240 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 1: have to have something kind of internally that motivates them 241 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:43,440 Speaker 1: to get better. And I think that's that's where like 242 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 1: we're doing talent evaluational like on large part on our end, 243 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 1: but they're doing scouting. And the scouting is the thing 244 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 1: that's the different thing there because it's what type of 245 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:55,439 Speaker 1: person is he? What type of pro is he going 246 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: to be? And that's where you really and one of 247 00:10:58,040 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 1: the things that was so impressed last ye about Adam 248 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 1: Peter is he did that I felt like so incredibly 249 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 1: well finding a guy like Brandon Coleman who is kind 250 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 1: of this guard tweetyer player, but looked at the measurables, 251 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 1: looked at the athlete, talked to his coaches, and you're like, 252 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:14,679 Speaker 1: oh man, this guy could maybe be a starting left 253 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:17,720 Speaker 1: tackle the NFL. And so those are like that's where 254 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:20,319 Speaker 1: the magic sauce is made, is finding those kind of 255 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: magic intangibles. 256 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:24,439 Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, And it's a combination. Ultimately, when you put 257 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 3: your quote unquote big board together at the end, who 258 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:28,959 Speaker 3: goes up at the top, Well, you want them to 259 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 3: hit the intangibles. You want them to hit the evalue 260 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 3: the ev ows that you do of just watching them, 261 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 3: like the technical how they move, how their ball control, 262 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 3: whatever that is. And then you want them to hit 263 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 3: the things of like the combine stuff right the forty time, 264 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 3: the bench press, like all these things is like you 265 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 3: combine them all up, mix them all together. Do you 266 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 3: have the perfect creative Matt and create a player in. 267 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:58,320 Speaker 1: There, absolutely, And I think that's something that is always 268 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:00,680 Speaker 1: so fun and it's so fun when you're watching, Like 269 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 1: I consume a lot of draft content when I'm getting 270 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 1: ready to do this show, and it's so funny to 271 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: see how a good Senior Bowl or good Combine gets 272 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:10,079 Speaker 1: changes the narrative about. 273 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 2: A player because of these. 274 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:16,199 Speaker 1: Like pre existing metrics that kind of support positional success. 275 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 1: So that's something that's always fun to kind of keep 276 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:20,080 Speaker 1: an eye on, and something we're going to keep an 277 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:21,440 Speaker 1: eye on for sure over the course of the show. 278 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:22,839 Speaker 1: You know, we're gonna go to the Combine, gonna be 279 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:24,839 Speaker 1: the Senior Bowl, so we'll we have a front row 280 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 1: seat to all that stuff, which is always a lot 281 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 1: of fun and and give you the talent evaluation and 282 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 1: how they fit in these certain boxes. But again, if 283 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 1: you're if you're really into the draft stuff, the best 284 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 1: draft nerds I know are always able to find out 285 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 1: little details about the player, right, Oh, the player X 286 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 1: is Oh he goes and does soup kitchens on the weekend, 287 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: and he does all this with his free time and 288 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 1: a good guy and study's extra and you know has 289 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 1: dinners at his house, brings the whole old line over 290 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 1: whatever it is, and all that stuff is the is, 291 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 1: the is, the is the finishing on the sauce that 292 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 1: really says this guy's going to make the jump to 293 00:12:56,960 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 1: the next level. 294 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:00,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, and they put that in like the reality of 295 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:04,200 Speaker 3: here in Washington. To me, what I remember of those 296 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 3: two things that as I did evaluation process as we went, 297 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 3: we didn't know was that Jaden there was talk he 298 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 3: shows up he's a first one at LSU, right, he's 299 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:18,839 Speaker 3: the first one there. And then the VR training that 300 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 3: they said he would do all the time using a 301 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 3: VR headset and to learn defenses and work through that, 302 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 3: like just taking his preparation to another level. And like 303 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 3: we don't when you're at the combine, when you're at 304 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:33,800 Speaker 3: the Senior Bowl, you don't see those things. You can 305 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 3: only hear those things from the janitor at Melis or 306 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:39,960 Speaker 3: whatever when you talk to them. And so what I 307 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 3: want to ask you, though, is let's move into the 308 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:44,840 Speaker 3: evaluation part of this, because this is the time where 309 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 3: people are really starting to get into evaluating prospects, especially 310 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:53,559 Speaker 3: fans of other teams. Not to watch the commanders. Right now, 311 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:56,960 Speaker 3: we're focused on the playoffs. But other teams, their fans 312 00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:59,319 Speaker 3: are looking at the draft. They've already moved ahead. So 313 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 3: let's talk about ways that they can evaluate players. And 314 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:05,719 Speaker 3: we're going to do that by me asking you how 315 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 3: do you evaluate players? Because you're the expert here, so 316 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 3: give me your high level thoughts. When you're watching a player, 317 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:15,440 Speaker 3: when you're watching a prospect, what are you looking at? First? 318 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:17,079 Speaker 3: The very first thing, The. 319 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:17,679 Speaker 2: Very first thing. 320 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 1: I have a column in my spreadsheet, which you know 321 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 1: that just simply says like yes or no, and it's 322 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 1: a very binary thing. But it's like, can this person 323 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:30,120 Speaker 1: from a movement technical standpoint play at the NFL level? 324 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 2: And that becomes somewhat. 325 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 1: Suggestive, you know, as you go through the process, and 326 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 1: it's suggestive based on my opinion. But basically, like when 327 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 1: you're watching a guy. So I was watching the left 328 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 1: tackle from Michigan, for example, and he's on nobody's radar 329 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 1: right now, no one's talking about him. But I'm, you know, 330 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 1: watching the running backs from Michigan, and I'm like, oh, 331 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 1: who's this left tackle? So I'm kind of going through 332 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 1: his clips and I'm like, he's big, he's got a 333 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 1: good anchor, he's got strong hands, he's got good feet, 334 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:56,240 Speaker 1: and so to me, even though no one's talking about him, 335 00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:57,600 Speaker 1: he's a senior, he's a grad senior. 336 00:14:57,880 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 2: It's like he's a yes, right. 337 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 1: And then there's other guys on the list, Like there's 338 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 1: a tackle from Rutgers, for example, who's big fella, and 339 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 1: he's got a lot of hype around him, but when 340 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 1: you watch him, he. 341 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:09,720 Speaker 2: Just doesn't move quite right. 342 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: He can't set the bowl, he can't set his anchor 343 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 1: very well. And you're like, that's a no, because that's 344 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 1: a technical issue and an anatomical issue. Because of his 345 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 1: length length and his torso length. They say he's never 346 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 1: going to be able to play at the next level. 347 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 1: And you take another example of the right tackle for 348 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 1: Minnesota for example, and he is technically perfect, it's. 349 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 2: Excellent to watch. 350 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 1: He anders, sounds, had an anchor and says that to 351 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 1: drive his feet, sink on contact, all these different things. 352 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 1: But then you see a move in space and you're like, 353 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 1: I don't know if he's athletic enough to be anything 354 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 1: more than kind of a rotational backup. So that column 355 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 1: is my first jumping off point. 356 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 3: And you're saying, like you're talking about some technical things, 357 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 3: but you're saying you just you're not dissecting it technically, 358 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:52,080 Speaker 3: you're able to call it out because you've done this, yeah, 359 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 3: for so long. But something just looks on. 360 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 1: It's just off, like the movement skills aren't right. They 361 00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 1: can't set a bull or like a receiver, they just 362 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 1: look like that's a big thing that shows up. Maybe 363 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 1: the number one thing in this column is just a 364 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 1: lack of athleticism or a general stiffness that you just 365 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:12,640 Speaker 1: got to be aware of that. And when you're looking 366 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 1: when you're talking about athleticism, stiffness, all these they're kind 367 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 1: of subjective, but you know, there's certain receivers where you 368 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 1: watch them get out of break and they kind of 369 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 1: get stuck at the top and it's because they're too 370 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 1: stiff in the hips. Their ankles don't bend the right way, 371 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 1: and they get a pass broken up and you're like, 372 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 1: that could be a fatal flaw at the next level. 373 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 1: Or you get a big wide out they're six ' four, 374 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 1: they're two twenty, and they can't quite run, so then 375 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 1: you say no as a receiver, but maybe yes, it's 376 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 1: a tight end or something like that. And I think 377 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 1: that's where that column is and that's just the super 378 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 1: high level stuff, right, And it does help when you're 379 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 1: kind of distilling all this information. Like our goal, like 380 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 1: last year we watched I want to say, two hundred 381 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:50,960 Speaker 1: and twenty five guys. This year, the goal is to 382 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 1: watch three hundred guys. And so when you're going through 383 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 1: three hundred athletes, you need to get your list down. 384 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 1: I think you hear about some teams going into the 385 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 1: draft with a draft list of fifty athletes. It's fifty 386 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 1: guys that they are targeting in the draft. That's essentially 387 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 1: what I'm doing with that metric is like, yes, this 388 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:08,080 Speaker 1: guy can do it, No, this guy can't do it. 389 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 1: And as the process goes, that does change for me. 390 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 1: But usually that I find that that first kind of 391 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:18,720 Speaker 1: knee jerk reaction is very It kind of sets the tone, right, 392 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:20,720 Speaker 1: and it's kind of like and oftentimes I go back 393 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 1: and I check that yes, no, and I'm like, man, 394 00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 1: I was right about this six months ago, and I 395 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:26,200 Speaker 1: kind of talked myself out of it because of something 396 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:26,880 Speaker 1: else than I read. 397 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:29,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, So what's the next step then? 398 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, So that's like kind of like a general movement assessment. 399 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 1: And then there's also like an element of this next 400 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:37,359 Speaker 1: column in there, and this one's maybe more important is 401 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:40,879 Speaker 1: the compete toughness category, right, because what that does for 402 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 1: me is it kind of informs. 403 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:46,679 Speaker 2: Like, hey, this athlete. It shows a. 404 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:51,120 Speaker 1: Willingness, a want to, a grit and usually not always, 405 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 1: but usually that player is successful at the NFL level 406 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:57,040 Speaker 1: because it shows a passion and a hunger and a 407 00:17:57,119 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 1: want to. And so what I'm talking about a great example, 408 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:01,919 Speaker 1: I've used this every year done the show, is like 409 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 1: a receiver on a crack block. 410 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 2: Right. 411 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:06,400 Speaker 1: A receiver gets in there, he's going to crack the safety. 412 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:09,240 Speaker 1: It's a big physical play. A lot of receivers they 413 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:11,359 Speaker 1: kind of take creative angles, they kind of dodge out 414 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:12,919 Speaker 1: of it. But when you see a dude put his 415 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:15,640 Speaker 1: mouthpiece in, getting a tight split and crack that guy, 416 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 1: crack that safety on a block, tough, really physical play. 417 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:22,040 Speaker 1: I'm like that receiver. I don't know anything about him, 418 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 1: but I know that he loves football because that's something 419 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 1: that the position does not want to do. They don't 420 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 1: like that, and he's doing it at a really high level. 421 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:31,159 Speaker 1: And you look at receivers that have been successful that 422 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 1: I'm not kidding Amina Saint Brown. That was something that 423 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:36,560 Speaker 1: I had in his avout was a yes on the 424 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:39,159 Speaker 1: toughness Jamison Williams because we're talking about Detroit, Like I 425 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:41,879 Speaker 1: remember watching He's a skinny, kind of frail guy. He 426 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 1: played gunner on kick on punt, he was cracking on 427 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:48,120 Speaker 1: run plays, he's blocking on screens. Those things are like, man, 428 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 1: that's the type of athlete, the competitor that I want. 429 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:54,440 Speaker 1: And I think that toughness, that competitiveness again, it informs 430 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:56,399 Speaker 1: some of the scouting stuff that we don't get and 431 00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 1: that's why it's such an important metric. 432 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 3: So what are some things where like a general fan 433 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:02,680 Speaker 3: can just trust their eyes on they can look at 434 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 3: it and they can say, Okay, I can see that 435 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:06,120 Speaker 3: this guy is doing this. 436 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 2: Yeah. 437 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 1: I think it depends on how much football you've watched, 438 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 1: Like we were talking about this the other day, and 439 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:11,480 Speaker 1: for me, if you've watched a lot of ball, there 440 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 1: are certain times you're like that doesn't look right. There's 441 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:18,720 Speaker 1: something wrong, and what is what's wrong about it? 442 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:19,399 Speaker 2: I don't know. 443 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:21,479 Speaker 1: I can't really put my finger on it, but trust 444 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:24,680 Speaker 1: that initial gut reaction. So for example, like when you're 445 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 1: watching Will Campbell, like everything technically he's the tackle from LSU. 446 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:32,040 Speaker 1: Everything technically looks great, like he's in good position, he 447 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 1: moves well. You're like, okay, this is all good. But 448 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 1: then you watch a couple of pass pro reps. You're like, 449 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 1: why is this hard for him? And the thing that 450 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:40,119 Speaker 1: jumps out to me is like, hey, there's maybe a 451 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 1: lack of length. There's maybe an issue with his ability 452 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 1: to play tackle at the next level. Like trust those 453 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:49,919 Speaker 1: little moments where you're like, the foot speed's off, the 454 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:53,880 Speaker 1: hand placement's off, and that usually informs that yes, no, right, 455 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:55,640 Speaker 1: Just make a little note to yourself and say, hey, 456 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: this is what we're doing. 457 00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:57,320 Speaker 2: We're okay with that. 458 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:00,439 Speaker 3: And some of those things you may not like average 459 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:02,159 Speaker 3: you won't be able to, like, won't be able to 460 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:05,080 Speaker 3: technically see what it is, but just trust your eyes 461 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 3: and the evaluation. 462 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:06,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, trust your eyes. 463 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 1: And again, you depends on how much much football you watch, Like, 464 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 1: I know you've watched a ton of football, and so 465 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 1: there's certain things that you. 466 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 2: See where a receiver catches. 467 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:15,680 Speaker 1: A ball and it doesn't look quite right, like why 468 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:17,440 Speaker 1: is he fighting the ball so much? Like what's going 469 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:20,359 Speaker 1: on there? Make a note of that. Trust that because 470 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 1: again like are they a natural hands catcher, And you 471 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:24,639 Speaker 1: can get into technico he's tracking the ball wrong or 472 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 1: a thumb should be up or his body positions like whatever. 473 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 1: But if it looks weird, usually that's a pretty good 474 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 1: indicator that they're not a great catcher of the fall. Now, 475 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:35,639 Speaker 1: there are exceptions like Terry McCormick Coorin kind of catches 476 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 1: the ball awkwardly. But then that's where you go to 477 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 1: like an underlying metric and say, oh, actually it's not 478 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:41,800 Speaker 1: problematic for him because it never drops the ball, you 479 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:43,720 Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. So, like there are things like 480 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:45,360 Speaker 1: that where you got to kind of there are exceptions, 481 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:48,360 Speaker 1: but trust that initial first take I find. 482 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 3: So then why does the combine matter so much? 483 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:53,200 Speaker 2: Right? 484 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:56,399 Speaker 3: Because they're not playing football right and they're throwing routes 485 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:59,440 Speaker 3: on air and so all these things. When the combine 486 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:03,200 Speaker 3: is a big, big, big moment in the draft process 487 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:08,119 Speaker 3: forty times arm length, right bench press. If you're able 488 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:10,000 Speaker 3: to evaluate a player like you said and just trust 489 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 3: your eyes and be able to say, okay, something doesn't 490 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 3: look great, how can they then go to the combine 491 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:16,600 Speaker 3: and go, Okay, we're moving you up. Even if there's 492 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:18,199 Speaker 3: something a little bit off what's happening there. 493 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:18,480 Speaker 2: Yeah. 494 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:21,520 Speaker 1: So for example, like I think a really good example 495 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:23,840 Speaker 1: of this from a couple of years ago was Peter Skorronsky. 496 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:24,040 Speaker 2: Right. 497 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:27,399 Speaker 1: When you watch Peter Skoronski, like, there's something about his body, 498 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 1: how it bends, how he sinks, and you're like, he's 499 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:32,280 Speaker 1: a good football player. But everyone's saying, are you going 500 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 1: to play tackle? Are you going to play guard? Are 501 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:35,160 Speaker 1: you going to play center? 502 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 2: Like? What are you going to do in this space? 503 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 1: And then when you get to the combat and you 504 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:43,240 Speaker 1: got thirty two inch arms, like, it makes me really 505 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:45,439 Speaker 1: skeptical that you're going to be able to play a 506 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:47,040 Speaker 1: tackle to the next level, Like, it just makes me 507 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:50,119 Speaker 1: skeptical because the threshold there is usually thirty four inches 508 00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: for arm length, right, And why is that? Because defensive 509 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:55,879 Speaker 1: ends are bigger, they're taller, they're longer. Their minimum thresholds 510 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 1: about thirty four inches, And you want your offensive tackle 511 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:00,760 Speaker 1: to be able to reach out and to the defensive 512 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:03,640 Speaker 1: player before they can touch you. And it just helps 513 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 1: you sink a bawl. In pass protection, it helps you 514 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:08,159 Speaker 1: kind of negotiate hand fighting, it helps you recover more. 515 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:11,600 Speaker 1: Imagine if I had, you know, like Dwan Jones, for example, 516 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:12,920 Speaker 1: from my house state a couple years. I got thirty 517 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:15,560 Speaker 1: six in charms. I've seen him in the NFL miss 518 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:19,160 Speaker 1: a punch, refit his hand because he's got an extra 519 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 1: six inches of work here that the guy has. 520 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:22,360 Speaker 2: To throw his move. 521 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 1: He can pull his hand back and then punch again 522 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:26,240 Speaker 1: because of that extra distance he's provided. You see it 523 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:27,480 Speaker 1: in MMA fights all the time. 524 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:29,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like a boxer. 525 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:31,760 Speaker 2: It's one hundred percent right. So it is a it's 526 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:33,440 Speaker 2: a huge variable. 527 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:35,399 Speaker 1: For offensive lineman. And then Peter Scrans's going to be 528 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 1: a good pro, right, but he's going to be good 529 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:39,440 Speaker 1: prot guard. So if I if I'm a team making 530 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:41,320 Speaker 1: an investment in a tackle, which will tend to be 531 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 1: harder to find, I'm going to look for somebody who 532 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:46,480 Speaker 1: kind of has more of those measurement qualities I'm looking for. 533 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:48,680 Speaker 1: I think, you know, we talked about Brandon Coleman like 534 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:50,959 Speaker 1: that was a great fine last year because I kind 535 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:52,199 Speaker 1: of had him as a guard. But then when you 536 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 1: look at the measurements, you're like, man, athletically, this is 537 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 1: a profile that fits a tackle. He's got thirty five 538 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:00,040 Speaker 1: inch arms, he's six y four, he's three twenty, he 539 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 1: runs a four to nine, he's got a ten yard 540 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:04,359 Speaker 1: split that's top ten percent in the NFL. And so 541 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:06,200 Speaker 1: if I'm going to take a shot on a guy 542 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 1: in a third round, I'm going to take that shot 543 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 1: because he can go to tackle. If he fails at tackle, 544 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 1: because he's got all these measurements, he easily transitions to guard. 545 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,160 Speaker 1: And I think that's something where that's why those measurements 546 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 1: are so important. That receivers are another great example. There's 547 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,240 Speaker 1: a receiver you might love, right, He's like a nice 548 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 1: shifty slot receiver. He's winning with explosiveness and speed, and 549 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:29,960 Speaker 1: then he goes to the combine and he jumps twenty 550 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 1: eight inches and you're like, that's not very explosive. He 551 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:34,320 Speaker 1: has a nine foot broad that's not very explosive. He 552 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:36,640 Speaker 1: runs a four seven forty. All of a sudden, all 553 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 1: those explosive measurements you saw on film, you have to 554 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 1: call in a question. You have to be like, is 555 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 1: it worth taking a risk on a guy who's not 556 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:46,680 Speaker 1: actually that explosive and fast, who's winning with explosion in speed? 557 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:47,440 Speaker 2: Right? 558 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:52,400 Speaker 3: And I think that because there's so many college players, Yeah, 559 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:56,360 Speaker 3: so many teams, so many conferences that maybe this guy 560 00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:59,680 Speaker 3: looks really explosives on Shilm, but it's because it's all 561 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 3: real to everything that's going on around him. Right, Maybe 562 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 3: the competition's not as high. He's not playing against potential 563 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:09,359 Speaker 3: NFL talent. You don't tend to see this with teams 564 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:12,600 Speaker 3: like LSU, Alabama, like all the because all these guys 565 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:14,159 Speaker 3: are going to the NFL, not all of them, but 566 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 3: this is NFL talent that's on the field. So you 567 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:19,440 Speaker 3: get a good idea that like, Okay, well they can 568 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,399 Speaker 3: make the transition up. You expect them to do certain 569 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:26,639 Speaker 3: things at the combine, whereas somebody like say Quinnon Mitchell 570 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 3: last year from a smaller school comes out and it's like, okay, 571 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:35,119 Speaker 3: he dominated his competition in college. Come to the Combine 572 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,480 Speaker 3: and the Senior Bowl. Go one on one with lad McConkie. Right, 573 00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 3: go to the combine. Show us what your measurements are 574 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 3: so we don't think that our eyes are being tricked 575 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,720 Speaker 3: on us because we're watching everybody move slower. So when 576 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 3: you're the when you're the fastest guy on a slow team, 577 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:54,199 Speaker 3: we want to know are you the fastest guy on 578 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:55,080 Speaker 3: a fast team? 579 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:56,879 Speaker 1: Correct, And I think it's just it just kind of 580 00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 1: gives you, like a it just gives you a better 581 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:01,640 Speaker 1: understanding of the athlete and the player and what they 582 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:02,359 Speaker 1: can and can't do. 583 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 2: And I know, those those thresholds. 584 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:07,359 Speaker 1: Everyone says, oh, like there's exceptions, right, But there's a 585 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 1: reason there are exceptions. It's because most of the people 586 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 1: fall into these bikes. Like, if you were to go 587 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,720 Speaker 1: around NFL, arm length for tackles is a really interesting 588 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:18,160 Speaker 1: one because it's almost across the board like thirty three 589 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,199 Speaker 1: and a half inches and up, Like, you're never going 590 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:21,960 Speaker 1: to find a tackle with thirty two inches, Like it's 591 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:24,919 Speaker 1: just too hard with the athleticism and speed of the 592 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:26,639 Speaker 1: of the ed dressers in the NFL. Like, so if 593 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:28,440 Speaker 1: you get a guy that you really like an evaluation, 594 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 1: but he's got thirty two inch arms, You're like, what 595 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:33,920 Speaker 1: is what is the likelihood that, even though he's a 596 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:35,959 Speaker 1: great athlete, that he's going to be super successful as 597 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,679 Speaker 1: a pass protector in the NFL? Probably not great, you know, 598 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:40,239 Speaker 1: So I got to kind of factor that in. Now, 599 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:42,160 Speaker 1: there's other factors, like let's say he's got tremendous foot 600 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 1: speed or tremendous size or tremendous, you know, balance and anchor, 601 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:47,439 Speaker 1: like those are things where we get more technical on 602 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 1: the evaluation and you say, okay, I'm comfortable with that, 603 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,879 Speaker 1: but oftentimes like I'm not. You know, it just depends. 604 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:55,960 Speaker 1: It depends on the guy for sure, and maybe. 605 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,200 Speaker 3: You're comfortable with that in a later round. So, right, 606 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 3: that's where you start assigning the ground grades, because your 607 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:07,120 Speaker 3: first round talents generally fit check all these all these boxes, 608 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 3: generally most of them. Where you're taking, like you said, 609 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,879 Speaker 3: you're taking swings at fastballs in the later rounds, you're 610 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:16,120 Speaker 3: betting on something like Okay, yeah he doesn't have this, 611 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 3: but he has the toughness, he has to compete and 612 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 3: he has he said, the foot speed. So we're okay 613 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,400 Speaker 3: with and we're taking that shot in the fourth round. 614 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 1: And we have a plan for him, right, we have 615 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,880 Speaker 1: a plan for like his his trajectory in the organization. 616 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:30,680 Speaker 1: We can try and tackle, move to guard, maybe you 617 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:32,760 Speaker 1: can play center, right, all those things, and maybe we 618 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 1: prefer him as a swing interior player. And that's there's 619 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 1: value there too. And so that's the other thing too 620 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 1: that I'm trying to incorporate into my draft grades this year. 621 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:41,360 Speaker 1: Is like, even though I don't see this guy could 622 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,359 Speaker 1: ever be like a starting caliber player, Like, there's tremendous 623 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 1: value to like Cornelius Lucas, right, a swing tackle that 624 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:49,399 Speaker 1: can play both sides and you don't really lose a 625 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 1: like there's not a big drop off. So there's also 626 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,400 Speaker 1: that like Cornelius Lucas when you look at his evaluation, 627 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:56,919 Speaker 1: long arms, big guy developed a lot in the NFL, 628 00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:58,600 Speaker 1: but the foot speed is a little bit lacking. But 629 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,840 Speaker 1: for his role perfect right, it fits exactly what you want. 630 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:04,399 Speaker 1: He knows both spots, he covers you up in in 631 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 1: a really nice way. So there's that element too. It's 632 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 1: like what level of player do you expect this person 633 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:11,639 Speaker 1: to be? And for the top flight guys, the first 634 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,439 Speaker 1: second round guys in the NFL draft, like they should 635 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:18,119 Speaker 1: have certain qualities of this, certain of these physical traits 636 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:21,199 Speaker 1: that you're like, Okay, good lock, and that's why they're there. 637 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,120 Speaker 1: That's one of the reasons why they're there. In conjunction 638 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 1: with the film they've put out. 639 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, so let's get a little bit into the weeds list. Okay, 640 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:29,400 Speaker 3: I'm going to go through position groups and I want 641 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:31,680 Speaker 3: you to give me one or two things that are 642 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:34,800 Speaker 3: a little more technical, a little more detailed, that I 643 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 3: want you to kind of teach me about and be like, 644 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:39,240 Speaker 3: all right, when you watch, for example, let's start with 645 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:41,440 Speaker 3: the O line. Since we're talking about when you watch o'lignman, 646 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,200 Speaker 3: I want you to look at this. Here's a technical 647 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:46,040 Speaker 3: thing that you can look look at that not a 648 00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:47,720 Speaker 3: lot of people pick up, but it's going to be 649 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 3: a good evaluator to how they're going to be at 650 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:50,359 Speaker 3: the next level. 651 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:52,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, so this is going to sound really, really nerdy. 652 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 1: So number one thing for offensive line is foot speeds, slash, 653 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:56,879 Speaker 1: just general athleticism. 654 00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:57,760 Speaker 2: That's number one thing. 655 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:00,639 Speaker 1: And that sounds crazy, But how do you track a 656 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:02,640 Speaker 1: linebacker at the second level? How do you get out 657 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:04,879 Speaker 1: on a screen? How do you pull? How do you 658 00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 1: cut off a backside three technique? Those kind of dynamic, 659 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:11,400 Speaker 1: explosive movements for the offensive line. I really value those 660 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,439 Speaker 1: because they show an athletic ceiling. So like Josh Shimmons 661 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 1: for Ohio State, I've only watched half of a game 662 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 1: that he's played in, but he is so tremendously athletic 663 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 1: that I'm like, he's like, he might be my best 664 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:23,919 Speaker 1: tackle in the class like even though he's coming off 665 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 1: an injury, because of the athletic movement skills. That is 666 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:29,879 Speaker 1: like maybe the number one thing, because you want your 667 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 1: Perna Suol, you want your Trent Williams, you want your 668 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:35,880 Speaker 1: you know, Tristan Worfs. They have to have to essential 669 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:37,880 Speaker 1: to have those movement skills, right, would. 670 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 3: You say then that the O line, you're less concerned 671 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 3: with their technical abilities, more concerned with their raw traits 672 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:47,960 Speaker 3: because just God only made so many guys like that. 673 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:49,479 Speaker 2: That is a that is a huge element. 674 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 1: But the next element of it is so this first 675 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:53,960 Speaker 1: thing and the second second thing are like one A, 676 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:57,640 Speaker 1: one B. So the second thing for me is core 677 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:02,959 Speaker 1: like mid section strength, so like hips adductor's strength. So 678 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,360 Speaker 1: when someone collisions you, what does your body do? Like 679 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 1: there are certain guys you watch them and they just 680 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,360 Speaker 1: kind of crumple or their legs get out from under them, 681 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:12,000 Speaker 1: or they get elevated out of that spot. And there's 682 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,800 Speaker 1: other guys where their ribcage states attached to their pelvis, 683 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 1: they lock in and they're just an excellent there's an 684 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:21,640 Speaker 1: excellent play strength there. So both of those things come together, right, 685 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 1: So when you're looking at Tristan Wurf's he is that 686 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:26,480 Speaker 1: to a t he moves well, he's locked in his 687 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:28,320 Speaker 1: mid sex and super tag. You try to bull him, 688 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:30,960 Speaker 1: there's never like a disassociation between his hips and his 689 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:33,800 Speaker 1: upper body. It's always locked in. Trent Williams, same thing 690 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 1: in a school, same thing. So those two things are 691 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:38,280 Speaker 1: the offensive line. If I see both of those things, 692 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:43,479 Speaker 1: I'm like, there, you are a special, special athlete at 693 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:47,440 Speaker 1: the position. And I'm like that, even if you're technically 694 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 1: not playing very well, I'm going to take a shot 695 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:54,600 Speaker 1: on you. So like, for example, let's take Evan Neil. 696 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,600 Speaker 1: He had a terrible disconnection of his chest and his 697 00:29:57,680 --> 00:29:59,400 Speaker 1: hips right. You bull them and he'd kind of lose 698 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:01,600 Speaker 1: it or he'd fall on the ground a lot. Bad 699 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:03,040 Speaker 1: foot speed, bad connection. 700 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:03,360 Speaker 2: Right. 701 00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 1: The guy who plays in Carolina now they're left tackle. 702 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:10,320 Speaker 1: I forget his name, but he had bad foot speed right. 703 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 1: And so those are things for elite left tackles that 704 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 1: I and right tackles that I'm like, these are the 705 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:17,160 Speaker 1: two things that I have to see. 706 00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:17,960 Speaker 2: Now. 707 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,560 Speaker 1: You can sometimes compensate with arm lane for whatever, but 708 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:22,960 Speaker 1: those are the things that if I don't see those 709 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 1: right away, I'm kind of like, eh, Like, I don't 710 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 1: know where you're gonna fit. Swing guy, rotational guy, maybe 711 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 1: a three year starter at some point in a pinch. 712 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 2: But that's what I'm looking at. 713 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 3: Let's jump to the other side of the ball and 714 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 3: do defensive tackles and then spin off with edges because 715 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,400 Speaker 3: you're a little bit different when you're trying to evaluate. 716 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:42,240 Speaker 3: So when you're looking at a d tackle, let's start 717 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 3: there first. What do you want to see? 718 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 1: So this is going to sound crazy, but I'm looking 719 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 1: for athletes, and it's a different type of athlete than 720 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 1: the offensive lineman. 721 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 2: Right. I want a guy who's really linearly explosive. Right. 722 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 1: You watch Mason Graham this year from Michigan. Man, he 723 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,560 Speaker 1: can pop you. He's got great hand usage, He's explosive 724 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:01,280 Speaker 1: from the hips. He can and take a base instead 725 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 1: of double team. He can raise and lower his pads 726 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:06,640 Speaker 1: really well, and that's something I think is really valuable. 727 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:08,920 Speaker 1: Like his running mate, I forget number seventy eight, the 728 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 1: defensive tackle that plays next to him, And as we go, 729 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 1: I'll get better with the names as we get into 730 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:15,080 Speaker 1: the draft stuff more. He plays really high, kind of 731 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:17,239 Speaker 1: gets pushed off the spot. He's a good player, but 732 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:20,360 Speaker 1: he doesn't have those elite traits the the explosion the 733 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:22,560 Speaker 1: hip the hip and the sink of the hips. So 734 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 1: those are two things with the tackles. And then I'm 735 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 1: going to add this other one in hand usage. Right, 736 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:29,560 Speaker 1: do they use their hands well? Because those guys I 737 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:32,200 Speaker 1: find that when they can use their hands can overcome 738 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:33,960 Speaker 1: some of those athletic deficiencies. 739 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:37,560 Speaker 3: So give me an example of good hand usage. So technique. 740 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, So, like for example, when you're looking for something 741 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:42,600 Speaker 1: like and you're and let's say a guy's getting a 742 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 1: double team, right, his ability to take and put his 743 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 1: hands directly on the best play of the guard, extend 744 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,680 Speaker 1: his elbows and sink his hips and stalemate the guard 745 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:56,640 Speaker 1: like that with length to then shed that block and 746 00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:57,360 Speaker 1: make the tackle. 747 00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:58,880 Speaker 2: That's exactly what you're looking for. 748 00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,360 Speaker 1: That's like, if you you see that a couple of times, 749 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:05,360 Speaker 1: you see that consistency, you see that reaction, you're going 750 00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:07,560 Speaker 1: to be pretty good. Like Jason last year had a 751 00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:10,120 Speaker 1: lot of those right hands flash boom, we're going to 752 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:12,400 Speaker 1: pursue of the football, sink ki, all those types of 753 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 1: things were on the table. And again that vertical penetration 754 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 1: that explosiveness from that defensive tackle. Now, edge is a 755 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:25,280 Speaker 1: totally different ball of wax to me. You're looking for athlete, athlete, athlete, 756 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:28,720 Speaker 1: athlete and production, like that's what you're looking for. And 757 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 1: there's certain positions that have a really high correlation here. 758 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:35,480 Speaker 1: If you test well at the combine and you had 759 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:38,040 Speaker 1: ten saxon college, you're probably going to be pretty good 760 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:40,040 Speaker 1: in the NFL, Like, you're probably gonna be pretty. 761 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:41,760 Speaker 3: What happens and we had this last year, I'm not 762 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,080 Speaker 3: going to say exactly who you have someone that tests 763 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:46,080 Speaker 3: off the charts, but no production. 764 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,200 Speaker 1: That's something that always makes me a little bit nervous, right, 765 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 1: I think you look at there's been a couple of 766 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:53,680 Speaker 1: guys that have hit from this, like Gray up in 767 00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:56,080 Speaker 1: Green Bay is that his name? The number fifty two 768 00:32:56,120 --> 00:33:00,320 Speaker 1: in Green Bay was like this. There's been people that 769 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,080 Speaker 1: have done this over the course of the NFL, and 770 00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:04,600 Speaker 1: they do find a way after like three or four 771 00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:06,640 Speaker 1: years to hit, right, So there is a little bit 772 00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:08,120 Speaker 1: of a own way, there's a little bit of precedent. 773 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 1: Is it worth taking a shot on? Yes, but you 774 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,440 Speaker 1: have to understand that it's a developmental window. When you 775 00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:18,600 Speaker 1: see the guy who's like a lot too. Last year, right, 776 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:21,720 Speaker 1: he tested fine and he was crazy productive in college, 777 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:23,880 Speaker 1: Like he will be fine. I think he had seven 778 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 1: sacks this year. Like that was kind of right where 779 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 1: I thought he'd be. I thought, maybe you get to ten. 780 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:29,600 Speaker 1: But there's a little bit of variance in sacks production. 781 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:32,160 Speaker 1: But that's exactly what you thought from him, right, Jared 782 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,240 Speaker 1: Versus is a great example. Right, I was a little 783 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:36,880 Speaker 1: bit worried about the athlete, but the production was so 784 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:39,720 Speaker 1: good his entire time at Florida State. And you're like, 785 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:42,960 Speaker 1: I should have weighed that more, probably based on his 786 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,600 Speaker 1: athletic profile, which is great at the combine. So with 787 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:47,840 Speaker 1: that position, to me, it's one of the easier positions 788 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:53,960 Speaker 1: because it's like athlete production, check check, you're gonna be fine, right, all. 789 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,160 Speaker 3: Right, let's stay on the defensive side here and go 790 00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:00,160 Speaker 3: to linebacker. Probably you said last year at several times 791 00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:02,719 Speaker 3: the hardest one for you to evaluate in some In 792 00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:03,480 Speaker 3: some ways. 793 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:08,680 Speaker 1: It's really hard because it's multi factorial. Right, you need 794 00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:10,840 Speaker 1: to have a physicality, you need to have an intelligence. 795 00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:12,640 Speaker 1: It's kind of like quarterback of the defense. I know 796 00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:15,480 Speaker 1: that's like probably a stereotypic answer, but It's like quarterback 797 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:17,399 Speaker 1: for the defense, right. You have to know run fits, 798 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:18,680 Speaker 1: you have to get guys lined up, you have to 799 00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:20,560 Speaker 1: show an intelligence, and you have to do a lot 800 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:23,080 Speaker 1: of stuff. And so for me, the number one that's 801 00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:26,000 Speaker 1: gonna sound crazy, The number one thing for linebackers. 802 00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:26,640 Speaker 2: Is coverage skills. 803 00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:28,759 Speaker 1: You have to be able to cover because the way 804 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:33,279 Speaker 1: the NFL game is going, because that implies movement skills. Right, 805 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:34,880 Speaker 1: So if I can match up with the tight end 806 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:37,120 Speaker 1: and cover them and man and man situations, I'm gonna 807 00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:38,120 Speaker 1: be on the field more. And you look at the 808 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:40,040 Speaker 1: guys who've been the best the last couple of years. 809 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:44,000 Speaker 1: Your Fred Warner's, your Luke Keikley's, your Levante David's, they 810 00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:48,240 Speaker 1: all have that coverage instinct. Now if you see that instinct, 811 00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:52,520 Speaker 1: that coverage ability apply to a physicality also, oh man, 812 00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:53,680 Speaker 1: you got yourself one, right. 813 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:54,759 Speaker 2: And again, you kind of. 814 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:58,440 Speaker 1: Hope that because of those two traits, they have that 815 00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:01,280 Speaker 1: kind of killer instinct that wishing to play the position 816 00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:02,919 Speaker 1: of middle linebacker at the NFL level. 817 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:03,160 Speaker 2: Right. 818 00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:05,799 Speaker 1: But that's a hard one for me because I don't know. 819 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:07,520 Speaker 1: I haven't sat in a meeting with them, I haven't 820 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:09,759 Speaker 1: talked with them. I don't know they're but like I 821 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:12,279 Speaker 1: love when I see a linebacker that I like that 822 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:14,719 Speaker 1: has covered a tight end. He's fit a full back 823 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:16,840 Speaker 1: or he's fit a guard, and all of a sudden, 824 00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:20,120 Speaker 1: you see you getting empty. The offense does and he 825 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:22,040 Speaker 1: makes an empty check because I'm like, oh, this guy's 826 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:24,440 Speaker 1: locked in. Not every college linebacker does that, but when 827 00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:26,960 Speaker 1: you see that, that's kind of like, Oh, that's a 828 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:28,520 Speaker 1: big that's a big plus for me. 829 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:30,720 Speaker 3: What about defensive bats, Oh. 830 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:33,880 Speaker 1: My gosh, defensive backs, it's hard, man, this is this. 831 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,600 Speaker 1: Linebackers are the hardest, but defensive backs, in my opinion, 832 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,440 Speaker 1: have the most variance because they're so scheme dependent. So 833 00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:42,000 Speaker 1: that was one of the things about Quinny and Mitchell 834 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,360 Speaker 1: that was tough because like at Toledo, like he didn't 835 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:46,759 Speaker 1: do a lot of like man coverage, a lot of 836 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:48,839 Speaker 1: zone and so when I see a cornerback, I want 837 00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:51,640 Speaker 1: to see him basically play man coverage, like that's what 838 00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:53,600 Speaker 1: I want to do. And it helps if you had 839 00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:57,719 Speaker 1: zone instincts, but I need to see you kind of run, react, 840 00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,920 Speaker 1: anticipate route concepts because it shows that you can do 841 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:02,440 Speaker 1: some stuff in z oonne I think a good example 842 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:04,640 Speaker 1: that was Sauce Gardner, like they had a man and 843 00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:07,200 Speaker 1: man situations versus Alabama, Right, and you're like, Okay, this 844 00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:08,440 Speaker 1: is good, this is good. 845 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:09,560 Speaker 2: And the other thing. 846 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:13,440 Speaker 1: About corners, I need to see them tackle. I need 847 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,440 Speaker 1: to see them be playman coverage and be physical as 848 00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:18,680 Speaker 1: all outdoors. And people are like, why are they're corners? 849 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:21,960 Speaker 1: That is the position in the NFL where you have 850 00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:25,200 Speaker 1: to tackle. Every run is being forced to you. 851 00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, you've said that multiple times. You've been in offenses 852 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:30,719 Speaker 3: where they say, yeah, our job is to get the 853 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:32,319 Speaker 3: running back on your dB. 854 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:32,839 Speaker 2: Yeah. 855 00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:36,000 Speaker 1: And you know Fred and Fred Smoot and I differ 856 00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:37,359 Speaker 1: in this. He's like, I want to see him cover 857 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:41,000 Speaker 1: their coverage players, but I've seen so many guys fail 858 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,279 Speaker 1: because they don't have that dog, that dog and him 859 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:45,840 Speaker 1: to come up and make a tackle. And so for me, 860 00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:48,480 Speaker 1: it's man coverage and can you make a tackle in 861 00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:49,000 Speaker 1: the run game? 862 00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:51,799 Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, it's It's definitely the hardest one. But this 863 00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:56,000 Speaker 3: is also why the process, like the Combine's great, right, 864 00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:58,560 Speaker 3: This is why the Senior Bowl and the Shrine Bowl 865 00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:00,879 Speaker 3: are good, right, because you get a player like quin Yon, 866 00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:03,640 Speaker 3: who last year was a standout at the senior role 867 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:07,600 Speaker 3: because everybody wanted to see him against better competition and 868 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,480 Speaker 3: out of that zone. And when he was, he shined. 869 00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:12,880 Speaker 3: Right then it's like, okay, that checks the box that 870 00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:15,400 Speaker 3: I couldn't see on film, couldn't see in that evaluation. 871 00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:18,080 Speaker 3: Now I got it here all right. So DB's have 872 00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:20,960 Speaker 3: to cover the wide receivers, and it seems like there 873 00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:24,279 Speaker 3: is always a ton of good wide receivers coming out 874 00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:27,920 Speaker 3: every year. So what are you looking for to differentiate 875 00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:32,280 Speaker 3: a top round the first round, second round wide receiver 876 00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:34,319 Speaker 3: and the guys who want to take flyers on maybe 877 00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:35,040 Speaker 3: later rounds. 878 00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:35,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, so. 879 00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:40,719 Speaker 1: Flyers later are size speed guys for me, like take 880 00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,799 Speaker 1: those guys later. If you're a like Slad McConkie, to me, 881 00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:45,920 Speaker 1: is maybe perfect. Like last year, I remember turning on 882 00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:48,279 Speaker 1: the film with Georgia and being like you will be 883 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:50,560 Speaker 1: a great NFL pro Like that was the first Like 884 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:53,840 Speaker 1: I watched five of his targets and was like, you 885 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,359 Speaker 1: got it? And so what is that it? It is 886 00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:01,720 Speaker 1: understanding of defensive leverages. How to get to a base 887 00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:05,080 Speaker 1: like double stick or release break that DB's leverage like 888 00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:06,400 Speaker 1: get to where you're not supposed to be in the 889 00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:11,560 Speaker 1: defensive coverage, work your stems right, vertical stem, angled stem 890 00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:13,800 Speaker 1: to you to set up your route to create space 891 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:17,799 Speaker 1: for yourself, and not everyone understands it. Not everyone gets it. 892 00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:21,240 Speaker 1: And when you see that, it's like it's like big 893 00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:24,640 Speaker 1: flashing lights. You're like, yes, this is it, this is 894 00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:26,920 Speaker 1: the one, and it's the reason you see you know, 895 00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:30,560 Speaker 1: like DK metcalf kind of struggle like at times because 896 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,120 Speaker 1: he doesn't have that route running nuance. He's just horsepower 897 00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:35,400 Speaker 1: and there's a time and place for that, right, But 898 00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:38,319 Speaker 1: there's a reason there's like one Dk Metcalf right, and 899 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:41,680 Speaker 1: there's a bunch of guys like you know, Malik Neighbors 900 00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:44,080 Speaker 1: or Lad McConkey or these guys that have these tremendous 901 00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:46,400 Speaker 1: route running nuance to their game. And so to me, 902 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:49,760 Speaker 1: if you can run fast and you have that ability 903 00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:52,680 Speaker 1: like I am your best friend as a as a guy, 904 00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:55,200 Speaker 1: and obviously catching the football, if you fight the football, 905 00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:57,920 Speaker 1: I'm going to really watch a lot of film on 906 00:38:57,960 --> 00:38:59,399 Speaker 1: you because I want to make sure you can catch 907 00:38:59,440 --> 00:38:59,799 Speaker 1: the ball. 908 00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,680 Speaker 3: Yeah. I was actually going to say that a big one. 909 00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:05,600 Speaker 3: Don't underestimate it, guy catches the ball. The other one 910 00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:08,680 Speaker 3: I would say is like watch the routes where they 911 00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:12,440 Speaker 3: don't get the ball or not. Is he running hard? 912 00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:15,200 Speaker 3: Is he trying to work to get the other guy open? 913 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:17,840 Speaker 3: Is it like if it's a run play, is he 914 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:20,040 Speaker 3: running up to try and block? Like that's going to 915 00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:23,319 Speaker 3: tell you how much they're going to That's the one too. 916 00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:25,799 Speaker 3: That's good competitiveness. How you talked to earlier, that's really 917 00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:28,680 Speaker 3: going to play into it. Yeah, I think, all right, 918 00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:31,520 Speaker 3: let's speed through these here. Running backs. 919 00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:34,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, running backs are interesting to me because it's hard, 920 00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:37,880 Speaker 1: like because they're usually the best football player like in 921 00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,000 Speaker 1: high school and so they're the best one of the 922 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:42,279 Speaker 1: better football players in college meeting. They can block, they 923 00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:44,480 Speaker 1: can tackle. So for me, it's like I want to 924 00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:48,480 Speaker 1: see the highway speed. Stuff's speed specifically for running back 925 00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:51,720 Speaker 1: and then toughness and so what is toughness expressed? 926 00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:54,719 Speaker 2: As it's like do I pick up a blitz? Like? 927 00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:56,719 Speaker 1: How do I finish runs? Like how do I run 928 00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:59,080 Speaker 1: short yardage? Do I step out of bounds when I 929 00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:01,440 Speaker 1: don't have to? Or do I finish and punish the defender? 930 00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:03,840 Speaker 1: Another one for me in running backs, it's big is 931 00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:05,960 Speaker 1: just vision, Like I was watching a running back, the 932 00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:06,680 Speaker 1: running back from. 933 00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:07,440 Speaker 2: Michigan or Edwards. 934 00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:10,640 Speaker 1: And if the hole wasn't there, the run wasn't there 935 00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:12,560 Speaker 1: for him, then you watch a couple other guys and 936 00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:14,960 Speaker 1: you're like, oh, there's a little crease here. I can 937 00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:16,359 Speaker 1: put his foot in the ground and kind of sneak 938 00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:18,360 Speaker 1: through here. Oh it's not blocked. Well, he's going to 939 00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:20,440 Speaker 1: get skinny, cram his head in there. We've got a 940 00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:22,160 Speaker 1: three yard gain on something that should have been a 941 00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:26,400 Speaker 1: tackle for one, Right, how do you maximize the blocking surface? 942 00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:28,839 Speaker 1: And so highway speed is obviously a big deal, right, 943 00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:32,320 Speaker 1: Dereck Henry's your sake one Barcleay's Christian McCaffrey to a 944 00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:35,600 Speaker 1: certain extent, right, But the vision and the toughness for 945 00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:36,920 Speaker 1: a back, vision and toughness. 946 00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:39,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, And man, I was going to say the same thing, 947 00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:41,080 Speaker 3: logan to bounce off of that. Like one of the 948 00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:43,480 Speaker 3: things I try and look at is does the running 949 00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:44,399 Speaker 3: back bounce too early? 950 00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:44,960 Speaker 2: Right? 951 00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:46,919 Speaker 3: Is there a hole opening up? Just be a little 952 00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:49,640 Speaker 3: patient or just hit this hole hard and you got 953 00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:52,200 Speaker 3: a four yard run instead of I'm trying to bounce 954 00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:54,080 Speaker 3: out and now everybody's conversion on me. It's a two 955 00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:56,560 Speaker 3: yard loss because I just don't want to hit that 956 00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:58,520 Speaker 3: hole right now, right, Like I just don't want to 957 00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:01,359 Speaker 3: dive in there. So yeah, that goes right along with it, 958 00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:05,160 Speaker 3: all right, this is your favorite. You were a tight 959 00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:07,080 Speaker 3: end for ten years in the NFL. What are you 960 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:09,640 Speaker 3: looking for from a tight end in college? And there 961 00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:10,279 Speaker 3: are some good ones. 962 00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:12,640 Speaker 1: This one's frustrating for me because it's changed a lot 963 00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:15,440 Speaker 1: since I started doing this, and so now it's like 964 00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:19,920 Speaker 1: it's athletes, it's measurables, like this is a defensive line 965 00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:22,560 Speaker 1: type of position, and so like I had a conversation 966 00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:24,160 Speaker 1: with somebody at the Combat a couple of years ago 967 00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:28,160 Speaker 1: about the last twenty starting tight ends. So this was 968 00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:31,200 Speaker 1: over a course, like a fifteen year period. All were 969 00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:35,080 Speaker 1: like greens basically, which means they hit height, weight, speed, 970 00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:38,600 Speaker 1: arm length metric all greens, right, And there's only been 971 00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:40,759 Speaker 1: two starting players who have not met that metric who 972 00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:42,280 Speaker 1: started over the last fifteen years. 973 00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:43,920 Speaker 2: I was one of them. I started a couple of 974 00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:44,480 Speaker 2: games here right. 975 00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:44,839 Speaker 3: Look at you. 976 00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:48,799 Speaker 1: Yeah, So there for that position. If you do not 977 00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:52,280 Speaker 1: hit the measurables, big red flag right away, right, because 978 00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:54,840 Speaker 1: what do you do? What's your role? And I think 979 00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:56,640 Speaker 1: there's a couple things here, right, You're looking for two 980 00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:59,520 Speaker 1: different types of players. You're looking for that you know Lovelnd, 981 00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:02,440 Speaker 1: that travel Kelsey guy and catch football be a mismatch weapon. 982 00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:04,839 Speaker 1: That's one skill set. You're also looking for a guy 983 00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:06,640 Speaker 1: that can block in line like a John Bates, and 984 00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:09,520 Speaker 1: both those things have value both teams need. Most teams 985 00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:12,520 Speaker 1: in the NFL need both of those players. Obviously, the 986 00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:15,279 Speaker 1: offensive line type guy, the John Baits type guy, is 987 00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:18,160 Speaker 1: going to be bigger, heavier. You need to see a 988 00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,160 Speaker 1: tremendous amount of technical proficiency and a tremendous amount of 989 00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:22,880 Speaker 1: grit just toughness. 990 00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:26,839 Speaker 3: Do you see a combination of those often in tight 991 00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:30,000 Speaker 3: end anymore where they're gonna block and they're gonna get 992 00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:32,920 Speaker 3: open like how a Kelsey would or are teams out 993 00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:35,040 Speaker 3: just going you know what I want? I want one 994 00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:36,560 Speaker 3: that's more of a blocker, one that's more of a 995 00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:37,240 Speaker 3: route runner. 996 00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:39,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say, yeah, you're see a little and 997 00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:40,879 Speaker 1: obviously you got to do both, like I think zach Ertz, 998 00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:42,319 Speaker 1: to his credit this year, has done a great job 999 00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:44,279 Speaker 1: of kind of embracing the blocking role a little bit. 1000 00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:46,919 Speaker 1: So with like Loveland, for example, he's like six ' five, 1001 00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:48,960 Speaker 1: I want to say he's like two forty three. It's 1002 00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:51,319 Speaker 1: not a big guy, but he's tough, like he'll throw 1003 00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:53,680 Speaker 1: his face in there, he'll block a defensive end. You 1004 00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:57,080 Speaker 1: don't want that matchup all the time, but he's tough 1005 00:42:57,200 --> 00:42:58,200 Speaker 1: enough to get that done. 1006 00:42:58,239 --> 00:42:58,759 Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying. 1007 00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:00,520 Speaker 1: He's physical enough to get that guy done. And then 1008 00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:02,200 Speaker 1: you got a guy like Warren from pen Sake. What's 1009 00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:05,200 Speaker 1: his first name is a ty Warn Tyler Warren Tyler Warren. Yeah, 1010 00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:07,920 Speaker 1: who can kind of do both. He's a little stiff 1011 00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:09,480 Speaker 1: in the hips and with tight ends. This is something 1012 00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:12,040 Speaker 1: that I have talked to probably fifteen tight end coach 1013 00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:14,080 Speaker 1: in the NFL. If you see stiffness in the hips 1014 00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:17,960 Speaker 1: or ankles, huge red flag, huge red flag for red 1015 00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:20,280 Speaker 1: coach for tight end coaches because they think it's indicative 1016 00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:23,000 Speaker 1: of injury. Now, that could be like an old wives tale, 1017 00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:26,840 Speaker 1: but for me, it's athlete measurables, right, college production? And 1018 00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:30,520 Speaker 1: then their role in your team, right, are you a blocker? 1019 00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:32,520 Speaker 2: Are you a pass catcher? Because what are we going 1020 00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:32,759 Speaker 2: to do? 1021 00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:35,880 Speaker 3: Yeah? All right? The last one, most important one. 1022 00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:38,160 Speaker 2: I was cussed because I saw this on here. 1023 00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:44,600 Speaker 3: Quarterback look for quarterback to be fair, commanders were not 1024 00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:47,960 Speaker 3: in the market quarterback. But but I will say this, 1025 00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:53,480 Speaker 3: every team needs depth at quarterback, and so I wouldn't 1026 00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:56,880 Speaker 3: be surprised if any team drafts a quarterback at some 1027 00:43:57,080 --> 00:43:59,239 Speaker 3: point or another. Now, this doesn't mean they'll be a 1028 00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:03,120 Speaker 3: starter for that, but almost every team, and quarterbacks are 1029 00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:05,360 Speaker 3: so expensive now, they're like, if you can get a 1030 00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:08,560 Speaker 3: backup quarterback when a rookie deal, that's advantageous for you. 1031 00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:12,160 Speaker 3: So my point, I guess is like, we're commanders. We 1032 00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:14,279 Speaker 3: clearly have Jade and Daniels. We are not in the 1033 00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:16,759 Speaker 3: market for a quarterback. But it's still important to look 1034 00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:18,880 Speaker 3: at these guys, especially in the later round. So what 1035 00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:19,640 Speaker 3: are you looking for? 1036 00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:23,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, this one is tough because my I've grown up 1037 00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:24,879 Speaker 1: a lot in this category. So I kind of want 1038 00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:26,640 Speaker 1: to say like twelve things, but I'm trying to keep 1039 00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:30,560 Speaker 1: it to two. One is a consistency, right, A consistency 1040 00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:33,560 Speaker 1: with your footwork, a consistency with your arm mechanics. And 1041 00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:36,360 Speaker 1: everyone says, well, now, like Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson, 1042 00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:38,520 Speaker 1: they're making all these off schedule throws, but when you 1043 00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:41,840 Speaker 1: watch them, there's a consistency with their lower body mechanics 1044 00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:44,640 Speaker 1: and their upper body mechanics, even when they're vacating the pocket, 1045 00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:47,840 Speaker 1: there's a consistency there, right, And that consistency means that 1046 00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:51,520 Speaker 1: I can it leads, It tends to lead to accuracy, right, 1047 00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:55,399 Speaker 1: and good ball placement down the field. That and then 1048 00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:59,120 Speaker 1: what kind of student are you? You have to be 1049 00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:01,719 Speaker 1: a great star student of the game. You have to 1050 00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:03,839 Speaker 1: constantly be learning. You have to constantly be the first one. 1051 00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:05,799 Speaker 1: And you have that when I hear of that about 1052 00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:08,320 Speaker 1: a quarterback, and most schools will kind of just volunteer 1053 00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:10,719 Speaker 1: that like kind of you know, because they want them 1054 00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:11,360 Speaker 1: to get drafted. 1055 00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:15,520 Speaker 2: But that thing is huge. And then the other element. 1056 00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:18,080 Speaker 1: Is how do you process stuff? How do you process 1057 00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:20,680 Speaker 1: the defense? Because it's not always a stagnant picture, and 1058 00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:23,440 Speaker 1: especially in the NFL, because the hashes are tighter, defenses 1059 00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:26,279 Speaker 1: can decide stuff longer. The windows are smaller, right, because 1060 00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:29,000 Speaker 1: you don't have this big vacant hash to the left 1061 00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:32,800 Speaker 1: of the field. I'm always like, how do you process information, 1062 00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:37,319 Speaker 1: consistency of mechanics, consistency of play, just in general, and 1063 00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:41,400 Speaker 1: then student and this, and we could I could have 1064 00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:43,480 Speaker 1: a list of twenty things that I'm looking at here, 1065 00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:46,080 Speaker 1: but those are probably a push those to the top. 1066 00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:49,600 Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean with quarterback, I feel like you're constantly 1067 00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:55,080 Speaker 3: looking for like, uh, like a hypocrite in a way. 1068 00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:57,160 Speaker 3: And what I mean by that is you want someone 1069 00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:01,560 Speaker 3: that's a huge nerd, giant nerd, loves to study, loves 1070 00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:04,680 Speaker 3: everything about football, can't get enough of football, but also 1071 00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:07,000 Speaker 3: has that dog in him. He's going to go out, 1072 00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:08,640 Speaker 3: he's going to take kids, he's going to step in 1073 00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:11,000 Speaker 3: the throads, he's going to compete, and he's going to 1074 00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:14,040 Speaker 3: put the team on his back, like emotionally sometimes and 1075 00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:15,399 Speaker 3: like you need both of those. 1076 00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:17,279 Speaker 2: Did you come up with that right now? Yeah? Right now? 1077 00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:19,400 Speaker 2: That was great? Yeah, because that's exactly what you're looking for. 1078 00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:19,920 Speaker 2: You're looking for. 1079 00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:22,560 Speaker 1: You're looking for a paradox, right, You're looking for that's 1080 00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:27,520 Speaker 1: better than a charismatic, dynamic leader who's also a nerd, 1081 00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:29,680 Speaker 1: who's also can relate to everybody on the team, but 1082 00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:31,879 Speaker 1: it is also a little bit of above everybody unicorns. 1083 00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:34,440 Speaker 1: It's a weird, it's a weird position to evaluate, and 1084 00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:38,040 Speaker 1: it's that one yes and no. For me, there's a 1085 00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:40,680 Speaker 1: lot of no's, a lot of no's, and when you 1086 00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:44,200 Speaker 1: find a yes, you're like, oh, oh oh, this is exciting. 1087 00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:46,040 Speaker 2: This is what is this? What's happ Yeah? 1088 00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:48,279 Speaker 3: Fred says a lot of things, but one of the 1089 00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:51,239 Speaker 3: things that I do like that he says often is 1090 00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:53,560 Speaker 3: there are nine billion people in the world and we 1091 00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:55,920 Speaker 3: can't find thirty two of them to play quarterback at 1092 00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:59,000 Speaker 3: a high level. And he's right about it. It's the 1093 00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:00,719 Speaker 3: unicorn that you have to fin and I guess what, We 1094 00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:01,720 Speaker 3: got one here and watch. 1095 00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:03,319 Speaker 2: Dude, how fun has this been? Time? 1096 00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:04,240 Speaker 3: It's been amazing. 1097 00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:06,759 Speaker 1: It's been fun talking on this show, take it to 1098 00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:09,720 Speaker 1: the draft last year and going through so much film 1099 00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:12,080 Speaker 1: of him and all these other guys, and to see 1100 00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:15,439 Speaker 1: all of those questions get answered and to see all 1101 00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:18,680 Speaker 1: of those things we loved about him be even better here. 1102 00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:20,120 Speaker 2: It was just it's just been. 1103 00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:23,960 Speaker 1: A tremendous journey and really cool to watch from last 1104 00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:26,640 Speaker 1: year's episodes all that stuff, and to be here making 1105 00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:27,480 Speaker 1: a push in the playoffs. 1106 00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:31,560 Speaker 3: It's so exciting. And yeah, so we're not going to 1107 00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:33,399 Speaker 3: come back until we win the Super Bowl. I think 1108 00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:35,840 Speaker 3: so like this is our last episode until then. But 1109 00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:38,839 Speaker 3: if we happen to not make it, which I think 1110 00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:41,839 Speaker 3: probability is low that we don't make the super Bowl. 1111 00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:43,640 Speaker 3: Now with Jade and Daniels on it and the Super Bowl. 1112 00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:47,799 Speaker 3: KP's currently wearing. But if we were to come back 1113 00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:49,600 Speaker 3: before the super Bowl, the Senior Bowl is a week 1114 00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:52,239 Speaker 3: before that. We will be in Mobile, Alabama. We will 1115 00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:54,400 Speaker 3: do a podcast every day after every practice of the 1116 00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:57,240 Speaker 3: Senior Bowl. Same thing. Once we get to the Combine, 1117 00:47:57,280 --> 00:47:59,520 Speaker 3: we'll break down the combine and all that, and then 1118 00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:01,840 Speaker 3: we'll have Draft Night for you to and we'll do something, 1119 00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:08,200 Speaker 3: if not weekly, regular in between those things too, leading 1120 00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:09,920 Speaker 3: you all the way up to their draft. So if 1121 00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:13,840 Speaker 3: you're a fan of the Commanders, man, just enjoy it. 1122 00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:15,640 Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, soak it in. I've been a fan 1123 00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:18,160 Speaker 3: for so long of this team and it feels amazing. 1124 00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:21,920 Speaker 3: And if you're not, you'll still get great content in 1125 00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:24,680 Speaker 3: this podcast, I promise you. As we move forward, we'll 1126 00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:28,000 Speaker 3: even talk about the top quarterbacks at some point, for like, 1127 00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:30,080 Speaker 3: obviously we have nothing to do with them, but they're hot, 1128 00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:32,360 Speaker 3: as we'll talk about them. Maybe they go to a 1129 00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:40,120 Speaker 3: divisional ride, right, so you'll get Logan's evaluations when these 1130 00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:42,360 Speaker 3: guys moving forward, Like I said, we're gonna get guys 1131 00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:45,600 Speaker 3: like Field Yates, Trevor Sika, m'connor, Rodgers, Matthew Berry we 1132 00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:47,839 Speaker 3: had on last year as well. Like, we will get 1133 00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:49,799 Speaker 3: these guys again. I've already reached out, some of them 1134 00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:51,799 Speaker 3: have already said yes, and I know the other guys will. 1135 00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:55,319 Speaker 3: We see them all the time at these events. So yeah, 1136 00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:59,080 Speaker 3: please like, subscribe, turn on net notuification. We'll be back 1137 00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:01,279 Speaker 3: after the host an a Lombardi Trophy in DC. 1138 00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:07,440 Speaker 2: Pretty sick. Mm hmmm mm hmm