WEBVTT - Part Two: Joe Arpaio: America's Favorite Concentration Camp Operator 0:00:05.640 --> 0:00:10.480 You want me to do it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that 0:00:10.600 --> 0:00:13.360 was good. That was good. You're natural, You're natural, and 0:00:13.440 --> 0:00:17.959 this is behind the bastard. Thank you, Sophie. I didn't 0:00:18.000 --> 0:00:24.400 need to hear that today. But podcast Bad People, where 0:00:24.440 --> 0:00:27.440 I get shown up at my only talent A totally 0:00:27.640 --> 0:00:34.000 introducing a podcast by today's guest, no Noah shactman of 0:00:34.080 --> 0:00:37.600 the Daily Beast soon to be of Rolling Stone. Noah, 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:39.640 how how how was life changed for you in the 0:00:39.720 --> 0:00:42.320 last I don't know, seven minutes since we concluded part one. 0:00:43.320 --> 0:00:46.560 I ate a lot of meat with my hands. Oh, 0:00:46.640 --> 0:00:50.000 good hand meat. Yeah, everybody's good hand meat. Yeah yeah, 0:00:50.440 --> 0:00:55.560 now it was my wife brought back some leftovers which 0:00:55.600 --> 0:01:01.600 I shoved into my face. It was delicious. Yeah, you 0:01:01.640 --> 0:01:04.200 weigh a handmade. I drank a bunch of creed um. 0:01:04.640 --> 0:01:09.080 We're both ready to kick off and talk about Sheriff 0:01:09.200 --> 0:01:12.720 Joe R. Pio in the New Millennium. Noah, very exciting, 0:01:13.319 --> 0:01:17.840 very exciting. So Joe started off the twenty one century 0:01:18.040 --> 0:01:22.040 with a bang. In two thousand, he launched his jail Cam, 0:01:22.319 --> 0:01:25.600 one of the very first live stream websites, with the 0:01:25.640 --> 0:01:28.400 stated hope that people would see how horrible his jails 0:01:28.400 --> 0:01:33.520 were and thus avoid committing crimes. Now, why he did it. 0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:38.639 He did it as a publicity stunt. He is ahead 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:40.760 of the eight ball on this one. You know, if 0:01:40.800 --> 0:01:43.880 you're live streaming in two thousand, you are on the 0:01:43.959 --> 0:01:51.760 ground floor. You know, that's about earlier, Mr Beast. Yeah. 0:01:51.800 --> 0:01:55.280 So by this point, Joe's deputies had already blatantly entrapped 0:01:55.280 --> 0:01:57.720 at least one person. And the degree to which he 0:01:57.800 --> 0:02:01.520 actually saw jail cam as a provincial strategy is debatable. 0:02:02.080 --> 0:02:04.280 I might argue that this was an early example of 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:08.120 the cruelty is the point style logic and mass American politics. 0:02:08.160 --> 0:02:11.280 You know, Uh, the cameras were not there to scare criminals. 0:02:11.280 --> 0:02:13.959 They were there to entertain Americans who wanted to see 0:02:14.000 --> 0:02:16.679 people they had other rised. Joe knew this, and he 0:02:16.760 --> 0:02:20.040 knew that providing suffering porn to the masses was could 0:02:20.040 --> 0:02:22.600 be a key part of his continued relevance. The first 0:02:22.680 --> 0:02:25.639 day his jail cams went online, more than three million 0:02:25.680 --> 0:02:29.079 people tried to visit. Now, if you drop a video 0:02:29.200 --> 0:02:31.639 today that gets three million views in its first day, 0:02:31.720 --> 0:02:35.799 that's not bad in one. No, like this is two thousand, 0:02:36.000 --> 0:02:39.720 Like that's huge trip. That's the entire internet. That's the 0:02:39.760 --> 0:02:42.840 whole internet, and it's the website goes down immediately. It 0:02:42.840 --> 0:02:44.280 takes them a long time to be able to like 0:02:44.400 --> 0:02:48.880 handle that kind of strain. Initially, four cameras made up 0:02:48.880 --> 0:02:51.840 the jail Cam program, which allowed visitors to view detainees 0:02:51.880 --> 0:02:54.560 being led into jail, being fingerprinted, and being taken to 0:02:54.560 --> 0:02:58.360 their holding areas. Quite frustratingly, Joe claims that a private 0:02:58.400 --> 0:03:00.480 company paid for the project, and I have not found 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:03.480 more information on who that was. In an interview with 0:03:03.520 --> 0:03:06.040 The New York Times shortly after the cameras were installed, 0:03:06.120 --> 0:03:08.639 Joe claimed, we get hundreds of emails from all over 0:03:08.680 --> 0:03:11.800 the world and love it and feel it's a great deterrent. 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:14.440 When people pointed out that the folks shown on his 0:03:14.560 --> 0:03:17.720 cameras were all innocent until proven guilty, he actually had 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:22.560 a pretty smart response. Unfortunately, quote Sheriff our Pio compares 0:03:22.600 --> 0:03:25.760 the unfiltered viewing with news photographs of crime suspects or 0:03:25.800 --> 0:03:28.800 even the televised chase involving O. J. Simpson. He wasn't 0:03:28.800 --> 0:03:31.200 even arrested yet. The sheriff said, what's wrong with it? 0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:35.080 In a jail which is fucked up moral object, but 0:03:35.200 --> 0:03:38.800 is a good response, like a smart you know, the 0:03:38.960 --> 0:03:41.760 back to the three million for a second. Maybe that's 0:03:41.800 --> 0:03:43.400 just I mean, first of all, who knows if that 0:03:43.520 --> 0:03:45.920 figure is true? And secondly, maybe you just got like 0:03:45.960 --> 0:03:50.360 a a denial of service attack. He got something awful 0:03:50.440 --> 0:03:53.920 went after it. Yeah, Like, I'm sorry, I don't think 0:03:53.960 --> 0:03:57.440 like the entirety of the two thousand Internet was like 0:03:57.640 --> 0:03:59.920 let me, I mean I was on the Internet and 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:02.840 two thousand. Yeah. Same, You know, I don't think the 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:05.600 entirety of the two thousand Internet was like let me 0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:09.680 check out this suffering form. That just doesn't seem true. 0:04:09.960 --> 0:04:13.040 It gets that number gets reported by a lot of 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:15.800 news agencies covering him at the time, but I think 0:04:15.840 --> 0:04:19.839 they are relying on him for those numbers. Um, I 0:04:19.920 --> 0:04:21.840 have no way of but I have I also have 0:04:21.880 --> 0:04:24.600 no way of verifying what the real numbers were. It 0:04:24.640 --> 0:04:29.080 does seem to have been popular, um and will well, 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:31.440 I'll explain the degree to which it was popular in 0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:34.320 just a second here. But yeah, I think you're right. Obviously, 0:04:34.560 --> 0:04:37.239 when you're only getting your only source for the number 0:04:37.279 --> 0:04:39.720 is Joe R. Pio, you have to question that source. 0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:42.320 And again, it's kind of frustrating the degree to which 0:04:42.400 --> 0:04:44.919 a lot of people don't. That said, if you're writing 0:04:44.920 --> 0:04:46.520 about if you're working with the New York Times and 0:04:46.560 --> 0:04:48.640 writing about the Internet in the year two thousand, you 0:04:48.640 --> 0:04:53.120 are probably fifty seven years old. Don't understand that about 0:04:53.120 --> 0:05:02.159 the internect So that is true. Now. That New York 0:05:02.200 --> 0:05:04.800 Times article ended with a whiff of frustration from Joe, 0:05:04.880 --> 0:05:07.520 noting that while the website had a disclaimer warning viewers 0:05:07.520 --> 0:05:10.799 that they might see extreme and disturbing situations, what happened 0:05:10.800 --> 0:05:14.240 on camera was mostly boring paperwork. Joe seems to have 0:05:14.279 --> 0:05:16.600 been frustrated by this, and he discussed wanting to add 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:19.160 audio and expand the reach of the cameras to make 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:21.960 it more interesting, and he did. In two thousand one, 0:05:22.200 --> 0:05:28.080 cameras were added to the men's and women's restroom's one right, 0:05:31.960 --> 0:05:35.719 So then it becomes literal jail porn. Yeah, yeah, that's 0:05:35.760 --> 0:05:44.480 exactly where this is headed. Noah, your instincts of people. Immediately, 0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:48.320 people with very specific fetishes realized that there were cameras 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:51.200 in the ladies room of a jail and started linking 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:55.240 them on porn sites like obviously, that's what's going to happen. Now. 0:05:55.360 --> 0:05:58.760 This pretty quickly became a problem for the department, and 0:05:58.800 --> 0:06:02.280 the spokesperson claimed that stated that inmates were only visible 0:06:02.320 --> 0:06:05.840 due to a misalignment, which was soon correct. They also 0:06:05.880 --> 0:06:08.279 claimed that no women could be seen using the toilet, 0:06:08.400 --> 0:06:12.960 which I find questionable at best best given the previous statement. Um. 0:06:13.000 --> 0:06:15.480 The most disturbing part of the whole saga is this 0:06:15.560 --> 0:06:17.960 line from a write up by the Los Angeles Times. 0:06:19.279 --> 0:06:22.919 Jack McIntyre and an attorney for the Maricopa County Sheriff's office, 0:06:22.920 --> 0:06:25.560 told the Arizona Republic that a short partition blocked the 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:28.600 camera's view of the toilet itself. No juveniles would have 0:06:28.640 --> 0:06:32.320 been displayed unless quote, they look older and lie to us. 0:06:34.640 --> 0:06:37.680 So there's no child import unless a kid lies, or 0:06:37.720 --> 0:06:42.159 if they look old, maybe it's a hard fourteen. Oh god, 0:06:42.560 --> 0:06:49.600 So America's sheriff is fresh off of of of setting 0:06:49.680 --> 0:06:55.800 up a teenage pyromaniac for a fake assassination attempt. If 0:06:55.880 --> 0:06:58.919 this is in part one, haven't listen. It is now 0:06:59.200 --> 0:07:03.400 become America because sheriff has now become a child pornographer. Well, 0:07:04.080 --> 0:07:07.120 you can't prove it. No, you can't prove that any 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:10.240 children were on those cameras, and if they were it's 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:13.120 because they lied or they looked older. So no one 0:07:13.160 --> 0:07:17.880 committed a crime, is the important thing here? Yeah, Okay, 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:22.040 So in two thousand four, a court ruled that Sheriff 0:07:22.120 --> 0:07:25.480 Joe's jail cameras violated the rights of pre trial detainees, 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:29.600 who are again by definition, not criminals. Now for the 0:07:29.680 --> 0:07:32.640 last episode, obviously jail came to But he got what 0:07:32.720 --> 0:07:35.160 he wanted out of it, right, he got the pr boost, Right, 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:37.720 he got everybody covering his jail camps. That's all this is. 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:40.040 You know, you want to get You want to get 0:07:40.040 --> 0:07:41.600 a couple of news cycles out of it. That's all 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:43.520 you ever hoped for. You don't care if the program 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:46.280 gets declared illegal a couple of years later. It's the 0:07:46.280 --> 0:07:49.440 same with the assassination attempt. That guy was exonerated four 0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:52.000 years later. Our pios still got the news cycle. That's 0:07:52.000 --> 0:07:55.520 all he ever wanted. Now, for the last several years, 0:07:55.600 --> 0:07:58.360 Joe made repeated claims that he could easily become the 0:07:58.400 --> 0:08:00.640 governor of Arizona if he wanted. And I don't think 0:08:00.640 --> 0:08:03.480 this is him lying. He was, for like a decade 0:08:03.560 --> 0:08:07.440 or more, the most popular politician in Arizona. Very consistently 0:08:07.720 --> 0:08:09.640 he there's a good chance he would have been able 0:08:09.680 --> 0:08:12.080 to win the governorship if he decided to run for it, 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:15.840 but despite solid polling in two thousand two, he decided 0:08:15.960 --> 0:08:18.640 not to run, saying I want to go out into 0:08:18.640 --> 0:08:21.920 the sunset. As a law enforcement officer. He would remain 0:08:21.960 --> 0:08:25.720 in office for fourteen more years. So I don't know 0:08:25.760 --> 0:08:29.960 why it's weird, right that he doesn't go for governor. 0:08:30.000 --> 0:08:31.400 I think it's maybe because he would have had to 0:08:31.440 --> 0:08:34.880 do ship other than just like torture people and do 0:08:35.040 --> 0:08:38.360 news interviews. No, that's the not the why I said 0:08:38.400 --> 0:08:40.480 what I said. What because he this guy was still 0:08:40.520 --> 0:08:48.040 in office till Yeah, it's fucking bonkers. My reaction, it is, 0:08:48.480 --> 0:08:51.000 it is out of its mind. How long this motherfucker 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:54.080 is in doing his job. Like this guy has been 0:08:54.360 --> 0:09:00.920 like definitely on some like Neo Abu Grabel torturing at minimum. Yeah, 0:09:01.040 --> 0:09:04.800 then it's like there's a fake assassination plot that puts 0:09:05.720 --> 0:09:09.760 uh innocent man, you know, in these sensities for four years. 0:09:10.200 --> 0:09:12.679 Then there's like, okay, maybe it was only he was 0:09:12.760 --> 0:09:17.720 running an adult porn site. There were probably no children, photographs, 0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:22.800 maybe jail camps, and then this dude keeps going for 0:09:24.760 --> 0:09:28.440 more more than a dozen years. I can't believe it. 0:09:28.600 --> 0:09:31.280 It's it's outrageous, it's really fucked up, and I have 0:09:31.400 --> 0:09:33.440 to give credit. Like you're going to note that we 0:09:33.480 --> 0:09:35.920 have a lot of sources for this episode, Like half 0:09:35.920 --> 0:09:38.080 of them are different articles from the Phoenix New Times, 0:09:38.080 --> 0:09:42.160 who for like twentysomething years like bit onto this guy 0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:46.200 like a bulldog and and deeply reported every fucked up 0:09:46.240 --> 0:09:49.520 thing he did. Um. And eventually it did matter. It 0:09:49.520 --> 0:09:52.760 did not matter soon enough. As a journalist, you don't 0:09:52.760 --> 0:09:55.000 want to wait twenty two years or so for this 0:09:55.120 --> 0:09:59.680 to have an impact. But it does eventually breakthrough. Um. 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:02.880 And credit goes to them because they really like they 0:10:02.880 --> 0:10:07.080 had some people who were who stuck to him like glue. Um. 0:10:07.120 --> 0:10:09.800 Now it's here, I should note Noah, as I talked 0:10:09.840 --> 0:10:13.640 about briefly teased really last episode. In the nineteen nineties, 0:10:13.720 --> 0:10:16.880 Joe R. Pios started a posse. Now this was what 0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:21.199 it sounds like, a group of volunteer amateurs, untrained, who 0:10:21.200 --> 0:10:24.440 were given certain law enforcement powers and partnered off with 0:10:24.520 --> 0:10:27.360 real cops to do cop ship, or at least Joe's 0:10:27.440 --> 0:10:29.800 version of that. Some of these men were allowed to 0:10:29.840 --> 0:10:33.280 carry firearms much of what they did was publicity driven. 0:10:33.360 --> 0:10:36.000 It became an annual spectacle from members of Joe's Posse 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:40.160 to patrol malls and shopping centers armed during the holiday season, 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:44.559 Joe's Posse would max out at about thirty five men, 0:10:44.920 --> 0:10:47.559 many of whom were taught to breach rooms and again 0:10:47.720 --> 0:10:50.959 carry weapons. They're doing like armed entry trainings and ship. 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:55.600 What the hell? This guy's whole job is to run 0:10:55.640 --> 0:10:59.240 the jail. Yeah, yeah, I mean he's got he's managing 0:10:59.280 --> 0:11:01.839 the Sheriff's for partment, which does law enforcement ship right, 0:11:01.880 --> 0:11:04.720 Like if the town doesn't have a copse of its own, 0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:07.520 that it's the sheriff's deputies they call, you know, sure, 0:11:07.559 --> 0:11:10.720 but these guys weren't, like basically they were. This isn't 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:14.480 like the Phoenix p D. No, Like this is Phoenix 0:11:14.480 --> 0:11:16.439 p D. Gets very angry at them in a number 0:11:16.440 --> 0:11:21.199 of occasions. This guy's main gig is to run the jail. Instead, 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:29.600 he gets yeah, like volunteers, Yeah, to patrol the mall 0:11:29.800 --> 0:11:32.800 on Christmas. Don't worry, they do what they're fucked up shit. 0:11:36.520 --> 0:11:40.280 In two thousand four, news broke about a prostitution sting 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:43.240 carried out in November of two thousand three, that, in 0:11:43.360 --> 0:11:49.000 the County Attorney's words, violated accepted standards of professionalism. Now, 0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:52.120 what this means in practice is that, as part of 0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:55.120 one of his big ongoing media pushes, Sheriff Joe sent 0:11:55.200 --> 0:11:58.559 dozens of undercover deputies and members of his posse sixty 0:11:58.600 --> 0:12:00.800 men in total, a mix of death beats and POSSE 0:12:00.920 --> 0:12:04.360 members to do a huge bust on sex workers. They 0:12:04.440 --> 0:12:08.240 arrested almost sixty women in tenor so John's At first 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:10.600 this looked like normal are pioship. He held a big 0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:12.840 press conference, there were news stories he claimed that like 0:12:12.880 --> 0:12:15.200 this was the largest single day bust of sex workers 0:12:15.240 --> 0:12:18.760 in county history. But then the real story trickled out 0:12:19.200 --> 0:12:22.679 from the Phoenix New Times quote the County Attorney's office 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:26.360 said that some undercover deputies and certain POSSE members engaged 0:12:26.400 --> 0:12:31.360 in oral sexual contacts, breast fondling, genital contact, masturbation, nudity, 0:12:31.400 --> 0:12:34.280 and other behavior which is contrary to professional law enforcement 0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:38.720 and legitimate public policy. The techniques undermine prosecution by reducing 0:12:38.720 --> 0:12:41.719 the likelihood of conviction. A key factor to note is 0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:44.360 that all that is needed to establish commission of a 0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:46.800 crime in a prostitution case is for two people to 0:12:46.960 --> 0:12:50.120 discuss the exchange of money for sex. No sex act 0:12:50.160 --> 0:12:52.559 need occur, nor does anyone have to remove a shred 0:12:52.600 --> 0:12:56.040 of clothing. Therefore, prostitution cases are the simplest to make 0:12:56.320 --> 0:12:59.240 virtual no brainers for cops. Here's an example of how 0:12:59.240 --> 0:13:02.439 POSSE member Glynn Kaufman handled an encounter with an alleged 0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:05.680 prostitute last October twenty nine. The Kaufman drove to a 0:13:05.679 --> 0:13:08.360 massage parlor on West Thomas Road and agreed to pay 0:13:08.400 --> 0:13:11.040 forty dollars for a thirty minute rubbed down. A woman 0:13:11.080 --> 0:13:13.640 in her early fifties told Kaufman to take off his clothes. 0:13:13.800 --> 0:13:16.680 Kaufman agreed. He then lay faced first on a massage 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:19.640 table and the woman began rubbing his back. She started 0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:21.360 to chew on my left ear, put her tongue in 0:13:21.400 --> 0:13:23.240 my ear, and whispered words to the effect of me 0:13:23.280 --> 0:13:25.600 not to be surprised if she ran her tongue over 0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:27.880 my balls in my shaft until I came all over her, 0:13:28.080 --> 0:13:31.080 Kaufman states and his signed police report. She told me 0:13:31.120 --> 0:13:33.600 that for an additional hundred dollars, she did the massage 0:13:33.600 --> 0:13:35.480 in the nude and would give me oral sex. I 0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:37.600 told her I would get a hundred dollars. I got 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:39.560 off the table, took the hundred dollars out of my 0:13:39.559 --> 0:13:42.560 trouser pocket and gave it to her. At this point, 0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:45.480 a crime had been committed and Kaufman should have made 0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:48.839 the bust, but the Sheriff's possemember was far from done. 0:13:48.920 --> 0:13:51.520 He contendued to pay for sexual act acts from her 0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:54.319 for quite some time. The article goes into much more 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:56.959 detail about what this possemember did and what other posse 0:13:57.080 --> 0:14:00.160 members and deputies did. I'm not going to belabor the point. 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:01.920 The gist of it is that our Pio's men, a 0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:05.760 mix of cops and volunteers, were straight up using prostitutes 0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:08.200 for sex and then arresting them once they got their 0:14:08.280 --> 0:14:10.760 rocks off so they didn't have to pay. That's what 0:14:10.800 --> 0:14:17.439 they were doing. Oh my god, Oh my god. So 0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:22.320 this is wild. That's incredible. So okay, So this guy 0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:27.120 starts out his career in drug enforcement pretending to be 0:14:27.160 --> 0:14:35.960 a pimp yep, and then then maybe what they called 0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:40.400 the treatment, the full circle. Fifty years later, he's sending 0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:44.520 his crew out to get blow jobs and then instead 0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:49.560 of paying for them, arresting the blow jobs. Yeah, that 0:14:49.760 --> 0:14:57.240 is my God. The good thing is all of these 0:14:57.360 --> 0:15:00.520 women had their charges dropped, like no one actually because 0:15:00.560 --> 0:15:03.040 what the police we're doing and these posss were doing 0:15:03.080 --> 0:15:07.800 was blatantly criminal, right, like, yeah, nobody actually got in trouble. 0:15:08.440 --> 0:15:10.720 I mean some possible they still probably had to send 0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:13.400 Wait a minute, they got the do they have to 0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:15.960 go to our Pio's tense city and you know, yeah 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:19.840 I think they didn't. Yeah, you know, it's like, okay, great, 0:15:19.840 --> 0:15:22.880 they got their charges dropped, but still it fucking sucked 0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:26.680 for whatever the twelve twenty four hours it was. Yeah, 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:29.640 it's definitely not trying to say it was not horribly 0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:31.920 fucked up, but at least none of these women wound 0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:35.800 up with fucking felonies, you know. Um, but yeah, it's 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:38.040 like just incredibly fucked up and it shows. We'll we'll 0:15:38.040 --> 0:15:40.600 talk more about his posse later, Noah, there's more to 0:15:40.640 --> 0:15:43.520 say about this posse. But like that's the kind of 0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:48.600 shift the posse got up to. Oh my god. Now, 0:15:48.760 --> 0:15:52.240 two thousand six is the year when things really started 0:15:52.280 --> 0:15:54.480 to shift for Joe R. Pio and he became the 0:15:54.520 --> 0:15:57.520 man we know him as today. Again. He'd started his 0:15:57.600 --> 0:15:59.960 career focusing on is a sheriff, focusing on the cry 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:02.720 times he'd gone after as a law man, drugs and 0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:05.800 sex and violence in the like. But two thousand six 0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:08.800 is when he really started to shift his focus towards immigrants. 0:16:09.520 --> 0:16:11.720 One important fact to note about Joe R. Pile is 0:16:11.760 --> 0:16:14.960 that while he's always exhibited a degree of personal racism, 0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:19.000 racism was not initially central to his political campaigns. He 0:16:19.120 --> 0:16:21.800 ran for sheriff the first time by making two points. 0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:25.000 One was that the existing sheriff was shitty and wasting money, 0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:26.760 and the other was that he could reduce crime by 0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:29.360 doing drug war bullshit. By the time he settled into 0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:31.240 his third term, though, the United States had gone through 0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:34.400 some pretty significant shifts in two thousand one. You may 0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:36.960 remember this Noah. In two thousand one, the Tim Allen 0:16:37.040 --> 0:16:39.840 movie Big Trouble debut, and it was followed shortly thereafter 0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:42.440 by a terrorist attack on New York City, and both 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:47.320 of these events changed our nation forever. Umm Allenvie was 0:16:47.360 --> 0:16:50.400 the big one. Oh yeah, totally, yeah, yeah. The war 0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:54.240 was ever the same after that. The War Tim Allen 0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:58.960 continues until this day. Until this day, Tim Allen hiding 0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:02.320 in the mountains of Afghan Stand with the Tim Ala band. 0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:05.800 Yeah we can, we can workshop that idea. Wow, that 0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:08.280 is a that was Are you a dad? That that 0:17:08.400 --> 0:17:13.240 dad joke was really him? Alan Ban? Come on man 0:17:14.440 --> 0:17:17.040 uh I think it could be a fun ABC show. 0:17:17.119 --> 0:17:19.840 Tim Allen is like a like a like a conservative 0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:24.120 suburban dad who through some quirk of circumstance moves into Kandahar. 0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:28.440 We had we didn't make that work. It gives a 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:34.760 whole new definition to tool time. Yeah. So um. Obviously, 0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:37.960 by the time Sheriff Joe is in his third term, 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:41.040 everyone's worried about terrorism. Right, Drugs are not as big 0:17:41.040 --> 0:17:44.280 as a concern. You know, crime is down, like two 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:47.280 thousand six, crime is down to its lowest level in generations. Right, 0:17:47.720 --> 0:17:51.600 So terrorism is like the big thing everybody's freaking out over. 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:54.720 And the right wing media is particularly warning people in 0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:56.760 the early aughts that a whole bunch of terrorists are 0:17:56.920 --> 0:17:59.040 sure any day now going to cross into the country 0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:02.280 via Mexico, despite the fact that this has never happened 0:18:02.320 --> 0:18:04.520 to my knowledge, it's the thing they keep harping over. 0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:07.440 And over the next few years, the number of undocumented 0:18:07.440 --> 0:18:10.160 immigrants into the United States began to rise, and by 0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:13.919 two thousand six, border crisis was a term Democratic and 0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:18.080 Republican politicians were dropping constantly. That year, Joe Biden boasted 0:18:18.080 --> 0:18:21.080 about voting to add seven miles to the US Mexico 0:18:21.160 --> 0:18:25.359 border fence. So the immigration and like the border becomes 0:18:25.359 --> 0:18:28.720 a huge political hot button. By two thousand six, um 0:18:28.800 --> 0:18:31.679 and again, crime itself is down really low. So the 0:18:31.720 --> 0:18:34.119 only way that that Joe R. Pio can tickle the 0:18:34.160 --> 0:18:36.600 amygdala of his electorate and make it seem like he's 0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:39.960 protecting them from something is to go after immigrants, and 0:18:39.960 --> 0:18:43.480 in this case he's specifically protecting them from demographic change 0:18:43.760 --> 0:18:47.520 because Arizona, as this election showed, Arizona was rapidly growing 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:51.000 less white, a fact that horrified all of these retirees 0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:53.080 who were in a lot of cases pretty racist and 0:18:53.080 --> 0:18:56.960 made up Joe's base. Um, he decided to use a 0:18:57.040 --> 0:19:00.320 state human trafficking law to go after smuggler who were 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:03.600 bringing immigrants into the country. But being Joe R. Pio, 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:05.760 he found a way to give this application of the 0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:08.280 law and added twists to make it much more harmful. 0:19:08.520 --> 0:19:11.320 From the New Yorker, the law's target is, of course 0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:14.480 smugglers known as coyotes, but Opio and Thomas who is 0:19:14.520 --> 0:19:18.600 the the attorney for the state, charge undocumented immigrants the 0:19:18.640 --> 0:19:22.560 coyotes cargo as co conspirators in their own smuggling. This 0:19:22.640 --> 0:19:26.000 is a class four felity which makes the subjects ineligible 0:19:26.040 --> 0:19:28.520 for bond, so they can't leave his tent jail and 0:19:28.680 --> 0:19:30.760 is one reason why our pios jails are so full. 0:19:31.080 --> 0:19:33.960 Maricopa is the only one of Arizona's fifteen counties that 0:19:34.000 --> 0:19:36.560 interprets the law this way, and the Sheriff's office is 0:19:36.600 --> 0:19:39.439 the only agency among the twenty five and Maricopa that 0:19:39.480 --> 0:19:42.000 does so. The other's figure and a few are vocal 0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:44.480 about it that their limited resources are better spent fighting 0:19:44.560 --> 0:19:48.959 serious crime. So again, he's not super popular at this 0:19:49.000 --> 0:19:51.040 time with a lot of other law enforcement because he's 0:19:51.119 --> 0:19:53.600 keeping the jails that the whole county has to use. 0:19:53.920 --> 0:19:57.000 Phoenix p D needs to use these jails too, filled 0:19:57.280 --> 0:19:59.879 with random people who are just trying to live their lives. 0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:04.600 He's charging with class four felonies because they're smuggling themselves 0:20:04.600 --> 0:20:12.760 into the country. Yeah. The using the human smuggling statute 0:20:11.359 --> 0:20:17.520 to charge the smugg old, not the smuggler, that is 0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:22.920 some next level Yeah. Yeah, I mean, if you really 0:20:22.960 --> 0:20:25.000 wanted to get into it. You could make some you 0:20:25.040 --> 0:20:27.320 could we have a conversation about the ways in which 0:20:27.400 --> 0:20:31.920 human trafficking laws aimed at protecting sex trafficking victims are 0:20:32.040 --> 0:20:36.159 used to harm people who are themselves sex workers and 0:20:36.160 --> 0:20:39.440 in some cases even victims of sex trafficking. Um, this 0:20:39.520 --> 0:20:41.400 is not the only time, and he's not the only 0:20:41.480 --> 0:20:43.800 law man who's interpreted a law in this way, but 0:20:43.880 --> 0:20:45.920 he is kind of he's on the cutting edge here, 0:20:46.280 --> 0:20:50.119 and he's not popular among cops around him for doing this. 0:20:50.480 --> 0:20:53.000 One of the people he piste off was George Gascon, 0:20:53.119 --> 0:20:56.000 who was the police chief in Mesa, which is basically 0:20:56.040 --> 0:20:57.760 a suburb of Phoenix, but it's a big city. He's 0:20:57.760 --> 0:21:01.359 about half a million people in Mesa. Gascon did not 0:21:01.560 --> 0:21:04.040 like our Pio. He was brought into the job from 0:21:04.080 --> 0:21:06.800 Los Angeles in order to reduce crime, and he decided 0:21:06.840 --> 0:21:08.879 a big part of that would be to build trust 0:21:08.880 --> 0:21:12.199 with communities who traditionally did not trust the cops. This 0:21:12.280 --> 0:21:15.760 particularly included Latinos, many of whom were immigrants or had 0:21:15.840 --> 0:21:18.639 family who were and were thus terrified of people like 0:21:18.760 --> 0:21:22.400 Joe R. Pio. Gascon told The New Yorker quote, they 0:21:22.440 --> 0:21:24.520 need to believe that you're ethical and honest, that you're 0:21:24.560 --> 0:21:26.840 not the enemy. I'm not an open borders man. I 0:21:26.840 --> 0:21:29.240 believe we have a problem with illegal immigration, but I 0:21:29.280 --> 0:21:31.399 want to make sure we don't throw away the Constitution 0:21:31.440 --> 0:21:35.720 in the process of solving it. Now I'm not obviously, 0:21:36.680 --> 0:21:38.840 I don't think I would agree with George Gascon on much, 0:21:38.840 --> 0:21:40.880 but just the point that, like other cops who are 0:21:40.880 --> 0:21:43.560 not open borders types think that, like what Joe is 0:21:43.600 --> 0:21:46.320 doing is fucked up, and they say so at the time, 0:21:46.440 --> 0:21:49.480 like he's not he's not he's not surfing on a 0:21:49.520 --> 0:21:52.960 wave of of of only positive response. Other cops are 0:21:53.000 --> 0:21:57.520 like kind of coming after him in this period, which yeah, yeah, 0:21:57.520 --> 0:22:01.600 I mean, look, it's like he's playing a cop on TV, right, Yeah, 0:22:01.720 --> 0:22:05.760 And so the actual cops are like, bro, what are 0:22:05.800 --> 0:22:09.480 you doing? I mean, this guy failed the test to 0:22:09.600 --> 0:22:13.640 be a border patrol agent, Like he literally couldn't handle it, right, 0:22:13.920 --> 0:22:16.480 And so then you know, all these years later, he's 0:22:16.480 --> 0:22:19.480 got to pretend he's got it now now that he's 0:22:19.520 --> 0:22:21.760 he's got some power, he's got to swing his dick 0:22:22.119 --> 0:22:26.199 like he's uh, like he's some cartoon version of a 0:22:26.240 --> 0:22:28.800 border patrol agent. Meanwhile, the guys that really need to 0:22:28.840 --> 0:22:31.879 do the gig are like, come on, man, like you 0:22:32.000 --> 0:22:36.320 got you gotta stop this. I'm just blown away. I'm 0:22:36.320 --> 0:22:38.760 a little bit tongue tied here, but like I just 0:22:38.800 --> 0:22:42.200 can't believe. I can't believe it. I mean, I remember 0:22:42.240 --> 0:22:45.960 hearing about it, and I still can't believe it. It's outrageous. Now, 0:22:46.280 --> 0:22:48.800 when Joe R. Pio started doing, he starts, he takes 0:22:48.800 --> 0:22:51.320 his posse and he uses them to do these massive 0:22:51.359 --> 0:22:54.200