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Speaker 1: You want me to do it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that

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Speaker 1: was good. That was good. You're natural, You're natural, and

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Speaker 1: this is behind the bastard. Thank you, Sophie. I didn't

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Speaker 1: need to hear that today. But podcast Bad People, where

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Speaker 1: I get shown up at my only talent A totally

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Speaker 1: introducing a podcast by today's guest, no Noah shactman of

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Speaker 1: the Daily Beast soon to be of Rolling Stone. Noah,

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Speaker 1: how how how was life changed for you in the

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Speaker 1: last I don't know, seven minutes since we concluded part one.

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Speaker 1: I ate a lot of meat with my hands. Oh,

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Speaker 1: good hand meat. Yeah, everybody's good hand meat. Yeah yeah,

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Speaker 1: now it was my wife brought back some leftovers which

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Speaker 1: I shoved into my face. It was delicious. Yeah, you

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Speaker 1: weigh a handmade. I drank a bunch of creed um.

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Speaker 1: We're both ready to kick off and talk about Sheriff

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Speaker 1: Joe R. Pio in the New Millennium. Noah, very exciting,

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Speaker 1: very exciting. So Joe started off the twenty one century

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Speaker 1: with a bang. In two thousand, he launched his jail Cam,

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Speaker 1: one of the very first live stream websites, with the

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Speaker 1: stated hope that people would see how horrible his jails

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Speaker 1: were and thus avoid committing crimes. Now, why he did it.

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Speaker 1: He did it as a publicity stunt. He is ahead

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Speaker 1: of the eight ball on this one. You know, if

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Speaker 1: you're live streaming in two thousand, you are on the

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Speaker 1: ground floor. You know, that's about earlier, Mr Beast. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So by this point, Joe's deputies had already blatantly entrapped

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Speaker 1: at least one person. And the degree to which he

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Speaker 1: actually saw jail cam as a provincial strategy is debatable.

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Speaker 1: I might argue that this was an early example of

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Speaker 1: the cruelty is the point style logic and mass American politics.

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Speaker 1: You know, Uh, the cameras were not there to scare criminals.

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Speaker 1: They were there to entertain Americans who wanted to see

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Speaker 1: people they had other rised. Joe knew this, and he

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Speaker 1: knew that providing suffering porn to the masses was could

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Speaker 1: be a key part of his continued relevance. The first

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Speaker 1: day his jail cams went online, more than three million

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Speaker 1: people tried to visit. Now, if you drop a video

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Speaker 1: today that gets three million views in its first day,

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Speaker 1: that's not bad in one. No, like this is two thousand,

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Speaker 1: Like that's huge trip. That's the entire internet. That's the

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Speaker 1: whole internet, and it's the website goes down immediately. It

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Speaker 1: takes them a long time to be able to like

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Speaker 1: handle that kind of strain. Initially, four cameras made up

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Speaker 1: the jail Cam program, which allowed visitors to view detainees

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Speaker 1: being led into jail, being fingerprinted, and being taken to

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Speaker 1: their holding areas. Quite frustratingly, Joe claims that a private

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Speaker 1: company paid for the project, and I have not found

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Speaker 1: more information on who that was. In an interview with

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Speaker 1: The New York Times shortly after the cameras were installed,

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Speaker 1: Joe claimed, we get hundreds of emails from all over

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Speaker 1: the world and love it and feel it's a great deterrent.

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Speaker 1: When people pointed out that the folks shown on his

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Speaker 1: cameras were all innocent until proven guilty, he actually had

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Speaker 1: a pretty smart response. Unfortunately, quote Sheriff our Pio compares

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Speaker 1: the unfiltered viewing with news photographs of crime suspects or

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Speaker 1: even the televised chase involving O. J. Simpson. He wasn't

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Speaker 1: even arrested yet. The sheriff said, what's wrong with it?

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Speaker 1: In a jail which is fucked up moral object, but

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Speaker 1: is a good response, like a smart you know, the

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Speaker 1: back to the three million for a second. Maybe that's

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Speaker 1: just I mean, first of all, who knows if that

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Speaker 1: figure is true? And secondly, maybe you just got like

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Speaker 1: a a denial of service attack. He got something awful

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Speaker 1: went after it. Yeah, Like, I'm sorry, I don't think

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Speaker 1: like the entirety of the two thousand Internet was like

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Speaker 1: let me, I mean I was on the Internet and

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Speaker 1: two thousand. Yeah. Same, You know, I don't think the

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Speaker 1: entirety of the two thousand Internet was like let me

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Speaker 1: check out this suffering form. That just doesn't seem true.

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Speaker 1: It gets that number gets reported by a lot of

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Speaker 1: news agencies covering him at the time, but I think

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Speaker 1: they are relying on him for those numbers. Um, I

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Speaker 1: have no way of but I have I also have

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Speaker 1: no way of verifying what the real numbers were. It

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Speaker 1: does seem to have been popular, um and will well,

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Speaker 1: I'll explain the degree to which it was popular in

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Speaker 1: just a second here. But yeah, I think you're right. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: when you're only getting your only source for the number

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Speaker 1: is Joe R. Pio, you have to question that source.

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Speaker 1: And again, it's kind of frustrating the degree to which

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Speaker 1: a lot of people don't. That said, if you're writing

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Speaker 1: about if you're working with the New York Times and

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Speaker 1: writing about the Internet in the year two thousand, you

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Speaker 1: are probably fifty seven years old. Don't understand that about

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Speaker 1: the internect So that is true. Now. That New York

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Speaker 1: Times article ended with a whiff of frustration from Joe,

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Speaker 1: noting that while the website had a disclaimer warning viewers

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Speaker 1: that they might see extreme and disturbing situations, what happened

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Speaker 1: on camera was mostly boring paperwork. Joe seems to have

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Speaker 1: been frustrated by this, and he discussed wanting to add

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Speaker 1: audio and expand the reach of the cameras to make

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Speaker 1: it more interesting, and he did. In two thousand one,

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Speaker 1: cameras were added to the men's and women's restroom's one right,

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Speaker 1: So then it becomes literal jail porn. Yeah, yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: exactly where this is headed. Noah, your instincts of people. Immediately,

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Speaker 1: people with very specific fetishes realized that there were cameras

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Speaker 1: in the ladies room of a jail and started linking

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Speaker 1: them on porn sites like obviously, that's what's going to happen. Now.

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Speaker 1: This pretty quickly became a problem for the department, and

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Speaker 1: the spokesperson claimed that stated that inmates were only visible

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Speaker 1: due to a misalignment, which was soon correct. They also

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Speaker 1: claimed that no women could be seen using the toilet,

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Speaker 1: which I find questionable at best best given the previous statement. Um.

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Speaker 1: The most disturbing part of the whole saga is this

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Speaker 1: line from a write up by the Los Angeles Times.

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Speaker 1: Jack McIntyre and an attorney for the Maricopa County Sheriff's office,

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Speaker 1: told the Arizona Republic that a short partition blocked the

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Speaker 1: camera's view of the toilet itself. No juveniles would have

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Speaker 1: been displayed unless quote, they look older and lie to us.

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Speaker 1: So there's no child import unless a kid lies, or

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Speaker 1: if they look old, maybe it's a hard fourteen. Oh god,

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Speaker 1: So America's sheriff is fresh off of of of setting

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Speaker 1: up a teenage pyromaniac for a fake assassination attempt. If

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Speaker 1: this is in part one, haven't listen. It is now

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Speaker 1: become America because sheriff has now become a child pornographer. Well,

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Speaker 1: you can't prove it. No, you can't prove that any

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Speaker 1: children were on those cameras, and if they were it's

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Speaker 1: because they lied or they looked older. So no one

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Speaker 1: committed a crime, is the important thing here? Yeah, Okay,

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Speaker 1: So in two thousand four, a court ruled that Sheriff

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Speaker 1: Joe's jail cameras violated the rights of pre trial detainees,

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Speaker 1: who are again by definition, not criminals. Now for the

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Speaker 1: last episode, obviously jail came to But he got what

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Speaker 1: he wanted out of it, right, he got the pr boost, Right,

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Speaker 1: he got everybody covering his jail camps. That's all this is.

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Speaker 1: You know, you want to get You want to get

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Speaker 1: a couple of news cycles out of it. That's all

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Speaker 1: you ever hoped for. You don't care if the program

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Speaker 1: gets declared illegal a couple of years later. It's the

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Speaker 1: same with the assassination attempt. That guy was exonerated four

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Speaker 1: years later. Our pios still got the news cycle. That's

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Speaker 1: all he ever wanted. Now, for the last several years,

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Speaker 1: Joe made repeated claims that he could easily become the

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Speaker 1: governor of Arizona if he wanted. And I don't think

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Speaker 1: this is him lying. He was, for like a decade

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Speaker 1: or more, the most popular politician in Arizona. Very consistently

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Speaker 1: he there's a good chance he would have been able

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Speaker 1: to win the governorship if he decided to run for it,

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Speaker 1: but despite solid polling in two thousand two, he decided

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Speaker 1: not to run, saying I want to go out into

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Speaker 1: the sunset. As a law enforcement officer. He would remain

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Speaker 1: in office for fourteen more years. So I don't know

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Speaker 1: why it's weird, right that he doesn't go for governor.

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Speaker 1: I think it's maybe because he would have had to

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Speaker 1: do ship other than just like torture people and do

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Speaker 1: news interviews. No, that's the not the why I said

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Speaker 1: what I said. What because he this guy was still

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Speaker 1: in office till Yeah, it's fucking bonkers. My reaction, it is,

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Speaker 1: it is out of its mind. How long this motherfucker

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Speaker 1: is in doing his job. Like this guy has been

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Speaker 1: like definitely on some like Neo Abu Grabel torturing at minimum. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: then it's like there's a fake assassination plot that puts

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Speaker 1: uh innocent man, you know, in these sensities for four years.

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Speaker 1: Then there's like, okay, maybe it was only he was

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Speaker 1: running an adult porn site. There were probably no children, photographs,

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Speaker 1: maybe jail camps, and then this dude keeps going for

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Speaker 1: more more than a dozen years. I can't believe it.

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Speaker 1: It's it's outrageous, it's really fucked up, and I have

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Speaker 1: to give credit. Like you're going to note that we

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Speaker 1: have a lot of sources for this episode, Like half

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Speaker 1: of them are different articles from the Phoenix New Times,

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Speaker 1: who for like twentysomething years like bit onto this guy

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Speaker 1: like a bulldog and and deeply reported every fucked up

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Speaker 1: thing he did. Um. And eventually it did matter. It

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Speaker 1: did not matter soon enough. As a journalist, you don't

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Speaker 1: want to wait twenty two years or so for this

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Speaker 1: to have an impact. But it does eventually breakthrough. Um.

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Speaker 1: And credit goes to them because they really like they

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Speaker 1: had some people who were who stuck to him like glue. Um.

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Speaker 1: Now it's here, I should note Noah, as I talked

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Speaker 1: about briefly teased really last episode. In the nineteen nineties,

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Speaker 1: Joe R. Pios started a posse. Now this was what

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Speaker 1: it sounds like, a group of volunteer amateurs, untrained, who

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Speaker 1: were given certain law enforcement powers and partnered off with

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Speaker 1: real cops to do cop ship, or at least Joe's

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Speaker 1: version of that. Some of these men were allowed to

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Speaker 1: carry firearms much of what they did was publicity driven.

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Speaker 1: It became an annual spectacle from members of Joe's Posse

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Speaker 1: to patrol malls and shopping centers armed during the holiday season,

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Speaker 1: Joe's Posse would max out at about thirty five men,

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Speaker 1: many of whom were taught to breach rooms and again

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Speaker 1: carry weapons. They're doing like armed entry trainings and ship.

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Speaker 1: What the hell? This guy's whole job is to run

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Speaker 1: the jail. Yeah, yeah, I mean he's got he's managing

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Speaker 1: the Sheriff's for partment, which does law enforcement ship right,

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Speaker 1: Like if the town doesn't have a copse of its own,

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Speaker 1: that it's the sheriff's deputies they call, you know, sure,

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Speaker 1: but these guys weren't, like basically they were. This isn't

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Speaker 1: like the Phoenix p D. No, Like this is Phoenix

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Speaker 1: p D. Gets very angry at them in a number

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Speaker 1: of occasions. This guy's main gig is to run the jail. Instead,

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Speaker 1: he gets yeah, like volunteers, Yeah, to patrol the mall

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Speaker 1: on Christmas. Don't worry, they do what they're fucked up shit.

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Speaker 1: In two thousand four, news broke about a prostitution sting

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Speaker 1: carried out in November of two thousand three, that, in

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Speaker 1: the County Attorney's words, violated accepted standards of professionalism. Now,

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Speaker 1: what this means in practice is that, as part of

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Speaker 1: one of his big ongoing media pushes, Sheriff Joe sent

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Speaker 1: dozens of undercover deputies and members of his posse sixty

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Speaker 1: men in total, a mix of death beats and POSSE

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Speaker 1: members to do a huge bust on sex workers. They

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Speaker 1: arrested almost sixty women in tenor so John's At first

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Speaker 1: this looked like normal are pioship. He held a big

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Speaker 1: press conference, there were news stories he claimed that like

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Speaker 1: this was the largest single day bust of sex workers

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Speaker 1: in county history. But then the real story trickled out

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Speaker 1: from the Phoenix New Times quote the County Attorney's office

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Speaker 1: said that some undercover deputies and certain POSSE members engaged

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Speaker 1: in oral sexual contacts, breast fondling, genital contact, masturbation, nudity,

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Speaker 1: and other behavior which is contrary to professional law enforcement

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Speaker 1: and legitimate public policy. The techniques undermine prosecution by reducing

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Speaker 1: the likelihood of conviction. A key factor to note is

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Speaker 1: that all that is needed to establish commission of a

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Speaker 1: crime in a prostitution case is for two people to

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Speaker 1: discuss the exchange of money for sex. No sex act

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Speaker 1: need occur, nor does anyone have to remove a shred

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Speaker 1: of clothing. Therefore, prostitution cases are the simplest to make

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Speaker 1: virtual no brainers for cops. Here's an example of how

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Speaker 1: POSSE member Glynn Kaufman handled an encounter with an alleged

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Speaker 1: prostitute last October twenty nine. The Kaufman drove to a

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Speaker 1: massage parlor on West Thomas Road and agreed to pay

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Speaker 1: forty dollars for a thirty minute rubbed down. A woman

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Speaker 1: in her early fifties told Kaufman to take off his clothes.

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Speaker 1: Kaufman agreed. He then lay faced first on a massage

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Speaker 1: table and the woman began rubbing his back. She started

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Speaker 1: to chew on my left ear, put her tongue in

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Speaker 1: my ear, and whispered words to the effect of me

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Speaker 1: not to be surprised if she ran her tongue over

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Speaker 1: my balls in my shaft until I came all over her,

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Speaker 1: Kaufman states and his signed police report. She told me

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Speaker 1: that for an additional hundred dollars, she did the massage

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Speaker 1: in the nude and would give me oral sex. I

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Speaker 1: told her I would get a hundred dollars. I got

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Speaker 1: off the table, took the hundred dollars out of my

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Speaker 1: trouser pocket and gave it to her. At this point,

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Speaker 1: a crime had been committed and Kaufman should have made

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Speaker 1: the bust, but the Sheriff's possemember was far from done.

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Speaker 1: He contendued to pay for sexual act acts from her

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Speaker 1: for quite some time. The article goes into much more

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Speaker 1: detail about what this possemember did and what other posse

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Speaker 1: members and deputies did. I'm not going to belabor the point.

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Speaker 1: The gist of it is that our Pio's men, a

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Speaker 1: mix of cops and volunteers, were straight up using prostitutes

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Speaker 1: for sex and then arresting them once they got their

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Speaker 1: rocks off so they didn't have to pay. That's what

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Speaker 1: they were doing. Oh my god, Oh my god. So

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Speaker 1: this is wild. That's incredible. So okay, So this guy

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Speaker 1: starts out his career in drug enforcement pretending to be

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Speaker 1: a pimp yep, and then then maybe what they called

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Speaker 1: the treatment, the full circle. Fifty years later, he's sending

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Speaker 1: his crew out to get blow jobs and then instead

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Speaker 1: of paying for them, arresting the blow jobs. Yeah, that

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Speaker 1: is my God. The good thing is all of these

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Speaker 1: women had their charges dropped, like no one actually because

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Speaker 1: what the police we're doing and these posss were doing

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Speaker 1: was blatantly criminal, right, like, yeah, nobody actually got in trouble.

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Speaker 1: I mean some possible they still probably had to send

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Speaker 1: Wait a minute, they got the do they have to

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Speaker 1: go to our Pio's tense city and you know, yeah

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Speaker 1: I think they didn't. Yeah, you know, it's like, okay, great,

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Speaker 1: they got their charges dropped, but still it fucking sucked

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Speaker 1: for whatever the twelve twenty four hours it was. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's definitely not trying to say it was not horribly

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Speaker 1: fucked up, but at least none of these women wound

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Speaker 1: up with fucking felonies, you know. Um, but yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: like just incredibly fucked up and it shows. We'll we'll

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Speaker 1: talk more about his posse later, Noah, there's more to

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Speaker 1: say about this posse. But like that's the kind of

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Speaker 1: shift the posse got up to. Oh my god. Now,

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Speaker 1: two thousand six is the year when things really started

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Speaker 1: to shift for Joe R. Pio and he became the

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Speaker 1: man we know him as today. Again. He'd started his

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Speaker 1: career focusing on is a sheriff, focusing on the cry

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Speaker 1: times he'd gone after as a law man, drugs and

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Speaker 1: sex and violence in the like. But two thousand six

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Speaker 1: is when he really started to shift his focus towards immigrants.

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Speaker 1: One important fact to note about Joe R. Pile is

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Speaker 1: that while he's always exhibited a degree of personal racism,

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Speaker 1: racism was not initially central to his political campaigns. He

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Speaker 1: ran for sheriff the first time by making two points.

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Speaker 1: One was that the existing sheriff was shitty and wasting money,

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Speaker 1: and the other was that he could reduce crime by

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Speaker 1: doing drug war bullshit. By the time he settled into

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Speaker 1: his third term, though, the United States had gone through

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Speaker 1: some pretty significant shifts in two thousand one. You may

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Speaker 1: remember this Noah. In two thousand one, the Tim Allen

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Speaker 1: movie Big Trouble debut, and it was followed shortly thereafter

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Speaker 1: by a terrorist attack on New York City, and both

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Speaker 1: of these events changed our nation forever. Umm Allenvie was

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Speaker 1: the big one. Oh yeah, totally, yeah, yeah. The war

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Speaker 1: was ever the same after that. The War Tim Allen

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Speaker 1: continues until this day. Until this day, Tim Allen hiding

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Speaker 1: in the mountains of Afghan Stand with the Tim Ala band.

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Speaker 1: Yeah we can, we can workshop that idea. Wow, that

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Speaker 1: is a that was Are you a dad? That that

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Speaker 1: dad joke was really him? Alan Ban? Come on man

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Speaker 1: uh I think it could be a fun ABC show.

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Speaker 1: Tim Allen is like a like a like a conservative

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Speaker 1: suburban dad who through some quirk of circumstance moves into Kandahar.

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Speaker 1: We had we didn't make that work. It gives a

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Speaker 1: whole new definition to tool time. Yeah. So um. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: by the time Sheriff Joe is in his third term,

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Speaker 1: everyone's worried about terrorism. Right, Drugs are not as big

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Speaker 1: as a concern. You know, crime is down, like two

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Speaker 1: thousand six, crime is down to its lowest level in generations. Right,

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Speaker 1: So terrorism is like the big thing everybody's freaking out over.

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Speaker 1: And the right wing media is particularly warning people in

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Speaker 1: the early aughts that a whole bunch of terrorists are

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Speaker 1: sure any day now going to cross into the country

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Speaker 1: via Mexico, despite the fact that this has never happened

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Speaker 1: to my knowledge, it's the thing they keep harping over.

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Speaker 1: And over the next few years, the number of undocumented

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Speaker 1: immigrants into the United States began to rise, and by

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Speaker 1: two thousand six, border crisis was a term Democratic and

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Speaker 1: Republican politicians were dropping constantly. That year, Joe Biden boasted

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Speaker 1: about voting to add seven miles to the US Mexico

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Speaker 1: border fence. So the immigration and like the border becomes

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Speaker 1: a huge political hot button. By two thousand six, um

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Speaker 1: and again, crime itself is down really low. So the

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Speaker 1: only way that that Joe R. Pio can tickle the

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Speaker 1: amygdala of his electorate and make it seem like he's

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Speaker 1: protecting them from something is to go after immigrants, and

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Speaker 1: in this case he's specifically protecting them from demographic change

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Speaker 1: because Arizona, as this election showed, Arizona was rapidly growing

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Speaker 1: less white, a fact that horrified all of these retirees

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Speaker 1: who were in a lot of cases pretty racist and

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Speaker 1: made up Joe's base. Um, he decided to use a

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Speaker 1: state human trafficking law to go after smuggler who were

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Speaker 1: bringing immigrants into the country. But being Joe R. Pio,

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Speaker 1: he found a way to give this application of the

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Speaker 1: law and added twists to make it much more harmful.

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Speaker 1: From the New Yorker, the law's target is, of course

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Speaker 1: smugglers known as coyotes, but Opio and Thomas who is

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Speaker 1: the the attorney for the state, charge undocumented immigrants the

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Speaker 1: coyotes cargo as co conspirators in their own smuggling. This

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Speaker 1: is a class four felity which makes the subjects ineligible

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Speaker 1: for bond, so they can't leave his tent jail and

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Speaker 1: is one reason why our pios jails are so full.

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Speaker 1: Maricopa is the only one of Arizona's fifteen counties that

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Speaker 1: interprets the law this way, and the Sheriff's office is

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Speaker 1: the only agency among the twenty five and Maricopa that

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Speaker 1: does so. The other's figure and a few are vocal

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Speaker 1: about it that their limited resources are better spent fighting

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Speaker 1: serious crime. So again, he's not super popular at this

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Speaker 1: time with a lot of other law enforcement because he's

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Speaker 1: keeping the jails that the whole county has to use.

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Speaker 1: Phoenix p D needs to use these jails too, filled

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Speaker 1: with random people who are just trying to live their lives.

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Speaker 1: He's charging with class four felonies because they're smuggling themselves

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Speaker 1: into the country. Yeah. The using the human smuggling statute

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Speaker 1: to charge the smugg old, not the smuggler, that is

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Speaker 1: some next level Yeah. Yeah, I mean, if you really

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Speaker 1: wanted to get into it. You could make some you

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Speaker 1: could we have a conversation about the ways in which

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Speaker 1: human trafficking laws aimed at protecting sex trafficking victims are

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Speaker 1: used to harm people who are themselves sex workers and

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Speaker 1: in some cases even victims of sex trafficking. Um, this

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Speaker 1: is not the only time, and he's not the only

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Speaker 1: law man who's interpreted a law in this way, but

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Speaker 1: he is kind of he's on the cutting edge here,

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Speaker 1: and he's not popular among cops around him for doing this.

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Speaker 1: One of the people he piste off was George Gascon,

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Speaker 1: who was the police chief in Mesa, which is basically

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Speaker 1: a suburb of Phoenix, but it's a big city. He's

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Speaker 1: about half a million people in Mesa. Gascon did not

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Speaker 1: like our Pio. He was brought into the job from

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles in order to reduce crime, and he decided

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Speaker 1: a big part of that would be to build trust

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Speaker 1: with communities who traditionally did not trust the cops. This

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Speaker 1: particularly included Latinos, many of whom were immigrants or had

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Speaker 1: family who were and were thus terrified of people like

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Speaker 1: Joe R. Pio. Gascon told The New Yorker quote, they

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Speaker 1: need to believe that you're ethical and honest, that you're

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Speaker 1: not the enemy. I'm not an open borders man. I

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Speaker 1: believe we have a problem with illegal immigration, but I

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Speaker 1: want to make sure we don't throw away the Constitution

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Speaker 1: in the process of solving it. Now I'm not obviously,

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Speaker 1: I don't think I would agree with George Gascon on much,

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Speaker 1: but just the point that, like other cops who are

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Speaker 1: not open borders types think that, like what Joe is

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Speaker 1: doing is fucked up, and they say so at the time,

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Speaker 1: like he's not he's not he's not surfing on a

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Speaker 1: wave of of of only positive response. Other cops are

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Speaker 1: like kind of coming after him in this period, which yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, look, it's like he's playing a cop on TV, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And so the actual cops are like, bro, what are

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Speaker 1: you doing? I mean, this guy failed the test to

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Speaker 1: be a border patrol agent, Like he literally couldn't handle it, right,

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Speaker 1: And so then you know, all these years later, he's

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Speaker 1: got to pretend he's got it now now that he's

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Speaker 1: he's got some power, he's got to swing his dick

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Speaker 1: like he's uh, like he's some cartoon version of a

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Speaker 1: border patrol agent. Meanwhile, the guys that really need to

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Speaker 1: do the gig are like, come on, man, like you

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Speaker 1: got you gotta stop this. I'm just blown away. I'm

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Speaker 1: a little bit tongue tied here, but like I just

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Speaker 1: can't believe. I can't believe it. I mean, I remember

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Speaker 1: hearing about it, and I still can't believe it. It's outrageous. Now,

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Speaker 1: when Joe R. Pio started doing, he starts, he takes

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Speaker 1: his posse and he uses them to do these massive

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Speaker 1: sweeps of immigrant neighborhoods. And again he's going into other

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Speaker 1: police departments turf because he's he's the sheriff of the county,

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Speaker 1: so he's not generally you're not supposed to do ship

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Speaker 1: unless you know Meso or Phoenix asks you to come

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Speaker 1: in right like you're supposed to be focusing mainly on

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Speaker 1: like sheriff's department stuff. Um, he starts sending not just

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Speaker 1: his officers, but hundreds of volunteer randos into other people's

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Speaker 1: cities to do sweeps of immigrant neighborhoods. They're busting into

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Speaker 1: like auto shops and grocery stores, pulling people out of

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Speaker 1: their jobs and taking them to spend years in his

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Speaker 1: tent city like blong people out of their Yeah, the

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Speaker 1: blue job guys. Blow job guys are like, okay, cool,

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Speaker 1: we've we've busted, We've gotten some free blow jobs from

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Speaker 1: prostitutes and then put them in jail. Uh. And then

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Speaker 1: aren't time to destroy some families? Oh my god. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's an outrageous piece of ship. But you know who

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Speaker 1: won't tear people away from their families? Noah? M products. Well,

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Speaker 1: the good news about Raytheon, Noah, is that they'll get

419
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:09,159
Speaker 1: you with your family. See, this is the beauty of

420
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:11,720
Speaker 1: We like to talk about hexagen on on this show

421
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,640
Speaker 1: here as an explosive compound. If you want to make

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00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 1: sure that the whole family goes, you want hexagen. That's

423
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:22,680
Speaker 1: the hexagen difference. And that's the Raytheon guarantee. All right,

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Speaker 1: here's some ads. We're back, uh and and just just

425
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:40,479
Speaker 1: having a lovely time thinking about show our pile and

426
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 1: the fact that he's now has gangs of goons ripping

427
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:47,159
Speaker 1: people away from their families and their jobs. Now this again,

428
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:51,400
Speaker 1: cops tend to be they're kind of like cats. Right

429
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 1: when you you got a cat, it has a territory.

430
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:56,879
Speaker 1: You throw another cat in that territory. They're probably going

431
00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 1: to fight, right. Cops are kind of the same way,

432
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,440
Speaker 1: and Joe R. PIO is really fucking with other cops territory.

433
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,879
Speaker 1: He's coming into these communities, he's fucking things up. He's damaging,

434
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,440
Speaker 1: like in a lot of cases, hurting people's businesses because

435
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 1: they're reliant on these people. So Gascon, the the the

436
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 1: police chief of Mesa, gets really angry about this ship

437
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 1: and he tells the Maricopa County Sheriff's office that these

438
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 1: raids are not welcome in Mesa. Unfortunately, Gascon does not

439
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,719
Speaker 1: have the power to stop our Pio. See, the sheriff

440
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 1: of Maricopa County has a wide ranging purview. Um, there's

441
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:32,399
Speaker 1: all these little communities without their own police forces, and

442
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,160
Speaker 1: state law gives Joe the power to police those towns.

443
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:38,160
Speaker 1: But his deputies can go and do law enforcement ship

444
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,880
Speaker 1: anywhere in the county, even if other sheriffs or even

445
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,160
Speaker 1: if O they're like police chiefs don't want his men

446
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 1: around the best part of this is that, you know,

447
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:50,440
Speaker 1: police chiefs are appointed generally, sheriffs are elected, so they

448
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 1: can't be fired. Like, no matter how much he pisses

449
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 1: people off, unless the voters kick him off. He's staying,

450
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 1: and the voters like never, don't vote him out for

451
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:04,920
Speaker 1: you know, they love this ship. The New Yorker wrote

452
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 1: about a raid in October of two thousand eight. Quote,

453
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 1: he sent sixty detectives and posse volunteers into Mesa after midnight.

454
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:14,920
Speaker 1: The plan was to raid the Mesa city Hall in

455
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 1: the public library to look for undocumented Yeah. Yeah, the

456
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:23,639
Speaker 1: fucking librarian city all so he sent the blowjob posse

457
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 1: into the city. All yeah, to look for undocumented janitors who,

458
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,919
Speaker 1: according to the Sheriff's office, were suspected of identification. Theft

459
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:37,359
Speaker 1: Gascon was not notified beforehand, or Pio claims he did

460
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 1: inform someone at Mesa police headquarters about the raid. A

461
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,200
Speaker 1: Mesa police officers spotted a large group of heavily armed

462
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:47,639
Speaker 1: men and flak jackets silently down down bark Gascon. When

463
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 1: I asked about the episode, took a deep breath. It

464
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 1: was a very, very dangerous scenario, he said. My entire

465
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:56,920
Speaker 1: law enforcement career, I have never heard of anything close

466
00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 1: to this. His officers managed to identify the armed men,

467
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 1: but then had trouble getting a straight story from them.

468
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 1: The rate eventually went forward, monitored by the Mesa police

469
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,439
Speaker 1: and resulted in the arrests of three middle aged cleaning

470
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,680
Speaker 1: women are Pios. Press release said that another thirteen suspected

471
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 1: illegal immigrants were arrested later at their homes. So not

472
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,120
Speaker 1: just like fucked up more, that was a really reckless

473
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:21,919
Speaker 1: like you could have You could have had two different

474
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,200
Speaker 1: sets of cops shooting each other up in the city

475
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 1: hall for this, Like, oh my god, this makes like

476
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:32,919
Speaker 1: the movie l A Confidential, look like a model of

477
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:37,359
Speaker 1: effective policing. It is hard not to look like a

478
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:41,199
Speaker 1: good cop next to Joe r Pia, Oh my god,

479
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 1: Like Rudy Giuliani looks all of a sudden, like you know,

480
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:52,479
Speaker 1: a model mayor and law enforcement official. Joe Rizzo in

481
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:56,680
Speaker 1: Philadelphia all of a sudden looks like, you know, uh,

482
00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 1: not a racist authoritarian, but all of a sudden a

483
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 1: model office because they don't have just gangs of armed

484
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 1: goons busting into city hall to arrest janitors. Like, oh god,

485
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 1: it's so fucking bad now. That New Yorker article I

486
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 1: found included some incredible context on the PR game. Joe

487
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:21,359
Speaker 1: had by that point gotten extremely good at playing. He'd

488
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,199
Speaker 1: hired an expert, Lisa Allen, who was the wife of

489
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 1: one of his officers and someone who would prove to

490
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 1: be an extremely savvy public relations expert. She was hired

491
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 1: in nineteen nine, soon after Joe took office. When Joe

492
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 1: would institute a new rule in his tin jail, it

493
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 1: was Lisa's job to make sure that rule went viral.

494
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 1: A good case study would be the pink underwear. In

495
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 1: the early aughts, Joe started issuing pink underpants to all

496
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,719
Speaker 1: of his inmates. Depending on who asked him, the purpose

497
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 1: of this was to stop theft, to emasculate the inmates,

498
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 1: or because the color pink has colmbing properties. The real

499
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:57,960
Speaker 1: purpose was spectacle, because people would make news articles about

500
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 1: the Joe's He's given his pink underwear all these hardened criminals. Uh.

501
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 1: It was Lisa Allen's job to get the maximum spectacle

502
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 1: out of every decision Joe made. The Phoenix New Times

503
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 1: writes about one such moment in two thousand five, captured

504
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 1: for a documentary about Sheriff Joe, she practically directs our

505
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 1: Pio as he oversees the media spectacle of moving about

506
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 1: two thousand inmates to a new jail, handcuffed together and

507
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 1: stripped to their are Pio mandated pink underwear. I want

508
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 1: you to look tough, Alan tells Joe as the prisoners

509
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 1: mark past. Just stand there and watch him tap your foot.

510
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 1: I knew, Lisa knew the minute we put these guys

511
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 1: in the pink underwear, that will be what goes on

512
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 1: air our Pio tells the filmmakers after the inmate parade.

513
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 1: Do you really think that no one is going to

514
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 1: show these guys in their pink underwear? Again? That's why

515
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 1: he's doing it. And he's got this PR lady who

516
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 1: you know, PR people are the greatest evil in the world.

517
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 1: I'm of the opinion, but she gets yeah, I mean

518
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 1: she she fucking is a huge part of this of

519
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 1: his six she works with them for like twenty something years, um,

520
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 1: and she's constantly he's in the news. How does she spin?

521
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 1: Like the armed attack on city Hall in order to

522
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 1: get a couple of janitors. We arrested a bunch of

523
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 1: illegal immigrants. They were breaking the law, committed felonies, dangerous people.

524
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 1: Got him off, got him off the street. No tolerance

525
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 1: and Joe R. Pio's Americopa County. Yeah. In two thousand

526
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 1: and eight, Barack Obama was elected President. Joe R. Pile

527
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 1: was not happy with this, and he immediately went on

528
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 1: the war path, demanding an investigation into the president's birth certificate.

529
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 1: He eventually launched one himself through the sheriff's department staffed

530
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 1: by POSSE members. Postea, he was the O G. Here's

531
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 1: the O G. Not but he's he's he's early in that. Yeah,

532
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 1: Like when Trump is starting to like whine about the

533
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 1: birth certificate, he launches he sees that this is the

534
00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 1: right wing caused celeb and he opens an investing gation

535
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 1: staffed by his posses for his sheriff's department into So

536
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 1: it's like, okay, guys, you smoked it on the on

537
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 1: the prostitute and entrapment. Uh move, you killed it on

538
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 1: the attacking city hall. Next up, find Barack Obama, instigate

539
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 1: the president certificate. Oh my god. You know, uh, my

540
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 1: old man Say is a book author and uh actually

541
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 1: wrote a book about Obama's dad uh and his his

542
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 1: trip uh here to the United States. And it's like

543
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:45,080
Speaker 1: this completely moving, amazing uh the story and uh there's

544
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 1: no question, unlike with Joe Pio's family there, you know,

545
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 1: there's no question about whether you know he came here legally,

546
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 1: and it's just it's so vile that, you know, the

547
00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 1: first black president, they just immediately try to turn him

548
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 1: into you know, the other he's a dangerous foreigner. Like yeah,

549
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 1: it's that. You can't we can't say enough about how

550
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 1: disgusting the whole fucking berther thing is and our PIO.

551
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:14,719
Speaker 1: I think the thing that's grossest to me about this

552
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 1: is he doesn't start this. He just cashes in on it.

553
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 1: He just sees, oh, we can make we can make

554
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 1: bank on this ship. People are ready to eat this

555
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 1: up if I if I open an investigation and and

556
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,360
Speaker 1: he knew, and crime is way down, crime is way

557
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:35,960
Speaker 1: down in my uh in my area. You know. Yeah,

558
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 1: I've done I've done every stunt in the book. Now

559
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 1: I got one more card to play, investigate the president.

560
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 1: And we have some footage behind the scenes of him

561
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 1: and Lisa Allen talking about this PR stunt and we

562
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 1: knew Number one, Joe is the entire time bragging about

563
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 1: how many UH donations he's going to get from racists,

564
00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 1: Like he's just laughing about how much money he's going

565
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 1: to get sent over this, right, Like what a what

566
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 1: a big profit thing? It's going to be for him.

567
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 1: Lisa Allen makes fun of him because of how racist

568
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 1: and dumb this is. In a meeting filmed for a

569
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 1: two thousand and fourteen documentary, she says, you might as

570
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:13,960
Speaker 1: well go to your press conference in big old clown

571
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 1: shoes and a big old nose. Um. Yeah, his own

572
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:23,719
Speaker 1: pr person. In two thousand ten, Joe started a webcast

573
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 1: and Lisa told viewers during this like kind of proto

574
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 1: podcast thing, sheriff. Joe is referred to as a media hog.

575
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 1: He's referred to as a media whore. But there's always

576
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 1: been a reason behind it, and the most obvious reason

577
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 1: was political power. But over the years and morphed into

578
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 1: something more for Joe. When you read enough articles about

579
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 1: him that include interviews with people that knew when worked

580
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 1: with him for periods of time, significant periods of time,

581
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 1: it becomes clear that sometime in the mid odds, right

582
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 1: around when he pivoted heart on immigration, he got terminal

583
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 1: viral brain disease, which is what happens when someone gets

584
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 1: addicted to causing outrage online. Today it's better known as

585
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 1: Glenn Greenwaltz syndrome. But Joe R. Pile, I'm sorry, but

586
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:09,440
Speaker 1: Joe R. Pilot. Yeah, let me be clear, Glenn Greenwald

587
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:15,800
Speaker 1: has never sent train has never set teams. This true

588
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 1: of armed Yahoo's into city all that is. And and

589
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:26,399
Speaker 1: Glenn Greenwald, let me make this clear, has never sent

590
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:30,759
Speaker 1: posses into entrap sex workers. No, he has not. He

591
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:32,880
Speaker 1: has not. That is that is an area where Joe R.

592
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 1: Pio has an edge on him. Um. I also don't

593
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:38,359
Speaker 1: think Joe R. Pio is nice to dogs, and I'm

594
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 1: fairly certain that Glenn Greenwald is great with dogs, so

595
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:46,359
Speaker 1: we're being fair here. But he does have this, he

596
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 1: has this. I'm gonna read you a quote from a

597
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 1: two nine New York article, and I think gets what

598
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:54,600
Speaker 1: I'm trying to say here. There is a there's clearly

599
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 1: something going on to his head that I think is

600
00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:01,280
Speaker 1: the result of how bad chasing fame in this viral

601
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 1: troll way is for you. Right, It's this thing. We

602
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 1: see it in a million public people today, right, Like

603
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 1: basically every public person has a version of this this

604
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:12,719
Speaker 1: going on to their brain. But our pile gets it

605
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 1: really early. He might be the first online man, you know, like, right,

606
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:22,120
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna quote from this New Yorker article. I

607
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:25,279
Speaker 1: think it makes the point well. Mary Rose Wilcox, who

608
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:27,720
Speaker 1: is Latina and the only Democrat on the Maricopa County

609
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 1: Board of Supervisors, remembers a quite different sheriff. Our pile

610
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 1: was not like this before. She told me he was flamboyant.

611
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 1: But I don't know this guy. For Wilcox, The last

612
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 1: straw came this February, when our pile marched more than

613
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 1: two hundred undocumented immigrants shackled together to a new tent jail,

614
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 1: parading them before news cameras. Our pile had staged prisoner

615
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:50,279
Speaker 1: marches before. In two thousand and five, he forced nearly

616
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 1: seven hundred prisoners wearing nothing but pink underwear and flipflops,

617
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:56,880
Speaker 1: to shuffle four blocks through the Arizona heat pink handcuffed

618
00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:59,720
Speaker 1: together to a new jail. When they arrived, one prisoner

619
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 1: was to cut a pink ribbon for the cameras. This

620
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:05,760
Speaker 1: elaborate degradation, which is remembered fondly by Sheriff Joe's fans,

621
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 1: was ostensibly in the name of security. The men were

622
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 1: strip searched both before and after the march, but our

623
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 1: Pile also told reporters I put them on the streets

624
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:17,240
Speaker 1: so everybody could see them. He marched another nine hundred

625
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 1: this April. So I don't know. It's interesting to me

626
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 1: what Wilcox reports. Right, this woman who has no vested

627
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 1: interest in making him sound good, who has been a

628
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 1: political on the different side of the aisle for him

629
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 1: for a while, but was friendly with him, and says

630
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:36,359
Speaker 1: that like this changes him. And there's another quote I'm

631
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:39,319
Speaker 1: going to read from that article about Joe ore Pio

632
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:45,319
Speaker 1: hasn't a Colbert Report appearance in two thousand nine. Um,

633
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:49,880
Speaker 1: and it's it's kind of gross. Uh yeah, I'm just

634
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 1: gonna read it. We were in New York and he

635
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 1: was about to be interviewed on the Colbert Report. Is

636
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:55,800
Speaker 1: this the green room? He asked? These walls are blue?

637
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 1: Are they going to powder me? The producer, an intense

638
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 1: young woman, persisted, try to be funny. She said, he

639
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,759
Speaker 1: will be funnier than you are. Pile shrugged. He wasn't

640
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:07,839
Speaker 1: familiar with Colbert Show. I'm pretty funny, he said. From

641
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 1: a rumpledmanilla envelope, he pulled two pairs of pink boxer shorts.

642
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 1: I brought the underwear, he said. The producer stared. An

643
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 1: assistant looked on helplessly. Then the producer reached for the shorts. Thanks,

644
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 1: she said, do you want me? Don't you want me

645
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 1: to take these on the show? No, our pile looked nonplussed. Well,

646
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 1: at least let me sign him. He autographed the shorts,

647
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 1: one pair bear out of jail and one for the

648
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:34,799
Speaker 1: producer's son. The Colbart segment was, Yeah, it's just like

649
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:40,239
Speaker 1: that's something wrong with a guy too, Like not that

650
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 1: you should feel bad for this monster, but like that's

651
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 1: not that's something wrong with a dude. Symbol of a

652
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:51,840
Speaker 1: broken brain. Yeah, your brain. Yeah, you know, I was

653
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 1: thinking earlier about um, about Michael Flynn, the general turn

654
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:02,920
Speaker 1: trumpst maniac, and how so many people that served with

655
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:08,359
Speaker 1: him in Afghanistan interact were totally baffled by who this

656
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 1: guy had become and that you know, he was a

657
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:15,399
Speaker 1: little bit uh you know, you know, original thinker. Let's say,

658
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 1: uh in the in the mid two thousand's that but

659
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:21,480
Speaker 1: by the time he had gotten uh you know, into

660
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 1: the tens, just this guy's brain cracked in half and

661
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 1: just became like this weird conspiracy peddling you know, anything

662
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:36,400
Speaker 1: for filing troll. It's so weird. It is like you

663
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,480
Speaker 1: get addicted to the outrage, you get addicted to the

664
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 1: to the trolling, and you start to maybe believe your

665
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 1: own nonsense. I don't know, it's just it's so weird.

666
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 1: And there's so many of these guys now out out

667
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 1: today that are like, you know, if they're like Greg

668
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:58,279
Speaker 1: Kelly or Charlie Kirk or or you know, your boy

669
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:06,960
Speaker 1: Ben Shapiro like that are just addicted to being horrible morons.

670
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 1: It's crazy their brains have broken. Yeah, It's it's really

671
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:15,320
Speaker 1: bleak because I don't know, you know, I've heard a

672
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:18,840
Speaker 1: number of theories about like guys like this who have

673
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:22,319
Speaker 1: this broadly normal career for a while and then like

674
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:26,400
Speaker 1: lose their mind at a certain point, seemingly, um, guys

675
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 1: like Flynn and stuff. And I don't know, I I

676
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:34,560
Speaker 1: think the Internet is doing a kind of damage to

677
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 1: our brains that the present state of neuroscience isn't well

678
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 1: suited towards analyzing, but we will eventually come to understand

679
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 1: the scope in a pretty profound way. Like there's something yeah, yeah,

680
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 1: there's like forget long COVID. It's like there's like long

681
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:59,319
Speaker 1: Twitter brain. Yeah, long Twitter brain. Yeah. Um, now that

682
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 1: Cold Bear segment was brutally awkward and first off, kind

683
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 1: of frustrating that Steven had him on in the first place.

684
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:07,840
Speaker 1: Our Pio did it to plug one of his memoirs,

685
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 1: and Colbert obliged him in that. But Joel's Joe's whole

686
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:13,920
Speaker 1: appearance on the show is very revealing. The other guests

687
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:16,319
Speaker 1: that night was kin Quinn, who was the second mate

688
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 1: from a container ship that was famously hijacked near Somalia

689
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:23,720
Speaker 1: that April. He was one of the guys with Captain Phillips. Right,

690
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 1: so this guy has just gotten out of being captured

691
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 1: and stuff. He tells his story. The audience is very moved.

692
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:31,360
Speaker 1: They give him a standing ovation, pretty normal for a

693
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:33,720
Speaker 1: guy who's just been through like a deft defying spirit

694
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 1: experience like that. But Joe gets really jealous because this

695
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 1: other guys getting more intention than him. So when it

696
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:45,720
Speaker 1: was his turn, he tells Stephen Colbert this, the Republic

697
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:47,920
Speaker 1: did a poll last week Who's your hero? And I

698
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:50,720
Speaker 1: beat out Tillman. I beat all these guys. I'm not bragging.

699
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:58,239
Speaker 1: I'm just saying. He's referring to the NFL star from

700
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 1: the Arizona Cardinals, who then went to Afghanistan and got

701
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:06,759
Speaker 1: killed shortly thereafter. You can listen in the Army hero

702
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:14,360
Speaker 1: than that guy gotten wayboard gun fights to totally happened Turkey.

703
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:21,839
Speaker 1: I could out type Pat Tillman, that's for sure, So

704
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:25,520
Speaker 1: well Sheriff, It's just such a weird brag, like this

705
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:28,280
Speaker 1: guy just got kidnapped. Man, let him have his moment

706
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 1: in the sun, right right, he got kidnapped by the

707
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:37,360
Speaker 1: smiling pirate. No big deal, No big deal, well Sheriff.

708
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:40,520
Speaker 1: Joe enjoyed being a celebrity sheriff, doing photo ops with

709
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 1: every major right wing politician and showing up on TV constantly.

710
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:48,480
Speaker 1: His inmates continued to suffer. One case study was Ambrett Spencer.

711
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:51,480
Speaker 1: In two thousand eight, she was arrested for drunk driving,

712
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:53,960
Speaker 1: and months later, while her case made its way through

713
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 1: the court system, she got pregnant. Now at this time,

714
00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 1: when she gets pregnant, she's in treatment, she's not drinking.

715
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:02,560
Speaker 1: And Brett, who was black, was eventually sentenced and was

716
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 1: sent to Joe R. Pios Tent City to do I

717
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 1: think six months or something. So she goes through the

718
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:11,520
Speaker 1: late stages of her pregnancy and Joe R. Pios Tent

719
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:15,400
Speaker 1: City doctor visits prior to her incarceration confirmed that the

720
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:19,160
Speaker 1: fetus was healthy, but after a month in Sheriff Joe's custody,

721
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:23,280
Speaker 1: she grew terribly ill. Now we don't know specifically why.

722
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:27,080
Speaker 1: That year alone, at least four other pregnant inmates reached

723
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:29,920
Speaker 1: out to the Phoenix New Times to report miscarriages or

724
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:32,879
Speaker 1: still births in our pios, tent city, tin jail, whatever

725
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 1: you wanna call it. They suggest a wide variety of causes.

726
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 1: The food Joe feeds as inmates was often trotting. The

727
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 1: water well was infested with mice and mice feces since

728
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:46,400
Speaker 1: two thousand five, and mice carry the toxoplasma parasite that

729
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:50,160
Speaker 1: can cause birth defects. Prenatal vitamins were also forbidden for

730
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:53,840
Speaker 1: pregnant inmates. To cut costs, Joe made sure to avoid

731
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:57,439
Speaker 1: hiring medical staff with proper training. The night Ambrett got sick,

732
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:01,440
Speaker 1: the nurse on duty had no prenatal education. Despite ambrett

733
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:04,719
Speaker 1: severe pain, the nurse decided her case was not an emergency.

734
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:08,400
Speaker 1: An hour later, Ambrett passed out. The nurse checked her

735
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:11,720
Speaker 1: blood pressure and realized it was fatally low. She couldn't

736
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:14,799
Speaker 1: even get an ivy into the woman's arm. By the

737
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:17,359
Speaker 1: time Spencer was finally taken to the hospital, she had

738
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 1: been in severe pain and kept from seeing a doctor

739
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 1: for nearly four hours. Her child was delivered dead. The

740
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:27,800
Speaker 1: cause was placental abruption, a condition caused by internal bleeding.

741
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:30,759
Speaker 1: The treatment is immediate delivery, and this was a very

742
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:34,239
Speaker 1: late pregnancy. The baby would have probably survived if she

743
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:36,360
Speaker 1: had been taken to a hospital immediately and had the

744
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 1: baby delivered. The most horrifying detail about that story is

745
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 1: that for so Joe had specific policies when his inmates

746
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:47,960
Speaker 1: gave birth that they were not allowed to hold their

747
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:50,839
Speaker 1: children after birth. It was to be taken from them immediately.

748
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:54,120
Speaker 1: The staff violated that rule in this case to let

749
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 1: her hold her dead child. Um and direct and now

750
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 1: I'm sure that are Pio's allies in the conservative um

751
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:09,800
Speaker 1: part of of Arizona who are pro life. Of course,

752
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 1: we're outraged by this, uh and and hated him for

753
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:17,120
Speaker 1: for violating their pro life principles. Right, I don't think they.

754
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:20,799
Speaker 1: There doesn't seem to have been any kind of dust stop.

755
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 1: I mean, the Phoenix New Times made a big deal

756
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:25,400
Speaker 1: about it, but none of his voters cared. Um it

757
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:28,759
Speaker 1: did not harm him in the next election. Now, the

758
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 1: death of Ambrett Spencer's baby did not make it into

759
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:35,680
Speaker 1: any statistics about death in Sheriff Joe's tin jail. As

760
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 1: a rule, deaths of inmates very rarely did. In two

761
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:42,440
Speaker 1: thousand fifteen, The New Times attempted to find out how

762
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:47,080
Speaker 1: many people actually died in his jail. They spent six

763
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:49,960
Speaker 1: months waiting for records requests from Joe R. Pio's office

764
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:52,680
Speaker 1: to no avail. Eventually, they were forced to check other

765
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:55,360
Speaker 1: government databases, where they found at least a hundred and

766
00:44:55,400 --> 00:45:00,560
Speaker 1: sixty reported deaths. Quote, but that is an yeah is

767
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 1: the minimum. That's all they were able to find evidence of,

768
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 1: because again, Joe wouldn't give them any data on this.

769
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:11,759
Speaker 1: The Sheriff's department has deliberately obfuscated how many people are

770
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:16,680
Speaker 1: dying in the tents jails. Oh God, the truthless seems

771
00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 1: like a very high number of people dying in we'll

772
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 1: talk about how high it is. The truth is that

773
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:27,960
Speaker 1: no outside authority keeps track of how many people die

774
00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 1: from brutality, neglect, disease, bad health, or old age in

775
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:34,680
Speaker 1: our pios jails. Federal Judge Neil Wake twice has ruled

776
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:37,279
Speaker 1: that medical care is so deficient in the jails as

777
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:41,840
Speaker 1: to be unconstitutional. The Department of Justice supposedly monitors conditions

778
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 1: in the jails, but has shown little or no appetite

779
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:46,920
Speaker 1: for confronting our pile. What my research discovered is that

780
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 1: people hang themselves in the jail at a rate that

781
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 1: dwarfs other county lockups, and many of the deaths are

782
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:54,440
Speaker 1: classified as having occurred in the county hospital or in

783
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:57,680
Speaker 1: a cell without further explanation. People die and no one

784
00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 1: asks how, no one asks why. Ring the reign of

785
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:03,440
Speaker 1: Sheriff Joe R. Pio, research requested and provided from the

786
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:06,759
Speaker 1: Corners Office showed a hundred and fifty seven deaths in

787
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:09,319
Speaker 1: and of itself. That number is not necessarily out of

788
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:12,120
Speaker 1: line with jail deaths and other jurisdictions, but digging into

789
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:15,520
Speaker 1: this data raises troubling questions, particularly when compared with jails

790
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:19,040
Speaker 1: across America. Suicide is an all too frequent consequence of

791
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:22,360
Speaker 1: incarceration in jailhouse deaths across the nation. The U. S

792
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:25,319
Speaker 1: Department of Justice notes the following rates of suicide over

793
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:27,640
Speaker 1: a three year period from two thousand to two thousand

794
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:32,920
Speaker 1: two Los Angeles jails eleven percent, New York jails nine percent,

795
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:38,480
Speaker 1: Cook County jails six percent, Philadelphia jails fourteen percent, Harris

796
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 1: County jails percent, Dade County jails six percent. Now, during

797
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:46,880
Speaker 1: that same period, the suicide rate among jail deaths and

798
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:53,120
Speaker 1: Sheriff Joe R. Pio's lock ups was twenty four percent. Yeah.

799
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:56,240
Speaker 1: In two thousand eight, two reporters from the East Valley

800
00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:59,719
Speaker 1: Tribune Americopa County paper did a five part study into

801
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:03,520
Speaker 1: the CSOs operations. They found that due to the sheer

802
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 1: amount of resources are Pio devoted to going after immigrants,

803
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:09,920
Speaker 1: response times to emergency calls to the Sheriff's office had

804
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:14,319
Speaker 1: increased by a significant margin, arrest rates had dropped, and

805
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 1: dozens of violent crimes had not been investigated. The series

806
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:21,880
Speaker 1: won a Pulitzer four months after it was published. Joe R.

807
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:25,759
Speaker 1: Pio one reelection, Oh my god, this guy really is.

808
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:30,879
Speaker 1: He's a supervillain. He's causing more crime than he's then

809
00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:35,120
Speaker 1: then he's uh, then he's you know fixing or that

810
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:39,279
Speaker 1: he's you know stopping. He's getting people killed left and right,

811
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:46,040
Speaker 1: which just uh suicide rate. He's torturing these people at

812
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:52,279
Speaker 1: minimum sending out crazy posses of armed yahoo's to terrorize

813
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:55,920
Speaker 1: these cities and neighborhoods, and even then its own city hall,

814
00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:02,120
Speaker 1: you know, denying pregnant women medical treatment and making them

815
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:06,960
Speaker 1: eat mouse species water. This guy is like what is it?

816
00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:12,200
Speaker 1: You know, he's like, you know, a psalm Uh. Bad guy.

817
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 1: He's like he's a mustache twirling fucking monster. Holy shit. Yeah,

818
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:19,360
Speaker 1: I mean this guy was bad, but I didn't realize

819
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:21,440
Speaker 1: it was like this. Yeah, it's and and to be clear,

820
00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:26,839
Speaker 1: it's of jailed deaths or suicide. It's not right. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

821
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:28,400
Speaker 1: I just want to make that clear for listeners. So

822
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:30,440
Speaker 1: people aren't like a quarter of people are killing No,

823
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:33,920
Speaker 1: it's not that that would be that would have been

824
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:36,640
Speaker 1: quite a bit of a different story. Um to a

825
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:40,120
Speaker 1: quarter of me has died inside listening to this. Yeah, yeah,

826
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:44,480
Speaker 1: it's it's outrageous. Um, it's just horribly fucked up. But

827
00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:49,160
Speaker 1: you know what's not horribly fucked up. It's the ads.

828
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:51,960
Speaker 1: It's the sponsors of this podcast. No that that that's

829
00:48:52,000 --> 00:49:04,799
Speaker 1: what's fine and dandy. We're back. Okay. So in two

830
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:08,959
Speaker 1: thousand nine, Barack Obama's Justice Department opened a massive investigation

831
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:12,640
Speaker 1: into the mc s O. Among other things, they found

832
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:16,080
Speaker 1: that deputies had used stunned guns repeatedly on prisoners who

833
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:19,720
Speaker 1: were already strapped into a restraint chair. Two men had died,

834
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:22,920
Speaker 1: costing the county more than fourteen million dollars in settlements.

835
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:25,360
Speaker 1: By two thousand nine, the brutality of Joe and his

836
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:28,880
Speaker 1: deputies had cost the county more than forty three million dollars.

837
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:32,680
Speaker 1: Merricopa County Jail generated lawsuits at a rate that was

838
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:37,040
Speaker 1: unprecedented in the nation. One Phoenix New Times investigation found

839
00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:39,319
Speaker 1: that between two thousand four and two thousand eight, the

840
00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:43,280
Speaker 1: county jails of New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, and Houston,

841
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:46,959
Speaker 1: which combined holds six times as many inmates as Maricopa Jail,

842
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:50,400
Speaker 1: were sued a total of forty three times. During the

843
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:53,719
Speaker 1: same period, our PIOS department was sued almost twenty two

844
00:49:53,840 --> 00:50:08,560
Speaker 1: hundred times in federal two hundred. Yeah. M oh my god, Yeah, yeah,

845
00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:12,320
Speaker 1: that's incredible. Yeah, it's it's it's out of it's goddamn mind.

846
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:17,400
Speaker 1: Like that's when you compare, because like those are nice jails.

847
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:20,400
Speaker 1: It's not like that. It's not like fucking Los Angeles

848
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:23,680
Speaker 1: County Lockup. Is the Shangri law. Like that's how bad

849
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:28,320
Speaker 1: Joe hard Bios jail is. The l A County Sheriff's

850
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:35,000
Speaker 1: department is notoriously fun horribly racist. Yeah, really bad like

851
00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:40,360
Speaker 1: Sheriff's department. But like dozens of people, dozens of sheriff's

852
00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 1: deputies have been charged with all kinds of nonsense. But

853
00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:48,560
Speaker 1: like forty three lawsuits and that's New York, Chicago, Los Angeles,

854
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:53,200
Speaker 1: and Houston combined to twenty two hundred for Americo paccaunty.

855
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:56,319
Speaker 1: Like when you put it, it's just out it's a

856
00:50:56,400 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 1: fucking outrageous. Also, like you imagine being like, okay, you're

857
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:05,560
Speaker 1: like you go to law school, you study really hard,

858
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 1: and you know, you you stay up all night, you know,

859
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:12,480
Speaker 1: trying to race those tests. You work hard to pass

860
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:15,840
Speaker 1: the bar, and you finally get a plumb gig in

861
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:19,520
Speaker 1: you know whatever Phoenix or Mas or what have you,

862
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:22,840
Speaker 1: and you know it's your first job, and your job

863
00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:29,800
Speaker 1: is to defend Joe R. Pios crazy evil ten jail

864
00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:33,880
Speaker 1: over over and over and over and over and over again.

865
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:39,240
Speaker 1: It's so yeah, there's not enough liquor in the damn

866
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:48,239
Speaker 1: world to do that job. Yeah all right, so yeah,

867
00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:53,120
Speaker 1: lawsuits in federal court, The New Yorker rights. Remarkably, our

868
00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 1: Pio has paid almost no political price for running jails

869
00:51:56,080 --> 00:52:00,480
Speaker 1: that are so patently dangerous and inadvertently expensive. Indeed, until recently,

870
00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:03,400
Speaker 1: there were few local or state politicians willing to criticize

871
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:06,160
Speaker 1: him publicly. Those who have, including members of the county

872
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:09,239
Speaker 1: Board of Supervisors, which concrols his budget, tend to find

873
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:13,400
Speaker 1: themselves under investigation by the Sheriff's office. Local journalists superturb

874
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:16,360
Speaker 1: our Pio have also been targeted. The Phoenix New Times

875
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:19,120
Speaker 1: ran an investigation of our Pio's real estate dealings that

876
00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 1: included our pios home addressed, which he argued was possibly

877
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:24,520
Speaker 1: a violation of state law. When the paper revealed that

878
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:27,920
Speaker 1: it had received and impossibly brought subpoena demanding, among other things,

879
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:30,880
Speaker 1: the internet records of all visitors to its website in

880
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:36,280
Speaker 1: the previous two and a half years, Sheriff's deputies staged

881
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:38,960
Speaker 1: late night raids on the homes of Michael Lacey and

882
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:42,400
Speaker 1: James Larkin, executives of Village Voice Media, which owns The

883
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:45,279
Speaker 1: New Times. The deputies arrested both men, they said, for

884
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:49,040
Speaker 1: violating grand jury subpoena The county attorney declined to prosecute,

885
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:51,400
Speaker 1: and it turned out that the subpoenas were issued unlawfully.

886
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:56,240
Speaker 1: Outspoken citizens also take their chances. Last December, remarks critical

887
00:52:56,280 --> 00:52:58,720
Speaker 1: of our pile were offered during the public comment period,

888
00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:01,319
Speaker 1: and a board of supervisors, eating and four members of

889
00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:04,680
Speaker 1: the audience were arrested and charged with disorderly conduct for

890
00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:09,480
Speaker 1: clapping their cases are pin he can I ask you

891
00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:16,440
Speaker 1: a question, where is Arizona's very popular Senator John McCain

892
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:19,560
Speaker 1: and all this? That is a good question. I should

893
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:25,799
Speaker 1: where is John McCain, holy cow man? Like you know,

894
00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:29,600
Speaker 1: you're the You're the king of this ship. They didn't

895
00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:31,960
Speaker 1: seem to like each other. Joa. Pio wouldn't call him

896
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:35,919
Speaker 1: a hero. I guess, yeah, but come on, let's see.

897
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:38,359
Speaker 1: I found it. I found an easy Central article John

898
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:42,840
Speaker 1: McCain saw through Jora Pios Bologny. Um, let's see. I

899
00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:46,200
Speaker 1: don't know if he actually did anything. Let's see here. Um,

900
00:53:46,239 --> 00:53:48,560
Speaker 1: it's listing all of the different Sorry, I'm not trying

901
00:53:48,560 --> 00:53:50,320
Speaker 1: to derail your stuff, but I'm just like, this is

902
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:52,920
Speaker 1: a good question. Though, I wanted where is John McCain

903
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:56,759
Speaker 1: in this? Yeah? Where after Trump pardoned our Pio. The

904
00:53:56,800 --> 00:53:59,359
Speaker 1: Senator issued a statement saying Mr. A. Pile was found

905
00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:01,680
Speaker 1: guilty of Chris and Okay, so yeah, I don't think

906
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:06,040
Speaker 1: he did anything. He did much earlier. I don't think

907
00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:10,399
Speaker 1: any at the end. Yeah, I don't think anything. Um, yeah,

908
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:14,080
Speaker 1: I I don't I don't think. Yeah. It seems like

909
00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:17,160
Speaker 1: all of the ship that he uh he well let's

910
00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:21,799
Speaker 1: see here, Oh no, no, you know what in two

911
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:25,680
Speaker 1: thousand twelve. Um, it seems like he had made a

912
00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:29,800
Speaker 1: number of comments in two thousand twelve attacking Jo R. Pio. Okay,

913
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:32,120
Speaker 1: that's still pretty late in the game. Yeah, that's kind

914
00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:36,000
Speaker 1: of um yeah, ye, but definitely he did. He did

915
00:54:36,040 --> 00:54:38,640
Speaker 1: speak out against him over all of the sex well

916
00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:42,600
Speaker 1: some of the sex crimes stuff. Um, okay, all right,

917
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:48,080
Speaker 1: well maybe yeah, I definitely not early on, but he

918
00:54:48,080 --> 00:54:51,640
Speaker 1: he before the Trump years, McCain did eventually speak out

919
00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:53,279
Speaker 1: against him. It looks like, so, I don't know, I'm

920
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:55,160
Speaker 1: not going to make a comprehensive statement about it one

921
00:54:55,160 --> 00:54:59,040
Speaker 1: way or the other. Certainly, I mean, legally, obviously, he

922
00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:02,880
Speaker 1: state congressman can't do anything about a sheriff, but he

923
00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:06,520
Speaker 1: can politically. You said this guy was a political figure.

924
00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:09,239
Speaker 1: He couldn't be. That's why he was. He was he

925
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:12,839
Speaker 1: was too popular. Yeah. Well, and we're about to talk

926
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:16,279
Speaker 1: about why more wasn't done because obviously a lot of

927
00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:20,240
Speaker 1: Republicans let this happen, right, and encouraged it and made

928
00:55:20,239 --> 00:55:23,160
Speaker 1: hay out of it, right, But so did Democrats. And

929
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:26,960
Speaker 1: this is where it gets really frustrating. So President Obama

930
00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:29,520
Speaker 1: is in office for like the last eight years that

931
00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:32,640
Speaker 1: Joe R. Pio was sheriff, when he is getting repeatedly

932
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:36,600
Speaker 1: like attack like, repeatedly shown to be breaking the law,

933
00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:40,880
Speaker 1: and Obama's Justice Department issues repeated condemnations of conditions in

934
00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:43,600
Speaker 1: our Pious jail, but they don't do anything to him.

935
00:55:43,640 --> 00:55:45,759
Speaker 1: There are theories as to why he was allowed to

936
00:55:45,800 --> 00:55:48,879
Speaker 1: thumb his nose at federal judges for so long. One

937
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:52,680
Speaker 1: of them involves his very close relationship with Janet Napolitano,

938
00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:55,600
Speaker 1: the Secretary of Homeland Security from two thousand nine to

939
00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:58,520
Speaker 1: two thousand thirteen. Before that, she was the U S

940
00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:01,480
Speaker 1: Attorney for Arizona. When conditions in Our Pios jails were

941
00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:03,799
Speaker 1: investigated by the d o J for the first time

942
00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:07,120
Speaker 1: in the nineteen nineties, we quoted from that report in

943
00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:09,440
Speaker 1: the first episode but it was horrific, and it noted

944
00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:13,600
Speaker 1: that his treatment of inmates was unconstitutional. Despite this, Janet

945
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:16,319
Speaker 1: did very little to penalize our Pile. She held what

946
00:56:16,360 --> 00:56:19,520
Speaker 1: the New Yorker described as a friendly press conference with him,

947
00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:22,640
Speaker 1: where they announced a settlement with the county sheriff's office.

948
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:26,040
Speaker 1: During that press conference, the Arizona Republic described her as

949
00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:30,759
Speaker 1: quote trading compliments with the sheriff. Napolitano later became the

950
00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:33,920
Speaker 1: state attorney general, where she actively encouraged our Pio to

951
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:36,719
Speaker 1: run his jails however he wanted. When she ran for

952
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:39,799
Speaker 1: governor in two thousand two, our Pile backed her even

953
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:42,800
Speaker 1: though she was a Democrat. He made a campaign commercial

954
00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:45,800
Speaker 1: for her that some suggest was crucial in her narrow victory.

955
00:56:46,160 --> 00:56:48,919
Speaker 1: It was not until two thousand eight, in her second term,

956
00:56:49,080 --> 00:56:51,120
Speaker 1: that she took any kind of stance against our Pio,

957
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:54,080
Speaker 1: ordering that one point six million dollars in funding to

958
00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:58,239
Speaker 1: his department they used to investigate felonies, not immigration. Joe

959
00:56:58,320 --> 00:57:02,239
Speaker 1: later got the funding reinstated. And yeah, there's a lot

960
00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:06,400
Speaker 1: of like he's they don't he's not. He's treated with

961
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:10,080
Speaker 1: kid gloves, even though he's directly disobeying federal judges in

962
00:57:10,080 --> 00:57:12,920
Speaker 1: a lot of cases repeatedly refusing to fix problems with

963
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:17,240
Speaker 1: his jails. Now that happens my my city police department

964
00:57:17,240 --> 00:57:20,680
Speaker 1: in Portland police department are like in contempt of federal

965
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:23,240
Speaker 1: courts that have like like the FBI and SHIP have

966
00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:26,040
Speaker 1: like ruled that they're like their use of force policies

967
00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:28,480
Speaker 1: are wildly out of whack, there being like way too

968
00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:31,400
Speaker 1: violent in ways that are like they've been ordered to

969
00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:34,480
Speaker 1: reform and they keep refusing to. Like, so this does

970
00:57:34,560 --> 00:57:37,600
Speaker 1: happen outside of Arizona, right that you have a police

971
00:57:37,600 --> 00:57:41,080
Speaker 1: department or a sheriff doing something that a federal judge

972
00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:43,800
Speaker 1: says isn't okay, and just no one does anything about it.

973
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:47,919
Speaker 1: But Joe is like the most blatant example of that.

974
00:57:48,320 --> 00:57:53,240
Speaker 1: I understand. How can you? Yeah, there's like people being

975
00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:58,000
Speaker 1: killed in the strail left and right, twenty two complaints

976
00:57:58,040 --> 00:58:02,240
Speaker 1: like who and nobody's step in, Like it's just it's

977
00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:05,320
Speaker 1: it's wild, Yeah, it's um, I mean there are like

978
00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:07,320
Speaker 1: you know, they get the cameras taken out. There are

979
00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:12,560
Speaker 1: judges who are like repeatedly ruling against him to their credit. Um,

980
00:58:12,600 --> 00:58:15,840
Speaker 1: but who's going to force him unless you send in

981
00:58:15,960 --> 00:58:18,040
Speaker 1: like I don't know the FBI or something. I'm guessing

982
00:58:18,080 --> 00:58:20,080
Speaker 1: I think it would be the FBI's purview, right, because

983
00:58:20,080 --> 00:58:21,680
Speaker 1: they're the ones who're supposed to be watching this. But like,

984
00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:27,440
Speaker 1: unless you send in the FEDS after him, who's gonna

985
00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:34,960
Speaker 1: stop him? And and that's kind of nobody wanted that job. Um,

986
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:37,200
Speaker 1: so nobody did anything, I think, is really what it

987
00:58:37,240 --> 00:58:40,600
Speaker 1: comes down to. There's an almost endless flood of horrible

988
00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:44,680
Speaker 1: stories that I could tell about our pios jails, but yeah,

989
00:58:44,720 --> 00:58:46,720
Speaker 1: and have I just don't want to, Like, you know,

990
00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:50,280
Speaker 1: there's there's a there's a limit to which I think

991
00:58:50,320 --> 00:58:54,400
Speaker 1: that's helpful. Um, I've read enough. I think I've read

992
00:58:54,520 --> 00:58:56,720
Speaker 1: enough for people to understand how bad his jail was.

993
00:58:56,880 --> 00:58:59,840
Speaker 1: Joe himself referred to his tent jail as a constant

994
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:03,280
Speaker 1: ration camp on several occasions, and that is a fair description.

995
00:59:03,680 --> 00:59:07,160
Speaker 1: I've spent hours reading the tale reports about the original cazes,

996
00:59:07,160 --> 00:59:10,120
Speaker 1: the early Nazi camps for political prisoners, and some of

997
00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:12,840
Speaker 1: the stories from Joe's jail would fit into those accounts,

998
00:59:12,840 --> 00:59:15,439
Speaker 1: particularly people being strapped to chairs and beaten to death.

999
00:59:16,080 --> 00:59:18,720
Speaker 1: I want to close out, though, by talking more about

1000
00:59:18,760 --> 00:59:22,440
Speaker 1: his posse in two thousand ten, Joe created the Illegal

1001
00:59:22,480 --> 00:59:26,120
Speaker 1: Immigration Operations POSSE, giving hundreds of racists the chance to

1002
00:59:26,120 --> 00:59:28,080
Speaker 1: do what some of them had probably done while wearing

1003
00:59:28,120 --> 00:59:31,600
Speaker 1: clan robes in earlier days. POSSE members would help sheriff

1004
00:59:31,640 --> 00:59:34,439
Speaker 1: deputies bust into places of businesses and homes and tear

1005
00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:37,440
Speaker 1: people away from their families. Actor Steven Seagal and lou

1006
00:59:37,480 --> 00:59:46,320
Speaker 1: Ferrigno helped out. Yeah, yeah, they were both. Yeah, Steven Seagal,

1007
00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:52,680
Speaker 1: Stevens the original. Yeah, yeah, they they they love that ship.

1008
00:59:52,720 --> 00:59:55,960
Speaker 1: Steven Seagal drove a tank through a guy's fence and

1009
00:59:56,000 --> 00:59:58,960
Speaker 1: allegedly killed his dog as part of one of his

1010
00:59:59,080 --> 01:00:03,320
Speaker 1: raids as out. Yeah, that happened. That's a thing that occurred,

1011
01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:09,400
Speaker 1: wrote wrote to Steven Seagal's terrible book. They're like fiction novel,

1012
01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:12,200
Speaker 1: The Way of the Shadow Wolves horrible. Don't read but

1013
01:00:12,280 --> 01:00:16,160
Speaker 1: listen to our episode on it. But yeah, I feel

1014
01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:21,920
Speaker 1: like I've just taken a massive instant hallucinogen. Yeah, like

1015
01:00:24,040 --> 01:00:26,640
Speaker 1: there was something about the Way of the Shadow Wolf there. Yeah,

1016
01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:30,680
Speaker 1: and Steven Seagal driving a tank over someone's dog? Did

1017
01:00:30,720 --> 01:00:36,400
Speaker 1: I just with the original? Incredible? Yeah? Yeah it was

1018
01:00:37,440 --> 01:00:40,040
Speaker 1: because he was Yeah, he was I mean he he

1019
01:00:40,160 --> 01:00:42,480
Speaker 1: filmed a reality show. I don't think his episodes because

1020
01:00:42,480 --> 01:00:44,400
Speaker 1: they used to be a show called Steven Seagal law

1021
01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:48,000
Speaker 1: man um because he he just got to be a

1022
01:00:48,040 --> 01:00:50,360
Speaker 1: cop for some and it's always for like a shady

1023
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:53,560
Speaker 1: sheriff somewhere in the South who's like, yeah, let's bring in,

1024
01:00:53,720 --> 01:00:56,560
Speaker 1: let's let Steven Seagal beat people up as a cop

1025
01:00:57,480 --> 01:01:02,760
Speaker 1: um or for prutent. Yeah, but they were filming. They

1026
01:01:02,800 --> 01:01:05,480
Speaker 1: filmed a season that didn't air, that was supposed to

1027
01:01:05,480 --> 01:01:10,280
Speaker 1: be in um Maricopa County, but it got shut down

1028
01:01:10,360 --> 01:01:12,560
Speaker 1: in part because they were like doing some real like

1029
01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:15,240
Speaker 1: he drove a take through a guy's fence and killed

1030
01:01:15,240 --> 01:01:19,400
Speaker 1: his dog, like some ship went wrong. We gotta we

1031
01:01:19,400 --> 01:01:22,280
Speaker 1: gotta find that tape. Yeah, those teams, we gotta we

1032
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:28,000
Speaker 1: have to find the lost Stevenstology episodes. They've got to

1033
01:01:28,040 --> 01:01:34,440
Speaker 1: be out there, somewhere out there. So. In a statement

1034
01:01:34,480 --> 01:01:37,360
Speaker 1: of interest in a case against the MCSO, the Department

1035
01:01:37,360 --> 01:01:40,640
Speaker 1: of Justice described the decision to use untrained volunteers to

1036
01:01:40,680 --> 01:01:44,520
Speaker 1: search vehicles, transport arrested immigrants, and carry out work site raids.

1037
01:01:44,560 --> 01:01:48,800
Speaker 1: They noted, quote MCSO provides insufficient supervision and oversight to

1038
01:01:48,880 --> 01:01:52,200
Speaker 1: ensure that volunteer POSSE members taking part in immigration enforcement

1039
01:01:52,240 --> 01:01:56,880
Speaker 1: activities do so without engaging in unlawful discrimination. After the

1040
01:01:56,880 --> 01:01:59,880
Speaker 1: Sandy Hook massacre, are PIO sent armed POSSE members to

1041
01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:03,560
Speaker 1: troll elementary schools, even though they were not certified peace officers.

1042
01:02:03,920 --> 01:02:07,000
Speaker 1: The New Time sent a correspondent along one of these rides.

1043
01:02:07,240 --> 01:02:10,400
Speaker 1: Quote the one time Detroit cop explains that he'd rather

1044
01:02:10,440 --> 01:02:12,760
Speaker 1: be in our pios posse in this case that involves

1045
01:02:12,840 --> 01:02:16,920
Speaker 1: driving around fifteen miles per hour around Diamond Canyon Elementary

1046
01:02:16,960 --> 01:02:19,440
Speaker 1: School and through all the dead, silent residential streets that

1047
01:02:19,440 --> 01:02:22,360
Speaker 1: provide access to the school's property. That's his definition of

1048
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:26,080
Speaker 1: a hobby, he explains. And these are the kind of

1049
01:02:26,120 --> 01:02:28,840
Speaker 1: like weirdos who want this gig right like. It's this

1050
01:02:29,040 --> 01:02:32,120
Speaker 1: very bizarre mix of people who had been cops and

1051
01:02:32,200 --> 01:02:36,680
Speaker 1: missed feeling like, you know, important, and people who could

1052
01:02:36,760 --> 01:02:40,720
Speaker 1: never be cops because they were in some cases dangerous criminals,

1053
01:02:40,760 --> 01:02:43,000
Speaker 1: but wanted to play it being a cop. And Joe

1054
01:02:43,040 --> 01:02:45,120
Speaker 1: would let them do it if they'd work for him

1055
01:02:45,120 --> 01:02:49,440
Speaker 1: for free. They were all bad at their job. The

1056
01:02:49,560 --> 01:02:52,960
Speaker 1: commander of his executive posse, who was also the former

1057
01:02:53,040 --> 01:02:56,640
Speaker 1: chairman of the Maricopa County Republican Party. The warehouse that

1058
01:02:56,720 --> 01:02:59,040
Speaker 1: was used for his auto parts business and in nineteen

1059
01:02:59,720 --> 01:03:02,920
Speaker 1: was to make campaign signs for a PIOS reelection campaign.

1060
01:03:03,160 --> 01:03:06,640
Speaker 1: In nineteen seven, it was found that a massive marijuana

1061
01:03:06,680 --> 01:03:09,360
Speaker 1: smuggling network had been using the warehouse to move millions

1062
01:03:09,400 --> 01:03:13,960
Speaker 1: of dollars in the pot. They liked the location because

1063
01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:17,800
Speaker 1: they were always patrol cars parked outside and scared off competitors.

1064
01:03:19,560 --> 01:03:24,240
Speaker 1: M H, I mean, I gotta ask, are we sure

1065
01:03:24,280 --> 01:03:27,680
Speaker 1: that this guy wasn't We absolutely are not sure of that.

1066
01:03:28,920 --> 01:03:32,160
Speaker 1: We are in no way sure of that he hasn't

1067
01:03:32,200 --> 01:03:34,320
Speaker 1: been charged with it as far as I'm aware, but

1068
01:03:34,360 --> 01:03:37,560
Speaker 1: we are not sure of that. So in two thousand nineteen,

1069
01:03:37,640 --> 01:03:40,320
Speaker 1: three years after a Pile left office, an audit was

1070
01:03:40,360 --> 01:03:43,520
Speaker 1: carried out that investigated the POSSE. I'm going to quote

1071
01:03:43,520 --> 01:03:47,320
Speaker 1: from twelve news a local network here. An MCSO audit

1072
01:03:47,360 --> 01:03:51,280
Speaker 1: found poor record keeping had resulted in some unqualified individuals

1073
01:03:51,320 --> 01:03:55,160
Speaker 1: being allowed to continue participating in POSSE activities, For example,

1074
01:03:55,400 --> 01:03:58,920
Speaker 1: individuals with prior arrests and our convictions for domestic violence,

1075
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:02,880
Speaker 1: drug offense, sex offenses, and other criminal activity. Those individuals

1076
01:04:02,880 --> 01:04:06,280
Speaker 1: have been removed from the POSSE. Former Sheriff JR. Pio

1077
01:04:06,360 --> 01:04:08,880
Speaker 1: spoke up for the group of MCSO volunteers Tuesday in

1078
01:04:08,960 --> 01:04:11,640
Speaker 1: a phone interview with twelve News. We did background checks

1079
01:04:11,680 --> 01:04:14,240
Speaker 1: on them, are Pio said, adding any big organization is

1080
01:04:14,240 --> 01:04:16,040
Speaker 1: bound to have a couple of problems, but all on all,

1081
01:04:16,120 --> 01:04:18,520
Speaker 1: that was a great program. We saved the county millions

1082
01:04:18,520 --> 01:04:23,000
Speaker 1: of dollars every year. Now. The new audit information came

1083
01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:25,600
Speaker 1: nearly two weeks after the temporary suspension of the POSSE

1084
01:04:25,720 --> 01:04:28,480
Speaker 1: program by Sheriff Paul Pinzone when he dropped this bombshell

1085
01:04:28,520 --> 01:04:31,120
Speaker 1: at a press conference. Only four of the posse's two

1086
01:04:31,800 --> 01:04:34,800
Speaker 1: five members cleared to carry guns were actually qualified to

1087
01:04:34,840 --> 01:04:39,400
Speaker 1: do so. That's that's the rate of armed possy members

1088
01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:44,480
Speaker 1: had actually legally qualified to carry a gun. Four out

1089
01:04:43,680 --> 01:04:52,680
Speaker 1: of Yeah. That's bad, very bad, bad ratio. Yeah. Yeah.

1090
01:04:54,560 --> 01:04:57,800
Speaker 1: During my research into this, I found a fascinating article

1091
01:04:57,880 --> 01:05:01,880
Speaker 1: in the audivist atavist out a police ativist about a

1092
01:05:01,920 --> 01:05:05,320
Speaker 1: police impersonator named Steve Farzam and his best friend who

1093
01:05:05,320 --> 01:05:07,360
Speaker 1: is a security guard who also pretended to be a

1094
01:05:07,360 --> 01:05:10,080
Speaker 1: cop and eventually ratted Farzam out to the fence for

1095
01:05:10,240 --> 01:05:14,600
Speaker 1: dozens of felonies far Zem was illegally impersonating FBI agents

1096
01:05:14,640 --> 01:05:17,880
Speaker 1: to access sealed records. He was owning, He owned and

1097
01:05:17,920 --> 01:05:21,240
Speaker 1: sold restricted uniforms and machine guns illegally. He was just

1098
01:05:21,400 --> 01:05:25,360
Speaker 1: criming all hardcore. Now, Farzan was not a member of

1099
01:05:25,440 --> 01:05:28,160
Speaker 1: Joe's posse, but his friend was, and the two were

1100
01:05:28,200 --> 01:05:30,960
Speaker 1: working together on getting far Zan membership when their friendship

1101
01:05:31,000 --> 01:05:32,840
Speaker 1: fell apart and one of them ratted the other out.

1102
01:05:33,120 --> 01:05:35,920
Speaker 1: And these are both guys that like dressed up as

1103
01:05:35,960 --> 01:05:38,560
Speaker 1: cops all the time, like drove around l A with

1104
01:05:38,640 --> 01:05:42,080
Speaker 1: like police lights, pretending to be officers illegally carrying out

1105
01:05:42,120 --> 01:05:45,360
Speaker 1: like that. They're that kind of dude um, And they're

1106
01:05:45,360 --> 01:05:47,200
Speaker 1: the kind of people who loved to be a Joe

1107
01:05:47,200 --> 01:05:49,680
Speaker 1: O Pilos posse. And the article gives a description of

1108
01:05:49,680 --> 01:05:51,760
Speaker 1: both men that I think does a good job of

1109
01:05:51,800 --> 01:05:56,120
Speaker 1: explaining the kind of people who volunteered for the posse. Generously,

1110
01:05:56,280 --> 01:05:59,120
Speaker 1: you could call them police wannabes, guys who longed to

1111
01:05:59,120 --> 01:06:02,360
Speaker 1: be associated with, or better yet mistaken for, officers of

1112
01:06:02,400 --> 01:06:06,400
Speaker 1: the law. Dancel and Farsim spent years obsessing over police culture.

1113
01:06:06,600 --> 01:06:09,120
Speaker 1: They became fluent in the lingo from copy in place.

1114
01:06:09,120 --> 01:06:11,880
Speaker 1: If I understand to the numbered codes cops used when

1115
01:06:11,880 --> 01:06:15,240
Speaker 1: speaking over radios. A favorite is four seventeen, which means

1116
01:06:15,360 --> 01:06:18,960
Speaker 1: I'm armed. They accumulated dozens of certificates and skills like

1117
01:06:19,040 --> 01:06:23,520
Speaker 1: handling firearms, picking locks, losing, using tasers, and responding to accidents.

1118
01:06:24,880 --> 01:06:28,880
Speaker 1: And it's that's like the it's cop want to be

1119
01:06:29,000 --> 01:06:33,840
Speaker 1: weirdos um who can't do the job because like they're

1120
01:06:33,960 --> 01:06:37,960
Speaker 1: dangerously unhinged in a lot of cases like far As,

1121
01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:40,400
Speaker 1: it was like selling machine guns to people and stuff,

1122
01:06:40,440 --> 01:06:44,640
Speaker 1: like they're where they've gotten major felony arrest themselves. Yeah,

1123
01:06:44,680 --> 01:06:46,640
Speaker 1: and I think a lot of these guys did, and

1124
01:06:46,640 --> 01:06:48,520
Speaker 1: they want to they want to carry guns, but they

1125
01:06:48,560 --> 01:06:51,120
Speaker 1: can't legally qualify to. And he just gave them this

1126
01:06:51,240 --> 01:06:54,720
Speaker 1: gray area for all of these really dangerous people in

1127
01:06:54,760 --> 01:06:58,360
Speaker 1: a lot of cases. So it's it's giving felons a

1128
01:06:58,520 --> 01:07:03,840
Speaker 1: chance to do cop cosplay. Yes, this cosplay is real,

1129
01:07:04,280 --> 01:07:07,560
Speaker 1: and you can go in and you know, rip off

1130
01:07:07,560 --> 01:07:14,000
Speaker 1: hookers and mowdown neighborhoods and ataxity all. Yeah, and that

1131
01:07:14,080 --> 01:07:16,320
Speaker 1: felons usually, but a lot of them had some sort

1132
01:07:16,320 --> 01:07:20,280
Speaker 1: of I mean some of them were felons, yes, so

1133
01:07:20,440 --> 01:07:22,840
Speaker 1: ex felons whatever you want. I mean, or you know,

1134
01:07:23,120 --> 01:07:25,320
Speaker 1: some proportion, but I mean it sounds like there's a

1135
01:07:25,320 --> 01:07:29,960
Speaker 1: lot more people with records than there were people qualified

1136
01:07:29,960 --> 01:07:34,720
Speaker 1: to do the job. Yes, absolutely, um And because yeah,

1137
01:07:34,760 --> 01:07:38,000
Speaker 1: it's it's not a job for people who are qualified

1138
01:07:38,080 --> 01:07:41,240
Speaker 1: to do it. It's a job for people who want

1139
01:07:41,280 --> 01:07:44,680
Speaker 1: an excuse to be a big man and ideally do

1140
01:07:44,760 --> 01:07:48,480
Speaker 1: some violence with the States backing. So. The case that

1141
01:07:48,520 --> 01:07:51,720
Speaker 1: would eventually lead to shaff Joe's criminal conviction happened in

1142
01:07:51,760 --> 01:07:54,400
Speaker 1: two thousand seven. It started with a traffic stop of

1143
01:07:54,440 --> 01:07:58,160
Speaker 1: a Mexican man with a valid tourists visa. Joe's deputies

1144
01:07:58,240 --> 01:08:01,440
Speaker 1: arrested him and held him illegally for nine hours. The

1145
01:08:01,480 --> 01:08:04,720
Speaker 1: man sued, alleging racial profiling, and the suit turned into

1146
01:08:04,760 --> 01:08:08,320
Speaker 1: a class action for all Latino motorists in Maricopa County.

1147
01:08:08,720 --> 01:08:11,080
Speaker 1: Joe lost the case, and the judge ordered our pile

1148
01:08:11,200 --> 01:08:14,440
Speaker 1: to stop detaining anyone not suspected of a crime. And

1149
01:08:14,480 --> 01:08:17,040
Speaker 1: being in the US illegally is not a crime. It

1150
01:08:17,160 --> 01:08:20,400
Speaker 1: is a civil violation. It is not something normal cops

1151
01:08:20,400 --> 01:08:23,040
Speaker 1: are supposed to be able to do. Ship Over That

1152
01:08:23,120 --> 01:08:26,519
Speaker 1: was two thousand eleven. For the next half decade, multiple

1153
01:08:26,560 --> 01:08:30,040
Speaker 1: federal judges found Our Pile in blatant violation of the injunction.

1154
01:08:30,360 --> 01:08:32,720
Speaker 1: He repeatedly showed up on Fox News to say he

1155
01:08:32,760 --> 01:08:35,320
Speaker 1: would not abide by it. He also lied under oath

1156
01:08:35,360 --> 01:08:38,720
Speaker 1: in an attempt to obstruct further inquiries. After twenty one

1157
01:08:38,800 --> 01:08:41,240
Speaker 1: days of hearings in two thousand fifteen, he was found

1158
01:08:41,240 --> 01:08:43,840
Speaker 1: in civil contempt. The judge in that case was so

1159
01:08:43,920 --> 01:08:46,479
Speaker 1: frustrated by Our Pile that he referred him to another

1160
01:08:46,560 --> 01:08:49,640
Speaker 1: judge for criminal contempt of court. Joe was convicted, and

1161
01:08:49,680 --> 01:08:52,439
Speaker 1: he could have faced six months in jail, but the

1162
01:08:52,520 --> 01:08:56,360
Speaker 1: National Center for Police Defense sent forty thousand petitions to

1163
01:08:56,360 --> 01:08:59,400
Speaker 1: the Justice Department, and with Donald Trump in office, there

1164
01:08:59,439 --> 01:09:02,000
Speaker 1: was never any chance that Joe was going to serve time.

1165
01:09:02,439 --> 01:09:04,960
Speaker 1: Trump pardoned Our Pile when he never served a day

1166
01:09:04,960 --> 01:09:08,680
Speaker 1: in prison. The good news is his political career is

1167
01:09:08,720 --> 01:09:11,479
Speaker 1: pretty dead at this point, although he unfortunately is not.

1168
01:09:11,960 --> 01:09:14,240
Speaker 1: He lost reelection in two thousand and sixteen due to

1169
01:09:14,240 --> 01:09:16,559
Speaker 1: a mix of demographic change. There weren't as many old

1170
01:09:16,560 --> 01:09:18,960
Speaker 1: white people in Amercope as there had been, and due

1171
01:09:19,000 --> 01:09:21,200
Speaker 1: to the fact that by this point vast mountains of

1172
01:09:21,280 --> 01:09:24,479
Speaker 1: lawsuits against his brutal jail had cost the county more

1173
01:09:24,479 --> 01:09:31,479
Speaker 1: than a hundred and forty million dollars just on a

1174
01:09:31,520 --> 01:09:35,360
Speaker 1: conservative small government thing. I can't overstate how expensive it

1175
01:09:35,400 --> 01:09:38,559
Speaker 1: is to have Joe R. Pio is your sheriff. Paul

1176
01:09:38,560 --> 01:09:41,360
Speaker 1: pinzoned the new sheriff, beat our Pile, largely on a

1177
01:09:41,360 --> 01:09:44,439
Speaker 1: platform of cleaning up the MCSO and making it less

1178
01:09:44,479 --> 01:09:48,040
Speaker 1: brutal and thus less expensive. In two thousand eighteen, Joe

1179
01:09:48,040 --> 01:09:50,320
Speaker 1: our Pile ran for Senate and a bid to replace

1180
01:09:50,400 --> 01:09:53,280
Speaker 1: Jeff Flake, and more than anything, a bid to return

1181
01:09:53,360 --> 01:09:56,439
Speaker 1: to political and cultural relevance. The eighty six year old

1182
01:09:56,479 --> 01:09:59,720
Speaker 1: law man slash criminal wound up dead last and to

1183
01:09:59,800 --> 01:10:02,600
Speaker 1: an twenty. He ran for sheriff again, but lost his

1184
01:10:02,640 --> 01:10:05,920
Speaker 1: primary bid to Jerry Sheridan, who basically promised to be

1185
01:10:06,000 --> 01:10:09,320
Speaker 1: Joe R. Pio but less old and disgraced. Sheridan went

1186
01:10:09,360 --> 01:10:12,120
Speaker 1: on to lose badly to the incumbent pen Zone and

1187
01:10:12,160 --> 01:10:16,679
Speaker 1: that's where things stand today. Jesus, I can't I keep

1188
01:10:16,720 --> 01:10:22,840
Speaker 1: thinking about this guy who would literally uh pick up

1189
01:10:22,840 --> 01:10:26,400
Speaker 1: people for the crime of driving while Mexican and put

1190
01:10:26,479 --> 01:10:29,960
Speaker 1: him in his like torture chambers, his own concert, and

1191
01:10:30,000 --> 01:10:32,560
Speaker 1: put him in a concentration camp by his own admission.

1192
01:10:32,920 --> 01:10:36,599
Speaker 1: Would then was then free to go on Fox News

1193
01:10:36,880 --> 01:10:42,240
Speaker 1: and say funk off to a federal judge. And you know,

1194
01:10:42,479 --> 01:10:48,000
Speaker 1: it's like he he felt not wrongly, that he was

1195
01:10:48,080 --> 01:10:52,200
Speaker 1: like allowed he could continue his criming and his flaunting

1196
01:10:52,200 --> 01:10:55,120
Speaker 1: these the law as long as he wanted. And he could,

1197
01:10:56,680 --> 01:11:00,000
Speaker 1: he and his team of armed Yahoo's could pick up

1198
01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:05,840
Speaker 1: whoever they wanted, treat him however they want, with no

1199
01:11:05,920 --> 01:11:11,880
Speaker 1: indications they did any crimes whatsoever. Yep, yep. And Donald

1200
01:11:11,920 --> 01:11:15,720
Speaker 1: Trump loved this guy. We didn't even I feel like

1201
01:11:15,720 --> 01:11:17,360
Speaker 1: we didn't even get into that. But I mean that

1202
01:11:17,400 --> 01:11:21,320
Speaker 1: part I remember it is Donald Trump like praise this guy.

1203
01:11:22,280 --> 01:11:27,759
Speaker 1: You know, Seven Ways of Sunday. Yeah, it's uh, it's horrible.

1204
01:11:28,680 --> 01:11:32,479
Speaker 1: It's just incredibly frustrating. I think probably I don't know

1205
01:11:32,720 --> 01:11:36,400
Speaker 1: if he if. I'm more frustrated by his partner, Maniforts parton.

1206
01:11:36,439 --> 01:11:42,599
Speaker 1: They're both pretty awful. But yep, yeah, pretty bad guy.

1207
01:11:42,680 --> 01:11:47,600
Speaker 1: No kind of sucks, Joe Pious. This was not the

1208
01:11:47,680 --> 01:11:53,519
Speaker 1: uplifting episode, you promise me. Yeah, I apologize. I had

1209
01:11:53,520 --> 01:11:57,240
Speaker 1: to lie to get you in the chair talking about

1210
01:11:57,720 --> 01:12:04,200
Speaker 1: Pio famed philanthropists. It's like he doesn't, I mean, and

1211
01:12:04,240 --> 01:12:07,400
Speaker 1: the come up and is like Okay, great, he like

1212
01:12:07,720 --> 01:12:12,559
Speaker 1: got charged with criminal contempt of court like six you know,

1213
01:12:12,640 --> 01:12:18,960
Speaker 1: after six straight years of ignoring don't don't detain people

1214
01:12:19,000 --> 01:12:24,880
Speaker 1: for no reason like ignoring everything else. Yeah, it's wild.

1215
01:12:26,080 --> 01:12:31,400
Speaker 1: And you know, the people that enabled him are are

1216
01:12:31,600 --> 01:12:35,080
Speaker 1: on the hook for this, for his crimes too. Let's

1217
01:12:35,080 --> 01:12:37,040
Speaker 1: be clear about that. If you if you kept voting

1218
01:12:37,080 --> 01:12:40,519
Speaker 1: for this guy time after time after time, you're on

1219
01:12:40,560 --> 01:12:43,040
Speaker 1: the hook for it. If you were a politician, it

1220
01:12:43,120 --> 01:12:48,360
Speaker 1: sounds like democrat. Some democrats democrats for sure. Yeah, you're

1221
01:12:48,479 --> 01:12:51,160
Speaker 1: you enabled that ship and you are part of You

1222
01:12:51,200 --> 01:12:55,120
Speaker 1: are part of it, and this there has to be

1223
01:12:55,160 --> 01:12:57,680
Speaker 1: the conversation to the there's a lot of media that

1224
01:12:57,720 --> 01:13:03,640
Speaker 1: are complicit. Oh my, if you if you were, you know,

1225
01:13:04,360 --> 01:13:07,960
Speaker 1: buying into this guy's you know, suffering porn, you know,

1226
01:13:08,120 --> 01:13:11,200
Speaker 1: you were part of the problem. And you know, I

1227
01:13:11,439 --> 01:13:13,200
Speaker 1: like not to get too meta, but I feel like

1228
01:13:13,320 --> 01:13:17,000
Speaker 1: his story is like just a story about how fucked

1229
01:13:17,040 --> 01:13:23,360
Speaker 1: up our entire political media criminal justice ecosystem is right

1230
01:13:23,360 --> 01:13:26,040
Speaker 1: now and how easy it is for like a bad

1231
01:13:26,080 --> 01:13:30,679
Speaker 1: actor to exploit yep. As if we needed another lesson,

1232
01:13:31,840 --> 01:13:35,240
Speaker 1: because if we don't have a lesson after lesson every day.

1233
01:13:35,560 --> 01:13:38,720
Speaker 1: But here's another one. Here is another one, and a

1234
01:13:38,760 --> 01:13:44,360
Speaker 1: particularly horrifying one for sure. Um and like and like

1235
01:13:44,520 --> 01:13:50,960
Speaker 1: his ability to wiggle into the like you know, like

1236
01:13:51,479 --> 01:13:57,320
Speaker 1: parasitically wiggle into the cerebellum of America and and be

1237
01:13:57,640 --> 01:14:04,120
Speaker 1: unable to for to be cast out is just it's wild.

1238
01:14:04,479 --> 01:14:09,680
Speaker 1: Like his the length of of his criminal service is

1239
01:14:09,680 --> 01:14:13,960
Speaker 1: is incredible. Yep, yeah, it's I mean, he's in there

1240
01:14:14,000 --> 01:14:18,240
Speaker 1: for so fucking long. Um, And I'm sure there's more.

1241
01:14:18,280 --> 01:14:20,960
Speaker 1: I just haven't found a ton of granular detail about

1242
01:14:20,960 --> 01:14:23,240
Speaker 1: his time, you know, in the Bureau of min Narcotics

1243
01:14:23,280 --> 01:14:26,000
Speaker 1: and then the d e A. But I'm sure there's

1244
01:14:26,040 --> 01:14:28,439
Speaker 1: fucked up ship that we we we don't get from

1245
01:14:28,479 --> 01:14:33,280
Speaker 1: that period, just knowing the kind of guy that he is, right, Um,

1246
01:14:33,320 --> 01:14:35,960
Speaker 1: but yeah, I did have one thought about that though,

1247
01:14:36,400 --> 01:14:41,960
Speaker 1: about the Elvis thing. Remember, um, how Elvis like got

1248
01:14:41,960 --> 01:14:46,160
Speaker 1: a badge to be a fake narcotics asan Oh yeah

1249
01:14:46,160 --> 01:14:50,720
Speaker 1: he didn't do that. Huh Maybe maybe maybe you know,

1250
01:14:50,960 --> 01:14:57,240
Speaker 1: that's the sheriff Joe connection, that's the shared Joe connection. Yeah,

1251
01:14:57,280 --> 01:15:00,879
Speaker 1: that I might. I might believe that at then actually

1252
01:15:01,080 --> 01:15:04,960
Speaker 1: I might believe that. Then then everything else is all good. Yeah,

1253
01:15:05,400 --> 01:15:12,599
Speaker 1: mind sure, if Joe, if you got Elvis his badge,

1254
01:15:12,720 --> 01:15:19,960
Speaker 1: if you got narc yeah, it's all good, dude. Um okay,

1255
01:15:20,200 --> 01:15:24,280
Speaker 1: so uh no, uh you got any got any plug doubles,

1256
01:15:25,400 --> 01:15:28,559
Speaker 1: don't any pluggables, nothing really a plug. But you can

1257
01:15:28,600 --> 01:15:31,760
Speaker 1: find me at Noah Shackman. That's n O H s

1258
01:15:31,920 --> 01:15:35,519
Speaker 1: h A h t A man now Ah Shackman on Twitter.

1259
01:15:36,640 --> 01:15:39,320
Speaker 1: I'll be starting my new job at Rolling Stone Magazine

1260
01:15:40,200 --> 01:15:45,320
Speaker 1: real soon, and uh we're gonna have some fun uh

1261
01:15:45,600 --> 01:15:49,920
Speaker 1: causing trouble uh for the ship bags of the world.

1262
01:15:50,520 --> 01:15:56,120
Speaker 1: Looking forward to it. Yeah, well, good luck doing that. Um, thankfully.

1263
01:15:56,120 --> 01:15:58,439
Speaker 1: It looks like you won't have Joe on your roster

1264
01:15:58,560 --> 01:16:01,920
Speaker 1: because my god, he can't possibly win election again for anything.

1265
01:16:01,960 --> 01:16:04,880
Speaker 1: He's too old and he's he's too failed. At this point,

1266
01:16:04,880 --> 01:16:06,640
Speaker 1: it has to be the end, right, This has to

1267
01:16:06,680 --> 01:16:11,240
Speaker 1: be the end of him. Have you never heard before? God? Yeah,

1268
01:16:11,320 --> 01:16:18,519
Speaker 1: he just totally he becomes presidents somehow, it's going to

1269
01:16:18,600 --> 01:16:23,840
Speaker 1: be Joe versus Joe. At least nobody can make jokes

1270
01:16:23,840 --> 01:16:27,160
Speaker 1: about Joe Biden being old. Yeah, that that would be

1271
01:16:27,240 --> 01:16:30,160
Speaker 1: the I thought you would think that, given Trump's age,

1272
01:16:30,360 --> 01:16:34,960
Speaker 1: that wouldn't have happened this election either, but nobody, nobody

1273
01:16:35,000 --> 01:16:39,120
Speaker 1: gives a ship about anything anymore. It's amazing and nothing

1274
01:16:39,160 --> 01:16:43,599
Speaker 1: at all matters. Uh Noah, thank you for coming on

1275
01:16:43,640 --> 01:16:47,559
Speaker 1: the show, um, thank you for talking with me about

1276
01:16:47,880 --> 01:16:51,240
Speaker 1: Sheriff Joe, and thank all of you for listening to

1277
01:16:51,280 --> 01:16:53,920
Speaker 1: a tale that I hoped made everyone's life a little

1278
01:16:53,960 --> 01:16:57,920
Speaker 1: bit worse. Just a little bit worse we tried to

1279
01:16:57,920 --> 01:17:05,240
Speaker 1: do in the past. Dudes, Oh God, all right bye

1280
01:17:07,520 --> 01:17:07,800
Speaker 1: MH