WEBVTT - Hell and Gone Murder Line: Karen Mitchell [From the Archives] 0:00:46.550 --> 0:00:51.960 School of Humans. Helen Gone Murder Line actively investigates cold 0:00:52.000 --> 0:00:55.360 case murders in an effort to raise public awareness, invite 0:00:55.400 --> 0:00:58.780 witnesses to come forward, and present evidence that could potentially 0:00:58.820 --> 0:01:02.920 be further investigated by law enforcement. While we value insights 0:01:02.960 --> 0:01:06.140 from family and community members, their statements should not be 0:01:06.180 --> 0:01:09.920 considered evidence and point to the challenges of verifying facts 0:01:10.020 --> 0:01:14.020 inherent in cold cases. We remind listeners that everyone is 0:01:14.080 --> 0:01:17.140 presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. 0:01:17.990 --> 0:01:20.970 Nothing in the podcast is intended to state or imply 0:01:21.030 --> 0:01:23.610 that anyone who has not been convicted of a crime 0:01:24.170 --> 0:01:27.070 is guilty of any wrongdoing. Thanks for listening. 0:01:30.270 --> 0:01:36.170 On Tuesday, November 25th, 1997, Thanksgiving Day, 16 year old 0:01:36.230 --> 0:01:38.850 Karen Mitchell had the day off from school and was 0:01:38.890 --> 0:01:43.490 thinking about her future. Karen grew up in Southern California and, 0:01:43.590 --> 0:01:46.390 for a long time, lived with her mother, Mary Casper, 0:01:46.530 --> 0:01:49.950 and her brother James in Whittier, a town about 20 0:01:49.950 --> 0:01:53.910 miles from Long Beach, California. Karen had been attending high 0:01:53.950 --> 0:01:57.040 school in Long Beach, but Karen had recently made the 0:01:57.080 --> 0:01:59.720 decision to move in with her aunt and uncle to 0:01:59.740 --> 0:02:03.660 a small town in Northern California called Eureka in Humboldt County, 0:02:04.180 --> 0:02:09.130 population 28,000. The Guardian newspaper did an interview with Karen's 0:02:09.150 --> 0:02:13.250 mother Mary and her brother James in 2015. And according 0:02:13.290 --> 0:02:16.750 to what Mary told the newspaper, Karen didn't really fit 0:02:16.870 --> 0:02:19.310 in in Long Beach. She was kind of a hippie, 0:02:19.770 --> 0:02:23.330 very into the environment, animals, and nature. She didn't care 0:02:23.370 --> 0:02:25.580 about fashion or makeup like a lot of the other 0:02:25.610 --> 0:02:28.760 girls in her class. It seemed like there was some 0:02:28.820 --> 0:02:30.140 conflict brewing at home. 0:02:30.760 --> 0:02:31.620 Her mom told. 0:02:31.460 --> 0:02:34.320 The newspaper they had been butting heads and arguing more often. 0:02:35.020 --> 0:02:37.400 A lot of it seemed to be typical teenage stuff, 0:02:37.840 --> 0:02:40.300 but they came to the conclusion Karen wasn't happy in 0:02:40.340 --> 0:02:43.030 Southern California. It just didn't seem to be the right 0:02:43.070 --> 0:02:47.550 environment for Karen. So Karen and Mary decided that Karen 0:02:47.570 --> 0:02:49.670 would spend a year living with her Aunt Annie and 0:02:49.750 --> 0:02:53.670 Uncle Bill Casper in Northern California. This was a much 0:02:53.750 --> 0:02:57.180 more rural area where she could enjoy nature and also 0:02:57.640 --> 0:03:00.120 thought to be a safer area with a slower pace 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:03.820 of living. After living in Eureka for a few months, 0:03:04.430 --> 0:03:07.070 It seemed like Karen was happy there, at least at first. 0:03:07.750 --> 0:03:10.140 She had found a job at a local daycare and 0:03:10.180 --> 0:03:14.420 was scheduled to work on that Tuesday afternoon. Annie Casper, 0:03:14.480 --> 0:03:17.440 Karen's aunt, was her legal guardian. She owned a shoe 0:03:17.480 --> 0:03:21.260 store inside the Bayshore Mall. That day, because there was 0:03:21.300 --> 0:03:23.940 no school, Karen caught a ride with Annie to her 0:03:23.960 --> 0:03:27.200 shoe shop, which was in the 3300 block of Broadway Street, 0:03:27.620 --> 0:03:31.500 the local name for the 101 Freeway. Now, the 101 0:03:31.500 --> 0:03:35.270 freeway was the main and pretty much only thoroughfare through town. 0:03:36.270 --> 0:03:38.030 The mall was about three-quarters of. 0:03:38.010 --> 0:03:40.510 A mile to a mile from Humboldt Child Care Council, 0:03:40.970 --> 0:03:44.990 the daycare where Karen worked. Karen spent some time hanging 0:03:45.070 --> 0:03:47.380 out with her aunt at the store. Then she left 0:03:47.400 --> 0:03:50.520 for work. Her route took her north on a street 0:03:50.780 --> 0:03:54.720 that in Eureka is sometimes referred to as Broadway. Karen 0:03:54.780 --> 0:03:57.700 headed on foot in the direction of West Sonoma Street 0:03:57.780 --> 0:03:58.240 in Eureka. 0:03:58.840 --> 0:04:01.760 To her workplace at around 2.45 p.m. 0:04:02.700 --> 0:04:05.420 Karen's trip to work should have taken her about a 0:04:05.480 --> 0:04:09.100 mile down the 101, a highway that was heavily populated, 0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:10.980 and this was in the middle of the day. 0:04:11.980 --> 0:04:13.200 But her Aunt. 0:04:13.150 --> 0:04:15.710 Annie came to the child care center around three hours 0:04:15.770 --> 0:04:18.550 later to pick Karen up. That's when she figured out 0:04:18.870 --> 0:04:22.550 Karen never made it to work. Annie immediately knew that 0:04:22.590 --> 0:04:26.670 something was wrong. She called Karen's mother, Mary, in Southern California. 0:04:27.250 --> 0:04:30.730 They called the police to report Karen missing. Mary drove 0:04:30.790 --> 0:04:34.010 up to Eureka to help look for Karen. But Mary 0:04:34.090 --> 0:04:39.410 never saw her daughter alive again. Karen Mitchell was gone. 0:04:41.090 --> 0:04:44.250 I'm Katherine Townsend. Over the past seven years of making 0:04:44.270 --> 0:04:47.310 my true crime podcast, Helen Gone, I've learned that there 0:04:47.370 --> 0:04:49.890 is no such thing as a small town where murder 0:04:49.930 --> 0:04:53.400 never happens. I have received hundreds of messages from people 0:04:53.530 --> 0:04:55.980 all around the country saying asking for help with an 0:04:56.060 --> 0:04:59.980 unsolved murder that's affected them, their families, and their communities. 0:05:00.720 --> 0:05:02.580 If you have a case you'd like me and my 0:05:02.620 --> 0:05:04.700 team to look into, you can reach out to us 0:05:04.820 --> 0:05:05.460 at our Hell. 0:05:05.300 --> 0:05:06.500 And Gone Murder Line at 678-744-6145. 0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:07.820 That's 678-744-6145. Or you can send us a message on 0:05:07.840 --> 0:05:09.560 Instagram at hellandgonepod. This is Hell and Gone Murder Line. 0:06:05.100 --> 0:06:09.150 Karen Mitchell was born on November 30th, 1980. She grew 0:06:09.210 --> 0:06:12.490 up in Whittier, about 25 miles from Long Beach, California, 0:06:12.830 --> 0:06:16.230 and stayed there through junior high school. Her mom and 0:06:16.410 --> 0:06:19.990 aunt told Dateline that even as a little girl, Karen 0:06:20.050 --> 0:06:24.050 cared deeply about people and causes. She did things like 0:06:24.110 --> 0:06:26.850 attend peace rallies or give money to people in need. 0:06:27.690 --> 0:06:30.550 Her Aunt Annie described her to Dateline as a very 0:06:30.590 --> 0:06:35.030 smart young woman who was an old soul. And even 0:06:35.110 --> 0:06:37.150 though Karen had moved north to be with her aunt 0:06:37.170 --> 0:06:40.690 and uncle, She maintained a close relationship with her mother 0:06:40.730 --> 0:06:44.820 Mary and her brother. They spoke regularly, and Karen came 0:06:44.880 --> 0:06:48.760 home for summer and for school holidays. In fact, Karen 0:06:48.780 --> 0:06:51.920 had been planning to fly home over Christmas. She had 0:06:51.940 --> 0:06:57.330 already bought the tickets, but the tickets remained unused. Police 0:06:57.490 --> 0:07:01.070 asked Karen's family about their last contact with her. Mary 0:07:01.110 --> 0:07:04.350 told investigators that her last phone conversation was on the 0:07:04.390 --> 0:07:08.350 morning that Karen disappeared. Because even though Karen was happy 0:07:08.390 --> 0:07:11.850 in Eureka and making friends and getting good grades, she 0:07:11.930 --> 0:07:14.870 also seemed to be getting restless. She had told her 0:07:14.930 --> 0:07:17.090 mom she hoped to finish high school in the next 0:07:17.130 --> 0:07:20.570 few months, to graduate early, and then to enroll at 0:07:20.630 --> 0:07:24.580 Humboldt State College, the school now known as California State 0:07:24.660 --> 0:07:28.740 Polytechnic University. So Karen and her mother had spent the 0:07:28.780 --> 0:07:32.020 morning chatting and filling out a college application over the phone. 0:07:33.030 --> 0:07:35.840 Both her mom and her aunt said Karen would never 0:07:35.930 --> 0:07:40.700 disappear voluntarily. Soon, police and searchers were scouring the area. 0:07:41.780 --> 0:07:45.480 Karen's missing posters went up everywhere. According to the missing 0:07:45.540 --> 0:07:49.180 persons info posted on the Doe Project, Karen was five 0:07:49.220 --> 0:07:53.250 feet inches tall, weighing 130 pounds. She had short, sandy 0:07:53.290 --> 0:07:56.390 blonde hair that went to her neck and greenish blue eyes. 0:07:57.860 --> 0:08:01.440 She was last seen wearing a long-sleeved tan shirt, baggy 0:08:01.520 --> 0:08:05.120 dark brown corduroy pants, and tan leather shoes with buckles. 0:08:05.740 --> 0:08:09.170 Karen was also wearing some jewelry, a silver necklace with crystal, 0:08:09.430 --> 0:08:12.890 three silver rings, and small hoop earrings. And she was 0:08:12.970 --> 0:08:15.070 carrying a reusable. 0:08:14.710 --> 0:08:15.830 Nalgene water bottle. 0:08:17.070 --> 0:08:21.880 Police scoured the area with canines and cadaver-sniffing dogs. Volunteers 0:08:21.920 --> 0:08:25.520 and law enforcement searched a lot of terrain. They had 0:08:25.560 --> 0:08:28.480 a big response. A lot of people saw those posters 0:08:28.560 --> 0:08:31.720 and some reached out with tips. A motel owner reached 0:08:31.760 --> 0:08:34.120 out to Mary and said he believed that Karen was 0:08:34.180 --> 0:08:36.890 at his motel. So she rushed there and saw a 0:08:36.920 --> 0:08:40.130 young woman. This young woman looked like Karen, but it 0:08:40.190 --> 0:08:44.210 wasn't her. Then, a few months after Karen disappeared, police 0:08:44.250 --> 0:08:47.730 got a potential lead. A witness came forward who said 0:08:47.770 --> 0:08:49.930 that he saw a woman who he believed to be 0:08:49.970 --> 0:08:53.030 Karen on the day she disappeared getting into a vehicle. 0:08:54.060 --> 0:08:57.300 The witness described the vehicle as a light blue four-door 0:08:57.300 --> 0:09:03.100 1976 to 1978 sedan, possibly a Ford Granada, a Mercury Monarch, 0:09:03.460 --> 0:09:07.110 or a Nissan. The most memorable part of the description 0:09:07.170 --> 0:09:10.530 was actually the license plates. According to the witness, the 0:09:10.570 --> 0:09:14.650 driver had California license plates and the word Eureka printed 0:09:14.870 --> 0:09:19.150 on the rear plate's frame. This person, the witness, claimed 0:09:19.190 --> 0:09:22.000 that they actually almost got into a car accident. when 0:09:22.020 --> 0:09:25.360 the man in the mystery vehicle turned onto Broadway Street, a.k.a. 0:09:25.430 --> 0:09:29.410 the 101, and nearly hit him. After that, the witness 0:09:29.450 --> 0:09:32.090 said the car stopped and picked up a young woman 0:09:32.450 --> 0:09:37.530 who matched Karen's description. So, presumably because they were probably 0:09:37.570 --> 0:09:40.670 a little bit shaken, the witness remembered the driver well. 0:09:41.430 --> 0:09:43.550 The witness described the driver of the car as a 0:09:43.650 --> 0:09:47.570 white male, approximately 60 to 70 years old, with balding, 0:09:47.790 --> 0:09:51.520 light gray, or sandy blonde hair. the witness helped police 0:09:51.620 --> 0:09:55.160 create a composite sketch with even more details, including that 0:09:55.200 --> 0:09:58.060 the man had green or gray eyes and a large-sized 0:09:58.140 --> 0:10:01.930 nose that appeared to have been previously broken, and that 0:10:01.950 --> 0:10:05.510 he had a small build and wore eyeglasses. The witness 0:10:05.550 --> 0:10:09.050 stated that the driver of the car was wearing a long-sleeved, button-down, 0:10:09.270 --> 0:10:09.990 light blue shirt. 0:10:10.810 --> 0:10:12.070 We're going to be posting. 0:10:11.730 --> 0:10:15.970 Sketches of the car and the driver on Instagram at ellengonepod. 0:10:16.950 --> 0:10:21.030 Because this case is still technically open, There is not 0:10:21.130 --> 0:10:23.750 a lot of information out there about how police chased 0:10:23.770 --> 0:10:28.560 down the sleet. But it was reported on charlieproject.org that 0:10:28.620 --> 0:10:31.800 police did find a car similar to the car reported 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:37.170 by the witness. Then, shortly after Karen disappeared, they apparently 0:10:37.250 --> 0:10:40.930 located the driver and gave that person a polygraph test. 0:10:41.850 --> 0:10:44.990 It was reported that that person was... ultimately cleared of 0:10:45.150 --> 0:10:50.060 any involvement in Karen's disappearance. But again, we don't know details. 0:10:50.800 --> 0:10:54.240 Was this definitely the car the witness saw? Did the 0:10:54.320 --> 0:10:57.560 Eureka plates match? Or did police just find a car 0:10:57.580 --> 0:11:00.620 that resembled the description given by the witness and questioned 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:01.540 the driver of that car? 0:11:02.650 --> 0:11:04.050 Like a lot of things. 0:11:03.850 --> 0:11:06.770 In this case, because this is still an open investigation, 0:11:07.330 --> 0:11:11.010 we're just not sure. I also have some other questions, 0:11:11.090 --> 0:11:16.610 including how reliable is this witness description? Because it hits 0:11:16.650 --> 0:11:18.850 me that the witness must have been very close to 0:11:18.890 --> 0:11:22.300 that other car to see the driver's eye color. Again, 0:11:22.580 --> 0:11:24.360 I wish we had access to the case file so 0:11:24.400 --> 0:11:26.740 that we could see exactly what this person told the 0:11:26.780 --> 0:11:31.080 police in the complete interview. Because so much of the 0:11:31.160 --> 0:11:35.560 subsequent investigation appears to be based on this witness description, 0:11:36.240 --> 0:11:39.240 it would be super helpful to find out if police 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:42.260 were able to be sure that this was Karen the 0:11:42.300 --> 0:11:50.270 witness saw. Karen's disappearance shocked the local community. For the 0:11:50.310 --> 0:11:53.010 most part, the area where Karen vanished is known as 0:11:53.050 --> 0:11:56.450 a pretty safe area. And Karen went missing in the 0:11:56.490 --> 0:12:00.160 middle of the day in a well-trafficked area. Plus, of course, 0:12:00.220 --> 0:12:02.440 the irony of all this was that part of the 0:12:02.480 --> 0:12:05.320 reason why Karen moved to Humboldt County in the first 0:12:05.380 --> 0:12:08.720 place was because she and her mom thought of it 0:12:08.780 --> 0:12:11.560 as safer than where she had been living in Southern California. 0:12:12.840 --> 0:12:16.810 Karen's mother, Mary, gave the guardian more background. She said 0:12:16.880 --> 0:12:19.190 she had Karen when she was 18 years old and 0:12:19.210 --> 0:12:22.750 Karen's brother when she was just 16 years old. Karen's 0:12:22.810 --> 0:12:25.190 mother was married to their father, but they divorced when 0:12:25.210 --> 0:12:28.590 the kids were young. So Mary raised those two children 0:12:28.810 --> 0:12:32.450 as a single mom. For years, she worked multiple jobs 0:12:32.510 --> 0:12:36.670 to support her family. Mary said that her brother Bill 0:12:36.750 --> 0:12:38.920 and his wife Annie were the ones who suggested that 0:12:38.940 --> 0:12:41.240 Karen come and live with them and their three sons 0:12:41.480 --> 0:12:44.600 in Eureka. But as we said before, even though she 0:12:44.660 --> 0:12:47.940 seemed to find some peace in Eureka, Karen seemed to 0:12:47.980 --> 0:12:51.320 be getting bored. She started making more concrete plans to 0:12:51.360 --> 0:12:56.210 go to college. police did consider the possibility that Karen 0:12:56.290 --> 0:12:59.110 could have been a runaway. So just to briefly touch 0:12:59.170 --> 0:13:02.030 on that, on the day she disappeared, she was figuring 0:13:02.110 --> 0:13:05.650 out applications and financial aid. It seemed like she was 0:13:05.750 --> 0:13:08.550 planning for the future. So this made her friends and 0:13:08.590 --> 0:13:12.150 family believe she would not have run away. Also, she 0:13:12.200 --> 0:13:14.600 was very reliable about getting to work on time, and 0:13:14.620 --> 0:13:17.900 she specifically said she was headed there. She didn't pack 0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:20.940 anything to take with her. And also, Karen had a 0:13:20.960 --> 0:13:24.500 bank account. After she disappeared, no one ever tried to 0:13:24.620 --> 0:13:27.640 access that money. And, as we said before, she never 0:13:27.700 --> 0:13:30.080 came back home to visit her mother and brother with 0:13:30.120 --> 0:13:37.350 her prepaid airline tickets. Months went by, and there was 0:13:37.410 --> 0:13:41.730 zero sign of Karen. Eventually, the searches died down, and 0:13:41.770 --> 0:13:45.570 the headlines stopped. Mary and James went back to Southern California, 0:13:45.910 --> 0:13:49.680 and they waited. Over the years, Mary has talked to 0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:53.140 the media. She appeared on the Sally Jesse Raphael talk show. 0:13:53.820 --> 0:13:56.200 And she talked regularly with the detective in charge of 0:13:56.240 --> 0:14:00.720 the case, Dave Paris. From the interviews that Dave Paris 0:14:00.740 --> 0:14:03.480 has given about the case, it seems clear that he 0:14:03.580 --> 0:14:06.420 cared deeply about it. And it's something that he reflected 0:14:06.480 --> 0:14:09.720 on a lot during his time in law enforcement. Dave 0:14:09.790 --> 0:14:13.130 Paris told the Eureka Times-Standard back in 2012 that he 0:14:13.150 --> 0:14:15.870 was haunted by the case. He said he'd spent a 0:14:15.990 --> 0:14:18.910 lot of time thinking about what could have happened to Karen. 0:14:20.090 --> 0:14:24.110 Parts of Humboldt County are places where it could be 0:14:24.230 --> 0:14:27.250 easy for a person to disappear. It's an area that's 0:14:27.270 --> 0:14:29.790 surrounded by a lot of forests, and there are a 0:14:29.820 --> 0:14:34.180 lot of people growing marijuana in those forests. Giant redwood 0:14:34.220 --> 0:14:37.540 trees block out the view from the road. There were 0:14:37.620 --> 0:14:40.580 also a lot of transients in the area and a 0:14:40.620 --> 0:14:44.900 lot of hitchhikers. Karen was added to an ominous list 0:14:44.940 --> 0:14:47.340 of young women who had gone missing in and around 0:14:47.420 --> 0:14:51.580 Humboldt County. They were known as the Humboldt Five. These 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:55.360 young women went missing years apart under different circumstances in 0:14:55.400 --> 0:14:59.140 various parts of the county. There's no evident connection between 0:14:59.260 --> 0:15:02.590 any of the cases. The only commonality is that all 0:15:02.610 --> 0:15:04.730 of them were young women and none of them were 0:15:04.870 --> 0:15:08.530 ever seen again. There's actually a spot there called Alder 0:15:08.590 --> 0:15:10.730 Point that is nicknamed Murder Mountains. 0:15:11.430 --> 0:15:13.430 It was originally apparently nicknamed that. 0:15:13.310 --> 0:15:17.070 After a serial killing couple hid out there in 1982. 0:15:17.070 --> 0:15:18.910 But the name kind of stuck around. 0:15:19.850 --> 0:15:22.810 Netflix actually made a documentary about missing people in the 0:15:22.870 --> 0:15:27.600 area called Murder Mountain. But later, questions emerged about how 0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:30.640 accurate the statistics of missing people were in the area 0:15:30.700 --> 0:15:34.760 because it's been widely reported that the California Department of 0:15:34.800 --> 0:15:40.980 Justice stated that in 2024... 244 children and 238 adults 0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:44.790 were reported missing from Humboldt County. But the sheriff of 0:15:44.850 --> 0:15:49.530 Humboldt County made a statement to KRCR News. He pointed 0:15:49.690 --> 0:15:50.970 out that of the 244 juveniles reported missing, 242 of 0:15:50.990 --> 0:15:52.230 them were later found. And out of the 238 adults 0:15:52.270 --> 0:16:04.940 that were reported missing, 203 were found. So, yes, At 0:16:05.000 --> 0:16:07.460 first glance, the sheriff said there seemed to be a 0:16:07.500 --> 0:16:10.460 lot of missing people in Humboldt County, but you have 0:16:10.500 --> 0:16:12.920 to look at the other side of the equation. Most 0:16:12.960 --> 0:16:17.700 of those people are eventually found. Unfortunately, Karen Mitchell was 0:16:17.780 --> 0:16:24.420 not one of them. Over the years, there were some 0:16:24.460 --> 0:16:28.240 suspects and people of interest who popped up, including two 0:16:28.440 --> 0:16:30.420 very high-profile serial killers. 0:16:31.360 --> 0:16:34.200 One of them was a man named Wayne Adam Ford. 0:16:45.970 --> 0:16:47.360 At around 6.30 p.m. 0:16:47.480 --> 0:16:52.260 On November 3rd, 1998, 36-year-old Wayne Adam Ford walked into 0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:56.040 the Humboldt County Sheriff's Office with his brother. He told 0:16:56.100 --> 0:16:59.880 police he wanted to confess to murder. Then he held 0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:03.310 out a piece of female breast that was sealed inside 0:17:03.340 --> 0:17:06.210 a plastic bag that he had in his jacket pocket. 0:17:07.590 --> 0:17:11.110 Wayne Adam Ford had a connection to the area. He 0:17:11.130 --> 0:17:14.410 had lived in Trinidad, a town about 30 minutes outside 0:17:14.430 --> 0:17:17.540 of Eureka. He was recently divorced at the time and 0:17:17.580 --> 0:17:21.060 had a two-year-old son. He lived a fairly isolated life. 0:17:21.560 --> 0:17:25.720 His wife and son were living in Las Vegas. Wayne 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:28.980 was a long-haul trucker, which he claimed gave him access 0:17:29.060 --> 0:17:33.040 to his female victims. Women came forward and described being 0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:35.820 attacked by a man who matched Wayne's description and who 0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:39.720 drove a truck. Police explored the possibility that he may 0:17:39.740 --> 0:17:44.720 have been involved in other crimes, including other murders. Carlton Smith, 0:17:45.040 --> 0:17:48.160 author of a book called Shadows of Evil, pointed out 0:17:48.200 --> 0:17:51.000 in the book that this was an interesting case because 0:17:51.140 --> 0:17:54.670 behavioral analysts at the FBI training facility at Quantico at 0:17:54.710 --> 0:17:58.510 the time believed serial killers tend to escalate over time. 0:17:58.870 --> 0:18:01.470 In other words, their murders get worse and more brutal. 0:18:02.110 --> 0:18:06.890 But Wayne's trajectory seemed to be the opposite. Wayne eventually 0:18:06.950 --> 0:18:11.100 confessed to murdering four people, including a young woman, Jane Doe. 0:18:11.920 --> 0:18:15.200 Her torso was found floating in Humboldt County near Eureka. 0:18:15.980 --> 0:18:20.840 Her case was known as the torso case. In 2023, 0:18:20.840 --> 0:18:24.910 Jane Doe was finally identified as 25-year-old Carrie Ann Cummings. 0:18:25.910 --> 0:18:28.890 Wayne was eventually convicted of killing Carrie Ann and three 0:18:28.930 --> 0:18:30.530 other victims. 0:18:30.550 --> 0:18:32.290 26-year-old Tina Renee. 0:18:32.030 --> 0:18:36.030 Gibbs, who was killed in Las Vegas on May 16, 1998, 0:18:36.030 --> 0:18:40.820 and her body dumped in Kern County, California. 25-year-old Lynette White, 0:18:41.220 --> 0:18:45.300 who was murdered on September 25, 1998, in Ontario, California. 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:49.760 Her body was dumped in an irrigation canal near Lodi, California. 0:18:50.480 --> 0:18:55.050 The final victim was 29-year-old Patricia Tamez. She was murdered 0:18:55.090 --> 0:18:58.890 in Hesperia, California, in October of 1998. Her body was 0:18:58.950 --> 0:19:03.270 dumped in an aqueduct in San Bernardino County. Wayne claimed 0:19:03.290 --> 0:19:05.570 that he picked up three of his victims as hitchhikers. 0:19:06.690 --> 0:19:09.090 But police said there were parts of his story that 0:19:09.130 --> 0:19:12.900 didn't really make sense. They said, Three of Wayne's victims 0:19:12.960 --> 0:19:16.860 were known sex workers. Because of that, they believe Wayne 0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:19.600 was lying about the real reason why they initially got 0:19:19.620 --> 0:19:23.570 into his vehicle. But he was telling the truth about 0:19:23.610 --> 0:19:27.130 where the bodies were located. Wayne was also unusual in 0:19:27.150 --> 0:19:28.370 that he randomly showed up. 0:19:28.330 --> 0:19:31.150 To confess to his crimes. And he seemed to have a. 0:19:31.290 --> 0:19:34.540 Genuine desire to stop rather than trying to just taunt 0:19:34.580 --> 0:19:38.820 the police. Police have stated Wayne killed his first victim 0:19:39.040 --> 0:19:42.820 about a month before Karen disappeared. But other than proximity 0:19:42.860 --> 0:19:46.720 to Karen, there wasn't much to go on evidence-wise. Neither 0:19:46.780 --> 0:19:50.320 the vehicle nor the description of the driver matched Wayne 0:19:50.340 --> 0:19:54.620 Ford's appearance. It was reported in 1999 in the Los 0:19:54.700 --> 0:19:58.600 Angeles Times that police were waiting on DNA tests to 0:19:58.660 --> 0:20:02.990 see if Wayne could be linked to Karen's case. But 0:20:03.070 --> 0:20:06.850 after that, nothing further was reported and police did not 0:20:06.930 --> 0:20:10.980 move forward with pursuing a case against Wayne. Wayne was 0:20:11.160 --> 0:20:13.680 operating in the same area as where Karen went missing, 0:20:14.460 --> 0:20:17.300 but he drove a truck, not the car the witness described, 0:20:18.080 --> 0:20:20.680 and the link between him and Karen was never established. 0:20:21.800 --> 0:20:24.380 Not to mention the fact that Wayne confessed to his kills, 0:20:24.420 --> 0:20:28.860 but he never mentioned Karen. Of course, serial killers and 0:20:28.940 --> 0:20:32.700 killers in general can lie, especially when they have something 0:20:32.720 --> 0:20:37.420 to gain. In Mary and James' 2015 interview with The Guardian, 0:20:37.940 --> 0:20:41.070 the writer asked Mary Kasper about the Wayne Ford rumors. 0:20:41.830 --> 0:20:45.630 Mary told The Guardian that Detective Parris told her Wayne 0:20:45.690 --> 0:20:48.030 Ford was given a lie detector test and that he 0:20:48.050 --> 0:20:52.000 was specifically questioned about Karen. that Wayne had denied having 0:20:52.160 --> 0:20:54.700 anything to do with her disappearance and that apparently he 0:20:54.740 --> 0:20:58.360 passed that test. Mary also told the newspaper she went 0:20:58.400 --> 0:21:01.600 a step further. She said in 2000, she personally went 0:21:01.660 --> 0:21:04.930 to see Wayne Ford in prison. Mary said she asked 0:21:04.970 --> 0:21:08.510 him point blank if he killed Karen. She also showed 0:21:08.630 --> 0:21:12.710 Wayne pictures of her daughter. Mary claimed that Wayne told 0:21:12.770 --> 0:21:15.110 her that, quote, she looks like she could be one 0:21:15.150 --> 0:21:18.980 of mine, end quote. But Mary said Wayne was asking 0:21:19.040 --> 0:21:21.140 her to write to him in prison and offering to 0:21:21.220 --> 0:21:22.900 give her information. 0:21:22.360 --> 0:21:24.240 Little by little, so she said no. 0:21:25.220 --> 0:21:28.140 For what it's worth, I think that Mary refusing to 0:21:28.200 --> 0:21:31.330 write to Wayne was the right call. This is just 0:21:31.370 --> 0:21:34.270 my opinion, but I see way too many instances of 0:21:34.330 --> 0:21:36.830 killers in prison who seem to get a kick out 0:21:36.850 --> 0:21:40.630 of stringing along journalists and family members, other people who 0:21:40.670 --> 0:21:43.220 write to them. In the end, most of them just 0:21:43.260 --> 0:21:46.080 end up wasting a lot of time and for those 0:21:46.180 --> 0:21:50.290 closest to the victim, causing even more heartache. But it 0:21:50.360 --> 0:21:53.490 does show how much Mary loved her daughter and how 0:21:53.530 --> 0:21:55.550 she was willing to go to any lengths to try 0:21:55.570 --> 0:21:56.750 to get answers about what. 0:21:56.670 --> 0:21:57.090 Happened to her. 0:21:58.330 --> 0:22:02.250 Karen's case made headlines again in 2002. It was reported 0:22:02.330 --> 0:22:05.170 in the Sioux City Journal that police in California were 0:22:05.210 --> 0:22:08.670 looking at similarities between Karen's case and the cases of 0:22:08.750 --> 0:22:12.790 two young women who were murdered in Oregon. In January 0:22:12.810 --> 0:22:17.130 of 2002, 12-year-old Ashley Pond disappeared on her way to 0:22:17.170 --> 0:22:20.270 the bus stop in Oregon City. Then, two months later, 0:22:20.310 --> 0:22:25.090 a classmate of hers, 13-year-old Miranda Gaddis, also disappeared in 0:22:25.130 --> 0:22:29.250 the same neighborhood, also near a bus stop. The two girls' 0:22:29.310 --> 0:22:33.400 bodies were eventually found at a property rented by 39-year-old 0:22:33.600 --> 0:22:37.980 Ward Weaver III. Ward Weaver III lived near the area 0:22:38.020 --> 0:22:41.480 where both girls disappeared. One of the girls' bodies was 0:22:41.520 --> 0:22:44.760 found in a shed. The other body was found buried 0:22:44.840 --> 0:22:48.750 under a concrete slab. Police found the bodies when they 0:22:48.770 --> 0:22:52.230 were investigating Ward Weaver for the rape of his son's girlfriend. 0:22:53.390 --> 0:22:57.130 In 2004, Ward Weaver was sentenced to life without the 0:22:57.150 --> 0:23:00.470 possibility of parole for the sexual assault and murders of 0:23:00.490 --> 0:23:05.260 Miranda and Ashley. Even though those murders happened in Oregon, 0:23:05.760 --> 0:23:08.360 it was reported that Ward Weaver grew up in Eureka, 0:23:08.500 --> 0:23:10.640 the same town where Karen was living at the time 0:23:10.660 --> 0:23:16.740 of her disappearance. Randomly, Ward Weaver III's father, Ward Weaver Jr., 0:23:17.100 --> 0:23:21.620 is also a convicted serial killer. Ward Weaver Jr. was 0:23:21.660 --> 0:23:24.140 arrested and convicted of the murders of a young couple 0:23:24.380 --> 0:23:28.640 in 1981 and dumping their bodies under concrete in his backyard. 0:23:29.820 --> 0:23:32.440 At the time Karen went missing, it was reported that 0:23:32.520 --> 0:23:33.080 Ward Jr. 0:23:33.120 --> 0:23:34.220 the father, was in prison. 0:23:35.220 --> 0:23:38.500 Other than Ward III's proximity to Karen Mitchell's hometown at 0:23:38.560 --> 0:23:43.120 some point, Police apparently determined there was no connection between 0:23:43.180 --> 0:23:49.680 Ward Weaver and Karen Mitchell. But in 2015, another very 0:23:49.740 --> 0:23:53.340 infamous name came up as being potentially connected to Karen's case. 0:23:54.250 --> 0:24:10.640 Multi-millionaire real estate scion turned serial killer Robert Durst. Robert Durst, 0:24:10.700 --> 0:24:13.270 of course, was a member of the Durst family, a 0:24:13.310 --> 0:24:14.710 Manhattan real estate magnate. 0:24:15.630 --> 0:24:17.910 His family was worth an estimated. 0:24:17.450 --> 0:24:22.130 $ 8 billion and founded the Durst organization, which eventually went 0:24:22.190 --> 0:24:25.410 on to own, manage, and build an estimated 13 million 0:24:25.480 --> 0:24:27.320 square feet of Manhattan office towers. 0:24:28.480 --> 0:24:31.220 Robert Durst, of course, became a household. 0:24:30.800 --> 0:24:34.120 Name early in 2015 after being the subject of the 0:24:34.380 --> 0:24:38.730 HBO documentary series, The Jinx. I won't go through all 0:24:38.750 --> 0:24:41.790 the details of this case. This story is much too 0:24:41.870 --> 0:24:44.510 long and bizarre to cover completely here, but just to 0:24:44.590 --> 0:24:48.230 briefly recap, Robert Durst was suspected of several murders when 0:24:48.250 --> 0:24:51.870 the documentary aired in 2015, including the killing of his 0:24:51.930 --> 0:24:55.430 neighbor Morris Black in Texas in 2001, the murder of 0:24:55.470 --> 0:24:58.720 his friend Susan Berman in Los Angeles in 2000, and 0:24:58.740 --> 0:25:01.820 the murder of his wife Kathleen, who went missing in 0:25:01.820 --> 0:25:06.260 1982 under very suspicious circumstances. Kathleen was 29 years old 0:25:06.360 --> 0:25:08.740 and in medical school when she vanished without a trace 0:25:08.880 --> 0:25:12.840 on January 31st, 1982. She and Robert had been living 0:25:12.880 --> 0:25:16.090 in Westchester County, New York. He told police they had 0:25:16.110 --> 0:25:18.050 an argument and she left their home and he had 0:25:18.150 --> 0:25:21.890 no idea where she was. But Robert waited five days 0:25:21.930 --> 0:25:24.730 to report her missing and their marriage had been volatile. 0:25:25.410 --> 0:25:29.400 Kathleen's family said Robert was controlling and had rage issues. 0:25:29.920 --> 0:25:33.360 So from the beginning, Kathleen's family always suspected that Robert 0:25:33.400 --> 0:25:38.180