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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true

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Speaker 2: crime all the time. It's Tuesday, March third, and we

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Speaker 2: have a stack night of headlines.

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Speaker 3: The verdict is in and gave my son a gun trial.

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Speaker 2: Plus we're unpacking the newly revealed detail in David the

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Speaker 2: Popstars case. Will there actually be an arrest? Plus an

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Speaker 2: Atlanta woman allegedly murders her girlfriend and then steals her

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Speaker 2: identity if you can believe it, allegedly allegedly allegedly, And

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Speaker 2: did Jeffrey Epstein actually commit suicide? I know we've talked

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Speaker 2: about this a lot here, it's getting a lot of

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Speaker 2: press real time.

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Speaker 3: Guess what. Joseph Scott Morgan, our very favorite forensic.

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Speaker 2: Sex burt and host of the hit podcast body Bags,

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Speaker 2: is here to break down the forensics on all that

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Speaker 2: and more. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with Courtney Armstrong and

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Speaker 2: body Move In. I've been crawling to the finish line today.

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Speaker 2: I'm so glad to be with you guys.

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Speaker 3: Hello, Hello, hello face, Hello back at hello. Body's pretty tonight?

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Speaker 2: I think, yeah, you are pretty in pink today. By

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Speaker 2: the way, listen March third. You know it's that three

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Speaker 2: three three or something.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, red moon.

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Speaker 2: Or something big happening in the sky. Hopefully that landed

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Speaker 2: nicely in your world. It has had no effect on

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Speaker 2: mine me neither. Nothing excuse not that I'm aware. Everything's

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Speaker 2: fat Yes taha, Sam Adam, how are you guys?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, what's going on?

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Speaker 4: And well, we had a Gabe come through the iHeart

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Speaker 4: studio earlier and dropped.

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Speaker 3: Off a bunch of merge for salmon.

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Speaker 2: Great, are you guys in your true crime tonight?

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Speaker 3: Swag looking like a million bucks?

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Speaker 2: I might add, look in like a million bucks. So

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Speaker 2: we made it to Tuesday, and hopefully you guys had

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Speaker 2: a good Tuesday so far. We know our course, that

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Speaker 2: lots of going on in the world right now, as

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Speaker 2: we as we said yesterday, I just want to reiterate

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Speaker 2: today our our prayers and our support is with and

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Speaker 2: this is on behalf of all of us, with the

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Speaker 2: many men in service women, men and women, service women.

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Speaker 4: Men and women who are serving and yeah, in the

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Speaker 4: military forces and their families, right, and their families.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, man, I think.

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Speaker 2: We have to do something like we have to sort

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Speaker 2: of do more for them. And if anybody has any

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Speaker 2: suggestions on what we can be doing to to better

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Speaker 2: support the troops and to support their families, because you know,

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Speaker 2: we don't realize you know, kids, kids are being left

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Speaker 2: without their parents, and wives without their husbands, and you know,

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Speaker 2: parents without their sons and daughters. And just know that

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Speaker 2: we know it and we feel it, and we're sending

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Speaker 2: you so much, so much thing and we know it's.

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Speaker 3: A heavy burden, right, It's a heavy burden, yeah, and

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Speaker 3: we are appreciative of it for sure.

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Speaker 2: Yes, So if you have any big suggestions please eight

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Speaker 2: eight eight three one crime, we would love to hear

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Speaker 2: from you, and we would love to have those talkbacks

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Speaker 2: keeping keep them coming, please because today was a huge

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Speaker 2: day of courtney. We've been following his case so closely,

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Speaker 2: this father who was standing trial because of his son,

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Speaker 2: who unfortunately took the lives of four at a school

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Speaker 2: shooting with a gun supplied by his dad. The verdict

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Speaker 2: is in courtney. Do you want to give us a

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Speaker 2: little bit of the backstory here?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, if you're just catching up. There was a school

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Speaker 4: shooting Stephanie just referred to. This is back in September

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Speaker 4: of twenty twenty four, and the alleged shooter at the

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Speaker 4: time was fourteen year old Colt Gray.

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Speaker 3: And Indida. Stephanie said there were four.

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Speaker 4: Four fatalities and nine people wounded. Well, the boy's father,

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Speaker 4: Holland Gray, has been on trial and a Barrow County

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Speaker 4: jury in Georgia has found Colin Gray guilty on twenty

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Speaker 4: seven charges.

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Speaker 3: This whose murder, manslaughter, and this is all for his

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Speaker 3: role in the shooting.

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Speaker 5: So what.

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Speaker 4: The prosecutors argued that the dad, Colin Gray, was criminally

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Speaker 4: negligent forgiving his son an Ar fifteen style rifle while

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Speaker 4: ignoring repeated warning signs about his son's deteriorating mental health.

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Speaker 4: This verdict is a landmark our repercussions I think will

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Speaker 4: be rippling for the foreseeable future.

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Speaker 3: And listen, let's go to a talk back.

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Speaker 6: Hello, true trying to night. I'm blowing you up this

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Speaker 6: morning listening to yesterday's episode. You are asking for hunter

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Speaker 6: input on weapons that are red for hunting. I'm an

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Speaker 6: avid hunter, have been since I was a kid. I

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Speaker 6: help much rifles and compound though in Pennsylvania AR fifteens

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Speaker 6: are not legal to hunt deer. However, they are a

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Speaker 6: common and legal weapon that we use to go predator

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Speaker 6: hunting like kyotes and foxes you go out at night.

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Speaker 6: For those other states, however, because Pennsylvania has very restrictive

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Speaker 6: hunting walls compared to other states, AR fifteens are a

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Speaker 6: legal rifle to hunt deer and other games. So I

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Speaker 6: just wanted to answer that question for you, o y'all.

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Speaker 3: Did she say too, by the way, thank you, Mollie, like,

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Speaker 3: because we did ask like, did she say it's not

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Speaker 3: legal for them to use or did she.

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Speaker 2: Say not legal but commonly used for creditors, okay.

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Speaker 3: Like coyotes.

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Speaker 4: And she said not legal in Pennsylvania, which has strict laws,

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Speaker 4: was what I understood. And Mollie, that is super useful

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Speaker 4: and none of us did know that information. I think

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Speaker 4: at greater play in this particular instance for what the dad,

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Speaker 4: Colin Gray was charged with was all of the red

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Speaker 4: flags that had come to the father about his son's

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Speaker 4: deteriorating mental health, as well as keeping the gun totally

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Speaker 4: out of lock box and available at all times.

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Speaker 3: And you know what the deteriorating like mental I don't

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Speaker 3: want to say deteriating mental health. I'm not sure how

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Speaker 3: to you know, signs of mental distress right that he

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Speaker 3: was experiencing. In the face of all those those signs,

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Speaker 3: He's still purchased that weapon for his son. I think

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Speaker 3: that's a really big point.

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Speaker 2: It was interesting I was watching the bodycam footage when

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Speaker 2: police went to the door of Dad to basically say that,

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Speaker 2: you know, this was the moment they were basically ringing

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Speaker 2: the bell to say, there's something troubling here, please, you know,

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Speaker 2: keep all the gun stuff away from your son. And

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Speaker 2: you can see Dad and you can see his son, Colt,

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Speaker 2: who's again going to stand trial on his own as

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Speaker 2: an adult, and it was really kind of staggering because

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Speaker 2: you look at the sun and he looks so young.

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Speaker 2: You know, there's the mugshot that we see with the

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Speaker 2: red hair. You know, look, it's a mugshot. The kid's

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Speaker 2: probably so freaked out and petrified. You know, it has

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Speaker 2: a little bit of a more praised look about him.

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Speaker 2: But when you just see him sort of in the

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Speaker 2: body camp, he's kind of like, you know, swaying back

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Speaker 2: and forth. He's a fourteen year old kid and dad

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Speaker 2: comes out of the house, looks like a lovely home

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Speaker 2: and you know, sits down and is obviously listening to

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Speaker 2: the police. If that was me, I would be so

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Speaker 2: freaked out if the police were knocking at my door.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: So it didn't really give those vibes, but I was

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Speaker 2: really struck by just how normal it all seemed. And

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Speaker 2: Boysie so grizzly. Did you get the vibe that he

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Speaker 2: was taking it seriously? The dad was taking what the

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Speaker 2: police were saying seriously. I mean, I hate to infer this,

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Speaker 2: but not until he just looked a little bit more

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Speaker 2: like he was, you know, hearing information from the school

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Speaker 2: about maybe a poor grade or something, you know, not

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Speaker 2: like psyched to hear the news. He seemed like he was,

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Speaker 2: you know, on its nose, paying attention ish. But you know, look,

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Speaker 2: you know again, sometimes maybe a parent or a dad,

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Speaker 2: I'm just you know, putting myself in there his shoes

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Speaker 2: for a moment. Maybe he's like trying to bond with

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Speaker 2: his kid over the idea of like.

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Speaker 3: Oh, who cares about the cop?

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Speaker 2: I got you some like it's two against one in

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Speaker 2: a way again, completely not okay for innocent people lost

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Speaker 2: their lives because of this, and then again, yeah, you

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Speaker 2: see the family and you see the photographs of the victims,

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Speaker 2: and it really does put things into perspective very very quickly.

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Speaker 2: All the stories in the world won't change that.

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Speaker 3: That's right.

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Speaker 4: And listen, if you're just joining us, this is true

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Speaker 4: crime tonight, and we're talking about this monumental Verter verdict

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Speaker 4: that came down.

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Speaker 3: Colin Gray, the father.

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Speaker 4: Of an accused school shooter, has been found guilty of

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Speaker 4: twenty seven charges, including murder, for his role in giving

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Speaker 4: his fourteen year old son a gun. So here's a

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Speaker 4: little bit of updates on today. So the jury deliberated

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Speaker 4: for less than two hours.

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Speaker 3: Unbelievable. When we got the text this morning about that.

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Speaker 3: When the birth was in, I was like, yeah, oh

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Speaker 3: my god. I knew immediately that it was going to

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Speaker 3: be before I even read it.

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Speaker 5: Yep.

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Speaker 2: I didn't think it would be guilty on all accounts.

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Speaker 2: But you know, he's looking at one hundred years. So

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Speaker 2: dad is not seeing the light of day again, and he.

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Speaker 3: Do you stow it? You think you? I feel like

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Speaker 3: he had to. I went and watch it. I was coming.

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Speaker 3: What a scary feeling that must be no the feeling.

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Speaker 2: And I mean we've seen monsters go through this in

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Speaker 2: all variations of people who have committed so many crimes.

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Speaker 2: But that moment when you're cuffed and there's that moment

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Speaker 2: where you maybe could be going home with your family

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Speaker 2: who's sitting behind you, or like in this case, you're

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Speaker 2: just cuffed and taken away and that is it. End

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Speaker 2: of days, like your life is over and you are

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Speaker 2: behind bars.

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Speaker 3: Oof.

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Speaker 2: That transition to me just seems so incredibly scary, and

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Speaker 2: hopefully there's some justice for the victims' families, but again,

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Speaker 2: it doesn't bring them back, it doesn't bring us just

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Speaker 2: to lose, lose across all across all worlds.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: So the fifty four year old father, Colin Gray, he

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Speaker 4: he was led away in handcuffs. He now faces ten

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Speaker 4: to thirty years per murder count as well as one

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Speaker 4: to ten years per manslaughter count. So even at the base,

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Speaker 4: it does seem like he will be likely going away

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Speaker 4: for life. The prosecutor, who I think she's been really

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Speaker 4: eloquent and succinct, which has been powerful. Her name's Patricia Books,

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Speaker 4: and I had not realized this and all the time

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Speaker 4: we've been following this case. She emphasized the brevity and

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Speaker 4: the devastation of the attack. This attack took forty one seconds.

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Speaker 4: Oh my goodness, and she said those forty one seconds

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Speaker 4: forever altered the lives of the students of Appalachi High School.

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Speaker 4: Forty one seconds. Four people dead, nine people injured, hundreds

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Speaker 4: of people traumatized.

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Speaker 3: Right, it's staggering.

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Speaker 2: And did you see the footage either's footage I'm sorry

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Speaker 2: of him walking through the hallways and walking into the

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Speaker 2: school with a bad hand, like the oak tag hovery

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Speaker 2: as a gun, which looks ridiculous when you see him

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Speaker 2: doing it. But again, busy schools, busy days, kids have

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Speaker 2: school projects.

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Speaker 3: You know, you could see how quickly things could get.

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Speaker 3: You know, nobody.

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Speaker 2: Would really notice that, even you know, when you're looking

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Speaker 2: for it. It looks so obvious because he's by himself,

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Speaker 2: like snaking around this weird oak tag covering a gun.

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Speaker 2: But boy, it's really haunting when you know that in

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Speaker 2: just a couple of minutes he's going to be doing

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Speaker 2: something so devastating seconds.

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Speaker 3: I wonder if this is going to change, you know,

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Speaker 3: I mean, we talked about like the importance of this

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Speaker 3: ruling and what impact it's going to have on, you know,

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Speaker 3: the culpability of future parents with school shootings and whatnot.

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Speaker 3: And I wonder if this is going to change the

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Speaker 3: way some people manage their guns in their home.

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Speaker 6: Sure.

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Speaker 3: I wonder if some people this and go, oh, you know,

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Speaker 3: maybe I should secure these weapons. I'm hoping it does.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know if other parents are going

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Speaker 3: to be prosecuted in the future. Obviously I'm not a

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Speaker 3: fortune teller, but I mean, if this is the precedence now,

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Speaker 3: I mean, this is right.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And I'll be interested to speak with Jarrett Farantino,

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Speaker 4: prosecutor tomorrow. You know, just what kind of precedent because

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Speaker 4: this is such an aggravated case when you actually look

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Speaker 4: at the details, and you know, Jared always points out

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Speaker 4: each case is its own case. You know, not that

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Speaker 4: many people, you know, have the gun unlocked and gave

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Speaker 4: the gun to someone underage after police came to the door,

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Speaker 4: after it was known that they had a monument to

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Speaker 4: another school shooter known to the father in their room.

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Speaker 3: After I mean, they were just so many blatant things,

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Speaker 3: so and it does seem really unique, Like I can't

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Speaker 3: imagine many families out there have a child with a

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Speaker 3: school shooter trying in their bedroom, right, Like, this is

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Speaker 3: a very unique situation. I just wonder how it's going

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Speaker 3: to be applied as case law.

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Speaker 4: As case I'm very interested in how, you know, does

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Speaker 4: it expand to other things.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Listen, if I was a parent with weapons, I

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Speaker 3: would definitely and I you know, was just like I

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Speaker 3: had it on my night stand table, I would definitely

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Speaker 3: be paying attention and locking that up right one hundred percent.

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Speaker 2: Like, I'm surprised there's not like a fingerprint or something

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Speaker 2: for somebody owner. That's what I have for a certain age,

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Speaker 2: you know, just that kind of thing, because you know,

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Speaker 2: kids can be in stuff, and you know, they just

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Speaker 2: don't get their repercussions at that age. By the way,

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Speaker 2: my dad didn't understand the repercussions either clearly, let alone

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Speaker 2: a fourteen year old. So yeah, this is a big,

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Speaker 2: glaring cautionary tale to all. I want to take just

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Speaker 2: a brief moment and mention the victims. The victims were

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Speaker 2: students Christian Angulo, fourteen years old, Mason Skirmerhorn also fourteen

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Speaker 2: years old, and teachers Christine Iremi she was fifty three,

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Speaker 2: and Richard You went by Ricky Aspinwall. He was thirty

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Speaker 2: nine years old, and that is again in addition to

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Speaker 2: the nine others who were wounded, and one of the victims,

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Speaker 2: Christian Angelo, is described as a hero. During trial testimony,

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Speaker 2: prosecutors said his last act on earth was to shut

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Speaker 2: the door to his classroom to protect his friends.

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Speaker 4: So our thoughts, you know, the words are empty, but

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Speaker 4: our thoughts are with you. And stick around because when

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Speaker 4: we come back, we have some new details on house.

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Speaker 4: Les Revus Hernandez was found inside singer David's tesla. Forensic

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Speaker 4: expert Joseph Scott Morgan joins us.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to true crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

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Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with

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Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong and body Move in and listen. We have

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Speaker 2: Joseph Scott Morgan, the greatest forensics expert and host of

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Speaker 2: the hit podcast Body Bags.

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Speaker 3: Hi, Joseph, sure Is.

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Speaker 5: It's the highlight of my week.

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Speaker 3: We love having you, We love having you.

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Speaker 2: We keep stacking the questions again, we do again, and against.

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Speaker 3: Has been everywhere.

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Speaker 2: He's been, everywhere, You've been, just doing hits on every

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Speaker 2: news channel. We're so incredibly proud of you. I know

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Speaker 2: you'll be with our treasure Brian Enton as well. So

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Speaker 2: so much too, so much to watch of Joseph right now.

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Speaker 2: So we're so glad to have you with us. Obviously,

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Speaker 2: we've talked about this quite a bit, both on the

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Speaker 2: show and certainly off the show as well, just all

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Speaker 2: things Jeffrey Epstein, and you know, we've talked about the suicide.

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Speaker 2: That's the official that's the official claim by the government

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Speaker 2: in the DOJ at the time was William Barr And

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Speaker 2: it was an autopsy, and the autopsy was done, and

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Speaker 2: it was done multiple times, and it was decided that,

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Speaker 2: in fact, despite many weird things happening around the edges

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Speaker 2: in that particular jail on that particular night, that it

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Speaker 2: was in fact a suicide. And frankly, the autopsy is

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Speaker 2: back in the press yet again, and Joseph, we'd love

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Speaker 2: to break it down with you and really get into

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Speaker 2: the specifics because again it doesn't add up.

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Speaker 4: So I'll give a little background to anyone about why

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Speaker 4: indeed this is back in the news. So Mark Epstein

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Speaker 4: is Jeffrey Epstein's brother, so he and Epstein's lawyer, a

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Speaker 4: man named David Schoen. The two of them are pushing

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Speaker 4: for a renewed investigation into Jeffrey Ebstein's twenty nineteen death.

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Speaker 4: What they are arguing is that the autopsy findings, the

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Speaker 4: jail protocol failures, as well as the unanswered questions that

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Speaker 4: suggest his death may not have been a suicide. And

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Speaker 4: if you haven't been following Jeffrey ebstin Jeffrey Epstein, he

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Speaker 4: was a financier, a convicted sex offender for running literally

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Speaker 4: a worldwide sex trafficking operation, and he was awaiting trial

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Speaker 4: back in twenty nineteen on federal charges of sex trafficking minors.

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Speaker 4: He was found dead in his Manhattan Correctional Center jail

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Speaker 4: cell back in August, on August tenth, twenty nineteen, and.

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Speaker 3: Listen, the official ruling was suicide.

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Speaker 4: However, forensic experts, family members, victims, medical examiners, as well

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Speaker 4: as investigative journalists and everyone in the studio to night

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Speaker 4: have their doubts. Joseph Scott Morgan, I know you have

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Speaker 4: a lot to say forensically. There was one thing we

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Speaker 4: wanted to ask you about regarding this, and that is tinting.

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Speaker 5: Oh wow, I didn't see that coming. Okay, Yeah, glad

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Speaker 5: you asked that question. I can't get students to remember.

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Speaker 3: That audit for sure.

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Speaker 5: Well come on, okay, So yeah we're hinting, and it's

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Speaker 5: it's t E N T I n G. And I

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Speaker 5: literally spelled this out before, folks. But it's not like

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Speaker 5: the tint on your windows. It's like a pup tin.

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Speaker 5: So just right now, everybody, even said on my voice,

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Speaker 5: close your eyes and think about a pump a pup tent. Okay,

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Speaker 5: So it comes to a peak.

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Speaker 3: It has like you're going camping, right yeah.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, So in geometric terms, it has an apex. Okay,

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Speaker 5: so at the top, all right, So anytime we have

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Speaker 5: a suspended hanging, okay, where someone has oft them selves,

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Speaker 5: you look for something called tinting feature. All right. So

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Speaker 5: tinting feature means that the news goes around the neck

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Speaker 5: and then sharply and and I mean sharply creates a

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Speaker 5: furrow that goes up directly behind the ears, and then

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Speaker 5: the apex of the knot, which it should be at

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Speaker 5: the knot is directly above the head. And we can

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Speaker 5: envision from any number of movies out there where it's

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Speaker 5: you know, they're play acting with someone that has taken

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Speaker 5: their own life, and they're suspended and they're swinging back

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Speaker 5: and forth. Thank Alfred Hitchcock, Well that's tinting feature. Jeffrey

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Speaker 5: Epstein didn't have to say that this is I'm sorry,

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Speaker 5: go ahead.

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Speaker 3: He didn't have them. He didn't have the marks behind

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Speaker 3: his ears.

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Speaker 5: He didn't have them in the acute fashion. What he

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Speaker 5: had he did, in fact have, were these kind of

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Speaker 5: superficial upbraided areas that run. I say, just from my

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Speaker 5: view of the images I've seen, they run parallel to

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Speaker 5: the shoulder. So if you think about a band of

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Speaker 5: ribbon going just underneath are just on top of the

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Speaker 5: Adams Apple and shooting straight backwards, you get this band

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Speaker 5: that runs back and it has depth to it, which

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Speaker 5: means the tissue has been compressed, but it also has

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Speaker 5: has a texture to it. And when Boden, doctor Michael Boden,

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Speaker 5: who was in fact present, Okay, he's representing. He's hired

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Speaker 5: by Mark Epstein, so he's physically present in the autopsy

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Speaker 5: suite with doctor Samson as they're doing the autopsy. He

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Speaker 5: made note and apparently she noticed it too, and I'll

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Speaker 5: get to that in just a second. But he felt

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Speaker 5: as though that the furrow itself, that band that's running

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Speaker 5: back had texture to it. So their supposition is that

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Speaker 5: these were bed sheets that did this. Okay, bed sheets

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Speaker 5: don't have a patterned to them in the sense of

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Speaker 5: if anyone at home, if you've got like a and

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Speaker 5: I'm not saying that's what was used. However, if anybody's

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Speaker 5: got a nylon line on cord and home, and you

378
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Speaker 5: know how it's woven together, you know, nihline like paras cord,

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Speaker 5: it has a pattern to it. So when you look

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Speaker 5: at at when you look at literature, staningulation or hanging

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Speaker 5: the skin will be a negative image of that actual pattern. Well,

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Speaker 5: Boden saw that, and for five days, according to him,

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Speaker 5: he was kind of in agreement with Samson and they

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Speaker 5: had reached the conclusion that this was intermanent with listening

385
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Speaker 5: toward homicide. And then according to Boden, and this came

386
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Speaker 5: out in an article and forgive me, I can't remember

387
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Speaker 5: what news news platform it was on. It was like

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Speaker 5: the Post or mail or something. He said. He was

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Speaker 5: gobsmack because at their last conversation, you know, it's like

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Speaker 5: we she just says it's suicide, and then you know,

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Speaker 5: dust everything everybody going about your business. It's it's done

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Speaker 5: and done.

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Speaker 3: I've I've absorbed everything that you've said. Does that indicate

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Speaker 3: somebody like maybe coming up from behind?

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Speaker 5: And yeah, that will be consistent with a garage. Yeah,

396
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:24,880
Speaker 5: how anybody wants to because you people will fight over

397
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:27,200
Speaker 5: that sort of thing all the time. But yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 5: it's this way. Let me put it to you. This way.

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Speaker 5: It's more inconsistent with with suspension hanging. Okay, So that's

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Speaker 5: that's problem. That's that's something that can be physically appreciated.

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Speaker 5: It is I guess it is possible, and he would not.

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Speaker 5: Here's the other thing about this, and I think that

403
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Speaker 5: this gives all of us pause. When when someone falls

404
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:56,400
Speaker 5: from a height that has has a literature around their neck,

405
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Speaker 5: you have to have enough distance to drop and fall

406
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 5: in order for that energy to transfer to the underlying

407
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:10,800
Speaker 5: tissue so that it's going to harm it. Dude was

408
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Speaker 5: tied off on the bed. What the state is saying,

409
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Speaker 5: what the city is saying, is that his hyoid was

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Speaker 5: fractured and it's in the left greater horn. So if

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Speaker 5: everybody at home will take their left index finger and

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Speaker 5: push up hard, hard, hard, up and to the top

413
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Speaker 5: below the base of your tongue. That's essentially where the

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00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:35,160
Speaker 5: highway is. Well, the left greater horn was fractured. Then

415
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:40,760
Speaker 5: you go inferior to that, and the cartilage, the cartilage

416
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Speaker 5: essentially in his windpipe is fractured, not in one place,

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00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 5: but in two and they're linear. They run north and south,

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00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 5: those fractures do. So that's you've got three separate events

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Speaker 5: here that you're looking at. And that's why many of

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Speaker 5: us in the forensic community look at this and we

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Speaker 5: go this, this is not something that we commonly see.

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Speaker 5: And even with judicial hangings, and if you look back

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Speaker 5: at the judicial hangings that took place in War II,

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Speaker 5: there's a great book actually about that, the Queen's executioner

425
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 5: that wrote his memoirs because he hung most of these

426
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Speaker 5: Nazi guys. If you go back in the actual record,

427
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Speaker 5: you don't get that many Hollywood fractures. As a matter

428
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Speaker 5: of fact, they're the exception that's opposed to the norm

429
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Speaker 5: with judicial hanging that falls from a great height, you know,

430
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Speaker 5: and you're using a very robust rope, and because you

431
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 5: have to go so high in the neck, that's more

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Speaker 5: consistent with you know, manual strangulation. Sea clamping, throttling, that

433
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:44,439
Speaker 5: sort of thing, And I guess you could use use

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Speaker 5: a ligature if you could get it high enough on

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Speaker 5: the neck. So I don't know, there's a lot of

436
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 5: dynamics going on.

437
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,160
Speaker 3: Steph is raising her hand very patiently.

438
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, given there has been so much outcry about this

439
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 2: particular autopsy, you know, there has been in so much debate.

440
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 2: Is it possible that they would exhume his body and

441
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:07,879
Speaker 2: where is Jeffrey Epstein buried?

442
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 5: I wish I had answer to that, stef I don't know.

443
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, let me look for it right now.

444
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 2: Because there has been also so much chatter. This is

445
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 2: like junk chatter, So this is under the category of life.

446
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 2: Here for the junk scutter butt of these photographs that

447
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:28,920
Speaker 2: have appeared online that show Jeffrey Epstein allegedly in a

448
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:33,880
Speaker 2: different country, you know, still alive, meaning the autopsy was fake.

449
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 2: Now we've seen these autopsy photos, Joseph, We've gone through

450
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 2: them with you specifically, so I've seen them. I don't

451
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 2: know that I have enough of a skill set to

452
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:46,000
Speaker 2: be able to decide if it's a fake autopsy shot

453
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 2: or otherwise.

454
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 3: But I feel like you could put this puzzle to rest.

455
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 5: I don't know that. That's very sweet of you say,

456
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 5: I don't know that I would have ability. But let

457
00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:59,119
Speaker 5: me tell you what the measure of the pro sector

458
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 5: the autops pathologist is in this case. Okay, and here

459
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:07,440
Speaker 5: this is very very basic. In this case, if this

460
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:12,159
Speaker 5: individual did not save the hyoid and all of the

461
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:16,639
Speaker 5: organs of the neck and the strap muscles that we

462
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 5: dissect out they're in layers, if they were not saved

463
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 5: in this case, I'm going to have a major problem

464
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 5: with that because this is something that would be retained

465
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,200
Speaker 5: for years and years to come. You would put these

466
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 5: informulan in preservative. It's done every day. They do it

467
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 5: on cases that never make it into the news cycle.

468
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 5: And you're going to bury this guy with everything that

469
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 5: you're saying has evidentiary value. You're putting it back in

470
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,159
Speaker 5: the ground, or you're sending it to the crematory. I

471
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:48,120
Speaker 5: don't know what his status is. I have no idea.

472
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 5: I haven't looked into it. This is an easy step.

473
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 5: That's all you have to do. You preserve it, you

474
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:55,239
Speaker 5: hang on to it. If anybody has questions, yeah, come

475
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 5: on down, you can review it. Right here. Are you

476
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 5: telling that that's a critical piece of information. I don't

477
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 5: know what status of it is. I am hoping and

478
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:06,200
Speaker 5: pray that OCME retained all of these and that they

479
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:08,920
Speaker 5: are actually in the office of o cm ME in

480
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 5: downtown Manhattan.

481
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 3: Are you telling me that there could be Jeffrey Ebstein's

482
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,680
Speaker 3: like throat muscles and whatnot in the jar somewhere.

483
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 5: Absolutely. Yeah. We retained brains all the time.

484
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:22,920
Speaker 7: Yeah.

485
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 5: I mean one of the most infamous cases of all time,

486
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,920
Speaker 5: jeffk what Jfkate, one of the most the modern the

487
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:34,120
Speaker 5: most of the twentieth century, the most high profile homicide

488
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 5: in US history, And they've lost his brain. So I'm

489
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 5: just saying it's done. It's done on a regular basis.

490
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 5: But the allers are trained, you know, So I don't

491
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 5: know what to tell you. But if that hasn't if

492
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 5: that was not retained, because this is the crux of

493
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 5: this case, and you want as many eyes on it

494
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 5: as possible. And I'm not talking about out in TikTok

495
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 5: Land or anything. I'm talking about actual professional forensic scientists

496
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 5: that can sit down and confer over this thing.

497
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, because that's the facts.

498
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 2: I mean, there have been other circumstantial things around this case,

499
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 2: we've discussed it here. Obviously, there was that twenty four

500
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 2: hour footage that was you know in the jail cell

501
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 2: that had this lap times what a cluster that was.

502
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 2: That was over the summer, right, So Pam Bondy at

503
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 2: the time, the current head of the DOJ, said that

504
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 2: that's very common. There's always this miss It always had

505
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 2: prisons and then it ended up.

506
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 3: Being many minutes.

507
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 2: It was really like three minutes, and then the guards

508
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 2: fell asleep and then there was every possible thing that

509
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 2: could have gone wrong. So maybe this was just a

510
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 2: very bumpy, clunky suicide. But there has always been this

511
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 2: connective tissue between William Barr Bill Barr, who was the

512
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 2: serving head of the DOJ at that time when Jeffrey

513
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 2: Epstein died, he put in did a big investigation and was,

514
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,960
Speaker 2: you know, outwardly very upset by the idea that this

515
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 2: had gone so sideways and wanted to make sure that,

516
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 2: you know, everything was checked out. And according to his

517
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 2: investigation that you know, he oversaw, sure enough, it was

518
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 2: just a suicide. Interesting unfun or a fun fact. William

519
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 2: Barr's father, Donald Barr, is also the first person to

520
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 2: ever hire Jeffrey Epstein at Dalton High School in New

521
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 2: York City back in the day, the original job that

522
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 2: gave him access.

523
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 3: To socialize the first time.

524
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 5: Right.

525
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, by the way, there's a connection. God knows,

526
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 2: We've tried to find the connection. But father's son and

527
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 2: a lot of legacy.

528
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 3: By the way, Jeffrey Epstein's ashes are buried in an

529
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 3: unmarked grave in Palm Beach Gardens, Florida. Gashes.

530
00:30:56,320 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 5: Well, that's all I'm saying.

531
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 2: I mean, how do we find that out? Is it

532
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 2: possible to find that out? That's not even public information

533
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 2: I assume.

534
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 3: Is it?

535
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 5: Well, you know, hey, it's a suicide, right right.

536
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 3: We're going to look into this. Okay, adding this to

537
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 3: my to adding this to the list.

538
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 2: But yeah, interesting also that there he's been Now he's

539
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 2: in ashes, so there is no way to excreiten his

540
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 2: body and to retest any of these findings.

541
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 5: Well, we've got photographic evidence, you know, from the autopsy,

542
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 5: and we've got what doctor Boton was saying, So we'll see.

543
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 3: Where right, We'll see where it goes.

544
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 2: We have Joseph Scott Morgan at our favorite forensics expert

545
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 2: who's breaking down all things Epstein and also now Celeste

546
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 2: Revis Hernandez, the fourteen year old who was found in

547
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 2: the front trunk also known as a front of David

548
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 2: the Pop Stars tesla, her body really now we know,

549
00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 2: to have been found in such disturbing circumstances, it's shocking

550
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 2: that there has not been an arrest yet, especially since

551
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 2: we now know how grizzly this crime actually was. And Joseph,

552
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 2: we really want to break down some of the forensics

553
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 2: about this with you, Boddie, what do you want to do?

554
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 3: First, we do a little sign. Yeah, I'm gonna do

555
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 3: a little setup and when I want to give everybody

556
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 3: a trigger warning. We're going to be in the segment.

557
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 3: We're going to be discussing the murder of a child

558
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 3: along with details of abuse and violence. And we understand

559
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 3: that this subject matter, you know, can be deeply upsetting

560
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 3: and disturbing to many people, and we want you to

561
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 3: prioritize your well being and you know, skip this segment

562
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 3: if you feel like maybe it's too much for you.

563
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:42,479
Speaker 3: We've learned through these unsealed court filings through David's family.

564
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 3: You know, they were subpoenaed to come testify at a

565
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 3: grand jury, and they were they were fighting it so

566
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 3: in Texas, by the way, so they were subpoena from

567
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 3: California to Texas, and because there's no seal in Texas,

568
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 3: we got to learn some details about the crime, okay,

569
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 3: and we learned some pretty disturbing details, just like you

570
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 3: said stuff. So what we learned was that Celeste really

571
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 3: was found in very poor condition, and we learned that

572
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 3: her body was in two different bags in the trunk,

573
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 3: and that her arms and legs were in one bag,

574
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 3: in her head and torso were in another, and the

575
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 3: bag was covered in insects in the front of her

576
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 3: or you know, the fronk of this tesla that David owned,

577
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 3: and you know, this is all very disturbing. Just for

578
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 3: some background, the vehicle had been you know, first reported

579
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 3: abandoned in front of David's house on August twenty sixth,

580
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 3: and it was impounded three days later by a tow

581
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 3: company and the police were alerted to due to that

582
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 3: strong smell of decay and attracting insects. But let's go

583
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 3: to a talk about before we get in.

584
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:08,840
Speaker 8: Hey, guys, it's Jen from Texas. I finally got up

585
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 8: under the call and leave the talk back. I was

586
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:12,880
Speaker 8: wondering if you all have heard about the recent movement

587
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 8: in the David case to your homes and ABI robox

588
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:17,800
Speaker 8: to recent episode a couple of hours ago, saying that

589
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 8: David is protaly the target of investigation. From what they

590
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 8: shared there had to be like core filings because it's

591
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 8: fabably didn't want to cooperate or something like that. They

592
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:29,280
Speaker 8: also mentioned that a grand jury has been meeting behind

593
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 8: the scenes to decide whether David will be forming charge,

594
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 8: and sadly, they said the police support did state that

595
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:37,760
Speaker 8: por celestis with this members. Anyways, you guys are amazing

596
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 8: and at door c.

597
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:42,399
Speaker 3: To be Oh, thank you, we love you, and yeah,

598
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 3: that's kind of what we're getting right into. Joseph, what

599
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 3: do you what do you make of this?

600
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 7: Uh?

601
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,800
Speaker 3: You know, there's I did do some research. Obviously, the

602
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:56,120
Speaker 3: fronk of David's tesla is not air tight, it's not waterproof,

603
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 3: so of course insects are going to appear. So I

604
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 3: don't does that give you any insight though at all?

605
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 5: Not not really. You know, I'm not shocked because the

606
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 5: one thing I found throughout my career, flies can get

607
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 5: into any area. Of course, it doesn't matter. Uh. They

608
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,279
Speaker 5: will find a way. That's just that's the nature of

609
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 5: being a fly. And and so when you have organic

610
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:22,120
Speaker 5: remains any kind, it can be animal or a human

611
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 5: or whatever. Uh, they're going to fly towards that because

612
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 5: that's that's food source. And so with that said, I'm

613
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 5: not surprised by that.

614
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 3: Uh.

615
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:36,240
Speaker 5: There was that little shocking bit in in the reveal.

616
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:38,760
Speaker 5: I think it was an appendix is what they refer

617
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:43,239
Speaker 5: to this this judicial this document A writ writ that

618
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 5: that was uh constructed, and they talked about how the

619
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:54,880
Speaker 5: the flies were on on their hand and in this

620
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:59,880
Speaker 5: and that they were lighting there. Uh, I'm not surprised

621
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 5: by that. What I was kind of taken a back

622
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 5: buy and I had to go out and do research.

623
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 5: Like you body immediately as soon as I saw this,

624
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:09,799
Speaker 5: I was thinking, I'm going into body mode right now.

625
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 5: And so what I did was put I went to

626
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 5: Amazon and put in cadaver back. That is not something

627
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,799
Speaker 5: that's not that is not a vernacular term for those

628
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 5: of us in this world right our word is our

629
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 5: words are body bag.

630
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 3: And so I thought of you.

631
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 2: I thought of actually very difficult because Joseph, you know,

632
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:33,799
Speaker 2: we've talked so many times too.

633
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 3: It seems like such a specific item.

634
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 2: Surely there's a ton of body bags or kadava bags

635
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 2: being bought, but body was able to find them so

636
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:44,800
Speaker 2: quickly on Amazon even that was slightly alarming.

637
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 5: Who was buying all these? And I think a lot

638
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 5: of people use them for animals that they want to

639
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:51,400
Speaker 5: bury on the property. But yeah, I mean, you can

640
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:53,800
Speaker 5: get them a variety of sizes, and trust me, do

641
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 5: your own research. I'm not going to go into the

642
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 5: sizes because it's disturbing, but you can buy you can

643
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 5: buy so called cadaver backs. And that's what that's what

644
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:04,360
Speaker 5: the writ refers to.

645
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 3: That's what it says in the documents.

646
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 5: Right and so, and years and years ago, they used

647
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:13,800
Speaker 5: to be referred to, believe it or not, as disaster pouches.

648
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:17,800
Speaker 5: That predates predates body bags, So disaster pouches. That was

649
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 5: a cleaner way of saying it. But now we're back

650
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 5: to cadaver backs. And here here's the thing, y'all. I

651
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:27,880
Speaker 5: gotta tell you, I don't know how many people up

652
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 5: in the Hollywood Hills purchase cadaver backs. But if you're

653
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 5: gonna do a search and you're gonna plug this in

654
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 5: unless it said Halloween. Uh, you know, somebody might do

655
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 5: this as a gag, as a goof, you know, to

656
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:43,279
Speaker 5: put in their yard or something like our prop prop.

657
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,400
Speaker 5: And there are all kinds of supply houses obviously, but

658
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:50,239
Speaker 5: you know where you're going to go to get these? Well,

659
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 5: Amazon is not the only spot. There are tons of

660
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:55,880
Speaker 5: places you can go. You can even go to the Walmart.

661
00:37:56,040 --> 00:38:00,360
Speaker 5: You can go to the Walmart website and buy buy casket. Okay, so.

662
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 3: You can buy a casket at tractor supply.

663
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:06,640
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, yeah, They're everywhere. So this is nothing new

664
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 5: under the sun. It did give me Pauls though, you

665
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:11,719
Speaker 5: know when I thought about it too. If if this

666
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 5: is what you're doing, all right, let's just kind of

667
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:17,360
Speaker 5: follow the logic here from any we're investigators. That's what

668
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 5: we're having. An investigative conversation. Why a couldaver bag? Why

669
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:29,360
Speaker 5: not go out and buy a heavy duty trash bags

670
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:31,360
Speaker 5: that you're going to get a little rid of debris

671
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 5: on your property? Why why is it exactly do you

672
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:37,799
Speaker 5: go out and you're going to purchase a could daver bag?

673
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 5: It just I guess.

674
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 4: But you know, well, Boddy, when you mentioned as a

675
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:48,440
Speaker 4: prop this may sound ridiculous, but I thought that was

676
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:53,480
Speaker 4: actually very interesting because when this case first came to

677
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:55,759
Speaker 4: all of our attention, I think I and a lot

678
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:59,600
Speaker 4: of people were watching the pop star David's videos and

679
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 4: they were a lot of them were really dark, and

680
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:06,400
Speaker 4: they were apocalyptic caskets, and they did have caskets, and

681
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 4: they did have death, and so I was like, oh,

682
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:11,279
Speaker 4: they he.

683
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:14,920
Speaker 3: Might have literally, you know, known used one as a prop.

684
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:19,560
Speaker 3: And just I emailed Joseph the morning we got access

685
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:21,320
Speaker 3: to you know this written I think, you know, I

686
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:24,400
Speaker 3: think I emailed Jarrett Farentino too, and I was like,

687
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 3: oh my god, you guys look at this. And the

688
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:28,719
Speaker 3: first thing I thought of, obviously was Joseph and his

689
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 3: hit podcast body Bags for obvious reasons, right. And the

690
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 3: second thing I thought of was the prop because when

691
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:39,440
Speaker 3: we were talking about like the burn cage that you know,

692
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:44,239
Speaker 3: the private investigator Stephen Fisher found and whatnot, and you know,

693
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:46,919
Speaker 3: I was looking at the videos of that David had made.

694
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 3: They were all very theatrical, they were all very dark

695
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:53,840
Speaker 3: in macabre, and I was like, man, this was this

696
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:56,840
Speaker 3: something he had on hand already.

697
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:00,120
Speaker 5: Because it is you know, and look, I'm not a

698
00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:02,440
Speaker 5: code enforce or anything. Here, but in La County is

699
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:05,879
Speaker 5: he legal to use for burn cages? You know, they'll

700
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:07,840
Speaker 5: probably put you under the jail out there for that

701
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:08,399
Speaker 5: if they.

702
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:11,319
Speaker 3: Can get you, especially after the Palisades fire. Yeah.

703
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:13,320
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, yeah, they're.

704
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 3: Going under the jail for that. Yeah for sure.

705
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 5: Yeah.

706
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 3: I mean these are things that you just don't find

707
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 3: in the Hollywood Hills home.

708
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 5: Yeah. And actually I had a conversation forgive me, I

709
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 5: love this guy. He is, so I've been on air

710
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:26,160
Speaker 5: with him a couple of times. What's the pi's name again,

711
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:30,400
Speaker 5: ste Fisher, Steve Fisher. We had I don't I'm not

712
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:32,040
Speaker 5: trying to be morbid, but we kind of had a

713
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:34,839
Speaker 5: laugh about this. I was on one program with him

714
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 5: and I said, so, Steve, let me ask you something.

715
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:39,840
Speaker 5: You're paying twenty k a month for this place, you

716
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:43,040
Speaker 5: know up in the hills. Do you have to do

717
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:47,600
Speaker 5: your own gardening? And he kind of giggled and he said, no,

718
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:51,359
Speaker 5: that's included. And I was like, so there's no need

719
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 5: to gut and buy a brand new chainsaw or you know,

720
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 5: a burncage or rakes or whatever. That's going to be

721
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 5: taken care of. Correct. Yeah, the landlord would facilitate all

722
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 5: of that, and I knew that already, but you know,

723
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:06,720
Speaker 5: when you think about it, you've got all this stuff,

724
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:09,920
Speaker 5: and yeah, coincidence has happened, and I guess movie shoots

725
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:12,720
Speaker 5: or video shoots happen and all that sort of stuff.

726
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:15,319
Speaker 5: It's kind of odd, particularly when it contains the body

727
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:15,919
Speaker 5: of a young girl.

728
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 3: It makes me think and I'm just thinking out loud,

729
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:22,600
Speaker 3: and please forgive me. I don't mean to be graphic,

730
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:25,480
Speaker 3: but it makes me think that the intention was to

731
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:28,440
Speaker 3: keep her in the bag, because obviously these bags are

732
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 3: tained fluid and their leak proof and things like that. Right,

733
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:35,759
Speaker 3: it makes me think that, oh, she's in the bag.

734
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 3: It's fine. I don't have to worry about it, do

735
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 3: you know what I mean? Like in his mind or

736
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 3: whoever's mine, whoever's responsible for this.

737
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:46,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, most body bags, I'm sorry to me step on you.

738
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:51,279
Speaker 5: Most body bags are how can I say this? They're

739
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 5: kind of double lined. Have a you have another this

740
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:57,279
Speaker 5: it's almost like a film inside of it. That's a

741
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:00,200
Speaker 5: clear plastic. It all depends you know, you buy. It's

742
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 5: like anything else. You can get high end, you can

743
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:04,960
Speaker 5: get low end, okay, but most of them that we use,

744
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:09,239
Speaker 5: you won't containment because of circumstances like this that are

745
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:11,800
Speaker 5: very difficult to deal with. I'll do that as politely

746
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 5: as I can. Fluids, things like that, and so containment

747
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:18,759
Speaker 5: is a big deal. This is what they're purposed for,

748
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 5: this is what they're made for. And so when I

749
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:25,640
Speaker 5: see that, you know, it kind of spurs my mind

750
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:27,960
Speaker 5: to begin to think about these sorts of things. What's

751
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 5: your motive behind using this?

752
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 4: Right?

753
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:32,560
Speaker 2: Wasn't there a lot of conversation at one point when

754
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:35,720
Speaker 2: her body was first discovered that there was some water logging,

755
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:39,120
Speaker 2: meaning that maybe she had been soaked. There was a

756
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:43,479
Speaker 2: lot of conversation that the medical examinator, the examiner versus

757
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 2: the person who did the initial autopsy versus the police

758
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:49,400
Speaker 2: all had you know, varying opinions.

759
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:52,880
Speaker 3: Again, this was presented to the media. We don't have

760
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:54,319
Speaker 3: that in front of us right now.

761
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:57,720
Speaker 2: But the suspicion was that there was some conversation about

762
00:42:58,120 --> 00:42:59,840
Speaker 2: her being water logged.

763
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 3: Or frozen frozen.

764
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:05,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I think Steve, Steve Stephen, I think he

765
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:10,680
Speaker 5: actually there's a deep freeze in that place and to him,

766
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:12,840
Speaker 5: and he's former I think he's former LA County. I

767
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:15,680
Speaker 5: can't remember he said there was no evidence inside of

768
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 5: the deep freeze that anything like that had happened. Now

769
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:22,839
Speaker 5: to that point, he's not a forensics guy. I don't

770
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 5: know if they I hope they took that freezer and

771
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:28,960
Speaker 5: they did some kind of molecular level testing wink wink,

772
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 5: not nod if you know what I mean about there,

773
00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 5: or at least took samples on the interior of the

774
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:33,799
Speaker 5: thing to see.

775
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 3: I think samples were probably taken, but I don't think

776
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:37,359
Speaker 3: they took it otherwise he wouldn't.

777
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 5: Have access to it. Right, Yeah, that's true. That's true,

778
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:41,359
Speaker 5: because yeah, you're absolutely right. Good point.

779
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:44,759
Speaker 4: Well, I wonder is that a guess that I mean,

780
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 4: it would be a logical guess that samples were taken,

781
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:53,160
Speaker 4: but keep in mind things that weren't taken included the burning, which.

782
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 3: Was yeah, I had to find that. Yeah right, so

783
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:02,400
Speaker 3: true the lord, right, I mean exactly.

784
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:06,400
Speaker 5: The part. I mean, if I was a landlord. I

785
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:09,320
Speaker 5: think that's a brilliant stroke on their part, because this

786
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:13,000
Speaker 5: guy probably knew what direction this is going in, you know.

787
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:16,200
Speaker 3: Oh yeah. Well, and Stephen's pash ground is is SAR

788
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:20,360
Speaker 3: search and rescue, and he specializes in missing persons so

789
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:22,239
Speaker 3: I think he's done a really really good job on

790
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:23,319
Speaker 3: this so far.

791
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:28,399
Speaker 5: Which I love about him. He doesn't show his card.

792
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:29,880
Speaker 5: He's a great conversation.

793
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:31,319
Speaker 3: I've worked with him for a long well, not worked

794
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 3: with him, but i've worked, you know, with him on

795
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 3: other cases. He's great, he's great.

796
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:35,279
Speaker 5: Yeah.

797
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:39,040
Speaker 2: Do you think it's possible that one person could have

798
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 2: committed this crime? Given that there are two full bags

799
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:47,839
Speaker 2: and the level of dismembering that occurred on this poor

800
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:52,040
Speaker 2: young woman's body, is it humanly possible that one one

801
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 2: person could have pulled this off?

802
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 5: It's possible. I don't think it's probable, and it would be.

803
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 5: But when you get people that are first off, they've

804
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:06,800
Speaker 5: probably never delved into something like this, I would imagine

805
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:10,440
Speaker 5: I don't know who did it, Okay, allegedly, allegedly allegedly,

806
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:14,200
Speaker 5: I don't know who did it. I think however, however,

807
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:17,560
Speaker 5: it's a much easier job with two, and how much

808
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:21,279
Speaker 5: more easier it is with three. And so when I

809
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 5: see this, here's something interesting too that I wanted just

810
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:28,720
Speaker 5: to pass on real quick. With the cold. The remains

811
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:32,200
Speaker 5: in the cadaver bag and I'm using that term as

812
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:35,360
Speaker 5: they're using it not as Morgan uses it, because I

813
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:39,360
Speaker 5: don't use it. They're saying that the head and the

814
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 5: porso were found in the kudaver bag. Do you know

815
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 5: why they're saying that because the head in the torso,

816
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 5: torso in particular, is the most difficult element of human

817
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:53,920
Speaker 5: anatomy dispose of, so it has to be contained separately.

818
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:59,480
Speaker 5: Limbs are one thing. Okay, that's a completely different animal,

819
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:06,799
Speaker 5: easy to take care of, dispose of without being impossible,

820
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:11,560
Speaker 5: not somewhat graphic. But I'm wondering if the head and

821
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:19,759
Speaker 5: the torso we're still intact together. Yeah because not likely, Yeah,

822
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:23,759
Speaker 5: not likely, but it it presents logistically it is a

823
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:26,239
Speaker 5: nightmare to have to deal with a torso. And that's

824
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:29,919
Speaker 5: when we do dismember the cases we investigated. That's the one,

825
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 5: the one area that people really screw up in because

826
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:35,400
Speaker 5: they don't they don't see it coming. They think, oh,

827
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:39,879
Speaker 5: arm leg you know whatever, Oh lord, I've got torso too.

828
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:44,280
Speaker 5: It's something completely different. So I find that very interesting

829
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:45,400
Speaker 5: that it was back separately.

830
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 4: MM Well, as always, we will keep you updated as

831
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:53,560
Speaker 4: this case unfolds and we will see what happens next.

832
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 4: But coming up, we're going to talk about the case

833
00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:59,799
Speaker 4: of Angel Marie Thompson. She's accused of killing her girl

834
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 4: friend and then stealing her identity. We're so happy forensic

835
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:07,080
Speaker 4: expert Joseph Scott Morgan is sticking.

836
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:10,960
Speaker 3: Around to break that down. Keep it here, True Crime Tonight.

837
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:24,960
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight and iHeartRadio. We're talking

838
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:28,279
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with

839
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:31,440
Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong and Body Move In. And of course it

840
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:35,279
Speaker 2: is Tuesday, and we have Joseph Scott Morgan, our very

841
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:37,000
Speaker 2: favorite expert.

842
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:41,520
Speaker 3: Oh, yes, yes, yes, I'd like to call him forensics Daddy.

843
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:54,280
Speaker 3: Yes for me, cringe, cringe, Yeah, it's Joseph.

844
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:57,600
Speaker 2: You are crushing it right now, and it's really helpful

845
00:47:57,640 --> 00:47:59,320
Speaker 2: because you have a way of just sort of breaking

846
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:02,239
Speaker 2: down with James, very gross and disgusting and sort of

847
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:05,560
Speaker 2: hard to wrap our brains around into very clinical and

848
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:06,720
Speaker 2: sacred ways.

849
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:08,880
Speaker 3: Kind of your greatness.

850
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:12,359
Speaker 2: So if anybody listening hasn't heard his podcast three nights

851
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:15,279
Speaker 2: a week, so it is three episodes a week, I

852
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:19,160
Speaker 2: should say body Bag, So please check it out. Also

853
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 2: on the iHeartRadio app. So, body, what's next for your

854
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:25,920
Speaker 2: forensics Daddy?

855
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:31,360
Speaker 3: I present to you to forensics Daddy. The case of

856
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:37,040
Speaker 3: Angel Thompson. All right, so a Georgia grand jury has

857
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:43,920
Speaker 3: indicted Angel Thompson, Angel Marie Thompson on more than eighty counts. Okay,

858
00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:48,719
Speaker 3: now these are including malice murder and felony murder in

859
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:54,520
Speaker 3: the two thousand and seven killing of her girlfriend, Nicole Alston. Okay,

860
00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 3: now this is a really old murder. Has just got indicted.

861
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:04,520
Speaker 3: So on December six of two thousand and seven, the

862
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:08,880
Speaker 3: dismember another dismemberment. What is going on? Another dismemberment. On

863
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:12,880
Speaker 3: December sixth of two thousand and seven, the dismembered remains

864
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:17,040
Speaker 3: of twenty four year old Nicole Austin. They were discovered

865
00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:22,920
Speaker 3: inside this burning black bag and an intersection in Hogansville, Georgia.

866
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:26,279
Speaker 3: What an odd place for this to happen, right like

867
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:31,120
Speaker 3: just in the middle of the street, this burning black bag.

868
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:36,240
Speaker 3: Inside were these you know, remains. But she wasn't identified.

869
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:38,839
Speaker 3: They didn't know who she was, right, So for more

870
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:41,319
Speaker 3: than fifteen years they were trying to figure this out,

871
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:45,920
Speaker 3: and because of the condition of her body, well, in

872
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:50,360
Speaker 3: December of twenty twenty three, finally DNA testing confirmed that

873
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:54,400
Speaker 3: the victim was Nicole Austin. And since they now know

874
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:57,359
Speaker 3: who the victim is, they were able to investigate her

875
00:49:57,520 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 3: connections right, and that led investigators to arrest her former girlfriend,

876
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:08,239
Speaker 3: angel Marie Thompson. Now she's been additionally charged with assuming

877
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:13,800
Speaker 3: get this, she took over Nicole's identity after, you know,

878
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:17,160
Speaker 3: to commit fraud and like live as her because she

879
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:20,759
Speaker 3: was kind of like a dirt you know, she she

880
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:23,360
Speaker 3: didn't really have any finances or anything, so she was

881
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:27,640
Speaker 3: living under her name, which prosecutors alleged she was doing

882
00:50:27,719 --> 00:50:30,520
Speaker 3: for nearly a decade. Joseph, what about this?

883
00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:33,839
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's nutty. And I love what you pointed out

884
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:38,399
Speaker 5: about the you know there on the road side, and yeah,

885
00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:40,680
Speaker 5: it is. When people think Georgia, they always think Atlanta.

886
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:44,759
Speaker 5: There's a lot more to george than Atlanta. Yeah, and

887
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:47,840
Speaker 5: it's a big state. And so I know Hogansville and

888
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:51,440
Speaker 5: know that area down there. It's a rural area. And

889
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:54,840
Speaker 5: just so that you know, if as investigators, if we

890
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:59,239
Speaker 5: ever found something along a roadway, the first thing that

891
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:02,680
Speaker 5: goes off in our rains as we think speed, because

892
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:05,840
Speaker 5: it's it's almost like a dumping like if if you

893
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:08,439
Speaker 5: if you cannot take the time to go off into

894
00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:12,200
Speaker 5: a distant area. Many times, this gives you an idea

895
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:15,360
Speaker 5: that the person that did this was, you know, snap

896
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 5: on like this, they're gonna get rid of the body,

897
00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:20,520
Speaker 5: put as much distance between them and the body. And oh,

898
00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:22,560
Speaker 5: by the bye, I think I'll set the thing a blaze,

899
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:25,799
Speaker 5: uh or forgive me, I don't mean to be disrespectful,

900
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:27,879
Speaker 5: so that the remains a blaze at that point in time,

901
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:32,080
Speaker 5: and then speed off. And how it's amazing to me

902
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:35,759
Speaker 5: how long they dodged the she dodged this bullet. We're

903
00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:40,880
Speaker 5: talking a couple of decades now, Yeah, I really am too,

904
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:44,600
Speaker 5: and that they did this this id through d n A.

905
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:48,080
Speaker 5: If you've I've covered a lot of cases that I

906
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:49,560
Speaker 5: used to work in Georgia. I was with the m

907
00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:53,520
Speaker 5: E in Atlanta. Authorities in Georgia, out of any any

908
00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:55,759
Speaker 5: of the states, particularly in the South, it seems to me,

909
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:58,040
Speaker 5: they are more tight lipt than any other state, like

910
00:51:58,120 --> 00:52:00,719
Speaker 5: particularly I would imagine that GBI, that Georgia Bureau of

911
00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:01,840
Speaker 5: Investigation got involved.

912
00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:03,799
Speaker 3: Organization, by the way, it is.

913
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:06,200
Speaker 5: A great organization, but they know how to keep their

914
00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:09,320
Speaker 5: mouth shut. They've all got lockjaw and so which is

915
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:12,000
Speaker 5: a good thing from an investigator standpoint, so you don't

916
00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:16,560
Speaker 5: have information leaking out. So even in this case, which

917
00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:20,160
Speaker 5: by the way, has not been adjudicated yet, I don't.

918
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 3: Think she's just been indicted. That's it.

919
00:52:21,719 --> 00:52:25,720
Speaker 5: Yes, she just been indicted, So we're dollars to donuts.

920
00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:27,880
Speaker 5: We're not going to hear anything about the elements that

921
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:31,799
Speaker 5: were contained in the back. So that forensic pathologist gets

922
00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:33,200
Speaker 5: up on the stand. Now I can tell you this.

923
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:38,279
Speaker 5: They do broadcast trials in Georgia, so you'll see you'll

924
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:41,960
Speaker 5: probably see this. Uh, it'll be something that people will

925
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:44,799
Speaker 5: clam or clamor to watch. But I just don't How

926
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:47,880
Speaker 5: can you say that you're intimately involved with someone and

927
00:52:48,040 --> 00:52:53,080
Speaker 5: then that person intimately involved with disappears and no one's saying, hey,

928
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:54,600
Speaker 5: you know what happened to your girlfriend?

929
00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:57,400
Speaker 3: I think they might. I think I might know a

930
00:52:57,560 --> 00:53:02,480
Speaker 3: little bit why this, why that happened. Because she was

931
00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:05,560
Speaker 3: discovered on December sixth, right of two thousand and seven,

932
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:09,800
Speaker 3: while her family last heard from her around Thanksgiving, so

933
00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:13,560
Speaker 3: right before you know her body was found, that's the

934
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:17,200
Speaker 3: last time her family heard from her. Because she left

935
00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:21,400
Speaker 3: New York and moved with her girlfriend down to Georgia.

936
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:26,640
Speaker 3: So basically, both women were new to the area. And

937
00:53:26,719 --> 00:53:29,560
Speaker 3: I don't think that the I don't think that the

938
00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:34,160
Speaker 3: suspect in this case, Angel really had made enough associates

939
00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:36,360
Speaker 3: to be like, where's that girl you were with or

940
00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:39,200
Speaker 3: where's your girlfriend? You know, I think that's probably why.

941
00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:42,960
Speaker 3: But so, her family last heard from her around Thanksgiving

942
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:45,000
Speaker 3: of two thousand and seven, after she left New York

943
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:50,560
Speaker 3: with her girlfriend, right and so two. In twenty twenty three,

944
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:54,040
Speaker 3: her remains were submitted for DNA analysis and genetic genealogy,

945
00:53:54,680 --> 00:53:57,920
Speaker 3: and they received confirmation of a positive DNA match identifying

946
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:03,960
Speaker 3: her remains. And you know, Angel was booked in twenty

947
00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:08,279
Speaker 3: twenty four, so it took the investigators a while to

948
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:11,080
Speaker 3: do the investigation once they realized who the victim was,

949
00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:12,719
Speaker 3: because they had to go back in.

950
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:16,440
Speaker 5: Time they did. Here's one other interesting piece to this.

951
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:21,000
Speaker 5: I've had I've had body parts that were contained in

952
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:24,640
Speaker 5: plastic bags. Okay, that has happened the fact, And I

953
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:26,839
Speaker 5: don't know that this was plastic. Again, they're being tight

954
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:30,360
Speaker 5: lipped about it. The idea i'd have to default to

955
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:32,600
Speaker 5: that and I guess it could be a black canvas bag.

956
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:33,960
Speaker 3: I don't know. True.

957
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:37,719
Speaker 5: However they got let me tell you how closely they

958
00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:42,160
Speaker 5: missed this. They got to the scene in time to

959
00:54:42,239 --> 00:54:45,440
Speaker 5: appreciate that there was a bag at all, which is

960
00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:49,320
Speaker 5: fascinating away. Right, If you have something that's fully engulfed,

961
00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:52,160
Speaker 5: like if it was a plastic or something, it's poof,

962
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:55,640
Speaker 5: it's gone and you can't reclaim that. Now, you might

963
00:54:55,680 --> 00:55:00,720
Speaker 5: can find some residue, particularly many times with burned bodies

964
00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:05,120
Speaker 5: or other items, if it's contained in something. The largest

965
00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:07,080
Speaker 5: amount of information you're going to find out about the

966
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:09,799
Speaker 5: item that has been burned is on the underside where

967
00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:12,920
Speaker 5: it's contacting the earth, because many times that'll still be intact.

968
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:14,560
Speaker 5: I'll give you for instance, if we have a body

969
00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:19,279
Speaker 5: that's burned and the body is fully clothed, depend upon

970
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:23,440
Speaker 5: the level of heat involved, the clothing on the visible

971
00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:27,759
Speaker 5: like bodies laying face up, gone. But all you have

972
00:55:27,840 --> 00:55:29,359
Speaker 5: to do is roll the body over and you can

973
00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:32,440
Speaker 5: fully appreciate the name tags in the shirt, you can

974
00:55:32,760 --> 00:55:35,680
Speaker 5: the patterns, the colors. All of that stuff is protected.

975
00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:40,040
Speaker 5: So it's interesting that they missed her doing this. It's

976
00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:43,680
Speaker 5: like two ships passing very quickly, and here we are

977
00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:48,560
Speaker 5: with this delay, all these years later. And now they

978
00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:52,799
Speaker 5: finally literally breathe life back in this case with genetic genealogy.

979
00:55:53,080 --> 00:55:55,120
Speaker 3: It's crazy, and there's so many things being solved with.

980
00:55:55,200 --> 00:55:58,080
Speaker 4: That, so many things, it really is. I mean, it

981
00:55:58,120 --> 00:56:02,080
Speaker 4: has changed the course of the judicial system. If you're

982
00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:04,840
Speaker 4: just joining us, this is true Crime Tonight, and we

983
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:08,680
Speaker 4: are joined with forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan, who is

984
00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:11,680
Speaker 4: helping break down the case of a woman named Angel

985
00:56:11,760 --> 00:56:15,320
Speaker 4: Marie Thompson. She's been indicted on more than eighty counts,

986
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:20,239
Speaker 4: including murder in the two thousand and seven killing of

987
00:56:20,760 --> 00:56:24,480
Speaker 4: her girlfriend at the time, Nicole Alston. So just in

988
00:56:24,640 --> 00:56:27,800
Speaker 4: looking at this case a little bit, so it seems

989
00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:30,479
Speaker 4: like all these eighty counts, which is hard to wrap

990
00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:35,920
Speaker 4: your brain around that it included, you know, with the

991
00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:40,680
Speaker 4: stolen identity, collecting social Security benefits and food stamps, Section

992
00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:44,960
Speaker 4: eight housing, totaling an estimated two hundred thousand dollars in fraud.

993
00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:49,520
Speaker 3: Right, she assumed her identity. And you know what's interesting

994
00:56:49,560 --> 00:56:52,120
Speaker 3: to me is the family wouldn't they did they report

995
00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:52,680
Speaker 3: her missing?

996
00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:56,320
Speaker 5: I thought the same thing, and no, no, no, I

997
00:56:56,400 --> 00:56:58,080
Speaker 5: thought the same thing. I don't know that they did,

998
00:56:58,200 --> 00:57:01,319
Speaker 5: but I'm thinking, boy, you're really sticking your chin out. Yeah,

999
00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:04,239
Speaker 5: you're dancing along the knife edge here. You're going to

1000
00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:08,200
Speaker 5: assume her identity and then you're gonna, you know, you're

1001
00:57:08,239 --> 00:57:12,440
Speaker 5: going to invest yourself into this person who's no longer existing.

1002
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:16,000
Speaker 5: And yet it's a huge red flag, you know, suddenly,

1003
00:57:16,200 --> 00:57:18,360
Speaker 5: you know, the family comes this is not my daughter.

1004
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:22,360
Speaker 5: I don't know who this person is, right, And it's fascinating.

1005
00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:24,920
Speaker 5: What a what a risk to take, I think in

1006
00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:27,440
Speaker 5: you know, address, so circumstances, like.

1007
00:57:27,600 --> 00:57:29,880
Speaker 3: I'm sure that's what led them to her, was that

1008
00:57:30,080 --> 00:57:35,120
Speaker 3: she was because here's what happened. So apparently the victim, Nicole,

1009
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:37,600
Speaker 3: wanted to go home to New York, all right, but

1010
00:57:37,680 --> 00:57:39,959
Speaker 3: the girlfriend they'd only been in Georgia for like a month.

1011
00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:43,080
Speaker 3: But the girlfriend, uh, you know, the suspect in this

1012
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:45,840
Speaker 3: case couldn't go back to New York because she had

1013
00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:51,440
Speaker 3: investigations on her in New York for theft and identity fraud.

1014
00:57:52,040 --> 00:57:57,680
Speaker 3: So she was already stealing people's identities before this even happened. Okay,

1015
00:57:58,120 --> 00:57:59,640
Speaker 3: so they get down to Georgia, she wanted to go

1016
00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:01,920
Speaker 3: back to New York and the girlfriend was like, we

1017
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:04,640
Speaker 3: can't go. I can't go back to New York, and

1018
00:58:05,080 --> 00:58:07,960
Speaker 3: apparently the victim was kind of like the finance the Breadwinner,

1019
00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:11,680
Speaker 3: all right, And because Nicole wanted to go home, so

1020
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:16,960
Speaker 3: instead of just letting her go, you know, Angel was like,

1021
00:58:17,280 --> 00:58:20,320
Speaker 3: I'm going to kill her and assume her identity like

1022
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:22,320
Speaker 3: I did in New York. This is how I live.

1023
00:58:22,920 --> 00:58:24,280
Speaker 3: This is the life I live now.

1024
00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:27,040
Speaker 5: She's been running the game for a while a while,

1025
00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:30,720
Speaker 5: and so yeah, and so's she's used to this. I

1026
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:33,480
Speaker 5: can only imagine the journey that the investigators had to

1027
00:58:33,560 --> 00:58:37,080
Speaker 5: take on this, you know, little Hogansville police departments. I

1028
00:58:37,160 --> 00:58:41,400
Speaker 5: think that's like True County, George County, which is the

1029
00:58:41,560 --> 00:58:45,360
Speaker 5: Sheriff's office. You would have to probably because when you're

1030
00:58:45,480 --> 00:58:48,000
Speaker 5: dealing with something that is in fact this complex and

1031
00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:50,920
Speaker 5: it's going nowhere, you're going to want a large organization

1032
00:58:51,120 --> 00:58:53,840
Speaker 5: like the GBI involved in it so that they can

1033
00:58:54,120 --> 00:58:56,760
Speaker 5: you know, marshal all of their resources and even calling

1034
00:58:56,800 --> 00:59:00,960
Speaker 5: the FEDS if they need to trace evidence becomes very

1035
00:59:00,960 --> 00:59:05,040
Speaker 5: important in a case like this. I'm thinking, was there

1036
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:09,160
Speaker 5: were there any bits of clothing? People are amazed when

1037
00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:11,919
Speaker 5: they hear this, and this is kind of a little

1038
00:59:12,040 --> 00:59:18,040
Speaker 5: forensic aside, but did you know that the FBI used

1039
00:59:18,040 --> 00:59:20,800
Speaker 5: to have one of the largest collections of zippers and

1040
00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:24,560
Speaker 5: buttons of any organization in the world. And the reason

1041
00:59:24,600 --> 00:59:27,320
Speaker 5: they would is that they would collect these buttons and

1042
00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:29,520
Speaker 5: zippers along the way so if there was a bit

1043
00:59:29,560 --> 00:59:32,880
Speaker 5: of clothing that needed to be identified, that could link

1044
00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:36,520
Speaker 5: that back to those items that are unknown that they find.

1045
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:38,800
Speaker 5: And they had all this exotic stuff that they could

1046
00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:42,000
Speaker 5: find all over the world, stitching patterns, all that stuff.

1047
00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:44,400
Speaker 5: They used to there used to be a group within

1048
00:59:44,480 --> 00:59:48,400
Speaker 5: the organization that would collect shoes. Matter of fact, do

1049
00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:50,600
Speaker 5: you here's a bit of trivia. Do you know what?

1050
00:59:51,640 --> 00:59:53,200
Speaker 5: Do you know what crime?

1051
00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:54,320
Speaker 9: What?

1052
00:59:54,680 --> 00:59:57,640
Speaker 5: Footwear has been worn more frequently in the Commission of

1053
00:59:57,800 --> 01:00:04,960
Speaker 5: Felony in US history than any other footwear conference. Bingo. Yeah,

1054
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:08,040
Speaker 5: that's why they're called felony flyers. If you see Chuck

1055
01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:09,440
Speaker 5: Chuck Taylor's.

1056
01:00:09,880 --> 01:00:10,600
Speaker 3: It is conference.

1057
01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:12,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, why am I so excited?

1058
01:00:12,640 --> 01:00:13,120
Speaker 4: Did I win.

1059
01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:18,760
Speaker 5: My wife? Every year of a different color? They used

1060
01:00:18,760 --> 01:00:23,000
Speaker 5: to have an entire class on footwear for felony flyers

1061
01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:25,520
Speaker 5: because they were used with such frequency that were very

1062
01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:27,720
Speaker 5: they used to be very very cheap, you know, canvas,

1063
01:00:27,960 --> 01:00:32,920
Speaker 5: slab or rubber and so yeah, they they it's amazing

1064
01:00:33,040 --> 01:00:35,040
Speaker 5: what they can do with trace evidence, and these were

1065
01:00:35,120 --> 01:00:37,040
Speaker 5: things that I'm not saying that happened in this case,

1066
01:00:37,080 --> 01:00:39,720
Speaker 5: but trace evidence would play a part in this. You

1067
01:00:39,880 --> 01:00:43,240
Speaker 5: have to consider though, containing a bag, how well was

1068
01:00:43,320 --> 01:00:46,800
Speaker 5: it preserved in the face of extreme heat and how

1069
01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:50,920
Speaker 5: long did that extreme heat last? Because if she's in

1070
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:53,840
Speaker 5: a bag, I'm wondering if there are elements of dismemberment

1071
01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:56,720
Speaker 5: here or was this several bags that were wrapped around

1072
01:00:56,800 --> 01:00:59,840
Speaker 5: her body and then set on fire where the body

1073
01:00:59,920 --> 01:01:03,160
Speaker 5: is intact. So that's a big question, I think for me.

1074
01:01:04,200 --> 01:01:06,120
Speaker 3: So there's a couple of things I want to, you know,

1075
01:01:06,280 --> 01:01:09,080
Speaker 3: put a pin in so we can wrap this up

1076
01:01:09,240 --> 01:01:13,280
Speaker 3: for this segment. But so the investigator on this case,

1077
01:01:13,400 --> 01:01:17,160
Speaker 3: investigator Brian he said, the family deserves some finality, they

1078
01:01:17,240 --> 01:01:22,440
Speaker 3: deserve the truth, calling Thompson's Thompson a true psychopath. And

1079
01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:26,640
Speaker 3: the victim's mom, her name is Sylvia Austen, she described

1080
01:01:26,680 --> 01:01:29,560
Speaker 3: her daughter. She didn't deserve this. She was the life

1081
01:01:29,600 --> 01:01:32,840
Speaker 3: of the party. She was happy, and she was happy

1082
01:01:32,920 --> 01:01:37,400
Speaker 3: and through all her struggles, she always made everything seem okay.

1083
01:01:37,520 --> 01:01:39,240
Speaker 3: So she was a big comfort to her family. And

1084
01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:43,120
Speaker 3: I'm so sorry for their loss. This is horrific. One

1085
01:01:43,160 --> 01:01:47,400
Speaker 3: other thing too, they're planning on charging her with trafficking.

1086
01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:51,040
Speaker 3: I saw that. I was gonna ask, do we have

1087
01:01:51,120 --> 01:01:55,160
Speaker 3: any further information? Yeah? Maybe because she wanted to leave,

1088
01:01:56,480 --> 01:01:59,680
Speaker 3: she wanted to go back to New York. And maybe

1089
01:01:59,720 --> 01:02:02,440
Speaker 3: there's some evidence that she didn't want to leave New

1090
01:02:02,480 --> 01:02:05,880
Speaker 3: York at all to be in with Oh, do you

1091
01:02:05,960 --> 01:02:06,400
Speaker 3: know what I mean?

1092
01:02:06,920 --> 01:02:07,080
Speaker 5: Right?

1093
01:02:07,240 --> 01:02:07,560
Speaker 3: Maybe?

1094
01:02:07,680 --> 01:02:12,000
Speaker 4: Okay, that's interesting. And then I also understand that on

1095
01:02:12,160 --> 01:02:17,640
Speaker 4: the very night that Nicole Austen's body was found, that

1096
01:02:18,080 --> 01:02:22,360
Speaker 4: the accused was active on dating websites. I'm not surprised

1097
01:02:22,400 --> 01:02:25,200
Speaker 4: by this anyway. What a piece of work she's got

1098
01:02:25,240 --> 01:02:29,120
Speaker 4: it for her next target. Yeah, but I can't believe

1099
01:02:29,160 --> 01:02:32,760
Speaker 4: it's that time already. Joseph Scott Morgan, we have to

1100
01:02:32,880 --> 01:02:35,600
Speaker 4: thank you for being with us and making large.

1101
01:02:36,760 --> 01:02:38,560
Speaker 3: He's going to turn into a pumpkin if he stays

1102
01:02:38,560 --> 01:02:39,320
Speaker 3: away a bit longer.

1103
01:02:39,640 --> 01:02:39,960
Speaker 9: I know.

1104
01:02:42,040 --> 01:02:46,000
Speaker 4: Listen, anyone who wants more true crime forensic deep dives

1105
01:02:46,080 --> 01:02:50,160
Speaker 4: can find them on Joseph's amazing hit podcast body Bags

1106
01:02:50,280 --> 01:02:55,120
Speaker 4: and also head YouTube at Joseph Scott Morgan and you

1107
01:02:55,200 --> 01:02:57,160
Speaker 4: will find body Bags there as well.

1108
01:02:58,040 --> 01:03:01,680
Speaker 3: So it's fantastic and keep it here. We have a

1109
01:03:01,800 --> 01:03:03,520
Speaker 3: lot more to dig into.

1110
01:03:04,840 --> 01:03:05,400
Speaker 4: Till next time.

1111
01:03:05,520 --> 01:03:06,160
Speaker 3: Joseph, thank you.

1112
01:03:18,560 --> 01:03:21,240
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime tonight and iHeart Radio. We're

1113
01:03:21,280 --> 01:03:24,520
Speaker 2: talking true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here

1114
01:03:24,560 --> 01:03:29,480
Speaker 2: with Courtney Armstrong. Yay, court and of course body move in.

1115
01:03:31,400 --> 01:03:36,400
Speaker 2: Yes you are full yay all the time of my

1116
01:03:36,560 --> 01:03:37,960
Speaker 2: little cutie, A little.

1117
01:03:41,400 --> 01:03:42,240
Speaker 3: Body move in.

1118
01:03:47,600 --> 01:03:52,920
Speaker 4: I'm still waiting for my prize for guessing converts ridiculous reactions.

1119
01:03:53,320 --> 01:03:56,760
Speaker 2: We were just DoD I win. What could your prize be?

1120
01:03:57,120 --> 01:03:59,160
Speaker 2: In fact, well, I know what your prize you wanted

1121
01:03:59,240 --> 01:04:02,200
Speaker 2: to be. Probably would like some cheese and some booze,

1122
01:04:02,320 --> 01:04:05,840
Speaker 2: because our little love has given up a lot of

1123
01:04:05,880 --> 01:04:06,760
Speaker 2: things for this lens.

1124
01:04:06,800 --> 01:04:09,720
Speaker 3: How are you holding up? You know better than I thought.

1125
01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:14,400
Speaker 3: I mean, I was like day one is always the hardest, right.

1126
01:04:14,920 --> 01:04:16,840
Speaker 2: I was even struggling day one and I was like

1127
01:04:16,960 --> 01:04:19,360
Speaker 2: I was debating between booze and sprite, and I was like,

1128
01:04:19,840 --> 01:04:22,000
Speaker 2: I can't do this, Sprite, I I I live on it.

1129
01:04:22,080 --> 01:04:24,320
Speaker 3: At this point, that's what you used to do. You're

1130
01:04:24,320 --> 01:04:25,640
Speaker 3: supposed to give up the thing you love them.

1131
01:04:26,360 --> 01:04:31,000
Speaker 4: I knows a lot about me because I did.

1132
01:04:33,760 --> 01:04:38,800
Speaker 3: Just like gave up cheese, right, Yeah, and it doesn't

1133
01:04:38,840 --> 01:04:41,800
Speaker 3: sound like a big deal. Maybe, but no, I love cheese.

1134
01:04:41,840 --> 01:04:46,240
Speaker 3: I eat today. Yeah, so I eat the Wisconsin extra sharp.

1135
01:04:47,560 --> 01:04:56,320
Speaker 3: Oh no, cheese conversations. Don't get me started on the pimento. O.

1136
01:04:57,440 --> 01:05:02,160
Speaker 5: God, that was for the weighted best.

1137
01:05:02,280 --> 01:05:03,600
Speaker 10: Like we've gone through our errors.

1138
01:05:04,040 --> 01:05:06,320
Speaker 3: Wait, inst is coming right back out again.

1139
01:05:06,320 --> 01:05:09,280
Speaker 2: I've had a little bit of a shoulder thing, but boy,

1140
01:05:09,400 --> 01:05:11,600
Speaker 2: that waited vest Maybe why I have it?

1141
01:05:11,920 --> 01:05:13,000
Speaker 3: I got to bring it back out.

1142
01:05:12,920 --> 01:05:17,080
Speaker 2: Again starting tomorrow tomorrow, a new day, new day tomorrow.

1143
01:05:17,120 --> 01:05:19,960
Speaker 2: I should have added that to my lent. Let's go

1144
01:05:20,040 --> 01:05:21,919
Speaker 2: to a talk back and see what they say.

1145
01:05:23,040 --> 01:05:23,160
Speaker 5: Hi.

1146
01:05:23,280 --> 01:05:25,160
Speaker 7: All, this is Aubrey from Ottawa, Canada.

1147
01:05:25,560 --> 01:05:26,560
Speaker 6: This is my first talkback.

1148
01:05:26,720 --> 01:05:29,040
Speaker 7: I'm a little bit nervous, but he was talking about

1149
01:05:29,040 --> 01:05:32,480
Speaker 7: Epstein and how he's likely a spy or some foreign

1150
01:05:32,600 --> 01:05:34,760
Speaker 7: asset and this totally tracks for me.

1151
01:05:34,840 --> 01:05:36,200
Speaker 3: I totally think this makes sense.

1152
01:05:36,400 --> 01:05:38,560
Speaker 7: I've thought it for a long time, wondering if you

1153
01:05:38,640 --> 01:05:41,240
Speaker 7: think like I do that he must have gotten himself

1154
01:05:41,240 --> 01:05:44,200
Speaker 7: in trouble in some foreign government somewhere and that's how

1155
01:05:44,240 --> 01:05:45,840
Speaker 7: it all started. And I'm curious if you have any

1156
01:05:45,840 --> 01:05:47,960
Speaker 7: ideas of where when anything.

1157
01:05:48,040 --> 01:05:50,680
Speaker 3: Love y'all, that's a good question.

1158
01:05:50,960 --> 01:05:57,200
Speaker 4: So how Aubrey, you're bros steal Come on, yeah, that

1159
01:05:57,360 --> 01:06:00,240
Speaker 4: was you have a great talkback voice him.

1160
01:06:00,280 --> 01:06:03,640
Speaker 3: Come in, keep them coming. So do you guys think

1161
01:06:03,720 --> 01:06:05,800
Speaker 3: that he got in trouble with the foreign government and

1162
01:06:05,960 --> 01:06:10,280
Speaker 3: that's maybe maybe allegedly why he's the spy or did

1163
01:06:10,520 --> 01:06:11,480
Speaker 3: is that why he was killed?

1164
01:06:12,280 --> 01:06:15,200
Speaker 4: All right, So here's a little bit of information that

1165
01:06:15,360 --> 01:06:17,440
Speaker 4: we have and then I think we go from there.

1166
01:06:17,520 --> 01:06:23,040
Speaker 3: Maybe sobering Courtney just got really fun in my head

1167
01:06:23,360 --> 01:06:25,600
Speaker 3: and there she goes. All right, court bring it in

1168
01:06:25,680 --> 01:06:28,040
Speaker 3: with the facts. Come on, okay.

1169
01:06:28,320 --> 01:06:34,760
Speaker 4: So during alex Acosta's vetting for Labor secretary, and again

1170
01:06:34,880 --> 01:06:36,960
Speaker 4: he's the one who did the quote sweetheart deal for

1171
01:06:37,040 --> 01:06:39,680
Speaker 4: Jeffrey Epstein back in two thousand and eight, So during

1172
01:06:39,920 --> 01:06:44,840
Speaker 4: his vetting for Labor secretary, he allegedly told President Donald

1173
01:06:44,920 --> 01:06:49,080
Speaker 4: Trump's transition officials that he had been told to quote

1174
01:06:49,320 --> 01:06:53,920
Speaker 4: back off the Jeffrey Epstein case, saying that Jeffrey Epstein

1175
01:06:54,160 --> 01:06:56,400
Speaker 4: quote again, belonged to intelligence.

1176
01:06:57,320 --> 01:06:59,200
Speaker 3: So allegedly that happened.

1177
01:06:59,360 --> 01:07:03,320
Speaker 4: However, a Costa then denied ever saying or believing that

1178
01:07:03,440 --> 01:07:06,880
Speaker 4: to be true. In his interview with the House Oversight Committee.

1179
01:07:08,120 --> 01:07:12,720
Speaker 4: One other thing is a confidential FBI informant claimed that

1180
01:07:12,840 --> 01:07:17,720
Speaker 4: Jeffrey Epstein was operating as an agent for Israeli intelligence

1181
01:07:17,880 --> 01:07:22,000
Speaker 4: the MASAD, citing phone calls between Epstein and his attorney

1182
01:07:22,240 --> 01:07:27,479
Speaker 4: Alan Dershowitz, who allegedly relayed that Epstein belonged to both

1183
01:07:27,520 --> 01:07:30,760
Speaker 4: the US and Allied intelligence services.

1184
01:07:31,240 --> 01:07:33,600
Speaker 3: That's what I believe, one hundred percent, that's what I believe.

1185
01:07:33,600 --> 01:07:36,640
Speaker 2: I'm not convinced he wasn't also playing for Putin as

1186
01:07:36,680 --> 01:07:40,160
Speaker 2: well well, that too, I think, yeah, all sides. I

1187
01:07:40,240 --> 01:07:43,880
Speaker 2: think what's unique to Epstein potentially is a that he

1188
01:07:44,120 --> 01:07:47,000
Speaker 2: was he was literally just playing everyone. So this is

1189
01:07:47,040 --> 01:07:49,760
Speaker 2: somebody who was compromised on every level if in fact

1190
01:07:49,800 --> 01:07:52,320
Speaker 2: he was working for the Masad or you know, some

1191
01:07:52,520 --> 01:07:54,960
Speaker 2: have said even a CIA. Right, we know he was

1192
01:07:55,040 --> 01:07:59,360
Speaker 2: trading secrets with Prince Andrew, the dumb, dumb who was

1193
01:07:59,600 --> 01:08:02,400
Speaker 2: That's what he getting arrested for is because he was

1194
01:08:02,440 --> 01:08:08,000
Speaker 2: getting you know, stock information and financial information. This is

1195
01:08:08,040 --> 01:08:10,840
Speaker 2: a guy that was motivated solely by money, and he

1196
01:08:11,040 --> 01:08:14,560
Speaker 2: was making money for all kinds of very fancy people.

1197
01:08:14,760 --> 01:08:16,080
Speaker 3: Look at the people that have come down.

1198
01:08:16,160 --> 01:08:20,720
Speaker 2: Now we're seeing major pal are falling the crem of

1199
01:08:20,760 --> 01:08:23,799
Speaker 2: the crem throughout the world. How did this guy operate

1200
01:08:23,960 --> 01:08:26,280
Speaker 2: on such a high level. It will never be known

1201
01:08:26,360 --> 01:08:31,320
Speaker 2: because he seems so ordinary. Really, however, I think he

1202
01:08:31,600 --> 01:08:35,000
Speaker 2: was not just with Israel or any of the I

1203
01:08:35,040 --> 01:08:37,720
Speaker 2: think it's all of the above, frankly, and it's all

1204
01:08:37,720 --> 01:08:40,679
Speaker 2: about oil, and I think laundering.

1205
01:08:40,800 --> 01:08:41,719
Speaker 3: It's money laundering.

1206
01:08:42,040 --> 01:08:45,120
Speaker 2: And whoever is printing the dollars at the bank is

1207
01:08:45,240 --> 01:08:48,479
Speaker 2: the person that Jeffrey Epstein is closest too. And I

1208
01:08:48,560 --> 01:08:51,320
Speaker 2: think the reality is again like there is a club

1209
01:08:52,000 --> 01:08:55,880
Speaker 2: that none of us are in unfortunately, that are making

1210
01:08:55,920 --> 01:08:58,519
Speaker 2: all the rules. And Jeffrey Epstein was kind of like

1211
01:08:58,640 --> 01:08:59,440
Speaker 2: the fixer.

1212
01:08:59,760 --> 01:09:04,719
Speaker 3: Didn't Gilleen Maxwell's dad also like have connections with Massad

1213
01:09:05,880 --> 01:09:09,919
Speaker 3: allegedly he was also allegedly a dirty Massad. So Gilaine

1214
01:09:09,960 --> 01:09:10,439
Speaker 3: had a father.

1215
01:09:11,520 --> 01:09:15,479
Speaker 2: The father was kind of like imagine like the Murdochs here,

1216
01:09:15,640 --> 01:09:19,920
Speaker 2: like he was a huge medium mogul in the UK,

1217
01:09:20,680 --> 01:09:23,040
Speaker 2: loaded beyond words, you know, known to.

1218
01:09:23,080 --> 01:09:27,280
Speaker 3: Be at c on his big boat, the c Thing sea.

1219
01:09:27,400 --> 01:09:29,960
Speaker 2: When I say that, there is something about the water,

1220
01:09:30,400 --> 01:09:32,599
Speaker 2: just as that's a clue that we have to all

1221
01:09:32,720 --> 01:09:36,280
Speaker 2: be tracking the international waters is going to be a

1222
01:09:36,400 --> 01:09:39,920
Speaker 2: key factor in this case. Not getting a lot of traction,

1223
01:09:40,040 --> 01:09:43,479
Speaker 2: but it's a through line. So Gilaine's dad, this big

1224
01:09:43,600 --> 01:09:48,760
Speaker 2: fancy socialite. Also he died under mysterious circumstances and was

1225
01:09:48,760 --> 01:09:51,439
Speaker 2: always alleged to also have been where they're working for

1226
01:09:51,560 --> 01:09:54,880
Speaker 2: massade or working as a double agent. And either he

1227
01:09:55,080 --> 01:09:58,360
Speaker 2: was kicked off that boat and killed or he killed himself,

1228
01:09:59,160 --> 01:10:00,519
Speaker 2: and so it's a traged accident.

1229
01:10:01,120 --> 01:10:04,839
Speaker 3: I kind of want to go through the evidence basically

1230
01:10:05,400 --> 01:10:07,640
Speaker 3: just because this isn't confirmed, right, but this is the

1231
01:10:07,720 --> 01:10:11,680
Speaker 3: evidence that he has these allegates. Robert Maxwell, Gillane Maxwell's

1232
01:10:11,800 --> 01:10:16,720
Speaker 3: the other Okay, he allegedly used his contacts with Czechoslovakian

1233
01:10:16,800 --> 01:10:21,200
Speaker 3: Communist leaders to facilitate arms shipments to Israel during the

1234
01:10:21,320 --> 01:10:25,800
Speaker 3: nineteen forty eight Arab Israeli War, which basically created Israel, right,

1235
01:10:26,400 --> 01:10:27,320
Speaker 3: ding ding ding ding ding.

1236
01:10:27,479 --> 01:10:30,479
Speaker 2: So another big key factor through all things, Epstein, We're

1237
01:10:30,479 --> 01:10:31,599
Speaker 2: hearing a lot about the trafficking.

1238
01:10:31,720 --> 01:10:35,400
Speaker 3: Not to undermine that, keep that where it is arms dealing.

1239
01:10:36,479 --> 01:10:41,839
Speaker 2: Arms dealing, right, the business of dealing arms is huge,

1240
01:10:42,200 --> 01:10:46,439
Speaker 2: in massive and yes Gilan's Maxwell's father was in the

1241
01:10:46,520 --> 01:10:49,560
Speaker 2: midst of it, and I'm not convinced. Father rather, and

1242
01:10:49,600 --> 01:10:52,840
Speaker 2: I'm not convinced Epstein wasn't playing all sides with that

1243
01:10:52,920 --> 01:10:53,519
Speaker 2: as well.

1244
01:10:53,840 --> 01:10:59,519
Speaker 3: Right, And so it's rumored right that basically Epstein, Jeffrey Epstein,

1245
01:10:59,600 --> 01:11:03,760
Speaker 3: hooked up with Gilain Maxwell because of the connections her

1246
01:11:03,880 --> 01:11:07,759
Speaker 3: father had, right, Like that was absolutely the ties that bind,

1247
01:11:07,880 --> 01:11:11,160
Speaker 3: so to speak. So the Sudor died, she was killed,

1248
01:11:11,320 --> 01:11:12,400
Speaker 3: very lable by the way.

1249
01:11:13,000 --> 01:11:16,000
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And don't forget the dad, gileainn Maxwell's father.

1250
01:11:16,400 --> 01:11:19,000
Speaker 3: He died penniless. It turned out he was a huge fraud.

1251
01:11:19,520 --> 01:11:20,720
Speaker 3: Think Bernie made off.

1252
01:11:20,800 --> 01:11:24,760
Speaker 2: He was like stealing people's pensions funds and made all

1253
01:11:24,800 --> 01:11:27,360
Speaker 2: of his money that was actually all a fraud, and

1254
01:11:27,479 --> 01:11:30,040
Speaker 2: that all came to light after his death. So when

1255
01:11:30,080 --> 01:11:32,920
Speaker 2: Gilean came to the US, kind of washed up and

1256
01:11:33,000 --> 01:11:36,360
Speaker 2: embarrassed because her dad, who she admired and loved so

1257
01:11:36,520 --> 01:11:39,479
Speaker 2: dearly and was such a big presence in the UK.

1258
01:11:40,000 --> 01:11:43,519
Speaker 2: He owned newspapers and was ultimately controlling the narrative also

1259
01:11:44,040 --> 01:11:47,200
Speaker 2: in the media in the UK. Once he died, big

1260
01:11:47,320 --> 01:11:49,519
Speaker 2: fall from grace. She had to kind of go to

1261
01:11:49,600 --> 01:11:52,880
Speaker 2: the US a little bit, kind of like orphan Annie

1262
01:11:53,120 --> 01:11:55,759
Speaker 2: starting over again because she had sort of been kicked

1263
01:11:55,800 --> 01:11:59,519
Speaker 2: out of the Socialite club in the UK although she

1264
01:11:59,640 --> 01:12:02,719
Speaker 2: had all the contacts exactly with the royal family.

1265
01:12:03,160 --> 01:12:04,879
Speaker 3: She had all those ties, which.

1266
01:12:04,840 --> 01:12:07,920
Speaker 4: You know, I mean honestly, Jeffrey Epstein is just like

1267
01:12:08,120 --> 01:12:09,200
Speaker 4: real life gats Me.

1268
01:12:09,400 --> 01:12:10,160
Speaker 3: Fascinating to me.

1269
01:12:10,840 --> 01:12:14,240
Speaker 4: You know, that's exactly you get Chantrey and Gillian Maxwell

1270
01:12:14,360 --> 01:12:22,000
Speaker 4: is perfect. Also on Robert Maxwell, Gillian's father, and to

1271
01:12:22,080 --> 01:12:25,000
Speaker 4: reiterate with Body said, it's not one hundred percent confirmed,

1272
01:12:25,200 --> 01:12:31,840
Speaker 4: but these are widely talked about, so Robert Maxwell's He's

1273
01:12:31,960 --> 01:12:37,120
Speaker 4: also accused of distributing a bugged version of a software

1274
01:12:37,200 --> 01:12:42,560
Speaker 4: called Promise to global governments and to nuclear labs, and

1275
01:12:42,680 --> 01:12:48,040
Speaker 4: that yeah, enabled espionage for Israel yep and this was

1276
01:12:48,080 --> 01:12:52,599
Speaker 4: allegedly with help from US Senator John Tower. He also

1277
01:12:52,960 --> 01:12:57,520
Speaker 4: is suspected, which is interesting to have ties to M sixteen,

1278
01:12:57,680 --> 01:13:02,160
Speaker 4: which is like the UK's CIA, also to the KGB.

1279
01:13:02,640 --> 01:13:06,960
Speaker 4: There's a putin body and the Masade and former Israeli

1280
01:13:07,040 --> 01:13:12,760
Speaker 4: intelligence operative already Ben Manash excuse me, claimed that Maxwell

1281
01:13:12,960 --> 01:13:21,479
Speaker 4: helped expose Mordecai Vanunu, which led to the kidnapping and

1282
01:13:21,560 --> 01:13:22,760
Speaker 4: eighteen year imprisonment.

1283
01:13:24,040 --> 01:13:28,000
Speaker 2: Keep in mind all of these associations are all happening

1284
01:13:28,320 --> 01:13:33,559
Speaker 2: while gathering intelligence and gathering blackmail. So you know, Jeffrey

1285
01:13:33,560 --> 01:13:37,160
Speaker 2: Epstein's big secret ingredient was that he had cameras everywhere

1286
01:13:37,200 --> 01:13:39,559
Speaker 2: and he was able to put people in compromising positions.

1287
01:13:40,080 --> 01:13:43,360
Speaker 2: I don't know that anybody, even in the current administration,

1288
01:13:43,560 --> 01:13:47,160
Speaker 2: hasn't had compromising positions put against them based on their

1289
01:13:47,200 --> 01:13:50,559
Speaker 2: relationship with Epstein. So in this case, the biggest fear

1290
01:13:50,600 --> 01:13:53,760
Speaker 2: would be that Jeffrey Epstein was working all sides and

1291
01:13:53,960 --> 01:13:58,960
Speaker 2: creating a financial pipeline similar to money laundering, similar to

1292
01:13:59,120 --> 01:14:03,000
Speaker 2: a slaved similar to anything that was not just within

1293
01:14:03,080 --> 01:14:05,920
Speaker 2: the US with not just on some Facocca island. This

1294
01:14:06,160 --> 01:14:09,400
Speaker 2: was a worldwide operation. There's a reason why he's in

1295
01:14:09,439 --> 01:14:13,120
Speaker 2: Saudi Arabia and all these shipping conversations are happening. There

1296
01:14:13,240 --> 01:14:15,800
Speaker 2: is real conversation coming out of these files that he

1297
01:14:15,960 --> 01:14:21,080
Speaker 2: was shipping humans humans, literally shipping human beings, and that

1298
01:14:21,200 --> 01:14:25,040
Speaker 2: this was just part of the business, and shipping children

1299
01:14:25,320 --> 01:14:29,479
Speaker 2: that didn't have birth certificates. Purpose we don't know, but

1300
01:14:29,800 --> 01:14:31,960
Speaker 2: this is sort of the allegation, and you have to

1301
01:14:32,000 --> 01:14:35,360
Speaker 2: ask yourself, who the hell is buying humans? Where did

1302
01:14:35,439 --> 01:14:39,320
Speaker 2: this backstory come from and the answer is, I don't know,

1303
01:14:39,640 --> 01:14:43,200
Speaker 2: but it seems like it's definitely there and we're kind

1304
01:14:43,200 --> 01:14:46,760
Speaker 2: of getting through it. But I think it's going to

1305
01:14:46,840 --> 01:14:49,599
Speaker 2: be very obvious. I don't know that anybody's even disagreeing

1306
01:14:49,680 --> 01:14:52,800
Speaker 2: at this point that Epstein was kind of a little

1307
01:14:52,800 --> 01:14:56,800
Speaker 2: bit working for everyone and had had the videotapes to

1308
01:14:56,920 --> 01:15:02,559
Speaker 2: prove it, and allegedly apparently was growing trumpet flowers, which

1309
01:15:03,200 --> 01:15:06,759
Speaker 2: make you like lose your memory and control of your body.

1310
01:15:06,840 --> 01:15:08,240
Speaker 3: It's like you get amnesia.

1311
01:15:08,880 --> 01:15:12,160
Speaker 2: Yes, on his property. It's just like the movie And

1312
01:15:12,680 --> 01:15:15,519
Speaker 2: twice we've talked about this movie Blink twice. You have

1313
01:15:15,640 --> 01:15:18,400
Speaker 2: to watch it in the movie. This is like in

1314
01:15:18,479 --> 01:15:23,160
Speaker 2: the movie Zoe Kravitz directed it. Oh yeah, So you

1315
01:15:23,240 --> 01:15:24,679
Speaker 2: just kind to check it out because it's like maybe

1316
01:15:24,720 --> 01:15:26,800
Speaker 2: there's a little sideways at the end, but it's like

1317
01:15:27,000 --> 01:15:30,920
Speaker 2: so on the nose to the Epstein story. Apparently, but

1318
01:15:31,320 --> 01:15:34,320
Speaker 2: he apparently was growing something called a trumpet flower. There's

1319
01:15:34,360 --> 01:15:38,920
Speaker 2: photographs of it also in the files. There's conversations about him,

1320
01:15:39,040 --> 01:15:42,320
Speaker 2: like asking about the trumpet flowers, and apparently they are

1321
01:15:42,880 --> 01:15:45,760
Speaker 2: something that when you smell them, the pollen of it

1322
01:15:46,080 --> 01:15:49,320
Speaker 2: makes you almost like you get drugged, you get amnesia,

1323
01:15:49,439 --> 01:15:52,519
Speaker 2: you lose your ability to control your body.

1324
01:15:53,280 --> 01:15:55,599
Speaker 3: So is this something that he would use on his victims.

1325
01:15:56,040 --> 01:15:58,519
Speaker 3: That's what the that's what we're that's what we're trying

1326
01:15:58,520 --> 01:15:59,120
Speaker 3: to figure out.

1327
01:15:59,600 --> 01:16:04,120
Speaker 4: Yes, So it seems like these Trumpet plans are sometimes

1328
01:16:04,160 --> 01:16:07,560
Speaker 4: referred to as zombie drug or devil's breath because it

1329
01:16:07,680 --> 01:16:11,679
Speaker 4: reportedly is it what the makes users compliant and raises

1330
01:16:11,760 --> 01:16:12,760
Speaker 4: their memories.

1331
01:16:12,560 --> 01:16:13,799
Speaker 3: And they raises their memories.

1332
01:16:13,880 --> 01:16:16,519
Speaker 2: And that's specifically in that movie Blink Twice, which I

1333
01:16:16,560 --> 01:16:18,920
Speaker 2: thought was a crazy detail. It's haunted me. I was

1334
01:16:18,960 --> 01:16:21,760
Speaker 2: always so grateful that it wasn't real. Turns out it's real.

1335
01:16:22,120 --> 01:16:25,080
Speaker 2: I read that today. I mean, so here this guy

1336
01:16:25,200 --> 01:16:27,960
Speaker 2: is growing flowers. By the way, the Zoro ranch that

1337
01:16:28,040 --> 01:16:30,320
Speaker 2: we had talked about, the location in New Mexico that

1338
01:16:30,479 --> 01:16:33,439
Speaker 2: the probe has now been reopened, also was.

1339
01:16:33,439 --> 01:16:34,559
Speaker 3: Reading today in the files.

1340
01:16:35,400 --> 01:16:39,920
Speaker 2: Unsurprising, I suppose, but disappointing that in twenty I think

1341
01:16:39,960 --> 01:16:41,960
Speaker 2: it was in twenty nineteen, Adam, you would know this

1342
01:16:42,120 --> 01:16:45,600
Speaker 2: in twenty nineteen that the state was really looking into it.

1343
01:16:45,680 --> 01:16:48,400
Speaker 2: New Mexico was giving it a real deep look because

1344
01:16:48,400 --> 01:16:52,240
Speaker 2: there had been serious allegations made, not just by Tina

1345
01:16:52,320 --> 01:16:56,040
Speaker 2: Farmer's sister, but also just in general by several complaints

1346
01:16:56,080 --> 01:17:00,160
Speaker 2: had been made to the state about abuse there, and

1347
01:17:00,280 --> 01:17:03,680
Speaker 2: then it was the DOJ and the Trump administration that

1348
01:17:03,760 --> 01:17:06,600
Speaker 2: asked them to please turn all files over to the

1349
01:17:06,680 --> 01:17:09,200
Speaker 2: federal government and they'll take it from there. And not

1350
01:17:09,320 --> 01:17:12,200
Speaker 2: a single call was made and no investigation was had.

1351
01:17:12,760 --> 01:17:18,240
Speaker 3: Wow, why shot up? Are you serious? Why are you serious?

1352
01:17:18,320 --> 01:17:20,760
Speaker 3: Right now? So they stopped on investigation and didn't go

1353
01:17:20,840 --> 01:17:21,479
Speaker 3: anywhere with it.

1354
01:17:21,680 --> 01:17:25,240
Speaker 2: It was a ceased investigation in writing, it's in the files,

1355
01:17:25,400 --> 01:17:28,080
Speaker 2: and they said to the state, please send us all

1356
01:17:28,120 --> 01:17:31,000
Speaker 2: of your findings. The federal government will take it from here.

1357
01:17:31,439 --> 01:17:35,200
Speaker 2: And the investigation never went anywhere, and they literally never

1358
01:17:35,880 --> 01:17:39,200
Speaker 2: went through the house were these allegations of abuse with

1359
01:17:39,280 --> 01:17:43,880
Speaker 2: young women had been made, allegedly allegedly allegedly, Adam, correct

1360
01:17:43,880 --> 01:17:45,320
Speaker 2: me if I'm wrong, Like, that's it's.

1361
01:17:45,360 --> 01:17:46,920
Speaker 3: In there, that's in the files.

1362
01:17:47,040 --> 01:17:47,240
Speaker 5: Yep.

1363
01:17:47,439 --> 01:17:47,639
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1364
01:17:48,640 --> 01:17:52,160
Speaker 4: Well, we talked about how odd it was when the

1365
01:17:52,479 --> 01:17:55,200
Speaker 4: officials had come to the ranch, spoken to the guy

1366
01:17:55,240 --> 01:17:59,040
Speaker 4: who was sort of running managing things, who received a

1367
01:17:59,080 --> 01:18:04,040
Speaker 4: phone call during the questioning and then just told the official, sorry,

1368
01:18:04,320 --> 01:18:06,920
Speaker 4: can't you know, can't keep talking about this and then

1369
01:18:07,680 --> 01:18:09,519
Speaker 4: yeah it was at the end that was it.

1370
01:18:10,160 --> 01:18:12,160
Speaker 3: Just like that's how all investigations go.

1371
01:18:12,400 --> 01:18:14,320
Speaker 4: I was gonna say, if I if I just told something,

1372
01:18:14,360 --> 01:18:15,960
Speaker 4: imagine you don't feel like it right now?

1373
01:18:16,680 --> 01:18:17,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, it doesn't work for me.

1374
01:18:18,479 --> 01:18:20,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, we can bang down the door of somebody, uh

1375
01:18:21,280 --> 01:18:24,679
Speaker 2: who is hiding from ice. We'll break that door down.

1376
01:18:24,840 --> 01:18:26,960
Speaker 2: But in this case, when there were multiple reports of

1377
01:18:27,520 --> 01:18:31,200
Speaker 2: really violent abuse happening at that location and potentially two

1378
01:18:31,360 --> 01:18:35,759
Speaker 2: girls buried at that location, there has not been a single,

1379
01:18:36,439 --> 01:18:39,240
Speaker 2: a single investigation of the home.

1380
01:18:40,920 --> 01:18:43,800
Speaker 3: Okay, well, stick around, we've got more to dig into.

1381
01:18:43,920 --> 01:18:46,080
Speaker 3: We're gonna change things up. I bet we've got more

1382
01:18:46,160 --> 01:18:49,120
Speaker 3: talkbacks to get into the good, the bad, and the funny.

1383
01:18:49,320 --> 01:19:01,840
Speaker 2: Keep it rare to Cransity. Welcome back to true Crime

1384
01:19:01,880 --> 01:19:05,320
Speaker 2: tonight and iHeartRadio. We've been talking true crime all the time.

1385
01:19:05,600 --> 01:19:07,880
Speaker 2: We are so in the final stretch already. I don't

1386
01:19:07,880 --> 01:19:10,599
Speaker 2: know how that happened. How great is it having Joseph here?

1387
01:19:11,080 --> 01:19:13,360
Speaker 2: I miss him a fresh ready.

1388
01:19:13,760 --> 01:19:16,160
Speaker 4: I know it's like a color of food, like even

1389
01:19:16,200 --> 01:19:18,640
Speaker 4: though I know we're talking about forensics, but he.

1390
01:19:19,040 --> 01:19:23,200
Speaker 3: Makes it so palatable and understandable and you know, respectful too.

1391
01:19:23,360 --> 01:19:25,240
Speaker 3: You know it's so true because it's very scientific.

1392
01:19:25,479 --> 01:19:25,640
Speaker 7: You know.

1393
01:19:26,240 --> 01:19:27,479
Speaker 3: I love Joseph.

1394
01:19:27,640 --> 01:19:30,080
Speaker 2: I just I can't say enough great things about his

1395
01:19:30,200 --> 01:19:32,960
Speaker 2: big brain. And we've worked together for so so long now,

1396
01:19:33,040 --> 01:19:36,200
Speaker 2: I think it's been almost a decade almost. I feel

1397
01:19:36,200 --> 01:19:38,920
Speaker 2: like every time I talked to him, it's always I'm

1398
01:19:38,920 --> 01:19:40,000
Speaker 2: always just so impressed.

1399
01:19:40,200 --> 01:19:43,360
Speaker 3: So more of that to come. Thank you, Joseph Scott

1400
01:19:43,439 --> 01:19:46,439
Speaker 3: Morgan for being with us. Let's go to a talk back. Hi.

1401
01:19:46,640 --> 01:19:52,360
Speaker 11: This is keiming Kintusy and just contacting you all because

1402
01:19:52,439 --> 01:19:55,559
Speaker 11: I'm og and haven't following you all since the pipe

1403
01:19:55,600 --> 01:20:00,799
Speaker 11: Tin massacre. I actually was at the place Billy Wagner

1404
01:20:01,400 --> 01:20:05,600
Speaker 11: arrested out which got me into true crime, and I

1405
01:20:05,720 --> 01:20:08,479
Speaker 11: think that that means I definitely qualify for some swag.

1406
01:20:08,960 --> 01:20:14,719
Speaker 2: I think so, I think it does, right, WHOA Jesus,

1407
01:20:15,800 --> 01:20:19,280
Speaker 2: we need to talk because we're just figuring out the

1408
01:20:19,439 --> 01:20:23,799
Speaker 2: final season of the piked In Massacre. We've been waiting

1409
01:20:23,960 --> 01:20:29,679
Speaker 2: for Billy Wagner's who's the dad in this particular tragedy

1410
01:20:30,240 --> 01:20:34,240
Speaker 2: whose trial is still to come. So apparently our caller

1411
01:20:34,439 --> 01:20:38,599
Speaker 2: was right there front and center during this arrest, and yes,

1412
01:20:40,120 --> 01:20:41,559
Speaker 2: we need to pick her by the way, she could

1413
01:20:41,560 --> 01:20:42,519
Speaker 2: be one of the interviews.

1414
01:20:42,560 --> 01:20:46,320
Speaker 3: She was her first the count. No, it's amazing.

1415
01:20:47,080 --> 01:20:49,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll have to Yeah, Kim, I have to come

1416
01:20:49,520 --> 01:20:52,800
Speaker 2: on the podcast reach out to her. You know, I

1417
01:20:52,880 --> 01:20:55,960
Speaker 2: will say that too with Kim calling just about the

1418
01:20:56,000 --> 01:20:58,720
Speaker 2: Pikedon massacre because Courtney and we've been discussing it a

1419
01:20:58,720 --> 01:21:02,280
Speaker 2: little bit. We're sort of digging into the world, you know,

1420
01:21:02,360 --> 01:21:05,840
Speaker 2: we have Whitney with us and just kind of just

1421
01:21:05,960 --> 01:21:09,560
Speaker 2: kind of figuring out how to really I you know,

1422
01:21:09,680 --> 01:21:12,000
Speaker 2: on the one hand, it's the most tragic tale ever told.

1423
01:21:12,400 --> 01:21:14,760
Speaker 2: There still is one trial left, so we want to

1424
01:21:14,800 --> 01:21:18,639
Speaker 2: make sure that we finish it correctly. But we're sort

1425
01:21:18,640 --> 01:21:22,639
Speaker 2: of still chasing those trial dates. But needless to say, yes,

1426
01:21:22,720 --> 01:21:25,920
Speaker 2: the fact that you were there gets you some swag, baby.

1427
01:21:26,439 --> 01:21:28,719
Speaker 4: And probably a phone call to ask about an interview,

1428
01:21:29,040 --> 01:21:32,839
Speaker 4: like are you going to the veterinary because Billy Wagner,

1429
01:21:32,960 --> 01:21:37,519
Speaker 4: the dad, he was not in Ohio, he was in Lexington, Kentucky.

1430
01:21:39,520 --> 01:21:40,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, and going to.

1431
01:21:42,000 --> 01:21:44,760
Speaker 2: Goodness, I guess the greatest things about Lexington, Kentucky. I

1432
01:21:44,880 --> 01:21:47,559
Speaker 2: had just been reading that's one of the most up

1433
01:21:47,600 --> 01:21:50,599
Speaker 2: and coming cities, if not the most up and coming city.

1434
01:21:50,800 --> 01:21:54,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, and in terms of it being very livable, I've

1435
01:21:54,080 --> 01:21:54,519
Speaker 3: never been.

1436
01:21:55,200 --> 01:21:58,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've never been, nor have I seen in person

1437
01:21:58,680 --> 01:22:00,920
Speaker 2: Billy Wagner. He's never been in the courtroom and I've

1438
01:22:01,000 --> 01:22:04,519
Speaker 2: been there, and he's really big, and I feel like

1439
01:22:04,600 --> 01:22:08,639
Speaker 2: we've done so many interviews about him grinding his teeth. Yeah,

1440
01:22:08,640 --> 01:22:11,240
Speaker 2: I feel like I know him and haunt my sleep sometimes,

1441
01:22:12,840 --> 01:22:14,840
Speaker 2: but we physically have never been in the same room.

1442
01:22:15,479 --> 01:22:16,000
Speaker 3: That's true.

1443
01:22:16,000 --> 01:22:20,280
Speaker 4: But I mean, it's hard to say nobody likes a person,

1444
01:22:21,040 --> 01:22:24,120
Speaker 4: but outside his mom it seemed like nobody liked him.

1445
01:22:24,720 --> 01:22:29,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, that one is Freddy pretty common denominator. There's many

1446
01:22:29,520 --> 01:22:33,240
Speaker 2: people's versions of what happened in Pie County that fateful night.

1447
01:22:34,040 --> 01:22:37,200
Speaker 2: All of them include Billy Wagner, Like, I've never heard

1448
01:22:37,320 --> 01:22:39,280
Speaker 2: him not being a part of the story. There's a

1449
01:22:39,360 --> 01:22:43,680
Speaker 2: thousand different tales in different versions. But Dad, and by

1450
01:22:43,720 --> 01:22:46,720
Speaker 2: the way, if you don't know this case, it's a

1451
01:22:46,920 --> 01:22:49,680
Speaker 2: it's a case that we did a podcast about. It's

1452
01:22:49,760 --> 01:22:52,080
Speaker 2: kind of the case that really started KT. It's the

1453
01:22:52,120 --> 01:22:56,920
Speaker 2: first thing we really worked on podcast. But yeah, exactly so,

1454
01:22:57,080 --> 01:22:59,400
Speaker 2: it's called the piked In Massacre. If you haven't listened

1455
01:22:59,439 --> 01:23:02,479
Speaker 2: to it, we hope that you would. It's our like

1456
01:23:02,720 --> 01:23:08,280
Speaker 2: OG you know, flagship project that we really love that

1457
01:23:08,600 --> 01:23:10,880
Speaker 2: place and care deeply.

1458
01:23:10,680 --> 01:23:11,400
Speaker 3: About this case.

1459
01:23:11,920 --> 01:23:13,800
Speaker 2: So yeah, that was back in like twenty eighteen or

1460
01:23:13,840 --> 01:23:17,320
Speaker 2: something or twenty nineteen, I believe. So we've done about

1461
01:23:17,400 --> 01:23:21,200
Speaker 2: fifty two episodes. Courtney is the voice of it, and

1462
01:23:22,240 --> 01:23:25,040
Speaker 2: you know we've been there many times, and we brought

1463
01:23:25,200 --> 01:23:29,280
Speaker 2: Whitney Galloway along with us back and she's working with

1464
01:23:29,439 --> 01:23:32,400
Speaker 2: us as well. And if you haven't listened to that,

1465
01:23:32,640 --> 01:23:35,759
Speaker 2: please do. Also Murder One I think is a podcast

1466
01:23:35,920 --> 01:23:39,280
Speaker 2: worth checking out, please do. And Idaho Massacre I think

1467
01:23:39,320 --> 01:23:43,719
Speaker 2: really holds up also if you're still kind of curious

1468
01:23:43,800 --> 01:23:47,560
Speaker 2: about those. And we were talking last night about the

1469
01:23:47,760 --> 01:23:51,599
Speaker 2: Shannon Brannigan case and that would be on a podcast

1470
01:23:51,680 --> 01:23:55,880
Speaker 2: called True Crimes with John and Diane with John and Deana.

1471
01:23:55,760 --> 01:23:57,000
Speaker 3: You can check that out as well.

1472
01:23:57,080 --> 01:23:59,240
Speaker 2: But we'll be covering that case I think as well

1473
01:23:59,320 --> 01:24:04,320
Speaker 2: for a bit. I know that was Aka Baladi.

1474
01:24:04,760 --> 01:24:09,080
Speaker 3: Her name is Deanna, but we call her Baodi. Body

1475
01:24:09,200 --> 01:24:11,519
Speaker 3: move in. So yeah, thank you for listening and for

1476
01:24:11,880 --> 01:24:13,200
Speaker 3: being with us from the beginning.

1477
01:24:13,760 --> 01:24:14,160
Speaker 5: I love it.

1478
01:24:14,640 --> 01:24:15,479
Speaker 3: It's good to another.

1479
01:24:16,760 --> 01:24:20,080
Speaker 12: It's Alicia from Mississippi. In response, to body about D

1480
01:24:20,200 --> 01:24:20,760
Speaker 12: and D dice.

1481
01:24:20,920 --> 01:24:22,960
Speaker 3: No, I currently do not make my own dice.

1482
01:24:23,040 --> 01:24:25,240
Speaker 12: I just build the sets for my players to play

1483
01:24:25,280 --> 01:24:28,719
Speaker 12: in and I paint the minies. But I am actually

1484
01:24:28,840 --> 01:24:31,000
Speaker 12: going to be getting into making my own dice soon.

1485
01:24:31,200 --> 01:24:33,320
Speaker 12: And when I do get around to that, I will

1486
01:24:33,360 --> 01:24:36,000
Speaker 12: gladly make you your own set and you can tell

1487
01:24:36,120 --> 01:24:38,560
Speaker 12: me what design and what colors you want us to be.

1488
01:24:39,320 --> 01:24:43,720
Speaker 2: Oh, first of all things, yesterday that this was just

1489
01:24:43,840 --> 01:24:47,360
Speaker 2: like immediate. I love the interaction. This is why I

1490
01:24:47,520 --> 01:24:49,840
Speaker 2: talk about and callings are so fun because it.

1491
01:24:50,000 --> 01:24:54,080
Speaker 3: Just it's so it's such a community. That's so exciting

1492
01:24:54,640 --> 01:24:57,160
Speaker 3: I do and I love dungeons. It's such a for me.

1493
01:24:57,280 --> 01:24:59,240
Speaker 3: It's so wholesome, and that's when That's one of the

1494
01:24:59,240 --> 01:25:01,280
Speaker 3: reasons I really love Stranger Things. I don't know if

1495
01:25:01,280 --> 01:25:03,800
Speaker 3: you guys want the show, but I love Stranger Things

1496
01:25:04,439 --> 01:25:06,479
Speaker 3: and they have the whole D and D element, and

1497
01:25:06,600 --> 01:25:09,519
Speaker 3: I it was such a wholesome time in my life

1498
01:25:09,800 --> 01:25:12,679
Speaker 3: when I was playing D and D. Anyway, I would

1499
01:25:12,840 --> 01:25:15,599
Speaker 3: love to see them. I'm excited for your minis. Are

1500
01:25:15,640 --> 01:25:18,640
Speaker 3: you three d resin printing them? I'm wondering I have

1501
01:25:18,680 --> 01:25:19,760
Speaker 3: another you have to call again?

1502
01:25:19,840 --> 01:25:24,439
Speaker 4: Let me know an angel going, Yeah, body, you should

1503
01:25:24,439 --> 01:25:26,080
Speaker 4: definitely put in your request for AI.

1504
01:25:26,400 --> 01:25:28,960
Speaker 3: I know I should. I don't play, but I do.

1505
01:25:29,479 --> 01:25:31,600
Speaker 3: I have what's a pair? I have a pair of

1506
01:25:31,960 --> 01:25:34,400
Speaker 3: ear rings that are D and D dice and they're

1507
01:25:34,479 --> 01:25:37,640
Speaker 3: like my favorite ear rings in the whole world. And

1508
01:25:38,000 --> 01:25:42,160
Speaker 3: so I love the collection, the collection shoul Yeah anyway,

1509
01:25:43,080 --> 01:25:45,200
Speaker 3: so nice compliment.

1510
01:25:45,240 --> 01:25:47,000
Speaker 5: And I love wind chimes in the back.

1511
01:25:47,400 --> 01:25:52,560
Speaker 3: I know, April, it's funny. Do wind chimes relax you?

1512
01:25:52,640 --> 01:25:53,720
Speaker 3: Where they do? They make?

1513
01:25:54,120 --> 01:25:59,080
Speaker 2: They? They turn me crazy hearing the chimes. I wonder

1514
01:25:59,120 --> 01:26:02,880
Speaker 2: if I would just be like noticing the chimes too much.

1515
01:26:03,240 --> 01:26:05,639
Speaker 10: I think I will, especially if it's a windy day

1516
01:26:05,720 --> 01:26:07,799
Speaker 10: and it's like they start to go a little too haywire.

1517
01:26:08,920 --> 01:26:15,680
Speaker 2: My add would be off to the races, ching ching chingingjing.

1518
01:26:15,920 --> 01:26:17,720
Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm sorry, what was there? A ding a

1519
01:26:17,800 --> 01:26:21,120
Speaker 3: dong ding a dong? But I do. I like the

1520
01:26:21,160 --> 01:26:21,560
Speaker 3: sound of it.

1521
01:26:21,640 --> 01:26:23,040
Speaker 2: But I always fear if I had it in my

1522
01:26:23,200 --> 01:26:26,400
Speaker 2: home that i'd i'd be distracted and confused all day.

1523
01:26:28,760 --> 01:26:30,599
Speaker 3: Well, maybe you would have the opposite effect.

1524
01:26:31,360 --> 01:26:33,280
Speaker 10: Maybe you calm you down like this.

1525
01:26:35,800 --> 01:26:37,439
Speaker 7: Hi, this is Alicia from New Jersey.

1526
01:26:37,560 --> 01:26:39,240
Speaker 9: I can't tell you, guys, every time I listened to you,

1527
01:26:39,360 --> 01:26:41,280
Speaker 9: I have like ten new thoughts I need.

1528
01:26:41,439 --> 01:26:42,559
Speaker 3: I feel like I need to share.

1529
01:26:42,640 --> 01:26:44,479
Speaker 9: But I listened to a lot of crime Chunky and

1530
01:26:44,600 --> 01:26:46,880
Speaker 9: it made me think, when you guys are talking about

1531
01:26:47,280 --> 01:26:50,880
Speaker 9: these cases, I'm wondering if you guys have an if

1532
01:26:50,960 --> 01:26:53,320
Speaker 9: I go missing folder at either a hard copy on

1533
01:26:53,400 --> 01:26:56,560
Speaker 9: your computer that you sent to someone with your passwords,

1534
01:26:56,720 --> 01:26:59,960
Speaker 9: maybe for banking phone, so that if something ever happened,

1535
01:27:00,280 --> 01:27:03,360
Speaker 9: they could go to and log into your banking or

1536
01:27:03,479 --> 01:27:06,080
Speaker 9: phone to see if there was anything SUSPICI is happening

1537
01:27:06,240 --> 01:27:08,880
Speaker 9: without waiting for the police. All right, thanks guys, Love.

1538
01:27:08,760 --> 01:27:11,720
Speaker 3: You, guys, Love you. I've seen these. I've seen these

1539
01:27:11,760 --> 01:27:13,800
Speaker 3: if I go missing, and even people even cut their

1540
01:27:13,840 --> 01:27:17,280
Speaker 3: hair and put like their hair like they put fingerprints

1541
01:27:17,320 --> 01:27:20,840
Speaker 3: in there. Yeah, a lot of people. I mean, I've

1542
01:27:21,439 --> 01:27:24,400
Speaker 3: I don't have one because I think it's a little

1543
01:27:26,040 --> 01:27:28,920
Speaker 3: morbid and in a way like like I think something

1544
01:27:28,960 --> 01:27:30,200
Speaker 3: bad is going to happen to me, so I'm going

1545
01:27:30,280 --> 01:27:32,679
Speaker 3: to make all this happen. But listen, it's not actually

1546
01:27:33,200 --> 01:27:35,680
Speaker 3: that kind of a will you know, isn't that I

1547
01:27:35,840 --> 01:27:38,200
Speaker 3: was going to have a try kind of but This

1548
01:27:38,400 --> 01:27:40,800
Speaker 3: is more like this is my DNA, this is my hair.

1549
01:27:41,000 --> 01:27:43,800
Speaker 3: This is like my teeth impression, you know what I mean?

1550
01:27:43,920 --> 01:27:48,439
Speaker 3: Like this, Yeah, yeah, it's it's the real deal. Really

1551
01:27:48,520 --> 01:27:50,599
Speaker 3: so much hair. At least I know the hair would

1552
01:27:50,800 --> 01:27:55,040
Speaker 3: never be a problem to find, like, yeah, the greatest

1553
01:27:55,080 --> 01:27:57,400
Speaker 3: hair your hair if you can, can you take it

1554
01:27:57,479 --> 01:28:00,640
Speaker 3: out of that braid? For goodness sake, can we just

1555
01:28:00,720 --> 01:28:03,120
Speaker 3: take the hair now, bullet out. Put me armstrong with

1556
01:28:03,200 --> 01:28:05,720
Speaker 3: this hair in the braid. This for my benefit of

1557
01:28:07,120 --> 01:28:09,120
Speaker 3: it's like this big reveal. She always like pulls it

1558
01:28:09,160 --> 01:28:12,400
Speaker 3: out of yeah, and then she pulls it.

1559
01:28:12,439 --> 01:28:14,519
Speaker 2: Up and like that updo, which I love, by the way,

1560
01:28:14,600 --> 01:28:16,479
Speaker 2: I love when you guys have a little top knot

1561
01:28:16,560 --> 01:28:18,400
Speaker 2: because my hair is like not long enough to get

1562
01:28:18,439 --> 01:28:19,599
Speaker 2: into the topknot anymore.

1563
01:28:20,760 --> 01:28:22,960
Speaker 3: So I happen to love a messy bun.

1564
01:28:23,280 --> 01:28:25,240
Speaker 2: And then she just pulls it out of the scrunsheet

1565
01:28:25,240 --> 01:28:27,920
Speaker 2: and it's like it looks like that nice job.

1566
01:28:28,439 --> 01:28:30,000
Speaker 3: Thank you for that. I appreciate that. Thank you. I

1567
01:28:30,040 --> 01:28:32,400
Speaker 3: feel much calmer now. It's better than a windshie. You're

1568
01:28:32,439 --> 01:28:37,439
Speaker 3: better than the windshie. Perfect. But you're going to say,

1569
01:28:37,439 --> 01:28:39,120
Speaker 3: I was just going to finish it up I don't

1570
01:28:39,200 --> 01:28:41,000
Speaker 3: have a book, but I mean, I'm kind of thinking

1571
01:28:41,080 --> 01:28:44,839
Speaker 3: maybe it might. Yes, but you know, they're really interesting.

1572
01:28:45,040 --> 01:28:47,519
Speaker 3: But yeah, they I think they sell them. I don't

1573
01:28:47,560 --> 01:28:51,360
Speaker 3: know who, but I think they is in corporate America cells.

1574
01:28:51,720 --> 01:28:54,200
Speaker 4: But even all the passwords and everything, I think that's

1575
01:28:54,240 --> 01:28:57,200
Speaker 4: really Yeah, even just to your mom or a family

1576
01:28:57,240 --> 01:28:59,320
Speaker 4: member that just has like all of your password.

1577
01:28:59,520 --> 01:29:01,840
Speaker 2: Help what I need this book because I can't remember

1578
01:29:01,880 --> 01:29:04,280
Speaker 2: a single password if my life depended on it. When

1579
01:29:04,320 --> 01:29:07,640
Speaker 2: you when I retrieved my password, You're like, what in

1580
01:29:07,720 --> 01:29:09,599
Speaker 2: the heck? Hawaii five? Oh?

1581
01:29:09,760 --> 01:29:10,800
Speaker 3: Like, where did that come from?

1582
01:29:11,760 --> 01:29:15,320
Speaker 2: I've never watched place I've never been, Like, no, it's

1583
01:29:15,439 --> 01:29:19,559
Speaker 2: like something but like I've never been to Hawaii. I have, actually,

1584
01:29:19,680 --> 01:29:22,760
Speaker 2: but it wasn't like that should be my password. I like,

1585
01:29:22,840 --> 01:29:24,280
Speaker 2: I trick myself and.

1586
01:29:24,400 --> 01:29:27,840
Speaker 3: Then, you know, can I give you a hint on

1587
01:29:28,360 --> 01:29:31,719
Speaker 3: what to do? Yes? You do actually take a song

1588
01:29:31,840 --> 01:29:36,960
Speaker 3: title or or lyrics of a song. Yeah, maybe even

1589
01:29:37,000 --> 01:29:43,960
Speaker 3: your favorite song. Okay, you can ring my break, Okay,

1590
01:29:44,000 --> 01:29:45,280
Speaker 3: you can about it a.

1591
01:29:45,320 --> 01:29:48,800
Speaker 2: Perfect frequency apparently that is a frequency of abundance is

1592
01:29:48,840 --> 01:29:51,080
Speaker 2: in that song. So yes, if I had, like you

1593
01:29:51,200 --> 01:29:54,200
Speaker 2: can ring my bell twenty twenty six. Oh, it sounds

1594
01:29:54,200 --> 01:29:55,040
Speaker 2: a little perverted.

1595
01:29:55,240 --> 01:29:58,720
Speaker 3: You just take like letters from each word, like maybe

1596
01:29:58,800 --> 01:30:01,880
Speaker 3: the first one, just the first letter. Why just the

1597
01:30:02,000 --> 01:30:05,639
Speaker 3: first letter the first letter? Yeah, right, and and then

1598
01:30:05,880 --> 01:30:08,280
Speaker 3: you always when you when you forget your password, you

1599
01:30:08,439 --> 01:30:10,479
Speaker 3: just sing the lyric and you know you are so

1600
01:30:11,320 --> 01:30:16,880
Speaker 3: that's call. Yeah, that's so good, okay, because I and

1601
01:30:17,080 --> 01:30:19,599
Speaker 3: change some of the things, like you can ring my bell,

1602
01:30:19,720 --> 01:30:22,639
Speaker 3: like say you used the oh, make it a zero

1603
01:30:23,840 --> 01:30:27,639
Speaker 3: instead of making zero or that. I always do that wrong.

1604
01:30:27,720 --> 01:30:30,680
Speaker 3: I always try to think myself in place of the

1605
01:30:31,160 --> 01:30:34,000
Speaker 3: and use like the at symbol, you know what I mean,

1606
01:30:34,160 --> 01:30:37,120
Speaker 3: Just like do different things. And just when you forget

1607
01:30:37,120 --> 01:30:38,680
Speaker 3: your password, all you have to do is sing and

1608
01:30:38,800 --> 01:30:42,519
Speaker 3: remember oh some of them add a couple of dollars

1609
01:30:42,560 --> 01:30:44,120
Speaker 3: signs because you're singing was money.

1610
01:30:44,240 --> 01:30:46,080
Speaker 10: I was going to say, you have to do symbols

1611
01:30:46,120 --> 01:30:49,080
Speaker 10: for a lot of them, I thought. And also they

1612
01:30:49,160 --> 01:30:51,400
Speaker 10: have have a link a lot of them say you

1613
01:30:51,479 --> 01:30:53,719
Speaker 10: have to have like ten lyrics.

1614
01:30:54,760 --> 01:31:01,439
Speaker 3: We missed this. He goes had some dollar signs at

1615
01:31:01,439 --> 01:31:07,479
Speaker 3: the end because you're singing was money. It's like a

1616
01:31:07,720 --> 01:31:14,679
Speaker 3: one lady lounge act appearing at the dressden.

1617
01:31:15,920 --> 01:31:16,759
Speaker 7: So good.

1618
01:31:19,280 --> 01:31:25,640
Speaker 3: Seventy's blushing so hard body by only audience. Dude, I

1619
01:31:25,800 --> 01:31:34,800
Speaker 3: caught it. Oh we have time for one more, one more,

1620
01:31:35,000 --> 01:31:35,439
Speaker 3: one more?

1621
01:31:35,640 --> 01:31:39,679
Speaker 13: Yeah, Hey, it's April and Texas. Audi's talking about missing

1622
01:31:39,800 --> 01:31:43,479
Speaker 13: pets and people trying to scam for rewards. I was

1623
01:31:43,560 --> 01:31:46,599
Speaker 13: scammed the other day and they said they have my pet,

1624
01:31:46,920 --> 01:31:50,120
Speaker 13: and I got all excited, and turns out they just

1625
01:31:50,240 --> 01:31:52,800
Speaker 13: wanted me to send them thirty five dollars and then

1626
01:31:52,880 --> 01:31:55,960
Speaker 13: they would bring you anyhow, it's a tough world out there.

1627
01:31:56,080 --> 01:32:01,400
Speaker 3: Let's show some love, April. And there's so day they

1628
01:32:01,680 --> 01:32:04,559
Speaker 3: we know what they do, you guys? Is they they

1629
01:32:04,920 --> 01:32:06,960
Speaker 3: know what your pet looks like from the missing person's

1630
01:32:07,120 --> 01:32:10,320
Speaker 3: or missing pet you know, poster that you've hung up

1631
01:32:10,360 --> 01:32:14,160
Speaker 3: somewhere or internet ad and they make an AI video

1632
01:32:15,240 --> 01:32:18,160
Speaker 3: real and they're like, I think I have your pet

1633
01:32:19,720 --> 01:32:22,000
Speaker 3: thirty five you know in this case thirty five dollars

1634
01:32:22,080 --> 01:32:24,639
Speaker 3: and all I need gas money to get to your house.

1635
01:32:24,760 --> 01:32:26,439
Speaker 3: So that's it, okay.

1636
01:32:26,479 --> 01:32:28,200
Speaker 10: I was about to ask, like, how who would give

1637
01:32:28,240 --> 01:32:30,560
Speaker 10: them money before you got the pet, because.

1638
01:32:30,280 --> 01:32:33,679
Speaker 2: They would totally give it money they use your pet,

1639
01:32:33,800 --> 01:32:35,280
Speaker 2: would most of you?

1640
01:32:35,400 --> 01:32:38,599
Speaker 10: Do you actually bring my pet over isn't it terrible?

1641
01:32:39,080 --> 01:32:40,679
Speaker 3: That's all that would have been awful.

1642
01:32:40,920 --> 01:32:44,479
Speaker 4: It is a tough world out there and collective, sorry

1643
01:32:45,720 --> 01:32:48,120
Speaker 4: are we able to get thirty six a in? That

1644
01:32:48,320 --> 01:32:51,040
Speaker 4: was one I called for last night, Taja Vito, and

1645
01:32:51,120 --> 01:32:53,720
Speaker 4: now I'm begging us not to play it.

1646
01:32:53,840 --> 01:32:57,160
Speaker 3: But here it goes, Oh my goodness, I'm leaning in.

1647
01:32:57,840 --> 01:33:02,280
Speaker 14: Hello. I wanted to say that Jephanie Bourtney and I

1648
01:33:02,360 --> 01:33:06,240
Speaker 14: think Taha is a real print on the show. He

1649
01:33:06,360 --> 01:33:10,799
Speaker 14: gets a great summary of the emotional impact and content

1650
01:33:11,040 --> 01:33:14,439
Speaker 14: of the show. And what a wonderful boy. Thank you

1651
01:33:14,800 --> 01:33:16,439
Speaker 14: love your Schellenius.

1652
01:33:16,880 --> 01:33:24,160
Speaker 3: Is the prince ild not agree with you more? He

1653
01:33:24,320 --> 01:33:24,679
Speaker 3: is great?

1654
01:33:24,680 --> 01:33:27,320
Speaker 2: By the way, I think it is so nice that

1655
01:33:28,000 --> 01:33:30,640
Speaker 2: all the gentlemen have gotten their calls in.

1656
01:33:32,680 --> 01:33:36,639
Speaker 10: Sam I say that much that she would even think

1657
01:33:36,720 --> 01:33:39,560
Speaker 10: I added to it, but I appreciate the shout.

1658
01:33:39,320 --> 01:33:44,559
Speaker 3: Out literally the show love.

1659
01:33:44,960 --> 01:33:47,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, he goes, Oh shoot, I hope you ladies are

1660
01:33:47,760 --> 01:33:52,280
Speaker 2: having the best day? Was I to marsh when I said, please,

1661
01:33:52,320 --> 01:33:52,960
Speaker 2: would you mind?

1662
01:33:54,640 --> 01:33:57,720
Speaker 3: I told you when I said I'm sorry that I'm late.

1663
01:33:57,880 --> 01:34:02,360
Speaker 3: Was I was I being rude with you? You apologized

1664
01:34:02,439 --> 01:34:05,639
Speaker 3: for being a second lads. I know that what he has,

1665
01:34:06,560 --> 01:34:09,679
Speaker 3: I can say with authority he has a million dollar smile.

1666
01:34:10,120 --> 01:34:11,439
Speaker 5: Oh, a.

1667
01:34:13,080 --> 01:34:16,720
Speaker 3: Million dollar skin too. I didn't want to say that skin.

1668
01:34:17,160 --> 01:34:17,920
Speaker 3: Very jealous and.

1669
01:34:19,439 --> 01:34:21,519
Speaker 2: Right now I've been so dry I want to die.

1670
01:34:21,680 --> 01:34:26,720
Speaker 2: I bought two hundred dollars I cream today, Yes, and

1671
01:34:26,760 --> 01:34:27,640
Speaker 2: then I can't return it.

1672
01:34:27,760 --> 01:34:28,600
Speaker 3: And then I got I.

1673
01:34:28,680 --> 01:34:30,760
Speaker 2: Got locked, I got freaked out, and I went back

1674
01:34:30,760 --> 01:34:33,800
Speaker 2: to return it and I can't return it. Apparently mhm

1675
01:34:34,040 --> 01:34:36,800
Speaker 2: suckered the way. Do you see my eyes?

1676
01:34:37,520 --> 01:34:37,920
Speaker 3: I see it.

1677
01:34:38,040 --> 01:34:42,760
Speaker 4: Wait, wait till tomorrow, Attorney Jarrett Farentino is gonna join us.

1678
01:34:42,840 --> 01:34:46,040
Speaker 3: We'll be unpacking lots of stuff. Good night, bye,