WEBVTT - Moonwalking Away with Jameela Jamil 0:00:00.760 --> 0:00:03.840 Our special guest today is Jamila Jamil. You know her 0:00:03.880 --> 0:00:05.400 from the Good Place. You know her from the new 0:00:05.440 --> 0:00:08.479 show on HBO Max Legendary. She's an actor, she's a host, 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:11.719 and she's an advocate for disability rights, l g b 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:16.480 t Q rights, body neutrality, and her work as founder 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:19.480 of the I WE Community. So let's start off tell 0:00:19.520 --> 0:00:22.800 our listeners about I WE community. So I WE Community 0:00:22.920 --> 0:00:24.840 was something I started originally because I kept on seeing 0:00:24.840 --> 0:00:27.280 photographs of famous women with numbers written across their bodies. 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:29.120 And those numbers aren't how many awards they want, how 0:00:29.120 --> 0:00:32.120 many things they've achieved, how much money they've even learned, 0:00:32.159 --> 0:00:34.320 if that's something that's an important metric is definitely one 0:00:34.360 --> 0:00:36.360 that we consider important in men. It was how much 0:00:36.360 --> 0:00:39.000 they weigh on a weighing scale in kilograms or pounds. 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:42.800 And I just couldn't believe that in twenty years after 0:00:42.840 --> 0:00:45.440 I first developed neating disorder, that is still we are 0:00:45.479 --> 0:00:48.680 still confirming my greatest fear that a number on a 0:00:48.720 --> 0:00:51.599 scale determines my worth in society. So one day I 0:00:51.600 --> 0:00:53.360 was piste off and I wrote, you know what, I 0:00:53.479 --> 0:00:57.440 fucking weigh my orgasms, my relationship with my boyfriend, my 0:00:58.120 --> 0:01:01.600 social justice work, my fine sure independence, my social dependence, 0:01:01.640 --> 0:01:03.440 the eating disorder I've overcome. I weigh the some of 0:01:03.440 --> 0:01:05.840 my mother fucking parts. I just tweeted it out at 0:01:05.840 --> 0:01:07.760 a very small following on the Internet, and for some 0:01:07.800 --> 0:01:10.200 reason it just resonated and within three days I had 0:01:10.240 --> 0:01:12.840 ten thou responses from women all over the world telling 0:01:12.840 --> 0:01:15.039 me what they weigh in those same metrics. So I 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:17.120 started an Instagram account. I thought it would be like 0:01:17.160 --> 0:01:19.319 the ice Bucket Challenge, it would just be a short phase. 0:01:19.600 --> 0:01:21.440 But now we are three years later. We have almost 0:01:21.440 --> 0:01:23.240 one and a half million followers on Instagram. We have 0:01:23.280 --> 0:01:26.360 a podcast, and we have three bills that we're trying 0:01:26.400 --> 0:01:28.319 to get emotion I just spoke at the Supreme Court 0:01:28.680 --> 0:01:30.840 regarding looking after the mental health of young people when 0:01:30.880 --> 0:01:33.600 it comes to body image and diet culture. But also 0:01:33.720 --> 0:01:35.800 it's now turned into a social justice based like a 0:01:35.840 --> 0:01:38.160 starting point for people. I think a lot of people 0:01:38.200 --> 0:01:40.000 want to get involved in social justice, especially in the 0:01:40.080 --> 0:01:41.360 last year and a half, and they don't know where 0:01:41.360 --> 0:01:43.800 to start, and it's not super welcoming space. You know, 0:01:43.880 --> 0:01:46.440 even amongst the left, amongst liberals, there's that kind of 0:01:46.640 --> 0:01:50.520 common saying about us that we're looking for We're looking 0:01:50.520 --> 0:01:52.640 for traitors and not converts. And I do feel as 0:01:52.640 --> 0:01:55.560 though that's how social media really feels. That it's not 0:01:55.640 --> 0:01:57.440 a safe space to do your learning, to admit that 0:01:57.440 --> 0:01:59.520 you don't have all of the answers, and I think 0:01:59.520 --> 0:02:02.560 that's really sad because it devalues progress. So I decided 0:02:02.600 --> 0:02:04.400 to turn my way into a space where wherever the 0:02:04.400 --> 0:02:06.920 funk you're at in your knowledge, we don't care. We're 0:02:06.920 --> 0:02:08.840 not here to judge you. We're just so excited that 0:02:08.880 --> 0:02:11.399 you want to learn. And I'm ignorant as I don't 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:14.520 know buck about ship and so I'm bringing on these 0:02:14.560 --> 0:02:17.720 experts of all different ages and backgrounds to educate me, 0:02:17.840 --> 0:02:19.680 and then you learn with me. I'm not here to 0:02:19.720 --> 0:02:21.600 tell anyone what to do. I'm just here to be 0:02:21.639 --> 0:02:24.520 the kind of mediator or you know you're I would 0:02:24.560 --> 0:02:26.080 just like to be a part of your starting point 0:02:26.120 --> 0:02:27.600 because I've got so much growth to do, and I 0:02:27.639 --> 0:02:30.000 don't believe in doing that stuff privately and presenting this 0:02:30.080 --> 0:02:33.080 image of being this kind of deity. I believe in 0:02:33.120 --> 0:02:36.240 showing your mistakes and showing your vulnerability and being open 0:02:36.320 --> 0:02:39.160 that learning is cool and something that we should actively 0:02:39.200 --> 0:02:41.399 encourage each other to do until the day that we die. 0:02:41.840 --> 0:02:44.800 So I weigh as a it's a community for learning 0:02:44.880 --> 0:02:46.800 about how to be, you know, how to show up 0:02:46.800 --> 0:02:49.959 better for each other. Well, I just climaxed from all that. 0:02:51.280 --> 0:02:55.000 So impressive, so impressive, and just so great. I fucking 0:02:55.040 --> 0:02:56.840 love it. I love it all. I love it all. 0:02:56.880 --> 0:02:59.280 And the Instagram handle for I way is just I way. 0:02:59.600 --> 0:03:03.080 It's a I underscore w E I g H. And 0:03:03.639 --> 0:03:05.680 the podcast is one of my favorite things I've ever 0:03:05.720 --> 0:03:08.480 been a part of. I've learned so much. I would 0:03:08.480 --> 0:03:10.600 love you to come onto the podcast sometimes, and are 0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:15.040 you kidding? Any time? Any time? I'd be happy to Okay, great, well, 0:03:15.080 --> 0:03:18.720 then perfect, This is the perfect time to get started. 0:03:18.760 --> 0:03:20.400 First of all, I want to talk to you about 0:03:20.440 --> 0:03:22.360 how we met. We have a lot in comments, so 0:03:22.480 --> 0:03:25.080 I was excited to find out that we're represented by 0:03:25.080 --> 0:03:27.560 the same publicist. So I reached out to you right 0:03:27.560 --> 0:03:30.040 away because I know you came up to me somewhere 0:03:30.080 --> 0:03:33.920 and introduced yourself once at some event. I don't remember. 0:03:33.960 --> 0:03:37.200 Do you remember where it was? I have no idea somewhere, 0:03:37.240 --> 0:03:39.720 but I'm a big fan of telling women when I 0:03:39.760 --> 0:03:42.640 love them, and I think it's because of how much 0:03:43.120 --> 0:03:45.120 ship we do here. It's not to say that you 0:03:45.160 --> 0:03:46.840 don't have many millions of people who tell you that 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:48.320 they love you, but women tend to get a lot 0:03:48.360 --> 0:03:50.120 of ships, sometimes from each other, but just generally from 0:03:50.120 --> 0:03:52.480 the mass public. And so I take it upon myself 0:03:52.480 --> 0:03:54.480 that when I adore someone, I just want to go 0:03:54.520 --> 0:03:56.520 and tell them. I remember it was it was Netflix 0:03:56.600 --> 0:04:00.840 just for laughs or something like that. Maybe yeah, special 0:04:00.880 --> 0:04:02.920 that we did where they made us dance in between 0:04:03.040 --> 0:04:05.120 one line of jokes and I wanted to jump off 0:04:05.160 --> 0:04:07.440 the balcony. I don't think I would have done. I 0:04:07.480 --> 0:04:09.040 don't think that was where we met, because I don't 0:04:09.040 --> 0:04:11.360 think I did Netflix as a joke. I wouldn't have 0:04:11.360 --> 0:04:14.560 agreed to dance anywhere on television because I have no rhythm. 0:04:14.720 --> 0:04:17.200 It was something where it was like a throwback of 0:04:17.240 --> 0:04:20.240 a sixt show. Jay Leno was there and Tiffany Haddish 0:04:20.240 --> 0:04:24.600 and Billy Crystal and Margaret Show. Oh. It was like 0:04:25.120 --> 0:04:29.040 it was like a telethon. It was a charity charity telethon, 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:32.080 like throw back and that makes sense out of like 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:36.680 cardboard boxes and tell one liners. It was the It 0:04:36.760 --> 0:04:40.520 was the oddest experience of my life. Right, It's so funny. 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:42.720 All of those things just blend together at a certain point, 0:04:42.720 --> 0:04:44.360 aren't they. You just don't even know where you were, 0:04:44.600 --> 0:04:47.679 what event it was. It's just all It's also stupid. 0:04:47.960 --> 0:04:52.200 But anyway, I love your Instagram, I love your messaging. 0:04:52.360 --> 0:04:56.280 I love everything you say about women and respecting yourself 0:04:56.480 --> 0:05:00.800 and being positive and calling people out when are negative 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:03.680 towards women, which is such a toxic culture, which is 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:07.200 the very reason we are in this situation that we 0:05:07.279 --> 0:05:09.919 are in in a global way but also in a 0:05:10.000 --> 0:05:14.159 more micro United States fucked up way, where men are 0:05:14.279 --> 0:05:17.640 resisting the moment we're in because they don't seem to 0:05:17.760 --> 0:05:22.200 grasp the seriousness of the situation, and they don't realize 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:25.960 that their role in this situation is prolonging the conversation 0:05:26.400 --> 0:05:29.280 instead of shortening it. You know, what could have been 0:05:29.320 --> 0:05:33.279 a conversation has turned into a culture war because men 0:05:33.400 --> 0:05:37.479 can't collectively say wow, they want to take it so personally. 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:41.720 It's like, listen, we're not talking about you specifically, every 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:44.960 single time, we're talking about men as a collective have 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:47.599 made a lot of bad mistakes, and you are a 0:05:47.640 --> 0:05:51.000 product of a structure that was created long before you 0:05:51.040 --> 0:05:54.160 were here, but that you're still benefiting from. And now 0:05:54.360 --> 0:05:57.520 we have to change everyone's kind of you know, you 0:05:57.600 --> 0:06:02.000 have to dismantle your understanding of what societal structure and 0:06:02.120 --> 0:06:08.279 falsehoods are and start appreciating and respecting the fact that women, 0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:11.960 among many other marginalized groups have been subjugated since the 0:06:11.960 --> 0:06:14.440 beginning of time for the benefit of white men, and 0:06:14.520 --> 0:06:18.280 so the treatment of women has to change. And I 0:06:19.200 --> 0:06:24.360 get so frustrated when I see them resisting that, when 0:06:24.400 --> 0:06:28.040 I see men asking stupid questions instead of really thinking 0:06:28.080 --> 0:06:31.039 about how they can affect change and how they can 0:06:31.240 --> 0:06:34.880 respect women more, and how that can just have a 0:06:34.960 --> 0:06:37.000 ripple effect. You know, if every man just did a 0:06:37.080 --> 0:06:40.120 little bit extra and tried, you don't even have to 0:06:40.160 --> 0:06:43.080 believe what you're saying in the beginning. Just start doing it, 0:06:43.200 --> 0:06:45.920 you know, out of respect for history and the way 0:06:45.960 --> 0:06:48.520 things have been. And anyway, I think that I know 0:06:48.560 --> 0:06:50.800 you touch on a lot of different subjects on your Instagram, 0:06:50.800 --> 0:06:53.599 but I think we're like minded in the fact that 0:06:53.800 --> 0:06:57.080 it's a frustrating conversation to have to constantly remind people 0:06:57.520 --> 0:07:01.520 that something is inappropriate or not an official Yeah, I 0:07:01.560 --> 0:07:03.560 totally hear you. I agree with everything you just said, 0:07:03.560 --> 0:07:05.600 But also I think it's important to point out that 0:07:05.920 --> 0:07:08.840 men don't just benefit from patriarchy. Men are also very 0:07:08.920 --> 0:07:12.440 harmed by patriarchy. Patriarchy did quite a big number on 0:07:12.560 --> 0:07:14.880 men like you. You can see it in the suicide stats. 0:07:14.880 --> 0:07:17.760 Like it's not it might be statistically benefiting them in 0:07:18.280 --> 0:07:21.680 terms of like economics and you know, social status, etcetera, 0:07:21.800 --> 0:07:25.360 in every way more so than us, But their suicide 0:07:25.560 --> 0:07:28.600 rates are just getting higher and higher and younger and younger, 0:07:28.760 --> 0:07:32.160 and so this is harming them. They are hurting themselves, 0:07:32.200 --> 0:07:35.040 they are hurting each other, and then it's that toxicity 0:07:35.120 --> 0:07:37.560 that then spills out over onto the rest of us. 0:07:37.880 --> 0:07:41.800 And so it wouldn't just benefit us for them to 0:07:42.000 --> 0:07:47.200 start to deconstruct patriarchy and that hierarchy. It's it's it's 0:07:47.240 --> 0:07:49.520 actually going to benefit all of them. It would benefit 0:07:49.600 --> 0:07:52.560 our humanity as a whole for us to unpick this 0:07:52.680 --> 0:07:59.440 like toxic, very formulaic and constructed ideal of gender, do 0:07:59.480 --> 0:08:02.040 you know what I mean? Yeah, I think it's all 0:08:02.080 --> 0:08:05.120 ships rise with the tide, right, you know, think of 0:08:05.160 --> 0:08:06.880 it as a zero sum game, and it's like, no, 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:09.280 if everybody's treated a little bit better. We're all going 0:08:09.320 --> 0:08:11.680 to be a little bit better, including men themselves, and 0:08:12.000 --> 0:08:14.160 we can obviously see. You know. I just had a 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:18.000 conversation with a friend of mine and her husband, because 0:08:18.040 --> 0:08:21.680 I like to get involved in people's interpersonal relationships. And she, 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:24.480 she was my friend, said oh, I don't think they 0:08:24.520 --> 0:08:27.280 talk at all. And I said, are you talking to him? 0:08:27.320 --> 0:08:29.000 You know, like, are you guys talking? And she's like, 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:30.600 we don't have that much to say to each other 0:08:30.640 --> 0:08:33.200 because the kids are, you know, have been taking up 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:34.760 our time for the last ten years, which is a 0:08:34.840 --> 0:08:37.680 very common situation. And so I talked to him, you know, 0:08:37.720 --> 0:08:39.160 one on one, and I said, hey, you know, like 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:41.160 you know, the kids are growing up, you guys are 0:08:41.200 --> 0:08:42.800 gonna have to get to know each other again, Like 0:08:42.840 --> 0:08:45.040 you're gonna have to start spending time together again. You know, 0:08:45.160 --> 0:08:46.400 how do you want to do that? Like how do 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:48.960 you want to rekindle and remember the reason you got 0:08:49.000 --> 0:08:50.640 together in the first place. And I said, do you 0:08:50.640 --> 0:08:54.160 want to maybe go to therapy with her? And he walked. 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:56.559 I mean, I hadn't seen a male reaction to going 0:08:56.600 --> 0:08:59.079 to therapy like that in a really long time, probably 0:08:59.120 --> 0:09:01.080 because I live in l a And everybody goes to therapy, 0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:04.559 you know, so nobody cares. But his reaction was so 0:09:04.600 --> 0:09:06.960 scary to me because he went, I'm not going to therapy. 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:10.720 I'm not. That's it's so stupid, that's whatever. You know, 0:09:10.760 --> 0:09:12.840 they all say the same thing. And I'm like, well, 0:09:12.880 --> 0:09:14.880 have you ever been to therapy? And he's like no, 0:09:14.960 --> 0:09:17.040 And I go, well, then how do you know they're 0:09:17.040 --> 0:09:19.040 all saying the same thing, and he goes, I'm not 0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:22.960 doing that, And I just thought, Okay, obviously that's not 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:25.160 a boulder that I'm gonna be able to push up hill. 0:09:25.480 --> 0:09:29.640 But how sad like, how sad to be that shut down, 0:09:29.720 --> 0:09:33.680 And that's scared of what you would discover if you 0:09:33.800 --> 0:09:36.560 had to tap into your own emotions, because that's really 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:38.880 what we're talking about here, is the fear of a 0:09:38.960 --> 0:09:42.599 man being able to be vulnerable, being able to say 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:44.840 this was my trauma, or this is what screwed me 0:09:44.920 --> 0:09:47.400 up and and this happened to me, or my father 0:09:47.480 --> 0:09:50.840 did this to me or whatever it's. It's it is 0:09:50.880 --> 0:09:53.920 so toxic, and it breads and it's a cycle that 0:09:53.960 --> 0:09:57.000 you're passing on to your children. And so it's so 0:09:57.040 --> 0:10:00.040 important for men to be able to live in a 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:03.520 different way than they've been living. You know, the idea 0:10:03.600 --> 0:10:05.520 that they're in charge and they have to take care 0:10:05.520 --> 0:10:08.040 of women and that they have to prove their masculinity 0:10:08.520 --> 0:10:11.840 over and over again is so passe. Even like if 0:10:11.920 --> 0:10:14.320 you look at some of the countries where they have 0:10:14.559 --> 0:10:16.880 the least, even the countries that tend to be the 0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:19.480 poorest a lot of the time, other countries that don't 0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:22.720 allow women to work and don't allow women equal positions. 0:10:22.760 --> 0:10:26.400 So it's like it's it's just harming men. It's so nonsense. 0:10:26.520 --> 0:10:31.120 It's so illogical to deny one half of the world 0:10:31.480 --> 0:10:35.400 basic rights equality and then also to deny yourself the 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:37.360 chance of being able to share all of that, to 0:10:37.360 --> 0:10:38.960 be able to share the way that you feel, share 0:10:39.000 --> 0:10:41.479 all of your thoughts, share your trauma, share your workload, 0:10:41.720 --> 0:10:45.240 share your life. I think it's incredibly depressing. I also 0:10:45.280 --> 0:10:48.000 think there's a tremendous lack of friendship between men and 0:10:48.040 --> 0:10:51.559 women that is still kind of perpetuated in today's culture. 0:10:51.600 --> 0:10:55.360 We still don't really have much discourse around friendships to 0:10:55.440 --> 0:10:57.240 men and women. I don't think men see themselves as 0:10:57.559 --> 0:11:00.760 valuable to women outside of being lovers, outside of being 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:03.199 foragers and so well, we've got postmates, you know what 0:11:03.240 --> 0:11:06.120 I mean. We don't fucking need men anymore for that. 0:11:06.200 --> 0:11:08.920 Like we've got doors and locks and gates, so we 0:11:08.960 --> 0:11:11.080 don't need them to protect us anymore. From a saber 0:11:11.120 --> 0:11:14.320 to fucking tiger. We are self sufficient. We can now 0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:17.200 have babies without men. There's there's almost nothing that those 0:11:17.240 --> 0:11:19.360 of us who have the privilege of, for example, being 0:11:19.360 --> 0:11:21.840 in the West or certain Eastern countries, those of us 0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:24.559 who have our own autonomy, who are granted that autonomy, 0:11:24.760 --> 0:11:27.160 don't need them. And they don't see that there's so 0:11:27.280 --> 0:11:31.280 much value in the companionship, in the in the partnership, 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:34.920 in the friendship, in the work relationship of of genders 0:11:34.960 --> 0:11:38.440 coming together. I think it's sad that they feel like 0:11:38.880 --> 0:11:41.400 we must need them for them to have value. Why 0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:43.400 can't we just want them or enjoy them, or just 0:11:43.440 --> 0:11:46.679 coexist alongside them. Maybe not. And you would think it 0:11:46.720 --> 0:11:49.160 would be a celebrate. You would think men would be like, Oh, 0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:53.959 here's an independent, strong, fierce woman that's sexy and heart 0:11:54.360 --> 0:11:58.520 and unfortunately most men are intimidated by that. Most men 0:11:58.559 --> 0:12:00.560 are intimidated by a woman that and take care of 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:04.800 herself and say okay, instead of celebrating the fact that 0:12:04.920 --> 0:12:09.840 a person has personhood and individuality, it becomes a threat, 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:13.160 which is also just such a bummer. And men shouldn't 0:12:13.160 --> 0:12:15.160 feel that burden. They shouldn't feel the burden that they 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:16.760 have to take care of the world. We're here to 0:12:16.800 --> 0:12:18.880 help you take care of the world, and you know 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:21.000 we can. We can do just as good of a job. 0:12:21.040 --> 0:12:23.840 And we should all be working in concert, not against 0:12:23.920 --> 0:12:26.520 each other. They have an exhausting worldview, and I feel 0:12:26.559 --> 0:12:28.760 I feel very relieved. In some ways, I feel very 0:12:28.760 --> 0:12:30.440 resentful that it wasn't born a man because of how 0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:32.840 difficult it is to be a woman. But in other ways, 0:12:32.920 --> 0:12:35.360 I feel relieved that I don't have to Like I 0:12:35.360 --> 0:12:39.400 don't have to slowly grow into a nuclear bomb. You know, 0:12:40.200 --> 0:12:42.640 you don't have to murder somebody. Yeah, I don't have 0:12:42.679 --> 0:12:44.440 all of that repressed. I'm not being told you. My 0:12:44.480 --> 0:12:46.959 boyfriend is a very sensitive musician, and he had to 0:12:47.000 --> 0:12:50.080 call out Pitchfork a couple of years ago for referring 0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:52.440 to his music as sad boy music like this is 0:12:52.480 --> 0:12:58.280 just it's such a coded, reductive term for someone who's 0:12:58.280 --> 0:13:01.600 truly just singing about his feelings and they're not all 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:04.400 sad songs. Some of them are about his depression, some 0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:06.400 of them are about different things that you know, he 0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:08.360 just writes about all the kind of spectrum of his 0:13:08.400 --> 0:13:12.160 feelings and immediately gets categorized just because he's not saying 0:13:12.200 --> 0:13:16.360 like terrible derogatory things about women as a sad boy, 0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:20.160 a grown man talking about his feelings explicitly, there's a 0:13:20.200 --> 0:13:23.079 sad little boy like it's very, very dangerous that I 0:13:23.080 --> 0:13:25.440 think that was two thousand and seventeen or eighteen, that 0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:27.800 that's still the language we have around a man who's 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:32.360 just confident in being who he really is. Also, men 0:13:32.520 --> 0:13:35.640 need to understand how attractive that is to us. So 0:13:35.760 --> 0:13:39.440 when we see men being vulnerable, when we see men, 0:13:39.720 --> 0:13:41.600 I mean, my boyfriend right now says things to me 0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:43.480 that I can't. I'm like, I'm going to write a 0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:46.240 book about everything you say to me, as a handbook 0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:48.600 for what every man should say to every woman. I 0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:50.360 told him the other day that I found cellulated on 0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:52.320 my arm. He goes, that's so sexy. Every woman who 0:13:52.360 --> 0:13:54.839 has cellulate is so sexy. That's what makes you a woman. 0:13:55.200 --> 0:13:57.720 I'm like, oh my god, that makes me want to 0:13:57.760 --> 0:14:00.560 fuck you. You know when men say things like that, 0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:02.720 And they had to the other night. We're in New 0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:04.800 York City and I said, oh God, we gotta go 0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:07.080 get tampons. It was like two in the morning. He's like, 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:09.040 you're not buying tampons. He goes, I'll go get them. 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:11.000 He goes, You've been buying tampons your whole life. I 0:14:11.040 --> 0:14:15.360 never want you to buy tampons again. Thank God, I 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:17.240 love you. And when you come back, I'm gonna stick 0:14:17.240 --> 0:14:19.720 that damp on somewhere. God. Wait, Chelsea, can you hear 0:14:19.760 --> 0:14:22.680 that all of your listeners just collectively came at the 0:14:22.720 --> 0:14:25.880 same time. They all climax at the same time every episode, 0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:28.720 which brings us to my next subject, Jamala. What we 0:14:28.800 --> 0:14:31.000 do on this podcast is we give advice to callers 0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:34.800 on whatever subject matter is like kind of curtailed for 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:37.960 your visit. Since you're our guest today and we know 0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:40.480 what you're passionate about. We have people who call it 0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:43.240 and these are real people, and this is like this 0:14:43.360 --> 0:14:45.840 podcast is gives me so much pleasure because I can 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:48.320 actually dole out advice to people who want it instead 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:51.360 of it being unsolicited. You know, I'm gonna take a 0:14:51.440 --> 0:14:53.280 quick break, Jamale We're gonna take a quick break and 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:55.200 we will be right back, and we are going to 0:14:55.240 --> 0:15:03.760 hear from some colors. So Catherine, our reducer, Katherine, say hello, Hello, Hi, Hi, Hi. 0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:05.560 Let's go into a couple of collars so we can 0:15:05.600 --> 0:15:08.400 get that taken care of. Fabulous. Does that sound good? 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:12.200 So listen, what do we have coming down the pike? Okay? 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:16.760 This first question comes from Peter. Dear Chelsea, I'm a 0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:19.000 thirty five year old man living in Ohio with my 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:22.840 partner of nine years. Were married. Recently, my husband lost 0:15:22.880 --> 0:15:26.280 over sixty pounds. He's lost the weight through diet and exercise, 0:15:26.320 --> 0:15:28.240 which is great, but now it's come to the point 0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:30.560 where he never wants to go out to eat because 0:15:30.600 --> 0:15:33.560 he wants to eat the exact same meal every day, 0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:37.200 and he works out several more than two times a day. 0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:40.560 He's stopped drinking and partaking in edibles as well. I 0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:42.720 originally was fine with it, as he was doing it 0:15:42.760 --> 0:15:45.800 the healthy way, but now I'm getting bored and worried. 0:15:46.560 --> 0:15:49.640 I like to go out to eat, have margarita's, have fun. 0:15:50.080 --> 0:15:53.400 He no longer participates unless there's exercise involved because he 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:56.880 quote can't manage his intake not to mention. I fell 0:15:56.920 --> 0:15:59.880 in love with him not despite his big bare body, 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:03.040 but because of it. Now he just wants to be 0:16:03.080 --> 0:16:05.960 as skinny as possible. I'm worried the diet has gone 0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:08.600 too far, and I'm concerned about his health. I have 0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:11.640 attempted to have a conversation with him about the eating habits, 0:16:11.680 --> 0:16:14.080 to which he says he's doing it in a healthy way, 0:16:14.120 --> 0:16:16.840 and his doctor has also confirmed that for him. I 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:19.320 love him so dearly and of course want what is 0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:22.120 best for him. I can't talk him into joining me 0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:28.040 for therapy. What do I do, Peter? Oh, God, Jamila, 0:16:28.280 --> 0:16:32.560 let's get your thoughts on that. Hi. Hi, Hi, Nice 0:16:32.560 --> 0:16:35.680 to meet Hi. Nice to meet you too. Wow. God, 0:16:35.760 --> 0:16:38.680 that's such an interesting predicament that you're having. I mean, obviously, 0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:41.040 I don't want to pretend that I am any kind 0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:43.240 of doctor here, but I would say that from everything 0:16:43.280 --> 0:16:46.600 I know from my own personal experience and about nineteen 0:16:46.680 --> 0:16:49.560 years working in activism for the Space, it sounds like 0:16:49.920 --> 0:16:52.520 at least orthorexia developing, which is kind of like a 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:57.040 fear of food, fear around food, and definitely disordered eating. 0:16:57.680 --> 0:17:00.920 I think that that sounds really really complicated and tricky 0:17:01.000 --> 0:17:04.400 to watch, and then also frustrating because doctors are so 0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:07.720 fast to congratulate weight loss, regardless of how it has 0:17:07.720 --> 0:17:09.920 been achieved, or how fast it's been achieved, or whether 0:17:10.000 --> 0:17:14.040 or not that method is attainable. Doctors are so obsessively 0:17:14.119 --> 0:17:16.520 fat phobic, and they're taught to be so from medical 0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:19.840 school onwards. So it's really hard to have someone who's 0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:24.160 kind of seen as a authority in that area congratulate 0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:26.639 or condone that behavior. And also it's not guaranteed that 0:17:26.680 --> 0:17:30.240 your partner is being fully honest with his anxiety around food. 0:17:30.880 --> 0:17:34.960 I think after such a long time together, I think 0:17:35.000 --> 0:17:37.920 you owe it to yourself and your partner to be 0:17:37.960 --> 0:17:40.000 honest with them about your concerns. Have you, I mean, 0:17:40.000 --> 0:17:42.439 you've voiced your concerns already, haven't you. Have you stressed 0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:47.280 those concerns? Yeah, as in a as nice as they can. Anyway, 0:17:47.800 --> 0:17:51.960 he's sort of avoidance attachment style, so like he doesn't 0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:55.240 like to actually talk about issues like this. So when 0:17:55.240 --> 0:17:58.000 we're eating the same thing every single day, it's the 0:17:58.040 --> 0:18:00.879 same meal every single day, I might let's mix it up, 0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:03.280 Let's try something else, even if it's just like a 0:18:03.359 --> 0:18:06.320 variation of the type of food that we're eating. He's like, no, 0:18:07.040 --> 0:18:09.360 I know this works for me, and I know, like 0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:12.600 my doctor has told me that this is working. So 0:18:12.960 --> 0:18:15.720 it's more so I'm treading very lightly. Yeah, which is 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:17.560 not a fun place to be for you at all. 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:19.440 I get it. I get it. First of all, nobody 0:18:19.440 --> 0:18:21.199 wants to eat the same thing every day, So why 0:18:21.600 --> 0:18:23.119 you have to eat the same thing every day is 0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:27.119 it doesn't really make any sense. His avoidance, though, is 0:18:27.119 --> 0:18:29.320 a big issue too. I mean, if he can't discuss it, 0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:31.720 then there is a situation, you know, Otherwise it would 0:18:31.720 --> 0:18:35.120 be easier to have a conversation around it. I would 0:18:35.280 --> 0:18:38.160 urge you and Jamila, I'm interested to hear what you think, 0:18:38.160 --> 0:18:39.840 but I would urge you to press him on this, 0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:42.280 you know, because this is having an impact on you now. 0:18:42.720 --> 0:18:44.720 So he's not just having an impact on his own 0:18:44.760 --> 0:18:48.000 life and using his doctor as his crutch for doing 0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:51.439 everything right. Isn't enough, Like that's great that his doctor 0:18:51.440 --> 0:18:54.119 thinks that, But you're his lover, what do you think. 0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:57.200 You know, he's obviously lost the weight he and he's 0:18:57.200 --> 0:19:00.560 obsessing about it and not participating in any of the 0:19:00.760 --> 0:19:03.560 activities that you find fun or the socializing that you 0:19:03.600 --> 0:19:06.120 find fun, which has created a chasm in your relationship, 0:19:06.640 --> 0:19:10.040 and that's not deniable because you're you're feeling this way. 0:19:10.119 --> 0:19:13.119 So he can pretend he doesn't want to talk about it, 0:19:13.200 --> 0:19:14.560 or he can feel like he doesn't want to talk 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:16.600 about it, but you want to talk about it, and 0:19:16.640 --> 0:19:18.800 I would impress it upon you to make that happen, 0:19:19.280 --> 0:19:22.080 you know, to make your feelings heard and your voice heard. 0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:25.080 Of course, you want to support his health, but not 0:19:25.200 --> 0:19:27.960 at the expense of your relationship. No, And I mean 0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:31.200 it's I've never had a call in advice section where 0:19:31.200 --> 0:19:33.479