Speaker 1: Our special guest today is Jamila Jamil. You know her
Speaker 1: from the Good Place. You know her from the new
Speaker 1: show on HBO Max Legendary. She's an actor, she's a host,
Speaker 1: and she's an advocate for disability rights, l g b
Speaker 1: t Q rights, body neutrality, and her work as founder
Speaker 1: of the I WE Community. So let's start off tell
Speaker 1: our listeners about I WE community. So I WE Community
Speaker 1: was something I started originally because I kept on seeing
Speaker 1: photographs of famous women with numbers written across their bodies.
Speaker 1: And those numbers aren't how many awards they want, how
Speaker 1: many things they've achieved, how much money they've even learned,
Speaker 1: if that's something that's an important metric is definitely one
Speaker 1: that we consider important in men. It was how much
Speaker 1: they weigh on a weighing scale in kilograms or pounds.
Speaker 1: And I just couldn't believe that in twenty years after
Speaker 1: I first developed neating disorder, that is still we are
Speaker 1: still confirming my greatest fear that a number on a
Speaker 1: scale determines my worth in society. So one day I
Speaker 1: was piste off and I wrote, you know what, I
Speaker 1: fucking weigh my orgasms, my relationship with my boyfriend, my
Speaker 1: social justice work, my fine sure independence, my social dependence,
Speaker 1: the eating disorder I've overcome. I weigh the some of
Speaker 1: my mother fucking parts. I just tweeted it out at
Speaker 1: a very small following on the Internet, and for some
Speaker 1: reason it just resonated and within three days I had
Speaker 1: ten thou responses from women all over the world telling
Speaker 1: me what they weigh in those same metrics. So I
Speaker 1: started an Instagram account. I thought it would be like
Speaker 1: the ice Bucket Challenge, it would just be a short phase.
Speaker 1: But now we are three years later. We have almost
Speaker 1: one and a half million followers on Instagram. We have
Speaker 1: a podcast, and we have three bills that we're trying
Speaker 1: to get emotion I just spoke at the Supreme Court
Speaker 1: regarding looking after the mental health of young people when
Speaker 1: it comes to body image and diet culture. But also
Speaker 1: it's now turned into a social justice based like a
Speaker 1: starting point for people. I think a lot of people
Speaker 1: want to get involved in social justice, especially in the
Speaker 1: last year and a half, and they don't know where
Speaker 1: to start, and it's not super welcoming space. You know,
Speaker 1: even amongst the left, amongst liberals, there's that kind of
Speaker 1: common saying about us that we're looking for We're looking
Speaker 1: for traitors and not converts. And I do feel as
Speaker 1: though that's how social media really feels. That it's not
Speaker 1: a safe space to do your learning, to admit that
Speaker 1: you don't have all of the answers, and I think
Speaker 1: that's really sad because it devalues progress. So I decided
Speaker 1: to turn my way into a space where wherever the
Speaker 1: funk you're at in your knowledge, we don't care. We're
Speaker 1: not here to judge you. We're just so excited that
Speaker 1: you want to learn. And I'm ignorant as I don't
Speaker 1: know buck about ship and so I'm bringing on these
Speaker 1: experts of all different ages and backgrounds to educate me,
Speaker 1: and then you learn with me. I'm not here to
Speaker 1: tell anyone what to do. I'm just here to be
Speaker 1: the kind of mediator or you know you're I would
Speaker 1: just like to be a part of your starting point
Speaker 1: because I've got so much growth to do, and I
Speaker 1: don't believe in doing that stuff privately and presenting this
Speaker 1: image of being this kind of deity. I believe in
Speaker 1: showing your mistakes and showing your vulnerability and being open
Speaker 1: that learning is cool and something that we should actively
Speaker 1: encourage each other to do until the day that we die.
Speaker 1: So I weigh as a it's a community for learning
Speaker 1: about how to be, you know, how to show up
Speaker 1: better for each other. Well, I just climaxed from all that.
Speaker 1: So impressive, so impressive, and just so great. I fucking
Speaker 1: love it. I love it all. I love it all.
Speaker 1: And the Instagram handle for I way is just I way.
Speaker 1: It's a I underscore w E I g H. And
Speaker 1: the podcast is one of my favorite things I've ever
Speaker 1: been a part of. I've learned so much. I would
Speaker 1: love you to come onto the podcast sometimes, and are
Speaker 1: you kidding? Any time? Any time? I'd be happy to Okay, great, well,
Speaker 1: then perfect, This is the perfect time to get started.
Speaker 1: First of all, I want to talk to you about
Speaker 1: how we met. We have a lot in comments, so
Speaker 1: I was excited to find out that we're represented by
Speaker 1: the same publicist. So I reached out to you right
Speaker 1: away because I know you came up to me somewhere
Speaker 1: and introduced yourself once at some event. I don't remember.
Speaker 1: Do you remember where it was? I have no idea somewhere,
Speaker 1: but I'm a big fan of telling women when I
Speaker 1: love them, and I think it's because of how much
Speaker 1: ship we do here. It's not to say that you
Speaker 1: don't have many millions of people who tell you that
Speaker 1: they love you, but women tend to get a lot
Speaker 1: of ships, sometimes from each other, but just generally from
Speaker 1: the mass public. And so I take it upon myself
Speaker 1: that when I adore someone, I just want to go
Speaker 1: and tell them. I remember it was it was Netflix
Speaker 1: just for laughs or something like that. Maybe yeah, special
Speaker 1: that we did where they made us dance in between
Speaker 1: one line of jokes and I wanted to jump off
Speaker 1: the balcony. I don't think I would have done. I
Speaker 1: don't think that was where we met, because I don't
Speaker 1: think I did Netflix as a joke. I wouldn't have
Speaker 1: agreed to dance anywhere on television because I have no rhythm.
Speaker 1: It was something where it was like a throwback of
Speaker 1: a sixt show. Jay Leno was there and Tiffany Haddish
Speaker 1: and Billy Crystal and Margaret Show. Oh. It was like
Speaker 1: it was like a telethon. It was a charity charity telethon,
Speaker 1: like throw back and that makes sense out of like
Speaker 1: cardboard boxes and tell one liners. It was the It
Speaker 1: was the oddest experience of my life. Right, It's so funny.
Speaker 1: All of those things just blend together at a certain point,
Speaker 1: aren't they. You just don't even know where you were,
Speaker 1: what event it was. It's just all It's also stupid.
Speaker 1: But anyway, I love your Instagram, I love your messaging.
Speaker 1: I love everything you say about women and respecting yourself
Speaker 1: and being positive and calling people out when are negative
Speaker 1: towards women, which is such a toxic culture, which is
Speaker 1: the very reason we are in this situation that we
Speaker 1: are in in a global way but also in a
Speaker 1: more micro United States fucked up way, where men are
Speaker 1: resisting the moment we're in because they don't seem to
Speaker 1: grasp the seriousness of the situation, and they don't realize
Speaker 1: that their role in this situation is prolonging the conversation
Speaker 1: instead of shortening it. You know, what could have been
Speaker 1: a conversation has turned into a culture war because men
Speaker 1: can't collectively say wow, they want to take it so personally.
Speaker 1: It's like, listen, we're not talking about you specifically, every
Speaker 1: single time, we're talking about men as a collective have
Speaker 1: made a lot of bad mistakes, and you are a
Speaker 1: product of a structure that was created long before you
Speaker 1: were here, but that you're still benefiting from. And now
Speaker 1: we have to change everyone's kind of you know, you
Speaker 1: have to dismantle your understanding of what societal structure and
Speaker 1: falsehoods are and start appreciating and respecting the fact that women,
Speaker 1: among many other marginalized groups have been subjugated since the
Speaker 1: beginning of time for the benefit of white men, and
Speaker 1: so the treatment of women has to change. And I
Speaker 1: get so frustrated when I see them resisting that, when
Speaker 1: I see men asking stupid questions instead of really thinking
Speaker 1: about how they can affect change and how they can
Speaker 1: respect women more, and how that can just have a
Speaker 1: ripple effect. You know, if every man just did a
Speaker 1: little bit extra and tried, you don't even have to
Speaker 1: believe what you're saying in the beginning. Just start doing it,
Speaker 1: you know, out of respect for history and the way
Speaker 1: things have been. And anyway, I think that I know
Speaker 1: you touch on a lot of different subjects on your Instagram,
Speaker 1: but I think we're like minded in the fact that
Speaker 1: it's a frustrating conversation to have to constantly remind people
Speaker 1: that something is inappropriate or not an official Yeah, I
Speaker 1: totally hear you. I agree with everything you just said,
Speaker 1: But also I think it's important to point out that
Speaker 1: men don't just benefit from patriarchy. Men are also very
Speaker 1: harmed by patriarchy. Patriarchy did quite a big number on
Speaker 1: men like you. You can see it in the suicide stats.
Speaker 1: Like it's not it might be statistically benefiting them in
Speaker 1: terms of like economics and you know, social status, etcetera,
Speaker 1: in every way more so than us, But their suicide
Speaker 1: rates are just getting higher and higher and younger and younger,
Speaker 1: and so this is harming them. They are hurting themselves,
Speaker 1: they are hurting each other, and then it's that toxicity
Speaker 1: that then spills out over onto the rest of us.
Speaker 1: And so it wouldn't just benefit us for them to
Speaker 1: start to deconstruct patriarchy and that hierarchy. It's it's it's
Speaker 1: actually going to benefit all of them. It would benefit
Speaker 1: our humanity as a whole for us to unpick this
Speaker 1: like toxic, very formulaic and constructed ideal of gender, do
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Yeah, I think it's all
Speaker 1: ships rise with the tide, right, you know, think of
Speaker 1: it as a zero sum game, and it's like, no,
Speaker 1: if everybody's treated a little bit better. We're all going
Speaker 1: to be a little bit better, including men themselves, and
Speaker 1: we can obviously see. You know. I just had a
Speaker 1: conversation with a friend of mine and her husband, because
Speaker 1: I like to get involved in people's interpersonal relationships. And she,
Speaker 1: she was my friend, said oh, I don't think they
Speaker 1: talk at all. And I said, are you talking to him?
Speaker 1: You know, like, are you guys talking? And she's like,
Speaker 1: we don't have that much to say to each other
Speaker 1: because the kids are, you know, have been taking up
Speaker 1: our time for the last ten years, which is a
Speaker 1: very common situation. And so I talked to him, you know,
Speaker 1: one on one, and I said, hey, you know, like
Speaker 1: you know, the kids are growing up, you guys are
Speaker 1: gonna have to get to know each other again, Like
Speaker 1: you're gonna have to start spending time together again. You know,
Speaker 1: how do you want to do that? Like how do
Speaker 1: you want to rekindle and remember the reason you got
Speaker 1: together in the first place. And I said, do you
Speaker 1: want to maybe go to therapy with her? And he walked.
Speaker 1: I mean, I hadn't seen a male reaction to going
Speaker 1: to therapy like that in a really long time, probably
Speaker 1: because I live in l a And everybody goes to therapy,
Speaker 1: you know, so nobody cares. But his reaction was so
Speaker 1: scary to me because he went, I'm not going to therapy.
Speaker 1: I'm not. That's it's so stupid, that's whatever. You know,
Speaker 1: they all say the same thing. And I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: have you ever been to therapy? And he's like no,
Speaker 1: And I go, well, then how do you know they're
Speaker 1: all saying the same thing, and he goes, I'm not
Speaker 1: doing that, And I just thought, Okay, obviously that's not
Speaker 1: a boulder that I'm gonna be able to push up hill.
Speaker 1: But how sad like, how sad to be that shut down,
Speaker 1: And that's scared of what you would discover if you
Speaker 1: had to tap into your own emotions, because that's really
Speaker 1: what we're talking about here, is the fear of a
Speaker 1: man being able to be vulnerable, being able to say
Speaker 1: this was my trauma, or this is what screwed me
Speaker 1: up and and this happened to me, or my father
Speaker 1: did this to me or whatever it's. It's it is
Speaker 1: so toxic, and it breads and it's a cycle that
Speaker 1: you're passing on to your children. And so it's so
Speaker 1: important for men to be able to live in a
Speaker 1: different way than they've been living. You know, the idea
Speaker 1: that they're in charge and they have to take care
Speaker 1: of women and that they have to prove their masculinity
Speaker 1: over and over again is so passe. Even like if
Speaker 1: you look at some of the countries where they have
Speaker 1: the least, even the countries that tend to be the
Speaker 1: poorest a lot of the time, other countries that don't
Speaker 1: allow women to work and don't allow women equal positions.
Speaker 1: So it's like it's it's just harming men. It's so nonsense.
Speaker 1: It's so illogical to deny one half of the world
Speaker 1: basic rights equality and then also to deny yourself the
Speaker 1: chance of being able to share all of that, to
Speaker 1: be able to share the way that you feel, share
Speaker 1: all of your thoughts, share your trauma, share your workload,
Speaker 1: share your life. I think it's incredibly depressing. I also
Speaker 1: think there's a tremendous lack of friendship between men and
Speaker 1: women that is still kind of perpetuated in today's culture.
Speaker 1: We still don't really have much discourse around friendships to
Speaker 1: men and women. I don't think men see themselves as
Speaker 1: valuable to women outside of being lovers, outside of being
Speaker 1: foragers and so well, we've got postmates, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. We don't fucking need men anymore for that.
Speaker 1: Like we've got doors and locks and gates, so we
Speaker 1: don't need them to protect us anymore. From a saber
Speaker 1: to fucking tiger. We are self sufficient. We can now
Speaker 1: have babies without men. There's there's almost nothing that those
Speaker 1: of us who have the privilege of, for example, being
Speaker 1: in the West or certain Eastern countries, those of us
Speaker 1: who have our own autonomy, who are granted that autonomy,
Speaker 1: don't need them. And they don't see that there's so
Speaker 1: much value in the companionship, in the in the partnership,
Speaker 1: in the friendship, in the work relationship of of genders
Speaker 1: coming together. I think it's sad that they feel like
Speaker 1: we must need them for them to have value. Why
Speaker 1: can't we just want them or enjoy them, or just
Speaker 1: coexist alongside them. Maybe not. And you would think it
Speaker 1: would be a celebrate. You would think men would be like, Oh,
Speaker 1: here's an independent, strong, fierce woman that's sexy and heart
Speaker 1: and unfortunately most men are intimidated by that. Most men
Speaker 1: are intimidated by a woman that and take care of
Speaker 1: herself and say okay, instead of celebrating the fact that
Speaker 1: a person has personhood and individuality, it becomes a threat,
Speaker 1: which is also just such a bummer. And men shouldn't
Speaker 1: feel that burden. They shouldn't feel the burden that they
Speaker 1: have to take care of the world. We're here to
Speaker 1: help you take care of the world, and you know
Speaker 1: we can. We can do just as good of a job.
Speaker 1: And we should all be working in concert, not against
Speaker 1: each other. They have an exhausting worldview, and I feel
Speaker 1: I feel very relieved. In some ways, I feel very
Speaker 1: resentful that it wasn't born a man because of how
Speaker 1: difficult it is to be a woman. But in other ways,
Speaker 1: I feel relieved that I don't have to Like I
Speaker 1: don't have to slowly grow into a nuclear bomb. You know,
Speaker 1: you don't have to murder somebody. Yeah, I don't have
Speaker 1: all of that repressed. I'm not being told you. My
Speaker 1: boyfriend is a very sensitive musician, and he had to
Speaker 1: call out Pitchfork a couple of years ago for referring
Speaker 1: to his music as sad boy music like this is
Speaker 1: just it's such a coded, reductive term for someone who's
Speaker 1: truly just singing about his feelings and they're not all
Speaker 1: sad songs. Some of them are about his depression, some
Speaker 1: of them are about different things that you know, he
Speaker 1: just writes about all the kind of spectrum of his
Speaker 1: feelings and immediately gets categorized just because he's not saying
Speaker 1: like terrible derogatory things about women as a sad boy,
Speaker 1: a grown man talking about his feelings explicitly, there's a
Speaker 1: sad little boy like it's very, very dangerous that I
Speaker 1: think that was two thousand and seventeen or eighteen, that
Speaker 1: that's still the language we have around a man who's
Speaker 1: just confident in being who he really is. Also, men
Speaker 1: need to understand how attractive that is to us. So
Speaker 1: when we see men being vulnerable, when we see men,
Speaker 1: I mean, my boyfriend right now says things to me
Speaker 1: that I can't. I'm like, I'm going to write a
Speaker 1: book about everything you say to me, as a handbook
Speaker 1: for what every man should say to every woman. I
Speaker 1: told him the other day that I found cellulated on
Speaker 1: my arm. He goes, that's so sexy. Every woman who
Speaker 1: has cellulate is so sexy. That's what makes you a woman.
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my god, that makes me want to
Speaker 1: fuck you. You know when men say things like that,
Speaker 1: And they had to the other night. We're in New
Speaker 1: York City and I said, oh God, we gotta go
Speaker 1: get tampons. It was like two in the morning. He's like,
Speaker 1: you're not buying tampons. He goes, I'll go get them.
Speaker 1: He goes, You've been buying tampons your whole life. I
Speaker 1: never want you to buy tampons again. Thank God, I
Speaker 1: love you. And when you come back, I'm gonna stick
Speaker 1: that damp on somewhere. God. Wait, Chelsea, can you hear
Speaker 1: that all of your listeners just collectively came at the
Speaker 1: same time. They all climax at the same time every episode,
Speaker 1: which brings us to my next subject, Jamala. What we
Speaker 1: do on this podcast is we give advice to callers
Speaker 1: on whatever subject matter is like kind of curtailed for
Speaker 1: your visit. Since you're our guest today and we know
Speaker 1: what you're passionate about. We have people who call it
Speaker 1: and these are real people, and this is like this
Speaker 1: podcast is gives me so much pleasure because I can
Speaker 1: actually dole out advice to people who want it instead
Speaker 1: of it being unsolicited. You know, I'm gonna take a
Speaker 1: quick break, Jamale We're gonna take a quick break and
Speaker 1: we will be right back, and we are going to
Speaker 1: hear from some colors. So Catherine, our reducer, Katherine, say hello, Hello, Hi, Hi, Hi.
Speaker 1: Let's go into a couple of collars so we can
Speaker 1: get that taken care of. Fabulous. Does that sound good?
Speaker 1: So listen, what do we have coming down the pike? Okay?
Speaker 1: This first question comes from Peter. Dear Chelsea, I'm a
Speaker 1: thirty five year old man living in Ohio with my
Speaker 1: partner of nine years. Were married. Recently, my husband lost
Speaker 1: over sixty pounds. He's lost the weight through diet and exercise,
Speaker 1: which is great, but now it's come to the point
Speaker 1: where he never wants to go out to eat because
Speaker 1: he wants to eat the exact same meal every day,
Speaker 1: and he works out several more than two times a day.
Speaker 1: He's stopped drinking and partaking in edibles as well. I
Speaker 1: originally was fine with it, as he was doing it
Speaker 1: the healthy way, but now I'm getting bored and worried.
Speaker 1: I like to go out to eat, have margarita's, have fun.
Speaker 1: He no longer participates unless there's exercise involved because he
Speaker 1: quote can't manage his intake not to mention. I fell
Speaker 1: in love with him not despite his big bare body,
Speaker 1: but because of it. Now he just wants to be
Speaker 1: as skinny as possible. I'm worried the diet has gone
Speaker 1: too far, and I'm concerned about his health. I have
Speaker 1: attempted to have a conversation with him about the eating habits,
Speaker 1: to which he says he's doing it in a healthy way,
Speaker 1: and his doctor has also confirmed that for him. I
Speaker 1: love him so dearly and of course want what is
Speaker 1: best for him. I can't talk him into joining me
Speaker 1: for therapy. What do I do, Peter? Oh, God, Jamila,
Speaker 1: let's get your thoughts on that. Hi. Hi, Hi, Nice
Speaker 1: to meet Hi. Nice to meet you too. Wow. God,
Speaker 1: that's such an interesting predicament that you're having. I mean, obviously,
Speaker 1: I don't want to pretend that I am any kind
Speaker 1: of doctor here, but I would say that from everything
Speaker 1: I know from my own personal experience and about nineteen
Speaker 1: years working in activism for the Space, it sounds like
Speaker 1: at least orthorexia developing, which is kind of like a
Speaker 1: fear of food, fear around food, and definitely disordered eating.
Speaker 1: I think that that sounds really really complicated and tricky
Speaker 1: to watch, and then also frustrating because doctors are so
Speaker 1: fast to congratulate weight loss, regardless of how it has
Speaker 1: been achieved, or how fast it's been achieved, or whether
Speaker 1: or not that method is attainable. Doctors are so obsessively
Speaker 1: fat phobic, and they're taught to be so from medical
Speaker 1: school onwards. So it's really hard to have someone who's
Speaker 1: kind of seen as a authority in that area congratulate
Speaker 1: or condone that behavior. And also it's not guaranteed that
Speaker 1: your partner is being fully honest with his anxiety around food.
Speaker 1: I think after such a long time together, I think
Speaker 1: you owe it to yourself and your partner to be
Speaker 1: honest with them about your concerns. Have you, I mean,
Speaker 1: you've voiced your concerns already, haven't you. Have you stressed
Speaker 1: those concerns? Yeah, as in a as nice as they can. Anyway,
Speaker 1: he's sort of avoidance attachment style, so like he doesn't
Speaker 1: like to actually talk about issues like this. So when
Speaker 1: we're eating the same thing every single day, it's the
Speaker 1: same meal every single day, I might let's mix it up,
Speaker 1: Let's try something else, even if it's just like a
Speaker 1: variation of the type of food that we're eating. He's like, no,
Speaker 1: I know this works for me, and I know, like
Speaker 1: my doctor has told me that this is working. So
Speaker 1: it's more so I'm treading very lightly. Yeah, which is
Speaker 1: not a fun place to be for you at all.
Speaker 1: I get it. I get it. First of all, nobody
Speaker 1: wants to eat the same thing every day, So why
Speaker 1: you have to eat the same thing every day is
Speaker 1: it doesn't really make any sense. His avoidance, though, is
Speaker 1: a big issue too. I mean, if he can't discuss it,
Speaker 1: then there is a situation, you know, Otherwise it would
Speaker 1: be easier to have a conversation around it. I would
Speaker 1: urge you and Jamila, I'm interested to hear what you think,
Speaker 1: but I would urge you to press him on this,
Speaker 1: you know, because this is having an impact on you now.
Speaker 1: So he's not just having an impact on his own
Speaker 1: life and using his doctor as his crutch for doing
Speaker 1: everything right. Isn't enough, Like that's great that his doctor
Speaker 1: thinks that, But you're his lover, what do you think.
Speaker 1: You know, he's obviously lost the weight he and he's
Speaker 1: obsessing about it and not participating in any of the
Speaker 1: activities that you find fun or the socializing that you
Speaker 1: find fun, which has created a chasm in your relationship,
Speaker 1: and that's not deniable because you're you're feeling this way.
Speaker 1: So he can pretend he doesn't want to talk about it,
Speaker 1: or he can feel like he doesn't want to talk
Speaker 1: about it, but you want to talk about it, and
Speaker 1: I would impress it upon you to make that happen,
Speaker 1: you know, to make your feelings heard and your voice heard.
Speaker 1: Of course, you want to support his health, but not
Speaker 1: at the expense of your relationship. No, And I mean
Speaker 1: it's I've never had a call in advice section where
Speaker 1: I'm actually face to face with the person writing in,
Speaker 1: So I tend to be deeply ruthless in my advice
Speaker 1: and that's harder to do to your extremely angelic face.
Speaker 1: But but fuck it, right, I have lived a very long,
Speaker 1: very hard life, and I have a pretty brutal stance
Speaker 1: on someone not being willing to investigate something that is
Speaker 1: problematic for me as someone they share the home space with.
Speaker 1: So if someone wasn't willing to go to therapy when
Speaker 1: they are exhibiting signs of something that is definitely troubling
Speaker 1: and something that is impacting me negatively, if they're not
Speaker 1: willing to even come to therapy with me and to
Speaker 1: investigate it with an expert other than they're very enabling,
Speaker 1: probably quite fatphobic doctor. Then I would take that as
Speaker 1: a sign that my happiness and my feeling of safety
Speaker 1: or joy in a relationship isn't a priority to them,
Speaker 1: in which case, oh fucking al the seven billion people
Speaker 1: in the world that we could be with. I frequently
Speaker 1: asked myself in relationships if I met you now, would
Speaker 1: I ask for your number? And I know that you've
Speaker 1: been together a really long time, and this is and
Speaker 1: I'm just that you know, dickhead off the good place
Speaker 1: and not then do I know I'm not supposed to
Speaker 1: interfere with your life, but I do think that I
Speaker 1: do think that prioritizing your well being is important, and
Speaker 1: it sounds like he's certainly doing that with his own life,
Speaker 1: and he's not really making your priority. And it has
Speaker 1: to kind of be a combination. You're not looking to
Speaker 1: interfere with him, You're not trying to make him live
Speaker 1: a shorter or unhealthier or worse life. You don't want
Speaker 1: him to feel bad about himself. But also this is
Speaker 1: an obsessive lifestyle and you're being dragged into it in
Speaker 1: every aspect, and you're being curtailed, and you're probably gonna
Speaker 1: have to go at socialize without him, So he's now
Speaker 1: missing chunks of your life. You're not witnessing each other's
Speaker 1: lives together because of his obsession, because of what it
Speaker 1: sounds like a bit of an addiction to the eating disorder.
Speaker 1: And so I think you kind of have to put
Speaker 1: your foot down otherwise you're unfortunately enabling this behavior like
Speaker 1: it's an own goal, you know what I mean. I
Speaker 1: think you should. I think it kind of has to
Speaker 1: be either you come to therapy, Like if you have
Speaker 1: nothing to hide, then you shouldn't be afraid of speaking
Speaker 1: to a mental health professional, because I think that's what
Speaker 1: it is with a lot of people with eating disorders,
Speaker 1: that they're afraid to get help because they're afraid of
Speaker 1: getting fat if they get better. They subconsciously know that
Speaker 1: there's something wrong and they're afraid that their biggest fear
Speaker 1: will come true. And it's really important that your partner
Speaker 1: cares enough about you to make sure that you feel
Speaker 1: comfortable in this relationship. So I think it's a kind
Speaker 1: of either or situation. Yeah, and I believe. I believe
Speaker 1: that he cares, saying we've been together her, like you said,
Speaker 1: nine years. We're obviously coming up of the pandemic, to
Speaker 1: which was to cult because it was a lot of
Speaker 1: eating and a lot of drinking that we normally wouldn't do, so, like,
Speaker 1: I gained a lot of weight. But in the midst
Speaker 1: of that, something shifted where all of a sudden I
Speaker 1: was the one just eating and drinking, and then he
Speaker 1: was going to the gym every single day and working
Speaker 1: out and running, and which is fine and great. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's all which is great, and I'm glad like and
Speaker 1: he obviously feels better as you would if you worked
Speaker 1: out every single day, multiple times a day. But it
Speaker 1: was such a sudden shift that I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: we're not doing Margarita's three times the night, which we
Speaker 1: normally wouldn't do. With the pandemic was just bury that
Speaker 1: for us. So do you feel a bit left behind? Then?
Speaker 1: Is that also part of this that you feel a
Speaker 1: bit left behind? Do you feel a bit bad about
Speaker 1: your lifestyle because he's, you know, making such an effort
Speaker 1: with his lifestyle. Yeah, and now, yeah, I definitely feel
Speaker 1: death And it's mainly you know I've obviously talked to
Speaker 1: somebody about like my insecurities in a scenario, and that
Speaker 1: like all of a sudden, like when we got together,
Speaker 1: like I was like stick thin and he was bigger,
Speaker 1: and now it's sort of reversing. So there is a
Speaker 1: part of my insecurity and as well that I'm like,
Speaker 1: I might be pushing my feelings a little too far.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's not his fault. I don't want to enable
Speaker 1: them either, but there's also my part. It's extremely accountable
Speaker 1: of you. I didn't realize that when I was saying
Speaker 1: that earlier. I still think that it sounds like there
Speaker 1: is an obsessive attitude towards food that needs to be remedied,
Speaker 1: and I think all people with eating disorders have to
Speaker 1: be accountable to the people they live with and chesspace
Speaker 1: with to do everything they can to come out with that.
Speaker 1: But exercise, I think is fantastic. I don't really care
Speaker 1: how many times a day people do it. Obviously you
Speaker 1: can't have exercise addiction, but I do think it's I
Speaker 1: do think it's really great that you're investigating, that you're
Speaker 1: doing that with a therapist, your own kind of insecurity.
Speaker 1: You worried that if he becomes more attractive he would
Speaker 1: leave you or actually, weirdly that's not the case, which
Speaker 1: normally like I would be, but I'm pretty secure. We're
Speaker 1: pretty secure in our relationship and that I don't think,
Speaker 1: you know, he's never said to me your body is
Speaker 1: changing or whatever like that, So sometimes they feel bad
Speaker 1: when I'm like, your body is changing, and obviously it's
Speaker 1: changing for the better, as was he when we got married.
Speaker 1: So I'm working on my insecurities on my own with him.
Speaker 1: I'm sort of just letting him go because he seems
Speaker 1: to be pleased with that. I think that's a great
Speaker 1: place to come from, though, you know what I mean, Like,
Speaker 1: it's great for you to open the conversation by even
Speaker 1: admitting what your issues are, because that's not placing blame
Speaker 1: on him. It's like, hey, I'm struggling with this a
Speaker 1: little bit, and I think, you know, it's less accusatory
Speaker 1: and it's more of a couple's issue that you need
Speaker 1: to come together with a third party for right. You know,
Speaker 1: you have your insecurities and he has his, and it
Speaker 1: would be helpful to have a third party's kind of
Speaker 1: input or opinion on all of those things. And starting
Speaker 1: with your own insecurities is a great way to kind
Speaker 1: of kind of lubricate the conversation. I think that's really important.
Speaker 1: But also I don't think you can allow the fact
Speaker 1: that you're owning up the fact that you have insecurities
Speaker 1: to make him feel like then well, then that's just
Speaker 1: you and your issues. It's very important to remind everyone
Speaker 1: that you know, two things can be through. At the
Speaker 1: same time, you might have insecurities. You might feel like
Speaker 1: he's drifting away from your becoming I don't know, like
Speaker 1: better than you're any of these things, because he's living this,
Speaker 1: you know, societally more acceptable lifestyle than three margharita's a day.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, he also might be developing
Speaker 1: an obsession. And so therefore, as I said at the beginning,
Speaker 1: I really I feel very very strongly about if you
Speaker 1: ask someone to at least just try speaking to a
Speaker 1: professional because something is happening, something shifting in the relationships
Speaker 1: making uncomfortable. If they're not willing to do it, then
Speaker 1: they're not being considered your feelings. So hopefully you will
Speaker 1: just take a firm line with that. And I think
Speaker 1: Chelsea's right the opening with your own ship is going
Speaker 1: to I think soften him. Yeah, I think that's smart,
Speaker 1: and I dispake me coming on a podcast and talking
Speaker 1: about it. I generally don't talk about my insecurities with
Speaker 1: him a whole lot. That's sort of what I have
Speaker 1: a therapist for. So I think you're right. And also,
Speaker 1: you know, Jamil and I were just before you call
Speaker 1: talking about this this you know, male kind of toxicity
Speaker 1: and that the way that men are raised in this world,
Speaker 1: and to think that they're not allowed to talk to
Speaker 1: each other about those things. And because you're two gay men,
Speaker 1: you make not think it's it's the same thing. You're
Speaker 1: both men, you were raised as men. You know, you're
Speaker 1: not women. You're not encouraged to talk about your feelings.
Speaker 1: So this is not huge opportunity for you and for him,
Speaker 1: and hopefully you guys can come out the other side
Speaker 1: of it. But yeah, with with with nine years of history,
Speaker 1: you owe it to yourself to get a little deeper
Speaker 1: with him and to get a little bit more honest
Speaker 1: about your feelings and your insecurities and those that always
Speaker 1: opens up the door for the other person to do
Speaker 1: the same. Yeah, if you're hiding shipped from each other,
Speaker 1: it's only going to build a space between the two
Speaker 1: of you because there's a lack of integrity then in
Speaker 1: in acting as though you're fine when you're not. I
Speaker 1: don't mean that in a judgmental way. I just think
Speaker 1: that then you're not really being your full self. You're
Speaker 1: not showing up as your full self with each other.
Speaker 1: And and I mean, I think it sounds like you
Speaker 1: love each other very much, and you have so much
Speaker 1: respect for him, and you're being very thoughtful and careful
Speaker 1: with him in this delicate situation, and so I I
Speaker 1: have faith that you're going to nail this. Okay, well,
Speaker 1: thank you, I appreciate it. Do you feel like you're
Speaker 1: going to be able to have that conversation soon? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I do. He did read some of it, so you know,
Speaker 1: he knew the conversation I was having today. And he
Speaker 1: even lasted the house because he has today absout. He
Speaker 1: left the house to make sure like I wouldn't feel
Speaker 1: like I couldn't speak my truth or whatever. He knows
Speaker 1: the conversation could be coming. Yeah. Yeah, well this is
Speaker 1: the perfect timing. Then you can just explain to him
Speaker 1: the conversation you had with us, and it started that
Speaker 1: way yeah, he must be kind of open if he
Speaker 1: knows you're going on a massive fucking podcast to talk
Speaker 1: about it. I reckon, you're not too far off. I
Speaker 1: think he'll do it. I think he'll try it was
Speaker 1: there to be afraid of. If there's nothing to be
Speaker 1: afraid of, then he shouldn't avoid it. Yeah. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: you know, there are lots of people that go through
Speaker 1: really extreme eating disorder phases in their lives. You know,
Speaker 1: people have struggles, and it doesn't mean it's permanent. It
Speaker 1: doesn't mean it's forever. It's a point in your life
Speaker 1: and a space and time in your life that takes
Speaker 1: up a lot of your time and a lot of
Speaker 1: your attention. But it's you know, nothing's really that permanent.
Speaker 1: So you know, don't be hopeless in any regard. Just
Speaker 1: be very optimistic and forthcoming and that you know, breeds
Speaker 1: were different, different sets of results than doing what you've
Speaker 1: done in the past or you know, not expressing yourself
Speaker 1: and all that. But please keep us posted and let
Speaker 1: us know what happens, because we always love feedback and
Speaker 1: I always love updates from all of our patients, even
Speaker 1: though we're not medical doctors. I like to think that
Speaker 1: I am. Even though I'm Indian, I maintain that I'm not.
Speaker 1: She's a doctor by birth. We come out with the
Speaker 1: stuff that's going around the neck, just like straight out
Speaker 1: of the pussy, and I'm not goodbye, goodbye, thank you?
Speaker 1: Well sweet huh? I know, and it's sweet. It's you
Speaker 1: know what. When I started doing this podcast, I was
Speaker 1: like doing it in a little tongue in cheek and
Speaker 1: I thought, oh, we'll get some maybe quasi serious things,
Speaker 1: and then people start calling in with real fucking problems
Speaker 1: and real life situations. So it's really good. You give
Speaker 1: great advice. By the way, Jamala, so you're saying a
Speaker 1: great addition to this blunt Catherine, Who do we have
Speaker 1: on deck? Okay, well, I think that's the only caller
Speaker 1: will probably do for today. I have someone else, But
Speaker 1: there are a couple of other questions that I want
Speaker 1: to make sure we get to with Jimmy La. This
Speaker 1: question is from l Dear Chelsea. I was recently on
Speaker 1: a girl's weekend and got really high on a edible,
Speaker 1: higher than I've ever been. We were with a few
Speaker 1: people i'd never met, one of them being a lesbian couple,
Speaker 1: and I started to get attracted to this one girl.
Speaker 1: I've never questioned my sexuality before when it hit me
Speaker 1: like a ton of bricks. I've never been attracted to
Speaker 1: a guy like this. With them, I've always just thought, oh,
Speaker 1: they'll do I guess I just figured i'd never found
Speaker 1: the right one. Now I can't stop thinking that I
Speaker 1: might be gay, and I'm kind of freaking out about it.
Speaker 1: What do I do? Well, first, you should read Glenn
Speaker 1: and Doyle's book Untamed, and then you could read Love
Speaker 1: Warrior also, which that was the prelude to Untamed. But
Speaker 1: I think it's very very common to fall in love
Speaker 1: with people, not to fall in love with sexes, and
Speaker 1: so another construct of society that we are subject to
Speaker 1: and products of, but is not the way that it
Speaker 1: necessarily is. And I think when you have a strong, strong,
Speaker 1: kind of electrical reaction to somebody, you should always pay
Speaker 1: attention to that because chemistry is so important between people,
Speaker 1: whether it's a love interest or not. You know, when
Speaker 1: you have a vibe with somebody, it's undeniable and you should,
Speaker 1: you know, and it doesn't matter whether you're gay or
Speaker 1: whether you're straight. We live in one you know, and
Speaker 1: I know some states are worse than others. But we're
Speaker 1: moving towards the future. So just be accepting of your
Speaker 1: feelings first of all, and don't ever try and push
Speaker 1: those away, because that is the first thing that people
Speaker 1: do that is wrong. You should always just accept what
Speaker 1: you're feeling, let it come up, and sit around and
Speaker 1: think about it for as long as you want. But
Speaker 1: but that feeling is there for a reason. Women's intuition
Speaker 1: is everything, and I can't stress enough how we forget
Speaker 1: how strong our intuition is, and when we don't act
Speaker 1: on it, we're not serving our own best interests or
Speaker 1: the interests of others. We're just kind of putting like
Speaker 1: a pin in something that is never going to go away.
Speaker 1: So I would encourage you to explore that further. For sure.
Speaker 1: Explore your relationship with that woman you know, or create
Speaker 1: a friendship, or reach out to that person. Did she
Speaker 1: say in the letter if she had reached out yet
Speaker 1: or she just felt that strong. Yeah, I would encourage
Speaker 1: you to explore that because that's what life is about,
Speaker 1: is about seizing opportunities and listening to your feelings. And
Speaker 1: that's something that we're talking about a lot that I
Speaker 1: think women have an advantage over men with We do
Speaker 1: listen to our feelings, but sometimes we learn that we
Speaker 1: over analyze the situation or we think we have to
Speaker 1: define a situation, and it's not necessarily the case for
Speaker 1: anything in life to have to define it with such structure. Jimmiela,
Speaker 1: what are your thoughts on this? I think she should
Speaker 1: hold it in obviously all of the things that I
Speaker 1: write on my Instagram every day. Just bottle it up.
Speaker 1: Never tell a soul. No. I agree with everything you said.
Speaker 1: I have no further questions. You're on a you know,
Speaker 1: like that. Everything you said, it's exactly how I feel,
Speaker 1: and I think that well. I hope that the next
Speaker 1: generation have more of an understanding of fluidity regarding gender
Speaker 1: or sexuality or many of these different things, and so
Speaker 1: learn from the kids. Listen to the kids. Definitely read
Speaker 1: Untamed and start, you know, filling your timeline with more
Speaker 1: queer people so you can see that it's not this
Speaker 1: terrible thing that involved being always ostracized and shunned and
Speaker 1: living a terrible heathen lifestyle. It's just a very normal,
Speaker 1: happy life. It's a much happier life than when you're
Speaker 1: denying yourself your basic instincts. Yeah, I would say, read untamed,
Speaker 1: and then you're not going to have any questions left
Speaker 1: because that is the definition of somebody doing the thing
Speaker 1: that she thought she could never do. How exciting though,
Speaker 1: How exciting to find that out about yourself at any
Speaker 1: age better late than never, Jesus. And how exciting to
Speaker 1: have that charge of meeting somebody and having those feelings.
Speaker 1: That's exciting too. I Mean, people go through their whole
Speaker 1: lives and say they don't feel that, So don't ever
Speaker 1: ignore that kind of fire, you know. All Right, Well,
Speaker 1: thank you for writing in and definitely keep up posted. Yes,
Speaker 1: after you express your interest to said potential love interests,
Speaker 1: please let us know how that goes and what happens.
Speaker 1: We need all the details, please. Well, I've got one
Speaker 1: more question for the two of you. This comes from
Speaker 1: Patty Dear Chelsea. Here's my question, based solely on vanity.
Speaker 1: I just turned forty and I'm slowly watching myself adopt
Speaker 1: my mother's double chin slash turkey neck. I absolutely swoon
Speaker 1: over how beautiful your skin is and how great you
Speaker 1: always look. I'm hoping you have a skincare routine that
Speaker 1: doesn't cost a fortune and some sort of advice to
Speaker 1: help slow the seemingly inevitable turkey neck. I'm a yoga
Speaker 1: teacher and a ski instructor. I take care of my body.
Speaker 1: I eat healthy, drink my water, and other than my neck,
Speaker 1: I am very happy with the way my body looks.
Speaker 1: Help Patty, but made me really sad. Let me just
Speaker 1: Jamala had her head in her hands when she was
Speaker 1: listening to this because it was upsetting to her. And
Speaker 1: why don't you, why don't you start, Jamala, because this
Speaker 1: is your area, this is this is definitely your area
Speaker 1: of expertise. I mean, this is just daylight robbery. This
Speaker 1: is a woman who has had her gratitude for life
Speaker 1: somewhat stolen from her, like she's had her self love
Speaker 1: stolen from herself worth compromised. This is so unfair. This
Speaker 1: is such she's such a victim of patriarchy. I mean
Speaker 1: this with no judgment of her. The fact that women
Speaker 1: have been taught to be afraid of time and gravity
Speaker 1: something that we reddish and men, you know, we shoot
Speaker 1: men on the cover of magazines Dropped Berlin. We shoot
Speaker 1: every single tiny crevice in HD, you know. And well,
Speaker 1: first of all, what about that g Q cover with
Speaker 1: what's his face, Jonah Hill? I mean, yeah, look at
Speaker 1: they made Jonah, what about that cover? Men are congratulated
Speaker 1: just for deciding that they're sexy without if you're having
Speaker 1: to be sexy, he is quite sexy. But yeah, like
Speaker 1: it's the gray hair, the salt and pepper, Like we
Speaker 1: don't use these words for women. It's so insane, Like
Speaker 1: when I was looking at the film for Ocean Eights,
Speaker 1: for Ocean Oceans eight, you know, all of the promo
Speaker 1: came out, all of their covers came out, and they
Speaker 1: were photoshoped to the point where they all look like
Speaker 1: fucking emojis. You know it just so I didn't recognize
Speaker 1: any of these women who I grew up with, who
Speaker 1: are only like maybe five or ten years older than me,
Speaker 1: and they look younger than me, and and and we
Speaker 1: as in like us, public figures are kind of weaponized
Speaker 1: against women, like the one who just called in to
Speaker 1: think that all of us. I mean, look, first of all,
Speaker 1: what we think a fourty year old should or shouldn't
Speaker 1: look like is dictated to by media. Who owns media, men,
Speaker 1: they own the magazine. Even though there's a woman editors
Speaker 1: answering to a man the studios owned by men, film
Speaker 1: and music labels owned by men, everything, all of the
Speaker 1: social media platforms owned by men, most of the products
Speaker 1: sold to women owned by men. Men are creating this
Speaker 1: falsified standard of beauty and societal expectations that women are
Speaker 1: just being adhered to. We're eighty percent of the market,
Speaker 1: we're eighty percent of consumers, and so the only to
Speaker 1: make sure people are going to buy things, the most
Speaker 1: like fullproof way to make sure that people are going
Speaker 1: to consume is if they feel bad about themselves, as
Speaker 1: if they feel depressed. The more sad you are, the
Speaker 1: more empty you feel, the more likely you are to
Speaker 1: go and buy something that is going to fill that emptiness.
Speaker 1: And so that's why we are so targeted and manipulated
Speaker 1: to hate ourselves, spend every single day of every single
Speaker 1: minute of our lives hating ourselves and being distracted thinking
Speaker 1: about things like reversing time and gravity, which is impucking
Speaker 1: possible unless you are Kiano Reeves. Aside from him, it's impossible.
Speaker 1: And so we're being distracted and our eyes being taken
Speaker 1: off the ball of our happiness, our mental health or safety,
Speaker 1: our well being, our entrepreneurship, It doesn't like it doesn't
Speaker 1: even have to do business wise, are just our growth
Speaker 1: is being stunted by these pressures and these expectations that
Speaker 1: were created in a lab by a bunch of insecure
Speaker 1: ass whole men. On top of that, I also find
Speaker 1: it upsetting that people in privilege are used as the
Speaker 1: like with the most amount of privilege possible, are used
Speaker 1: as the standard of what everyone should look like. When
Speaker 1: we are given so much help, so much hair makeup,
Speaker 1: so the like a better quality of food, fucking facials,
Speaker 1: and and easier lifestyle and a lack of financial stress.
Speaker 1: We're not running around after four children as single mothers,
Speaker 1: like working five jobs, not having time to even sucking sleep,
Speaker 1: never mind preen ourselves the way that public figures do
Speaker 1: this frustrates me from every single angle. And I wish
Speaker 1: I could just grab this woman, especially after the last
Speaker 1: year and a half where we've realized how short life
Speaker 1: is and what privilege it is to grow older and
Speaker 1: to show signs of the life that you have been
Speaker 1: so lucky to continue to live when so many people
Speaker 1: have died so young, and just infuse her with gratitude
Speaker 1: and self love and not this hysteria around the most
Speaker 1: the most natural and inevitable thing on earth, something that
Speaker 1: we love in men. Sorry, amen, Amen, Jamila Amen. I
Speaker 1: think yeah, that is a great way to put it.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't think you should compare yourselves to
Speaker 1: us as your as your your standard bearer, because I
Speaker 1: even struggle with stuff to do because with lasers and
Speaker 1: stuff and injections, I used to do all that stuff
Speaker 1: and I really try not to do any of it
Speaker 1: anymore because it is a negative, negative spin cycle. Like
Speaker 1: it is, it's cyclical, and once you get on the ramp,
Speaker 1: it is very hard to get off of it. So
Speaker 1: if you could move into acceptance and understand that your
Speaker 1: wrinkles and that things that you don't like about yourself
Speaker 1: are a part of who you are and a part
Speaker 1: of your experience and aging. And I know that doesn't
Speaker 1: sound sexy or attractive, but it adds to your soul
Speaker 1: and it adds to your self esteem, because there's nothing
Speaker 1: hotter than having self confidence, and self confidence is something
Speaker 1: that comes from within. You don't get that from changing
Speaker 1: the way that you look, because if you change something
Speaker 1: about your neck, you're going to find something else you
Speaker 1: don't like either. And so I would just really encourage
Speaker 1: you to move into acceptance and know that that is
Speaker 1: a sign of you having a good, healthy, full life.
Speaker 1: You sound like you have your ship together, So have
Speaker 1: it together all the way around. Agreed, agreed, so agreed,
Speaker 1: Such a shame and so young, fultyish, she ful ty,
Speaker 1: so young with like four years older than me. And
Speaker 1: I would also just want to say, like, you don't
Speaker 1: have like I'm forty six. I don't like my neck either.
Speaker 1: Guess what I forgot about it a long time ago.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean, Like, I'm not gonna do
Speaker 1: anything about it. I I it doesn't matter to me
Speaker 1: that much. And maybe you're gonna say, oh, well, your
Speaker 1: neck is beautiful. Yeah. I get a lot of ship.
Speaker 1: I get a lot of facials, I get a lot
Speaker 1: of lasers. I get all of that stuff done, and
Speaker 1: they are expensive, unfortunately. But I also try to make
Speaker 1: sure that I'm not ever setting an unreal example. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to get a facelift. I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: get plastic surgery. I'm just not doing that. Ship. So
Speaker 1: you know, there are things about me that I do
Speaker 1: not like and that I just say fuck it. That's
Speaker 1: part of who you are and it's sexier to embrace
Speaker 1: it and and and forget about it because you fixate
Speaker 1: on things and then that you don't you know, And
Speaker 1: it's up to you to kind of have that mental
Speaker 1: game with yourself where you're a little bit more above it.
Speaker 1: And I think what separates people from people with lack
Speaker 1: of confidence from people with more confidence, it's just it's
Speaker 1: just a mental game. It's just like athletes being better
Speaker 1: than other athletes. You can rise above all of that
Speaker 1: and you can have your self confidence that we all have.
Speaker 1: We all have a reservoir of it. It's just whether
Speaker 1: or not you're able to tap into it. And I'm
Speaker 1: telling you that you're capable enough to tap into it.
Speaker 1: It's insane that with everything else that we're supposed to fear,
Speaker 1: you know, rape, murder, being anywhere on our own, whatsoever,
Speaker 1: everything males wearing flip flops, of men wearing flip flops.
Speaker 1: On top of that, we're supposed to fear elbow fat
Speaker 1: and armpit rolls and our next. No one ever looks
Speaker 1: at our next, No one cares about our next. Our
Speaker 1: next have nothing to do with anything other than keeping
Speaker 1: our head up above our bodies. Like earlobe plasty. I
Speaker 1: feel like that was just like I knew the pandemic
Speaker 1: was coming and the world was going to end as
Speaker 1: soon as they invented earlobe plasty. The fun. Who the
Speaker 1: funk cares about our fucking airlobes. It's so it's so frustrating,
Speaker 1: it's so frustrating. We're bleaching our ur holes where I
Speaker 1: personally refused to participate in any of it. I had
Speaker 1: my breast reduced because of back pain when I was younger,
Speaker 1: and it's not because I don't have any insecurities. I've
Speaker 1: got body dysmorphia and a fucking eating sort of twenty
Speaker 1: years I'm covered in scars from head to turb my
Speaker 1: body because of my disability. I I just cannot say.
Speaker 1: I'm such a stubborn bitch that I know that there
Speaker 1: are a small group of men profiting from myself hatred,
Speaker 1: and so every time I go and pay them for
Speaker 1: the hatred that they infused me with, I would feel
Speaker 1: like I'm betraying myself. It's not like a it's not
Speaker 1: I'm not on a pedestal, you know here, or like
Speaker 1: just sitting here like on my soapbox, fucking ranting everyone.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying that someone is profiting from every moment
Speaker 1: that you spend shipping on the way that you look,
Speaker 1: or obsessing over the way you're probably magnifying. I bet
Speaker 1: there's nothing. I bet there's no excess skin on her
Speaker 1: chin from all the way that she's talking. Sounds like
Speaker 1: all of my friends who are my age, who are
Speaker 1: all talking about these things that I cannot see when
Speaker 1: they're pointing them out to me. We have been given
Speaker 1: like a psychosis around our appearance. And that's because of fucking, fucking,
Speaker 1: fucking fucking filtering and photoshop that has made us think
Speaker 1: that these things don't exist, and we're all supposed to
Speaker 1: look like KaiA Gerber forever. We're not supposed to look
Speaker 1: like KaiA Gerber forever or ever. And that's okay, that's good.
Speaker 1: Variety is hot. Older women are Yeah, older women are
Speaker 1: all the women that I'm attracted to or older than me. Yeah.
Speaker 1: All right, Well, I hope that settles your question. And
Speaker 1: I hope that yeah. Yeah. I keep us posted and
Speaker 1: and let us know if you got over yourself. Can
Speaker 1: I can I just quickly add one thing as well, Chelsea,
Speaker 1: tell me if you agree with this, can we suggest
Speaker 1: just to try this for anyone out there. This is
Speaker 1: what I did when when I hit my peak of
Speaker 1: self hatred, I decided to try an experiment of taking
Speaker 1: all the money that I wanted to spend on things
Speaker 1: that we're going to, you know, quote unquote fix my appearance,
Speaker 1: and I put it in an actual piggy bank and
Speaker 1: put that money towards therapy instead. I decided to fix
Speaker 1: the inside rather than try to fix my outside for
Speaker 1: everyone else. I'm not a motherfucking billboard for everyone else
Speaker 1: to appreciate. I'm a human being. I deserve a good
Speaker 1: human experience on this earth. Sorry to interrupt, Oh no,
Speaker 1: I appreciate the interruption. And on that note, we are
Speaker 1: going to take a quick break so you can hear
Speaker 1: and add and then we'll be right back. Jamila, do
Speaker 1: you have a question for me. That's a new thing
Speaker 1: we're doing. We're having asked me a surprise question. You
Speaker 1: struck me a really long time ago, Like I was
Speaker 1: back in England when I first became aware of you
Speaker 1: years and years ago, and you were just so different
Speaker 1: to everyone else on the television. It felt like you
Speaker 1: were not dictated by whether or not people approved of you,
Speaker 1: and I was wondering if that's something that you really
Speaker 1: genuinely feel on the inside, like an indifference to other
Speaker 1: people's opinions of how you're supposed to live, And if so,
Speaker 1: where does that come from. Yeah, I tend to give
Speaker 1: off the vibe that I don't have high regard for
Speaker 1: other people's opinions of me. And I would have to
Speaker 1: say at that point in my life, when I was
Speaker 1: doing Chelsea Lately, I did not have regard for what
Speaker 1: people thought of me. That didn't occur to me. I
Speaker 1: just thought, I'm having a great time, Let's look at
Speaker 1: the people around me. I was very present in what
Speaker 1: I was doing. I definitely did go through about of
Speaker 1: insecurity and self consciousness later on, probably or five six
Speaker 1: years ago. I think when I when I left Netflix
Speaker 1: and I left my TV shows, and that was had
Speaker 1: been my identity for so long, and the regard that
Speaker 1: people had for me felt like it was shifting, when
Speaker 1: really it was my regard for myself because I didn't
Speaker 1: have the things that defined me in that way. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm not i'm not married, I don't have a family.
Speaker 1: And that was when I decided to go into therapy,
Speaker 1: when I started to feel and to care what other
Speaker 1: people how they perceived me. Was when I knew I
Speaker 1: had lost the plot a little bit. You know, I
Speaker 1: just thought, wait, wait, wait, this isn't who you are,
Speaker 1: This isn't you're not this isn't fierce, this isn't strong,
Speaker 1: this is actually I felt very weak in a way,
Speaker 1: which isn't okay feeling to have as long as your
Speaker 1: solution oriented about it. You know, I didn't want to
Speaker 1: live in that weakness or that insecurity. It felt foreign
Speaker 1: to me and I didn't like feeling that way. I
Speaker 1: didn't like thinking about what people thought about me. So
Speaker 1: it was a lot of work to get back to
Speaker 1: what I thought about myself, because that's really what it
Speaker 1: comes down to, is how how do you revere yourself? Right?
Speaker 1: You know? And do you revere yourself? And I got
Speaker 1: back to that place, you know, what other people think
Speaker 1: of me, it can bother me, but it's not where
Speaker 1: I live, and I don't I don't spend a lot
Speaker 1: of time scrolling through comments about people who don't like me.
Speaker 1: I don't spend a lot of time thinking about the
Speaker 1: people that say no to me. You know, if you're
Speaker 1: pitching a show and you get an offer from one place,
Speaker 1: so many people can focus on all the people that
Speaker 1: say no, when in reality, all we all ever need
Speaker 1: in life is one person to say yes. You just
Speaker 1: need the one Yes. You just need to have chemistry
Speaker 1: and fall in love with one person. Know, you don't
Speaker 1: have to feel that way from everybody. You don't have
Speaker 1: to have everybody love you, And it's not a realistic
Speaker 1: endeavor anyway. So I would say, yes, what you saw
Speaker 1: was real, But I'm not somebody who has never suffered
Speaker 1: from insecurity or self consciousness. You know, I have and
Speaker 1: I didn't like that either. So I made sure to
Speaker 1: kind of dig my way out of that with therapy,
Speaker 1: which is what I did, and now I'm in a
Speaker 1: much different place. But yeah, you know, I definitely care
Speaker 1: what people think to a degree. I just don't let
Speaker 1: that be my north star. Yeah, I don't want to
Speaker 1: hurt anyone, but I couldn't really give a funk whether
Speaker 1: or not anyone likes me. I hate everyone, so like,
Speaker 1: no one has to like me, right right? It's not
Speaker 1: a yeah. I've also I also have this new philosophy
Speaker 1: that I've been subscribing to is that I don't need
Speaker 1: someone to like me. In order for me to like them,
Speaker 1: because that used to be a barometer for me. Like
Speaker 1: if I if I didn't like someone, I found out
Speaker 1: they were a big fan, I'm like, oh, I do
Speaker 1: like them. It's like no, no, no, no, that's not
Speaker 1: how it works. You don't just like people because they
Speaker 1: like you. I decide who I fucking like and who
Speaker 1: I don't like. And just because someone doesn't like me,
Speaker 1: does it preclude me from liking them. I like that.
Speaker 1: It's a good flo doesn't matter for me whether they
Speaker 1: like me or not. I normally don't like them, don't. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that's I think that's a common I think
Speaker 1: that's a common feeling for a lot of people. You're
Speaker 1: not very liberating. I think if we really ask ourselves,
Speaker 1: like do we like everyone? Know that? Why do we
Speaker 1: expect everyone to like us? This ship is mutual? I
Speaker 1: think we need to exhibit more reciprocity of just like
Speaker 1: sometimes I'm talking to someone, you know, like when you're
Speaker 1: trying to be polite or you're trying and then you've realized,
Speaker 1: like you're talking to somebody and you're trying to be
Speaker 1: polite and you're trying to engage with them. And then
Speaker 1: you're thinking, why, why the funk am I going making
Speaker 1: all this effort for someone that I'll never ever see again,
Speaker 1: just so that they can have a good experience with me?
Speaker 1: And I want to leave them with a good feeling.
Speaker 1: That's okay, but I don't wanna You know, why am
Speaker 1: I bending over backwards for a stranger? And know what
Speaker 1: I do? What? So? I learned this from a guy
Speaker 1: at a party. When you join a conversation of a
Speaker 1: social function, which I almost never go to because I
Speaker 1: am such an introvert and hermit, But when I do
Speaker 1: find myself one of those, as soon as I clocked
Speaker 1: the conversation is not interesting, you just smile and point
Speaker 1: your fingers and then moonwalk out of the conversation, just
Speaker 1: in a quite a cheerful way, and everyone's so confused
Speaker 1: by what's happened that they don't feel bad about themselves
Speaker 1: or rejected. So if anyone else would like to utilize that,
Speaker 1: moon walking out of a conversation is actually the perfect
Speaker 1: exit when you're bored. Yeah, but I have to learn
Speaker 1: how to moonwalk then, and I have no rhythm. I'm
Speaker 1: I have no you know who has rhythm? Though? My
Speaker 1: boyfriend he can teach me how to moonwork. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: I'm glad you don't get I guess the real question.
Speaker 1: The answer to my question is that you don't give
Speaker 1: a ship what people think about you. The answer to
Speaker 1: your question to me is that you don't give a
Speaker 1: ship when people think about you. So that's good. It
Speaker 1: was a process. There was a process we're taught from
Speaker 1: as soon as we can understand that women have to
Speaker 1: be liked by everyone. Even though everyone's got such individual
Speaker 1: tastes and needs, we have to meet all of them
Speaker 1: and it just feels like an exhausting, impossible task. So
Speaker 1: let's just try and please ourselves. Yeah, Jamilla, you really
Speaker 1: brought it today. We have some like experts and doctors
Speaker 1: that call in and I mean, you've fucking killed it.
Speaker 1: You're better than all of those people. I mean, you
Speaker 1: really know your ship? No I do. I do. I
Speaker 1: just adore you. I love your Instagram. If you guys
Speaker 1: don't follow Jamilla, please do. It's at Jamilla Jamil am.
Speaker 1: I saying it right, Jamala Jamil. It's at Jamia Jamale
Speaker 1: official on Instagram. Because of a six year old young
Speaker 1: boy from Syria took my real name. So that's fine.
Speaker 1: He can have, isn't that always the way? That's the
Speaker 1: least we can do for him. And I want to
Speaker 1: thank you for coming on today and thank you for
Speaker 1: imparting your wisdom with us and to us and to
Speaker 1: our callers. And I hope that I get to see
Speaker 1: you again in person to same. Well. Look, this wisdom
Speaker 1: comes from thirty six years of immense and repeated failure.
Speaker 1: So at least I've done it so that you don't
Speaker 1: have to to anyone listening, I fucked it all up already. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I would love to see you soon. Hopefully we're both
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles, I think, so let's find each other
Speaker 1: when all this for sure, we will for sure. Well,
Speaker 1: it's been an absolute pleasure. I appreciate you taking the time,
Speaker 1: and I want to let you go now, and yes,
Speaker 1: hit me up and then let me know when you
Speaker 1: want me to come on any of your podcast honey,
Speaker 1: and I would be happy to Bye, Okay, have a
Speaker 1: great day, Bye bye, Catherine, Bye, Thanks, thank you, bye bye.
Speaker 1: And if you have a question, or you and a
Speaker 1: loved one have a question, please write into Dear Chelsea
Speaker 1: Project at gmail dot com. Oh, and everybody, I am
Speaker 1: picking back up my vaccinated and horny tour. If you
Speaker 1: don't have tickets, please get them Chelsea handler dot com.
Speaker 1: So please get your tickets. I can't wait to see everybody.
Speaker 1: Okay guys, thanks,