1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:03,840 Speaker 1: Our special guest today is Jamila Jamil. You know her 2 00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:05,400 Speaker 1: from the Good Place. You know her from the new 3 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:08,479 Speaker 1: show on HBO Max Legendary. She's an actor, she's a host, 4 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:11,719 Speaker 1: and she's an advocate for disability rights, l g b 5 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:16,480 Speaker 1: t Q rights, body neutrality, and her work as founder 6 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:19,480 Speaker 1: of the I WE Community. So let's start off tell 7 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:22,800 Speaker 1: our listeners about I WE community. So I WE Community 8 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: was something I started originally because I kept on seeing 9 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 1: photographs of famous women with numbers written across their bodies. 10 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: And those numbers aren't how many awards they want, how 11 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 1: many things they've achieved, how much money they've even learned, 12 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:34,320 Speaker 1: if that's something that's an important metric is definitely one 13 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: that we consider important in men. It was how much 14 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: they weigh on a weighing scale in kilograms or pounds. 15 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: And I just couldn't believe that in twenty years after 16 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 1: I first developed neating disorder, that is still we are 17 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 1: still confirming my greatest fear that a number on a 18 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:51,599 Speaker 1: scale determines my worth in society. So one day I 19 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 1: was piste off and I wrote, you know what, I 20 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 1: fucking weigh my orgasms, my relationship with my boyfriend, my 21 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 1: social justice work, my fine sure independence, my social dependence, 22 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 1: the eating disorder I've overcome. I weigh the some of 23 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 1: my mother fucking parts. I just tweeted it out at 24 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:07,760 Speaker 1: a very small following on the Internet, and for some 25 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 1: reason it just resonated and within three days I had 26 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 1: ten thou responses from women all over the world telling 27 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:15,039 Speaker 1: me what they weigh in those same metrics. So I 28 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 1: started an Instagram account. I thought it would be like 29 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:19,319 Speaker 1: the ice Bucket Challenge, it would just be a short phase. 30 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 1: But now we are three years later. We have almost 31 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: one and a half million followers on Instagram. We have 32 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 1: a podcast, and we have three bills that we're trying 33 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:28,319 Speaker 1: to get emotion I just spoke at the Supreme Court 34 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 1: regarding looking after the mental health of young people when 35 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 1: it comes to body image and diet culture. But also 36 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 1: it's now turned into a social justice based like a 37 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 1: starting point for people. I think a lot of people 38 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: want to get involved in social justice, especially in the 39 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 1: last year and a half, and they don't know where 40 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 1: to start, and it's not super welcoming space. You know, 41 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 1: even amongst the left, amongst liberals, there's that kind of 42 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 1: common saying about us that we're looking for We're looking 43 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 1: for traitors and not converts. And I do feel as 44 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 1: though that's how social media really feels. That it's not 45 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 1: a safe space to do your learning, to admit that 46 00:01:57,440 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 1: you don't have all of the answers, and I think 47 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 1: that's really sad because it devalues progress. So I decided 48 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 1: to turn my way into a space where wherever the 49 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 1: funk you're at in your knowledge, we don't care. We're 50 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 1: not here to judge you. We're just so excited that 51 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:11,399 Speaker 1: you want to learn. And I'm ignorant as I don't 52 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 1: know buck about ship and so I'm bringing on these 53 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 1: experts of all different ages and backgrounds to educate me, 54 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 1: and then you learn with me. I'm not here to 55 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 1: tell anyone what to do. I'm just here to be 56 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:24,520 Speaker 1: the kind of mediator or you know you're I would 57 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:26,080 Speaker 1: just like to be a part of your starting point 58 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 1: because I've got so much growth to do, and I 59 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 1: don't believe in doing that stuff privately and presenting this 60 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:33,080 Speaker 1: image of being this kind of deity. I believe in 61 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:36,240 Speaker 1: showing your mistakes and showing your vulnerability and being open 62 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 1: that learning is cool and something that we should actively 63 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:41,399 Speaker 1: encourage each other to do until the day that we die. 64 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:44,800 Speaker 1: So I weigh as a it's a community for learning 65 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:46,800 Speaker 1: about how to be, you know, how to show up 66 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:49,959 Speaker 1: better for each other. Well, I just climaxed from all that. 67 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 1: So impressive, so impressive, and just so great. I fucking 68 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 1: love it. I love it all. I love it all. 69 00:02:56,880 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 1: And the Instagram handle for I way is just I way. 70 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:03,080 Speaker 1: It's a I underscore w E I g H. And 71 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 1: the podcast is one of my favorite things I've ever 72 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 1: been a part of. I've learned so much. I would 73 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: love you to come onto the podcast sometimes, and are 74 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 1: you kidding? Any time? Any time? I'd be happy to Okay, great, well, 75 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 1: then perfect, This is the perfect time to get started. 76 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:20,400 Speaker 1: First of all, I want to talk to you about 77 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:22,360 Speaker 1: how we met. We have a lot in comments, so 78 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:25,080 Speaker 1: I was excited to find out that we're represented by 79 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 1: the same publicist. So I reached out to you right 80 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 1: away because I know you came up to me somewhere 81 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:33,920 Speaker 1: and introduced yourself once at some event. I don't remember. 82 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 1: Do you remember where it was? I have no idea somewhere, 83 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 1: but I'm a big fan of telling women when I 84 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: love them, and I think it's because of how much 85 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 1: ship we do here. It's not to say that you 86 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 1: don't have many millions of people who tell you that 87 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 1: they love you, but women tend to get a lot 88 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 1: of ships, sometimes from each other, but just generally from 89 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: the mass public. And so I take it upon myself 90 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 1: that when I adore someone, I just want to go 91 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: and tell them. I remember it was it was Netflix 92 00:03:56,600 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 1: just for laughs or something like that. Maybe yeah, special 93 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 1: that we did where they made us dance in between 94 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 1: one line of jokes and I wanted to jump off 95 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 1: the balcony. I don't think I would have done. I 96 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 1: don't think that was where we met, because I don't 97 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 1: think I did Netflix as a joke. I wouldn't have 98 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 1: agreed to dance anywhere on television because I have no rhythm. 99 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 1: It was something where it was like a throwback of 100 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 1: a sixt show. Jay Leno was there and Tiffany Haddish 101 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:24,600 Speaker 1: and Billy Crystal and Margaret Show. Oh. It was like 102 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:29,040 Speaker 1: it was like a telethon. It was a charity charity telethon, 103 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 1: like throw back and that makes sense out of like 104 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 1: cardboard boxes and tell one liners. It was the It 105 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: was the oddest experience of my life. Right, It's so funny. 106 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:42,720 Speaker 1: All of those things just blend together at a certain point, 107 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 1: aren't they. You just don't even know where you were, 108 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:47,679 Speaker 1: what event it was. It's just all It's also stupid. 109 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 1: But anyway, I love your Instagram, I love your messaging. 110 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:56,280 Speaker 1: I love everything you say about women and respecting yourself 111 00:04:56,480 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 1: and being positive and calling people out when are negative 112 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 1: towards women, which is such a toxic culture, which is 113 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 1: the very reason we are in this situation that we 114 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:09,919 Speaker 1: are in in a global way but also in a 115 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:14,159 Speaker 1: more micro United States fucked up way, where men are 116 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 1: resisting the moment we're in because they don't seem to 117 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 1: grasp the seriousness of the situation, and they don't realize 118 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 1: that their role in this situation is prolonging the conversation 119 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:29,280 Speaker 1: instead of shortening it. You know, what could have been 120 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:33,279 Speaker 1: a conversation has turned into a culture war because men 121 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:37,479 Speaker 1: can't collectively say wow, they want to take it so personally. 122 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:41,720 Speaker 1: It's like, listen, we're not talking about you specifically, every 123 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 1: single time, we're talking about men as a collective have 124 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:47,599 Speaker 1: made a lot of bad mistakes, and you are a 125 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 1: product of a structure that was created long before you 126 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:54,160 Speaker 1: were here, but that you're still benefiting from. And now 127 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 1: we have to change everyone's kind of you know, you 128 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 1: have to dismantle your understanding of what societal structure and 129 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:08,279 Speaker 1: falsehoods are and start appreciating and respecting the fact that women, 130 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 1: among many other marginalized groups have been subjugated since the 131 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: beginning of time for the benefit of white men, and 132 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:18,280 Speaker 1: so the treatment of women has to change. And I 133 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:24,360 Speaker 1: get so frustrated when I see them resisting that, when 134 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:28,040 Speaker 1: I see men asking stupid questions instead of really thinking 135 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:31,039 Speaker 1: about how they can affect change and how they can 136 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 1: respect women more, and how that can just have a 137 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 1: ripple effect. You know, if every man just did a 138 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 1: little bit extra and tried, you don't even have to 139 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 1: believe what you're saying in the beginning. Just start doing it, 140 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:45,920 Speaker 1: you know, out of respect for history and the way 141 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 1: things have been. And anyway, I think that I know 142 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 1: you touch on a lot of different subjects on your Instagram, 143 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:53,599 Speaker 1: but I think we're like minded in the fact that 144 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 1: it's a frustrating conversation to have to constantly remind people 145 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 1: that something is inappropriate or not an official Yeah, I 146 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: totally hear you. I agree with everything you just said, 147 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:05,600 Speaker 1: But also I think it's important to point out that 148 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:08,840 Speaker 1: men don't just benefit from patriarchy. Men are also very 149 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 1: harmed by patriarchy. Patriarchy did quite a big number on 150 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 1: men like you. You can see it in the suicide stats. 151 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 1: Like it's not it might be statistically benefiting them in 152 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 1: terms of like economics and you know, social status, etcetera, 153 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: in every way more so than us, But their suicide 154 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 1: rates are just getting higher and higher and younger and younger, 155 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 1: and so this is harming them. They are hurting themselves, 156 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 1: they are hurting each other, and then it's that toxicity 157 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 1: that then spills out over onto the rest of us. 158 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 1: And so it wouldn't just benefit us for them to 159 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 1: start to deconstruct patriarchy and that hierarchy. It's it's it's 160 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 1: actually going to benefit all of them. It would benefit 161 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 1: our humanity as a whole for us to unpick this 162 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 1: like toxic, very formulaic and constructed ideal of gender, do 163 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Yeah, I think it's all 164 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 1: ships rise with the tide, right, you know, think of 165 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 1: it as a zero sum game, and it's like, no, 166 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 1: if everybody's treated a little bit better. We're all going 167 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 1: to be a little bit better, including men themselves, and 168 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 1: we can obviously see. You know. I just had a 169 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 1: conversation with a friend of mine and her husband, because 170 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 1: I like to get involved in people's interpersonal relationships. And she, 171 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 1: she was my friend, said oh, I don't think they 172 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 1: talk at all. And I said, are you talking to him? 173 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 1: You know, like, are you guys talking? And she's like, 174 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 1: we don't have that much to say to each other 175 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:33,200 Speaker 1: because the kids are, you know, have been taking up 176 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: our time for the last ten years, which is a 177 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:37,680 Speaker 1: very common situation. And so I talked to him, you know, 178 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: one on one, and I said, hey, you know, like 179 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 1: you know, the kids are growing up, you guys are 180 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 1: gonna have to get to know each other again, Like 181 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 1: you're gonna have to start spending time together again. You know, 182 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 1: how do you want to do that? Like how do 183 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:48,960 Speaker 1: you want to rekindle and remember the reason you got 184 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 1: together in the first place. And I said, do you 185 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 1: want to maybe go to therapy with her? And he walked. 186 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:56,559 Speaker 1: I mean, I hadn't seen a male reaction to going 187 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:59,079 Speaker 1: to therapy like that in a really long time, probably 188 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:01,080 Speaker 1: because I live in l a And everybody goes to therapy, 189 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:04,559 Speaker 1: you know, so nobody cares. But his reaction was so 190 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:06,960 Speaker 1: scary to me because he went, I'm not going to therapy. 191 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:10,720 Speaker 1: I'm not. That's it's so stupid, that's whatever. You know, 192 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 1: they all say the same thing. And I'm like, well, 193 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: have you ever been to therapy? And he's like no, 194 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 1: And I go, well, then how do you know they're 195 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 1: all saying the same thing, and he goes, I'm not 196 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 1: doing that, And I just thought, Okay, obviously that's not 197 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 1: a boulder that I'm gonna be able to push up hill. 198 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 1: But how sad like, how sad to be that shut down, 199 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:33,680 Speaker 1: And that's scared of what you would discover if you 200 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:36,560 Speaker 1: had to tap into your own emotions, because that's really 201 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 1: what we're talking about here, is the fear of a 202 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:42,599 Speaker 1: man being able to be vulnerable, being able to say 203 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 1: this was my trauma, or this is what screwed me 204 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: up and and this happened to me, or my father 205 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:50,840 Speaker 1: did this to me or whatever it's. It's it is 206 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 1: so toxic, and it breads and it's a cycle that 207 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 1: you're passing on to your children. And so it's so 208 00:09:57,040 --> 00:10:00,040 Speaker 1: important for men to be able to live in a 209 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 1: different way than they've been living. You know, the idea 210 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 1: that they're in charge and they have to take care 211 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 1: of women and that they have to prove their masculinity 212 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 1: over and over again is so passe. Even like if 213 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:14,320 Speaker 1: you look at some of the countries where they have 214 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 1: the least, even the countries that tend to be the 215 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 1: poorest a lot of the time, other countries that don't 216 00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 1: allow women to work and don't allow women equal positions. 217 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 1: So it's like it's it's just harming men. It's so nonsense. 218 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 1: It's so illogical to deny one half of the world 219 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 1: basic rights equality and then also to deny yourself the 220 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 1: chance of being able to share all of that, to 221 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:38,960 Speaker 1: be able to share the way that you feel, share 222 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:41,479 Speaker 1: all of your thoughts, share your trauma, share your workload, 223 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 1: share your life. I think it's incredibly depressing. I also 224 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 1: think there's a tremendous lack of friendship between men and 225 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:51,559 Speaker 1: women that is still kind of perpetuated in today's culture. 226 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 1: We still don't really have much discourse around friendships to 227 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 1: men and women. I don't think men see themselves as 228 00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 1: valuable to women outside of being lovers, outside of being 229 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:03,199 Speaker 1: foragers and so well, we've got postmates, you know what 230 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 1: I mean. We don't fucking need men anymore for that. 231 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 1: Like we've got doors and locks and gates, so we 232 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 1: don't need them to protect us anymore. From a saber 233 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:14,320 Speaker 1: to fucking tiger. We are self sufficient. We can now 234 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:17,200 Speaker 1: have babies without men. There's there's almost nothing that those 235 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 1: of us who have the privilege of, for example, being 236 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:21,840 Speaker 1: in the West or certain Eastern countries, those of us 237 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:24,559 Speaker 1: who have our own autonomy, who are granted that autonomy, 238 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 1: don't need them. And they don't see that there's so 239 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 1: much value in the companionship, in the in the partnership, 240 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 1: in the friendship, in the work relationship of of genders 241 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:38,440 Speaker 1: coming together. I think it's sad that they feel like 242 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 1: we must need them for them to have value. Why 243 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 1: can't we just want them or enjoy them, or just 244 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:46,679 Speaker 1: coexist alongside them. Maybe not. And you would think it 245 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 1: would be a celebrate. You would think men would be like, Oh, 246 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:53,959 Speaker 1: here's an independent, strong, fierce woman that's sexy and heart 247 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 1: and unfortunately most men are intimidated by that. Most men 248 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:00,560 Speaker 1: are intimidated by a woman that and take care of 249 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 1: herself and say okay, instead of celebrating the fact that 250 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:09,840 Speaker 1: a person has personhood and individuality, it becomes a threat, 251 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 1: which is also just such a bummer. And men shouldn't 252 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 1: feel that burden. They shouldn't feel the burden that they 253 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 1: have to take care of the world. We're here to 254 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:18,880 Speaker 1: help you take care of the world, and you know 255 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 1: we can. We can do just as good of a job. 256 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:23,840 Speaker 1: And we should all be working in concert, not against 257 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 1: each other. They have an exhausting worldview, and I feel 258 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 1: I feel very relieved. In some ways, I feel very 259 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:30,440 Speaker 1: resentful that it wasn't born a man because of how 260 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:32,840 Speaker 1: difficult it is to be a woman. But in other ways, 261 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 1: I feel relieved that I don't have to Like I 262 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 1: don't have to slowly grow into a nuclear bomb. You know, 263 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 1: you don't have to murder somebody. Yeah, I don't have 264 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:44,440 Speaker 1: all of that repressed. I'm not being told you. My 265 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:46,959 Speaker 1: boyfriend is a very sensitive musician, and he had to 266 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:50,080 Speaker 1: call out Pitchfork a couple of years ago for referring 267 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:52,440 Speaker 1: to his music as sad boy music like this is 268 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 1: just it's such a coded, reductive term for someone who's 269 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 1: truly just singing about his feelings and they're not all 270 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 1: sad songs. Some of them are about his depression, some 271 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 1: of them are about different things that you know, he 272 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 1: just writes about all the kind of spectrum of his 273 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 1: feelings and immediately gets categorized just because he's not saying 274 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 1: like terrible derogatory things about women as a sad boy, 275 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 1: a grown man talking about his feelings explicitly, there's a 276 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:23,079 Speaker 1: sad little boy like it's very, very dangerous that I 277 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:25,440 Speaker 1: think that was two thousand and seventeen or eighteen, that 278 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 1: that's still the language we have around a man who's 279 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 1: just confident in being who he really is. Also, men 280 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 1: need to understand how attractive that is to us. So 281 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:39,440 Speaker 1: when we see men being vulnerable, when we see men, 282 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 1: I mean, my boyfriend right now says things to me 283 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 1: that I can't. I'm like, I'm going to write a 284 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:46,240 Speaker 1: book about everything you say to me, as a handbook 285 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 1: for what every man should say to every woman. I 286 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 1: told him the other day that I found cellulated on 287 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 1: my arm. He goes, that's so sexy. Every woman who 288 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:54,839 Speaker 1: has cellulate is so sexy. That's what makes you a woman. 289 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:57,720 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my god, that makes me want to 290 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:00,560 Speaker 1: fuck you. You know when men say things like that, 291 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:02,720 Speaker 1: And they had to the other night. We're in New 292 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 1: York City and I said, oh God, we gotta go 293 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:07,080 Speaker 1: get tampons. It was like two in the morning. He's like, 294 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:09,040 Speaker 1: you're not buying tampons. He goes, I'll go get them. 295 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 1: He goes, You've been buying tampons your whole life. I 296 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:15,360 Speaker 1: never want you to buy tampons again. Thank God, I 297 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 1: love you. And when you come back, I'm gonna stick 298 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 1: that damp on somewhere. God. Wait, Chelsea, can you hear 299 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 1: that all of your listeners just collectively came at the 300 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 1: same time. They all climax at the same time every episode, 301 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 1: which brings us to my next subject, Jamala. What we 302 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 1: do on this podcast is we give advice to callers 303 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 1: on whatever subject matter is like kind of curtailed for 304 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 1: your visit. Since you're our guest today and we know 305 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:40,480 Speaker 1: what you're passionate about. We have people who call it 306 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 1: and these are real people, and this is like this 307 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 1: podcast is gives me so much pleasure because I can 308 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 1: actually dole out advice to people who want it instead 309 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 1: of it being unsolicited. You know, I'm gonna take a 310 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:53,280 Speaker 1: quick break, Jamale We're gonna take a quick break and 311 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 1: we will be right back, and we are going to 312 00:14:55,240 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 1: hear from some colors. So Catherine, our reducer, Katherine, say hello, Hello, Hi, Hi, Hi. 313 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 1: Let's go into a couple of collars so we can 314 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 1: get that taken care of. Fabulous. Does that sound good? 315 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 1: So listen, what do we have coming down the pike? Okay? 316 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 1: This first question comes from Peter. Dear Chelsea, I'm a 317 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 1: thirty five year old man living in Ohio with my 318 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 1: partner of nine years. Were married. Recently, my husband lost 319 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 1: over sixty pounds. He's lost the weight through diet and exercise, 320 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 1: which is great, but now it's come to the point 321 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:30,560 Speaker 1: where he never wants to go out to eat because 322 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 1: he wants to eat the exact same meal every day, 323 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: and he works out several more than two times a day. 324 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 1: He's stopped drinking and partaking in edibles as well. I 325 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 1: originally was fine with it, as he was doing it 326 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 1: the healthy way, but now I'm getting bored and worried. 327 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 1: I like to go out to eat, have margarita's, have fun. 328 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 1: He no longer participates unless there's exercise involved because he 329 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: quote can't manage his intake not to mention. I fell 330 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 1: in love with him not despite his big bare body, 331 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:03,040 Speaker 1: but because of it. Now he just wants to be 332 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 1: as skinny as possible. I'm worried the diet has gone 333 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 1: too far, and I'm concerned about his health. I have 334 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 1: attempted to have a conversation with him about the eating habits, 335 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:14,080 Speaker 1: to which he says he's doing it in a healthy way, 336 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 1: and his doctor has also confirmed that for him. I 337 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 1: love him so dearly and of course want what is 338 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 1: best for him. I can't talk him into joining me 339 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 1: for therapy. What do I do, Peter? Oh, God, Jamila, 340 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 1: let's get your thoughts on that. Hi. Hi, Hi, Nice 341 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 1: to meet Hi. Nice to meet you too. Wow. God, 342 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 1: that's such an interesting predicament that you're having. I mean, obviously, 343 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:41,040 Speaker 1: I don't want to pretend that I am any kind 344 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 1: of doctor here, but I would say that from everything 345 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 1: I know from my own personal experience and about nineteen 346 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 1: years working in activism for the Space, it sounds like 347 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 1: at least orthorexia developing, which is kind of like a 348 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 1: fear of food, fear around food, and definitely disordered eating. 349 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 1: I think that that sounds really really complicated and tricky 350 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:04,400 Speaker 1: to watch, and then also frustrating because doctors are so 351 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 1: fast to congratulate weight loss, regardless of how it has 352 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:09,920 Speaker 1: been achieved, or how fast it's been achieved, or whether 353 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:14,040 Speaker 1: or not that method is attainable. Doctors are so obsessively 354 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 1: fat phobic, and they're taught to be so from medical 355 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 1: school onwards. So it's really hard to have someone who's 356 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:24,160 Speaker 1: kind of seen as a authority in that area congratulate 357 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:26,639 Speaker 1: or condone that behavior. And also it's not guaranteed that 358 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:30,240 Speaker 1: your partner is being fully honest with his anxiety around food. 359 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 1: I think after such a long time together, I think 360 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:37,920 Speaker 1: you owe it to yourself and your partner to be 361 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:40,000 Speaker 1: honest with them about your concerns. Have you, I mean, 362 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:42,439 Speaker 1: you've voiced your concerns already, haven't you. Have you stressed 363 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 1: those concerns? Yeah, as in a as nice as they can. Anyway, 364 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:51,960 Speaker 1: he's sort of avoidance attachment style, so like he doesn't 365 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 1: like to actually talk about issues like this. So when 366 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 1: we're eating the same thing every single day, it's the 367 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:00,879 Speaker 1: same meal every single day, I might let's mix it up, 368 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 1: Let's try something else, even if it's just like a 369 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 1: variation of the type of food that we're eating. He's like, no, 370 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:09,360 Speaker 1: I know this works for me, and I know, like 371 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:12,600 Speaker 1: my doctor has told me that this is working. So 372 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:15,720 Speaker 1: it's more so I'm treading very lightly. Yeah, which is 373 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 1: not a fun place to be for you at all. 374 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:19,440 Speaker 1: I get it. I get it. First of all, nobody 375 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:21,199 Speaker 1: wants to eat the same thing every day, So why 376 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:23,119 Speaker 1: you have to eat the same thing every day is 377 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:27,119 Speaker 1: it doesn't really make any sense. His avoidance, though, is 378 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:29,320 Speaker 1: a big issue too. I mean, if he can't discuss it, 379 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:31,720 Speaker 1: then there is a situation, you know, Otherwise it would 380 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:35,120 Speaker 1: be easier to have a conversation around it. I would 381 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:38,160 Speaker 1: urge you and Jamila, I'm interested to hear what you think, 382 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:39,840 Speaker 1: but I would urge you to press him on this, 383 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:42,280 Speaker 1: you know, because this is having an impact on you now. 384 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 1: So he's not just having an impact on his own 385 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 1: life and using his doctor as his crutch for doing 386 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:51,439 Speaker 1: everything right. Isn't enough, Like that's great that his doctor 387 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:54,119 Speaker 1: thinks that, But you're his lover, what do you think. 388 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:57,200 Speaker 1: You know, he's obviously lost the weight he and he's 389 00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 1: obsessing about it and not participating in any of the 390 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 1: activities that you find fun or the socializing that you 391 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:06,120 Speaker 1: find fun, which has created a chasm in your relationship, 392 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 1: and that's not deniable because you're you're feeling this way. 393 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:13,119 Speaker 1: So he can pretend he doesn't want to talk about it, 394 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 1: or he can feel like he doesn't want to talk 395 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 1: about it, but you want to talk about it, and 396 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 1: I would impress it upon you to make that happen, 397 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 1: you know, to make your feelings heard and your voice heard. 398 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 1: Of course, you want to support his health, but not 399 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 1: at the expense of your relationship. No, And I mean 400 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:31,200 Speaker 1: it's I've never had a call in advice section where 401 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:33,479 Speaker 1: I'm actually face to face with the person writing in, 402 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:36,479 Speaker 1: So I tend to be deeply ruthless in my advice 403 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:38,879 Speaker 1: and that's harder to do to your extremely angelic face. 404 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:43,400 Speaker 1: But but fuck it, right, I have lived a very long, 405 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:47,600 Speaker 1: very hard life, and I have a pretty brutal stance 406 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 1: on someone not being willing to investigate something that is 407 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 1: problematic for me as someone they share the home space with. 408 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 1: So if someone wasn't willing to go to therapy when 409 00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 1: they are exhibiting signs of something that is definitely troubling 410 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:04,639 Speaker 1: and something that is impacting me negatively, if they're not 411 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 1: willing to even come to therapy with me and to 412 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:09,920 Speaker 1: investigate it with an expert other than they're very enabling, 413 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:12,959 Speaker 1: probably quite fatphobic doctor. Then I would take that as 414 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 1: a sign that my happiness and my feeling of safety 415 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 1: or joy in a relationship isn't a priority to them, 416 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:23,160 Speaker 1: in which case, oh fucking al the seven billion people 417 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 1: in the world that we could be with. I frequently 418 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:28,399 Speaker 1: asked myself in relationships if I met you now, would 419 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 1: I ask for your number? And I know that you've 420 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:33,159 Speaker 1: been together a really long time, and this is and 421 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 1: I'm just that you know, dickhead off the good place 422 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 1: and not then do I know I'm not supposed to 423 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:40,720 Speaker 1: interfere with your life, but I do think that I 424 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 1: do think that prioritizing your well being is important, and 425 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 1: it sounds like he's certainly doing that with his own life, 426 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:48,199 Speaker 1: and he's not really making your priority. And it has 427 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 1: to kind of be a combination. You're not looking to 428 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: interfere with him, You're not trying to make him live 429 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 1: a shorter or unhealthier or worse life. You don't want 430 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:56,480 Speaker 1: him to feel bad about himself. But also this is 431 00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:59,639 Speaker 1: an obsessive lifestyle and you're being dragged into it in 432 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:02,400 Speaker 1: every aspect, and you're being curtailed, and you're probably gonna 433 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:04,440 Speaker 1: have to go at socialize without him, So he's now 434 00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 1: missing chunks of your life. You're not witnessing each other's 435 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 1: lives together because of his obsession, because of what it 436 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 1: sounds like a bit of an addiction to the eating disorder. 437 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:14,680 Speaker 1: And so I think you kind of have to put 438 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 1: your foot down otherwise you're unfortunately enabling this behavior like 439 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 1: it's an own goal, you know what I mean. I 440 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:24,119 Speaker 1: think you should. I think it kind of has to 441 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 1: be either you come to therapy, Like if you have 442 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 1: nothing to hide, then you shouldn't be afraid of speaking 443 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:31,359 Speaker 1: to a mental health professional, because I think that's what 444 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 1: it is with a lot of people with eating disorders, 445 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:34,639 Speaker 1: that they're afraid to get help because they're afraid of 446 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:37,399 Speaker 1: getting fat if they get better. They subconsciously know that 447 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:40,480 Speaker 1: there's something wrong and they're afraid that their biggest fear 448 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 1: will come true. And it's really important that your partner 449 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 1: cares enough about you to make sure that you feel 450 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:50,200 Speaker 1: comfortable in this relationship. So I think it's a kind 451 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:54,119 Speaker 1: of either or situation. Yeah, and I believe. I believe 452 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:56,680 Speaker 1: that he cares, saying we've been together her, like you said, 453 00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:59,359 Speaker 1: nine years. We're obviously coming up of the pandemic, to 454 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 1: which was to cult because it was a lot of 455 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 1: eating and a lot of drinking that we normally wouldn't do, so, like, 456 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:07,760 Speaker 1: I gained a lot of weight. But in the midst 457 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 1: of that, something shifted where all of a sudden I 458 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 1: was the one just eating and drinking, and then he 459 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 1: was going to the gym every single day and working 460 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 1: out and running, and which is fine and great. Yeah, 461 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:22,959 Speaker 1: it's all which is great, and I'm glad like and 462 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,760 Speaker 1: he obviously feels better as you would if you worked 463 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:27,919 Speaker 1: out every single day, multiple times a day. But it 464 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 1: was such a sudden shift that I was like, oh, 465 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:34,280 Speaker 1: we're not doing Margarita's three times the night, which we 466 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 1: normally wouldn't do. With the pandemic was just bury that 467 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:38,720 Speaker 1: for us. So do you feel a bit left behind? Then? 468 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 1: Is that also part of this that you feel a 469 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 1: bit left behind? Do you feel a bit bad about 470 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 1: your lifestyle because he's, you know, making such an effort 471 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: with his lifestyle. Yeah, and now, yeah, I definitely feel 472 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 1: death And it's mainly you know I've obviously talked to 473 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 1: somebody about like my insecurities in a scenario, and that 474 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:57,560 Speaker 1: like all of a sudden, like when we got together, 475 00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 1: like I was like stick thin and he was bigger, 476 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,119 Speaker 1: and now it's sort of reversing. So there is a 477 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:05,560 Speaker 1: part of my insecurity and as well that I'm like, 478 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 1: I might be pushing my feelings a little too far. 479 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: Maybe it's not his fault. I don't want to enable 480 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 1: them either, but there's also my part. It's extremely accountable 481 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:17,440 Speaker 1: of you. I didn't realize that when I was saying 482 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 1: that earlier. I still think that it sounds like there 483 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 1: is an obsessive attitude towards food that needs to be remedied, 484 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:24,199 Speaker 1: and I think all people with eating disorders have to 485 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:26,360 Speaker 1: be accountable to the people they live with and chesspace 486 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 1: with to do everything they can to come out with that. 487 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,560 Speaker 1: But exercise, I think is fantastic. I don't really care 488 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:33,359 Speaker 1: how many times a day people do it. Obviously you 489 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 1: can't have exercise addiction, but I do think it's I 490 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 1: do think it's really great that you're investigating, that you're 491 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:40,440 Speaker 1: doing that with a therapist, your own kind of insecurity. 492 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 1: You worried that if he becomes more attractive he would 493 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:47,640 Speaker 1: leave you or actually, weirdly that's not the case, which 494 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,400 Speaker 1: normally like I would be, but I'm pretty secure. We're 495 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 1: pretty secure in our relationship and that I don't think, 496 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 1: you know, he's never said to me your body is 497 00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 1: changing or whatever like that, So sometimes they feel bad 498 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:01,640 Speaker 1: when I'm like, your body is changing, and obviously it's 499 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:04,639 Speaker 1: changing for the better, as was he when we got married. 500 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 1: So I'm working on my insecurities on my own with him. 501 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 1: I'm sort of just letting him go because he seems 502 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:14,120 Speaker 1: to be pleased with that. I think that's a great 503 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:16,159 Speaker 1: place to come from, though, you know what I mean, Like, 504 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:18,600 Speaker 1: it's great for you to open the conversation by even 505 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 1: admitting what your issues are, because that's not placing blame 506 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:24,639 Speaker 1: on him. It's like, hey, I'm struggling with this a 507 00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:27,919 Speaker 1: little bit, and I think, you know, it's less accusatory 508 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:30,680 Speaker 1: and it's more of a couple's issue that you need 509 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,560 Speaker 1: to come together with a third party for right. You know, 510 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 1: you have your insecurities and he has his, and it 511 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:38,959 Speaker 1: would be helpful to have a third party's kind of 512 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 1: input or opinion on all of those things. And starting 513 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,240 Speaker 1: with your own insecurities is a great way to kind 514 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 1: of kind of lubricate the conversation. I think that's really important. 515 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,360 Speaker 1: But also I don't think you can allow the fact 516 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:53,320 Speaker 1: that you're owning up the fact that you have insecurities 517 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:55,480 Speaker 1: to make him feel like then well, then that's just 518 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,880 Speaker 1: you and your issues. It's very important to remind everyone 519 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 1: that you know, two things can be through. At the 520 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 1: same time, you might have insecurities. You might feel like 521 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:04,280 Speaker 1: he's drifting away from your becoming I don't know, like 522 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:06,119 Speaker 1: better than you're any of these things, because he's living this, 523 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:10,160 Speaker 1: you know, societally more acceptable lifestyle than three margharita's a day. 524 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,119 Speaker 1: But at the same time, he also might be developing 525 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:14,640 Speaker 1: an obsession. And so therefore, as I said at the beginning, 526 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,679 Speaker 1: I really I feel very very strongly about if you 527 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:20,800 Speaker 1: ask someone to at least just try speaking to a 528 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:24,880 Speaker 1: professional because something is happening, something shifting in the relationships 529 00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:27,119 Speaker 1: making uncomfortable. If they're not willing to do it, then 530 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:31,280 Speaker 1: they're not being considered your feelings. So hopefully you will 531 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 1: just take a firm line with that. And I think 532 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,440 Speaker 1: Chelsea's right the opening with your own ship is going 533 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:40,760 Speaker 1: to I think soften him. Yeah, I think that's smart, 534 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 1: and I dispake me coming on a podcast and talking 535 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 1: about it. I generally don't talk about my insecurities with 536 00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:49,119 Speaker 1: him a whole lot. That's sort of what I have 537 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,679 Speaker 1: a therapist for. So I think you're right. And also, 538 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:54,880 Speaker 1: you know, Jamil and I were just before you call 539 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 1: talking about this this you know, male kind of toxicity 540 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 1: and that the way that men are raised in this world, 541 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:02,679 Speaker 1: and to think that they're not allowed to talk to 542 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,400 Speaker 1: each other about those things. And because you're two gay men, 543 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,280 Speaker 1: you make not think it's it's the same thing. You're 544 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:10,800 Speaker 1: both men, you were raised as men. You know, you're 545 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,680 Speaker 1: not women. You're not encouraged to talk about your feelings. 546 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 1: So this is not huge opportunity for you and for him, 547 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 1: and hopefully you guys can come out the other side 548 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,240 Speaker 1: of it. But yeah, with with with nine years of history, 549 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 1: you owe it to yourself to get a little deeper 550 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:27,679 Speaker 1: with him and to get a little bit more honest 551 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 1: about your feelings and your insecurities and those that always 552 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 1: opens up the door for the other person to do 553 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:35,160 Speaker 1: the same. Yeah, if you're hiding shipped from each other, 554 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:37,479 Speaker 1: it's only going to build a space between the two 555 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 1: of you because there's a lack of integrity then in 556 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 1: in acting as though you're fine when you're not. I 557 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 1: don't mean that in a judgmental way. I just think 558 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:46,359 Speaker 1: that then you're not really being your full self. You're 559 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 1: not showing up as your full self with each other. 560 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,399 Speaker 1: And and I mean, I think it sounds like you 561 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:53,160 Speaker 1: love each other very much, and you have so much 562 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 1: respect for him, and you're being very thoughtful and careful 563 00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,399 Speaker 1: with him in this delicate situation, and so I I 564 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:03,440 Speaker 1: have faith that you're going to nail this. Okay, well, 565 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 1: thank you, I appreciate it. Do you feel like you're 566 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 1: going to be able to have that conversation soon? Yeah? 567 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:10,879 Speaker 1: I do. He did read some of it, so you know, 568 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:12,919 Speaker 1: he knew the conversation I was having today. And he 569 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,200 Speaker 1: even lasted the house because he has today absout. He 570 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 1: left the house to make sure like I wouldn't feel 571 00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 1: like I couldn't speak my truth or whatever. He knows 572 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 1: the conversation could be coming. Yeah. Yeah, well this is 573 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 1: the perfect timing. Then you can just explain to him 574 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:28,760 Speaker 1: the conversation you had with us, and it started that 575 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:30,919 Speaker 1: way yeah, he must be kind of open if he 576 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 1: knows you're going on a massive fucking podcast to talk 577 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:36,320 Speaker 1: about it. I reckon, you're not too far off. I 578 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:38,200 Speaker 1: think he'll do it. I think he'll try it was 579 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 1: there to be afraid of. If there's nothing to be 580 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:43,960 Speaker 1: afraid of, then he shouldn't avoid it. Yeah. Yeah, And 581 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,000 Speaker 1: you know, there are lots of people that go through 582 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 1: really extreme eating disorder phases in their lives. You know, 583 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,399 Speaker 1: people have struggles, and it doesn't mean it's permanent. It 584 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:55,879 Speaker 1: doesn't mean it's forever. It's a point in your life 585 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:57,920 Speaker 1: and a space and time in your life that takes 586 00:27:58,000 --> 00:27:59,439 Speaker 1: up a lot of your time and a lot of 587 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,360 Speaker 1: your attention. But it's you know, nothing's really that permanent. 588 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,119 Speaker 1: So you know, don't be hopeless in any regard. Just 589 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:09,159 Speaker 1: be very optimistic and forthcoming and that you know, breeds 590 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,840 Speaker 1: were different, different sets of results than doing what you've 591 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,439 Speaker 1: done in the past or you know, not expressing yourself 592 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:16,719 Speaker 1: and all that. But please keep us posted and let 593 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,119 Speaker 1: us know what happens, because we always love feedback and 594 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:21,640 Speaker 1: I always love updates from all of our patients, even 595 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:23,879 Speaker 1: though we're not medical doctors. I like to think that 596 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:27,840 Speaker 1: I am. Even though I'm Indian, I maintain that I'm not. 597 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,000 Speaker 1: She's a doctor by birth. We come out with the 598 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,320 Speaker 1: stuff that's going around the neck, just like straight out 599 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 1: of the pussy, and I'm not goodbye, goodbye, thank you? 600 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:42,800 Speaker 1: Well sweet huh? I know, and it's sweet. It's you 601 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:44,480 Speaker 1: know what. When I started doing this podcast, I was 602 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:45,920 Speaker 1: like doing it in a little tongue in cheek and 603 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:48,960 Speaker 1: I thought, oh, we'll get some maybe quasi serious things, 604 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 1: and then people start calling in with real fucking problems 605 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 1: and real life situations. So it's really good. You give 606 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:57,640 Speaker 1: great advice. By the way, Jamala, so you're saying a 607 00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 1: great addition to this blunt Catherine, Who do we have 608 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 1: on deck? Okay, well, I think that's the only caller 609 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 1: will probably do for today. I have someone else, But 610 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:08,320 Speaker 1: there are a couple of other questions that I want 611 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 1: to make sure we get to with Jimmy La. This 612 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 1: question is from l Dear Chelsea. I was recently on 613 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 1: a girl's weekend and got really high on a edible, 614 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,080 Speaker 1: higher than I've ever been. We were with a few 615 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 1: people i'd never met, one of them being a lesbian couple, 616 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,240 Speaker 1: and I started to get attracted to this one girl. 617 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:28,320 Speaker 1: I've never questioned my sexuality before when it hit me 618 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 1: like a ton of bricks. I've never been attracted to 619 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 1: a guy like this. With them, I've always just thought, oh, 620 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,400 Speaker 1: they'll do I guess I just figured i'd never found 621 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:38,720 Speaker 1: the right one. Now I can't stop thinking that I 622 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,080 Speaker 1: might be gay, and I'm kind of freaking out about it. 623 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,000 Speaker 1: What do I do? Well, first, you should read Glenn 624 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 1: and Doyle's book Untamed, and then you could read Love 625 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:50,040 Speaker 1: Warrior also, which that was the prelude to Untamed. But 626 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 1: I think it's very very common to fall in love 627 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,360 Speaker 1: with people, not to fall in love with sexes, and 628 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:59,240 Speaker 1: so another construct of society that we are subject to 629 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:02,120 Speaker 1: and products of, but is not the way that it 630 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:06,600 Speaker 1: necessarily is. And I think when you have a strong, strong, 631 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 1: kind of electrical reaction to somebody, you should always pay 632 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,160 Speaker 1: attention to that because chemistry is so important between people, 633 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:15,560 Speaker 1: whether it's a love interest or not. You know, when 634 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:19,360 Speaker 1: you have a vibe with somebody, it's undeniable and you should, 635 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 1: you know, and it doesn't matter whether you're gay or 636 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 1: whether you're straight. We live in one you know, and 637 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:26,840 Speaker 1: I know some states are worse than others. But we're 638 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,400 Speaker 1: moving towards the future. So just be accepting of your 639 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:31,720 Speaker 1: feelings first of all, and don't ever try and push 640 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 1: those away, because that is the first thing that people 641 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,480 Speaker 1: do that is wrong. You should always just accept what 642 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 1: you're feeling, let it come up, and sit around and 643 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,400 Speaker 1: think about it for as long as you want. But 644 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 1: but that feeling is there for a reason. Women's intuition 645 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:50,280 Speaker 1: is everything, and I can't stress enough how we forget 646 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,200 Speaker 1: how strong our intuition is, and when we don't act 647 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 1: on it, we're not serving our own best interests or 648 00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:58,520 Speaker 1: the interests of others. We're just kind of putting like 649 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:01,840 Speaker 1: a pin in something that is never going to go away. 650 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:05,960 Speaker 1: So I would encourage you to explore that further. For sure. 651 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:10,200 Speaker 1: Explore your relationship with that woman you know, or create 652 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:13,080 Speaker 1: a friendship, or reach out to that person. Did she 653 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 1: say in the letter if she had reached out yet 654 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,200 Speaker 1: or she just felt that strong. Yeah, I would encourage 655 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 1: you to explore that because that's what life is about, 656 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 1: is about seizing opportunities and listening to your feelings. And 657 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 1: that's something that we're talking about a lot that I 658 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:29,920 Speaker 1: think women have an advantage over men with We do 659 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,320 Speaker 1: listen to our feelings, but sometimes we learn that we 660 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:36,360 Speaker 1: over analyze the situation or we think we have to 661 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:40,840 Speaker 1: define a situation, and it's not necessarily the case for 662 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:44,960 Speaker 1: anything in life to have to define it with such structure. Jimmiela, 663 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:47,000 Speaker 1: what are your thoughts on this? I think she should 664 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 1: hold it in obviously all of the things that I 665 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:51,800 Speaker 1: write on my Instagram every day. Just bottle it up. 666 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,680 Speaker 1: Never tell a soul. No. I agree with everything you said. 667 00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:56,959 Speaker 1: I have no further questions. You're on a you know, 668 00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 1: like that. Everything you said, it's exactly how I feel, 669 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:01,760 Speaker 1: and I think that well. I hope that the next 670 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:05,600 Speaker 1: generation have more of an understanding of fluidity regarding gender 671 00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:08,720 Speaker 1: or sexuality or many of these different things, and so 672 00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 1: learn from the kids. Listen to the kids. Definitely read 673 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 1: Untamed and start, you know, filling your timeline with more 674 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:17,440 Speaker 1: queer people so you can see that it's not this 675 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:21,479 Speaker 1: terrible thing that involved being always ostracized and shunned and 676 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:25,680 Speaker 1: living a terrible heathen lifestyle. It's just a very normal, 677 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,160 Speaker 1: happy life. It's a much happier life than when you're 678 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 1: denying yourself your basic instincts. Yeah, I would say, read untamed, 679 00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 1: and then you're not going to have any questions left 680 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,120 Speaker 1: because that is the definition of somebody doing the thing 681 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:39,920 Speaker 1: that she thought she could never do. How exciting though, 682 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,200 Speaker 1: How exciting to find that out about yourself at any 683 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,560 Speaker 1: age better late than never, Jesus. And how exciting to 684 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,400 Speaker 1: have that charge of meeting somebody and having those feelings. 685 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:51,160 Speaker 1: That's exciting too. I Mean, people go through their whole 686 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:53,600 Speaker 1: lives and say they don't feel that, So don't ever 687 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:57,400 Speaker 1: ignore that kind of fire, you know. All Right, Well, 688 00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,800 Speaker 1: thank you for writing in and definitely keep up posted. Yes, 689 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:04,760 Speaker 1: after you express your interest to said potential love interests, 690 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:07,440 Speaker 1: please let us know how that goes and what happens. 691 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,400 Speaker 1: We need all the details, please. Well, I've got one 692 00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:13,960 Speaker 1: more question for the two of you. This comes from 693 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:18,160 Speaker 1: Patty Dear Chelsea. Here's my question, based solely on vanity. 694 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,480 Speaker 1: I just turned forty and I'm slowly watching myself adopt 695 00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:25,760 Speaker 1: my mother's double chin slash turkey neck. I absolutely swoon 696 00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:28,080 Speaker 1: over how beautiful your skin is and how great you 697 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 1: always look. I'm hoping you have a skincare routine that 698 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:33,760 Speaker 1: doesn't cost a fortune and some sort of advice to 699 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:37,200 Speaker 1: help slow the seemingly inevitable turkey neck. I'm a yoga 700 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:40,560 Speaker 1: teacher and a ski instructor. I take care of my body. 701 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:43,640 Speaker 1: I eat healthy, drink my water, and other than my neck, 702 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,040 Speaker 1: I am very happy with the way my body looks. 703 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:50,680 Speaker 1: Help Patty, but made me really sad. Let me just 704 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:52,840 Speaker 1: Jamala had her head in her hands when she was 705 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,960 Speaker 1: listening to this because it was upsetting to her. And 706 00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,520 Speaker 1: why don't you, why don't you start, Jamala, because this 707 00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,480 Speaker 1: is your area, this is this is definitely your area 708 00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:06,320 Speaker 1: of expertise. I mean, this is just daylight robbery. This 709 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:10,480 Speaker 1: is a woman who has had her gratitude for life 710 00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:14,319 Speaker 1: somewhat stolen from her, like she's had her self love 711 00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:18,799 Speaker 1: stolen from herself worth compromised. This is so unfair. This 712 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 1: is such she's such a victim of patriarchy. I mean 713 00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:24,040 Speaker 1: this with no judgment of her. The fact that women 714 00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:27,280 Speaker 1: have been taught to be afraid of time and gravity 715 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:30,240 Speaker 1: something that we reddish and men, you know, we shoot 716 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:32,280 Speaker 1: men on the cover of magazines Dropped Berlin. We shoot 717 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:36,719 Speaker 1: every single tiny crevice in HD, you know. And well, 718 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:38,960 Speaker 1: first of all, what about that g Q cover with 719 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:42,480 Speaker 1: what's his face, Jonah Hill? I mean, yeah, look at 720 00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:46,760 Speaker 1: they made Jonah, what about that cover? Men are congratulated 721 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:49,319 Speaker 1: just for deciding that they're sexy without if you're having 722 00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:52,080 Speaker 1: to be sexy, he is quite sexy. But yeah, like 723 00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:54,840 Speaker 1: it's the gray hair, the salt and pepper, Like we 724 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:58,000 Speaker 1: don't use these words for women. It's so insane, Like 725 00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,520 Speaker 1: when I was looking at the film for Ocean Eights, 726 00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:03,600 Speaker 1: for Ocean Oceans eight, you know, all of the promo 727 00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:05,480 Speaker 1: came out, all of their covers came out, and they 728 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:07,080 Speaker 1: were photoshoped to the point where they all look like 729 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:10,000 Speaker 1: fucking emojis. You know it just so I didn't recognize 730 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:12,640 Speaker 1: any of these women who I grew up with, who 731 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:14,719 Speaker 1: are only like maybe five or ten years older than me, 732 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:18,840 Speaker 1: and they look younger than me, and and and we 733 00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:22,439 Speaker 1: as in like us, public figures are kind of weaponized 734 00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:25,000 Speaker 1: against women, like the one who just called in to 735 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:27,040 Speaker 1: think that all of us. I mean, look, first of all, 736 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:29,960 Speaker 1: what we think a fourty year old should or shouldn't 737 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:32,960 Speaker 1: look like is dictated to by media. Who owns media, men, 738 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:35,280 Speaker 1: they own the magazine. Even though there's a woman editors 739 00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:37,880 Speaker 1: answering to a man the studios owned by men, film 740 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:40,680 Speaker 1: and music labels owned by men, everything, all of the 741 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,520 Speaker 1: social media platforms owned by men, most of the products 742 00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:48,480 Speaker 1: sold to women owned by men. Men are creating this 743 00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:53,839 Speaker 1: falsified standard of beauty and societal expectations that women are 744 00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:56,560 Speaker 1: just being adhered to. We're eighty percent of the market, 745 00:35:56,680 --> 00:36:00,200 Speaker 1: we're eighty percent of consumers, and so the only to 746 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:01,919 Speaker 1: make sure people are going to buy things, the most 747 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:03,839 Speaker 1: like fullproof way to make sure that people are going 748 00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:06,719 Speaker 1: to consume is if they feel bad about themselves, as 749 00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:09,560 Speaker 1: if they feel depressed. The more sad you are, the 750 00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:11,480 Speaker 1: more empty you feel, the more likely you are to 751 00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:13,759 Speaker 1: go and buy something that is going to fill that emptiness. 752 00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:16,520 Speaker 1: And so that's why we are so targeted and manipulated 753 00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:19,040 Speaker 1: to hate ourselves, spend every single day of every single 754 00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,920 Speaker 1: minute of our lives hating ourselves and being distracted thinking 755 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:25,720 Speaker 1: about things like reversing time and gravity, which is impucking 756 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:31,520 Speaker 1: possible unless you are Kiano Reeves. Aside from him, it's impossible. 757 00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:33,680 Speaker 1: And so we're being distracted and our eyes being taken 758 00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:35,920 Speaker 1: off the ball of our happiness, our mental health or safety, 759 00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:39,279 Speaker 1: our well being, our entrepreneurship, It doesn't like it doesn't 760 00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:41,840 Speaker 1: even have to do business wise, are just our growth 761 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:45,920 Speaker 1: is being stunted by these pressures and these expectations that 762 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:49,080 Speaker 1: were created in a lab by a bunch of insecure 763 00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:52,080 Speaker 1: ass whole men. On top of that, I also find 764 00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:56,319 Speaker 1: it upsetting that people in privilege are used as the 765 00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:58,839 Speaker 1: like with the most amount of privilege possible, are used 766 00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:02,279 Speaker 1: as the standard of what everyone should look like. When 767 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,080 Speaker 1: we are given so much help, so much hair makeup, 768 00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:09,120 Speaker 1: so the like a better quality of food, fucking facials, 769 00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:12,480 Speaker 1: and and easier lifestyle and a lack of financial stress. 770 00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:15,200 Speaker 1: We're not running around after four children as single mothers, 771 00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:18,240 Speaker 1: like working five jobs, not having time to even sucking sleep, 772 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:21,880 Speaker 1: never mind preen ourselves the way that public figures do 773 00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:24,520 Speaker 1: this frustrates me from every single angle. And I wish 774 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:26,759 Speaker 1: I could just grab this woman, especially after the last 775 00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:28,839 Speaker 1: year and a half where we've realized how short life 776 00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:31,160 Speaker 1: is and what privilege it is to grow older and 777 00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:33,759 Speaker 1: to show signs of the life that you have been 778 00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:35,840 Speaker 1: so lucky to continue to live when so many people 779 00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:38,920 Speaker 1: have died so young, and just infuse her with gratitude 780 00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:43,080 Speaker 1: and self love and not this hysteria around the most 781 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,600 Speaker 1: the most natural and inevitable thing on earth, something that 782 00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:51,160 Speaker 1: we love in men. Sorry, amen, Amen, Jamila Amen. I 783 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:53,200 Speaker 1: think yeah, that is a great way to put it. 784 00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:55,239 Speaker 1: You know, I don't think you should compare yourselves to 785 00:37:55,360 --> 00:38:00,160 Speaker 1: us as your as your your standard bearer, because I 786 00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:04,880 Speaker 1: even struggle with stuff to do because with lasers and 787 00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:07,440 Speaker 1: stuff and injections, I used to do all that stuff 788 00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:08,960 Speaker 1: and I really try not to do any of it 789 00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:13,400 Speaker 1: anymore because it is a negative, negative spin cycle. Like 790 00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:16,200 Speaker 1: it is, it's cyclical, and once you get on the ramp, 791 00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:18,160 Speaker 1: it is very hard to get off of it. So 792 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:21,400 Speaker 1: if you could move into acceptance and understand that your 793 00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,360 Speaker 1: wrinkles and that things that you don't like about yourself 794 00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:25,960 Speaker 1: are a part of who you are and a part 795 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,680 Speaker 1: of your experience and aging. And I know that doesn't 796 00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:31,920 Speaker 1: sound sexy or attractive, but it adds to your soul 797 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:34,680 Speaker 1: and it adds to your self esteem, because there's nothing 798 00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:37,719 Speaker 1: hotter than having self confidence, and self confidence is something 799 00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:40,320 Speaker 1: that comes from within. You don't get that from changing 800 00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:42,239 Speaker 1: the way that you look, because if you change something 801 00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:43,800 Speaker 1: about your neck, you're going to find something else you 802 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,640 Speaker 1: don't like either. And so I would just really encourage 803 00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:49,680 Speaker 1: you to move into acceptance and know that that is 804 00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:53,240 Speaker 1: a sign of you having a good, healthy, full life. 805 00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:55,400 Speaker 1: You sound like you have your ship together, So have 806 00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:59,040 Speaker 1: it together all the way around. Agreed, agreed, so agreed, 807 00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:03,400 Speaker 1: Such a shame and so young, fultyish, she ful ty, 808 00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:06,560 Speaker 1: so young with like four years older than me. And 809 00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:08,560 Speaker 1: I would also just want to say, like, you don't 810 00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:11,080 Speaker 1: have like I'm forty six. I don't like my neck either. 811 00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:13,919 Speaker 1: Guess what I forgot about it a long time ago. 812 00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:15,960 Speaker 1: You know what I mean, Like, I'm not gonna do 813 00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:18,279 Speaker 1: anything about it. I I it doesn't matter to me 814 00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:20,560 Speaker 1: that much. And maybe you're gonna say, oh, well, your 815 00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:22,319 Speaker 1: neck is beautiful. Yeah. I get a lot of ship. 816 00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:23,759 Speaker 1: I get a lot of facials, I get a lot 817 00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:25,799 Speaker 1: of lasers. I get all of that stuff done, and 818 00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:29,319 Speaker 1: they are expensive, unfortunately. But I also try to make 819 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,759 Speaker 1: sure that I'm not ever setting an unreal example. You know, 820 00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:34,600 Speaker 1: I'm not going to get a facelift. I'm not gonna 821 00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:37,839 Speaker 1: get plastic surgery. I'm just not doing that. Ship. So 822 00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:39,440 Speaker 1: you know, there are things about me that I do 823 00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:41,920 Speaker 1: not like and that I just say fuck it. That's 824 00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:44,200 Speaker 1: part of who you are and it's sexier to embrace 825 00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:48,240 Speaker 1: it and and and forget about it because you fixate 826 00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:51,319 Speaker 1: on things and then that you don't you know, And 827 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,560 Speaker 1: it's up to you to kind of have that mental 828 00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:55,879 Speaker 1: game with yourself where you're a little bit more above it. 829 00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:59,640 Speaker 1: And I think what separates people from people with lack 830 00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:02,719 Speaker 1: of confidence from people with more confidence, it's just it's 831 00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:05,239 Speaker 1: just a mental game. It's just like athletes being better 832 00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:07,919 Speaker 1: than other athletes. You can rise above all of that 833 00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:10,839 Speaker 1: and you can have your self confidence that we all have. 834 00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:12,879 Speaker 1: We all have a reservoir of it. It's just whether 835 00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:15,040 Speaker 1: or not you're able to tap into it. And I'm 836 00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:17,480 Speaker 1: telling you that you're capable enough to tap into it. 837 00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:19,960 Speaker 1: It's insane that with everything else that we're supposed to fear, 838 00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:24,239 Speaker 1: you know, rape, murder, being anywhere on our own, whatsoever, 839 00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:28,480 Speaker 1: everything males wearing flip flops, of men wearing flip flops. 840 00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:31,560 Speaker 1: On top of that, we're supposed to fear elbow fat 841 00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:36,280 Speaker 1: and armpit rolls and our next. No one ever looks 842 00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:38,160 Speaker 1: at our next, No one cares about our next. Our 843 00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:40,880 Speaker 1: next have nothing to do with anything other than keeping 844 00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:44,759 Speaker 1: our head up above our bodies. Like earlobe plasty. I 845 00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:47,600 Speaker 1: feel like that was just like I knew the pandemic 846 00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:49,759 Speaker 1: was coming and the world was going to end as 847 00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:52,839 Speaker 1: soon as they invented earlobe plasty. The fun. Who the 848 00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:57,959 Speaker 1: funk cares about our fucking airlobes. It's so it's so frustrating, 849 00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:00,920 Speaker 1: it's so frustrating. We're bleaching our ur holes where I 850 00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:04,440 Speaker 1: personally refused to participate in any of it. I had 851 00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:07,080 Speaker 1: my breast reduced because of back pain when I was younger, 852 00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:09,480 Speaker 1: and it's not because I don't have any insecurities. I've 853 00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:11,560 Speaker 1: got body dysmorphia and a fucking eating sort of twenty 854 00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:13,759 Speaker 1: years I'm covered in scars from head to turb my 855 00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:18,319 Speaker 1: body because of my disability. I I just cannot say. 856 00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:21,680 Speaker 1: I'm such a stubborn bitch that I know that there 857 00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:25,640 Speaker 1: are a small group of men profiting from myself hatred, 858 00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:29,080 Speaker 1: and so every time I go and pay them for 859 00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:32,440 Speaker 1: the hatred that they infused me with, I would feel 860 00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:35,840 Speaker 1: like I'm betraying myself. It's not like a it's not 861 00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:37,960 Speaker 1: I'm not on a pedestal, you know here, or like 862 00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:41,040 Speaker 1: just sitting here like on my soapbox, fucking ranting everyone. 863 00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:44,600 Speaker 1: I'm just saying that someone is profiting from every moment 864 00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:47,120 Speaker 1: that you spend shipping on the way that you look, 865 00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:49,640 Speaker 1: or obsessing over the way you're probably magnifying. I bet 866 00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:51,480 Speaker 1: there's nothing. I bet there's no excess skin on her 867 00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:53,799 Speaker 1: chin from all the way that she's talking. Sounds like 868 00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:55,680 Speaker 1: all of my friends who are my age, who are 869 00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:58,359 Speaker 1: all talking about these things that I cannot see when 870 00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:00,000 Speaker 1: they're pointing them out to me. We have been given 871 00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:04,800 Speaker 1: like a psychosis around our appearance. And that's because of fucking, fucking, 872 00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:08,399 Speaker 1: fucking fucking filtering and photoshop that has made us think 873 00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:09,960 Speaker 1: that these things don't exist, and we're all supposed to 874 00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:12,759 Speaker 1: look like KaiA Gerber forever. We're not supposed to look 875 00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:17,960 Speaker 1: like KaiA Gerber forever or ever. And that's okay, that's good. 876 00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:22,440 Speaker 1: Variety is hot. Older women are Yeah, older women are 877 00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:26,120 Speaker 1: all the women that I'm attracted to or older than me. Yeah. 878 00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:28,319 Speaker 1: All right, Well, I hope that settles your question. And 879 00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:31,359 Speaker 1: I hope that yeah. Yeah. I keep us posted and 880 00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:33,480 Speaker 1: and let us know if you got over yourself. Can 881 00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:35,800 Speaker 1: I can I just quickly add one thing as well, Chelsea, 882 00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:38,480 Speaker 1: tell me if you agree with this, can we suggest 883 00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:40,560 Speaker 1: just to try this for anyone out there. This is 884 00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:43,160 Speaker 1: what I did when when I hit my peak of 885 00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:47,040 Speaker 1: self hatred, I decided to try an experiment of taking 886 00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:49,359 Speaker 1: all the money that I wanted to spend on things 887 00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:52,240 Speaker 1: that we're going to, you know, quote unquote fix my appearance, 888 00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:55,000 Speaker 1: and I put it in an actual piggy bank and 889 00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:58,160 Speaker 1: put that money towards therapy instead. I decided to fix 890 00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:00,920 Speaker 1: the inside rather than try to fix my outside for 891 00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:03,319 Speaker 1: everyone else. I'm not a motherfucking billboard for everyone else 892 00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:05,200 Speaker 1: to appreciate. I'm a human being. I deserve a good 893 00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:08,480 Speaker 1: human experience on this earth. Sorry to interrupt, Oh no, 894 00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:11,200 Speaker 1: I appreciate the interruption. And on that note, we are 895 00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:13,319 Speaker 1: going to take a quick break so you can hear 896 00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:17,640 Speaker 1: and add and then we'll be right back. Jamila, do 897 00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:19,120 Speaker 1: you have a question for me. That's a new thing 898 00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:22,920 Speaker 1: we're doing. We're having asked me a surprise question. You 899 00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:25,520 Speaker 1: struck me a really long time ago, Like I was 900 00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:28,200 Speaker 1: back in England when I first became aware of you 901 00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:31,800 Speaker 1: years and years ago, and you were just so different 902 00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:34,080 Speaker 1: to everyone else on the television. It felt like you 903 00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:38,200 Speaker 1: were not dictated by whether or not people approved of you, 904 00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:42,200 Speaker 1: and I was wondering if that's something that you really 905 00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:46,239 Speaker 1: genuinely feel on the inside, like an indifference to other 906 00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:49,560 Speaker 1: people's opinions of how you're supposed to live, And if so, 907 00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:52,359 Speaker 1: where does that come from. Yeah, I tend to give 908 00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:54,759 Speaker 1: off the vibe that I don't have high regard for 909 00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:56,880 Speaker 1: other people's opinions of me. And I would have to 910 00:43:56,960 --> 00:43:59,239 Speaker 1: say at that point in my life, when I was 911 00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:03,400 Speaker 1: doing Chelsea Lately, I did not have regard for what 912 00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:05,840 Speaker 1: people thought of me. That didn't occur to me. I 913 00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:08,759 Speaker 1: just thought, I'm having a great time, Let's look at 914 00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:10,879 Speaker 1: the people around me. I was very present in what 915 00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:13,759 Speaker 1: I was doing. I definitely did go through about of 916 00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:20,000 Speaker 1: insecurity and self consciousness later on, probably or five six 917 00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:22,719 Speaker 1: years ago. I think when I when I left Netflix 918 00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:25,319 Speaker 1: and I left my TV shows, and that was had 919 00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:28,920 Speaker 1: been my identity for so long, and the regard that 920 00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:31,520 Speaker 1: people had for me felt like it was shifting, when 921 00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:34,880 Speaker 1: really it was my regard for myself because I didn't 922 00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:37,759 Speaker 1: have the things that defined me in that way. You know, 923 00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:40,200 Speaker 1: I'm not i'm not married, I don't have a family. 924 00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:43,920 Speaker 1: And that was when I decided to go into therapy, 925 00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:46,799 Speaker 1: when I started to feel and to care what other 926 00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:50,239 Speaker 1: people how they perceived me. Was when I knew I 927 00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:52,120 Speaker 1: had lost the plot a little bit. You know, I 928 00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:54,040 Speaker 1: just thought, wait, wait, wait, this isn't who you are, 929 00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:58,240 Speaker 1: This isn't you're not this isn't fierce, this isn't strong, 930 00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:01,279 Speaker 1: this is actually I felt very weak in a way, 931 00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:04,560 Speaker 1: which isn't okay feeling to have as long as your 932 00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:07,160 Speaker 1: solution oriented about it. You know, I didn't want to 933 00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:09,840 Speaker 1: live in that weakness or that insecurity. It felt foreign 934 00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:12,480 Speaker 1: to me and I didn't like feeling that way. I 935 00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:15,120 Speaker 1: didn't like thinking about what people thought about me. So 936 00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:17,279 Speaker 1: it was a lot of work to get back to 937 00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:20,080 Speaker 1: what I thought about myself, because that's really what it 938 00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:23,520 Speaker 1: comes down to, is how how do you revere yourself? Right? 939 00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:26,680 Speaker 1: You know? And do you revere yourself? And I got 940 00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:29,520 Speaker 1: back to that place, you know, what other people think 941 00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:32,919 Speaker 1: of me, it can bother me, but it's not where 942 00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:35,319 Speaker 1: I live, and I don't I don't spend a lot 943 00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:39,359 Speaker 1: of time scrolling through comments about people who don't like me. 944 00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:41,880 Speaker 1: I don't spend a lot of time thinking about the 945 00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:44,120 Speaker 1: people that say no to me. You know, if you're 946 00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:46,600 Speaker 1: pitching a show and you get an offer from one place, 947 00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:48,759 Speaker 1: so many people can focus on all the people that 948 00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:51,799 Speaker 1: say no, when in reality, all we all ever need 949 00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:53,920 Speaker 1: in life is one person to say yes. You just 950 00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:57,400 Speaker 1: need the one Yes. You just need to have chemistry 951 00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:00,560 Speaker 1: and fall in love with one person. Know, you don't 952 00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:03,080 Speaker 1: have to feel that way from everybody. You don't have 953 00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:06,120 Speaker 1: to have everybody love you, And it's not a realistic 954 00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:09,719 Speaker 1: endeavor anyway. So I would say, yes, what you saw 955 00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:12,920 Speaker 1: was real, But I'm not somebody who has never suffered 956 00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:17,799 Speaker 1: from insecurity or self consciousness. You know, I have and 957 00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:20,799 Speaker 1: I didn't like that either. So I made sure to 958 00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:23,240 Speaker 1: kind of dig my way out of that with therapy, 959 00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:25,400 Speaker 1: which is what I did, and now I'm in a 960 00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:29,480 Speaker 1: much different place. But yeah, you know, I definitely care 961 00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:32,680 Speaker 1: what people think to a degree. I just don't let 962 00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:35,000 Speaker 1: that be my north star. Yeah, I don't want to 963 00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:36,600 Speaker 1: hurt anyone, but I couldn't really give a funk whether 964 00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:38,960 Speaker 1: or not anyone likes me. I hate everyone, so like, 965 00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:43,600 Speaker 1: no one has to like me, right right? It's not 966 00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:47,120 Speaker 1: a yeah. I've also I also have this new philosophy 967 00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:49,160 Speaker 1: that I've been subscribing to is that I don't need 968 00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:52,319 Speaker 1: someone to like me. In order for me to like them, 969 00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:54,480 Speaker 1: because that used to be a barometer for me. Like 970 00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:56,239 Speaker 1: if I if I didn't like someone, I found out 971 00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:57,480 Speaker 1: they were a big fan, I'm like, oh, I do 972 00:46:57,600 --> 00:46:59,319 Speaker 1: like them. It's like no, no, no, no, that's not 973 00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:01,319 Speaker 1: how it works. You don't just like people because they 974 00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:03,920 Speaker 1: like you. I decide who I fucking like and who 975 00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:06,160 Speaker 1: I don't like. And just because someone doesn't like me, 976 00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:09,279 Speaker 1: does it preclude me from liking them. I like that. 977 00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:11,120 Speaker 1: It's a good flo doesn't matter for me whether they 978 00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:15,480 Speaker 1: like me or not. I normally don't like them, don't. Well, yeah, 979 00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:18,000 Speaker 1: I think that's I think that's a common I think 980 00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:20,319 Speaker 1: that's a common feeling for a lot of people. You're 981 00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:23,080 Speaker 1: not very liberating. I think if we really ask ourselves, 982 00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:25,120 Speaker 1: like do we like everyone? Know that? Why do we 983 00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:28,480 Speaker 1: expect everyone to like us? This ship is mutual? I 984 00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:33,640 Speaker 1: think we need to exhibit more reciprocity of just like 985 00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:36,520 Speaker 1: sometimes I'm talking to someone, you know, like when you're 986 00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:38,760 Speaker 1: trying to be polite or you're trying and then you've realized, 987 00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:41,279 Speaker 1: like you're talking to somebody and you're trying to be 988 00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:43,319 Speaker 1: polite and you're trying to engage with them. And then 989 00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:46,000 Speaker 1: you're thinking, why, why the funk am I going making 990 00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:49,040 Speaker 1: all this effort for someone that I'll never ever see again, 991 00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:51,799 Speaker 1: just so that they can have a good experience with me? 992 00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:53,560 Speaker 1: And I want to leave them with a good feeling. 993 00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:56,680 Speaker 1: That's okay, but I don't wanna You know, why am 994 00:47:56,680 --> 00:48:00,200 Speaker 1: I bending over backwards for a stranger? And know what 995 00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:03,040 Speaker 1: I do? What? So? I learned this from a guy 996 00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:06,319 Speaker 1: at a party. When you join a conversation of a 997 00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:08,600 Speaker 1: social function, which I almost never go to because I 998 00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:10,759 Speaker 1: am such an introvert and hermit, But when I do 999 00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:12,560 Speaker 1: find myself one of those, as soon as I clocked 1000 00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:16,479 Speaker 1: the conversation is not interesting, you just smile and point 1001 00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:19,040 Speaker 1: your fingers and then moonwalk out of the conversation, just 1002 00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:21,840 Speaker 1: in a quite a cheerful way, and everyone's so confused 1003 00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:24,880 Speaker 1: by what's happened that they don't feel bad about themselves 1004 00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:28,480 Speaker 1: or rejected. So if anyone else would like to utilize that, 1005 00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:31,600 Speaker 1: moon walking out of a conversation is actually the perfect 1006 00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:34,960 Speaker 1: exit when you're bored. Yeah, but I have to learn 1007 00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:37,440 Speaker 1: how to moonwalk then, and I have no rhythm. I'm 1008 00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:40,759 Speaker 1: I have no you know who has rhythm? Though? My 1009 00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:44,040 Speaker 1: boyfriend he can teach me how to moonwork. Yeah, well, 1010 00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:46,000 Speaker 1: I'm glad you don't get I guess the real question. 1011 00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:47,799 Speaker 1: The answer to my question is that you don't give 1012 00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:49,719 Speaker 1: a ship what people think about you. The answer to 1013 00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:52,040 Speaker 1: your question to me is that you don't give a 1014 00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:55,640 Speaker 1: ship when people think about you. So that's good. It 1015 00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:57,560 Speaker 1: was a process. There was a process we're taught from 1016 00:48:57,560 --> 00:48:59,640 Speaker 1: as soon as we can understand that women have to 1017 00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:01,960 Speaker 1: be liked by everyone. Even though everyone's got such individual 1018 00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:04,439 Speaker 1: tastes and needs, we have to meet all of them 1019 00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:07,440 Speaker 1: and it just feels like an exhausting, impossible task. So 1020 00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:11,160 Speaker 1: let's just try and please ourselves. Yeah, Jamilla, you really 1021 00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:15,000 Speaker 1: brought it today. We have some like experts and doctors 1022 00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:17,759 Speaker 1: that call in and I mean, you've fucking killed it. 1023 00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:21,000 Speaker 1: You're better than all of those people. I mean, you 1024 00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:23,520 Speaker 1: really know your ship? No I do. I do. I 1025 00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:26,040 Speaker 1: just adore you. I love your Instagram. If you guys 1026 00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:29,839 Speaker 1: don't follow Jamilla, please do. It's at Jamilla Jamil am. 1027 00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:32,360 Speaker 1: I saying it right, Jamala Jamil. It's at Jamia Jamale 1028 00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:35,080 Speaker 1: official on Instagram. Because of a six year old young 1029 00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:37,480 Speaker 1: boy from Syria took my real name. So that's fine. 1030 00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:40,759 Speaker 1: He can have, isn't that always the way? That's the 1031 00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:43,200 Speaker 1: least we can do for him. And I want to 1032 00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:45,319 Speaker 1: thank you for coming on today and thank you for 1033 00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:48,000 Speaker 1: imparting your wisdom with us and to us and to 1034 00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:50,719 Speaker 1: our callers. And I hope that I get to see 1035 00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:53,760 Speaker 1: you again in person to same. Well. Look, this wisdom 1036 00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:57,080 Speaker 1: comes from thirty six years of immense and repeated failure. 1037 00:49:57,200 --> 00:49:59,560 Speaker 1: So at least I've done it so that you don't 1038 00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:04,439 Speaker 1: have to to anyone listening, I fucked it all up already. Yeah. 1039 00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:06,759 Speaker 1: I would love to see you soon. Hopefully we're both 1040 00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:08,799 Speaker 1: in Los Angeles, I think, so let's find each other 1041 00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:12,359 Speaker 1: when all this for sure, we will for sure. Well, 1042 00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:15,120 Speaker 1: it's been an absolute pleasure. I appreciate you taking the time, 1043 00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:17,319 Speaker 1: and I want to let you go now, and yes, 1044 00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:19,360 Speaker 1: hit me up and then let me know when you 1045 00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:21,320 Speaker 1: want me to come on any of your podcast honey, 1046 00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:24,000 Speaker 1: and I would be happy to Bye, Okay, have a 1047 00:50:24,040 --> 00:50:28,360 Speaker 1: great day, Bye bye, Catherine, Bye, Thanks, thank you, bye bye. 1048 00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:31,279 Speaker 1: And if you have a question, or you and a 1049 00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:34,400 Speaker 1: loved one have a question, please write into Dear Chelsea 1050 00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:38,080 Speaker 1: Project at gmail dot com. Oh, and everybody, I am 1051 00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:40,640 Speaker 1: picking back up my vaccinated and horny tour. If you 1052 00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:44,560 Speaker 1: don't have tickets, please get them Chelsea handler dot com. 1053 00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:47,759 Speaker 1: So please get your tickets. I can't wait to see everybody. 1054 00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:49,200 Speaker 1: Okay guys, thanks,