1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, A production 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. Happy Friday. I'm Tracy P. Wilson. 3 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:17,799 Speaker 1: I'm Holly Fry. One of the episodes we talked about 4 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:21,760 Speaker 1: this week was Celia Payne Kaposhkin. Pretty great, Pretty great. 5 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:23,759 Speaker 1: Like I said at the top of the show, I 6 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:26,320 Speaker 1: don't love the sexism that was part of this episode, 7 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: but I do love her. One of the points that 8 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 1: has been made about her is that her discovery was 9 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:36,199 Speaker 1: of the same caliber as like the discovery of gravity, 10 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 1: Like like she should have a name that's recognized as 11 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 1: recognizable as somebody like Isaac Newton. But it's not. And 12 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: something that I read in several places and thought myself 13 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:51,239 Speaker 1: that I didn't get into in the episode because it 14 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 1: is really conjecture, is she was so brilliant and so 15 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: meticulous and so determined. What else might she have to 16 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: discovered if she had not had to be Harlow Shapley's 17 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:05,399 Speaker 1: assistant right because of her sex, If she could have 18 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 1: just been exploring what excited and interested her. Yeah, we 19 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:12,760 Speaker 1: will never know, no, but she should be as well 20 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:18,399 Speaker 1: recognized as an Isaac Newton or an Einstein or We're 21 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 1: gonna keep fighting the fight, right, we at least get 22 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 1: her name out there a little more. Yeah, and then 23 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:25,120 Speaker 1: the next person can talk about her to somebody and go, hey, 24 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 1: have you ever heard of this woman? And then weilly 25 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 1: eventually get her more recognized. Well, And I do really 26 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 1: want to recommend the new biography of her. It just 27 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 1: came out, I feel like, maybe marchish of this year. 28 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:41,679 Speaker 1: It's pretty new. It's by Donovan Moore and it's called 29 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 1: What Stars Are Made Of the Life of Cecilia Panga 30 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 1: pashkin Um. It is from Harvard University Press. It's really 31 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 1: lovely and really I mean obviously very thoroughly researched, with 32 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 1: lots and lots of footnotes. You can also find her 33 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 1: her autobiography. Still, she loved literature so much that the 34 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 1: way she wrote about things could be like very lyrical 35 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:09,399 Speaker 1: and beautiful um, in addition to just interesting and full 36 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 1: of details about her life. Do you know this occurred 37 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 1: to me during the episode, and I didn't want to 38 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 1: derail us with this question, but did you ever find 39 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:21,359 Speaker 1: because you mentioned her students talking about how she was 40 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 1: very intimidating, but her lectures were very beautiful and very memorable. 41 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 1: Are their lecture notes like, did do we ever have 42 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 1: any of her? I don't know, because that would be 43 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:35,080 Speaker 1: amazing reading things would be amazing. Well and considering that 44 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 1: she uh, she was alive into the seventies, um like. 45 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 1: I wasn't able to watch the whole talk, but I 46 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:44,680 Speaker 1: watched the beginning of a talk that was about this 47 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: book by the author, and in the introduction, the person 48 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 1: introducing the author talked about having actually taken classes with 49 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 1: her back in the seventies when she was still teaching 50 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 1: at Harvard. So it's it would not surprise me. I 51 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 1: know there are collections of um her, her manuscripts and whatnot. Yeah, 52 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 1: if there were not a pandemic, I would just go 53 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 1: over to Harvard. Well, uh, one day on the list 54 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 1: of things to do, put it in the dream book 55 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 1: of things you wish to do after this is all over. Yeah, 56 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:24,959 Speaker 1: I feel like she's one of those people. Um, I 57 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:27,079 Speaker 1: knew a veterinarian. This is going to sound like it's 58 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 1: completely different, but I'm making a point. I knew a veterinarian. 59 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:31,960 Speaker 1: At one point that one of their colleagues was telling 60 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 1: me that they always loved too like. They were always 61 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 1: very comfortable stepping into treating a patient for that that 62 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 1: if she was ever out, because her notes and her 63 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: details about everything that had gone on were so meticulous 64 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 1: and so well written that it was almost like reading 65 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 1: a novella about that animal, and like you would know 66 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 1: walking in not only what all of its medical stuff was, 67 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 1: but like about its disposition, and you a pretty good 68 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 1: sense of like the creature you were about to treat. 69 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 1: And I feel like her notes in prep for her 70 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 1: lectures are probably very similar. Yeah. Um. One of the 71 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 1: reasons that I feel a kinship with her, I am not, 72 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 1: in any stretch the brilliant scientist slash just mind in 73 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 1: general that she was, but the way her early school 74 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 1: teachers approached her, like making her the object for the 75 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 1: rest of the class. I had teachers that did that 76 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 1: to me, and it sucked. Um. So some of the 77 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 1: story is about, like, you know this this child beat 78 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 1: all of you in this exam. How did you let 79 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:43,720 Speaker 1: this child do that? Like I would be the sometimes 80 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:46,719 Speaker 1: I would be the like Tracy behaved. Why can't the 81 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 1: rest of you behave like Tracy? And I was like, well, 82 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 1: now I'm mortified and my peers are going to believe me. 83 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:55,280 Speaker 1: Like that's that was a piece of our story that 84 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 1: there was overlap in, and I just I wanted to 85 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 1: go yell at her teachers who are all dead from 86 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:04,160 Speaker 1: so long ago. At this point that didn't bother me, 87 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:06,719 Speaker 1: although it does remind me of a funny story that 88 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:11,240 Speaker 1: I will tell you that is embarrassing because I definitely 89 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 1: like I was that kid for a long time, and 90 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 1: then as I got into my teenage years and started 91 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 1: sewing my wild oats, I stopped being so much that kid, 92 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 1: and I pretty much like maxed out in terms of 93 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:27,720 Speaker 1: like the amount of study I was willing to do. 94 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 1: And so there were classes that I ended up getting 95 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:33,839 Speaker 1: into that I probably shouldn't have been in, but there 96 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:36,839 Speaker 1: I was, and I just kind of soldier through. And 97 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:41,359 Speaker 1: the first exam that we had senior year in physics, 98 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 1: I was the only person who got an A. Oh, 99 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 1: don't even because this teacher went on about like how 100 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 1: promising a student I was, and girl, I made that 101 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 1: stuff up. I was like guessing I didn't. It was 102 00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 1: literally like winning the lottery of exams, like I I 103 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 1: had No, I didn't. I couldn't have told you a 104 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 1: single thing or understood a single concept on that test. 105 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:08,280 Speaker 1: Here we were and so it was like this awkward thing, 106 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:12,719 Speaker 1: as you know in those kinds of classes go and 107 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 1: you form study groups, and people are like, oh, Holly 108 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 1: probably knows this. I don't know what you're talking about. Definitely, uh. 109 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 1: And then I just underperformed the rest of the year, 110 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:26,719 Speaker 1: so just bounce it out. I had quite forgotten that 111 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:33,799 Speaker 1: until just this moment. Well, Today's Behind Scenes includes stories 112 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 1: from Tracy and Holly's earlier academic life. Anyway, I love 113 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:43,719 Speaker 1: Cecilia Pankoposchkin pretty great. You can find pictures of the 114 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 1: portrait of her online. I do not know if where 115 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:50,279 Speaker 1: that is hanging at Harvard is a place that's accessible 116 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 1: to the public, but if it is, that will also 117 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:57,720 Speaker 1: be on the list of things to do after the pandemic, 118 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:02,479 Speaker 1: which one can hope will ever be over. I know 119 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:07,440 Speaker 1: my list is getting very long while we wait. This 120 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 1: week we talked about Maria on a Mozart, who is 121 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 1: someone who kind of pops up in my consciousness and 122 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 1: on my list, and then I have gone to other things, 123 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 1: but it felt like time for her. It's interesting because 124 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 1: I think she gets sensationalized a little bit, is like 125 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 1: the other wunderkind of the Mozart family, who was you know, 126 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 1: cast aside, and that's not entirely accurate. One thing that 127 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 1: I found really really interesting in all of my research 128 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 1: is the different ways that different historians and biographers have 129 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: characterized their father Leopold, because some make him out definitely 130 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 1: to be something of a controlling monster, whereas others really 131 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 1: are like, well wait, some of this looks really controlling 132 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 1: to the modern eye. But like his whole thing of 133 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 1: like I don't want you to perform anymore, could legitimately 134 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 1: have been a concern that he was afraid she would 135 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 1: never get married and have a normal life if she 136 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 1: did that. There certainly also benefits to him keeping her 137 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 1: at home, taking care of him in the house and 138 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 1: all of his stuff. It's an interest, and we'll never know, really, 139 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 1: because there there are some pretty big gaps in the 140 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 1: record of some of those relationships, some of which we 141 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 1: talked about on the show. Allegedly, letters between vof Gang 142 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 1: and Leopold about Constanza got burned by Constanza, so we 143 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 1: don't really know what discussions happened between father and son 144 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 1: about that marriage. There's a lot more there. Obviously, it 145 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 1: wasn't an episode about Gang, but his whole. Like, um, 146 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 1: life story is complicated and full of twists and turns, 147 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:50,560 Speaker 1: and like Constanza was not the first sister of that 148 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 1: family that he had been involved with, and like there's 149 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 1: an extra layer of complication there. Rama. Yes, there's a lot, 150 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 1: a lot of drama, but it is it's a very interesting, Um, 151 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:05,080 Speaker 1: you know that whole family. There's so many people who 152 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:11,560 Speaker 1: literally just focus on that family and it's it's far reaching, 153 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:15,440 Speaker 1: you know, influences on music and culture that we still 154 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: feel today. But uh, I would I would never claim 155 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:21,720 Speaker 1: to be anything more than a dilettant in that regard. 156 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 1: But it is pretty fascinating to read different people talk 157 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:31,080 Speaker 1: about their theories about the family interpersonal communication. Sure, I 158 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 1: mean I I The whole allowing her father to raise 159 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:40,559 Speaker 1: her son is a is one that people get really 160 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:44,560 Speaker 1: hung up on, which understandably it's super weird. It's not 161 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:49,199 Speaker 1: super strange necessarily for a grandparent to raise somebody's child. 162 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 1: The nature of that whole, like I went and gave 163 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: birth and then I left the kid with my dad 164 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:57,199 Speaker 1: and went home to my home were theoretically that child 165 00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:00,680 Speaker 1: could have returned home. There was no reason, you know, Um, 166 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:02,679 Speaker 1: that makes it a little bit hard I think for 167 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:05,320 Speaker 1: people to wrap their brains around. Yeah, well, and it's 168 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:10,080 Speaker 1: I can imagine scenarios where it doesn't seem that strange 169 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 1: at all, and some of them we kind of nodded to, 170 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:15,680 Speaker 1: like there were already a lot of children at home. 171 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:18,320 Speaker 1: But a lot of the time, like when I have 172 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 1: known people who say, had a sibling and a lot 173 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 1: of kids in the siblings family, and usually it's been 174 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:29,960 Speaker 1: one of the older children who has come to live 175 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 1: with them, not a newborn. Right. The newborn is the 176 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 1: part that that makes it a little bit, a little 177 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 1: bit hard to to parse. Yeah, yeah, I mean, uh, 178 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:43,680 Speaker 1: as as you're pointing out right, every family has its 179 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 1: its own dynamics and and shifts and ways to like 180 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:50,679 Speaker 1: function and cope in in times of strain, that one 181 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 1: just seems like it's a strange Leopold wanting to then 182 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:58,560 Speaker 1: be like, no, this is a permanent arrangement. This is 183 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:01,960 Speaker 1: I'm raising him as Mike it does I mean, I 184 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:06,440 Speaker 1: I don't I My initial reaction was, oh, I bet 185 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 1: he wanted Mozart Part two, Mozart the sequel, especially when 186 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:13,720 Speaker 1: you consider that you know, he had reached that point 187 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 1: where he was no longer really part of his son's 188 00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:19,199 Speaker 1: career in a way where I think formed his identity 189 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:22,800 Speaker 1: for a long time. So then to kind of be like, 190 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 1: we don't need you in that capacity anymore, probably messed 191 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:28,320 Speaker 1: with this head. That's always my thing that I tried 192 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:30,839 Speaker 1: to remember. I think you do as well. I think 193 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 1: most people probably do, whether they're conscious of it or not. 194 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 1: Any figures we talked about in history, we're humans that 195 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:43,320 Speaker 1: we're dealing with their own complex internal stories, whether they 196 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 1: were aware of how they were processing things and behaving 197 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 1: or not. You know, we um there's a humans. I mean, 198 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 1: how many times have any of us. I know it's 199 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:56,160 Speaker 1: happened to me where I'll be behaving in a way 200 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:58,680 Speaker 1: and even I know like this is making unnecessary friction 201 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 1: in my life, and I'll think about it and go, oh, 202 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 1: I see I'm not actually coping with this other thing. 203 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:08,160 Speaker 1: But if you don't think about that, you never get 204 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 1: to that solution, and the behavior continues and it creates 205 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:13,559 Speaker 1: all kinds of others. And everybody has had that. So 206 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 1: I think about how many big historical moments or events 207 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 1: or even figures in terms of specific people have really 208 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 1: been formed by that kind of thing. Where like a 209 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:28,560 Speaker 1: moment of introspection would have completely changed the trajectory. We 210 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:31,679 Speaker 1: can never know. It's just a fascinating sort of brain 211 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:35,560 Speaker 1: puzzle to distract yourself with. Yeah, the thing that I 212 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 1: think makes me the saddest about their story, Like I 213 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 1: wish she had been able to have a career publicly 214 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:48,319 Speaker 1: as a as a musician or a composer, but like 215 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:52,080 Speaker 1: the society was not really open to that at the time. 216 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 1: Now there were a few women who perform in music, 217 00:12:56,160 --> 00:13:00,560 Speaker 1: but again those were like the outliers there. Um. But 218 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 1: just in terms of their personal story, the fact that 219 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:05,559 Speaker 1: they had that that she and her brother had been 220 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:09,439 Speaker 1: so so close when they were little and then and 221 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 1: when they became adults, each of them really did not 222 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 1: have a sense of what was going on in the 223 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 1: other one's life anymore. Um, And that's that's the part 224 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 1: to me that like makes me really sad for them. Yeah, 225 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 1: like this, I have, uh, you know, a sort of 226 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:31,280 Speaker 1: alternate history wish, like some I imagine somebody has written 227 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 1: historical novel about things went differently and she was able 228 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 1: to continue and perform as an adult. But like the 229 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 1: thing that I really just wish I could go back 230 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:43,200 Speaker 1: and do is like get get them to just to 231 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:47,680 Speaker 1: be more connected to each other as they grew up. Right, Yeah, 232 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 1: it's also interesting because as much as um Leopold may 233 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:57,439 Speaker 1: not have been particularly enthused about Constanza and perhaps Maria 234 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:01,160 Speaker 1: Anna wasn't either, like that really does seem to have 235 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 1: been a pretty good match for both going in terms 236 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 1: of like she stood by him through a lot of stuff, 237 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:12,679 Speaker 1: you know, wealth and poverty and having many children and 238 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:16,560 Speaker 1: a lot of stress, and so it is it's a 239 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 1: little interesting that their judgment on that matter might not 240 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 1: have been awesome and as a consequence, that's that's where 241 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 1: you know, that breakdown seems to have happened for a 242 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 1: lot of their their family relationships, and it it does, 243 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 1: like you said, it's it's heartbreaking that they probably could 244 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 1: have helped each other through some unhappy times. You know, 245 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 1: certainly there were bigger issues in play than like anybody 246 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 1: can magically fix for someone else, But it still is 247 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: that is I think, I agree, the heartbreak really of 248 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:56,240 Speaker 1: their story. Oh siblings. So that wraps up our our 249 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 1: casual Friday for today. I hope you have a wonderful weekend, 250 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 1: and if you would like to subscribe to the podcast. 251 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 1: You absolutely can do that and we welcome it, and 252 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 1: you can do that on the I heart Radio app, 253 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 1: at Apple podcast or wherever it is you listen. Stuff 254 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 1: you missed in History Class is a production of I 255 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 1: heart Radio. For more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit 256 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 1: the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 257 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.