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Speaker 1: Hey, Brian, Hi Katie. Well, Brian, you know I love

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Speaker 1: to play music or sing it times during our podcast,

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Speaker 1: and for this week's episode, I found just the ticket.

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Speaker 1: Let me take you back to nine three. This got

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Speaker 1: to be a mooning enough. If we can hold on,

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Speaker 1: not we have a chance to find the sun shot.

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Speaker 1: Let's keep on. Very well played, Katie, Thank you, very

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Speaker 1: well played. With a hat tip to Maureen McGovern, Thank

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Speaker 1: you Maureen for that tune and Brian. Today we're going

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Speaker 1: to spend some time looking for the light to try

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Speaker 1: to understand what happened during the mid term elections and

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Speaker 1: what they mean for the future of the country. As

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Speaker 1: we know, the Democrats took the House, flipping dozens of

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Speaker 1: Republican districts, but the Republicans kept control of the Senate,

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Speaker 1: gaining a number of seats by beating incumbent Democrats. Well,

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Speaker 1: this is like Christmas Morning for me, Katie. So I'm

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Speaker 1: so excited about this show, and we've invited one of

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Speaker 1: the people I most admire, Amy Walter, a terrific political analyst,

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Speaker 1: to talk with us today about what happened where we

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Speaker 1: go from here. She's the national editor of the Cook

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Speaker 1: Political Report, which by the Way is my favorite beach read,

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Speaker 1: highly recommended to all of you. Then we're going to

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Speaker 1: be hearing from some of you are listeners, because voters

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Speaker 1: from all across the country are calling in with questions

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Speaker 1: or interesting perspectives, and I'm very excited about that as well.

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Speaker 1: And in the second half of the show, we're gonna

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Speaker 1: hear from presidential historian Doug Brinkley. He's going to talk

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Speaker 1: about the big picture, how the midterms will change the

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Speaker 1: trajectory of Donald Trump's presidency, and also what lessons he

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Speaker 1: can learn from the way past presidents dealt with opposition congresses.

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Speaker 1: Doug Brinkley one of my favorites. But first let's talk

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Speaker 1: to another one of my favorites, Amy Walter. We got

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Speaker 1: her on the line yesterday morning, fresh off the mid terms.

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Speaker 1: Amy Walter, Welcome to the podcast. It's great to have you,

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Speaker 1: who I'm very glad to be here. I it's the

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Speaker 1: my day after the election. UM mood and mood, which

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Speaker 1: is a just um really subsisting on adrenaline, caffeine, a

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Speaker 1: little bit of sugar, and a lot of peanut butter.

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Speaker 1: And that's it. That's all that's keeping me alive right now. Nice. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, it seems to me that both sides are

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Speaker 1: claiming victory. Certainly compared to two thousand and ten, when

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Speaker 1: Barack Obama famously self described his experience as a shellacking,

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Speaker 1: it seems to be more of a mixed verdict for

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Speaker 1: President Trump. In fact, he portrayed this way quote tremendous

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Speaker 1: success tonight, thank you to all. So how can we

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Speaker 1: see such different perspectives on the same results. They both

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Speaker 1: actually can be correct, that both sides can find something

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Speaker 1: that they really liked out of this midterm election. And

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Speaker 1: it's something, Katie, that we've been talking about the Cook

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Speaker 1: Report for quite some time because of two things. One

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Speaker 1: just how polarized we are as a country now. Um

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Speaker 1: we saw it obviously in the difference between the popular

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Speaker 1: vote and the electoral college vote and how it's playing

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Speaker 1: out in a mid term year. Is that the House vote,

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Speaker 1: which it looks like Democrats will have won by about

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Speaker 1: nine points somewhere north of thirty seats. But in the Senate,

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Speaker 1: where the map was decidedly read, Democrats defending ten states

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Speaker 1: that Trump carried, uh five of them that Trump carried

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Speaker 1: by double digits. The president remained popular and his success

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Speaker 1: his popularity helped to boost or publican candidates there, and

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Speaker 1: so we had two different elections take place on Election

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Speaker 1: Night in two very different Americas. As I'm beginning to

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Speaker 1: break down in my own head, it seems like we're

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Speaker 1: just seeing an acceleration of all the trends we've witnessed

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Speaker 1: in the last few years in politics, kind of culminating

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Speaker 1: in the election of Donald Trump. This big educational divide

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Speaker 1: between white collar, college educated whites and blue collar, non

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Speaker 1: college educated whites, a divide between cities and close in

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Speaker 1: suburbs on the one hand, and excerpts in rural areas

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Speaker 1: on the other, whites versus minorities, etcetera, etcetera. Is there

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Speaker 1: anything new or different that we learned in this election

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Speaker 1: that we didn't know going in. I don't know that

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Speaker 1: we learned anything particularly new, And I think that this

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Speaker 1: is what sort of fascinating about this election is that

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Speaker 1: if you look at the exit polls, for example, of

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Speaker 1: the election that basically told you the story of the

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Speaker 1: eighteen election, We've had an incredible amount of stuff happen

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Speaker 1: in between eighteen and yet we ended up essentially in

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Speaker 1: the same place. And the amazing thing for the President

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Speaker 1: again is as as you noted earlier, go on to

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Speaker 1: say that he was successful, right, the places where he

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Speaker 1: campaigned the candidates one, that is true. The places where

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Speaker 1: he was popular candidates one, absolutely true. But there a

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Speaker 1: whole lot of places that we know that the president

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Speaker 1: carried in Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania where Republicans didn't do very well. Um,

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Speaker 1: those are going to be uh to me. Those are

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Speaker 1: the sorts of places I'm going to be spending a

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Speaker 1: lot more time looking at as we get into And

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Speaker 1: the other question I think is whether this is a

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Speaker 1: permanent realignment that we're seeing or whether this is one

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Speaker 1: that is really unique to President Trump. Are these districts that,

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Speaker 1: for example, in the Houston suburbs that went for Mitt

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Speaker 1: Romney by double digits and then flipped to a Democrat

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Speaker 1: this year, are these now permanently in the Democrats camp

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Speaker 1: or are they going to move back to their sort

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Speaker 1: of Republican DNA once Trump's no longer in office. And

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Speaker 1: we're not going to have the answer to that right now,

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Speaker 1: but I do think that what we have today, instead

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Speaker 1: of a president with a broad coalition, he has a

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Speaker 1: narrow but deeply committed coalition. One more thing just to

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Speaker 1: recognize is again the president definitely had some successes. It's

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Speaker 1: always better to have a bigger Senate majority than a

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Speaker 1: smaller one, and it will be a more committed Trump majority.

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Speaker 1: Remember some of his biggest critics, Jeff Flake, Bob Corker

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Speaker 1: from Tennessee, they're no longer in the delegations and have

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Speaker 1: to worry about the Mavericks so much anymore, potentially denying

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Speaker 1: him Supreme if there's another Supreme Court opening or other

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Speaker 1: judicial openings. But I don't think we have any idea

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Speaker 1: how this president is going to react to Democratic Congress,

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Speaker 1: the subpoenas, the oversight, and at the same time, we

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Speaker 1: have no idea how Democrats are going to react to

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Speaker 1: not knowing how Trump is going to react it. It

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Speaker 1: feels to me a little bit like you're handling a

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Speaker 1: very uh unstable substance. You know it's nitroglycerin or something,

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Speaker 1: and you're passing it around between each other and at

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Speaker 1: some point you know that something's going to explode. I

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Speaker 1: just don't know who's going to be holding it when

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Speaker 1: it explodes. Well, you know, it's interesting, as Brian and

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Speaker 1: I have listened to the analysis at nause um um.

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Speaker 1: You know, one one side posits that it actually is

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Speaker 1: helpful to President Trump to have an enemy. And now

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Speaker 1: that enemy obviously will be the democratically controlled House of

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Speaker 1: Representatives and Nancy Pelosi, which you can only imagine sort

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Speaker 1: of the vitriol that's going to be coming her way.

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Speaker 1: A S. A. P. So you have no idea in

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Speaker 1: terms of the dynamic we might be witnessing between the

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Speaker 1: House and the White House, right because the President is

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Speaker 1: so unpredictable, Well, he's predictably unpredictable, right, I mean, we

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Speaker 1: I think we know that he's going to punch back

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Speaker 1: at any subpoena or oversight or question by Democrats. But

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Speaker 1: the Democrats could also put in front of Congress some

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Speaker 1: of the cabinet members or the administration officials who quite

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Speaker 1: frankly haven't had to answer any questions for the last

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Speaker 1: two years on some pretty significant policy, whether that's healthcare

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Speaker 1: or immigration or trade, and they're answers to those questions

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Speaker 1: could be a bigger problem for Republicans than the President

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Speaker 1: can acknowledge right now. And I think he's focused very

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Speaker 1: specifically on well, if the Democrats try to impeach me,

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Speaker 1: they're going to go too far, or if Democrats try

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Speaker 1: to impeach Judge Kavanaugh, that's not what the American public wants,

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Speaker 1: so show their just obstructionists. But what if they start

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Speaker 1: bringing folks from HHS or DHS up to the Hill

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Speaker 1: and start asking questions about the immigration process on the border.

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Speaker 1: What about asking questions about the e p A and

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Speaker 1: some of the deregulatory efforts. What if they start asking

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Speaker 1: questions that Republicans and the administration don't have very good

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Speaker 1: answers for, or uncover scandals that previously had gone unknown

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Speaker 1: or unremarked. This is you know, again, this is not

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Speaker 1: just theoretical. These folks in Congress do have subpoena power.

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Speaker 1: Amy pray your point about impeachment. I think it's pretty

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Speaker 1: clear that the Democratic leadership at least has no interest

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Speaker 1: in that from a political perspective, But they may not

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Speaker 1: have a choice if and when Robert Mueller issues his

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Speaker 1: report and there's some pretty damning accusations in there, um

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Speaker 1: which there might be, there might not be, but if

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Speaker 1: there are, um, can't you see a process like that

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Speaker 1: derailing whatever the agenda is now that the Democrats are

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Speaker 1: trying to absolutely and I think there are a lot

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Speaker 1: of question marks about that, as well as requesting the

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Speaker 1: president's tax records, which they can do, but I don't

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Speaker 1: know what legislative accomplishment comes from that, you know, like,

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Speaker 1: what's the what's the reasoning behind that for Congress, And

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Speaker 1: they're going to have to be able to to make

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Speaker 1: that case pretty cleanly and clearly for it to look

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Speaker 1: like it's substitutive rather than just phishing expedition. Uh, that's

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Speaker 1: focused on just embarrassing the president. Speaking of that, Amy,

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Speaker 1: I was going to ask you about you know, there's

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Speaker 1: been a lot of debate internally, Amy, about the direction

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Speaker 1: of the Democratic Party, with a sort of fight over

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Speaker 1: the heart and soul. Should it be the moderate middle,

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Speaker 1: should it be the party of Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders.

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Speaker 1: Did the results of the mid terms give us any

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Speaker 1: insight into that? Yeah, it's an excellent question. I think

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Speaker 1: there are many Democrats hoping that there would be a

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Speaker 1: definitive answer to that, especially from places like Florida or

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Speaker 1: Georgia or Texas where Democrats were running not just as progressives,

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Speaker 1: but their message was we can win in these diverse

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Speaker 1: states by pumping up turnout among voters of color, younger

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Speaker 1: people who traditionally don't show up to vote in midterm elections.

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Speaker 1: And to do that, you know, we need candidates with

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Speaker 1: interesting stories and they need to be unapologetic and unafraid

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Speaker 1: to to run as progressives. Well, it looks like all

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Speaker 1: three of those candidates UM will have lost. And I

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Speaker 1: think there is going to be something of a pushback

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Speaker 1: among national Democrats to say, if that message isn't working

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Speaker 1: in Florida, a state that is a battleground in if

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Speaker 1: that isn't working in Georgia or Texas, to states that

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Speaker 1: Democrats have been saying now for years demographically are are

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Speaker 1: turning their direction, then it makes it really hard to

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Speaker 1: say that that's the right message up against Donald Trump.

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Speaker 1: At the same time, some of the most centrist candidates

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Speaker 1: lost in Indiana. Damn, you're sort of damned if you don't, right,

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Speaker 1: that's the centrist candidates lost in fairness in much more

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Speaker 1: difficult states, in states where Trump had like a approval rating,

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Speaker 1: where he won with a much larger margin, but in

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Speaker 1: the closer states that Trump won in two sixteen, but

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Speaker 1: the Democrats one on Tuesday in the Midwest, Michigan, Pennsylvania,

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Speaker 1: and Wisconsin, for example, the three states that made a

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Speaker 1: difference in the presidential race. Moderate Democrats or relatively center

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Speaker 1: left Democrats were the ones who were able to prevail,

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Speaker 1: and they were able to show the Democrats can still

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Speaker 1: win in those places, which I suppose was a little

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Speaker 1: bit in doubt before this. Yeah, and I think you know,

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Speaker 1: Tammy Baldwin is a great example of this senator from Wisconsin.

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Speaker 1: No one is going to call her a moderate. She

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Speaker 1: is one of the more liberal members of the United

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Speaker 1: States Senate. And yet there is and I hate this

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Speaker 1: word because it gets overused, but I'm going to use it.

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Speaker 1: Is there's an authenticity to Tammy Baldwin. People know exactly

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Speaker 1: who she is. Same with Shared Brown in Ohio. He's

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Speaker 1: sort of a populist liberal in Ohio, a state that

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Speaker 1: not only did Donald Trump carry, but Republicans carry the

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Speaker 1: governorship there. They have uniqueness to their state and an

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Speaker 1: attachment to their state that really sets them apart. Again,

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Speaker 1: not because of where they you know, it's it's they

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Speaker 1: didn't tack necessarily to the center ideologically, but personality wise.

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Speaker 1: And there the attention that they paid to the state

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Speaker 1: pays dividends and and so I think really, and Katie,

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Speaker 1: I've been thinking about this for a while that you know,

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Speaker 1: folks like me in Washington, for so many years we've

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Speaker 1: been looking at the presidential primary process on an ideological scale, right, Uh,

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Speaker 1: do you have the more left or the more right? Candid?

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Speaker 1: How conservative? How liberal? Um? Do you need to be?

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Speaker 1: I think normal people and so I'm not a normal

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Speaker 1: person I recognize as normal people. Primary voters are not

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Speaker 1: looking at these ideological scales and and sort of checking

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Speaker 1: off a list, right, Well, they've put on these six criteria.

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Speaker 1: They're looking for the personal attachment, the personal story, the

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Speaker 1: way that they feel that they can connect there. And

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump was a perfect example of that. He Uh,

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Speaker 1: he was not a straight down the line conservative Republican.

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Speaker 1: On so many issues he broke with Republican orthodoxy, but

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Speaker 1: there was an authenticity to him. And Bernie Sanders. I'm

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Speaker 1: sure you all heard it on the campaign trail too.

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Speaker 1: When I would talk to people who liked Bernie Sanders,

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Speaker 1: some of them were really conservative people, and they said,

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Speaker 1: I don't agree with anything that he says, but gosh, Dart,

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Speaker 1: I like that he stands up for it, he believes

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Speaker 1: in something. Well, that's such an anti establishment vote, whether

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Speaker 1: it's Bernie Sanders or Donald Trump. And I was having

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Speaker 1: breakfast with a friend of mine this morning, and she

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Speaker 1: was saying she thinks we're witnessing a massive realignment, not

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Speaker 1: from left to right, but more populist versus elitist, you know, more,

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Speaker 1: as Brian mentioned, sort of rural and ex ex urban

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Speaker 1: voters versus urban and suburban voters, and that we're more

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Speaker 1: divided on those lines, along those lines than ideological lines

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Speaker 1: per se. I agree with that, And a lot of

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Speaker 1: it is cultural, right, the sense that if I live

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Speaker 1: outside of a major metropolitan area, I have a whole

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Speaker 1: set of life experiences and viewpoints that people in the

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Speaker 1: suburbs and the cities don't appreciate and they don't understand.

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Speaker 1: And you go into the cities and the suburbin areas

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Speaker 1: and they look out at the rural areas and they say,

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Speaker 1: why don't you understand? This country is diversifying. This country

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Speaker 1: doesn't look like it did fifty years ago. It's not

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Speaker 1: going to look like that anymore. Stop trying to bring

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Speaker 1: us back there and that push and pull between you know,

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Speaker 1: the transformative right, here's where we're going in the future.

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Speaker 1: And the restorative Here's who this country is and we

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Speaker 1: want it to remain. Is that fight that is going

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Speaker 1: to be with us, certainly for the next four year,

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Speaker 1: isn't The real question is how much longer will this

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Speaker 1: tension be the central force in our politics. The one

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Speaker 1: ideological element I would add to this discussion, though, is

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Speaker 1: that the Democrats you mentioned in the Midwest didn't give

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Speaker 1: their Republican opponents an obvious line of attack by saying

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Speaker 1: they were going to abolish ice or b for impeachment,

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Speaker 1: or take some of the kind of harder edged positions

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Speaker 1: than a number of the more liberal Democrats and the

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Speaker 1: Sun Belt took, which their Republican opponents seemed to use

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Speaker 1: very effectively against. It's an interesting point, and look in

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Speaker 1: those suburban districts. What you found were Democrats who did

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Speaker 1: the following one. They stayed away not just from some

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Speaker 1: of the divisive issues like ice um, but they also

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Speaker 1: stayed away from impeachment. I didn't hear anything about Russia

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Speaker 1: or Mueller. In fact, the word Trump rarely came up

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Speaker 1: for many of these Democrats who won in these suburban districts.

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Speaker 1: They focused much more in healthcare. But I do think

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Speaker 1: that this is the ideological fight within the Democratic Party

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Speaker 1: to come on the issue of healthcare. Democrats made that

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Speaker 1: a centerpiece of their election this year, specifically looking to

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Speaker 1: Republicans and their votes in Congress to repeal Obamacare, the

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Speaker 1: decision by the Trump administration to continue to fight for

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Speaker 1: um in the courts to overturn the law, and you

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Speaker 1: saw sort of a split within the party and whether

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Speaker 1: they're in conservative districts more moderate districts about the question

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Speaker 1: of medicare for all and what that means for some voters.

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Speaker 1: I think they interpret it in one way. Other voters

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Speaker 1: interpreted another way. But at some point Democrats are going

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Speaker 1: to have to actually explain what Medicare for all does mean.

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Speaker 1: And what you saw in many of these competitive states

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Speaker 1: was at Republicans were ready to pounce on this issue

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Speaker 1: by labeling Democrats as socialists, right, they want socialized medicine.

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Speaker 1: They're going to take away your access to your doctors.

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Speaker 1: It's going to be trillions of dollars of taxes. And

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Speaker 1: I think in many cases those attacks didn't work, in

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Speaker 1: part because people don't quite understand what this whole Medicare

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Speaker 1: for All thing is about. But they did very clearly

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Speaker 1: understand what the pre existing condition fight was about, what

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Speaker 1: drug cost fight was about. That's a day to day

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Speaker 1: concern for them. But I think come this debate over

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Speaker 1: expanding healthcare to include this Medicare for all or single

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Speaker 1: payer versus the President wanting to repeal Obamacare and what

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Speaker 1: would be in its place is going to be a

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Speaker 1: central argument. We asked some people to call in with

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Speaker 1: their questions concerns, and we have a few people who

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Speaker 1: are nice enough to do just that. So we don't

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Speaker 1: want to keep them on hold indefinitely. And Amy, I

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Speaker 1: know they benefit from your insight UH as well. So

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Speaker 1: let's go to Julie from Kansas, who has a question.

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Speaker 1: Julie High, how are you? Hi? Katie? Hi, Brian, thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for having me all. You're welcome. Thanks,

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Speaker 1: what's your question? I'm some campus and UM. I was

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Speaker 1: so heartened and so excited last night that we did

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Speaker 1: not elect Chris Kobach to be UM our next governor.

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Speaker 1: We actually went Democratic with Laura Kelly and we had

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Speaker 1: one other district UM where we elected Sharis David's for

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Speaker 1: the House UM. But this morning, as I really started

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Speaker 1: to think about it, I started feeling more like these

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Speaker 1: were exceptions. These were two people that were absolutely horrible

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Speaker 1: candidates and they went Democrat because the Republican option was

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Speaker 1: so incredibly awful. I'm curious what your take is on

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Speaker 1: what this means of the country with a with a

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Speaker 1: red state going Democratic in a couple of different areas.

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Speaker 1: I don't think this is a blue wave for US.

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Speaker 1: I think that these are small exceptions. Amy, what would

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Speaker 1: you say, Yeah, it's a really good point because Democrats

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Speaker 1: were hoping that they could have similar success in other

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Speaker 1: red state governorships where he had an unpopular governor in

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Speaker 1: the case of Oklahoma, just like Kansas that was retiring.

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Speaker 1: Oklahoma and Mary Fallon, who left office I think was

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Speaker 1: something like a fifteen point favorable rating um in that state,

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Speaker 1: and uh, the race got very close, but ultimately Republicans

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Speaker 1: prevailed in Oklahoma. South Dakota another place that has had

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Speaker 1: Republican governors for quite some time, but Democrats had a

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Speaker 1: really appealing candidate in a former rodeo writer um who

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Speaker 1: had been paralyzed in a rodeo accident, who kept that

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Speaker 1: race very competitive. Ultimately that race tipped to the Republicans.

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Speaker 1: And Iowa, another state where Republicans have bit a charge

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Speaker 1: for a long long time. They kept the governorship in

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Speaker 1: that state. And so Kansas really of of of the

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Speaker 1: red states where Democrats saw an opening. They had good candidates,

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Speaker 1: they had unpopular governors, or at least maybe a cent

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Speaker 1: from voters in that state that it was time to

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Speaker 1: do something new, you know, they they could turn a

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Speaker 1: new leaf, try out another party. Only Kansas really delivered

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Speaker 1: on that promise. Wisconsin was a big win for Democrats.

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Speaker 1: You know, they've been trying now this is a fourth election,

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Speaker 1: they've been trying to unseat Scott Walker. But that's not

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Speaker 1: really a red state. So of the of the dark

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Speaker 1: red states, Kansas does definitely stick out. Julie from Kansas,

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Speaker 1: Thank you for calling. Julie, Thank you. Okay, we've got

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Speaker 1: Jonathan from Texas. Uh, thanks for calling in and what's

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Speaker 1: your question? Hi gaty Hi, Hi Brian. It's so great

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Speaker 1: to be speaking with you guys. Um. So my question

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Speaker 1: is um. I'm a um the border. I'm a second

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Speaker 1: generation Texan born and raised on the border. From the radio. UH.

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Speaker 1: Immigration has always locally been talked about as a positive thing,

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Speaker 1: and betso as someone from the border El Paso, I

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Speaker 1: believe understood in articulate this issue better than anyone I've seen,

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Speaker 1: and so after looking at the margins in the race

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Speaker 1: last night, it looks like a lot of other Texans

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Speaker 1: agreed to even though it wasn't obviously enough to get

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Speaker 1: him across the finish line. But are there any lessons

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Speaker 1: that national Democrats can be learning from how Betso talked

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Speaker 1: about immigration and any lessons that can be applied nationwide

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Speaker 1: for um the elections in the future. I'm really interested

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Speaker 1: in this, Jonathan too, And I'd love to hear Amy

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Speaker 1: and Briant's take on this, because obviously the cornerstone of

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Speaker 1: President Trump's last ditch efforts to do well in these

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Speaker 1: mid terms was to talk about the caravan pretty much

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Speaker 1: seven and two Stoke, I think some fear about immigrants

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Speaker 1: and the people who were escaping poverty and violence in

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Speaker 1: Central America through Mexico. So um, and I was pretty

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Speaker 1: surprised how well Betto did. Um. I guess I had

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Speaker 1: read some premature obituaries about him prior to election day.

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Speaker 1: But but what about the way that immigration is being portrayed?

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Speaker 1: Does this, you know, go right along party lines? Brian

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Speaker 1: and Amy? And what lessons can national candidates learned from this.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I just view that as such an interesting

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Speaker 1: race because Cruz was about as narrow a red candidate

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Speaker 1: as Texas has produced for a major statewide office in

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Speaker 1: a while. Um, and Texas is still just Republican enough

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Speaker 1: that by consolidating the people who like what Trump's doing,

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Speaker 1: who identify as conservatives, he was able kind of just

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Speaker 1: to get over the line. Um what Betto did. That's

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Speaker 1: differ weren't than you know, any Texas Democrat pretty much

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Speaker 1: for the last twenty years. Is he was able to

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Speaker 1: take a lot of moderate suburban voters in places outside

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Speaker 1: Dallas and Houston and convinced them that he's bigger and

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Speaker 1: maybe a little bit different than a typical national Democrat.

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Speaker 1: And even though he was pretty liberal per Amy's point

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Speaker 1: about authenticity, people liked him. And a lot of those

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Speaker 1: people just didn't like Ted Cruz. They thought he had

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Speaker 1: taken his eye off the ball by running for president,

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Speaker 1: spending more time in Iowa than in Texas. So, you know,

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Speaker 1: he was able to come close, but I think some

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Speaker 1: of the ideological positions that he took probably resulted in

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Speaker 1: him being you know, just short in the end. And

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Speaker 1: before Jonathan goes Jonathan, what do you hope is in

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Speaker 1: Bettos future? Do you think that you know, he got

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Speaker 1: a huge influx of money from National Democrats. Uh, he

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Speaker 1: was sort of the it guy of these mid terms

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Speaker 1: in many ways. What do you think is in his future? Well?

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Speaker 1: As as someone that's that's so inspired by watching the

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Speaker 1: type of effect that he's had on grassroots organizing in

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Speaker 1: the state. UM, I think that his ability to inspire

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Speaker 1: people to act and to get moving is really really

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Speaker 1: inspiring for the future of Texas. I'd very much like

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Speaker 1: to see him run his race because I think he

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Speaker 1: still has a race and a message that he's still

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Speaker 1: ready to share with the rest of America. Well, Jonathan,

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Speaker 1: thanks so much for calling in. It's really nice to

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Speaker 1: talk to you, and thanks for listening to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for having me. I appreciate that we're going to

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Speaker 1: talk now to Bailey from Nevada, not Nevada. From Nevada

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Speaker 1: is on the on the line. Bailey, Hi, thanks so

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Speaker 1: much for calling in and welcome to our podcast. Hi,

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Speaker 1: how are you good? Good, nice to hear your voice.

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Speaker 1: What is your question or concern? Um? Well, I was

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Speaker 1: wondering your take, so in Nevada we've had a blue

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Speaker 1: wave now twice in both sen UM. We almost had

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Speaker 1: a we might have a super majority in our legislature

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Speaker 1: as of twenty nine vote, so we'll find out. But

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Speaker 1: I'm wondering why what you think is different about Nevada

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Speaker 1: where we've had the blue wave that we've kind of

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Speaker 1: expected nationally as a repuation of Trump politics, and other

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Speaker 1: states haven't. Well, you know, Brian is probably a good

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Speaker 1: person to answer that question because his mom is Hailes

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Speaker 1: from Las Vegas originally. And Brian, you spent a lot

431
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 1: of time in Nevada, and Amy, I'm sure you could

432
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 1: weigh in, and I'm just going to keep quiet and

433
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:44,159
Speaker 1: listen to you both. Yeah, I claim status as an

434
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 1: honorary Nevada and UM. Well, the big difference in Nevada

435
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 1: that has really transformed the state's politics in the last

436
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 1: few cycles is the diversifying electorate, particularly in Clark County,

437
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 1: which is Las Vegas, also in Reno UM, and we've

438
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,199
Speaker 1: seen a surge of Latino voters and also urban and

439
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 1: suburban voters who are just voting a heck of a

440
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:11,879
Speaker 1: lot more democratic than they used to. It's also a

441
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:16,359
Speaker 1: state where Trump lost UM in two sen where his

442
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:20,199
Speaker 1: approval rating isn't great, and the approval rating of the

443
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:23,639
Speaker 1: president has been a pretty good predictor of elections all

444
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 1: over the country. The fascinating thing to me about Nevada

445
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 1: is it it is different from some of these other

446
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 1: Western states. All the Western states are unique. They're all beautiful.

447
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:35,680
Speaker 1: I wish I could live in one of them. Um.

448
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 1: But uh, but you know, Colorado looks very different than

449
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 1: many of its neighbors, not just because it um, it

450
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 1: has a more diverse population, especially Latino and African American,

451
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 1: but also it has had, especially in the last ten

452
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 1: fifteen years, a huge influx of college educated, UM, white voters.

453
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 1: You have a whole bunch of tech companies moving into

454
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 1: Colorado sort of a you know, a whole bunch of

455
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 1: folks from other states moving to Colorado, especially young people

456
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 1: into the Denver area, and that's really transformed Colorado from

457
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 1: being a swing state or red leaning state to one

458
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 1: that is more purple. Nevada, on the other hand, is

459
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 1: one where you do have again huge influx of population,

460
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 1: but it's not um the same kind of voters. UM.

461
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 1: You have a higher proportion of white, non college educated

462
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 1: voters in Nevada, they make up a really significant base

463
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 1: of vote. What keeps Nevada from being a Republican quite frankly,

464
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 1: are the Latino vote and the ability that Democrats have

465
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 1: to really energize and turn out and organize and turn

466
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 1: that vote out. And that is really a vestige of

467
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 1: former Senator, former Majority Leader Harry Reid, who put that

468
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 1: infrastructure in play. You know, Nevada if it looks much

469
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 1: more like more of a working class blue color state

470
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 1: than a state like Colorado. Bailey, I'm just curious. You

471
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 1: sound a little young, am I am? I right about that? Okay,

472
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 1: well then you're young. So I'm just curious if you

473
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 1: don't mind my asking, um how you voted, and if

474
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 1: you don't want to tell us, that's fine too, But

475
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 1: how you voted and how you're feeling about the results

476
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 1: of the mid terms. Um, yeah, I voted blue. I

477
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:38,200
Speaker 1: typically always do, although I think prior to Trump's I

478
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 1: would have done Nevada as a state where we do

479
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 1: tend to vote Nevada first. I think a lot of

480
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 1: Democrats would have loved a third term from our Republican

481
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 1: governor that is leaving. So I did vote blue, and

482
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 1: I am excited about that, and I the only question

483
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 1: I had as a response was the Harry Reid machine

484
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 1: that you alluded to, we really credited as a culinary union.

485
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 1: So I'm wondering what you got from other unions. Yeah, states,

486
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 1: did they go blue or read last night? Because both

487
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 1: of our swings, I think we can credit to the

488
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 1: culinary unions or the unions just not as powerful. And yeah,

489
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 1: that's a that's a really excellent point. I'm glad that

490
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 1: you brought that up. And Um, in other states, you're

491
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 1: right where labor has especially states that where Republicans have

492
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 1: been in charge, labor unions UM have been undercut by

493
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 1: some of the legislation that has been passed in those states,

494
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 1: places like Wisconsin, for example. I think Michigan is one

495
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 1: place where labor remains a very potent force. But you're right,

496
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 1: it is Nevada that has some of the best organizing

497
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 1: And it wasn't that unique twenty years ago to have

498
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 1: this strong of a labor presence being able to quote

499
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 1: unquote deliver a state. Um, that's how Pennsylvania and Michigan

500
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 1: and Ohio worked for years. But in Wisconsin, but that's

501
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 1: no longer, that's no longer the case. Bailey, thank you

502
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 1: so much for calling. Really appreciate it, and thanks for

503
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 1: listening to the podcast. It was fun talking to you. Yeah,

504
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 1: thank you, Amy. Thank you so much for spending some

505
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 1: time with us hashing this all out. It's complicated, as

506
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 1: you said, I think further complicated by no simple narrative

507
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 1: and no kind of clear cut takeaway, sort of all

508
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 1: over the map, but we always appreciate your perspective and insight.

509
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for doing this Aime. There's a ton

510
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 1: of fun. Thanks so much, Brian. I loved hearing from

511
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 1: all those listeners, and I want to thank them again

512
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 1: for calling in. That was a lot of fun and

513
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 1: we really do appreciate their time. Yeah, I do too,

514
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 1: And remember you can always call in with your questions

515
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 1: and comments on the show. Our number is nine to nine,

516
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:56,239
Speaker 1: two to four, four, six, three seven. Now we're going

517
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,240
Speaker 1: to take a quick break and coming up presidential historian

518
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 1: Doug Brink that's right after this. Now let's get back

519
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 1: to the show, Brian. As you know Harry Truman what said,

520
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 1: there's nothing new in the world except the history you

521
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 1: do not know, So we thought it would be helpful

522
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 1: and instructive to help us better understand recent events by

523
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 1: talking about the past. And who better to do that

524
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 1: with us than Doug Brinkley. Doug is a history professor

525
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 1: at Rice University. He's written several books about presidents from

526
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 1: FDR to Gerald Ford. Happens to be an incredibly nice

527
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 1: guy as well, and when I was anchoring the CBS

528
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 1: Evening News, I brought him in as our resident historians.

529
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 1: So we go way back, Brian, and that's where I

530
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 1: first met Doug. He's a great guy. So here he

531
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 1: is with his take on what happened on the first

532
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 1: Tuesday in November. Doug Brinkley, thanks so much for joining

533
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 1: the podcast. We're super excited to have you. Well, thank you, Katie.

534
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 1: So surprise, surprise, We're gonna look at the mid terms

535
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 1: from a historical perspective with you. Um. On average, since

536
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:13,239
Speaker 1: World War Two, presidents lose twenty five seats in their

537
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 1: first mid term in the House. Obviously, President Trump performed

538
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 1: worse than that, and at a time with a booming

539
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:25,319
Speaker 1: economy that sixty percent of voters say is good. So

540
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 1: how do you explain the Republican losses at a time

541
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:33,920
Speaker 1: when the economy seems to be doing really, well, well,

542
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 1: it's a great question. Um. You know, Donald Trump isn't

543
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 1: just a Republican president. He is a movement person, a

544
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 1: right wing movement figure, and because of that, he's had

545
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 1: a limited box office appeal. It's been very hard for

546
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 1: President Trump to get anywhere around in public popularity. He's

547
00:34:56,239 --> 00:35:01,760
Speaker 1: usually around forty four percent. That's low. So he only

548
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:07,520
Speaker 1: he has a freneticum appeal to um a certain segment

549
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 1: of the American public, but he doesn't seem to be

550
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,840
Speaker 1: able to grow his box office any and hence some

551
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:17,760
Speaker 1: urban areas in particular seem to be disgusted with President

552
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:21,800
Speaker 1: Trump's leadership. If you really just mapped this midterm election,

553
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 1: looked at cities and suburbs, you will see that they

554
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:31,239
Speaker 1: they're not buying into the Republican program, but rural America

555
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:34,879
Speaker 1: is in love with President Trump. It's interesting. James Carville says,

556
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 1: it's the economy stupid, but the economy will only take

557
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:42,920
Speaker 1: a leader so far. Doug, exactly, Katie. I mean, the

558
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 1: economy is important. In fact, some people are are saying

559
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 1: Donald Trump should have just run on Kavanaugh and the economy,

560
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 1: not Kavanaugh. In the caravan that may have been a mistake.

561
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 1: Hindsight's easy and will never know. It's not an empirical

562
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 1: fact we can make. But it's teams that President Trump

563
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 1: made a mistake. Not just sticking with his economic message.

564
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 1: He thought he had to fire up his base on

565
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:13,280
Speaker 1: this caraman of Hondurans, you know, marching towards our border.

566
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 1: He did put out a racist ad that even Fox

567
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 1: News how to take down. But how do you know

568
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 1: that didn't work, Doug, How do you know that didn't work? Well?

569
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:26,360
Speaker 1: It didn't work because he lost congress Um and it

570
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 1: did it help him pick up a Senate seat or

571
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:33,760
Speaker 1: two perhaps, but the Senate math was pretty much in place.

572
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,920
Speaker 1: So what he did was discussed a lot of young people,

573
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 1: and you're seeing the numbers of young voters coming in.

574
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:45,760
Speaker 1: I'm here katiean in at Rice University in in Houston, Texas,

575
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 1: and it was bet Omnia in the state of Texas.

576
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 1: Now he lost, but their Democrats are making picked up

577
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:57,839
Speaker 1: congressional seats in in Texas. Trumpians like Will Heard, who

578
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 1: were like should have never lost lost in Texas because

579
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 1: people don't like particularly people at universities of America don't

580
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 1: like the idea of the wall, and particularly don't like

581
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:14,800
Speaker 1: racist infused rhetoric that we've heard too often from the president. Doug,

582
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:18,800
Speaker 1: I can't think of an American president in recent history

583
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 1: with so narrow an appeal who sort of never seems

584
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 1: to get beyond Am I missing someone? No, I mean

585
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 1: we've had presidents that have done badly in polling. I

586
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 1: mean Harry Truman was particular moments, of course, Yeah, at

587
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,760
Speaker 1: particular moments, Harry Truman was at like twenty seven percent.

588
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:41,279
Speaker 1: But um in in of course, he's now considered one

589
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 1: of our great American presidents. So it means Donald Trump

590
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:47,879
Speaker 1: can do something about his predicament. But he would have

591
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 1: to pivot to get above that forty four. It's frozen

592
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 1: with the economy this well, and we haven't engaged in

593
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 1: a major new war, and he's frozen at forty four.

594
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 1: To get up to fifty, he would have to do

595
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 1: a bipartisan deal. This sort of what's almost become a

596
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:06,440
Speaker 1: mythical idea in the last two years of Democrats and

597
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:10,320
Speaker 1: Republicans doing something big on infrastructure would have to happen.

598
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,920
Speaker 1: You know, Jack Kennedy one in nineteen sixty by just

599
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 1: a margin over Richard Nixon and Kennedy decided I'm going

600
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 1: to unite the people, and he he adopted let's go

601
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:22,399
Speaker 1: to the moon. By the end of the decade, made

602
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:25,479
Speaker 1: technology big and even brought a lot of so called

603
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:30,120
Speaker 1: pork dollars to place states like Texas and Mississippi, Florida.

604
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 1: And so in the end, m Trump needs to find

605
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 1: something that brings in some Democrats and independence, not just

606
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:40,400
Speaker 1: be a base politician. And I should know this, but

607
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 1: what happened to Kennedy in the mid terms, Well, you know,

608
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:48,160
Speaker 1: Kennedy in nineteen sixty two was able to maintain at

609
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:51,800
Speaker 1: a sixty two approval rating in sixty two somewhere around

610
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:55,319
Speaker 1: that in the sixties and was able to hold on um.

611
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:58,359
Speaker 1: They lost a few Senate seats Democrats, but they're able

612
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 1: to keep control of of the House and Senate. So

613
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:04,400
Speaker 1: there's an example of a mid term where Jack Kennedy

614
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:07,320
Speaker 1: united the country. That would have been what Trump should

615
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:10,759
Speaker 1: have tried for. Instead, he did his own math and

616
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 1: realized that he wants to be seen as the savior

617
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 1: of the Senate. He had Mitch McConnell working with him,

618
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 1: and they've used Paul Ryan as sort of the fall guy.

619
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 1: That Ryan was somebody who wanted to focus on the economy,

620
00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:28,439
Speaker 1: and Trump overruled him and said immigration. It is historically

621
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 1: when presidents have faced an opposition Congress, as President Trump

622
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:38,280
Speaker 1: will starting in January, how have they used that opportunity

623
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 1: to advance their agenda or to advance themselves politically? In

624
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 1: other words, what lessons should President Trump take from Clinton, Obama,

625
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:52,080
Speaker 1: Reagan and others about how to work with or against

626
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:55,720
Speaker 1: an opposition Congress. Well, it's going to be a big choice.

627
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,719
Speaker 1: He remember we talked a lot about Ronald Reagan befriending

628
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 1: Tip O'Neill and head Kennedy, Um, and they became pals.

629
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:07,279
Speaker 1: Can Donald Trump become friends with Nancy Pelosi? Can he

630
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:10,319
Speaker 1: invited for dinner? Can he talked to Pelosi and say,

631
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:13,360
Speaker 1: look at when the country needs a couple of big

632
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 1: things that we all do together, can you bring some votes? Um?

633
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 1: Can we work together? The problem is the Democrats right

634
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 1: now don't want to be in a photo op with

635
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:27,840
Speaker 1: President Trump. Um. They're already gearing up for about fifteen

636
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:30,799
Speaker 1: Democrats are probably gonna end up running for president when

637
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:35,279
Speaker 1: it's all said and done, and they're running against Trump's persona,

638
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 1: his big mouth, his Uh, his racist banter. Is that

639
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:42,960
Speaker 1: sort of depressing? Because what I'm gathering from your comments, Doug,

640
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:47,279
Speaker 1: is that it's it's to both parties benefit to not

641
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 1: work together, and that Donald Trump seems to thrive when

642
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:57,360
Speaker 1: he has someone to demonize, whether it's the media or Democrats,

643
00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 1: and the Democrats want to continue along this path as

644
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:05,880
Speaker 1: well because it will galvanize their base and Democratic voters

645
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:08,840
Speaker 1: in general. Exactly right. So we may not have moved

646
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 1: any the ball forward very much after the midterms. People

647
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:15,879
Speaker 1: always asked, do you know, are we more divided than ever?

648
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:19,960
Speaker 1: I was asked that question yesterday when I was being interviewed, Um,

649
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 1: and I don't know. What do you What do you

650
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 1: say when people ask that? Do you talk about Vietnam,

651
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 1: Dutah obviously, the civil ward, But do you think it's unprecedented?

652
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 1: The polarization we're witnessing now? It's extreme. You have to

653
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 1: go back to Vietnam when where country was divided between

654
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:40,360
Speaker 1: hawks and doves, when civil rights exploded, and it was

655
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:44,680
Speaker 1: you know, George Wallace versus Martin Luther King. Um. The

656
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 1: problem I see right now is the Democrats are going

657
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:50,280
Speaker 1: to go after Donald Trump's tax returns and the Muller

658
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:54,960
Speaker 1: investigations coming, and Trump's gonna say that this is harassment.

659
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:57,920
Speaker 1: I'm being harassed by the Democrats. That's gonna be the

660
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:02,359
Speaker 1: big new word, UM, congressional harassment of the president. Um.

661
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:06,399
Speaker 1: And the Democrats are ionic, isn't it It is. He's

662
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 1: gonna be complaining about harassment and there's gonna be a

663
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:12,240
Speaker 1: demand for and the Democrats are saying we want transparency

664
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:16,960
Speaker 1: and government. Those words transparency versus harassment, I think they're

665
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:19,560
Speaker 1: gonna be used coming up. But we've seen it worse

666
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:23,359
Speaker 1: than American history. I was thrilled last evening. I look

667
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:26,200
Speaker 1: for little things that are As a historian, they jumped

668
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 1: out of me that there were two Native American women

669
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:31,520
Speaker 1: that are now in Congress, and that's that's the first

670
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:34,600
Speaker 1: and there too, and that's quite exciting. So we can

671
00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 1: see they the omni American story, all sorts of different

672
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:44,880
Speaker 1: types of American zone getting elected. Hundred and seventeen women

673
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 1: being elected to Congress at last counting that. I mentioned

674
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:51,560
Speaker 1: that on my Instagram feed, and I was accused of

675
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:57,280
Speaker 1: being sort of practicing identity politics, and I basically said,

676
00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 1: you know, listen, we want our representatives to truly represent

677
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:07,040
Speaker 1: the diversity of this country. And that's not to suggest

678
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:09,440
Speaker 1: you vote for a woman simply because she's a woman,

679
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:15,239
Speaker 1: but certainly women women's voices need to be heard and

680
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 1: exercised on Capitol Hill and elsewhere. They're the majority of

681
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 1: the country, of the population, baby, Yeah, that have been

682
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 1: really underrepresented, only got the right to vote, as Doug

683
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 1: well knows, uh in nine twenty. So that's uh, that's

684
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:34,360
Speaker 1: a little different than being kind of an interest group

685
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 1: to me. Well, you know what was underplayed is um

686
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 1: Jackie Rosen's victory in Nevada. She beat Dean Heller, a

687
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 1: conservative Trumpian Republican. But Nevada now has two women's senators

688
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:50,719
Speaker 1: in the last you know, say, eight years. Um, Nevada

689
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:53,360
Speaker 1: has become a blue state. Yeah, we talked all about

690
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:55,440
Speaker 1: that with a caller, Doug. There were a lot of

691
00:43:55,480 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 1: conversations or speculation and accusations about voter suppression, particularly in

692
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 1: Georgia and in Florida as well. Can you help us understand, uh,

693
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:11,120
Speaker 1: if these were accusations or if there's evidence that this

694
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:14,439
Speaker 1: was really happening. Certainly, Brian Kempt, the Secretary of State

695
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:17,960
Speaker 1: who was running against Stacy Abrams, was kind of in

696
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 1: charge of these issues with Jimmy Carter said was inappropriate

697
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:25,400
Speaker 1: he should step down from that role during the election.

698
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 1: But um, are we going to know for sure if

699
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:32,520
Speaker 1: there were cases of voter suppression and how can you

700
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:34,800
Speaker 1: shed light on that for us? I think in Georgia

701
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:40,239
Speaker 1: they're going to be lawsuits looking into voters suppression and

702
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:43,960
Speaker 1: ways to disenfranchise the voting in the state of Georgia.

703
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:47,400
Speaker 1: You mentioned, Katie, Jimmy Carter, you know, back in nineteen

704
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 1: sixty two. I believe he ran for the State Senate

705
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:54,759
Speaker 1: of Georgia and loss, but he sued and challenged and

706
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:57,600
Speaker 1: found that it was an illegal vote against him, and

707
00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:00,320
Speaker 1: he ended up getting his political career up in going

708
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:04,759
Speaker 1: by challenging. Uh. I see Stacy Abrams doing that. She's

709
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:08,360
Speaker 1: going to challenge this result for the next month. But

710
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 1: it's hard to do turnarounds and elections, and you'd have

711
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 1: to find true, you know, voter um suppression, UM causes,

712
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:18,480
Speaker 1: it's a legal issue at this point. We saw a

713
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:23,600
Speaker 1: real ratcheting up of racial rhetoric and racial tensions around

714
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 1: this election. UM. Lots of nasty stuff said about Jewish

715
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:31,440
Speaker 1: and African American candidates for office, As you mentioned the

716
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:34,760
Speaker 1: President putting out an ad about Latinos that even Fox

717
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:38,480
Speaker 1: wouldn't run. When was the last time that we had

718
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:43,719
Speaker 1: so bitter a racial and cultural divide around an election?

719
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:49,360
Speaker 1: I think nineteen sixty eight when Um Nixon and Hubert

720
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:53,680
Speaker 1: Humphrey and George Wallace ran. Wallace became the insurgent third

721
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:58,320
Speaker 1: party candidate and took a lot of Southern Democrats along

722
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:01,120
Speaker 1: with him and later would bring a lot of Midwest

723
00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 1: voters to him. George Wallace. Wallace is a factor in

724
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:08,879
Speaker 1: our modern times because Trump has really modeled himself after

725
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:12,000
Speaker 1: a kind of demagogic fashion like U. E. Long or

726
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:16,360
Speaker 1: George Wallace of the South stromp Thurman. And Trump's also

727
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:18,919
Speaker 1: moved in on the Ross Piro vote. You know, Russ

728
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:22,840
Speaker 1: pro got nine percent of the vote in as a

729
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:26,440
Speaker 1: third party candidate, and that was all against NAFTA. The

730
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 1: sucking sound of the jobs you hear are going up,

731
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:33,600
Speaker 1: you know, going leaving America from Mexico. Trump stole that message.

732
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 1: So he's created a new identity for the Republican Party.

733
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:39,360
Speaker 1: And I guess if there's an upside for Donald Trump

734
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:43,080
Speaker 1: last night, it truly is Trump's party. I don't think

735
00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 1: there's anybody within the party structure that's going to be

736
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:49,480
Speaker 1: able to dent Donald Trump's power. It's going to be

737
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:52,720
Speaker 1: up to the Democrats to take him down. In Doug,

738
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:54,920
Speaker 1: one of the long term trends that we saw a

739
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:59,120
Speaker 1: play out in this election was the defeat of moderate

740
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:03,120
Speaker 1: senators who can work across the aisle um. On the

741
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:08,560
Speaker 1: Republican side, we saw some retirements, um because Republican senators

742
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:12,799
Speaker 1: who opposed Trump couldn't win their primaries. Democratic senators who

743
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:16,799
Speaker 1: are more moderate couldn't get reelected in Trump e states. Um.

744
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:20,720
Speaker 1: What does that portend for the Senate's ability to forge

745
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:26,239
Speaker 1: consensus and craft bipartisan legislation. I think the Senate is

746
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 1: just going to be a rubber stamp for Donald Trump. Now,

747
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:33,400
Speaker 1: they're gonna work hard to do more federal judges in place,

748
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:36,880
Speaker 1: and if they're lucky, get yet a third Supreme Court

749
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:40,839
Speaker 1: nominee chosen, perhaps down the line. I don't see much

750
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:43,800
Speaker 1: coming out of the Senate. Uh. That's why Dick Durbin

751
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:47,880
Speaker 1: will probably become the leading voice constantly saying that the

752
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:51,120
Speaker 1: Senate is worthless and does nothing, and they're they're not

753
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 1: listening to the Democrats in the Senate. The all eyes

754
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 1: now shift to Congress. The person of the moment is

755
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:02,440
Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi, a survivor in American politics. She now is

756
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:05,600
Speaker 1: going to be having to hurt all the Democratic cats,

757
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:10,720
Speaker 1: all the different characters together and decide whether they try

758
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:14,600
Speaker 1: to do an early nineteen deal with Trump or just

759
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:19,120
Speaker 1: be resist him and and and make Trump the foe

760
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 1: of the American people. It's yet to be seen, but

761
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:26,080
Speaker 1: Pelosi is a new power broker. She's been one for decades,

762
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:28,600
Speaker 1: but I think now we have to look at her

763
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:32,560
Speaker 1: as a giant in American history because she is the

764
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:36,520
Speaker 1: one big check on Donald Trump. And I'm sure she's

765
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:41,239
Speaker 1: going to be his newest, juiciest target. If you will, yes,

766
00:48:41,719 --> 00:48:44,120
Speaker 1: He'll try to do a deal maybe with her, and

767
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 1: if she rejects it, he will double down, triple down,

768
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:51,200
Speaker 1: and just pound away at Nancy Pelosi. And if we're

769
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:55,200
Speaker 1: wondering what Donald Trump's attitude towards her might be, he

770
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:58,480
Speaker 1: tweeted the day after the election. In all fairness, Nancy

771
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:01,240
Speaker 1: Pelosi deserves to beach shows and Speaker of the House

772
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:03,399
Speaker 1: by the Democrats. If they give her a hard time,

773
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:07,360
Speaker 1: perhaps we will add some Republican votes. She has earned

774
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:10,840
Speaker 1: this great honor. Maybe a bit of a backhanded compliment,

775
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:14,680
Speaker 1: you would prefer that she's his foe. Well, I do

776
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:17,960
Speaker 1: think that it's in Donald Trump's interest right now. And

777
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:21,000
Speaker 1: he said to try to tone things down to maybe

778
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:26,840
Speaker 1: try to do one big infrastructure um deal with the Democrats. Basically,

779
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:29,439
Speaker 1: if he can convince Pelosi to take a time out

780
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:32,759
Speaker 1: for a few months and then start in early nineteen

781
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:36,160
Speaker 1: and get one big thing done on the Democrats, might

782
00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:38,759
Speaker 1: be game for that. Um, that's what he's trying to

783
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:42,640
Speaker 1: do now. He's actually trying to charm Nancy Pelosi. If

784
00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:46,480
Speaker 1: that gets rejected and instead there's this attempt to get

785
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:51,479
Speaker 1: at as tax returns soon, Um, once Congress goes back

786
00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:54,080
Speaker 1: in a session, then you'll see a war between Pelosi

787
00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:56,719
Speaker 1: and Trump. It's it's unsure which way it will go.

788
00:49:56,880 --> 00:49:59,759
Speaker 1: It'll end up badly between the two. But there might

789
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:02,759
Speaker 1: be honeymoon there for about four or five months. There

790
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:05,480
Speaker 1: will be plenty to talk about or listen to on

791
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:10,040
Speaker 1: cable news, depending on your network of choice. Has all

792
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:13,080
Speaker 1: of this unfolds, Doug, always great to have you and

793
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:15,160
Speaker 1: to talk to you. Thanks so much for doing this.

794
00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:20,640
Speaker 1: Thanks so much. Thanks, Katie and Brian enjoyed it. That

795
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:23,319
Speaker 1: does it for us today. The team that produces this

796
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:27,520
Speaker 1: show is producer Emma Morgan Stern, associate producer Noura Richie,

797
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:31,960
Speaker 1: audio engineer Jared O'Connell. Special thanks to Andy Kristen's for

798
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:34,440
Speaker 1: pitch hitting on the mix this week, as well as

799
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 1: Chris Hoff and Paul Anchor at k KWI D, the

800
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:41,800
Speaker 1: venerable public radio station here in San Francisco, Brandon Martin

801
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:45,360
Speaker 1: and Houston, Lizzie Peabody in Washington. We are all over America.

802
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:47,600
Speaker 1: I was going to say a cast of thousands and

803
00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:50,680
Speaker 1: a big round of applause to my assistant Beth Dems

804
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:55,560
Speaker 1: and my social media master Julia Lewis. Jared Arnold composed

805
00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:58,200
Speaker 1: our theme music. You can find me on Twitter at

806
00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:01,640
Speaker 1: Goldsmith b. You can follow Katie incessant Instagram, and I

807
00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:04,600
Speaker 1: mean that in the nicest way possible. You can follow

808
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:07,600
Speaker 1: her on Twitter or Facebook. She's on all of those sites.

809
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:10,200
Speaker 1: As you guessed it, Katie Current. If you want to

810
00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:12,280
Speaker 1: tell us what you think about the show or ask

811
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:15,359
Speaker 1: us a question, please write to us at comments at

812
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:18,759
Speaker 1: currect podcast dot com or leave us a voicemail at

813
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:23,480
Speaker 1: four four six three seven. Thank you so much for listening,

814
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:25,320
Speaker 1: and we'll talk to you next week.