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Speaker 1: I want to switch gears to some more personal stuff

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Speaker 1: because that's what we do here. If you don't mind, depends, Okay,

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Speaker 1: you can say no, but I was wondering, depends. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to Off the Cup, my personal anti anxiety antidote. I'm

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Speaker 1: a big fan of TV. I don't watch as much

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Speaker 1: now that I'm on it and listen the Bravo schedule

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Speaker 1: keeps me very busy. But I love TV and I

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Speaker 1: really love sitcoms, good ones. There aren't many good ones

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Speaker 1: these days, but back in the nineties, man, you couldn't

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Speaker 1: flip on the TV without landing on a great sitcom.

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Speaker 1: One of those iconic classic sitcoms was Wings, and even

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Speaker 1: today it has such a cult following. My producer Lauren

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Speaker 1: in fact, says it's our favorite show of all time.

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Speaker 1: I'm so happy to have one of the stars of

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Speaker 1: that show on the pod. He's done so much Wings,

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Speaker 1: Stephen King, miniseries, n cis once and again, Desperate Housewives

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Speaker 1: Without a Trace, Curb, He's done TV, film, stage, truly

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Speaker 1: a renaissance man. It's Stephen Weber. Welcome to Off the Cup.

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Speaker 2: Hi, se Hi, I'm.

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Speaker 1: So glad that we're here together too.

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Speaker 2: Same thank you. I've always been a fan of yours,

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Speaker 2: and so I love your work and so I'm happy

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Speaker 2: to be here.

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Speaker 1: That's so nice. And back at you, I'm a fan

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Speaker 1: as well. I always like to start by asking, you know,

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Speaker 1: this podcast is biographical, we're getting to know you. I

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Speaker 1: always like to start by asking, what kind of kid

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Speaker 1: were you?

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Speaker 2: Kind of kid was I? I mean, I was a

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Speaker 2: fairly precocious kid. I realize now that I was trying

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Speaker 2: to get the affection of my parents and people around me.

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Speaker 2: I did a lot of code switching, even before there

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Speaker 2: was a term. I tried to fit in with any

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Speaker 2: group that I found myself among. Yeah, my household was

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Speaker 2: a kind of a showbiz household. My father was an

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Speaker 2: agent and manager of comedians and singers in the Borsch

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Speaker 2: Belt and in New York nightclubs, and my mom had

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Speaker 2: been a nightclub singer in the fifties and that really

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Speaker 2: kind of classic cool cigarettes and suits and you know, nightclubs,

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Speaker 2: very cool, and you know, and in that world there

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Speaker 2: was a degree of dysfunction. So I found that I

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Speaker 2: was able to find acceptance and make friends and keep

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Speaker 2: people from beating up on me by doing imitations and

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Speaker 2: my being precocious, and my sister, who's no longer with us,

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Speaker 2: was always heard to say shut up to me all

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Speaker 2: the time because I just would not shut the hell up.

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Speaker 1: Like Matt Well, we all need sisters to do that.

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Speaker 2: Once in a while, exactly keep you in place.

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Speaker 1: So, I mean, amidst the dysfunction, was it also because

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Speaker 1: I was reading a little bit about about your parents,

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Speaker 1: was it also like a very creative household?

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Speaker 2: I mean, it wasn't creative in the sense that we

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Speaker 2: were artists or there was a kind of an air

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Speaker 2: of artistry or craftsmanship in the air. Was very kind

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Speaker 2: of Broadway Danny Rose esque environment that I was exposed to,

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Speaker 2: not as low rent, but so it was less about

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Speaker 2: being creative and more practical and in a way kind

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Speaker 2: of a street smart approach to show business. Any creativity

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Speaker 2: was nascent and kind of emerged later on us.

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Speaker 1: Did you know you wanted to go into the business early?

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Speaker 2: I myself did not know anything so clearly, as much

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Speaker 2: as I just found myself on this path. I was

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Speaker 2: doing school plays and like I say, doing imitations to

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Speaker 2: get grown ups to laugh. But my parents sort of

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Speaker 2: nudged me in that direction. I had done some commercials

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Speaker 2: when I was a kid in the era of the

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Speaker 2: sixty second commercial, you know that type of thing. In

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Speaker 2: the sixth I just found myself in this, on this path,

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Speaker 2: and so I didn't really know it. I was just

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Speaker 2: in it.

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Speaker 1: Did you like it when you were in it as

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Speaker 1: a young person?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, because it gave me all this affirmation that maybe

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Speaker 2: I didn't really know that I needed or wanted in

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Speaker 2: the applause and laughter, And.

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Speaker 3: I began to find that I was applying all of

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Speaker 3: those things that I had developed out of a psychological

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Speaker 3: need to be accepted, applying it in a world that

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Speaker 3: valued it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, those were the tools that were required to, I guess,

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Speaker 2: find a monoicum of success, if that makes sense.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. When I was young, I got into ballet, and

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Speaker 1: like the competitive, yelling and Russian kind of ballet, not

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Speaker 1: like the fun costumes and fun music. So it's really

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Speaker 1: really tough. And because it was so competitive and they

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Speaker 1: were so brutal to us, I stuck with it way

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Speaker 1: longer than I probably should have because I was chasing

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Speaker 1: that affirmation right, But with it it came a lot

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Speaker 1: of rejection as well. And I imagine acting is a

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Speaker 1: similar kind of experience. You get this affirmation that feels

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Speaker 1: so good, but also a lot of rejection.

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Speaker 2: Well, I would agree, and in a way, I think

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Speaker 2: that that helps you find a more balanced approach psychologically

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Speaker 2: and emotionally. Believe it or not. Even though actors, even

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Speaker 2: more than dancers, are very easily denigrated as being flighty

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Speaker 2: or airy or you know whatever, they actually, for the

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Speaker 2: most part, are very reasonable, kind of balanced people. They

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Speaker 2: could be effusive, and they could.

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Speaker 4: Be outrageous or flamboyant occasionally or self centered, but for

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Speaker 4: the most part, whatever affirmation they find or are seeking

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Speaker 4: is absolutely counterbalanced by the amount of rejection that they

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Speaker 4: that they encounter.

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Speaker 2: And it's not wholly destructive. It isn't. I mean, it

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Speaker 2: can be if you have the kind of mentoring that

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Speaker 2: is toxic. I mean it sounds like anybody you know

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Speaker 2: holding a stick and yelling at you yes and be terrible.

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Speaker 2: It was terrible, got terrible. I look, I went to school,

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Speaker 2: I went to high school in college for theater, and

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Speaker 2: knew lots of dancers, and of course all the pimply,

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Speaker 2: geeky actors were staring at the dancers who were like

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Speaker 2: standing at the bar and then pleaing with abandoned. But

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Speaker 2: when I went to school, it wasn't well. It was tough,

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Speaker 2: especially very rigorous for dancers. It didn't never approach the

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Speaker 2: kind of you know, dictatorial kind of abuse, yeah, that

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Speaker 2: I have heard people have endured. I'm very sorry. Are

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Speaker 2: your feet well formed or are you still on point?

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Speaker 1: My feet are terrible. My body is a little messed

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Speaker 1: up too. But mostly the damage was psychological. And you know,

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Speaker 1: being a young girl going through all the changes that

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Speaker 1: young girls go through and all the insecurities anyway, was

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Speaker 1: like the worst time to be told you're fat, or

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Speaker 1: you're lazy, or you're awful, or why aren't your feet better?

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Speaker 1: You know, that was just all bad. It was all bad.

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Speaker 1: And eventually I quit in the nick of time. But

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Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't fun.

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Speaker 2: Do you feel nauseous when you see a piece of rosin?

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, I haven't thought about rosin in so long.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god.

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Speaker 2: No.

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Speaker 1: And there's a lot of like ballet stuff on TikTok

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Speaker 1: where people are showing like how they prepare their point shoes,

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Speaker 1: and oh my god, does it just flood of memories

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Speaker 1: And I'm trying, I'm working with my therapist, trying to

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Speaker 1: put that in a place where it's not such a

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Speaker 1: terrible memory. But it wasn't great.

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Speaker 2: But are you're a relatively new parent, aren't you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, My son's nine.

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Speaker 2: And is he exhibiting any kind of attraction to the

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Speaker 2: arts in any way you like to perform, is like

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Speaker 2: to sing act.

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Speaker 1: He's a ham. He wouldn't be drawn to anything very

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Speaker 1: organized or structural or formal, And so we're trying not

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Speaker 1: to turn him off from the things he loves, like

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Speaker 1: music with like formal instruction. We're waiting for him to

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Speaker 1: maybe express an interest in doing that, because right now

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Speaker 1: he just he loves We have a piano. He loves

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Speaker 1: sitting down at the piano and like self teaching how

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Speaker 1: to play songs, which is Grady loves singing. He does

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Speaker 1: love dancing, and I encourage trying everything with him. But

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Speaker 1: I would never let him. I would never let him

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Speaker 1: go into the kind of dance world that I ended

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Speaker 1: up in. I just wouldn't got No.

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Speaker 2: That sounds horrible, But on the other hand, there are

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Speaker 2: great things like theater camps or faced camps, which subtly

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Speaker 2: introduced a kind of structured world into the world that

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Speaker 2: you just describe every you just where.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like the fun of it.

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Speaker 2: The fun of it. Yeah, when they find other people

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Speaker 2: are having fun, their peers are having fun, then they

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Speaker 2: take to it and it takes them in a good way.

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Speaker 2: And I've always thought that having a kind of an

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Speaker 2: art arts based education, even especially in theater. And I'm

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Speaker 2: not talking about acting for movies or TV. That's a

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Speaker 2: different thing. Yeah, but theater is so instructive and well,

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Speaker 2: you learn so many things beyond basics. You learn about history,

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Speaker 2: you learn about socializing, you learn about other cultures you

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Speaker 2: and also you learn about yourself and yourself and the world.

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Speaker 2: And so it's actually very experiential. And I'm a big

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Speaker 2: advocate of arts education. And it's funny how it's so

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Speaker 2: often minimized in academic programs. I feel like it used

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Speaker 2: to play a much bigger role in the department of

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Speaker 2: other disciplines. I mean, you can't have science or architecture

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Speaker 2: or economics really without art, without an understanding any way,

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Speaker 2: blah blah blah blah blah.

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Speaker 1: No, I love that, And you're right. I mean, last

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Speaker 1: year he did like a Minecraft coding camp, caring into computers.

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Speaker 1: But you're right, and I did a lot of theater

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Speaker 1: stuff with as a kid as well, before ballet kind

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Speaker 1: of took over. And I loved it. It never felt

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Speaker 1: like it didn't feel like learning even it just felt

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Speaker 1: like fun, right, And yeah, no, I'll think about that.

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Speaker 1: That's good, please please, I will. I will back to you.

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Speaker 1: You start sort of formally on a soap, right, I yes.

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Speaker 2: When I got out of college, one of my early

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Speaker 2: jobs was on As the World Turns. I'd done theater

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Speaker 2: before that, a few theater things, but As the World

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Speaker 2: Turns was really my first big cool gig.

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Speaker 1: Did you like it?

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Speaker 2: Oh? It was incredible because it was it was everything

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Speaker 2: that I had kind of grown to want to be

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Speaker 2: a part of, which was the backstage, the technical aspects

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Speaker 2: of television production. I always liked the idea of an

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Speaker 2: actor in the fifties, you know, scruffy but you know,

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Speaker 2: running to take a class in the morning and then

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Speaker 2: doing a soap in the afternoon, and then doing a

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Speaker 2: radio show and then doing some theater and then taking class.

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Speaker 2: And this was a version of that. It was As

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Speaker 2: the World Turns, and I worked with all these amazing actors,

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Speaker 2: some of whom who had started in radio, and and

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Speaker 2: I was learning a lot so it was a great

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Speaker 2: early job.

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Speaker 1: How does the role of Brian Hackett come to you?

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Speaker 2: Good segue? Well, I mean that was, first of all,

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Speaker 2: it I was that guy in many respects. I was

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Speaker 2: a kind of a snarky, affable dickhead that was always

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Speaker 2: wise cracking and stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: And chasing skirts, chase.

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Speaker 2: Skirts, Yeah, bas of skirts, and no shame in that, No, no,

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Speaker 2: no no. And also it's it's fine, It's fine because

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Speaker 2: just a shirt, not necessarily whoever's in it, just.

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Speaker 1: The skirts fashion.

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Speaker 2: Fashion. And so that was something that was a character

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Speaker 2: that had obviously been written by the people that created

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Speaker 2: the show, and I just kind of stepped into it

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Speaker 2: and was, you know, lending my body to that character

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Speaker 2: that had already been written. What am I saying. I'm

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Speaker 2: saying that they had written an affably snarky, skirt chasing

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Speaker 2: guy and I was more or less that guy.

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Speaker 1: And it worked. But but you went up against I mean,

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Speaker 1: some very very famous people also auditioned for the Hackett Brothers.

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Speaker 2: Okay, tell me, I have no idea.

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Speaker 1: George Clooney, have you heard of him?

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Speaker 2: I guess?

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Speaker 1: So what's he up, Tonton? He doesn't do anything. Bryan Cranston.

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Speaker 1: Have you heard of that guy?

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Speaker 2: He did not audition for that role. I don't know

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Speaker 2: where you're getting this.

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Speaker 1: According to my research, yes he did.

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Speaker 2: Well, talk to your researcher because okay, impossible, I don't

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Speaker 2: think so.

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Speaker 1: First, David Duchovney, Well, here's the thing.

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Speaker 5: Possibly, you know, Look, we were all younger back then,

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Speaker 5: and we were all probably up for roles and either

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Speaker 5: went to the auditions and some got passed to the

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Speaker 5: next level, some didn't.

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Speaker 2: So technically speaking, maybe a lot of people were up

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Speaker 2: for it while they were trying to figure out who

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Speaker 2: would best fit this role.

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Speaker 1: Now, no, forget technically speaking, I think you need to

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Speaker 1: leave with I beat George Clooney for the role.

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Speaker 2: I would never start any sentence which beat George Clooney

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Speaker 2: for the role, because you know, it's a powerful dude. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 2: so I don't want to piss him off.

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Speaker 1: And he could be president one day.

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Speaker 2: You don't know, he could be. He might already have been.

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Speaker 1: He might right for a masshole like myself, I grew

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Speaker 1: up in Massachusetts.

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Speaker 2: Excuse me.

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Speaker 1: Wings was so fun and she had cheers as well.

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Speaker 1: Cheers was ours right, and there were so many crossovers

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Speaker 1: between Cheers and Wings. Talk about that.

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Speaker 2: There were a few. Well, Cheers was the biggest show going. Uh,

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Speaker 2: you know by the time they went off the air,

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Speaker 2: everybody on Earth watched the finale and everything. So we

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Speaker 2: were Wings wasn't offshoot from Cheers. The several of the

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Speaker 2: writers who began on Cheers developed Wings, and so it

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Speaker 2: was to my show's advantage to cross over. So we

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Speaker 2: had you know, we had a Norm and Cliff Claven

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Speaker 2: come over at one point, and then we had Fraser Fraser. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: they came over because.

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Speaker 1: They existed in the same universe essentially.

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Speaker 2: That's right, Which is I sort of hope that in

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Speaker 2: the Fraser reboot they bring you know, Brian back and

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Speaker 2: he's much much changed.

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Speaker 1: Me too, because the Fraser reboot takes place in Boston,

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Speaker 1: So I mean, I love this. He should be going

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Speaker 1: to Nantucket exactly. Yes, let's make this happen. You can

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Speaker 1: make it.

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Speaker 2: You make it happen. You have more work on me.

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Speaker 2: You have your own show.

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Speaker 1: We're going to work on it because it's the thing

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Speaker 1: I need to see.

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Speaker 2: No, it was great. It was a great time.

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Speaker 6: And first of all, it was sort of the the

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Speaker 6: the I say the last gasp, But it was towards

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Speaker 6: the end of that must see TV world network TV

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Speaker 6: feel that is not quite the same now with all

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Speaker 6: the streamers.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the show I'm currently on Chicago Med has

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Speaker 2: that feel that all this world news, it does network thing.

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Speaker 2: But you know, viewership has changed. The industry has changed

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Speaker 2: so substantially that it's it's a little different.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's what I was going to ask next. Like

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Speaker 1: I mean, I said in the intro that nineties was

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Speaker 1: like a golden age for sitcoms. That's how it felt

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Speaker 1: to me. Yeah, that's how it felt to you too.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, we were in it. I mean, first of all,

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Speaker 2: it was such a part of the culture NBC and

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Speaker 2: you know, whether it was Friends, Seinfeld, Err and that

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Speaker 2: there was everybody was on magazine covers remember magazines.

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Speaker 1: And oh yeah, I know what those are.

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Speaker 2: And and there was lots of swag and swagger, and

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Speaker 2: there was a lot more money and and it was

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Speaker 2: an appointment to television. So yes, the country did had

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Speaker 2: these same patterns of viewership that have become quite you

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Speaker 2: know different nowadays.

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Speaker 1: Well, I just remember going to school. Yeah, and like

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Speaker 1: you had to talk about that's right, Er, you had

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Speaker 1: to talk about party five. You had to talk about

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Speaker 1: what had just happened that Thursday night on the CTV,

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Speaker 1: like and everyone everyone watched. Yeah, And now you go

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Speaker 1: somewhere and it's like, are you watching X show on Netflix? No,

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Speaker 1: but I'm binging this one. It's so bifurcated.

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Speaker 2: It is bifurcated. It's decimated. You know, it's you know,

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Speaker 2: but it's it was a different time and arguably better.

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Speaker 2: It's hard to say this.

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Speaker 1: I say better.

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Speaker 2: Well, but there's lots of great shows out there now,

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Speaker 2: and I'm like you, I really don't watch any of them.

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Speaker 2: In fact, I've I've found real kind of solace and

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Speaker 2: watching old movies. I'm a Criterion guy and I turned

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Speaker 2: classics movie.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that.

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Speaker 2: So it just come. I'm in that world now and

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Speaker 2: I miss a lot of new, great, younger talent. But

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Speaker 2: who cares?

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Speaker 1: No, I do too, because I've since I think Seinfeld

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Speaker 1: and maybe The British Office were the last two good

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Speaker 1: sitcoms I watched. And when they rebooted The British Office here,

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Speaker 1: maybe it's because I was such a protector of the

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Speaker 1: British Office, I just I couldn't watch it. It made me mad,

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Speaker 1: it made me sad, and I think since then, none

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Speaker 1: of the sitcoms have really felt like they lived up

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Speaker 1: they measured up to the nineties sitcoms.

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Speaker 2: Well, whether you want to admit it or not, you're

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Speaker 2: from a different generation and I no, no, do that.

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Speaker 1: Just don't call me ma'am.

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Speaker 2: Sorry, sorry, dear, No, but times have changed.

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Speaker 1: No, you're right, and the change.

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Speaker 2: Was actually really rapid. One of the weird things that

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Speaker 2: I I think happened was that my generation, arguably yours.

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Speaker 2: I'm older than you, but we had the same references

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Speaker 2: that our parents had, social references that our grandparents had.

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Speaker 2: You know, everybody knew who Jack Benny was starting with, right,

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Speaker 2: and they were still in evidence even in the shows

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Speaker 2: that I watched as a as a young person, they

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Speaker 2: had Christmas specials, they were still around. And then suddenly,

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Speaker 2: you know, the advent of technology and iPhones and actually

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Speaker 2: the twenty four hour news cycle, which you are part of,

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Speaker 2: things kind of the page turned really quickly and and

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Speaker 2: all that went away. All that history was kind of

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Speaker 2: relegated to the attic, I suppose, And so now you know,

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Speaker 2: my this current generation is not it's just a different,

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Speaker 2: different rhythm, different energy and different expectations, and so you

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Speaker 2: know there are there actually are good shows there. There's

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Speaker 2: some fantastic shows. It's funny that you mentioned the English

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Speaker 2: the British Office. I'm a I love British television and

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Speaker 2: British and I sort of again found the kind of

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Speaker 2: sanctuary in that and all shows that are old in

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Speaker 2: Great Britain but were new in America from Yeah that

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Speaker 2: Are to you know, Faulty Towers of course, and and

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Speaker 2: even older things like are You Being Served? And all

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Speaker 2: classic funny, weird thing audiences haven't seen. But maybe it's

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Speaker 2: just it's just not our I can't include you in

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Speaker 2: my pathology.

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Speaker 1: It's o Ken, we're of a similar right, Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: it just got to give over to hand it over

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Speaker 1: to the TikTokers, I guess tkers. So what happens Wings

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Speaker 1: Wings goes off the air. I've interviewed a bunch of

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Speaker 1: actors for this, Henry Winkler being one who you know,

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Speaker 1: was like the most popular person, the most famous person

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Speaker 1: on the planet during Happy Days, and when that went

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Speaker 1: off the air, he expected lots of calls and they

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Speaker 1: didn't come. What happens for you when Wings goes off

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Speaker 1: the air.

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Speaker 2: Well. The interesting thing about Wings is that while it

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Speaker 2: was technically a hit, it was never the hottest, sexiest

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Speaker 2: or edgiest show. There were other shows around Wings that

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Speaker 2: took those those titles, and as such, there wasn't that

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Speaker 2: much heat on the show, so that when it was over,

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Speaker 2: I think me and Tim other actors, of course, you know,

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Speaker 2: Tom Church, yeah, schlub, we're able to transition into other

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Speaker 2: projects more easy. Yeah, And I mean I right after

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Speaker 2: Wings was over again, it was still that era where

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Speaker 2: there's that older television mentality, and I was I was

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Speaker 2: given a show to do. I was given a show

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Speaker 2: called The Weber Show was actually was called Cursor. It

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Speaker 2: only ran a season. Wasn't great, it wasn't terrible, but

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Speaker 2: it just wasn't anything. And in a sense, the energy

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Speaker 2: that I guess was embodied in Wings and in my

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Speaker 2: character had passed and they were moving on. But like

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Speaker 2: I say, it was a little easier for us to

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Speaker 2: transition because there wasn't so much heightened expectations. But it

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Speaker 2: took me. It took me a while to figure out

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Speaker 2: what the hell to do. I mean, I did a

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Speaker 2: lot of guesting. I started doing playing a lot of

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Speaker 2: characters that were not Brian Hackett. They were darker, they

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Speaker 2: were heavies, and I enjoyed that for a long time

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Speaker 2: until it sort of became untenable. It was just kind

390
00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:04,720
Speaker 2: of like I had to ask the universe after a

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Speaker 2: while to say, Okay, that's it. That's I'm done playing

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Speaker 2: these awful men. Can I please? Yeah, it's enough, But

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I did some theater and which I love,

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Speaker 2: and yeah, I've been lucky enough to have a working

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Speaker 2: actor's career ever since those heightened days of Wings.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean, anyone just looking at your credits,

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Speaker 1: I mean embodies like this is this is the definition

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Speaker 1: of a successful career, because you've just gotten to do

399
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Speaker 1: so much and you kind of keep reinventing and taking

400
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:43,879
Speaker 1: twists and turns. One of those is an incredible movie

401
00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:45,600
Speaker 1: called Single White Female.

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Speaker 2: You think that's an incredible movie.

403
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:49,360
Speaker 1: I do. I know it's can't be, I know, but

404
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:53,520
Speaker 1: it's so maybe because I was at an age, ah

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Speaker 1: where it really freaked me out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was definitely of its time. You know. It

407
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,440
Speaker 2: was that eighties genres hand that rocks the Cradle.

408
00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:02,840
Speaker 1: Yes, that's another one.

409
00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:05,640
Speaker 2: All that stuff that's scary movie. And yeah, and it

410
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:05,960
Speaker 2: was a.

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Speaker 1: Really weak movie out Wait, did you not think that

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Speaker 1: Single White Female was a good movie?

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Speaker 2: I mean it was. It's a campy movie and it

414
00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:17,040
Speaker 2: rarely comes to my mind anymore because it's been relegated

415
00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:21,439
Speaker 2: to that that kind of old fashioned genre that has

416
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Speaker 2: looked down on. It's very sexist and very you know,

417
00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:28,080
Speaker 2: kind of crazy. Although my character, who an affable another

418
00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:32,160
Speaker 2: affable skirt chaser, funny that he gets has come up

419
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:33,359
Speaker 2: and a very just.

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Speaker 1: He does classic way the heel I know. I mean, no,

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Speaker 1: I actually I did. I thought it was of a time,

422
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Speaker 1: but I thought it was a really suspenseful, oh thriller.

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Speaker 2: It works, It worked.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I was into it. Man, was that was that

425
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Speaker 1: very different for you? Or actually do you see it

426
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:54,960
Speaker 1: as sort of a similar kind of role?

427
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:59,040
Speaker 2: Uh? Different? Well, I mean it was. It was sort

428
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:01,440
Speaker 2: of a similar role. That it's the type of guy

429
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:04,000
Speaker 2: that I was playing and had been playing again that

430
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:07,600
Speaker 2: this anarchy dickhead, and this was and you know, this

431
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,600
Speaker 2: was a darker genre. And I was able to work

432
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Speaker 2: with director Barbee Schroeder who did the great movie Barfly,

433
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Speaker 2: you know, and and of course Jennifer Jason Lee and

434
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Speaker 2: Bridgid Fonda.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you shot in New York, right, we.

436
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:25,879
Speaker 2: Shot, Yes, we shot some some interiors in la but

437
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:27,919
Speaker 2: we shot in the city, you know, my hometown. We

438
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:31,600
Speaker 2: shot in the I guess the end. Sonia was the Yeah, exactly,

439
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:34,639
Speaker 2: that's right. And it was really fun. You know, it

440
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,120
Speaker 2: was so much fun. It was a long time ago.

441
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:38,920
Speaker 2: We had a lot of fun on that set.

442
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:42,440
Speaker 1: I can see that. So in two thousand and one,

443
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:45,800
Speaker 1: two thousand and two, you take over for Matthew Broderick

444
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:50,119
Speaker 1: in the Producers too. Yeah, it doesn't two. It's an

445
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:52,359
Speaker 1: iconic role that he and Nathan Lane had sort of brought,

446
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:56,040
Speaker 1: brought that show to Broadway from a Melbrooks movie to

447
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,760
Speaker 1: great acclaim. What was it like to take over that role?

448
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:08,040
Speaker 2: It was amazing and incredibly gratifying, was looking back. Of course,

449
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:12,920
Speaker 2: there were things that were a little discordant and odd.

450
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:16,040
Speaker 2: You know, the fact that I and another actor, a

451
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:19,000
Speaker 2: fellow named Henry Goodman, who was originally cast, who was

452
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:24,399
Speaker 2: an English actor, took over these now iconic roles. It

453
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,040
Speaker 2: was weird because, yeah, while I've been working and everything

454
00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,440
Speaker 2: wouldn't I wasn't considered the type of level of star

455
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:34,159
Speaker 2: that Matthew Broderick or Nathan Lane were, so it was

456
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:36,760
Speaker 2: a little odd. But then right at the beginning of

457
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 2: that run, Henry was let go and for whatever reasons,

458
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:44,640
Speaker 2: and I think I was close to being let go,

459
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:49,199
Speaker 2: but I was retained. And it turned out to be,

460
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:53,040
Speaker 2: of course, an incredible experience. To be on Broadway was

461
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 2: the height of an actor's dream, and to be in

462
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,239
Speaker 2: that show, which was at the time and maybe to

463
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 2: this day, the most successful and most highly awarded production

464
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 2: ever in the history of Broadway.

465
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:06,960
Speaker 1: Totally, it was the biggest thing on Broadway, the first.

466
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 2: Thing on Broadway and the next thing in New York.

467
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,160
Speaker 2: You know, we had billboards and and and.

468
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 1: The celebrities went every night.

469
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:16,680
Speaker 2: Everybody went the craft Jerry Lewis came by and he laughed.

470
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:20,639
Speaker 2: It was It was an amazing experience. And also I

471
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:22,840
Speaker 2: learned a lot apropos of our earlier part of the

472
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:26,679
Speaker 2: conversation about theater being a great place to learn. You

473
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 2: see things backstage that are so wondrous that make the

474
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:35,159
Speaker 2: things on stage look pale, and having to do with

475
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:41,520
Speaker 2: the craftsmanship and the the organization and the technical proficiency

476
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 2: of the crew and the dressers and the ensemble. It

477
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 2: was incredibly gratifying. I felt part of a family, a community,

478
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,880
Speaker 2: which is really important. It proved to be really important emotionally,

479
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 2: emotionally for me.

480
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,200
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, I love Broadway. I'm a big fan

481
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:04,160
Speaker 1: of musicals, end plays, and I always imagine this duality

482
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 1: that it's both the funnest thing one could do and

483
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,440
Speaker 1: also the hardest, because I see how hard actors work

484
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:12,959
Speaker 1: on Broadway and so many shows.

485
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 2: It's incredibly hard. I mean, there's there's a bunch of

486
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 2: dualities on doing Broadway. One is the glitzy, you know,

487
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 2: glittery side, yeah, and then the kind of seemy underbelly

488
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:27,520
Speaker 2: and you.

489
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,880
Speaker 1: Know of like backstage right, Yeah, your dressing rooms are

490
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:35,200
Speaker 1: like cockroach infested and there it's.

491
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 2: Gritty and dingy, and that's part of the appeal. You

492
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:44,200
Speaker 2: feel like you're doing something that requires effort. You know. Again,

493
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,199
Speaker 2: I love working on TV, but it's a totally different,

494
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 2: totally different experience. You know, you really feel like you're

495
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:55,119
Speaker 2: part of something that is thousands of years old when

496
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 2: you do the play and there's so much community again

497
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 2: involved in it, and you're just a cog in the wheel.

498
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:04,640
Speaker 2: There's something kind of nice about that. But look, there's

499
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 2: no there's no getting away from the fact that when

500
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:11,360
Speaker 2: you walk to work and there's your walking looking look,

501
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 2: I'm reliving it now. I'm looking at I'm looking at

502
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 2: the theater Marquees and it was Times Square. Yeah, it's amazing.

503
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 2: It really is incredible.

504
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 1: And just to think, like, who else has been in

505
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 1: my dressing room over the past one years.

506
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 2: There's ghosts in there. I did a play in England

507
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 2: at the Old VIC and I mean the Ghosts of

508
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:36,359
Speaker 2: Olivier and oh my god, everybody. It was really tremendous

509
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:38,360
Speaker 2: and it's it'sable. You can really feel it.

510
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 1: I can feel it just by listening to talk about it.

511
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:43,439
Speaker 1: That's so cool. I want to switch gears to some

512
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 1: more personal stuff because that's what we do here. If

513
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:50,960
Speaker 1: you don't mind, depends, okay, you can, you can say no, but.

514
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:54,920
Speaker 2: I I'm wearing depends.

515
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 1: Just an aside apropos of nothing I'm wearing depends.

516
00:27:57,600 --> 00:27:57,639
Speaker 2: No.

517
00:27:57,760 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 1: I was wondering if you could tell me about your

518
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:01,160
Speaker 1: your first mayor you were pretty young.

519
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 2: My first marriage, Well, yeah, I mean I was young.

520
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:09,239
Speaker 2: It's funny sixty three now and when I look at

521
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 2: people who are twenty four twenty five years old. For

522
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 2: the most part, I think, don't get married you don't

523
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:19,200
Speaker 2: understand what you're about to do. And similarly, I didn't

524
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 2: really understand what marriage was. I met my first wife.

525
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,640
Speaker 2: We were on a soap and she was from a

526
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:34,680
Speaker 2: very different upbringing than I had, and I suffice to say,

527
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 2: it didn't It didn't work out for a variety of

528
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 2: reasons that predated our marriage. I mean, she had things

529
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 2: in her background, and not in her background, but in

530
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 2: her family that just kind of blossomed into into things

531
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 2: that didn't feed the relationship. And again I was too

532
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 2: young to even understand who this person was, let alone

533
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 2: marry them, let alone how to be in a relationship.

534
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 2: And in a way, it was lucky for us that

535
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 2: we broke up, because it would have been really, really brutal.

536
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 2: It was all. It had already gotten difficult by the

537
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 2: time we did break up. But it's hard to talk

538
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 2: about these things because at least it's really because she's

539
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:22,960
Speaker 2: still alive and she's still trying to figure stuff out,

540
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 2: as we all are. But you know, nobody gets out

541
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 2: of this life unscathed, right, And you know, I realized

542
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 2: that marriage and having a family and being a parent

543
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,760
Speaker 2: are all things that we think we understand until we

544
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 2: actually get there.

545
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 1: Man, is that true?

546
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 2: And I mean even at this stage of the game.

547
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 2: I have two sons and they're twenty one and twenty three,

548
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 2: and you know, the years from and you'll see, I

549
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 2: guess the years from thirteen to eighteen are the hardest

550
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,120
Speaker 2: part of parenting that I ever ever experienced. And then

551
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 2: there's another thing that after that that is also challenging.

552
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 2: The the the so called tough, exhausting part of lugging

553
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 2: diapers and potty training and feeding and you know, lugging

554
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 2: everything around. That's easy, Yes, it's easy.

555
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 1: Well tell me what was what was so tough about

556
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 1: the teen years?

557
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 2: The teen years is, uh, is when they are battling

558
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 2: their own hormones and the the inundation by social media

559
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 2: and society at large is right? Yeah, And also as parents,

560
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 2: I mean, as speaking for myself, I had a lot

561
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 2: to learn about who I was and what I needed

562
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 2: to be and the type of male role model that

563
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 2: I needed to be for my sons. You can't. I

564
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 2: began to think after a while that you know, boys,

565
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 2: I mean women, It's very general and you could roll

566
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 2: your eye but women are tethered to the earth. They're

567
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 2: tethered to the active creation and to nature. Men not

568
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 2: so much. Men have lost their purpose in a manner speaking,

569
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 2: and so they need to be taught. And the way

570
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 2: to teach men, I think, is to model a kind

571
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 2: of behavior. And when I was a kid, I didn't

572
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 2: have kind of healthy male role model. I just didn't.

573
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 2: I took a lot of my cues from kind of

574
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 2: toxic masculinity, broken men, you know, guys, and in movies,

575
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 2: you know, and I kind of fell in love with

576
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 2: that stereotype that Boguart, that kind of Eugene O'Neil cigarette

577
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 2: smoking broken and I thought, oh, this is so romantic,

578
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 2: and I kind of emulated that to a certain extent,

579
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 2: and guess what, it turns out to have been incredibly unhealthy.

580
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 2: So I had to many years later kind of relearn

581
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 2: before I before I turned my own sons into kind

582
00:31:55,840 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 2: of broken men. So it's hard. It's hard to And

583
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 2: another hard part about parenting, uh, these older kids is

584
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 2: eventually when they go to school, to to move back,

585
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 2: to give them the room to grow and to not

586
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 2: try to control them and try to impose an idea

587
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 2: of success upon them that may have worked for.

588
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 1: Me, right, they not work for them right.

589
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 2: And it's so hard. Okay, it's so difficult. I have

590
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 2: I have a lot of the answers. I have the answers.

591
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 1: Frank just ask me.

592
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 2: You got it right here? No, you don't want to know. Okay,

593
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 2: it's hard art, you know, and you become, you become

594
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 2: the person that you wish you had growing up. I mean,

595
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 2: I'm not saying you necessarily. Yeah, And they don't want

596
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 2: it because it's part of it's part of how they

597
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 2: have to grow. I suppose.

598
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 1: It's tough. I mean, I'm you know, listen, I learn

599
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 1: a lot from my kid. Yeah, he's his special needs,

600
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 1: and so I learn a lot about the way he

601
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 1: thinks about the world. And I think the way he

602
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,040
Speaker 1: thinks about the world is really cool. But at the

603
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 1: same time, I'm so protective and I just want to

604
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 1: wrap him in bubble wrap, which I know you can't do.

605
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 1: And like you say, I'm also trying to break cycles

606
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 1: of the past. Things that you know, intentionally or otherwise

607
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 1: unintentionally happened a generation behind me, and that happened to me,

608
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 1: and then I don't you know, they're just so much

609
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 1: going on in your mind as a parent of things

610
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 1: you want to do, and then in the moment things

611
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 1: you just have to do, and you do kind of

612
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 1: sloppily and hastily, because in the moment it's a lot.

613
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 2: It is a lot. One thing that I heard, one

614
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 2: kind of little story was that, And it's always ascribed

615
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 2: to some an early tribe and you know whatever, in

616
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 2: whatever culture where the father would take the son out

617
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 2: of the kind of the nest of the home, where

618
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 2: the home is more let's run by the matriarch, the mother,

619
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 2: who does all these all the nurturing, all the caring.

620
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 2: But the father had to take the son out in

621
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 2: this ritual and basically bring him into the forest and

622
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 2: put him on top of a rock.

623
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,400
Speaker 1: Let's stop already, no, already, absolutely no.

624
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 2: Well, hold, it's just a story, all right.

625
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 1: The anxiety already, Oh, forget it.

626
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:29,920
Speaker 2: Wait, it's a nightmare. And and and he says to

627
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:34,759
Speaker 2: the son, all right, I'm going to blindfold you. You

628
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,279
Speaker 2: have to stay on top of this rock all night,

629
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:41,960
Speaker 2: from sundown to sun up, and keep the blindfold on,

630
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:44,839
Speaker 2: no matter what you hear around you, no matter what

631
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 2: animals you hear, no matter what rustling, no matter what,

632
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:50,799
Speaker 2: and you cannot get down off this rock. And when

633
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:54,719
Speaker 2: you feel the first raisin, start to cry, son, and

634
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 2: you're on your face, then you can take it off.

635
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 2: The kid, terrified, agrees, puts him up there, puts the

636
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 2: blindfold on, and the kids stays there all night, and

637
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 2: he hears the most terrifying sounds and feels the cold

638
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 2: on his skin, and the hours go by, hours go by,

639
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 2: and finally feels the warmth of the son on his face,

640
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:17,560
Speaker 2: and he takes the blindfold off, and the father was

641
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 2: there the whole time, you know, just just off. Okay.

642
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 2: So I don't know, I'm not sure why that moves me,

643
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 2: except to say it's a type of love that that

644
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,279
Speaker 2: I wish I was able we were able to kind

645
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 2: of express as simply as that, because it empowers the

646
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 2: person and all and you know, and look, it's not

647
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:48,080
Speaker 2: exclusive to two men, but but it's it shows both

648
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:52,279
Speaker 2: love and also trust in this child and fields their resilience.

649
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 2: And so much in the society as geared towards distracting

650
00:35:56,120 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 2: from that and towards you know, entertaining and and and

651
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 2: then the toxic versions of fat, which is really a

652
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 2: pain in the ass. So That's what I learned, almost

653
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:13,719
Speaker 2: too late to hopefully transmit to my own sons, to

654
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 2: sort of stop the chain of dysfunction that was leached

655
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:18,319
Speaker 2: down to me.

656
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you've transmitted it to me.

657
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:25,880
Speaker 2: Well, now you've really put your kid. Oh it's a killer.

658
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:27,839
Speaker 2: I mean, there's all sorts of things like that which

659
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 2: are simultaneously practical and spiritual.

660
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:32,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, right right, it's to be built.

661
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 2: So much to be found in that type of relating

662
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:36,920
Speaker 2: of information.

663
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:54,840
Speaker 1: You mentioned distractions, and I think one of the biggest

664
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 1: distractions we all have to wrestle with this social media,

665
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 1: not just as it pertains to our kids, but at

666
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 1: our own mental health. You're very active on social media,

667
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:06,360
Speaker 1: You're very good at it. Is that a fun outlet

668
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:07,759
Speaker 1: for you?

669
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:11,399
Speaker 2: No, I think it's more a product of a kind

670
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:16,440
Speaker 2: of addictive behavior which sound like a conspiracy for you.

671
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:18,839
Speaker 2: I think is built into the algorithm. It's built into

672
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:23,239
Speaker 2: why we use you know, why this thing is with

673
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:27,279
Speaker 2: me twenty four to seven, and I'm aware of it

674
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 2: and worried about it. I think that my contributions to

675
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 2: social media, and I use that word in italics, contributions

676
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 2: are ultimately meaningless. On the one hand, I have met

677
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 2: people and connected, You've been one.

678
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:45,880
Speaker 1: Of them the same, Yeah, exactly.

679
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 2: But I think at the end of the day, it's

680
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:52,239
Speaker 2: just a kind of a rage aggregator, and it's just

681
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 2: about volume rather than substance.

682
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:54,959
Speaker 1: Yeah.

683
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:57,920
Speaker 2: And I don't think it's been the best thing in

684
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 2: terms of bringing people's inner lives out, because it's so

685
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 2: easy to be in one's basement or to be in

686
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 2: one's bubble and type out the least regulated thoughts, thoughts

687
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 2: that either need to be kept in or told to

688
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 2: somebody in confidence, or told to a therapist or something.

689
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:26,320
Speaker 2: And it's created a kind of a landscape of a

690
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 2: division and dysfunction that I think is not good. And

691
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:32,760
Speaker 2: people will defend it by calling it freedom of speech,

692
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 2: but I don't know. I think there's something else going

693
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 2: on that when the history of this era is writ

694
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:42,759
Speaker 2: at some point it has to be taken into consideration.

695
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:50,239
Speaker 2: The mass appeal of this technical the technological I don't know,

696
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:53,640
Speaker 2: it's not even a megaphone. It's something more nefarious. Yeah,

697
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 2: I mean, it's like cigarettes, man, everybody has everybody. Ye,

698
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:01,279
Speaker 2: I'm not sure if it's so great. There are great things. Look,

699
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:04,960
Speaker 2: I appreciate being able to find certain people and connect

700
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:08,279
Speaker 2: with them and also get certain information, but it may

701
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 2: be robbing me. I mean, I don't know, I don't

702
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 2: know my kids' phone numbers anymore.

703
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:15,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you know what I mean. I when I

704
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 1: had like a total nervous breakdown a couple of years ago,

705
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:21,840
Speaker 1: and so got into therapy, and you know, I was

706
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 1: talking to my therapist about my day, which involves being

707
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 1: on social media and the news and a lot of

708
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 1: triggers for me. And we worked this thing out where

709
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:33,040
Speaker 1: she said, I feel like you go on social media

710
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:36,279
Speaker 1: like a lot of people very passively, which I would do.

711
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 1: I would do it waiting online, in the grocery store,

712
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 1: waiting for an elevator, in between breaks on TV on set.

713
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:46,600
Speaker 1: I would do it for lots of reasons one borden.

714
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:51,800
Speaker 1: One to validate myself, like what are people saying about me?

715
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:56,640
Speaker 1: One to maybe pick some fights, sure, maybe also to

716
00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 1: learn some things. But it was always passive. And she said,

717
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 1: try going on more intentionally, And we came up with

718
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 1: this idea that, like it's a grocery store, you don't

719
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 1: go into the grocery store waiting for things to jump

720
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 1: into your cart. You know what, you want, and that's

721
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:13,280
Speaker 1: what you leave with. And when you go on social

722
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:16,399
Speaker 1: media passively, all kinds of shit jumps into your cart

723
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:18,799
Speaker 1: that you weren't there for, that you don't want, that

724
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:22,200
Speaker 1: is bad for you, and you don't even know it's happening.

725
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 1: So I think that was really helpful for me because

726
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 1: I have to use social media absolutely, you know, but

727
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:30,200
Speaker 1: that was a helpful way for me to sort of

728
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:31,719
Speaker 1: put some boundaries on it.

729
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 2: Look, the key one of the key words is passivity.

730
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.

731
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:39,279
Speaker 2: And this kind of passivity that's been induced, kind of

732
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:44,919
Speaker 2: a mass passivity and where people are not actively engaged

733
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:50,960
Speaker 2: in living that this is what passes for socialization. It's

734
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 2: such an ironic, you know, moniker social social network, it's

735
00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 2: an anti social network. Yeah, completely, because you don't ever

736
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 2: have to leave. You don't ever have to leave anywhere

737
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 2: to find to get a wealth of of data and information.

738
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:08,400
Speaker 2: But you know, we have bodies for a reason. One

739
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:10,320
Speaker 2: of the things that bugs made about the technology is

740
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 2: that it approximates what we already have. You know, I'm

741
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:17,880
Speaker 2: not saying I I for a life without GPS, but

742
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 2: god damn it, you know, I drove around LA with

743
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 2: a you know, the Thomas Guide had to do it.

744
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 2: You know, I got into some stupid argument with a

745
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 2: bunch of people online about cursive. Why do we need cursive?

746
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:34,480
Speaker 2: People say, and of course I made my jokes that

747
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:36,880
Speaker 2: My joke is that my sons went to all these

748
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:40,799
Speaker 2: progressive arty schools and they're lovely guys and they're great musicians,

749
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:44,360
Speaker 2: but their signatures looks like somebody stabbed them through the

750
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 2: hand with a pen. Smash their feet, smash them had,

751
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:51,239
Speaker 2: you know, and they're terrible. And somebody said, well, so

752
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:53,839
Speaker 2: what nobody uses it anymore? But I said, it's like, look,

753
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 2: it's nobody grows up learning penmanship so they can be

754
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 2: a fantastic calligraphy or connective tissue. It's you know, it's

755
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 2: the physical and the intellectual, and you need it. And

756
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 2: you already have vision, We already have thoughts, we already

757
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:13,720
Speaker 2: have imagination. But with you know, AI and all this stuff,

758
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:16,560
Speaker 2: it's making me. It's worrying me because we won't need

759
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 2: our bodies anymore. We'll just be brains resting on tongues.

760
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:23,120
Speaker 1: I love that. I love that brain's resting on tongues.

761
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:25,799
Speaker 2: That'll be the when we form our company podcast, that

762
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:28,760
Speaker 2: will be the symbol of brain resting on a tongue.

763
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 1: Perfect. Love it. Okay, I have a lightning round which

764
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 1: is called a.

765
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:36,240
Speaker 2: Cup of Weber, and I love that cup of Weber.

766
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 1: Love it. Okay, we're doing it. Okay, I have a

767
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 1: lightning round which includes a short wings quiz. If you

768
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:50,479
Speaker 1: don't mind, I don't care.

769
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:52,960
Speaker 2: I don't care anymore.

770
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:59,920
Speaker 1: Okay. The airport was named.

771
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:01,800
Speaker 2: Uh Tom nevers Field.

772
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:04,120
Speaker 1: Correct? Who was Tom Nevers?

773
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:08,400
Speaker 2: Oh? Well, actually Tom Nevers was a Native American I believe, yeah.

774
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:08,719
Speaker 1: You got it.

775
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 2: I don't know what he did.

776
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 1: According to tradition, he kept watch for wales from a

777
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:16,880
Speaker 1: station on the high point of Nantucket's southeast corner that

778
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:20,480
Speaker 1: bears his name. Huh, but you got it, I mean that, yes,

779
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:23,239
Speaker 1: you got it all right. What was Helen's dream.

780
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:25,799
Speaker 2: Job, Oh, to be a cellist.

781
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:31,400
Speaker 1: Why was Brian expelled from the NASA astronaut training program?

782
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:39,120
Speaker 2: Oh as, I think he he accidentally he accidentally sharded

783
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 2: when he was on the no on the centrifuge. I

784
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:45,080
Speaker 2: don't know.

785
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 1: Your answer is better no, apparently because he took too

786
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 1: many dates into the simulator.

787
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:55,400
Speaker 2: God, I mean that whole you know, that whole whole

788
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 2: kind of prototypical male. Hey cool, it's so nauseating to

789
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:02,320
Speaker 2: me at this true, so annoying.

790
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:05,080
Speaker 1: What what is the theme song?

791
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:09,320
Speaker 2: Oh, that's I want to say Mozart, isn't it Mozart?

792
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:16,760
Speaker 1: It's Schubert, but yeah, yes, yeah, it's it's a version

793
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:20,240
Speaker 1: of the rondo from Piano Piano Sonata and a major

794
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:21,400
Speaker 1: bye bye front Schubert.

795
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:23,319
Speaker 2: And now I and did you ever dance to that?

796
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 2: Did you ever have to do dance.

797
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 1: To a lot of Schubert? Absolutely good?

798
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 2: Did you have a pianist? Did you have a live accompanies?

799
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:32,319
Speaker 2: Of course, of course, I think that's fantastic. Okay, So

800
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:35,440
Speaker 2: I went to Sunny purchased State University Purchase and Jacques

801
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:39,759
Speaker 2: Dmboise was the dean dance right and again when all

802
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:42,760
Speaker 2: the pimply male actors were kind of drooling on the windows,

803
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:47,040
Speaker 2: they had accompanist and they had you know, guys throwing

804
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 2: them in the air, and it was superb oh god,

805
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:52,280
Speaker 2: And they all smoked cigarettes and ate bags of chicks

806
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:53,600
Speaker 2: and walked. Turned out.

807
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 1: That part of it was really awesome. And I grew

808
00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:00,719
Speaker 1: up with like a big repertoire of classical music just

809
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 1: in my head from the age of six to eighteen

810
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:06,360
Speaker 1: when I stopped, and by the end I was dancing

811
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:09,359
Speaker 1: professionally at Boston Bala and I had a class with Barishnikoff.

812
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:14,480
Speaker 1: I had a class with very famous dancers. So that part.

813
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:17,840
Speaker 2: Now you share a dressing room with Jake Tapper.

814
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:24,800
Speaker 1: Bless, it's not the same. But no, but that part

815
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:27,160
Speaker 1: was very cool. And I'm always very proud of my

816
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:30,880
Speaker 1: musical education through through ballet because I didn't have to

817
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:33,279
Speaker 1: study it. It was just in my head every day

818
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:35,480
Speaker 1: for hours and hours and hours, and I loved that.

819
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:37,880
Speaker 2: Oh. Look, I went to high school performing arts and

820
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 2: my best friend was a classical guitarist. Oh and so

821
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:44,440
Speaker 2: you know, rather than get high and listen to a CDC,

822
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:49,359
Speaker 2: he would play Bach, you know, he would play And

823
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 2: I got a classical music education.

824
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 1: Awesome.

825
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 2: Yeah.

826
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:57,160
Speaker 1: Well, now, even so many years later in my sort

827
00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:01,800
Speaker 1: of anxious life, when I'm really anxious, classical music calms

828
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:04,759
Speaker 1: me down immediately. It's my sort of my my trick.

829
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:07,719
Speaker 1: So I'm grateful for it. Okay, we're done with the

830
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:13,480
Speaker 1: wing squiz. You passed with Flying Colors, TV or theater, theater,

831
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:19,160
Speaker 1: monk or psych ha, I'll have to say Monk yeah,

832
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:21,600
Speaker 1: best sitcom of all time.

833
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:25,279
Speaker 2: I mean for me, it's a toss up between Blackadder,

834
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:30,319
Speaker 2: which is England and I'm a Sanford and Son psychopath.

835
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:34,319
Speaker 1: Oh wow, yeah, look what's happening. I know when you

836
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:34,799
Speaker 1: do this.

837
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:43,360
Speaker 2: Or maybe psychopathic. I'm saying I watch sanfran Son. It

838
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:45,880
Speaker 2: kills me, It kills.

839
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:47,040
Speaker 1: It's a classic. It's a classic for a reason.

840
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:51,200
Speaker 2: It's amazingly hon Esther is everything to me. I would

841
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:52,760
Speaker 2: have married Lawanda Page.

842
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:57,720
Speaker 1: I mean you would have destroyed Yeah, these are great answers. Okay,

843
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:02,040
Speaker 1: who's a real person that you'd like to play either stage, TV, whatever?

844
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:02,800
Speaker 1: A real person?

845
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:07,920
Speaker 2: I mean, it's terrible. I never think of this stuff

846
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:11,759
Speaker 2: real person will like to play. I mean, I don't know,

847
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:14,920
Speaker 2: let's skip that. It's too hard, it's too many. I

848
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:16,400
Speaker 2: don't know, that's a hard question.

849
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:17,160
Speaker 1: That's okay.

850
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:18,040
Speaker 2: Sorry.

851
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:22,400
Speaker 1: Maybe it's like a version of Bogart when he's younger,

852
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:23,400
Speaker 1: well the.

853
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:25,120
Speaker 2: Younger, No, no, no, I mean, first of all, he

854
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:30,080
Speaker 2: died when he was like fifty six. He died so young.

855
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:32,920
Speaker 2: I mean I'm oldimate already. I mean, I don't know

856
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:40,080
Speaker 2: somebody who's heroic and not a not a.

857
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:44,279
Speaker 1: Dick okay, okay, we'll look for that role for you. Okay, please, yep.

858
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:46,880
Speaker 1: The last question is always the most important one because

859
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:51,759
Speaker 1: it's important to me spiritually, culturally, and otherwise. When is

860
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:52,920
Speaker 1: iced coffee season?

861
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:56,280
Speaker 2: Oh god, when isn't that's.

862
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:56,880
Speaker 1: The correct answer.

863
00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:59,280
Speaker 2: So you're round, Oh you're around in winter.

864
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:01,440
Speaker 1: The correct answer.

865
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:04,480
Speaker 2: I'm on a coffee hiatus because the caffeine was making

866
00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:08,160
Speaker 2: me mental. Okay. And and and you know the first

867
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:12,600
Speaker 2: two days after getting off caffeine. Yeah, oh oh, you

868
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:15,880
Speaker 2: think that's it. I'm having I'm having an aneurysm in

869
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:16,319
Speaker 2: that sense.

870
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:17,400
Speaker 1: Yeah.

871
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:21,359
Speaker 2: And and and the the best thing for that is

872
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:22,560
Speaker 2: et cetern migrain.

873
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:23,440
Speaker 1: Okay.

874
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:26,440
Speaker 2: Why there's a little bit of caffeine in it?

875
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:28,759
Speaker 1: Oh, so like weans you off a little bit.

876
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:31,920
Speaker 2: Weans you off. And brother, it's it's everything. But I

877
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:32,880
Speaker 2: love coffee.

878
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:36,399
Speaker 1: I love coffee, but ice coffee. It's ice coffee all day,

879
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:36,799
Speaker 1: every day.

880
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:39,319
Speaker 2: Okay, ice coffee. Yeah, ice coffee. But I feel I

881
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:42,560
Speaker 2: get jumpier with ice coffee. It makes it makes me

882
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:43,360
Speaker 2: well because.

883
00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 1: You're pulling, you're sucking it in faster. Yeah, you're not

884
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:49,320
Speaker 1: sipping it. Okay, we solved it. I think that's science.

885
00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:55,719
Speaker 2: You're never not going for it. You're like the ice

886
00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:59,319
Speaker 2: coffee of journalists going right.

887
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 1: This has been really fun. Stephen Webber, thank you so

888
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:03,879
Speaker 1: much for coming out.

889
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:08,239
Speaker 2: I've enjoyed it. I just I just bloviate. I'm sorry you.

890
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:12,080
Speaker 1: What, no, you don't. This was great. I mean I

891
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:14,960
Speaker 1: learned a lot. I cried a little, h laughed. It

892
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:19,560
Speaker 1: was great. Thank you, thank you. Coming up next week

893
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:23,240
Speaker 1: on Off the Cup, it's stage, silver screen and small

894
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:27,759
Speaker 1: screen actor Zachary Quinto. You did some drama in high school? Right?

895
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:35,920
Speaker 2: I did do? Yeah, she's reaching for there's actual footage.

896
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:44,200
Speaker 2: Is that you? Yes, we'll flaugh.

897
00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:48,480
Speaker 1: Off the Cup is a production of iHeart Podcasts as

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00:49:48,520 --> 00:49:51,520
Speaker 1: part of the Recent Choice Network. I'm your host Cup

899
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:55,120
Speaker 1: editing and sound designed by Derek Clements. Our executive producers

900
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:58,719
Speaker 1: are Messie Cup, Lauren Hanson, and Lindsay Hoffman. If you

901
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:01,239
Speaker 1: like Off the Cup, please rate and review wherever you

902
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:13,800
Speaker 1: get your podcasts, follow or subscribe for new episodes every Wednesday,