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Speaker 1: All right, fellow conspiracy realist, we're bringing this classic to

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Speaker 1: your attention because unfortunately it got a little bit prescient,

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Speaker 1: a little bit predictive. Did you guys see the news

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Speaker 1: about Amazon doubling down into the world of medicine. No, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Jeff's into it. Jeff wants to know. He wants to know,

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Speaker 1: like he wants to know what pills I'm taking, wants

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Speaker 1: to do everything. He wants to know when you poop,

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Speaker 1: he wants to know, like they're hand out waiting to

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Speaker 1: collect the sample. Yeah, Amazon Clinic has opened up. Amazon

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Speaker 1: recently bought a huge medical company, One Medical, and in

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Speaker 1: this flashback, we're talking about biomedical Big Brother I think

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Speaker 1: we called it, which is all about medical monitoring, right,

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Speaker 1: And this came out in twenty eighteen, and there's been

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Speaker 1: a lot of progress. You know, a lot of people

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Speaker 1: own fitbits, a lot of people own medical monitoring devices.

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Speaker 1: And the question is is this a life saving breakthrough

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Speaker 1: or is this another avenue of control? Or is it

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Speaker 1: six in one hand, half a dozen pills in the other. Oh,

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Speaker 1: it's all of that stuff. Guys. Look, we don't want

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Speaker 1: to make this intro too long. I just need you

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Speaker 1: to know We were recently at an airport, all three

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Speaker 1: of us, and I made a huge mistake. I went

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Speaker 1: into one of those stores where you tap your credit card,

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Speaker 1: you walk in, you take whatever you want, you walk out,

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Speaker 1: and your credit card gets charged, and it just knows

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Speaker 1: what I took. Getting to know you, dude. I had

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Speaker 1: an even weirder one than that. I was at Downtown

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Speaker 1: Disney or whatever it's called now in Orlando and I

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Speaker 1: went to a unique cloth just like a Japanese like

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Speaker 1: clothing brand or whatever, and you take your stuff, put

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Speaker 1: it in a bucket on the cash register, take you know,

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Speaker 1: checkout thing, and it knows what's in there. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if it's like R chips or wow, but it's you.

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Speaker 1: This episode all right, from UFOs to psychic powers and

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Speaker 1: government conspiracies, History is riddled with unexplained events. You can

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Speaker 1: turn back now or learn the stuff they don't want

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Speaker 1: you to know. Welcome back to the show. My name

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Speaker 1: is Matt and our compatrid Nol is a way at

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Speaker 1: the moment, but never fear. He will be returning very soon.

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Speaker 1: In the meantime, they still call me Ben. We're here

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Speaker 1: with our super producer Paul Deck and you are you,

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Speaker 1: and that makes this stuff. They don't want you to know.

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Speaker 1: Another person who works here. His name is Christopher Hassiotis.

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Speaker 1: He's on the research team at stuff Media. I guess

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Speaker 1: how stuff works stuff Media, and he sent us something

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Speaker 1: that he sent it to us yesterday I think, or

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Speaker 1: maybe the day before, and Ben and Olan I all

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Speaker 1: just went, oh, this is an episode that we are

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Speaker 1: producing right now and we can't wait to get you

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Speaker 1: into it. But we're not going to spoil it. The

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Speaker 1: first thing we're gonna do is just talk about health. Yes,

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Speaker 1: health medicine, What does it mean? Yes? Panaceas? Do they exist?

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Speaker 1: What is the cure for? What? All ails you? I

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Speaker 1: do want to say if you would like to hear

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Speaker 1: some of Christopher's other works, he is consistently recommending some

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Speaker 1: great stories for us to share on social media under

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Speaker 1: our various conspiracy stuff monikers. You can also hear Christopher

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Speaker 1: semi live and definitely in person behind a hot mic

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Speaker 1: by tuning into an excellent show that Lauren Vogelbaum produced

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Speaker 1: called How Stuff Works Now and it's sort of a

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Speaker 1: cavalcade of very interesting stories, So do check that out.

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Speaker 1: In the meantime, as Matt said health. Yes, and I

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Speaker 1: gotta tell you, I gotta tell you, Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt,

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Speaker 1: when we when we think about health in this day

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Speaker 1: and age, you know, it's no secret that there are horrible,

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Speaker 1: horrific things going on in the world. Yes, Zimbabwe, as

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Speaker 1: we record this is currently on the tea reading and

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Speaker 1: closer to the brink of destabilization. YEA earthquake in Iran

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Speaker 1: Iraq border there just killed five hundred something thousand or

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Speaker 1: five hundred people. Puerto Rico also devastated by a hurricane,

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Speaker 1: killings in the United States, the Pacific, the Pacific region,

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Speaker 1: the Pacific theater is inching closer and closer to a

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Speaker 1: nuclear exchange. But despite all of these horrible things, Oh,

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Speaker 1: and someone keeps making Transformer movies, Paul, looking at you. No, no, no,

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Speaker 1: actually I watched Transformer movies too. But despite these horrific things,

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Speaker 1: which are not jokes, and the terrible jokes we make

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Speaker 1: about terrible things, you have to sit back and admit, overall,

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Speaker 1: we as a species have it pretty good right now,

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Speaker 1: especially in a medical sense. I mean absolutely. Can you

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Speaker 1: imagine getting sick five hundred years ago, even a hundred

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Speaker 1: years ago, getting sick to the point of needing let's

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Speaker 1: say a surgeon. Oh boy, yeah, yeah, And depending on

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Speaker 1: kind of how far back in the timeline we go,

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Speaker 1: needing a surgeon becomes increasingly disturbing. It's the worst. You know.

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Speaker 1: It's like the old story about barber poles and how

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Speaker 1: they came about. You remember that, right? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. So,

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Speaker 1: way back in the day in Western Europe, there was

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Speaker 1: this concept that barbers were also inherently qualified to be surgeons,

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Speaker 1: the argument being that, well, if they can figure out

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Speaker 1: how to cut your hair, they should be capable of

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Speaker 1: cutting anything else. Yeah, a lot of people died, A

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Speaker 1: lot of good people died, probably some bad ones too. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: street razors could be used for a lot of things. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: And if we were to attempt to describe all the

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Speaker 1: medical advancements made from just nineteen seventeen to twenty seventeen,

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Speaker 1: we would have to start an entirely different show, and

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Speaker 1: Paul Matt and I would have to go somewhere and

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Speaker 1: brainstorm title that was better than all the medical advancements

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Speaker 1: made from nineteen seventeen to twenty seventeen podcast. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I'm kind of digging that you know, I think it's

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Speaker 1: a cool idea, but that name is way too long.

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Speaker 1: I think that's what makes it special. There you go, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it is a nomenclature aside, it is an important perspective

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Speaker 1: to consider when we think about this. We can look

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Speaker 1: at it another way too. We can look at it

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Speaker 1: in a different direction and ask ourselves, what will people

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Speaker 1: living in twenty one seventeen think of the medical technology

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Speaker 1: and techniques used today in our time here in good

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Speaker 1: old twenty seventeen. WHOA what essentially will be the future

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Speaker 1: of medicine. Well, I mean I have some ideas, but

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Speaker 1: you know, you know me, it gets a little dark,

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Speaker 1: but that's okay. I'm always thinking about integrating man and

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Speaker 1: machine and how that's going to become the new normal.

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Speaker 1: But just to get this out of the way up front, Sure,

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Speaker 1: we know that this can be a touch of e

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Speaker 1: subject anytime you're talking about health, because you're also inherently

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Speaker 1: talking about mortality. Absolutely, and you know that is the

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Speaker 1: one thing we all have in common. But we want

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Speaker 1: to be clear. We're not doctors. Ben and I have

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Speaker 1: no physician background anything like that. We don't have degrees

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Speaker 1: in any of that, so we're not dispensing any kind

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Speaker 1: of medical medical advice to you. We're not trying to

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Speaker 1: tell you how to think about this stuff. We're just

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Speaker 1: gonna tell it how it is pretty much. Well, for

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Speaker 1: the record, I do know first aid, so oh hey,

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Speaker 1: me too, CPR and everything. Yeah, so if you meet,

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Speaker 1: if you meet us, and I assume Paul does as well, No, okay,

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Speaker 1: all right, okay, go to Paul if you're choking. No,

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Speaker 1: it's cool because we hang out outside of work. And

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Speaker 1: so if you if you happen to see us in person,

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Speaker 1: we can you know, reset your disjointed or dislocated arm

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Speaker 1: or make us splend for you or something. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: we are not giving anyone medical advice. And if you

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Speaker 1: have a compound fracture, don't call me. Okay to go

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Speaker 1: to bed with pound fractures? Yeah, all right, so we've

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Speaker 1: established that. Here are the facts. Here's the weirdest thing.

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Speaker 1: Over the span of human civilization, we have been making

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Speaker 1: scientific advancements that later become medical advancements or medical breakthroughs. Right. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: every time we make a mistake in some field, in

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Speaker 1: some way, we learn from it. We don't do it again. Well,

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Speaker 1: in theory and the weird thing is that these discoveries

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Speaker 1: do not exist in a vacuum. There's a bit of

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Speaker 1: a positive feedback loop that took a long time to

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Speaker 1: get running. There's a bit of a snowball effect that

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Speaker 1: started rolling very slowly at first. But now it is

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Speaker 1: no secret that the pace of medical advancement itself just

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Speaker 1: what some of our bosses like to call the cadence

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Speaker 1: of this advancement. It's accelerating, it's increasing. In an article

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Speaker 1: for Forbes, Scott Godly notes, We've got a quote here.

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Speaker 1: The pace at which fundamental discovery of basic science are

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Speaker 1: being uncovered is accelerating, as is the speed at which

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Speaker 1: medical practice is being transformed by these inventions. Metamorphic changes,

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Speaker 1: Gottlieb says, are sweeping a wider breadth of clinical areas

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Speaker 1: more regularly than at any time in the history of science. Wow,

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Speaker 1: that's inspiring. It is in a very real, literal way.

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Speaker 1: Time is accelerating in the medical field. Wow. I mean

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Speaker 1: saying that does have sort of a buzzfeedee headline to it,

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Speaker 1: but it is true. In the past. You know, the

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Speaker 1: first question is, well, well, what gives what made us

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Speaker 1: such a plotting peters or stumbling Stevens earlier. I'm just

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Speaker 1: making up names. No worries the plotting stumbling, Peter Stevens.

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Speaker 1: It had a lot to do with communication and how

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Speaker 1: much it cost, both in real time and in materials

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Speaker 1: to send messages to someone, especially if you're sending it

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Speaker 1: further away than inside your town for something. Right. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we've we've mentioned this in past episodes. Long time listeners

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Speaker 1: are probably familiar with this concept, and Matt's Matt spot on, Well,

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Speaker 1: we say costs of communication, we don't necessarily mean how

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Speaker 1: much did it how much whatever the currency at the

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Speaker 1: time was, did it take for you to send a message.

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Speaker 1: Or it's not just that, it's not about your exffinity

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Speaker 1: account costs, right right, it's it is, as Matt said,

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Speaker 1: time and materials, and time is the primary factor here.

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Speaker 1: So not only could people not learn about a treatment

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Speaker 1: on the internet, which is its whole, other, whole other

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Speaker 1: sack of cats, but oh gosh, for much of human civilization,

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Speaker 1: books themselves were also incredibly rare, and literacy rates were

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Speaker 1: tremendously low. Yeah, so even if you could communicate like

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Speaker 1: easily in actively, maybe the person you're writing to can't

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Speaker 1: understand you, or maybe you can't understand. And most people

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Speaker 1: lived and died within a relatively small number of miles

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Speaker 1: from where they were born. So let's imagine that you're

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Speaker 1: a patient back in these days and you were trying

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Speaker 1: to get information about you know, what's wrong with me.

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Speaker 1: My leg really hurts and there's some kind of hole

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Speaker 1: in there. But I can't figure out what's going on.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what it is. How do I find out? Well,

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Speaker 1: that whole thing where you can't communicate very well doesn't

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Speaker 1: only apply to you, the patient. It applies to the

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Speaker 1: physician that you would want to go and see. So

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Speaker 1: here's the other thing. These physicians, you know, they're across

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Speaker 1: the world, and there are medical advancements happening in different pockets,

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Speaker 1: in different parts of civilization. And when you can't communicate

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Speaker 1: between let's say Britain and Italy, they're not going to

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Speaker 1: know the advancements that are occurring on the other side.

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Speaker 1: They can't compare notes exactly, so it's having to develop

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Speaker 1: almost in isolation, until you have, you know, someone who

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Speaker 1: takes the ship, let's say, across from Italy to Britain

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Speaker 1: and spend some time in London or something right or

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Speaker 1: some sort of emissaria is exploring for a different for

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Speaker 1: a different reason. Then they also happen to know something

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Speaker 1: very obvious to them that is unknown to the people

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Speaker 1: at the time. For instance, the idea that consuming citrus

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Speaker 1: fruits were impossible on a long maritime voyage will combat scurvy. Right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and there, I'm sure there were a lot of people

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Speaker 1: at the time who didn't know that, many because they

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Speaker 1: would never write about exactly. But you know that's that's

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Speaker 1: neither here nor there. The important part is just as

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Speaker 1: you said, Matt, which is that these things are developing

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Speaker 1: in isolation, and the pace of communication did exist, but

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Speaker 1: it was galacial, yes, compared to what we have today.

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Speaker 1: Physicians might also, it must be said, be bound by

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Speaker 1: spiritual or religious explanations for an ailment. You did not

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Speaker 1: get the plague because of a bite from a flea

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Speaker 1: that was carried by a rat. You got the plague

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Speaker 1: because you ate meat on Friday and are therefore ungodly

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Speaker 1: because you could have bought an indulgence or dispensation, but

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Speaker 1: you didn't, So for the sin of not participating in extortion,

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Speaker 1: you have the plague. But sho put a disclaimer here.

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Speaker 1: We're not telling you what to believe, but you know,

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Speaker 1: think with your head. All right, boy, well this is

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Speaker 1: that's not a ding on. That's not a ding on

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Speaker 1: the concept of spiritual religious explanations for an ailment, which

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Speaker 1: you know in some cases exist today. It's historical right.

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Speaker 1: People are as a species, we are explainers, we are classifiers.

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Speaker 1: We seek to understand the explicable and the incomprehensible, and

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Speaker 1: so we have to find a cause, we have to

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Speaker 1: have an If then the other thing that would happen

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Speaker 1: is physicians might, aside from any ideological beliefs, and ideological

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Speaker 1: is probably a better word than spiritual religious at this time,

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Speaker 1: aside from that, and in a more secular way, they

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Speaker 1: may cling to traditional beliefs despite indications that other treatments

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Speaker 1: might be more effective, not to mention less dangerous. Like

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Speaker 1: For a long time, there was a concept that, just

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Speaker 1: by overwhelming evidence to the contrary, the consumption of mercury

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Speaker 1: could possibly could possibly allow people to live for a

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Speaker 1: longer span of time, as we know, and as was

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Speaker 1: fairly apparent right to many observers even in the time

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Speaker 1: when this belief was prevalent, especially after trying it for

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Speaker 1: a little while, especially after trying it, as we know

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Speaker 1: now that consumption mercury has the opposite effect, Yes, in

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Speaker 1: a to an extreme degree. Oh side note, Matt, I

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Speaker 1: feel like you already know this one, so stop me.

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Speaker 1: If you've heard it, do you remember? Do you know

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Speaker 1: why the mad hatter is now Alice in Wonderland? Do

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Speaker 1: you know the story of mad hatters? No? No, no, no,

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Speaker 1: just the phrase mad hatter? I do not. So when

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Speaker 1: these uh haberdashers would create or form hats again, historically

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Speaker 1: they would use chemicals like mercury to assist in the

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Speaker 1: you know, solidifying the shape, right, And what happened is

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Speaker 1: that over time, exposure to these chemicals started affecting the

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Speaker 1: mental faculties of these hat makers, these haberdashers, and then

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Speaker 1: the phrase mad as a hatter originated from that. It's

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Speaker 1: not a it's not just a funny joke, oh March

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Speaker 1: hare by the way, of course, being like spring reproductive madness.

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Speaker 1: But the the interesting thing to me is that there

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Speaker 1: was some point in time where somebody, probably in Europe,

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Speaker 1: looked at someone else and they're like, hey man, I'm

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Speaker 1: worried about Steve, like he's been acting real weird. And

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Speaker 1: they're like, yeah, but his hat game is so on point. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that's how you end up with stuff like mustard.

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Speaker 1: Don't let's be silly. That's perfect. That is a direct quote. Yeah, Mustard,

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Speaker 1: that's not a serious condiment. Can you imagine we don't

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Speaker 1: really believe that. Don't send us hate mail about mustard.

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Speaker 1: So you see the problem here, folks, You see the dilemma.

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Speaker 1: There are multiple completely understandable reasons why the pace of

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Speaker 1: medical treatment and medical breakthroughs is slow at this point

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Speaker 1: in time. And we can journey through history and explore

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Speaker 1: this relationship between just the what we would call the

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Speaker 1: pure scientific discovery and the medical applications. Paul, can we

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Speaker 1: get like some sort of time travel noise? Okay, here

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Speaker 1: we go where we're in the sixteenth century. Okay, all right,

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Speaker 1: we're in the sixteenth century. That's like how everything looks

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Speaker 1: so assassined, creedy. Right now, I can hear the horses,

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Speaker 1: and you can smell the smells right, potent, yes, potent. Indeed,

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Speaker 1: my friend, we are actually at the exact, well, the

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Speaker 1: approximate moment in time where the concept of germ theory

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Speaker 1: was first proposed. Germ theory this is this is the

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Speaker 1: idea that somehow disease whenever your body you get sick,

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Speaker 1: it somehow linked to these tiny little things that we

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Speaker 1: now know are microorganisms, right invisible to the naked eye.

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Speaker 1: So over the next few centuries, now we're now we're

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Speaker 1: traveling through centuries really quickly. Over the next few centuries

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Speaker 1: there would be additional discoveries that lent further credence to

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Speaker 1: this concept. However, it wasn't until the nineteenth century that doctors,

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Speaker 1: or the Western ones at least, even began washing their

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Speaker 1: hands at all. What check it out, Matt. In eighteen

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Speaker 1: forty seven, a Hungarian physician named Ignaz Philip Samuel Weeiss

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Speaker 1: proposed that maternal death death during childbirth could be sharply

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Speaker 1: cut when obstetricians washed their hands before conducting you know,

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Speaker 1: before the that's right, have yeah, you can't unsee that. Specifically,

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Speaker 1: they recommend a chlorinated that miracle. You can't unsee that miracle.

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Speaker 1: Oh man, right, yeah, okay, I just had a flashback,

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Speaker 1: but we're good. But yes, it seems so simple, right, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it does seem pretty simple. Here's what happened to Ignaz. Well,

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Speaker 1: nobody took this guy seriously. He was ridiculed for having

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Speaker 1: this belief and for in his mind figuring out, oh,

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Speaker 1: this might be the problem. His colleagues just just ribbed

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Speaker 1: him the whole time. He died in an asylum in

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Speaker 1: eighteen sixty five, where he was put involuntarily. Yeah, because

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Speaker 1: he was crazy telling people to wash their hands. How

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Speaker 1: dare you tell me to wash my hands like some

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Speaker 1: kind of peasant doing laundry. Get out of here, simbilweis.

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Speaker 1: Go back to your room. But that was only two

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Speaker 1: weeks after guards. Let's just say they beat him up.

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Speaker 1: They beat him up to an inch of his life. Look,

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Speaker 1: I think we should use an accurate description. And it's

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Speaker 1: fine to beat me if you want. They beat the

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Speaker 1: everliving out of him in eighteen sixty five. He died

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Speaker 1: two weeks after this vicious beating. Only later, much later,

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Speaker 1: did history acknowledge his prescience. Yeah, his understanding, And man,

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Speaker 1: this guy could have saved a hole. He did to

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Speaker 1: save a whole bunch of people in a way, but

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Speaker 1: ultimately he was just persecuted for it. And Louis Pasteur

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Speaker 1: around somewhere at the same time, confirmed the germ theory

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Speaker 1: in the eighteen sixties, and then a few years after that,

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Speaker 1: Joseph Lister began introducing sterile techniques into surgery. And ah,

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Speaker 1: you don't have to just wash your hands, you wash

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Speaker 1: your implements too. You mean, like a peasant doing laundry.

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Speaker 1: I'm just imagining, why would you get so angry about

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Speaker 1: this idea, because you know, we have the privilege of

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Speaker 1: retrospe now, and it is an immense and powerful privilege

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Speaker 1: because you know, the average person living in the US

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Speaker 1: washes their hands multiple times a day, right, thanks to

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Speaker 1: pasteur And I wonder if it's just the At the time,

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Speaker 1: it was the implication that this physician is dirty in

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Speaker 1: some way, or this physician, you know, this physician's tools

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Speaker 1: are unclean. Right. So it wasn't until much much later

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Speaker 1: that these original findings began to significantly impact medical practice

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Speaker 1: and the experimental methods, the lab tools, the scientific insights

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Speaker 1: were finally at hand not only to explain how germs

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Speaker 1: caused disease, but to explain how this how this process

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Speaker 1: could be mitigated or somewhat controlled to help patients and

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Speaker 1: all in all, this took about three hundred years from

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Speaker 1: the sixteenth century to the nineteenth century. And this is

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Speaker 1: just one discovery and each single one leads to other discoveries.

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Speaker 1: And so as long as there aren't you any kind

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Speaker 1: of giant asteroids that impact your Earth or some other catastrophe,

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Speaker 1: and we'll just cross our fingers that nothing's going to

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Speaker 1: happen in the next few hours. Here, it makes sense

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Speaker 1: for our species to discover and apply all these new

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Speaker 1: technologies at an increasingly rapid pace. Especially you've taken into

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Speaker 1: that communication thing. Now, Now that I can get on

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Speaker 1: this laptop here and shoot an emol email off to

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Speaker 1: anybody anywhere in the entire planet that has access to

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Speaker 1: the Internet, I mean, we can do this right, So, yes, Okay,

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Speaker 1: It's true it took three hundred years for the world

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Speaker 1: to agree that doctors should wash their hands, but by

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Speaker 1: way of contrast, it only took thirty years for modern

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Speaker 1: scientific work on immune cells to translate into the development

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Speaker 1: of some of the world's most powerful, most efficacious drugs. However,

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Speaker 1: this is not all warm fuzzies, hugs from Grandma, fresh cookies,

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Speaker 1: unicorns and rainbows. Yeah, it's not even Rickshaw's stiff drinks

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Speaker 1: and lava lamps, no, sir. You See, along with the

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Speaker 1: increase in effectiveness, we are also as a species seeing

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Speaker 1: unequal access to medicine, rising cost especially in the field

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Speaker 1: of proprietary biotech or drugs, and we're seeing increasingly disturbing

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Speaker 1: possibilities for the future of patient privacy. And we're not

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Speaker 1: even getting into healthcare costs in the United States, which

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Speaker 1: is a whole other thing. Will inevitably be called to

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Speaker 1: make an update for that one pretty soon too, with

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Speaker 1: what's going on. But these concerns that Ben's talking about

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Speaker 1: about privacy, they are particularly strange. Yes, longtime listeners, fellow

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Speaker 1: conspiracy realist, you've heard us explore the erosion of privacy

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Speaker 1: of multiple fields, from the world's governments to its grocery

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Speaker 1: stores and even unto the phone you may be using

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Speaker 1: to listen to this podcast right now. But it goes

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Speaker 1: deeper than that. The future of medicine, you see, is

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Speaker 1: upon us digital medicine. Welcome to the rabbit hole. Don't worry,

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Speaker 1: will monitor your vitals while this handy message from our

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Speaker 1: sponsor invades your headholes. Here's where it gets crazy. In

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Speaker 1: a recent article for The New York Times dated November thirteenth,

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Speaker 1: actually of this year, right before we recorded this podcast,

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Speaker 1: a journalist named Pam Bellock Bellock Let's Say explores the

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Speaker 1: US Food and Drug Administration the FDA's decision to approve

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Speaker 1: a quote digital pill, Oh boy, a medicine containing a

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Speaker 1: sensor that can tell doctors when and if a patient

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Speaker 1: is taking their medicine. You may be asking what sort

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Speaker 1: of pill are we talking? This choice was very interesting

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Speaker 1: to us because the pilling question is a variant of

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Speaker 1: a name brand antipsychotic Abilify Yes, and this product is

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Speaker 1: approved for the treatment of schizophrenia, acute treatment of manneic

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Speaker 1: and mixed episodes associated with bipolar one disorder, and for

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Speaker 1: use as an add on treatment for depression in adults.

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Speaker 1: The FDA granted the approval of Abilify my site to

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Speaker 1: Otsuka Pharmaceutical Company Limited, and the sensor technology and the

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Speaker 1: patch are made by this company called Proteus Digital Health.

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Speaker 1: What's that you say, a smart pill? Well, how does

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Speaker 1: it work? Well, let me tell you. The patient takes

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Speaker 1: a pill, you see, that makes sense. Then the pill

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Speaker 1: sensor tracks that it's been ingested, Okay. Then that pill

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Speaker 1: sends a signal to a patch worn by the patient.

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Speaker 1: Then the patch sends a signal to a mobile application

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Speaker 1: that allows patients to track their medication use. And here's

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Speaker 1: where it gets really interesting for people who who are

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Speaker 1: thinking already, oh my god, my alarms going off. I

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Speaker 1: don't like this concept at all. I'm not even ever

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Speaker 1: going to use this, but I hate this idea. Well,

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Speaker 1: the patient has to give permission to the caregiver or

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Speaker 1: to the physicians to access the information, and they do

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Speaker 1: that through a web based portal. But in theory, your

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00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 1: privacy is not immediately being hacked just by taking the

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Speaker 1: pill itself. However, if you are a patient going through

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Speaker 1: you know, schizophrenia, manic and mixed episodes, bipolar disorder, serious depression,

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Speaker 1: making those kind of decisions become a little harder and

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00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 1: it's a little more gray. Yeah, agreed. And for proponents

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Speaker 1: this pill, this specific variant of the I is just

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Speaker 1: one more contribution to the growing wave of monitoring techniques

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Speaker 1: and technologies used to address one of medicine's primary woes,

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Speaker 1: which I was not fully aware of. Men I didn't

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Speaker 1: understand this either. Patients, you see, apparently have a real

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Speaker 1: devil of a time taking their medication on a schedule

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Speaker 1: and in the manner prescribed by their doctor or a

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Speaker 1: health provider. What does that mean that means that let's

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Speaker 1: say you have poison iving, got poison ivy really bad,

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Speaker 1: and they they prescribe to you a blister pack that

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00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 1: is essentially a steroid treatment, and you have to take

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Speaker 1: X number of pills the first day, Why number of

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Speaker 1: pills the next day, and so on and so forth

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Speaker 1: until your poison ivy is gone. You have learned your lesson,

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00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 1: go in peace and do not touch strange plants. Again, yes,

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Speaker 1: well yes, And this is a, like Ben said, a

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Speaker 1: big issue for the healthcare industrial complex. Let's call it

424
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 1: so what they call it patient non adherents to prescribed medication.

425
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 1: That's like the long way about it. And it's associated

426
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 1: with all kinds of things, poor outcomes for you know,

427
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 1: being prescribed prescribe medication that's supposed to do something, well,

428
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 1: it doesn't happen if you don't take the medication correctly.

429
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 1: It's associated with progression of diseases because again it's not

430
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 1: being treated properly. And it's got a huge estimated burden

431
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 1: of billions of dollars on the healthcare industry, Like it

432
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 1: costs billions of dollars because people don't take their medications correctly.

433
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 1: That was mind blowing to me, didn't you have the

434
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 1: didn't you dig up the stat there the estimate that

435
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 1: between one hundred and three hundred billion dollars have been

436
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 1: attributed to this. Yeah, yeah, that's that's just in the

437
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 1: US specifically, and you're talking about a privatized healthcare system.

438
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:02,479
Speaker 1: But still that represents three to ten percent of the

439
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 1: total United States healthcare costs. So what are the top

440
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 1: reasons that people don't take the medicine they're prescribed. Well,

441
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 1: according to this one academic paper that was referencing several

442
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 1: different I Guess polls, number one is forgetfulness. Number two

443
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 1: is side effects or perceived side effects. Number three is

444
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 1: high drug costs, Like it costs way too much for

445
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 1: me to take all these pills. I'm gonna, you know,

446
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 1: I'm going to separate it out a little more than

447
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 1: what's prescribed, and that statistic is probably going to increase

448
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 1: in the US. Oh absolutely. And then number four was

449
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 1: just that the drug does little to nothing to actually

450
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 1: affect what I'm going through? Is that a self report

451
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 1: on the patient's part. These are all self reports. Yeah,

452
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 1: this is what patients say about why they're not taking

453
00:30:56,600 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 1: their medications. So maybe just to be completely clear with everyone.

454
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe we should say the patient believes the drug

455
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 1: does little Oh yeah, absolutely, yeah, that is all. Yeah,

456
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 1: patient belief all that stuff. The patient believes the drug

457
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 1: cost is too high according to their budget. The patient

458
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 1: believes the side effects are happening to them, you know,

459
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 1: according to them. You know, it seems strange, doesn't it,

460
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 1: Because while we know that there are multiple cases of

461
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 1: terrible situations happening when people are overprescribed. You know, when

462
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 1: someone takes a drug for a condition a but it

463
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 1: produces a side effect and they have to take a

464
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 1: drug for that side effect, and then have to take

465
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 1: another drug for that side effect. With this giant cocktail

466
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 1: of drugs are taking inside effects. And although we know

467
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 1: that happens, in my case, I feel like if I

468
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 1: already went I don't want to sound too Larry David

469
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 1: about us, but like if I already had to take

470
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 1: some time off from work and I had to go

471
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 1: to a doctor's office and I might have had to

472
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 1: pay to park, it was this whole thing, you know,

473
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 1: and uh, and then they prescribe some sort of medication

474
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 1: for cold or whatever. I'm going to trust them and

475
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 1: I'm gonna probably take it unless it's something really weird.

476
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 1: You know. All right, we're gonna we're gonna do the

477
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 1: first ever episode of Honesty Corner with Maddie Fred And

478
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 1: here it goes. I have a bad back. I've had

479
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 1: it for a long time. I just have back pains.

480
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 1: It works fine, it does everything I need it to do.

481
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 1: I can still lift heavy stuff. But man, does it hurt.

482
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 1: It's the only bad thing about you. By the way,

483
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 1: I'll stop it. Well, well, I've been to several physicians

484
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 1: and talked about this, finding ways to help me. And

485
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 1: I was once prescribed this drug called Soma, which is

486
00:32:55,360 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 1: a muscle relaxer, and I was told to take it

487
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 1: and then come back and see them and see if

488
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 1: anything happened. But I chose not to after researching the

489
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 1: drug and its side effects and what it does to you.

490
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 1: But you know that in this case, it was a

491
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 1: physician trying to give me a medication that would make

492
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 1: me feel better for my ailment. But I, as the patient,

493
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 1: chose not to. And I wonder, I wonder, Oh gosh,

494
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 1: I just contributed to the several billion dollars Oh yeah,

495
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 1: healthcare costs. That's on you now. So it's true, though

496
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 1: there are. There are these honest concerns, and they come

497
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 1: from a very valid place, right. And it's not only

498
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 1: is it very difficult and ill informed to call one

499
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 1: group of people in this argument the bad guys quote

500
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 1: unquote and another group the good guys. It's also unethical

501
00:33:55,080 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 1: because there are situations where okay, just a little bit

502
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 1: of a weird comparison, if you're cool with it. Matt. So,

503
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:11,879
Speaker 1: I've always thought that your body, you listening to this

504
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:16,880
Speaker 1: specifically you, your body is a lot like a car.

505
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:20,720
Speaker 1: And you know, if you own a car for a while,

506
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:25,319
Speaker 1: you are probably and you drive it every day. You

507
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 1: might not be a mechanic, but you know your particular

508
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 1: car very very well, definitely, and you know when you

509
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 1: know second gear slips a little, You know that you

510
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 1: might have to give it a little extra gas on

511
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 1: a cold day, and when to check the tires, and

512
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,840
Speaker 1: that one door doesn't quite line up, but you remember

513
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,440
Speaker 1: what you know that you hit something in that parking

514
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 1: lot or whatever. You know your car. And the thing is,

515
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:54,360
Speaker 1: in many ways, even if you are not a mechanic,

516
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 1: even if you are not a doctor, your body is

517
00:34:57,600 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 1: going to be the body you know the best. The

518
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,839
Speaker 1: are you know the best because you only get out

519
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 1: of it once when you die. Yeah. Well, okay, okay, okay,

520
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:13,160
Speaker 1: you're right, and I'm glad you said that. All right,

521
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 1: So some people will tell you you can sneak out

522
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:21,879
Speaker 1: of your car occasionally, Yeah, right, like circumstances. Yes, yeah, well,

523
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 1: I think it's I think the concept of remote viewing

524
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:30,880
Speaker 1: or accidental astral travel as an experience, a subjective experience.

525
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 1: I think it's way more common, and it's often reported.

526
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:36,839
Speaker 1: And in fact, if I recall, we did a couple

527
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 1: episodes on this, or we did aspects of it. Anyway,

528
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 1: you know, you're the car that you only get out

529
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 1: of permanently once. Yes, and with the advancement of technology,

530
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 1: perhaps we'll be able to just jump cars whenever we

531
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 1: feel like it, or get a flying car. Oh yeah,

532
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:02,800
Speaker 1: you want to ride this? Compare the sunset. So before

533
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 1: we take the body as car analogy on on our

534
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:12,399
Speaker 1: long road trip, we should talk about the opponents here.

535
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 1: I mean, we just did that extended comparison to say,

536
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:22,319
Speaker 1: in defense of people who have decided that they are

537
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 1: not going to take a particular medication, because you know,

538
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:30,719
Speaker 1: they have any number of valid reasons, one might be

539
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:36,799
Speaker 1: that they have an incurable condition that they would rather

540
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:41,480
Speaker 1: live with than suffer from the side effects of the

541
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:44,799
Speaker 1: medication they're supposed to be taking. Right, And it goes

542
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 1: back to their perception of their own quality of life.

543
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:51,879
Speaker 1: But again they are not They are not medical professionals

544
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 1: often right. But now that we've established that, we should

545
00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 1: look at the opponents of this um of this emerging technology,

546
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 1: specifically of digital medicine in general. Right. You know, one

547
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 1: of the one of the biggest issues I've seen is

548
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:15,279
Speaker 1: that the amount of money that this would save and

549
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:19,839
Speaker 1: the benefit I guess benefit to cost ratio and all

550
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:23,400
Speaker 1: the varying ways this will cost us as humans and

551
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:27,319
Speaker 1: you know, as a private company selling a technology as well,

552
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 1: it doesn't balance out. Like they don't think this is

553
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 1: the solution to get people patients to take their medicine.

554
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 1: Just by having the ability to track the medication doesn't

555
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:41,560
Speaker 1: mean that the person is going to take it. It'll

556
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:45,320
Speaker 1: mean it'll help the physician know if they get access

557
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 1: to the information that the patient's not taking their medicine. Oh,

558
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:51,799
Speaker 1: I see, because for right now it's opt in on

559
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:54,240
Speaker 1: the part of the patient. It's opt in, and it's

560
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 1: you know, and then it will turn into opt out,

561
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:03,439
Speaker 1: and then years from now, maybe even before your son

562
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:06,960
Speaker 1: is in his twenties, it's going to Yeah, it's going

563
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:09,520
Speaker 1: to be strange if it doesn't have some if a

564
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 1: medicine doesn't have some sort of tracer, Yeah, it's possible.

565
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:18,360
Speaker 1: It's it's quite possible. At this point, opponents do argue

566
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 1: that this is another case of the erosion of privacy,

567
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 1: and one of the big sticking points is going to

568
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:31,280
Speaker 1: be familiar to a lot of people in any medicine

569
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:34,880
Speaker 1: related field. One of the big sticking points is the

570
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:41,120
Speaker 1: sale of your the most personal of your personal information

571
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 1: to third parties. These could be advertisers, These could be

572
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:51,040
Speaker 1: insurance companies, These could be employers, These could be banks. Yeah,

573
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:53,920
Speaker 1: that's another good call. This could be these could be

574
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:58,919
Speaker 1: any number of people, and unless laws change, you will

575
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 1: never know until maybe your maybe your bank turns down alone,

576
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:10,759
Speaker 1: or maybe you suddenly get a higher interest rate, or

577
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 1: a number of things that would be seemingly inexplicable or

578
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:17,920
Speaker 1: out of the blue begin to occur to you, and

579
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 1: then you have to sort of be like what's his name,

580
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 1: Guy Pearson Memento and work backwards and just put the

581
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:29,960
Speaker 1: pieces together to figure out what happened, who sold this

582
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:35,759
Speaker 1: and why. And again, unless the laws change, you will

583
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:39,239
Speaker 1: also not be given a cut of what they sell.

584
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:43,239
Speaker 1: And we do want to be clear right now, right now,

585
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 1: the party line is that this information is going to

586
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:52,880
Speaker 1: be somehow anonymous, right, and it's just it's just to

587
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 1: aggregate data set to build better predictions see general trends.

588
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:01,239
Speaker 1: I think it goes a little further than that, Ben,

589
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 1: I think it's a system that we set up to

590
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:07,840
Speaker 1: where only your phone is going to get the information

591
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:10,440
Speaker 1: unless you send it out to anybody else. So I

592
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 1: guess it would be kind of like I'm trying to

593
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:16,799
Speaker 1: find an analogy for this, but taking a picture. Every

594
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:18,720
Speaker 1: time you take one of these pills, it's like taking

595
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 1: a picture, and unless you decide to send it to

596
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:24,400
Speaker 1: you know, your doctor or your friends, nobody is going

597
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 1: to know about it unless they hack your phone, I guess,

598
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:30,239
Speaker 1: is the way I'm imagining it, or the server of

599
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:35,439
Speaker 1: the company Proteus that's making the software, right, That's that's

600
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:39,880
Speaker 1: the question, you know, And that's that's the concern. Whether

601
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:43,160
Speaker 1: it's a government or whether it's a private entity, the

602
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:48,800
Speaker 1: question remains the same. Who watches the watchers, right, who

603
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 1: holds the powerful accountable? And this may seem like a

604
00:40:54,440 --> 00:41:00,239
Speaker 1: little bit of alarmism. Perhaps this may seem like a

605
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 1: little bit of a doom and gloom for something that

606
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 1: is inarguably a good thing, right, especially according to the proponents,

607
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 1: because the you know, it goes back to the idea

608
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:16,560
Speaker 1: that this could save lives. And we know that continual

609
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 1: monitoring has already existed, right for anybody with a fitbit

610
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:25,760
Speaker 1: or some sort of app on your phone that tells

611
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 1: you to quit smoking, or to count your calories or

612
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 1: to make sure that you take a minimum of ten

613
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:36,240
Speaker 1: thousand steps a day, we know that this stuff already exists.

614
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:40,239
Speaker 1: This is a step to put it inside you, and

615
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:44,719
Speaker 1: right now it's a simple check in system. Right. It's so,

616
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:47,640
Speaker 1: for instance, right now, there is nothing to stop someone

617
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:49,920
Speaker 1: if they for some reason said, you know what, I'm

618
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 1: going to take six of these pills because woo whatever,

619
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 1: I'm going to share with my doctor and they need

620
00:41:55,520 --> 00:42:00,720
Speaker 1: to know that, you know, I'm taking them this way,

621
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 1: there's nothing physically stopping it, you know what I mean, Like,

622
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:08,560
Speaker 1: there's not a mechanism to prevent the release maybe of

623
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:12,799
Speaker 1: the sure Yeah, like what if what if this sort

624
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:18,880
Speaker 1: of technology became mandatory and not opt in and was

625
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 1: applied to legally prescribed opiates, right, which you're interesting, very

626
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:29,319
Speaker 1: dangerous and addictive substances. So then you would be in

627
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 1: a situation, especially if you had a past history of abuse,

628
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:37,480
Speaker 1: where you would be monitored to make sure that not

629
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 1: only did you take it at whatever pill you're prescribed,

630
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 1: that three PM or something, but that you only take

631
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:47,760
Speaker 1: it then, yeah, and that you don't take two or

632
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:52,000
Speaker 1: three or whatever. And then also to make sure that

633
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:57,600
Speaker 1: that ping happens every number of times one per pill, right,

634
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:00,480
Speaker 1: so that they know you're not selling it on the

635
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:03,439
Speaker 1: black market. Yeah. You see, what starts as a very

636
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:08,640
Speaker 1: little helpful thing does indeed have wide reaching implications. Oh yeah,

637
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:11,080
Speaker 1: I've got two examples right here. So if each one

638
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:14,239
Speaker 1: has a specific let's say MAC address and it's not

639
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 1: MAC address, but each one has a specific serial number

640
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 1: or something each pill, sure, then you will know if

641
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:22,840
Speaker 1: someone sells their pills and to whom sells those pills.

642
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:27,160
Speaker 1: If you are tracking the ingestion of these, that could

643
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:31,080
Speaker 1: get really interesting in the future. And another thing was overdoses.

644
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:33,840
Speaker 1: You if you could find a way to control the

645
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:39,400
Speaker 1: release mechanism. You could prevent overdosing of practically anything that

646
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:44,720
Speaker 1: isn't injectable. Yeah, and like that's the silver lining. I'm

647
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:49,880
Speaker 1: saying totally because for proponents of this trend, make no mistake,

648
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:51,759
Speaker 1: it is a trend. This is not the last you're

649
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:56,440
Speaker 1: going to hear about this technology. In For proponents of this,

650
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:02,080
Speaker 1: that just seems like another good thing, another tick in

651
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 1: the box of pros because you're saying, oh, we could

652
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 1: stop drug dealers. Yeah, we could maybe combat at some

653
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:13,919
Speaker 1: level what are they called pill mills. Yeah, it's tough

654
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 1: for me to say that because different accents I have

655
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:21,799
Speaker 1: come out. Yeah, So of course I just have to

656
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:24,200
Speaker 1: say at that point, if you want to, I'm telling

657
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:27,520
Speaker 1: people how to mark itself for it, but you would

658
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:29,480
Speaker 1: just depending on what the pills made out of. I'm

659
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:32,400
Speaker 1: assuming it can't be indestructible because you have to process

660
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 1: it through your body. Sure, but you just get the

661
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 1: pills and then break them up and then you know,

662
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:41,759
Speaker 1: leave out the sensors. Oh, I see change the method

663
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:45,400
Speaker 1: of delivery. Just saying there, but I think that's a

664
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 1: problem that humanity a lot of times forgets when we're

665
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:51,880
Speaker 1: trying to solve these huge problems when you're trying to

666
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 1: deal especially with substance abuse of any kind. Mankind is

667
00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:03,279
Speaker 1: very inventive. Sure, and we'll find a way. I mean,

668
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:07,239
Speaker 1: that's just all right, but you you owe it to everybody, Paul,

669
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:09,319
Speaker 1: and I include it to do a gold bloom version

670
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:11,920
Speaker 1: in that one, a gold bloom version of that one

671
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:14,160
Speaker 1: of that line. I don't know if I have a

672
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 1: gold bloom. I don't think I can do it. Yeah,

673
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:21,960
Speaker 1: you can gold blooms like life that finds a way

674
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:25,759
Speaker 1: or something. I think it's worth about the cadence that

675
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:28,400
Speaker 1: could you do that one? That was it? That was it?

676
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 1: Swinging a miss all right? Left pretty hard on that.

677
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 1: I enjoyed it a lot. That's very kind. You're a

678
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:36,759
Speaker 1: very kind person. So there's another thing we could say

679
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:40,440
Speaker 1: here too, Matt. It's the question would be, so we're

680
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:43,400
Speaker 1: talking about changing the means of delivery or we're talking

681
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:50,040
Speaker 1: about somehow removing the sensor. Right, Another option, at least

682
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:52,960
Speaker 1: in this case this very into the Bilify, would be

683
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:56,239
Speaker 1: to remove the patch. Yes, because the patch is the

684
00:45:56,280 --> 00:46:00,279
Speaker 1: means of transmission for the app on the phone and

685
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:06,240
Speaker 1: later the web portal. That might work. However, this variant

686
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:10,640
Speaker 1: of abilify is only one instance of a larger sea

687
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:15,400
Speaker 1: change or medical advancement. Right that is probably past the

688
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:18,239
Speaker 1: point of no return at this time. So what else

689
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 1: is out there? We'll tell you after a word from

690
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:31,280
Speaker 1: our sponsor. Okay, so let's say, hypothetically, Matt, you said

691
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:35,840
Speaker 1: you don't know me, you can't run my business. I'll

692
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:39,439
Speaker 1: take the drugs I want what I want them. May Man,

693
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:42,760
Speaker 1: you don't know me. I'm gonna take drugs I want

694
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:47,359
Speaker 1: on my time and my schedule. All right, Yeah, that's good.

695
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 1: I didn't want I was going soft on a Southern

696
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:52,359
Speaker 1: accent there because I didn't want to offend you. But

697
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:55,720
Speaker 1: I think he nailed it, you know. Just it lives

698
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:59,279
Speaker 1: inside me and sometimes it escapes. That's how I feel

699
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:04,360
Speaker 1: about some things. Yeah, moving on, there's no need to

700
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:07,560
Speaker 1: get get into those sorts of episodes yet. We'll wait

701
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:11,960
Speaker 1: until next Halloween. Maybe. So you're telling me you left

702
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 1: me on a cliffhanger here. It's true. You said before

703
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 1: we went to the break that there are other people

704
00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:23,920
Speaker 1: making digital drugs. Oh yes, yes, of course. A Florida

705
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:29,600
Speaker 1: company named detect Rx is making another sort of sensor

706
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:34,040
Speaker 1: ingestable sensor. Their's is called the id cap and as

707
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:36,839
Speaker 1: we record this, it has already been tested or it's

708
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:40,600
Speaker 1: being tested on a number of different drugs, including opioids

709
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:44,600
Speaker 1: and HIV medication. Here's all it works. It's made of

710
00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 1: magnesium and silver chloride, and it's encapsulated with pills and

711
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:54,719
Speaker 1: you don't need a patch because the entire time it's

712
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:58,040
Speaker 1: inside the body, as it's being ingested, it generates a

713
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:01,080
Speaker 1: low power radio signal that can be picked up by

714
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:04,840
Speaker 1: a little antenna if it's near you. What yep, And

715
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:08,720
Speaker 1: that's that's according to Harry Travis, the president of detect

716
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:13,480
Speaker 1: our X. They are currently seeking FDA clearance for this

717
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:20,240
Speaker 1: application in twenty eighteen. And of course FDA applications are

718
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:24,359
Speaker 1: notoriously difficult unless you know the right people and uh,

719
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:32,520
Speaker 1: you know, have the right political connections. Hold on a second, Yeah,

720
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:35,560
Speaker 1: I just thought of something. With these new digital pills,

721
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:38,840
Speaker 1: does that mean we will all be pooping out tiny

722
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:43,000
Speaker 1: little sensors every time we go to the bathroom. I

723
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:48,359
Speaker 1: mean that's the dream, right, Like especially I'm kidding, I'm kidding, kid,

724
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:52,600
Speaker 1: that's not the dream, But especially if you're taking multiple medications,

725
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:56,320
Speaker 1: each of them having a sensor, your bowel movement is

726
00:48:56,360 --> 00:49:02,919
Speaker 1: going to be twenty percent metal and micro electronics twenty percent. Well,

727
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:05,839
Speaker 1: I mean depending because you're talking about a twenty four

728
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:08,239
Speaker 1: hour period anyway, all right, Well, I'm just saying we're

729
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:10,920
Speaker 1: pooping a lot of metal stuff out. So this might

730
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:14,879
Speaker 1: sound comedic of us, and to a degree it is. Right,

731
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:18,400
Speaker 1: we're talking about poop. Yeah, the future of weird defication's

732
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:21,319
Speaker 1: that's something that concerns a lot of people. And I

733
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:23,840
Speaker 1: think we earned that joke because we talked about fecal

734
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:27,439
Speaker 1: matter transplants once years ago, and we both kept like

735
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:31,440
Speaker 1: a straight street lay serious tone the whole way through. Seriously,

736
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:34,080
Speaker 1: I don't even think we mentioned pooping back and forth

737
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:42,439
Speaker 1: forever we have now. But even even though it does

738
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:46,400
Speaker 1: feel comedic to a degree, it is. What we're seeing

739
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:50,200
Speaker 1: is that every time there's a medical advancement, there are

740
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:53,960
Speaker 1: inherently going to be ripple effects, many of which not all,

741
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:57,480
Speaker 1: but many of which are going to be unpredictable, right,

742
00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:01,240
Speaker 1: and some of which may be very dang interests. Now,

743
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:04,600
Speaker 1: back when it took us as a species three hundred

744
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:09,319
Speaker 1: years to figure out things that seem simple today, we

745
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:12,759
Speaker 1: had a little bit more buffer time. Collectively, we had

746
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:16,040
Speaker 1: a little bit more of a of a margin in

747
00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:19,920
Speaker 1: which to experience these implications and these ripple effects as

748
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:25,320
Speaker 1: they rolled out. But now with this increasing frequency of

749
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:29,279
Speaker 1: medical advancements, which again barring an asteroid at gamma ray

750
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:35,839
Speaker 1: burst a coronal mass ejection, then unless something destroys civilization

751
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:41,080
Speaker 1: as we understand it, this pace is going to continue increasing,

752
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:45,600
Speaker 1: and there are going to be smaller and smaller windows

753
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:52,560
Speaker 1: of time to analyze, address, and if necessary, mitigate these

754
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:58,280
Speaker 1: ripple effects. We are right now on the bleeding edge

755
00:50:59,239 --> 00:51:03,120
Speaker 1: of not only the future of medicine but also the

756
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:08,680
Speaker 1: future of monitoring. Yes, absolutely, and I for one have

757
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:12,799
Speaker 1: played entirely too many video games to be okay with this.

758
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 1: Looking at you, Dass specifically, looking at you, I completely

759
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:22,080
Speaker 1: understand the goals set out by the healthcare industry reduce

760
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:24,719
Speaker 1: cost and get patients to take their medicines so we

761
00:51:24,719 --> 00:51:29,080
Speaker 1: can actually help people. But and I would argue that

762
00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 1: the cost is probably the most important thing for the

763
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 1: healthcare industry, at least in the United States. But I'm

764
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:38,560
Speaker 1: not sure that trackable medicine really is the answer. And

765
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:40,600
Speaker 1: I do agree with you Ben, like this is a

766
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:44,239
Speaker 1: good stepping point in you know, the way we're going

767
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:47,839
Speaker 1: to get to the better future, the better medicine. It's

768
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:50,799
Speaker 1: you can definitely see the linkage there to how it

769
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:54,160
Speaker 1: can help. But right now, I guess you just have

770
00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:57,160
Speaker 1: to take that step in order to get there. I

771
00:51:57,200 --> 00:51:59,759
Speaker 1: think you do. Yeah, you have to, right, Okay, But

772
00:51:59,800 --> 00:52:02,160
Speaker 1: it's bothers me because it feels like it's something ripped

773
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:04,200
Speaker 1: out of the science fiction novel or again in data

774
00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:06,279
Speaker 1: sex that I don't want to be a part of

775
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:10,680
Speaker 1: what happened in that's just where humans and are becoming

776
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:13,800
Speaker 1: androids and replacing different parts of their body and upgrading

777
00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:17,960
Speaker 1: and humanity, the state of humanity is really looked into.

778
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:20,040
Speaker 1: You're not gonna do that. You're not gonna take some

779
00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:24,200
Speaker 1: cyber implants. I you know, I haven't decided yet. Philosophically,

780
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:28,040
Speaker 1: I think it's if I could just take my brain,

781
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:31,160
Speaker 1: my neural like if you could map my brain out

782
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:35,080
Speaker 1: and then send that as a piece of software into

783
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:37,920
Speaker 1: a robot. I'm okay with that, I think really, because

784
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:40,840
Speaker 1: I feel like I could live forever, but having pieces

785
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:44,239
Speaker 1: of metal integrated into my body, I don't know. I

786
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:48,600
Speaker 1: wonder if Paul would like get electric eyes or something.

787
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:54,640
Speaker 1: He's he's saying, maybe he's giving a probably not shrug. Yeah,

788
00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:58,080
Speaker 1: he's pointing to his chest and saying pacemaker. Oh okay,

789
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:01,279
Speaker 1: see you're saying that pacemakers already exist. So this is

790
00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:04,840
Speaker 1: to some extent already happening. Wow, we're like miming to

791
00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:08,439
Speaker 1: each other through this is great. Well, off air, Paul did,

792
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:11,560
Speaker 1: Paul did chime in, and we'd love you to chime

793
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:13,600
Speaker 1: in on air sometime. We'll see if we can convince

794
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:15,719
Speaker 1: him in a future episode. Don't let them see behind

795
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:18,200
Speaker 1: the curtain. Well, let us know if you want to

796
00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:20,840
Speaker 1: hear what Paul sounds like, and if he is amenable

797
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:23,839
Speaker 1: to it, we will. We will see, we will see

798
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:28,839
Speaker 1: for sure. But right now, we are not fans of

799
00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:32,000
Speaker 1: things being mandatory. We think that people should have agency

800
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:34,839
Speaker 1: and the ability to make their own decisions. And it

801
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:37,080
Speaker 1: is true. Look, it is true. This is not an

802
00:53:37,080 --> 00:53:43,200
Speaker 1: inherently evil thing. Yes, it just has implications. Not to

803
00:53:43,239 --> 00:53:47,200
Speaker 1: sound too much like Dennis the implication on Always Sunny

804
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:50,799
Speaker 1: in Philadelphia, but yes, yes, it is true. And I

805
00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:53,200
Speaker 1: just want to list something that would be a very

806
00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:57,720
Speaker 1: good aspect of this. Imagine, if we're talking about an

807
00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:02,520
Speaker 1: elderly patient who maybe has memory problems right, and then

808
00:54:02,719 --> 00:54:07,040
Speaker 1: has a regiment of multiple drugs that they must take.

809
00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:10,880
Speaker 1: This could save their lives. Yeah, this could easily, without

810
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:14,040
Speaker 1: a doubt, save their lives and maybe increase the quality

811
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:18,200
Speaker 1: of their life at the same time. But it still

812
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:23,720
Speaker 1: doesn't address the larger question, which is at what price

813
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:28,839
Speaker 1: progress We have established the frequency of significant medical advances

814
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:33,840
Speaker 1: is increasing and you know, un balanced. Overall, this looks

815
00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:37,880
Speaker 1: to be a wonderful phenomenon. It has the potential to

816
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:41,760
Speaker 1: save lives, which is what medicine is supposed to be about,

817
00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:45,360
Speaker 1: saving lives and increasing the quality of those lives until

818
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:50,399
Speaker 1: everybody finally hops out of their cars. Diseases that once

819
00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:53,600
Speaker 1: ravaged entire communities can now be fixed with something as

820
00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:56,200
Speaker 1: simple as a once a day pill schedule or a

821
00:54:56,200 --> 00:54:59,040
Speaker 1: shot in the arm. But the problem is that with

822
00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:03,279
Speaker 1: this still or progress in the field of medicine, we

823
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:06,640
Speaker 1: do not see the same amount of progress, the same

824
00:55:06,680 --> 00:55:10,600
Speaker 1: increasing advances, or the frequency of advances in the halls

825
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:13,239
Speaker 1: of government, right the people making the laws are still

826
00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:16,000
Speaker 1: moving at the same pace. We don't see it in

827
00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:20,680
Speaker 1: the field of bioethics or academia and philosophy. There are

828
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:25,400
Speaker 1: people who are tackling these problems conceptually right and in

829
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:31,040
Speaker 1: an applied manner, But the medicine is evolving faster than

830
00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:35,200
Speaker 1: the social constructs that we have to address it or

831
00:55:35,239 --> 00:55:38,480
Speaker 1: to handle it in the best possible way. And we

832
00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:41,759
Speaker 1: want to hear from you. Are you for this? Are

833
00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:45,120
Speaker 1: you against it? Do you think, on balance it's better

834
00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:48,560
Speaker 1: for this to exist or do you think it could

835
00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:52,879
Speaker 1: be misused abused somehow and if so in what way? Yeah?

836
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:54,960
Speaker 1: Do you think it could benefit your life in some

837
00:55:55,040 --> 00:55:57,439
Speaker 1: way to be able to track the medications you take?

838
00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:01,720
Speaker 1: Or are you nervous about metal in your poop? I mean, honestly,

839
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:05,120
Speaker 1: I am. We didn't we didn't prove that though. Yeah,

840
00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:07,600
Speaker 1: I know, maybe the sensors are made out of something else,

841
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:11,520
Speaker 1: something biological that breaks down. I didn't see anything about

842
00:56:11,560 --> 00:56:14,200
Speaker 1: that in the messaging from the website, but you know,

843
00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:19,560
Speaker 1: perhaps so we want to hear from you. This is

844
00:56:19,600 --> 00:56:24,719
Speaker 1: typically the time where we would do shout out corner, however,

845
00:56:25,600 --> 00:56:30,560
Speaker 1: as we are missing our third a half where we're

846
00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:33,799
Speaker 1: going to hold because this letter that we were going

847
00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:36,000
Speaker 1: to read is a very meaningful one, and I think

848
00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:39,160
Speaker 1: we may have teased in a previous episode, Yes, solving

849
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Speaker 1: some of the mysteries of Georgia Guidestone, so we will

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00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:48,080
Speaker 1: wait until we are voltrons together. Captain planted it up

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00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:52,360
Speaker 1: in full force for that letter M for our shout

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00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:55,799
Speaker 1: out corner. In the meantime, you can find us on Instagram,

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Speaker 1: stuff that you think your fellow listeners would be interested

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Speaker 1: in hearing. It's really simple conspiracy at how Stuff Works

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Speaker 1: dot com. And that's the end of this classic episode.

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00:57:37,080 --> 00:57:40,920
Speaker 1: If you have any thoughts or questions about this episode,

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Speaker 1: are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com. Stuff they Don't Want

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