WEBVTT - Poison Arrows, Chinese Medicine and Werewolves 0:00:03.120 --> 0:00:06.000 Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from how Stuff 0:00:06.000 --> 0:00:13.280 Works dot com. Hey, you're welcome to Stuff to Blow 0:00:13.320 --> 0:00:15.800 your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Christian Sager. 0:00:15.960 --> 0:00:18.319 And today before we get the episodes started, there's a 0:00:18.320 --> 0:00:20.360 few things that we want to let you our audience 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:23.560 know about up top that are coming up in the 0:00:23.560 --> 0:00:25.880 month of October, which is one of our favorite months here. 0:00:26.680 --> 0:00:30.280 First of all, we are going to start doing listener 0:00:30.360 --> 0:00:34.120 mail episodes over periscope. We're going to attempt this. If 0:00:34.159 --> 0:00:37.400 you've ever used the periscope apt before, it's connected to Twitter. 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:40.920 We've been been getting so much listener mail lately that 0:00:40.960 --> 0:00:42.520 we don't really feel like we could do it justice 0:00:42.520 --> 0:00:45.159 in one podcast episode, so we figured we'd give this 0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:47.199 periscope thing a try, and we're going to try it 0:00:47.200 --> 0:00:51.200 out on Friday, October. The second thing that we want 0:00:51.200 --> 0:00:55.000 to let you know about is the return of Monster Science. Now, 0:00:55.040 --> 0:00:56.920 if you're a listener of the podcast but you've never 0:00:56.920 --> 0:00:59.880 seen any of the videos before, I have to recommend 0:00:59.920 --> 0:01:01.960 the you check these out. I wasn't involved in the 0:01:02.040 --> 0:01:04.160 original ones, and it's one of my favorite things that 0:01:04.200 --> 0:01:06.240 we've ever produced here at How Stuff Works. Robert, you 0:01:06.280 --> 0:01:07.680 want to talk a little bit more about it. Yeah, 0:01:07.720 --> 0:01:11.600 we have four new episodes coming at you. In each one, 0:01:12.000 --> 0:01:16.440 Dr Anton Jessup discusses uh the fictional world of monsters 0:01:16.440 --> 0:01:19.160 as well as the real world, the real natural world 0:01:19.440 --> 0:01:22.360 of biology, and finds the comparisons to make between the two. 0:01:22.400 --> 0:01:25.520 So it's it's always a fun video. It's great. Yeah, 0:01:25.600 --> 0:01:28.039 and it has so much value to like the effects 0:01:28.080 --> 0:01:30.399 that are in it that our producer Tyler throws in 0:01:30.560 --> 0:01:33.240 and also like some really cool background props and items 0:01:33.240 --> 0:01:35.160 that you guys get to work with. So if you're 0:01:35.160 --> 0:01:39.160 into horror, if you're excited about Halloween and October, and 0:01:39.200 --> 0:01:41.520 you love science like we do, you should totally check 0:01:41.520 --> 0:01:44.640 out Monster Science. It's already the first two seasons are 0:01:44.640 --> 0:01:47.080 already on YouTube, and if you follow us on Facebook, 0:01:47.319 --> 0:01:49.760 we're gonna be posting at least one or two episodes 0:01:49.800 --> 0:01:52.960 a week directly there for the next couple of weeks 0:01:53.000 --> 0:01:55.160 leading up to Halloween in the new season. Yeah, so 0:01:55.200 --> 0:01:58.600 you can sort of follow the very loose narrative that 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:00.600 that goes through all of these yeah, and and and 0:02:00.680 --> 0:02:02.880 real quick before we get started, just you know, if 0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:04.560 you want to find out any of this stuff, and 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:06.280 you're a fan of the show, and you haven't you 0:02:06.280 --> 0:02:09.560 haven't had the opportunity to learn about these yet. Definitely, 0:02:09.639 --> 0:02:12.120 you know, follow us on social media. We're on Facebook, 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:14.880 We're on Twitter, and Tumbler, all those platforms were blow 0:02:14.919 --> 0:02:17.880 the mind. There's also the home page stuff to blow 0:02:17.919 --> 0:02:20.720 your mind dot com, which is full of blog posts 0:02:20.720 --> 0:02:24.160 that Robert and I and Joe work on, and videos 0:02:24.480 --> 0:02:27.280 older videos that Robert and Julie used to do, and 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:30.520 including all the monster science stuff. So definitely just give 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:33.400 it a shot. And speaking of monsters, today, we are 0:02:33.440 --> 0:02:36.720 talking about a topic that has definite ties into the 0:02:36.800 --> 0:02:40.880 mythological world of monsters, but also uh ties in very 0:02:40.960 --> 0:02:45.040 nicely to themes of biological and chemical weapons and to 0:02:45.720 --> 0:02:50.640 uh into themes of just natural biology and of course 0:02:50.720 --> 0:02:53.560 natural medicine. Yeah, this is a topic that you know, 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:55.760 if you had asked me about a week ago, before 0:02:55.760 --> 0:02:58.040 I'd done the research, I would have just had some vague, 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:02.400 sort of universal pick sure's ideas about what this means. 0:03:02.440 --> 0:03:06.280 So of course we're talking about wolf Spain, yes, and 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:09.359 I honestly I wasn't completely sure it was real and 0:03:09.840 --> 0:03:12.040 very recently me you see it, you hear it mentioned, 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:14.400 it sounds a little bit too cute, right, you know, 0:03:14.520 --> 0:03:17.560 And how do you fight off a werewolf for potentially 0:03:17.600 --> 0:03:21.600 make awarewolf? It gets convoluted. Um, well you find this, uh, 0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:24.120 this this plant, this little flower that's occurring, and it's 0:03:24.120 --> 0:03:27.120 called wolf Spain, ironically enough, and it can be used 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:29.960 against the creature. Yeah. And it turns out this is 0:03:30.000 --> 0:03:33.840 a real thing, very real and very prominent in Northern 0:03:33.880 --> 0:03:37.119 Europe and has a real deep history with a lot 0:03:37.160 --> 0:03:39.880 of interesting sort of connections to how it's used in 0:03:39.920 --> 0:03:42.960 the variations in which people have used it to heal 0:03:43.040 --> 0:03:46.360 and to hurt one another. Uh. And the werewolf thing 0:03:46.440 --> 0:03:49.440 is fascinating. But I also think that it's just it's 0:03:49.480 --> 0:03:54.240 got like a very odd kind of horticultural background to 0:03:54.680 --> 0:03:56.920 something that I'd never heard of, maybe because I've you know, 0:03:57.160 --> 0:03:59.520 I'm not like one foot in the botany world the 0:03:59.560 --> 0:04:02.320 way I'm on foot into the horror world. Yeah, like it. 0:04:02.320 --> 0:04:05.120 It definitely has deep roots, if you will, in the 0:04:05.480 --> 0:04:07.520 in the botany world, and also also in the world 0:04:07.600 --> 0:04:12.120 of traditional medicines, especially traditional Chinese medicine. Yeah. Yeah, so 0:04:12.200 --> 0:04:14.240 all right, what are we actually talking about here? Wolf 0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:17.320 Spain is what exactly. Well, we're talking about the perennial 0:04:17.400 --> 0:04:21.960 herbs of the buttercut family rannow cool, let's say, and 0:04:22.000 --> 0:04:27.480 that's divided into two genera, a contum and Erathus. Yeah, 0:04:27.520 --> 0:04:30.400 and so h Latin is going to be a major 0:04:31.279 --> 0:04:33.160 thing that pops up here in terms of like the 0:04:33.880 --> 0:04:36.440 naming conventions surrounding these plants. And I think there's something 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:41.320 like sixty sixty different subspecies of these, So forgive us 0:04:41.360 --> 0:04:43.839 if our Latin isn't up to par and we're not 0:04:43.839 --> 0:04:47.200 pronouncing these exactly right. But the main thing to know 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:50.760 is that this is largely referred to as a conatum, 0:04:51.320 --> 0:04:54.359 and we'll also be talking about a con night, which 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:58.440 is this deadly poisonous alkaloid that is emitted from the plant, 0:04:58.560 --> 0:05:01.440 primarily from its roots. Yeah, I mean it's present all 0:05:01.480 --> 0:05:04.480 through the plant, but in its roots and root tubers 0:05:04.480 --> 0:05:07.680 that's where you find the highest concentrations. But it's it's 0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:09.599 also in the in the in the leaves, it's in 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:12.240 the flowers, it's in the it's in high levels in 0:05:12.279 --> 0:05:15.800 the pollen. It's crazy dangerous and this is one of 0:05:15.839 --> 0:05:18.120 the things one of the reasons why after doing this research, 0:05:18.160 --> 0:05:20.040 I was like why don't we all know about this 0:05:20.200 --> 0:05:24.400 because this seems like this incredibly dangerous thing that we 0:05:24.560 --> 0:05:28.560 just refer about casually in werewolf movies. Yeah, we'll discuss 0:05:28.600 --> 0:05:30.240 some of the dangers that have But you you find 0:05:30.240 --> 0:05:33.760 it throughout the northern hemisphere, um in in in America, 0:05:33.839 --> 0:05:37.680 you find it throughout Eurasia, and accidents do occur, and 0:05:37.720 --> 0:05:40.720 it's mostly native to mountains. It's known as a rock 0:05:40.760 --> 0:05:44.039 flower and some uh, some parts of the world because 0:05:44.040 --> 0:05:47.279 it grows up out of spaces in between rocks. But 0:05:47.360 --> 0:05:51.760 there's primarily two sort of informal categories. There's monkshood and 0:05:51.800 --> 0:05:55.760 there's wolf spain. Uh. And it's called monkshood because of 0:05:56.120 --> 0:05:59.120 its shape, So it has this U shape to it. 0:05:59.320 --> 0:06:01.320 They call it the sepals. I guess those are like 0:06:01.360 --> 0:06:04.159 the upper petals um that kind of curve over and 0:06:04.240 --> 0:06:06.479 look like the hood over like I guess like a 0:06:06.520 --> 0:06:10.360 capuchin monk or something like that. Um. And there's different colors, right, 0:06:10.400 --> 0:06:13.120 So the monks hoods usually are like dark blues or 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:17.880 purple's sometimes that you'll find them in white variations, whereas 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:22.400 like wolf spain is usually yellow. Sometimes it's lavender or pink, 0:06:22.760 --> 0:06:26.960 and those are commonly grown in the Alps of Switzerland, actually, 0:06:26.960 --> 0:06:29.320 which again I didn't I had no idea. Yeah, the 0:06:29.400 --> 0:06:32.479 hills are alive and uh and it's it's important to 0:06:32.480 --> 0:06:35.320 to to drive home to here that the reason that this, uh, 0:06:35.400 --> 0:06:39.560 this thing is just so filled with toxic alkaloids is 0:06:39.600 --> 0:06:44.040 because it's it's in essence, the chemical prodect protection against herbivores. Yeah, 0:06:44.279 --> 0:06:46.960 I mean some of the not just some of the 0:06:46.960 --> 0:06:49.040 ways that this has been used against humans, but also 0:06:49.120 --> 0:06:53.159 animals I thought was uh, pretty mortifying. But I guess, 0:06:53.200 --> 0:06:54.880 you know, maybe I'm coming at it from a modern 0:06:54.960 --> 0:06:58.240 day standpoint where I wouldn't purposely poison horses, for instance. 0:06:58.240 --> 0:07:02.000 But we'll get into that. So, okay, there's a there's 0:07:02.040 --> 0:07:07.000 an interesting etymology behind this particular flower. So the name 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:09.800 is thought to be derived from the Greek word I 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:14.560 think it's a conaton, which means without struggle. But there's 0:07:14.600 --> 0:07:17.360 also an idea that it also comes from the Greek 0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:21.280 word a con which is word for dart or javelin, 0:07:21.440 --> 0:07:23.960 And we'll talk about that later. But it primarily has 0:07:24.000 --> 0:07:27.040 to do with this substance being coded on those weapons 0:07:27.480 --> 0:07:32.320 us more essentially a chemical weapon. It's also thought to 0:07:32.400 --> 0:07:35.800 come from the word Akona, which is a word connected 0:07:35.840 --> 0:07:37.800 to rocky grounds, like I just said, like it grows 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:40.920 up in mountainous regions. And actually Pliny the Elder talked 0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:42.800 about it and some of his writings, and he said 0:07:43.360 --> 0:07:46.000 that it might be connected to the port of Akina, 0:07:46.400 --> 0:07:49.800 which was apparently a place known for evil repute um. 0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:51.960 And that's you know, again connected to it because of 0:07:52.000 --> 0:07:55.520 the whole poison in the Aconite thing. So the last 0:07:55.560 --> 0:08:00.320 one apparently acon All those kinds of iterations within Greek 0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:04.160 all have kind of deadly meanings. So a wet stone 0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:09.320 is apparently pronounced at home in Greek. And uh, that's 0:08:09.320 --> 0:08:10.960 so if you don't know, that's the like the thing 0:08:11.000 --> 0:08:13.520 that you used to sharpen a sword, basically, and they 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:15.800 think that that might also be in origin for it. 0:08:15.880 --> 0:08:19.280 Because it's like a wet stone, it makes a blade 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:22.680 even deadlier. So how do people end up finding them 0:08:22.720 --> 0:08:25.840 self poisoned by wolf spain? Uh? They're basically two ways. 0:08:25.840 --> 0:08:27.560 And it depends on where you are in the world. 0:08:27.960 --> 0:08:31.000 If you if you reside in the East, if particularly 0:08:31.040 --> 0:08:34.160 if you're if you're in China, then there's a very 0:08:34.200 --> 0:08:37.600 good chance that you might encounter it through traditional medicine. 0:08:37.880 --> 0:08:40.559 And if the proportions are long, if it are wrong, 0:08:40.600 --> 0:08:43.160 if it hasn't been prepared properly, or you take too 0:08:43.280 --> 0:08:46.760 much of it, uh and it's prepared form, then you 0:08:46.800 --> 0:08:50.640 can become poisoned by the aconite. Yeah, and it's nasty stuff. 0:08:50.720 --> 0:08:53.600 And and then you know there's just the casual like 0:08:53.720 --> 0:08:56.880 walking by it or accidentally putting it to your lips, 0:08:56.920 --> 0:08:59.600 to which you know, surprisingly happens more often then you think. 0:08:59.600 --> 0:09:03.199 In fact, last year, there was a thirty three year 0:09:03.200 --> 0:09:07.360 old gardener named Nathan Greenaway and he worked He worked 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:09.959 at this place called mill Court House, which was owned 0:09:09.960 --> 0:09:14.240 by like a retired ventured capitalist named Christopher Ogilvy Thompson uh. 0:09:14.760 --> 0:09:19.000 And apparently they had wolfspand growing in their giant garden 0:09:19.520 --> 0:09:22.560 and Nathan didn't know this. He brushed up against it 0:09:22.600 --> 0:09:25.400 and it killed him within a day. Um. And some 0:09:25.440 --> 0:09:27.960 people speculate, you know, it's it's worse if you have 0:09:28.040 --> 0:09:30.320 like open wounds on your hands. Apparently this guy wasn't 0:09:30.320 --> 0:09:33.640 wearing gloves at the time. But it's pretty dangerous. In fact, 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:36.120 some people over the years have even mistaken it for 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:39.160 horse radish and put their roots in their mouth and 0:09:39.240 --> 0:09:42.760 died from it, so it leads to bad results. Um. 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:45.280 And before we get into the werewolves and the poisons 0:09:45.320 --> 0:09:48.000 and the herbology and all that stuff. Um, we'll just 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:50.720 kind of briefly talk about why this thing is so toxic. 0:09:50.880 --> 0:09:53.040 So we know that the roots and the tubers are 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:57.520 especially toxic. It's really prevalent, especially you know, it can 0:09:57.520 --> 0:10:00.560 be absorbed through your skin, and how to be handled 0:10:00.559 --> 0:10:03.160 with extreme care because of those alkaloids that we were 0:10:03.160 --> 0:10:06.720 talking about before. Um. But but what is the actual 0:10:06.760 --> 0:10:10.680 effect of this thing? Right? So it produces a topical 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:14.679 tingling at first, kind of like an anesthetic, I'm assuming, uh, 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:18.760 and followed by I guess like it's an altered state. 0:10:19.200 --> 0:10:21.680 I wouldn't call it hallucinating, but it's kind of like 0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:24.560 your mind is affected. And we'll talk about different ways 0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:26.920 in which people have used it purposely to affect their 0:10:26.960 --> 0:10:29.200 own minds. But it sounds to me like it's sort 0:10:29.200 --> 0:10:33.160 of like a a state that slows down the mind 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:37.000 and sort of puts most things out of your your 0:10:37.040 --> 0:10:40.280 thoughts so you can focus singularly. Yeah, And there's a 0:10:40.400 --> 0:10:42.520 there's a lot of mention in the in the literature 0:10:42.520 --> 0:10:44.760 about particularly when we get into its use with a 0:10:44.840 --> 0:10:49.199 poison that that it you remain very clear headed until 0:10:49.200 --> 0:10:53.040 the very ends, kind of adding to the nefarious nature 0:10:53.160 --> 0:10:56.679 of it as a weapon. Having just gone under anesthetic yesterday, 0:10:56.880 --> 0:10:59.240 I can I can imagine what the effects are like. 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:04.280 But yeah, so all you need is three to six 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:08.720 milligrams of aconite to kill a healthy adult Like this 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:11.680 stuff is so potent, just like a few grams of 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:15.240 the plant matter touching your hands or obviously being ingested 0:11:15.360 --> 0:11:18.720 is super dangerous. Uh. And I found there's an old 0:11:18.800 --> 0:11:23.480 nineteen eleven Encyclopedia Britannica entry that mentioned that some people 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:28.040 purposely put the pedal or the roots to their lips 0:11:28.679 --> 0:11:31.280 to produce like a numbness or a tingling. I guess 0:11:31.320 --> 0:11:35.320 it's like the whippets of the Turn of the Sectary. Yeah, 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:39.920 a very dangerous um practice indeed, though, because you need 0:11:39.960 --> 0:11:42.640 to make sure you just get enough of it to 0:11:42.640 --> 0:11:46.440 to inspire tingling and numbness and not you know, poison 0:11:46.480 --> 0:11:49.120 you to death. Yeah. Absolutely, um. And this is the 0:11:49.120 --> 0:11:53.480 horse thing, which I found unfortunate, but apparently horse dealers 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:56.280 used to use this. They'd feed it to their horses 0:11:56.320 --> 0:11:59.280 before they brought their animals to market, and the reason 0:11:59.320 --> 0:12:02.319 why was it works the opposite on horses. It stimulates 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:04.520 horses and makes them lively. So if you had an old, 0:12:04.520 --> 0:12:06.160 tired horse and you're trying to get rid of it, 0:12:06.360 --> 0:12:08.280 you give it a little bit of wolf spain, bring 0:12:08.280 --> 0:12:10.360 it to market, and it appears more lively and you're 0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:12.079 more likely to sell it. And then you know, the 0:12:12.120 --> 0:12:14.280 person who buys it gets at home and realize that 0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:17.800 this is a very tired horse. All right, Well, let's 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:20.959 let's get into the werewolf mythology a little bit. And 0:12:21.160 --> 0:12:23.920 I think like one of the key things here that 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:26.520 we keep finding is that you see wolf spain mentioned 0:12:26.559 --> 0:12:30.720 as both a preventative measure and uh and and also 0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:33.080 the cause of leokanthropy. Yeah, that was the thing that 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:35.599 was confusing to me. So before going into this, I 0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:38.280 had always heard of it through the myths, I guess, 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:40.880 or the fiction that I had encountered as being the 0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:43.320 thing that you use. It's like other than a silver bullet, 0:12:43.320 --> 0:12:46.160 it's like the only thing that can stop a werewolf, right. Uh. 0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:48.720 And I think there's like a Marvel Comics like X 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:52.440 Men character whose name I don't think, I know. There's 0:12:52.440 --> 0:12:55.520 a there's an X Men character named wolf Spain. The 0:12:55.640 --> 0:12:58.520 name doesn't really make sense because as you suspect her 0:12:58.520 --> 0:13:02.560 powers that she transforms into a werewolf. So what, like, 0:13:03.360 --> 0:13:07.640 I don't understand. I guess why there's the divergence in 0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:10.400 the mythos there of like it's the thing that will 0:13:10.480 --> 0:13:12.319 kill a werewolf, but it's also the thing that will 0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:15.360 turn you into a werewolf. Yeah, I don't know. It's 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:19.000 just so tied to how a werewolf works that you 0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:20.800 can be Yeah, I mean, it's it's kind of it 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:23.520 kind of represents the dual nature of the of the 0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:27.800 substance itself, right and incorrect proportions. It can be used 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:31.280 as a medicine and in um strong enough dosus and 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:33.560 or you know which doesn't doesn't take very much. As 0:13:33.559 --> 0:13:37.040 we've already discussed, you have a dire weapon on your hands, 0:13:37.160 --> 0:13:39.040 you know what. That's a really good point actually, And 0:13:39.200 --> 0:13:45.920 so there's definitely historical connections to the poison part because Akinaton, 0:13:46.520 --> 0:13:50.160 like I'm going to pronounce this wrong, like a tonum 0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:53.640 uh is this is the genus that's essentially uh the 0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:56.800 wolf Spain, the like prominent wolf Spain. It was originally 0:13:56.920 --> 0:14:00.520 used as a way to kill panthers and wolves and 0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:04.280 other quote wild beasts. Uh, and it was considered deadly 0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:06.160 to them. One of the quotes that I read from 0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:09.160 an old textbook said it kills them in the same 0:14:09.280 --> 0:14:11.520 day if you put the root or the leaf on 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:15.480 the animals genitals. So I don't know, I don't know 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:18.920 how they're grabbing a wolf and and rubbing the leaves 0:14:18.920 --> 0:14:22.080 of wolf spain on its genitals. But the other thing 0:14:22.120 --> 0:14:24.400 that I heard was that they used to lure wolves out, 0:14:24.440 --> 0:14:26.680 but they would take like chunks of raw meat and 0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:30.320 they would mix in wolf spain juice a sense essentially 0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:32.920 into this stuff, throw it out. Everybody would go into 0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:34.600 their homes. The wolves would come out and eat the 0:14:34.640 --> 0:14:38.160 stuff and be dead like a day later. Yeah, it's 0:14:38.280 --> 0:14:41.640 it's it's interesting to see the connection here between wolf 0:14:41.680 --> 0:14:45.240 spaane and the and using it as a a turrent 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:48.960 against wolves and they're they're likewise. There are some arguments 0:14:49.000 --> 0:14:51.600 that the werewolf myth has its roots, So you know, 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:53.520 I don't not only in sort of the dual nature 0:14:53.560 --> 0:14:56.480 of man is you know, a beast but also you know, 0:14:56.520 --> 0:15:00.840 a higher animal, but but also in our older struggles 0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:04.440 against wolves where we were having to compete against wolves 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:07.400 for resources. Yeah, it's not something that we run into 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:10.080 on a daily basis now, or at least I guess 0:15:10.120 --> 0:15:13.360 maybe in our culture we don't. But but yeah, I 0:15:13.400 --> 0:15:15.400 was thinking about this, like, as I was doing the research, 0:15:15.480 --> 0:15:18.400 my dog often hangs out next to my office desk 0:15:18.440 --> 0:15:20.120 and just kind of you know, looks up at me, 0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:22.400 and occasionally I pat him and stuff. And I thought, well, 0:15:22.400 --> 0:15:25.960 we have a very different relationship with these animals today. Yeah, 0:15:26.000 --> 0:15:27.600 I mean you look. I mean, of course, you can 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:30.680 look at very recent history and the United States even 0:15:30.760 --> 0:15:34.840 with the poisoning of wolves and very large numbers to 0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:38.000 the point where we we've had to to help bring 0:15:38.040 --> 0:15:40.560 the numbers back up in the wild. Uh So, yeah, 0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:43.360 we have a very troubled history with with the canines. 0:15:43.840 --> 0:15:46.920 But so there's there's there's a lot of folklore connected 0:15:46.960 --> 0:15:49.280 to this, and I think you're right to say that 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:51.720 it it comes from the sort of dual nature of 0:15:51.720 --> 0:15:55.040 it being both a poison and a cure. Yeah. I 0:15:55.080 --> 0:15:58.960 was looking in the Larust Dictionary of World Folklore, and 0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:01.640 it's pointed out there that according to some folk police 0:16:01.680 --> 0:16:04.120 that if you apply to fatal dose wolf bane would 0:16:04.120 --> 0:16:06.400 repel a werewolf, which which seems kind of like a 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:10.160 no brainer. It would repel anything like this is a 0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:13.120 powerful poison, so I should hope it would work against 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:16.240 the werewolf that's threatening my village. Right. If it doesn't, 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:19.560 then I'm I'm kind of boned, right, Yeah, I mean, 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:22.760 even in the horse case, I think it's still poisonous. Yeah, 0:16:22.800 --> 0:16:26.480 it just has different sort of side effects and uh. 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:30.080 And in the Lorusa Dictionary World Folklore also mentioned that 0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:33.880 as an ointment, it could transform a sorcerer into a werewolf, 0:16:34.640 --> 0:16:37.400 though obviously a very careful dosage would be needed to 0:16:37.400 --> 0:16:42.440 avoid certain death um this uh And it's also mentioned 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:45.840 that it's possible that like a correct dosage level might 0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:51.320 have created or helped to create an allucinogenic effect um, 0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:54.520 which I'm not as sure about based on our reading, 0:16:54.960 --> 0:16:59.000 especially you know, the descriptions of aconite poisoning keeping you 0:16:59.080 --> 0:17:02.560 pretty uh stable in the mind up until the very end, 0:17:02.960 --> 0:17:07.040 with some possible effects on how you're perceiving the world, 0:17:07.040 --> 0:17:09.959 but not like a strong hallucinatory effect. So I'm not 0:17:10.000 --> 0:17:14.840 so sure about sorcerers taken aconite and having a werewolf 0:17:15.119 --> 0:17:19.159 paranormal experience, unless they are combining, say the physical numbers 0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:21.520 with some other agent. Yeah. I might be jumping a 0:17:21.560 --> 0:17:23.679 little bit ahead here, but I think I have a 0:17:23.760 --> 0:17:27.000 theory for where this werewolf thing came from it and 0:17:27.119 --> 0:17:31.240 maybe not the sorcerer's standpoint, from the people watching somebody 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:34.800 proclaiming themselves to be a sorcerer taking this stuff. So 0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:38.160 there's two things. First of all, when you're poisoned by this, uh, 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:41.320 a lot of times you end up foaming at the mouth. Um, 0:17:41.440 --> 0:17:44.520 So there's clearly a connection there. In fact, there's a 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:47.520 there's a connection to the hellhound Cerebrius that we'll talk 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:51.720 about in a moment, But there's you know, also this 0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:56.200 idea apparently that German berserkers used to take it right 0:17:56.200 --> 0:17:59.040 before they would go into battle, because they wanted to 0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:02.199 be mindless right before they went into a fight. And 0:18:02.400 --> 0:18:05.600 again they would foam at the mouth, supposedly, So you 0:18:05.640 --> 0:18:08.320 have these German berserkers running at you, foaming at the mouth, 0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:11.520 and I can see where folklore would spin out from 0:18:11.600 --> 0:18:15.000 that that like these men had turned themselves into beasts, 0:18:15.280 --> 0:18:19.359 you know, somehow, and they're sacrificing their their humanity in 0:18:19.440 --> 0:18:22.880 order to win the war. Remembering some of the various 0:18:22.880 --> 0:18:26.479 symptoms of aconite poisoning. Though, It's like I'm imagining this 0:18:26.760 --> 0:18:29.520 berserker running into battle. He's foaming at the mouth, he's 0:18:29.600 --> 0:18:32.639 kind of numb all over, fierce diarrhea like you know, 0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:35.760 so I guess vomiting, yeah, and then and then collapsing 0:18:35.840 --> 0:18:38.440 and twitter. Yeah, it's definitely like, if you're going to 0:18:38.560 --> 0:18:40.840 take this stuff, it's like a comic coze maneuver, right, 0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:43.400 because there's no way you're coming back from that fight. Yeah, 0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:49.080 I mean it seems like now in terms of causing werewolves. 0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:50.439 So you know, we're not going to spend too much 0:18:50.480 --> 0:18:53.359 more time on this podcast talking about werewolves, but I 0:18:53.720 --> 0:18:57.520 did want to run through, uh many some of the 0:18:57.600 --> 0:18:59.920 many ways you can turn into a werewolf according to 0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:03.840 world folklore, and these come from Carol Rose is always 0:19:03.880 --> 0:19:07.680 excellent Giants, Monsters and Dragons, Encyclopedia, Folklore, legend and myth. 0:19:08.160 --> 0:19:10.560 So let's just let's just roll back and back and 0:19:10.600 --> 0:19:14.800 forth on this list here. First up, classic lunar induced transformation, 0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:17.480 full moon pops out right turns into a wolf. And 0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:20.240 then there's of course the curse, like somebody curses you 0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:24.160 and you become a werewolf. Right. Then there's magical pelt 0:19:24.200 --> 0:19:26.840 induced transformation, which we don't see enough of. You know, 0:19:27.280 --> 0:19:29.639 work you wear the pelt of the wolf. Yeah, you 0:19:29.720 --> 0:19:32.199 have like a magical wolf pelt. Put it on, and 0:19:32.200 --> 0:19:34.480 then you become a wolf. All right. And then there's 0:19:34.520 --> 0:19:38.199 something called new moon conception induced transformation. What's that? Just 0:19:38.280 --> 0:19:40.840 when the moon is new you're going to see you 0:19:40.960 --> 0:19:43.879 hearing a new moon, and then obviously you're gonna be 0:19:43.880 --> 0:19:47.280 born a worlf. Oh interesting, okay, all right, here's a 0:19:47.359 --> 0:19:52.040 here's a variation on that Friday full moon slumber induced transformation. 0:19:52.359 --> 0:19:56.000 So um, this one is basically, there's a full moon 0:19:56.040 --> 0:19:59.200 on a Friday, you sleep during it, Boom, your werewolf. 0:20:00.760 --> 0:20:02.879 I would be in werewolf trouble done because that happens 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:05.399 a lot. Uh. And then there's of course, if a 0:20:05.400 --> 0:20:08.679 wolf touched the water that you're consuming, that's something that 0:20:08.720 --> 0:20:11.520 would theoretically turn you into a werewolf. Yeah, yeah, that 0:20:11.600 --> 0:20:14.600 one that makes sense. It makes sense. Yeah, just you're 0:20:14.680 --> 0:20:18.280 coming into sort of contact with the beast wolf. Brain 0:20:18.359 --> 0:20:20.720 consumption induced transformation. So you eat the brain of a 0:20:20.760 --> 0:20:23.600 wolf and then you you take on partially that the 0:20:23.600 --> 0:20:25.720 mind and spirit of a wolf. And then so this 0:20:25.840 --> 0:20:29.000 next one, it sounds like it's a wolf and human 0:20:29.119 --> 0:20:32.480 flesh combined. You eat it, and then you become by 0:20:32.640 --> 0:20:34.840 eating the two things together, you merge them so that 0:20:34.920 --> 0:20:38.560 you're sort of a bipedal wolf creature. Yeah, okay, then 0:20:38.600 --> 0:20:40.760 that's ancient Greek. Yeah, that's an ancient Greek one. They're 0:20:41.200 --> 0:20:45.080 then besality induced transformation also makes sense. You're laying with 0:20:45.119 --> 0:20:48.960 the beast, and therefore you're becoming partially beast. So Catherine 0:20:48.960 --> 0:20:52.080 the Great would then like be half horse. I mean 0:20:52.119 --> 0:20:55.439 if you buy into those smiths, right, Yeah, well I 0:20:55.520 --> 0:21:00.800 buy into the wolf brain consumption one. Why wouldn't And oh, 0:21:00.840 --> 0:21:03.320 well we've got you know, we've also got over zealous 0:21:03.440 --> 0:21:08.399 Zeus worship transformation. So if you're you're two into Zeus, 0:21:09.160 --> 0:21:11.919 there's a certain amount of worshiping Zeus that works. But 0:21:11.960 --> 0:21:14.760 if you're too into Zeus, you can turn into a werewolf. Yes, 0:21:14.800 --> 0:21:17.000 and that comes from the Greek myth of like canon 0:21:17.160 --> 0:21:20.600 and uh, and there's some other details going on in 0:21:20.600 --> 0:21:22.560 that story too, but essentially the route there is he 0:21:22.600 --> 0:21:26.200 was just really over those Yeah. Uh, there's seasonal feast 0:21:26.200 --> 0:21:29.480