WEBVTT - What's Really Going On At the Columbia Palestine Encampment 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:04.920 Also media. 0:00:05.480 --> 0:00:07.920 Welcome to Dick It Happen Here, a podcast coming to 0:00:08.000 --> 0:00:10.640 you from a week where decades are happening. I'm your 0:00:10.640 --> 0:00:14.000 host Nia. Long with me is James Stout Hi May 0:00:14.480 --> 0:00:17.840 great to be here and also with us as Talia Jane, 0:00:17.880 --> 0:00:21.200 an independent journalist covering social movements and protests who is 0:00:21.239 --> 0:00:25.800 currently covering the Gaza solidarity encampments at Columbia University. Talia, 0:00:25.800 --> 0:00:26.560 Welcome to the show. 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:28.440 Thanks for having me, guys. 0:00:29.360 --> 0:00:30.600 Hey, thanks for doing you guys. 0:00:31.360 --> 0:00:33.080 Hell yeah, yeah. 0:00:33.120 --> 0:00:35.839 So I'm excited. I'm excited to talk about the Columbia occupation. 0:00:35.960 --> 0:00:38.960 I also want to briefly mention that there are a 0:00:39.000 --> 0:00:42.520 lot of there's been a wave of occupations of campuses 0:00:42.720 --> 0:00:46.960 across the country just right now. This is being recorded 0:00:47.000 --> 0:00:49.599 on Wednesday night. By the time this goes up on 0:00:49.800 --> 0:00:52.199 like Friday, a lot of the stuff we're going to 0:00:52.240 --> 0:00:53.599 be saying is probably going to be at a date 0:00:53.600 --> 0:00:56.080 because everything's moving really quickly. But I mean there's occupations 0:00:56.080 --> 0:00:59.840 obviously like Columbia. There's like CSU, Humboldt, University of Texas, 0:00:59.840 --> 0:01:03.720 at Austin, Ohio, State Harvard, Yale, Berkeley, some University in Italy, 0:01:03.960 --> 0:01:07.840 Emerson Tuffs, MIT, NYU, City, University of New York, the 0:01:07.880 --> 0:01:11.600 New Schools, University of Rochester, University of Pittsburgh USC, University 0:01:11.600 --> 0:01:16.479 of Minnesota, University of Michigan, Vanderbilt UNC, Chapel Hill. I mean, 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:19.080 there's so many of these. By the time that this 0:01:19.160 --> 0:01:21.840 goes up, there will be more of them. Yeah, it's 0:01:21.880 --> 0:01:26.400 been wild. There's been a lot of I mean at 0:01:26.480 --> 0:01:28.920 Humboldt there was a lot of very intense fighting with 0:01:28.959 --> 0:01:31.959 the police. A bunch of kids occupied a building. They 0:01:32.000 --> 0:01:34.600 beat the shit while Okay, that's going a bit too far, 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:37.000 but they barricaded it, kept the cops from coming in, 0:01:37.200 --> 0:01:41.520 cops ran off of campus. So, lots of incredibly wild 0:01:41.560 --> 0:01:45.520 stuff happening. Yeah, which I guess brings us to the 0:01:45.560 --> 0:01:49.320 Gauza the I guess the original one, the first one 0:01:49.320 --> 0:01:51.480 they got a lot of media attention, the Gauza Solidarity 0:01:51.520 --> 0:01:52.640 Acampment at Columbia. 0:01:53.200 --> 0:01:53.440 Yeah. 0:01:53.480 --> 0:01:56.320 So, Telly, I wanted to ask you, so, how did 0:01:56.320 --> 0:01:58.480 this sort of start and what's kind of been making 0:01:58.480 --> 0:02:01.720 it different from the really pretty large number of other 0:02:02.760 --> 0:02:06.120 Free Palestine anti genocide protests that have been on campuses 0:02:06.120 --> 0:02:11.560 and off campuses for the past, Like time at six 0:02:11.639 --> 0:02:12.440 seven months. 0:02:12.840 --> 0:02:17.079 Yeah, well, I think the genesis of this was that 0:02:17.160 --> 0:02:21.480 Columbia University, as we've seen in universities across the country, 0:02:21.520 --> 0:02:27.280 suspended a number of pro Palestine advocacy student groups. They 0:02:27.760 --> 0:02:32.239 were very slow to move their feet about targeted attacks 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:36.800 against students who were demonstrating for Palestine, including an incident 0:02:36.840 --> 0:02:40.079 where someone was allegedly sprayed with a chemical irritant, or 0:02:40.080 --> 0:02:45.080 people were sprayed with a chemical irritant by former IOF 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:50.400 soldiers who are also students here. And just this, you know, 0:02:50.600 --> 0:02:55.959 building tension of there is a actual genocide occurring, and 0:02:56.919 --> 0:03:02.880 universities are being forced to bend towards the people committing 0:03:02.919 --> 0:03:06.280 the genocide instead of standing on the right side of history, 0:03:07.120 --> 0:03:09.919 or they're actively choosing to do that too, because their 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:13.800 whole thing is not about actually educating people and preparing 0:03:13.840 --> 0:03:20.960 them to be tomorrow's leaders and managers or baristas, but 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:24.760 to get people, you know, to give them money to 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:30.440 fill their coffers and portray this image of you know, 0:03:31.000 --> 0:03:35.280 exceptionalism and elitism and whatnot. So that was the genesis. 0:03:35.320 --> 0:03:39.880 And then on Tuesday night I got a text at 0:03:40.040 --> 0:03:43.160 like eleven pm, I want to say, asking me if 0:03:43.200 --> 0:03:47.120 I wanted to come cover a late night slash early 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:51.200 morning de occupation demo. And this was from someone I'd 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:53.240 never talked to before. I had no idea who it was, 0:03:53.880 --> 0:03:56.400 but they said it was a Columbia and they said 0:03:56.400 --> 0:03:57.960 it was late night, early morning. I thought I'd be 0:03:57.960 --> 0:04:00.600 out of here at you know, ten am the next day, 0:04:02.920 --> 0:04:06.920 and then, you know, standing there witnessing it all unfold, 0:04:06.920 --> 0:04:10.640 it became pretty evident that that was not the case. 0:04:10.680 --> 0:04:13.360 And I think the reason why this stands out is 0:04:13.400 --> 0:04:17.920 because this is an elite university where you can't say, oh, well, 0:04:17.920 --> 0:04:21.360 these are just dumb TikTok kids. These are kids who 0:04:21.440 --> 0:04:24.360 have like the these are like adults who have you know, 0:04:24.440 --> 0:04:30.560 they have incredible resumes, really high academic excellence. They got 0:04:30.560 --> 0:04:34.800 into an extremely difficult school to get into, and they 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:39.840 are joining the ranks of the you know, frazzled fringe, 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:46.360 stinky anarchists and the silly kids who are being brainwashed 0:04:46.360 --> 0:04:49.640 by TikTok. And they said, like, no, those people are right, 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:52.680 like this is bad and you need to disclose and 0:04:52.760 --> 0:04:54.880 divest and we're not going to stop until you do. 0:04:55.720 --> 0:04:59.640 And I think that that stance from a position of 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:06.320 fledge really shook things up. What followed also set a 0:05:06.400 --> 0:05:10.080 tone of the university deciding to call the police and 0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:15.680 claiming that this encampment was it posed a clear and 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:21.080 present danger to the safety of students on campus, which 0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:24.760 you know, anyone who has spent any length of time 0:05:25.200 --> 0:05:27.440 in or around the encampment can plainly see that that 0:05:27.560 --> 0:05:30.719 is nonsensical. It's absurd. These are kids that are studying 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:33.400 on a lawn. But that choice of bringing the NYPD 0:05:33.480 --> 0:05:36.440 in and having one hundred and eight students arrested by 0:05:36.480 --> 0:05:40.080 the NYPD Strategic Response Group, which is their you know, 0:05:40.160 --> 0:05:45.320 counter terrorism goon squad that violently represses protests pretty consistently, 0:05:45.680 --> 0:05:49.400 to have them arrest one hundred nate people, including carrying 0:05:49.400 --> 0:05:52.239 them out from by their arms and lengths and arresting 0:05:52.320 --> 0:05:56.960 legal observers. You know that that was like this is 0:05:57.160 --> 0:06:00.760 that it was an outsized response for something that was straightforward. 0:06:00.800 --> 0:06:03.760 They're hanging out on a lawn. They have everything set 0:06:03.839 --> 0:06:07.599 up to sustain within that space. They are not going 0:06:07.600 --> 0:06:10.720 out and roaming around and you know, breaking things or 0:06:10.720 --> 0:06:14.559 assaulting people or anything like that, and they're just using 0:06:14.600 --> 0:06:18.080 this to call attention to their cause, which is divestment 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:22.680 from genocide and from you know, war profiteering and to 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:29.279 and the school's gentrification of Harlem and to you know, 0:06:29.360 --> 0:06:35.320 a institute an academic boycott of Israel and Israeli campuses 0:06:35.360 --> 0:06:39.560 that are in community with Colombia, like their satellite schools, 0:06:40.000 --> 0:06:44.200 that bring the IOF soldiers to Colombia to commit harm 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:46.720 against students here. And you know, so these are these 0:06:46.720 --> 0:06:51.680 are very basic asks and they were met with state force, 0:06:52.720 --> 0:06:56.440 signed off by the president of the school. And seeing that, 0:06:56.520 --> 0:06:59.720 I think is what provoked a lot of other schools 0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:02.440 of like Columbia's doing it. Then we definitely got to 0:07:03.160 --> 0:07:08.160 because you have a major elite institution taking this step 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:11.440 making clear that this is not just a cause that 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:15.800 you know, the scrappy little weirdos at the bottom like 0:07:15.960 --> 0:07:19.240 me care about, you know. And so I think that's 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:23.440 what set it off. And the fact that they returned 0:07:24.200 --> 0:07:28.800 they just took over the other lawn while while their 0:07:29.480 --> 0:07:33.720 classmates were being processed after being arrested, they just took 0:07:33.720 --> 0:07:35.720 over the other one and they're like, all right, we're 0:07:35.760 --> 0:07:40.080 gonna set it up here was such a hilariously like 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:45.520 based move that it was like the defiance and the 0:07:45.600 --> 0:07:50.960 determination was undeniable. And when you see a group like 0:07:51.040 --> 0:07:54.240 with the students at Humboldt, where the cops with the 0:07:54.320 --> 0:07:56.800 riot shields are trying to barge in and they're pushing 0:07:56.800 --> 0:07:59.520 them back and they're screaming get the fuck out, and 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:02.760 they're bonking them over the head with the empty water jug. 0:08:03.120 --> 0:08:05.480 When you see things like that, yeah, when you see 0:08:05.520 --> 0:08:10.360 things like that, it's very like there is an energy 0:08:10.440 --> 0:08:13.800 to this that has always been there but that has 0:08:13.840 --> 0:08:20.120 not been very easily seen by the masses, and we're 0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:23.200 now seeing it show its head of like, no, we're 0:08:23.200 --> 0:08:25.480 not fucking around, like you need to listen to us. 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:28.760 We're tired of the song and dance game that you're 0:08:28.760 --> 0:08:32.080 doing dismissing all of our valid concerns because we know 0:08:32.800 --> 0:08:36.320 concretely and statistically that we are on the right side 0:08:36.320 --> 0:08:39.319 of history, and we're going to make you listen and 0:08:40.040 --> 0:08:43.079 trust that if you beat us up, we're coming back. 0:08:43.640 --> 0:08:46.120 Like we're not going away. It doesn't scare us, which 0:08:46.160 --> 0:08:50.040 is what the kids at a UT Austin were chanting. 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:52.560 I think when they brought the horses and the state 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:55.560 troopers in. It's like, we're not scared of you. And 0:08:55.600 --> 0:09:00.079 that tone has permeated throughout the demonstration's four Palace to 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:04.640 New Liberation since in prior to October. But if you 0:09:04.640 --> 0:09:07.360 don't follow the protests, or if you only go by 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:11.200 what the major news outlets are saying about them, you 0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:14.319 don't see that tone. So this, for me, is not surprising. 0:09:15.600 --> 0:09:20.160 This is a continuation of an energy that has not 0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:23.040 ceased for upwards of six months. I think it's the 0:09:23.160 --> 0:09:28.079 two hundred and first day of the genocide. So it's 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:31.600 not surprising for people who've paid attention. It's a relief 0:09:31.760 --> 0:09:35.160 for kids who are here and who have been involved, 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:38.120 and who have been silenced and ignored and written off 0:09:38.120 --> 0:09:40.480 this whole time. It's a very long answer. 0:09:40.520 --> 0:09:42.760 I know that's a good one, though. I think it's 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:46.080 a It's great to have your perspective if someone who's 0:09:46.080 --> 0:09:49.959 been on the ground. One thing I wanted to ask is, like, obviously, 0:09:50.200 --> 0:09:53.400 this is a protest that its core is about state violence, 0:09:53.600 --> 0:09:56.840 and it has predictably enough, been responded to with state violence, 0:09:57.400 --> 0:10:01.679 And like you said that, people were really not swayed 0:10:01.760 --> 0:10:03.880 by that. I wonder if you've seen people who kind 0:10:03.880 --> 0:10:07.520 of had the opposite reaction, Like I kind of remember 0:10:08.400 --> 0:10:10.600 the student protests that I have been involved in. I'm 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:12.880 just going to say that, and I can remember, like 0:10:12.920 --> 0:10:18.360 the reaction by students when seeing that fellow students being 0:10:18.400 --> 0:10:21.080 assaulted by the police was like, okay, fuck this, Like 0:10:21.640 --> 0:10:23.520 you know, like Georgio Wah has this thing about like 0:10:24.080 --> 0:10:25.839 when I see a real flesh and blood worker of 0:10:25.960 --> 0:10:27.800 fighting is natural lending me the policeman. I don't have 0:10:27.840 --> 0:10:30.080 to ask myself what side I'm on, Like did you 0:10:30.080 --> 0:10:33.240 find the same thing with students where they were like okay, 0:10:33.720 --> 0:10:35.760 I wasn't out here. And now I've seen the way 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:37.720 the university and the cops have responded to this, and 0:10:37.760 --> 0:10:39.520 now I'm coming out because it's not okay. 0:10:40.800 --> 0:10:46.480 The encampment went up Wednesday and it was forcibly removed 0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:49.959 with arrests on Thursday, I think, or was it Friday. 0:10:50.360 --> 0:10:53.360 I don't remember. It was a long time ago. For me, 0:10:54.559 --> 0:11:00.959 it's fine, But prior to the encampment being taken down, 0:11:01.120 --> 0:11:06.079 the possibility of it provoked a significant response from the 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:09.560 student body here at Columbia to show up and rally 0:11:10.080 --> 0:11:15.319 around the encampment all night. They did this march, this 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:18.480 daisy chain where they were chanting. The more you try 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:22.360 to silence us the louder we will be and disclose, divest, 0:11:22.400 --> 0:11:24.800 We will not stop, We will not rest all night 0:11:25.280 --> 0:11:27.560 around the encampment to keep it safe and to show 0:11:27.600 --> 0:11:30.920 that they had larger support beyond the students who chose 0:11:30.960 --> 0:11:33.560 to stay on the lawn at risk of being arrested. 0:11:34.120 --> 0:11:38.000 After they were arrested, more students came onto the other 0:11:38.120 --> 0:11:42.800 lawn and have continued to occupy that second lawn. So 0:11:43.000 --> 0:11:45.360 absolutely it was a strissand effect. They tried to shut 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:48.680 it down, and it made people feel very strongly that 0:11:48.720 --> 0:11:51.280 they need to show up and put themselves on the 0:11:51.280 --> 0:11:55.240 line as well. And they also I think they saw 0:11:55.880 --> 0:11:59.000 what I think it also showed them what the state 0:11:59.480 --> 0:12:03.520 does and what the university does, and seeing it firsthand 0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:07.120 eliminates a lot of the mystery that, you know, the 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:10.720 fear that can circulate of like the uncertainty of it. 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:14.600 Seeing what it looks like, they're like, oh whatever. And 0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:18.360 now they're seeing, you know, videos of protesters being brutalized 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:22.400 on other campuses, and like I heard, someone told me 0:12:22.600 --> 0:12:25.360 last night. They said that they overheard someone like talking 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:28.480 to another student on the lawn and they were like, oh, 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:30.880 so you a jail support They're like, yes, you're there, 0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:34.800 Like it's it's this sort of they're gonna they're gonna 0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:39.000 do what they're gonna do. We don't care, like because 0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:43.559 these are the threat of violence. Physical harm, is a 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:46.320 threat to cease whatever it is that you're doing, of 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:49.000 academic harm. These are things that are trying to get 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:51.320 you to stop doing what you're doing. And when you 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:54.160 know that they are being deployed as tools and tactics, 0:12:54.360 --> 0:12:58.280 you're not going to stop because they're not scary to you. Well, 0:12:58.360 --> 0:13:00.520 what are you gonna do. You're gonna suspend me for 0:13:01.240 --> 0:13:04.960 joining in a historic protest? Okay, see if I care, 0:13:05.640 --> 0:13:07.840 you know, I think that's the energy for a lot 0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:08.640 of students. 0:13:09.040 --> 0:13:11.520 Yeah, unfortunately we need to go to ads for a second, 0:13:11.800 --> 0:13:14.640 but I don't know, skip them and we'll be back 0:13:15.000 --> 0:13:17.160 in however long it takes you to press the forward 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:32.760 button like six times and we are back. So, something 0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:35.920 I wanted to ask about. I've been seeing a lot 0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:39.960 of stuff floating around about the negotiations that are happening 0:13:40.000 --> 0:13:42.920 between the university and the students. I want to know 0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:47.240 what have you actually heard about these because the statements 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:49.480 that have been coming out don't seem to really be 0:13:49.559 --> 0:13:52.760 matching anything else I've seen going on on the ground. 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:54.920 Do you know what's happening. 0:13:56.240 --> 0:13:59.839 So the university has taken a stance of this is 0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:03.560 clearing present danger, It is disruptive, it is harmful, et cetera. 0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:08.960 That's because it's impeding with them building stairs and stadium 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:11.559 seating for the commencement that's happening in a couple of weeks. 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:18.560 So you know, it's like that's that's the clear and 0:14:18.600 --> 0:14:21.320 present danger is that it's costly for them to have 0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:26.680 to wait to complete this this setup. But my understanding 0:14:27.120 --> 0:14:29.920 is that the students are very much holding their ground, 0:14:30.040 --> 0:14:34.360 very firm, and their their demands are very reasonable. It's saying, like, 0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:37.760 tell us where your money comes from, so we can 0:14:37.800 --> 0:14:40.840 look into it and see that you're keeping your nose clean. 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:45.720 This isn't a difficult to ask. I think if you 0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:47.720 ask to see my receipts, I could hill to you. 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:50.520 Although I'm not an elite university, but I'm also not 0:14:50.640 --> 0:14:57.600 you know, profiting off of weapons manufacturing. And so the 0:14:58.040 --> 0:15:02.160 university's stance is very much trying to kind of spook 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:08.360 them into quitting. And there was a statement released by 0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:11.240 the president last night at four am, saying that the 0:15:11.280 --> 0:15:15.680 students made some concessions, two of which were things that 0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:19.000 they're already doing, one of which was an easy adjustment 0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:22.200 that's not a concession, which was just making the camp 0:15:22.400 --> 0:15:26.920 more ADA accessible and in compliance with FD and Y 0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:31.280 regulations for fire safety, which I think would be crazy 0:15:31.280 --> 0:15:36.520 if a fire broke out at this camp. Anyway, I 0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:40.520 was a tangent. And then there was a thing saying 0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:43.760 that they're going to be ending negotiations in forty eight 0:15:43.760 --> 0:15:47.760 hours and with the students reported out from those negotiations 0:15:47.760 --> 0:15:50.760 at the time was at the university at around midnight 0:15:50.840 --> 0:15:53.160 threatened to call in the National Guard and to call 0:15:53.200 --> 0:15:57.080 in the NYPD, and that shut down negotiations. And it 0:15:57.120 --> 0:16:00.840 was only after they put out these wide spread calls 0:16:01.000 --> 0:16:04.360 and thousands of people gathered on the lawn in support 0:16:04.440 --> 0:16:09.359 of the encampment that that was changed and the university 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:13.120 agreed in writing to not call the YPD and to 0:16:13.240 --> 0:16:15.960 not mobilized National Guard, which I don't think they have 0:16:16.000 --> 0:16:19.720 the authority to do regardless, but it was this written 0:16:19.760 --> 0:16:25.400 concession from the university, and their perspective of it was 0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:29.400 that the students provided concessions, and I think it's kind 0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:33.400 of it speaks to who each side is speaking to. 0:16:33.520 --> 0:16:36.360 The students are speaking to the movement that they have 0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:42.000 kind of shepherded into existence, and the university is speaking 0:16:42.120 --> 0:16:46.720 to their donors and their trustees and the right wingers 0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:50.920 who are having nuclear meltdowns on Twitter. 0:16:51.880 --> 0:16:53.720 That's something else I wanted to sort of ask about, 0:16:53.760 --> 0:16:56.440 because I it's kind of hard for me to a 0:16:56.560 --> 0:17:01.400 sense of it. Like, Okay, so house Bike Johnson, who 0:17:01.520 --> 0:17:05.720 is a utterly deranged session Zionist. 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:10.320 Yeah, like you mean the new Churchill mea god like 0:17:10.720 --> 0:17:16.240 real weirdo, like anti evolution guy he's been he said, 0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:17.720 he said that like he's going to go to. 0:17:17.680 --> 0:17:20.400 Congress and call for the National Guard deplay, which also 0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:22.920 does it make any sense because Congress I don't can't 0:17:22.920 --> 0:17:25.560 do it either, But I think you're trying to get 0:17:25.560 --> 0:17:27.320 like the governor, But like, what what do you think 0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:29.480 of the actual odds of a national guard to point? 0:17:29.520 --> 0:17:31.080 Because I've heard a lot of talk about it and 0:17:31.240 --> 0:17:33.200 I can't gauge it at all. 0:17:34.119 --> 0:17:37.359 So Hochel has said that that's not on the table, 0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:41.720 I believe, and there's no interest from what I can 0:17:41.760 --> 0:17:47.639 tell of the actual elected reps in calling in the 0:17:47.720 --> 0:17:50.560 National Guard. There is interest from Eric Adams, who is 0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:53.679 a former cop and basically still a cop, to use 0:17:53.720 --> 0:17:57.080 the NYPD, and the NYPD has been very allergic to 0:17:57.320 --> 0:18:00.520 when the National Guard comes out here because they want 0:18:00.520 --> 0:18:03.399 to be the ones cracking skulls and being in charge 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:07.440 of brutalizing New Yorkers, and they take a great offense 0:18:07.520 --> 0:18:09.920 when someone else comes in and does it for them, 0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:12.320 So they wouldn't really be on board with the National 0:18:12.359 --> 0:18:15.400 Guard mobilizing here either. The school doesn't have the authority 0:18:15.400 --> 0:18:17.359 to do that. It's only the governor. The governor hasn't 0:18:17.400 --> 0:18:21.680 made any indication, and Mike Johnson is doing conservative stunt work. 0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:26.760 He was joined by Elise Staphonik, who is a conservative 0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:31.960 and you know she regularly disseminates disinformation and inflammatory propaganda 0:18:32.359 --> 0:18:36.600 to demonize unhoused people, migrants, queer people. So it's no 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:40.879 surprise that they're you know, banging this drum, which was 0:18:40.960 --> 0:18:44.720 also pushed by Shy davidy or however he pronounce his name, 0:18:45.080 --> 0:18:48.600 who's an assistant professor here, who attempted to hold a 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:52.480 rally in the center of the Cause of Solidarity encampment 0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:56.639 with a slew of Zionists and his ID card was 0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:00.560 deactivated and he found out in real time time in 0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:03.560 front of a bunch of cameras that he called to 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:09.040 come watch him. It was It's one of those things 0:19:09.080 --> 0:19:10.720 that you witness in real time that you feel like 0:19:11.720 --> 0:19:14.160 you're you're living in a movie. But it was great. 0:19:14.800 --> 0:19:17.800 And he had a nuclear tantrum and claimed that it 0:19:17.840 --> 0:19:20.399 was because he wasn't safe on campus when he was 0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:24.280 told that his protest was not safe for their students. So, 0:19:24.640 --> 0:19:26.720 you know, I think it's we're seeing a lot of 0:19:26.800 --> 0:19:29.840 rhetoric and a lot of saber rattling from the far right, 0:19:29.960 --> 0:19:34.720 from conservatives, from people who have never had any kind 0:19:34.720 --> 0:19:40.240 of support for Palestinians or for the cause of Palestinian liberation. 0:19:40.760 --> 0:19:43.560 You know, Mike Johnson makes he receives over a quarter 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:46.960 million dollars from APAC. You know, these are these are 0:19:47.000 --> 0:19:50.679 not people whose statements should be taken seriously in the 0:19:50.720 --> 0:19:54.359 context of what is possible, what is reasonable, and what 0:19:54.920 --> 0:20:01.480 is you know, reality to put it nicely, yeah. 0:20:01.359 --> 0:20:04.760 Yeah, I think a reason it's fascinating, like, at least 0:20:04.760 --> 0:20:07.560 to me, Like I went to a fancy university, you know, 0:20:07.640 --> 0:20:11.240 and engaged in plenty of including pro Palestine actions when 0:20:11.240 --> 0:20:14.159 I was there. But a thing that I see, like 0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:16.880 as a journalist now, is that the right wing and 0:20:16.920 --> 0:20:19.720 wealthy folks generally seem to see that Ivy League universities, 0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:22.560 particularly in the US, is like their safe space. And 0:20:22.640 --> 0:20:24.919 I think the reason that they're so mad at this 0:20:25.160 --> 0:20:27.760 is that they feel like it's not just that it's happening, 0:20:27.880 --> 0:20:31.240 it's it's where it's happening, and like that that's called 0:20:31.280 --> 0:20:34.040 them to have these massive tantrums like you've reported on. 0:20:35.000 --> 0:20:39.240 Yeah, I mean, there's the there's there's it's it's all 0:20:39.320 --> 0:20:41.440 hypocrisy for them because on the one hand, these are 0:20:41.480 --> 0:20:44.920 liberal universities who are ushering in an era of DEI 0:20:45.000 --> 0:20:47.359 and purple hair and queer kids. And then on the 0:20:47.359 --> 0:20:50.280 other side, these are sacred spaces of learning and higher 0:20:50.359 --> 0:20:53.080 education that no one should have access to unless they're 0:20:53.320 --> 0:20:56.080 you know, grandparents are in the Arian Brotherhood. So it's 0:20:56.240 --> 0:20:59.479 it's one of those things where it kind of depends 0:20:59.520 --> 0:21:03.720 on the day about how they feel about really elite 0:21:03.760 --> 0:21:07.360 campuses of higher learning. But it doesn't matter either way. 0:21:07.359 --> 0:21:11.080 They don't care. They don't actually care. They just hate 0:21:11.640 --> 0:21:15.840 the cause and will do anything they can to bring 0:21:15.840 --> 0:21:19.600 it to a halt. But the DNA of this cause 0:21:19.680 --> 0:21:23.000 is to keep going regardless of the efforts to stop it. 0:21:24.359 --> 0:21:27.080 Right, And it wasn't so long ago that everyone was 0:21:27.160 --> 0:21:29.080 up in arms. When I say everyone on the right 0:21:29.119 --> 0:21:31.040 was up and arms about campus free speech, which is 0:21:31.080 --> 0:21:34.200 something that seems have likely been forgotten in the last 0:21:34.280 --> 0:21:37.119 couple of weeks. It's like, we've all seen videos in 0:21:37.160 --> 0:21:40.760 Texas today, right of the DPS and state troopers and 0:21:41.000 --> 0:21:44.840 horses and bikes. So they lived to missuse bikes. But yeah, 0:21:45.119 --> 0:21:48.240 it's I guess the hipocoty is kind of the point 0:21:48.359 --> 0:21:49.119 with those people. 0:21:50.560 --> 0:21:53.439 Yeah, I mean, like Mike Johnson made his speech today 0:21:53.440 --> 0:21:56.639 on the steps of the Low Library. He was talking 0:21:56.640 --> 0:21:58.760 about how you know there was a repression of free 0:21:58.760 --> 0:22:01.879 speech on campus, but then in the same breath he 0:22:01.960 --> 0:22:03.520 said that and that's why I want to call in 0:22:03.600 --> 0:22:07.240 the National Guard to eliminate this protest. Their argument is 0:22:07.240 --> 0:22:11.119 that this protest is inherently anti Semitic because it rejects 0:22:11.160 --> 0:22:14.119 the state of Israel and the genocide and apartheid that 0:22:14.160 --> 0:22:17.320 the state has been doing since its inception and prior 0:22:17.359 --> 0:22:23.240 to its inception of the Palestinian people, and in the IHRA. 0:22:23.640 --> 0:22:29.160 In the IHRA definition of anti semitism, it is any 0:22:29.200 --> 0:22:32.359 criticism of the state of Israel, which would include people 0:22:32.359 --> 0:22:37.320 who are living in Israel criticizing their own government would 0:22:37.359 --> 0:22:41.000 be labeled as anti Semitic. And they're trying to redefine 0:22:41.720 --> 0:22:45.600 reality in real time by claiming that these students who 0:22:45.840 --> 0:22:49.040 just don't want for mass death to be occurring and 0:22:49.119 --> 0:22:53.200 they don't want their university to be responsible in facilitating that, 0:22:54.040 --> 0:22:58.120 are somehow anti Semitic. Meanwhile, a large number of them 0:22:58.200 --> 0:23:03.280 are Jews themselves, who you know they held satter at 0:23:03.280 --> 0:23:04.120 the start of Passover. 0:23:05.480 --> 0:23:08.440 Yeah, I think, uh maybe do you know bing One, 0:23:08.720 --> 0:23:12.359 a photojournalist, Yeah, withtual friend being being took this photo, 0:23:12.359 --> 0:23:14.119 which went viral on Twitter. I stories in the New 0:23:14.160 --> 0:23:16.919 York Times of a Jewish graduate student just like sitting 0:23:16.920 --> 0:23:18.919 on a folding chair being like, now I'm fine, I 0:23:18.920 --> 0:23:20.040 don't feel unsafe here. 0:23:20.600 --> 0:23:24.199 Oh yeah, I mean that's like, That's the thing is 0:23:24.200 --> 0:23:26.639 that the people who feel quote unquote unsafe are also 0:23:26.920 --> 0:23:31.840 the people who are known antagonizers of pro Palestine demonstrations. 0:23:32.040 --> 0:23:35.520 These are the kids that bought like fart spray from 0:23:35.600 --> 0:23:40.960 Amazon to spray on students who were demonstrating peacefully. These 0:23:40.960 --> 0:23:44.240 are students who show up with giant flags outside of 0:23:44.240 --> 0:23:49.440 Columbia University to antagonize people. They brought thick wooden poles 0:23:49.920 --> 0:23:53.440 with flags fixed to them to a demonstration on Wall 0:23:53.440 --> 0:23:57.639 Street the week prior to this encampment launching, and they 0:23:57.640 --> 0:24:00.080 were antagonizing people, They were getting in, they were trying to, 0:24:00.240 --> 0:24:03.760 you know, instigate arguments with people, and you know, they 0:24:03.760 --> 0:24:06.040 were just kind of trying to incite, and then they 0:24:06.040 --> 0:24:09.600 claim to be victims when people respond to their inciting behavior, 0:24:10.000 --> 0:24:14.680 and it's very much like an abusive mentality that they have. 0:24:15.359 --> 0:24:18.400 But in terms of like actual anti Semitism, all of that, 0:24:18.960 --> 0:24:21.800 all of that rhetoric ends up being a distraction from 0:24:21.880 --> 0:24:25.560 actual instances of anti Semitism. And the more that you 0:24:25.720 --> 0:24:30.520 try to fuse the political ideology of Zionism with the 0:24:30.720 --> 0:24:34.040