1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 1: Also media. 2 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:07,920 Speaker 2: Welcome to Dick It Happen Here, a podcast coming to 3 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:10,640 Speaker 2: you from a week where decades are happening. I'm your 4 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 2: host Nia. Long with me is James Stout Hi May 5 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 2: great to be here and also with us as Talia Jane, 6 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 2: an independent journalist covering social movements and protests who is 7 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 2: currently covering the Gaza solidarity encampments at Columbia University. Talia, 8 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 2: Welcome to the show. 9 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:28,440 Speaker 1: Thanks for having me, guys. 10 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 3: Hey, thanks for doing you guys. 11 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 1: Hell yeah, yeah. 12 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:35,839 Speaker 2: So I'm excited. I'm excited to talk about the Columbia occupation. 13 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 2: I also want to briefly mention that there are a 14 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:42,520 Speaker 2: lot of there's been a wave of occupations of campuses 15 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 2: across the country just right now. This is being recorded 16 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:49,599 Speaker 2: on Wednesday night. By the time this goes up on 17 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:52,199 Speaker 2: like Friday, a lot of the stuff we're going to 18 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:53,599 Speaker 2: be saying is probably going to be at a date 19 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 2: because everything's moving really quickly. But I mean there's occupations 20 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 2: obviously like Columbia. There's like CSU, Humboldt, University of Texas, 21 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 2: at Austin, Ohio, State Harvard, Yale, Berkeley, some University in Italy, 22 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 2: Emerson Tuffs, MIT, NYU, City, University of New York, the 23 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 2: New Schools, University of Rochester, University of Pittsburgh USC, University 24 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:16,479 Speaker 2: of Minnesota, University of Michigan, Vanderbilt UNC, Chapel Hill. I mean, 25 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 2: there's so many of these. By the time that this 26 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:21,840 Speaker 2: goes up, there will be more of them. Yeah, it's 27 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:26,400 Speaker 2: been wild. There's been a lot of I mean at 28 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 2: Humboldt there was a lot of very intense fighting with 29 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:31,959 Speaker 2: the police. A bunch of kids occupied a building. They 30 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 2: beat the shit while Okay, that's going a bit too far, 31 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 2: but they barricaded it, kept the cops from coming in, 32 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 2: cops ran off of campus. So, lots of incredibly wild 33 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 2: stuff happening. Yeah, which I guess brings us to the 34 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 2: Gauza the I guess the original one, the first one 35 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 2: they got a lot of media attention, the Gauza Solidarity 36 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 2: Acampment at Columbia. 37 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 1: Yeah. 38 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 2: So, Telly, I wanted to ask you, so, how did 39 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 2: this sort of start and what's kind of been making 40 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 2: it different from the really pretty large number of other 41 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 2: Free Palestine anti genocide protests that have been on campuses 42 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 2: and off campuses for the past, Like time at six 43 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 2: seven months. 44 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:17,079 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I think the genesis of this was that 45 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 1: Columbia University, as we've seen in universities across the country, 46 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 1: suspended a number of pro Palestine advocacy student groups. They 47 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:32,239 Speaker 1: were very slow to move their feet about targeted attacks 48 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:36,800 Speaker 1: against students who were demonstrating for Palestine, including an incident 49 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:40,079 Speaker 1: where someone was allegedly sprayed with a chemical irritant, or 50 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:45,080 Speaker 1: people were sprayed with a chemical irritant by former IOF 51 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 1: soldiers who are also students here. And just this, you know, 52 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:55,959 Speaker 1: building tension of there is a actual genocide occurring, and 53 00:02:56,919 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 1: universities are being forced to bend towards the people committing 54 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 1: the genocide instead of standing on the right side of history, 55 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:09,919 Speaker 1: or they're actively choosing to do that too, because their 56 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:13,800 Speaker 1: whole thing is not about actually educating people and preparing 57 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 1: them to be tomorrow's leaders and managers or baristas, but 58 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 1: to get people, you know, to give them money to 59 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 1: fill their coffers and portray this image of you know, 60 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 1: exceptionalism and elitism and whatnot. So that was the genesis. 61 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 1: And then on Tuesday night I got a text at 62 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 1: like eleven pm, I want to say, asking me if 63 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 1: I wanted to come cover a late night slash early 64 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 1: morning de occupation demo. And this was from someone I'd 65 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 1: never talked to before. I had no idea who it was, 66 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 1: but they said it was a Columbia and they said 67 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 1: it was late night, early morning. I thought I'd be 68 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 1: out of here at you know, ten am the next day, 69 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 1: and then, you know, standing there witnessing it all unfold, 70 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 1: it became pretty evident that that was not the case. 71 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 1: And I think the reason why this stands out is 72 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:17,920 Speaker 1: because this is an elite university where you can't say, oh, well, 73 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:21,360 Speaker 1: these are just dumb TikTok kids. These are kids who 74 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:24,360 Speaker 1: have like the these are like adults who have you know, 75 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 1: they have incredible resumes, really high academic excellence. They got 76 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 1: into an extremely difficult school to get into, and they 77 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:39,840 Speaker 1: are joining the ranks of the you know, frazzled fringe, 78 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:46,360 Speaker 1: stinky anarchists and the silly kids who are being brainwashed 79 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 1: by TikTok. And they said, like, no, those people are right, 80 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 1: like this is bad and you need to disclose and 81 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 1: divest and we're not going to stop until you do. 82 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 1: And I think that that stance from a position of 83 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 1: fledge really shook things up. What followed also set a 84 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 1: tone of the university deciding to call the police and 85 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 1: claiming that this encampment was it posed a clear and 86 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 1: present danger to the safety of students on campus, which 87 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 1: you know, anyone who has spent any length of time 88 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 1: in or around the encampment can plainly see that that 89 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 1: is nonsensical. It's absurd. These are kids that are studying 90 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 1: on a lawn. But that choice of bringing the NYPD 91 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 1: in and having one hundred and eight students arrested by 92 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 1: the NYPD Strategic Response Group, which is their you know, 93 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 1: counter terrorism goon squad that violently represses protests pretty consistently, 94 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 1: to have them arrest one hundred nate people, including carrying 95 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:52,239 Speaker 1: them out from by their arms and lengths and arresting 96 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 1: legal observers. You know that that was like this is 97 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 1: that it was an outsized response for something that was straightforward. 98 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 1: They're hanging out on a lawn. They have everything set 99 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:07,599 Speaker 1: up to sustain within that space. They are not going 100 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:10,720 Speaker 1: out and roaming around and you know, breaking things or 101 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:14,559 Speaker 1: assaulting people or anything like that, and they're just using 102 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 1: this to call attention to their cause, which is divestment 103 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 1: from genocide and from you know, war profiteering and to 104 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:29,279 Speaker 1: and the school's gentrification of Harlem and to you know, 105 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 1: a institute an academic boycott of Israel and Israeli campuses 106 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 1: that are in community with Colombia, like their satellite schools, 107 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 1: that bring the IOF soldiers to Colombia to commit harm 108 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:46,720 Speaker 1: against students here. And you know, so these are these 109 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 1: are very basic asks and they were met with state force, 110 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 1: signed off by the president of the school. And seeing that, 111 00:06:56,520 --> 00:06:59,720 Speaker 1: I think is what provoked a lot of other schools 112 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 1: of like Columbia's doing it. Then we definitely got to 113 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:08,160 Speaker 1: because you have a major elite institution taking this step 114 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 1: making clear that this is not just a cause that 115 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: you know, the scrappy little weirdos at the bottom like 116 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:19,240 Speaker 1: me care about, you know. And so I think that's 117 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 1: what set it off. And the fact that they returned 118 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 1: they just took over the other lawn while while their 119 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 1: classmates were being processed after being arrested, they just took 120 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 1: over the other one and they're like, all right, we're 121 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 1: gonna set it up here was such a hilariously like 122 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 1: based move that it was like the defiance and the 123 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 1: determination was undeniable. And when you see a group like 124 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 1: with the students at Humboldt, where the cops with the 125 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 1: riot shields are trying to barge in and they're pushing 126 00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 1: them back and they're screaming get the fuck out, and 127 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 1: they're bonking them over the head with the empty water jug. 128 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 1: When you see things like that, yeah, when you see 129 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 1: things like that, it's very like there is an energy 130 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 1: to this that has always been there but that has 131 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 1: not been very easily seen by the masses, and we're 132 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: now seeing it show its head of like, no, we're 133 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 1: not fucking around, like you need to listen to us. 134 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 1: We're tired of the song and dance game that you're 135 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:32,080 Speaker 1: doing dismissing all of our valid concerns because we know 136 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:36,320 Speaker 1: concretely and statistically that we are on the right side 137 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:39,319 Speaker 1: of history, and we're going to make you listen and 138 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:43,079 Speaker 1: trust that if you beat us up, we're coming back. 139 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: Like we're not going away. It doesn't scare us, which 140 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 1: is what the kids at a UT Austin were chanting. 141 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:52,560 Speaker 1: I think when they brought the horses and the state 142 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,560 Speaker 1: troopers in. It's like, we're not scared of you. And 143 00:08:55,600 --> 00:09:00,079 Speaker 1: that tone has permeated throughout the demonstration's four Palace to 144 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 1: New Liberation since in prior to October. But if you 145 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 1: don't follow the protests, or if you only go by 146 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:11,200 Speaker 1: what the major news outlets are saying about them, you 147 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:14,319 Speaker 1: don't see that tone. So this, for me, is not surprising. 148 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 1: This is a continuation of an energy that has not 149 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 1: ceased for upwards of six months. I think it's the 150 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:28,079 Speaker 1: two hundred and first day of the genocide. So it's 151 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 1: not surprising for people who've paid attention. It's a relief 152 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 1: for kids who are here and who have been involved, 153 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 1: and who have been silenced and ignored and written off 154 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 1: this whole time. It's a very long answer. 155 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 3: I know that's a good one, though. I think it's 156 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:46,080 Speaker 3: a It's great to have your perspective if someone who's 157 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:49,959 Speaker 3: been on the ground. One thing I wanted to ask is, like, obviously, 158 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 3: this is a protest that its core is about state violence, 159 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:56,840 Speaker 3: and it has predictably enough, been responded to with state violence, 160 00:09:57,400 --> 00:10:01,679 Speaker 3: And like you said that, people were really not swayed 161 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 3: by that. I wonder if you've seen people who kind 162 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 3: of had the opposite reaction, Like I kind of remember 163 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 3: the student protests that I have been involved in. I'm 164 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 3: just going to say that, and I can remember, like 165 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 3: the reaction by students when seeing that fellow students being 166 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 3: assaulted by the police was like, okay, fuck this, Like 167 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 3: you know, like Georgio Wah has this thing about like 168 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:25,839 Speaker 3: when I see a real flesh and blood worker of 169 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 3: fighting is natural lending me the policeman. I don't have 170 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:30,080 Speaker 3: to ask myself what side I'm on, Like did you 171 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 3: find the same thing with students where they were like okay, 172 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 3: I wasn't out here. And now I've seen the way 173 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:37,720 Speaker 3: the university and the cops have responded to this, and 174 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 3: now I'm coming out because it's not okay. 175 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 1: The encampment went up Wednesday and it was forcibly removed 176 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:49,959 Speaker 1: with arrests on Thursday, I think, or was it Friday. 177 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 1: I don't remember. It was a long time ago. For me, 178 00:10:54,559 --> 00:11:00,959 Speaker 1: it's fine, But prior to the encampment being taken down, 179 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:06,079 Speaker 1: the possibility of it provoked a significant response from the 180 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:09,560 Speaker 1: student body here at Columbia to show up and rally 181 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:15,319 Speaker 1: around the encampment all night. They did this march, this 182 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 1: daisy chain where they were chanting. The more you try 183 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 1: to silence us the louder we will be and disclose, divest, 184 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 1: We will not stop, We will not rest all night 185 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:27,560 Speaker 1: around the encampment to keep it safe and to show 186 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 1: that they had larger support beyond the students who chose 187 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:33,560 Speaker 1: to stay on the lawn at risk of being arrested. 188 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 1: After they were arrested, more students came onto the other 189 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 1: lawn and have continued to occupy that second lawn. So 190 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 1: absolutely it was a strissand effect. They tried to shut 191 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:48,680 Speaker 1: it down, and it made people feel very strongly that 192 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 1: they need to show up and put themselves on the 193 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 1: line as well. And they also I think they saw 194 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 1: what I think it also showed them what the state 195 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 1: does and what the university does, and seeing it firsthand 196 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 1: eliminates a lot of the mystery that, you know, the 197 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 1: fear that can circulate of like the uncertainty of it. 198 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 1: Seeing what it looks like, they're like, oh whatever. And 199 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 1: now they're seeing, you know, videos of protesters being brutalized 200 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 1: on other campuses, and like I heard, someone told me 201 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 1: last night. They said that they overheard someone like talking 202 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 1: to another student on the lawn and they were like, oh, 203 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: so you a jail support They're like, yes, you're there, 204 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 1: Like it's it's this sort of they're gonna they're gonna 205 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 1: do what they're gonna do. We don't care, like because 206 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:43,559 Speaker 1: these are the threat of violence. Physical harm, is a 207 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:46,320 Speaker 1: threat to cease whatever it is that you're doing, of 208 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 1: academic harm. These are things that are trying to get 209 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:51,320 Speaker 1: you to stop doing what you're doing. And when you 210 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 1: know that they are being deployed as tools and tactics, 211 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 1: you're not going to stop because they're not scary to you. Well, 212 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 1: what are you gonna do. You're gonna suspend me for 213 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:04,960 Speaker 1: joining in a historic protest? Okay, see if I care, 214 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 1: you know, I think that's the energy for a lot 215 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 1: of students. 216 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, unfortunately we need to go to ads for a second, 217 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 2: but I don't know, skip them and we'll be back 218 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 2: in however long it takes you to press the forward 219 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 2: button like six times and we are back. So, something 220 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 2: I wanted to ask about. I've been seeing a lot 221 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:39,960 Speaker 2: of stuff floating around about the negotiations that are happening 222 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 2: between the university and the students. I want to know 223 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 2: what have you actually heard about these because the statements 224 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 2: that have been coming out don't seem to really be 225 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 2: matching anything else I've seen going on on the ground. 226 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 2: Do you know what's happening. 227 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:59,839 Speaker 1: So the university has taken a stance of this is 228 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:03,560 Speaker 1: clearing present danger, It is disruptive, it is harmful, et cetera. 229 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:08,960 Speaker 1: That's because it's impeding with them building stairs and stadium 230 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:11,559 Speaker 1: seating for the commencement that's happening in a couple of weeks. 231 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:18,560 Speaker 1: So you know, it's like that's that's the clear and 232 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 1: present danger is that it's costly for them to have 233 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 1: to wait to complete this this setup. But my understanding 234 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 1: is that the students are very much holding their ground, 235 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:34,360 Speaker 1: very firm, and their their demands are very reasonable. It's saying, like, 236 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 1: tell us where your money comes from, so we can 237 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 1: look into it and see that you're keeping your nose clean. 238 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 1: This isn't a difficult to ask. I think if you 239 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 1: ask to see my receipts, I could hill to you. 240 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 1: Although I'm not an elite university, but I'm also not 241 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:57,600 Speaker 1: you know, profiting off of weapons manufacturing. And so the 242 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 1: university's stance is very much trying to kind of spook 243 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 1: them into quitting. And there was a statement released by 244 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 1: the president last night at four am, saying that the 245 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 1: students made some concessions, two of which were things that 246 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 1: they're already doing, one of which was an easy adjustment 247 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 1: that's not a concession, which was just making the camp 248 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 1: more ADA accessible and in compliance with FD and Y 249 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 1: regulations for fire safety, which I think would be crazy 250 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 1: if a fire broke out at this camp. Anyway, I 251 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 1: was a tangent. And then there was a thing saying 252 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 1: that they're going to be ending negotiations in forty eight 253 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 1: hours and with the students reported out from those negotiations 254 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 1: at the time was at the university at around midnight 255 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 1: threatened to call in the National Guard and to call 256 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 1: in the NYPD, and that shut down negotiations. And it 257 00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 1: was only after they put out these wide spread calls 258 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 1: and thousands of people gathered on the lawn in support 259 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:09,359 Speaker 1: of the encampment that that was changed and the university 260 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 1: agreed in writing to not call the YPD and to 261 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 1: not mobilized National Guard, which I don't think they have 262 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 1: the authority to do regardless, but it was this written 263 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 1: concession from the university, and their perspective of it was 264 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: that the students provided concessions, and I think it's kind 265 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 1: of it speaks to who each side is speaking to. 266 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 1: The students are speaking to the movement that they have 267 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 1: kind of shepherded into existence, and the university is speaking 268 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 1: to their donors and their trustees and the right wingers 269 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 1: who are having nuclear meltdowns on Twitter. 270 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 2: That's something else I wanted to sort of ask about, 271 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 2: because I it's kind of hard for me to a 272 00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 2: sense of it. Like, Okay, so house Bike Johnson, who 273 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 2: is a utterly deranged session Zionist. 274 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, like you mean the new Churchill mea god like 275 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:16,240 Speaker 4: real weirdo, like anti evolution guy he's been he said, 276 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 4: he said that like he's going to go to. 277 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:20,400 Speaker 2: Congress and call for the National Guard deplay, which also 278 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:22,920 Speaker 2: does it make any sense because Congress I don't can't 279 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 2: do it either, But I think you're trying to get 280 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:27,320 Speaker 2: like the governor, But like, what what do you think 281 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:29,480 Speaker 2: of the actual odds of a national guard to point? 282 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 2: Because I've heard a lot of talk about it and 283 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:33,200 Speaker 2: I can't gauge it at all. 284 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:37,359 Speaker 1: So Hochel has said that that's not on the table, 285 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:41,720 Speaker 1: I believe, and there's no interest from what I can 286 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:47,639 Speaker 1: tell of the actual elected reps in calling in the 287 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:50,560 Speaker 1: National Guard. There is interest from Eric Adams, who is 288 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:53,679 Speaker 1: a former cop and basically still a cop, to use 289 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 1: the NYPD, and the NYPD has been very allergic to 290 00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 1: when the National Guard comes out here because they want 291 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:03,399 Speaker 1: to be the ones cracking skulls and being in charge 292 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:07,440 Speaker 1: of brutalizing New Yorkers, and they take a great offense 293 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:09,920 Speaker 1: when someone else comes in and does it for them, 294 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 1: So they wouldn't really be on board with the National 295 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:15,400 Speaker 1: Guard mobilizing here either. The school doesn't have the authority 296 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:17,359 Speaker 1: to do that. It's only the governor. The governor hasn't 297 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:21,680 Speaker 1: made any indication, and Mike Johnson is doing conservative stunt work. 298 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 1: He was joined by Elise Staphonik, who is a conservative 299 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:31,960 Speaker 1: and you know she regularly disseminates disinformation and inflammatory propaganda 300 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 1: to demonize unhoused people, migrants, queer people. So it's no 301 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:40,879 Speaker 1: surprise that they're you know, banging this drum, which was 302 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 1: also pushed by Shy davidy or however he pronounce his name, 303 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:48,600 Speaker 1: who's an assistant professor here, who attempted to hold a 304 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 1: rally in the center of the Cause of Solidarity encampment 305 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:56,639 Speaker 1: with a slew of Zionists and his ID card was 306 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 1: deactivated and he found out in real time time in 307 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 1: front of a bunch of cameras that he called to 308 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 1: come watch him. It was It's one of those things 309 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:10,720 Speaker 1: that you witness in real time that you feel like 310 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:14,160 Speaker 1: you're you're living in a movie. But it was great. 311 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 1: And he had a nuclear tantrum and claimed that it 312 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:20,399 Speaker 1: was because he wasn't safe on campus when he was 313 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 1: told that his protest was not safe for their students. So, 314 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:26,720 Speaker 1: you know, I think it's we're seeing a lot of 315 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 1: rhetoric and a lot of saber rattling from the far right, 316 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 1: from conservatives, from people who have never had any kind 317 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 1: of support for Palestinians or for the cause of Palestinian liberation. 318 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 1: You know, Mike Johnson makes he receives over a quarter 319 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 1: million dollars from APAC. You know, these are these are 320 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:50,679 Speaker 1: not people whose statements should be taken seriously in the 321 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:54,359 Speaker 1: context of what is possible, what is reasonable, and what 322 00:19:54,920 --> 00:20:01,480 Speaker 1: is you know, reality to put it nicely, yeah. 323 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think a reason it's fascinating, like, at least 324 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 3: to me, Like I went to a fancy university, you know, 325 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 3: and engaged in plenty of including pro Palestine actions when 326 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:14,159 Speaker 3: I was there. But a thing that I see, like 327 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:16,880 Speaker 3: as a journalist now, is that the right wing and 328 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:19,720 Speaker 3: wealthy folks generally seem to see that Ivy League universities, 329 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 3: particularly in the US, is like their safe space. And 330 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:24,919 Speaker 3: I think the reason that they're so mad at this 331 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 3: is that they feel like it's not just that it's happening, 332 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:31,240 Speaker 3: it's it's where it's happening, and like that that's called 333 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:34,040 Speaker 3: them to have these massive tantrums like you've reported on. 334 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, there's the there's there's it's it's all 335 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:41,440 Speaker 1: hypocrisy for them because on the one hand, these are 336 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:44,920 Speaker 1: liberal universities who are ushering in an era of DEI 337 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,359 Speaker 1: and purple hair and queer kids. And then on the 338 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:50,280 Speaker 1: other side, these are sacred spaces of learning and higher 339 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 1: education that no one should have access to unless they're 340 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:56,080 Speaker 1: you know, grandparents are in the Arian Brotherhood. So it's 341 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:59,479 Speaker 1: it's one of those things where it kind of depends 342 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:03,720 Speaker 1: on the day about how they feel about really elite 343 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:07,360 Speaker 1: campuses of higher learning. But it doesn't matter either way. 344 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 1: They don't care. They don't actually care. They just hate 345 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 1: the cause and will do anything they can to bring 346 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 1: it to a halt. But the DNA of this cause 347 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 1: is to keep going regardless of the efforts to stop it. 348 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 3: Right, And it wasn't so long ago that everyone was 349 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 3: up in arms. When I say everyone on the right 350 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 3: was up and arms about campus free speech, which is 351 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:34,200 Speaker 3: something that seems have likely been forgotten in the last 352 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:37,119 Speaker 3: couple of weeks. It's like, we've all seen videos in 353 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:40,760 Speaker 3: Texas today, right of the DPS and state troopers and 354 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 3: horses and bikes. So they lived to missuse bikes. But yeah, 355 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 3: it's I guess the hipocoty is kind of the point 356 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:49,119 Speaker 3: with those people. 357 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:53,439 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, like Mike Johnson made his speech today 358 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:56,639 Speaker 1: on the steps of the Low Library. He was talking 359 00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 1: about how you know there was a repression of free 360 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:01,879 Speaker 1: speech on campus, but then in the same breath he 361 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 1: said that and that's why I want to call in 362 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:07,240 Speaker 1: the National Guard to eliminate this protest. Their argument is 363 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:11,119 Speaker 1: that this protest is inherently anti Semitic because it rejects 364 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:14,119 Speaker 1: the state of Israel and the genocide and apartheid that 365 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 1: the state has been doing since its inception and prior 366 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:23,240 Speaker 1: to its inception of the Palestinian people, and in the IHRA. 367 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:29,160 Speaker 1: In the IHRA definition of anti semitism, it is any 368 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:32,359 Speaker 1: criticism of the state of Israel, which would include people 369 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:37,320 Speaker 1: who are living in Israel criticizing their own government would 370 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 1: be labeled as anti Semitic. And they're trying to redefine 371 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 1: reality in real time by claiming that these students who 372 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 1: just don't want for mass death to be occurring and 373 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:53,200 Speaker 1: they don't want their university to be responsible in facilitating that, 374 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:58,120 Speaker 1: are somehow anti Semitic. Meanwhile, a large number of them 375 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:03,280 Speaker 1: are Jews themselves, who you know they held satter at 376 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:04,120 Speaker 1: the start of Passover. 377 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think, uh maybe do you know bing One, 378 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:12,359 Speaker 3: a photojournalist, Yeah, withtual friend being being took this photo, 379 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:14,119 Speaker 3: which went viral on Twitter. I stories in the New 380 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:16,919 Speaker 3: York Times of a Jewish graduate student just like sitting 381 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:18,919 Speaker 3: on a folding chair being like, now I'm fine, I 382 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 3: don't feel unsafe here. 383 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:24,199 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean that's like, That's the thing is 384 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:26,639 Speaker 1: that the people who feel quote unquote unsafe are also 385 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 1: the people who are known antagonizers of pro Palestine demonstrations. 386 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 1: These are the kids that bought like fart spray from 387 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 1: Amazon to spray on students who were demonstrating peacefully. These 388 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:44,240 Speaker 1: are students who show up with giant flags outside of 389 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:49,440 Speaker 1: Columbia University to antagonize people. They brought thick wooden poles 390 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:53,440 Speaker 1: with flags fixed to them to a demonstration on Wall 391 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:57,639 Speaker 1: Street the week prior to this encampment launching, and they 392 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,080 Speaker 1: were antagonizing people, They were getting in, they were trying to, 393 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 1: you know, instigate arguments with people, and you know, they 394 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 1: were just kind of trying to incite, and then they 395 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 1: claim to be victims when people respond to their inciting behavior, 396 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:14,680 Speaker 1: and it's very much like an abusive mentality that they have. 397 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:18,400 Speaker 1: But in terms of like actual anti Semitism, all of that, 398 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 1: all of that rhetoric ends up being a distraction from 399 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 1: actual instances of anti Semitism. And the more that you 400 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:30,520 Speaker 1: try to fuse the political ideology of Zionism with the 401 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:34,040 Speaker 1: prejudice against Jewish people for being Jewish, the more you 402 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,480 Speaker 1: try to fuse those together as one thing, like you know, 403 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 1: fusing Jewish identity to Zionism, the more you see instances 404 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:45,920 Speaker 1: of anti Semitism actually antisemitism. So, if anything, like the 405 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:52,320 Speaker 1: students who are coming in cheering on Israel and boasting 406 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 1: about the murderers of you know, tens of thousands of children, 407 00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:01,120 Speaker 1: the starvations and the displacements of millions people. The more 408 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 1: that they do that, the more that teaches people like, oh, 409 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:09,400 Speaker 1: maybe all Jews are like that, maybe all Jews are bad. 410 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 1: And then I end up getting DMS from people photoshopping 411 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:16,480 Speaker 1: my face into an oven calling for my death when 412 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:18,680 Speaker 1: you know, I don't give a fuck about the state 413 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 1: of Israel. I don't give a fuck about any states, 414 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 1: you know. So it's just it's it's one of those 415 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:27,440 Speaker 1: things like this is like they are they are planting 416 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 1: toxic seeds and then flipping out when they sprout. 417 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 3: Talking of toxic seeds, now is the time for some 418 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,399 Speaker 3: marketing professionals to plant some toxic seeds in your mind. 419 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:52,920 Speaker 3: As we take our second advertising break. All right, well 420 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,960 Speaker 3: we're back. I hopeully haven't bought anything since we last spoke, Tylia. 421 00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 3: I wanted to talk a little bit about a thing. 422 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,720 Speaker 3: Thing that we've seen a lot is like this idea 423 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 3: of like the universe, and this happens at every protest 424 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:09,200 Speaker 3: movement right like the state, the university, whatever. Will seek 425 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,439 Speaker 3: to appoint people leaders and allow them to negotiate on 426 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:14,960 Speaker 3: behalf of everyone, even if those people have not consented 427 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 3: to be negotiated for, and then they'll use that to 428 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 3: corrupt the movement, offer concessions that these particular people might want, 429 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:25,480 Speaker 3: and in doing so kind of defang the original sort 430 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 3: of protest. Is that something that you've seen happening or 431 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 3: the university's tried to do to like divide people or 432 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:34,919 Speaker 3: to kind of pull people out and appoint them as leaders. 433 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:40,600 Speaker 1: They've suspended the people that they believe to be primary 434 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 1: student organizers, but in terms of other divisions, they have 435 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 1: not been successful. These are students organizing with their classmates. 436 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:52,760 Speaker 1: It's not possible for some outside group to infiltrate that 437 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:57,639 Speaker 1: space because they are not students at this university. You know, 438 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:02,919 Speaker 1: there's SJP chapters that students are members of in their schools, 439 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 1: but they are ultimately making the choices of what their 440 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:09,919 Speaker 1: SJP chapter is doing. And you know a lot of 441 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 1: those SJP chapters have been suspended. So, you know, I 442 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:17,680 Speaker 1: think in terms of the possibility of the university having 443 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 1: any sort of in to build some sort of op 444 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:26,879 Speaker 1: is very low. The solidarity that we're seeing is I 445 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,520 Speaker 1: don't think I've seen levels of people on the same 446 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:35,080 Speaker 1: page and able to organize the literacy of it is 447 00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:39,479 Speaker 1: just phenomenal. You know, there's people who are just they're 448 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:43,399 Speaker 1: all very like clearly knowledgeable about what it is that 449 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,679 Speaker 1: they're organizing for, what the risks are, what the history 450 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,119 Speaker 1: of the movement is, and they've spent a lot of 451 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 1: time learning those things to make sure that when they 452 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,359 Speaker 1: decide to take a step forward, that they are doing 453 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 1: so fully informed and fully empowered. And trying to break 454 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 1: that down is something that has not been successful. And 455 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:06,160 Speaker 1: we've seen that, you know, time and time again. They 456 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:07,879 Speaker 1: have this chance. The more you try to silence us, 457 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:10,760 Speaker 1: the louder we will be. And it's true, and these 458 00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:15,200 Speaker 1: institutions should probably start believing it because it would save 459 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:18,520 Speaker 1: them a lot of trouble by you know, trying to 460 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:20,840 Speaker 1: write this off is something that you know, people don't 461 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 1: know what they're doing or you know, whatever it is, 462 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,920 Speaker 1: because they are they know everything. They know everything. These 463 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,479 Speaker 1: are kids that all they do is study, you know, 464 00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:36,600 Speaker 1: like you're talking about huge nerds joining into a massive, 465 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:40,840 Speaker 1: you know, decades long social movement. They've done the reading. 466 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, talking people who's done the reading. I wanted to 467 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,000 Speaker 3: talk about like faculty because I know a lot of 468 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 3: people who are faculty at university's listened to this podcast, 469 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,480 Speaker 3: and I'm sure they're interested in, like how faculty have 470 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,360 Speaker 3: been in solidarity with students there, how they can be 471 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,160 Speaker 3: in solidarity with their own students. Have you seen that? 472 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:01,680 Speaker 3: Have you seen faculty showing up? 473 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:06,840 Speaker 1: Oh? Oh yeah. There was a massive faculty walk out 474 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,680 Speaker 1: the other day between Barnard and Columbia faculty members. The 475 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:14,040 Speaker 1: schools are kind of related, They're right across the street 476 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 1: from each other, and they have a lot of overlap. 477 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:20,160 Speaker 1: Barnard's kind of under slightly under the university the Columbia umbrella, 478 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:23,080 Speaker 1: but still has then president and things like that. And 479 00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 1: there was a huge faculty walkout from both campuses that 480 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 1: gathered on the Low the steps of the Low Library, 481 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 1: and it was easily hundreds I would say, maybe like 482 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 1: five hundred people and that was it. That was it 483 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:39,920 Speaker 1: Columbia and then NYU. The students set up an encampment 484 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:43,640 Speaker 1: and they were surrounded by faculty who had linked arms 485 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,480 Speaker 1: as a as a datacy chain around the encampment to 486 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:50,600 Speaker 1: protect the students. So we're seeing a very real, you know, 487 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 1: multi layer of solidarity emerging in these spaces, And I 488 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 1: think it's you know, even if the even if professors 489 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 1: and faculty don't necess cssarily wholly agree or wholly understand, 490 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 1: they're not fully on the same wavelength as the student organizers. Necessarily, 491 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,560 Speaker 1: they're still showing up on the basis of, like, these 492 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:15,200 Speaker 1: students of the right to express their opinions, and they 493 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:19,840 Speaker 1: should not be getting met with severe academic or state 494 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 1: discipline for doing so, because we've seen these same campuses 495 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:28,080 Speaker 1: open their doors to people like Charlie Charlie Kirk and 496 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 1: Gavin McGinnis and you know, like white supremacists and white 497 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:34,720 Speaker 1: nationalists who are able to go on their campuses and 498 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 1: spread hate and you know, right going disinformation and try 499 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:42,960 Speaker 1: and recruit people through their you know, Young Republican School chapters. 500 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 1: Those chapters aren't being disbanded. You know, there's there isn't 501 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 1: an urgent rush to prevent the hosting of white nationalists 502 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:58,240 Speaker 1: and white supremacists and you know, people who are. 503 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:04,520 Speaker 5: Actually and intensely anti Semitic to an extreme, they're not 504 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:08,280 Speaker 5: doing anything to actually like prevent those people from appearing 505 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:11,840 Speaker 5: on campus. So I think that there's there's a lot 506 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,360 Speaker 5: of layers to it, but there is a very strong 507 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:17,479 Speaker 5: surge of faculty saying like, hey, this is this is 508 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,640 Speaker 5: fucked up, and we're not We're not going to let 509 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:22,480 Speaker 5: you think that this is just kids that you're picking on, 510 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,800 Speaker 5: like you're also attacking your own staff, who you know, 511 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:27,520 Speaker 5: has a longer relationship to. 512 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,960 Speaker 1: The university, has a you know, as hard as it 513 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:32,800 Speaker 1: is as it is for these kids to get into 514 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:35,880 Speaker 1: the school, it's harder to get hired to work here, 515 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:38,239 Speaker 1: and so you know, we're seeing a lot of that. 516 00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:42,040 Speaker 1: There's also security people who were put in charge of 517 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:46,680 Speaker 1: evicting students from their rooms at Barnard because Barnard has 518 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:50,640 Speaker 1: chosen that students at Barnard who participated in this demo, 519 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:54,440 Speaker 1: they weren't only going to be suspended temporarily, but evicted 520 00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:57,520 Speaker 1: from their housing, banned from campus, unable to access any 521 00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:00,440 Speaker 1: food or meal plans. Where is the Columbia students have 522 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:03,280 Speaker 1: been suspended are still able to access housing and meal plans, 523 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:05,360 Speaker 1: but they aren't allowed to go to class or any 524 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,360 Speaker 1: campus events, which is fine because the only one that's 525 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:12,200 Speaker 1: happening right now is the encampment. But you know, there 526 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 1: was there was a security person who sent me email 527 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,160 Speaker 1: to the school at Barnard saying like I quit, like 528 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 1: this is this is inhumane, this is undignified, this is crazy. 529 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 1: You're giving these students fifteen minutes to uproot themselves from 530 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,600 Speaker 1: their rooms. They might not have another place to go. 531 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,720 Speaker 1: These you know, these might be students who don't have 532 00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:37,680 Speaker 1: a family's house nearby or you know, or the funds 533 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:42,680 Speaker 1: or the means to live somewhere else and not worry 534 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:45,800 Speaker 1: about the cost. You're you know, destabilizing people's lives in 535 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:50,160 Speaker 1: a very severe way. And this this you know, security 536 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:53,200 Speaker 1: person resigned. They're like this is nuts. So I think 537 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:57,959 Speaker 1: there's there's the fact that just the the overall what 538 00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:03,720 Speaker 1: is of how these universities are responding has provided a 539 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,160 Speaker 1: type of solidarity. And then there's also the fact that 540 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,320 Speaker 1: a lot of people just generally understand that genocide is bad, 541 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:13,719 Speaker 1: and it's gotten to a point where there's a lot 542 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:17,840 Speaker 1: of rhetoric trying to obscure that and obfuskate like what 543 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,560 Speaker 1: is genocide? And you know, israel isseroid t exist in 544 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 1: all this other like bullshit like propaganda and disinformation and 545 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:29,760 Speaker 1: you know, fear mongering and all these things. And people 546 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:32,760 Speaker 1: can see very clearly what the game is, and so 547 00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:36,960 Speaker 1: we're kind of at a pivotal moment for just common 548 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 1: reality and critical thinking. And I think that we're seeing 549 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:45,400 Speaker 1: a lot of people show that the efforts to alter 550 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:49,440 Speaker 1: what our established common reality is is not working. 551 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:51,680 Speaker 2: And this brings means is the thing I wanted to 552 00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:54,200 Speaker 2: close on, which is, where do you see this going? 553 00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:59,960 Speaker 1: Oh, I'm gonna need a minute on that one. I mean, 554 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,480 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, we're at a very pivotal moment 555 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,320 Speaker 1: in history. There's a lot of comparisons being made to 556 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:10,000 Speaker 1: protests against the Vietnam War, and in those protests, there 557 00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:13,160 Speaker 1: was a lot of state violence, a lot of state repression, 558 00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:17,319 Speaker 1: but there was also a lot of people willing to 559 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:21,920 Speaker 1: throw down in a very intense way. And you know, 560 00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:28,680 Speaker 1: we're already seeing levels to that that have very very 561 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:32,360 Speaker 1: strong parallels, you know, with Lake Aaron Bushmell, which is 562 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:38,319 Speaker 1: also a story that I ended up breaking. And you know, like, 563 00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:41,680 Speaker 1: so this is this is big, and I think that 564 00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:45,359 Speaker 1: right now, in the midst of it, it's hard to 565 00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:48,200 Speaker 1: guess what's going to happen two weeks from now or 566 00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:50,799 Speaker 1: six months from now. But I guarantee you we all 567 00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:54,000 Speaker 1: know what's going to happen fifty years from now. We're 568 00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:55,799 Speaker 1: all going to look at this fifty years from now 569 00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:58,879 Speaker 1: and be like, Wow, Stay was on some dumb shit. 570 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,920 Speaker 1: Those parts were right, and it's good that they didn't 571 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:04,480 Speaker 1: stop totally. 572 00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:07,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's a great place to end, Talia. 573 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:09,680 Speaker 3: I wonder if you would like to let people know 574 00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:11,600 Speaker 3: where they can find you, where they can read your work, 575 00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:12,920 Speaker 3: how they can support your work. 576 00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:18,200 Speaker 1: Sure, so I mostly report live on Twitter, Talia otg 577 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:21,319 Speaker 1: as in on the ground, and you can support me 578 00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:25,439 Speaker 1: by signing up on Patreon for hopefully more than five 579 00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:30,280 Speaker 1: dollars a month. Those those small donations cover the entirety 580 00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:35,840 Speaker 1: of my living and survival and allow for me to 581 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:38,560 Speaker 1: do this work for the past four years. So I'm 582 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:41,680 Speaker 1: like incredibly grateful. You know, people can support on Patreon. 583 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:43,719 Speaker 1: They can also if you just want to do like 584 00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:47,160 Speaker 1: a one time heard you on the pod and loved it. 585 00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:49,879 Speaker 1: I have like a PayPal and a Venmo and all 586 00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:52,919 Speaker 1: that other shit on my Twitter account if people want 587 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:57,440 Speaker 1: to send a couple couple bucks that way, And you know, 588 00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,799 Speaker 1: another way to support is send me tips if you 589 00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:04,520 Speaker 1: if you decide that you're gonna do something, feel free 590 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:09,680 Speaker 1: to you know email and bio. I always I always want. 591 00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:13,319 Speaker 3: To know Senda, all your all your tips, especially if 592 00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:16,560 Speaker 3: you're at Columbia University. Anything else do you want to 593 00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:18,960 Speaker 3: plug or me or anything else need to do before 594 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:19,160 Speaker 3: we go. 595 00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:25,160 Speaker 1: I'm sorry that my voice sounds really like this. It's 596 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:28,520 Speaker 1: I don't think i've I haven't gotten a lot of sleep, 597 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:31,799 Speaker 1: and I hope that everything I said was coherent, even 598 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,800 Speaker 1: though I was just giving you essay after essay after essay. 599 00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:38,600 Speaker 3: It was fantastic. Thank you so much, Shallie. 600 00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:42,239 Speaker 2: Thank you so much, and thank you guys. It's something 601 00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:43,960 Speaker 2: I could say from everyone that they could happen here. 602 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:46,600 Speaker 2: From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free. 603 00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:58,680 Speaker 6: Fuck him, fuck him up, keep yeah, fucking get him. 604 00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:01,040 Speaker 1: It could happen here as a production the cool Zone Media. 605 00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:03,960 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 606 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:07,120 Speaker 1: coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 607 00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:10,319 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can 608 00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:13,000 Speaker 1: find sources for It could Happen here, updated monthly at 609 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:16,320 Speaker 1: coolzonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.