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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha.

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Speaker 2: I'm welcome to stuff I've never told you a production

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Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio, and today we are bringing back a classic

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Speaker 2: around women's laughter.

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Speaker 1: Because as the stress has built.

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Speaker 2: Up for me, I have noticed that I am laughing

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Speaker 2: a lot more, including in our episodes. It's something I'm

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Speaker 2: trying to stop doing as much. But it's difficult because

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Speaker 2: it's something we've talked about this before. You and I

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Speaker 2: both kind of do it when we're feeling anxious or

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Speaker 2: like there's nothing we can do. Sometimes it's just a

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Speaker 2: social cueue I'm listening to you, let me laugh. But

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Speaker 2: it is something that is highly judged in women, which

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Speaker 2: is what we talked about in this episode. It was

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Speaker 2: one of the first as I discussed. It was one

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Speaker 2: of the first critiques I got from a male listener.

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Speaker 2: Of course, you giggle way too much. So I just

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Speaker 2: thought I would bring this back because I have noticed it.

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Speaker 2: If you've noticed it as well. I'm stressed. I'm just stressed.

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Speaker 2: I'm trying.

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Speaker 3: Okay, it's better than us crying. What do you want

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Speaker 3: us to do? Cry or laugh?

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Speaker 1: Laugh or cry both at the same time?

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Speaker 4: Perhaps, well, please enjoy this classic episode. Hey, This is

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Speaker 4: Annie and Samantha and welcome to stuff I've never told you,

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Speaker 4: protector of iHeart Radio. So before we get into this,

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Speaker 4: one very quick content warning where you're gonna have some

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Speaker 4: brief discussion of rape culture and mental health.

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Speaker 1: Nothing to you in depth, but just to put that

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Speaker 1: out there.

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Speaker 2: And today we are talking about laughter and the history

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Speaker 2: of women laughing, the judgment around women laughing, the feminist

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Speaker 2: reclaiming of women laughing, and we're also going to briefly

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Speaker 2: touch on why we laugh and what it could signal

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Speaker 2: with all of that. Samantha, how do you feel about

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Speaker 2: your laugh?

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Speaker 3: Oh? I hate it?

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, my laugh gets really loud, so it's not super

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Speaker 3: loud that you can pick it out. But if it's

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Speaker 3: a dead silent moment, I don't just giggle. I do

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Speaker 3: a yelp first, yeah, and then it goes into whatever

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Speaker 3: the rest of the thing is. If I'm having one

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Speaker 3: of those moments where I'm having an uncontrollable laughter, I

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Speaker 3: definitely snort, and because I can't, I can't breathe. That's

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Speaker 3: the level I am so I hate hearing myself laugh.

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Speaker 3: And I tried one time to really cultivate into being

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Speaker 3: like a girly cute laugh. Ray, I couldn't do it,

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Speaker 3: just didn't happen. I was like, well, I am who

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Speaker 3: I am? So that there it is?

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Speaker 1: What about you? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I also, I will say I have mixed feelings about

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Speaker 2: my laugh because I feel like I don't have a.

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Speaker 1: Very feminine laugh either.

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Speaker 2: But then that now that I'm older and I think

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Speaker 2: about that, I'm like, well, okay, what.

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Speaker 1: Does that say. We are going to talk about that

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Speaker 1: in a minute.

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Speaker 2: However, I will say a lot of people at our

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Speaker 2: office are very complimentary of my laugh, and it's very

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Speaker 2: sweet of them, and it's I'm still very self conscious

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Speaker 2: of it, because I guess either way, when you draw

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Speaker 2: attention to something, it makes it put to you in

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Speaker 2: your head about it. And this is one of those

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Speaker 2: episodes that as we talk about it, I'm very conscious

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Speaker 2: of as yes, I know, I know. And that's one

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Speaker 2: of the things we're going to talk about, is like

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Speaker 2: all these different reasons that we do laugh. And I'm

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Speaker 2: somebody that I laugh a lot. I laugh a lot,

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Speaker 2: and I think for anyone listening that is no surprise.

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Speaker 2: Some of my nicknames are Giggles, Gigs, and bright.

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Speaker 1: Side because I laughed so much.

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Speaker 3: We who calls you these names? Because I've never heard this,

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Speaker 3: I an say this to you, so just curious.

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Speaker 1: I have other friends, Samantha, but yes, no you have it, No,

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Speaker 1: you have it. And Samantha, you know.

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Speaker 2: My Dungeons and Dragons character's name, one of them, her

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Speaker 2: name is. Her name is gigs on Tank And you're

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Speaker 2: very suspicious of this name.

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Speaker 3: That is that person tried to call me on sky

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Speaker 3: Paul's like, Nope, I will not take your dick pics.

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Speaker 1: It was just me. It was just me. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: I laugh easily for all sorts of reasons.

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Speaker 2: My mom used to joke my giggle box would get

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Speaker 2: turned over because I would just laugh and laugh and laughing.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't stop laughing.

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Speaker 2: And this is also one of the things I get

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Speaker 2: critiqued on the most as a host, and especially when

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Speaker 2: I was a new host, I'd get messages like, no

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Speaker 2: one could take you seriously. You sound like a little

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Speaker 2: girl at a slumber party who's snuck in to her

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Speaker 2: dad's liquor cabinet.

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Speaker 1: I remember that one very well.

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Speaker 3: That's a lot of specific like why did you need

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Speaker 3: to go all of those words? That was unnecessary?

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Speaker 1: Right? Yes, I think it was.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of really condescending sexist language like that,

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Speaker 2: especially like being a little girl or something.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And nowadays I get those messages far less because

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Speaker 2: I feel like those people have left, those mostly dudes,

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Speaker 2: to be honest, have left. But I still you'll get

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Speaker 2: really insecure about it anytime you do again, anytime you

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Speaker 2: do an episode like this, filler language is another one

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Speaker 2: where you could become.

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Speaker 1: More and more aware of it. It gets more and

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Speaker 1: more like.

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Speaker 2: You get more and more judgmental about it about how

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Speaker 2: much you do something. And I do want to emphasize

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Speaker 2: every time we do episodes like this, it's not some weird,

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Speaker 2: passive aggressive message to you, the lovely listeners, because you

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Speaker 2: are genuinely lovely and I honestly do get if people

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Speaker 2: laugh too much and that annoys you. Though as always,

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Speaker 2: you can just disengage. You don't have to listen to

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Speaker 2: something you don't want to try. Do I have to

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Speaker 2: comment on it, But it does turn out there is

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Speaker 2: a long history of censoring and judging women's laughter, right,

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Speaker 2: actually really fascinating.

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Speaker 1: I'm very excited to talk about it.

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Speaker 2: I will say the same is true with tears when

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Speaker 2: it comes to women. I was thinking about this and

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Speaker 2: just any kind of emotion we might show. There's a

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Speaker 2: lot of judgment around it.

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Speaker 3: If you're having too much fun, then you're annoying. You're

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Speaker 3: too sad about it than you are. You just can't

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Speaker 3: handle it. You too sensitives, exactly exactly.

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Speaker 2: Both of them are dismissed as you were being essentially

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Speaker 2: a little girl, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but speaking of I just told you this story,

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Speaker 2: you did. I once was scolded at Universal Theme Parks

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Speaker 2: in Orlando for laughing too much by a fellow dressed.

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Speaker 1: As an elf. I was at amusement park. I've never

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Speaker 1: forgotten it. It's really funny now.

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Speaker 2: He definitely dressed me down in front of a whole

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Speaker 2: crowd of people.

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Speaker 3: Right, it's a whole crew of you, right, just having

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Speaker 3: a good old time. He just like went off to

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Speaker 3: after all of y'all.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he did for laughing too much.

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Speaker 2: And it's not like we were being drunk fools or anything.

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Speaker 2: We just were laughing and having fun, too much fun.

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Speaker 3: How dare you ad amusement park?

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Speaker 1: Too much? Amusement too much?

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Speaker 2: So I did want to briefly touch on why we laugh, which,

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Speaker 2: as we discussed in the why we dream episode.

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Speaker 1: It's still kind of We're not totally.

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Speaker 2: Sure, but as early as three months old, babies do

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Speaker 2: start laughing. There are a couple of reasons that women

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Speaker 2: and all of us laugh, although there are some that

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Speaker 2: are unique to women, which we're going to touch on.

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Speaker 2: To communicate camaraderie, connection, cooperation, joy, humor, sadness.

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Speaker 1: In response to an.

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Speaker 2: Awkward or painful moment, people are thirty times more likely

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Speaker 2: to laugh in a group, which demonstrates the social nature

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Speaker 2: of it, which scientists think it's a big social thing

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Speaker 2: of like communicating, right, something.

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Speaker 1: About how you feel or how you vibe within the group.

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Speaker 3: I feel like it's very contagious too.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean we talked about that a little

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Speaker 2: bit when we were talking about slumber parties and I

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Speaker 2: was saying that that game I would play tummy haha.

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Speaker 2: The whole point was once somebody actually started laughing, you

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Speaker 2: would all start laughing.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I think that's a big part of like TikTok. Again,

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Speaker 3: I'm talking about TikTok, but a lot of the videos

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Speaker 3: that I've seen has been something like contagious laughter or

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Speaker 3: something along those lines. And I will say little baby

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Speaker 3: giggles that are truly enjoying life get to go and sometimes.

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Speaker 2: For sure, but yeah, I mean it's hard not to

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Speaker 2: at least smile. Yes, if somebody's really truly expressing joy.

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Speaker 3: This joy just say so. Laughter is believed to have

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Speaker 3: potential health benefits, and I think we've all kind of

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Speaker 3: heard this, including as a stress reliever, which is one

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Speaker 3: reason for things like laugh yoga. And I was thinking

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Speaker 3: about this too because I was like, my neighbor does

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Speaker 3: crying yoga, but I've never heard or do the laughing yoga.

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Speaker 1: Should ask about.

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Speaker 3: Research suggests that people who laugh more have a lower

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Speaker 3: risk of cardiovascular illness.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting, yeah, and I think that goes in line

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Speaker 2: with a lot of things we've talked about where stress

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Speaker 2: does cause health issues. So if laughter is believe to

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Speaker 2: reduce stress, then it makes sense they would have at

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Speaker 2: least somewhat of an impact, maybe not a huge impact

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Speaker 2: on these other things. Recent studies have found that across

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Speaker 2: cultures and continents, people can pick up on fake laughter.

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Speaker 2: These studies also found that fake laughter can be useful

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Speaker 2: in terms of continuing or facilitating conversation, so it's not

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Speaker 2: necessarily always a bad thing. Surveys have also found that

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Speaker 2: women prefer telling jokes to smaller groups of people and

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Speaker 2: even more so small groups of women as compared to men,

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Speaker 2: who prefer bigger crowds to tell their jokes, and many

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Speaker 2: speculate this might be at least part of the reason

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Speaker 2: the women have no sense of humor thing got started

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Speaker 2: is because men don't see women joke as often because

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Speaker 2: they prefer to tell jokes in smaller groups and more

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Speaker 2: likely to women, which I thought was interesting.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, and.

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Speaker 2: Then we did want to talk about the use of

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Speaker 2: laughter in flirting and right also it's roll in rape culture.

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Speaker 3: So plenty of recent studies caught the public's attention claiming

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Speaker 3: that yes, humor is what women really want in men,

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Speaker 3: I love the funny man, and yes this is heteronormative certainly.

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Speaker 3: In researching this, most of the top results were things

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Speaker 3: like what does it mean when a woman laughs? How

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Speaker 3: to tell if a woman is fake laughing? And one

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Speaker 3: of the reasons this is believed to be the case

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Speaker 3: is that in the case you will have fun with

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Speaker 3: this person, I will say, and I think we're about

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Speaker 3: to get into it. I had a very long sexist conversation,

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Speaker 3: meaning like he was being sexist and almost punched him

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Speaker 3: in the face. A conversation with a dude about how

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Speaker 3: he knows that a girl likes him because she will

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Speaker 3: laugh at his jokes and appreciate what he says, and

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Speaker 3: to the point that I'm like, he made it seem

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Speaker 3: that women only laugh because of these reasons and all

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Speaker 3: women fake it and I had to look at them

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Speaker 3: and we're like, no, that's not well, that's I think

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Speaker 3: I made the conversation. Well, that's that's more about you

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Speaker 3: and how you're not funny and you know this, right,

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Speaker 3: and so that is your radar and maybe you should

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Speaker 3: work on your jokes and your personality. Yeah, and we

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Speaker 3: got into it. Yeah, I can see that.

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Speaker 2: But it reminds me of when we were talking about

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Speaker 2: the whole women can't have an orgasm thing, where it's like, right,

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Speaker 2: I think this might say more about you exactly, but

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Speaker 2: that is that is a very we hear that a lot, right,

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Speaker 2: is you know women are going to laugh harder at

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Speaker 2: jokes that aren't funny from men to show interest.

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Speaker 1: This makes sense.

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Speaker 2: But if what you're saying is I don't have to

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Speaker 2: be funny, it doesn't matter.

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Speaker 1: That might be a slightly different thing.

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Speaker 3: Also, it may come to the point and I have

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Speaker 3: done this, and I'm sure when we talk about it

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Speaker 3: more women would say I have faked laughed it hopes

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Speaker 3: to avoid a confrontation from you. Yes, And so I'm

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Speaker 3: just gonna pretend like I'm amused by you and move

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Speaker 3: on and really try to get away. But I'm gonna

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Speaker 3: be like, that's so funny, i gotta do a thing

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Speaker 3: over there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I think I've told this story before, but one time

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Speaker 2: I was in college and somebody I was at a

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Speaker 2: bar and somebody grabbed my ass and I turned and laughed,

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Speaker 2: and I like, back the wave. I was laughing, and

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Speaker 2: I like, I look back on it now and I'm

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Speaker 2: so ashamed. But I'm also like, what else was I

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Speaker 2: gonna do? Right, I'm surprised.

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Speaker 3: For one dis mechanism and be like okay, yeahs oh.

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Speaker 1: God, okay. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But the I think it was within the past two

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Speaker 2: years that study came out that said, you know women.

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Speaker 1: I think it might have been.

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Speaker 2: Specific to the UK, but it was very It caught

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Speaker 2: a lot of headlines everywhere where. It was like women,

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Speaker 2: funniness is the most important trade, or the most attractive

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Speaker 2: trade or whatever. And they do think that's because it's

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Speaker 2: a signal that you can have fun with someone, you

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Speaker 2: can out laugh with someone. As always with those studies,

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Speaker 2: though it's you know, social things that are hard to quantify.

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Speaker 2: For sure, I like laughing with a person, for sure.

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Speaker 2: That's also true after this, Yes, many afflirting articles advise

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Speaker 2: women how and when to laugh to you attract men,

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Speaker 2: and yes, this how to laugh.

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Speaker 1: I was thinking about this.

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Speaker 2: If you look at words you used to describe men's laughter,

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Speaker 2: you'll see a lot of words like boisterous or loud

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Speaker 2: or like you know, from the gut or from the stomach,

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Speaker 2: while for women it's a lot of times words like tittering,

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Speaker 2: bell like giggling, a lot smaller and like quote dainty sounds.

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Speaker 2: And that kind of goes back to what we were

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Speaker 2: talking about earlier, where I've got a bunch of different laughs.

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Speaker 2: But I'm generally a pretty loud laugher as well, and

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Speaker 2: for a while I did feel like I needed to

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Speaker 2: contain it and quiet it down and control it more

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Speaker 2: and be more quote lady like with my laughter, which

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Speaker 2: is interesting.

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Speaker 1: But okay.

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Speaker 2: Conversely, the male fear of being rejected and even laughed

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Speaker 2: at by women is something that comes up a lot

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Speaker 2: in conversations around rape culture, and this is not a

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Speaker 2: new thing.

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Speaker 1: Emma B.

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Speaker 2: Phelps testified in an eighteen ninety three New Haven divorce case, quote,

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Speaker 2: she laughed at her husband and he knocked her senseless.

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Speaker 2: In eighteen ninety seven, a man allegedly blew himself up

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Speaker 2: with dynamite after a woman refused his proposal of marriage,

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Speaker 2: laughing at him. The Baltimore Sun wrote the man quote

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Speaker 2: had a dynamite bomb with him and threatened that if

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Speaker 2: the woman refused him, he would blow himself to pieces.

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Speaker 2: She laughed at him, and he went to the stoneyard

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Speaker 2: a block distant and killed himself. In nineteen oh three,

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Speaker 2: Alice Hineger was murdered quote with a monkey wrinch, because

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Speaker 2: she laughed at a man when he pressed her to

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Speaker 2: marry him.

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Speaker 3: I think that's more to say about men and fragile

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Speaker 3: ego more so than the laughter. But yeah, I've definitely

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Speaker 3: seen where for women, You're correct, it's either seen as

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Speaker 3: being really condescendingly like giggling like a little girl, or

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Speaker 3: being seen as a witch hickling and or you know,

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Speaker 3: trying to bully someone or demoralize someone it's one or

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Speaker 3: the other. It seems, it seems so. In nineteen oh five,

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Speaker 3: Virginia Wolfe wrote about women's laughter quote light lightning, it

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Speaker 3: triples them up and leaves the bones bear. And of

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Speaker 3: course Margaret at What's famous quote, men are afraid that

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Speaker 3: women will laugh at them, and women are afraid men

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Speaker 3: will kill them, which, again yes, Nancy Dowd's survey The

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Speaker 3: Man in Question found that women report their greatest fear

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Speaker 3: is rape and murder, while men's greatest fear is being

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Speaker 3: laughed at. And I've heard this a lot actually, And

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Speaker 3: then in nineteen twenty two, Helen Roland wrote, a man

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Speaker 3: will forgive his wife for committing robbery or murder or

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Speaker 3: breaking the Ten Commandments, yet threaten to leave her for

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Speaker 3: laughing at the wrong moment. Yeah, is you can see,

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Speaker 3: like I think I've seen many a scene just recently

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Speaker 3: even where if a woman laughs in this defense then

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Speaker 3: they are like, first of all, what are you laughing at?

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Speaker 3: And then somehow abused.

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Speaker 1: Yes. Yes, And we're going to get into this more

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Speaker 1: in a minute.

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Speaker 2: But it's very different how we judge women and men

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Speaker 2: historically based on laughing at the wrong moment. And I

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Speaker 2: you know, we just had Halloween and I just watched

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Speaker 2: Practical Magic, and that's why Jimmy hit Jilly in Practical

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Speaker 2: Magic because she laughed at him about a donut.

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Speaker 1: It's like, oh, the research and true life coming.

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Speaker 3: Together, I will say, now i'm thinking about it. I

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Speaker 3: knew the one way that I could win an argument

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Speaker 3: with my brother was to laugh at him really and

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Speaker 3: it would anger him to no end and I would

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Speaker 3: just walk away. We're ready form to bounce on me

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Speaker 3: mm hm, no real fights. Like it wasn't. It was

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Speaker 3: right at each other, but like that's I remember that

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Speaker 3: as thinking like, this is what's gonna bother him.

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Speaker 1: Here we go.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it has been, and it's very effective as a

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Speaker 2: tool defiance, and we're going to get into that more too.

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Speaker 2: But I've definitely had that thought as well. If I

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Speaker 2: get in a bigger argument and I'm like, you know,

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Speaker 2: really burn this person up if I start laughing what

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Speaker 2: they're saying, right, Yeah, And that's part of the as

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Speaker 2: we've discussed before, using comedy as this sort of political

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Speaker 2: satire and weapon in that manner, and that's one of

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Speaker 2: the things which is a good segue into what we're

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Speaker 2: talking about next. Which is trauma and laughing in the

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Speaker 2: face of like something that's painful or dark for me

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Speaker 2: is easier to handle, especially news if it's presented in

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Speaker 2: the kind of a satirical or funny way, just because

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Speaker 2: it's so often is.

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Speaker 1: Pretty grim, pretty grim.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, as we discussed in our Trauma mini series,

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Speaker 2: laughter is sometimes utilized as a coping mechan in the

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Speaker 2: face of trauma and grief.

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Speaker 1: I know, it's definitely a coping mechanism for me.

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Speaker 2: There wasn't as much information as I thought there would

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Speaker 2: be out there on this, but I did find some

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Speaker 2: articles that said laughter promotes resilience in the face of

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Speaker 2: stress and illness. It is something that you know, historically

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Speaker 2: people have used to almost defiantly, to reclaim joy in

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Speaker 2: the face of all these horrible circumstances. And I mean,

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Speaker 2: when I think about it as someone who does laugh

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Speaker 2: a lot, like one, that's sort of my that's how

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Speaker 2: I am. And two it is a way of being like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: I can I can still find something to laugh at,

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Speaker 2: or it can still be in what for me is.

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Speaker 1: Normal and for me, laughing is pretty normal.

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Speaker 2: But it's also like I just like I've said a lot,

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Speaker 2: I feel a lot of pressure. And I've been socialized

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Speaker 2: a lot to make people happy and to kind of

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Speaker 2: be that person that cheers people up. And that's hard

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Speaker 2: to let go, even in the face of right or

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Speaker 2: maybe even as especially in the face of when you're

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Speaker 2: trying to hold on to something right of like hard

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Speaker 2: things of grief and trauma and you're just trying to

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Speaker 2: find like something from your quote, like I like to

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Speaker 2: call it the before and after of mine, before of

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Speaker 2: what who I felt like I was then and then

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Speaker 2: and all this stuff with trauma and you feel like, oh,

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Speaker 2: all your foundation is shaken, and I would just try

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Speaker 2: to grab onto these like pieces and deal with it

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Speaker 2: that way.

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Speaker 3: And we've talked about this previously, and not that this

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Speaker 3: is an actual scientific statement, but I know this is

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Speaker 3: very to me as a person on the outside seemingly

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Speaker 3: middle child syndrome to keep the piece, to keep the happiness,

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Speaker 3: and you are a middle child, so that none of

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Speaker 3: that is to a surprising a but I think like

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Speaker 3: another part of that, when you're talking about your own

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Speaker 3: trauma and the fact that you laugh that's your response

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Speaker 3: and I do too. I do too. I actually make

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Speaker 3: sarcastic jokes, which we're going to get into just a second,

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Speaker 3: but the fact that many people respond when they specifically

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Speaker 3: are about their own trauma, which is what we were

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Speaker 3: talking about in this episode. We were like, let's do

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Speaker 3: this episode because I was very angry because we did

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Speaker 3: get a critique on one of our reviews, because I

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Speaker 3: keep making the stupid mistake of looking at the reviews.

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Speaker 3: Most of them are so kind and so beautiful and

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Speaker 3: thank you so much, but the few that come in

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Speaker 3: says negative. I'm like, why do you even take the time, Like,

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Speaker 3: just go ahead and put the one star and move on.

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Speaker 3: I don't care. None of the things that you're critiquing

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Speaker 3: us for we can change. I can't change this about myself, sorry,

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Speaker 3: And Adie can't change this about herself. Sorry. But one

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Speaker 3: of those was about, like you are laughing during serious stuff.

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Speaker 3: Y'all need to get over this. This is so childish

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Speaker 3: type of thing. And we hey, we've already told you

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Speaker 3: at the very beginning this is how we respond. We

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Speaker 3: probably said it in that episode, whatever episode you're responding to,

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Speaker 3: because we talk about a lot of traumatic things, let's

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Speaker 3: be will b, you're also not laughing at other people's trauma.

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Speaker 3: You're literally talking about your own experiences and your response

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Speaker 3: is to giggle, to try to handle it and just

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Speaker 3: try to maintain. And again, I think, I think one

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Speaker 3: of the things that infuriate me in any of those

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00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:05,000
Speaker 3: comments or any of these levels, is this is what

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Speaker 3: helped us survive. Why would you come in here and

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Speaker 3: try to take that away when obviously that is a

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Speaker 3: strength for us. You may not see it for that way,

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Speaker 3: You may not see it for yourself, and you may

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Speaker 3: be able to handle it on a whole different level.

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Speaker 3: I don't know. But if it's not hurting you, it's

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Speaker 3: not hurting us, and it's something that can keep us

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Speaker 3: on a steady way without completely going overboard in whatever route.

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Speaker 3: And that could be unhealthy. Why is it bothering you?

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Speaker 3: Why is it bothering you? And I think that just

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Speaker 3: angers me to so much that we have to criticize

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Speaker 3: other people's handling of trauma when it's not unhealthy.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, And I mean we did talk about that

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Speaker 2: a lot, especially when we talked about grief as well,

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Speaker 2: and how people feel like grief should look a certain

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Speaker 2: way and if it doesn't look that way, then you're

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Speaker 2: not grieving enough for you're grieving too much, you're giving

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Speaker 2: the wrong way, and I think you know, as was

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Speaker 2: pretty much everything we talk about. It's hard to unpack

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Speaker 2: and untangle all of the social factors that go into

440
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:13,160
Speaker 2: why you do a certain thing.

441
00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:14,960
Speaker 1: I think that for.

442
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:19,199
Speaker 2: I imagine a lot of women who use laughter as

443
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 2: a coping mechanism, but for anybody, but for women, there's also,

444
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:25,840
Speaker 2: like I'm sure I know you've experienced this as well.

445
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:28,640
Speaker 2: When you do open up and you share something that's

446
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:32,679
Speaker 2: really dark and really painful with somebody, it's clear they

447
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 2: are really uncomfortable, and then you say something funny or

448
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 2: something to lighten the mood because it's just silent, and

449
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 2: it's that's obvious the other person doesn't know what to say,

450
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,080
Speaker 2: and I don't fault them for that, Like sometimes there's

451
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:49,560
Speaker 2: nothing to say, right, but you do. I'm somebody who

452
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:51,400
Speaker 2: also struggles with silence a.

453
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:52,400
Speaker 1: Lot of times.

454
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:56,600
Speaker 2: So if it's like goes silent, somebody's miserable and like,

455
00:23:56,640 --> 00:24:02,160
Speaker 2: oh wow, they didn't Okay, well let's flash bit, let's

456
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:04,000
Speaker 2: make this better. It's like what you're I mean, in

457
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,040
Speaker 2: a much lighter way. It's like when you're on an

458
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:08,520
Speaker 2: awkward day and you're like Wow, this is awkward. Let's

459
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:10,960
Speaker 2: laugh about it, because right, it's really.

460
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:14,159
Speaker 3: Awkward, right, I mean that is exactly so when we

461
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:16,520
Speaker 3: talk about social work, I would talk about the fact, hey,

462
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:17,919
Speaker 3: you don't want to hang out with a lot of

463
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:21,399
Speaker 3: social workers if you do, if you're really sensitive and

464
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,240
Speaker 3: don't have a dark sense of humor, because we are twisted,

465
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:28,199
Speaker 3: like immediately, this is the way we cope, and we

466
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:30,639
Speaker 3: have to joke about things that are really inappropriate and

467
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:34,439
Speaker 3: really like yes, we outside of that reil, we're like,

468
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:36,960
Speaker 3: this is really bad. We shouldn't do this. But if

469
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 3: we didn't, I think we would constantly be on like

470
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:43,239
Speaker 3: a wave of crashing and almost wanted to like, you know,

471
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,920
Speaker 3: just go to sleep forever because it is so dark

472
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:48,879
Speaker 3: and it gets so dark, and because it weighs on

473
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,199
Speaker 3: you so heavily, like there's nothing to do but to

474
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:55,479
Speaker 3: make an obvious statement, maybe inappropriate to those who hopefully

475
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 3: would understand, and just trying to move on because it

476
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 3: is so dark and so twisted that you can't if

477
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 3: you can't laugh about it for just a minute, then

478
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:05,919
Speaker 3: there's a whole Even though in your mind you're we

479
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 3: have to do all of these things, but I need

480
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,200
Speaker 3: a minute. I need a break from the depth and

481
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:14,960
Speaker 3: the darkness of this really really dark, really really heavy

482
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 3: situation to being able to be like, well, at least

483
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 3: SO and SO didn't do this part too, Like that's

484
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 3: the caveat to it. And even though on the outside

485
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 3: they're like, holy crap, what why would you do that,

486
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 3: it's kind of like, well, because this is how we survive.

487
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:34,639
Speaker 3: And again, when we're on in our own trauma, whether

488
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:36,680
Speaker 3: it's to fill the silence, whether it's to make other

489
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 3: people comfortable because you don't know what else to do,

490
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 3: it's kind of the same thing. It's like people will

491
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 3: get really uncomfortable with race stuff, and instead of accepting

492
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:46,639
Speaker 3: the fact, oh you're racist in as, it was like,

493
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:48,840
Speaker 3: you don't know how to act around brown people. So

494
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:51,160
Speaker 3: this is what you're doing. I would make jokes about

495
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:53,680
Speaker 3: myself in a manner I'm like, I really shouldn't have

496
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 3: had to do that, but it's awkward and I don't

497
00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:57,879
Speaker 3: know what else to do but to make you laugh

498
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 3: and make myself laugh. I hope this makes it better,

499
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,919
Speaker 3: although it just fits into your racism and prejudice and

500
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 3: stereotypical ideas of me.

501
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:11,960
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, And I mean, that's a good point

502
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:13,960
Speaker 2: to make, kind of going back to what you were

503
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 2: saying a little bit earlier, is you know, we're laughing

504
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 2: at our own trauma or too perhaps make other people

505
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:23,199
Speaker 2: more comfortable with our own trauma.

506
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 1: But that's different than like making jokes. You have no

507
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 1: right to be making right, very very very different or

508
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:30,680
Speaker 1: laughing like.

509
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:33,200
Speaker 2: I did read and this is complicated, and I don't

510
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:34,919
Speaker 2: want to go into it now, but I will mention it.

511
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 1: I did read a.

512
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 2: Couple of articles about basically people grieving, but on opposite

513
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:45,959
Speaker 2: ends of something like perhaps somebody their son had killed

514
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:49,399
Speaker 2: somebody else's child in a drunk driving accident and the

515
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:51,359
Speaker 2: mother of the child that's i'd laughing at the funeral

516
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:55,719
Speaker 2: or something like. That's a bit different than what we're discussing, right,

517
00:26:55,760 --> 00:27:01,640
Speaker 2: I suppose, like I understand it, but that that's that's

518
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:02,879
Speaker 2: not the same as what we're just.

519
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:03,879
Speaker 1: Sorting right now.

520
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 3: Again and again, that's what we were talking about to

521
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 3: when it comes to us processing our own trauma and

522
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 3: if it's not to the point that it is hurting

523
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 3: someone else. So when I say processing on trauma, those

524
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 3: who delve into alcohol or go into some type of

525
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 3: addictive personality, trait and habit. That's a whole different conversation.

526
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 3: I'm not saying I encourage that. But when we're talking

527
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 3: about laughing to process our own trauma, that's the whole again.

528
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 3: How is this hurting you? Why are you needing to

529
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,719
Speaker 3: speak on it? And also why are you judging our

530
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 3: own trauma? Like that's a double memy on that in itself.

531
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I do think it's interesting in something we've

532
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 2: talked about before. But when you're in a public sphere,

533
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,720
Speaker 2: some of those things get amplified because you're supposed to

534
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:56,160
Speaker 2: be even if you're doing serious topics, you are supposed

535
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 2: to be entertaining in some way while also getting across

536
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 2: at you cations, acasual content, and when you're talking about

537
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:06,879
Speaker 2: something serious, that can be really tricky, and especially if

538
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:08,399
Speaker 2: you do have your own trauma in your way, you

539
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:10,880
Speaker 2: act your own trauma on top of that.

540
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:13,160
Speaker 1: And that's not to say there's.

541
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 2: Been plenty of episodes where I feel like there was

542
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 2: hardly any laughter involved, but right, you know, when there's

543
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,399
Speaker 2: also that level of it if you're like, oh, this

544
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 2: is too sad, and what's going to listen to it?

545
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 2: Because all it is is sad, I've got to do something.

546
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:29,199
Speaker 3: It's usually my episodes. I'm like, so I want to

547
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 3: talk about this really bad thing. Let's go, And I'm

548
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,880
Speaker 3: sorry everybody starts like sitting in the corner in the dark.

549
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think that's a balance that is it's

550
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 2: really difficult to pull off. But I do like going

551
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 2: back to what I said where it's easier for me

552
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 2: to handle darker topics if there is some humor in there, right,

553
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 2: And I don't think that's wrong or bad. I think

554
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 2: there's a way to do it, in a way not

555
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 2: to do it, but I think it makes sense that

556
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 2: you need almost like a palatee. There's something to get

557
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 2: stop your heart from like just getting so so sad

558
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 2: and heavy that you don't want to take in any

559
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 2: more information, right, Yeah, which was all a pandemic gas

560
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 2: either it is. We have so many examples of it.

561
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 2: Just hear this episode. I will say one of my

562
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 2: triggers actually is loud male laughing. That's something I've had

563
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 2: to work with, but like really loud that can get me.

564
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 1: M hmm.

565
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 3: Interesting. There's a lot of figures like that. So again,

566
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 3: dark humor has been shown to improve mental health among

567
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 3: those who participate in stressful job like nursing and social work.

568
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 3: And I tell you, we lived off of dark jokes

569
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 3: to the point that I couldn't be around normal people

570
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 3: because I realized I cannot be socializing with people who

571
00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 3: do not understand what this is. When I make a

572
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 3: comment about a case that I'm going through and they

573
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 3: gave me the blank stare of horrified looks, and I'm like, oh,

574
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 3: y'all don't know anything about the okay, cool, I'm just

575
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 3: I'm gonna sit in the corner. Because yes, it takes.

576
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 3: It's especially when you have a job that you really

577
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 3: delve into and it impacts other people. So social service

578
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 3: is nursing and teaching. It's really hard not to see

579
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 3: some type of or at least having to cause inside jokes.

580
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 3: I guess I'm having to have inside jokes or such,

581
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 3: which again not always appropriate and I'm not And if

582
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 3: it's racial any of that, that's not what we're talking

583
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 3: about at all. We're talking about human drama, human trauma,

584
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 3: human darkness, that's what we're talking about. It definitely, yeah,

585
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 3: it definitely helps you just to be able to wake

586
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 3: up the next day. That's where it gets down to

587
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 3: and there's a commaderate to that, yeah, that you have

588
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 3: to have.

589
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, and I think I know with my nursing friends,

590
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 2: I've heard a lot about that of being during this

591
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 2: pandemic and being a stress reliever. But they've noticed like

592
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 2: their humor has gotten significantly darker.

593
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, during all of this. Yeah, I think we had.

594
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 3: I had a moment when I was working in CPS

595
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 3: investigating child abuse. I had several nursing friends and we

596
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 3: would just share war stories. Let's talk about what was

597
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 3: worse to make ourselves feel better that their job was

598
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 3: worse than our job. It was not pretty.

599
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I can imagine.

600
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 2: Speaking of We did briefly want to touch on the

601
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 2: film Joker with Joaquin Phoenix, just because we were talking

602
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 2: about the different perceptions people have of men and women

603
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 2: laughing when it comes to things like trauma and that.

604
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 1: You know that movie, And we're gonna get circle back

605
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 1: to this.

606
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 2: But I know there's like an ableism narrative there, because

607
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 2: if you haven't seen it, it's sort of a disorder

608
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 2: he has, right, that's he laughs.

609
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 3: So yeah, it's called pseudo bulber effect or PBA, and

610
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:08,480
Speaker 3: that's what he was dealing with.

611
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I mean laughter is frequently a tool writers

612
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 1: do use in things.

613
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 2: Things like that to indicate like like villainous behavior. And

614
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 2: then this one's got like also the ableism there, right,

615
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 2: this is actually something he's dealing with. But just the

616
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 2: way people reacted to that and that movie versus us.

617
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 1: You know, talking about our own trauma just interesting.

618
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 3: From what I remember from the movie, stress caused him

619
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 3: to laugh, and so people didn't understand what was happening

620
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 3: because I know, like stress, Like for me, we talked

621
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 3: about stress causes me to be really sleepy, so I

622
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 3: guess it's similar to that effect.

623
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean.

624
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 2: Obviously I don't want to be compared to the joker necessarily.

625
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 1: But.

626
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 2: Just yeah, I mean, I guess we know that laughter

627
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,239
Speaker 2: is a response to stress and trauma. It does make

628
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 2: people uncomfortable sometimes, I think, but it seems that the

629
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:29,560
Speaker 2: reaction you get when it's women is much more like dismissive,

630
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 2: I guess, either dismissive if it's trauma, or like angry

631
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 2: if it's related to dating. Yeah, just to you know,

632
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 2: I feel like we understand that this is a thing,

633
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 2: but we're judging people for it and we're judging differently

634
00:33:49,600 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 2: based on gender, which is interesting. So we did want

635
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 2: to go into a history of women laughing because, as

636
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:13,720
Speaker 2: we mentioned in the intro, there's been a long history

637
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:17,400
Speaker 2: of judging women's laughter and sometimes even criminalizing it. In

638
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,560
Speaker 2: Ancient Greece, Aristotle war it gets the pitfalls of laughter,

639
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,759
Speaker 2: writing quote, most people enjoy amusement and jesting more than

640
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 2: they should, as is a kind of mockery, and loggivers

641
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,799
Speaker 2: forbid some kinds of mockery. Perhaps they ought to have

642
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:34,279
Speaker 2: forbidden some kinds of jesting. God seems to be on

643
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:37,320
Speaker 2: the same page. In the Old Testament, laughing at God

644
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:41,400
Speaker 2: was not at all tolerated, and even when God laughs,

645
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 2: it's an act of hostility and fury, not a good

646
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 2: thing at all. There's one instance where a group of

647
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 2: boys laugh at a prophet, So God six two she

648
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 2: bears on them and kills like almost all of them.

649
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 1: I believe right.

650
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 3: They're making fun of the prophet, though that's a little different,

651
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 3: and then throwing things and taunting him and trying to

652
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 3: hurt him. So that's a little bit of f than

653
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 3: just laughing at just saying so. During the Middle Ages,

654
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 3: women's laughter was viewed as unruly, course and something associated

655
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:13,439
Speaker 3: with the body and not at all ladylike, as in fact,

656
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:16,400
Speaker 3: the whole tee covering of the mouth is what you

657
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:19,959
Speaker 3: would often see represented. Women were advised not to laugh,

658
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:24,280
Speaker 3: that it was uncouth, despite that female characters and literature

659
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 3: ranging from the thirteenth to the sixteenth century often engaged

660
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:32,319
Speaker 3: in laughter. In Lisa Profetti's work Women in Laughter in

661
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:36,399
Speaker 3: Medieval Comic Literature, she argues that laughter was a way

662
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:39,800
Speaker 3: to talk back to the views around women at the time.

663
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:43,319
Speaker 3: That jokes and humor around women which made women laugh

664
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 3: also illustrated to the limited movement agency women had at

665
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 3: the time. Often female characters were written by men as

666
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 3: targets to be made fun of, mocked, and kept in

667
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 3: their place. In this way, women who made jos and

668
00:35:56,280 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 3: laughed could be viewed as somewhat subversive. And I will say,

669
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:03,279
Speaker 3: think about lay miss. The whole thing is a pretty

670
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 3: big tragedy. But the two funny characters was the woman

671
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:08,920
Speaker 3: who was essentially seen as a hag and then her

672
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 3: husband who they were both crooks essentially were the funny

673
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 3: bit to the entire movie. Everybody else was like, yeah, drama, drama, yes,

674
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 3: but those are the characters are seen being funny or

675
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 3: made fun of.

676
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:28,840
Speaker 2: Right English philosopher Thomas Hobbs, you'd laughing as a political

677
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:32,279
Speaker 2: tool and weapon. He wrote, quote men laugh at the

678
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:35,360
Speaker 2: infirmities of others, for when aes is broken upon ourselves,

679
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:37,839
Speaker 2: of friends, and whose dishonor we participate, we.

680
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:39,400
Speaker 1: Never laugh thereat.

681
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:43,320
Speaker 2: In puritanical New England, a woman laughing could be downright

682
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 2: and dangerous, sometimes believe to be a sign of her

683
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:50,760
Speaker 2: covenant with the devil, and particularly during times of prayer

684
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 2: are fasting. One such woman was Susan Martin. Records indicate

685
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 2: that she was executed not only for breastfeeding Satan with

686
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 2: her quote witch is tits, but also for laughing at

687
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 2: quote such falling during her trial. So I believe they

688
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:07,239
Speaker 2: told her this was her charge, and she laughs, and

689
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:11,280
Speaker 2: so they're like ah, which reminds me of The Bitch,

690
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 2: which we did a feminist movie Friday On. But the

691
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 2: way that movie ends is she sort of accepted being

692
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 2: a witch and being in Satan's govenant, I guess, and

693
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:22,800
Speaker 2: she's laughing, yeah.

694
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 3: I know, like in several of the movies I've seen,

695
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:31,720
Speaker 3: I can't remember like laughing equates to orgasm as well, yeah,

696
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 3: which is also a no no oh yeah, as well

697
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:38,280
Speaker 3: having a fit in hysteria and all that is somewhat

698
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:41,840
Speaker 3: related to laughter as one of those terms in itself,

699
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:45,799
Speaker 3: so that's interesting. Two women in Chicago were arrested in

700
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 3: eighteen ninety nine for laughing, and in the words of

701
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 3: a local newspaper, it says the trouble was caused by

702
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,399
Speaker 3: a new joke on the kissing bug. I love it,

703
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 3: what's the kissing bug? I know? With the arresting officer claiming,

704
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:02,839
Speaker 3: and then they both last so loud they awoke the

705
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:08,840
Speaker 3: entire neighborhood. However, the presiding justice was not impressed or concerned. Well,

706
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:10,920
Speaker 3: I guess it certainly is a joke to arrested person

707
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:17,200
Speaker 3: for laughing, and both women were discharged after that. But wow, wow,

708
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:18,400
Speaker 3: I just.

709
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 1: Don't want to know this joke about the kissing bug.

710
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 3: I need to know about this kissing bug.

711
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:23,319
Speaker 1: I know.

712
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 2: Etiquette vaniels around the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries instructed

713
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:30,879
Speaker 2: women to limit their laughter, that people would look down

714
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 2: on them for it, and that it was even potentially

715
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 2: dangerous a sign of female hysterics. A nineteen oh two

716
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:40,840
Speaker 2: obituary ran with the headline death from laughter, and it

717
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 2: described a woman who visited the theater to quote enjoy

718
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 2: a comedy and instead furnished a tragedy after she became

719
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 2: convulsed with merriment.

720
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:52,320
Speaker 3: Marriment even better.

721
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 1: Yes.

722
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 2: After a romantic suitor told a woman a joke in

723
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,319
Speaker 2: nineteen oh seven about dentistry, she couldn't stop laughing until

724
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 2: she was given some anesthetics. When she came to, she

725
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 2: said she couldn't remember the joke, and out of caution,

726
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:09,720
Speaker 2: no one told it to her. However, several articles claimed

727
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:12,320
Speaker 2: it win as follows. A man went to the dentist

728
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:14,840
Speaker 2: to have a toothpold and it hurt oh doctor. The

729
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:17,920
Speaker 2: patient said, if only humans were born without teeth, The

730
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:19,320
Speaker 2: doctor replied, they.

731
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 1: Are, you know, classic classic.

732
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,759
Speaker 2: Here's another example from nineteen oh eight. A widow named

733
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 2: Anna Farrer attended a dinner party where someone shared a

734
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,080
Speaker 2: funny joke with her. She started laughing so hard she

735
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:39,320
Speaker 2: was quote unable to stop the laughing paroxysm, and quote

736
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 2: died before a physician could be summoned. The joke wasn't

737
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:46,040
Speaker 2: printed for safety. Can you imagine being this person who

738
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:50,440
Speaker 2: told that joke really killed well, they didn't want anybody

739
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 2: else to read it and have the same reaction, which

740
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 2: reminds me of the Mony Fipop.

741
00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:58,919
Speaker 1: Skit the joke that kills, the killer joke.

742
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 2: Oh, it was like a World War Two skits where

743
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 2: the British Army just like, after months and months of

744
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 2: practicing and assembling a joke in many pieces so people

745
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:18,879
Speaker 2: wouldn't read it because it's dangerous In German, they constructed

746
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:22,239
Speaker 2: the perfect killer joke and they would go around. The

747
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:25,439
Speaker 2: soldiers would go around shouting it at German officers because

748
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 2: they didn't understand it so it wouldn't kill them, and

749
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 2: the German officers would.

750
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 1: Laugh and then drop dead. But then at the end.

751
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:34,200
Speaker 2: Of course they're like, all I want to hear this,

752
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:35,719
Speaker 2: so what's so good about it? And they say it

753
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:38,279
Speaker 2: in English and then they all die as well.

754
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 1: Die nice.

755
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:41,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, So that kind of reminds me of the Mary

756
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:44,800
Speaker 3: Popin scene where they're all laughing and they start floating

757
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:47,720
Speaker 3: because they can't stop laughing and they're talking about someone

758
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 3: floats away and they all tell jokes to each other.

759
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:53,480
Speaker 1: Yeah. I haven't seen that movie in so long, but

760
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:54,439
Speaker 1: I don't remind that.

761
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:57,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's so. A lot of these advice columns and

762
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:01,319
Speaker 3: cautionary tales were coming out more and more women were

763
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:05,320
Speaker 3: entering the public sphere and attending more public forms of

764
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 3: entertainment more regularly. So just so you know, ladies, laughing

765
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 3: can kill you, exactly.

766
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:18,399
Speaker 1: You better not do it. Better not now. Of note,

767
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:18,880
Speaker 1: there are.

768
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 2: Cases of men laughing at women, typically white women, in

769
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:24,839
Speaker 2: areas where their patronage was valuable, and men laughing at

770
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:28,360
Speaker 2: them made them feel unsafe and being arrested or ejected

771
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:31,439
Speaker 2: from public venue, so that did happen as well. Interestingly,

772
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:35,759
Speaker 2: women may have participated in highly derided sobbing clubs at

773
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 2: the time, and men's laughter was often seen as something

774
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 2: that was just or good in the face of their sniveling,

775
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 2: as it was called, and particularly laughing at entertainment geared

776
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:50,359
Speaker 2: towards women, which was incidentally where men were most likely

777
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 2: to be punished for it. Again, because people didn't want

778
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:55,160
Speaker 2: to lose the people who the patrons who were paying

779
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 2: to see these things, and in Puritanical America, laughing at

780
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 2: a tragedy was viewed as something akin to asin that

781
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 2: was real bad, a mind frame that carried over into

782
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 2: more modern times kind of relates to some of the

783
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:12,720
Speaker 2: stuff we've been talking about. During the late nineteenth century,

784
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 2: there was a spate of articles claiming that across the

785
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 2: country men were laughing blasphemously during church services, and some

786
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:21,400
Speaker 2: of them did get arrested.

787
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 3: You know, I'm thinking more and more about laughter being

788
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:27,279
Speaker 3: used like it's a sin, Like when you see demonic possessions,

789
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:30,719
Speaker 3: they're also laughing. And then I know that there are

790
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:34,279
Speaker 3: several diagnoses where they talk about inappropriate laughing because it

791
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:38,720
Speaker 3: doesn't fit the emotions. So therefore maybe they are ABC

792
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:43,800
Speaker 3: and CS of kind of sociopathic diagnoses, which start to

793
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:44,439
Speaker 3: thinking about that.

794
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So where we are now in our more

795
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 2: modern times, women's laughter is the subject of penalization and

796
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:56,280
Speaker 2: also a feminist thought.

797
00:42:56,480 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 3: Mm hm. So just in twenty seventeen, a code protester

798
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:04,680
Speaker 3: named Desiree Ferouse, sorry if I've mispronounced that, was arrested

799
00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 3: after laughing during the confirmation hearing for Jeff Sessions to

800
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:12,880
Speaker 3: become Attorney General after a Republican senator said that Sessions

801
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:17,640
Speaker 3: had quote an extensive record of treating all Americans fairly

802
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:20,799
Speaker 3: under the law, not gonna lie. I would laugh too,

803
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 3: She potentially faced a two thousand dollars fine and up

804
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:27,960
Speaker 3: to a year in jail, but the judge ultimately ruled

805
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:31,320
Speaker 3: that laughing was not adequate grounds for guilt. In that quote,

806
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:34,279
Speaker 3: it was disconcerting that the government made the case in

807
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:39,120
Speaker 3: closing arguments that the laughter in and of itself was sufficient. Yes,

808
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:43,800
Speaker 3: it is disconcerting. The government motion filed against her claimed

809
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:46,440
Speaker 3: that she was arrested because she sought to impede and

810
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:50,480
Speaker 3: disrupt then Senator sessions confirmation hearing by drawing attention away

811
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 3: from the hearing itself and directing it instead toward the

812
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 3: defendant's perception of the nominees racist views, policies, and voting record.

813
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 3: I'm not laughing because of the way he said, But

814
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:05,799
Speaker 3: I'm like, but it did, and all she did was laugh.

815
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 3: So for you to take that as that thinks again,

816
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 3: says more about you, whoever file these charges, than it

817
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:14,960
Speaker 3: is us about her.

818
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 2: Professor of law the University of Michigan, Catherine A. McKinnon

819
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:24,360
Speaker 2: wrote of this incident, criminally charging and potentially sentencing missus

820
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:27,520
Speaker 2: Eru's for a brief spontaneous injection of political laughter as

821
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:31,200
Speaker 2: disruptive when it at least so clearly was not looks

822
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:33,759
Speaker 2: like an overly thin skin reflex reaction to a woman

823
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 2: appropriating what is usually a masculine form of power, ridicule,

824
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:40,440
Speaker 2: public humiliation by humor, and in this case, political speech

825
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:45,960
Speaker 2: against racism. Of note, the Trump administration was a repeated

826
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 2: offender and punisher.

827
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:48,400
Speaker 1: Of women mocking Trump.

828
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:52,280
Speaker 2: Take their reaction to Melissa McCarthy impersonating Sean Spicer.

829
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:56,160
Speaker 3: They just flipped out so angry, they were so so

830
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:58,759
Speaker 3: angry of all of snl made me laugh.

831
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:00,080
Speaker 1: But that's also true.

832
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:03,239
Speaker 3: Yes, this is somewhat reminiscent of a scene from the

833
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 3: nineteen eighty two film A Question of Silence, when three

834
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:10,720
Speaker 3: women laugh loudly and brashly at their own murder trial,

835
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:13,600
Speaker 3: mostly at the premise presented that they lived in a

836
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 3: post sexist society that were on trial after exhiberantly murdering

837
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:22,120
Speaker 3: a shopkeeper who harassed a female shoplifter. The Question of

838
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:24,719
Speaker 3: Silence is a reference to the idea that the marginalized

839
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 3: don't have a voice in the face of a continued injustices,

840
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:31,080
Speaker 3: so defiant laughter is one way of sticking it to

841
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 3: the man and disrupting the status quo. Like I said,

842
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 3: I knew what would make my brother angry, and that

843
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:38,000
Speaker 3: was just laughing.

844
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:41,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, this movie sounds interesting. I had never heard

845
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:43,840
Speaker 2: of it, but I want to check it out now.

846
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:46,759
Speaker 2: And there have been cases of women being arrested and

847
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:50,840
Speaker 2: jailed for disrespecting the dead throughout history as well.

848
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 1: And of course there.

849
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:56,480
Speaker 2: Is and has been intersections with racism, homophobia, and ableism.

850
00:45:57,320 --> 00:45:59,719
Speaker 2: In eighteen ninety eight, the black newspaper The Washington b

851
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:02,120
Speaker 2: wrote it is against the law for a black person

852
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 2: to laugh at a policeman in the street. The following year,

853
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:08,080
Speaker 2: a black woman named Louisa Roberts was fined two dollars

854
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:11,840
Speaker 2: and quote patrolman Hutchinson arrested her for assassing some white women.

855
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:15,680
Speaker 2: Ralph Ellison wrote of a Southern mythology around the quote

856
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:18,440
Speaker 2: laughing barrel of public barrel that black people were meant

857
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:19,880
Speaker 2: to put their head in when they fell at a

858
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:22,480
Speaker 2: laugh coming on. In his essay and Extravagance of Laughter,

859
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:26,440
Speaker 2: he wrote of the power of laughter quote grotesque comedy,

860
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:28,360
Speaker 2: out of the extremes to which whites would go to

861
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:30,800
Speaker 2: keep us in what they considered to be our police.

862
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 3: These attitudes and discrimination continue to this day. In twenty fifteen,

863
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:39,040
Speaker 3: a group of eleven black women were ejected from a

864
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:43,160
Speaker 3: Napa Valley wine train for laughing too loudly, which led

865
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 3: to the hashtag laughing wild Black. I remember this because

866
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:51,440
Speaker 3: they made this huge scene just because they were enjoying

867
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 3: their time, to the point that even other women were like,

868
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:58,960
Speaker 3: what are they doing. They're at a bachelorette party, nothing's wrong.

869
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:00,760
Speaker 3: Why are you in them off?

870
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:01,319
Speaker 4: Right?

871
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:05,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a wine tree tour.

872
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:08,799
Speaker 3: Everybody's drinking and giggling like that's not a bad thing.

873
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:12,839
Speaker 3: That means they had a good time. I mean, why, yes, right.

874
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:15,440
Speaker 2: At the same time, there's also a long history of

875
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 2: using black laughter and minstrel shows to reassure white audiences

876
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:24,120
Speaker 2: that there was no resentment or danger from black folks.

877
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 3: Right, you know, that's kind of that conversation of trying

878
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 3: to make white people feel comfortable. So therefore, I'm like,

879
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:34,360
Speaker 3: you know, deprivating comments about being Asian to make the

880
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:36,800
Speaker 3: white people in the room okay, And to the point

881
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 3: that someone was like, oh, you're one of those Asians. Cool,

882
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:41,920
Speaker 3: that's exactly what you said to me, And I was

883
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:45,440
Speaker 3: like what. And I think that was the moment I

884
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:47,279
Speaker 3: realized what I did. I was like, oh, I have

885
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:51,879
Speaker 3: given them permission to be outwardly racist to me crap.

886
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:57,359
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, yeah, And then there's also been a lot

887
00:47:57,360 --> 00:47:59,920
Speaker 2: of conversation and judgment around the gay voice and related

888
00:47:59,880 --> 00:48:04,360
Speaker 2: the gay laugh. That could be and probably will be

889
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:07,080
Speaker 2: its own episode, but that is also a piece of this.

890
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:08,960
Speaker 2: And then yes, going back to the joke or there's

891
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 2: ableism going on as well in this conversation, as well

892
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 2: as a very clear anxiety of people laughing at the

893
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:23,040
Speaker 2: wrong moment, which, as we've discussed throughout this whole episode, there's.

894
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:25,520
Speaker 1: So many reasons for why that might be. Right.

895
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:29,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, So all of this points to a history of

896
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:33,000
Speaker 2: censoring women's laughter and the laughter of marginalized groups. It

897
00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:35,480
Speaker 2: also points to a history of people finding joy in

898
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:40,080
Speaker 2: the face of trauma and discrimination and depression. Even thinking

899
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:43,919
Speaker 2: about feminism specifically, there's numerous examples of you know, yes,

900
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:47,399
Speaker 2: women aren't funny, feminist buzzkill, can't you take a joke?

901
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:51,480
Speaker 2: Things like that, As was so many things we talk about.

902
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:55,160
Speaker 2: It's such a double edged thing because if you laugh,

903
00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:58,759
Speaker 2: then you might get punished for laughing at the wrong

904
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:02,040
Speaker 2: time or offending a man or hurting his ego. If

905
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:04,760
Speaker 2: you don't laugh at their jokes or what they find funny,

906
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 2: then you're a buzzkill.

907
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:08,880
Speaker 1: You can't take a joke, or you're cold and frigid

908
00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:09,280
Speaker 1: or whatever.

909
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:12,719
Speaker 2: It is. One thing we didn't get into that we'd

910
00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:15,600
Speaker 2: love to hear from listeners about is cultural differences in laughing.

911
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:18,239
Speaker 2: There are a lot of articles around all of this

912
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:22,840
Speaker 2: out of Indian specifically Bollywood, which was really interesting, including

913
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:26,560
Speaker 2: this quote laughter strips the object of power and gives

914
00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:29,040
Speaker 2: power to the one who laughs. When stand up comics

915
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:30,680
Speaker 2: make fun of someone or something, their jokes are in

916
00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:33,799
Speaker 2: effect criticism and mockery, highlighting a social issue or a

917
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:37,520
Speaker 2: family reality. There's so much too unpack with all of this,

918
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:39,560
Speaker 2: because again there is a line like there are jokes

919
00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:41,400
Speaker 2: you can make and jokes you can't.

920
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:42,680
Speaker 1: Are definitely should it.

921
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:47,600
Speaker 2: But yes, it is like a way to express defiance

922
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:50,600
Speaker 2: in the face of oppression, for sure, and I think

923
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:54,680
Speaker 2: that's why it does. It does have this history of

924
00:49:54,760 --> 00:50:00,480
Speaker 2: being punished when marginalized people do it at what people

925
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:05,960
Speaker 2: in power see is the quote wrong time? Yeah, all

926
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:10,200
Speaker 2: of that into so much as always I was, this

927
00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:14,200
Speaker 2: is a fastening one to research. Yeah, and listeners We

928
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:18,920
Speaker 2: would love to hear from you any cultural differences you've noticed,

929
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:21,399
Speaker 2: or gender differences you've noticed, anything at all like that,

930
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:24,360
Speaker 2: You can email us. Our email is Stuffidia mom Stuff

931
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:27,000
Speaker 2: at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on Twitter

932
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:29,080
Speaker 2: at mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram. A Stuff I've

933
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:31,720
Speaker 2: Never Told You Thanks as always here at super producer Christina,

934
00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:35,319
Speaker 2: thank you and thanks to you for listening Stuff I've

935
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:36,799
Speaker 2: Never Told You, a production of iHeartRadio.

936
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:38,960
Speaker 1: For more podcasts on iHeartRadio, is the heart Radio

937
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:50,759
Speaker 2: App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,