WEBVTT - 10. Phantasm 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:03.760 This episode contains graphic depictions of violence that listeners may 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:15.000 find disturbing. Listener discretion is advised. January thirty one, two 0:00:15.000 --> 0:00:19.320 thousand and eight, nearly two hundred days after Snay had disappeared, 0:00:19.480 --> 0:00:23.000 her mom on suit gets an email. She opens it, 0:00:23.480 --> 0:00:27.680 reads it, her stomach starts to hurt. Her daughter is 0:00:27.720 --> 0:00:31.760 a nine eleven hero. Finally, in a four to one decision, 0:00:32.040 --> 0:00:35.000 the New York State Supreme Courts Appellate Division rules that 0:00:35.080 --> 0:00:38.760 Snayhow died at the World Trade Center. The court overturns 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:41.680 an earlier decision by Judge Rene Roth, who said the 0:00:41.680 --> 0:00:44.560 theory that Snayhow died at the Trade Center was quote 0:00:44.960 --> 0:00:49.320 rank speculation with absolutely no foundation in the record. This 0:00:49.440 --> 0:00:54.240 court disagrees quote only the rankest speculation leads to any 0:00:54.240 --> 0:00:57.640 conclusion other than nine eleven. So this is how it 0:00:57.760 --> 0:01:01.240 ends in court, at least, dueling judges a battle of 0:01:01.240 --> 0:01:05.000 the speculations, rank speculation that saying How died at the 0:01:05.040 --> 0:01:09.680 Trade Center versus rank kissed speculation that any other explanation 0:01:09.760 --> 0:01:14.200 makes sense. Maybe this seems like semantics, but really it's 0:01:14.240 --> 0:01:16.280 the heart of the show, the heart of this case, 0:01:16.640 --> 0:01:20.600 because in the absence of evidence, every single explanation, including 0:01:20.680 --> 0:01:26.320 nine eleven, requires speculation. No speculation, no closure, no answers 0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:31.080 at all. In a dissenting opinion, Justice Bernard J. Malone wrote, quote, 0:01:31.400 --> 0:01:34.120 since it is not known where the decedent spent the 0:01:34.240 --> 0:01:38.520 night of September, it requires speculation to say that her 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:42.840 route home took her across or dangerously near the World 0:01:42.840 --> 0:01:46.920 Trade Center grounds, or that when the attacks began she 0:01:47.080 --> 0:01:50.320 was even in the vicinity of the World Trade Center. 0:01:50.880 --> 0:01:55.120 And it is equally probable, in light of evidence concerning 0:01:55.120 --> 0:01:59.160 her professional and personal problems, that the decedent died on 0:01:59.360 --> 0:02:04.920 or about September eleven one by some other unfortunate fate. 0:02:10.960 --> 0:02:13.960 From my Heart Radio, this is missing on nine eleven, 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:16.720 the story of one woman who vanished on the eve 0:02:16.760 --> 0:02:20.160 of history and my quest to find her. I'm your host, 0:02:20.440 --> 0:02:51.919 John Wallzac. I understand that nine eleven makes intuitive sense. 0:02:52.200 --> 0:02:55.440 A comes razor, right, but take emotion out of this case, 0:02:55.760 --> 0:02:59.119 take away the desire to manufacture a hero. Does nine 0:02:59.160 --> 0:03:03.000 eleven really makes sense? I'd say no, or at the 0:03:03.080 --> 0:03:06.760 very least, it's not an instant, irrefutable answer. Look at 0:03:06.760 --> 0:03:12.720 the facts. Fact snay has DNA was never recovered. Fact 0:03:13.320 --> 0:03:19.480 of civilians at the Trade Center below the impact zones escaped. Fact. 0:03:19.800 --> 0:03:23.760 Debris killed very few people before the towers fell. Fact, 0:03:24.120 --> 0:03:28.400 there were hundreds of cops, firefighters, and paramedics on site quickly, 0:03:28.840 --> 0:03:32.200 within minutes. Snay Ha wasn't needed even if she wanted 0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:35.320 to help. Thousands of people with minor injuries flowed out 0:03:35.320 --> 0:03:38.360 of the towers into nearby triage areas where she could 0:03:38.400 --> 0:03:41.320 have volunteered, where she likely would have been directed by 0:03:41.360 --> 0:03:46.360 firefighters and paramedics. Fact. No eyewitnesses saw a petite, beautiful 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:49.440 woman in a brown dress and sandals running into the towers. 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:54.160 Fact no photographs or videos show SNA on nine eleven 0:03:54.280 --> 0:03:57.960 at or near the Trade Center. So let's dig deeper, 0:03:58.280 --> 0:04:02.160 piece by piece. First, d n A. There are two thousand, 0:04:02.240 --> 0:04:07.000 seven hundred and fifty three Trade Center victims have been identified, 0:04:07.320 --> 0:04:11.800 mostly by DNA, but also via dental X rays, fingerprints, photos, 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:16.440 personal effects, tattoos, etcetera. For twenty years, the New York 0:04:16.480 --> 0:04:19.680 City Office of Chief Medical Examiner or o CME has 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:24.400 led a herculean effort to identify victims. That effort continues today. 0:04:24.440 --> 0:04:27.240 Earlier this year, I sat down in Tribeca with Mark 0:04:27.320 --> 0:04:31.279 desire the O c m S Assistant Director of Forensic Biology. 0:04:31.320 --> 0:04:36.640 On that frigid day January, nearly four thousand Americans died 0:04:36.640 --> 0:04:39.880 of COVID, a greater death hole than nine eleven. We 0:04:39.920 --> 0:04:43.320 sat with masks on windows, open, cold air flowing in 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:46.960 as dark fell. An interview about one mass casualty event 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:50.680 during another on nine eleven, Mark got to the trade 0:04:50.720 --> 0:04:53.320 center right after the planes hit. We pulled right on 0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:55.200 the vesse. There's an open spot. We pulled on a 0:04:55.279 --> 0:04:57.440 vest which is right in the shadow of the North 0:04:57.480 --> 0:05:00.280 tower where debris were falling. We got out of the truck. 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:04.159 It wasn't more than probably five seconds. Victim had fell 0:05:04.560 --> 0:05:06.280 right in front of us. You know, I'm not gonna 0:05:06.279 --> 0:05:08.279 say jump er. I don't know if they jumped, but 0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:10.479 they fell right in front of us. And it was 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:13.080 this part of our job. With one of the dead, 0:05:13.080 --> 0:05:15.160 we tagger, we collect a sample. We're sort of We 0:05:15.200 --> 0:05:17.200 still had to find our chief. Our chief was down there, 0:05:17.560 --> 0:05:20.000 but we got out of that. The fire depart made 0:05:20.040 --> 0:05:21.960 sure by screaming at us to get the hell out 0:05:21.960 --> 0:05:24.560 of that that circle around the tower, because that's where 0:05:24.560 --> 0:05:27.520 all you were. People were being killed, debris and people 0:05:27.560 --> 0:05:30.280 falling out of the upper floors were killing those on 0:05:30.279 --> 0:05:33.080 the on the streets. So we made her away away 0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:35.400 from that. And I remember there was this old fire 0:05:35.480 --> 0:05:38.880 chief there. It looked like Sam Elliott if I had 0:05:38.880 --> 0:05:41.760 the big mustache and like the leather, and he was 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:45.080 just stare at the top and I'm watching people hitting 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:47.200 the concrete and he's like, they're burning to death up there. 0:05:47.279 --> 0:05:49.599 He goes, you you burn to death or you you 0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:51.680 jump out and you get at least ten more seconds 0:05:51.720 --> 0:05:54.039 of living. I'm like, man, then I knew. I'm like, 0:05:54.120 --> 0:05:56.760 this is one of those days that is going to 0:05:56.920 --> 0:06:01.320 change your life and career and everything. Mark found his boss, Dr. 0:06:01.440 --> 0:06:04.680 Charles Hirsch at the corner of Liberty and West. So 0:06:04.800 --> 0:06:08.400 his has his back to the South Tower and I'm 0:06:08.400 --> 0:06:12.320 watching people drop and hit and I'm hearing him go 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:16.360 through glass and hitting sounds like Saint Lando on a vehicle. 0:06:16.520 --> 0:06:18.960 And there are two people holding hands, and there's and 0:06:19.080 --> 0:06:20.920 you look at the ground, there's just the brain ors. 0:06:20.960 --> 0:06:23.600 I'm like, wow, this is this is And he had said, Yah, 0:06:23.600 --> 0:06:26.440 there's people up to two blocks away. I took about 0:06:26.480 --> 0:06:30.240 one step away in the South tower cracked right there 0:06:30.279 --> 0:06:33.799 within stone's throw of where we were standing. South Tower 0:06:33.839 --> 0:06:36.719 cracked and you just saw that top of the building 0:06:36.800 --> 0:06:40.120 and the steel and the fire just right over top 0:06:40.160 --> 0:06:42.160 of us. And I'm like, I'm dead. This is how 0:06:42.160 --> 0:06:45.320 I'm going to die. Mark ran across West. You really 0:06:45.320 --> 0:06:47.520 don't see it in the in that big mushroom, but 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:49.760 there are bullets coming out of that and they were 0:06:49.880 --> 0:06:52.760 they're hitting, and I mean shot would be guns. Before 0:06:52.800 --> 0:06:54.760 I'm like, oh, that's that's going in. You could feel 0:06:54.760 --> 0:06:57.720 them hit your head. So I put my arms up 0:06:57.720 --> 0:06:59.960 and I was still trying to run, and it was 0:07:00.000 --> 0:07:04.560 almost like a warm like draft and wham that debris 0:07:04.600 --> 0:07:07.240 as it came down. You know, realize it comes down. 0:07:07.240 --> 0:07:09.800 So if you're running, kind of like pits across the 0:07:09.840 --> 0:07:12.040 street and hit right in the ass, right, and he 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:14.720 asked by I could tell as a piece of rebar 0:07:14.840 --> 0:07:18.840 and from the X ray the next day, I got hit. 0:07:18.920 --> 0:07:21.720 But let's say, let's say in my life that pushed 0:07:21.720 --> 0:07:22.920 me the rest of the way into the building. I 0:07:22.920 --> 0:07:24.400 didn't make the door the doors right here, but I 0:07:24.400 --> 0:07:26.600 went to the window and my arms were already up 0:07:27.120 --> 0:07:29.760 from the sting, and so my elbows and my head 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:33.160 also broke the glass I wasn't that far in though. 0:07:33.200 --> 0:07:35.880 My bottom of my legs were still hanging out. And 0:07:35.920 --> 0:07:37.800 as the debris hit the building and fell, it fell 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:40.240 across my last shattered, shattered my foot. I didn't make 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:42.960 it all the way in. I crawled in. It was 0:07:43.040 --> 0:07:47.880 the darkest, quietest time I've very experienced. All that dust 0:07:48.400 --> 0:07:51.560 made a pitch black, it softened, there was no sounds. 0:07:51.600 --> 0:07:54.200 In a for a second, I'm like, I'm just supposed 0:07:54.200 --> 0:07:56.360 to be I'm dead, right, this is like being dead, 0:07:56.520 --> 0:07:59.720 completely dark and quiet. I didn't feel it any pain 0:07:59.840 --> 0:08:02.520 or I don't even know I was even injured. Then I, 0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:05.600 for the first time that morning, I panicked because I 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:07.880 try to do this. I try to go take a 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:09.840 big book. At that point, I was still hold my breath. 0:08:10.000 --> 0:08:14.280 I was running, hold my breath. Hit smack glass, holding 0:08:14.320 --> 0:08:17.720 my breath, dark, crawl in and I got to take 0:08:17.720 --> 0:08:19.760 a big breath after holding your breath for a minute 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:22.640 or so. Oh, and there was no air. There was nothing, 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:25.880 absolutely like like trying to breathe under water. And then 0:08:25.920 --> 0:08:29.560 I started panicking, gasping right, I said, hold, so maybe 0:08:29.600 --> 0:08:31.360 if I get into the building. I just ran into 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:34.680 the darkness, bumping into stuff as it thust started settling. 0:08:35.120 --> 0:08:37.320 Pull my shirt up, I could read a little more. 0:08:37.640 --> 0:08:41.640 Come down right, I'm not gonna die. Despite his shattered foot, 0:08:41.960 --> 0:08:44.160 Mark had a ton of work to do. He and 0:08:44.200 --> 0:08:47.160 the rest of the o CMME team recovered and identified 0:08:47.280 --> 0:08:51.120 thousands of bodies and body parts without being too graphic. 0:08:51.160 --> 0:08:54.480 Are you talking about bones, teeth, pieces of flesh? What 0:08:54.520 --> 0:08:57.000 are you talking when you say human remains beyond the bone? 0:08:57.480 --> 0:09:00.800 Every possible thing you can think of. Yeah, there were 0:09:00.920 --> 0:09:06.280 um limbs, there were organs, hair, There's a lot of fire, 0:09:06.520 --> 0:09:09.720 So tissue, blood, hair is not going to survive the fire. 0:09:10.120 --> 0:09:12.040 You're only going to have remains and teeth. Teeth are 0:09:12.080 --> 0:09:15.439 the hardest part of your body will survive just about anything. 0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:19.360 I've had cremated remains where there was still teeth that 0:09:19.400 --> 0:09:22.680 we've been able to generate DNA profiles from. So bone 0:09:22.800 --> 0:09:25.439 can survive and and even though the outside of the 0:09:25.480 --> 0:09:28.600 bone maybe charred and burn, but the inside might be protected. 0:09:28.600 --> 0:09:31.000 So that's where we go where the marrow is to 0:09:31.320 --> 0:09:34.760 generate a DNA profile. We've gotten plenty of DNA profile, 0:09:34.880 --> 0:09:39.240 especially in two thousand one, from from blood, from from muscle, 0:09:39.679 --> 0:09:43.440 you know, from organs, given the brutality of nine eleven, 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:46.959 what Mark and his team accomplished is astounding. What are 0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:52.920 things that destroy DNA? Heat and fire, water, sunlight, mold, bacteria, 0:09:53.480 --> 0:09:58.440 nasty chemicals like jet fuel, diesel fuel. Everything that destroys 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:00.920 DNA was present at ground zero. So this is the 0:10:01.000 --> 0:10:05.640 toughest forensic investigation, the toughest body idea. I've I've had 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:08.840 scientists from all over the world something that have done 0:10:08.880 --> 0:10:12.520 like UM some projects you've probably heard about the Iceman 0:10:12.640 --> 0:10:15.160 that they found frozen in the bog or some ancient 0:10:15.920 --> 0:10:20.720 um neanderthal remains from thousands of years ago, tens of thousands. 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:23.520 That's a pretty tough material. I've brought them in and say, hey, 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:27.000 you've been successful with neanderthal bones and gotten DNA two 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:29.640 thousand year old mummies. We want to learn from you. 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:31.840 And and they look at our samples and they try, 0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:34.160 and they're like, this is worse. The world Trade centers 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:38.720 a thousand times harder than than any Wow. Mark's team 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:42.200 also sifted through remains from ancient cemeteries below the trade 0:10:42.200 --> 0:10:46.120 center site and thousands of animal bones from destroyed restaurants 0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:50.480 and incinerated office bridges, recovering DNA was only half the battle, though. 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:54.679 Mark also needed reference samples to match DNA to victims. 0:10:54.679 --> 0:10:57.880 So World Trade Center we have seventeen thousand reference samples, 0:10:57.880 --> 0:11:02.920 seventeen thousand toothbrushes and razors and brushes, and samples from 0:11:02.960 --> 0:11:06.040 moms and dads and sons and daughters and brothers and sisters. 0:11:06.040 --> 0:11:11.040 Seventeen thousand samples, which is are called the anti mortem. 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:12.839 You know, this is stuff from when you were alive. 0:11:12.880 --> 0:11:15.480 I have a toothbrush from when Mark was alive. Let's 0:11:15.480 --> 0:11:18.360 take DNA from that toothbrush and compared to these remains, 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:22.760 because they might be Mark. Without those reference samples. Without 0:11:22.800 --> 0:11:26.480 that anti mortem, you not identify anybody. The post bortom 0:11:26.520 --> 0:11:28.680 side is what you take after you die, so you 0:11:28.720 --> 0:11:31.760 need to equally important. So we have all this information 0:11:32.040 --> 0:11:37.080 from all these thousands of toothbrushes and combs and anything. 0:11:37.240 --> 0:11:42.800 Family members brought to us some very interesting things, including 0:11:43.000 --> 0:11:45.640 a victim's prayer card, the blood of a victim who 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:49.000 cut himself while working on an aquarium right before nine eleven, 0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:52.240 and a thirty three year old umbilical cord, but most 0:11:52.280 --> 0:11:57.320 samples came from family members, including Snayhouse parents. Ultimately, Mark's 0:11:57.320 --> 0:12:00.640 team identified one thousand, six and forty two out of 0:12:00.679 --> 0:12:05.280 two thousand, seven hundred and fifty three victims, but not 0:12:05.400 --> 0:12:10.200 snay Haw. Now, let's look at where victims died and 0:12:10.240 --> 0:12:14.040 why it matters. In two thousand five, the National Institute 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:17.880 of Standards and Technology or NIST, released a detailed report 0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:21.960 on the Trade Center disaster. Jason Avril, a fire protection engineer, 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:27.319 led the team that examined occupant behavior, evacuation, and emergency communications. 0:12:27.800 --> 0:12:31.560 So the goals of my project were to understand how, where, 0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:36.640 and why the people died or successfully evacuated were their 0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:39.920 factors relating to the design and the building, the design 0:12:39.920 --> 0:12:43.720 of the ego system that contributed to success your failure. 0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:49.520 Jason has not only scientific expertise, but also personal experience 0:12:49.559 --> 0:12:54.319 with an air disaster. In his dad, Daniel, died when 0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:58.959 US air flight crashed near Pittsburgh. Jason was in college 0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:02.680 at the time. That experience guided him during the Trade 0:13:02.679 --> 0:13:07.400 Center investigation, especially as the interviewed traumatized survivors and victim 0:13:07.400 --> 0:13:11.000 family members. Jason's work and that of hundreds of other 0:13:11.080 --> 0:13:14.400 NEST experts led to more than forty building code changes, 0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:18.520 things like requiring photo luminescent markington stairs in case the 0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:22.760 lights go out to save lives, steering future disasters, Jason's 0:13:22.800 --> 0:13:26.840 team found that on nine eleven of civilians below the 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:30.960 impact zones where the planes hit the towers successfully evacuated. 0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:35.720 To be clear, the study came out while Snayhouse case 0:13:35.800 --> 0:13:38.080 was winding its way through court, before she was an 0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:41.240 official victim. It did not include snay and some of 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:44.880 the data is estimated and imprecise, but the overall picture 0:13:45.040 --> 0:13:48.679 is clear. One thousand, nine hundred and seventy four civilians 0:13:48.800 --> 0:13:52.120 died at or above the points of impact, one, forty 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:56.760 eight died below, twenty four somewhere unspecified, one and forty 0:13:56.840 --> 0:14:01.439 seven on the planes, eighteen were bystanders nearby building occupants 0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:04.559 killed by debris and or jet fuel, and for seventeen 0:14:04.720 --> 0:14:08.720 there was no information. Four d one first responders also 0:14:08.800 --> 0:14:11.880 died four hundred and three of whom worked for the NYPD, 0:14:12.280 --> 0:14:15.959 f D, n Y or Port Authority, plus two federal employees, 0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:22.120 seven hospital employees and or paramedics, and nine volunteers. The 0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:24.600 first theory about snay Haa is that she ran into 0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:27.480 the towers to help and died, but only two percent 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:32.240 of first responder fatalities were volunteers two percent. The second 0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:34.320 is that stay Hall was in the towers for some 0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:37.920 other reason, maybe shopping, but only one percent of civilians 0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:42.480 below the impact zones died on the third is that 0:14:42.520 --> 0:14:45.080 snay Hall was killed by debris or jet fuel while 0:14:45.120 --> 0:14:49.120 walking home, but only eighteen victims were bystanders or occupants 0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:52.600 of nearby buildings point o o seven percent of nearly 0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:57.560 three thousand victims two percent, one percent, point o o 0:14:57.720 --> 0:15:03.080 seven percent. So is it possible that Snayhow died while volunteering, shopping, 0:15:03.280 --> 0:15:08.400 or walking home. Yes, but it's extremely and demonstrably unlikely. 0:15:33.880 --> 0:15:37.120 We've looked at DNA and we're victims. Sighed, what about 0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:41.440 just basic logic theory number one? Snayhow ran into the 0:15:41.480 --> 0:15:45.440 towers and died on the surface. It clicks, but dig 0:15:45.440 --> 0:15:49.400 in and it doesn't make sense. The first firefighters reached 0:15:49.440 --> 0:15:52.280 the trade center only four minutes after the first plane. 0:15:52.720 --> 0:15:57.160 Hundreds of other firefighters, cops, and paramedics followed quickly. A 0:15:57.240 --> 0:16:00.840 civilian doctor without supplies would not have been needed after say, 0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:03.600 five to ten minutes, and even if snay Haa was 0:16:03.640 --> 0:16:06.400 near the towers and wanted to help, she likely would 0:16:06.400 --> 0:16:09.240 have been directed to a nearby triage area or hospital 0:16:09.400 --> 0:16:11.760 out of the danger zone, or she could have helped 0:16:11.800 --> 0:16:14.240 any of the thousands of people with minor injuries like 0:16:14.360 --> 0:16:18.840 lacerations the walking wounded. Most victims had either minor injuries 0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:21.960 or they died a few fell in between. The number 0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:24.400 of victims in the lobbies alive but unable to walk, 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:28.400 for example, was minimal. Here's the other thing. Seventy three 0:16:28.440 --> 0:16:31.280 minutes passed between the first plane strike and the collapse 0:16:31.320 --> 0:16:34.520 of the first tower. It's unlikely that snayhow lingered in 0:16:34.560 --> 0:16:36.840 the towers or would have been allowed to linger for 0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:42.080 up to seventy three minutes as civilians escaped. Theory number 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:45.400 two snayho was shopping in the mall underneath the towers 0:16:45.720 --> 0:16:47.760 or on her way to Windows on the World on 0:16:47.800 --> 0:16:50.920 top of the North tower when the attacks began. This 0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:54.040 doesn't make sense either. Ron told a reporter that he 0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:56.560 and snay Haa never went to the trade center, that 0:16:56.680 --> 0:16:59.080 she had no reason to be there, and even if 0:16:59.120 --> 0:17:01.040 she was shopping in the all, she would have had 0:17:01.080 --> 0:17:04.439 ample time to evacuate. In terms of Windows on the World, 0:17:04.720 --> 0:17:07.400 snayhouse family posited that she wanted to scope it out 0:17:07.480 --> 0:17:10.359 and advanced of a friend's wedding reception. But the wedding 0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:13.119 wasn't set to take place until April two thousand two, 0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:16.439 seven months later. And if walking home on nine eleven 0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:19.000 after a night out, why would stay how log too 0:17:19.000 --> 0:17:22.160 heavy shopping bags to the top of a skyscraper without 0:17:22.240 --> 0:17:26.360 first stopping at her apartment only nine feet away. Finally, 0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:29.240 that presumes she walked home and didn't take a cab. 0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:33.760 Theory number three. While walking home, snay Hall was hit 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:36.800 by debris or jet fuel, but out of nearly three 0:17:36.840 --> 0:17:41.600 thousand victims, only eighteen were bystanders or occupants of nearby buildings. 0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:45.679 Is it possible snay Hall was the nineteenth Yes, but 0:17:45.920 --> 0:17:48.440 if debris hit her, it's unlikely she would have laid 0:17:48.440 --> 0:17:51.320 in the street until the towers fell. Most victims hit 0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:54.040 by debris or jet fuel were pulled off the street 0:17:54.200 --> 0:17:57.239 and taken to hospitals. Is it possible that snay Hall 0:17:57.359 --> 0:18:00.439 was crossing between the towers through the plaza, not on 0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:05.320 the street, at the exact moment the first plane hit again, Yes, technically, 0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:11.600 but is it likely Theory number four. On September, attended 0:18:11.600 --> 0:18:14.119 a party at a hotel next to the trade center, 0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:17.560 presumably the Marriott between the towers, hosted by the city's 0:18:17.560 --> 0:18:20.760 South Asian community. She stayed to night, even though she 0:18:20.840 --> 0:18:23.879 lived only nine feet away, and died the next day. 0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:27.280 This theory was put forth by snayhouse older brother Ashwyn. 0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:29.720 I have no idea where he got it. It doesn't 0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:32.400 make sense, and I found no evidence of any South 0:18:32.440 --> 0:18:36.120 Asian party on a Monday night anywhere in the city, 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:39.800 let alone near or between the towers. Nonetheless, for the 0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:42.359 sake of due diligence, I reached out to a woman 0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:45.280 named Doreen Dunn, who worked at the Marriott World Trade 0:18:45.280 --> 0:18:49.600 Center from until nine eleven. I was an event manager, 0:18:49.680 --> 0:18:54.520 so I dealt with meetings, some weddings, you know, conferences, 0:18:54.600 --> 0:18:57.840 that kind of thing, and what I did was planned 0:18:57.840 --> 0:19:01.120 all the details of the event. Dorene got to work 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:04.320 between seven thirty and eight am on nine eleven. An 0:19:04.320 --> 0:19:11.359 hour later, we heard a huge noise, like really loud noise. 0:19:11.720 --> 0:19:14.520 Are lights in the office flashed for a second but 0:19:14.640 --> 0:19:18.280 came back on and I ran. We had a window. 0:19:18.440 --> 0:19:21.280 I was on the third floor. I had a window, 0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:24.800 so I looked out on the street and there at 0:19:24.840 --> 0:19:28.160 the same time, there was like a ten car accident. 0:19:28.240 --> 0:19:30.760 Like then everyone must have heard it and people weren't 0:19:30.800 --> 0:19:34.280 paying attention, and all of these cars just hit each other. 0:19:35.080 --> 0:19:38.240 And I remember there was a there was construction, and 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:42.880 the construction person he just started picking up his cones 0:19:42.920 --> 0:19:46.359 like really quick. So I thought he did something because 0:19:46.400 --> 0:19:48.960 I had no idea, you know, that's something that would 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:52.119 ever happened. And then we could see, you know, things 0:19:52.160 --> 0:19:55.800 falling from the sky, and we just knew it was 0:19:55.880 --> 0:20:00.439 something bad. I asked Dorene what she remembers about September tenth. 0:20:00.760 --> 0:20:03.360 Did the hotel host the party for the city South 0:20:03.400 --> 0:20:07.520 Asian community. I don't remember really anything going on in 0:20:07.600 --> 0:20:11.960 the hotel. Like Monday's were usually because we were a 0:20:12.000 --> 0:20:15.600 business hotel, everything would start like on a Tuesday. People, 0:20:15.640 --> 0:20:18.160 you know, because most of the time people didn't want 0:20:18.200 --> 0:20:21.600 to travel on their personal time, so like a lot 0:20:21.640 --> 0:20:24.440 of the groups would arrive on Monday and then their 0:20:24.480 --> 0:20:28.159 event would start on Tuesday. So Mondays were kind of 0:20:28.280 --> 0:20:31.760 usually a pretty mellow day in my department. But I 0:20:31.840 --> 0:20:38.280 don't remember that. So we've looked at DNA where victims 0:20:38.280 --> 0:20:44.119 died and logic next eyewitnesses, photos and videos. The first 0:20:44.240 --> 0:20:47.399 is easy in twenty years, no one has come forward 0:20:47.400 --> 0:20:50.560 to say they remember a petite, beautiful Indian American woman 0:20:50.720 --> 0:20:53.720 in a brown dress and sandals running into the towers. 0:20:54.119 --> 0:20:57.679 I searched oral histories and spoke to authors, but found nothing. 0:20:58.400 --> 0:21:01.480 The second is more complicated. It's been said that nine 0:21:01.480 --> 0:21:04.639 eleven was the most photographed event in history, but the 0:21:04.720 --> 0:21:07.960 vast majority of photos and videos were captured at a distance. 0:21:08.359 --> 0:21:11.800 Street level. Footage taken near the towers is rare. Images 0:21:11.840 --> 0:21:15.960 captured inside the towers are extremely rare. I looked at everything. 0:21:16.280 --> 0:21:19.080 I crawled into deep corners of the Internet and poured 0:21:19.080 --> 0:21:22.159 through out of print books to find any footage of 0:21:22.160 --> 0:21:25.200 snay Haw would more or less be to solve this case. 0:21:25.600 --> 0:21:29.640 It would prove she was exposed to a specific peril eleven. 0:21:30.119 --> 0:21:33.000 I sifted through so many images looking for the woman 0:21:33.040 --> 0:21:36.040 in the brown dress. I got motion sick, and maybe 0:21:36.160 --> 0:21:38.920 staring at thousands of nine eleven photos while locked away 0:21:38.960 --> 0:21:41.760 in an apartment during a pandemic death winter is not, 0:21:41.920 --> 0:21:45.200 shall we say, great for one's mental health. Anyway, I 0:21:45.240 --> 0:21:49.080 looked and looked, first through public images and videos, and 0:21:49.119 --> 0:21:52.600 then I reached out to twenty photographers, amateur and professional, 0:21:52.760 --> 0:21:54.640 to see if they would grant me access to their 0:21:54.640 --> 0:21:59.840 full archives. Six responded, Two were very helpful, Todd maizel Of, 0:22:00.000 --> 0:22:03.679 former photographer for the New York Daily News, and Massy Swalinski, 0:22:03.840 --> 0:22:07.280 an amateur photographer. Massiege has never been interviewed by an 0:22:07.280 --> 0:22:10.840 American journalist until now. In two thousand one, he lived 0:22:10.840 --> 0:22:14.119 in New Jersey. Every day he took a ferry to Manhattan, 0:22:14.280 --> 0:22:17.080 where he worked as an I T specialist for Goldman Sachs. 0:22:17.560 --> 0:22:19.639 When he got off the ferry, he walked by the 0:22:19.680 --> 0:22:22.520 Twin Towers on his way to work on nine eleven. 0:22:22.760 --> 0:22:26.040 He carried an early model digital camera, a Cannon power 0:22:26.080 --> 0:22:29.120 Shot Pro ninety I s to be exact two point 0:22:29.160 --> 0:22:32.560 six megapixels. It was a pretty day and he figured, pay, 0:22:32.640 --> 0:22:37.320 I'll snap some photos. At am, Messiege was standing directly 0:22:37.359 --> 0:22:39.600 across the street from the Trade Center when he heard 0:22:39.640 --> 0:22:42.359 a loud boom. I had no idea, where is this 0:22:42.480 --> 0:22:45.600 coming from? What is happening? Google was so saddened. And 0:22:45.760 --> 0:22:51.000 then I started to see at West Side Highway, which 0:22:51.520 --> 0:22:57.399 actually was, to my surprise, almost empty. I don't know 0:22:57.440 --> 0:23:02.080 how it happened, but there was no traffic anymore except 0:23:02.160 --> 0:23:07.960 one car. It was passenger car who had tires punctured. 0:23:08.760 --> 0:23:16.879 So driver drove very slowly with that noise of flat tires, 0:23:16.920 --> 0:23:22.560 but was trying evidently to to drive away from that area. 0:23:23.240 --> 0:23:28.520 So the car must have been hit by debris from 0:23:28.520 --> 0:23:32.720 the collision. From that accident, a debris was everywhere. Was 0:23:32.840 --> 0:23:35.840 a lot was covering west side highway and then all 0:23:35.960 --> 0:23:42.520 the streets around. My feeling was, well, what's the tragic 0:23:42.720 --> 0:23:48.399 accident happened? Probably a small a plane hit the tower 0:23:49.440 --> 0:23:52.800 by an accident. I've never thought at that point that 0:23:52.880 --> 0:23:58.640 it is a thirdist attack. So I noticed a fire 0:24:00.280 --> 0:24:04.639 from the north tower, and I was on the south side, 0:24:05.760 --> 0:24:13.040 so I went closer to the south tower and from 0:24:13.160 --> 0:24:19.880 different angles I started to take pictures of the towers 0:24:19.960 --> 0:24:26.800 and the smoke from the north tower. And my next 0:24:28.000 --> 0:24:31.600 that was to take pictures on the ground. Were not 0:24:31.800 --> 0:24:35.840 many people, very few people around. I noticed one of 0:24:35.880 --> 0:24:40.400 the cars on fire somehow he is that the attire 0:24:41.040 --> 0:24:44.040 was burning a lot of the brier around. I was 0:24:44.080 --> 0:24:48.240 really running very quickly around. We fill in the air. 0:24:48.440 --> 0:24:54.240 Something unusual happening for the moment. I went even to 0:24:54.560 --> 0:24:58.000 this the plaza that used to be between two towers. 0:24:58.760 --> 0:25:06.600 This is the area were spear sculpture was back then, 0:25:07.720 --> 0:25:12.480 and it was also absolutely empty from the sky was 0:25:12.640 --> 0:25:18.359 they were falling the hundreds of different documents paper. It 0:25:18.560 --> 0:25:23.320 was like confetti on Broadway on the kindon of Hero. 0:25:23.520 --> 0:25:28.560 So just was falling from the sky from that damaged tower. 0:25:29.720 --> 0:25:34.560 I didn't see any people escaping from the building. It 0:25:34.720 --> 0:25:39.480